Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads) [Archive] - Page 12

Mike Flynn

27th Nov 2016, 19:40

Being one of the primary players in this thread I welcome Terry Holloway's input.

Just google Terry Holloway pilot and you will see he has made a serious contribution to aviation especially for the Air Cadets.

He certainly warrants a wiki article for his career and achievments as does Barry Tempest

In Answer to pilotmikes post and Terry Holloways allegation.
Terry Holloway claims that:
Quote:
The truth has been out for ages but as prosecutor, judge and jury he [Mike Flynn] is intent - for whatever reason - in totally destroying her life and reputation.

Not so Terry.
All I have ever done is post what is out there on the internet and with links.

As a retired journalist,broadcaster and private pilot I became interested in the TCT story halfway through her voyage to Australia.Newspaper reports of a solo flight did not match the many pictures of two people on board.

This was not a private flight but a highly funded PR exercise to promote Artemis, Boeing and TCT. As such the media believed the story because of those two high value corporate names. Indeed Boeing issued a press release when she was in the Middle East stating it was a solo trip.
http://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingdotcom/media/dubai2015/pdf/releases_local/FinalEngStearmanflight_UAEPressRelease.pdf

Even an average journalist checks facts.

pilotmike pretty much sums up the charade

From the abundant evidence, T C--T has already totally destroyed any possible good reputation she might once have had, all by herself, without any assistance from Mike Flynn or anyone else.

If she chooses to continue the charade with more lies, deceipt, cover-ups and backtracking, whilst blaming others and refusing to accept any blame in orchestrating her downfall, to the extent that it also ruins her life - as Terry Holloway suggests - that is entirely in her hands.

100 % correct pilotmike.

Tracey continues to put her foot in it with comments such those in the recent Times story.

She admits she could have done more to correct misleading reports that made liberal use of the phrase “flying solo”.

“I wish we’d sorted that misreporting out but I can’t do everything all of the time,” she said.
Bird in a Biplane swoops on claims she didn?t fly solo | News | The Times & The Sunday Times (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bird-in-a-biplane-swoops-on-claims-she-didn-t-fly-solo-k6pgp2crk)

Spool back Tracey and check what you said on video at Herne Bay.
Don't blame anyone for your words claiming solo flight.

Furth down that Times report we have this.

She estimates she was alone in the aircraft for about 10 per cent of the time, with guest passengers for 20 per cent and with Ewald Gritsch, her Austrian engineer, for the rest.

“When we’re filming, flying low over places like the Bagan temples in Burma, it was Ewald’s job to look out for hazards, wires, cables, cell towers, temples. I was the one flying the plane.”

So for 90% of the time she was not alone or solo as we say in flying circles?

For any fixed wing VFR private pilot to fly so low they need someone to "look out for wires,cables,cell towers and temples while "flying the plane" suggests pure and absolute recklessness.

The whole Bird in Biplane story would be long forgotten had it not been for the plethora of awards she has been showered with.

Saab Dastard

27th Nov 2016, 19:49

At the request of some long-standing contributor's to this thread, I have changed "Terry Holloway's" thread ban from permanent to 3 days, to allow a suitable period for reflection before re-entering the discussion.

Continued insults will result in posts being removed.

I re-iterate that this thread remains open for new information - this applies to ALL contributors. In particular, responses to Jonzarno's questions and any factual information on the outreach program.

SD

Mike Flynn

27th Nov 2016, 20:08

This might seem strange but I am now posting the below in defence of Terry Holloway.

Terry has done a lot for GA over his career as can be seen from this.

Terry Holloway was born on 5th January 1945 and joined No 424 (Southampton) Squadron of the Air Training Corps in 1959. As an air cadet, he flew solo in a T31 glider at the Voluntary Gliding School at Christchurch in 1961. The following year, he joined the Royal Air Force as a Halton apprentice and continued his gliding with the Windrushers Gliding Club at RAF Bicester, which subsequently became the RAF Gliding & Soaring Association Centre. He has flown over 3,000 hours in gliders, and qualified as a full category British Gliding Association Gliding Instructor and a Motor Glider Instructor. Terry developed considerable expertise in mountain gliding in the Alps, and led the first Royal Air Force gliding expedition which flew over the Andes from Chile into Argentina in 1996.

Prior to his retirement from the Royal Air Force, Terry was a Vice-Chairman of the RAF Gliding & Soaring Association (RAFGSA) with particular responsibility for safety and operational matters. On his retirement from the RAF, he was made a Life Member of the RAFGSA.

Terry gained his Private Pilot’s Licence at the Luton Flying Club in 1963 having first achieved a “C” gliding certificate. He learned to fly on Austers soloing in 3 hrs 25 minutes and, subsequently purchased a share in a Tiger Moth. Since then, he has flown over 100 types of light aircraft and has been involved in glider towing, parachute dropping, air to air photography, air to ground photography as well as recreational and business flying. He has completed a number of long distance flights in light aircraft including to the North of Norway and the Mediterranean. In 2000, he flew a Piper Aztec from England to the United States down the East coast, across the mid West and up the West coast to Seattle. He has maintained a keen interest in vintage aircraft having flown and operated a de Havilland 87b Hornet Moth and Tiger Moths over a number of years.

He holds a Civil Aviation Authority Display Authorisation, is a highly accomplished formation pilot and has been a regular performer at flying displays throughout the UK. Terry flies on British and American pilots Licences with multi-engined and Instrument ratings, and regularly flies his Company’s PA27 Aztec, and a variety of light aircraft. He has amassed in excess of 5,500 hours in powered aircraft which brings his total flying experience to more than 8500 hours, in 193 different aircraft and glider types.

Tay Cough

27th Nov 2016, 20:37

I didn't realise TH had been banned. I think that's unfortunate.

As the person who questioned the poster's credentials initially, it has become apparent that he is exactly who he says he is. For doubting, I apologise but it is an anonymous forum of course, so I plead internet...

I have met TH on a professional basis (no details other than to say nearby sandpit) in the past and he is a very pleasant and impressive individual. His background speaks for itself. I think his opinion on this subject is important, given his role with Marshalls.

While I appreciate Gp Capt Holloway has a corporate responsibility both to Marshalls and to the Air League, I am concerned that while there is an acknowledgment of the issues, the pachyderm in the room has been overlooked, seemingly deliberately.

The evidence shows that is absolutely clear and without doubt that there has been some embellishment of certain achievements. Awards have been given on the basis of those stated achievements and have subsequently either been rescinded or "adjusted" to fit the corrected facts.

What has not changed is the fact that there is recorded and published evidence of an individual claiming credit for achievements which have not actually occurred for which awards have been conferred. I hesitate to use the word "solo" really but within the aviation world, it has significant connotations. In short, it means "the sole person on board".

Sir, you have genuinely flown solo on a route where I will routinely carry three pilots - you know exactly what I mean.

Personally, I won't lose much sleep over an individual claiming solo or otherwise. What I have a huge issue with is otherwise hugely reputable and responsible organisations such as HCAP and the Air League knowingly choosing to continue to associate themselves with something which amounts to a level of deception. Get a grip, ladies and gentlemen.

I hope Group Captain Holloway chooses to continue to post.

Kind regards,

Armchair Pilot (14000 hours, airline captain, display pilot, B&Q and Bar)

Saab Dastard

27th Nov 2016, 20:57

I didn't realise TH had been banned. I think that's unfortunate.

Please can you read what I have stated?

Following intercession on his behalf by others, Terry now has a 3-day thread ban to give him and this thread a chance to move away from the hamsterwheel it had become, and for him to reflect on his choice of language in a number of his posts.

Hopefully this period can be used to pull together and present some new information.

SD

Art E. Fischler-Reisen

27th Nov 2016, 21:38

I have it on good authority that at least one member of HCAP resigned over the Master's Award. The false solo claims were not the main issue. However, self confessed claims about the apparently unprofessional way in which the flight was conducted were.

Mike Flynn

27th Nov 2016, 21:44

One question I want to ask Group Captain Terry Holloway is how he ,as a retired RAF officer,
views her wearing a WW2 Pilot Brevet

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

27th Nov 2016, 23:30

One question I want to ask Group Captain Terry Holloway is how he ,as a retired RAF officer,
views her wearing a WW2 Pilot Brevet
This article may be worth reading Jay Calls for imposters who wear ?fake military medals? to be thrown in jail - The News (http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/defence/calls-for-imposters-who-wear-fake-military-medals-to-be-thrown-in-jail-1-7690688)

I have just e-mailed Miles O'Leary and Tom Cotterill (both are journalists at Portsmouth Press) with an update on the wings side of things. They are also aware that an FOI has been submitted to Portsmouth Uni. If folk won't offer the truth then perhaps a little "official" pressure might make them see sense.

The Bill can be fund here: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201617/cmselect/cmdfence/658/65802.htm

I have also written to Gareth Johnson MP appraising him of the situation viz TCT and those wings.

9 lives

28th Nov 2016, 04:47

There has been frequent reference to outreach in the information attributed to TCT. It appears though, that the true theme of outreach may not have significantly reached those who would most benefit from the effort. Would TCT like to provide some more detail as to the success and outcome of her outreach efforts? Perhaps those of us who are unhappy with some misrepresentation, might find some balance in seeing a positive outcome from outreach efforts.

I am pleased to think that young aviation minded people have been the recipients of worthy, truthful mentoring, which realistically presents piloting with honour. TCT seems able to present numbers about how trips went, can she offer us numbers as to the programs presented, young people reached, and maybe flown? What future extensions of TCT's efforts carry forward from her work? Scholarships? Return visits?

clareprop

28th Nov 2016, 05:23

G-KEST
In ending I would point out that, I understand from others, TC-T is related to the Marshall family through her grandmother who was sister to the late Sir Arthur Marshall, the founder of the Marshall Group and a renowned aviator.

I think the connection is as follows:

Below is a link to a Marshall Group staff newsletter from 2012 . On page three, there is an article about the Air League where TCT is referred to as Robert Marshall's partner.
http://marshallgroup.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/teamwork-aut-2012.pdf

Below, is another link to Companies House where it can be seen that Robert Marshall was a director of Bird in a Biplane until resigning in 2013. The address shown for both directors (TCT and Marshall) is The Honey Bee House, Cambridge which would appear to be a residential property which was sold in 2014.
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07763562/officers

Sale of property.
4 bedroom bungalow for sale in Nine Chimneys Lane, Balsham, Cambridge, CB21 4ES, CB21 (http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-26577360.html)

With reference to your comments on Mr Holloway, a quick search of Google indeed shows a very impressive background which Mr Holloway has comprehensively detailed in his Linkedin profile. It is obvious that Mr Holloway has spent many years involved with Marshall's which makes his input potentially of great interest. For whatever reason, he has decided to take up the mantle of defending TCT. Unfortunately, instead of taking the opportunity to rebut the accusations made against TCT with evidence and answers to the contrary, he decided to 'shoot the messengers', an approach which has much in common with TCT's and has gained him a temporary ban. Like others, I really hope that should he come back to the thread, he will take a different stance.

B Fraser

28th Nov 2016, 06:53

It appears though, that the true theme of outreach may not have significantly reached those who would most benefit from the effort.

One definition of outreach is to give a kid all of your old training materials and some wise words along the lines of having a backup career if it all goes pear shaped. For example, my good friend Mr Cough agreed in a heartbeat to have a chat with my neighbour's lad who has his sights set on flying for a living. Hopefully one day, that lad will make it.

Having a bunch of rich kids pose for a photo opportunity is not outreach by any definition that I am aware of.

Chesty Morgan

28th Nov 2016, 08:09

Outreach - Tracey Curtis Taylor - Aviatrix, Adventurer, Inspirational Speaker (http://www.birdinabiplane.com/outreach/)

Definition - "Outreach is an activity of providing services to any populations who might not otherwise have access to those services"

sophi

28th Nov 2016, 09:15

I welcome the input provided by Terry Holloway.

Perhaps he would be kind enough to provide details of this "outreach" programme that was brought to the attention of those who judged it as being "worthy?" Surely HCAP, who he defends and who he also claims knew that TCT was not flying solo, must have reviewed the full extent and volume of this outreach work otherwise how could they have judged it as being meritorious?

Also, in the full knowledge that TCT played no part in flight planning duties and was accompanied by a 20,000 hour ATPL Qualified Flying Instructor, perhaps he would also be kind enough to explain why TCT should be credited with possessing flying qualities that exceed those of any new PPL holder practised in the art of being guided, when necessary, by such an experienced tutor?

rugmuncher

28th Nov 2016, 10:34

What does the "R" in RAeS stand for?

I think you may have your answer. TCT has some influential friends.

Terry, I noticed you made mention of Chris Huckstep and his views on this situation. I know Chris from way back and I don't seem to recall him being the sort to suffer fools gladly and he would spot a BullS&%&$£r at a 1000yds. Is he aware of this thread and its factual content?
Established in 1866, the Society has been at the forefront of developments in aerospace ever since, seeking to: • Promote the highest professional standards in all aerospace disciplines • Provide specialist information & act as a central forum for the exchange of ideas • Play a leading role in influencing opinion on aerospace matters Her Majesty The Queen is the Society's Patron. - See more at: Royal Aeronautical Society | A Professional and Learned Society (http://www.aerosociety.com/About-Us/learnedsociety#sthash.IJPCFqct.dpuf)

This whole thing has become a mess and a disaster for ALL involved directly & indirectly.

I have formally cancelled my membership to the RAeS after finding out about the award to TCT.

I still ask that TCT does the honorable thing over this.

She is a disgrace to herself and aviation.

I have no more to say on this matter, as the last time I posted the thread was shut-down which I apologise for.

newsjunkie

28th Nov 2016, 11:32

Dear Mr Holloway

You invite members to feel sorry for Ms Curtis Taylor. She currently enjoys a hugely privileged lifestyle, swans around the country accepting a series of awards and accolades, has no need of what any of us would recognize as an actual "job" to fund any of this, has spent hundreds of thousands pounds flying through countries where people live on a dollar a day without ever, as far as one can tell, being moved to direct her considerable fund raising abilities to helping them in any tangible way and she threatens litigation if anyone ever points out any of her lies and misrepresentations. I think you are asking rather a lot of people.

You ask that people give her credit for some gutsy flying. People would have been more than happy to do exactly that. It was TCT herself who was not content with that. She wanted the status and celebrity and profile of a modern-day Amy Johnson. And she has achieved it. Nobody would ever have been any the wiser had not Jay smelled a rat and then pursued it. Can I suggest that in encouraging her pursuit of fame and status (rather than helping her see the role she has had in provoking justified criticism) you are not really doing her a service.

TCT has been blessed with striking good looks and is, by all accounts, very charming in person. This combination has been sufficient to separate many men in positions of power from their good judgement. Perhaps you should take this enforced hiatus and ask yourself if you might not be one of them.

She complains of misogyny. The great irony is that, were it not for her looks and feminine charms, nobody would ever have heard of her.

aviator_38

28th Nov 2016, 12:33

Ref #2885.

Some reports on TCT by the RAeS,and perhaps their understanding of the events that followed, may be gleaned from the following

Royal Aeronautical Society | Society News | Australian Division hosts Tracey Curtis-Taylor (http://www.aerosociety.com/News/Society-News/3958/Australian-Division-hosts-Tracey-CurtisTaylor)

"While Curtis-Taylor’s flight was basically a solo exercise she did have occasional VIP passengers, including a member of the Greek royal family and a Saudi princess. Australian Division corporate partners in attendance at the exclusive event included Qantas, Boeing, Airservices Australia and the Royal Australian Air Force.

Royal Aeronautical Society | Latest News | ?Bird in a Biplane? sets off for Australia (http://www.aerosociety.com/News/Society-News/3678/Bird-in-a-Biplane-sets-off-for-Australia)

‘Bird in a Biplane’ sets off for Australia
5 October 2015
Aviatrix Tracy Curtis Taylor has set off on her recreation of Amy Johnson’s trans-global flight to Sydney, Australia.
Curtis Taylor began her journey from Farnborough on 1 October. Her flight will see her flying solo through 23 countries. She expects to arrive in Sydney in January 2016.

And a talk she gave to the RAeS(Australian Division)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA6EBVunxnM

RAeS Sydney Branch - Tracey Curtis-Taylor

Cheers

Haraka

28th Nov 2016, 13:04

TH 2863#
It's not for me to comment. All along The Air League knew they were not solo flights. The award was given on that basis and for the reasons I have outlined and HCAP were the same.

RAeS

‘Bird in a Biplane’ sets off for Australia
5 October 2015
Aviatrix Tracy Curtis Taylor has set off on her recreation of Amy Johnson’s trans-global flight to Sydney, Australia.
Curtis Taylor began her journey from Farnborough on 1 October. Her flight will see her flying solo through 23 countries. She expects to arrive in Sydney in January 2016.

Farcical.

Cessnafly

28th Nov 2016, 13:29

"Farcical"

It's nice when it is this clearly evident to see how 'the rules' pan out for some. :rolleyes:

Establishment connections obviously assist.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

28th Nov 2016, 17:52

The Air League are truly prophetic. I wonder if they will supply me with next week's Lottery numbers...

"They knew all along that the flights were not SOLO!"

Strange considering that Boeing, one of the key sponsors, were still promoting the flights as SOLO as late as November 2015.

Old news for us but worth a read by Terry and his colleagues.
http://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingdotcom/media/dubai2015/pdf/releases_local/FinalEngStearmanflight_UAEPressRelease.pdf

*****
I wonder if Mark Chapman is a member on here, if so, may I ask that he drops me a PM so I know where to send him a bottle of single malt.

What Terry and all other supporters have failed to grasp is that for every award, apart from the HCAP Master's Medal, there will have been a runner-up on the nominations list; perhaps someone who is truly worthy of award and public credit.

The only awards I can think of that TCT deserves will be multiple Man Booker Prizes for Fiction.
I am sure her log-book, CV, and forthcoming biography* would be worthy of such distinction. I feel the post-crash at Winslow report is worthy in the short-story category.

*I was going to write autobiography but we all know it would be the work of a third-party.

sophi

28th Nov 2016, 22:10

Mike Flynn

29th Nov 2016, 07:00

The only evidence I can find of her 'Outreach' is that on her wiki page.

Several stopovers were scheduled into the flight, often with the aim of introducing Curtis-Taylor to local communities and to inspire others, particularly women.[25] In Dubai, the plane was part of the Boeing display at the Dubai Airshow in the United Arab Emirates,[6] while Curtis-Taylor was a keynote speaker at the International Aviation Women's Association conference.[26]

In Pakistan Curtis-Taylor was hosted by Squadron Leader Saira Batool of the Pakistani Air Force,[27] and visited a school in Karachi with Pakistani mountaineer Samina Baig to speak about their adventures and to inspire the children.[28][29] In Singapore, she met with girls and women involved in the UN Women programme Girls2Pioneers, which aims to encourage young women into STEM careers.[25] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracey_Curtis-Taylor

For the above according to wiki May 2016, the Air League presented her with a framed address in recognition of her flight from Farnborough to Sydney.No mention of outreach.

In July 2016, the University of Portsmouth, England, awarded her an honorary doctorate degree and of course this year the Honourable Company of Air Pilots awarded her its Masters Medal for her work in "raising awareness of science and technology in general, and aviation in particular, amongst young women across the world".

Most ordinary people have to do a hell of a lot more to get such recognition.

Can anyone discover why in October 2015, she was appointed an Honorary Lieutenant Commander in the Royal Navy Reserve?

Clearly someone was working hard behind the scenes to deliver the awards.

27/09

29th Nov 2016, 07:01

sophi: I have a couple of flying friends in New Zealand - one an aerobatic ace and the other a gliding instructor. When I inquired about TCT they told me that there are lots of people from far afield currently asking about and investigating to establish the truth about her history and flying exploits in NZ.

I believe all that can be established has already been posted on this thread.

27/09

29th Nov 2016, 08:20

I was referring to sophi's of comment about establishing the truth about her flying career in New Zealand. It's all covered in this thread. No need to go asking around.

A postage stamp would be plenty big enough from what I've read.

piperboy84

29th Nov 2016, 08:44

To be fair the attached link includes a stopover TCT made in Singapore where she talked to kids about persuing their dreams and STEM. However I think that with all the money and resources that Artemis and Beoing threw at this deal and the awards that have been given, something a bit more concrete on the outreach part could and should have been done, perhaps a scholarship or a PPL course for a deserving kid. Certainly a bit more than what appears to be a lecture on what she has been up to finished off with an admonishment to the kids to stick in at there schoolwork. It's a nice gesture but hardly noteworthy, when I was a kid the local cop used to come into our primary school and lecture us on how not to get flattened while biking into school then dished out cycling proficiency badges to everyone, I can't remember any awards ceremony for him and he probably saved a few lives.

https://www.superadrianme.com/travel/historic-1942-b/

Edit to add: The link below is from the "Outreach" page of girls2pioneers Singapore website.The same folks that TCT imparted her wisdom with. It lists the NGO's and corporate sponsors who financially support the program but nary a word about our favorite hedgefunders Artemis. Looks like they were riding for free on this photo op the low rent buggers.

http://unwomensg.wixsite.com/girls2pioneers/outreach

Stanwell

29th Nov 2016, 09:18

I have a couple of flying friends in New Zealand - one an aerobatic ace and the other a gliding instructor. When I inquired about TCT they told me that there are lots of people from far afield currently asking about and investigating to establish the truth about her history and flying exploits in NZ.
A look at a couple of canopener's posts, starting with #196 on page 10 of this thread might help fill a couple of gaps.
He is in a position to know about such things.

rugmuncher

29th Nov 2016, 10:37

Youngest person to fly solo, single engine AROUND THE WORLD!
https://www.facebook.com/WingsAroundTheWorld/?hc_location=ufi

Above The Clouds

29th Nov 2016, 10:43

Don't think this has been seen on here yet, was posted on youtube in the last few days, still blaming men;

/u8ebEXIdKi8

Or this;

http://rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/24750/tracey-curtis-taylor-nz?page=1&scrollTo=244314

.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

29th Nov 2016, 12:54

Mike Flynn

29th Nov 2016, 18:20

In answer to that Satco I can tell you I wasn't nominated for GA investigative journalism award. :ok:

Piperboy posted the link to https://www.superadrianme.com/travel/historic-1942-b/

She is exposed to the elements as she flies between 50 to 1,000 feet at 90mph and uses basic period flight instruments. Her next stop is at Palempang in Indonesia this Saturday followed by other cities in Indonesia and Australia before arriving at Sydney in Australia early next year.

Can some one explain to me why the crew of the Spirit of Artemis needed to fly so low?

Picture here with credit on the above site to Boeing.
https://s11.postimg.org/drexyz4rn/image.jpg
Tracey Curtis-Taylor in a classic 1942 Boeing Stearman ‘Spirit of Artemis’ flying through Asia (Boeing Photo)

I know from time spent in Myanamar the temple in the picture is one of many in Bagan.

Most countries will not sanction such a flight plan for VRF foreign pilots and that includes just about every one in S.E.Asia.

Sent from my period iPad writing instrument.

Cessnafly

29th Nov 2016, 18:58

Can you believe the 50ft claim Jay? We also believed the 'solo' claim initially.
She's a Walt through and through.

EDIT The photograph that you have just added at low altitude is for a photo-shot.

Day 2 into a 3 day ban and Terry Holloway is still not getting it. :ugh:

Terry Holloway
12 hrs · Freshwater ·
This is really for my aviation friends! Having spent a few hours reading through a number of PPrune forums I conclude that those individuals who inhabit the site mostly appear to be focussed on being negative! I wonder what my aviation friends think about the acceptability of the ongoing campaign on PPrune to discredit Tracey Tracey Curtis-Taylor. PPrune contributors also seem to have a real hate on The Honorable Company of Air Pilots and anyone who either drinks Gin and Tonic or wears a Bow Tie!

Right Hand Thread

29th Nov 2016, 19:21

Can some one explain to me why the crew of the Spirit of Artemis needed to fly so low?

TCT claims to have overflown the Temple of Jerusalem at 200'.

Mike Flynn

29th Nov 2016, 19:40

I would like to see a link to that!

B70

29th Nov 2016, 21:01

"Day 2 into a 3 day ban and Terry Holloway is still not getting it. "

Sometimes, after the whistle has been blown, it can take a long while for everyone to realise the truth. Anyone remember Camila Batmanghelidjh? This review of BBC's 'expose' might evoke some comparisons.

BBC1's Kids Company 'expose' was nothing of the sort | Coffee House (http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/bbc1s-kids-company-expose-was-nothing-of-the-sort/)

Genghis the Engineer

29th Nov 2016, 22:21

Last night was the RAeS Awards and Medals Ceremony.

Anyone in the know as to who got what and why?

Royal Aeronautical Society | Event | 2016 Honours, Medals, Awards & Prizes Ceremony (http://www.aerosociety.com/Events/Event-List/2890/2016-Honours-Medals-Awards-Prizes-Ceremony)

No 2016 awards brochure is up yet. Here's the 2015 awards...

http://www.aerosociety.com/Assets/Docs/Medals%20and%20Awards/2015_WOW_Medals_and_Awards_brochure_Web.pdf

I've had the privilege of being up there myself a few years ago. It is hellishly interesting seeing what all these people around you have done and achieved. A lot of very able people, with a great many years effort behind every one of them.

G

Chris Scott

29th Nov 2016, 22:33

SATCOs and Genghis,

As there was no list on the website, and unable to attend, I phoned the RAeS yesterday, quoting my membership credentials, to ask who would be the award recipients that evening. Someone gave me an e-mail address, to which I wrote immediately but have yet to get a reply. No doubt we'll hear in due course.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

29th Nov 2016, 23:18

Thanks chaps. :ok:

What is strange is that there has been no trumpeting from the usual sources on the usual sites. Hopefully someone on here who was in attendance and can give an update...unless of course the RAeS have seen sense and given reward only to those who really do deserve recognition.

Genghis the Engineer

30th Nov 2016, 07:59

To the best of my knowledge (and I've been an involved member for well over a quarter of a century) the RAeS has never been in the habit of giving awards to the undeserving.

People you've never heard of, certainly. But that just means that they were quietly getting on with what they were doing, and nothing else really mattered to them. You can clearly see that in common with the majority of people on the 2015 awards brochure.

G

Gonzo

30th Nov 2016, 10:28

@aerosociety was tweeting the award receipients on the evening, and I didn't see TCT's name.

I don't know if the list was exhaustive.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

30th Nov 2016, 10:54

Thank you Gonzo. I think Genghis is totally correct; recipients have always been worthy winners.

I guess we will just have to wait for a definitive list.:ok:

aviator_38

30th Nov 2016, 11:49

Ref #2935

see also #RAeSAwards,on Twitter

Cheers

Genghis the Engineer

30th Nov 2016, 22:46

I was at the Society today and picked up a spare copy of the awards brochure.

Please don't shoot the messenger...

Women in aviation and aerospace specialist group award

Ms Tracey Curtis-Taylor
Director, Bird in a Biplane Ltd

Ms Curtis-Taylor is recognised for her contribution in aviation and the inspiration she provides to young people, and to young people in particular, to recognise and strive to reach their full potential and, where appropriate, to gain a greater understanding of our industry and to consider it as a possible career.

Raised in Canada, Travey developed a passion for flight and had her first flying lesson aged 16. She worked in London and South Africa before emigrating to New Zealand and began flying in earnest. She gained her private pilots licence, commercial licence and an instructor rating and, unusual for a woman, was trained by military pilots to fly WW2 aeroplanes with the New Zealand Warbird Association. In 2015/16 Tracey took on the challenge of taking her Boeing Stearman biplane, the Spirit of Artemis from the UK to Sydney, Australia, following the route of Amy Johnson, the first pioneering female pilot to complete the 13,000 mile route.

It is probably the most junior award going, and probably the text is factually correct, but it is undeniably an award. The committee who will have recommended it are here: https://www.aerosociety.com/get-involved/women-in-aviation-network/

I'll mention two other GA people who also got awards, and perhaps earned them a little more.

(1) John Edgley, Silver Medal - for doing a whole bunch of stuff over about 40 years. (chairing the GA group for a decade, designing three aeroplanes, leading the achievement of the UK experimental conditions...)

(2) Miss Hania Mohiauddin, NE Rowe Certificate of Merit...

Miss Mohuiddin graduated with a BEng(Hons) in Aerospace Engineering from the University of Sheffield in 2013 and an MSc in Autonomous Vehicle Dynamics and Control from Cranfield University in 2016. Upon completion of her degree, she joined Martin-Baker as a Test Engineer conducting investigative trials of components from aircraft such as the F-18, F-35 and the A-1M. She is a STEM embassador. She participates in committees of various aerospace societies including the RAeS Manchester Branch. In addition she co-led a team to design and manufacture a Human Powered Aircraft for which she is the pilot. Her academic research included developing a Hybrid Electric Power Management System for UAVs, and Aircraft Electrical Braking Systems.

Well, one of the two impressed me as deserving the award she got. What on earth the Women in Aviation and Aerospace Committee of the RAeS were thinking, I cannot readily explain. The award panel for the NE Rowe certificate, I have no issues myself - and in fact have met the young lady and think she's quite an inspiring embassador for women, and young people, in aviation.

Tim Peake got an Honorary Fellowship, and the Geoffrey Pardoe Space Award. Four other honorary fellowships went to various captains of industry.

Three other women got awards, all arguably higher awards than TCTs - a Bronze Award went to a Jessica Jones from the University of Michigan - a PhD student for work on modelling highly flexwiblg aircraft, and another to an Irene Huertas at the European Space Agency for work on future space technologies. An honorary companionship went to Professor Elizabeth Hughes at Health Education England - formerly Lead Dean for Aviation and Space Medicine.

G

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

30th Nov 2016, 23:56

Thanks Genghis.

:confused: I thought you said the RAeS has never been in the habit of giving awards to the undeserving. Yet another "first" for TCT ;)

The way I see this going is that she is going to rack up award after award. People with influence will convince her that she is a far better pilot and aviation ambassador than she really is - not that it will take much; once that happens then the risk of another accident will sky-rocket.
It is important to know your limits and she is effectively being told she has none and can do no wrong.

I do hope for her sake that I am wrong.

It reminds me of the pushy-parent syndrome often seen on TV talent shows; parents, teachers, and friends convince some kid they can sing, they get to audition and sound like a boiling cat, however they remain firm believers in their own talent. When the judges tell the truth, it is they who are castigated.

9 lives

1st Dec 2016, 00:54

When the judges tell the truth, it is they who are castigated

Hmm, a number of posters on this thread were recently castigated....

Women in aviation and aerospace specialist group award

The Royal Aeronautical Society has shown us their perspective on choosing celebrity aviators. From Canada it certainly looks as though these prestigious British aviation groups are pretty gullible!

coldair

1st Dec 2016, 03:21

I can only hope that She does not receive an OBE in the New Years Honors.

Sadly, my hopes are not always fulfilled.

coldair

Jonzarno

1st Dec 2016, 07:00

Meanwhile in other news: Terry Holloway should now be back from Purdah and I'd be interested to hear if he has had any success in getting Ms Curtis-Taylor to answer the three questions he promised to ask her on our behalf.

In case they have dropped from view over the last several pages, and at the risk of incurring the Wrath of the Mods by repeating them again for the nth time, they are:

1. What is the reconciliation between Ms Curtis-Taylor's well documented claim to have flown her african flight "solo". Please see the video clip published earlier in this thread in which she personally makes that claim, and her subsequent public statement that the flight was not solo?

2. Given the above, what was she doing in the picture of her, published several times earlier in this thread, standing in front of a huge picture depicting the route and claiming she had been "Alone in an open cock-pit [sic] plane"?

3. By what authority, and with what qualification, does she wear RAF wings?

As I said in another earlier post: a failure to provide straight answers to these simple and direct questions, which I am sure she has seen and which Terry also promised to ask her, provides as eloquent a testimony as if she does answer.

Whirlybird

1st Dec 2016, 07:30

You know what I find really sad about all this? Amanda Harrison, Tiger Moth instructor and by all accounts an excellent pilot, has wanted to repeat Amy Johnson's flight since before she even had a licence. It's been pretty much a lifetime ambition. But Amanda has no money and was going to rely on sponsorship. Now she can't get any. Everyone thinks Tracy went first, and isn't interested. "inspiration she provides to young people"? More like helping to destroy their dreams. Nice work Tracy, I hope you're proud of yourself. :-(

Littlest Hobo

1st Dec 2016, 08:30

Ms Curtis-Taylor is recognised for her contribution in aviation and the inspiration she provides to young people, and to young people in particular, to recognise and strive to reach their full potential and, where appropriate, to gain a greater understanding of our industry and to consider it as a possible career.

I guess in that case there must be evidence available to demonstrate why Tracey is an inspiration to young people in particular?

The only examples I've seen are of Tracey delivering a message of "Lady Heath, Amy Johnson and I broke the mould in a man's world and you can too". I don't consider that to be providing a greater understanding of our industry, or an encouragement to consider aviation as a possible career.

Chris Scott

1st Dec 2016, 09:06

Quote from Whirlybird:
"Amanda has no money and was going to rely on sponsorship. Now she can't get any. Everyone thinks Tracy went first, and isn't interested. "

That, and the cynical suspension of truth, are indeed the saddest aspects of this affair. A wealthy, air-minded, would-be benefactor inclined to support any genuine solo attempt to repeat the two epic flights faces the problem that the world's media have informed everyone - including youngsters looking for inspiration to become involved in aerospace - that it's already done and dusted.

Would any potential sponsor be prepared first to direct limited resources trying vainly to disabuse a jaded world audience of the authenticity of Ms Curtis-Taylor's beautifully-promoted journey, and then reawaken the interest and imagination of young people across the globe in the real deal? Fat chance...

Better, perhaps, silently to endorse the lie?

Piltdown Man

1st Dec 2016, 09:57

Another institution run by the old fogies shows the stench of royal involvement and people who move "upper circles". No doubt it will now be an OBE and maybe even a knighthood for this most deserving of people. Possibly even a George Cross for gallantry in facing the wind in an open biplane or, as she is military (Rear Commander or whatever), maybe even VC her bravery in participating in thousands of outreach events around the world? The sky is the limit for this lady now she had made it past the misogynistics (and the women) who have been criticising her. It is obvious we are the stupid ones because the great institutions have all been more than happy to dish out the awards.

At least we can look forward to 2017 when this fantastic person picks up where she left off on her trip around the US. With her new found confidence of knowing she was right all along we can all look forward to some spectacular flying. She we open a book on her next prang?

PM

Prediction: Collision with power wires.

Crash one

1st Dec 2016, 10:21

A pretty sad and frustrating state of affairs.
It seems there are precious few "authorities" of any kind that have any real honesty about them, from the Church to Police, awards committees, Government, you name it.
The chancers are laughing at anyone with a grain of integrity.
It's not what you know, but who you know that matters. A phrase that was postulated to me many years ago by a total chancer.
At least it didn't do him any good though.
I shall sleep tonight knowing that whatever I've done with my life, I actually did it, whatever it's worth.

sophi

1st Dec 2016, 10:53

Look on the bright side. Despite her best endeavors;

Tracey Curtis Taylor has not been the recipient of any award recognising honesty, integrity or truthful reporting of her flying achievements,

The entire general aviation community now knows that she did not fly "solo' as she claimed to have done, and instead she was accompanied on the trips that led to awards being granted by a 20,000 hour ATPL, Flying Instructor.

Circumstances surrounding two aircraft crashes that she was involved in are a matter of public record.

Brand Tracey Curtis-Taylor has an indelible stench that will forever be attached to her name.

clunckdriver

1st Dec 2016, 11:39

Do the idiots who have bestowed this trinket on these imposters have any clue as to the huge damage they have done to the reputation of all things British in the view of the rest of the world? As a Canadian I for one have, as a result of having watched, what until now I looked upon most British institutions as ethical organisations whose awards had some value were worth while achieving, not so any more! No wonder the movement to change Canada to a republic is gaining members, myself included, {ex RCAF pilot by the way} this decision has been helped along by a few senior British officers who are guilty of the most stupid support of this litany of lies. I can only hope that this woman doesn't still hold Canadian citizenship

Cessnafly

1st Dec 2016, 11:48

Do the idiots who have bestowed this trinket on these imposters have any clue as to the huge damage they have done to the reputation of all things British

Clunkdriver it doesn't work like that, unfortunately.

The 'idiots' of which you speak will most certainly be getting great pleasure from all this. I would go as far as saying that they are getting more entertainment from this than us.

B Fraser

1st Dec 2016, 11:51

Mr Ghengis : was trained by military pilots to fly WW2 aeroplanes with the New Zealand Warbird Association.

What exactly defines a WW2 aeroplane ? IIRC TCT had some time in a Harvard which to the best of my knowledge was used as basic trainer for some aircrew but never fitted with any offensive capability. I guess that anyone who has flown a Tiger Moth can now lay claim to the same accolade however they would immediately be labelled as a complete wonker. As the venerable Chipmunk was used in anger to take sneaky photos of the Warsaw Pact hardware in what was East Berlin, can I say that I was trained to fly a cold war spy plane by a (former) military display pilot ?

You could not make it up, oh.... wait a minute.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

1st Dec 2016, 12:33

It really is a disgrace.
Terry Holloway suggested earlier that "If each of you gave us a fiver every time you wrote an unpleasant and misleading thread about Tracey CT our financial position would be much better."

Having watched events unfold I would not give a single penny to any organisation that openly supports, encourages, and rewards deception, cowboy-flying, corporate PR stunts. I will continue to inspire the future flyers with my role from within the Air Cadet organisation - that is where my money and time will be directed.

This most recent pat-on-the-back to her just makes me more determined to dig out the lies and get to the truth of this farce.

The key questions are repeated below:

1. What is the reconciliation between Ms Curtis-Taylor's well documented claim to have flown her african flight "solo" (Please see the video clip published earlier in this thread in which she personally makes that claim) and her subsequent public statement that the flight was not solo?

2. Given the above, what was she doing in the picture of her published earlier in this thread standing in front of a huge picture claiming she had been "Alone in an open cock-pit [sic] plane"?

3. By what authority, and with what qualification, does she wear RAF wings?
*******
In addition I would like answers to the following

- When exactly did the sponsorship requests begin?
- What did the investors THINK they were getting?
- When was it decided that these would not be a solo flights?
- Why was the solo aspect dropped?
- Were the sponsors informed of this material change?
- If so, when?
- Why was it felt necessary that the front seat would be occupied for the vast majority of the journey by Ewald?
- What steps did TCT take to correct the many SOLO headlines?
- Where is the evidence to show this even happened?
- Why, many months after the return to the UK, was TCT perpetuating the SOLO claim?

I have further questions relating to the mystery surrounding the *crash/accident/incident/bump/screw-up (*delete as applicable) at Winslow. I would not expect any truth to come from the BiaB camp so won't make them public here. They will now be directed to ATC Winslow and Joshua Cawthra (NTSB) investigator. It will be extremely interesting to see how their answers match the drivel in the official report narrative as submitted by TCT.

Stanwell

1st Dec 2016, 14:35

B Fraser,
WWII aeroplanes vs Warbirds ...
This subject has been argued at length elsewhere - and there are indeed a couple of grey areas.

It is generally accepted that a Warbird is an aircraft that was specifically designed and produced for military purposes - whether it be a trainer or front-line fighter.
A WWII aeroplane, on the other hand, can be any aircraft that was impressed for service during that time of war.

Others might argue but here is probably not the place to do it. :ok:

B Fraser

1st Dec 2016, 15:03

Mr Stanwell Sir,

I agree wholeheartedly however when we have someone "bigging it up" for shameless self-promotion then it becomes a valid discussion point in my view. Take for example, a jolly to Le Touquet. One individual might say that they are retracing the steps of Louis Bleriot by taking a monoplane across the channel. The reality is that they did nothing more remarkable than nipping over for lunch in a Cessna.

Haraka

1st Dec 2016, 15:29

What makes me laugh is that a whole Balbo of various vintage aircraft types , including a gaggle of TC-T "rejected" Tiger Moths among other open cock-pit bi-plane ( sic) types. is currently flying ,for fun and with leisure breaks, the length of Africa in 36 days, with benefits to charity.
I think that , in a way, the G.A. community is itself metaphorically putting the finger up to certain of the U.K. establishment's pumped-up posturings regarding one of its stool pigeons.
With some justification, I suspect Sam Rutherford will be allowing himself a well deserved quiet smile.

Danny42C

1st Dec 2016, 15:40

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY (#2956 - I hope you didn't enjoy it too much !),
... They will now be directed to ATC Winslow and Joshua Cawthra (NTSB) investigator....
Hope we can get the true facts of this "incident" at last.

Agree with your entire Post. But I think most of our readers have already made their minds up, and are eagerly waiting for the "implosion". As somebody here put it: "So much egg - So many faces !"

Danny42C. (ATC Linton-o-O '63-'64 - but had a nice, kind SATCO).

deefer dog

1st Dec 2016, 17:00

It seems that the pilot community in NZ have been brought up to speed with the lies:

Tracey Curtis-Taylor in NZ | Wings Over New Zealand (http://rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/24750/tracey-curtis-taylor-nz)

Mike Flynn

1st Dec 2016, 19:04

To be fair you have to look at press reports to understand the true story.

Reading this I must ask how many of us are capable of facing such an epic series of flights?

By Jonathan Pearlman, Sydney12:15PM GMT 09 Jan 2016

Before setting off on her treacherous 14,600-mile solo voyage across the world in a vintage open-cockpit biplane, British aviator Tracey Curtis-Taylor was aware of the risks and planned for the worst.

So much so she had even carefully detailed her own funeral arrangements.

Today she joked she "needed a drink", after completing a three-month journey to retrace a pioneering feat of legendary aviator Amy Johnson, who in 1930 became the first woman to fly solo between Britain and Australia.

Setting off in October in her tiny 1942 Boeing Stearman, the 53-year-old soon faced thick “unflyable” fog that left her flying blind in Romania. Later, she flew through frightening dust storms in Saudi Arabia and fierce hot winds in central Australia.

But none of these proved to be her greatest moment of terror.
Instead, and somewhat fittingly, the biggest danger came from a threat that had also been faced by Johnson herself, whose 1930 voyage from London to Sydney was the model for Curtis-Taylor’s.

About 500 feet above the Pakistani city of Karachi, Curtis-Taylor suddenly found herself flying through countless flocks of “huge raptors”, or large birds, including vultures, eagles and buzzards.

Setting off in October in her tiny 1942 Boeing Stearman, the 53-year-old soon faced thick “unflyable” fog that left her flying blind in Romania. Later, she flew through frightening dust storms in Saudi Arabia and fierce hot winds in central Australia.
But none of these proved to be her greatest moment of terror.
Instead, and somewhat fittingly, the biggest danger came from a threat that had also been faced by Johnson herself, whose 1930 voyage from London to Sydney was the model for Curtis-Taylor’s.
About 500 feet above the Pakistani city of Karachi, Curtis-Taylor suddenly found herself flying through countless flocks of “huge raptors”, or large birds, including vultures, eagles and buzzards.

Recalling the episode after finally completing her voyage in Sydney on Saturday, Curtis-Taylor said she knew as she steered that a collision with a single bird could prove fatal.
“They were massing all around, wheeling all around the plane - sometimes they were out front looking down on me,” she said.

“If one flew into the engine, I wouldn’t get out [alive]. I didn’t know whether to try to dodge them or whether they will dodge me. In the end you just a steer course… Amy made the same comment in her memoirs. But the bloody things are still there, 80 years later.”

In her vintage reconditioned piston-engine plane, without a parachute and using 2,100 gallons of fuel, Curtis-Taylor traversed 23 countries after taking off from Farnborough on October 1 in her plane, the Spirit of Artemis.

Unlike Johnson, who famously set her course by using a ruler to draw a direct line between England and Australia, Curtis-Taylor was forced to fly around warzones in the Middle East and to navigate a maze of varying airspace rules and airport regulations in this age of the autopilot, which is often ill-equipped to deal with a vintage, fly-by-sight plane.

Curtis-Taylor’s voyage, aided by a support crew, eventually took her across Europe and over the Dead Sea and the Arabian desert to India, Pakistan and through Asia to Australia.

In the cockpit, her only modern conveniences were a GPS device and an iPad, which was essential for navigating a path through military airspaces and restricted zones. But she said the only damage to her plane was some dents from landing on a gravel strip in the Australian outback.

“It is all visual contact,” she said.

“I can’t fly at night, I can’t fly in cloud, I can’t fly in severely reduced visibility. It is stick and rudder. I am flying the terrain as I see it. I have a GPS, but if I see things I like I swoop in - over emus and kangaroos, over the rivers, looking for crocodiles. It is one of the rarest adventures in the world.”

An experienced solo pilot, Curtis-Taylor said the weather and varying winds posed almost daily challenges, including a period fog in eastern Europe that forced her to land in a cow paddock in Hungary.

In Saudi Arabia, she said, thunderstorms and dust storms forced her to “track” roads, keeping an altitude of about 100 feet.

“But they still have pylons and towers,” she said. “You have to be so careful. There were jagged rock mountains that loomed straight out of the desert. You are in lightning and it is dark as night. Every day there was something.”

Before departing, Curtis-Taylor, who lives in London, prepared a will and made funeral arrangements, including directions for the catering and music (she selected the songs Southern Cross by Crosby, Stills & Nash, about a Pacific sea voyage, and Gordon Lightfoot’s If You Could Read My Mind).

to be continued

Female pilot Tracey Curtis-Taylor lands in Sydney after epic journey in 1942 aircraft - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/12090685/Female-pilot-lands-in-Sydney-after-epic-journey-from-Britain-in-1942-aircraft.html)

When I read that I am in awe.

Prince Michael must be pleased he helped push the Spirit of Artemis out of the hangar at Farnborough in October 2015. A momentus day when the Queens cousin did his bit to launch a historic series of flights.

How many of us can say we had a member of the Royal Family push our aircraft out of a hangar?

That claim alone must be historic?

Here she is in a touching picture sporting the WW2 RAF brevet alongside Prince Michael.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/02/06/2CF92B2D00000578-0-image-a-203_1443763677772.jpg

He must be remarking what a nice touch to wear those historic wings worn by the brave during World War Two. ( If you read Pprune Prince Michael can I have some too? There must be a whole bunch of those lying in the attic at Buck House?)

If you manage to read the above you will understand why Tracey Curtis Taylor deserves the awards for the sort of flying none of us could ever imagine:ok:

piperboy84

1st Dec 2016, 20:47

Incredibly brave and adventurous woman, who here amongst us would even contemplate let alone dare to go on a multi stop VFR bimble equipped with only a newly reconditioned plane and engine, sporting the latest Garmin kit, powered by all the free avgas you can burn and under the watchful eye of the aircrafts builder and 10,000 hour flight instructor?

It must have been abject hell cruising along day after day burdened with the angst of never knowing that this may very well be the night that the support team let you down by failing to secure accommodation that offered both a duvet turn down service and a mint on the pillow.

I too would have made funeral arrangements prior to departure if there was no assurance that those damned ungrateful natives in the former colonies would allow me to chose from the full dinner menu instead of the bar menu in the unfortunate event Sam failed to get the luggage delivered to the hotel bellhop on time.

Armed with the knowledge that danger was not solely reserved for the flying part she bravely ventured into classrooms full of kids of the local elite protected only by her PR advisor who mitigated the risk somewhat by assuring her that she and Artemis would not have to part with any cash donations as a retelling of her and Amy's flying exploits was more than enough to motivate any youth predisposed to a flying or engineering career.

Spectacular, just absolutely amazing, who needs Mother Teresa when we got our gal Tracey?

Jonzarno

1st Dec 2016, 21:06

Jonzarno - you are on cloud cuckoo

I'm beginning to think you're right. (But please don't rub it in!:O)

For a brief moment when Terry started to engage with us, I thought we might end up with a sensible solution that would go some way to righting the wrongs without hurting Ms Curtis-Taylor too much.

Ah well, ho-hum! :sad:

Chris Scott

1st Dec 2016, 22:05

I've just clicked on Jay Sata's link to a Telegraph on-line article. The article is dated 9th January, and the secondary headline reads:

The British adventurer recreating a historic 13,000 mile solo flight from the UK to Australia has landed in Sydney, saying: 'I need a drink'

Is it not fair to suggest that most, if not all, reasonable people reading that headline today would infer - just as on the day the article first appeared - that Ms Curtis-Taylor, in "recreating a... solo flight...", must have herself flown solo?

Newspapers containing misleading news used to be binned within a few days, but this article lives on in cyberspace. How can our meagre efforts on PPRuNe to set the record straight compete with mass media?

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

1st Dec 2016, 23:43

Chris, the mass media is our friend on this. If there had only been the one reference to solo in the media then it would be easy for TCT and BiaB PR to explain it away. As it was all media reporting as solo, even the papers and TV channel that were the main supporters (Daily Mail and ITN), then it is harder to say "they got it wrong"; the misinformation can only have come from a single source - the BiaB team themselves.

It also means that we have sources to refer back to and verify what was said and by whom. There is the "on my own" quote in the Telegraph which I have checked by contacting the paper and both the journalist and the editorial compliance exec have said this was what TCT actually said to them. Add to that the Herne Bay vomit-inducer, the "Alone in an open cockpit" self promotional speech and you can conclude it is clear that we are correct. Even non-aviation bodies who have no direct involvement or reason to mis-report have documented it as a solo venture (see the Women's Institute presentation linked in one of my earlier posts).

There is absolutely no doubt that it was the media and the sponsors who were fed the solo yarn by TCT. Shame there are still sycophants out there that do not wish to see the truth in all of this.

As for TCT's next crash...It won't be power-lines or totem poles but a collision with her own ego; basically a Bird(in a biplane)Strike. :ok:

Mike Flynn

2nd Dec 2016, 22:09

All summed up in the UK by one word.

Connections.

They do not come much better than Prince Michael.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/02/06/2CF92B2D00000578-0-image-a-203_1443763677772.jpg

terry holloway

3rd Dec 2016, 07:56

All summed up in the UK by one word.

Connections.

They do not come much better than Prince Michael.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/02/06/2CF92B2D00000578-0-image-a-203_1443763677772.jpg
Having had many dealings with the Royal Household over many years I can tell you that connections with members of the Royal family, in themselves,do not help. In particular, there are some very strict rules about involvement with what are seen as advertising, commercial activities and fundraising. Prince Michael will not have helped TCT directly one jot, and whist photographs such as this are impressive, I know they will not have influenced her sponsors Boeing (a US company) or Artemis (whom I know well through another Charity- The Haven). Both companies simply want publicity, and neither is interested in The Royal Family. In any event, this photo was taken after the sponsors had given the money.

clareprop

3rd Dec 2016, 08:20

terry holloway,

I can tell you that connections with members of the Royal family, in themselves,do not help.

They certainly help if you have a public speaking business or are off to search for new sponsors.

PS Welcome back :ok:

B Fraser

3rd Dec 2016, 08:24

Mr Holloway Sir,

Welcome back. My good friend Mr Cough knows you and if he says you are a decent chap then that's good enough for me.

I can't quite accept that having a minor royal as a very close friend brings no advantages. Let's take for instance the photo below from TCT's own website. Unless Uber have branched out, I don't know of any other organisation that would have laid on a Lynx for TCT plus friend to whisk her from Battersea to Middle Wallop.

http://www.birdinabiplane.com/images/jan15.jpg

We can then examine the various awards that have been bestowed. When you dig slightly deeper, the same name keeps cropping up. Is it just coincidence or do all roads lead to Rome ? My line of work teaches me that there is no such thing as coincidence.

Can I ask you to find out who gave her the RAF wings and did that person tell her it was ok for her to wear them ? Does that person hold an honorary senior RAF rank ? Does that person by sheer coincidence, (and who would have believed it ?) also hold an honorary senior rank in the Royal Navy Reserve ? A definitive answer would be most welcome so we can stop the speculation.

Cessnafly

3rd Dec 2016, 08:36

Terry Holloway
Having had many dealings with the Royal Household over many years I can tell you that connections with members of the Royal family, in themselves,do not help. In particular, there are some very strict rules about involvement with what are seen as advertising, commercial activities and fundraising. Prince Michael will not have helped TCT directly one jot, and whist photographs such as this are impressive, I know they will not have influenced her sponsors Boeing (a US company) or Artemis (whom I know well through another Charity- The Haven). Both companies simply want publicity, and neither is interested in The Royal Family. In any event, this photo was taken after the sponsors had given the money.

What utter nonsense.

Whilst the sponsors may have already been in place at the juncture of this particular photo, the sponsors would have known that Prince Michael was on board.
She would have banged that drum in the same fashion as 'alone/solo'

The awards are all based upon her connections, with some having influence in those organisations.

You do sound like a decent chap but I don't think that you will be able to insult our intelligence here on this one.

Stanwell

3rd Dec 2016, 09:19

piperboy84

3rd Dec 2016, 18:01

At this point I don't think it's important how she got here, its what she done when she arrived with all the solo,alone Herne Bay vid nonsense firmly established . I suspect the real scam is when you start peeling the onion on the "Outreach". What's the chances that BIAB and Artemis never forked over a dime or delivered anything tangible whatsoever at all to the deprived kids, neglected women and endangered animals she photo op'd with along the way. It would appear the extent of her outreach was delivering a monologue about herself to groups, some of whom were established charities supported by donations from others. But is there any evidence she or Artemis actually did any outreach in the common definition of the word other than her "chats" the veracity and accuracy of which we all know about.

Welcome back Terry, any chance you could source just one kid that got a scholarship, or one woman who got a micro loan to become self sufficient, or even one poacher patrol that got a donation towards night vision goggles or their aircraft annual from BIAB or Artemis during the outreach part of the "expeditions"? that is after all what she's being feted for now.

I recall Sam mentioned in an earlier post that one of his duties was to act as a sort of Paymaster General for the African trips expenses. Was there ever a time Sam where Tracey, PR guy Kelly and the Artemis rep sat you down with your expedition chequebook and payments ledger and said " Right Sam where are we on this outreach thing from a financial perspective, how much have we spent, and how much have we committed from the budget so far"

I'd imagine that if as HCAP and RAeS have recognised that a major focus of these trips was outreach then I want to be the first to congratulate them on the success of those of efforts based on proof of course and not some fuzzy notion of supposedly having delivered.

terry holloway

3rd Dec 2016, 21:22

Two points, if I may..
"Prince Michael manages his own consultancy business .." (Wikipedia).
"He also spends time running his successful consultancy business. (PMK Official website).
(My bolds)

Secondly..
Boeing United Kingdom Limited and Boeing Defence UK Limited don't sound terribly like US companies to me.
As I understand it the Boeing sponsorship came from the US, but the UK team managed the PR.
I can't comment on the Prince Michael consultancy because I don't know. He certainly doesn't have any link to Marshall or The Air League, and I don't believe there is a Boeing connection.

Terry Holloway
Having had many dealings with the Royal Household over many years I can tell you that connections with members of the Royal family, in themselves,do not help. In particular, there are some very strict rules about involvement with what are seen as advertising, commercial activities and fundraising. Prince Michael will not have helped TCT directly one jot, and whist photographs such as this are impressive, I know they will not have influenced her sponsors Boeing (a US company) or Artemis (whom I know well through another Charity- The Haven). Both companies simply want publicity, and neither is interested in The Royal Family. In any event, this photo was taken after the sponsors had given the money.

What utter nonsense.

Whilst the sponsors may have already been in place at the juncture of this particular photo, the sponsors would have known that Prince Michael was on board.
She would have banged that drum in the same fashion as 'alone/solo'

The awards are all based upon her connections, with some having influence in those organisations.

You do sound like a decent chap but I don't think that you will be able to insult our intelligence here on this one.
Like it or not but what I said earlier is true in my experience of working very closely with the Royal Household.
Of course some people will be impressed by "Royal connections", but I do not believe that applies to either Artemis or Boeing.
I don't believe TCT had any contact or links to Prince Michael prior to the SA trip, by which time the two sponsors had been secured.

Mr Holloway Sir,

Welcome back. My good friend Mr Cough knows you and if he says you are a decent chap then that's good enough for me.

I can't quite accept that having a minor royal as a very close friend brings no advantages. Let's take for instance the photo below from TCT's own website. Unless Uber have branched out, I don't know of any other organisation that would have laid on a Lynx for TCT plus friend to whisk her from Battersea to Middle Wallop.

We can then examine the various awards that have been bestowed. When you dig slightly deeper, the same name keeps cropping up. Is it just coincidence or do all roads lead to Rome ? My line of work teaches me that there is no such thing as coincidence.

Can I ask you to find out who gave her the RAF wings and did that person tell her it was ok for her to wear them ? Does that person hold an honorary senior RAF rank ? Does that person by sheer coincidence, (and who would have believed it ?) also hold an honorary senior rank in the Royal Navy Reserve ? A definitive answer would be most welcome so we can stop the speculation.

It would have been the other way round! I assume the Army laid on a Lynx to take Prince Michael to Middle Wallop, and she accompanied him.
I can absolutely assure you that a Royal connection/ patron does not influence any awards in The Air League, and I am quite certain that applies equally in HCAP LAA, and RAeC.

I've not seen her "wearing" RAF wings but from a conversation with a chum I believe the Royal Navy gave her Navy wings, which go with her "Honorary" rank in the RN. There was a suggestion that an old (WW2) set of wings were given to her for good luck which may have been loosely pinned to the lapel of her flying suit as a talisman. Most people (including me!) will see nothing wrong with that, because it's not a pretense of something else.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

3rd Dec 2016, 22:42

You have a wonderful sense of humour Terry, you certainly made me chuckle.... (welcome back by the way, your input is both welcome and entertaining).

It would have been the other way round! I assume the Army laid on a Lynx to take Prince Michael to Middle Wallop, and she accompanied him.

It matters not whether the uber-lynx was for HRH PM or for TCT; the question remains why did she tag along in the first place. Bottom line is she got a free ride due to her connection with HRH PM

I can absolutely assure you that a Royal connection/ patron does not influence any awards in The Air League, and I am quite certain that applies equally in HCAP LAA, and RAeC.

If the Royal Patron suggests to any of the above that someone may be worth a pat on the back, I doubt very much it plays no part in influencing a decision, the influence may be small, it may be large, but it WILL have an influence.

I've not seen her "wearing" RAF wings but from a conversation with a chum I believe the Royal Navy gave her Navy wings, which go with her "Honorary" rank in the RN. There was a suggestion that an old (WW2) set of wings were given to her for good luck which may have been loosely pinned to the lapel of her flying suit as a talisman. Most people (including me!) will see nothing wrong with that, because it's not a pretense of something else.

You seem to have lost the fighter-pilot eyesight Terry. Maybe you have sand in your eyes; an image you quoted from one of Jay's posts shows her wearing the wings. They are RAF wings although it was earlier believed they were FAA ones, I have not seen her wear FAA wings on her naval uniform.

At one point she did have them on her right lapel (I accept this could be a good luck trinket and have no issue with that). However, she now wears them on her left chest as if they are issued for completing RAF pilot training: Anyone who has earned their wings should rightly be offended at this, likewise anyone who has family who have EARNED the right to wear a brevet.

terry holloway

3rd Dec 2016, 22:56

Re the wings, I really couldn't make them out and I really do need to see a better photo! The chum (who I mentioned in the earlier post about RN wings) made the point that as an ex fleet air arm pilot he and others were outraged that TCT had been given Navy wings and thus I assumed that is what is on her left breast. If they were awarded to her she is entitled, of course, to wear them. Like many others I believe such wings should be properly earned, but if the services decide to give them out in such a way that's really up to them.

BillieBob

3rd Dec 2016, 23:13

....and thus I assumed that is what is on her left breast. And therein lies the rub, Terry; you make assumptions based on the comments of 'chums' whereas others, having examined the evidence come to a quite different conclusion. Have you never heard the old adage "Don't assume, Check", a favourite of various RAF flight safety posters of your era?

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

3rd Dec 2016, 23:27

terry holloway

4th Dec 2016, 08:35

There you go Terry. A clear image of "Walt-wings".

And before you respond with "..but they could be on anyone, where is the proof it is TCT?" I have included another clear image, and no, the woman shown is not a look-a-like/impersonator/stunt double: It is TCT wearing an RAF brevet. ;)

Just one small part of this monumental fantasy.
That could not be clearer. Thank you! Pre 1952 (wire?) wings, which predate her. Presumably a talisman which she referred to in a statement. The MoD ceremonial office should be able to explain the legal position on wearing historic insignia. Personally I wouldn't wear something (like those wings) which could lead to criticism by others, but dressed like that she is hardly posing as an RAF pilot. Those who go to the Goodwood meetings every year, and elsewhere, dressed in the full modern uniform with wings are rather more guilty of being imposters. There is a post elsewhere on Prune about uniforms and surpriseingly that has attracted little comment, whereas those who seek to continue to vilify TCT on this thread appear to be eager to unearth anything - however remote - which will sustain their unkind campaign, which many find unpleasant and unnecessary. As I said when I first joined this thread hasn't she suffered enough? What is the end game?

Littlest Hobo

4th Dec 2016, 08:46

As I said when I first joined this thread hasn't she suffered enough? What is the end game?

Good morning Terry,

I think for most people that is very simple - an honest answer to the clear questions that have been posted multiple times on this thread and elsewhere.

For me, some sound evidence of the outreach activities that have been deemed award-worthy would also be welcomed.

Genghis the Engineer

4th Dec 2016, 10:28

For me, some sound evidence of the outreach activities that have been deemed award-worthy would also be welcomed.

A hundred times, yes.

Arguably, that would turn her from a Wilhelmina Mitty, to a worthwhile person who promotes aviation, who just has an unfortunate habit of bigging her flying achieves up a bit.

G

megan

4th Dec 2016, 11:45

As I said when I first joined this thread hasn't she suffered enough? What is the end game?I'd have to ask Terry, what has she suffered? That she has been shown to be economical with the truth? Others would be so unkind as to say that she lies about her achievements. TCT baked the cake, if the taste is not to her liking then there is not much we can do about it.

9 lives

4th Dec 2016, 12:11

For me, some sound evidence of the outreach activities that have been deemed award-worthy would also be welcomed.

Hear hear!

If TCT emerged from under her aircraft dusty, and smelling of fuel, while teaching a group of aviation minded young people how a pre flight inspection is done, and then missed her lunch, because she stayed to answer questions all afternoon, I would have more patience for other aspects of her presentation.

Though I'm not keen on a "end justifies the means" approach to life, if TCT could show that some embellishment really opened up a more broad opportunity for more effective outreach, which was accomplished, I would feel less need to see her called to account for what are obvious misrepresentations elsewhere.

tmmorris

4th Dec 2016, 12:40

As an officer with the air cadets, I wear RAF uniform to work sometimes. My rank isn't even honorary (though it is acting). As a PPL I'd love to have some wings to wear. But I accept I can't.

What's the difference?

The Old Fat One

4th Dec 2016, 13:21

For me, some sound evidence of the outreach activities that have been deemed award-worthy would also be welcomed.

+100

There is your answer Terry. And as for the call for sympathy...that went out the window when she started threatening folk with the police/solicitors.

I confess I don't know why she is bothering with all this flying stuff anyway...she seems perfectly qualified for a career in politics...

Obscure
Threaten
Deny

Nailed on future PM if you ask me.

ShyTorque

4th Dec 2016, 16:02

I earned a set of RAF "wings" the hard way. I was required to wear them on my RAF uniforms and flying overall for just under twenty years.

Now I'm a civilian pilot (have been so for twenty years), I do not wear RAF wings (and never have done so since leaving the RAF) because it's inappropriate to wear them on civilian clothing.

To wear them on an unearned basis on civilian clothing is doubly inappropriate. Ms. TCT has been asked more than once why she thinks she is entitled to wear them (via email as well as here). She never answers. In my opinion she is now somewhat worse than a Walt. At least most Walts admit to being wrong once rumbled.

Terry H. you are entitled to your opinion about who should wear RAF wings and who shouldn't. No-one would deny that you are an accomplished pilot in your own right but you didn't earn them either, so you can't be expected to understand how strongly people who did might object to them being worn as "trinkets". Especially by someone who claims to have been trained by RAF pilots, probably hoping to fool some folk that she's RAF qualified.

Ivor Fynn

4th Dec 2016, 20:21

ShyTorque,

Plus 1.

Piltdown Man

5th Dec 2016, 00:22

For me the wings are a minor point but I can understand why it annoys so many. An RAF brevet can only be earned by a combination of hard work and tested ability. There is no easy way to get them, which is why they have a certain kudos. The "solo" claim, apart from being a downright lie is also minor. The most important issue for me is TC-T's blatant disregard for rules, regulations and common sense and her insistence on flying wherever she likes and at any height and then having the gall to brag about it in her talks. If she is to lead and inspire others she should set a positive example beyond reproach. I also doubt the extent of her "outreach" and worse, if any of her potential proteges ever followed her example of air(wo)manship there is a damn good chance they would end up dead (or in prison) - assuming they didn't have a 20,000 hour pilot in the other seat. But worse than any of the above, several formerly prestigious institutions appear to feel that her talks about reckless flying should be rewarded. That is inexcusable.

9 lives

5th Dec 2016, 02:04

If she is to lead and inspire others she should set a positive example beyond reproach.

Very true! When I train newer pilots, I remind myself that my duty is to resist "fooling around" in a plane, and teaching and living it the right way, so that is the standard I demonstrate. The "do as I say, not as I do", really really does not work in piloting!

TCT has some apologizing to her peers to do with this subject.

Mike Flynn

6th Dec 2016, 06:12

Quote:
Originally Posted by fwjc
Apparently Tracey will be speaking at the BWPA Christmas Dinner and AGM event in a couple of week's time. I had intended to attend the dinner but I refuse to pay money to hear beautifully presented twaddle.

I understand she did not attend.

mary meagher

6th Dec 2016, 07:32

really is Ewald Gritsch. An easy name to forget, this lump who was crouching down most of the time in the front seat of the Boeing Stearman, is in my mind the responsible person who has escaped a lot of the opprobrium heaped upon the photogenic TCT.

To my mind the careless flying claimed by this woman and the fiction perpetrated by the entire publicity chain of Boeing, Artimis, and various royals, is the real crime. And Ewald Gritsch, who appears to own and maintain about five or six (identical?) Stearmans, who holds an instructor's rating and apparently has 20,000 hours in his logbook, manages to avoid any negative publicity or responsibility for the money making scam?

As others have mentioned, taking credit for dangerous and illegal flying is part of their story, so the national association supervising the license held by Gritsch needs to investigate his exploits.

If when I was an instructor in gliders there had been an accident I, not the beginner in the front seat of the K13, would have been held, and would deserve to have been held, completely responsible.

longer ron

6th Dec 2016, 07:56

Trouble is Mary -
The Oafishul story was that EG was merely a passenger with less than zero input into the flying !
The responsibility for any irresponsible flying etc therefore firmly rests on the 'Sole' Pilots shoulders.

Tagron

6th Dec 2016, 08:23

But how do we know if the allegedly careless dangerous or illegal flying actually took place ? Do not these claimed exploits fall in the same category as the solo claims ? But whether true, exaggerated or plain false bragging about them in high profile public statements does not seem to me a good idea.

Piltdown Man

6th Dec 2016, 08:35

Good point Tagron. From the clips i've seen the scud running is verifiable as is the low flying over wildlife (flamingos I believe). I haven't see the fulll African film so the airspace burglary at the Victoria Falls and Entebbe may not have occurred. However, woman flying a jolly green biplane is not an easy thing to forget. I shall have to send the SATCO's an email and see what comes back.

27/09

6th Dec 2016, 08:40

Yes, I too wonder about the veracity of some of the "risky" flying claims. I suspect these claims have been made to bolster the daring do image of the occupant of the Stearman's rear cockpit.

If they were made in my presence I'd be asking questions, however they've been made to people who don't really understand anything about flying.

Piltdown man, the camera angle can be deceiving at times, long lenses can distort the perspective markedly.

compressor stall

6th Dec 2016, 09:35

Piltdown man, the camera angle can be deceiving at times, long lenses can distort the perspective markedly

I have taken quite a bit of air to air filming and in the right light and lens you can make the aircraft appear at almost ground level. Indeed one picture that was taken at over 2000' agl we discussed as to whether we should let it go public as it had the appearance of something way under 100' and thus might invoke subsequent questioning from the regulator.

Stanwell

6th Dec 2016, 10:06

Of course. I agree.
Take, for example, her claim about flying at '10 (or 25) feet or below' over breeding whales.
I don't know whether that was filmed from the chase plane/camera ship or not.
I do however very much doubt the veracity of that TCT story, particularly, as we know, Ewald would have been in the front seat.

The big sin, as far as I'm concerned, is that she'd been loudly telling the world that she had done that (and other very naughty things) - and gotten away with it.
What kind of message does that send to impressionable youngsters who might consider taking up flying?
Inspirational speaker, eh?
.

surely not

6th Dec 2016, 10:34

Terry Holloway asks what the end game is for this thread.

I can't speak for anyone else but my wish, having read this thread from the beginning, is that any award given, or proposed to be given, for these flights on the basis of piloting or difficulty of the flights is withdrawn as we now know she wasn't solo; she didn't do her own flight planning; she used GPS to navigate; she didn't sort out the overflights, visas, etc; she didn't do the engineering checks on the Stearman; she didn't arrange her own PR, she had a logistics team arranging hotels, baggage transfers, paying the bills etc.

Her major part to play in these flights appears to have been to scrub up nicely and to speak well, and she carried out these duties admirably.

After the flights she has exaggerated freely about her exploits, claimed things that have been easily disproved, and someone has landed her with having to accept these awards for things she didn't do. It would have been preferable if she had politely declined the awards as they were factually inaccurate.

I remember watching with fascination as Sheila Scott and her Comanche Myth Too flew around the World. That was meritorious, TCT isn't even on the same page of capability.

I'm sure that TCT's exploits will make a rippingly good film, but please can she stop pretending to have done this solo, or that it in any way shape or form compares to Amy Johnson, Sheila Scott and other pioneering female aviators.

That clarifies what I would like to see as an end game. Others may want differently

Right Hand Thread

6th Dec 2016, 11:40

Yes, I too wonder about the veracity of some of the "risky" flying claims. I suspect these claims have been made to bolster the daring do (sic) image of the occupant of the Stearman's rear cockpit.

If they were made in my presence I'd be asking questions, however they've been made to people who don't really understand anything about flying.

They've been made to all sorts of people including some of us who think we understand something about flying. That didn't seem to stop her saying it though.

Chris Scott

6th Dec 2016, 21:15

Excuse the thread-drift, but if any pilot of light aircraft - male or female - is currently worthy of consideration for an award, the list should include Sacha Dench, She returned to Blighty yesterday at the end of a 4500-mile flight following the autumn migration of Bewick's swans from the Arctic-Sea coast of Russia in September, finally landing her powered paraglider in Kent after crossing the English Channel - her first sea crossing.

She's a conservationist, working at Slimbridge Wildfowl and Wetlands Trust in the west country. Her expedition included a small support team. Interviewed on BBC Radio 4's PM programme this evening, she made little fuss about her flying achievement, during which she injured a knee. She did admit that there were times when flight conditions were difficult enough to suggest a precautionary landing - but there was nowhere suitable to set down. Elsewhere she complains that, unlike the swans she flew with, she was unable to stave off the cold by flapping her arms about. A brave and modest person.

BBC Radio 4 - PM, 06/12/2016 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0848md3)
[start at 40:30]

More details here:
'Human swan' describes navigating thunderstorms and battling temperatures of -25C during 4,500-mile trip (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/05/human-swan-becomes-first-woman-cross-channel-paramotor-migrating/)

And here:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjr_sitzODQAhWqKsAKHe2LBrEQFggaMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pressreader.com%2Fuk%2Fthe-guardian%2F20161206%2F281608125056345&usg=AFQjCNGcSwn0IUtLTiD-exi_NpgPGlq0rQ

The Old Fat One

6th Dec 2016, 21:43

Take, for example, her claim about flying at '10 (or 25) feet or below' over breeding whales.
I don't know whether that was filmed from the chase plane/camera ship or not.
I do however very much doubt the veracity of that TCT story, particularly, as we know, Ewald would have been in the front seat.

If you the review the thread you'll see I was one of the first to take exception to this particular boast, which I heard first hand on the BBC breakfast radio show. My qualifications to make an observation on this subject - 5000 hours maritime and qualified sea-survival instructor.

Not everyone agreed with my input (fair enough) and some saw it as thread drift - also fair comment. I settled my "outrage" by contributing a thread on ditching in the forum, which - mostly - seemed reasonably well received.

But wait! As always with BIAB, the plot thickens. Some time later I was researching on Nylon Films and found the trailer for "The Aviatrix"

Nylon Films Home (http://www.nylon-films.com/blank-1)

In it (at 1.02) you will see guess what? The Whale Clip.

Now I can't be sure (editing innit) but it does not look "open ocean" (more like one wingtip over the beach) and therefore my earlier comments don't really apply (can't say fairer than that, can I) but it certainly does not look in 25 feet bracket either. More like a hundred feet plus. So once more our BiaB seems to be getting carried away.

And just for the absolute record (I just checked) she claims to fly quote 25 feet over the sea over the whales, and 10 - 20 feet over some lake unquote.

Before everybody rushes off, buckets at the ready, to check the clip...could I point out the details really don't matter.

Professional aviators do not talk like a character in a Biggles book every time sometime points a microphone or camera at them. Period.

PS Haven't seen the whole film, it looks beautifully made though, can't fault Nylon films for putting on a good show, that's their job.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

6th Dec 2016, 23:23

For the new joiners, this is her cringe-worthy speech to RAeS Australia. Skip the rubbish and head for around 19:30 onwards. TCT's description of the Victoria Falls and Entebbe yarns. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA6EBVunxnM

I too had doubts about these events actually happening but I believe it was Sam Rutherford that confirmed they did.

At 23:00 is the clearest indication of Ewald's role; to get her in and out of airports. So not just a passenger as claimed.

Also, it is within this clip she says she has not remotely interested in technology (11:00) and makes mention that the sponsorship has amounted to the £1 million mark. That alone would have paid for 100+ PPL's

When she speaks she exhibits the body language traits of someone who is being economical with the truth. Someone mentioned earlier about the importance, or lack of, of her wearing RAF wings. As a stand-alone issue it is not that major (I do find it offensive, others may not) but when you add it all up it comes down to what Barry Tempest said in that she is a boastful lady and needs bringing down a peg or two.

piperboy84

7th Dec 2016, 05:34

SWB Quote: When she speaks she exhibits the body language traits of someone who is being economical with the truth

I'd say it's more like making it up as she's going along and quite possibly completely away with the fairies. But she's a good public speaker even if the subject matter is complete bollocks.

The Old Fat One

7th Dec 2016, 06:14

Really didn't want to comment again...but, just can't stop it seems.

I watched the first 3-4 mins of SWB link. You know what I spotted...zero humour...not a whiff. The subject matter is 100% me, myself and I. Most of the people in that audience will have lost interest in her about the time I did.

Paid public speaker...not on that evidence...not in a million years.

And yeah your right...I taught public speaking too (military and civil)....yawn....sorry

Above The Clouds

7th Dec 2016, 06:39

SWB Quote:

I'd say it's more like making it up as she's going along and quite possibly completely away with the fairies. But she's a good public speaker even if the subject matter is complete bollocks.
Personally I find her speeches very random in format and difficult to concentrate on.

She side tracks all the time attempting to make the subject more dramatic than it actually is, talks in riddles attempting to make it humorous, as for messing with her hair, touching her face and fiddling around in general, dammed irritating.

Finally she always has to try and set the scene as though she has just rushed in from somewhere after rebuilding the stearman or scrambling off in some dramatic way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA6EBVunxnM

piperboy84

7th Dec 2016, 07:27

27/09

7th Dec 2016, 07:35

Just noticed something on the vid, she says she's never done an instrument rating, but if I remember correctly she said somewhere else she was an instructor in NZ. Is it possible to get a instructor rating without an instrument ticket ?Most certainly you can.

Professional aviators do not talk like a character in a Biggles book every time sometime points a microphone or camera at them. Period.
Very true, but who ever accused her of being professional? :E

The big sin, as far as I'm concerned, is that she'd been loudly telling the world that she had done that (and other very naughty things) - and gotten away with it.
What kind of message does that send to impressionable youngsters who might consider taking up flying?

What message does it send to anyone hearing this b*l*s*it about what are and what aren't acceptable practices in aviation.

Chris Scott

7th Dec 2016, 11:27

Guys,

Having just watched the video, I have to disagree with some of your criticisms of Ms Curtis-Taylor's performance. She speaks for half an hour, apparently without an auto-cue or even notes. Her delivery and articulacy, and in particular her use of language, are excellent throughout. She is an enthusiastic and lucid story-teller, and evidently knows something about old aeroplanes and engines. Notwithstanding my prior knowledge of her journeys and what she was likely to be saying, and all the stuff that she found it expedient to leave out, I had no difficulty in maintaining concentration from start to finish. I wouldn't attribute any detrimental significance to her body language, not that I'm a student of Desmond Morris...

The issues I found the most jarring in the content of her speech included the evident (and inevitable) priority to promote Boeing, the overuse of the first-person singular, and the attempt to spice-up the story by offering disarming admissions of basic breaches of flying rules on successive occasions - often deliberate. Also, although she admits to having lacked originally much natural ability as a pilot, she does not relate any incidents in which she might have benefited from more experience or better flying skills. The few mentioned she blames on petty, arbitrary regulations that unnecessarily impeded her mission, which she implies was entitled to special treatment wherever it went.

To her credit, she devotes some time to telling eloquently the tales of Amy Johnson and, to a lesser extent, Mary Heath, and how these two pioneers inspired her from early on. However, her dismissal of the concept of using a "Moth" to recreate Lady Heath's Africa-UK flight (which was, of course, not flown in one) included the rather gratuitous comment: "if you've ever flown a Moth, it's a fairly overrated experience." [9:15] Not sure any de-Havilland admirer could forgive her for that one...

Occasionally she lapses form the first-person singular into the plural, in all-too-brief recognition of her large support team. But at no point in her tale is the presence in the air, or even the assistance on the ground, of her engineer-mentor recognised. Thus the whole narrative is discredited.

9 lives

7th Dec 2016, 11:43

included the rather gratuitous comment: "if you've ever flown a Moth, it's a fairly overrated experience."

Oh dear, so TCT chose not to recreate the celebrated event with authenticity, because she thinks a Moth is overrated. Perhaps the Moth is not exaggerated enough to suit her needs. I've flown them both, and I would prefer flying the Moth. In 1980 I was a very junior participant in the latter stage of a cross Canada air antique rally, which included a Moth. You could always pick those two pilots out crowd after arrival, as they had the biggest smiles!

Chris Scott

7th Dec 2016, 16:34

To finish the above quote:

"...nothing like flying a Boeing Stearman. [Points to photo of same flying near Ayers Rock.] Nice, big, roomy cockpit; great ailerons; good in crosswinds; you know it's just a... lovely aerobatics."

9 lives

7th Dec 2016, 17:29

lovely aerobatics.

An important attribute to consider when choosing an alternative model aircraft to recreate a long distance cross country flight!

Mike Flynn

7th Dec 2016, 21:02

Sir Niall Dementia

7th Dec 2016, 21:31

A Moth is over rated???

I did my ppl on a Tiger. The adverse yaw taught me the correct use of my feet. After the Tiger I flew the wonderful DH60 Gypsy. The handling was gorgeous after the Tiger and far better than the Stearman.

The Stearman needed pushing to where I wanted it, the Gypsy responded to a delicate touch and positively purred when stroked.

Both Lady Heath and Amy Johnson flew DH60's However I found this recently.

"An interesting story from that flight is that when she requested the British Air Ministry for a plane to lead her across the Mediterranean sea, she was denied.

Not to be defeated, she asked Benito Mussolini for an escort plane. He agreed on the condition that she share her experiences with him. In failing health in her last years, Lady Heath was destitute when she died."

The link is here Lady Sophie Mary Heath (1897-1939), Pioneer Aviatrix (http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/heath.html) so maybe British aviation's Waltess in Chief"s flight was more authentic than we thought.

I do wonder though, when will she answer the questions asked? And apologise for her trashing of GA?

SND

Genghis the Engineer

7th Dec 2016, 23:15

Despite my criticism of TCT's exploits I actually think that she missed her vocation.

She has an ability to engage with an audience without doubt hence her sponsorship and awards.

I have watched a few of her media interviews and she sells the story well.

Sadly this story was a bit over egged.

If she really believes in outreach then a few years in working with the Missionary Aviation Fellowship might convince me she is committed.
https://www.maf.org
Those of us of an atheistic persuasion, might be less impressed by that particular ability to travel the world convincing gullible people of the truth behind their fantasies.

But you are quite right - if she actually did something useful, like the huge amount of outreach that some people do do, I think that the world would look far more kindly upon her.

G

Chris Scott

7th Dec 2016, 23:18

Quote:
"Both Lady Heath and Amy Johnson flew DH60's "

FWIW, I read some time ago (as previously mentioned) that Lady Heath used an Avro Avian for her Cape Town to Croydon flight, and this article seems to confirm it:

Mary Heath: The Life and Sad Demise of ?Lady Icarus?-The Forgotten Aviatrix ? Nerdalicious (http://nerdalicious.com.au/history/mary-heath-the-life-and-sad-demise-of-lady-icarus-the-forgotten-aviatrix/)

According to Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Avian), it was probably her Avian III with an 84 hp Cirrus Mk II engine.

terry holloway

8th Dec 2016, 20:36

A couple of quotes from the article about Lady Heath...
I fail to see how those facts about Lady Heath are of any relevance to this thread about TCT.
On a point of detail, and to get things absolutely correct, she was either: Mary, Lady Heath or Lady Heath. She was never Lady Mary Heath!

Quote:
"Both Lady Heath and Amy Johnson flew DH60's "

FWIW, I read some time ago (as previously mentioned) that Lady Heath used an Avro Avian for her Cape Town to Croydon flight, and this article seems to confirm it:

Mary Heath: The Life and Sad Demise of ?Lady Icarus?-The Forgotten Aviatrix ? Nerdalicious (http://nerdalicious.com.au/history/mary-heath-the-life-and-sad-demise-of-lady-icarus-the-forgotten-aviatrix/)

According to Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Avian), it was probably her Avian III with an 84 hp Cirrus Mk II engine.
There is a very good book about Lady Heath called Lady Icarus.
She certainly used an Avian on her trip from South Africa, but she certainly had flown "Moths".

megan

9th Dec 2016, 00:05

She was never Lady Mary HeathThe title "Lady" before the Christian name is borne by daughters of Dukes, Marquesses and Earls. This lady's title derived from her husband's baronetcy, so she should be called "Lady Heath".

TCT would not have been able to use a "Moth", since Ewald would have been sitting where the extra fuel tank for the necessary range would have been.

pilotmike

9th Dec 2016, 08:28

terry holloway saidMary, Lady Heath or Lady Heath. She was never Lady Mary Heath!....
There is a very good book about Lady Heath called Lady Icarus.
Would that be Lady Mary Icarus, or Lady Icarus Heath?!

AlsoI fail to see how those facts about Lady Heath are of any relevance to this thread about TCT.
That is unsurprising, given your very evident - others might say blinkered - support of T C--T. Many others might find the similarities quite striking, and would think T C--T quite astute for noticing the similarities, and telling anyone who will listen how she follows in Lady Heath's footsteps.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

9th Dec 2016, 09:26

I agree with pilotmike here, those quotes about Lady Heath with only minor substitution (partner for husband) etc match perfectly what I know about TCT.
However, that is private background information and I won't divulge any more.

I am led to understand that Terry knows TCT better than I, so his comment about relevancy is surprising. That description of a self-promoting individual who is out to further their own aims and ambitions is spot on.

LOMCEVAK

10th Dec 2016, 09:04

Stanwell

10th Dec 2016, 09:55

Lomcevak,
Your 300ft estimate looks to be pretty right. Thanks for your trouble.
However, as had been noted earlier in this thread, the distance fixed-wing aircraft are required to keep from whales is 1000ft.

So, not only are we dealing with TCT's subsequent inane embellishments on this particular score (10 or 25ft etc), but the silly girl has
recorded her blatant rule-breaking on a publicly released film. :D

What were you doing while this was going on, Ewald?
Oh, that's right, you were only a passenger. :ok:
.

LOMCEVAK

10th Dec 2016, 10:38

Stanwell,

If you look at that piece of video, from the landing gear leg angle it appears that the filming took place from the front cockpit. Therefore, if EG was in the front cockpit he was the cameraman and therefore well aware of the relative position of the whales and most certainly not just a passive passenger!

terry holloway

10th Dec 2016, 13:23

Re #3000 and the Nylon Films link. The clip over the whales was, based on a comparison of the size of the mainwheel and the shadow wingspan, filmed from approximately 300 ft. If anyone wants it more accurately, give me the diameter of the wheel and the distance front the front cockpit eye height to the centre of the mainwheel and I will refine the calculation!

The RAF wings in the pictures posted are, I think, Mess Kit wings with a King's crown i.e. pre 1952. It will be medal miniatures next!
In which case it appears that there is nothing wrong with wearing the wings which are effectively either a talisman or a brooch.
It appears that many service wives/girlfriends/ partners wear something remarkably similar on frocks/blouses/jackets/coats. That is very acceptable and certainly isn't fraudulent.
As for the Whales where does it say you can't fly over them at less than 1,000 ft?
It's a great piece of film.

BEagle

10th Dec 2016, 13:30

9 lives

10th Dec 2016, 13:34

As for the Whales where does it say you can't fly over them at less than 1,000 ft?

I don't know about the region that TCT was flying, but there are many national regulations in this regard, and for my experience, most say 2000 feet above. Buzzing whales is certainly not permitted. This should absolutely not be an element of any publicity, mentoring or outreach, it sends entirely the wrong message. A, that wildlife is being disrespected, and B, that low flying is okay, particularly over water, where the risk to safety because of possible ditching is increased.

Jonzarno

10th Dec 2016, 13:36

it appears that there is nothing wrong with wearing the wings which are effectively either a talisman or a brooch.

Is that what Ms Curtis-Taylor is saying? Personally, I don't think that saying the wings are a "talisman or a brooch" will run as an excuse. She is wearing them on a flight suit in the position they would be worn by a genuine RAF pilot.

As you were kind enough to offer to ask her: is there any news from her about the other two questions?

Good Business Sense

10th Dec 2016, 13:42

Assuming the lady can fly the aircraft and assuming the chap in the front wasn't there to provide a CPL then I'm thinking the insurance company needed him there - bit like ferry insurance when you need experience of the route.

LOMCEVAK

10th Dec 2016, 14:08

Terry,

Mess Kit wings are only to be worn by RAF Qualified Service Pilots (QSPs) on Mess Kit; they are not a casual adornment that may be worn by their partners (there are specifically manufactured brooches for that case) and they are not attached to any other form of dress, even by those who are RAF QSPs. Also, the version to be worn should have a King's/Queen's crown appropriate to the gender of the monarch at the time at which they were awarded. As a retired RAF officer, I would have expected you to have been aware of that.

Some of the background and scenery in the film is indeed wonderful, including the whales. However, in my opinion the context determines that it is NOT a 'great piece of film'

terry holloway

10th Dec 2016, 14:27

Terry, as you weren't actually a pilot in the RAF, you probably don't understand the faux pas involved in wearing an actual RAF pilot's flying badge to which one is not entitled. Nor the outrage which such a thing arouses amongst those who've actually earned their 'wings' the hard way.

Certainly some pilots' wives and partners wore 'sweetheart brooches', but those are entirely different.
I understand the pride in RAF wings only too well. One doesn't serve for 34 years without "getting it"! Also recognise the emotion of pretence, but I do not remotely think she was remotely attempting to impersonate an RAF pilot, and certainly not with that brooch!
What really makes me see red is blatant impersonation of "veterans" either by uniform, insignia or medals. One sees plenty of people doing that in "fancy dress" at Goodwood events and elsewhere, and I really don't think TCT is in that category!

Is that what Ms Curtis-Taylor is saying? Personally, I don't think that saying the wings are a "talisman or a brooch" will run as an excuse. She is wearing them on a flight suit in the position they would be worn by a genuine RAF pilot.

As you were kind enough to offer to ask her: is there any news from her about the other two questions?
That's my opinion not her response to a question!

Jonzarno

10th Dec 2016, 14:38

Ah thanks, I misunderstood! Obviously a triumph of hope over experience on my part! :)

JW411

10th Dec 2016, 14:39

It is not a brooch. It is an official RAF pilot's brevet as designed to be worn by a qualified RAF pilot on his/her No.5 mess kit jacket.

I was awarded my wings in 1962 after two years of bloody hard work and I wore them proudly on my various RAF uniforms until I left the RAF in 1979. I never wore them again but wore other employers' wings as appropriate for the next 26 years.

I really object to seeing someone wearing RAF wings when they are not entitled.

I simply cannot understand how you can refer to them as a brooch. You have let yourself down badly in my estimation.

LOMCEVAK

10th Dec 2016, 14:47

Terry,

If you "do not remotely think she was remotely attempting to impersonate an RAF pilot", why do you think she was wearing RAF pilot's wings?

terry holloway

10th Dec 2016, 15:34

If she sought to impersonate an RAF pilot, she would have worn the proper full size wings, and not an insignia (set of mess kit wings which would never have been worn on a flying suit), that was over 60 years old!
I give up in trying to argue ......!
Like others I cannot and will accept impersonation by people in uniform, but in terms of the wings I do not accept that she was attempting to decieve. Why would she need or want to?
We could start a new thread elsewhere about drone controllers sitting in a poracsbin wearing a flying suit adorned by "RAF issued drone pilot wings" which look like the real thing, notwithstanding that they have never flown an aeroplane. One needs to be very sharp eyed to tell the difference!

It is not a brooch. It is an official RAF pilot's brevet as designed to be worn by a qualified RAF pilot on his/her No.5 mess kit jacket.

I was awarded my wings in 1962 after two years of bloody hard work and I wore them proudly on my various RAF uniforms until I left the RAF in 1979. I never wore them again but wore other employers' wings as appropriate for the next 26 years.

I really object to seeing someone wearing RAF wings when they are not entitled.

I simply cannot understand how you can refer to them as a brooch. You have let yourself down badly in my estimation.
Brooch was in inverted commas to make the point. They are hardly current wings!

Jonzarno

10th Dec 2016, 15:39

Mike Flynn

10th Dec 2016, 15:42

As the thread starter I am now convinced her deception extends far beyond her flights.

Low flying and wearing an RAF brevet are just small components in the whole 'Aviatrix' story

I am puzzled why Tracey,who is clearly an articulate and intelligent woman,did not set out to genuinely emulate Mary Heath and Amy Johnson in a DH.

She really could have reflected how hard it was sitting a Tiger Moth for hours on end with a limited panel.

The broadcast video story would have been a lot more fact than fiction.

Perhaps Amanda Harrison could still do it?

LOMCEVAK

10th Dec 2016, 15:44

Terry,

I say again, why do you think she was wearing RAF pilot's wings? You posted a reply to my previous one did not not answer my question.

ShyTorque

10th Dec 2016, 16:01

I understand the pride in RAF wings only too well. One doesn't serve for 34 years without "getting it"! Also recognise the emotion of pretence, but I do not remotely think she was remotely attempting to impersonate an RAF pilot, and certainly not with that brooch!
What really makes me see red is blatant impersonation of "veterans" either by uniform, insignia or medals. One sees plenty of people doing that in "fancy dress" at Goodwood events and elsewhere, and I really don't think TCT is in that category!

So why does she state that she was trained by military pilots and wear RAF wings on her flying overall?

You are an RAF "veteran" (many of us here are, too), but not an RAF qualified pilot. You "see red" by non-entitled persons wearing uniform, insignia or medals because you earned the right to wear those, but not the RAF wings, so they don't count. Double standards apply, it seems.

BTW, She doesn't wear a "brooch"; it's an RAF flying badge, of the sew - on type. After 34 years you should know that, too.

I got in touch with Ms. T C-T via her own website asking about her entitlement to wear the RAF flying badge. The automated reply was almost immediate, saying she would address my question as soon as possible. That was coming up for two months ago. Obviously, it's not an easy question for her to answer. I'm not holding my breath waiting.

Jonzarno

10th Dec 2016, 16:03

Lomcevak

I think you may have meant "why do you think she was NOT wearing RAF pilot's wings".....

Mike Flynn

10th Dec 2016, 16:28

In defence of TCT I cannot find any reference where she claimed she was "trained by RAF pilots".

There is a claim which has been much edited
In Auckland she earned her private and commercial pilot's licences, and her instructor rating.[4][7] While living in New Zealand, she joined the New Zealand Warbirds and began to fly vintage planes and to learn aerobatics and formation flying.[5]

Previous claims to have been trained by "military" pilots have been removed from her wiki entry.
However I reckon her training was very good.

I understand this was on a Harvard she flew with ex husband Steve Taylor.
Enthusiast gets high on 'aerial Ferrari' thrills | Stuff.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/national/324001/Enthusiast-gets-high-on-aerial-Ferrari-thrills)

She was born Tracey Curtis but the hyphen name Curtis Taylor comes from her ex husband.

Her wiki page reads.....

She initially became interested in aviation while visiting air shows on the west coast of Canada with her family;[5] her father in particular had a passion for vintage cars and planes.[6] She had her first flying lesson at the age of 16, in British Columbia. She started to fly more regularly while living in New Zealand in the early 1980s, first in Queenstown and later at Ardmore Aerodrome in Auckland. In Auckland she earned her private and commercial pilot's licences, and her instructor rating.[4][7] While living in New Zealand, she joined the New Zealand Warbirds and began to fly vintage planes and to learn aerobatics and formation flying.[5]

Aviation career[edit]
In the late 1990s, Curtis-Taylor was involved in the organization of the Flying Legends show at Duxford Aerodrome, England.[7][8]

From 2008 until 2013 she took part in fly-bys at Old Warden Aerodrome in Bedfordshire, England,[9] often flying a Ryan PT-22 military trainer. In 2011, she flew in the Flying Legends show at Duxford Aerodrome.[10][11]
In December 2012, Curtis-Taylor was part of a Russian team flying an Antonov An-2 biplane from Kiev to Cape Town, arriving in February 2013. She flew at the Amy Johnson Memorial Air Show at Herne Bay, Kent, England, in 2015[12] as well as the Cowes Regatta in 2013, 2014 and 2015. With her aeroplane, the Boeing-Stearman "Spirit of Artemis", she was on static display at the Royal International Air Tattoo and the RNAS Yeovilton Air Days in 2013, 2014 and 2015, at the Goodwood Revival / Glorious Goodwood in 2014, at the 2015 Dubai Airshow and the 2014 and 2016 Farnborough International Airshow.

Cape Town to Goodwood flight, 2013[edit]
In 2013, Curtis-Taylor flew a Boeing-Stearman biplane in an eight-week journey, covering over 13,000 km, from Cape Town, South Africa to Goodwood Aerodrome, England.[13] The journey comprised a total of 38 legs and 110 basic VFR flying hours,[9] and followed the 1928 flight of Mary, Lady Heath, from Cape Town to Cairo, Egypt,[7][14] travelling over Zimbabwe, Zambia, Tanzania, Kenya, Uganda and Sudan. One section of Lady Heath's flight, the leg through Libya, could not be completed due to security issues.[5]

The journey took five years to prepare for, including finding a biplane which would cope with the heat of Africa.[5] After a search in several countries, Curtis-Taylor decided to have a 1942 Boeing- Stearman restored.[9] Though much more modern, the biplane was similar to Lady Heath's in size and design, but had advantages such as a more powerful engine, additional fuel tanks,[15] a GPS navigation system, and a transponder for use in controlled airspace.[13] One of the legs of the journey was shared with a retired Royal Air Force Group Captain pilot and historian, Bill Sykes, and sought to locate the site where Lady Heath crash-landed in 1928.[4]

She also sourced sponsors for the trip, including Boeing and ExecuJet Aviation Group.[5] The main sponsor was Artemis Investment Management, and the biplane was hence named Spirit of Artemis.[13]

In 2014, the Light Aircraft Association awarded Curtis-Taylor the Bill Woodhams Trophy for a "feat of navigation, aviation, tenacity and endurance" on her flight from Cape Town to the United Kingdom.[16][17] In October 2016 members of the association voted to rescind the award.[18] In a written statement, Curtis-Taylor said that the rescission vote was the result of an online media campaign by Sam Rutherford, her former logistics manager who had been withdrawn from participating in the journey, and his associates to discredit her flying achievements.[17][19] In newspaper reports Curtis-Taylor has denied making "false assertions about the nature of my flights"[20] and has stated 'To suggest I have hoodwinked the public, deceived all my sponsors, the media, everyone, is just disgraceful'.[21]

Farnborough to Sydney flight, 2015-16[edit]
On 1 October 2015 Curtis-Taylor departed from Farnborough, England, flying Spirit of Artemis, arriving in Sydney, Australia on 9 January 2016.[22] The journey was inspired by pioneer aviator Amy Johnson, who flew solo from England to Australia in 1930. The flight path was across 23 countries in 50 legs.[22][23] She was accompanied by a small support crew in a modern plane who documented the journey.[6][24]

Several stopovers were scheduled into the flight, often with the aim of introducing Curtis-Taylor to local communities and to inspire others, particularly women.[25] In Dubai, the plane was part of the Boeing display at the Dubai Airshow in the United Arab Emirates,[6] while Curtis-Taylor was a keynote speaker at the International Aviation Women's Association conference.[26]

In Pakistan Curtis-Taylor was hosted by Squadron Leader Saira Batool of the Pakistani Air Force,[27] and visited a school in Karachi with Pakistani mountaineer Samina Baig to speak about their adventures and to inspire the children.[28][29] In Singapore, she met with girls and women involved in the UN Women programme Girls2Pioneers, which aims to encourage young women into STEM careers.[25]

In October 2015, she was appointed an Honorary Lieutenant Commander in the Royal Navy Reserve.[30] In May 2016, the Air League presented her with a framed address in recognition of her flight from Farnborough to Sydney.[31][32] In July 2016, the University of Portsmouth, England, awarded her an honorary doctorate degree.[33] Also in 2016, the Honourable Company of Air Pilots awarded her its Masters Medal for her work in "raising awareness of science and technology in general, and aviation in particular, amongst young women across the world".[34]

source
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracey_Curtis-Taylor

Jonzarno

10th Dec 2016, 16:29

The automated reply was almost immediate, saying she would address my question as soon as possible. That was coming up for two months ago. Obviously, it's not an easy question for her to answer. I'm not holding my breath waiting.

Well so far she's 0/3 on the ones I asked, which included the question about the wings.

In an earlier post I suggested that an unwillingness to address these questions would in itself provide an eloquent answer. We are still waiting.

ShyTorque

10th Dec 2016, 16:41

In defence of TCT I cannot find any reference where she claimed she was "trained by RAF pilots".My apology for possibly misquoting that - please substitute "military" for "RAF".

B Fraser

10th Dec 2016, 16:48

Mr Torque Sir,

I think that the actual words used were that she was trained by "military pilots". The truth may be that she did her PPL under instructors who were perhaps ex NZ Air Force. It's hardly worth mentioning unless you are in the business of "bigging yourself up". In the same breath, she mentions that the (ex ?) military pilots trained her to fly "warbirds". If by that she means Harvards then again, the truth is being somewhat stretched. See also her (static) "displays" at Farnborough (parked in a corner behind the catering enclosure).

Yours aye

B Fraser, trained by a (former) RAF display pilot (mate) to fly aeros in a cold war spy plane (aka a Chipmunk).

Mike Flynn

10th Dec 2016, 16:51

Jonzarno

10th Dec 2016, 17:00

is this Holloway guy the best that her PR team could find to defend her honour?

I agree with Jay Sata.

Terry Holloway is a man deserving of respect; and ad hominem attacks of this kind are, in my view, entirely unjustified.

I may disagree with his views on Ms Curtis-Taylor, but I respect his willingness to argue them. I would also point out that he said he would pass on the questions I asked to her, and I have no reason to doubt that he has done so. The decision to ignore them can only be hers.

JW411

10th Dec 2016, 17:02

I'm sorry but the RAF wings that this lady is falsely sporting on her flying suit are indeed official RAF wings and they are identical to the wings that I wore on my RAF mess kit.

The only difference is that she is wearing RAF wings with the King's Crown and mine are quite correctly with the Queen's Crown (perhaps she picked them up at a car boot sale)?

As to your attempted defence of said lady wearing RAF wings when she is not entitled, please re-read where it says in my previous posting:

"You have let yourself down badly in my estimation".

That means:

"You have let yourself down badly in my estimation".

I strongly suspect that you are protecting your six o'clock and I can't blame you for that.

B Fraser

10th Dec 2016, 17:13

perhaps she picked them up at a car boot sale

I would wager that they came from the same source as the Hon Lt Cmdr RN Reserve. Only time, and possibly the tabloids, will tell.

terry holloway

10th Dec 2016, 17:40

I would welcome such an answer from Terry Holloway.

Having first crossed swords with him on the letters page of Pilot magazine I have come to respect his career and bravery to post on this forum.

Indeed his input to the Kirk Africa issues deserves serious compliments.

Just google Terry and you will see his career is worth admiration.

In my humble opinion the TCT Aviatix story will not disappear if the National Geographic TV channel air the upcoming documentary of her Farnborough to Sydney flight.

The problem she now faces is part of the reason the sponsors got on board that expedition was a return in positive publicity.

If you were sitting in a typical 10.00am global programme production in meeting in London how would you sell the airing of the Aviatrix?

Could you admit it was all recorded on a tissue of lies?

It was not a solo flight! The low flying claims breached aviation laws in many countries where permits and flight plans were breached?

The global press will have a field day revealing the lies exposed on here.
Thank you for your words.
My position is clear:
1. I know TCT, but have seen her only once in the last two years. That was when she called in to The Cambridge Aero Club three weeks ago for just 30 mins to see me and our Chief Test Pilot.
2. I've spoken to her on the phone twice in the last two weeks and as requested have passed on the questions. I really don't know, but I guess she is probably reading this threading any event.
3. I am most definitely not her spokesman, and de facto have not been put up to anything by her PR team. ( actually I think that's her but I really don't know!)
4. I happen to think that notwithstanding any emotion by RAF pilots about "their" wings, she was not trying to "pretend" to be an RAF pilot by wearing that badge, and I dare say that if anyone had told her it was wrong she would have removed it. I bet she is not wearing it now!
5. I hope that one day TCT will herself, either here or elsewhere, respond to the questions which I simply cannot answer.
6.I've not heard her talk in public, but someone I respect heard her talking In public fairly recently,( I don't know where or when, and it doesn't really matter to me), and said she spoke very enthusiastically and very well, and that there was no reference to solo flight. As I recall it,that was the issue which Sam Rutherford and Jay Sata highlighted in the first instance, and I seem to think she has apologised for any "misunderstanding" About that, and particularly in the media. I agree, she should have corrected those misleading and inaccurate "solo" reports at the time.

Jonzarno

10th Dec 2016, 17:56

Terry

Thanks for this: it makes your role in this perfectly clear :ok:

I've spoken to her on the phone twice in the last two weeks and as requested have passed on the questions.

Thanks also for confirming that you have done that: I can't ask you to do more.

We can but draw the inevitable conclusion from Ms Curtis-Taylor's silence.

Mike Flynn

10th Dec 2016, 18:16

I endorse Jonzarno's comments and once again I must praise Terry Holloway for his candid and honest posts.

I would expect nothing less of a retired RAF officer. His efforts with Kirk say a lot about him as a man.

However Tracey appear to still wants to lie about her endeavours.

If I was in her shoes I would delete the whole wiki page. Nothing worth noting there and no history. The entry may come back to haunt her.

In December 2012, Curtis-Taylor was part of a Russian team flying an Antonov An-2 biplane from Kiev to Cape Town, arriving in February 2013. She flew at the Amy Johnson Memorial Air Show at Herne Bay, Kent, England, in 2015[12] as well as the Cowes Regatta in 2013, 2014 and 2015. With her aeroplane, the Boeing-Stearman "Spirit of Artemis", she was on static display at the Royal International Air Tattoo and the RNAS Yeovilton Air Days in 2013, 2014 and 2015, at the Goodwood Revival / Glorious Goodwood in 2014, at the 2015 Dubai Airshow and the 2014 and 2016 Farnborough International Airshow.

"..part of Russian team flying an Antonov AN2 from Kiev to Cape Town"

She has no Russian licence and was a passenger.

'Static display?
on static display at the Royal International Air Tattoo and the RNAS Yeovilton Air Days in 2013, 2014 and 2015, at the Goodwood Revival / Glorious Goodwood in 2014, at the 2015 Dubai Airshow and the 2014 and 2016 Farnborough International Airshow.

Well we can all do that.

Static display...

Here is my old bird at Cobra Station West Australia 1989. Picked her up at Troy Michigan and had a years
fun with no sponsors but an ex wife and two very small kids.
https://s28.postimg.org/yh82ampv1/image.jpg

I guess you might like to look at the old mail run.

https://s17.postimg.org/6lnu8nfqn/image.png

Above The Clouds

10th Dec 2016, 18:34

With all the fore roar regarding the wearing of RAF wings, has anyone for one moment actually considered they maybe only there for advertising along with the other sponsors badges on her grow bag.

http://static.english.pradesh18.com/pix/2015/11/Untitled-13.jpg

She doesn't wear any wings when in the official uniform of the RNR.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTzHyFZcV0eudxMmmbGzIQWfbXpb7uP5f5ssf9doHN gMFC1wyM

Equally comments in the media, changes to her wiki page are almost certainly being made by the PR team and not directly by TC-T herself, has anyone thought maybe she is not in control of the PR team as they are there to make money and TC-T could be a pawn in an otherwise money making machine hence no public comment from TC-T other than on a Facebook page and website that she probably doesn't edit or control.

Thought it might worth re-posting this as I don't believe there was ever a satisfactory conclusion, was she wearing the wings along with the other badges as part of the advertising campaign ?

Jonzarno

10th Dec 2016, 18:49

was she wearing the wings along with the other badges as part of the advertising campaign ?

Well, it should be easy enough to get the RAF to confirm that they asked her to wear a set of pre-1953 wings as part of their sponsorship....... :hmm: :confused:

Mike Flynn

10th Dec 2016, 18:56

I don't think Tracey knows what a hard days flying feels like.

More importantly I doubt she has ever felt the stress of owning an aircraft and coping alone and funding it when it all goes wrong.

Pretty much summed up by the magic quote to Sam Rutheford during the Africa trip...

"What could be more important than getting my luggage to the hotel".?

We have two interesting threads running on long distance flying.

If I had to pitch a tv reality documentary tomorrow it would be Two Pilots In an Aeroplane.

Kirk and TCT.:ok:

In answer to the post by Jonzaro

Well, it should be easy enough to get the RAF to confirm that they asked her to wear a set of pre-1953 wings as part of their sponsorship.......

A Freedom of Information request will get the reply.

I would suggest they confirm the era of the brevet.

Jonzarno

10th Dec 2016, 19:03

In answer to the post by Jonzaro

A Freedom of Information request will get the reply.

I would suggest they confirm the era of the brevet.
I have to confess that I had not taken the original question entirely seriously, and my response was made with my tongue tucked firmly in my cheek...... :)

FlyingGoat

10th Dec 2016, 19:09

Jonzarno

10th Dec 2016, 19:13

I don't think Tracey knows what a hard days (sic) flying feels like.

Probably knows more than 99% of the contributors to this thread.

Is it frustrating that you've got nothing left to aim your spite at?
It's not a matter of spite. All she has to do is answer three simple questions. The fact that she chooses not to surely provides the most eloquent answer possible to your post.

Mike Flynn

10th Dec 2016, 19:22

Jonzarno states it bluntly.

Three simple questions.

How hard are they to answer?

I still question her wiki page

Please don't have a go at Terry.

he certainly warrants a wiki article.
First Englishman to succeed in Flying Glider over the Andes to Argentina at 27,000ft and at -60 degrees Fahrenheit over Mount Aconcagua in 1996.
His love of all things aeronautical drove Terry Holloway to join the Royal Air Force as an Engineering Apprentice at RAF Halton in 1962.

He received his Commission four years later and served in a wide variety of Royal Air Force appointments in UK and abroad. Terry’s capabilities were recognised with the rank of Group Captain at the age of 42.

Utilising his engineering, logistics, processors and methodology skills he grasped the opportunity to transfer to the business environment after serving in RAF for 34 years, and joined the Marshall Group of Companies. The Group is the UK’s leading privately owned independent aerospace and automotive company and owners of Cambridge Airport.He is responsible for marketing, public relations, community activities and special projects across the diverse global group and has helped it to become the £1 billion turnover company that it is today.

A keen pilot who flew light aircraft and gliders throughout his career, he obtained his Private Pilot’s Licence in 1963 and is a life member of the Royal Air Force Gliding and Soaring Association. Among many other private interests and honorary positions, Terry is Vice Chairman of The Air League, and is a liveryman of the Guild of Air Pilots and Air Navigators.In addition to Leader of the Expedition in the month long, high risk glider flight over the Andes to Argentina, (scattered with many aircraft and pilots who had not succeeded), Terry further displayed his endurance capabilities and flying when he accomplished a solo light aircraft flight from Cambridge to Seattle in 2000, and a flight to the north of Norway in 2005.

He celebrated the 50th anniversary of his first solo flight on 21st March 2011.Recognised as an aviation expert and aviation historian, he regularly appears on TV and on radio to talk about topical aviation matters, and is frequently guest speaker on cruise ships talking about a wide range of aviation topics, including the Development of the Jet Engine, Unusual Flying Machines, the Genius of R J Mitchell and Flying Boats.

As a University Business Academic, Terry is invited to talk to a number of Cambridge University Departments, which has included the Judge Institute of Engineering, Lake Forest and Rutgers University in the USA and to some MBA courses.

Pretty hard to argue with that!

Which begs the question regarding her wiki entry which is fictional comparing the above.

As for me?
Just a boring old VFR pilot enjoying global flying.

Ask as many questions as you want.

Mike Flynn

10th Dec 2016, 23:12

Terry has been brave to come here and discuss issues that are well beyond his remit.

A quick google will tell you what he has achieved.

Terry gained his Private Pilot’s Licence at the Luton Flying Club in 1963 having first achieved a “C” gliding certificate. He learned to fly on Austers soloing in 3 hrs 25 minutes and, subsequently purchased a share in a Tiger Moth. Since then, he has flown over 100 types of light aircraft and has been involved in glider towing, parachute dropping, air to air photography, air to ground photography as well as recreational and business flying. He has completed a number of long distance flights in light aircraft including to the North of Norway and the Mediterranean. In 2000, he flew a Piper Aztec from England to the United States down the East coast, across the mid West and up the West coast to Seattle. He has maintained a keen interest in vintage aircraft having flown and operated a de Havilland 87b Hornet Moth and Tiger Moths over a number of years.

He holds a Civil Aviation Authority Display Authorisation, is a highly accomplished formation pilot and has been a regular performer at flying displays throughout the UK. Terry flies on British and American pilots Licences with multi-engined and Instrument ratings, and regularly flies his Company’s PA27 Aztec, and a variety of light aircraft. He has amassed in excess of 5,500 hours in powered aircraft which brings his total flying experience to more than 8500 hours, in 193 different aircraft and glider types.

We may differ on opinions re TCT but I cannot question his experience.

Sadly he has no Wiki entry!

Pilot DAR

10th Dec 2016, 23:43

Mr. Holloway is as welcomed a contributor as everyone else, and entitled to his opinion, as is everyone else. Let's not expect him to speak for Ms. Curtis Taylor.

Jonzarno

11th Dec 2016, 07:17

Mr. Holloway is as welcomed a contributor as everyone else, and entitled to his opinion, as is everyone else. Let's not expect him to speak for Ms. Curtis Taylor.
I certainly don't expect him to do speak for her. He agreed to ask her the three questions, confirmed that he has done so and that's it as far as I am concerned.

It would be great if Ms Curtis-Taylor could be persuaded to answer for herself. Sadly there seems to be little sign of that happening, which seems strange given her apparent willingness to reach out and address so many other audiences. :confused: :hmm:

Mike Flynn

11th Dec 2016, 07:46

She avoided the British Women Pilots Association Christmas dinner although on the agenda to appear and talk.

terry holloway

11th Dec 2016, 09:40

Jonzarno states it bluntly.

Three simple questions.

How hard are they to answer?

I still question her wiki page

Please don't have a go at Terry.

he certainly warrants a wiki article.

Pretty hard to argue with that!

Which begs the question regarding her wiki entry which is fictional comparing the above.

As for me?
Just a boring old VFR pilot enjoying global flying.

Ask as many questions as you want.
Jay, you are generous in your words, but Googled info is often inaccurate!
I have flown solo a lot and flown many long flights,but the Seattle flight in 2000 was in an Aztec sharing the flying with a friend.
I led the First RAF gliding expeditition to Chile in 1996 and the coldest it got - I think - was -40c! It was very cold! Other Englishman might have been there before us but the Chileans didn't know!
There would have been a big feature about us (5 RAF glider pilots - all non RAF professional aircrew, including two corporals!) in The Sunday Mail when we got back, but the IRA blew up the City of London and that stole the news!

mary meagher

11th Dec 2016, 19:48

Terry Holloway, alas, the Sunday Mail feature all set to tell about you and your fellow RAF glider pilots who flew over those chilly Andean mountains back in 1996 suffered from the same fate as did the story about Harriet Quimby way back in 1912.

She flew SOLO in her Blierot monoplane across the channel from England to France in 59 minutes. Another news item took priority over her story....the Titanic sank the day before and grabbed all the headlines.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

12th Dec 2016, 13:30

In a similar vein and an attempt to prevent the key questions getting lost in recent posts, here they are again.
Honest answers should have been easy to provide, which is why I firmly believe there has been, and continues to be, deliberate deception. The questions we want answering are not difficult questions.

Same with Portsmouth University and the FOI request, if it was clear-cut I would have expected a reply by now. The 22nd December they have been given is a deadline-date, not a target date.

1. What is the reconciliation between Ms Curtis-Taylor's well documented claim to have flown her african flight "solo" (Please see the video clip published earlier in this thread in which she personally makes that claim) and her subsequent public statement that the flight was not solo?

2. Given the above, what was she doing in the picture of her published earlier in this thread standing in front of a huge picture claiming she had been "Alone in an open cock-pit [sic] plane"?

3. By what authority, and with what qualification, does she wear RAF wings?
*******
In addition I would like answers to the following

- When exactly did the sponsorship requests begin?
- What did the investors THINK they were getting?
- When was it decided that these would not be a solo flights?
- Why was the solo aspect dropped?
- Were the sponsors informed of this material change?
- If so, when?
- Why was it felt necessary that the front seat would be occupied for the vast majority of the journey by Ewald?
- What steps did TCT take to correct the many SOLO headlines?
- Where is the evidence to show this even happened?
- Why, many months after the return to the UK, was TCT perpetuating the SOLO claim?

piperboy84

12th Dec 2016, 14:12

I appreciate you trying keeping things on message SWB, but I think you're pissing into the wind as we all know the answers to those questions and the person you want a response from can't answer them accurately without showing that the whole thing was a fraud from the get go, which she isn't going to do. I think she will keep her head down till this whole thing blows over then look around to see what her marketability is on the after dinner speakers circuit. I doubt very much there will be any more "expeditions and outreach" as commercial sponsors aren't going to go near her, the Herne Bay vid and the "Alone" photo put paid to that.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

12th Dec 2016, 14:28

I see the sentiment but we don't know the answers, we can only guess by her evasion what they will be. The pissing-into-the-wind metaphor works well, it does seem like we are on a futile task ...at the moment, but time will come when the wind direction changes.

It is a real shame that honest answers are not forthcoming because I see that as the only way she can regain any credibility, show she has integrity, and use her story-telling talents to good use. Ok, she messed up, rode the glory and got rumbled; admitting that then she would be free to move on and perhaps do some real "outreach". She may even be able to get corporate sponsorship if she is honest and open at the start as to her intentions.

TCT, there is still a dignified way out of this mess. Hiding won't work, this won't just blow over.

ShyTorque

12th Dec 2016, 14:59

History won't be as kind as she might have once hoped.

Jonzarno

16th Dec 2016, 18:53

Is there any news from the Portsmouth University F.O.I. request?

BEagle

16th Dec 2016, 21:09

The latest edition of the Company's 'Grip and Grin' gazette Air Pilot includes a review of the Trophies and Awards Banquet.

Merely listed as 'unable to attend' was T Curtis-Taylor. There was no other report regarding her award...that was all.

Mike Flynn

16th Dec 2016, 21:18

She failed to attend the BWPA (British Women Pilots Association) annual dinner as well.

However I have private gold plated info that Prince Michael has played no part in her so called Aviatrix story.

So I wish to withdraw any suggestion he played a part in promoting her Royal Navy status.

It is important that innocent parties are not drawn in to this debacle.

From gold plated other sources I can assure readers of this thread Boeing Aircraft Corporation were key players in assuring she got her awards from the Air League and the Honourable Company Of Air Pilots.

I understand some key players in those organisations
were not happy but Boeing got their way.

In May 2016, the Air League presented her with a framed address in recognition of her flight from Farnborough to Sydney.

A framed address is a minor recognition but here is the problem.

"Her flight from Farnborough to Sydney"

What exactly does that mean?

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

16th Dec 2016, 22:57

Is there any news from the Portsmouth University F.O.I. request?
I have had nothing back yet but this afternoon I e-mailed them a polite reminder with this:
Just a polite reminder that the Freedom of Information request I submitted on 24 November 2016 has not yet been answered.

Authorities should regard the 20 working day limit as a ‘long stop’, in other words the latest possible date on which they may issue a response.
It also follows that an authority which provides its response close to, or on, the final day of the 20 working day limit ought to be able to both account for, and justify, the length of time taken to comply with the request.

Kind regards

Sam Rutherford

17th Dec 2016, 05:23

Is it perhaps not time to let this thread go cool/cold unless there is actually any new information?

Just a thought...

Cheers, Sam.

Midlifec

17th Dec 2016, 11:35

SWB, did they ever acknowledge receipt of your request?

Might they be playing for time, and hoping to claim the 20 days has not yet started?

Have they not now perhaps shut up shop for xmas...

terry holloway

17th Dec 2016, 21:59

Is it perhaps not time to let this thread go cool/cold unless there is actually any new information?

Just a thought...

Cheers, Sam.
Well said Sam!

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

18th Dec 2016, 13:28

SWB, did they ever acknowledge receipt of your request?

Might they be playing for time, and hoping to claim the 20 days has not yet started?
They acknowledged the FOI request with this:

Dear xxxxxxx

I refer to the email that you sent to the University's Press Office today, making a Freedom of Information Act request. Your request has been forwarded to me to handle.

As you have correctly mentioned in your email, the University has 20 working days in which to respond to your request and therefore you will receive a further reply by 22 December 2016 at the latest, although if it is possible to respond before then, we will do so. Should you need to contact me before then however, please feel free to do so either by replying to this email or by telephoning me directly on 02392 nnnnnn.

Yours sincerely

S....... H...
Information Disclosure and Complaints Manager
University of Portsmouth

They are fully aware of the 22 Dec end-date and it would be rather embarrassing for them if such a simple request resulted in a breach of the FOI Act. Not a lot can be done if they do run late but deliberately withholding material information or changing information that is held is a criminal offence.

Right Hand Thread

18th Dec 2016, 22:08

After only a light skim of the quote in airpolice's post.

Tracey was also shadowed by a small support crew comprising a pilot and cameraman, who travelled behind her in a light modern aircraft, to record the epic flight across three continents.I think at times it was the other way round.

Later Tracey returned to the UK and became a commercial pilot and a flying instructor.I don't think she holds a UK CPL or Instructor Rating. They were from New Zealand.

the first female pilot to be based at the historic Shuttleworth Collection, at Biggleswade in Bedfordshire.
My understanding, and I'm willing to be corrected, is that she 'only' had an aircraft based there. Rented hangarage if you will. Surely a female pilot must have done so there before the the end of the 20th century?

G-KEST

18th Dec 2016, 22:47

Much as I completely agree with Sam and Terry on this matter.
My instinctive reaction to elements of the post by Air Police was utter astonishment - it read
"But her real passion was for vintage aircraft and warbirds. In 1997 she helped organise Duxford’s Flying Legends air shows and later became the first female pilot to be based at the historic Shuttleworth Collection, at Biggleswade in Bedfordshire".

I understand from high level sources at both Duxford and Old Warden that her efforts at those aerodromes did not meet the required standard and she was invited to leave which is shorthand for being chucked out. She rented hangar space at Old Warden but was never a 'Shuttleworth' pilot; I believe Clare Tector is the only female pilot ever to have been one.

"Today she lives in Cambridge, UK, working predominantly with historic aviation and air show organisation."

I know not and care not where she lives. But I am not aware that she has any involvement in UK historic aviation or airshow organisation here in the UK.

9 lives

18th Dec 2016, 23:24

My instinctive reaction to elements of the post by Air Police was utter astonishment

It is these multiple and important misrepresentations, and the seeming zero effort to be accountable for correction/retraction which leave me feeling that the topic should not just fade away. I have believe that TCT is well aware of the concerns raised in these pages, and yet nothing in terms of correcting all of the wrongs.

Though I do not see this as a "legal" matter, I do see it as an offense against aviation peers. As a member of the aviation community in the larger sense, I don't feel that it's right, or fair to we peers that TCT could simply remain silent, accept accolades and speaking engagements as though nothing is wrong, and just let it all blow over by ignoring it.

If TCT were a quiet private citizen, and something were "off" about her aviation exploits, that would be one thing, but TCT has eagerly stepped into the public spot light many times, and represented us. In doing so, she has to be held to a high standard. The public simply does not know any better, but we, her peers do. In my opinion, it is our responsibility to the less familiar public to take action to maintain truth and honour in aviation, rather than just let wrongs fade into the shadows because the accused will not answer the multiple expressions of concern.

brakedwell

19th Dec 2016, 19:04

That ia a very clever way to slither out of the mess as it implies she was alone in the Stearman when she wasn't. I don't think she will ever admit to her deceit.

SFCC

19th Dec 2016, 20:23

I'm a bit bored with all this mess now.
She told a few mis-truths, insinuated lots and got well and truly rumbled soon afterwards.
Her name is now mud and will forever be so.
My life is hugely too short to get carried away on a witch hunt.

She is a Walt par excellence, undoubtably.
Can we just leave it at that now please?

Oh, and we all know very well that she isn't part of Shuttleworth, or indeed anything at all in the big wheels of the UK airshow industry.....

An end now please, or have you lot not finished stirring?

Jonzarno

19th Dec 2016, 21:10

I disagree, for two reasons:

Firstly, we should continue to push for clear answers to the questions that Ms Curtis-Taylor continues to refuse to answer.

Secondly, and just as important, we should continue to shine a bright light on the institutions such as HCAP, Portsmouth University and others that continue to try to defend their actions in honouring somebody who seems unwilling to answer those questions thus indicating that the awards that they have given her may have been based on false premises.

With respect: if you are bored with this, can I suggest that you just stop reading the thread?

hobbit1983

19th Dec 2016, 22:17

With respect: if you are bored with this, can I suggest that you just stop reading the thread?

I can highly recommend this, I did.

Hang on a minute... Dammit.

Stuart Sutcliffe

20th Dec 2016, 06:14

Right Hand Thread:
I don't think she holds a UK CPL or Instructor Rating. They were from New Zealand.
As of early November 2016,the opening line of TC-T's Wikipedia page used to include this statement:

"Tracey Curtis-Taylor (born 1962) is a British aviator who has worked as a commercial pilot and flying instructor in New Zealand."

As others on this thread have pointed out, ever since this controversy began, that Wikipedia page has been constantly and regularly edited by people very sympathetic to TC-T. The quote above has now disappeared entirely - why? Probably because it is not entirely truthful.

Contrarily, in this (http://www.jetgala.com/story_201627_07-Wings_TRACEY-CURTIS-TAYLOR.html]this[/url]) interview with JetGala magazine TC-T boldly states:

"I love the early planes. It’s completely romantic and whimsical but that’s my approach to flying. It became a hobby. I’m not interested in modern procedural flying. I’ve never been a professional flyer. I’m just an enthusiastic aviator."

I'd be surprised that anyone who has gained the qualifications necessary to earn a living from flying, would then deny ever having been a professional flyer? I suppose there is an outside chance that she perhaps did the exams necessary for the issue of a CPL, maybe even passed the appropriate flying tests for a CPL, but was never hired by any commercial outfit. However, given TC-T's apparent track record on claims about her flights, I think there is plenty of doubt about her supposed commercial qualifications. We only have her say-so on it, but if anyone can prove otherwise, this forum would be grateful to see the evidence. But I don't think anyone is holding their breath. After all, all TC-T's biographical details, be they on gushingly-worded award certificates or scattered around the internet, seem to have been cut and pasted from the same, single source - TC-T herself.

terry holloway:
I understand the pride in RAF wings only too well. One doesn't serve for 34 years without "getting it"!
Sadly, despite your years in the RAF and affinity for aviation, I don't think that you really "get" anything about this sad saga, be it the deceit or anything else.

terry holloway:
I give up in trying to argue ......!
Well, your position to stand on shaky ground almost certainly accounts for your frustration, but it is self-inflicted. You might like to think that the majority here will also give up, but I very much doubt they will, because the facts are clear and plentiful. Perhaps you prefer to take comfort in the immortal words uttered by Steven Fry's character, General Melchett (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIJ92NbW82M), in the final Blackadder TV series:

"If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through."

Good luck with that, Melchie! :ok:

27/09

20th Dec 2016, 08:49

I think there is plenty of doubt about her supposed commercial qualifications.

So far as I'm aware there is no doubt about her having held a New Zealand CPL and Instructor Rating. I think you'll find evidence of her having held these qualifications in early posts on this thread.

One person who has posted on this thread does know.

I am pretty sure she did work at an Ardmore based flight training establishment for a short period of time. How long for and how much work she did is another question. There may be info on this in early posts in the thread, I don't remember and cannot be bothered looking.

I'd be surprised that anyone who has gained the qualifications necessary to earn a living from flying, would then deny ever having been a professional flyer?

I agree, and find this assertion very difficult to fathom.

Stuart Sutcliffe

20th Dec 2016, 13:31

So far as I'm aware there is no doubt about her having held a New Zealand CPL and Instructor Rating. I think you'll find evidence of her having held these qualifications in early posts on this thread.
I'll admit to not having seen the early pages of this thread for several weeks, so apologies if I have that wrong.

But ...... why then excise it from your record? Or is the constant Wikipedia biographical editing evidence of a 'PR team' frantically attempting a damage-limitation exercise, with correct detail also falling victim to a very broad axe swung in panic? :suspect:

piperboy84

20th Dec 2016, 14:06

I'd be surprised that anyone who has gained the qualifications necessary to earn a living from flying, would then deny ever having been a professional flyer?

Don't know about that, I've got a CPL and never ever considered flying for reward. In FAA land the CPL is not a big deal, its really just a glorified PPL check ride with a few chandels and lazy 8's thrown in. The Instrument and Instructor tickets on the other hand require a bit effort.

The only time I trumpet the Commercial Pilot thingy is in the pub and usually around birds who are thinking Boeing while I know all along its C172.:)

Mike Flynn

21st Dec 2016, 05:08

I see her current wiki entry omits all mention of the LAA.

In October 2015, she was appointed an Honorary Lieutenant Commander in the Royal Navy Reserve.[30] In May 2016, the Air League presented her with a framed address in recognition of her flight from Farnborough to Sydney.[31][32] In July 2016, the University of Portsmouth, England, awarded her an honorary doctorate degree.[33] Also in 2016, the Honourable Company of Air Pilots awarded her its Masters Medal for her work in "raising awareness of science and technology in general, and aviation in particular, amongst young women across the world".[34]

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

22nd Dec 2016, 21:33

For those who have followed this saga from the start, what follows will be of no surprise.

You may recall that I e-mailed Portsmouth Uni regarding the honorary award to TCT. Their response was one of denial that it was for aviation exploits and a polite FO and stop bothering us reply.

Dear ######,

Apologies for the delay coming back to you.
We are sorry that you feel disappointed the University has awarded an honorary degree to Tracey Curtis-Taylor. However, we did not make this award to her on the basis that she had completed solo flights or explicitly because of her activities within aviation. The award was primarily due to her longstanding commitment to outreach activities that support good causes such as services charities, education and young people.
Best wishes,
########

and
Dear ######
As we have already stated, the University made this award to Tracey Curtis-Taylor not only on the basis of her flights and other activities within aviation, but also based on her enduring commitment to activities in support of outreach and education, her work with charities and with young people, which we accede. While we appreciate you have strong views about whether she is a suitable role-model, they are your own. We have no further comment to make on this subject.

Kind regards
#### (###### is on leave this week)

I have now had a response to my FOI request. The University have failed to meet the requirements of the request but have been open in what they responded with. The most damning piece is the letter from the Vice Chancellor. See attached document "190 Annex B Invitation Letter pdf".

Dated 16 Feb 2016, and signed by the Vice Chancellor para 2 states:

"The Committee would be delighted if you would agree to attend and receive an honorary degree in recognition of your recent inspirational 13,000 mile solo flight from Farnborough to Sydney. There is much admiration for your outstanding achievements, both in your recent flight and your 2013 flight between Cape Town and Goodwood."

So, there you have it, in their own words, signed-off by the VC, an award for SOLO flights. No mention at all of any outreach, role model, STEM encouragement. I conclude that the award, like the Bill Woodham Trophy, was issued on a lie and should therefore be removed.

Have a read of the attached and you can see that the information supplied to Portsmouth has come from Tim Kelly / TCT.

Thoughts please Ladies and Gentlemen.

Mike Flynn

22nd Dec 2016, 22:06

Many thanks for your efforts Satco which has revealed the part Tim Kelly has played in this saga. An award for a solo flight that never happened and from the Engineering School.

This from the Vice Chancellor
Dated 16 Feb 2016, and signed by the Vice Chancellor para 2 states:

"The Committee would be delighted if you would agree to attend and receive an honorary degree in recognition of your recent inspirational 13,000 mile solo flight from Farnborough to Sydney. There is much admiration for your outstanding achievements, both in your recent flight and your 2013 flight between Cape Town and Goodwood."

Below is the letter awarding her the honourary degree. Why was Tim Kelly copied in?
https://s28.postimg.org/g8tg8w1cd/image.png

brakedwell

22nd Dec 2016, 22:21

Thoughts please Ladies and Gentlemen - That damn word solo keeps appearing and she has had ample time to correct it, but didn't. To add insult to injury Portsmouth University has let itself down and the Vice Chancellor should be ashamed of himself.

Mike Flynn

22nd Dec 2016, 22:30

More here

One has to ask the question why PR man Tim Kelly is copied in on all these letters?
https://s23.postimg.org/l4b4bb62z/image.png

Mike Flynn

22nd Dec 2016, 22:39

The question now is how the Vice Chancellor,Graham Galbraith can justify this award?
Dated 16 Feb 2016, and signed by the Vice Chancellor para 2 states:

"The Committee would be delighted if you would agree to attend and receive an honorary degree in recognition of your recent inspirational 13,000 mile solo flight from Farnborough to Sydney. There is much admiration for your outstanding achievements, both in your recent flight and your 2013 flight between Cape Town and Goodwood."

It appears the Vice Chancellor of Portsmouth Poly fell for the same trick as the Master of the Honourable Company of Air Pilots Chris Ford.Added to the debacle the current Master ,Peter Benn ,defended the award to TCT putting her her on the same status as Tim Peake. Once again I copy the letter from Chis Ford below.

I hear rumours that HCAP carried out no checks on the claims submitted by her PR team. This was followed by an attempt by the next Master to cover the mistake hence the redrafted citation.

He must have felt that admitting the mistake would cause embarrassment to the HCAP?
https://s24.postimg.org/rnl3pqi9x/image.jpg

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

22nd Dec 2016, 23:41

One has to ask the question why PR man Tim Kelly is copied in on all these letters?

Maybe because it was TK that brought TCT to their attention. (I do wonder if he is the mystery "member of staff")

Tim Kelly worked for/with/partnered Portsmouth Uni as part of the Velux 5 yachting challenge. The contacts have been established before TCT taxied into view. As a PR man it would be an easy step to promote the latest marketable product to an old ally.

VELUX 5 OCEANS partners up with the University of Portsmouth (http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/150291)

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/timkellycommsconsultant

piperboy84

23rd Dec 2016, 10:28

TCT quoted in Satco's attachment:

"I am very, very grateful for this. It feels as if I am finally breaking free of the shackles of life and fulfilling a destiny that was always meant to be"

Please, please oh mighty one I beg of thee, doth tell me my eyes are deceiving me

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

23rd Dec 2016, 10:31

Thanks Airpolice :ok:
I know my place.
none of you lot who are whinging have any decent degree or letters after your name, so you must be just ordinary people.

I have the letters BSc after my name on my CV. Only when pressed for more details do I reveal it is my Bronze Swimming certificate ;)

Portsmouth Uni have cut this very fine and technically are in breach of the FOI act but my quarrel is not with them. They have provided the key letter that highlights why the award was given. I have written back asking that they provide the reminder of my request without any undue delay but realistically I cannot see that happening until after the New Year when the topic for discussion will be Tracey Curtis-Taylor OBE :ugh:

I have requested that my reply be forwarded to the Vice Chancellor and I have asked if, given what we have now seen from them, they will reconsider their position and the award to her.

hunterboy

23rd Dec 2016, 11:12

The sad thing is that it devalues these awards for those that deserve them. There will the whiff of bull**** and spin anytime that honours are handed out.

9 lives

23rd Dec 2016, 11:33

I think Airpolice was just trying to inject some humour to a rather sad situation. I'll read his/her post as satire, and not be worrying about the letters after my name...

Clearly, Tim (forked tongue) Kelly has done his utmost to correct the SOLO part by persuading the HCAP and now Pompey Poly to change their story and paperwork to fit the recently uncovered facts.

... change their story and paperwork to fit....

To my recollection, on every occasion when a sporting award issued, was later found to be undeserving, it was stripped from the athlete, and none too politely either. Lance Armstrong, doped Russian Olympians, and Ben Johnson the runner come to mind. In my opinion, a university (institution of intellect and research!) has a much higher standard to maintain in issuing its awards than a sporting group - who right now seem to be the standard of honour. That's a bit embarrassing for the university.

No, TCT has not done everything she could do to correct the situation, she has the option (and invitation) to avail herself of the same media who reported her lies to have them report her truths, rather than quietly changing things in the background, in the hope that it won't be noticed.

And what is this PPRuNe witch hunt accomplishing? Well, whether TCT ever honours up or not is one thing, but at least the next aviation liar to be will think twice about it! Apparently, right now, members of PPRuNe are upholding the standard for truth in piloting which the HCAP and Portsmouth University will not! Perhaps in the future those and other organizations will recall the PPRuNe search for truth, and do their homework before issuing awards!

piperboy84

23rd Dec 2016, 11:43

If the VC is worth his salt he's going to realize his staffs due diligence was lacking and Tim Kelly flat out misled him leaving rescinding the degree as the only option. I'd imagine the Southern Echo newspaper would have a few questions for him, the awards committee and Tim Kelly as they were completley hoodwinked also.

Jonzarno

24th Dec 2016, 06:29

So now we have it.

Portsmouth University confirms that they gave Ms Curtis-Taylor an honorary degree based on a "misunderstanding" of what she actually did.

Although she has admitted elsewhere that her flights were not solo, she failed to point this out to those responsible for granting her award and quietly accepted her degree on what looks very like false premises.

So, as an honourable institution with a reputation to safeguard, what should Portsmouth University do? They have two choices:

1. They can do what they have done so far and pretend that the award was made on the basis of "achievements" different from those disclosed in the FOI information.

If they do that, they will simply look increasingly stupid in the eyes of anyone who reads the facts either here or, probably in the not too distant future, in the local or national press. That problem can only be exacerbated when SWB finally prises from them the remaining information covered by his FOI request.

2. They can admit that they made a mistake and either rescind the award or, perhaps better, have a quiet word with the recipient and suggest that she might prefer to hand it back. Doing that would reassert their ethical standards, protect their reputation, and come across as facing up to having made an honest mistake.

I have to say that the second option is the one I would go for as it shows the University as having behaved correctly when the true facts have come to light; and puts the responsibility for what happened firmly where it belongs.

If anyone in the TCT team thinks that this is wrong: I would remind them of the challenge that I and several other posters here have made repeatedly:

Please answer the Three Questions.

Either do so convincingly, or apologise and offer to hand back these awards, and the whole problem goes away; fail to do so and it will continue to stalk you and blight all of your reputations.

G-KEST

24th Dec 2016, 15:38

May I wish Tracey a forgettable Christmas and a more truthful and apologetic New Year in 2017.
Perhaps Santa will bring her an industrial dose of scopolamine, or whatever that truth drug used by interrogators is called. I do hope so. At least Santa is flying solo, though Rudolf may assist occasionally with navigation to zillions of chimney pots.

Mike Flynn

24th Dec 2016, 16:33

And a very happy Christmas Mr T. You really have a way with words:ok:

I recall she had some scathing comment for you earlier this year so I guess (like me) the Christmas card has not arrived.

My advice to TCT is to reflect on this from her Times interview.

She admits she could have done more to correct misleading reports that made liberal use of the phrase “flying solo”.

“I wish we’d sorted that misreporting out but I can’t do everything all of the time,” she said.
source Tracey Curtis Taylor - Aviatrix, Adventurer, Inspirational Speaker (http://www.birdinabiplane.com/times/)

So why did she not confess to Portsmouth University that their letter of award for solo flight needed correction?

Satco posted this question earlier.
Dated 16 Feb 2016, and signed by the Vice Chancellor para 2 states:

"The Committee would be delighted if you would agree to attend and receive an honorary degree in recognition of your recent inspirational 13,000 mile solo flight from Farnborough to Sydney. There is much admiration for your outstanding achievements, both in your recent flight and your 2013 flight between Cape Town and Goodwood."

So, there you have it, in their own words, signed-off by the VC, an award for SOLO flights. No mention at all of any outreach, role model, STEM encouragement. I conclude that the award, like the Bill Woodham Trophy, was issued on a lie and should therefore be removed.

TCT and her PR man Tim Kelly were both in receipt of this letter last April.

The Times article contained this She estimates she was alone in the aircraft for about 10 per cent of the time, with guest passengers for 20 per cent and with Ewald Gritsch, her Austrian engineer, for the rest.

In addition to Jonzarno's question I would like to know why you accepted the honorary Doctorate from Portsmouth University Tracey which clearly cites it was in recognition of what they honestly perceived to be solo flights?

Some of you may question why we keep this thread going and digging deeper.

Portsmouth University is a public body. They have a responsibily to be honest and truthful in awards.

Hunterboy sums the issue up well.
The sad thing is that it devalues these awards for those that deserve them. There will the whiff of bull**** and spin anytime that honours are handed out.

B70

24th Dec 2016, 19:33

Much of this thread has focussed on lies, bad flying and the dubious wearing of service ‘wings’ – but this is all mere detail. The TC-T story is not about a bold, adventurous aviator, nor is it just about a grade-A narcissist flying across the world on a 5-star jolly. It is about a well-funded business arrangement between Bird in a Biplane Ltd and, principally, Artemis and Boeing, along with other lesser-known organisations. The aim of the project was to generate publicity for the sponsors and Tim Kelly energetically orchestrated this – sometimes, it would seem, a little too energetically.

Now we wait with baited breath - will the TC-T PR machine have nobbled the organisation responsible for dishing out NY Honours ………… or have they got the message in time? Will they have learned from the mistakes made by Portsmouth University, HCAP and others?

And what now for Tracey? I note that her Facebook/Twitter postings have been dormant for the past two months and the Facebook ‘comments’ facility has now been locked; I can’t see any recent additions to her website either. She seems to have gone very quiet just lately.

piperboy84

24th Dec 2016, 20:43

Imagine the fun of overturning that, it puts the LAA vote (victory) in the shade.

It normally takes frauding or kiddie fiddling to get an OBE pulled off you, bull****ting on the other hand seems in some circumstances to be a plus when they dish out gongs.

G-KEST

24th Dec 2016, 21:25

I was happy to take on Tracey at the LAA AGM and we won. However I draw the line at taking on Her Majesty if she feels able to award some honour to her citing some of her PR claptrap. God willing the powers that be will heed the situation..... but maybe not. The honours system has given rise to a fair amount of criticism over recent years. I do hope this will not give rise to more. Because I am a Royalist and proud of it. I took an oath of loyalty to the Crown 70 years ago in the Scouts and it still stands.

pilotmike

25th Dec 2016, 17:08

T C--T's Wiki entry currently reflects the misinformation (lies directly put to them by her over-zealous PR team???) upon which her honourary degree was awarded:In May 2016, the Air League presented her with a framed address in recognition of her flight from Farnborough to Sydney.[31][32] In July 2016, the University of Portsmouth, England, awarded her an honorary doctorate degree, based on the misunderstanding that her journeys had been flown solo: "...in recognition of your recent inspirational 13,000 mile solo flight from Farnborough to Sydney.", as cited by Graham Galbraith, Vice Chancellor, University of Portsmouth, in his letter dated 16th February 2016, flights which she now concedes were not flown solo. [33]
I wonder how long the team of ruthless editors - indeed censors - will let this inconvenient truth remain, as it doesn't sit comfortably with the story they want told, much more along the lines of:
Also in 2016, the Honourable Company of Air Pilots awarded her its Masters Medal for her work in "raising awareness of science and technology in general, and aviation in particular, amongst young women across the world".[34]

Haraka

26th Dec 2016, 07:16

#3110 (permalink)
pilotmike

Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 267
T C--T's Wiki entry currently reflects the misinformation (lies directly put to them by her over-zealous PR team???) upon which her honourary degree was awarded:
Quote:
In May 2016, the Air League presented her with a framed address in recognition of her flight from Farnborough to Sydney.[31][32] In July 2016, the University of Portsmouth, England, awarded her an honorary doctorate degree, based on the misunderstanding that her journeys had been flown solo: "...in recognition of your recent inspirational 13,000 mile solo flight from Farnborough to Sydney.", as cited by Graham Galbraith, Vice Chancellor, University of Portsmouth, in his letter dated 16th February 2016, flights which she now concedes were not flown solo. [33]
I wonder how long the team of ruthless editors - indeed censors - will let this inconvenient truth remain, as it doesn't sit comfortably with the story they want told,

Yup! Speedily( in panic ? ) removed as below:
Latest revision as of 19:16, 25 December 2016 (edit) (undo)
185.69.144.92 (talk)
(Undid revision 756612822 by 2A00:23C4:8591:1600:219:E3FF:FE0C:3930 (talk) this is original research, is not permitted)

Dear reader ( and I know there are very many of you) if you haven't already done so, I do recommend your reading the TC-T Wikipedia page. Do look at "View History", to witness the almost innumerable modifications and deletions, before finally settling down with a glass of the seasonal to read ,in "Talk", the hilarious ( and inept) textual gymnastics attempting to obfuscate well sourced and rationally constructed analysis. Doubtless you will draw your own conclusions regarding the ongoing continuation of this clumsily mismanaged and now inevitably escalating PR farce.

piperboy84

26th Dec 2016, 10:25

Looks like Tim Kelly missed a trick, the attached link is a list of bio's for the women who do outreach, mentoring on STEM subjects to the kids at the girls2pioneers group in Singapore, the same group TCT shared her wisdom with. The women listed are highly accomplished professionals who collectively have more degrees than a thermometer in their chosen professions. Surely 60 minutes of me, me, me warrants recognition by inclusion on the list?

http://unwomensg.wixsite.com/girls2pioneers/ambassadors

Danny42C

26th Dec 2016, 14:26

I've been and amused and fascinated follower of this unfolding story for a long time. It occurs to me to point out that "there is no new thing under the Sun". It has all happened before (106 years ago, to be precise).

Google: "The Dreadnought Hoax", select Wikipedia, read and enjoy. Particularly apt is this snippet from ("Zanzibar Hoax at Cambridge"):
...The Mayor wanted the student sent down but was persuaded by the Vice-Chancellor that this would damage his reputation further.[1][2]...
Ring any bells ?

And "Abyssinian Hoax on the Dreadnought", might interest certain Flag Officers of the Royal Navy (and RNR !) - not to mention the Honours Committee and a Royal Personage.

Like G-KEST (#3109), 76 years ago, I swore to ".....defend his Majesty, his heirs and successors, in person, Crown and dignity....." (which some might think impugned by this association).

'Nuff said.

Danny42C.

MacLaren1

28th Dec 2016, 13:08

Victoria Beckham "delighted and humbled" to be receiving a gong - any word of TCT?

When Googling Tracey Curtis Taylor and "news" - one gets

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=tracy+curtis+aviator&oq=tracy+curtis+aviator+&aqs=chrome..69i57.9407j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=tracey+curtis+taylor&tbm=nws

...which is news flurry of her being stripped of her award.

G-KEST

28th Dec 2016, 18:29

With all due respect, I think I did my bit in getting her LAA award rescinded. There has been enough adverse publicity about Tracey to torpedo her ambitions and I know of many in far higher places than where I reside who share my views. I will leave taking on the Honours system to others on this thread who have devoted hours, if not days, of time posting to the thread. If you have the bottle...get on with it.
A happy New Year to one and all, except Tracey who should roast in hades for all her untruths and exaggeration.

eckhard

28th Dec 2016, 20:48

I say KEST, a bit harsh don't you think?

I for one feel it would do us all good to FORGIVE her for her undoubted transgressions. Maybe she will then feel more encouraged to 'fess up?

If any legal proceedings are warranted then have at it; but whom amongst us is entirely innocent of any exaggerations, or of basking in any non-deserved limelight?

I agree that awards made under false assumptions should be withdrawn but she hasn't killed anyone.

Happy New Year!

BillieBob

28th Dec 2016, 21:45

Forgiveness requires confession and repentance, neither of which is apparent in this case.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

29th Dec 2016, 02:00

I for one don't wish TCT any ill-will at all, nothing personal but a wish to see the record set straight and any undeserved awards rescinded, refused or returned. I hope TCT has a great New Year and uses it to make a fresh start and actually do some outreach and not just hobnobbing for her own gain.

Portsmouth Uni have been shown as trying to fudge the issue, the letter from the VC saying the award was for 13,000 mile solo flight and not, as has more recently been claimed, for outreach/role-model blah blah blah.

HCAP took a different tack and amended the citations; it is shame a FOI request cannot be applied to them too just to see EXACTLY what was said about her and the justification for the Master's Medal.

As for NY honours list.
Bear in mind that it is only a strong rumour that TCT has been put up for an award... but any award proposed and any citation raised would make no mention of solo flight. It will have been rewritten as many times as her wiki page to ensure it is strong enough to pass muster but vague enough to avoid detailed scrutiny. Personally I would like to think that the chance of an award is zero simply because I would expect those that have the power to grant these awards have the common sense and imagination to see the potential for massive future embarrassment.

If the Honours and Appointments Secretariat have done their job then the controversy surrounding TCT will have been seen, discussed, and judged. This, in my opinion, should leave them with three potential options:

a) Give an award.
b) Postpone the award.
c) Not issue any award.

Given the aforementioned controversy then the first option would certainly be foolhardy and therefore unlikely. The honours system is already under scrutiny for how it has been conducted in the past and I cannot see anyone wanting this situation to attract even more high-profile negativity.

The second option does give all sides a chance to put forward facts and produce verifiable evidence. Although we have done this many times, TCT has yet to do so; even answering those simple questions often repeated in this thread would be a start. Plus, I have it on good authority that a proposed Queen's Birthday award had been "put on the back burner" for these reasons. Given that since that occasion no supporting evidence has come from the BiaB/TCT camp but plenty more deception and back-pedalling has been brought to light, then I would think this too is unlikely.

This just leaves the third option as the easy way out. It guarantees no future (honours) embarrassment based upon the weak claims and lies that have come from TCT herself. It also leaves the way open for her to be justifiably rewarded if she does go on to bigger and better things.

The ragged green woolly jumper with BiaB and the Spirit of Artifice emblazoned across it is beginning to look like it has been dragged around the world behind the Stearman. It, like this saga, is unravelling with appreciable pace and there are still plenty more loose threads to be pulled. Any one of these could result in the "so much egg on so many faces" scenario hinted at earlier in this thread.

I'll leave you with this mental image; if TCT wants to avoid a facial omelette, she needs to tell the truth. :eek:

and on that note...

I wish you all a great 2017 :ok:

Jonzarno

29th Dec 2016, 07:42

A happy New Year to one and all, except Tracey who should roast in hades for all her untruths and exaggeration.

Sorry, G-Kest, but that goes too far for me: I agree with Eckhard on this.

Ms Curtis Taylor continues to drag her name through the mud by trying to ignore the justified criticism arising from her failure to address the criticism of her apparent exaggeration of her "achievements ". But, as far as I know, that's ALL she has done. She hasn't hurt or killed anyone nor committed a criminal offence.

She deserves every bit of the opprobrium she continues to receive for what she has done; but that is ALL she deserves. No more, no less.

I hope she has a great 2017, starting with the realisation that a resolution to tell the truth is the quickest and easiest way of putting this mess behind her and moving on. I think she would be surprised at how positively such a step might be received by most of those criticising her now.

Sam Rutherford

29th Dec 2016, 08:19

I posted some considerable time ago (months, if not years) that a simple and full apology would make the whole thing to away, and the dinner speaking engagements return.

Something along the lines of: "I'm really sorry, I got carried away with it all and made claims that I shouldn't have made. I just hope that the positive aspects of my journeys continue to help young people into aviation..".

I think that would kill the criticism, and this thread, dead. Even now.

Safe flights in 2017! Sam.

Clare Prop

29th Dec 2016, 12:39

I can't see anything positive about it though Sam, quite apart from the claims of doing this solo she has belittled some true pioneers and those who have earned RAF wings, calling herself a "bird" (What century is she living in?) who "needs a drink" and happily admits to breaking rules, a condescending attitude towards African ATC, the list goes on and on; if there had been people in that helicopter she taxiid into they would have been killed; this hardly makes her a role model.

She was someone who made a TV reality show and her reality was that we "brave" little women can't manage without a massive team of men to back her up. Most of us women pilots don't want to be told "you've done so well, for a girl" we are just getting on with it, in my case training the next generation, men and women, makes no difference. What makes a difference is things like scholarships (I wouldn't have been able to get where I am without one) something to go towards the harsh reality of paying for flying training. How many scholarships could all that money have paid for? Outreach my :mad:

Some research would have been nice, I saw a vid of her giving a talk, saying people like Amy were "breaking records" no, they were the first and there was some very substantial prize money, but they had to finish the flight before they got the prize. Big difference from having corporate sponsors.

In July Fedor Konyukhov broke the record for fastest circumnavigation in a balloon, SOLO. In August 18-year-old Lachlan Smart became the youngest person to fly around the world SOLO. Paraplegic Dave Sykes flew a microlight SOLO from England to Australia. These are the achievers who deserve recognition.

Sorry mods for not coming up with anything new. This has been really annoying me for a long time. :*

Sam Rutherford

29th Dec 2016, 12:47

Whilst I agree with the overwhelming negatives, it is not that there have been ZERO positives. For right or wrong, I am sure that there are some kids out there who are now considering aviation as a career who beforehand were not.

Best to agree to disagree on this though - certainly not worth more discussion! :-)

Danny42C

29th Dec 2016, 13:04

Sam Rutherford,

I am in complete agreement with your #3121. This would clear the air and enable us to make a fresh start. I might also add that it is very generous of you (having regard to your Posts: p.3, #46 and p.116 #2310 on this Thread).

I have listened to Miss Curtis-Taylors presentations, and there is no doubt that she is a charming, fluent and engaging speaker who would captivate any audience. A pleasure to listen to ! Being of Irish descent, I would say: "She has the Gift of the Gab".

If only we could get hold of the real, true story - I'm sure that that there would be plenty of amusing en-route episodes to make us chuckle - say, "What happened the night when my luggage did not reach the hotel in time ?"

As things stand, most PPRuNers (who know more than a little about aviation) are satisfied on the sorry facts of the case, and are quietly waiting for the whole house of cards to collapse. Then (as has been said): "So much egg ! - So many faces !"

Which ever way the cat jumps, we are in her debt for 3,000 + Posts (and half-a-million + 'hits') to entertain us in a quiet time.

Danny42C.

G-KEST

29th Dec 2016, 17:34

Sam and Danny42C,
I agree wholeheartedly with your remarks. I can only hope that Tracey and her PR machine will read them also and act on them in 2017. But I am not holding my breath for that to happen; as I have become, over the last 78 years, accustomed to the practise.
Have a great New Year.

thunderbird7

29th Dec 2016, 19:27

Absolutely spot on. No need to destroy someone for the sake of it. Some humility would go a long way.

9 lives

29th Dec 2016, 19:43

I too don't want to see TCT drawn and quartered over this, but rather an acknowledgement of the concerns raised, and a change in behavior.

Peripherally, I would hope that HCAP, and the Portsmouth University take solid notice of the concerns raised, and the level of interest in honour among pilots with the way awards are issued. Certainly other institutions must be getting the message load and clear!

Chris Martyr

30th Dec 2016, 15:02

Well , I definitely agree with Barry Tempest's sentiments regarding Ms Curtis-Taylor's fortunes for 2017.
Should she wish to clean up her act for 2017 by acknowledging such commodities as common decency , the truth and maybe just a little recognition of others in aviation who have achieved what they have through hard work and very little back-up then maybe a little respect for her could be afforded.
But until such time that she does this AND can find the time to 'lower' herself into answering the questions put by JZ , SWB and Mr J-S,,,,,,,then I will happily act as Barry's Seconder on this as well .
Happy New Year and a massive "Well Done" to all on here for such a great input.
Will Tracey make 2017 as hard going for herself as she made 2016 ?
Only one person can influence that !

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

30th Dec 2016, 21:42

I guess we can all relax. The NY Honours list is out and our friend TCT is not on it. It does appear that someone on high is listening (watching) to the developments.

Nice to see some old friends get justified rewards though :ok:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/580999/new-years-honours-2017-full-list.pdf

Jonzarno

31st Dec 2016, 08:25

The NY Honours list is out and our friend TCT is not on it.

Although there was a fair bit of speculation here that she might get an award, was there ever any serious indication that she might be on the list? I always thought that the decision process is conducted in strict confidence and that potential recipients are contacted a few days ahead of publication in case they want to decline the award; and are warned that if they tell anyone, the offer will be withdrawn.

terry holloway

31st Dec 2016, 09:03

Although there was a fair bit of speculation here that she might get an award, was there ever any serious indication that she might be on the list? I always thought that the decision process is conducted in strict confidence and that potential recipients are contacted a few days ahead of publication in case they want to decline the award; and are warned that if they tell anyone, the offer will be withdrawn.
Those who speculated an award for TCT, demonstrated their complete ignorance of the Honours system, which is managed by the Honours Nomination Unit in 10 Downing Street, and no advance information is published, other than to the recipient who is asked to confirm that they will accept the award. That letter also tells them to "keep quiet" bout the award until the list is made public. It also raises a question mark over their professed knowledge of other TCT matters which THEY have published on this thread

Jonzarno

31st Dec 2016, 09:26

Those who speculated an award for TCT, demonstrated their complete ignorance of the Honours system, which is managed by the Honours Nomination Unit in 10 Downing Street, and no advance information is published. It also raises a question mark over their professed knowledge of other TCT matters which THEY have published on this thread

Well speaking of question marks, Ms Curtis-Taylor has still chosen not to answer the three simple and specific questions I asked several weeks ago, all of which are based on DOCUMENTED fact:

1. What is the reconciliation between Ms Curtis-Taylor's well documented claim to have flown her african flight "solo". Please see the video clip published earlier in this thread in which she PERSONALLY makes that claim, and her subsequent public statement that the flight was not solo?

2. Given the above, what was she doing in the picture of her, published several times earlier in this thread, standing in front of a huge picture depicting the route and claiming she had been "Alone in an open cock-pit [sic] plane"?

3. By what authority, and with what qualification, does she wear RAF wings? There are several pictures of her wearing them in this thread as well.

As the old saying goes: "What can not speak can not lie".

Some time ago, you confirmed that you had passed these questions on to Ms Curtis-Taylor. So far the silence has been deafening.

terry holloway

31st Dec 2016, 13:04

Well speaking of question marks, Ms Curtis-Taylor has still chosen not to answer the three simple and specific questions I asked several weeks ago, all of which are based on DOCUMENTED fact:

1. What is the reconciliation between Ms Curtis-Taylor's well documented claim to have flown her african flight "solo". Please see the video clip published earlier in this thread in which she PERSONALLY makes that claim, and her subsequent public statement that the flight was not solo?

2. Given the above, what was she doing in the picture of her, published several times earlier in this thread, standing in front of a huge picture depicting the route and claiming she had been "Alone in an open cock-pit [sic] plane"?

3. By what authority, and with what qualification, does she wear RAF wings? There are several pictures of her wearing them in this thread as well.

As the old saying goes: "What can not speak can not lie".

Some time ago, you confirmed that you had passed these questions on to Ms Curtis-Taylor. So far the silence has been deafening.
I did indeed pose the questions some time ago when I was in contact with her, but I believe she is out of the country until the spring next year.

9 lives

31st Dec 2016, 13:13

I did indeed pose the questions some time ago when I was in contact with her, but I believe she is out of the country until the spring next year.

Thank you Terry, for providing the communication on behalf of interested PPRuNers. A reply from TCT would be welcomed even before she returns to the UK, believing that wherever she is, she has access to communication. Why put it off?

Jonzarno

31st Dec 2016, 13:58

Thank you Terry, for providing the communication on behalf of interested PPRuNers. A reply from TCT would be welcomed even before she returns to the UK, believing that wherever she is, she has access to communication. Why put it off?
I would second that. For what my opinion is worth (probably what you are paying for it.... :p) she would do herself a lot of good by having the courage to answer honestly and thus "lance the boil". I think many of her critics might be impressed were she to do so in the right way.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

31st Dec 2016, 16:30

Those who speculated an award for TCT, demonstrated their complete ignorance of the Honours system, which is managed by the Honours Nomination Unit in 10 Downing Street, and no advance information is published, other than to the recipient who is asked to confirm that they will accept the award. That letter also tells them to "keep quiet" bout the award until the list is made public. It also raises a question mark over their professed knowledge of other TCT matters which THEY have published on this thread

Everything that has been posted to unmask the charade can be backed-up. There is much more known than has been published but that is personal stuff (personal to TCT), I am only interested in the facts relating to undeserved awards.

UK Awards process.
Anyone can nominate someone for an award and the nomination goes to the Cabinet Office. Specifically the Honours and Appointments Secretariat on Horse Guards Road.

Whether someone gets an honour - and the honour they get - is decided by an honours committee who will submit their decision to the PM who then submits it to Her Majesty. The Honours committee will conduct very detailed background checks on the potential recipient to make sure that people who have been nominated for honours have not behaved in a way that might harm the honours system. The most basic of checks would be to see what is out in the public domain already : GOOGLE "Tracey Curtis-Taylor" and see what they would have seen.

The person making the nomination will receive a swift acknowledgement from the Honours Committee but it may be 12-18 months before any further action surfaces. Recipients are made aware of the award well in advance but are asked to keep it to themselves. During this long "dormant" period it is not unusual for the odd pending award coming to light.

We are happy to answer any questions from TCT and we can show factual sources to support what we have posted. TCT can take some time to answer the questions highlighted below. That she is not in the UK is not a valid reason for ignoring them...

-What is the reconciliation between Ms Curtis-Taylor's well documented claim to have flown her african flight "solo" (Please see the video clip published earlier in this thread in which she personally makes that claim) and her subsequent public statement that the flight was not solo?

-Given the above, what was she doing in the picture of her published earlier in this thread standing in front of a huge picture claiming she had been "Alone in an open cock-pit [sic] plane"?

-By what authority, and with what qualification, does she wear RAF wings?

*******
In addition I would like answers to the following

- When exactly did the sponsorship requests begin?
- What did the investors THINK they were getting?
- When was it decided that these would not be a solo flights?
- Why was the solo aspect dropped?
- Were the sponsors informed of this material change?
- If so, when?
- Why was it felt necessary that the front seat would be occupied for the vast majority of the journey by Ewald?
- What steps did TCT take to correct the many SOLO headlines?
- Where is the evidence to show this even happened?
- Why, many months after the return to the UK, was TCT perpetuating the SOLO claim?

As for folk on the NY list that I know...work it out. Ex RAF, worked at several fast-jet and training establishments. One mate flies around in a bright red jet, the other was in almost all recruiting posters of the 90's - and not for his piloting skills. (Although he was, and still is, a highly skilled operator).

Mike Flynn

31st Dec 2016, 22:40

Terry Holloway quote I did indeed pose the questions some time ago when I was in contact with her, but I believe she is out of the country until next spring.

By coincidence I am also outside of the UK in KL and Asia until the UK spring/April.

If anyone wants to make contact please message me via Ppprune.Modern communication is a wonderful thing for those who do not have dedicated PR resources.

Kirk seems to have mastered the art in Africa. He appears to have an interesting outreach and support team:ok:

For someone so dedicated to advancing women in aviation the least I would have expected is a response defending the mistruths and media errors.

Happy New year to all who have contributed to this interesting thread.

terry holloway

31st Dec 2016, 23:50

Terry Holloway quote

By coincidence I am also outside of the UK in KL and Asia until the UK spring/April.

If anyone wants to make contact please message me via Ppprune.Modern communication is a wonderful thing for those who do not have dedicated PR resources.

Kirk seems to have mastered the art in Africa. He appears to have an interesting outreach and support team:ok:

For someone so dedicated to advancing women in aviation the least I would have expected is a response defending the mistruths and media errors.

Happy New year to all who have contributed to this interesting thread.
A very Happy New Year!

The Old Fat One

1st Jan 2017, 09:14

I did indeed pose the questions some time ago when I was in contact with her, but I believe she is out of the country until the spring next year.

Well wherever she is she seems to have access to wikipedia and a computer terminal.

Those who speculated an award for TCT, demonstrated their complete ignorance of the Honours system, which is managed by the Honours Nomination Unit in 10 Downing Street, and no advance information is published, other than to the recipient who is asked to confirm that they will accept the award. That letter also tells them to "keep quiet" bout the award until the list is made public. It also raises a question mark over their professed knowledge of other TCT matters which THEY have published on this thread

lol...way to kick off 2017...welcome to the world's thinnest argument.

Happy New Year!

LeicesterH

1st Jan 2017, 11:09

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

1st Jan 2017, 12:47

Edited clips:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZD6IsGmGgw

Full video from which the clips were taken:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpFQmFx7u8c

Jonzarno

1st Jan 2017, 14:07

As you will see this is my 1st post (so please be gentle). As female PPL, I have been following this story with interest. It would be really helpful if someone could point me to the "video clip published earlier in this thread in which she personally makes that claim" - I HAVE tried to find it but there are 157 pages to work through. Many Thanks in advance, H

Welcome to the forum! :)

In addition to the video clip, you may find the image in this earlier post (http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/579030-tracey-curtis-taylor-merged-threads-90.html#post9547442) useful:

The quote at the top is a later "clarification" from Ms Curtis-Taylor; i.e. not what she said at the time.

I hope this helps :ok:

SFCC

1st Jan 2017, 16:17

Blimey. First time I've seen and heard those clips.
What an utter charlatan she is....it can't be denied or avoided.

LeicesterH

1st Jan 2017, 16:48

Thanks all.

B Fraser

1st Jan 2017, 18:11

Here's a link to the accident report where it was declared that Ewald logged the same flight hours on type as TCT.

https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/document.cfm?docID=443945&docketID=59012&mkey=93153

clunckdriver

3rd Jan 2017, 13:42

terry holloway

3rd Jan 2017, 19:24

I recently spent some time in a crew room unable to go anywhere due to freezing rain, there were also four other pilots "claged in" having a conversation regarding this whole fiasco, what I found interesting was the sentiments expressed by these folks, one was obviously a Brit, one Canadian and two Americans if the accents were any guide. The general consensus was that British institutions can no longer be trusted as what were once respected ethical professional organisations are now in the hands of imposters along for a free ride, so it would seem to me that the effects of such dishonesty are wide ranging, this seems like another good reason for the offenders to come clean. From my own point of view I think the senior officers who went along with this mess should be kicked out of the military, in the mean time lets all try to have a great 2017!
That's a rather sweeping generalisation of the TCT "fiasco" as you term it. However, hopefully and presumably "the Brit" stood up for the integrity of his own service and country, as well as that of the "British institutions"? If he didn't he should be ashamed of being one of Her Majesty's representatives abroad. If they were referring to HCAP, The Air League and the Royal Aeronautical Society "he" might have pointed out that their awards were given out for a flight which was not flown solo, and which was advertised from the outset to be a flight with someone in the other cockpit. These institutions also recognised in their awards, a great deal of outreach work and the encouragement of females into aviation. The fact that the media got it wrong and assumed that it was a solo flight, and the fact that TCT was slow in correcting those reports ( I refer only to the Australia flight for which the awards were made) cannot be used to criticise the integrity of those organisations listed. Then that's crew room banter and rumour for you.......!

piperboy84

3rd Jan 2017, 19:41

TH
a great deal of outreach work and the encouragement of females into aviation.

Name one female that received something tangible from this outreach effort other than being an audience member during a talk. A scholarship, flight training, an apprenticeship, engineering mentoring, an internship, a bursary, something !

I'm sure if there was a success story PR man Kelly would have been shouting it from the rooftops.

Sam Rutherford

3rd Jan 2017, 19:45

Please give any example, anywhere, of this:

"advertised from the outset to be a flight with someone in the other cockpit"

9 lives

3rd Jan 2017, 19:51

HCAP, The Air League and the Royal Aeronautical Society "he" might have pointed out that their awards were given out for a flight which was not flown solo, and which was advertised from the outset to be a flight with someone in the other cockpit.

What reason would there be to give TCT an award for a flight in which she was one of two pilots. Was the second pilot for those flights similarly awarded? If not, why not?

I understood the promotion of TCT's flight to "honour" the similar flights of Lady Heath & Amy Johnson- which were solo flights. If a pair of pilots made TCT's flight, with a support crew and aircraft, and modern navigation, what is award worthy of that flight?

terry holloway

3rd Jan 2017, 20:09

Please give any example, anywhere, of this:

"advertised from the outset to be a flight with someone in the other cockpit"
The Herne Bay video was talking about the South Africa flight.
I was referring to the recent awards which were for the Australia fight. The media assumed it was solo, but it wasn't and from the outset that trip was not planned as a solo flight. I speak only for The Air League which awarded a framed certificate on the basis of that flight and for the reasons given. There was no misunderstanding or question in our minds about it being solo, and thus there was no deceit on TCTs part to The Air League. We also thought it was a long and gutsy flight, but I know others have differing views about whether a "dual" flight to Australia at 95Kts is that merit worthy.

Sam Rutherford

3rd Jan 2017, 20:11

Hi Terry,

So, please, show me anywhere that it was:

"advertised from the outset to be a flight with someone in the other cockpit"

I'm interested to see this...

Chris Martyr

3rd Jan 2017, 20:33

Dear Oh Dear,
Looks like old 'Tel' has parked up his shovel and bought a JCB now !

piperboy84

3rd Jan 2017, 21:08

Oh come on then, round 15, someone please post the pic of Mother Theresa stepping out of the Stearman in Oz holding the solo award certificate with a **** eating grin bigger than Dallas.

terry holloway

3rd Jan 2017, 21:11

Hi Terry,

So, please, show me anywhere that it was:

"advertised from the outset to be a flight with someone in the other cockpit"

I'm interested to see this...
It was in her blurb for the trip and on her web site.
The Air League were very clear about the Australia trip not being solo and gave her the framed commendation on that basis. There was no deceit whatsoever. Look at the wording of the awards......!

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

3rd Jan 2017, 21:14

...and this is why the thread never gets boring.

I said before that there were lots of little threads that still required a tug to get them unravelling and this one has been niggling me for some time...

When TCT left Farnborough for Oz she was on her own;why?

Quite simply it was because ALL the media were there to see her off and explaining the second person in the aircraft would have been rather difficult at that crucial phase of the journey. A short, easy, hop across the channel to pick up her pax (out of sight of the cameras) and off THEY toddled to the southern hemisphere. The more it niggles me the more I wonder if she went Farnborough to somewhere more local to pick up her pax and then across the channel.

I would really really really like to get my hands on the GenDocs which should show who was in the aircraft and for which leg(s) of the flight TCT managed on her own (with chase plane either "chasing" or "leading").

If HCAP knew all along it was not solo how come Portsmouth Uni did not have the same information? They too amended their reasons for the award they gave once the crap started to hit the fan, not expecting an FOI request which shows they gave it for a 13,000mile solo flight. One of the early HCAP citations had Ewald as the co-pilot/engineer; how does that sit with her sole pilot claim.

Bottom line is someone has lied and awards and sponsorship have been dished out like smarties based upon these lies.