Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads)

[Mike Flynn]

Just been looking back through all the well documented UK to Australia solo flights since Bert Hinkler did the first one in 1928.

It appears every one has been well funded and the pilots have been well connected.

So my question is has anyone done it without major sponsors,funding and fame?

The only one can find is paraplegic Dave Sykes and he does not even warrant a wiki entry!

[Baikonour]

I didn't think Bert was particularly well connected or well-to-do at the time...? In fact, Bert's life story (polygamy notwithstanding) seems to me to have been one of those 'never quite recognised for what he was' stories ;)

Seriously, I think if you are looking "through all the well documented UK to Australia solo flights" then you are likely to only find those that are, errrm, well documented.
Even though there have certainly been several others, they have not been so well documented.

I don't think that means that you can only fly solo to Oz if you are well connected and/or well-to-do, but it probably does mean that those who have chosen to make a big thing out of their flights have been.

Some of those, and David Sykes is prime amongst them :ok:, certainly deserve much more attention than they have received, but they have not received it either because they have not captured the media's eyes or because they have not wanted to capture the media's eyes...

What is your angle? Are you thinking of doing it and wondering whether you will need/how to find funding or connections or are you looking to write up a story about those who deserve more attention?

As an aside, there was also a fair amount of controversy over a recent flight, repeatedly referred to as 'solo' which was nothing of the sort.

B.

[Romeo Tango]

I did it in 1985 in my Robin. On the good side there was a bit more Avgas around in those days. On the other hand lack of GPS made it more interesting.
There was someone a few weeks ahead of me doing it in a Gypsy something or other.

Plenty of people have done it, it's not that difficult, it just takes time and money. Contacts help and make it more fun ... but a clearance agent and more money also do the job.

When I say money I mostly mean fuel and hotels. Though there will be the occasional nasty handling/flight clearance fee.

[Glasgow_Flyer]

One of our club members recently did it the other way - had so much fun doing it, he continued right round :-)

[Mike Flynn]

Still on my too do list although I have managed some nice long trips.

Bert Hinkler was well connected via his work with AV Roe. His record of 15.5 days for the route from the UK to Australia in 1928 is amazing given the poor logistics. Amy Johnson did a pretty good job managing the journey in 19 days in 1930. I doubt any modern pilot could achieve the journey in the same aircraft with just a map,compass and no radio today.

I must say I admire your style Romeo Tango. What happened to the Robin?

[Romeo Tango]

IMHO it was not that bad without radio/GPS before WW2. There was no controlled airspace to stay out of or airways to stay inside and you didn't have to tell anyone where you were. Most destinations UK->Australia are on a coastline/river so easy to find. It did not really matter where you were between departure and destination - it must have been quite relaxing in some ways.

The Robin is in a shed 30 meters from where I sit.

[Mike Flynn]

Any chance you can post a few pics of the more exotic or hard part of the trip Romeo Tango.
Did you fly Chittagong to Chiang Mai direct?

[Mark 1]

Colin Hales' trip in his KR2 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2666119.stm) was certainly at the budget end of the spectrum.
He's since flown to the US and planning to continue in a westerly direction.

[Mike Flynn]

Thanks for the heads up on Colin. What a great guy and adventurer. Amazing that Colin and his partner flew the small aeroplane they built all the way from the UK to Australia to achieve a such a result.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2666119.stm
Pretty amazing reading this BBC story

Two flying enthusiasts from Oxfordshire have arrived home after a record-breaking journey which took them to the other side of the world.
Colin Hales and Nadine Brauns flew all the way to Australia in a home-made plane.

Their tiny two-seater KR2, which has a wingspan of just 6m, is the smallest plane ever to have flown from England .

After fifteen months away, the couple flew into Oxford airport in Kidlington on Thursday morning.
It took around 60 flights altogether to get to Australia, and they stopped off in 21 countries.

While they had many adventures on their trip, Mr Hales said one of the scariest times was flying over the India-Pakistan border just after a spy plane had been shot down in the same area.

"The idea was not to set records, it was just to see how far we could get,'' said Mr Hales, an aeronautical engineer who lives near Oxford.

Next year the couple plan to fly their aircraft to the US for celebrations of the 100th anniversary of powered flight. http://3ukr694671p02fhcme3a1bsaiek.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Hales-and-Itzy.jpg

[Romeo Tango]

My route was Southampton, Dinard, Perpignan, Palermo, Athens, Iraklion, Cairo, Luxor, Jeddah, Riyadh, Bahrain, Muscat, Karachi, Dehli, Patna, Kathmandu, Calcutta, Rangoon, Bangkok, Hat Yai, KL, Seletar, Jakarta, Bali, Kupang, Darwin.
Then round Australia and back nearly the same way.
A quite conservative route - I was not very experienced, I was careful.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1679/25834861944_8312b15c25_z_d.jpg
Darwin Australia

[BatteriesNotIncluded]

Romeo Tango - what a fantastic route. Consider me inspired.

[Romeo Tango]

That was 30 years ago, there are some alternatives that are more sensible today!

[Mike Flynn]

What an amazing adventure Romeo Tango,you really have my admiration.

I see some of the legs are quite long such as Calcutta to Rangoon or Yangon as it is known now. Any chance you can post some more pictures and info. How long did the entire trip take and did you manage to see a lot of the sights? Did your partner fly?

Were ther any weather problems.

The airborne and ground logistics must have taken some planning. Packing your life in to a small space for what must have taken at least six months.

[Romeo Tango]

Things were different in those days .....
I did not know anyone to ask (and no PPrune!) so I did it from first principles. The UK AIS then was quite an extensive setup in some nissen huts at Pinner with a set of civil servants who maintained a library of AIP publications from every country on the planet. I went there and looked up all the entry requirements. Also a nice man gave me a set of photocopied documents which was a How to Fly in Foreign Parts Guide put together from various sources.
Much telexing later I got clearance from every country on my route except India and Burma. Fortunately a friend knew a Maharajah with a pilot's license, one telephone call from him fixed India (he later was very hospitable and looked after us much more generously than I had any right to expect). A telex to the British Air Attache in Burma persuaded them to let me in.

After all that the flying was relatively straightforward. The only bad weather was in southern France (hence the rather roundabout routing above). No internet but there were more traditional met offices, obviously very airline orientated and difficult to actually go to in many places. It was always stressful just having a few TAFs (if that) and no real feeling for the weather on a strange continent.

No GPS so much dead reckoning when out of range of beacons but since I was mostly dealing with international airports there was usually something near the destination.

Needless to say there were plenty of situations that had to be resolved but there were also countless beautiful/amazing/surreal sights and happenings.

My companion, Emma McCune (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_McCune) (qv), was not a pilot but helped with visas etc and one had to share the sights with someone.

Calcutta - Rangoon is only 560 nm. My Robin has about 1000nm to dry tanks. Though there was no avgas at Jeddah and Rangoon so I carried fuel in a separate tank which was then transferred to the main tanks on the ground via siphon and bucket.

Be inspired - do it! These long distance trips are much easier than one might think.

[rans6andrew]

er.... if you want to celebrate 100 years of powered flight you need to go back 13 years! Next year will be 14 years too late.

What did happen 100 years before 2017?

[Mike Flynn]

I never knew where this thread would take me when I started it but I am in tears as I read your post.
( to understand my feelings please read this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_McCune )

So sad what happened to your companion Emma.

To die in a normal road accident after what she and you went through just underlines fate will get us in the end.

Many thanks for the link.

Please post a few more pictures.

[Straighten Up]

RT - lovely to read your posts here. I love the planning aspect and have planned some great routes but unfortunately weather has kept my longest trip at around 1000nm over a few days. I'm inspired by your trip and hope to do something similar one day.

[Romeo Tango]

I have put some photos here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/wdh/albums/72157667022282972

[Straighten Up]

Lovely pictures - presume you were comparing horse power in the last one.....groan!

[Genghis the Engineer]

Eve Jackson (http://www.davidcookaviator.com/david-cook/eve.html)

[indyaachen]

Wow RT, you stopped by my hometown (Patna) on the way. I reckon it must be quieter in those days at and around the airport, but not much has changed since in terms the attitude towards GA, bewilderment and resistance.

[Romeo Tango]

I can say that everyone was friendly and helpful there. There was lots of paperwork and calculation that produced a landing fee equivalent to something less than £1.

[Mike Flynn]

Was there any reason you chose to route Calcutta to Yangon (Rangoon) direct?

Probably around five hours around the coast but you could have stopped at Chittagong?

Yangon has changed a lot. I was there a few weeks ago and still like the city. Some wonderful old dilapidated colonial buildings soon to be restored with the return to semi democracy.

How many days did you allocate at each stop? The sightseeing must have been an important part of the journey?

[Romeo Tango]

I could not go everywhere, I went in as straight a line as reasonably possible (with the odd exception). Chittagong would have been another country, paperwork and clearances.

Stay time varied. Sometimes only a night and straight on it the morning. A week of tourism in a couple of places. We stayed a couple of nights in Rangoon, kind people but almost zero in the way of manufactured goods, no glass in the windows, biros and whisky were hard currency.

The ATC chief did a deal with me - he turned on the VOR in exchange for some spare maps.

[Mike Flynn]

Yangon has changed a lot. New enlarged airport just opened and building work everywhere.

I guess you did a circuit of Australia with Yulara and Alice included.

Interesting to look at your route and compare it to this...http://i.imgur.com/NPQpy7Q.jpg

How difficult is that old kangaroo route today? I understand Maurice Kirk did it in a Piper Cub just sleeping under the aircraft wing?

[Mike Flynn]

In reply to Ghenghis, Eve Jackson certainly achieved so much on her solo microlight journey from the UK to Australia in 1986. No GPS or mobile phones in those days and she did it alone. Dave Cook who designed the Shadow deserves some credit. Very much in the shadow of Amy Johnson if you pardon the pun.
I found this old cutting.

http://www.davidcookaviator.com/david-cook/news-cutting/eve-jackson-28.11.86.gif

[Romeo Tango]

Nice map .... those were the days .....

[Mike Flynn]

If the route can be done with a microlight then a normal fixed wing should present no problems? What are the longest legs?

[Romeo Tango]

The problem is avgas availability. If you have a diesel/turbine then it's easy.

[Mike Flynn]

Was there more avgas availability in the past than now? Was it easier 75 years ago?

What puzzles me is how Amy Johnson and Bert Hinkler managed to fly all that way in under three weeks in basic open aircraft but modern pilots with GPS etc cannot. Has anyone emulated them in the same aircraft without using modern technology?

The London to Sydney air race was a bit of a sham as the winner,Spirit of Kai Tak, was a remanufactured Piper Aerostar where the pilots did little more than sit down and watch the scenary go by as the autopilot did the flying.

Meanwhile the whacky races character Maurice Kirk was lurching from self imposed disaster to disaster and later managed to get his Cub to Japan before a mechanical problem saw him land on a dual carriageway.

[Romeo Tango]

75 years ago AIUI light aircraft engines would run on the same stuff as commercial flights. So, since Amy Johnson etc were flying between existing airfields (mostly) there was fuel.

When I went to Australia in 1985 there were still DC3s around so there was avgas in many places though even then there was none at Jeddah and Rangoon.

The difficult bit with flying outside Europe today with a petrol light aircraft is fuel availability, it makes life much easier if you have a ferry tank and/or a range greater than 1000nm.

Flight clearance agents and ferry pilots often know the latest situation.

Sometimes there is a flying club and/or you need to know someone with some drums in a shed.

[Baikonour]

75 years ago AIUI light aircraft engines would run on the same stuff as commercial flights.

I think it was even easier than that. AAUI, pre-WWII, most engines ran on automotive grade fuel, since (few) engines required higher than 87 octane at the time. Automotive gasoline was (and is - which would help microlights more than heavier metal) available everywhere. Especially for the pioneers, even if 'more modern' engines were available, staying on mogas seems a sensible choice to keep your options open.

I also think that there was a much lower administrative burden. You could fly the routes shown above whilst never straying away from the British Empire. I'd imagine that a call to the local consul would help with much of the paperwork and, especially as a British citizen and even without much corporate support, you would expect to be assisted.

As we all know, aircraft fly the same whether they are over Basra, Bengalore or Bali, but getting to the bottom of and complying with the ANO in those places is a challenge. And those are just 3 examples out of how many?

It would be lovely if there were a more regular London-Sydney 'race' aimed at amateur participants. The 'race organiser' would assist with the administrative burden and planning and fuel could be procured on a bulk basis to enable interim stops to be used, putting more of the focus of the flights back on the flying itself. And doing that without it becoming a corporate circus... (dreams on)

BTW - If there is such a thing - please post a link!

B.

[Romeo Tango]

The admin burden does not have to be that bad. The info on who and what to ask for each country is in Jeppesen and (sometimes) the internet.

The problem comes when the relevant authorities do not answer your request for permission ..... this can be solved (at a cost) by using a flight clearance agent who knows more people to ask and who's palm to grease.

On occasion I have simply gone anyway without permission and sorted it when I got there, one can get unstuck doing that of course.

It was easier in the days of the Empire though .....

[DownWest]

Have a read here England Australia by Tiger Moth (http://www.ivanrendall.me/index.php/articles/156-article-15)


I havn't seen David for a while, but NRF was with the McAully group back in the early 70s. I was briefly a member, while spannering at Shipdham. When NRF came in for her C of A, I found some un-authorised repairs to the spar roots and new spars were outside the budget ( on finding this I was not the most popular member in the group :o) ). She was sold on as a project a couple of times, then David bought her and had her rebuilt. He still flies her out of Scotland and does a few shows.
DW

Little bit more:
David did another flight in a DH86a Dragon Rapide to S. Africa. Bit less successful with a few probs.
He and his delightful wife flew over to us for lunch in around 74. Landed in the field behind our house. My father, who had flown with 32 Sqd in the BoB went up for a quick buzz and showed David a few bits that were not in the normal books, like falling leafs. Not bad after last flying one in 39.
David is a truly nice guy, the article sounds like him.


I was at Shipdham from the start in 70 to the end of 74. We did a lot of fabric stuff, including two 82a s for David before NRF. He was flying Lightnings out of Suffolk at that time.
Must write him a note.

This will make you grin... Back in the 70s, we bought a Dragon Rapide for around £200 quid. It was littering up a field and had not paid it's dues. We looked carefully at the fuel filters and oïl stuff. Ran the engines for a bit, then flew it back to our base. Gave it a quick C of A an then rented it to Peterborough for parachute drops. With the door off and seats out, it would take ten. The Gypsy Sixes didnt like the quick climbs and décents, so I was often over there replacing cylinder heads because the exhaust stud bolts worked out.
The dead stick in our Mooney on the other thread was one of those trips.

[Mike Flynn]

Is it still flying?

[DownWest]

Dunno


I was back in UK and visited Shipdham, they were giving it an overhaul prior to flying out to Israel. IIRR the IDF had bought it for parachute work.


It had figured in a drama while with the British Army, when a squaddie's chute had opened in the door, then caught on the tailplane, towing the poor guy behind. The jump master lashed some static lines together and was trailed back to him, where he cut the lines and they both went down on the JM's chute. Think he got a GM for that. I remembered seeing it in the papers, so when I noticed that a repair had been made to the tailplane, I found a note in the Log Book, that refered to it.
It was built as a Dominie, not a civilian a/c, so had the radio shack behind the pilot.
DW


BTW, thanks for that link to the Scotsman.

[Mike Flynn]

Just trying to defend the real pilots who have flown the route.

So sad there are Walter Mitty reality tv people out there sailing on the back of the true pilots.

How long before we get a reality tv show on the back of Maurice Kirk who did it in a Cub during the London Sydney Air Race.

[NearlyStol]

I'm with Jay on this one. If the guy in the front is NOT a pilot, he deserves a bigger
gong !

[NearlyStol]

Friends in high places ? Throw big money at it and the strings get pulled.
Degrades all the achievements of the early pioneers . The block on comments
could have been instigated by the South Yorkshire Police. It stinks !
I am a fan of Maurice Kirk . Maybe the South Wales Police have been giving lessons !

[Flying Lawyer]

Jay Sata


I agree with you that any suggestion that it was a solo flight is very misleading.

Sadly it appears that money and publicity count much more these days than the sheer spirit of adventure that inspired the sort of trips that have appeared on this thread.


Unfortunately, people with a spirit of adventure are as frequently criticised as admired in our risk averse nanny state world.
They are sometimes criticised on PPRuNe – particularly in this forum.


On this occasion the Honourable Guild Of Air Pilots awarded the Masters Medal for what was in effect a dual flight reality tv programme. She has been awarded the Master's Medal (which will be presented in October) for highlighting women in aviation and encouraging girls/young women to pursue their aspirations even if they seem to be beyond reach. I don't remember the precise words but that is the gist.


The Honourable Guild of Air Pilots are just a lot of high society UK pilots who clap each other on the back and wear gowns at their meetings.
You clearly know nothing about the Honourable Company of Air Pilots. (Formerly the Guild of Air Pilots and Air Navigators. See here: http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/534791-honourable-company-air-pilots.html )
Apart from one aspect (gowns) which is partially correct, what you say is nonsense.
Gowns are worn in only two circumstances. Members wear them if/when they become a Liveryman, and only on that one occasion. Officers of the Company wear the company’s livery (gowns) at formal meetings and on ceremonial occasions only. That is a livery company tradition - and why they become known as ‘livery’ companies.

We have Royal members but the overall membership is not "high society". About two thirds of our members are current or former professional pilots. PPLs (like me) are made very welcome.

We do not "clap each other on the back." We honour aviators from around the world regardless of whether they are members. The overwhelming majority of recipients are not.

If you were to attend or read about our magnificent annual Trophies & Awards banquets held at Guildhall in the City of London you could not fail (unless you are very odd) to be impressed and inspired by the various accounts of professionalism, dedication, skill, courage, determination and service to others exhibited by the recipients.

The exceptional achievements of some recipients during their careers were previously known only to those in their field; others are more well-known.
Other aviators are honoured for their outstanding skill and professionalism (and often breath-taking bravery) on a single occasion.


Just a few examples from many –
(The citations are well worth reading.)

http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/536554-outstanding-courage-expertise-resourcefulness-quick-thinking-professionalism.html
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/524800-jim-lovell-honoured-guild-air-pilots-now-incl-photographs.html
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/524925-operational-honours-awards-list-october-2013-a.html

Recognition of a life of flying | Stuff.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/10339622/Recognition-of-a-life-of-flying)

[Saab Dastard]

To add a little to FL's description of the activities of the Honourable Company of Air Pilots, every year they provide scholarships to assist several young people (irrespective of background) in achieving their goal of becoming professional aviators, through the Air Pilots Flying Scholarship Programme.

Considerably more than back-slapping.

SD

[Genghis the Engineer]

All other arguments aside - surely the British honours system has inner workings that are a closely guarded secret - and rightly so. It seems to me that anybody claiming to know who is likely to be awarded anything - is most likely lying. Anybody actually privy to such knowledge, will be massively more discrete.

Anybody can nominate anybody else for an honour of course - that was a John Major reform I think. But making a nomination creates no certainty of an outcome.

G

[Mike Flynn]

On reflection and reading Flying Lawyer's excellent and balanced post I withdraw my comment on the HGAP.

However the fact remains, in my opinion, that TCT does not warrant the LAA navigation award or the Masters medal. Her facebook page and media interviews suggest some pretty band airmanship with claims of scud running and low level flying. No doubt all part of embroidering the reality tv programme being filmed on both trips. Ice Road Truckers,Outback Truckers etc. However the participants do not get awards.

The Sydney arrival was deceitful to say the least.

Suggesting she is a mentor for aspiring female pilots implies that bending the truth to achieve success is the norm now.

Her claims to be commemorating Lady Mary Heath and Amy Johnson would have been more honourable if she had flown both trips solo in a Tiger Moth.

To look back at the early aviators it was basic flying on a hard seat in an open cockpit. Despite his lack of social panache Maurice Kirk was in my opinion the number one adventurer on the London to Sydney air race.

[Heliport]

Jay Sata

Her facebook page and media interviews suggest some pretty bad airmanship with claims of scud running and low level flying.

Does good airmanship necessarily mean never intentionally breaking any rules? Not in my view.
Do you think the adventurous pilots you mentioned with admiration earlier in the thread never did any scud running and low level flying? :confused:

I share your admiration for them, and also your reservations about TCT, but let's keep things in perspective. A spirit of adventure and keeping strictly to the rules don't always sit easily together.
eg The great Alex Henshaw broke numerous rules during his epic Cape flights, and described doing so in his fascinating book The Flight of the Mew Gull. I don't think any less of him for doing so. Do you?

[Mike Flynn]

I was being sarcastic and suggesting her claims were to add a dimension of danger and fighting the elements.

I doubt TCT ever saw any real bad weather. They dawdled along the route taking three months making their reality tv programme and staying in many five star hotels en route.

The whole saga was well funded by some generous sponsors coupled with slick orchestrated public relations.

The same applied to London to Sydney Air Race.

The winner,Spirit of Kai Tak,was a 'remanufactured' pressurized Piper Aerostar with a crew of four pilots!
However this press release tried to hype the journey.

London to Sydney Air Race 2001 (http://www.aerostaraircraft.com/airrace.html)
"This race was a grueling test of both speed and endurance with a total distance of 12,040 nautical miles and a course that traveled through some of the most remote parts of the world."
"The London to Sydney Race consisted of 16 officially timed legs, averaging 494 nautical miles in length. "

Not exactly a hard task to fly an Aerostar over sixteen 500 nm hops.

By contrast Brian Milton and Eve Jackson really faced the elements in such a tiny aircraft but for me paraplegic Dave Sykes UK to Australia trip takes some beating.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5b/3f/f7/5b3ff732d7dd157c45f16c707ef8637a.jpg

[Wageslave]

Fascinating thread, but what has struck me is how many people consider it worth repeating the mantra of no GPS, no phone or radio when referring to the pioneers in a way suggesting the very thought of that is astonishing, or even that anyone might need something that banal and obvious pointing out at all!
I know we tend to be slaves to technology (phones esp.) but I am surprised - perhaps I shouldn't be - at the reaction to no GPS and radio as though navigation is is a major feat without them. Radios (comms) play no real part in navigation unless totally lost, and are then at best a minor help, (though in the modern international ATC environment all but essential) but has GPS really become so ubiquitous that we have people thinking it is essential to get from a to b and using a map and DR is somehow too difficult to be practical? Or am I reading too much into this?

[Mike Flynn]

To answer your point Wageslave I believe that a map,compass and a radio is all you need to fly the route. Can it be done in a Tiger Moth? For sure as Amy Johnson did it without modern oils etc in 21 days.

There is the challenge for any female aviator.

Did Tracy Curtis Taylor commemorate her trip?

I don't think so I and will come back to that later.

Without actually saying it FL you agree the spirit of Maurice Kirk,who flew a Cub from the UK to Japan and was then let down by his engine not his flying ,is what we are discussing here.

Sadly he will never get the society recognition for his flying achievements he deserves.

A social pariah but wonderful aviator does not qualify for awards in the past or now.

Kirk set off illegally from a farmers field on the north island of New Zealand knowing he could never make Norfolk Island in a Piper Cub if he played by the rules and left a customs designated airfield .

He did it and and went on to reach Japan before the engine not his flying let him down. He achieved a succesful forced landing and did the same some time later when his engine once again resulted in a ditching in the sea en route to South America.

During WW2 he would have been another Douglas Bader. If you google his site the man lets nothing beat him.

It is the spirit of adventure pilots and their airmanship I admire.

Check out the pilots and aircraft who were up front in the last London to Sydney Air Race it was nothing more than a well funded milk run.

A factory restored 700CR Aerostar, "Spirit of Kai Tak," has won the 2001 London to Sydney Air Race. Flown by a crew of four, consisting of chief pilot Mike Miller and pilot crew members James D'Arcy, John D'Arcy, and Mark Graham, the Spirit of Kai Tak finished first and averaged the fastest ground speed in the race with a blistering 279 knots (321 mph). The next fastest finishers were a King Air C90B with an average speed of 253 knots, a Piper Malibu Mirage at 211 knots, and

Expensive well funded flying hardware.
Speed Chart (http://www.aerostaraircraft.com/chart.html)

It would have been more interesting if they all had to fly a small aircarft with map compass and radio along that route.

Dave Sykes managed it in a very basic airframe with a wheel chair. Eve Jackson and Brian Milton did the trip in a microlight so a Tiger Moth would be sheer luxury in comparison?

As for the question am I having a go a Tracy Curtis Taylor?

We all know her well oiled Artemis funded publicity machine and sponsors conveyed the impression it was a modern day Amy doing the route again. No mention the Stearman is a giant compared to the De Havilland or indeed that the aircraft owner , aircraft rebuilder and experienced flying instructor would be sitting up front for the entire trip.

Has she got questions to answer?

For sure.


“But she never actually said she was solo.”

So the response is:

· Lying by omission?
· It’s just by chance that ALL the press have reported it as solo?
· It’s just by chance that her sponsors’ publications have reported it as solo?
· Why has she never made a correction to any publication?
· Why has she never posted on any of the multiple forum threads to defend the accusations of duplicity made against her?

Is this is raising the profile of women in aviation where a man,who is easily recognised as Ewald Grinstch,can be seen trying to hide from the international press in Sydney?

Surely he deserved credit for his help on the flight and work on the aircraft?

She has a lot of questions to answer.

I hope on the evening she is given the Masters Medal she is honest enough to tell the truth.

It was a duel flight but the press were misled. Sadly she has never attempted to explain that.

Never identified the mystery man hiding in the front of the Stearman as she wallows in the media applause in this picture.

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/619B/production/_87578942_030831214-1.jpg
On a final note...Tracy Curtis Taylor has a well edited Wiki page on the strength of her South Africa and UK to Sydney flights which are suggested as solo but clearly not.

Maurice Kirk has no wiki page despite his flying adventures and imprisonment for over three years in the UK without ever been found guilty of any crime deserving a custodial sentence.

If I had to appear before the HCAP on the evening she gets her token award I would be making the point there are others more worthy out there.

[Heliport]

I hope on the evening she is given the Masters Medal she is honest enough to tell the truth.

The people presented with awards do not make speeches. They say 'thank you' and move on, allowing the many others to be presented with theirs.
The only exceptions I can remember are Neil Armstrong and Jim Lovell who were asked to speak - much to the delight of all of us present.

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/249880-last-night-i-met-neil-armstrong-now-incl-pictures.html

http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/524800-jim-lovell-honoured-guild-air-pilots-now-incl-photographs.html

[piperboy84]

I don't think you can question the "solo" aspects of her achievements if she brought along someone for the ride who took pics and documented the flight for PR purposes. Doing a UK to Oz flight in a Stearman is a helluva achievement. I've done 2000 mile one way flights in a slow plane over a few days and you get absolutely knackered physically and mentally. So TCT doing a 13000 mile journey takes tremendous effort and stamina not to mention piloting skills that merits recognition.

Even the space flights completed by the Challenger had crew members onboard whose primary function was to feed the monkeys, their presence didn't negate or diminish the skippers achievements.

[Mike Flynn]

Thanks for those links and without doubt a credit to the awards committe.

I also mention Maurice Kirk who despite his incredible achievements taking a Cub on a limited budget over halfway around the world would never get past the car park on such an occasion.

I notice no one wants to credit his achievements on this thread.

To me a lot of the PR surrounding these flights smacks of Blair and his dodgy dossier and Clinton with his Monica Lewinsky defence.

Don't let the facts get in the way.

Well publicised long distance flights such as the London Sydney run have always been for the wealthy funded individuals who want to make a song and dance about their achievements.

Romeo Tango did the UK to Australia and back to the UK in a single back in the mid 80's as he posted earlier in this thread and claimed it was no big deal.

However it appears that all of the major public names from day one were well funded while many unsung heroes have done the trip on a shoestring.

The real aviation heroes in my opinion are the ferry pilots who have flown single engine aircraft from the USA to Sydney across the Pacific for decades.

I got my single engine PA32 ferried from Camarillo in California to Sydney Australia by Southern Cross Aviation in 1989 and those guys never got a gong.

Routine work for the unsung real pilots out there.

Does it really make a difference what sex you are on these trips or indeed religion or colour.

Andy Hardy and Sam Kidd flew their old 1966 Cherokee to To Sydney in 2013 and raised over £10'000 for Oxfam.
http://cdn2.channelpro.co.uk/sites/channelpro/files/gc_route_map.gif
The trip had to route through Denmark to add an additional fuel tank. Sadly as they were two normal blokes in an old aircraft the national and international press never even mentioned them.

I understand they never qualified for a LAA navigation award or a HCAP award as they were just ordinary people in and ordinary aircraft.

https://dm5ei4oosl5j.cloudfront.net/posts/images/90229/preview/Waving_Flags_at_Departure_1024x764-ea2d516138ad7f15d8c69b2709080ccf.jpg

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'm not an admirer of MK for a whole bunch of reasons talked about in plenty of places - the records of how he was struck off as a vet, easily found online, are a good start. He could have done much of what he has, without breaking quite so many rules, or deliberately setting out to undermine other people's positions.

But some of the other names mentioned. Eve Jackson - largely unsupported, and built the aeroplane herself first! Dave Sykes - totally unsupported, and in a wheelchair when not in a microlight. Brian Milton - partially supported, partially solo and not brilliant at acknowledging those who did help him, but nonetheless he did it all with a great deal of flair and managed all of the flying himself. All three of these I've seen regularly just turning up and being "another aviator" at numerous aviation events, and for that they also deserve respect.

And various people who have done things like this for charity - Andy and Sam being a good example.

There are people out there who have definitely earned accolades for their flying.

Any award for TCT (or anybody else), I think should be judged in the perspective of what it was for. If it's for publicising light aviation and inspiring young women in particular to take up flying - there are some valid points there, because she has. But, letting it be assumed that she was flying solo (and there's plenty around saying she had a more experienced pilot on board for a lot of her trips, not just a cameraman) is a tad naughty.

G

[Mike Flynn]

It is worth highlighting Abovetheclouds because your achievments are devalued by modern tv 'reality' programmes.

Did you really precede the French record?


'In 1993, the TBM 700 set a Paris-to-Paris around-the-world record of 80 hours.'

EADS SOCATA -- Company History (http://www.company-histories.com/EADS-SOCATA-Company-History.html)

[Above The Clouds]

Jay Sata
because your achievments are devalued by modern tv 'reality' programmes.

Well its a good job I don't watch reality programmes :)


Did you really precede the French record?

'In 1993, the TBM 700 set a Paris-to-Paris around-the-world record of 80 hours.'


I guess so, never really paid much attention to it after the event, would have to check the logbook but fairly sure it was 89'

[Flying Lawyer]

Jay SataWithout actually saying it FL you agree the spirit of Maurice KirkIn some respects, I do. In others, I certainly do not.
I would not use Maurice Kirk as an example of adventurous pilots I admire.


I understand they never qualified for ..... a HCAP award as they were just ordinary people in and ordinary aircraft.As you have demonstrated in both your threads, your 'understanding' of anything to do with the Air Pilots is invariably utter nonsense that you have made up.
That assertion is no exception.


FYI:
The overwhelming majority of people honoured by the Air Pilots are what you describe as "ordinary" people.
I'd estimate about 99%.
It is their outstanding achievements that make them extraordinary.

[Romeo Tango]

Yes, audacity is correct!

IMHO we have to remember that in the PR world truth is what you can persuade people it is. When flying we don't have the luxury of wishing for things.

All this (and some other stuff!) will come out in the wash in due course. Shouting any more about it here will not help.

Women like TCT can be fun!

[4Greens]

Thie amazing aviatrix crashed in her Boeing Stearman on take off from Winslow airfield Arizona. Fortunately she and her passenger are ok.
She recently recreated Amy Johnsons flight from England to Australia last year.

[Shytehawk]

She certainly did no recreate Amy Johson's flight. She followed the same route, with immensely better navigation aids and she was not flying solo.

[NearlyStol]

4 GREENS.

'She recently recreated Amy Johnsons flight from England to Australia last year.'

Not quite !

[Blink182]

2nd accident within 12 months..........Is an Insurance company one of her sponsors ?

[Mike Flynn]

Artemis Investments were the main sponsor.

I guess your investment can go down as quickly as it goes up or even crash:ok:

[piperboy84]

Poor girl, her plane is totally minced, With that kind of density altitude I wonder if she had to rich a mixture on TO ?

[piperboy84]

Doesn't matter who's name is on the title it's still a beautiful aircraft getting wrecked which is always a shame. If this was a more modern aircraft it would be written off, rebuilding the damage on this one looks like a mamouth task.

Good luck to them.

[Mike Flynn]

I suspect you are correct with heavy aircraft on takeoff and rich cut.

Pilot flying when problems occured probably would have been the instructor owner in the front seat but his company and experience is based in Austria where a high temp rich cut scenario would never occur.

The airframe will take a while to recover and rebuild.

[Maoraigh1]

I find it hard to believe any pilot in that area would not have "Mixture leaned" in their Checklist.

[megan]

I find it hard to believe any pilot in that area would not have "Mixture leaned" in their Checklist. Yes, but, as Rumsfeld said, you don't know what you don't know. Experience can be a hard teacher, first comes the exam, then comes the lesson.
She said: ‘It seemed to accelerate normally down the runway and climbed normally initially but within a very short space of time it became obvious we weren’t going anywhere.
‘It wouldn’t climb. It never got over about 50ft. It was just a choice of a gradual turn and put the thing down and then it went into a bush.’
It did a full flip and ended up the right way up. The aeroplane is just destroyed

[kghjfg]

I'm glad her and the cameraman who sat in with her on her epic solo adventures are ok.
Apparently they are going to try and have it ready for Farnborough in July, they have spare wings ! So it may already be Triggers' broom anyway.

[India Four Two]

I'm glad her and the cameraman who sat in with her on her epic solo adventures are ok.

kghjfg,
Are you serious or tongue-in-cheek?

The "cameraman/passenger" was Ewald Gritsch, the owner of the aircraft and of an Austrian Stearman restoration business. He was also in the front cockpit when Tracy landed at Sydney after her "solo" flight.

[kghjfg]

that *may* have been my point.
He's always called "the cameraman" in her PR material.
But let's not get into all that again.
;-)

[Reverserbucket]

She said: ‘It seemed to accelerate normally down the runway and climbed normally initially but within a very short space of time it became obvious we weren’t going anywhere.
‘It wouldn’t climb. It never got over about 50ft. It was just a choice of a gradual turn and put the thing down and then it went into a bush.’
It did a full flip and ended up the right way up. The aeroplane is just destroyed Doesn't sound a very technical description to me - presumably this was intended for lay readers? This reminds me of the lady who flew an R44 around the world in the '90's accompanied by an experienced chaperone although I understand she did achieve the same feat solo later on - I don't think there was any suggestion she was solo the first time though.

Winslow can be a bit swirly at times and performance considerations must be taken into account - surely an experienced vintage operator would lean off the mixture under the circumstances regardless of where the aircraft is based -they've flown this all over the world, right? I know of a number of density altitude related accidents at fairly nearby Sedona but the risk is exacerbated there as the airfield sits on a monolith with a significant drop on all sides - indeed a friend of mine (former FJ's, airline and much single-engine piston experience) died in a horrific accident in the area a few years ago although the reason was undetermined, the suggestion was density altitude related.

[flybymike]

the lady who flew an R44 around the world

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Murray

Remarkable, beautiful, classy lady.

[Mike Flynn]

Wealthy and well connected spring to mind.

Google her.

Same with Tracy Curtis Taylor:ok:

Not exactly poor shop assistants.

However money and sponsorship cannot buy experience.

Density altitude and a rich mixture cut caught them out.

Lucky they got away with the turn.

[Flying Lawyer]

Interesting indeed.
Thank you for posting the link.

The National Post is a relatively small circulation Canadian publication.

[Jetblu]

Genghis

Your statement below is not strictly correct.


"So far as I recall, the only issue over there was one or two obsessive individuals who just peed everybody off by going on about the woman incessantly when there was already a broad consensus of opinion."


I imagine that members of aviation internet forums represent less than 5% of the subscribers of the Flyer magazine. Whilst we [on here and there] clearly know the truth, it is also true to say that probably 95% of the magazine community will be intentionally mislead on how that top 10 was concluded.

It was convenient [for me] that the publisher of Flyer was to hand when I presented this very question of deceit, and how the story would be portrayed to readers.

Here is what was said .....




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jetblu wrote:
Deceit is deceit, which ever way you want to spell it. Whilst it has been made quite clear that Flyer have no great interest in covering the factual, and very important matter, it will be interesting to see how it is reported in the Pilot Magazine.

G-BLEW wrote Mon May 09, 2016 5:02 pm
Well, she's made it into their list of '10 outstanding women from aviation history' so I guess that's how they've chosen to cover it.

Ian
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Not good if you ask me.

[Pilot DAR]

The National Post is a relatively small circulation Canadian publication.And, we're proud of it - for its thorough research, and detailed reporting. The National Post has again, presented an interesting story.

[piperboy84]

I really don't care if the bird was solo or not, nor how many gongs she did or didn't receive, it's one helluva flight all the same. What I can't understand is Sam who's company was hired to provide support services for one of her flights, appears to now be pissing in his customers well. That kind of thing has got to be a show stopper for future clients looking to contract for similar services.

I'm surprised, as what little I know about his business from reading his service offerings and customer trip reports online they seemed to be a pretty professional outfit.

[Small Rodent Driver]

Interesting story here...

After Arizona desert crash, critics of British pilot say they want the truth behind famous flights | National Post (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/after-arizona-desert-crash-critics-of-british-pilot-say-they-want-the-truth-behind-famous-flights)

Interesting article. Whilst I have no major interest in TCT or her round the world (solo or otherwise) personal adventure, has anybody considered that the Boeing link may not be down to one of her elevated connections? Rather that Boeing may have an interest and be perfectly entitled to a mention on the side of the aircraft because erm......... it's a Boeing and was built way back in one of their factories?

[piperboy84]

Interesting article. Whilst I have no major interest in TCT or her round the world (solo or otherwise) personal adventure, has anybody considered that the Boeing link may not be down to one of her elevated connections? Rather that Boeing may have an interest and be perfectly entitled to a mention on the side of the aircraft because erm......... it's a Boeing and was built way back in one of their factories?

SRD: Do you mean like how my old tractor has "F O R D" in large letters across the bonnet ?

[B Fraser]

I guess the statement "alone in an open cock-pit(sic)" is true.


She was alone in hers.


He was alone in his.

[Stanwell]

Exactly!
Some clever word-smithing has been used (and refined) throughout these well orchestrated deceptions.
The whole fraud has been perpetrated so well that, aside from the tabloid-reading gullibles and couch-potatoes, even the 'Honourable Company'
has been sucked in to lending this rort undue credibility. :=

[abgd]

What baffles me is that as a CPL and flying instructor with an interest in aerobatics and classic aircraft (or so her CV says), something would have to be seriously wrong for her not to be able to fly a training aircraft around solo. So why risk the inevitable.

[Katamarino]

it's one helluva flight all the same

This is the thing; no, it isn't. It's trivial, given the money and support team.

[piperboy84]

This is the thing; no, it isn't. It's trivial, given the money and support team.

Don't know Kat, I've sat in the Maule which I imagine has similar speeds to the Stearman for multi day, 500 mile legs with both pilots and non pilots in the right seat and regardless you're mentally and physically knackered by the end of the day.

[Jetblu]

In fact, it is a most serious matter, much beyond the deceit of the solo/alone flight itself.

Artemis are allegedly a multi billion dollar investment firm, allegedly, riding on the thermals of deceit. That has far more serious ramifications I would have thought.

Generally, bona fide sponsors, run shy from this type of behaviour, as seen in recent months/years by dope users.


EDIT* I am unsurprised by Sam's stance on this. They have their own integrity in the wider picture to preserve without being accused of being a conspirator to the deceit. Who could genuinely blame them.

I also notice how the BWPA are remaining tight-lipped on this at the moment.

[Heliport]

Jay Sata

You keep pointing out in various threads that Tracy Curtis-Taylor's flights were not solo and that her claims are very misleading.
No-one has disagreed with you.

Instead of continuing to preach to the converted, why don't you and/or Sam Rutherford try to get newspapers interested?
Every British newspaper has a website with contact details for sending stories/news items. I assume newspapers around the world have the same facility.

You could include a link to the National Post item.
Canadians may, as Pilot DAR says, be proud of the National Post but it has a small circulation. If bigger news organisations run the story it will reach many more readers.

[airpolice]

Could someone point me at a web site claiming that she was solo?

Apart of course from people on pprune claiming that she claimed it etc.

[piperboy84]

So it boils down to SOLO or ALONE. Alright it's pretty obvious she wasn't solo but was she alone? The guys name sounds a bit Tuetonic, he could have been a right anti social, humorless dullard devoid of any personality.

[Pilot DAR]

Quote:
In order to complain that TCT is misleading people we need a staement from her saying it is is a solo gig
Did you not see the second photograph I posted?

That is TCT speaking. Look at the backdrop.
"alone in an open cock-pit plane"

'Seems convincing to me! Heliport's and GtE's posts sum it up nicely. Now, if she'd said she was alone in the cockpit, maybe things would be a bit different ;). Or, perhaps there were no flying controls in the other cockpit....

It would be nice to think that our peers, particularly those who know they are in the public eye, are active in their efforts to prevent misunderstanding.

[Flyingmac]

My very first flight in a powered aircraft was alone in the cockpit of a Tiger Moth. I was twelve years old.


That has to be award worthy, surely. I'll get onto the LAA. I want a Gong.

[Heston]

Yeah its simply that the media don't understand the difference between
"alone in an open cockpit" and
"alone, in an open cockpit"

I've flown across the Atlantic "alone in seat 39A" but not
"alone, in seat 39A"

To say that TCT is not deliberately misleading anyone is silly - she may be grammatically correct, but I don't beleive the choice of words and (lack of) punctuation is not deliberately intended to mislead.

[Flyingmac]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Murray

Remarkable, beautiful, classy lady.

Incredible achievement with just two, sometimes three support aircraft, one of them a shadowing helicopter and unlimited finance.:D

[homonculus]

It is also educational to look at her highly professional website Tracey Curtis Taylor - Aviatrix, Adventurer, Inspirational Speaker (http://www.birdinabiplane.com/) where the home page referring to the crash states 'Tracey and her passenger Ewald Gritsch'

The trip to Australia is described as 'flying with basic period instruments'

And the extensive picture gallery shows an empty front cockpit and I fail to see any mention of a second pilot.

I am struggling to reconcile this with substandard journalists misunderstanding press releases and slips of the tongue in interviews and lectures. If she has the money or connections to go on this sort of jolly, good luck to her - I would love to do so - but please dont besmirch the memory of grater aviators from the past. I am sure she would have just as much publicity were she not to deceive people so one has to ask why?

[Mike Flynn]

I guess the answer is that flying solo to Australia is not an easy task doing it the way Amy Johnson did it.
Like a lot of reality tv players these days she seems to enjoy basking in the glare of publicity.

It is not just the national and international media that has failed to see through the PR smokescreen.


In March Pilot magazine chose to list her alongside some of the all time greats in women's aviation at a time when there was already plenty of online discussion over her claims.

10 outstanding women from aviation history - Features - Pilot (http://www.pilotweb.aero/features/10_outstanding_women_from_aviation_history_1_4006901)
The world of aviation has long been known as a male dominated occupation and hobby. Thankfully it is becoming an increasingly popular vocation for women to discover and enjoy. We have decided to reflect and celebrate the women who made some of the most groundbreaking achievements with regards to aviation history.

To list her alongside Amy Johnson,Amelia Earheart ,the first woman in space Valentina Tereshkova and Sheila Scott is a travesty.

No mention there of Dianna Britten who in 1995 became the first woman in history to claim the title of British Aerobatic Champion. Or Eve Jackson who flew a microlight from the UK to Australia in 1986 a long time before the luxury of GPS, iPads and mobile phones.

I can forgive the mainstream press when they make errors in reporting aviation matters but flying magazines have a duty to get it right.

It would be interesting to hear from the editor why he chose to publish that item and perhaps what plans he has to correct it.

[megan]

Sheila Scott, now there was a real genuine female solo wide world ranging aviator, a Brit to boot as well.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/SheilaScott_Mythre_1971.jpg/1280px-SheilaScott_Mythre_1971.jpg

[Cows getting bigger]

From her website

As with the Africa expedition, the flight to Australia recreated the essence of the period; open cockpit, stick and rudder flying with basic period instruments and a short range between landing points which involved frequent stops in some remote parts of the world.

A small support crew travelled in a light modern aircraft recording and capturing the epic journey and the wonders of crossing three continents in a vintage open cockpit biplane. Day to day news was posted on an interactive website and the whole adventure will be made into a documentary series for broadcast.

I suppose the point is that the absence of any comment regarding Ewald is sneaky in itself. Certainly leaves a bit of a sour taste.

[Genghis the Engineer]

It is very noticeable that absolutely everything is about her as the pilot, and every statement she makes is about "I".

I can't think of any other instance where that's been the case - other people have had co-pilots / navigators / assistants / companions - but I can't recall any instances where there's been such apparently deliberate concealment that somebody else was there.

G

[Marchettiman]

And don't forget Judith Chisholm who in 1980 took the solo London-Australia record (held by Jean Batten since 1934) in a single engined Cessna 210T which she dry leased never even thinking to claim it was hers'. She continued around the world setting many more records, a number of which still stand. www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz9LdBC0ddE

Both Sheila Scott and Judith Chisholm flew SOLO, as did their pioneering predecessors, and without extensive and expensive accompanying technical support and publicity machines. In my view both of these ladies genuinely deserved the many accolades they received from society and their peers in the aviation community. They are the true inspiration to future female pilots and would have continued to be so had they both not succumbed prematurely to cancer.

[flybymike]

Originally Posted by flybymike View Post
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Murray

Remarkable, beautiful, classy lady.

Incredible achievement with just two, sometimes three support aircraft, one of them a shadowing helicopter and unlimited finance.

Good job I confined my opinion exclusively to the lady and not her pathetic non achievement then.

[Mike Flynn]

Most of these big adventures, that generate reams of newsprint around the world,have always been the arena where the rich and wealthy get recognition in their social circle.

Balloon here,cross the Atlantic in a big powerboat there or perhaps climb Everest this morning while next week it is a trek to the South Pole.

The rewards come fast and loose from their various clubs and organisations as we have seen with Tracey.

Compare previous reciepients of the HCAP Masters award to TCT. How on earth, if you pardon the pun, can TCT be in the same class as last years winners.

Or the Air League award!

There is a deafening silence from the various GA key people,such as the magazine editors ,who would love to shut this thread down and silence people such as Sam Rutherford who places honesty and integrity above his commercial interests.

Sadly this whole debacle,far from promoting women in UK general aviation, suggests again the well financed and socially connected are still the winners.

I should say Steve Slater, CEO of the LAA, finds himself between a rock and a hard place.

He has the problem of justifying the Bill Woodham Navigation Award.

Given to Tracy who only flew four solo legs out of a journey of 44 on her claimed Africa adventure with presentations across the world.

Plus he is a liveryman of the HCAP and has publicly expressed doubt of the award of the Masters Medal to Tracey Curtis Taylor.
http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=98714&start=15

On top of that he writes every month for Pilot.

I know a couple of key people in the UK media are delving in to this story and it only a matter of time before it appears in the national press.

Why have we never had a post on here defending her adventures from the hero herself?

In my opinion this hyper promoted woman does nothing to further GA or eliminate the public view flying light aircraft is only for the rich.

[Piltdown Man]

Her interview was interesting to say the least. If we think of a frequently used flying mantra, aviate communicate and navigate it was clear that she didn't always communicate and a Garmin 430 did the navigating. So that leaves the aviating bit and that hasn't always ended up too well. And in her response the question "What is it like flying alone?" you got the impression that she was alone by herself, everyone else was airbrushed out. So I truly wonder what she has achieved for women. It is a shame really because women are under represented in the air in general and in our flight decks in particular. Let us hope TCT's exploits don't put any off.

PM

[Mike Flynn]

If I can just expand this discussion is there an element of not questioning what was going on here because she was a well promoted woman.

Would we react the same if a man had engineered a situation where he had got a Light Aviation Association award,plus major peer recognition from the prestigious Honourable Company Of Air Pilots by sleight of publicity?

Dave Sykes is my nomination for a real genuine public award for a person who has overcome his disability and achieved a wonderful adventure flying such a small aircraft from the UK to Australia.

No big hotels,support team, flight following aircraft or high end hotels.

Dave is a real adventurer but sadly lacks the big sponsors. It would be interesting to see Tracey fly this in another microlight alongside him

http://www.polarflight.co.uk/images/M_images/Pics/picture7.png

In my opinion the LAA and the HCAP have not been honest and upfront in trying to brush this sad affair under the carpet.

[Flying Lawyer]

Jay SataMost of these big adventures, that generate reams of newsprint around the world,have always been the arena where the rich and wealthy get recognition in their social circle.In my opinion this hyper promoted woman does nothing to further GA or eliminate the public view flying light aircraft is only for the rich.
Can you post, or provide a link to, any evidence that TCT is "rich and wealthy"?
She undoubtedly raised an enormous amount of money in sponsorship ("about a £million" she said recently) and obtained other support which would have cost a fortune if she'd had to pay for it. That is very different from being personally "rich and wealthy."Sadly this whole debacle, far from promoting women in UK general aviation, suggests again the well financed and socially connected are still the winners.
TCT was well-financed (see above) and is undoubtedly 'socially connected' now.
Can you post, or provide a link to, any evidence that she was 'socially connected' before these flights?
Compare previous reciepients of the HCAP Masters award to TCT. How on earth, if you pardon the pun, can TCT be in the same class as last years winners.
I readily understand why many people might share your view - even more so if they wrongly believe that last year's Master awarded her a Master's Medal for a 'solo' flight.

Plus (Steve Slater) is a liveryman of the HCAP and has publicly expressed doubt of the award of the Masters Medal to Tracey Curtis Taylor.What Steve Slater actually said was: I have reservations as to whether the Air Pilots are right in awarding her such an accolade for a ‘Feat of Navigation’.
As you are well aware, TCT was not awarded a Master's Medal for a ‘Feat of Navigation’.

I have never done, nor am I ever likely to do, any flying that would come even close to meriting any award. However, I do know a great deal about advocacy and I've watched with interest in various threads on this topic as you consistently ruin valid points by endless repetition and by introducing often silly extraneous matters.
As comedian Frank Carson used to say, "It's the way I tell 'em!"
There's another side to that coin which you illustrate well: You manage to irritate people who actually agree with your basic point.
If you could lose your chip about wealthy people (which, as far as I'm aware, TCT is not) and keep your message simple, restricting yourself to incontrovertible facts, you are far more likely to be taken seriously and not dismissed as some crank with a bee in his bonnet.


(Edit)

"big hotels", "high end hotels"
There you go again.
I have no idea where she stayed, but does it matter?
Should where a pilot stayed during a long international flight be a factor taken into account when deciding whether he/she deserves an award?
Dave Sykes is my nomination for a real genuine public award
What have you done about it?
It's pointless nominating him here. PPRuNe doesn't give awards.

[Flying Lawyer]

In answer to your edited post -

I perhaps should inform you of the hard time Tracey sufferedI have never suggested that she had a hard time.

Can you explain to me how this mirrored Amy Johnson's horendous 21 day epic voyage in a pre cursor of the Tiger Moth back in 1921?I don't think it does.
I don't know anyone who does.

As for the HCAP Masters Medal....probably now worth as much as all those old cheap gold commemorative coins peddled on daytime tv.There you go again. :rolleyes:


And your subsequent post -

I thought she flew a Shuttleworth aircraft.
If she didn't, I stand corrected.

Now justify the award of the Bill Woodham Navigation Award to someone who only,according to ex army pilot Sam Rutherford, flew 4 out of 44 legs on her so called Aviatrix BBC programme.
Why do you ask me to do that? :confused:
I'm not a member of the organisation which gave her that award.
I'd be interested to learn how they justify it.

I have already told you, in other threads, why TCT was awarded the Master's Medal.
If you were less blinkered you might have noticed that I gave you the facts - no more, no less.

[Mike Flynn]

Thanks for admitting she never flew a Shuttleworth aircraft. Her website claims have been clever in their wording.

The Stearman used for all her flights was housed at Shuttleworth. She obviously did fly it there but that does not give her the status of being a museum pilot.

I asked you about the LAA Bill Woodham award as I assume you know and talk to Steve Slater who is the CEO of the LAA but also a member of the HCAP? It appears you would like to know how they justified it but it appears it was awarded before the facts were known. Steve seems to agree there are issues. Can I suggest a reappraisal of the info presented to the LAA and the HCAP and you all convene before this makes the national press?

Let me ask you a direct question...do you think Tracey Curtis Taylor flew as a solo pilot the Artemis sponsored Stearman from the UK to Sydney as portrayed by the national and international press?

When you have your awards banquet later in the year will you all be happy to give this prestigious Masters Medal to someone who clearly had another person on board as depicted in global news pictures?

Will all of you in the HCAP agree...she deserved it?

Or will you convene and reassess the possibility you just might have been conned?

[ak7274]

On a lighter note........... Judith's little Jodel G-BDIH is still flying in the hand of Duncan Cotter at Full Sutton.
A bit like Trigger's brush after a couple of whoopsies, but how many of that age aren't?

[Flying Lawyer]

Jay SataThe point I would make is you don't set out on a three month trip to Australia in a gas guzzling Stearman with no cash in the bank or time on your hands.Do you really think people on an aviation website didn't already know that?
See my earlier comments about sponsorship.I spent a decade as a BBC Radio Wales radio presenter with a daily programme during the 1980's and the miners strike. I admit I'm flabbergasted by that.
What's happened to your communication skills since the 1980s?
I think I know a lot more about wealth or lack of it than most on here.Perhaps. I was brought up in Wales very near the mining valleys, have a house there and visit regularly.
We disagree about the relevance of personal wealth in this context.
I have no reason to believe that TCT is personally wealthy but she is clearly extremely good at raising sponsorship.

Yes, I know Steve Slater. I haven't seen him for about 18 months and have no reason to contact him to discuss the LAA award.
I'm curious about it, not obsessed with it.before this makes the national press?It's taking a long time to do so, in any country. As far as I'm aware, only a small circulation media outlet in Canada has questioned the 'solo' aspects of TCT's flights. You might have had more success if you restricted yourself to incontrovertible facts, presented coherent focused arguments and avoided making unfounded assertions which are demonstrably untrue.
Let me ask you a direct question...do you think Tracey Curtis Taylor flew as a solo pilot the Artemis sponsored Stearman from the UK to Sydney as portrayed by the national and international press?If you took the trouble to digest what people say you would not need to ask that question.
My response to you as long ago as the 29th April began with this:I agree with you that any suggestion that it was a solo flight is very misleading.My response to you on the 5th May included this:You have made your point that TCT's flight was not solo in any sensible meaning/interpretation of that term.
No-one has disagreed with that - in either of your two other threads in this forum.
Many of us already knew.

When you have your awards banquet later in the year will you all be happy to give this prestigious Masters Medal to someone who clearly had another person on board as depicted in global news pictures?I told you on the 29th April:
The Honourable Company of Air Pilots has awarded her the Master's Medal (which will be presented in October) for highlighting women in aviation and encouraging girls/young women to pursue their aspirations even if they seem to be beyond reach. I don't remember the precise words but that is the gist. The Court (governing body) of the Air Pilots was fully aware that it was not a solo flight when it ratified the (then) Master's decision.




ak7274On a lighter note........... Judith's little Jodel G-BDIH is still flying.
That's good.
The (leased) C210 in which she set/broke so many records in 1980 was destroyed just a few years later.

[B Fraser]

Mr Lawyer sir,


I appreciate you responding on an open forum which is quickly turning into a lion's den. As a point of reference, we both know one woman who is a helicopter pilot and it is a privilege to count her as a friend. Another woman was my main instructor and she now has a very successful career flying what could be argued to be one of the most iconic routes in commercial aviation. Today, these are very normal situations so I question the need to call out any achievement where the possession of a pair of ovaries is a deciding factor.


Getting back to the point, it appears that TCT's endeavour in highlighting women in aviation is not all that it seems. Would you not agree that taking along a qualified pilot in the front cockpit plus a number of men in a second aircraft rather detracts from demonstrating that women can fly solo for long distances ? A team effort of getting a biplane half way around the world is an achievement but in my view, does not merit any award.

[Flying Lawyer]

Would you not agree that taking along a qualified pilot in the front cockpit plus a number of men in a second aircraft rather detracts from demonstrating that women can fly solo for long distances?

Yes.
Not that it needed demonstrating. Several women have already done so - solo in every sense. (And pre GPS.) Some of them have been mentioned in this thread.


In the various threads on this topic, I have explained the rationale behind the Air Pilots' award, and corrected some of Jay Sata's absurd claims about the organisation.
I haven't expressed any opinion either way about the award, and won't.

[mikehallam]

I suspect F.L. is helping by saying two things.

Make your points accurately and succinctly, so as -

a) Not to bring your own views into disrepute.

and

b) Not to lay yourself open to a libel action from rich & powerful folk.

mike hallam

[nigelthepilot]

And don't forget Judith Chisholm who in 1980 took the solo London-Australia record (held by Jean Batten since 1934) in a single engined Cessna 210T which she dry leased never even thinking to claim it was hers'. She continued around the world setting many more records, a number of which still stand. www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz9LdBC0ddE

Both Sheila Scott and Judith Chisholm flew SOLO, as did their pioneering predecessors, and without extensive and expensive accompanying technical support and publicity machines. In my view both of these ladies genuinely deserved the many accolades they received from society and their peers in the aviation community. They are the true inspiration to future female pilots and would have continued to be so had they both not succumbed prematurely to cancer.
Thank you, Marchettiman, for mentioning Judith Chisholm. With just about every other female flyer being mentioned whenever the press, both aviation and public, talks about women pilots, she seems to have been airbrushed from aviation history. Her achievements were astounding, not the least of which was using a roll of paper around two dowels with her entire route drawn on it which, as the flight proceeded, she unrolled from one dowel to the other.
If anyone feels like sharing any memories of this remarkable woman with me I'd love to hear from you. My email is [email protected] which perhaps is better to use than clogging up the forum.
Nigel (Stokes)

[Kr2 worldtour]

Biplane adventurer Tracey Curtis-Taylor crashes in Arizona desert - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36310360)

Two things that I found strange? How did the plane get to America, last time I heard it was in Australia. Don't answer that I know it was in a container. So its not really flying around the world and who was flying the plane when they had the power loss.

I know its just sour grapes, but still.

About GPS use. I know it has taken the challenge out of Navigation, but on the way to Australia our plane had a range of about 360 sm and we had to do a flight to a tiny atol in the Timor Sea about 1,000 meter long 400 meters wide. Traughton island, there was a runway on it and more fuel. It was 320 from Timor. We could not have been sure of making the flight without the GPS on board. So it takes away the challenge of Navigation, but opens up the opportunities to fly small aircraft around the world with little budget. We wouldn't have left home without the GPS, because we couldn't have got to Australia.

I've written an article in the June addition of Pilot about touring and all the misconceptions of planning and costs. Blag a copy and have a read.

Colin H.

KR2 World Tour (http://kr2worldtour.com)

[Flying Lawyer]

Nigelthepilot

I agree entirely with your comments about Judith Chisholm. I have no idea why that is.

London 18 Nov 1980
Cyprus 19 Nov
Sri Lanka 20 Nov
Jakarta 21 Nov
Port Hedland, WA 22-23 Nov
Sydney 24-25 Nov
Auckland 26-28 Nov (Where she was welcomed on arrival by the great Jean Batten, whose record she had broken.)
Honolulu, 29-30 Nov
San Francisco, 1 Dec
Winnipeg, 2 Dec
Goose Bay, 2 Dec
London 3 Dec

All solo.

Judith died in 1988, just a few days after her 41st birthday.
I don't know if it's available on the net but you may be interested in 'Stardust: Judith Margaret Chisholm - A Memoir' written by Judith's mother Audrey Lowe, circa 2000. I would have offered to lend you my copy but I lent it to someone years ago, haven't seen it since and can't now remember who it was.
Marchettiman is only an occasional visitor to PPRuNe. I'll pass on your message. He knew Judith far better than I did.


mike hallam

You can lead a horse to water ………. ;)

[Chris Royle]

Hi FL
What my chum Nigel omitted to say was that he was the custodian of G-BDIH for many, many years after Judith died, culminating in a total rebuild about 7 years ago. (See G-INFO for a couple of nice photos).
Ownership has now passed to a gentleman in Yorkshire who no doubt is very pleased with this delightful aeroplane.
Best wishes,
Chris

[mary meagher]

Okay guys, let me first set out my credentials. I am NOT an "aviatrix", I am a pilot. Been flying since 1983; with 1,400 hours power and an IR, and tug pilot; and 1,800 hours in gliders, flying as an instructor and in competition, and managed to achieve 3 diamonds in a Single Seat pegasus glider (nobody hiding in there!), with a distance of 511 kilometers, staying airborne and finishing the task in 8 hours and 53 minutes. And in Scotland, the gain of height from low point of 20,300 feet. Try that without an engine, you numpties!

For B. Fraser to call attention to women posessing a pair of ovaries is in very poor taste. Does he flaunt his equipment to prove his gender? I would be happy to see that thoughtless remark eliminated.

I have included a brief history of six amazing women.

Sophie Blanchard had to carry on flying her husband's hydrogen balloon after he died of a heart attack in Paris in 1809. She flew display solo for ten years before fireworks set fire to the hydrogen.

Harriet Quimby was the first woman to gain a US pilot's license, and the first woman to fly SOLO across the English Channel.

Amy Johnson flew SOLO (and there are photos to prove it!) in her Gypsy Moth from Croydon, leaving the 5th of May and arriving in Darwin Australia on May 24. She flew warplane deliveries for the ATA, but did not survive the war.

Ann Welch, OBE, flew routine deliveries for the ATA of Hurricanes, Spitfires, and Blenhiem Bombers. She married and raised two daughters while engaged in this service....then went on to organising the London Gliding Club, and Lasham, and also was key in building a framework for the development of flexwing personal aircraft in the UK. She died in 2002.

Marina Raskova, Antonov Record Holder, organised the Nachthexten, regiments of Soviet women pilots who were given very ancient fighter planes to fly over German camps and drop the bomb load to spoil their rest....only two very small bombs could be carried! but the invaders didn't like it

and Hanna Reitsch, the first female helicopter pilot, displayed the new heli regularly every day for three weeks at the International Auto Show, INSIDE the exhibition hall. She was also the first woman to fly jets, the ME262 and HE162. She also was the only test pilot light enough to test the V-1 rocket.
She survived the war.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Harriet Quimby's Channel Crossing largely went unremarked, as unfortunately the Titanic sank the previous day, which rather dominated the headlines.

I had the privilege of knowing Ann Welch quite well for the last 10ish years of her life - she was, and remains, an enormous inspiration to me personally. One of the things that few knew about her (and Ann doubtless never saw it as anything special) is that she was one of the greatest polymaths I have ever met. Aside from her aviation achievements, and management achievements, she was also a highly accomplished artist, and she was a highly successful published author, and she tutored writing at the local college, and she was a highly regarded naturalist.

One of many AW stories - the supply is near endless. When she was president of FAI, she was off to a meeting in Europe somewhere, flying on a scheduled airliner. She asked one of the cabin crew, if she could have a cockpit visit - giving her name and saying she was very interested in aviation (now there's an understatement, if ever there was one). The stewardess went off to the cockpit bemused by this request from a rather elderly lady. She came back looking extremely impressed - "Mrs Welch, the Captain sends his compliments, and if you wouldn't mind his thanking you in person for his first flying lesson in a glider when he was 16, you'd be welcome to spend the rest of the flight in the cockpit jumpseat".


Eric Brown once described Hanna Reitsch in my hearing with the phrase "brilliant pilot, dreadful woman".

G

[flybymike]

Fascinating interviews with Hanna Reitch here.
https://youtu.be/4vxxHyl46co

[Kr2 worldtour]

On a lighter note and to jump on the bandwagon, does this mean my solo, budget around the world flight is not solo either? Dam!

https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7779/27204073435_55bc68fac4.jpg

Kr2worldtour.com

[Genghis the Engineer]

As everybody knows you can't actually get two people in a KR2 with more than three instruments in it - I reckon you're on safe ground there old boy.

G

[Senior Pilot]

Agreeing with each other on PPRuNe isn’t going to achieve anything.

Writing to the Master, asking why someone who has made false claims about flying solo should be honoured by an Honourable Company might.

Attaching the photograph of her speaking in Seattle would make the point very clearly.

Captain Peter Benn
Honourable Company of Air Pilots
Cobham House
9 Warwick Court
Gray's Inn
London WC1R 5DJ

Or email to Captain Peter Benn: [email protected]

[megan]

Thanks for the heads up on Judith Chisholm, must confess not familiar with the Lady. She certainly didn't waste any time on her round the world FL.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/after-arizona-desert-crash-critics-of-british-pilot-say-they-want-the-truth-behind-famous-flights

[B Fraser]

Mary,


My comment was not intended to cause offence, only to point out that in this day and age we thankfully live in a liberal democracy and the possession of a bumpy chest is irrelevant. The individual is important and not their chromosomes. It doesn't matter if their gonads are tucked away or hang outside. Your posting underlines my point very well in that women have achieved a great deal without their gender being a factor. I would add Lettice Curtis to your list. An awesome individual who happened to be a woman but had her achievements been completed in the modern era, I would not consider her gender to have had any relevance. You may well disagree but I think that a meaningful goal for feminism is for gender not to be counted when handing out praise. The measure of a liberal democracy is that we should all be judged equally and not on our skin colour, favourite sky pixie or who / what you take to bed.


That equal judgement extends to the definitions of "alone" and "solo flying". It would be interesting to see TCT's log book and if "Solo" was entered against the flights.

[robin]

It would be interesting to see TCT's log book and if "Solo" was entered against the flights.

Probably just says 'P1'

[Flying Lawyer]

My only criticism of Jay Sata is the way he's gone about making his point.

If he'd focused on incontrovertible facts and on the misleading claims about the various flights then he would probably have been more persuasive.

TCT?

Never, in the field of aviation, was anyone so lauded for doing so little.

[KZ8]

There was a BBC documentary film made about Judith Chisholm's preperation for her round-the-world flight, 'JUDITH CHISHOLM. ....If the sharks dont get me....' which is available on-line in DVD format. I remember it being on the telly.

Her biography used to be available from her mother, now sadly passed away, who was the author. Hopefully it is still available.

[DaveW]

For the information of anybody reading this who is interested but doesn't visit the other forums:

Ian Seager at Flyer has banned Sam Rutherford from the Flyer forum

Jay Sata, this is NOT TRUE, and it does your credibility no good to suggest it is when those of us who followed this on Flyer are aware that you KNOW it is not true.

You made this same claim there, and after you did that Sam R posted (http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=100054&p=1453539#p1453539) to say:


A couple of clarifications seem to be in order:
I have not been banned on Flyer.
I have not been banned on any other forums!
I have been made 'invisible' on pprune - which may have caused the confusion...


[Ian S] now blocks me posting the truth on this amazing story.

That is not how looks to anyone else, I believe. You are not "blocked from posting the truth" so far as I can see from Ian S' blunt words on there. You are blocked from posting the same old thing over and over again, but your original opinions are still there to be seen by anybody.

[canopener]

Such an interesting discussion,a little detective work down under would unveil the truth from all the smoke and mirrors.Rich boy friends,hyphenated surname,self promotion,inflated ego.......all is not what it seems.Could be a bad case of "Jean Batten" syndrome...I wonder?

[9 lives]

This pilot has embarrassed herself. She has been dishonest, many times. Other people around her must have perpetuated that. Maybe she has not stopped to notice she's looking pretty foolish right now, but something will show her. In the mean time, she will fade into anonymity, where she belongs.

[mary meagher]

I have asked a couple of newspapers, the Sunday Times being one, to investigate Tracy's exploits and awards. She is certainly photogenic, and no doubt would inspire men to buy whatever she is selling....

[oggers]

TCTs achievements in aviation are underwhelming. Her achievements in PR and raising sponsorship are enviable though. At the end of the day she has found a way to indulge her passion. Get over it.

[9 lives]

At the end of the day she has found a way to indulge her passion. Get over it.

Not so fast... If deception was involved, indulging one's passion is not honourable. If I say, and my logbook says that I flew a plane solo, I was alone in the plane, and took full responsibility for the flight. Though not so much in this case, but in other circumstances, this has licensing implications. If a candidate is required for licensing reasons to fly solo, that's the requirement - no one else aboard.

If TCT would misrepresent this, what other things she might say might not be truthful?

I embrace Mary's observation that women are entitled to the same opportunities as men, and perhaps have a little less ease in achieving them. However, entitling one's self to far extended intercontinental tours in antique aircraft probably exceeds nearly all pilot's opportunities, so hardly could be considered an entitlement - of either gender. Therefore, if you can arrange it with honour (and honesty) the power to you. But if you have to misrepresent to achieve it, you dishonour your group by detracting from the achievements of others who did it with honour. To me, it's no different that athletes who take performance enhancing drugs - not honourable, and disrespects peers.

[Flyingmac]

If you can, read her book, 'Alone in the skies'. Scared the hell out of me.

Jean Batten, byname of Jane Gardner Batten (born 1909, Rotorua (http://www.britannica.com/place/Rotorua), New Zealand—died November 22, 1982, Majorca (http://www.britannica.com/place/Majorca), Spain (http://www.britannica.com/place/Spain)) aviator who made record-breaking flights from 1933 to 1937 and was perhaps the most famous New Zealander of the 1930s.
Batten was sent by her parents to England to study music, but she became intensely interested in flying and earned a private pilot’s license in 1930. She gained a commercial pilot’s license in 1932. In May 1934 she set a women’s record in her solo flight (http://www.britannica.com/technology/aviation) from England to Australia in 14 days, 23 hours, and 25 minutes. In April 1935 she became the first woman to fly solo from Australia to England, and in November 1935 she became the first woman to make a solo flight from England to Argentina. In October 1936 she made the first direct solo flight from England to New Zealand, in the process setting a record time for solo flight from England to Australia. She made other record times in solo flights from Australia to England (October 1937) and from England to Brazil (http://www.britannica.com/place/Brazil). By the late 1930s she had received many honours and was an international celebrity, but she subsequently stopped flying and became somewhat reclusive.


In this case, SOLO means just that.




If you lot don't make TCT cry, this book should.

[Stanwell]

Oh, goody...
People are just now starting to take notice of an issue wot's been going on for quite some time, now.
There are now three separate threads on PPRuNe forums discussing this subject.

WHY?

The 'Africa' thread was the first one where some members expressed some doubts about the veracity of TCT's claims.
Since then, she and her publicity machine have run totally out of control.
In spite of her initial mentor and then her major sponsor asking her to 'tone it down a bit', she considers this a 'career' .. for as long as it'll last ...
and YOU crowd can go and get ....

I'm a woman, don't you see?
... and, .. therefore, ...

While I'm a great fan of mary meagher, and wholeheartedly agree with 99.9% of her posts on here, I'm afraid she missed out badly when she opined ...
".. she is certainly photogenic .."
Nor do I think that she may have a point when she says ...
" .. and no doubt, would inspire men to buy whatever she is selling."

Good grief!
Would you buy a used plane (or anything) from her?

No, I'm afraid she's done a grave disservice to herself, her sponsors, helpers and those who've lauded her.
Pretty pathetic, really.


Eggs on face, anybody?

[oggers]

Not so fast... If deception was involved, indulging one's passion is not honourable. If I say, and my logbook says that I flew a plane solo, I was alone in the plane, and took full responsibility for the flight. Though not so much in this case, but in other circumstances, this has licensing implications. If a candidate is required for licensing reasons to fly solo, that's the requirement - no one else aboard.

So now the inflated PR claims = she has falsified her logbook.

If TCT would misrepresent this, what other things she might say might not be truthful?

..not something that is going to keep me awake at night tbh.

[canopener]

"Flyingmac" if you want to read the best biography on Jean Batten then try this "Jean Batten the Garbo of the Skies" by Ian Makersey.Behind all the Jean Battens of the world are men that paid for them.There are plenty off capable and successful women in all fields of activity that don't ride on the coat tales of so called feminism,they just do it.TCT is certainly not one of them.

[Stanwell]

Hey, oggers..
As an earlier poster had mentioned, if it's arranged that you put 'PIC' down in your logbook, then everything's cool, innit?
Anyway, I'll let you get back to your wall-size, blow-up poster.

[Flyingmac]

Behind all the Jean Battens of the world are men that paid for them.

The way in which Batten went about funding her flights in no way detracts from her achievements. How many of us would fly a thousand miles over water solo, single engine, in crap weather, non-radio, on a compass? Not TCT.


She's done nothing that most of us couldn't do, with ease.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I wonder why we are all *only* criticising TCT, and not also EG for continuously, and presumably for significant sums of money, collaborating in, and enabling, this fraud?

G

[piperboy84]

I wonder why we are all *only* criticising TCT, and not also EG for continuously, and presumably for significant sums of money, collaborating in, and enabling, this fraud?

G

Can't blame the guy, he probably got paid to completely refurb his plane , maybe a couple engines thrown in, day rate for the plane and himself, hotel and food covered and multiple trips round the world, clients offering that are few and far between. Why wouldn't he just keep his head down, enjoy himself and bank some serious money. He has no obligation ethical or otherwise to police his customers, he's simply a hired hand.

[Genghis the Engineer]

So it's okay to deceive the world for profit, but not for personal glory?

G

[piperboy84]

So it's okay to deceive the world for profit, but not for personal glory?

G

Haven't heard a peep out of the guy, never seen an interview or heard of him representing himself as anything other than what he appears to be, a guy renting out his time and equipment for personal profit which is the perfectly legal line of business he's in.

If you went down the road of blaming the contractors or suppliers for the way the end user utilised the goods and services supplied you'd have to chastise others for not grassing her up. That could at a stretch include the avionics engineer who installed the GPS and world databases on the Steerman as they probably were aware that the purpose of the flight was to recreate a historic fight made well before GPS was invented. Where do you stop? There's only one person responsible for the embellishments made, and that's the one calling the shots.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Can't say that I agree with you there. I don't see much moral difference between lying actively and lying by omission.

G

[rats404]

There may be an NDA in place that was contractually a part of the deal for him. He may not have been aware of the implications of that when he signed it.

I'm not defending him or anyone else, just positing a theory.

[gasax]

It has to be said that his 'active discretion' in some of the videos is interesting to watch. Classic I'm not really here stuff.

But given his website and hers seem to utilise the same two aircraft there may well be something rather 'deeper' going on. either way he is certainly complicit in the lie.

[Bronx]

Agreeing with each other on PPRuNe isn’t going to achieve anything.

Writing to the Master, asking why someone who has made false claims about flying solo should be honoured by an Honourable Company might.

Attaching the photograph of her speaking in Seattle would make the point very clearly.

Captain Peter Benn
Honourable Company of Air Pilots
Cobham House
9 Warwick Court
Gray's Inn
London WC1R 5DJ

Or email to Captain Peter Benn: [email protected]


Good point?

[MaxR]

I can't help thinking that, what some here identify as, the conspiracy of silence within the press (aviation and otherwise) is merely justifiable disinterest in a non-story. Fun reading this thread, though.

[Stanwell]

"Conspiracy of silence" or "Justifiable disinterest"?
With many of the 'press' that ran with the stories, I'd suggest that, having sucked the readers and viewers in due to lack of due diligence,
they simply don't want egg on their faces.
Much better just to stay shtum.

(In case you're wondering about the definition of 'shtum' in English, a dictionary example given is:
"He kept shtum about the fact that he was sent down for fraud.")

[canopener]

Is it possible that EG is just another silly old man besotted with the charming TCT?

[megan]

someone who has achieved something fairly impressiveI beg to differ, absolutely nothing impressive about it at all. GA aircraft of one sort or another have circled the globe for years. All you need is money and an aircraft. Many well heeled US brethren have so indulged themselves, a number of Aussies and Brits likewise. One recent Aussie was a teenager. And they didn't cross the watery bits courtesy of airline.

[robin]

.. and we will soon have another opportunity as a well-known lady celebrity flies a long-distance solo (in company with her boyfriend) with all the usual press and TV coverage

[A le Ron]

Even if she got into this situation by accident, and it has grown out of hand, I can't understand why she doesn't just make a clean breast of it. At least she'd sleep easy.

[Genghis the Engineer]

On the Facebook page referring to the crash, the front seat occupant is described as her "engineer".


I didn't realise that a Stearman needed a flight engineer. Begs the question of how all those other SEP record and ferry flights managed without one?

G

[megan]

Begs the question of how all those other SEP record and ferry flights managed without one?But, but, she might get oil on ones self during the pre flight, you know how those radials leak, do have to maintain pristine looks for the press you know, or snap a finger nail getting caps off checking fluid levels. Comments re this particular lady only, not a gender bash.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Indeed, I don't recall Eve Jackson ever seeming concerned about the odd oil stain, even after she'd finished building the aeroplane herself.

G

[Genghis the Engineer]

Pretty much.

Other people have done similar trips, most for more altruistic reasons, most for less personal glory, and all have been open about the level of personal commitment and external support.

I think that the level of deceit practiced by both TCT and the people supporting her, undermines GA and may well make it harder for more worthy future projects to attract support.

G

[9 lives]

I think that the level of deceit practiced by both TCT and the people supporting her, undermines GA and may well make it harder for more worthy future projects to attract support.

+1

The truth will emerge in time.

There's more?

[Jetblu]

I saw Jay Sata's lengthy post before he edited it and it would appear that there is much much more.

I'm sure we will read about it in the GA journals 😀

[Genghis the Engineer]

I saw Jay Sata's lengthy post before he edited it and it would appear that there is much much more.

I'm sure we will read about it in the GA journals 😀
I'm sure I can wait, but generally where people are unflinchingly honest in one area of their life, they probably are in all others. And, occasionally, the converse.

G

[Stanwell]

Yes, I saw it too.
A few more jigsaw-pieces added to what is already a pretty clear picture.

To quote Baltasar Gracian (1601-1658):
"One deceit needs many others, and so the whole house is built in the air and must soon come to the ground."

[Genghis the Engineer]

It's the Gemmological Association of Great Britain, not British Gemmological Association.

A quick google shows both Fellowships: FGA and FRGS as pretty easy to achieve, and of no real consequence. As such, probably no reason to doubt them either.

G

[canopener]

This has become a very interesting forum topic to follow,to that end I've done some investigation down under in good old NZ and have come up with a proverbial can of worms.....suppose my user name is appropriate.Watch this space folks.

[27/09]

Jay Sata:I would love to be listening in to the bar talk at the Auckland Flying Club

Likewise just a few doors down at NZ Warbirds Assn.

was trained by military pilots to fly World War II aeroplanes with the New Zealand Warbird Association

Danny42C: Is my memory playing me tricks, or was there yesterday an interesting and informative Post on this thread from a certain Mr Taylor who seemed to know what he was talking about ?

Would this Mr Taylor's front name start with "S" by any chance? If so I'm sure he knows what he's talking about.

[Mike Flynn]

In answer to your question...Yes:ok:

[megan]

To state that something is unimpressive whilst sitting on the sidelines looking in and without having attempted anything similar oneself seems neither valid nor particularly mature to meSo what do you find impressive about it MaxR? I find it unimpressive because of the very fact I do know what is involved. I was very closely associated, not as a participating crew member, with a successful 1971 round the world speed record attempt, and also the 1969 London - Sydney air race (Bonanza A36). Same pilot in both cases, with different second crew member.

[SilsoeSid]

airpolice;
I think that TCT is a liar, a fraud and a cheat. Freedom of speech allows me to have, and repeat that opinion. Whether I am right or wrong, is not relevant, in terms of how she is perceived by others. That's my opinion, and that makes it right, even if not correct.

You can have any opinion you like, however when you start to broadcast that opinion, freedom of speech does not excempt you from slander, or in this case libel.

Whether you are right or wrong will indeed be relevant, should the other party decide to take action against you.

[J.A.F.O.]

Jay - Why's this all so important to you? Is it really such a big deal?

[Mike Flynn]

JAFO...to answer your question......

I will tell you why in two words.

The Truth.

If you don't want to read about it go elsewhere.

Over 22,000 views and 178 posts here on pprune suggest there is interest in this.


If this had been a man trying to pull off a similar Walter Mitty stunt would we be so forgiving?

Could a couple of guys from the UK get sponsorship from the British Council to empower men in in India via their fly in and fly our appearances and staying in high end hotels?

How do a few stand ups for the press and pictures of a selection of well connected women in the Middle East or India "empower or inspire" local women?


Surely Dave Sykes achieved more in his microlight genuine single paraplegic flight from the UK to Australia than this charade?

Please check out his website and how he ended up in a wheelchair.
The Pilot (http://www.soloflightglobal.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=49&Itemid=55)

Someone else can do the sums but I reckon the Spirit of Artemis cost north of £500k and the rest to do the trip.

For those of you who do not like this discussion then I suggest you go elsewhere.

The one person we all want to hear from is Tracey:ok:

I don't think she will be along here anytime soon with copies of her log book and flightplans.

[Genghis the Engineer]

The one person we all want to hear from is Tracey

I would be equally content to hear from Ewald - if this whole subterfuge is as we believe, he's every bit as culpable as she is - it's just his profit is money rather than glory presumably.

G

[Mike Flynn]

If you do not know who she is or have any constructive comment to add please go elsewhere.

[Jetblu]

SilsoeSid

Your statement is very twentieth Century to scare people off or shut them up. Today, in the twenty first Century people are much wiser what they say. It's true to say that on the evidence presented, airpolice is quite safe and, I concur with his findings.

That said, I would have thought that 'if' any legal action was to come about, it would be by way of an injunction to shut people up and let the music play on.


J.A.F.O

"Is it really such a big deal?"


Well, if we are slowly getting conditioned by everyday politics on TV with the blatant lies and deceit, and accept that is ok, then I guess not.

On that basis, I then guess that many Crown Courts will soon be disbanded at the same rate as public lavatories, when it's decided by the converted that they are no longer a public requirement.

I am still totally bewildered and gob smacked that a hedge fund investment company [regulated by the FSA] is part of all this, with their name clearly visible on the fuselage.

[pulse1]

In this instance it is unclear whether anyone has been individually disadvantaged by any alleged economy with the truth

It looks probable that Amanda Richardson's genuine attempt to replicate Amy Johnson's solo flight to Australia was seriously disadvantaged. It must have made it much more difficult to find sponsors for a flight which, in the eyes of the PR fed media, was already successfully under way. The point that the only comparable bits of TCT's flight to that of Amy Johnson was the route and the fact that she was a woman has been entirely missed by the media.

Perhaps, once TCT's flight has been trashed by the same media, Amanda will be able to sell her attempt as a GENUINE, unsupported SOLO flight in an aeroplane that as is close to the original that makes no difference.

[fwjc]

... and moreover one of the Shuttleworth Collection display pilots

Just to make it absolutely clear that in order to be considered a Shuttleworth Collection Pilot, you have to have flown a Collection aeroplane, in an airshow. If anyone can find a picture of Tracey flying in any of the Collection aeroplanes, they'll be expert photoshoppers. Tracey is no more a Collection Pilot than the wonderful Peter Teichmann or the energetic Mark Jeffries; all are visiting display pilots who put on displays in non-Collection aeroplanes.

[Mike Flynn]

No axe to grind just flagging up the truth in the hope more genuine candidates can really "emulate Amy Johnson" to quote Tracey.

With a bit of luck and some decent sponsorship maybe Amanda Harrision can really do the job in around 21 days. (No I do not know her or have ever met her)

Now back to some more facts. If you were faced with a sea crossing from East Timor to Darwin over a distance of 390 nm would you carry as a front seat passenger;

A) Another fuel tank and maybe a raft?

B) A tv producer or researcher to let them enjoy the trip?

C) The owner of the aircraft who rebuilt it,is an engineer and also a multi thousand hour flight instructor?

I would choose answer A.

However look at this video and who do you think is in the front seat?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR07GzLr8BM

[India Four Two]

Jay,

I'm sufficiently happy with my skills, that A would definitely be my choice!

[Mike Flynn]

Same here India Four Two.

The ABC in Australia have egg on their face.

Darwin reporter James Dunlevie filed this story when she had just landed in Darwin not noticing there were two people in the aircraft.
Adventurer Tracey Curtis-Taylor's England-to-Australia flight a homage to aviation pioneer Amy Johnson - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-02/female-solo-flight-a-homage-to-aviation-pioneer-amy-johnson/7064324)

He admitted to me in a phone call yesterday they missed Ewald Gritsch sitting up front

And his colleague in Sydney Stephanie Dalzell also failed to notice two people on board the 'solo' flight when it landed to a grand reception at Sydney.
A British aviator has touched down in Sydney after a marathon 27,000-kilometre journey from the United Kingdom to Australia.

Beginning on October 1 in England, Tracey Curtis-Taylor, 53, single-handedly piloted the 1942 Boeing Stearman biplane across 23 countries over the course of three months.

She flew across the Mediterranean Sea to Jordan, over the Arabian Desert, across the Gulf of Oman to Pakistan, through India and on to Myanmar, Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia before crossing the Timor Sea and landing in Darwin on January 1.

When she arrived at her final destination on Saturday, she said she was overcome with euphoria.

"I just was so relieved to land, to come to quite complicated airspace into the international airport, I was terrified I'd bring the whole thing to a standstill," she said.

Stephanie emailed me this reply when challenged over her report.

I wrote she "single handedly" flew the plane in my story. She had a documentary crew with her. So yes, she wasn't solo, but she did fly the plane herself, and said her flight was modeled on Amy Johnson's, who as you would know, did fly solo (the only reference to the word "solo" in my piece. So I think my story is accurate.

Single handedly? How did she know that when she failed to see a guy in the front seat?

How hard is it for some one to ask "who is he".

Just waiting for the ABC to get back to me.

[megan]

If you were faced with a sea crossing from East Timor to Darwin over a distance of 390 nm would you carry as a front seat passenger;I did see a map of her flight, though can't find it now, which showed she made landfall and landed at an airport to the west of Darwin, thence made the flight to Darwin. On the map here she suggests Kununurra, and note Darwin doesn't get a mention. What is there to believe?

Tracey Curtis Taylor - Aviatrix, Adventurer, Inspirational Speaker (http://www.birdinabiplane.com/australia/fullsize/)

[Checklist Charlie]

Dili - Kununurra is 471 nm, just a tad further than the 390nm Dili - DN.
I don't believe Kunners is a designated first port of entry for Customs, Immigration and Quarantine purposes either.
Methinks the pretty map is for the consumption of the masses rather than a realistic operational representation of the actual route being followed.

CC

[megan]

Seems she landed in Darwin, then went to Kunners.

[Parson]

Be interesting to see how Vorderman gets on. Is Red 8 still going with her?

[B Fraser]

Technically, I have been taught aerobatics by a former RAF display pilot in a warbird.


Ok it was a lovely old Chipmunk but that type has been used on spy flights to take photos of Soviet army exercises. Does that count ? I don't know of any instances where a Harvard has ever been in harms way but others will be able to comment. For the record, I was solo in my cockpit, he was solo in his. (I was marked as "above average" in my training records but my good friend was probably being extremely generous.)

[piperboy84]

Alright she's a bull****ter, but flying the 90 MPH Steaman across 400 miles of open sea is pretty ballsy and the landing wasn't bad either.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I don't think that anybody suggesting that what she did was trivial - it's being strongly proposed that what she did was significantly less impressive than she is claiming.

G

[Parson]

I'm sure most of us would have a bash (and succeed) if we had the time and the money/sponsorship.

I am much more impressed by Dave Sykes.

[Crash one]

Flying a Stearman over 400nm of water is ballsy yes, sitting in the back behind the owner, builder, instructor is not quite so ballsy. Who put it on the ground? Who poled it all the way there for 4/5 hours?
If I were him and given the choice of what to carry in front of a soppy tart that had already chewed up an aircraft while taxiing, it would be me.
Looks like the biggest ego trip since the rise of Stegosaurus.

[pulse1]

p84, You say:
but flying the 90 MPH Steaman across 400 miles of open sea is pretty ballsy

Yes it is and, judging from some of your posts on this site, I think that some of your flying is pretty ballsy too. But from my own pathetic XC experience I know that it is much easier and less stressfull to do it when accompanied by an experienced pilot with whom you can chat about things that come up even though you are the agreed PIC. To me the essential requirement of being SOLO is being ALONE.

[S-Works]

Not really sure why some are so worked up about this. So she is full of ****, no different from most flying club bars. Methinks a bit of green eyed monster in some cases.

It really does not make one iota of difference to any of our lives, it does give oxygen to her publicity nothing more!!

Such is life..... :)

[Jetblu]

I just cannot believe that a high profile sponsor would have knowingly gone along with this stunt, I really can't.

As for the awards, with what we have now seen, I now suspect that they did know, but just turned a blind eye, otherwise we would have seen some statement by now stating the award/s have been retracted, awaiting for a genuine candidate to come along.

[yellowtriumph]

Can I ask why the pilot flying this aircraft always seems to be sitting in the rear cockpit rather than the front?

I can see that the forward view and towards the ground is quite obscured in either position, but I might have expected the pilot actually flying the plane to be sat in the front seat.

I'm sure there's a reasonable answer.

[S-Works]

Can I ask why the pilot flying this aircraft always seems to be sitting in the rear cockpit rather than the front?

I can see that the forward view and towards the ground is quite obscured in either position, but I might have expected the pilot actually flying the plane to be sat in the front seat.

I'm sure there's a reasonable answer.

Its normal for this aircraft. Its actually a lot easier to fly or more specifically taxi from the rear seat as you are sat further back so when you fish tail it you get a wider and lower view. They are a lovely aircraft to fly, I have a few hours ferrying them around and they always put a smile on my face!!!

[S-Works]

As for the awards, with what we have now seen, I now suspect that they did know, but just turned a blind eye, otherwise we would have seen some statement by now stating the award/s have been retracted, awaiting for a genuine candidate to come along.

Quite right I suspect, lets face it, the publicity machine generated far more positive publicity for the sponsers than a few wingers on a flying forum!!!

We get hoodwinked all the time by the media these days, this is nothing new. Its only the fact that it grates on a few people on a forum that its got any life. The argument that its had loads of responses and views is irrelevant, its actually a small group of posters making comments and the views are just the normal refresh as mostly the same people check in and see whats going out of a bit voyeurism!!

[yellowtriumph]

Its normal for this aircraft. Its actually a lot easier to fly or more specifically taxi from the rear seat as you are sat further back so when you fish tail it you get a wider and lower view. They are a lovely aircraft to fly, I have a few hours ferrying them around and they always put a smile on my face!!!
Thank you.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Also with tandem aeroplanes it's most usual to put the pilot in the seat furthest from the permitted CG range - then the aircraft can be set up for that, and occupancy of the seat closest to the CG range makes little difference to handling.

G

[Flyingmac]

Editor’s note (June 1, 2016): An earlier version of this story suggested this was a solo flight. It has now been updated to clarify Ms Curtis-Taylor was the only pilot to fly the vintage bi-plane, but she had a support team of engineers travelling with her in a separate aircraft, as well as a camera crew, who would sometimes sit in with her
.That's cleared it all up then. Move along.

[Jetblu]

That statement is contrary to the factual evidence seen and heard here, isn't it.

The only thing I can evidently see moving along are the cover-ups to the whole debacle, but that just may be another figment of my imagination. :)

[Danny42C]

Genghis the Engineer (your #232),
...Also with tandem aeroplanes it's most usual to put the pilot in the seat furthest from the permitted CG range - then the aircraft can be set up for that, and occupancy of the seat closest to the CG range makes little difference to handling...
Did 60 hours on them in 1941 at Primary School with the US Army Air Corps in Florida. As you say, the instructor was always in front, the stude behind (dual and solo) for the reason you give.

There was no ASI in the back - we were taught to fly by "attitude" and feel. As hardly any of us studes had been off the ground before, we felt no pain (what you've never had, you never miss). Did us a power of good.

Somewhere recently I asked Stanwell if the (original) Continental radial engine had been replaced by a Wasp Junior with a two-speed prop (looks like the power plant from a Vultee BT-13 trainer). Can you throw any light ?

Danny.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Not a clue I'm afraid - my knowledge here is more general about taildraggers of that era, than specific about the Stearman, which I've never had anything to do with.

G

[Stanwell]

Yes, Danny.
The P&W R985 400-odd hp, 9cyl Wasp Junior has been a common and approved retro-fit .. replacing the original 220hp 7cyl Continental.
A photo on TCT's website shows the Stearman in question wearing what appears to be a Wasp Junior* fitted with a two-speed prop.

We've a Continental-powered Stearman which operates locally down here.
I'd been for a flip in it (just as front-seat pax, I regret to add). The front cockpit in that particular one had just basic instrumentation.
The rear was comprehensively equipped.
ISTR we cruised at around 2500ft at a bit under 90kts.
I took a photo of the respective panels at the time. .. Now, .. it's around here somewhere...
Anyway, I want one!


*EDIT: Just looking at that pic again, I wonder if it could be a Lycoming R-680. Is anybody able to give a steer on that one?
.

[India Four Two]

Anyway, I want one!Me too!. I've done about five hours in a Continental-powered Stearman in NZ. Lovely aircraft - like a Tiger Moth on steroids, but with better ailerons and the luxury of brakes!

Regardless of the controversy surrounding TCT's claims, I have to admire anyone who does seriously long flights in one, particularly in the rear-cockpit, which is subjected to the full downwash of the top wing.

[megan]

On its registration certificate it gives the engine as a W670 series built by Continental.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_R-670

Single engine over water? Many an aviator spends/spent thousands of hours over water, single engine, supporting commercial endeavours. My case off shore oil, and often wondered how good Mr. Lycoming had done his job when looking down as wave tops were whipped into spume by winds at times 60 knots plus.

[Stanwell]

Thanks for your trouble, megan.
The engine pictured on the Stearman on the TCT website isn't a Continental R-670.

At a quick look, I'd originally assumed it to be a Wasp Junior, that being the most common retro-fit.
Looking at the relatively small pic on the website a little more closely, though, it now looks to me to be more like a Lycoming.
The pushrod-tube mounts at the crankcase end would be the clue there, I think.

Anyway, just an interesting diversion. :ok:


BTW, it'd be interesting to hear of your over-water jobs relying on just one of Mr Lycoming's products.
.

[megan]

The accident report from her crash into the R44 says Lycoming R680 piston engine. it'd be interesting to hear of your over-water jobs relying on just one of Mr Lycoming's products1,500 hours in Bass Strait in Bell 205 (UH-1H to military types) plus assorted time, probably 600 hours or so, in Westland Scout, OH-58 and Bell 206.

[Flying Lawyer]

It's a 300hp Lycoming 680 radial.

[Stanwell]

Ah, there we are. Thanks, FL.

[Danny42C]

Thank you all, (Ladies? and) Gentlemen. We seem to have it pretty well sewn up now.

Some tantalising loose ends:

Stanwell (#237) and Flying Lawyer (242),
...I wonder if it could be a Lycoming R-680...
So they managed to screw 300hp out of 680 cu.in., while the old Continenal could only raise 210-240 out of 670 [both Wiki]. Shows what you can do when you try. Must have really pepped the old girl up. Mind you, a 400hp (my "Aircraft Flown" [back of a RAF log] entry is 450, Wiki agrees) would really have made the bird fly ! They would have got aloft in Arizona hot, high, humid and what-the-hell-else with one of those.

and:

and (#240),
...The pushrod-tube mounts at the crankcase end would be the clue there, I think...
They were an integral part of take-off procedure for us (Full description on "Pilot's Brevet", p.117, #2331).


India Four Two (#238),
...like a Tiger Moth on steroids...
About the finest descriptio of a Stearman you could wish for.
...in the rear-cockpit, which is subjected to the full downwash of the top wing...
In a late Florida summer, you'd be glad of it !

megan (#241)
... Quote:
it'd be interesting to hear of your over-water jobs relying on just one of Mr Lycoming's products...
When I were a little lad, Charles Lindbergh managed about 3,000 miles overwater in one hop in a Ryan "Spirit of St.Louis". (Powerplant: 1 × Wright Whirlwind J-5C Single blade Standard Steel Propeller, 223 hp 166 kW - Wiki). Of course, Alcock & Brown had crossed the pond eight years before, but they had two donks.

Reverting to the Matter in Hand, I will only say that solo is solo is solo. and everyone in aviation knows what it means.

Danny.

[9 lives]

If I were Ewald Gritsch, I'd be very happy to declare that TCT was "solo" in the Stearman when the R44 was shredded!

Having provided seaplane training a few days ago, and then recommending an endorsement for my student, I reminded myself that the Canadian words are "as the sole occupant of the aircraft". Thus, I got out on the beach to send my student solo for his required five solo five takeoff and landings.

[Mike Flynn]

I have been sitting on a letter that was leaked to me some months ago but I have yet to publish.

Some interesting developments coming up.

Watch this space:ok:

If I can achieve anything by my posts it will be to promote the likes of this genuine person and his compatriots.

http://kr2worldtour.********.co.uk/

Good luck and best wishes Colin Hales and Dave Sykes.
http://www.soloflightglobal.com/

[Flying Binghi]

She pranged in a nice flat open paddock.:confused:

Suppose if yer gonna have a prang then the Stearman is the machine to do it in.




.

[Bronx]

Jay Sata

I have been sitting on a letter that was leaked to me some months ago but I have yet to publish.

So why don't you post a copy here?

Put up or shut up.

[ak7274]

Perhaps the letter may provoke a legal reaction until Jay can get confirmation of the contents. I am on neither side here, but it's about time some people either grow up or grow a pair. I am sure there has been contact with the media and aviation people over this and maybe a nudge for a look into it may be in order.
I am uncomfortable with character assassination as, as often as not it is undeserved, but equally am unhappy with people receiving accolades for which they haven't fully earned.
This has now been done to death on the forums.
Just my point of view.

Alan

[megan]

The ABC in Australia have seen fit to amend a story they didEditor’s note (June 1, 2016): An earlier version of this story suggested this was a solo flight. It has now been updated to clarify Ms Curtis-Taylor was the only pilot to fly the vintage bi-plane, but she had a support team of engineers travelling with her in a separate aircraft, as well as a camera crew, who would sometimes sit in with her.

Adventurer Tracey Curtis-Taylor's England-to-Australia flight a homage to aviation pioneer Amy Johnson - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-02/female-solo-flight-a-homage-to-aviation-pioneer-amy-johnson/7064324)

All the photos seem to have Ewald Gritsch sitting in front, so I guess he must be multi skilling, and taken on the job of camera man.

Solo: Any performance or endeavour accomplished by a single individual, such as an aeroplane flight in which the pilot is unaccompanied.

[Cazalet33]

If Ewald Gritsch was aboard during both of her last two prangs, then perhaps she might chose another co-pilot for her next "solo" jolly. The bint clearly needs some adult supervision went she flies "solo", just as Prince Charles did.

As the owner of NameCo at Lloyds and having a fair bit of family dosh pledged as Funds At Lloyds, some of which is risked with syndicates which write aviation risk, I hope her underwriters take a careful look at her safety record as well as that of her next supervisor before writing an insurance policy which risks any of my family's money.

Where this woman excels, just like another mediocre wumman pilot Amelia Earhart, is in having a brilliant publicity machine and a good aeroplane (pre-crash, anyway).

[Mike Flynn]

How does the insurance work on a trip like this Cazalet33.

Would it be one quote for the UK Sydney trip and another from a US underwriting pool for the trans America journey?

Do they restrict occupancy of the aircraft to named people?

In the case of the recent Arizona accident how would the loss adjusters deal with it?

The cheapest repair would be in the USA but Curtis Taylor said they plan to ship it back to Hungary.

I imagine they will agree a cash payout and 3G keep the wreck.

[Cazalet33]

As a 'name' at Lloyds (which is a market, not an insurer btw) the only risk assessment I do is choosing which syndicates to back with my risk capital. I'm not involved in the risk assessment part of risking my capital on individual insured risks. Those assessments are made by the man in the booth who actually writes the insurance. As a name I have two barriers of agency (Member's Agent and Managing Agent) between me and the writing of the risk.

In general, an insurer will look at the probability that an insured pilot will do something bloody silly. A pilot who has done something bloody silly may or may not do something bloody silly again, but such a pilot who does something bloody silly again is clearly at a greatly elevated risk of doing it again and again. Amelia Earhart is a classic example of that. She was a low to average pilot and a crap navigator, with a history of multiple pilot-induced accidents.

Almost any risk is insurable, if you have a backer with enough dosh pay the premium or underwrite the risk. Crash Tracey seems to have enough well-heeled admirers to financially enable her to go on to her next crash. Good luck to her and to them!

[Mike Flynn]

Thanks for that.

When I lived in Australia a few decades ago my aircraft was insured via the Australian Aviation Pool.

I mention this because certificate clearly broke down the various parties and their risk in percentage terms.

I know it still the case that light aircraft insurance is split in this way but I have never had a UK insurance certificate with the names of those taking the exposure listed on the back.

Given the couple of high profile ex warbird accidents in the UK last year I am surprised the income from GA is worth the risk.

The public liability is the gotcha?

In the case of TCT two accidents in around nine months does not look good.

You failed to answer my other question.

With the aircraft no doubt being assessed as a total write off who decides on the outcome? Repair in the USA or write it off and the insurers keep the wreck and sell it back to 3G.

The airframe has more value to Artemis than a punter in the USA?

TCT states in the post crash interview there were plans to ship it rebuild it and have it at Farnborough this year.

To me it looks like a new fuselage,wings and the shockloaded engine rebuilt.

Not a five minute job.

Or will it just be like Triggers brush with new heads and handles:ok:

[Cazalet33]

With the aircraft no doubt being assessed as a total write off who decides on the outcome?

The writer of the "write off" decides the outcome. That's the nature of such things. It is, of course, negotiable between the insurer and the insured.

In some cases the wreckage in a hull insurance case has a positive value. In other cases the wreckage has a negative residual value due to the cost of recovery. That balance is what determines who gets to 'keep the kids'.

If some idiot taxys a 747's wing into an airport building, the aircraft may be beyond economical repair, but the wreckage of the airframe may contain many hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of salvageable parts. That value is taken into account in the final settlement.

In the case of Crash Tracey's most recent cockup, it's entirely likely that the close-out of the "write off" has resulted in her side getting to keep the debris.

[Mike Flynn]

The Honourable Company of Air Pilots find themselves in a difficult position.

They issued this press statement to a journalist friend of mine who has been working on the story.

The Honourable Company of Air Pilots has awarded Tracey Curtis Taylor The Master’s Medal for organising an aviation expedition from the UK to Australia, retracing the route flown by Amy Johnson as a tribute to her, which formed part of a wider promotional endeavour to encourage females into aviation. There was one specific, principal aim in mind: to promote aviation to many thousands of youngsters, especially women, across the globe for whom flying is a distant, even unknown or seemingly unachievable activity. This is particularly relevant when an estimated 400,000 new commercial pilots are needed worldwide in the next twenty years to meet anticipated growth. The Master’s award recognises Tracey Curtis-Taylor’s work in raising awareness of science and technology in general, and aviation in particular, amongst young women across the world”.

However I have seen the original letter from the HCAP.
http://s19.postimg.org/i1aoh5xlu/Master_Medal_Tracey_Curtis_Taylor_001.jpg

Surely Ewald deserved to share it?

He admitted today in a 20 minute recorded interview with a UK tabloid journalist that "I was in the aircraft for most of the two expeditions"

If the HCAP disagree with the quote above I am happy to provide proof.

Chris Ford at the HCAP has some questions to answer.

[Victorian]

Returning to an earlier post (Sorry, I'm late to this thread) I was once lent an original typed manuscript of an unpublished book of the same or similar title. I don't know if the author is the same chap referred to here.

One memorable passage which seems to be missing from the link given in this thread concerned taking off across the width of a major runway due to the wind, a manoeuvre that made the author somewhat unpopular in one of the en-route countries.

Like I say, I don't know if it's the same chap and if it is, I hope he won't mind my recalling this....

[Mike Flynn]

As an update Ewald Gritsch has admitted today ,to a London based journalist working on the story for UK national newspaper ,that he "was on board for most of the two trips" .

Well it is nice to know at last he is the man here.
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/adventurer-tracey-curtistaylor-arrives-in-her-vintage-opencockpit-picture-id504089984

The man in all those pictures.

The South Africa to UK 'Aviatrix' journey that the LAA gave the Bill Woodham navigation award to her and the UK to Australia 'solo' trip.

He claims however he did "not do any of the flying."

He has not said he did not do any navigation or radio work.

If I had to be with anyone occupying the front seat of the Spirit of Artemis it would be with the guy who built it and is a flying instructor.

Can we honestly believe he would sit in the front of an aircraft ,built by him and owned by his company 3G Aviation, and just be a passive passenger?
FAA Registry - Aircraft - N-Number Inquiry (http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=56200)

In a 20 minute recorded conversation Gritsch has admitted to the journalist covering the story that he was on board but says "not doing the flying" on both trips.

(The newspaper concerned are using my comparison of a rally driver in a competitive situation having a navigator and engineer on board.)

As I understand it Steve Slater of the LAA sticks by their award.

I feel sorry for runner up.

Steve is also a freeman of the HCAP who are planning to award Tracey Curtis Taylor
the Masters Medal.

I rest my case.

[kghjfg]

Does Ewald rent it to anybody or only TCT ?

I'm just thinking, I might contact him, I fancy some solo adventures in a Stearman, on my own, alone, with him sitting in the front.

[Mike Flynn]

I guess you are being sarcastic but this has been one of the most amazing stories I have ever encountered.

Myself and Sam Rutherford have spent five months trying to reveal the truth.

The other key figures in UK general aviation have let us down.

The LAA and the Honourable Company of Air Pilots giving awards without checking facts.

Also Boeing,Artemis,the Royal Navy charity,Inmarsat etc.

All have declined to address the sham flights of Ewald Gritsch and Tracey Curtis Taylor.

I find it sad in this modern world we live in the movers and shakers can still attempt to achieve big headlines and 'awards' for little more than a reality tv programme.

The problem I really have is dealing with lies.

So here is the letter...From the Master of the Honourable Company of Air Pilots

I am delighted to inform you that you have been awarded the (Honourable Company's) Master's Medal for 2016.
The Terms of Reference for this award are:
"Awarded to any person in aviation for an act or other achievement in aviation considered worthy of the Medal, as soon as the facts of the event are clear"
The award is in recognition of the great feat of aviation you have completed. Throughout your flight from the UK to Australia during which, by all accounts, you overcame many unforeseen obstacles in very testing conditions, displayed stoic endurance, perseverance and commendable airmanship, you demonstrated the ethos and spirit of adventure which many aviators strive for throughout their careers. I am so very pleased that you, as an Upper Freemen of our Company, have safely achieved this feat which is deservedly worthy of the award.

[Stanwell]

You'll have to excuse me, I think I'm going to be sick ... :yuk:

[Mike Flynn]

Well here it is

The long awaited letter from the Master of the Honourable Company Of Air Pilots.

I have deleted the address but it is on public record here https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07763562

Ewald Gritsch has admitted today in a 20 minute recorded interview with a UK tabloid journalist that he was with her in "most" of the South Africa and UK to Sydney expeditions. He did say "I was not flying the aircraft" but given he built it,owns it and is a flight instructor he must have played a part in monitoring the engine and navigation.

I have to say this entire saga is a sorry reflection on GA. Toys and gongs for the wealthy.

Before you read the letter below please read this press release.

Peter Benn
Master, The Honourable Company of Air Pilots.

"The Honourable Company of Air Pilots has awarded Tracey Curtis Taylor The Master’s Medal for organising an aviation expedition from the UK to Australia, retracing the route flown by Amy Johnson as a tribute to her, which formed part of a wider promotional endeavour to encourage females into aviation. There was one specific, principal aim in mind: to promote aviation to many thousands of youngsters, especially women, across the globe for whom flying is a distant, even unknown or seemingly unachievable activity. This is particularly relevant when an estimated 400,000 new commercial pilots are needed worldwide in the next twenty years to meet anticipated growth. The Master’s award recognises Tracey Curtis-Taylor’s work in raising awareness of science and technology in general, and aviation in particular, amongst young women across the world”.

Now read this...

[Flying Lawyer]

Jay SataHe (Ewald Gritsch) claims however he did "not do any of the flying."For those of a certain age, the famous retort by Mandy Rice-Davies might spring to mind.

Steve (Slater) is also a freeman of the HCAPSteve Slater is a Liveryman of the Air Pilots. (As are several hundred other people.)
To the best of my knowledge and belief, he played no part whatsoever in the decision to award TCT a Master's Medal.
kghjfg - I guess you are being sarcastic As I read it, he/she was agreeing with you, and did so in an amusing way.

-------------

Just in case anyone doesn't notice the change of names -

The current Master of the Air Pilots, Capt Peter Benn, did not write the "great feat of aviation" (sic) / "ethos and spirit of adventure which many aviators strive for throughout their careers" (sic) letter. That was written by his predecessor.

It sometimes happens that a Master who awards a Medal has completed his/her year of office before it can be presented. When that happens, as here, the task of presenting it falls to the following Master.


NB:
I merely state the facts.
I intentionally make no comment about them.

[Mike Flynn]

The question is where do we go from here?

I am not party to the status of the various members of the HCAP.

If Steve Slater is happy his organisation wants to give a navigation award to a dubious couple using GPS in a highly sponsored reality tv show who are we mere plebs to argue? Someone recently said to me the LAA seem obsessed with bending wood!

Philip Whiteman,Dave Calderwood and Ian Seager have avoided this topic.
So we must assume they think it is OK to cheat?

Sqn Ldr Chris Ford wrote the letter below( I am not impressed by anyone who uses titles like that. My youngest son is a Royal Navy Lt and is only 26)


He might want to revisit that letter.

The HCAP might like to check some facts.If lying and cheating is the way women in aviation is promoted then count me out.

Now let us get down to the basics.

TCT has refused point blank to address any questions from various news organisations.

I have a problem not talking about my flying exploits especially after a few beers.

Why would anyone having done that trip not want to bore the pants of everyone?

Ewald has confessed he was on board for "most" of the trips so confirming
Sam Rutherford's allegations.

I just hope the epilogue to this sorry saga is the truth prevails and genuine candidates who really want to 'emulate' historic figures do it in an honest and genuine way.

[kghjfg]

The thing is, we do all know, the organisations know, the editors know, the TV people know, TCT knows, Ewald knows.

What you are forgetting is that some people prefer money to integrity. Some people prefer fame to integrity.

Some people have to be cautious, even if they do have some integrity. I bet TCT has a very big legal team, if you owned a magazine, would you go up against it? Risk your livelihood and that of others?

I remember when Lewis Hamilton won British Sports Personality thingy, I pointed out to the BBC he was no longer British, he emigrated for tax purposes, I don't think he should be allowed to use the Union flag when he wins either.

Anyway, back to Ewald, he prefers money to integrity, TCT prefers fame and money to integrity.

They are not alone in these views, they never have been, and they never will be. Neither would be a friend of mine. Life is too short to be obsessed about people we cannot change. It's not that they are lying, that's their personalities, you cannot change their personalities. This isn't a nice upstanding member of the community lying, which would distress me.

Of course they sleep well, they are what they are, from the root, and so they do not even think they have done anything wrong.

The funny thing is it is you that is keeping their story alive, the rest of the world is saying "Tracy who?". Ewald has made his money. Was Sam involved btw, was he paid ? Did he keep the money ?

They lied, we all know that, if we ever meet anyone who gets it wrong, we'll correct them. If I meet TCT I'll be polite, otherwise it will reflect on me.

You can only control your own integrity in this life, not that of others.

HCAP obviously know of the deceit. Does anyone believe they are actually honourable ? Do they even ? They'll do nothing, TCT will collect her award. Sad isn't it.

Another one to strike from the "integrity" list. Shame that they are not fussed about integrity with a name like that. Just goes to show what these people are actually like I suppose.

[Stanwell]

^^^
One of the best posts I've seen in a while. :D

[abgd]

Jay:

You posted a letter from someone who knew Tracy well, but perhaps too well to have a completely objective viewpoint. This influences, to some extent, how I interpret it.

Sam's motivation is clearly stated, and understandable.

Much as the facts/links you've posted seem to support your case, I find it disconcerting to watch such a sustained campaign from someone who is anonymous to me and whose motivations are opaque, at least to me. It seems like watching a fight where one person has a arm tied behind his back. I am guessing you have some kind of real-life connection to TCT? Can I suggest it would be only fair to state what it is, and perhaps who you are, unless you have a very good reason not to.

I find myself more sympathetic to TCT's case as a result of this, than I might otherwise be.

[Cows getting bigger]

Nice redaction of the HCAP letter. Not.

[piperboy84]

I find myself more sympathetic to TCT's case as a result of this, than I might otherwise be.

Yeap, me too. Time to spill the beans Jay, or at least tell us your motivation. I have trouble seeing why someone would get so worked up about an old toffy bird telling porky pies about her sporting exploits.

[9 lives]

It looks like the "facts of the event" have become more clear than those known at the time the letter was written. Oh well... perhaps it will encourage the organization to press for more complete information before making their determination.

We need to keep things in context though; TCT did not murder anyone, she just allowed very fuzzy truth to be perpetuated, presumably for her own aggrandizement. Sad, and of low honour, but worthy of a national inquiry? Not in my opinion....

Time to move on...

[S-Works]

So when is Jay Sata going to share with us his personal grievance that is causing him to run this vigilante campaign?

I am also stunned that Prune are allowing him to post the contents of a private letter to which he does not have copyright to in a public forum showing his victims address unchecked........

We all think she is a bull****ter, but allowing a vigilante campaign to be run is unacceptable.

[Pilot DAR]

Posters, we can't have personal/private information presented here. This is a discussion group, we are not a persecution organization. The broad spectrum of information on this topic seems to have been presented and well commented - good discussion. New information may be posted, if it does not invade privacy, nor perpetuate a very personal attack. Perhaps posters would like to link to any published media articles about this venture, and discuss that content. Let's let another venue be investigator/accuser if that needs to happen. I think the point has been made.

[flybymike]

For some strange reason I agree with Bose-x.

[Mike Flynn]

I am sorry if I’ve annoyed people, its just something I feel very strongly about (also when I think of others who did much more but received much less).

I have never met TCT or have any desire to.

Just wanted to set the record straight which became more of a mission as it was clear how many people think its okay or at least cant be bothered to do anything about it.

[Genghis the Engineer]

No we don't think it's okay Jay, just we all recognise that there are far bigger issues in the world to worry about. Certainly to this extent.

G

[S-Works]

Just wanted to set the record straight which became more of a mission as it was clear how many people think its okay or at least cant be bothered to do anything about it.

Understandable, but once it became a kangaroo court it lost all credibility.

[piperboy84]

Jay, you have not annoyed me, but you do have me wondering. Are you sure all this haranguing is just a "strong feeling"? and not anything to do with the perceived wealth, social standing or perhaps pedigree of the subject in question.

[Flying Lawyer]

bose-xSo when is Jay Sata going to share with us his personal grievance that is causing him to run this vigilante campaign?

I have disagreed strongly with some of Jay Sata's allegations/assertions in the various TCT threads in this forum and have said so in very forceful terms on occasions.

However, I have no more reason to believe Jay Sata has a personal grievance against TCT than to believe you are motivated by a personal grievance against him when you have criticised him, chosen to accuse him of a "vigilante campaign" and persistently tried to silence him.

[S-Works]

However, I have no more reason to believe Jay Sata has a personal grievance against TCT than to believe you are motivated by a personal grievance against him when you have criticised him, chosen to accuse him of a "vigilante campaign" and persistently tried to silence him.

Nope, no personal grievance at all. But a kangaroo court held in the absence of the accused does not sit well with me at all. Posting private correspondence that shows the accused private details on a public forum does not sit well with me either. Whatever we think of the woman we do not have the right invade her privacy or stir up internet hate campaigns. This was clearly an attempt to create an internet "pile on" and that also does not sit well with me. I am all for fair and even discussion on the subject and am not a fan of her actions but neither have I tried to silence "him" just tried to stop things getting out of hand.

Lets say I don't like you FL and don't like the way you have handled a case, do you think I have the right to post private correspondence showing your home address on an anonymous internet forum?

By all means discuss whats in the public domain but do it without attempting to stir up hatred. We should be able to discuss things in a civilised manner.

However at the end of the day, I still think who cares if she is a bull****ter, walk into any flying club bar and the air is thick with it, this is just one more case of a pilot begging themselves up on a fragile truth for their own sense of self. I find it sad more than anything else and don't think it even deserves oxygen.

I do like your attempt at role reversal though, ever considered becoming a lawyer..... ;)

[Flying Lawyer]

I stand by what I said.

I would agree with some of what you say if the person concerned was someone who had not put themselves in the public domain and did not court publicity.

[Cows getting bigger]

To me, the word 'forum' reminds me of school debating societies, parish council meetings etc; somewhere ideas and views can be exchanged. It doesn't bring images of lynch mobs.

[S-Works]

I would agree with some of what you say if the person concerned was someone who had not put themselves in the public domain and did not court publicity.

So you think it perfectly acceptable to post private correspondence showing personal details on a public forum? Now you are a lawyer? Give us your legal opinion on that, I am genuinely interested.

[Flying Lawyer]

bose-x

I do not give opinions about legal matters except in very restricted circumstances which I consider to be appropriate.

As a statement of fact, not legal opinion, the letter was sent to the Registered office address of 'BIRD IN A BIPLANE LIMITED'.

Feel free to contact Companies House suggesting that it removes the Registered office address of that company from its official website.
I'd be "genuinely interested" to know their response.

[Jetblu]

bose-x

Generally, I agree with everything that you have to say. I normally even support your views. Here, on this, I do not, and I will tell you why...

If this was 'bar chatter' and the bird came along telling us that she did a solo flight and we knew better, we would tell her where to go and laugh at her. That scenario is not applicable here. She has gone public, taken undeserved awards and making money with speeches. Jay, has just gone public here and I am not aware that his efforts are for financial reward.

The woman has [in my opinion] stick her finger up to those in the know and blatantly mis-sold the story for a financial benefit. As I said on the other thread, deceit is deceit whichever way you want to spell it.

I feel for Jay in a way. Everyone has their own 'pet hates' and this is obviously his. I don't like Songs of Praise but I wouldn't dare write to the BBC and ask them to ditch it. I simply turn the channel to something of my own taste. Funnily enough, the people that were trying to shut Jay/Old Pilot up have decided to follow him here, so i do concur with the mob mentality with you on that one.

I suspect, and I don't know, that Jay thought by flagging up the issue on the forums something would get done by putting the wrong back to right.
The principle is right and just. He's come to an aviation forum regarding an aviation issue hoping that someone who needs to see it will, so you can follow his logical concept to that point.



The danger with what she has done, is evident here, and some people will not be gagged for what they believe in. Take Hillsborough as a general example.

I suspect, and I could be wrong, but many flying instructors are also hoping that TCT's promotion of introducing more female pilots could be a money spinner for them too. Who knows ;)

[Jetblu]

I wasn't aware that the letter had been stolen. I know Jay has her address but I cannot believe for one minute that he has broken in.

I suspect that a copy has been passed to him by someone.


For that matter, I cannot see the letter being marked as private and confidential either.

EDIT The danger is bose, she wants to live by the sword, but that has 2 blades.

Where is she anyway?

[Stanwell]

I'm sorry, bose-x, I can't agree with your "one individual" assertion.

There were many of us on this forum who'd noted and commented on TCT's posturing and deceitful claims long before JS came along with his additional material.
While some out there might find it perfectly acceptable to use such means for self-aggrandisement and monetary gain, I'm afraid that many of us within the aviation industry (both current and former), certainly do not.

For someone to blatantly try to position themself, by devious means, among the aviation greats is not just unacceptable, but reprehensible.
.

[DaveW]

Funnily enough, the people that were trying to shut Jay/Old Pilot up have decided to follow him here, so i do concur with the mob mentality with you on that one.

Given that I was fairly robust - indeed, I used the very words "Shut Up" - to Jay Sata (in what was fairly obviously his 'Old Pilot' persona) on another forum, I suspect you may be thinking of people including me here. Not least since I have also posted on this thread. (I didn't "follow" - I've been here a while).

I think it only appropriate to point out that anybody looking at that Flyer forum will be aware that I certainly was not closing down the point being made. Neither, in fact, was anybody else including Ian S - as evidenced by the fact that posts have not been deleted, only closed. They are still all available to view.

The objection, rather, was that the SAME point, without any further information or detail other than the basic complaint itself, was being made over and over again in newly created threads in a short period of time and was getting extremely boring and pointlessly repetitive.

It is pointless behaviour IMO, since the basic complaint appears valid as I have said several times elsewhere; TC-T's claims seem disingenuous at best. However, a complaint only needs to be made once and then left until further information comes to light.

This thread, eventually (not the case when it was begun), now does perhaps have more information (and I don't mean dubiously copied correspondence - I mean apparent firm info from NZ and elsewhere).

The point is fairly simple: Provide supportable information and build up a case. Saying the same thing 10 times doesn't mean you have 10 times more evidence; it just serves to annoy people.

Also, rumour and innuendo isn't evidence, and self-defeatingly simply serves to obscure any actual relevant evidence that you may have.

So, one last time: I'd say there likely is a moral case to be made: A repetitive scattergun witch-hunt like this one isn't the way to prosecute it.

[Jetblu]

Everybody has their own style of execution, you have yours, I have mine, Jay has his and so on.

If he decides to duplicate his posts ten times, that is a matter for him, not us.
He may have dementia for all we know, I doubt it, but possible. On the other hand, bringing your pet squirrel along as support to get your message across may be something a bit more serious than dementia. but you did, and as far as I can see, the happy clappy brigade joined in.

Here, it is different, we are having a discussion and airing our views about a serious GA deception. It is hoped that juniors are not following this thread and believing that deceit is ok and they could/might just get away with it if they have a pair.

[DaveW]

If he decides to duplicate his posts ten times, that is a matter for him, not us.

I strongly disagree with this.

A forum is not a playground solely for the posters - it is at least as much, and arguably more due to relative numbers if nothing else, for the readers too.

Posting duplicates which detract from a forum's ambience and value is typically considered as bad as spamming - I'd suggest it is spamming - and Internet etiquette frowns on that for good reason.

(And to no-one's surprise, I have no squirrel)

[Jetblu]

Disagree as much as you like, you are entitled to your own opinion as much as I am to mine, so probably best to agree to disagree on that one.

In the meantime, I look forward to receiving Jay's potentially duplicating posts and having my memory refreshed to save me from keep scrolling back.
If it's not new news, I will simply ignore. Nothing hard in that, is there.

[canopener]

At least TCT's re-enactment of AJ's flight was accurate in some respects.
Quote from the "MALAY MAIL" online 8/6/16.

Q: Is your journey today easier or more difficult compared with Amy Johnson’s in 1930?
A: Amy basically crashed her way to Australia as she was trying to beat a world record. (She took 19 days, didn’t succeed at bettering Bert Hinkler’s record of 16 days). She had no radio, no restrictions, no air space to contend with.

Unfortunately this quote from the "3G CLASSIC AVIATION" website is a gross exaggeration.

In 2013, 85 years later, Tracey Curtis-Taylor, a pilot with vast experience flying historic airplanes all over the planet and moreover one of the Shuttleworth Collection display pilots, will recreate this flight in a specially restored Stearman biplane.

This woman is delusional and perhaps should be pitied?

[Heliport]

Dave W


IMHO it should be left to the moderators to decide what should or should not be permitted.

If you think a thread is boring/repetitive, don't bother reading it.