Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads) [Archive] - Page 8

deefer dog

21st Oct 2016, 23:14

Thanks SATCO, very useful. It seems that the plan was for her then to fly to Vegas, and then Colorado. I really need confirmation of the dates of these flights if I am to confirm my suspicion.

On another note, although I'm sure this has been posted previously, I came upon this little gem. The interviewer (from Pilot mag) asked her...

If you hadn’t been flying solo, who would have been your ideal co-pilot?

and she gleefully sidestepped the issue with this VERY long winded, but ever so convincing dodge of the question....

Although this was primarily a solo flight, certainly at the outset, I often took members of the crew and sponsors with me in the Stearman for reasons of expediency or indeed just so that they could share the experience. I did one flight with Bill Sykes, a retired air force pilot and local historian, who was based in Bulawayo and we tried to find the site where Lady Heath crash landed in 1928.

I also did two wonderful flights with Ian Craig over the Lewa Conservancy where we flew just above tree level, skimming along rivers and through low lying valleys spotting rhino and elephant and the skeletal remains of murdered animals. This is one of the most beautiful parts of Africa, yet it is also a harrowing killing field where a huge 24hr a day conservation effort is being made to try and protect the wildlife from poachers. It was a real eye-opener to see this first hand and to see the fantastic work that the Tusk Trust is doing in these communities.

If I had to choose a co-pilot for my next flight, I think it would be huge fun to take Prince Harry but that might present a few security issues. I have a great friend at Boeing, Rick McCrary, who is a retired SR-71 Blackbird pilot, so a bit of a hero to me. He appreciates how special the Stearman is, so I think he would be top of my list for people to take.fo. I did one flight with Bill Sykes, a retired air force pilot and local historian, who was based in Bulawayo and we tried to find the site where Lady Heath crash landed in 1928.

I also did two wonderful flights with Ian Craig over the Lewa Conservancy where we flew just above tree level, skimming along rivers and through low lying valleys spotting rhino and elephant and the skeletal remains of murdered animals. This is one of the most beautiful parts of Africa, yet it is also a harrowing killing field where a huge 24hr a day conservation effort is being made to try and protect the wildlife from poachers. It was a real eye-opener to see this first hand and to see the fantastic work that the Tusk Trust is doing in these communities.

It was CERTAINLY a solo expedition at the outset - this she makes clear. But nevertheless it remained (she said "was") a solo expedition. She claimed her that she OFTEN took members (plural) of the crew and sponsors for "reasons of expediency or indeed just so that they could share the experience." I wonder who, in addition to Ian Craig and Bill Sykes, got a ride in the front seat - other than Ewald the engineer and very experienced ATPL pilot/instructor?

BatteryMaster

22nd Oct 2016, 00:40

To me, the Ian Craig flights in particular - seeing as there were two of them - appear to have been A-A flights (as opposed to A-B legs as part of the wider trip). Would be interested to know if other passengers/crew members were ever taken on flights that were not merely local flights returning to the same point of departure, i.e. actually covering air miles.

Mike Flynn

22nd Oct 2016, 02:27

Satco...
Searching for TCT reveals hundreds of results but a narrow search can reveal more. e.g this report states she was in Santa Monica 11th May 2016

That was the day the tv station aired the report. I suspect recorded a day earlier?

What puzzles me is what was she doing in Winslow? There is nothing there apart from inhospitable landscape.

Flagstaff is a GA airport nearby and has a much longer runway than Winslow.

They had spent the day filming in the Grand Canyon.

The pilot added that earlier in the day, they had flown three flights, totaling about 5 hours of flight time. The flights included uneventful takeoffs from two airports with a higher density altitude.http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20160511X13726&ntsbno=WPR16LA106&akey=1

Which airports are they? Dare I suggest Grand Canyon National Park (6608amsl) and Flagstaff (7014 amsl)

11th May
Stunning scenery as we fly past the #GrandCanyon and push on East today to #Mesa #Phoenix #Arizona Boeing Company #AdventureisGREAT#USA2016
Surely from the Grand Canyon to Mesa she would be flying south west?

This was the day of the accident.

On May 11, 2016, about 1710 mountain standard time, a Boeing B75N1, N56200, was substantially damaged during a forced landing following a partial loss of engine power during takeoff initial climb at the Winslow-Lindbergh Regional Airport (INW), Winslow, Arizona. The airplane was registered to 3G Classic Aviation LLC., and operated by the pilot under the provisions of Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91. The private pilot and her passenger were not injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and no flight plan was filed for the personal flight. The cross-country flight was originating at the time of the accident with an intended destination of Phoenix, Arizona.

I can only assume it was a fuel stop after filming in or around the Grand Canyon.

On departure it was a short flight at the end of the day and they must have been planning to night stop in Phoenix? It appears flights were not always to the next point on the route but for additional air to air work.

By her own admission in many reports the Spirit of Artemis was often flown very low for dramatic effect on the film they were making.

Could this accident have been caused during such low level air to air work?

This was late afternoon on what according to the report had been a very busy day and after five hours flying the pilot must have felt tired.

megan

22nd Oct 2016, 07:36

Is Ms Curtis-Taylor now claiming to have flown the whole journey to Darwin solo, as per her stated mission - still included on her websiteChris Scott, video of TCT arriving in Darwin. Should answer the "solo" question.

tcvYB3TNQnc

27/09

22nd Oct 2016, 07:59

It would be very telling to see what all the PR info sent to each of the media outlets said about the solo status of these flights.

Where did the reporter for that video piece get the solo info from, especially since it's obvious from the video that flight wasn't solo.

I know it's normal to pull radials through prior to start, but after a flight? Was that and the oil check also hammed up for the camera too.

Mike Flynn

22nd Oct 2016, 08:16

The info came from the press releases.

I got James Dunlevie at the ABC to correct the story below later.
Adventurer Tracey Curtis-Taylor's England-to-Australia flight a homage to aviation pioneer Amy Johnson - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-02/female-solo-flight-a-homage-to-aviation-pioneer-amy-johnson/7064324)

Editor’s note (June 1, 2016): An earlier version of this story suggested this was a solo flight. It has now been updated to clarify Ms Curtis-Taylor was the only pilot to fly the vintage bi-plane, but she had a support team of engineers travelling with her in a separate aircraft, as well as a camera crew, who would sometimes sit in with her.

BEagle

22nd Oct 2016, 09:11

And yet the photo is still captioned:

Adventurer Tracey Curtis-Taylor speaks to media in Darwin after her 20 day solo flight from England

:rolleyes:

BobD

22nd Oct 2016, 10:46

Just arrived for the LAA AGM, and TCT is here ! This should get interesting.......

Sam Rutherford

22nd Oct 2016, 10:47

Hi Bob,

Could you note down anything she says about me?

Thanks! :E

Mike Flynn

22nd Oct 2016, 10:56

Will I get a mention?

I hope Barry Tempest turns up:ok:

So many questions to ask about her Africa trip.

What were the 'operational reasons' for abandoning the idea of a solo expedition.

Why did she never be honest and confess Ewald was up front?

Did she fly in?

It is hot here in Asia but I'll bet a lot hotter at Sywell.

noflynomore

22nd Oct 2016, 11:00

I continue to be amused at the way TCT describes the old tub with such breathless excitement and superlatives making it out to be something really special and out of the ordinary to fly, even though she is clearly pandering to those people still in awe of the super-human nature of flying and the heroism of pilots.

The damn thing is a perfectly ornery, exceedingly sedate and (once) disposable pussy of a basic trainer for God's sake, and, unlike the DeHavilland variety, built strongly enough to shrug off the bashes and crunches of inept 17yr olds trying not to mishandle it. The way she bigs it all up as though she were wrestling a tetchy bear or a marginal jet (all that faux-technical guff about density altitude - its a bloody Stearman!) would be comical if it didn't sit so squarely with the rest of her blatant self-promotion. Still, she seems to have explored it's toughness more thoroughly than might be hoped.

It didn't seem so very hard to fly when I had a go. Three circuits and solo. With 90mins previous tailwheel time and I'm certainly no test pilot.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

22nd Oct 2016, 11:00

Not wishing to jump to any conclusions as to why but it would be an honourable thing if she were to stand up at the start, apologise for the confusion, and hand back the award.

Save the LAA some time, save herself some grief and perhaps gain some respect in the process.

Sam Rutherford

22nd Oct 2016, 11:08

Thanks Bob. Is anyone filming it? Could be a YouTube sensation...

Mike Flynn

22nd Oct 2016, 11:10

I have to agree Satco,

Nothing wrong with making a so called reality tv show.

It was the lies in the press claiming she was flying solo that started this thread.

BobD

22nd Oct 2016, 11:43

Is the Duke of Kent in tow? :)

Barry Tempest is here. Not sure if Ewald is, wouldn't recognise him as he appears to be camera shy 😈😈😈

Mike Flynn

22nd Oct 2016, 11:50

Barry Tempest and TCT in the same room?

This I would love to see.

deefer dog

22nd Oct 2016, 12:56

Just came across this article concerning her Goodwood prang.

PressReader.com - Connecting People Through News (http://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-mail-on-sunday/20150823/282398398162782)

Forward visibility for this aircraft. It's depressing and embarrassing. It's really difficult to operate in this sort of environment. Happily there is no damage to my engine....

Tracey, what difficulty did you have with the environment of an all grass 200 acre ex WW2 airfield that was previously used as an emergency landing diversion?

What kind of environment would you have been content with....one in which only you were permitted to park your aircraft?:yuk:

Happily also Tracey that nobody happened to be sitting in the parked helicopter that you crashed into as a result of not looking, or they would have been killed. Glad to hear your engine was okay though :ugh:

Mike Flynn

22nd Oct 2016, 15:04

I may be on the border with Laos and Thailand but can report some good news from England.

The vote at the LAA AGM at Sywell was as follows

She lost!

123 to 65 votes to rescind the Bill Woodhams Award.

TCT turned up with support and addressed the meeting.

More follows.

deefer dog

22nd Oct 2016, 15:10

Entirely a right and fair decision. Very good news and a big well done to Jay, Sam and those who have helped to publicise the whole sad affair.

B70

22nd Oct 2016, 15:15

Ha ..... so where does this leave the threatened legal action?

Mike Flynn

22nd Oct 2016, 15:27

More info here from one of my contacts.

Most of the noise was from her supporters. Only about seven of us in the room voted against her (about 110 in the room). We were not popular!

Midlifec

22nd Oct 2016, 15:39

Sounds like decency and the truth have prevailed, do we have a summary of her defence presentation .......

clunckdriver

22nd Oct 2016, 15:45

Thank heaven's for the result, had it gone the wrong way my wife and I would not be joining the LAA when we spend our winters in the UK for the next few years, {We own a DH87B Hornet Moth, which we may bring with us}, as a result of this vote, had it gone the other way I just couldn't see us joining such an organisation if they had decided that such behavior as displayed by this person is acceptable in aviation.

Crash one

22nd Oct 2016, 15:56

Great result.
I'm surprised only seven in the room voted against her.
It seems the proxy voters swung it.
Looking forward to her defence speech.

Mike Flynn

22nd Oct 2016, 15:57

Raw news from LAA AGM
Please note this is unconfirmed.
--------------------------------------
Most of the noise was from her supporters. Only about seven of us in the room voted against her (about 110 in the room). We were not popular!

-------------/////////--/
"The room was overwhelmingly on her side and the board biased the speaking time to her benefit but it still wasn't enough.
------------------------------------

From another member
"The LAA have printed out two sheets as handouts. Four lines explain Barry Tempest's proposal thus "I wish to propose a motion for the AGM. It concerns the recent award of the Bill Woodhams trophy to Tracey Curtis-Taylor in respect of flights from South Africa and to Australia. In my considered opinion the award of this trophy by the LAA has brought our organisation into disrepute. I urge the Assossiation to reconsider its decision and to rescind the award."

They then devote the rest of the A4 page to her recent statement "A small number of recent articles... " with a second sheet of A4 given over to Ewald's statement.

To any members not familiar with the whole saga they've only given her story."

Bottom line is

She lost!

123 to 65 votes.

Haraka

22nd Oct 2016, 16:09

I would venture to suggest that this overwhelming "123 to 65 against" vote makes it a bit difficult for her to go now for the sympathy appeal ( Haraka option "d" ) following the patent collapse of the counter-accusation ploy against " a certain individual".

HCAP please note.

m.Berger

22nd Oct 2016, 16:19

No. The council defended the status quo and were properly and constitutionally challenged at the AGM where a vote overturned their position. Proper democracy without any cloak and dagger stuff or chicanery. Looks to me like a job well done.

pulse1

22nd Oct 2016, 16:29

I wonder how many of the 65 were swayed by her address to the AGM. Obviously she couldn't influence the proxy voters but it is probable that a similar number of those might have changed their views.The vote might even have gone the other way.

As a member of the LAA, I am so pleased that it didn't but I can't help a tiny bit of admiration for TCT for trying.

Mike Flynn

22nd Oct 2016, 16:30

Given the LAA result on rescinding the award it makes one question how the Honourable Company Of Air Pilots can defend this letter from the Master, Sqn Leader Chris Ford MBE in January 2016?

She will stand alongside Tim Peake next weekend.

https://s14.postimg.org/75r3rhhtd/image.jpg

Mike Flynn

22nd Oct 2016, 16:45

Update on the LAA website

The LAA AGM was attended by a record number of members on a fine Autumn day. The motion to rescind the award of the 2014 "Bill Woodhams" trophy to Tracey Curtis-Taylor was passed by a sizeable majority. Barry Tempest spoke to the motion, Harry Hopkins spoke on behalf of the LAA awards committee giving the background to the award and Tracey Curtis-Taylor spoke against the motion.
The AGM was admirably chaired by Brian Davies.
I hope this will bring to an end an unsavoury contretemps on social media. The matter is closed.

Now the LAA can get back to what they do best...taking care of geuine aviation enthusiasts.

Mike Flynn

22nd Oct 2016, 17:02

Someone posted elsewhere
"Solo?" "Alone?" British Aviatrix, Tracey Curtis-Taylor is the first person in British aviation history to ever have a prestigious aviation award rescinded.

Well done that woman :thumright:

It wouldn't have been possible without the support of her team. :lol:

G-KEST

22nd Oct 2016, 17:09

I was amazed that Tracey attended though she is an LAA member. That took some bottle. She gave an impassioned defence of her position which may have influenced many of those in the room however the final result supported the motion by a significant majority. Democracy rules OK........!!!!!!!!!

Fly-by-Wife

22nd Oct 2016, 17:09

I have to disagree with the LAA summary:

an unsavoury contretemps on social media

Exposing a charlatan is unsavoury? :confused:

FBW

Mike Flynn

22nd Oct 2016, 17:14

In this modern interconnected world it is hard to lie.

Where this decision,and the one earlier this week from the Australian Women Pilots Association to remove her solo certificate,leaves the HCAP masters medal remains to be seen.

Once again a big thank you to Pprune and Internet Brands without whom this story would never have broken.

Also thanks to the many who have sent me pm's over several months.

There is still more to reveal on how the worlds media were fooled by the Spirit of Artemis and Boeing Aircraft Corporation.

I look forward to seeing how todays result is disguised by wiki

Sir Niall Dementia

22nd Oct 2016, 17:17

Well, she stood to lose a substantial income. She lost. I will take a closer look at the cmmittee's attitude before the vote from the minutes.

Maybe now she will quietly go away and consider her behaviour and claims. Well done all those who sent proxy votes.

SND

deefer dog

22nd Oct 2016, 17:28

The matter of TCT and the LAA may well be closed, but I fear that this story has only just grown an athletic pair of legs.

Last week we had the Australian Women's Pilot Assn "amend" a previous award given to TCT, and today we have the LAA rescinding completely an award that was given to her some time ago.

Even if the HCAP do stick to their guns and present next week's award to TCT, a precedent has been set. They may well have to revisit the matter at a later date also.

What happens next is largely in the hands of the TCT camp. If she was to come clean in public, admit that she made a terrible mistake by exaggerating her claims, or allowing them to be exaggerated by others, she might escape with only a bruised ego. If on the other hand she keeps denying the obvious, and continues with her aggressive tone towards those who are only seeking to expose the truth, I fear she will come out of the whole affair with a very badly damaged reputation, maybe an irreparable one.

m.Berger

22nd Oct 2016, 17:36

deefer dog

22nd Oct 2016, 17:41

The HCAP does a great deal of work for charity. I don't think it is anyone's interest to knock the HCAP as an organization, but instead stick to the single issue of whether or not they should continue with the proposed award to TCT.

Stanwell

22nd Oct 2016, 17:57

Congratulations to the LAA membership.
The result of their AGM vote has gone some way to restoring my confidence in our society.

BobD

22nd Oct 2016, 18:08

Should heads roll? Absolutely not !

Rather the LAA committee (especially the Chairman Brian Davies ) should be congratulated on a fair debate, and supporting the democratic objective. There were a couple of attempts from the floor to have the Proxy votes put aside, but these were rightly thwarted. It is true that the majority of those attending voted against the motion. Discussion prior to the vote was restricted to TCT, the Awards Committee, and Barry Tempest, but this was understandable, as it could have taken an age to get to the actual vote, and some of us had to fly home !

It is true that the majority of those attending voted against the motion. Before I left at the end of the formal AGM, I made the following points as to why I stood by my decision to support the motion.

1. Through no fault of their own, the Awards Committee were misled.
2. What I objected to was the misrepresentation of "solo" so much, without correction.
3. That the Award in future should be presented to an Individual, not a Corporate PR event.

Sam, I'll send you a PM later

Genghis the Engineer

22nd Oct 2016, 18:35

WHAT HAVE THE HONOURABLE COMPANY OF AIR PILOTS EVER DONE FOR A SINGLE PRIVATE PILOT ?

The cost of affiliation seems to confer no benefit as far as I can see.

The Royal Aeronautical Society or the LAA seem to be far more relevant.
I am not an HCAP member, and I disapprove of their giving an award to TCT.

However, I've also encountered their work a great deal over a quarter century in GA, and actually think that they are worthwhile and useful organisation. This has been a bad patch for them in my opinion, that they continue to handle badly - but overall they are still an impressive organisation.

I choose not to be a member, but not because (bar this particular issue) I disapprove of them. I choose not to be a member, because there are several other aviation organisations (including the RAeS and LAA) which align more closely with my personal and professional interests, so I choose to belong to those instead.

G

Senior Pilot

22nd Oct 2016, 19:00

WHAT HAVE THE HONOURABLE COMPANY OF AIR PILOTS EVER DONE FOR A SINGLE PRIVATE PILOT ?

Maybe a little research and less emotive rubbishing of a well known charitable organisation would have prevented such a crass comment. The HCAP is known for the flying scholarships and flying bursaries awarded annually: https://www.airpilots.org/career-matters/scholarships/

And it has also been raised here that there is a significant representation of members who are not in favour of the decision of the Master and the T & A Committee in making this award, but to tar all the Honourable Company with the same brush (and in such an ill informed manner) is both unwarranted and offensive to the membership.

sophi

22nd Oct 2016, 19:12

This is very good news. I am also happy that the Australian Women Pilot Association changed their award.

This lady claimed that she had a harder time doing her flights than those who did it years ago, like Amy Johnson. How can it be hard when she had a complete support team, another plane to follow her, the expense account of two very big companies and layovers in luxuary hotels every night. She didn't even have to do her own flight planning, or arrange for fuel AND there was another highly qualified pilot looking after her. I could just as easily sat in the back of her Stearman and done the same trip with everything done for me, and an instructor up front to keep me out of trouble....and I have never flown a Stearman before.

clareprop

22nd Oct 2016, 19:48

I see an update on Wikipedia. Difficult to remove this one I think.

Genghis the Engineer

22nd Oct 2016, 20:18

This is what it says at 2018Z on Saturday 22nd October

On October 22 2016, at the Annual General Meeting of the Light Aircraft Association, a motion was debated to rescind Curtis-Taylor's award of the Bill Woodhams trophy. The trophy had been presented to her on the basis that the LAA understood Curtis-Taylor had flown solo from Cape Town, South Africa, to the United Kingdom. Subsequently, the LAA became aware that this had not been the case and Curtis-Taylor had in fact flown with another pilot in the front cockpit of her aircraft. The motion to rescind the award was carried by 123 votes to 65.

G

clareprop

22nd Oct 2016, 20:33

Norman Hedgekinson

22nd Oct 2016, 20:44

piperboy84

22nd Oct 2016, 21:31

All's well that ends well, look at all the positives that came out of this. Tracey and Boeing will have more time on their hands to focus on the outreach and charitable activities that they started during the flights, The LAA have shown what a stalwart of democracy and good governance their organization is in hearing out all sides and adjudicating with fairness. Sam never again has to worry about getting a clip around the lug for not getting the Louis Vittons loaded on time, with the nav award pulled Bill Woodham can stop spinning in his gimbal and rest in peace and finally the hero of story Jay Sata, the tenacious, ankle biting information ferret who in spite of being dismissed at the start as a sad sack moaning faced bastard persisted till the truth came out and more importantly was acted upon. The only losers here are the miserable bastards like me and my fellow ppruners who have now lost our sole source of entertainment, I suppose I could go back to gleefully reading the obituary page of the local paper but it just won't be as good as this thread has been .

coldair

22nd Oct 2016, 21:53

Piperboy,

I somehow suspect that it's not all over yet ( I hope )

I'm sure that that a few more lines of newsprint are to appear before too long.

coldair

hillbillyholiday

22nd Oct 2016, 22:11

I think they are wasting their time playing around with it now - just delaying the inevitable. Once the LAA minutes are out the story will gather pace and the broadsheets will have to print something. As I understand (from about twenty pages or so ago on this thread) that is the level of reporting needed by the busy souls who populate Wikipedia.

Hello again. Your friendly Wikipedia spokesman here.

Yes, the busy souls have indeed seen the new controversy section! Although it is unsourced, I for one am content to let it stand, "verifiability" be damned! It's not like I get paid to patrol Wikipedia's super-duper online defamation service. No doubt someone will be along shortly with the dustpan and brush.

As I said previously, she probably wasn't notable enough for an entry, but those sources celebrating her "solo" flight would've made it hard to delete. Now of course, she has clearly demonstrated her notoriety ... by being the first person in British aviation history to ever have a prestigious aviation award rescinded.[citation_needed]
:D

Once a decent source is found for all this, her article, and in particular that stain on her career, can't be scrubbed for love nor money. For all of time.

There is, I should think, a moral here somewhere.

By the way, if there's any lingering suspicion that I am working on behalf of TCT, please see this edit to Amy Johnson's article from a few weeks ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amy_Johnson&diff=740773335&oldid=740773218

9 lives

22nd Oct 2016, 22:22

As I said previously, she probably wasn't notable enough for an entry, but those sources celebrating her "solo" flight would've made it hard to delete. Now of course, she has clearly demonstrated her notoriety ... by being the first person in British aviation history to ever have a prestigious aviation award rescinded.

Kharma! Excellent. I as a four decades long GA pilot am happy when honour is upheld. Thanks to the LAA for acting responsibly, and Jay Sata for following through on his beliefs.

Though it does not affect me, and I respect the fine intentions of the HCAP, I do hope they will review their choice for award recipients, and award honour and truth, rather than mundane notoriety.

Now, I read MOD, that is the Ministry of Defense? I'll keep my eye on their interest in TCT (and pride in their uniform, I imagine).....

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

22nd Oct 2016, 22:30

This is the only result that could have come from this sorry saga. As I said in a much earlier post, HCAP and LAA plus many many others have been duped.

I see this as just the start in getting to the whole truth now. Thank you LAA for upholding democracy. Thank you Jay and Sam for bringing this into the limited spotlight; I believe that now there has been a positive action taken, more will follow. I wait to see how HCAP deal with this.
:D

Crash one

22nd Oct 2016, 23:19

The fact that this woman had the gall to defend her actions at the LAA AGM I think is appalling.
She and her PR machine still don't realise that she, and they, have insulted every aeroplane pilot on the planet, all of whom can look back with pride at that entry in their log book. Exercise 14, first solo, every first solo cross country, their solo QXC. She has belittled all of this, yet she has not a grain of regret.

Genghis the Engineer

23rd Oct 2016, 00:08

Makes you wonder if she hasn't convinced herself that Black is White, and believes her own hype?

G

Stanwell

23rd Oct 2016, 01:10

Spot on, Genghis.
The sad thing is that she'd managed to convince so many otherwise intelligent people in positions of responsibility
that jet black is only just a darker shade of light grey.
That's the bit that worries me.

Kr2 worldtour

23rd Oct 2016, 05:25

Haven't really said much about this topic as I'm quite biased and this sort of thing only comes around to bite you. But I have been following with interest, my name is on that trophy after all.

Anyway they say sometimes a simple symbol can say a thousand words.

From the Russian Chinese border... :)

www.kr2worldtour.com

Mike Flynn

23rd Oct 2016, 05:38

No chance of another pilot hiding in the KR2 Colin?
You must be 'windblown ,sunburnt and punch drunk' :D

When do you leave for Japan?

megan

23rd Oct 2016, 06:07

Love to see/hear what TCT had to say at the LAA meeting. Anybody?

Mike Flynn

23rd Oct 2016, 06:26

This from one of my informants

Her speech was typical TCT. "I've just got back from China where we're going to be reaching out....empowering women..... I am trying to encourage women into aviation which your own demographics show you need.

Where are the youngsters here? Where are the women?"

Really just a load of waffle along the same lines however.......her attempt at the sympathy card was to say that this was all the result of an internet campaign by mainly Sam Rutherford and Jay Sata. She said something like "I don't personally engage in social media....my PR people do that.." She's on Facebook, Twitter, LinkdIn plus of course her own website. Clearly she doesn't do social media.

Oh, and apparently Sam and Jay and others have "manipulated my Wikipedia page...". Apparently it's all been reported to the Metropolitan Police.

There really wasn't much else from lots of outreaching, all irrelevant to the matter in hand.She did take the time to say she did the flight to the Cape "...with crew, I've never made any claims about not doing this with a crew...".

So there we have it...a solo flight with crew:ok:

I hope to have more information later but although early afternoon where I am it is still early morning in the UK.

If she has been in China trying to encourage women pilots then she has left it a bit late.

China's Air Force has been training female pilots for six decades. But women flying one of the world's most lethal fighter jets are a fairly recent development – and they’re breaking barriers. Reporter Han Bin was given rare access to the four female fighter pilots, who are conquering the skies with their skill and determination.

http://english.cctv.com/2016/08/01/VIDE6MbnB3zyy615usHy8HMA160801.shtml

Haraka

23rd Oct 2016, 06:39

reaching out....empowering women

Surprised she isn't flying a "Boeing Stearperson" .......:)

"I don't personally engage in social media....my PR people do that..

I would expect she will be strongly advised by them to now follow that dictum.

The Old Fat One

23rd Oct 2016, 07:19

I'd suggest if TCT is going to speak live she is going to self incriminate, so somebody needs to record her comments.

for example

Apparently it's all been reported to the Metropolitan Police.

Did she actually say those words? If so, they look like very naive and potentially damaging bluster.

Libel/defamation are civil matters, nought to do with the police. And she is lawyered up with a specialist in the field, so presumably has been so advised.

Wasting police time on the other hand, is a criminal offence.

RomeoTangoFoxtrotMike

23rd Oct 2016, 08:21

I'd suggest if TCT is going to speak live she is going to self incriminate, so somebody needs to record her comments.

for example

Did she actually say those words? If so, they look like very naive and potentially damaging bluster.

Libel/defamation are civil matters, nought to do with the police. And she is lawyered up with a specialist in the field, so presumably has been so advised.

Wasting police time on the other hand, is a criminal offence.

There are a number of criminal offences which do exist in relation to computer systems, to which Ms CT. may have been alluding. The chances of any of them having been committed in this case is small, and the liklihood of the MP bothering to even investigate to see if they have been is from "vanishingly small" to zero.

[ IANAL, but I do know something about computer security. PM me if you want further. ]

Steve6443

23rd Oct 2016, 08:49

The wikipedia (the free encyclopaedia that *anyone* can edit) entry quoted is not correct. I flew in and was in the room. The bloke from the prize committee made it plain that the prize was for some other earlier flight. So much BS on all sides...
That said, I voted not *for* TCT but *against* a foolish motion attempting to involve the LAA in a personal squabble. And, if you read the actual motion (doh!), it's "for review of the award..." so if they have any sense remaining, the LAA will "review" it and then leave well alone.

Either your command of english is extremely poor, failing to understand what the word AND denotes OR you failed to read the full motion. The motion was 'for review of the award AND RESCIND IT'. By simply 'reviewing the award' and leaving well alone, as you propose, the LAA are actually failing to comply with a debated and successfully passed motion......

clareprop

23rd Oct 2016, 09:11

Very interesting battle on Wikipedia at the moment with yesterday's entry removed. The removing editors IP address is 31.46.236.14 which is an IP based in Hungary. Now then, who do we know who is based in Hungary...? :)

pilotmike

23rd Oct 2016, 09:28

Now that the award of the Trophy has been rescinded, isn't is rather pathetic that certain 'pro T C-T' supporters' best efforts are to repeatedly remove reference to this embarrassment from her Wiki page?

Obviously the rescinding of the award must be hugely humiliating for the whole T C-T team, but at every stage of this unfolding story, there has been ample opportunity to stop digging, to do the honourable thing by admitting to the misleading information (known as lying), and apologising. For reasons known only to them, this still isn't happening. Until it does, the self-inflicted humiliation will simply continue, in ever greater quantity.

Constantly trying to edit out the fact that she has been rumbled and publicly humiliated appears utterly futile - akin to shuffling the deckchairs on the Titanic.

Until she, her supporters and her PR team do the required spectacular climb-down and admit their game is up, this show is simply going to run and run. Every indication is that this entertaining show of a spectacular forthcoming fall is going to run for a while yet...

Using the media to draw attention for self-aggrandisement can have highly capricious results, as so many celebrities have found to their cost. It is not dissimilar to flying: even the slightest misjudgement or indiscretion can lead to wreckage in an instant, whether helicopters, biplanes, integrity or reputations.

Norman Hedgekinson

23rd Oct 2016, 10:07

@Steve6443: I stand (partially) corrected!
The Agenda handed out at the meeting says "Motion for review of the award of the Bill Woodhams Trophy to Tracey Curtis-Taylor"
But the proxy form sent out to the membership says "Motion rescinding Bill Woodhams Award to Tracey Curtis-Taylor"
So the postal proxy votes were for a different motion to that voted on at the meeting.
Ho hum.

Crash one

23rd Oct 2016, 10:22

Does anyone have a copy of the agenda and the proxy form. Because this piece of krap needs to be clarified before it turns into a separate pointless debate.

BEagle

23rd Oct 2016, 11:24

After the first Hungarian IP address owner at Vag, Győr-Moson-Sopron, was warned by Wikipedia that he(?) would be banned if the ongoing edit war wasn't stopped, a different Hungarian IP address user has now popped up to amend the 'controversy' section yet again...

The IP is again traced to Győr-Moson-Sopron, not a million km from Meidl Airport near Sopron, Hungary, at which a certain restoration and maintenance facility is located...

The 'controversy' was subsequently amended to a mere 2 lines....:\ As a result it doesn't make sense to anyone reading the article for the first time, as the obvious question is "Why was it rescinded - on what grounds?"

The original version read:

On October 22 2016, at the Annual General Meeting of the Light Aircraft Association, a motion was debated to rescind Curtis-Taylor's award of the Bill Woodhams trophy. The trophy had been presented to her on the basis that the LAA understood Curtis-Taylor had flown solo from both Cape Town, South Africa, to the United Kingdom and from the United Kingdom to Sydney, Australia as had been reported in mainstream UK media and presented at speaking events by Curtis-Taylor. Subsequently, the LAA became aware that this had not been the case and Curtis-Taylor had in fact flown with other people in the front cockpit of her aircraft. The motion to rescind the award was carried by 123 votes to 65.

But now, (at 12:35 BST) it has been amended by an 'eye wittness (sic) to read:

On October 22 2016, at the Annual General Meeting of the Light Aircraft Association, a motion was debated to rescind Curtis-Taylor's award of the Bill Woodhams trophy. The motion to rescind the award was carried by 123 votes to 65. The majority of members attending the meeting voted for her, but mostly anonymous internet votes tilted it the other way. A day that split the LAA, in a debate based on mis-interpretations and private attacks.

Childish attempts to suppress the truth just make this woman and her followers look ever more ridiculous!

noflynomore

23rd Oct 2016, 11:43

Time to pull the feathers off those offensive RAF wings now, isn't it?

Mike Flynn

23rd Oct 2016, 11:54

The latest wiki entry states

The motion to rescind the award was carried by 123 votes to 65. The majority of members attending the meeting voted for her, but mostly anonymous internet votes tilted it the other way. A day that split the LAA, in a debate based on mis-interpretations and private attacks.

I guess the private attacks refer to Barry Tempest and Chris Martyr?

As for 'anonymous internet votes' I was under the impression they were postal votes that required LAA membership and identity to vote?

I should point out I am not a LAA member and am thousands of miles away.

Crash one

23rd Oct 2016, 12:09

The latest wiki entry states

I guess the private attacks refer to Barry Tempest and Chris Martyr?

As for 'anonymous internet votes' I was under the impression they were postal votes that required LAA membership and identity to vote?

I should point out I am not a LAA member and am thousands of miles away.

I received the proxy form from the LAA, as did every other member of the LAA with this months Light Aviation magazine, which clearly stated, motion to rescind the award.
There was no mention of review.
The form required membership number, name, address and signature and appropriate for or against boxes ticked.
This was not in any way anonymous or ambiguous.
I have not seen a copy of the agenda issued at the meeting to attendees.

pulse1

23rd Oct 2016, 12:10

As for 'anonymous internet votes' I was under the impression they were postal votes that required LAA membership and identity to vote?

Jay Sata, you are absolutely correct and the suggestion that they were "anonymous voters" is a profound insult to the LAA and its members.

HCAP please take note of the sort of people you are playing with.

clareprop

23rd Oct 2016, 12:14

It can't last on Wiki - the original quote that BEagle shows has proper references against it. The current one is just vitriol. Presumably someone sensible will come along and lock-out the offending IP addresses.

clivewatson

23rd Oct 2016, 12:31

My voting form also stated the motion was to rescind the award. I put my name to my vote, signed the form and included my membership number so I presume that my vote (for the motion) was NOT anonymous.

noflynomore

23rd Oct 2016, 12:33

Jay, that whole paragraph has a peevish and spoiled-brat quality that does TCT no favours at all, all it lacks is her stamping her foot and wailing Waaaa! Waaa! It's not fair! though most readers can hear that between the lines, loud and clear.

Lets see how long it lasts on Wiki once the Moderator From Hungary realises it is unhelpful to the cause!

Clive, the objection to anonymous here is, imo, an objection to her opponents being anonymous to her. As a professional social climber and shameless name dropper it is essential to know who is on your side and who is not, the inability to determine someone's view could at best lead to missed opportunities and at the worst to hugely embarrassing mistakes and gaffes. It is evidently very frustrating not to know.

clivewatson

23rd Oct 2016, 12:39

Outreach, my @rse! More like Bake Off.

This was never about outreach, it's always been about her and a brilliantly executed sales pitch that secured her a round the world jolly on someone else's dollar! If it had been executed as planned, good for her, if she had announced the change of plan and still done the trip as amended, good for her again, but….

She promised her sponsors the world and told them that she would fly around it. It would be a "solo" venture to copy the likes of historic pioneering heroines like Lady Mary Heath, and later Amy Johnson, and the choice of a Stearman was a brainwave perfectly timed to coincide with Boeing's centenary. Knowing that the press would lap up coverage of a glamorous bird in a biplane she used the gender angle as a trump card, and to finally sell the cake she had been baking it would be topped off with a sprinkling of outreach and a few school and women’s group visits along the way. The ingredients had been chosen with great care and from preparation through to execution she had been meticulous with every bit of the detail. Her sponsors loved its look, shape and smell – if ever there was a contender for the Great British bake off, this was it – and they chose to buy it.

To be fair, TC-T did an incredible job in putting together the pitch and selling the concept to secure herself a great sponsorship deal. Full marks to her here, and she had every right to enjoy the trip she had sold to those who would pay for it. All she needed to do next was deliver what she had written on the tin.

In the run up to her 2013 Cape Town to UK flight the press, fired up by an around-the-clock PR team, were lapping up TC-T cakes which were literally flying off the shelves. Unbeknown to everyone though, and for reasons that have yet to be fully explained, by this time TC-T (or possibly her sponsors) had decided to change the recipe. One can only imagine that the TC-T team thought that nobody would notice – after all it was only to be a tweak that wouldn’t have any material effect on the taste. They were almost correct, few noticed a difference and the cakes kept on selling. TC-T cakes were everywhere, and to her delight they were now going global. And so too was she.

Sadly for TC-T though, and unbeknown to her at the time, a member of her support team – a pilot named Sam Rutherford, who also happens to be a renowned baking aficionado – had detected something that he thought was a little odd. It seems also that he was not the only one, and according to reliable accounts, mid way through the trip a discussion took place between TC-T and her sponsors concerning how the TC-T cakes were being marketed. It seems that TC-T may have been ever so slightly over egging the mixture, and the sponsors were getting a little bit jittery. Nevertheless, all was still going well with sales, and TC-T’s twitter, website and FB feeds were pumping out the news as she photo opted herself at every stop on her replication of Lady Heath’s historic solo flight up through Africa.

For Tracey this was to be no holiday. It was long, tiring trip and, unlike Lady Mary Heath, Tracey had to deal with border controls, permits, visas and endless paperwork at every stop, and she had to arrange for fuel which was not available everywhere. In the air it wasn’t easy either – nowadays there are airspace restrictions, control zones and special airways and other complicated things that non-pilots clearly won’t understand. Navigating through and around these certainly isn’t a cakewalk. And let’s not get started talking about the weather, especially the thick fog (there’s lots of that in Africa) and hailstones that can be really dangerous if one doesn’t have accurate forecasts and up to date satellite images available. Obviously Lady Mary Heath didn’t have to worry about all of this seventy eight years ago, so for the TC-T bake off flight this really was a much harder task to achieve, especially for a solo pilot, and one who was alone in an old fashioned “stick and rudder” airplane. Getting this message across to the press wasn’t easy either, and had to be repeated time and time again. But soon she would arrive home to a glorious welcome, and for a while the TC-T cake would remain a family favourite. But the clock was ticking…

More to follow….the pub is calling.

strake

23rd Oct 2016, 12:49

Having just looked on Wikipedia, the 'Controversy' statement that appears there shows a marker to the picture of her standing in front of a graphic stating 'alone in an open cock-pit (sic)'. I've seen it on this thread before but I thought it was a private pic posted by a PPruner. Now I can see it comes from the Canadian National Post. Surely that must convince the naysayers?

noflynomore

23rd Oct 2016, 12:51

From 2008 until 2013 Curtis-Taylor was flying as a display pilot at the Shuttleworth Collection in Bedfordshire, England,[7] often flying a Ryan PT-22 military trainer.
(From TCT's Wiki page)

This one puzzles me. I thought the only pilots used by the Shuttleworth Collection were ex ETPS or very similar. Although the paragraph says "at" rather than "with" it very much implies (to me, at least) that her relationship with the SC was an internal one rather than as an invited guest, and the rather curious use of the Past Imperfect tense instead of the more conventional Past tense serves to amplify the suggestion that this was an internal and long-running, established situation.
Did she actually fly for the SC as implied, or did she in reality fly at Old Warden displays which I think is a very important distinction.

Perhaps my interpretation of this is incorrect in which case I'll delete this post. Or is this yet another of her PR cabal's oh just not quite an untruth that this whole farrago seems to revolve around?

clivewatson

23rd Oct 2016, 12:55

She DID NOT fly any of the collection's owned aircraft. I believe that she based her aircraft there, and presumably paid for that. Inclusion of this in her bio simply bumps up the image she would like to project.

clivewatson

23rd Oct 2016, 13:02

One thing puzzles me.

If TC-T has so many supporters who feel aggrieved by postings made, why do they not voice their views here and explain their (or her) side of the story?

Similarly the TC-T publicity machine and her sponsors do not respond to inquiries seeking clarification, or bother to put forward anything other than clarifications that muddy the waters even more - like the "sole" pilot explanation, that is a widely laughed at joke.

noflynomore

23rd Oct 2016, 13:08

So if I paid the RAF to have my C150 based at Coningsby I could claim on my c.v. that I was flying as a pilot at the BBMF between such and such dates?

Yeehaaar!

B Fraser

23rd Oct 2016, 15:49

Her speech was typical TCT. "I've just got back from China where we're going to be reaching out....empowering women..... I am trying to encourage women into aviation which your own demographics show you need.

Where are the youngsters here? Where are the women?"

The last time I looked, the youngsters were queueing up for jobs and the women were either sitting in the cockpit or in the case of EasyJet, running the company. For god's sake woman, wake up. This is the 21st century, we have a second woman PM and her gender didn't warrant a single word in the press. Germany has a female chancellor and even the USA is looking likely to have a female president. Today, nobody gives a toss about gender.

Haraka

23rd Oct 2016, 16:05

It's called " Shouting at doors that have already long been opened."
I well remember Elizabeth Overbury instructing at Luton Flying Club c.1960 on her way to her ATPL LHS on a Jet Airliner.
Not to mention the ATA ladies, some now Centenarians.......

Mike Flynn

23rd Oct 2016, 16:16

TCT and her backers are spouting rubbish.

The doors were wide open in the 30's to the likes of Mary Heath,Amy Johnson,Jean Batten etc .Those women flew solo without "engineers and a support team".

Get real Tracey and if you want to 'emulate' them a good start would be achieving your UK commercial pilots licence on the Tiger Moth. If Amanda Harrison can do it I am sure you can.

We would all respect you if you solo piloted a Tiger Moth to Oz.

It would make a better movie as well.

piperboy84

23rd Oct 2016, 16:35

What's all the noise about China she's been making recently? Is it perhaps that was going to be the next big ballyhooed jolly had this controversy not arisen, bringing outreach and empowerment there ? If it was I cant see that getting of the ground now.

Mike Flynn

23rd Oct 2016, 16:40

She won't get anywhere in China trust me Piperboy.

OK to visit as a tourist and that is about the sum of it.

Colin Hales in his KR 2 is stuck on the Russian Chinese border without a support crew and bag carriers.

Are you sure China and not Hong Kong?

There is a big difference.

Midlifec

23rd Oct 2016, 20:27

I see the Mirror now running with the tale of woe......

yotty

23rd Oct 2016, 20:46

British 'Bird in a Biplane' stripped of flying award amid claims she wasn't flying solo - Mirror Online (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/british-bird-biplane-stripped-flying-9110682) this one Midifec?

Russell Gulch

23rd Oct 2016, 20:58

"Bird" in a biplane is hardly the term to be used to "empower" women, is it?

Bird, in this context, is inappropriate.

Russ

Midlifec

23rd Oct 2016, 21:06

Perhaps she can now take some time to explain retrospectively to each and every media outlet just how and why they all got it so wrong re the conduct of the flights....... solo vs sole isn't going to cut it when the press turn to professionals for comment

pilotmike

23rd Oct 2016, 21:23

We must wonder why, when so many people are so scrupulous to edit out any material which might portray T C-T in a poor light from her Wiki page, are those same people apparently happy for lies such as this to remain:
the biplane was similar to Lady Heath's in size and design, but had some improvements such as... & GPS navigation system for use in controlled airspaces only (legal requirement).[11]

A GPS is not required in controlled airspace. And the criteria used for all the over-zealous pruning of statements which don't heap praise on her, ie, that the comment must be referenced to a reputable source, must similarly have to apply here, as there is no such reference to the (false) claim stating that she was effectively forced to carry a very good GPS only for use in controlled airspace in order to remain legal. And why the need for such compliance with the law in order for the GPS to be onboard the plane with her, when she has openly bragged about countless other instances of ignoring procedure, including but not limited to low flying, flying below VMC minima, flying into prohibited zones etc, from the very references that her supporters on Wiki insist are quoted:
“I ignored procedure,” she admits, eyes twinkling. “The place was deserted, so I just flew through the gorge. I was hauled over the coals by air traffic control for two hours.
“I begged forgiveness.... There was another time in Uganda, when I flew into a prohibited zone... I ended up over the president’s house. By the time I landed, there was a summons to the tower and they tried to impound the plane. I said, 'That’s ridiculous...' ".

Along with all the other at best dubious claims - many others of which are believed to be completely untrue, is it not time for those with knowledge and access to reliable references to give her whole Wiki page the thorough (P)PRuNe it needs and deserves?

Forfoxake

23rd Oct 2016, 21:31

Getting closer again in Wiki:

'Controversy[edit]
On October 22 2016, at the Annual General Meeting of the Light Aircraft Association, a motion was debated to rescind Curtis-Taylor's award of the Bill Woodhams trophy. The trophy had been presented to her for "an exceptional feat of navigation" for her flight from Cape Town, South Africa, to the United Kingdom. [27][28] A motion was raised subsequently, that this was not the case.[29] The motion to rescind the award was carried by 123 votes to 65, the majority of which were postal votes from members who were unable to attend the meeting in person.'

deefer dog

23rd Oct 2016, 21:34

Helen Needham, producer at BBC radio Scotland, has now been updated with TCT's latest PR disaster.

The TCT PR team are going to awfully busy now, just like her wiki editors. I wonder who pays their bills, Boeing or Artiface?

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

23rd Oct 2016, 23:22

I wonder how quickly she will be in contact with the newspapers to correct any upcoming "errors"; the same newspapers whom she found it impossible to contact to correct the "solo" headlines.

One thing that will now be going on is these papers will be looking into their archives to dig out any press-packs or press-releases that they had originally worked to.

Ref the GPS and controlled airspace. Can a non-IR pilot fly in controlled airspace (Class A that is). Did any of these flights occur in Class A airspace?

Final point, I understand that there were plans to continue the trans-USA flight. If so, then I would really like to see her do it totally alone. All of the reasons given for having Ewald with her ie engineering support, and the chase plane for filming and tanking would not be required. I'd wager that she would get lost, so I would want some form of safety net for her; I am not a sadist and do not wish her any harm.

clareprop

24th Oct 2016, 06:53

First article from a broadsheet. The Daily Telegraph:

Self-styled 'bird in a biplane' stripped of prize after claims she did not fly solo (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/23/self-styled-bird-in-a-biplane-stripped-of-prize-after-claims-she/)

"A self-styled “bird in a biplane” who became the poster girl for female flyers has been stripped of an award amid claims she used a co-pilot on a solo mission."

wiggy

24th Oct 2016, 07:03

Ah that's interesting....I doubt the Mirror is read by many running charities/ organisations/institutions but the Telegraph is another matter and I would hope the article leaves less room for credible deniability , aka, "problem? what problem?"

Well done to all those who made it so.......

"Bird" in a biplane is hardly the term to be used to "empower" women, is it?

Russell...this old f ****, who flies with female pilots (ATPLers) from time to time agrees, and more importantly that's also the opinion of my teenage daughter...she thinks it's crass....

BEagle

24th Oct 2016, 07:14

Also in the Völkischer Beobachter:

Self-styled 'Bird in a Biplane' stripped of prestigious flying award over allegations she wasn't flying solo during her epic trips | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3864984/Self-styled-Bird-Biplane-stripped-prestigious-flying-award-allegations-wasn-t-flying-solo-epic-trips.html)

clareprop

24th Oct 2016, 07:22

BEagle:

Also in the Völkischer Beobachter:

Snorted Weetabix is not attractive on a keyboard....

Sir Niall Dementia

24th Oct 2016, 07:29

Page 11 of today's Daily Telegraph makes satisfying reading!

As for "where are your youngsters? where are your the women?" that demonstrates a priceless, and patronising lack of aviation knowledge.

The LAA Young Eagles programme has volunteers using their own aircraft to fly as many youngsters as possible. There are hundreds of lady members of the LAA, some of whom fly some very interesting and challenging aircraft.

The membership of the LAA is mainly made up of people who either restore, fly and lovingly maintain vintage aircraft, or spend years building thier own, or people who are enthusiasts about such aircraft. Building, restoring, or maintaining such machine is far from cheap and there are very few youngsters who can afford to do that whilst buying houses, bringing up families and managing a career. The lucky few usualy get to fly mum and dad's pride and joy or get into a syndicate, and make sacrifices in other areas.

As for women; Tracy on the airport where I work is one of the biggest commercial flight training schools in the world. A stream of students walks past my office every day and many of them are women. They are future airline captains, training captains, senior airline management. Airlines don't care that they are women, they care that they achieve the standards to fly some mighty complex machinery around the world. They are not boastful about their achievements, they are bright, confident young people with an exciting career ahead of them, and they are all races and creeds, just what does your "outreach" do for them?

While I admire your ability to gain sponsorship I do hope that now you will take a little quiet time to take a good look at aviation, it is one of the least biased, most inclusive professions in the world, where ability and talent will take you to the top, where if you are involved as a hobby there are always good people willing to help. But, aviation is also very unforgiving. Lose the trust of fellow pilots and it is probably gone forever. If you intend to continue in aviation you need to earn the trust and respect of everyone in the community. Back off with how great you are, that has been proven to be wrong. Get into outreach for women in aviation, there are a few parts of the world that need it, earn an HCAP Masters Medal for that. (I would actually support you in that) Get into outreach for the disabled in aviation, there is an area that really needs funding. Just lay off with what an inspiration you are.

Edit: Your Wiki page claims you flew in the RIAT display in 2013. I flew every day in that display, I don't remember you at the daily pilots'brief, nor do I remember a green Stearman flying in the display, what did you fly and who for?

SND

fujii

24th Oct 2016, 07:35

From the Daily Telegraph article: PPRune is now a respected forum. How will PPRruners live this one down?

His presence triggered widespread protest on respected flight forums Flyer and the Professional Pilots Rumour Network.

Jonzarno

24th Oct 2016, 07:42

Just lay off with what an inspiration you are.

And take off the RAF wings.

The Old Fat One

24th Oct 2016, 07:46

Re Artemis.

As I've previously mentioned Artemis are regulated by the FCA and that includes their marketing. The FCA tend not to take prisoners these days. I'm pretty sure Artemis will have long since run for cover and distanced themselves, but even so I'm thinking their compliance departing will be a shedding a housebrick or two this morning. If anybody wants to follow that up their director of communications is:

[email protected]

Genghis the Engineer

24th Oct 2016, 07:54

Sir Niall,

Sidetracking a bit.

Like a lot of people here, I've worked in aviation all my adult life. I agree that at some points there's a commendable lack of gender bias - I've very seldom, for example, heard of issues on a flight deck. Sadly, TCT has a point that a lot of it does suffer badly from gender imbalance.

Last week I was at the RAeS Greener by Design conference - this is the annual get together where we all review the impact that aviation is having on the environment and how we can improve and mitigate those effects. Something that I'm sure most people would agree is important, attracting people from across our profession.

There were 81 delegates - 12 were women. There were 28 speakers, 1 was a woman. Chatting about this with the (female) administrative staff at the society, they said that they thought that this was about normal for headquarters conferences.

(There were at least a number of young and engaged aviation professionals there, as well as us greybeards.)

Whilst I don't think that TCT has done any significant good towards promoting aviation for women or anybody else - she's just out for what aviation can do for her. She is right that there are problems that need solving. And if, in addition to perhaps flying solo occasionally, she would roll her sleeves up and help address some of these things - she might start to be accepted as worth the amount of oxygen she's consuming by the rest of the aviation community. That of course means the thankless hundreds of hours of unpaid volunteering that many women and men already put into these causes - most of those people you've never heard of because they're not doing it for themselves or the publicity.

G

wiggy

24th Oct 2016, 07:54

And take off the RAF wings.

+1 from me.

wiggy

24th Oct 2016, 08:04

. She is right that there are problems that need solving.

Genghis

Hate to say it but maybe the conference demographics you describe might be more a consequence of engineering than aviation.

FWIW my daughter is in the middle of a course overseas doing what might be loosely described in the UK as an M. Eng and she reckons that even now only about 10% -15% of her course are female...

OTOH from what I have witnessed at the airline where we work the percentage of new joiners who are female is significantly higher, and I'd agree very much with Sir Niall - the demography is changing.

I think TCT has missed the boat when it comes to empowering women, certainly in Western Aviation...but I'm sure she used it as bait when it came to dealing with sponsors and the media.

Genghis the Engineer

24th Oct 2016, 08:23

My other main institution is the Society of Experimental Test Pilots. I'm not used to seeing as high as 10% women test pilots at those conferences. Realistically, probably under 5%.

I think that overt sexism BY AVIATION PROFESSIONALS is rare, but the only faintly gender balanced profession I'm aware of in aviation is cabin crew - and the more senior you get, the more imbalanced it becomes.

The Greener by Design conference, incidentally was engineers, scientists, pilots, economists, ecologists - across the board of aviation professionals, and across the board imbalanced.

Yes, non-aviation engineering also has a problem. About 9% female according to the IET.

And people don't see it. A good example was the most recent Star Wars film - my wife (a fully paid up professional feminist) commented that they seemed to have gone overboard in loading it with powerful female characters. So I worked it out - about 1/3rd of the main characters were female, and 2/3rd male. People see 1/3rd female - in a movie, or a workplace, and think that it's become female heavy and either positive discrimination is happening or all the problems have gone away !

(Mind you, I do worry that if it ever does become truly equal, I might be one of the mediocre white males that gets the shove and I'll have to go and be a househusband. Then again, who knows, I might be really good at it !)

G

Sir Niall Dementia

24th Oct 2016, 08:54

Genghis;

You and I are now old and crinkly, and have reached a level in our areas of expertise where few women have yet to tread, but they will. I know a young lady who has just completed an aeronautical engineering degree, I was surprised to find out how many women were on her course (about 40%).

A heck of a lot in aviation requires a lot of experience. It takes time to get that experience, but once that experience is earned doors open. A newly qualified CPL (of any sex) is not going to make a trainer, or ops manager, until they have done some time.

SND

Genghis the Engineer

24th Oct 2016, 09:11

I do hope that you are right - but I'm not sure that you are (apart from the old and crinkly bit, which is sadly indisputable!).

Only yet more time will tell I suppose, but in the meantime, we should certainly not relax about it.

G

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

24th Oct 2016, 09:51

How times change.

I recall seeing TCT often referred to in the media as "display pilot", "former diamond valuer at De Beers", "Commercial Pilot", "Flying Instructor", "former member of the Foreign Office" etc

Now it has all been simplified to become "former waitress".

Cessnafly

24th Oct 2016, 10:07

Bird in a biplane accused of using a co-pilot | UK | News
Daily Express‎ - 35 mins ago

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=11&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj0-qLkmPPPAhUpI8AKHaDJDuYQqQIIUzAK&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.express.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk%2F724480%2FBi rd-in-a-biplane-accused-using-co-pilot&usg=AFQjCNGiGwatkRpMVSvwoirv85dPczCQSQ&bvm=bv.136593572,d.d24

deefer dog

24th Oct 2016, 10:08

I wonder if our poster girl will pick up the route of her US trip, and I wonder whether Ewald might be forced to give up his seat to prove a point. If he does it will be interesting to see who they choose for this "passenger" duty.

If she does fly it "solo" (and by that I mean completely alone, all be herself, without anyone else in the airplane), will they ditch the idea of a chase plane, and instead have a lead plane? By all accounts I've heard (completely unsubstantiated with facts) she couldn't find her @r@@ with both hands.

SND. Tracey uses the word "display" in the context of static or ground. Without the qualifier it sounds much better in her bio. Kind of exaggerates it.

Mike Flynn

24th Oct 2016, 10:36

Regarding the Express story this picture demonstrates her arrogance in thinking she can wear the WW2 RAF brevet and no one will notice.
This picture (according to today's story) taken at a high end hotel in India.
http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/secondary/Tracey-Curtis-Taylor-has-a-stopover-in-india-694747.jpg

So many airmen worked hard to achieve the right to wear it and she has it stitched on to join all the sponsors patches as if it meant nothing.

In my opinion she chose it to give herself some sort of 'approved pilot' status.

Reminds me of the Walts who turn up at Remembrance Day wearing SAS military berets.

Regarding the American flights they were suggested in local tv reports to be solo flying on the old US mail routes although once again the Stearman was wrong for the period.

The US mail pilots flew as fast as they could from point to point and always solo.

They certainly never went sightseeing in the Grand Canyon.

I see nothing wrong with TCT or others trying to make reality tv programmes. However when it comes to exploiting the press and public to get the sponsors names splashed everywhere by suggesting these were solo flights or part of a round the world trip then is another matter.

ShyTorque

24th Oct 2016, 10:58

People seem to ignore the fact that many women don't actually WANT a career in aviation. Their own choice, not because the industry doesn't want them or tries to exclude them. My own daughter is amongst those who might well soon apply to join the RAF, but not as aircrew. Her choice, I've hidden my own slight disappointment about the latter.

When TCT was in the age bracket to join the RAF, she wouldn't have been allowed to join as a student pilot. But that rule was rescinded almost thirty years ago! I taught a number of RAF UAS female cadets to fly, from the late 1980s onwards. One of them became the Captain of the RAF's first all female fast jet crew. Another got as far as first solo (with a lot of effort from myself) but decided she didn't wish to go further. Her choice, I tried my best to encourage her to continue with the syllabus.

Perhaps TCT has some sort of chip on her shoulder about her rejection by the RAF.

BUT TAKE THAT RAF FLYING BADGE OFF YOUR FLYING SUIT! You are NOT entitled to wear one, even if Prince Michael of Kent gave it to you. It takes three years of damned hard work to earn one.

There, I've been on PPRuNe since May 1995 and that's the first time I've ever raised my voice in capital letters!

deefer dog

24th Oct 2016, 11:16

It looks like here BIAB web site has been changed....or at least that pop up highlighting her side of the controversy seems to have disappeared.

B Fraser

24th Oct 2016, 11:16

There are plenty of women pilots in India already however fraud appears to be commonplace when it comes to qualifications.

Fake IndiGo pilot arrested, is wife of an IPS officer - Times of India (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Fake-IndiGo-pilot-arrested-is-wife-of-an-IPS-officer/articleshow/7667554.cms)

Another case of "who you know".

edited to add : My grandfather was in the SAS so can I wear his badges ? I am very proud of his years of dedication given to the Scottish Ambulance Service. ;)

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

24th Oct 2016, 11:21

I agree with your post ShyTorque, particularly that first part; a friend of mine has a daughter who was offered a job as a trainee pilot with DragonAir (?). She elected not to follow that career.

As for the wings, I think this was alluded to in an earlier post in that it needs to be brought to the attention of the MOD police.

It was clear in the Army Act 1955 but it appears that this has been superseded by the Armed Forces Act 2006 but I am finding it difficult to identify the specific offence if it has been changed or reworded.

The Army Act (1955) makes it illegal to impersonate a member of the armed forces. The act makes wearing any military decoration, badge or other insignia without authority a criminal offence. The idea is, that by wearing them, you are deceiving people into thinking you are someone that you are not. This has been done by people trying to collect for bogus charities, or to get sympathy.

I quite like this online snippet I found and I believe the latter underlined part has a good deal of relevance:

But it is more than a legal issue, respect comes into it too. Surely anyone with any sense will feel that to wear something that you haven’t earned is disrespectful to the people who have earnt it. The same goes for things such as Parachute Wings and Commando Daggers – if you didn’t earn them, don’t wear them. If you feel the need to lie to people and pretend to be something that you’re not, then maybe it might be an idea to go and have a chat with your doctor and see if they can refer you for professional help.

source : https://dalyhistory.wordpress.com/2010/01/13/is-it-illegal-to-wear-un-earned-medals/

We know for certain that a legally tested offence does exist because in 2010 Roger Day was successfully prosecuted.

source: BBC News - Is it illegal to wear medals you weren't awarded? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8454715.stm)

farsouth

24th Oct 2016, 12:11

I know this thread has gone round and round the same topics, but for anyone drawn to it by the recent turn of events who doesn't have the inclination to read it from the start, this article is a very good summary of what all the fuss is about -
After Arizona desert crash, critics of British pilot say they want the truth behind famous flights | National Post (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/after-arizona-desert-crash-critics-of-british-pilot-say-they-want-the-truth-behind-famous-flights)

Mike Flynn

24th Oct 2016, 12:23

Does it really take three years to earn the RAF brevet?

Chris Scott

24th Oct 2016, 12:25

Re pilotmike post #2001, quote from Wiki:
"...the biplane was similar to Lady Heath's in size and design..."

I think it needs to be said here, for the benefit of readers who may not (yet) be aviation anoraks, that the statement is misleading.

The Stearman first flew in the mid-1930s, whereas Lady Heath flew her Avro Avian from Cape Town to England (Croydon) in 1928.

While the wingspan and fuselage-length of the Stearman are only slightly greater than Heath's Avro Avian and Amy Johnson's DH Gypsy Moth, the Stearman is a far more robust and powerful machine. Its loaded weight is about twice that of either, and its original versions had well over twice the power of Heath's 84 horse-power Avian. Ms Curtis-Taylor's aircraft has over three times the power.

Mike Flynn

24th Oct 2016, 12:52

There is so much of her story that does not add up Chris and the choice of Stearman must have been to satisfy primary sponsors Boeing. A DH Moth would have been a near period as possible and there are plenty flying in Africa and Australia despite the 'heat'.

In my opinion The Spirit of Artemis was never planned to "emulate" Mary Heath or Amy Johnson.
It was a high profile PR excercise makin a semi period reality tv show with plenty of low flying and great vistas.

As for the so called "outreach" I would substitute that for exploitation of the local people enroute to add atmosphere to her film.

By way of example TCT and Ewald arrived in Darwin in no great rush to reach Sydney.
They then flew to Lajamanu which is a remote airstrip a long way west of the normal VFR route from Darwin to Alice via Tennant Creek.

Lajamanu is an aborginal settlement but has a decent airstrip,with Avgas and Jet1. This is the place she described as having Aborigines scrambling for fuel.

Here is the approach from poster sgtbilko

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kx53p0u7SWQ

And here is TCT departing with Ewald

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wXUf4NoaK3Y

I think they chose this site for the sake of the film they were making to give dramatic effect with landscape and local people.

Her is a short clip on the community.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oKXHXwXRmOk

Darwin to Alice is an easy trip and I speak from experience having flown it.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

24th Oct 2016, 13:15

To answer Jay's query:

Depends upon what you set as the start marker. To earn the brevet you need to complete officer training first, and of course before that there are all the interviews and aptitude tests, and before that the work towards the dream.
For my lad in the RN:
From joining Dartmouth to getting his wings was 3 years and 6 months, from starting EFT to completing BFJT and getting his wings was 1 year and 11 months.
He had about 18 months of waiting and tests, and interviews etc before joining, throw on top of that the time and energy he spent in the cadets working towards his target and the years before that dreaming of what he wanted to do.

I have a school letter he wrote aged 9 outlining his dream to be a sea-harrier pilot...so in his case it has taken 11 years of hard work to achieve his dream.

...and here she is flaunting them the way a cow at a farmers market wears a rosette - as if they are meaningless.

pulse1

24th Oct 2016, 13:16

Does it really take three years to earn the RAF brevet?

As an anxious parent watching his son go through the FAA version it certainly seemed like three years, with the threat of the chop always there. I know that what annoys him about TCT is that RAF/FAA wings mean that the holder is(or at least was) "operational ready", not just that they have been trained to operate a flying machine.

noflynomore

24th Oct 2016, 13:26

Re the GPS and "legal requirement in controlled airspace".

I seem to recall from years back that transit of Egypt required a light aircraft or helicopter to follow airways at a quite ridiculous level, FL120 or so - probably due to the military state's paranoia VFR was either not recognised or was not allowed at low level.

It could well be that states with regs as restrictive as this might require a GPS in order to follow the airway - so TCT's statement about GPS being required may, once again, contain a localised nub of truth.

Oh yes, and
And take off the RAF wings.

And the RN uniform too.

How on earth is she going to stand up (in that uniform?) as Guest of Honour at the Taranto Night dinner at BRNC next month?
This is going to get more and more interesting as time goes on.

clareprop

24th Oct 2016, 13:27

farsouth:

I've always maintained that article is 'the smoking gun'. Apart from the many news articles reporting her 'solo' flight, which TCT or her representatives never corrected, that article has an image of her standing in front of a giant presentation foil which states:'7000 miles in 32 legs over 6 weeks, alone in an open cock-pit(sic) plane' That single image makes a mockery of her protestations about 'sole' flying and how she can't be held responsible for what others say and write about her.

Mike Flynn

24th Oct 2016, 13:51

The Honourable Company Of Air Pilots hold their awards dinner this Thursday 27th October

Given the Daily Telegraph story today are they still planning to give her a Masters Medal alongside Tim Peake despite having the embarrassment of rescinding this letter earlier in the year?
https://s21.postimg.org/n3l91vzdj/image.jpg

I have had quite a few pm's suggesting the award could be overturned by votes at the HCAP AGM next spring. Rumour has it some of the younger members and indeed the Australian and Hong Kong branches are not happy.

20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Steve Slater,chief exec of the LAA is quoted in today's Telegraph.

“This issue has divided opinion but it is not for me to decide.

“I am happy that the members feel able to air their views and it’s down to the members to decide.

“The award was made in good faith but in the light of what has emerged since we made the award, it is fair to say maybe we would have made a different decision.”

robin

24th Oct 2016, 14:43

Perhaps TCT has some sort of chip on her shoulder about her rejection by the RAF.

BUT TAKE THAT RAF FLYING BADGE OFF YOUR FLYING SUIT! You are NOT entitled to wear one, even if Prince Michael of Kent gave it to you. It takes three years of damned hard work to earn one.

There, I've been on PPRuNe since May 1995 and that's the first time I've ever raised my voice in capital letters!

Just a question

Is it some sort of family brevet - Dad, Uncle etc? If so I can sort of agree that it might be just about acceptable. If not - as above....

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

24th Oct 2016, 14:48

Just a question

Is it some sort of family brevet - Dad, Uncle etc? If so I can sort of agree that it might be just about acceptable. If not - as above....
I may be wrong but I understand that the wearing of family medals and such like is permitted but convention dictates that they are not worn as to receive undue credit. I could wear, on certain occasions, my father's and grandfather's medals but these would be worn over my right breast. I suspect similar would apply to a brevet where it is worn as a mark of remembrance rather than self aggrandizement.

Danny42C

24th Oct 2016, 14:49

Jay Sata (#2022),

Interested in the Wings she's sporting in the pic above. At a guess, they appear to be (a) slightly smaller than the standard drab silk normal pattern, and (b) in gold lace. And (as has been pointed out already on this Thread), they show a King's Crown on top. Queen Elizabeth came to the Throne on 6th February, 1952.

Where had I seen a similar thing before ? A search on "Pilot's Brevet" Thread (Military Aviation Forum) yielded my Post (page 165, #3288). Excerpt follows:

...I'd picked a bad time to buy a new SD.
Around 1950, the Service Dress jacket pattern had changed from the pre-war style. This was the story as I heard it. Pre-war, there had been a Mess Kit for RAF officers: a very natty short pale blue "Eton" jacket and waistcoat, and a gold stripe down the side of the "trews". The war had put all these into mothballs "for the duration", and in the austere post-war years it had continued to be thought inappropriate (and too expensive) to revive their use. For dinners and functions in Mess, your No. 1 uniform was quite good enough.

But there were mutterings among some older and senior officers (who had kept their Mess kits and were still able to get into them) that this was "letting the side down" and amounted to a lapse in standards. There was a Committee somewhere in Air Ministry which busied itself with these matters. Some bright spark came up with a compromise. Why not have a SD jacket which could double as a Mess kit top ? People now wore battledress all the time on duty: off duty you always wore mufti. The only time your SD came out of the wardrobe was for parades and Mess functions - when you wore it with a white shirt and a black bow.

It seemed that King George VI took a keen interest in these proceedings - after all, he had been an RAF officer as Duke of York in the twenties. He had the last word in any change in the Sealed Pattern of any Service uniform. He approved this idea of a dual-purpose SD jacket. Now to design one to his liking.

I can only report that the Committee and its royal patron took leave of their collective senses. What they came up with was an incredible thing. The back centre seam of the jacket was replaced by a double "syce cut" (like an old policeman's tunic). The lower patch pockets came off. The fourth (bottom) button below the buckle came off, replaced by a small, flat button to go under it. To cap it all, the wings were in gold lace !...

The decision (which evoked howls of derision and execration) was reversed after a year or so. But one last trace of the folly was stubbornly retained; the old wartime four-button jacket came back (inc. centre back seam and patch pockets) - but the small, flat button under the buckle still replaced the fourth button.

Meanwhile many people (and I) had bought the wretched things (and were heavily out of pocket). For we chucked them away, got out our old jackets and chopped the bottom button off, shrugged the buckle down a bit, and Bob's yer uncle ! - new patten jacket.

Could T.C.-T. have found one of these 65 year old garments and cut the gold lace wings off ? More likely they were knocked up by a goldsmith in the local (Indian) bazaar. But then why do a King's crown ?

"Curiouser and curiouser", said Alice.

D.

WeeJeem

24th Oct 2016, 14:51

.
I'm glad to hear that the LAA side of things has gone in what I would regard as an appropriate direction.

But, as others have said, I don't believe for a second that this is the end of the affair. There's too much at stake for too many involved parties for that, in various forms including public credibility, corporate carelessness, misrepresentation, ego and money.

Ah, yes - money.
Money.
Money, money, money.
And you know what they say..."When in doubt, follow the money."

It looks like here BIAB web site has been changed....or at least that pop up highlighting her side of the controversy seems to have disappeared.

Is this the text you had in mind?, dd? If so, it's still on the website (or at least for the moment).

STATEMENT
A small number of recent articles about my flights have suggested or implied that I have misrepresented or have sought to mislead people into believing that I undertook my flights alone and without support. I am considering taking legal action against the individuals who were the sources for these articles as I consider them to be part of a course of conduct designed to cause damage and distress.
The facts are:
I have never made false assertions about the nature of my flights and I dismiss the suggestion that they are "mired in controversy". Any controversy that has arisen has been as a result of the actions of the individuals referred to above.
As I have stated previously, I began with the intention of trying to fly the Africa flight solo (as the original descriptive materials from Nylon films show) but a combination of elements resulted in fundamental changes being made to the nature of that expedition. Several people flew with me on multiple legs between Cape Town and the UK. These included sponsors, film crew and my engineer, Ewald Gritsch.
The expedition was project managed by Nylon Films and they controlled the expedition website 'Cape Town to Goodwood' and its promotional information and sub-contractors. I have never sought to mislead anyone about the way that my flights were undertaken. It is clear from what I say about the Africa flight and subsequent expeditions that they were not solo flights and that I was accompanied by a support crew.
Ewald Gritsch is not my flying instructor and nor did he fly my aeroplane at any material time (click here to see statement from Ewald Gritsch himself (http://www.stearman.at/Statement_SR.html)). Specifically, he did not fly my aeroplane instead of me during any of the flights comprising the Africa, Australia or US expeditions. Ewald's primary role in all of these expeditions has been to provide engineering, technical and flight planning support. He is my principal crew and the only person who is fully qualified to look after the aeroplane in what have been some very testing circumstances. I say “material time” above because he has flown my aeroplane for the purposes of providing engineering and technical support and for recreational purposes.
As a result of the difficult experiences in Africa we adopted an entirely different approach for the Australia and US expeditions. These were managed through my company, Bird in a Biplane. At no time was there any suggestion that these later expeditions were solo flights, although some of the press coverage erroneously reported that they were. I cannot control what other people say about what I do, whether it be in the media or otherwise.
Ewald and I undertook all of the logistical planning for the UK to Australia flight and with the support of one of my principal sponsors, Boeing, and the Britain is Great Campaign, were able to build an extensive outreach programme around the expedition, connecting with young people and raising the profile of women in aviation around the world. This will feature prominently in the documentary film which is currently being edited.
I consider the real achievement of the past five years not just a flying feat, but the sustained effort of raising the funding and building the network of international support for my outreach programme which made the whole programme possible.

Tracey Curtis-Taylor
www.birdinabiplane.com
(Source (http://www.birdinabiplane.com/oct_statement/))

A couple of wee aside might be in order here:1/ The "Source" url provided is "http://www.birdinabiplane.com/oct_statement/", the latter part of which bears of little brain such as myself might suppose to be a shorthand "October Statement".
When one view the link and looks at the tab name or one prints it (see attached pdf), one sees "Statement - 11th June 2016".

How strange. :ooh:
Or maybe it doesn't say that at all and I'm just misreading or misinterpreting it - as so many people seem to do in this matter. :rolleyes:
2/ Anyone familiar with the UK's Data Protection Act or its libel laws will immediately recognise the phrase "damage and distress". I'm sure this is just a coincidental choice of phrasing and not at all put there following legal counsel. :hmm:
I've also attached a copy of Herr Gritsch's statement (http://www.stearman.at/Statement_SR.html) for convenience (and, of course, posterity). I have to say that reading it, like reading the NTSB "report", has triggered WeeJeem's Niggles again, more of which anon :cool:

deefer dog

24th Oct 2016, 15:13

Absolutely clareprop,

TCT can use measle mouth words and explanations as much as she wants, and even try to twist "sole pilot" to take on the well established meaning of "solo pilot," but it would take a lexicographer with magical powers to make "alone in a biplane" have the same meaning as "with someone else in a biplane."

Smoking gun indeed, and one I think TCT's junior barrister might have trouble in dealing with if she hopes to prove that the ney sayers have no argument.

Here's THAT photo:

After Arizona desert crash, critics of British pilot say they want the truth behind famous flights | National Post (http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/after-arizona-desert-crash-critics-of-british-pilot-say-they-want-the-truth-behind-famous-flights)

Stanwell

24th Oct 2016, 15:13

Oh dear, Tracey..
One of your two major sponsors, BOEING, don't seem to be able to get things right either, eh?
Because the last time I looked at their website, just some weeks ago, they were still trumpeting your 'expedition' as "SOLO".
The sheer incompetence of their PR department!
Or, perhaps, it had just slipped your mind to have a word with them as well?
Silly girl.
.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

24th Oct 2016, 15:43

The story has now been picked up by the BBC

Biplane adventurer Tracey Curtis-Taylor stripped of award - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-37752264)

and this one from the BT news page http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/bird-in-a-biplane-dismisses-sole-pilot-claims-11364107736716

advises that "She will be taking legal action."

Katamarino

24th Oct 2016, 15:56

What a very light-weight article from the BBC. They ignore the real issues. All their online news seems to be written for people with an attention span limited to 30 seconds.

noflynomore

24th Oct 2016, 16:27

With her airplane, the Boeing Stearman "Spirit of Artemis", she was on static and/or ylying display at the Royal International Air Tattoo in 2013, 2014 and 2015, at the Goodwood Revival / Glorious Goodwood, in 2014 at the RNAS Yeovilton Air Day in 2013, 2014 and 2015 , as well as the Cowes Regatta.
In 2015 she flew at the Amy Johnson Memorial Air Show at Herne Bay, Kent, England.[10]
In 2015 she was displaying at the Dubai Airshow and in the years 2014 and 2016 at the Farnborough International Airshow.

Wikipedia

What a weaselly-worded paragraph that is! Love the typo (?) in the first sentence!

That and/or. Just for the record, can anyone confirm which of those shows she appeared at as static and which as flying? It would be nice to see this once again hugely misleading paragraph amended to something that relates more clearly to reality.

Did she fly in the display at any of these, or was her presence purely static? For the benefit of anyone unsure of the meaning of "in the display" I mean during the display itself. Flying into and out of the venue does not count unless it involved an official display routine.

RIAT and Yeovilton, '13, '14 and '15.
Goodwood '14
Dubai '15
Farnborough '14 and '16

That's 10 displays that they are implying she may have flown at on the basis of an "and/or" semantic weasel by including Cowes Regatta in the list. I can find no record of her flying at any of those ten, can anyone else?

I accept she probably wasn't static at the massive and important Cowes Regatta Airshow but the Herne Bay event seems the only one they're actually stating she flew in. What of all the others?

It isn't doing much for her reputation as a truth teller if her supporters are writing such transparently and deliberately misleading stuff on her Wiki page. Hasn't enough damage been done to her reputation by spouting this kind of deliberate obfuscation already?

Maintaining the Big Lie is a futile effort. The truth will out.

Chris Scott

24th Oct 2016, 16:32

Yes, Katamarino. Very much written from the lady's current perspective. The selective quotes from Messrs Gritsch and Rutherford seem to have been chosen to minimise the degree of the deception. It'll be interesting to hear what Sam Rutherford has to say in his next post here.

B Fraser

24th Oct 2016, 16:43

She was static at Yeovilton and I was static at this year's Fairford, in very similar circumstances i.e. neither of us are the registered owners according to official records.

Will I ever say that I "displayed" ? Never in a month of Sundays.

ShyTorque

24th Oct 2016, 16:49

Does it really take three years to earn the RAF brevet?
It certainly did in the time that T C-T would have entered RAF training, had she been able. The Flying badge (Wings) were only awarded after advanced flying training was completed.
The RAF would also take them back again if "combat ready" status wasn't achieved with in a certain time period on an operational squadron (six months, I believe, it might have been as long as nine months to allow for remedial training). This happened to an ex-colleague of mine.

I also recall that when the RAF first advocated using civilian flying instructors to supplement RAF trained QFIs/QHIs (early 1990s?), it was put forward that they "would be integrated so as to be indistinguishable from the squadron instructors, including the wearing of the RAF flying badge on their flying clothing", or words to that effect. It caused universal uproar.

Everyone agreed that they should be given the same pay, flying clothing and even equivalent rank tabs, but RAF "Wings" were held sacrosanct. I believe the latter was respected by the RAF/MOD.

But not by some....

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

24th Oct 2016, 16:50

This should be interesting:
'Bird in a biplane' hits back at claims she did not fly solo as she threatens legal action (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/24/bird-in-a-biplane-hits-back-at-claims-she-did-not-fly-solo-as-sh/)

The same paper that has confirmed to me that TCT made the comment about being "...on my own".

The author of this article may do well to speak to Katie Archer, the Editorial Compliance Executive who assured me she had verified the story with the journalist who took the interview, Nicola Harley.

Now, just where did I put my popcorn. :ok:

Midlifec

24th Oct 2016, 16:50

Does she have a display authorisation? Just wondered as we have not heard it claimed....

B Fraser

24th Oct 2016, 17:09

If you click on Mr Satco's link, the story contains the phrase "it is clear ......... that these were not solo flights"

At the foot of the page, there is a video with a rather unfortunate title " British aviator Tracey Curtis-Taylor lands in Australia after flying 3 months solo from UK"

Ooops !

Cows getting bigger

24th Oct 2016, 17:41

"I have never sought to mislead anyone about the way that my flights were undertaken.

It is clear from what I say about the Africa flight and subsequent expeditions that they were not solo flights and that I was accompanied by a support crew"

http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s480/john_fischer3/IMG_1210_zpsj8puhetf.jpg

Of course :=she's never sought to mislead.

Haraka

24th Oct 2016, 17:43

There is an hysterically inept attempt at a rearguard action floundering about on her Wiki site of late. On these bases(?) of argument(s) a court hearing could indeed be an amusing spectacle. .

ShyTorque

24th Oct 2016, 18:00

Quite some long time ago I seem to recall a case of an aircraft accident in UK where both pilots on board were held to blame by the CAA. One of the pilots claimed that he could not be held liable because he wasn't a designated member of the crew. The CAA disagreed, stating that if you're sitting in a crew seat and qualified to fly the type you're part of the crew. Unfortunately I cannot recall when or where this was, but the thought has always stuck with me since.

strake

24th Oct 2016, 18:05

Her Wikipedia page is like watching one of those flicker books. This morning, it seemed like there was quite a sensible explanation on there with a contribution from the CEO of the LAA. Right now (although who knows what it will be in the next few seconds), after a day of reporting in the media and the BBC actually calling her a liar, there's now just two lines under 'Controversy' with the LAA demoted to 'a UK body'. It seems to me the 'Controversy' is over - it's now out in the open as fact.

deefer dog

24th Oct 2016, 18:22

WeeJeem,

Thanks, yes that was the warning that popped up on her site that I once saw, but when I log onto her site it no longer pops up for me. No worries.

Yes, I did notice the line about damage and distress. I would have thought that anyone who brings it upon themselves as a result of not being being completely honest about their achievements, or who peddles half truths or is extremely careless with the truth, deserves to suffer from damage and distress once they get exposed. Many might suffer this as a result of their own conscience, but not everyone has one of these.

I cannot imagine for one moment Boeing, Artemis or TCT wanting this to EXPLODE on the front pages and onto everyone's tea time TV just yet. She has an unfinished trip to pick up soon, and perhaps a different passenger to find if she isn't able (or circumstances and logics don't allow) fly it all by herself. Alone that is.

Also, I'd be interested to learn who is writing these warning shots. They need to improve their use of English grammar.

pulse1

24th Oct 2016, 18:41

ShyTorque,

This is probably the accident you are thinking of:

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=18692

As I used to fly a lot with a more experienced pilot it meant something to me too.

sophi

24th Oct 2016, 18:45

According to the UK Daily Telegraph PPRuNe is a respected forum. I agree with that.

I wonder why Tracey Curtis Taylor or her supporters have not used these pages to put forward their side of the story or answered any of the points put by those who are complaining about deception?

Please Tracey, come and tell us your side of the story. If some here are making untrue accusations I am sure you could settle the matter. You could help the problem go away.

I'm also sure that the people here are mostly genuine, and maybe if they need to apologise they will do it. Likewise if you have made some mistakes, I'm sure any apology from you will be taken gracefully.

Could you engage with us please Tracey?

Sir Niall Dementia

24th Oct 2016, 18:51

Ref T C-T flying at RIAT 2013, see post 2009 on this thread.

I flew every day in the display at RIAT 2013, I have no memory of T C-T at the daily pilots' briefing, nor do I remember ever seeing the Stearman flying in the display.

My memory may have been affected by the astonishing level of booze the Frecce poured down me at the last night hangar party, but I'm certain T C-T never displayed anything unless she was one of the stunning samba dancers wearing nothing but feathers and heels who entertained that night.

SND

mary meagher

24th Oct 2016, 18:57

I saw the BBC story - as usual attempting to give both sides...when actually there is only one. And the last word was she's planning to sue...for what, I wonder?

I started flying at age 50, and have over 3,000 hours, 1,800 instructing and competing in single seat gliders (with the three diamond solo flights all in the UK) and 1,200 hours in power, mostly pulling up gliders with a PA 150 supercub. And represented the UK in the Women's European Championships in 1989 in the Soviet Union - in a single seat (of course) Jantar III, came in last over all but didn't bend it. In fact I have never bent an aircraft, and now at 83 I have to fly with a safety pilot....and its all in my book, with photos to prove it. So there.

The problem with women doing more flying is NOT lack of ability, it is we have, in general, less money, and more important things to do. Like raising a family. We do not need to be equal to men, we have different priorities, and different qualities. Viva la difference!

Lafyar Cokov

24th Oct 2016, 19:04

Well put Mary - if people like you were given the oxygen of publicity more than some others then the cause of female pilots would be furthered greatly - for all the right reasons!

I've found a strange lack of correction by Ms Curtis-Taylor on her Fakebook page - I think her lawyers should be informed!!

http://i.imgur.com/PiQZEGR.jpg

clareprop

24th Oct 2016, 19:08

Lafyar:

Very good spot. That's up there with the presentation slide image...irrefutable.

Bring on the lawsuit.

paco

24th Oct 2016, 19:15

I had the pleasure of flying with several excellent female pilots, even in Dubai, which was even more extraordinary.

Phil

FlyingGoat

24th Oct 2016, 19:44

Maybe, as you gradually disintegrate TCT, you might reflect on an extract from Gustave Le Bon's 1895 work titled, "Psychology of Crowds":

“An individual in a crowd is a grain of sand amid other grains of sand, which the wind stirs up at will....By the mere fact that he forms part of an organised crowd, a man descends several rungs in the ladder of civilisation. Isolated, he may be a cultivated individual; in a crowd, he is a barbarian — that is, a creature acting by instinct.”

There are three causes that produce the distinct characteristics of a crowd. The first cause is anonymity. “The individual forming part of a crowd acquires, solely from numerical considerations, a sentiment of invincible power which allows him to yield to instincts which, had he been alone, he would perforce have kept under restraint. The sentiment of responsibility which always controls individuals disappears entirely in crowds.”

The second cause of a crowd’s special characteristics is contagion. “In a crowd every sentiment and act is contagious, and contagious to such a degree that an individual readily sacrifices his personal interest to the collective interest.”

The third and final cause of a crowd’s characteristics is suggestibility. “The most careful observations seem to prove that an individual immersed for some length of time in a crowd soon finds himself — either in consequence of the magnetic influence given out by the crowd, or from some other cause of which we are ignorant — in a special state, which much resembles the state of fascination in which the hypnotized individual finds himself in the hands of the hypnotist.”

27/09

24th Oct 2016, 20:36

Did anyone notice anything slightly unusual in this clip posted earlier.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wXUf4NoaK3Y

I thought it highly unusual and certainly poor airmanship that Tracey was waving enthusiastically while she was commencing taxying and starting the turn onto the taxy way.

She wasn't watching where she was going and I'd have thought she would have needed both hands, one on the throttle and one on the stick. Unless of course she wasn't the Flying Pilot for that leg.

Katamarino

24th Oct 2016, 20:43

I went to an airshow yesterday with all kinds of extremely experienced and respected display pilots and they were pretty much all waving enthusiastically. I think we're starting to scrape the barrel a bit when it comes to criticism on some aspects.

Chris Scott

24th Oct 2016, 20:59

Interesting stuff, Flying Goat, and fair comment as a general rule.

When the documentary of her journey from Cape Town to Goodwood was first shown on BBC4, many of us watched it with no little enthusiasm (bar a few nit-picks, perhaps) and one of our regulars started a thread in the AH&N forum of PPRuNe in some praise of it:

http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/558368-lady-who-flew-africa.html#post8906270

It wasn't until post #17 in that thread that Sam Rutherford brought us down to earth by calling into question the claim on her website and elsewhere that she had flown solo. I'm not sure his first post quite sunk in with all of us.

Talking of crowd behaviour brings to mind the old nursery tale about the King's new suit of clothes. No one dares call his bluff, and there's much sycophantic praise at his sartorial good taste. When someone eventually announces that he is indeed stark naked, however, there follows a wave of either anger or great merriment - or perhaps a combination of both. Meanwhile, the flunkies try to shut up the whistle-blowers with various threats, simultaneously putting as positive a spin on the matter as possible to the public.

Gonzo

24th Oct 2016, 21:24

Wow.

I've just gone back through her Facebook timeline to the GB-Australia flight. Lots of news stories shared by her (or her PR team) with headlines including the word 'solo'. No attempt to put the record straight.

Also if you look hard enough there's a post where she's wishing those in the RN and RM a happy Christmas, with her saluting in her RNR uniform. There's a comment from someone asking where she got her military wings from.

There was no reply.

mikehallam

24th Oct 2016, 22:02

Headline seen on the Independent Newspaper (UK)

"The Independent
Whenever you lie, your brain adjusts to make telling bigger whoppers easier, study finds"

Whenever you lie, your brain adjusts to make telling bigger whoppers easier, study finds | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/lying-study-brain-changes-to-make-telling-bigger-lies-easier-a7377481.html)

mike hallam

Cessnafly

24th Oct 2016, 22:14

LIAR BIRD IN A BIPLANE? Brit aviator stripped of award but denies making ‘false assertions’ about solo South Africa to UK flight
The Sun‎ - 18 mins ago

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjC2_7xufTPAhWkAcAKHXs5AUkQqQIIJDAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thesun.co.uk%2Funcategorized%2F2042039 %2Fbrit-aviator-stripped-of-award-but-denies-making-false-asserstions-about-solo-south-africa-to-uk-flight%2F&usg=AFQjCNHNNFs72sGD1wEYWDPkDwkdq05O1Q

Fly-by-Wife

24th Oct 2016, 22:28

“The most careful observations seem to prove that an individual immersed for some length of time in a crowd soon finds [her]self — either in consequence of the magnetic influence given out by the crowd, or from some other cause of which we are ignorant — in a special state, which much resembles the state of fascination in which the hypnotized individual finds [her]self in the hands of the hypnotist.”

Sounds very much like TCT amongst her PR team, sponsors and patrons.

FBW

Mike Flynn

25th Oct 2016, 03:15

Tracey now appears to be back tracking on the solo claims despite hundreds of articles she failed to correct.

However in both of her long distance flight she claimed to be emulating Mary Heath and Amy Johnson.

Both of those women flew alone,solo,without other pilots on board etc.

A reminder here of the meaning of emulate.

match or surpass (a person or achievement), typically by imitation.
"most rulers wished to emulate Alexander the Great"
synonyms: imitate, copy, reproduce, mimic, mirror, echo, follow, model oneself on, take as a model, take as an example;

piperboy84

25th Oct 2016, 03:17

Expanding on WeeJeems "follow the money" theme (post 2039). Contained in TCT's "Damage and Distress" statement is the following:

"The expedition was project managed by Nylon Films and they controlled the expedition website 'Cape Town to Goodwood' and its promotional information and sub-contractors"

I wonder just how Nylon paid for either their direct employees salaries, sub-contractor invoices or any bills whatsoever for filming the expedition, as according to Companies House a "dormant company" filing was made for the fiscal years before, during and after the documentary was shot signifying Nylon had zero income or expenses and no assets or liabilities. Surely the final edit of TCT's trip being in the can and ready to flog to broadcasters would have a significant value to reflect on their balance sheet?

piperboy84

25th Oct 2016, 04:01

Oh Oh, its looking like it wasn't just Colin Powell that bull****ted the UN.:=

Where global solutions are shaped for you | Library & Archives | Tracey Curtis Taylor. Epic Adventures in Aviation. - Film Screening: "The Aviatrix" (http://www.unog.ch/unog/website/library.nsf/(httpLibraryTalksByYear_en)/44B0A77E97E33C5FC1257F95002B27FF?OpenDocument&year=2016&navunid=A3609D61BE9ADE32C125792500519C47)

Mike Flynn

25th Oct 2016, 04:09

The UN chose this picture to promote that talk and screening.
https://s18.postimg.org/mexdwgl09/image.jpg
Ewald clearly trying to hide from the cameras in Sydney.

I don't think Nylon Films controlled TCT accepting the Bill Woodham trophy knowing she did not deserve it.

Or the solo certificate from the Australian Women Pilots Association.

piperboy84

25th Oct 2016, 04:17

I don't think Nylon Films controlled TCT accepting the Bill Woodham trophy knowing she did not deserve it.

So who did write the cheques for the filming with a view no doubt of a healthy return on the back of TCT's "solo" and award winning (now rescinded) flights when the documentary was sold?

BEagle

25th Oct 2016, 04:44

I see that certain Hungarian IP address user has been editing the 'controversy' section of the woman's Wikipedia entry yet again....:rolleyes:

Thus making it even more of a complete farce.

There was a 3 minute piece on the BBC's South Today about the woman's exploits yesterday evening - see BBC iPlayer - South Today - Evening News: 24/10/2016 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07z8ftn/south-today-evening-news-24102016) from 08:54 - the link is only available for UK viewers with TV licences and will be discontinued after 14:00 (UK time) today.

Mike Flynn

25th Oct 2016, 05:08

Sadly I cannot watch that as I am not in the UK.

What did it say?

I guess stock footage mostly.

Did they interview her?

tmmorris

25th Oct 2016, 06:47

No interview but at least the BBC understands the meaning of 'solo' and is very clear about it. Oddly almost all the film clips of her flying show her solo - almost as if she made sure those were the only ones she made available to the media...

BEagle

25th Oct 2016, 07:17

Several of the clips clearly showed the woman flying other than solo. Including in close formation with what I guess was the support aircraft.

She was 'uncontactable today' according to the BBC...

The item included an interview with Phil Croucher of Caledonian Advanced Pilot Training, who explained the meaning of 'solo'!

The item concluded by mentioning that the woman is, according to her website, 'considering legal action'.

Jonzarno

25th Oct 2016, 07:29

The item concluded by mentioning that the woman is, according to her website, 'considering legal action'.

If she does that then, given the rates charged by M'Learned Friends, I would imagine that there's a good chance she will end up financially as well as morally bankrupt.

In addition, of course, such an action would also just give this sorry saga even more legs. :rolleyes:

clareprop

25th Oct 2016, 07:39

I have to say I was quite surprised at the BBC reports. The website was particularly direct in calling her 'a liar'.

Possibly setting up their stall before the inevitable questions are asked about why they screened a documentary about her flying solo?

I think it's all over bar the shouting anyway. Checking this morning, the Times has it on their site now. Every report I've seen has her protesting she was 'always' the 'sole' pilot but then there is a clip or copy report under the article showing her accepting solo status. It comes down to the fact that anyone who read those articles at the time (or indeed, the people who wrote them) wouldn't have even considered that she wasn't flying solo - especially as her website at the time claimed she was doing so.

As far as the Wikipedia site is concerned, I don't think a two-line 'Controversy' section is valid anymore. It isn't controversy, it's the fact that she and her team pulled the wool over the eyes of the public and the media and that is fast becoming a bigger issue than her flights.

pilotmike

25th Oct 2016, 08:52

clivewatson's excellent piece about Bake Off and the dangers of changing tried and tested recipies (post 1986): Outreach, my @rse! More like Bake Off.

This was never about outreach, it's always been about her and a brilliantly executed sales pitch that secured her a round the world jolly on someone else's dollar! If it had been executed as planned, good for her, if she had announced the change of plan and still done the trip as amended, good for her again, but….
is a very good read.

It inspired me to compile a list of things NOT to do when flogging a profitable cake recipe under a highly-hyped and trusted brand:

1) stick to the exact ingredients you advertised 'on the tin'

2) never be tempted to over-egg the mixture

3) avoid adding a pinch of salt - it can become addictive. Next thing you know, it has so much salt added it leaves a foul taste

4) avoid all artificial flavourings. Once detected, they leave a foul taste to those who rightfully expected all natural ingredients as listed on the tin, see 3 above

5) when caught changing the recipe, admit it immediately and apologise. It will probably save your reputation and your brand. Trying instead to redefine that well known four letter 'S' word (salt?) and then blaming others for having defective senses is ridiculous and smacks of the worst arrogance. Definition of defective senses include taste, eg. tasting salt where there was supposed to be none. Also sight, eg. seeing double, for example 2 pilots seen in an aircraft for a flight which was touted as being solo or 'alone'.

Breaking any of these fundamental rules could cause embarrassment. Breaking all of them is certain to kill the brand - the golden goose - meaning no more eggs for baking with. Then, the only egg will be highly visible, all over the face.

Planemike

25th Oct 2016, 08:57

The item concluded by mentioning that the woman is, according to her website, 'considering legal action'.
I am a tad perplexed. Just exactly who would TCT sue? What would she sue them for? I know this one is rather hypothetical but what would be her chances of success in any such lawsuit?

KelvinD

25th Oct 2016, 08:58

Canute

25th Oct 2016, 09:00

There is an excellent and thought provoking book by Jon Ronson called "So you've been publicly shamed"

I recommend that before everybody gets too excited about her downfall that you read it.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

25th Oct 2016, 09:06

We must all exercise caution, I hear she is a fully qualified barrister.
.
.
.
.

sorry, stand easy, I meant barista, skills picked up whilst working as a waitress.

jumpseater

25th Oct 2016, 09:12

SND Re RIAT 2013 and Stearman Flying displays
this link indicate a paucity of solo displays
Flight Timetable (http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=53469)

This links indicates a static display for a Stearman 75
RIAT 2013 Participants (http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=50523&start=275)

This area (2013), doesn't look like a flight line..
https://www.flickr.com/photos/52287882@N05/9380764905/in/album-72157670778077891/

wiggy

25th Oct 2016, 09:26

So far " Water off a duck's back" comes to mind regarding that aspect.

Waitress to Waltess?

Certainly if there's any award she is worthy of it would seem to be "Waltess of the Year".

I have a feeling she and her team are just going to try and ride this out on the basis that she has an income stream to protect and of course there is the adage that today's newspaper is tomorrow's chip wrapping.

I'd be very pleasantly suprised if HCAP change anything at this late stage, but as has been said, money/saving face and connections probably means they won't ..and I would not be at all surprised if she picks up an OBE..for much the same reasons.

Chris Scott

25th Oct 2016, 09:48

Hi KelvinD (and anyone else new to this debate who is overawed by the prospect of scanning through 2000-plus posts),

Sam Rutherford's original, whistle-blowing post - on a sister thread which predates this one - should help:

http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/558368-lady-who-flew-africa.html#post9012078

Stanwell

25th Oct 2016, 10:08

At the HCAP Trophies and Awards Committee..
I'd love to be a fly on the wall up there, where I'm sure some midnight oil is being burned.

"There must be something we can come up with to justify Tracey's Masters Medal this year, chaps."

Now, our change to the 'women and aviation technology awareness' theme might need a rethink.
After all, Tracey has publicly stated that she hates technology.
Further, while it's true that she has created a good deal of 'awareness', do we really want to go down that path at the moment?

Put your thinking-caps on, gents - and no, I don't think "Waltess of the Year" is likely to reflect too well on the dignity and honour of this Company.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

25th Oct 2016, 10:46

I see that the Portsmouth News have picked up on the story too. How embarrassing for the Uni that gave her the Honorary Doctorate, and in a paper that will be read by a lot of Naval personnel.

Bird in a biplane hits back at ?false claims? - The News (http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/defence/bird-in-a-biplane-hits-back-at-false-claims-1-7644395)

Cessnafly

25th Oct 2016, 10:51

As Pickford's would say...we're on the move!

Media Information

For all interview requests or to request access to high resolution images for download, please contact
Tim Kelly
M: + 44 7773 325 533
E: [email protected]

Recent articles about my flights have suggested or implied that I have misrepresented or have sought to mislead people into believing that I undertook my flights alone and without support.

My position is clear and unequivocal - for clarification, please see the statements below:

Statement released by Tracey Curtis-Taylor on 24 October 2016
Statement released by Tracey Curtis-Taylor on 13 October 2016
Statement released by Ewald Gritsch, 3G Classic Aviation Europe on 13 October 2016
Statement released by Tracey Curtis-Taylor on 11 June 2016

Tracey Curtis Taylor - Aviatrix, Adventurer, Inspirational Speaker (http://www.birdinabiplane.com/media/)

crankyme

25th Oct 2016, 10:53

I'm sorry, this has gone too far
Why don't you all get back to your pipe, slippers and stale ale and let the high achievers get on with their lives!
Goodbye!!

clareprop

25th Oct 2016, 11:03

I am deeply disappointed at the comments coming from a particular source making false assertions that my flight expeditions should have been executed as solo flights – and that I have claimed them as such. I have previously stated they were not “solo flights”.

As shown in the recent statement, the first time 'sole flights' was referred to was just four months ago, in June. The award was made in 2014 - where are all the 'sole pilot' statements from then?

Cessnafly

25th Oct 2016, 11:32

Exactly Clareprop.

Clearly, there are some big players sponsoring this misrepresentation.
How Boeing could argue that they did not understand the concept of 'alone' & 'solo' is actually quite laughable.

Perhaps if Tracey does goes through the motion [which has already been suggested here] to which some through they were infallible from, Max Clifford may then have a quiet word in her ear.

B70

25th Oct 2016, 11:33

I recall a fairly short interview with TC-T on Australian radio in early January 2016; I think it was after she had landed in Sydney. I was listening very closely because I had noted that everyone seemed to be under the impression that it was a ‘solo’ flight whilst all the photos and videos showed 2 persons in the ‘plane. I hadn’t noticed any ‘passenger’ other than Ewald. I wish that I had a link to a recording or a transcript of that interview.

The interview went something like thus:

Presenter (in a preamble): This morning, we have with us the British aviatrix TC-T who has just completed a solo flight of 23, 000(?) miles from England to Sydney in 19(?) days ……. Good morning, Tracey, and congratulations………

TC-T: Ah – I must, first of all, correct you on that …………

[I listened intently]

TC-T: The flight took considerably more than 19(?) days, it took just over 3 months. I was stopping off ………….. and then there followed the usual tosh about outreach, inspiration etc.

I noted that there was absolutely NO attempt to correct the ‘solo’ statement in the presenter’s preamble.

I wonder if it is possible to get that recording – after all, Aussies have a reputation for taking a dim view of BSers!

rog747

25th Oct 2016, 11:38

This featured on local BBC News (South) last night. It seems it was one of her crew dobbed her in over the Capetown-Goodwood flight. He advised her not to accept any solo awards. She ignored the advice.
i just posted my reply on her Facebook page in response to her announcement today

''sorry to have witnessed this Hoo Hah but having seen your first rather lovely BBC documentary about your flight from CPT to the UK I must say I TOO was under the complete and full impression from all the programme and the following media hype that this was infact a SOLO flight undertaken by you, as was the Oz one as well -

i can therefore fully understand why the LAA and Pprune campaign has probably occurred - which is most unfortunate but seems to have escalated because of the lack of action by yourself to mediate the claims? just my impression but the press band wagon did not stop...

I am sure you did not go out on purpose to mislead - but as a lay man i certainly thought you flew these fights SOLO

rather than enter into nasty and costly litigation just fully explain your flights openly to all - even the BBC still says you did the flight solo from cape town on their blurb ....''

deefer dog

25th Oct 2016, 12:02

It seems that even non-pilots have no problems understanding what a "solo" flight actually means. For those who may want to quibble the FAA regulations (for those flying American registered aircraft, which the Stearman is) seem pretty clear;

14 CFR § 61.51 - Pilot logbooks;

(d) Logging of solo flight time. Except for a student pilot performing the duties of pilot in command of an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember, a pilot may log as solo flight time only that flight time when the pilot is the sole occupant of the aircraft.

On the matter of TCT's previous clarifying statements, by her own account these appeared on 11th June 16, 13th October 16 and 24th October 16, quite a long time after awards had been announced/collected, and a well after the matter first came to light.

The door has now been clarified as being shut by TCT, but it took until the horse had bolted for her to do it.

WeeJeem

25th Oct 2016, 12:07

Hi all - I just popped a quick "How To..." on the Computer/Internet Issues & Troubleshooting sub-forum, in case anyone has the need/desire to (f'rinstance) capture a web page and archive it, lest it disappear without trace and be lost for ever.

How to Archive a Web Page (http://www.pprune.org/computer-internet-issues-troubleshooting/586138-how-archive-web-page.html#post9552585)

strake

25th Oct 2016, 12:07

Crankyme:
Why don't you all get back to your pipe, slippers and stale ale and let the high achievers get on with their lives!
On this site, I'm sure you will find some stale ale mob but on this thread you'll find, amongst others:
Second world war fighter pilots
Test pilots
Military pilots
Commercial pilots
Ferry pilots
Engineers
High court judges
Specialist publication journalists
and many others.
They have reached their level of experience through hard work, hard to gain qualifications and perseverance.
Possibly that's why they don't like to see a chancer fooling the public.

rog747

25th Oct 2016, 12:09

sorry to say she had me fooled - i really thought she was doing it solo a la Amy Johnson and lady heath :(

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

25th Oct 2016, 12:10

I'm sorry, this has gone too far
Why don't you all get back to your pipe, slippers and stale ale and let the high achievers get on with their lives!
Goodbye!!
Would that be the high achievement through deception, misdirection, lies and embellishment.

Kind of misses the point of what a "high achiever" is. It grossly undermines those who are, and have reached their position with their integrity intact.

deefer dog

25th Oct 2016, 12:23

Hey Guys, l'm pleased that we are starting to hear from those who want to share another side of the story, and their opinions. We may not agree with what they write, but it may encourage more of the believers to look at and consider the evidence. Welcome them, and who knows, one day Tracey might even put in an appearance and answer a few questions.

Mike Flynn

25th Oct 2016, 12:35

She has issued a new statement.

1. This statement is made in response to commentary appearing in the media concerning the Light Aircraft Association (“LAA”) and the rescission of the Bill Woodhams Trophy which was made to me in 2014 in respect of the Cape Town to Cairo flight that year for a “feat of navigation, aviation, tenacity and endurance.”
2. The circumstances of the rescission are as follows:
a. The AGM of the LAA was held 21 October 2016 at Sywell Aerodrome in Northamptonshire. The first public reference to the agenda which included the motion “for the Review of the Woodhams’ Trophy to Tracey Curtis-Taylor” was on 4 October 2016 and was brought by two members - Barry Tempest and Chris Martyr. Prior to the AGM over 100 proxy votes had been cast in favour of the motion, along with proxy votes on the resolutions at the meeting, following the online media campaign referred to below.
b. At the AGM itself there was a broadly-based lack of knowledge among members present about this motion, the fact that I had made any previous public statements, or the fact that proxy votes had already been cast. It was suggested to the Chairman of the meeting (LAA Chairman, Brian Davies) that in the circumstances the motion should be held over to another meeting to allow a full discussion – but this was refused. At the meeting, members expressed their discomfort and that an injustice was being carried out. Of the members actually present at the meeting (about 70), the overwhelming majority voted against the motion or abstained, but the motion was nevertheless carried by the proxy votes previously cast.
3. I have stated publicly previously (11 June 2016) that I am deeply disappointed at the comments coming from a particular source making false assertions that my flight expeditions should have been executed as solo flights – and that I have claimed them as such. I have previously stated they were not “solo flights”. They are all about a collaborative team effort and celebrating the brilliant achievements of women like Amy Johnson and Lady Heath who made history when aviation was in its infancy.
4. The source referred to is Sam Rutherford who was initially a flight planning and logistics sub-contractor to the Africa expedition. By the end of that flight our logistics and flight planning were withdrawn from Mr Rutherford and brought in-house. Mr Rutherford was not engaged further by the BIAB expeditions from UK to Australia, or across USA.
5. Mr Rutherford has engaged in an online media campaign to discredit me and the BIAB team members by making false assertions concerning the expeditions and the roles of team members. I have previously stated publicly that I consider this to be part of a course of conduct designed to cause damage and distress. Mr Rutherford’s campaign is also promoted by his associate, Mike Flynn (who also operates under the pseudonym, Jay Sata) in the press and in online forums, and in particular Pprune. The actions of Mr Rutherford are now the subject of legal proceedings and have been reported to the police. Sam Rutherford is a member of the LAA – he was not present at the AGM but was represented by his proxy, Chris Martyr (see above).
6. I have received many expressions of support at the AGM referred to above (where I was present in person), from supporters of my flying and outreach programmes, and from my sponsors and affiliates, for which I am very grateful.
Tracey Curtis-Taylor
24 October 2016"

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

25th Oct 2016, 12:47

4. The source referred to is Sam Rutherford who was initially a flight planning and logistics sub-contractor to the Africa expedition. By the end of that flight our logistics and flight planning were withdrawn from Mr Rutherford and brought in-house. Mr Rutherford was not engaged further by the BIAB expeditions from UK to Australia, or across USA.

Sam Rutherford will be able to answer and clarify point 4 above. Were his services withdrawn (implies an early termination of contract) or did the contract reach its natural end?

There is a big difference between these two possibilities.

farsouth

25th Oct 2016, 12:52

l'm pleased that we are starting to hear from those who want to share another side of the story, and their opinions. We may not agree with what they write, but it may encourage more of the believers to look at and consider the evidence.

b. At the AGM itself there was a broadly-based lack of knowledge among members present about this motion, the fact that I had made any previous public statements, or the fact that proxy votes had already been cast. It was suggested to the Chairman of the meeting (LAA Chairman, Brian Davies) that in the circumstances the motion should be held over to another meeting to allow a full discussion – but this was refused. At the meeting, members expressed their discomfort and that an injustice was being carried out. Of the members actually present at the meeting (about 70), the overwhelming majority voted against the motion or abstained, but the motion was nevertheless carried by the proxy votes previously cast.

When I first read this thread, I also thought that maybe the case was being over-stated, and that maybe TCT had genuinely been misunderstood. It did not take very much in the way of background reading to come to the opposite conclusion.

I would suggest that had the voting members at the meeting who had a "broadly-based lack of knowledge.......about this motion" been aware of the "case for the motion to rescind", rather than just the, no doubt eloquently expressed but evasive "case against", then the vote would have been even more overwhelmingly for the motion.

(And for those supporters who will no doubt say that the proxy voters did not have a chance to hear the defence, it is out there on her media streams, and has failed to convince).

Mike Flynn

25th Oct 2016, 12:53

The Times story is behind a paywall.

It appears the LAA is run by blokes.

A British adventurer who won an award for flying solo on an 8,000-mile trip has been stripped of the trophy after it was alleged that she had a co-pilot on some legs of her journey.

Tracey Curtis-Taylor, the self-styled “Bird in a Biplane” who is described on her website as an “aviator, adventurer and inspirational speaker”, had the Bill Woodhams Trophy, which was awarded to her after she had flown from Cape Town to Britain in 2013, removed following a vote held by the Light Aircraft Association (LAA) on Saturday.

Ms Curtis-Taylor, 54, was stripped of the trophy at the association’s annual meeting at Sywell aerodrome, Northamptonshire, where members claimed that she had misled the public over her exploits. By 123 votes to 65, they voted for her to lose the award.

Last night Ms Curtis-Taylor said that she had never claimed to have conducted solo flights and had acknowledged that it was a “collaborative team effort”.

“It’s disgusting what has happened,” she said. “There was a palpable unease in the meeting, which was in a room full of men and just three women.”

She said that she felt “very let down by the LAA”, adding: “They have allowed themselves to be manipulated.”

Ms Curtis-Taylor, a former waitress who grew up in Canada and has lived in New Zealand, had just returned home from a two-week trip to China when she attended the AGM the next day.

She was mired in controversy after it was alleged that Ewald Gritsch, her flight instructor, had revealed that he had occupied the forward cockpit of her 1942 Boeing Stearman for most of the legs of her journeys.

Mr Gritsch dismissed claims that he had made such allegations and said that Ms Curtis-Taylor was “the sole pilot on all her expedition flights”.

Sam Rutherford, her former logistics manager, also allegedly said that Ms Curtis-Taylor had been guilty of embellishing the truth and that she had flown only four of the 36 legs from Cape Town to Goodwood, West Sussex, on her own.

Ms Curtis-Taylor previously hit back at the allegations, saying: “It is clear from what I say about the Africa flight and subsequent expeditions that they were not solo flights and that I was accompanied by a support crew. Ewald’s primary role in all these expeditions has been to provide engineering, technical and flight planning support.”

Barry Tempest, a member of the LAA, who proposed that her award be withdrawn, said: “I am delighted the award has been rescinded. I have the greatest respect for women pilots but I think Tracey Curtis-Taylor has not done a lot to further their case.

“I think that she is a boastful lady who needs bringing down a peg or two.”

Steve Slater, head of the LAA, said: “The award was made in good faith but in the light of what has emerged since . . . it is fair to say maybe we would have made a different decision.”

Share

WeeJeem

25th Oct 2016, 12:53

sorry to say she had me fooled - i really thought she was doing it solo a la Amy Johnson and lady heath :(

Don't take it personally, rog747! An awful lot depends on where you read - and when - what you read to have you coming away believing what you did.

I'll splain you:Attached are two files.

* In the first file, someone apparently made a _"solo open-cockpit biplane flight from Cape Town to Goodwood".

* In the second, someone apparently made an "___ open-cockpit biplane flight from Cape Town to Goodwood".

* The two files are chronologically separated by less that seven weeks.

* The two files apparently represent the same flight.

* The two files represent archives of the same page on the same website.

* The website is apparently that of the person who apparently made the flight.

Got it, now? :ok:

pilotmike

25th Oct 2016, 12:55

@airpoliceSo, can nobody help me with interpreting the Wiki edit from January?

Quote:
In 2013, Curtis-Taylor flew a 13,000km solo flight from Cape Town, South Africa, to England

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...ldid=699034926
I think it looks like MurielMary who defends T C-T wrote that bit.
It seems that T C-T has a lot to 'thank' MurielMary for, as she appears to have over-claimed on behalf of T C-T throughout her prolific Wiki edits to big up T C-T's achievements. She also appears to have lost all sense of balance and impartiality in her editing, possibly swayed by a pro-female-achievers agenda which was documented earlier in this thread.

It is incredible that MurielMary - and other apparently expert Wiki editors - were keen to have such snippets such as "She has a twin sister" added to a site which expressly discourages autobiographical content. Another over-zealous editor of the truth erased reference to T C-T colliding with a parked helicopter on the basis that it is "Surely not notable". How can such an avoidable collision not be notable in a Wiki built about an aviator who is about to receive another prestigious award from HCAP on the basis that:...you displayed ... commendable airmanship.... I am so very pleased that you, as an Upper Freemen[sic] of our Company, have safely achieved this feat which is deservedly worthy of the award. ?

This same one-sided agenda and lax approach to rigorous editing has ensured T C-T's 'Career' section is completely blank for the first 30 working years of her life until the age of 46, when a brief list of attending air displays somehow constitutes her career in its entirety. Others removed this on the basis that it could be interpreted as a thinly veiled CV, but the more persistent proponents of T C-T's 'achievements' repeatedly undid the edit, trying to give the impression that T C-T has made a lifelong career out of display flying.

A career is 'a job or profession that someone does for a long time', implying earning a living wage from such endeavour. How can occasionally turning up at an airshow or two have supported her until the big sponsors dug deep to fund her well publicised jollies around the world? How can it then be misconstrued into being a career?

Just saying!

Edited to add: "AviationHistory', a highly active editor who erases true if embarrassing facts from the same Wiki page at every opportunity, has again changed the status of the R44 that T C-T taxied into (The collision could have been avoided if the pilot of N56200 had ensured that the area into which it taxied was clear of obstructions, either by observation, or the use of wing-walkers or marshallers.) from Written off to merely damaged, in defiance of the CAA register which records it as "De-registered. Destroyed."

Is this another severe case of damage limitation? If so, I think she and her supporters are going to have to become true experts at it for them to survive this avalanche of facts coming to light which ruin the wonderful, glossy story that has been sold.

robin

25th Oct 2016, 13:18

Going back to the issue over whether or not Ewald was a pilot, instructor or whatever, given his experience and skills it makes the handling of the Stearman a lot easier having him there.

Even chatting over the intercom, some pearls of wisdom passed to her and, where necessary, talking her through the approach and landing, as instructors do all the time, makes it much less stressful and, in this case, less worthy of note than if she were truly solo.

I look forward to the court case - can we book tickets?

9 lives

25th Oct 2016, 13:22

A bunch of self righteous hasbeens who've done nothing in your lives in your mummies spare rooms spewing out your invective and abuse

Oh dear.... Oh well, at least we know that people who hold a view supporting TCT, are at least aware of the concern being expressed for integrity in being a pilot!

Having read absolutely every post in this thread, I observe that the theme of the thread has been reactive, rather than proactive. No one has "gone after" TCT for something she might have done, but rather called up ample evidence of deception and misinformation she had repeatedly done, and allowed to remain, long after doubt was raised.

I suspect that moderation has played a role in this thread avoiding being abusive, rather regulating it to be factual only. The evidence of statements and accusations made in this thread, is also easily found in the thread.

TCT has had ample opportunity and incentive to clear up misunderstanding, and make retractions, and it appears that there has been some very weak effort at this (so she knows she should). However, for what I have seen as objective, very multi sourced information, TCT has never really said "I did the wrong thing, and I apologize". Instead, there seems to be a smearing of terminology which could be seen as an attempt to allow an altered understanding among the less informed.

We pilots know what "solo" means, there is no doubt. We pilots know the honour of proudly wearing wings one has earned - and honouring other achievers by not wearing wings nor a uniform that you have not. A person is included well in a larger group, if they do not attempt to unfairly include themselves in a smaller group undeservingly. Those of us with integrity do not accept awards which are blatantly issued on the basis of untruthful information - we quietly decline and return them for correction.

In context, TCT has not murdered anyone, and does not deserve a span of jail time for her misleading. But rather the frequent high energy outreach based on multiple layers of deception sends a horrible message to those impressionable people new to aviation, that deceiving and misleading your way up is okay to do! No, it is not!

If TCT were a pilot under my charge, I would have prevented her public presence of "outreach" long ago. A chopped up R44, a wrecked Stearman, both needless waste of aircraft. Thank goodness her engine was okay the first time, but she did it in the second! This kind of cavalier attitude toward piloting is not what we want to appear in outreach for piloting! Low flying, busting airspace, poor planning about fuel and routing are the very things we good pilots try our best to avoid, and certainly do not embellish and publicize!

In my opinion as a four decades pilot, TCT does not and should not be representing piloting, and reaching out, with her current display of skill and integrity. If she would take a step back and withdraw her blurred assertions, perhaps we proud pilots could also take a step back. But, society does not allow an offender to continue to offend, while blurring the offense with ongoing shifting, just because of the offender's proposed altruistic objectives, or gender! An offense is an offense, and I am offended that TCT wants the public, and pilots to be, to think that the way she commits aviation is the way to go. It is not!

Mike Flynn

25th Oct 2016, 13:33

Thank you for the thought and effort put in to your post Stepturn.

Honesty and integrity still means a lot to some in this modern world where so called reality tv blurs the lines between fact and fiction.

deefer dog

25th Oct 2016, 13:44

b. At the AGM itself there was a broadly-based lack of knowledge among members present about this motion, the fact that I had made any previous public statements, or the fact that proxy votes had already been cast.

Yes Tracey, the LAA members who attended the AGM pretty much hide under stones in places where the internet, newspapers, Light Aviation, Pilot and Flyer magazines don't reach, and broadly speaking they don't read their own Hangar Chat forum on the LAA website which has been trailing this story (both sides of the argument) for months. You are hardly likely to win friends among the LAA fraternity if you openly doubt their level of knowledge.

It was only because of the controversy that was known to all members of the LAA that the matter was brought to a vote. You were given the opportunity to set out your side of the story months ago, but apart from some odd and confusing statements that attempted to redefine the meaning of "solo," neither you or your PR team would comment or respond to questions. You chose not to take part in the debate until the day of the vote where, graciously, you were given the chance to state your case. By all accounts you trotted out the same old message and said your bit. The vote took place and you lost by a very wide margin.

It is crass of you to assume that those who voted by proxy were uninformed. There was a democratic process played out according to the rules. You came second. What are you suggesting now....that we vote again, and perhaps again until you win? Get real, wake up and smell the coffee. Stamping your feet is not going to solve the underlying problem here.

rog747

25th Oct 2016, 13:48

stepturn well written and understood

i cannot fathom why TCT and her PR team would have wanted this to go like it has

fame?
arrogance?
money?

jumpseater

25th Oct 2016, 13:57

Strake
On this site, I'm sure you will find some stale ale mob but on this thread you'll find, amongst others:

Yup, ATC types.

When someone books out for a solo flight there's sort of an understanding for ATC that its just one person on board.

noflynomore

25th Oct 2016, 14:46

TCT is trying, foolishly, to ride a semantic tightrope here and her claim never to have herself described her flights as solo (there seems precious little, if any evidence that she did) may, just, be technically correct.

What is so unacceptable is her continued behaviour around that denial.

She is riding a highly lucrative wave that has been whipped up by her PR team and which is based on a falsehood that they have knowingly and deliberately perpetuated instead of correcting. The falsehood may not have been uttered by her, that is largely irrelevant if she continues not only to ride the wave but to continue promoting herself by egging the media on uncorrected in the full knowledge that it is all built on an untruth. Every time a media report referring to "solo" was published they effectively lied by failing to correct it. And correct it they seem never to have done, not once. That is pure collusion. TCT herself has repeatedly been asked in interviews/talks about her "solo" trip and has replied correcting all sorts of trivial detail, but never the word "solo" as far as we know. Thus she is fully implicated in the multiple, long term perpetration of an outright lie whether she spoke the words or not. Those that published it in good faith are merely innocent victims duped into peddling incorrect info by the conscious and deliberate omission of any correction.

The wretched woman continues to protest her innocence re claims of solo despite popping words like "sole" into her publicity, "emulating" someone whose claim was flying solo. Her crime may not be actual false claims to solo but rather running a years long scam based on others being encouraged to say so and instead of correcting their error, encouraging more and more of it. There is a cynicism in such an approach that really grates with most of us, I think, a cynicism that tries to dupe us by an enthusiastically promoted con by proxy while claiming complete and bewildered innocence.

Another example of this mindset are the claims to have "displayed" at Farnborough, RIAT and others on multiple occasions. Perhaps, semantically one could argue this is not literaly an untruth, but everyone understands that "displaying" at an airshow means flying in it, not having a stall there selling stickers, interviews and bragging. And when the claim relating to sticker stalls at a list of international events includes just one minor social flyby (Cowes Regatta, hardly an airshow) to enable the sentence to be preceeded by "static and/or flying display" at blah blah blah the words so carefully chosen not to be legalistically untrue just shriek the carefully planned intention to mislead, if not deceive.

In a way these continued, years long attempts to rake maximum advantage from widespread misinformation which you had assiduously cultivated in others, or had allowed others to cultivate unchecked that represents a far, far more cynical intent to deceive than someone who merely took advantage from a one-off fib. This extended wilful deception by refusal to correct an untruth while busily promoting it and taking full advantage of it is a very nasty thing to do indeed.

TCT should be under no illusions how the public feel about trickery like this and shouldn't be surprised at the results which will continue for some time I suspect. Continuing to assert innocence at this stage is as pointless as it is infantile.

Sam Rutherford

25th Oct 2016, 14:50

In clarification, I completed my contract on the Cape Town to Goodwood trip (leaving in Crete with the rest of the crew) as planned.

It seems that Tracey's recollection is inexact on this point.

farsouth

25th Oct 2016, 14:59

She said that she felt “very let down by the LAA”, adding: “They have allowed themselves to be manipulated

From this quote by the head of the LAA, it seems clear where the manipulation was..........

Steve Slater, head of the LAA, said: “The award was made in good faith but in the light of what has emerged since . . . it is fair to say maybe we would have made a different decision.”

Mike Flynn

25th Oct 2016, 15:00

Sam Rutherford said

In clarification, I completed my contract on the Cape Town to Goodwood trip (leaving in Crete with the rest of the crew) as planned.

It seems that Tracey's recollection is inexact on this point.

There is an implication from Bird in a Biplane Ltd you were fired or your services were dispensed with in Africa and Ewald took over.

Sam Rutherford

25th Oct 2016, 15:06

I repeat, it seems that Tracey's recollection is inexact on this point.

I was not fired and my services (including, but not limited to, baggage logistics) were very definitely not dispensed with!

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY

25th Oct 2016, 15:07

In clarification, I completed my contract on the Cape Town to Goodwood trip (leaving in Crete with the rest of the crew) as planned.

It seems that Tracey's recollection is inexact on this point.
And why am I not surprised that her version/recollection/suggestion is not entirely correct.

She would do well to read this little gem 6 Undeniable Signs Your Pride is Taking Over Your Life (http://lifeshowyouliveit.com/your-pride-is-taking-over-your-life/)

rog747

25th Oct 2016, 15:07

quote from cowes week regatta 2014 news feed online (its still there)

Cowes Week - News (http://www.cowesweek.co.uk/web/code/php/main_c.php?map=cw17&ui=cw1&style=std&override=&page=news2014&section=regatta&storynum=1061)

''Be sure to look to the skies at the race start, as the classic biplane Spirit of Artemis will be buzzing the start line. The 1940s Boeing Stearman is piloted by pioneering British Aviatrix Tracey Curtis-Taylor, who solo navigated across Africa from Cape Town to Goodwood in 2013, and Tracey will give the racing fleet on the water a stunning send off.''

WeeJeem

25th Oct 2016, 15:16

TCT is trying, foolishly, to ride a semantic tightrope here and her claim never to have herself described her flights as solo (there seems precious little, if any evidence that she did) may, just, be technically correct.

Hmmmm.

Source (https://youtu.be/Xw4ca2CoVc4?t=1767)

http://i.imgur.com/k2QgcH1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/PHMktHW.jpg

http://imgur.com/a/sZZpQ

B Fraser

25th Oct 2016, 15:19

I have been a bit puzzled as I have no recollection of seeing the Stearman displayed at Farnborough 2014. The mystery has been solved courtesy of one Michael Bristowe who has posted an image at the following location.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/126404783@N02/16559135660/

Cessnafly

25th Oct 2016, 15:26

Noflynomore said...

"TCT is trying, foolishly, to ride a semantic tightrope here and her claim never to have herself described her flights as solo (there seems precious little, if any evidence that she did) may, just, be technically correct.

What is so unacceptable is her continued behaviour around that denial.

She is riding a highly lucrative wave that has been whipped up by her PR team and which is based on a falsehood that they have knowingly and deliberately perpetuated instead of correcting. The falsehood may not have been uttered by her, that is largely irrelevant if she continues not only to ride the wave but to continue promoting herself by egging the media on uncorrected in the full knowledge that it is all built on an untruth. Every time a media report referring to "solo" was published they effectively lied by failing to correct it. And correct it they seem never to have done, not once. That is pure collusion. TCT herself has repeatedly been asked in interviews/talks about her "solo" trip and has replied correcting all sorts of trivial detail, but never the word "solo" as far as we know. Thus she is fully implicated in the multiple, long term perpetration of an outright lie whether she spoke the words or not. Those that published it in good faith are merely innocent victims duped into peddling incorrect info by the conscious and deliberate omission of any correction.

The wretched woman continues to protest her innocence re claims of solo despite popping words like "sole" into her publicity, "emulating" someone whose claim was flying solo. Her crime may not be actual false claims to solo but rather running a years long scam based on others being encouraged to say so and instead of correcting their error, encouraging more and more of it. There is a cynicism in such an approach that really grates with most of us, I think, a cynicism that tries to dupe us by an enthusiastically promoted con by proxy while claiming complete and bewildered innocence.

Another example of this mindset are the claims to have "displayed" at Farnborough, RIAT and others on multiple occasions. Perhaps, semantically one could argue this is not literaly an untruth, but everyone understands that "displaying" at an airshow means flying in it, not having a stall there selling stickers, interviews and bragging. And when the claim relating to sticker stalls at a list of international events includes just one minor social flyby (Cowes Regatta, hardly an airshow) to enable the sentence to be preceeded by "static and/or flying display" at blah blah blah the words so carefully chosen not to be legalistically untrue just shriek the carefully planned intention to mislead, if not deceive.

In a way these continued, years long attempts to rake maximum advantage from widespread misinformation which you had assiduously cultivated in others, or had allowed others to cultivate unchecked that represents a far, far more cynical intent to deceive than someone who merely took advantage from a one-off fib. This extended wilful deception by refusal to correct an untruth while busily promoting it and taking full advantage of it is a very nasty thing to do indeed.

TCT should be under no illusions how the public feel about trickery like this and shouldn't be surprised at the results which will continue for some time I suspect. Continuing to assert innocence at this stage is as pointless as it is infantile".

Nice post. Quite.

Back in the thread, someone said that a representative from the primary sponsor, Artemis Investment Management went along enroute for a jolly.

They surely must have read about the misrepresentations being made in the world press.

They also have a duty of care and are indeed a company that are regulated.

Mike Flynn

25th Oct 2016, 16:10

Many thanks for the grab below WeeJeem taken during her Museum of Flight lecture in Seattle. She gazes up at the montage of press cuttings and I think she is saying
'these are some of the solo press reports I have had to correct.'

http://i.imgur.com/PHMktHW.jpg

Sam Rutherford

25th Oct 2016, 16:16

Posted by SWP some time ago (I think, apologies if not from him):

For the information of all on here, and a solid piece of evidence, I contacted the Telegraph to clarify the "quote" that was published in their newspaper as far back as October 2015.

Here is a copy of my email to them:

Quote:
Dear Sir, I am writing to ask for clarification regarding a quotation in a Telegraph article 1 October 2015.

The article, written by Nicola Harley, was:
Female pilot starts epic solo flight to copy Amy Johnson
Part way down the page we see a body of text in quotation marks and attributed to the pilot Tracey Curtis-Taylor.
"When I was younger I was told by the military that I couldn't join because I'm a woman, and now look at me - I'm flying to the other side of the world on my own."
Tracey Curtis-Taylor

The link to the article is here : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/aviatio ... hnson.html

I have now had a response from The Telegraph:

Quote:
Our Ref: 1046482

21 October 2016

Dear *******,

Thank you for your recent communication to The Telegraph.
Further to your enquiry, I have liaised with the journalist who has confirmed that they are the exact quotes.

Yours sincerely,

Katie Archer
Editorial Compliance Executive

Telegraph Media Group

So, either the journalist is lying to her compliance team, or...

deefer dog

25th Oct 2016, 16:25

Another one from the horses mouth:

“..so again my own background in sort of display flying, although I could never join the military by virtue of being a female - I was actually trained by military pilots in my formation, aerobatic and low level stuff - has all been done with military pilots……”

The gender now. How many actual FLYING displays have you performed Tracey, where did they take place, and have you ever held a Display Authorization issued by the UK CAA that permitted you to carry out anything OTHER than a "flypast?"

Perhaps you could also tell us precisely which airshows you have "managed" as is currently claimed (and captured) on your wiki bio?

There are thousands of quotes still out there on the internet that really need to be captured in case they mysteriously disappear or get altered. WeeJeem's advice is highly recommended.

clareprop

25th Oct 2016, 16:26

Just to add Sam's link directly.

Female pilot starts epic solo flight to copy Amy Johnson - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/aviation/11904577/Female-pilot-starts-epic-solo-flight-to-copy-Amy-Johnson.html)

Someone with a Facebook account might like to post that on her FB page as it rubbishes everything she's put in her 'statements'.

deefer dog

25th Oct 2016, 16:30

"Although I would have been perfect for the military..."

Sweetheart, they would have sussed you out in five minutes!

Mike Flynn

25th Oct 2016, 16:52

I have received an update on the LAA AGM from highly respected UK pilot Barry Tempest.

Well I proposed the motion to rescind and was pleased to do so. I was
surprised to see Tracey at the AGM but she gave a fairly impassioned
response which might have swayed a lot of those actually present. The proxy
votes ensured the motion was passed.

This is what I said in proposing the motion -

"Like many of their contemporaries who blazed the aviation trails, flying
with uncertainty into the unknown, courage was a foremost requisite, for the
aviation pioneering trail is uncompromising showing no mercy to the feckless
or faint-hearted. Amy Johnson and Lady Mary Heath possessed what it took to
become pioneers, deservedly earning recognition amongst aviation's
greatest."

In the post war years women like Sheila Scott and Judith Chisholm have
earned our admiration with their long distance flights. Finally, in more
recent times, Polly Vacher has achieved many awe inspiring trips around the
globe.

All these women flew solo, alone and with no chase aircraft or experienced
pilot with them.

Unlike Tracey Curtis-Taylor with her high powered PR team and sponsors.

The LAA awards committee were taken in by the hype and, in good faith,
awarded her the Bill Woodhams trophy for 2014. An award to recognise feats
of navigation. This was no feat of navigation worthy of recognition.

I propose that the award be rescinded and her name struck from the records
of the LAA.

I think this saga will continue.

pilotmike

25th Oct 2016, 16:58

She had tried to join the RAF in her youth but was refused on the basis she was a woman.
This demonstrates a lack of simple research being done, which would have saved a few people a bit of wasted time, not least herself.

In fact, nothing rings true about this, as the RAF would never have wasted time on any possible recruitment of a woman for a position which was closed to females. Or is this another sign of someone who thinks they can talk others round, to manipulate things to go exactly their way?
"Although I would have been perfect for the military, I was a bit of a maverick... maybe I wouldn't have been best suited to a strict and disciplined life."
Oh what contradiction! Oh, the mental torture of the dilemmas she must have wrestled with! Or does it just sound like sour grapes combined with a rather inflated self-opinion?

Stanwell

25th Oct 2016, 17:00

Tim Kelly..
As publicity manager for both Tracey and Artemis, must be smacking his forehead, Homer Simpson-style, and going "D'oh!", right now.
He might also be considering his future in the PR business.

Perhaps that would be in contrast to the shot taken in ExecuJet's Sydney hangar where he features behind TCT while she proudly shows off
the award from the AWPA for her "SOLO" accomplishment.
In that photo, he is displaying quite a smug and self-satisfied grin while proudly overseeing yet another "mistake" being made.

Tracey, being the modest and polite girl she is, was simply too kind to point out any error of course. (ahem!).

.

Gonzo

25th Oct 2016, 17:25

She has shared plenty of articles on Facebook with the word 'solo' in the headline.

Jonzarno

25th Oct 2016, 17:46

I've posted the picture of her doing a presentation in front of a huge slide proclaiming that she had been ALONE (my emphasis) in a c0ck-pit (her spelling mistake) twice now. In deference to the mods who have asked that we don't keep posting the same picture, I won't post it again; but if she does take legal action on the basis that she never claimed that the flights were solo, she might find that a bit hard to explain.

As regards the point made recently that WW2 veterans might just laugh at her for wearing RAF wings: of course THEY have every right to do that! (and I can well imagine how some of those I have flown with might!)

It's probably true to say that those of us who admire and respect what those veterans did (and, more importantly, their comrades who are no longer here to express an opinion), and either didn't earn the honour ourselves or earned it but never saw combat are more easily offended.

IMHO that doesn't make her action in wearing them any the less reprehensible.

Cows getting bigger

25th Oct 2016, 17:52

We would have had some sport. :)

KelvinD

25th Oct 2016, 17:56

Chris Scott & rog747: Many thanks for your responses. I must admit I had no idea who Sam Rutherford is.

rog747

25th Oct 2016, 18:09

KelvinD

Tracey Curtis-Taylor should watch this on BBC iplayer then think about what she has done

BBC Two - They Flew Alone (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0078lg6)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Flew_Alone

Cessnafly

25th Oct 2016, 18:31

and this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgKMm9Zw-LY

Chris Scott

25th Oct 2016, 19:02

Thanks for your earlier heads-up re the website developments, Cessnafly.

So, in a statement dated 11 June 2016 (http://www.birdinabiplane.com/statement%20-%20Jun%2016/), a year after Sam Rutherford first disclosed to PPRuNe (http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/558368-lady-who-flew-africa.html#post9012078) that most of her Cape Town-to-Goodwood sectors were not flown solo, and a few weeks after she and Mr Gritsch emerged from the wreckage in Arizona, Ms Curtis-Taylor wrote:
"I am deeply disappointed at the comments coming from a particular source making false assertions that my flight expeditions should have been executed as solo flights.
They were not."

The last sentence is open to interpretation, perhaps deliberately, but I infer that it means that neither were her flight expeditions solo, nor was there any requirement for them to be solo. On the latter point, she - as the instigator of these journeys - was free to decide whether she would attempt to fly them solo.

There seems to be ample evidence that after the Cape Town-to-Goodwood trip she claimed to have completed it solo. Before departing Farnborough for Australia in October 2015 she told the world by implication, if not specifically, that the trip would be flown solo to emulate Amy Johnson's. On her arrival in Darwin on 1st January, her website still included the following claim:
"...following in the slipstream of aviator Amy Johnson to recreate her pioneering solo flight from Great Britain to Australia."

No wonder that the world's media took her at her word and credited her with an all-solo journey. No wonder, in the light of some photographs of her in flight suggesting otherwise, that the curiosity of her fellow pilots, many of whom know only too well the difference between flying cross-country alone and flying with a co-pilot, led to many searching questions being asked and various sceptical comments being made.

But the lady appears to have been unaware or in denial of the controversy. Neither she nor her not-inconsiderable support team made any attempt to address it, or - most significantly - correct the misleading reports. She personally had many opportunities, including an interview with the BBC for Radio 4's flagship news and current-affairs programme, Today, on January 9. Following that interview the programme's website stated:
"British aviation adventurer, Tracey Curtis-Taylor has completed a 13,000 mile solo flight from Britain to Australia in a vintage open cockpit biplane. The 53 year-old set off from Hampshire in October. She has emulated the pioneering British aviator, Amy Johnson, who became the first woman to fly solo between the two countries in 1930."

As I commented on PPRuNe's AH&N forum (http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/558368-lady-who-flew-africa-6.html#post9233308) on January 9th:
"The problem for the team now is that the advantages of encouraging - or at least allowing - the media to report this as a solo flight might be more than outweighed by the negative effects of any [future] admission to the contrary. And the solo description lingers on."

So it is proving, unfortunately.

Ant T

25th Oct 2016, 19:29

Barry Tempest said.
In the post war years women like Sheila Scott and Judith Chisholm have
earned our admiration with their long distance flights. Finally, in more
recent times, Polly Vacher has achieved many awe inspiring trips around the
globe.

Polly Vacher's flights certainly got my admiration. She genuinely did circumnavigate solo eastwards around the world, and got a long way towards completing another circumnavigation via North and South Poles.

I was at Rothera on the Antarctic Peninsula when she passed through on the attempt to cross the continent via the Pole to McMurdo. No co-pilot or support team or fanfare. The flight was right on the limit of endurance for her Piper Dakota. She waited a number of days for a favourable forecast for that leg, and eventually set off towards the Pole, but sadly by the time she was reaching PNR it was clear that the hoped-for tailwinds had not quite been enough, and she made the brave decision to turn back. I seem to remember she landed back at Rothera after about 14 hours airborne.
She had planned her logistics well, with fuel depoted at McMurdo for the onward leg to New Zealand - I believe she generously donated that fuel to someone else who had not prepared so well and had ended up stranded at McMurdo in a light homebuilt(?)

While she did have sponsorship for her flights, she used them to raise awareness for Flying Scholarships for the Disabled, and I would say her MBE for services to charity was well-deserved.

Checklist Charlie

25th Oct 2016, 23:49

Oh boy, the supporters of Missy have got themselves all of a lather over on her farcebook page.

Sad reading really.

CC

9 lives

26th Oct 2016, 01:11

Oh boy, the supporters of Missy have got themselves all of a lather over on her farcebook page.

Wow, 'sure are right about that! One misled fellow writes:

Adventurers and Pioneers do not need to defend any of their actions to anybody for whatsoever reason.

Okay then....

I suppose that's why there's an "over there" in every room, so I can stay over here with pilots I respect.

Stanwell

26th Oct 2016, 02:07

Yes, it's funny isn't it?
The "Up-to-the-Minute" Farcebook crowd avidly 'following' Tracey's Fantastic Flying Fun Fair.

"Reality" .. what's that?

Thank goodness for PPRuNe.

Snyggapa

26th Oct 2016, 06:53

her own website front page billed it as "following in the slipstream of aviator Amy Johnson to recreate her pioneering solo flight from Great Britain to Australia"

https://web.archive.org/web/20160109124613/http://birdinabiplane.com/

The detail page does go on to state:

"Tracey was supported by a second aircraft; a Cessna Caravan provided by Phoenix Aviation of Nairobi,which carried a logistics manager, an engineer and a four-man film crew."

but doesn't mention anyone else in her plane.

or how about her own website again:

"In preparation for her solo flight across Africa,"

Tracey Curtis Taylor - Aviatrix, Adventurer, Inspirational Speaker (http://www.birdinabiplane.com/kiev/)

was that one a real solo, or a "re-creation" without the pesky solo part?

or

"The Cape Town to Goodwood flight took two months to complete with 38 stops. Tracey was supported by a second aircraft; a Cessna Caravan provided by Phoenix Aviation of Nairobi, which carried a logistics manager, an engineer and a four-man film crew.

In preparation for her solo flight across Africa, Tracey was invited to join a 3 man Russian crew ferry flying an old piston engined Antonov 2 biplane from Kiev to Cape Town"

https://web.archive.org/web/20150204202055/http://www.birdinabiplane.com/operations/

Personally I have no idea how the media got the impression that these would be solo flights..

Mike Flynn

26th Oct 2016, 07:19

Despite wooly statements on the Bird In A Biplane media page TCT has never explained why she could no longer fly solo after the first few legs.

As I have stated previously, I began with the intention of trying to fly the Africa flight solo (as the original descriptive materials from Nylon films show) but a combination of elements resulted in fundamental changes being made to the nature of that expedition.

That change of plan was never sent to any newspapers which continued to publish solo flight stories.

Now what "elements" could prevent such a highly trained 'aviatrix' flying alone?

"so again my own background in sort of display flying"......"I was actually trained by military pilots in my formation, aerobatic and low level stuff - has all been done with military pilots"

The documentary filming was part of the project the moment the Spirit the Spirit of Artemis left Cape Town.

Flight planning and logistics are the same with one or two in the aircraft.

The aircraft was covered in GoPro cameras.

Why would you want to contaminate the aircraft on a solo voyage with a second person who also happen to be a commercial pilot?

How did the outreach programme and charities stop TCT flying solo to "emulate" Mary Heath who did exactly that?