SAS Ireland SAIL

[A319]

... AND the no. of SAIL admin staff is 40+ acc. SAS management. None of which would be needed if the 9 a/c would be operated by SAS themselves. So they are an financial extra burden that need to be outweighed by lower crew costs.

I’m no financial expert but I fail to see how the “saved” crew cost of crews for just 9 a/c will outweigh the 40+ admin cost.

[matt283]

Let me get this right, so from what you wrote above A319 there is no cost savings for SAS to be running the whole SAIL operation.

It all makes perfect sense to me apart of one detail - why SAIL operation is still ongoing and 9 a/c are still Irish reg?

It would actually be a cost saving for SAS to cancel the whole CAE/SAIL deal?

Not to mention the future fine for CAE in Malaga...

[A319]

Yes. SAIL was only set up bust the pilot unions and start the outsourcing of SAS main a/c types. A life long dream of SAS management.

Regarding the cost saving, you tell me how SAIL saves money for SAS? A/c, fuel, handling, maintenance are still paid by SAS. The only variable parts are the admin and FD/CC cost. Is 40+ admin making this cheaper?

SAS crews are more flexible than year long 5/4 but leave that out of the equation.

AGP fines I never heard of.

[matt283]

CAE in Malaga have been controlled by labour inspection and fined for employing cabin crew without permit to act as a work agency from what I understood. Correct me if I am wrong ;)

Now the Spanish cabin crew union claims that there have been no solution found with CAE and started now a legal case in court against illegal employment of 60 cabin crew by CAE in Malaga base.

[C195]

Now SAS have announced that they will be laying off about 5000 employees in Scandinavia, I doubt the unions will accept SAIL restarts.

[matt283]

CAE Crewing Services already sent to their crew employed in AGP communication on intention to initiate a collective dismissal process due to production and organizational matters.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/scandinavian-airline-s-irish-subsidiary-to-lay-off-80-crew-in-spain-1.4239988?mode=amp

[Ramrise]

FWIW, the platform strategy (SAS Main, SAIL and external suppliers) remains the chosen path forward.

With several hundred redundancies in the pipeline I doubt the unions have much of a negotiating position from which to start. SAIL isn't loved by the legacy employees, but they are part of the company and in no way deserve to be harassed or looked down upon.

[fightthepower]

Nobody looks down on them. We are all aware that they are skilled colleagues in this industry trying to make a living.

Look, being replaced by cheaper/more efficient labour is regrettable but inevitable in a free market in the long run. Everybody gets that, ”legacy employees” or otherwise. Hence the overall continuous downward pressure on t&c in the last two decades.

What ”legacy employees” are having a problem with in this particular case is being replaced by more expensive labour, as is the case with SAIL.

There simply is no justification for it, other than dividing the employees into as many little groups as possible with the sole purpose of diminishing their negotiating leverage.

[matt283]

Malaga base closed down and redundancy deal signed by the unions. AGP slots to be operated by SAS mainland.

[A321drvr]

Sorry to hear that. Any news on the LHR staff?

[Klimax]

I´m always sorry for anyone to loose a job. However, mainline SAS taking over is no surprise. The SAIL project is about to end - as it should - and as planned. The SAIL setup was only a way to make the mainline SAS pilot unions feel pressured. Times have changed now. SAS no longer needs the SAIL operation and so it will be flushed out and dumped. Sorry if you guys didn´t realise this early on and that you were not made aware, but in the real world, real world stuff happens - often quite obvious. Sorry for those who will pull the short straw at SAIL.

[kendrick47247]

Just skimmed your posting history over the past year; besides the large number of falsehoods, there’s very little that’s positive or even constructive
(no dog in this fight by the way)

[Klimax]

I admire your language skills. Perhaps you should have skimmed your milk as well then. The big boy in the school yard policing around much, are we? Sad. Laughable at best.

[kendrick47247]

Thanks very much; imagine a word having more than one meaning...

In a large number of your comments on threads (including this one) you forecast the downfall of this and the collapse of that, but very little of it seems to have come true.

Having friends who work for SAIL, I’d be interested to know what you base your prophecy on this time.

This is a hard enough time for all pilots as it is, I don’t think someone telling people they’re to be flushed out and dumped is particularly helpful.

[Klimax]

Firstly, you should learn to focus on the topic and not get diverted so easiely.
Secondly, pehaps being a tart less sensitive to words would make life a bit easier for you and people around you.
Thirdly, I didn´t share any ill wishes for the SAIL pilots.

I´d share my predictions with you - when or if I elect to do so. Meanwhile, you can wait and see. yeah.

[kendrick47247]

Haha, a very Trump like response. I definitely know more than you but I’m going to wait and see if it comes true before I put my name to it :D

If you’re unaware of the tone of your original post then there’s really not much I can say to you on it. Picking others up on their use of English is clearly not a strong suit of yours so, best to be avoided.

Hopefully what Ramrise has commented above, that the SAIL model remains part of the future plan, is correct.

[heavydane]

If SAIL was created ,as SAS management like to claim, to create value and help a pilot shortage, it has to go as it is no longer needed when SAS mainline plans to fire 650 pilots. If it was a union busting project, it definitely has to go. Either way, got to go. Hate the game and not the player, please.

[A319]

3 of the 9 SAIL A320s have just been re-registered and been included in SAS mainline.

SAS management struggles to defend to the public that taxpayers rescue money is being used to secure foreign jobs whilst laying off Scandinavian employees.

SAIL crews are again night stopping in ARN flying SK flights out of base.

[dcoded]

Does anyone know about any details of the SAIL contract?
Are you guys still on 5/4 and full salary?

[Frolic]

What about the CPH base where CAE is looking for pilots for? T&Cs?

[semmern]

So, SAS fired nearly 600 pilots, and are now hiring again. Sounds familiar? So far only Wizz, Ryanair and the worst of the worst have done something similar. In addition, to screw the fired pilots over even more than by just firing them and not respecting the five-year right to be rehired that is set down in the CLA, the new companies will fly the A320Neo, and CAE lists a rating and 500h on type as a requirement. For the 200 fired OSL-based FOs that smarts even more than «just» being fired, as they were on the 737, and as such they are even excluded from applying for their own jobs!

[semmern]

Probably right, but what about the Lauda/Buzz/Malta stuff?

Either way, this move puts SAS at the very bottom of the list of bottom-feeders if you ask me.

[Banana Joe]

No Malta Air staff has been fired.

[annakm]

Any truth in the rumor that Norwegian are rehiring ex crew?

[Banana Joe]

Yes they are.

[172_driver]

semmern

+ a handful of 737 pilots in Stockholm!

So the company has negotiated with CAE to drop the 500 hrs requirements for SAS pilots recently transfered to A320! Hooray for all 737-pilots who never transfered in the first place https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/pukey.gif

[aviationvictim]

SAS has truly come to a new low. Honestly makes me embarrassed for all Danes, including myself, that have been applauding the Danish system and it’s fight against the constant battering of T&Cs in our industry. SAIL signs a collective agreement with a different union and can now not be touched. In the meantime SAS has been bailed out by the Danish and Swedish governments for taxpayers money. We just hit rock bottom.

[semmern]

172_driver

And yet, one of the Swedish ex-SAS pilots with A320neo experience applied yesterday, and was told to PFO today..

[172_driver]

Apparently, the last word about that has not been said yet. Though I wonder why they would be interested in ex SK-pilots anyway, issues about re-employment with SK, their history. The last thing they want is a bunch of unified pilots. Must be a lot easier to take some "fresh blood" off the street. Behind the curtains the selection of candidates could well be weighted anyway, hours on type or not.

[Flybywire34]

Think most of the 600 pilots was at the end of the career or closer, it was the same scheme for British, AF, Lufthansa etc..
Do you know if they are looking for pilots who they flew last 6 months?

[intercooler]

You are completely wrong. The 560 pilots who were laid off were at the beginning of their career with hiring dates between 2000 and 2020. In recent years straight from flight school to SAS.

Consider this if you are applying for a job with SAS Connect. You are truly a contender to be the "lowest bidder". You will not be an SAS employee, but work for SAS Connect Crew Services A/S which is a subsidiary that they can close down when it fits (exactly what happened to the pilots in the same setup used by Norwegian when the pandemic hit).

The average age of the remaining pilots ( ca 1000) is 56. SAS is hoping to starve them out by not replacing the retiring pilots.

Still interested in working for SAS Connect? Then also consider that the pilot's union Friday 1 October filed a lawsuit against SAS for breach of the CLA (https://www.gp.se/ekonomi/sas-st%C3%A4ms-p%C3%A5-miljonbelopp-av-pilotfack-1.56186242)

Technically for the period up until 2019 (before the pandemic) and for only 2 million EUR in compensation but the big reward is to confirm the intention of the limit of wet-lease-in percentage which SAS is trying to circumvent by fiddling with numbers for route profitability and having SAS Connect fly under a different callsign while still being marketed as an SAS flight. If SAS loses the lawsuit your employment at SAS Connect will also be short lived because the wet-lease-in limit has already been passed as of today.

[Easyheat]

Luftfart.nu and google translate

SAS will hire the first pilots and cabin crew to a Danish SAS Connect base in November

SAS has started recruiting for its new Danish platform, SAS Connect, and expects to use staff for 11 aircraft in the coming year.

Interested pilots and cabin crew can now apply for Danish employment at SAS 'platform SAS Connect. SAS expects the first appointments to the new Danish Connect base to come in November and December.

“We will hire as we receive new deliveries from Airbus. We expect a total of 11 aircraft by October 2022. In light of the pandemic and the highly competitive market that we are looking into after the corona, there is a need for us to accelerate the development of our upcoming business model so that we create a strong SAS and secures both current and future jobs in Scandinavia, ”says Eivind Bjurstrøm, VP Operations at SAS.

SAS Connect will operate with the Airbus A320, and the first flights from the Danish Connect base will begin in the first half of February next year.

Connect gets a Danish base and employment in a wholly owned SAS company

SAS Connect is the new name for SAS SAIL, which for a number of years has operated from bases in London and Spain, which made Danish agreements impossible. In May, a Danish agreement for pilots and cabin crew at the upcoming Danish Connect base was negotiated in place between SAS and the Aviation Industry Staff Union.

“SAS is satisfied with having signed an agreement with FPU, which ensures good Scandinavian working conditions for SAS Connect's base in Denmark. With SAS Connect, SAS can better adapt to the conditions in the aviation market of the future and thereby protect Scandinavian jobs and Scandinavian infrastructure, ”says Eivind Bjurstrøm.

Pilots and cabin crew will be employed in a wholly owned SAS company, SAS Connect Crew Services, which is a Danish registered company in the SAS Group.

[semmern]

Fire and rehire. I have no words for how disgusting SAS’ behaviour is. No words.

[Easyheat]

Back in 2015 SAS bought Cimber (an almost empty company), for a small amount of money. Then started to hire 100+ pilots and the same amount of Cabin Crews to fly regional flights. And when the company was up and running 100% in late 2016, SAS announced in start 2017 that they wanted to sell Cimber, to Cityjet. Just to get rid of employers responsibility. I wonder if this the plan with Connect? And end state is to have only LH pilots and CC on a SAS-contract, with the rest outsourced?

[semmern]

Has anyone seen terms and conditions for Connect or Link? PM me if you have. As I am not qualified to apply for my former job, I would love to see what is replacing me.

[MF523]

I applied mid October but no respons yet. Anyone with some info if they have started inviting people?

[ElChasper]

I applied mid October but no respons yet. Anyone with some info if they have started inviting people?
Unless you're ex SAS crew, it's probably very unlikely you'll be called any time soon.

[MF523]

I’ve heard that SAS actually don’t want to rehire their previous employees due to scandinavian business transfer laws.

Maybe someone here can confirm this. Is SAS doing this move with connect to break the current pilot unions?

[semmern]

I’ve heard that SAS actually don’t want to rehire their previous employees due to scandinavian business transfer laws.

Maybe someone here can confirm this. Is SAS doing this move with connect to break the current pilot unions?

Yes. So far, as far as I know, no former crew have been invited to an assessment, me included. Pure union busting.

[ElChasper]

Yes. So far, as far as I know, no former crew have been invited to an assessment, me included. Pure union busting.

That's interesting. I have heard of three courses starting in January all with ex-SAS crew. It is only for the CPH base, so I'm guessing they are taking CPH based pilots first?

[MF523]

Yes. So far, as far as I know, no former crew have been invited to an assessment, me included. Pure union busting.

Sorry to hear, didn't expect such a reputable airline as SAS to bust their unions. Heard from a former colleague that even Norwegian is calling back crew that was "laid off" when they bankrupted their pilot staffing companies in order and to the same T&C.

That's interesting. I have heard of three courses starting in January all with ex-SAS crew. It is only for the CPH base, so I'm guessing they are taking CPH based pilots first?

Interesting. Seems like there is much rumors around this connect and link project SAS is doing. Do you know if anyone else have a start date or have been through the selection process?

[aviationvictim]

Of course it’s to undermine the SAS pilots union.

This manoeuvre makes Ryanair look like the good guys ffs!
An absolute embarrassment to Scandinavia and the Scandinavian way to employ people.

But every man for himself seems to be the creed on this forum. Enjoy.

[ElChasper]

Interesting. Seems like there is much rumors around this connect and link project SAS is doing. Do you know if anyone else have a start date or have been through the selection process?

To be honest I don't know too much about the process. I am also ex-SAS crew, but I have accepted a flying job at a different company, so my knowledge about SAS is limited to what my previous colleagues are telling me. I think quite a few people have gone through the screening process and are waiting for a start date. With regards to SAS Link, there is apparently a course in January with only former Great Dane pilots.

I'm not really sure what to think of it all.

[Klimax]

Of course it’s to undermine the SAS pilots union.

This manoeuvre makes Ryanair look like the good guys ffs!
An absolute embarrassment to Scandinavia and the Scandinavian way to employ people.

But every man for himself seems to be the creed on this forum. Enjoy.

Not much has changed with SK since my good old days, back in mid 2000s. Untrustworthy management and second to none bad leadership. As of the most recent years this once proud (albeit a long time ago!) company started this disgusting union busting. It surely is a disgrace for the Scandinavian people and I´d be embarrassed working for any of their companies.

[kendrick47247]

Yes. So far, as far as I know, no former crew have been invited to an assessment, me included. Pure union busting.

Probably best not to go posting false statements. Plenty of ex-SAS (FD and training dept) hired and starting in the coming weeks

[Klimax]

Probably best not to go posting false statements. Plenty of ex-SAS (FD and training dept) hired and starting in the coming weeks

Why? the SAS management is lying all the time - and always have been! No reason to expect anything from the ones a lower rank. Nothing new.

[kendrick47247]

Why? the SAS management is lying all the time - and always have been! No reason to expect anything from the ones a lower rank. Nothing new.

You’re right, this is a rumour network after all… SAS Connect to start flying the 321LR and 350 later in the year

[Klimax]

You’re right, this is a rumour network after all… SAS Connect to start flying the 321LR and 350 later in the year

Yes, with Cabin Crew in the Flight Deck - manipulating the controls! Pilots finally outsmarted beyond the imaginable. Long live SAIL and SAS Connect and the bright future ahead - of cheap @ss contractors fighting for survival. OMFG, what a bunch of circus clowns we all really are. The last good SAS (the real airline!) jobs were back in the late 90s. What´s left now is just a ****ty airline with even worse bottom feeders (read: SAIL, SAS Connect). Happy winter flying.

[shared reality]

Let's not get too carried away, the "real" SAS pilots are still fighting and the unions have taken the circus management to court, as well as told everyone that it might be a war come April 1, when our current contract expires. This will be our last stand, as we (the real SAS) is still big enough by then to have an impact. Most of my colleagues are ready to fight to the end, and if all goes down, at least our backs will be straight, and flying jobs will be available somewhere else...
Winter is here....

[Klimax]

Let's not get too carried away, the "real" SAS pilots are still fighting and the unions have taken the circus management to court, as well as told everyone that it might be a war come April 1, when our current contract expires. This will be our last stand, as we (the real SAS) is still big enough by then to have an impact. Most of my colleagues are ready to fight to the end, and if all goes down, at least our backs will be straight, and flying jobs will be available somewhere else...
Winter is here....

Good to hear! The race to the bottom has to stop somewhere! April the 1st day is a great day to see who the real fools are!

[aviationvictim]

Let's not get too carried away, the "real" SAS pilots are still fighting and the unions have taken the circus management to court, as well as told everyone that it might be a war come April 1, when our current contract expires. This will be our last stand, as we (the real SAS) is still big enough by then to have an impact. Most of my colleagues are ready to fight to the end, and if all goes down, at least our backs will be straight, and flying jobs will be available somewhere else...
Winter is here....

I wish you the best of luck with the fight. Important for the real SAS pilots and all other European pilots that this sort of thing is stopped.

[MrBA]

The only ex-SAS pilots that have been welcomed to SAS Connect are the once who were members of FPU union. FPU members were less than 0,5% of SAS pilots and they were the once who signed a CBA (for SAS Connect) with SAS management behind the backs of everyone else. The rest of the pilots at SAS were part of SPG (SAS Pilot Group) and they are not called to SAS Connect although 560 of them are unemplyed. Sad story.

[Perser_dk]

The only ex-SAS pilots that have been welcomed to SAS Connect are the once who were members of FPU union. FPU members were less than 0,5% of SAS pilots and they were the once who signed a CBA (for SAS Connect) with SAS management behind the backs of everyone else. The rest of the pilots at SAS were part of SPG (SAS Pilot Group) and they are not called to SAS Connect although 560 of them are unemplyed. Sad story.This is not correct anymore. Actually SK(old SAS) offered reemployment to 50 pilots(ARN & OSL base). Among them many old CPH employees, but almost all of them decided to turn down SK and go to SAS Connect instead. I don't know the reason for this, anyone with more info? Have they been promised quick upgrades or is it the CPH base that’s the deal breaker?

Anyway there are a lot of old SK employees on their way to connect now, both FPU members and former SPG members..

[MF523]

Some rumors around that the first course has been cancelled until further notice. Anyone that can confirm this? Have assessment been paused aswell?

[Itsjustajob]

Latest update is that 108 pilots of the 560 laid off pilots have been called back to SAS SK. This will barely cover pensions.
With regards to SAS Connect, they are hiring. Still most of the former employees of SAS SK are turned down. It seems a good idea to be a member of FPU, if you want the job.
It is worth mentioning that there is an IFALPA recruitment ban on SAS Connect and Link, so one should think twice before accepting a job there right now.
As for former SK employees turning down the offer for reemployment to go to Connect instead, that is not something I have heard. Some CPH based pilots turn down the offer because they are offered ARN/OSL base and would rather wait for CPH base.

[Needletail]

Latest update is that 108 pilots of the 560 laid off pilots have been called back to SAS SK. This will barely cover pensions.
With regards to SAS Connect, they are hiring. Still most of the former employees of SAS SK are turned down. It seems a good idea to be a member of FPU, if you want the job.
It is worth mentioning that there is an IFALPA recruitment ban on SAS Connect and Link, so one should think twice before accepting a job there right now.
As for former SK employees turning down the offer for reemployment to go to Connect instead, that is not something I have heard. Some CPH based pilots turn down the offer because they are offered ARN/OSL base and would rather wait for CPH base.

Where do you see that there is an IFALPA recruitment ban out?
On IFALPA's website, there's a "cancelled request" for assistance from NFU back in October.

[MF523]

What does the IFALPA recruitment ban mean in specific terms?

[intercooler]

Where do you see that there is an IFALPA recruitment ban out?
On IFALPA's website, there's a "cancelled request" for assistance from NFU back in October.

Apparently the NF request has been cancelled 13 Oct but there is another from the Swedish union SPF 25 Oct:
https://www.ifalpa.org/mutual-assistance-requests/

[belfigor]

Hi Everybody, I apllied to both SAS Connect and SAS Link in November 2021, no answer so far. Please, any news about their screening and hiring? Thank you

[MF523]

Same here, it's been total radio silence.

Have the union situation been solved, or is still a strike within "main" SAS likely in April?

[kendrick47247]

Same here, it's been total radio silence.

Have the union situation been solved, or is still a strike within "main" SAS likely in April?

Does a SAS main strike not just play into the hands of Connect? They end up getting more work?

[172_driver]

Does a SAS main strike not just play into the hands of Connect? They end up getting more work?

Connect is not big enough to cover the loss of production. Still main pilots has the power to influence their own future as well as that of working conditions in the whole industry.

[kendrick47247]

Connect is not big enough to cover the loss of production. Still main pilots has the power to influence their own future as well as that of working conditions in the whole industry.

How big are they now? Two bases, but how many aircraft? And they get all new Airbus deliveries?

[MD80rookie]

I am ex SAS and this is my view:

There is no hope for a solution to the conflict between management and pilot unions. The management simply don't want unions, they want to control everything. The unions presented an offer with a total saving of about 30% in salaries and increased production, but management said no. The idea, hatched and nourished by a few individiuals in the top (not the CEO actually), is to have production platforms that produce traffic with various aircrafts in different sizes depending on demand. This means of course that every second or third year the bidding war will start over again and every supplier risks losing the contract with SAS, therefore the cost hunt will never stop. SAS Ireland, SAS Estonia, SAS Lithuania, SAS Moldovia, the possibilities are endless. Of course, the customer experience is promised to be identical.... This concept is called "enhanced operating model". The only thing that is not enhanced in this concept is management and head office where business is more or less unchanged. Many administrative colleagues have been laid off, placed in other departments but the ones still working received a yearly pay increase. SAS Ireland and SAS Link will "buy" services from SAS infrastructure, crew planning / ops / support functions.

SAS seems to be in limbo right now. They have called back about 100 pilots that were laid off in 2020, still there are 450 pilots left. As traffic demand picks up, restrictions in europé are lifted, the hiring would need to accelerate as well. From what I know, only a very limited number of pilots have been hired for the SAS Ireland base in Copenhagen.

Yes, the plan is to assign all future Neo deliveries to SAS Ireland.

Yes, it will be a conflict between SAS management and the unions this spring. SAS still has some 800-900 pilots employed, and the majority of traffic in terms of passenger numbers is flown by SAS Scandinavia (funny, what else would SAS be if not Scandinavia?) and all long haul flights are operated by SAS.

[MD80rookie]

Hi Everybody, I apllied to both SAS Connect and SAS Link in November 2021, no answer so far. Please, any news about their screening and hiring? Thank you

Are you rated in both A320 and E190?

[MF523]

I am ex SAS and this is my view:

There is no hope for a solution to the conflict between management and pilot unions. The management simply don't want unions, they want to control everything. The unions presented an offer with a total saving of about 30% in salaries and increased production, but management said no. The idea, hatched and nourished by a few individiuals in the top (not the CEO actually), is to have production platforms that produce traffic with various aircrafts in different sizes depending on demand. This means of course that every second or third year the bidding war will start over again and every supplier risks losing the contract with SAS, therefore the cost hunt will never stop. SAS Ireland, SAS Estonia, SAS Lithuania, SAS Moldovia, the possibilities are endless. Of course, the customer experience is promised to be identical.... This concept is called "enhanced operating model". The only thing that is not enhanced in this concept is management and head office where business is more or less unchanged. Many administrative colleagues have been laid off, placed in other departments but the ones still working received a yearly pay increase. SAS Ireland and SAS Link will "buy" services from SAS infrastructure, crew planning / ops / support functions.

SAS seems to be in limbo right now. They have called back about 100 pilots that were laid off in 2020, still there are 450 pilots left. As traffic demand picks up, restrictions in europé are lifted, the hiring would need to accelerate as well. From what I know, only a very limited number of pilots have been hired for the SAS Ireland base in Copenhagen.

Yes, the plan is to assign all future Neo deliveries to SAS Ireland.

Yes, it will be a conflict between SAS management and the unions this spring. SAS still has some 800-900 pilots employed, and the majority of traffic in terms of passenger numbers is flown by SAS Scandinavia (funny, what else would SAS be if not Scandinavia?) and all long haul flights are operated by SAS.

Thanks for an insightful answer.
What does the unions want to avoid conflict? That all laid off pilots in "main" SAS get priority into SAS connect and SAS link before any external recruitment or that SAS connect and SAS link gets scrapped as a whole?

[172_driver]

What does the unions want to avoid conflict? That all laid off pilots in "main" SAS get priority into SAS connect and SAS link before any external recruitment or that SAS connect and SAS link gets scrapped as a whole?

Getting priority into Connect/Link would be tiny act of fairness but still a huge deterioration in working conditions for the crew. No, the union want the project to be scrapped and previous agreements honored where a limited part of the production may be done outside of SK. The agreement has been violated for years but not to extent we see today with Connect/Link.

[UncleBe]

Is Scandinavian language, Norwegian, Swedish or Danish required for SAS Connect FO position? Like mainline SK does?
All SAS flight I have been on, pilot could speak fluent Scandinavian language,,,

[saab340pilot87]

As the new SPG (SAS Pilot Group) agreement is signed, these previous requirements might be valid again. But as far as I've heard, this information is not available.

[A319]

You’d also be behind the 300+ former pilots SAS is legally required to rehire before you. Also all pilots in the SAS group is now on a Master Sen. List based on DOH within the SAS Group, including the Connect DEP’s which based on this will be at the very bottom behind the yet to be rehired pilots.

If SAS decides to bury Connect in the near future, since there’s no longer any savings to be made, all pilots will be merged by seniority into SAS including the requirements there. This includes a (any) scandi language (for now)…

[kendrick47247]

You’d also be behind the 300+ former pilots SAS is legally required to rehire before you. Also all pilots in the SAS group is now on a Master Sen. List based on DOH within the SAS Group, including the Connect DEP’s which based on this will be at the very bottom behind the yet to be rehired pilots

Unless you were hired into the LHR base, in which case, you’re not subject to the same rule.

[A319]

Unless you were hired into the LHR base, in which case, you’re not subject to the same rule.

100% true, I forgot the LHR base.

I believe they’re on CAE contracts? In which case, if and when SAS decides to close Connect, they’ll work their notice period and be laid off. Hopefully by then the pilot market will have picked up in the UK. Not sure if you’re from the UK that commuting to a top tax scandi land is a great option.

[MD80rookie]

I would definitely think two or three times if I were about to join SAS Ireland. Any upgrade for co-pilots is not going to happen as there are a few hundred SAS pilots that are more senior on the new MSL. Likely SAS Ireland will be scrapped in the next two years.

[saab340pilot87]

And, the size of SAS Ireland in LHR is regulated from the size of SAS Link in the new agreement. It is limited to 100 FTE, and if SAS Link grows, the size of SAIL will shrink.
The SAIL traffic is now considered as wet lease traffic, which is very strictly agreed between SPG and SAS from 1st of August.

I would think four times before joining them as well. Better apply for Easy or BA.

[Perser_dk]

I have a friend in the UK looking for a A320 job, is it any recruitment planned for the LHR base? If it is 100 FTE I guess at least a few will leave now and then?

[pilotgeo]

Could anyone share some recent developments with SAS Connect especially in CPH base?

[172_driver]

Could anyone share some recent developments with SAS Connect especially in CPH base?

What exactly are you looking for? It's a joint seniority list with the rest of SAS now. You start as FO on the A320. Each year there is a bidding window open where you can bid for other positions within the company, captain, mixed fleet short/longhaul, base change, switch to SK or Link. All seniority based. The future of having two AOCs (SK and Connect) operating the same type from the same bases is the million $ question.

[FlightDetent]

Ain't that the first good news in 3 years?

[pilotgeo]

What exactly are you looking for? It's a joint seniority list with the rest of SAS now. You start as FO on the A320. Each year there is a bidding window open where you can bid for other positions within the company, captain, mixed fleet short/longhaul, base change, switch to SK or Link. All seniority based. The future of having two AOCs (SK and Connect) operating the same type from the same bases is the million $ question.

That's a start, thanks!

Even though seniority lists are joined with mainline - in reality, did anyone ever move from Connect to SAS? And how come they both accept applications now? Also, is mainline contract that much better than Connect or is it more about benefits?

What are Connect benefits and how are their rosters like?

I'll think of more questions for sure :D

[SimoFly]

Can anyone shed some light on the current terms and conditions at the LHR base?
salary for FO, roster, upgrade opportunities, any important info ?

Thanks in advance

[172_driver]

Ain't that the first good news in 3 years?

Exactly

​​​​​​​Even though seniority lists are joined with mainline - in reality, did anyone ever move from Connect to SAS? And how come they both accept applications now? Also, is mainline contract that much better than Connect or is it more about benefits?

It's the same CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement) at SK and Connect. None has moved from Connect to SK purely because the result of the very first bidding window involving all three airlines has not been published yet. Seniroity is based on date of hire and all Connect crew are less senior than those in SK. Connect expanded while people at SK were laid off in the wake of Covid. Captains at Connect will stay Captains. Meanwhile there are FOs in SK with 20+ years in the RHS. Understandably it's a touchy subject.

As to why both accept applications the real question is; why are there even two airlines?

[172_driver]

What are Connect benefits and how are their rosters like?

I don't have the details at the top of my head. In theory; You'll start with a variable roster published the 16th each month. 11-12 days of per month. Part time should be available in accordance with the laws of your home base state. Guaranteed 3 weeks summer holiday together. Christmas or New Year off. Every third year both off. It's 24 step(?) pay scale and it varies slightly between SE, NO, DK. You move up the pay scale once a year. Depending on experience level (and rating) I believe you start between 37000 and 40000 SEK/NOK/DKK per month. Per diem on top of that and some other small bonuses. An OK company pension. Though you may be assigned up to 15 days forced unpaid leave per year which is a real pain!

Something like that...

NOTE: I think London is completely different...

[pilotgeo]

I don't have the details at the top of my head. In theory; You'll start with a variable roster published the 16th each month. 11-12 days of per month. Part time should be available in accordance with the laws of your home base state. Guaranteed 3 weeks summer holiday together. Christmas or New Year off. Every third year both off. It's 24 step(?) pay scale and it varies slightly between SE, NO, DK. You move up the pay scale once a year. Depending on experience level (and rating) I believe you start between 37000 and 40000 SEK/NOK/DKK per month. Per diem on top of that and some other small bonuses. An OK company pension. Though you may be assigned up to 15 days forced unpaid leave per year which is a real pain!

Something like that...

NOTE: I think London is completely different...

Thank you very much for these insights!

The existance of two different airlines may have something to do with where they are registered and legally the chapter 11 process of SAS shouldn't affect Connect as they are two separate AOCs?

Maybe Connect is the future AOC of SAS with no connection to Scandinavia other than its name?

Or is this a ridicoulous thought?

[172_driver]

Thank you very much for these insights!

The existance of two different airlines may have something to do with where they are registered and legally the chapter 11 process of SAS shouldn't affect Connect as they are two separate AOCs?

Maybe Connect is the future AOC of SAS with no connection to Scandinavia other than its name?

Or is this a ridicoulous thought?

The whole SAIL/Connect saga is the doing of an old, now gone, Danish COO. And a spiteful Swedish CEO. Fortunately the union was strong enough to put an end to the madness, protect the employees and save our jobs.

Call it SK or Connect, what's ridicuolous is having an Irish Aviation Authority supervise a Scandinavian airline. Run by CAE. The proud legacy of "Scandinavia" is soon gone. Believe it or not, some charter companies demand that their flights are operated by SAS and not some ACMI with pay2fly pilots.

Regards from an SK pilot who's not very positive about what's been going in the last few years 😉