Australian pilots can work for US regionals.

[umop apisdn]

what has happened in the last 4 weeks to make everyone want to leave? The merger?
A few things. The merger might mean the end of our schedule dropping / rebuilding ability which is probably the best in the industry. That very thing is keeping a lot of people here.

ORD, DTW and DFW are due to be shrunk quite considerably. That will kill upgrade times in those bases and boot some people out. All three of them are also major hubs for major airlines, which all (at the moment) have faster upgrade times than Spirit. It's pretty easy for someone living in one of those bases to bounce.

The majority of people leaving are FOs which means they need to make new FOs before they can ramp up the upgrades. So as it stands, no one is upgrading quickly anymore unless they can convince new FOs to stay, they are not doing much to address this, which is making more FO's even more keen to leave.

[wlshwzd]

Spirit Airlines also looking for A320 Pilot - First officer (They will provide E3)
See the ad on Seek AU A320 First Officer - No type rating required

Spirit Airlines is the largest Ultra Low Cost Carrier in North America with a current fleet of more than 170 Airbus aircraft and planning to have 293 aircraft by 2027. Due to increased demand and growth, Spirit is actively recruiting Australian nationals under the E3 visa. This position with Spirit allows for you, your spouse and children under the age of 21 to obtain an E3 visa and migrate with you to the United States.


Spirit will cover the full cost of your FAA ATP conversion
Spirit will cover the cost of your A320 type
Spirit will provide the necessary documentation for your E3 visa

This is a full time position leading to an eventual command. Our most junior captain has been with Spirit for less than 4 years. If you are successful in the interview process and offered a contingent offer, the Spirit team will help arrange your visa, license conversion, FAA ATP written exam, FAA ATP, and A320 type ride.

We understand that moving to the US on the E3 visa is a big step. As such, Spirit will run a webinar using Microsoft Teams with our E3 specialist providing answers to the many questions ranging from remuneration, benefits, license conversion, visa processing, captain upgrade, followed by open Q & A.

[stillcallozhome]

Spirit Airlines also looking for A320 Pilot - First officer (They will provide E3)
See the ad on Seek AU A320 First Officer - No type rating required

Spirit Airlines is the largest Ultra Low Cost Carrier in North America with a current fleet of more than 170 Airbus aircraft and planning to have 293 aircraft by 2027. Due to increased demand and growth, Spirit is actively recruiting Australian nationals under the E3 visa. This position with Spirit allows for you, your spouse and children under the age of 21 to obtain an E3 visa and migrate with you to the United States.

Spirit will cover the full cost of your FAA ATP conversion
Spirit will cover the cost of your A320 type
Spirit will provide the necessary documentation for your E3 visa

This is a full time position leading to an eventual command. Our most junior captain has been with Spirit for less than 4 years. If you are successful in the interview process and offered a contingent offer, the Spirit team will help arrange your visa, license conversion, FAA ATP written exam, FAA ATP, and A320 type ride.

We understand that moving to the US on the E3 visa is a big step. As such, Spirit will run a webinar using Microsoft Teams with our E3 specialist providing answers to the many questions ranging from remuneration, benefits, license conversion, visa processing, captain upgrade, followed by open Q & A.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard the term ‘command’ used in the USA. Must have been written by an Aussie for Aussies. You’d get some funny looks if you were on an overnight and said, “I start command training soon”.

[bafanguy]

Spirit Airlines also looking for A320 Pilot - First officer (They will provide E3)
See the ad on Seek AU A320 First Officer - No type rating required

Spirit Airlines is the largest Ultra Low Cost Carrier in North America with a current fleet of more than 170 Airbus aircraft and planning to have 293 aircraft by 2027. Due to increased demand and growth, Spirit is actively recruiting Australian nationals under the E3 visa. This position with Spirit allows for you, your spouse and children under the age of 21 to obtain an E3 visa and migrate with you to the United States.

Spirit will cover the full cost of your FAA ATP conversion
Spirit will cover the cost of your A320 type
Spirit will provide the necessary documentation for your E3 visa

This is a full time position leading to an eventual command. Our most junior captain has been with Spirit for less than 4 years. If you are successful in the interview process and offered a contingent offer, the Spirit team will help arrange your visa, license conversion, FAA ATP written exam, FAA ATP, and A320 type ride.

We understand that moving to the US on the E3 visa is a big step. As such, Spirit will run a webinar using Microsoft Teams with our E3 specialist providing answers to the many questions ranging from remuneration, benefits, license conversion, visa processing, captain upgrade, followed by open Q & A.

Well...that's a pretty clear statement.

Here's the original ad:

https://www.seek.com.au/job/56726972?type=standout#sol=5920b240ce4285d7997ac86586b7b0cd2 9ca0967

[logansi]

If you meet the minimums (I don't) and don't have comittments in Australia you'd be stupid not to apply. 320 f/o with command in like 5 years.


Also random question: Is there anything that could stop the cargo carriers from offering positions that enable pilots to live in Australia by offering lines commencing in Australia or Asia?

[Icarus2001]

It also doesn’t help when the other premier carrier has a list as long as Santa’s of pilots they need to recall first.

First of all the list is not very long. Secondly, plenty who must be offered a chance to go back, will never go back for a variety of reasons including already being employed.

[umop apisdn]

If you meet the minimums (I don't) and don't have comittments in Australia you'd be stupid not to apply. 320 f/o with command in like 5 years.


Also random question: Is there anything that could stop the cargo carriers from offering positions that enable pilots to live in Australia by offering lines commencing in Australia or Asia?

Of course not. Up until recently FedEx had a base in Hong Kong. Although there are no Asian / Australian bases at Atlas, many Australian pilots have chosen Atlas because the potential to commute from Australia is much higher.

[dreamjob]

Can you get your FAA medical in Aus without holding a current CASA Class 1? Or without an FAA ATP/CPL?

[tossbag]

Yes and yes.

[Kenny]

Also random question: Is there anything that could stop the cargo carriers from offering positions that enable pilots to live in Australia by offering lines commencing in Australia or Asia?

The biggest problem with this is having to comply with Australia’s onerous and horrendously complicated employment laws, not to mention tax laws. Unless it makes financial sense to do so, no airline would choose to open an Australian domicile. Personally, I wouldn’t expect it to happen any time soon.

[bafanguy]

This Ravn ad appeared at the top of the stack today. Reading between the lines, it's aimed at E3 candidates who've been flying in a US Part 121 operation for the magical 1,000 hours that allow a captain spot. So, "...air carrier experience..." must be Part 121 ?

"...2500 hours in a fixed wing aircraft, of which 1000 hours will be multi-engine turbine flight time, and 1000 hours total flight time will be air carrier experience..."



https://jobs.flightglobal.com/job/1401542118/e3-visa-program-ravn-alaska-dash8-captains-type-and-non-type-rated/?TrackID=110&utm_source=rss&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=general

[t_cas]

Here’s an idea. Because CASA is all about safety an all. …. It would make sense to have the same Part 121 requirement here……

[DropYourSocks]

Here’s an idea. Because CASA is all about safety an all. …. It would make sense to have the same Part 121 requirement here……

Casa doesn't need that requirement because the time to wait for any sort of desirable command is about a decade. :E

[t_cas]

:D................................................

Although, you will find DEC into these jobs that are below acceptable conditions.... that is the point.

[havick]

:D................................................

Although, you will find DEC into these jobs that are below acceptable conditions.... that is the point.

You do realize that even the regional pilots in the US are banking more than most Aussie mainline pilots?

[TinFoilhat2]

You do realize that even the regional pilots in the US are banking more than most Aussie mainline pilots?

The LCC like Spirit, JetBlue, Frontier etc most definitely are banking more than most Aussie mainline, airline salaries in Australia considering cost of living here are basically for a better word..absolute CR@P!

[dr dre]

You do realize that even the regional pilots in the US are banking more than most Aussie mainline pilots?

US 10 year Regional Captain at PSA (https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/regional/psa_airlines) (one that is taking Aussies according to previous posts) on about $140k AUD. Some bonuses but the biggest ones are if flow through to AA.

Mainline Oz? Well dependent on carrier and fleet but with 10 years service you’d be making more than that.

[tossbag]

Although, you will find DEC into these jobs that are below acceptable conditions.... that is the point.

The ignorance, arrogance and stupidity of Australian, skygod pilots. When was your last improvement of conditions?

How long does it take to command in a jet in Australia/USA?

What is the per hour rate at Qantas, Virgin, Spirit, AA, UAL, Delta, what's your min guarantee?

What do your reserve/rostering rules look like? Can you swap trips? What are the rules surrounding roster building?

What does your super/401k look like after 10/20/30 years? Can you retire at 50/55/60 in Aus v USA?

What did the top FedEx/UPS Captain/FO earn last year, 2 years ago, 5 years ago?

Can you commute? Is your commuting company supported? Do you have KCM in Aus?

What does your seat lock look like? What are the rules surrounding seniority and seat lock look like?

And more importantly, do you own your RV6/7/8/9/10/14 prior to retirement?

[-41]

US 10 year Regional Captain at PSA (https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/regional/psa_airlines) (one that is taking Aussies according to previous posts) on about $140k AUD. Some bonuses but the biggest ones are if flow through to AA.

Mainline Oz? Well dependent on carrier and fleet but with 10 years service you’d be making more than that.

Sadly No.

a 737 VA as a 10 even 15 +yr FO does not have that high a base -Prior to Bain yes, circa base $157K year 3 FO. Let alone makeup the last 2 years of lost income. Weren't US pilots paid continuously during Covid.
​​​​​​$130,065 VA 55 hrs MCG - $175.50 hr productivity

[umop apisdn]

The ignorance, arrogance and stupidity of Australian, skygod pilots. When was your last improvement of conditions?

How long does it take to command in a jet in Australia/USA?

What is the per hour rate at Qantas, Virgin, Spirit, AA, UAL, Delta, what's your min guarantee?

What do your reserve/rostering rules look like? Can you swap trips? What are the rules surrounding roster building?

What does your super/401k look like after 10/20/30 years? Can you retire at 50/55/60 in Aus v USA?

What did the top FedEx/UPS Captain/FO earn last year, 2 years ago, 5 years ago?

Can you commute? Is your commuting company supported? Do you have KCM in Aus?

What does your seat lock look like? What are the rules surrounding seniority and seat lock look like?

And more importantly, do you own your RV6/7/8/9/10/14 prior to retirement?

Good questions, but you forgot the most important one...

What does your seniority do for you in reverse? Last I heard A380 capt was the most senior position in Aus, yet they got booted out first when the **** hit the fan...

[logansi]

The ignorance, arrogance and stupidity of Australian, skygod pilots. When was your last improvement of conditions?

How long does it take to command in a jet in Australia/USA?

What is the per hour rate at Qantas, Virgin, Spirit, AA, UAL, Delta, what's your min guarantee?

What do your reserve/rostering rules look like? Can you swap trips? What are the rules surrounding roster building?

What does your super/401k look like after 10/20/30 years? Can you retire at 50/55/60 in Aus v USA?

What did the top FedEx/UPS Captain/FO earn last year, 2 years ago, 5 years ago?

Can you commute? Is your commuting company supported? Do you have KCM in Aus?

What does your seat lock look like? What are the rules surrounding seniority and seat lock look like?

And more importantly, do you own your RV6/7/8/9/10/14 prior to retirement?

More importantly, why does anyone care, if you are happy to go to America be it for the short term or the long term - it's good for everyone. It's another pathway people can take - right now there are more options (airlines) in America than airlines in Australia. For those who don't want to take it, it means fewer people fighting for the same job here in Australia.

[big buddah]

What University or organisation is verify that your aviation qualifications are equivalent to a degree or there of?

[bront]

What University or organisation is verify that your aviation qualifications are equivalent to a degree or there of?

I used 2 different companies, 1 cheap and 1 expensive as I didn't want to wait and find out one was dodgy. Turned out that they were both very similar.

302-466-3063 (tel:(703)%20880-4825)
Education Evaluation Experts of America, Inc.
831 N Tatnall Street, Suite M #126
Wilmington, DE 19801
[email protected]

and

Morningside Evaluations

450 Seventh Avenue, Suite 804, New York, NY 10123 |

P: (212) 904-1015 | [email protected]

[DUXNUTZ]

The ignorance, arrogance and stupidity of Australian, skygod pilots. When was your last improvement of conditions?

How long does it take to command in a jet in Australia/USA?

What is the per hour rate at Qantas, Virgin, Spirit, AA, UAL, Delta, what's your min guarantee?

What do your reserve/rostering rules look like? Can you swap trips? What are the rules surrounding roster building?

What does your super/401k look like after 10/20/30 years? Can you retire at 50/55/60 in Aus v USA?

What did the top FedEx/UPS Captain/FO earn last year, 2 years ago, 5 years ago?

Can you commute? Is your commuting company supported? Do you have KCM in Aus?

What does your seat lock look like? What are the rules surrounding seniority and seat lock look like?

And more importantly, do you own your RV6/7/8/9/10/14 prior to retirement?

Realizing one can use seniority to get a better schedule is like a light bulb moment. I wish I’d taken any job in the States years before I did.

[Another Pilot]

Hi Guys....

Has anyone appeared for Piedmont or Gojet Interview?

Insights would be helpful... questions? format?

TIA guys

[Kenny]

US 10 year Regional Captain at PSA (https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/regional/psa_airlines) (one that is taking Aussies according to previous posts) on about $140k AUD. Some bonuses but the biggest ones are if flow through to AA.

Mainline Oz? Well dependent on carrier and fleet but with 10 years service you’d be making more than that.

The flaw in this logic and it’s one that most make, is that you can’t compare the $ to $ amounts you’re paid for a years work. It’s, as the Yanks would say, apples to oranges. You need to consider not only the tax you pay but what you’re left with in you pocket after any deductions of your gross pay and more importantly, what it will buy you.

I used to chuckle when Aussies would bang on about how well paid they were compared to Americans. My reply “well you need to be because you couldn’t afford to live here, otherwise” generally jammed a cog in their heads.

[dr dre]

I used to chuckle when Aussies would bang on about how well paid they were compared to Americans. My reply “well you need to be because you couldn’t afford to live here, otherwise” generally jammed a cog in their heads.

Numbeo has a good comparison on cost of living and wages, or local purchasing power. Sydney is more affordable than NYC or LA, but more expensive than a Dallas Texas or Orlando Florida. However Brisbane and Perth are comparable or better off than somewhere like Dallas, especially cheaper in rental costs.

I’m sure living in outer urban and regional areas of each country would bring living costs down even more.

[Kenny]

Numbeo has a good comparison on cost of living and wages, or local purchasing power. Sydney is more affordable than NYC or LA, but more expensive than a Dallas Texas or Orlando Florida. However Brisbane and Perth are comparable or better off than somewhere like Dallas, especially cheaper in rental costs.

I’m sure living in outer urban and regional areas of each country would bring living costs down even more.

Then, as someone who’s lived in most of those cities I’d say they’ve got their numbers wrong. You might be able to claim that NYC property is equivalent to Sydney but you can’t compare the taxes or the cost of living.

I’ve paid taxes and lived in both countries and there’s a huge difference between the cost of living in the US to Oz. Admittedly, this was before covid and the inflation most are now having to deal with. When I tell people here that my missus and I paid AU$ 500k in almost 6 years, on taxes and rent, they are speechless.

[Abroad145]

Hi Guys....

Has anyone appeared for Piedmont or Gojet Interview?

Insights would be helpful... questions? format?

TIA guys
I used Aviationinterviews for my interview prep.
​​​You may need to enter a US address to pay for the subscription.

[Another Pilot]

I used Aviationinterviews for my interview prep.
​​​You may need to enter a US address to pay for the subscription.

Thanks mate.... much appreciated

[tossbag]

I used 2 different companies, 1 cheap and 1 expensive as I didn't want to wait and find out one was dodgy. Turned out that they were both very similar.

302-466-3063 (tel:(703)%20880-4825)
Education Evaluation Experts of America, Inc.
831 N Tatnall Street, Suite M #126
Wilmington, DE 19801
[email protected]

and

Morningside Evaluations

450 Seventh Avenue, Suite 804, New York, NY 10123 |

P: (212) 904-1015 | [email protected]

big buddah, this is absolutely ridiculous. YOU DONOT HAVE TO DO THIS. Go to a consulate that does not give you are a hard time. There are hundreds of E3 pilots that will tell you, avoid the consulates that want to see what bront has stupidly paid through the nose for.

[big buddah]

big buddah, this is absolutely ridiculous. YOU DONOT HAVE TO DO THIS. Go to a consulate that does not give you are a hard time. There are hundreds of E3 pilots that will tell you, avoid the consulates that want to see what bront has stupidly paid through the nose for.

Appreciate but the E3 wasn’t my issue. Was really after someone who could give an expert opinion on my aviation qualifications and experience, someone mentioned that they were getting opinions that their qualifications were equal to a degree or higher.

[tossbag]

Have you got a current IPC? Have you got 1500 hours total time? 25 hours night? 100 Multi?

I know a dude with 1600 hours total, no degree, got the E3 issued.

[bafanguy]

This just popped up. Not sure how many SAAB 340-rated pilots are floating around:

"Visa Sponsor: E3 and H1B visas are available from the airline."


https://www.latestpilotjobs.com/jobs/view/id/2145.html

[Colonel_Klink]

Any word on the Spirit info session that was run today?

[ThunderstormFactory]

In person interviews in Australia within the month with offers to be given before the team heads back to the states.

[bafanguy]

In person interviews in Australia within the month with offers to be given before the team heads back to the states.

WOW !! They actually said that ?

[ThunderstormFactory]

Yes but it’s hinging on whether they get enough interest to make it worth it.

[Bluesideup2022]

Hello all

I have been offered jobs with 3 of the airlines. I had to stop flying a while ago to raise my 2 girls by myself but had no problems with interviews etc.
E3 visas. WTF we in Australia don't usually have 4 year degree's. is there anything actully written about the 3 years experience counts for 1 year. i gave heard some horror stories over not having the 4 year degree when it comes to the US consulate.

I am getting ready for the e# Visa application.
What is going on with that 4 year degree rule? Is there anything written stating we don't need it????
I have heard some horror stories,.

Advice anyone?

[havick]

Hello all

I have been offered jobs with 3 of the airlines. I had to stop flying a while ago to raise my 2 girls by myself but had no problems with interviews etc.
E3 visas. WTF we in Australia don't usually have 4 year degree's. is there anything actully written about the 3 years experience counts for 1 year. i gave heard some horror stories over not having the 4 year degree when it comes to the US consulate.

I am getting ready for the e# Visa application.
What is going on with that 4 year degree rule? Is there anything written stating we don't need it????
I have heard some horror stories,.

Advice anyone?

Scroll up a few pages. This has been done to death. Just pick the right consulate to goto.

[dreamjob]

Is it true Spirit won't cover the ATP costs? Contrary to what the Seek ad says?

[bafanguy]

Is it true Spirit won't cover the ATP costs? Contrary to what the Seek ad says?

I'm not on FaceBook so I can't check but several airlines have pilot-recruiting FaceBook pages where questions get answered. Might see if Spirit has one and ask. And LinkedIn...I think Spirit put out some info there about E3s.

[Captain.Crunch]

Is it true Spirit won't cover the ATP costs? Contrary to what the Seek ad says?

They will not cover the cost of the ATP-CTP course, approx $3500 USD.

They will cover the rest.

[dreamjob]

Ok thanks CC.

Spirit will cover the full cost of your FAA ATP conversion .... False advertising!! :}

[bafanguy]

Silver Airways is now trolling for E3s. But, FAA CPL, MEL, IR appears to be required. No mention of how much Silver will do toward the ATP. This will probably cut down on the number of Aussies applying ? This listed under "minimum requirements":

FAA Commercial Pilot Certificate - Multi-engine, Land, Instrument Ratings

https://workforcenow.adp.com/mascsr/default/mdf/recruitment/recruitment.html?cid=a7d56a97-1145-4316-adc1-f42714d86a2c&ccId=19000101_000001&jobId=436929&lang=en_US&source=silverwebsite


https://www.silverairways.com/careers?source=SkyJobs.com

[tossbag]

Given that 99.9% percent of Australians on E3's that hold an FAA ATP would be flying jets, I doubt they would leave their current jobs for a paycut to fly a turboprop. My prediction, Silver will get ZERO applications from E3's. Real dip****tery considering that all the regionals are paying for the ATP.

[Another Pilot]

Given that 99.9% percent of Australians on E3's that hold an FAA ATP would be flying jets, I doubt they would leave their current jobs for a paycut to fly a turboprop. My prediction, Silver will get ZERO applications from E3's. Real dip****tery considering that all the regionals are paying for the ATP.


in saying that most turbo prop operators aren’t paying for ATP
- Silver Airways as mentioned above
- Connect Airways (WMA)
- Ravn Alaska

To name a few …. I am sure there are few others that we don’t know of as of now.


*** Question for regional guys who are already flying in US ***

Also with regionals with $50 an hour at 75 hours min pay guarantee makes you $3750 a month… take home after tax and insurance is $2600 approx.

Is this survivable salary? Are people struggling with rising cost of living as the salaries aren’t going up at regionals for now?

[havoste]

in saying that most turbo prop operators aren’t paying for ATP
- Silver Airways as mentioned above
- Connect Airways (WMA)
- Ravn Alaska

To name a few …. I am sure there are few others that we don’t know of as of now.


*** Question for regional guys who are already flying in US ***

Also with regionals with $50 an hour at 75 hours min pay guarantee makes you $3750 a month… take home after tax and insurance is $2600 approx.

Is this survivable salary? Are people struggling with rising cost of living as the salaries aren’t going up at regionals for now?

Most regionals are paying a bonus in the first year, eg. Gojet is 20k paid monthly no strings attached. During training and for an extra month afterwards hotel accom is covered, which all helps in the first year. Not sure exact details of PSA/Skywest/C5 etc. Once flying realistically you're going to be crediting more than min guarantee (Typical credit window for lineholders is over 85 hours) and per diems do help too, typically $4-800/month. I think as a rule of thumb most use 1000xmin guarantee.
Commuting is very easy here too so you could avoid the most expensive places.
Year 2-3 you're already looking at an upgrade or moving onto a LCC etc. with a large bump in hourly.

[bafanguy]

My prediction, Silver will get ZERO applications from E3's.

You're probably correct about that.

But I'm a little puzzled by the requirement for FAA CPL. They say in the ad that the company provides the ATP-CTP course and the rest of the FAA ATP is taken care of during the training process. Many Aussies came to the regionals right off the boat with no FAA tickets so why wouldn't Silver do it the same way if they're seeking E3 candidates ? The process works well and has a long track record with the FAA.

"Company-paid ATP/CTP Course, iPad, Known Crew Member, and parking in-base"

You guys need to launch the Test Aussie to contact Silver and ask questions.

[umop apisdn]

Commuting is very easy here too so you could avoid the most expensive places.


Commuting can be pretty soul crushing though. Nothing worse than getting back from a trip and not being actually home. Unless you have a really good reason to do it, I'd say you'd quickly find it's not worth it.

[Abroad145]

in saying that most turbo prop operators aren’t paying for ATP
- Silver Airways as mentioned above
- Connect Airways (WMA)
- Ravn Alaska

To name a few …. I am sure there are few others that we don’t know of as of now.


*** Question for regional guys who are already flying in US ***

Also with regionals with $50 an hour at 75 hours min pay guarantee makes you $3750 a month… take home after tax and insurance is $2600 approx.

Is this survivable salary? Are people struggling with rising cost of living as the salaries aren’t going up at regionals for now?
First-year regional salary is always a challenge in the US even for local guys. When I started it was $38 per hour.
Most regionals have a signing bonus. Probably factor that into your budget as well.
Allow two years for captain upgrade.
You need to bring enough money with you from Australia maybe 20-30K AU to cover lean times and to set yourself up.
You will need a car eventually.
2nd year FO life gets easier, 75 hours is a min guarantee. Usually, there is the opportunity to make more money on overtime 200% or 300% rates depending on how hard you want to work.
In my first year, I usually would bid for lines that credited 90 hours. It was fatiguing though.

[Another Pilot]

You guys need to launch the Test Aussie to contact Silver and ask questions.[/QUOTE]



Test Aussies have already been launched… I know couple of guys with 1500 hrs who applied to Silver almost a month ago and have sent follow up emails.

No acknowledgement or response from them so far… looks like they are collecting resumes and saving them for a rainy day!

[Another Pilot]

First-year regional salary is always a challenge in the US even for local guys. When I started it was $38 per hour.
Most regionals have a signing bonus. Probably factor that into your budget as well.
Allow two years for captain upgrade.
You need to bring enough money with you from Australia maybe 20-30K AU to cover lean times and to set yourself up.
You will need a car eventually.
2nd year FO life gets easier, 75 hours is a min guarantee. Usually, there is the opportunity to make more money on overtime 200% or 300% rates depending on how hard you want to work.
In my first year, I usually would bid for lines that credited 90 hours. It was fatiguing though.



$20k -$30k is a fair bit of money to have… don’t think a lot people might have that sort of cash lying around unless they pretty much sell their stuff here and be sure of making it through type and line training.

Also post Covid the amount of sign on bonuses have reduced significantly. I remember C5 and some others offering bonuses upto $60k spread over 2-3 years.

[Abroad145]

I sold my "pride and joy" Euro-trash GTI in Australia to afford to come over here. I don't regret it. :)

[DropYourSocks]

A few musings for all you potential new guys.

Your sign-on bonuses are taxable. You're going to lose ~30% of it. But you don't necessarily have to pay the tax on it straight away. When I started at CommutAir, they had a $22k signing bonus, contingent on you staying 2 years. Depending on your contract, you don't have to pay tax on it until that money is actually yours, ie after 2 years. YMMV.

Commuting long term blows. Being that more than likely none of us has an attachment to any particular part of the US (extended family etc), you're going to want to live in base. What this realistically means is, anywhere within a 2 hour drive of your base. For example, there are some very cheap areas within 2 hours of Newark, like Allentown PA. When you're only doing this drive 4 times a month, it's very manageable. This applies more or less to every HCoL area that airlines tend to have bases at.

When I first came to the US, pay was $38/hr. It sucked. I have friends who bought their wife and children with them too, on just that one income. It sucked for them too, but they survived. The regionals are significantly more comfortable now that they're all $50+ now. It doesn't sound like a huge difference, but it is. After 2 years, when you're either a regional captain or LCC FO, the QoL you will have here easily beats out what's achievable at Virgin or Jetstar.

The US really is all about what you can make of it. For those of you still on the fence, the water is very warm, and it's getting warmer by the month. Good luck y'all.

[Kenny]

To add onto what Drop said above, commuting is an easy option if you live within 1.5 hours flight time AND you have at least 4 flights a day AND it’s only a one-leg commute AND it’s on an RJ (JS priority will go to the hoards of mainline guys also trying to commute). Otherwise a 1.5 hour drive is about as far as I’d live away from base. I just swapped a 1:15 drive to ORD, to a one leg commute to DEN and it sucks. But I’m locked into it for another 18 months.

[Colonel_Klink]

After 2 years, when you're either a regional captain or LCC FO, the QoL you will have here easily beats out what's achievable at Virgin or Jetstar.


Are you able to expand a little more on this? As someone who works for VA and is considering the move, I am genuinely interested in any further details.

Thanks!

[DropYourSocks]

Are you able to expand a little more on this? As someone who works for VA and is considering the move, I am genuinely interested in any further details.

Thanks!

Sure,

CommutAir for example pays $90/hr now for captains. So call the yearly salary $90k give or take for easy numbers. But the money isn't really where the QoL is at. It's in your ability to bid your schedule. If you want overnights somewhere, want 10 days off in a row, only want to do morning flying, stack all your flying into big days but have 18 days off... whatever it is, if your seniority allows it you can bid for it.

I flew with an Orlando based Frontier captain back in February. Something he likes to do is bid for entire weeks off at a time, then sits in Philly and waits for overtime to drop. He claimed he grossed $400k last year. His story, so naturally I can't verify it, but it's not outside the realm of possibility. He's also single, obviously this may not work for everyone.

My point is, if you want to work more and clean up, you can. You want to cram all your flying into as few days as possible and have 18 off, you can. It's entirely dependent on your seniority though, and what I've described are obviously towards the top end of QoL.

Lastly, I believe the current opportunities aren't the ceiling for E3s. As an example, CommutAir is sponsoring it's Aussie captains on green cards. There are T&C's, which I'm not privy too, but they are allowing the Aussies to now opt into the Aviate flow for United. More or less wait until you get your GC then flow to UA. I also wouldn't be surprised to see the likes of Southwest starting their own program. Since the likes of Spirit, Frontier and Atlas have legitimized E3s, I don't think other carriers picking it up is that far of a stretch.

[tossbag]

I know couple of guys with 1500 hrs who applied to Silver almost a month ago and have sent follow up emails.

That, in of itself says a lot. If you qualify for Silver you qualify for the other regionals, if they want to play those sorts of games, ditch them. Applications to most of the regionals will see a reply email in days.

[Another Pilot]

That, in of itself says a lot. If you qualify for Silver you qualify for the other regionals, if they want to play those sorts of games, ditch them. Applications to most of the regionals will see a reply email in days.


You are absolutely right…. Their rational is since very few will apply for this gig their application would have less competition compared to regionals.

As an example when Avelo (not a regional) opened their E3… they received 900+ applications from Aussi’s and only 24 got offered a spot… all with type and time on CASA.

Big question is has anyone actually done any interviews with Breeze apart from Video questions recoding one… like online HR/Tech interview that likes of C5, PSA are conducting?

[Kenny]

Are you able to expand a little more on this? As someone who works for VA and is considering the move, I am genuinely interested in any further details.

Thanks!

As someone who spent just under 6 years at VA, my worst day here is still a million times better than my best day at VA. Better flying, not getting screamed at in the sim (yes it actually happened and I mean spit flying, vein throbbing, screamed at), better pay, better QOL, better work conditions. I could go on but you get the picture. I miss my Bali overnights but Paris, Milan and Rome make up for it. Best move I made, was leaving VA and moving back to the US. I do miss a lot of the people I worked with though but the yanks are a good bunch and some even understand and appreciate sarcasm.

[Space Yak]

Sure,

CommutAir for example pays $90/hr now for captains. So call the yearly salary $90k give or take for easy numbers.

Why are the hourly rates so low? Captains at VA are on $270 and FO’s $175. Even with the exchange rate, the gap is significant. $90k US is only around $130k AU. What am I missing?

[Captain.Crunch]

Why are the hourly rates so low? Captains at VA are on $270 and FO’s $175. Even with the exchange rate, the gap is significant. $90k US is only around $130k AU. What am I missing?

Yak, the rates that you are talking about are for a regional captain flying a CRJ700/900 or E175 for example. The Australian equivalent would be Qlink or Rex (Saab 340), so the money is already better or comparable while gaining jet experience. But you pay less tax and lower cost of living in the US, so you're ahead.

Pilots at the low cost carriers (Spirit, Frontier, Avelo, etc) on A320s and B737s make a lot more.

For example an FO at Frontier makes approx between $115,000 USD to $174,000 USD (12 years with the airline), but can expect to upgrade at year 3 or 4 with Captain pay starting at $221,000 USD to $262,000 USD (12 years with the airline). So looking at a maximum earning potential close to $400,000 AUD and the airline also will contribute 15% into your 401k per year on top.

[DUXNUTZ]

Why are the hourly rates so low? Captains at VA are on $270 and FO’s $175. Even with the exchange rate, the gap is significant. $90k US is only around $130k AU. What am I missing?

Also unlike many Aussie carriers, there’s a bunch of soft time (trip rigs, dropping schedule and picking up trips at 200% etc) that one can do to make significantly more money.

[DUXNUTZ]

To add onto what Drop said above, commuting is an easy option if you live within 1.5 hours flight time AND you have at least 4 flights a day AND it’s only a one-leg commute AND it’s on an RJ (JS priority will go to the hoards of mainline guys also trying to commute). Otherwise a 1.5 hour drive is about as far as I’d live away from base. I just swapped a 1:15 drive to ORD, to a one leg commute to DEN and it sucks. But I’m locked into it for another 18 months.

Whinging b@stard. Drown ya sorrows in some spotted cow for me!

[bafanguy]

That, in of itself says a lot. If you qualify for Silver you qualify for the other regionals, if they want to play those sorts of games, ditch them.

tossbag,

Certainly agree with that. If that's what Silver is doing, it won't take long for the truth to come out and no Aussies will bother with them.

On the other hand, taking the "shotgun" approach and applying to every possible place can't hurt. All you have to do is tolerate the tedium of yet another application form.

[tossbag]

bafan, the strikerate is literally so good at the other regionals that you don't need to scattergun. What's really refreshing about the US interview and hiring is there's a heavy emphasis on the 'no d!ckhead' policy. What gets mentioned quite a lot from the interviewer 'I make a judgement based on whether I can do a 4 day trip with you and have a good time while getting the job done'

Apart from the fact Australia is an aviation backwater with an increasingly ridiculous ruleset and pilots accepting lower pay while the rest of the world recognises a looming shortage.

[Kenny]

Whinging b@stard. Drown ya sorrows in some spotted cow for me!
Lol. First world problems mate. Hoping to be back out your way soon.

[Colonel_Klink]

DropYourSocks and Kenny - thanks 👍

[umop apisdn]

As an example at Sprit, our schedule flexibility is some of the best in the industry. I gave my entire schedule back to the company because I didn't want to work for May.

If I did that and put myself on the premium call list all month (perk of living in base is that you can take these calls at short notice) I'd be making easily 20k for the month.

​

[Thumb War]

As an example at Sprit, our schedule flexibility is some of the best in the industry. I gave my entire schedule back to the company because I didn't want to work for May.

If I did that and put myself on the premium call list all month (perk of living in base is that you can take these calls at short notice) I'd be making easily 20k for the month.

​

Interesting info. How many years have you been with Spirit?

[DropYourSocks]

Interesting info. How many years have you been with Spirit?

Not the OP, but that'd have to be second year pay, crediting around 160 hours (easily achievable).

[minger]

A few weeks ago I did a teams interview and was given a conditional job offer at the end.

I am in the process of organising my E3 Visa through the consulate and getting other formalities organised here before I head over.

I am curious to know how people from Aus. find housing / apartments / rentals ? Is it similar to Australia where you apply through a real estate agent?

[Kenny]

A few weeks ago I did a teams interview and was given a conditional job offer at the end.

I am in the process of organising my E3 Visa through the consulate and getting other formalities organised here before I head over.

I am curious to know how people from Aus. find housing / apartments / rentals ? Is it similar to Australia where you apply through a real estate agent?

There’s an app for that……Zillow, Redfin and Rent.com are a good place to start.

[Dookie on Drums]

Some good info here from guys who have helped me. I've done the US thing twice. It wasn't for me. All that glitters isn't gold.
Having said that, it's a great opportunity for some. Just wasn't for me. The great thing is you can check it out and judge for yourself.

[Brakerider]

Some good info here from guys who have helped me. I've done the US thing twice. It wasn't for me. All that glitters isn't gold.
Having said that, it's a great opportunity for some. Just wasn't for me. The great thing is you can check it out and judge for yourself.

would you mind sharing some negatives or things you didn’t enjoy? As you said, this forum makes it out all rosy..

[DropYourSocks]

would you mind sharing some negatives or things you didn’t enjoy? As you said, this forum makes it out all rosy..

Of course there are negatives, here are some...

If you have no seniority, your schedule will suck. You'll be working reserve, weekends, red-eyes, what-have-you. But, it gets better with time.

First year pay sucks, particularly at the ULCC level. Spirit it $60/hr, and Frontier is $75/hr. Second year pay at both is roughly $120/hr, much better. There are no bonds for type ratings here, so this is you more or less covering the cost of your type rating. This practice is standard at more or less every airline/cargo here, it just varies by how much.

You can't go straight to a command. Doesn't matter that you were a hot shot captain with 3 orbital re-entries. You have to start as an FO, and do your 1000hrs 121. That's a pretty big chunk of humble pie for some, particularly if you're going to the regionals first, instead of Atlas, Spirit or Frontier.

You will forever get, "OMG I love your accent", quickly followed by a terrible impression of you which for some reason always sounds British. Learn to love it.

And lastly, my biggest pet peeves here. It doesn't matter where you go, but the supermarket bbq chickens here are just not the same as you get from Coles or Woolies.

Most of the downsides of the US are fixed with time and seniority. The rosey lifestyles and cash aren't something you get from the start, because you need that seniority to manipulate your schedule. The rest really is what you make of it. Some people will never like the US, and that's ok too.

[bafanguy]

I am curious to know how people from Aus. find housing / apartments / rentals ? Is it similar to Australia where you apply through a real estate agent?

In addition to what Kenny said, if you see an apartment complex in an area you'd like to live, go to the management office and there'll be someone who can rent you one.

[umop apisdn]

Interesting info. How many years have you been with Spirit?

About 2.5 years now.


​​​​

[umop apisdn]

would you mind sharing some negatives or things you didn’t enjoy? As you said, this forum makes it out all rosy..

I think the US is probably objectively the greatest place in the world to be a pilot.

The trade off is that you have to live in the US. The individualism really starts to get tiresome.

[Kenny]

would you mind sharing some negatives or things you didn’t enjoy? As you said, this forum makes it out all rosy..

I’d suggest then you go back and read the posts again. It’s been said countless times, that it’s not for everyone and for a myriad of reasons, not least of which is that you’ll be far away from friends, family and home. If you can honestly look in the mirror and be sure you’ll come with an open mind, I think the pros outweigh the cons. If you come with the expectation that everything will be what you’re used to, you’ll simply fall into the trap of being a nasally Oztranaught, who complains about how “that’s not what we do in Australia” and to be honest, I wouldn’t put up with that anymore than I know the locals will.

50 years I’ve moved around this planet, chasing perfection and all I can say is that it simply doesn’t exist. You love flying. It’s the career that you want but it’s a minefield in Oz. Oz is home. It’s where your nearest and dearest are but the options for a flying career are limited in comparison to the US. See what I mean? The good thing with the E3 option, is that it’s not permanent. Look at it as an adventure you can try and leave behind at some point, if you want.

[Kenny]

And lastly, my biggest pet peeves here. It doesn't matter where you go, but the supermarket bbq chickens here are just not the same as you get from Coles or Woolies.


Lol. My biggest pet peeves have always been the horrible bread and terrible bacon. Oh and Meat pies with tomato sauce, it’s the greatest gift to mankind. How they’ve not traversed the pacific, is beyond me. I do need to try the place in Chicago and see if they’re up to snuff.

[havick]

Lol. My biggest pet peeves have always been the horrible bread and terrible bacon. Oh and Meat pies with tomato sauce, it’s the greatest gift to mankind. How they’ve not traversed the pacific, is beyond me. I do need to try the place in Chicago and see if they’re up to snuff.

and sausage rolls.

[Kenny]

and sausage rolls.

Sh!t, forgot about that. Yep, those too. Just got a big shipment of bacon and sangas from the British food place in PA, waiting for me at home. If you don’t hear from me for a while, it’s because I’ve gorged myself and I’m in a meat coma.

[DUXNUTZ]

Even here in the middle of the ocean our Costco has pretty good Canadian bacon and Japanese white bread that tastes like home.

[bafanguy]

Appears GoJet has added a section to their pilot-recruiting website that advertises for E3 candidates. It doesn't give a lot of specifics but I think it's a new section on the page. Scroll down the page:

https://www.gojetairlines.com/pilots

[Captn Rex Havack]

Wow, with 75 hrs min guarantee and perdiems, a wordly $66,000 AUD per year. Rock on

[Climb150]

Wow, with 75 hrs min guarantee and perdiems, a wordly $66,000 AUD per year. Rock on

But you don't need to be an Oztronaut to get a job there.

[DropYourSocks]

Wow, with 75 hrs min guarantee and perdiems, a wordly $66,000 AUD per year. Rock on

I'd take $66k AUD in the US over $120K AUD in Aus any day of the week. Plus the 18 days off a month. Plus the United travel benefits. Plus the opportunity to actually advance your career. Plus the chance to fly to more than just 6 capital cities for the rest of your life. And that's just in your first year.

[Captn Rex Havack]

Good onya socksie - keep that race to the bottom alive mate. Few more guys like you and
we might sneak it under $50k.

[Kenny]

Good onya socksie - keep that race to the bottom alive mate. Few more guys like you and
we might sneak it under $50k.

You either didn’t understand or read his reply correctly, did you? Or any of the posts here….there’s always one.

Oh and it’s “per diem”. Singular, not plural.

[DropYourSocks]

Good onya socksie - keep that race to the bottom alive mate. Few more guys like you and
we might sneak it under $50k.

It's easy to sling mud. What's harder is trying to make a positive change to the career path available to Australian pilots. I'd like to think that not only myself, but the great many others here in the US have made a positive impact. What's more is that with every success we have in the US, it puts pressure on the operators at home to lift their game.

The day is coming where a career destination airline is going to land in Sydney and run roadshows on Qantas' door step. Whoever does it first also won't be the last. When that day comes, every carrier in Aus will finally have to compete on a global market for Australian pilots.

If you choose to stay in Aus, that's cool. But I hope the strides we are making will help lead to you also having a more rewarding career at home too.

[Captn Rex Havack]

Alright Kenny - maybe he didn't say he'd happily take $66k AUD - but I do think the tone of what he said tended to suggest that. He did say he and others are making positive strides in the US. How?
How is going to the US and taking **** money a positive stride? It is allowing the US airlines to find guys accepting of poor remuneration. $66k is garbage money end of story.

Socksie spare me the sob story about your positive impact. You have gone to the US and made a positive impact????????? Really??? - read these forums mate - all over
it in the Oz sections are guys quite correctly complaining about foreigners being granted 457 visas coming into Oz and accepting low pay and conditions when there are plenty of
unemployed Aussies. We all agree it is **** when the Oz airlines import pilots to take jobs here on crap conditions. Take Alliance now recruiting in Britain.

But that is exactly what you are saying is ok in the US. You go over there and accept **** conditions. Good on you, that's your choice, your career. Why aren't American's taking
those jobs? Maybe, just maybe, it's because the Yanks can get a bunch of dumb Aussies to come over to (perhaps selfishly) further their career thus keeping conditions low
in the US. Tell me why the hell is it such a sin here when 457 visas come up and poms and Seth Efricans or whoever come here, but Aussies going to the US and doing the same
thing, according to you, is making a positive impact. That is called hypocrisy. Thank you for your best wishes regarding my career - but sorry, I'm happily retired.

And Kenny - don't ever put purile **** on here correcting my latin. Per diem vs Per diems. I don't speak latin. Your correction is meaningless. When I call you a looser, for instance, then correct me.
(just in case you don't know, someone who does not win is spelt loser.) If correcting my latin is the best you got I suggest you go have a wank.

[Dreamiator]

Alright Kenny - maybe he didn't say he'd happily take $66k AUD - but I do think the tone of what he said tended to suggest that. He did say he and others are making positive strides in the US. How?
How is going to the US and taking **** money a positive stride? It is allowing the US airlines to find guys accepting of poor remuneration. $66k is garbage money end of story.

Socksie spare me the sob story about your positive impact. You have gone to the US and made a positive impact????????? Really??? - read these forums mate - all over
it in the Oz sections are guys quite correctly complaining about foreigners being granted 457 visas coming into Oz and accepting low pay and conditions when there are plenty of
unemployed Aussies. We all agree it is **** when the Oz airlines import pilots to take jobs here on crap conditions. Take Alliance now recruiting in Britain.

But that is exactly what you are saying is ok in the US. You go over there and accept **** conditions. Good on you, that's your choice, your career. Why aren't American's taking
those jobs? Maybe, just maybe, it's because the Yanks can get a bunch of dumb Aussies to come over to (perhaps selfishly) further their career thus keeping conditions low
in the US. Tell me why the hell is it such a sin here when 457 visas come up and poms and Seth Efricans or whoever come here, but Aussies going to the US and doing the same
thing, according to you, is making a positive impact. That is called hypocrisy. Thank you for your best wishes regarding my career - but sorry, I'm happily retired.

And Kenny - don't ever put purile **** on here correcting my latin. Per diem vs Per diems. I don't speak latin. Your correction is meaningless. When I call you a looser, for instance, then correct me.
(just in case you don't know, someone who does not win is spelt loser.) If correcting my latin is the best you got I suggest you go have a wank.

Mate I’d bet it was fun flying next to you! :rolleyes:

[DropYourSocks]

Alright Kenny - maybe he didn't say he'd happily take $66k AUD - but I do think the tone of what he said tended to suggest that. He did say he and others are making positive strides in the US. How?
How is going to the US and taking **** money a positive stride? It is allowing the US airlines to find guys accepting of poor remuneration. $66k is garbage money end of story.

Socksie spare me the sob story about your positive impact. You have gone to the US and made a positive impact????????? Really??? - read these forums mate - all over
it in the Oz sections are guys quite correctly complaining about foreigners being granted 457 visas coming into Oz and accepting low pay and conditions when there are plenty of
unemployed Aussies. We all agree it is **** when the Oz airlines import pilots to take jobs here on crap conditions. Take Alliance now recruiting in Britain.

But that is exactly what you are saying is ok in the US. You go over there and accept **** conditions. Good on you, that's your choice, your career. Why aren't American's taking
those jobs? Maybe, just maybe, it's because the Yanks can get a bunch of dumb Aussies to come over to (perhaps selfishly) further their career thus keeping conditions low
in the US. Tell me why the hell is it such a sin here when 457 visas come up and poms and Seth Efricans or whoever come here, but Aussies going to the US and doing the same
thing, according to you, is making a positive impact. That is called hypocrisy. Thank you for your best wishes regarding my career - but sorry, I'm happily retired.

And Kenny - don't ever put purile **** on here correcting my latin. Per diem vs Per diems. I don't speak latin. Your correction is meaningless. When I call you a looser, for instance, then correct me.
(just in case you don't know, someone who does not win is spelt loser.) If correcting my latin is the best you got I suggest you go have a wank.


Aight, let's do this.

Let's start with the E3 program. Introduced as part of an Aus - US trade agreement that allows each country's citizens to work in the other's country. It's not just pilots, it's dozens of industries. As I'm sure you're well aware though, there have been American pilots flying in Australia for a long time. They aren't coming to Australia in droves right now, because there are literally multi million dollar careers on offer after an hour long interview. Ask me how I know.

Next, the amount of hiring required in just one year alone in the US would be enough to take every pilot at every major in Australia. This rate of hiring is forecast to continue towards the end of this decade. The amount of Australian's that will ever come here literally make no difference to contract negotiations. But let's talk about US contracts. Every Australian pilot here works under a CBA, the same conditions as our American counterparts. Union membership is also mandatory at every Alpa carrier. So unlike Australia, if you refuse union membership, you don't have a job. Now take Alliance, where they have frightened folks into accepting individual contracts, and it's not hard to see how foreigners can be exploited. So yes, there is a difference. I agree that folks at home should be upset at 457's coming in on individual contracts. But when Australian's have AIPA, AFAP, VIPA, TWU or no union at all, and spend more time tearing each other down then standing together, is it really surprising it has come to this?

Let's talk about contract conditions next. You said GoJet's first year pay is garbage. Fair enough, but compared to what? The job is the equivalent to being an FO at Rex, Vara or Qlink. I know which I would choose, but that's me. Every regional that currently has Australian pilots has also seen massive improvements and signed new contracts after the biggest black swan event in over a decade. I'd say that says Australian's aren't having the negative influence you think they are.

Lastly, you can attack the work I've done here for Australian pilots. I don't mind. But, you can check my post history. I've been contributing to this thread in particular for close to 4 years now, sharing the good, bad and the ugly. I have been very fortunate in how my career has progressed in the US, and I try to help others along the path I've taken if that's something they choose.

What I don't understand is why you are so angry, since as you say you have retired. In any case though, I and pilots like me are not your enemy, nor are the 457s that come over either. Your real enemy sits at the top of Australia's biggest airline, and now has at his disposal at least 7 airlines he can use to whipsaw against each other. The only hope in the near term for a career at home is the US taking so many Aussie's that local operators have to up there game, or every pilot group that has a red tail bands together under one union and fights.

[havick]

Aight, let's do this.

Let's start with the E3 program. Introduced as part of an Aus - US trade agreement that allows each country's citizens to work in the other's country. It's not just pilots, it's dozens of industries. As I'm sure you're well aware though, there have been American pilots flying in Australia for a long time. They aren't coming to Australia in droves right now, because there are literally multi million dollar careers on offer after an hour long interview. Ask me how I know.

Next, the amount of hiring required in just one year alone in the US would be enough to take every pilot at every major in Australia. This rate of hiring is forecast to continue towards the end of this decade. The amount of Australian's that will ever come here literally make no difference to contract negotiations. But let's talk about US contracts. Every Australian pilot here works under a CBA, the same conditions as our American counterparts. Union membership is also mandatory at every Alpa carrier. So unlike Australia, if you refuse union membership, you don't have a job. Now take Alliance, where they have frightened folks into accepting individual contracts, and it's not hard to see how foreigners can be exploited. So yes, there is a difference. I agree that folks at home should be upset at 457's coming in on individual contracts. But when Australian's have AIPA, AFAP, VIPA, TWU or no union at all, and spend more time tearing each other down then standing together, is it really surprising it has come to this?

Let's talk about contract conditions next. You said GoJet's first year pay is garbage. Fair enough, but compared to what? The job is the equivalent to being an FO at Rex, Vara or Qlink. I know which I would choose, but that's me. Every regional that currently has Australian pilots has also seen massive improvements and signed new contracts after the biggest black swan event in over a decade. I'd say that says Australian's aren't having the negative influence you think they are.

Lastly, you can attack the work I've done here for Australian pilots. I don't mind. But, you can check my post history. I've been contributing to this thread in particular for close to 4 years now, sharing the good, bad and the ugly. I have been very fortunate in how my career has progressed in the US, and I try to help others along the path I've taken if that's something they choose.

What I don't understand is why you are so angry, since as you say you have retired. In any case though, I and pilots like me are not your enemy, nor are the 457s that come over either. Your real enemy sits at the top of Australia's biggest airline, and now has at his disposal at least 7 airlines he can use to whipsaw against each other. The only hope in the near term for a career at home is the US taking so many Aussie's that local operators have to up there game, or every pilot group that has a red tail bands together under one union and fights.

I wouldn’t waste your time arguing with someone that literally has no concept of how things work in the US regarding soft pay etc.

[Kenny]

And Kenny - don't ever put purile **** on here correcting my latin. Per diem vs Per diems. I don't speak latin. Your correction is meaningless. When I call you a looser, for instance, then correct me.
(just in case you don't know, someone who does not win is spelt loser.) If correcting my latin is the best you got I suggest you go have a wank.

Jesus H…..I’m not even sure where to begin with this fine example of incoherent, uneducated and completely ignorant ranting. You’re either a child, who’s daddy never gave him enough approval or some bitter twisted old man, angry at the world for a less than stellar career, who now numbs what’s left of his non-existent self esteem by drinking too much wine out of a box.

Do us all a favour and step away from the keyboard, any further posts from you will simply dig an even deeper hole.

Oh and I did learn Latin, so the correction was far from meaningless. It was me schooling you on an inaccuracy in your post, after you’d tried to school all of us, on something you know absolutely nothing about.

[Bellthorpe]

Let's start with the E3 program. Introduced as part of an Aus - US trade agreement that allows each country's citizens to work in the other's country.

Not quite. It was a by-product of the trade agreement talks, but it's not part of the agreement.

It's one-way. It allows qualified Australians to work in the US. It does not allow USians to work in Australia.

[Climb150]

Not quite. It was a by-product of the trade agreement talks, but it's not part of the agreement.

It's one-way. It allows qualified Australians to work in the US. It does not allow USians to work in Australia.

457 work visas we're already available to Americans at the time of E3 implementation so no need to create a special visa for US citizens to work in Australia.

[Kenny]

Not quite. It was a by-product of the trade agreement talks, but it's not part of the agreement.

It's one-way. It allows qualified Australians to work in the US. It does not allow USians to work in Australia.

Not that it’s a big deal but it came out of the agreement for Australia to buy the F35. The only country that did so when it was still on the drawing board and had yet to fly.

[umop apisdn]

Notwithstanding the incoherent ramblings above, for anyone who is actually watching and considering the move, multiplying monthly guarantee by hourly rate is the lowest you can possibly be paid, and seldom actually happens.

Most make much, much more, as there is a big difference between credit hour and block hour.

This month I'm flying 23 actual hours, 6 days total, and making 75 hours for the trouble. Granted it's an outlier and I still can't believe I'm gonna pull it off, but it's a good example.

Most of the time at most places, you fly way less than what you credit, and make way more than MDG.

[Thumb War]

A question for the guys who are over there - what position in Australia would you trade your spot in the US for, or if you already had it, would you not consider going to the US?

For example if you had a JQ command? JQ 78 FO? QF mainline LH FO? Mainline command?

I’m trying to gauge how high up the Australian aviation tree you’d have to be before you decided the US wasn’t worth it anymore. Personally I think it’s a no brainer for many, but the decision gets trickier the further you’ve advanced.

[Kenny]

A question for the guys who are over there - what position in Australia would you trade your spot in the US for, or if you already had it, would you not consider going to the US?

For example if you had a JQ command? JQ 78 FO? QF mainline LH FO? Mainline command?

I’m trying to gauge how high up the Australian aviation tree you’d have to be before you decided the US wasn’t worth it anymore. Personally I think it’s a no brainer for many, but the decision gets trickier the further you’ve advanced.

This would extremely tricky for anyone to answer with any accuracy. Simply because there are so many variables……

How long do you want to stay?
If you decide long term, do you end up at a legacy.
Regardless of where you end up, if you stay, how many years do have before retirement?
What responsibilities do you have tying you to Oz? Kids, wife, home…..

etc, etc, etc.

Im not going to get into specifics because I can’t be bothered with those that will assume I’m simply trying to advertise the size of my d!ck but from a financial POV, getting hired at a legacy in the US was financially, the smartest thing I’ve ever done. After 7 years here, I’m now earning 3x what I earn’t as a 73 FO at VA. The only reason that’s not 5x is because I’m delaying my 73 command because I have small kids and I’d rather spend more time at home. And by the time I retire, I’m planning to have 4-5 times in my 401k, than I would’ve had in my Super.

Now personally, the cons are long..Not least of which is that my kids have American accents and I have to continually correct their grammar. Well that and the aforementioned lack of sausage rolls.

[Thumb War]

This would extremely tricky for anyone to answer with any accuracy. Simply because there are so many variables……

How long do you want to stay?
If you decide long term, do you end up at a legacy.
Regardless of where you end up, if you stay, how many years do have before retirement?
What responsibilities do you have tying you to Oz? Kids, wife, home…..

etc, etc, etc.

Im not going to get into specifics because I can’t be bothered with those that will assume I’m simply trying to advertise the size of my d!ck but from a financial POV, getting hired at a legacy in the US was financially, the smartest thing I’ve ever done. After 7 years here, I’m now earning 3x what I earn’t as a 73 FO at VA. The only reason that’s not 5x is because I’m delaying my 73 command because I have small kids and I’d rather spend more time at home. And by the time I retire, I’m planning to have 4-5 times in my 401k, than I would’ve had in my Super.

Now personally, the cons are long..Not least of which is that my kids have American accents and I have to continually correct their grammar. Well that and the aforementioned lack of sausage rolls.


Thanks for the reply Kenny, I appreciate that there are many variables.

So let’s say someone mid career, a kid or two, and (maybe I assume incorrectly) at the moment an E3 has no realistic prospect of joining a major so would top out with Spirit or the likes.

I would think that if you’re young and uncommitted it’s definitely the way to go. Also if you haven’t got much seniority and the family is keen. Mid career and on a decent, though deteriorating wicket, it’s trickier.

The temptation for me is that the hits to our contract and QoL in Aus are coming harder and faster. In a few years it’ll be too late - opportunity is knocking.

[Kenny]

Thanks for the reply Kenny, I appreciate that there are many variables.

So let’s say someone mid career, a kid or two, and (maybe I assume incorrectly) at the moment an E3 has no realistic prospect of joining a major so would top out with Spirit or the likes.

I would think that if you’re young and uncommitted it’s definitely the way to go. Also if you haven’t got much seniority and the family is keen. Mid career and on a decent, though deteriorating wicket, it’s trickier.

The temptation for me is that the hits to our contract and QoL in Aus are coming harder and faster. In a few years it’ll be too late - opportunity is knocking.

The main issue and there are guys here that would have a better idea of things, is that none of the legacy carriers here are going the E3 route. That may change but not at the moment. So the LCC are the best option and the pay is limited at the beginning because that’s the way it is here. But the offset is that you won’t pay for an endorsement here, the taxes will be far less and the cost of living, for the most part, is significantly less. Commands or upgrade as it’s known here are coming thick and fast. At United, we have command slots going unfilled. Think about that, guys are passing up USD$300k jobs (at 1 year with the company) because they’re doing well enough as FO’s. There are other reasons but that’s a long conversation.

Now, going by what my mates that are CA’s at LCC’s tell me, they are making more than enough and they’re happy. So, it’s not all bad, if you don’t get to the majors. Personally, the financial reward at United, Delta or American is simply due in large part, to the extent they’re affected by any and all geopolitical situations that may or may not happen, at any time around the world. It doesn’t take much for things to go to sh!t and thousands get furloughed for a year or more. It’s happened before and at some stage, will likely happen again.

Let me put it like this. I have an Aussie mate, mid 40’s, ex CX skipper who quit and up-stakes to the US within days of getting his GC via the lottery. No kids but he is as happy a pilot as I’ve ever seen. And we are not the easiest bunch to keep happy.

[tossbag]

The most interesting contrast. between the two countries pilot cohorts:

For some insane reason, Australian pilots are agreeing to reduced terms to keep jobs with one of the biggest recruiting drives on the doorstep.

For some insane reason, American pilots are agreeing to increased terms due to one of the biggest recruiting drives on the doorstep.

Most of the regionals have increased their terms in an attempt to stabilise the pilot ranks, it's not working unfortunately, due to one of the biggest recruiting drives in history.

[ZebraFlyer]

A question for the guys who are over there - what position in Australia would you trade your spot in the US for, or if you already had it, would you not consider going to the US?

For example if you had a JQ command? JQ 78 FO? QF mainline LH FO? Mainline command?

I’m trying to gauge how high up the Australian aviation tree you’d have to be before you decided the US wasn’t worth it anymore. Personally I think it’s a no brainer for many, but the decision gets trickier the further you’ve advanced.

Not that I can answer from a USA perspective but to provide an Australian one.
Am a somewhat senior A320 FO - I’d hazard a guess at ~5 years max to command, 787 FO within next 2 years (unless I wanted Sydney which would be right now).

I and at least 3 captains I fly with are seriously looking at Spirit and Atlas at this stage. And to an extent Breeze but not properly done the figures.
Would make more at either after 4 or 5 years there as an FO than I ever will as a Captain where I am. If I somehow managed to score a green card (don’t think wife would approve of me marrying into one..) then the opportunities are endless. Even if I didn’t, once you have an E3 approved with a company there’s a few extras you can move into with it in hand (Frontier for example).

Life isn’t all about money, but we’re getting to the pointy end here. Do I want to do it for the rest of my career (~30 years) and be pushing **** up an industrial hill every few years? I don’t think so. I love the job I do and the people I work with, but is that enough to satisfy me the rest of my career? Also probably not. My logic is I better strike while the iron’s hot. Then if it all doesn’t work out I’ll try my best to return to the back seat of some QF metal.. or even return here, honestly don’t feel like at this stage am giving up all that much to give it a crack much to many of my colleagues chagrin (an Australian narrowbody command opportunity, you’re nuts!!!)

QF Captain or long haul FO I wouldn’t be going anywhere. I’d be pushing 45+ by the time I even had a look in at those positions though.

[Kenny]

Life isn’t all about money, but we’re getting to the pointy end here. Do I want to do it for the rest of my career (~30 years) and be pushing **** up an industrial hill every few years? I don’t think so. I love the job I do and the people I work with, but is that enough to satisfy me the rest of my career? Also probably not. My logic is I better strike while the iron’s hot. Then if it all doesn’t work out I’ll try my best to return to the back seat of some QF metal.. or even return here, honestly don’t feel like at this stage am giving up all that much to give it a crack much to many of my colleagues chagrin (an Australian narrowbody command opportunity, you’re nuts!!!)


Zebra, I go to great pains not to make moving to the US seem as if it’s paved with gold, or even that it’s not without its pitfalls but you sum up the conundrum perfectly. I was 43 when we left Sydney and VA. I knew what I was getting myself as I’d lived in the US for the 11 years prior to VA, flying an RJ with one of the best Regional Airlines in the US, at the time. Money isn’t everything but as my mum would say, it sure makes life easier. The problem is that an Australian narrow body command, simply isn’t going to pay that much. Not when you factor in the tax you’ll pay on that salary, not when you factor in the cost of living in the lucky country and certainly, not when you factor in the cost of buying a house. I’m not even talking about having having a couple of newish German cars in the garage or taking the family on holiday somewhere nice every year.

I’ve always thought the US was insulated from the economic realities of an ever-increasingly expensive world, simply because of economies of scale and that it’s at least 10 years behind the rest of the developed world, when it comes to cost of living. The current economic issues facing the world have sped that up and it’s a lot more expensive here at the moment but I do wonder just how bad I’d find it if I was living is Sydney right now.

I will leave you with this though, it can be easy to leave, it’s not that easy to return. And it can be damn near impossible when your options are as limited as they are, in Australia.

[Zeta_Reticuli]

Zebra, I go to great pains not to make moving to the US seem as if it’s paved with gold, or even that it’s not without its pitfalls but you sum up the conundrum perfectly. I was 43 when we left Sydney and VA. I knew what I was getting myself as I’d lived in the US for the 11 years prior to VA, flying an RJ with one of the best Regional Airlines in the US, at the time. Money isn’t everything but as my mum would say, it sure makes life easier. The problem is that an Australian narrow body command, simply isn’t going to pay that much. Not when you factor in the tax you’ll pay on that salary, not when you factor in the cost of living in the lucky country and certainly, not when you factor in the cost of buying a house. I’m not even talking about having having a couple of newish German cars in the garage or taking the family on holiday somewhere nice every year.

I’ve always thought the US was insulated from the economic realities of an ever-increasingly expensive world, simply because of economies of scale and that it’s at least 10 years behind the rest of the developed world, when it comes to cost of living. The current economic issues facing the world have sped that up and it’s a lot more expensive here at the moment but I do wonder just how bad I’d find it if I was living is Sydney right now.

I will leave you with this though, it can be easy to leave, it’s not that easy to return. And it can be damn near impossible when your options are as limited as they are, in Australia.

Australia is at a point now that if you want to live within a 1 hours drive of a capital city Airport, well $180,000 a year isnt going to cover a mortgage and the cost of living! Unless Adelaide is your dream city...
Australia is a lost cause at this rate

[Kenny]

Australia is at a point now that if you want to live within a 1 hours drive of a capital city Airport, well $180,000 a year isnt going to cover a mortgage and the cost of living! Unless Adelaide is your dream city...
Australia is a lost cause at this rate

We moved back to Oz from ‘10-‘15 and $180k wouldn’t have cut it then. Not with an “average” mortgage and kids in Sydney. We knew when we watched a news segment on the mortgage stress waiting to burst the banks in Oz and Mildura was stated to have the same cost of living as Chicago, that it was a lost cause.

[wlshwzd]

All of the questions are honestly on aviatiointerviews.com and are all up to date. You have to pay for the full gouge.

The following Q’s are from an Aussie in Hong Kong who did this 4 days ago.
Two interviewers via Microsoft Teams
Very nice people…(one pilot one and cabin crew manager) no question is designed to catch you out.


No technical questions
No ATPL theory questions
No, so why do you want leave your company Q’s
generally a discussion to remove the ******** factor. It’s a nice company.

Questions regarding breeze core values:
one of each

Safety, Kindness, Integrity, Ingenuity & excellence (SKIIE)

TMAAT- Tell me about a time

TMAAT When you displayed each of the key values and what was the outcome.

Tell us about why (if any) are their gaps in your resume. COVID, lay-offs, gap year, resignation or Jail.

Why Breeze ?
research the company, CEO and his history, their plans

Questions for the interviewers as in what happens next.

They’ll let you know within 7 days
You’ll then be passed to the other team who manage onboarding and then the
Company lawyers who will sort emergency E3 appointments

The earliest they could have you (with visa in hand) on day 1 groundschool ATP/CTP/SEP type training is 6 weeks from CJO letter.
Conditional joining offer.

You can request Embraer or Airbus as preference but will be given based on company needs.
Basing also - where the company needs you first but you can bid thereafter.

Good luck

[Bellthorpe]

Tell us about why (if any) are their gaps in your resume. COVID, lay-offs, gap year, resignation or Jail.



Jail ? An illegal question in many jurisdictions.

[Australopithecus]

Jail ? An illegal question in many jurisdictions.

I was wondering if that is true, and it doesn’t seem to be in either Australia or the USA. Lawyers caution against asking about criminal history on the application, but it is evidently fair game in the interview. In any event a security background check is required for the position. Almost certainly for the visa too.

[Jc31]

Hi guys can anyone tell me which airlines are currently sponsoring Aussie’s for a green card? I know currently that breeze and Commuteair are. Are there any more?

[phlegm]

I listened to a webinar from Spirit today and the rep (Australian guy) said that while nothing is confirmed yet, he's pushing for them to start sponsoring green cards and is optimistic that it will get approved. He said they'd probably only look at people who'd been there four years or so. No idea about any of the others.

[bafanguy]

phlegm,

Any idea how many of these webinars Spirit has conducted ?

[Captain.Crunch]

PSA have mentioned in a few E3 webinars that their lawyers are looking into the details of potential greencard sponsorship.

Nothing confirmed also, but have heard they will be looking at it more seriously next year. They are waiting to see how successful their E3 program is before going to the next level.

[Captain.Crunch]

phlegm,

Any idea how many of these webinars Spirit has conducted ?

They have run two so far.

[dreamjob]

Have people who attended the webinar been applying via the email address? Or Spirit Website?

[Captain.Crunch]

Have people who attended the webinar been applying via the email address? Or Spirit Website?

Spirit website and then follow up with an e-mail or vice versa.

[vee1-rotate]

Lol. My biggest pet peeves have always been the horrible bread and terrible bacon. Oh and Meat pies with tomato sauce, it’s the greatest gift to mankind. How they’ve not traversed the pacific, is beyond me. I do need to try the place in Chicago and see if they’re up to snuff.

If you live or can get to a Pilot Travel Center, you might find a little surprise in their refrigerated section (hint, it rhymes with More and Plenty)

[bafanguy]

This Ravn DHC-8 ad appears with some regularity. Not sure if that means they're having success finding E3s or not having any success:

https://jobs.flightglobal.com/job/1401542589/e3-visa-program-ravn-alaska-dash8-first-officer-type-and-non-type-rated/?TrackID=110&utm_source=rss&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=general

[Another Pilot]

Anyone got an invitation from Spirit for interviews in Oz?

[cxflog]

Anyone got an invitation from Spirit for interviews in Oz?
According to their recent seminar, interviews will be conducted for E3’s in June/July

[TinFoilhat2]

I did the interviews online and have a CJO from both Spirit and Breeze..

[Thumb War]

I did the interviews online and have a CJO from both Spirit and Breeze..


Congrats! Which way are you leaning and why?

[Hawk Circle]

I did the interviews online and have a CJO from both Spirit and Breeze..
Care to share what to expect from these interviews :rolleyes:

[TinFoilhat2]

Congrats! Which way are you leaning and why?

Probably Spirit due to A320 time and a bigger more secure operation. In saying that Breeze is a much quicker upgrade on the A220 with better seniority and if they last you will be in a better position a few years from now.

It all depends what you want in life, where you want to live, opportunity, upgrade times etc…

Breeze planes look cooler though…😎

[TinFoilhat2]

Care to share what to expect from these interviews :rolleyes:

A lot of TMAAT, usual HR questions (DUI, criminal record, checkride failures, been fired before etc..) and a small technical at Spirit which aviation interviews.com more than covers and no technical at Breeze.

Breeze however does concentrate heavily on the ‘Nice person attitude’ so big on customer service, the type of person you are, would be to work with and have a healthy respect for those around you and a safety culture.

[Captain.Crunch]

A lot of TMAAT, usual HR questions (DUI, criminal record, checkride failures, been fired before etc..) and a small technical at Spirit which aviation interviews.com more than covers and no technical at Breeze.

Breeze however does concentrate heavily on the ‘Nice person attitude’ so big on customer service, the type of person you are, would be to work with and have a healthy respect for those around you and a safety culture.

Are you located in Australia currently? Spirit had said they were only conducting in-person interviews for those in Australia for the time being.

[olirindis]

Gday…… at the end of E3 based employment must one leave the US? Are the immigration staff still monitoring one’s attempts at converting this Visa and is it frowned upon?

[tossbag]

Yes, if an E3 expires you must leave the States before the expiry. If the company wants to keep you beyond an E3 expiry it must be renewed outside the country, this can be done by going to Mexico or Canada or returning to Australia.

[TinFoilhat2]

Are you located in Australia currently? Spirit had said they were only conducting in-person interviews for those in Australia for the time being.

Im still in Australia.

[ThunderstormFactory]

So what do we have to do to be granted a virtual interview with Spirit?

[umop apisdn]

Gday…… at the end of E3 based employment must one leave the US? Are the immigration staff still monitoring one’s attempts at converting this Visa and is it frowned upon?

You don't really "convert" the visa, it is classed as "nonimmigrant" and therefore impossible.

What people do is find other legitimate ways into a green card, notably by marriage, DV lottery, EB3 or EB2.

That isn't frowned upon, but those avenues are totally separate from the E3.

[KAPAC]

E3 visa can be renewed for another 2 years ? This can go on indefinitely?

[havick]

E3 visa can be renewed for another 2 years ? This can go on indefinitely?

In theory it can be renewed indefinitely. But if your employee chooses not to support the renewal, or you have a criminal conviction in the interim (or myriad of other reasons), the immigration officer can choose not to renew it.

I haven’t heard of any renewals being knocked back, but there’s always the possibility there.

In all honesty, all the E3 holders I know that wanted to stay in the US and not worry about the E3 long term, have all found their own way to a green card.

[bafanguy]

An update on Silver Airways.

They still have the E3 info on their website:

https://www.silverairways.com/careers

And they've just negotiated a new contract with what they say are improvements:

https://www.travelindustrywire.com/article121035.html

Just FWIW

[peterpicklepeper]

Yes, if an E3 expires you must leave the States before the expiry. If the company wants to keep you beyond an E3 expiry it must be renewed outside the country, this can be done by going to Mexico or Canada or returning to Australia.
just to ask advice
I have interviews with some regionals and there asking if I have a record I got caught dui 25 yrs ago it doesn’t show on my record it’s gone but the job offer says I must list all crimes
plus my driving record is not to good either speeding but no tickets for 10 yrs should I tell them and possibly get no job or not tell them with chance of being found out and sacked
this isn’t fair I’m paying twice for my mistakes
Any suggestions
regards

[Kenny]

just to ask advice
I have interviews with some regionals and there asking if I have a record I got caught dui 25 yrs ago it doesn’t show on my record it’s gone but the job offer says I must list all crimes
plus my driving record is not to good either speeding but no tickets for 10 yrs should I tell them and possibly get no job or not tell them with chance of being found out and sacked
this isn’t fair I’m paying twice for my mistakes
Any suggestions
regards

Quite the conundrum. If it was simply a speeding ticket, I’d say you’d probably be ok but with a DUI you’re most likely going to be sunk. The one thing pretty much every airline will fire you for without thinking twice, is lying or being dishonest. You “could” leave it off your app but given the Australian thoroughness with records and red-tape, I’d be surprised if it doesn’t come up and then you’ll be out the door.
You never know until you try but I’m not sure there’s anything else you can do but be honest and work on a mea culpa that shows you’ve learnt form the experience and how you’ve changed as a person. Unfortunately, along with anything related to recreational pharmaceuticals, there’s a 90% chance you won’t get a job with a DUI on your record. Also, I’m pretty sure you have to list on your FAA medical, any DUI’s, so there are multiple apps you’d have to choose to either be honest on or falsify.

There’s a long history of pilots and alcohol and no airline wants to take the chance one of their pilots ends up on the morning news.

[tossbag]

this isn’t fair

Life wasn't meant to be easy.

You're talking what's not fair when you're jumping in a car under the influence? Maybe should have thought about the consequences of driving under the influence?

[bafanguy]

ppp,


My insignificant vote says you'll be fine in your job hunt. Kenny is right about withholding info. You don't want to spend one second looking over your shoulder to see if they will find out; computer government records are ubiquitous so you never know how interrelated they are. The saying goes that it's not the crime but the coverup...

[anecdotal info reports that some legacies have hired pilots with a DUI]

25 years ago is a long time and I'd guess it's easy to come up with a plausible explanation that you're no longer the knuckle-headed kid who made that mistake. Maybe an interview prep/app review company could advise you ?

Apply to all the regionals, have your explanation ready and press on. Good luck.

[peterpicklepeper]

ppp,


My insignificant vote says you'll be fine in your job hunt. Kenny is right about withholding info. You don't want to spend one second looking over your shoulder to see if they will find out; computer government records are ubiquitous so you never know how interrelated they are. The saying goes that it's not the crime but the coverup...

[anecdotal info reports that some legacies have hired pilots with a DUI]

25 years ago is a long time and I'd guess it's easy to come up with a plausible explanation that you're no longer the knuckle-headed kid who made that mistake. Maybe an interview prep/app review company could advise you ?

Apply to all the regionals, have your explanation ready and press on. Good luck.
thanks for the reply I well put it on and see what happens other then that I suppose I we’ll just retire from flying and fly privately it’s a pity but I never knew how this would effect me 25yrs later
It’s not all bad I guess I can just retire all together

[Kenny]

thanks for the reply I well put it on and see what happens other then that I suppose I we’ll just retire from flying and fly privately it’s a pity but I never knew how this would effect me 25yrs later
It’s not all bad I guess I can just retire all together

Bafan is right about getting the input of an interview service like cage or emerald coast. Google them. You may get an interview and if you do, you can’t afford to wing it and waste the chance. You’re not going to get many chances, so you need to know exactly how to answer the inevitable questions that are asked about the DUI.

[Eaglerocker]

whilst on the topic of DUI, anyone know how Aussie airlines like QF treat them? especially if it was somewhat recent

[freshy1234]

just to ask advice
I have interviews with some regionals and there asking if I have a record I got caught dui 25 yrs ago it doesn’t show on my record it’s gone but the job offer says I must list all crimes
plus my driving record is not to good either speeding but no tickets for 10 yrs should I tell them and possibly get no job or not tell them with chance of being found out and sacked
this isn’t fair I’m paying twice for my mistakes
Any suggestions
regards
A very old DUI will not immediately disqualify you from working for a regional, or even a low cost like Spirit.
You will struggle to move on to a major with something like that on record, although that would only be an opportunity if a green card was available.
You will be required to list it anyway on the DS-160 form for your E3 visa application. It will come up in your visa interview.
The US is very very anti-drink driving, even more so then Australia. But it does not make you inadmissible. Like everything regarding US immigration it is up to the consular officer on the day to approve the visa.
It will also come up in your FAA medical, so be prepared for that as well.

[Climb150]

I must ask. If a DUI that occured 25 years ago doesn't turn up on any background check, why would you tell anyone who doesn't know about it?

Airlines and the US embassy don't have any magic powers to see 25 year old convictions that don't appear on criminal history checks.

​​​​I had a DUI in 1992 and I have not mentioned it to anyone. I personally wouldn't say a thing.

[peterpicklepeper]

I must ask. If a DUI that occured 25 years ago doesn't turn up on any background check, why would you tell anyone who doesn't know about it?

Airlines and the US embassy don't have any magic powers to see 25 year old convictions that don't appear on criminal history checks.

​​​​I had a DUI in 1992 and I have not mentioned it to anyone. I personally wouldn't say a thing.
yes that’s what I thought climb
anyway I must mention to everyone that anyone who has a speeding ticket of any sort or dui it well be looked upon badly and could stop you from being employed
thanks everyone for the advice

[Kenny]

I must ask. If a DUI that occured 25 years ago doesn't turn up on any background check, why would you tell anyone who doesn't know about it?

Airlines and the US embassy don't have any magic powers to see 25 year old convictions that don't appear on criminal history checks.

​​​​I had a DUI in 1992 and I have not mentioned it to anyone. I personally wouldn't say a thing.

I probably wouldn’t be so proud of myself in public, for that. If you check the FAA website, you’ll find it should have been reported and you’ve been falsifying your medical. Congrats.

The cut off date is Nov 29th, 1990.

[tossbag]

Mistakes are made, no one is immune. Owning those mistakes and proving that it was a learnt experience is different to the 'life is not fair' bull**** coming from someone whinging about not being able to secure a flying position. Life ain't fair when an innocent life is taken due to the actions of a drink driver.

From what I've observed and experienced the US takes a very dim view of lying about these types of things, rightly so.

[TinFoilhat2]

I must ask. If a DUI that occured 25 years ago doesn't turn up on any background check, why would you tell anyone who doesn't know about it?

Airlines and the US embassy don't have any magic powers to see 25 year old convictions that don't appear on criminal history checks.

​​​​I had a DUI in 1992 and I have not mentioned it to anyone. I personally wouldn't say a thing.

I agree. There is no way they will find out about that unless you tell them. I’m not advocating lying etc but in this particular instance it was a quarter of a century ago, nobody will ever find out and telling them would only harm your chances in this scenario.

You learned your lesson, kept your nose clean and I don’t see why you should keep paying for that all this time later. Let it go and just forget it now…

[Mach E Avelli]

Treat it as an exercise in risk management.
The way I would look at something relatively trivial (in the grand scheme of criminality) that I did 25 years ago is this:
If I declare it, there is a more than 90% chance my application would be rejected by some holier-than-thou asshole with God on his side (in case you didn’t already know, the Americans really do believe in God). It will show his masters how diligent he is in weeding out closet alcoholics.
If I say nothing, there is probably a less than 10% chance that some over zealous 18 year old sleuth in human remains will find out anyway, and will also be keen to show how diligent she is in weeding out chronic liars, so my application will be rejected.

Which odds are better?
Back at the time of the Vietnam War we could be called up for national service at age 19, but the drinking age was 21. At age 18 I got ‘done’ for under-age drinking at a farewell party for some guys who had been drafted. Not only convicted, but my name made it to page three of the State’s major newspaper (a pathetic rag that had nothing better to report than pending divorces, minor misdemeanours and traffic offences). Did I ever admit my criminal tendencies to any employer ? F..k no - the info was there if they really wanted to find out, but either they did not, or did not give a sh!t.

But if I can offer some other advice to Peter Pickled : FFS work on your punctuation and spelling! The way your posts read, you are still under the influence of something. If your resume’ is anything like that, you won’t get a look in.

[neville_nobody]

Worth remembering that in the USA DUI is different. There is no RBT, and the police have to have a reason to pull you over. Then if they do you have to blow .08 so very different than here.

The former administrator of the FAA had a DUI charged dismissed because the Police had no reason to pull him over. Very different to here where the Police can just pull you over and breathalyze you for no reason.

I would suggest you seek US Legal advice and maybe discuss it with the airline.

[Climb150]

I probably wouldn’t be so proud of myself in public, for that. If you check the FAA website, you’ll find it should have been reported and you’ve been falsifying your medical. Congrats.

The cut off date is Nov 29th, 1990.

Oh Kenny I wish I was such an upstanding and truthful member of the community as you seem to be.

I once worked at Military recruiting and we were told to inform applicants that if it won't turn up on a background check, it did not happen. That's why most things don't turn up on a background check after x amount of years. It's the lawmakers giving you chance not be defined by something that happened in the past. To disclose everything you have done ever isn't realistic and probably challengeable in court.

[Kenny]

Oh Kenny I wish I was such an upstanding and truthful member of the community as you seem to be.
.

Oh don’t be such a child. You admitted on a public forum that you have a DUI that you’ve never admitted to while exercising the rights of an FAA medical, when it should have been reported. I couldn’t care less whether you report it or not but have some balls and own the fact you don’t think you’ve done anything wrong.

There’s no other nation that does passive-aggressive, self righteous indignation, quite like Australia.

[Climb150]

Wow Kenny you get triggered easily.

I may have broken a rule, but as I have stated there is no possible way anyone would know as it was so long ago and in a foreign country. I wasn't blind drunk I blew .05. For those that don't know .05 is actually drink driving. The max you can be is actually.04 so live and learn.

Surprisingly CASA didn't care as when I got my class one it was 15 years ago back then.

[peterpicklepeper]

Treat it as an exercise in risk management.
The way I would look at something relatively trivial (in the grand scheme of criminality) that I did 25 years ago is this:
If I declare it, there is a more than 90% chance my application would be rejected by some holier-than-thou asshole with God on his side (in case you didn’t already know, the Americans really do believe in God). It will show his masters how diligent he is in weeding out closet alcoholics.
If I say nothing, there is probably a less than 10% chance that some over zealous 18 year old sleuth in human remains will find out anyway, and will also be keen to show how diligent she is in weeding out chronic liars, so my application will be rejected.

Which odds are better?
Back at the time of the Vietnam War we could be called up for national service at age 19, but the drinking age was 21. At age 18 I got ‘done’ for under-age drinking at a farewell party for some guys who had been drafted. Not only convicted, but my name made it to page three of the State’s major newspaper (a pathetic rag that had nothing better to report than pending divorces, minor misdemeanours and traffic offences). Did I ever admit my criminal tendencies to any employer ? F..k no - the info was there if they really wanted to find out, but either they did not, or did not give a sh!t.

But if I can offer some other advice to Peter Pickled : FFS work on your punctuation and spelling! The way your posts read, you are still under the influence of something. If your resume’ is anything like that, you won’t get a look in.
Hahaha you are right on my spelling ability lol
one of my downfalls.

[bafanguy]

aseries,

Try this. Lots of reading but it'll probably answer your questions. They used to have a section called "Airline Profiles" that gave pay and details but I don't see it now. Maybe you have to register at APC to see the profiles (I'm not registered):

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/atlas-polar/

[Thumb War]

aseries,

Try this. Lots of reading but it'll probably answer your questions. They used to have a section called "Airline Profiles" that gave pay and details but I don't see it now. Maybe you have to register at APC to see the profiles (I'm not registered):

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/atlas-polar/


I don’t think you have to register, the profiles section is hidden in a different menu. That website is a wealth of information for all US airlines and helps you make an informed decision.

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/cargo/atlas_air

[Karunch]

Much is said about everyone jumping ship, but any insight into what Atlas are hiring onto, opportunities and payscale off the bat? Thanks in advance guys.

$92/ hour first year B744 FO, becoming $129/ hour second year & $170/ hour at year 5, minimum guarantee 64 hours/ month. Anchorage B744 FO is the most common start point. CBA is a 382 page document.

[bafanguy]

I don’t think you have to register, the profiles section is hidden in a different menu.

TW,

Found the "Profiles" info on APC. It's cruel to change things on a old guy. :*

[morno]

I see the AFAP post something on their Facebook page today about how the US doesn’t have a pilot shortage, because apparently there’s 1.5 pilots per every one needed.

Is the AFAP getting the ****s with pilots leaving Australia and transferring to overseas memberships?

[havoste]

I see the AFAP post something on their Facebook page today about how the US doesn’t have a pilot shortage, because apparently there’s 1.5 pilots per every one needed.

Is the AFAP getting the ****s with pilots leaving Australia and transferring to overseas memberships?

They definitely seem to be, they're no longer allowing job ads for E3 pilots on their site.

[bafanguy]

Is the AFAP getting the ****s with pilots leaving Australia and transferring to overseas memberships?

Is there any documented evidence that the E3 flow to the USA is having a negative effect on the Australian aviation industry ? I'd find that hard to imagine.

[Colonel_Klink]

I see the AFAP post something on their Facebook page today about how the US doesn’t have a pilot shortage, because apparently there’s 1.5 pilots per every one needed.

Is the AFAP getting the ****s with pilots leaving Australia and transferring to overseas memberships?

That’s a pretty long bow to draw.

It was a re post of an ALPA post which stated that there are 1.5 pilots for every job needed in the US, and that pushes by some of the US operators to reduce training requirements (ie the 1500 hour rule) should be resisted - and it’s arguably this rule that’s helping to ensure that pilot’s terms and conditions in the US are significantly on the improve.

The post then goes on to say that since the 1500 hour rule was introduced in 2010, that the US saw a 99% decrease in airline fatalities compared to the previous decade.

[bafanguy]

Lacking any solid evidence (so far) that the USA's 1500-hour rule is having a negative effect on domestic Aussie pilot supply, I don't see any reason for them to complain. And with the pervasiveness of the internet, AFAP barring ads from US carriers won't have an effect anyway.

Maybe the complaint is the drain on highly experienced Aussie pilots going north ? I just don't know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgqVCJpRqWQ

As for the 1.5 pilots per job in the USA, here's the source of that number:

https://www.alpa.org/advocacy/pilot-supply

[morno]

That’s a pretty long bow to draw.

It was a re post of an ALPA post which stated that there are 1.5 pilots for every job needed in the US, and that pushes by some of the US operators to reduce training requirements (ie the 1500 hour rule) should be resisted - and it’s arguably this rule that’s helping to ensure that pilot’s terms and conditions in the US are significantly on the improve.

The post then goes on to say that since the 1500 hour rule was introduced in 2010, that the US saw a 99% decrease in airline fatalities compared to the previous decade.

Given the negative email they also recently sent out, effectively telling pilots to avoid going to the US, you have to wonder what their real agenda is. Why all of a sudden do they care what Australian pilots do overseas?

[brokenagain]

Lacking any solid evidence (so far) that the USA's 1500-hour rule is having a negative effect on domestic Aussie pilot supply, I don't see any reason for them to complain.

At a very rough guess, for every Aussie pilot that I know of that is in the recruiting process for an Australian airline, there at least 2 or 3 are doing so for American airlines (mainly Atlas at this stage). I know many more pilots that have got a start in America in the last few months compared to in Australia.

[umop apisdn]

Given the negative email they also recently sent out, effectively telling pilots to avoid going to the US, you have to wonder what their real agenda is. Why all of a sudden do they care what Australian pilots do overseas?

I agree that there is something fishy going on with their vendetta against E3s.

Telling us that we are allowing ourselves to be exploited over here with absolutely no evidence.

Meanwhile not a peep about Australians working for free in Vietnam.

[Kenny]

I agree that there is something fishy going on with their vendetta against E3s.

Telling us that we are allowing ourselves to be exploited over here with absolutely no evidence.

Meanwhile not a peep about Australians working for free in Vietnam.

The size of the egos involved in the AFAP can't be understated. Why they've decided to take a stand on the E3 hill is beyond me because not only do they not know what they're talking about, they're just plain wrong.

[tossbag]

The size of the egos involved in the AFAP can't be understated. Why they've decided to take a stand on the E3 hill is beyond me because not only do they not know what they're talking about, they're just plain wrong.

What a joke of an organisation. In a very basic calculation the minimum wage in Australia is 42K approx. An instructor grade 3 would be earning this, after shelling out a significant amount to gain the licence. Yet they're telling pilots not to go to the US cos they could be exploited? D!ckheads.

[404 Titan]

This isn't difficult to work out. AFAP is a founding member with AIPA of AusALPA which is the Australian member association of IFALPA. ALPA is the US and Canadian member association of IFALPA. ALPA are trying to improve their member’s terms and conditions. The current shortages are a once in a lifetime opportunity to greatly improve them but see E3's are seen as a threat to their master plan. Solution? Use your affiliated associations to try and slow the applicants for E3’s.

[hillbillybob]

I'm sure this was discussed by "our" reps at the Singapore junket from a few weeks ago as certainly nothing else seems to be sent to the members about that expenditure of funds.

the greatest impediment to getting more E3s over in the US right now seems to be embassy/consulate capacity rather than anything the union is getting up to

[Kenny]

This isn't difficult to work out. AFAP is a founding member with AIPA of AusALPA which is the Australian member association of IFALPA. ALPA is the US and Canadian member association of IFALPA. ALPA are trying to improve their member’s terms and conditions. The current shortages are a once in a lifetime opportunity to greatly improve them but see E3's are seen as a threat to their master plan. Solution? Use your affiliated associations to try and slow the applicants for E3’s.

Titan, normally I'd agree with you wholeheartedly but the shortfall in the number of pilots needed at both the US majors and more so, the regionals, still far exceeds the number of E3's. You could hire 500 E3's tomorrow and it wouldn't come close to the number needed for all the US airlines to get through their summer schedules. United is getting a 73 every three days for the next year and I'm not sure how they're going to be able to staff just them.

[bafanguy]

...but the shortfall in the number of pilots needed at both the US majors and more so, the regionals, still far exceeds the number of E3's. You could hire 500 E3's tomorrow and it wouldn't come close to the number needed for all the US airlines to get through their summer schedules.

Kenny,

I tend to agree with you on this. In light of projected pilot requirements, I just don't see how a comparative handful of E3s changes the trajectory of pilot labor-market influence here. And those E3s will likely come to a unionized carrier where they will be able to vote for improvements to Ts & Cs just like their US counterparts and not water down pilot response to labor events.

As for filling all those projected pilots slots, one thing the airlines could do is get rid of the ridiculous HR kabuki dance that passes for pilot selection (they undoubtedly lose some pretty good prospects in the process): a meet-the-chief event...to see if you can get the invitation to take some nut-so online cog test with personality profile...to see if you can then get a face-to-face interview. And then if unsuccessful, you get to try again in some number of months. If hired then, they will be hiring the EXACT same person they turned down all those months earlier...it can't be otherwise except that they cost that new hire hundreds of seniority numbers by playing their silly game. Don't get me started...rant over. Sorry for the thread drift.

[and that's not sour grapes...my son flies for a legacy and I did 30+ years at one. I just know silly when I see it.]

[404 Titan]

Kenny

Yes and no. Australia certainly can't supply all the pilots the US needs which I've heard various figures but the average is about 12K. Canada is another place I believe the US is granting E3 for pilots as well. There are much bigger plans afoot in the US to granting E3's from many more countries. It is in that context ALPA in the US is trying to limit foreign pilots. They are also trying to stop Federal politicians from watering down the 1500 hour rule too. The FAA is also considering raising the retirement age. There are lots of moving parts to this and AFAP getting involved is just a very small part of it.

[bafanguy]

404 Titan,

Would you have a link to info about Canadians getting E3 visas ?

Found this about Canadians and a TN visa. First I've heard of it:

A cursory look at the list of eligible occupations on this website doesn't show pilot as one:

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/employment/visas-canadian-mexican-nafta-professional-workers.html



https://www.aussierecruitsf.com/blog/tell-recruiters-the-e-3-visa-is-like-the-canadian-tn-visa

[Kenny]

Kenny

Yes and no. Australia certainly can't supply all the pilots the US needs which I've heard various figures but the average is about 12K. Canada is another place I believe the US is granting E3 for pilots as well. There are much bigger plans afoot in the US to granting E3's from many more countries. It is in that context ALPA in the US is trying to limit foreign pilots. They are also trying to stop Federal politicians from watering down the 1500 hour rule too. The FAA is also considering raising the retirement age. There are lots of moving parts to this and AFAP getting involved is just a very small part of it.

Interesting that ALPA has played its cards close to its chest on this one, although I had no idea there were plans to open up the E3 to other nationalities. I know at the MEC level, there is huge resistance to E3's joining the Majors. Opening the E3 to other nationalities would cause an uproar from the locals and whether justified or not send them into a frenzy. As far as the retirement age is concerned, ALPA is supposedly against any increase. At least that is what we've been told by the MEC at my 14000 strong ALPA carrier.

[umop apisdn]

The E3 is a government thing, there are many Australians here doing all kinds of stuff. Canadians have been trying to get a similar visa since the dawn of time for a whole host or industries.

I don't believe that the E3 would open up in other countries just for pilots. It would have to go to every industry, and if this was the case (it's the first I'm hearing of it) it would require Congress to amend the law which allowed it in the first place.

I can see them doing it for a nationwide lack of qualified workers across every sector, but not just pilots, especially with alpa being the juggernaut it is.

​​​​​

[DropYourSocks]

So here's the thing about E3s that I think pilots tend to lose sight of... E3s aren't just for pilots, but rather dozens of industries. So any change to the E3 treaty visa has impacts far beyond our rather narrow patch of turf. Because of this, I have two beliefs in general.

1. Alpa won't be terribly successful in stopping E3s, simply due to the amount of other industries a change in that treaty would impact. That is unless pilots are removed from the list of occupations that an E3 is applicable to.

2. Other nationalities will be unsuccessful at piggybacking off of the E3 treaty visa for the same reason. It impacts dozens more industries than just our own. The flip side is if other nationalities do piggyback on the 10500 E3s available each year, with dozens of other industries also fighting over those limited slots, it may actually reduce the amount of pilots coming over on E3s.

What I believe is a larger threat to our careers in the US, is if the pilot shortage gets to a point so severe that Congress allows a visa open to pilots of all nationalities in an attempt to maintain current flying capacity. Think similar to wholesale 457 visas destroying the local scene at home. This is something I wholeheartedly support Alpa in preventing.


Edit: Upsidedown beat me to the punch

[tossbag]

At one regional in particular you need a current IPC, dunno about the others.

[havick]

I have received the foreign licence verification today but I was wondering if I need to do an Australian instrument proficiency check before I come up to U.S? My licence verification says that I have a valid instrument rating.

Just get your IPC done. The wording of the FSIMS require a current IPC on your foreign license.

some have slipped through with an expired IPC but I wouldn’t risk it if I were you for the sake of a few grand.

[404 Titan]

bafanguy

I know Atlas is employing ex CX Canadians and applying for a visa waiver so I might be wrong about E3. There is a couple of interesting threads on the Fragrant Harbour section of Pprune with quite a bit of info. ALPA is clearly against E3's though which is understandable as it could mean other visa waivers or types are granted. It is no different to when AFAP were protesting the granting of 457 visas to South Africans a few years ago. Protect your member’s conditions.

[bafanguy]

bafanguy

I know Atlas is employing ex CX Canadians and applying for a visa waiver so I might be wrong about E3.

Titan 404,

Thanks. I'd be curious to know what visa the Canadians are using at Atlas. I understand the Aussies come via E3 but haven't seen any verified specifics about the Canadians.

[MD_Attitude]

Hi ,

could you please direct my where exactly it states that on the verification letter that IR Rating is current as I am blind as a bat to see that .

MD

[havick]

Hi ,

could you please direct my where exactly it states that on the verification letter that IR Rating is current as I am blind as a bat to see that .

MD

The examiner “should” look at your casa license and verify your IPC is in date. It’s in their FSIMS.

[galdian]

Is it confusing definitions?

You have a valid ATPL license - as you have passed all requirements to hold such license - but cannot exercise that license without, as a minimum, a current medical (and any additional requirements).

You have a valid Instrument Rating - as you have passed all requirements to hold such rating - but cannot exercise that Rating without, as a minimum, a current IPC (and any additional requirements).

Just asking.

[Rogerwood]

Hi ,

could you please direct my where exactly it states that on the verification letter that IR Rating is current as I am blind as a bat to see that .

MD

You don’t need a current IPC for Spirit. They state a current license. As all licenses are “current “, an IPC is a proficiency check. Don’t need medical either. Your IPC will be done with your type rating and your medical done in USA.

[tossbag]

Thanks! Do you know if that is commutair?

Not Commutair, not sure what they're doing.

[havoste]

Piedmont and Envoy new-FO starting pay now $90/hr, going up to $205/hr for Capt, in addition to the bonusses. While they aren't taking E3s at the moment I'd imagine PSA which does will follow suit (being all AA wholly-owned), and probably the United regionals will have to rethink $50/hr if they want to have any chance in recruiting.

Great time to be a pilot over there.

[Abroad145]

Piedmont and Envoy new-FO starting pay now $90/hr, going up to $205/hr for Capt, in addition to the bonusses. While they aren't taking E3s at the moment I'd imagine PSA which does will follow suit (being all AA wholly-owned), and probably the United regionals will have to rethink $50/hr if they want to have any chance in recruiting.

Great time to be a pilot over there.

PDT and PSA are both taking E3's. I thought I heard an Aussie accent coming from an Envoy jet in Chicago last time I was there. OE captains potentially earning a lot more per hour while in that role. First-year f/o's $90 per hour plus an additional bonus of $30 per hour up to 2024. Will be interesting to see what United and Delta WO's will do. LLC's potential for pay rises maybe? Unless Gojet, Air Wisconsin and Skywest do something they could end up running out of pilots.

[Mach E Avelli]

You don’t need a current IPC for Spirit. They state a current license. As all licenses are “current “, an IPC is a proficiency check. Don’t need medical either. Your IPC will be done with your type rating and your medical done in USA.
'Current' means you can use it. A licence may be 'valid' for a lifetime, but without a current medical or IPC many jurisdictions won't accept it for a validation or conversion. Whatever the employer's non-technical HR department may state in loosely-worded recruitment criteria, the candidate still needs to get past the FAA. Pprune may not be the best place to get advice on this. Check with the FAA.

[havick]

I’ll say this one more time regarding the IPC currency and then you run the gauntlet on your own.

FAR Part 61 says valid instrument rating.

The examiner has testing guidelines and requirements laid out in the FSIMS which defines a valid instrument rating as current.

So it’s a gamble that if you turn up that the examiner is oblivious to that detail and you slide through the cracks.

For the record there have been more than a few E3 pilots sent home to get their IPC current and come back to do their flight test and don’t told not to come back based on not having a current IPC.

So take the risk if you want to.

[bafanguy]

Not Commutair, not sure what they're doing.

FWIW, Commutair still has the E3 info on their careers page. I suppose this doesn't necessarily mean they're actually hiring E3s at the moment ?:

https://www.flycommutair.com/e-3-visa/

[bafanguy]

A bit of PDT info for those who might be pondering it:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2022/06/10/regional-carrier-piedmont-airlines-and-alpa-pilots-sign-industry-leading-contract-deal/amp/

[Captain.Crunch]

A bit of PDT info for those who might be pondering it:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2022/06/10/regional-carrier-piedmont-airlines-and-alpa-pilots-sign-industry-leading-contract-deal/amp/

What a time to be flying in the USA. Envoy has received the same contract and PSA is likely to make a similar announcement in the coming week.

[tossbag]

PSA peeps are getting the improved conditions.

[bafanguy]

What a time to be flying in the USA. Envoy has received the same contract and PSA is likely to make a similar announcement in the coming week.

C.C,

IIUC, this new deal applies to all three AA wholly-owned regionals. I haven't tried to drill down on the fine print but I think the pay rates are for two years ? Not sure what's supposed to happen then. But it's a good deal if you want to do a touch & go at a regional.

It'll be interesting to see what effect this has on the other regionals both in terms of causing higher attrition and improving pay at other regionals like Endeavor.

[Ralphi]

I suggest everyone listen closely to what Havick has to say re the IPC and Medical needing to be current at your type check ride. SIMPLY because he is 100% correct.

your APD/check ride examiner will check currency and then as you likely wont have an existing 8710 record the paperwork is also likely to go to the FAA FSDO who will also check it. Any other way will/may result in a problem.

You don't actually need to convert Oz licence in any form to the US before the check ride and your first certificate can be the ATP with type rating under these conditions.

Also, yes Piedmont is doing E3s and is happy with the quality of Oz pilots from the program. after 5 years and as an LCA new payrate until Aug 2024 is velly noice (top is $427USD ph on 4 hour hard min day or as worked) plus bonuses. Training is excellent quality and you are well supported as long as the you put the work in.

pm me if interested, I always split half the after tax referral bonuses..

Raaalphie

[Dookie on Drums]

I’ll say this one more time regarding the IPC currency and then you run the gauntlet on your own.

FAR Part 61 says valid instrument rating.

The examiner has testing guidelines and requirements laid out in the FSIMS which defines a valid instrument rating as current.

So it’s a gamble that if you turn up that the examiner is oblivious to that detail and you slide through the cracks.

For the record there have been more than a few E3 pilots sent home to get their IPC current and come back to do their flight test and don’t told not to come back based on not having a current IPC.

So take the risk if you want to.
I must have been lucky then because my IPC wasn't current and it hadn't been a problem....twice!! The issue wasn't even raised.

[havick]

I must have been lucky then because my IPC wasn't current and it hadn't been a problem....twice!! The issue wasn't even raised.

Yes, early one some guys slipped through the cracks without a current IPC. Others weren’t so lucky.

Don’t chance it.

[TinFoilhat2]

I must have been lucky then because my IPC wasn't current and it hadn't been a problem....twice!! The issue wasn't even raised.

Me too, I went over with an Australian CPL and valid instrument rating BUT NOT CURRENT and I had no problems and you won’t now either.

Once you have an ATP written with a CTP and you do a type rating and your checkride includes the type rating, Instrument rating and ATP licence all in one. Think of the instrument part as effectively renewing it on your ATP checkride.

I know others who were the same as me and did it this way when I did my E175 type ride with a US regional back in 2015, moved on since then. In saying that if you are not sure just renew it now to be safe.

However you should not have any problems as long as you have a. VALID M/E Instrument rating.

[havick]

Me too, I went over with an Australian CPL and valid instrument rating BUT NOT CURRENT and I had no problems and you won’t now either.

Once you have an ATP written with a CTP and you do a type rating and your checkride includes the type rating, Instrument rating and ATP licence all in one. Think of the instrument part as effectively renewing it on your ATP checkride.

I know others who were the same as me and did it this way when I did my E175 type ride with a US regional back in 2015, moved on since then. In saying that if you are not sure just renew it now to be safe.

However you should not have any problems as long as you have a. VALID M/E Instrument rating.

This is bad advice.

back in 2015/2016 most of the examiners were new to foreign license conversion ATP rides. Now they’re well versed most examiners know the FSIM’s requirement for a current IPC.

[Mach E Avelli]

Havick, Ralphi.and a couple of others are really trying to help here. Those in denial who turn up in the USA without a CURRENT IPC & CURRENT medical do not understand how the validation of a foreign licence works. The civil aviation authorities in most countries can NOT validate something that is -at the time of the validation - unusable in the country of origin.
Besides, with such an important career move, would you not want to be right up to speed on your instrument skills? To rock up somewhere with expired qualifications is either ignorant or arrogant.
For those bemoaning the cost: a wise bird once said “to make money you have to spend money”

[ThunderstormFactory]

It’s more for us airline pilots who have expired IPCs but are operating under a training and checking system. Not entirely keen on hiring out a baron so I can get my IPC current.

[galdian]

I thought the days of renting a Duchess to do your IPC were well and truly over?

If you fly 737's then your IPC must be in a 737 - or at least an airline catagory aircraft you're rated (and current?) in if you're an airline pilot?

Try getting a 737 IPC in Austraila outside an airline T&C regime, ain't impossible but far from easy and don't even talk about the $$$.
Cheers

[Mach E Avelli]

Yes, exiting an airline ’ cyclic’ program back onto the street is a PITA. It is almost as if CASA colluded with the airlines to make it difficult. Like the bad old days with second class endorsement & ATPL second class. Not worth a c full of cold water anywhere else.
As irrelevant as it may be, hiring a Baron for a couple of hours could be the best way to get the right entry onto your Oz licence.
Ask the FAA. Maybe they would accept your C&T record for the last 12 months, but I expect you would still need to be current according to that system. If you were overdue a cyclic you’d probably be screwed.

[F0z]

My friend asked this question of the FAA recently and their correspondence said something along the lines of "ask your instructor/training organization."

Go figure...

From my perspective I guess the idea is to weed out those who once had an IPC years ago but have been flying predominantly VFR recently, thus may end up with issues in their type rating training.

[Rogerwood]

This is bad advice.

back in 2015/2016 most of the examiners were new to foreign license conversion ATP rides. Now they’re well versed most examiners know the FSIM’s requirement for a current IPC.

so your saying Havick that I will have to show my CASA IPC is valid to an examiner doing an USA A320 check ride with my FAA medical and ATP license? Rubbish

[bafanguy]

This may be somewhat old news but I'm not on FaceBook so can't check it out fully. It's dated April:

Umm, OK...not sure why the link won't post but it was from Frontier Airlines advertising for E3s.

It's the 2nd link down on this:

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=facebook+air+wisconsin+e3+austrailian+pilots

[tossbag]

so your saying Havick that I will have to show my CASA IPC is valid to an examiner doing an USA A320 check ride with my FAA medical and ATP license? Rubbish

If the FAA is directing you to your 'instructor/training organisation' and that organisation says you need a current IPC, then.......you need a current IPC. I know of two organisations that 'require a current ME IPC'

So, it's probably best to have a current ME IPC.

havick has been on this thread for a particularly long period of time, I don't know the person, haven't ever communicated with him/her but in this case, I'd be taking their advice. Some of the early E3's are now LCA's. Some of them have spent time in the training departments, I think they know what they're talking about.

[DropYourSocks]

so your saying Havick that I will have to show my CASA IPC is valid to an examiner doing an USA A320 check ride with my FAA medical and ATP license? Rubbish

Slow your roll there big fella. As tossbag has said, Havick has been passing on knowledge of the US for at least the last 5 years, and has helped more pilots then I'd care to count, including myself. You would be wise to heed his advice... or don't, your choice.

[Rogerwood]

Slow your roll there big fella. As tossbag has said, Havick has been passing on knowledge of the US for at least the last 5 years, and has helped more pilots then I'd care to count, including myself. You would be wise to heed his advice... or don't, your choice.

Im very happy with advice from anyone, but I here from the FAA directly that an Oz medical and IPC means nothing on an endo as you have to get an USA medical and IPC in the check ride. No one has distinctively stated that you need it or not. Advice is great and warranted but if you’re going to give it make sure it’s 100% correct. Lots of different opinions but none definitive. Just saying go and get a medical and ipc at $2000 upwards is good advice but if it’s not required then having currency on instruments etc is your choice.

[DropYourSocks]

Just in case anyone missed this:
https://www.afap.org.au/pilot-jobs/pilot-job/3620/Direct%20Entry%20A320%20%20First%20Officer
Have at it you animals, and good luck.

Also, apparently you can line up a Frontier and Avelo interviews through Aero Crew Solutions. Not sure exactly how it works, but here's the link if anyone wants it.

https://calendly.com/d/dnd-sn8-6tj

[tossbag]

Advice is great and warranted but if you’re going to give it make sure it’s 100% correct. Lots of different opinions but none definitive.

Dude, I'm telling you, at one airline at least, YOU NEED a current ME-IR IPC.

[Rogerwood]

Dude, I'm telling you, at one airline at least, YOU NEED a current ME-IR IPC.

Thanks. That’s definitive advice. That’s all where after.

[bafanguy]

Just in case anyone missed this:
https://www.afap.org.au/pilot-jobs/pilot-job/3620/Direct%20Entry%20A320%20%20First%20Officer
Have at it you animals, and good luck.

Also, apparently you can line up a Frontier and Avelo interviews through Aero Crew Solutions. Not sure exactly how it works, but here's the link if anyone wants it.

https://calendly.com/d/dnd-sn8-6tj

DYS,

Interesting. I understood AFAP wasn't going to allow ads by US airlines. Spirit must've gotten significant interest from Down There if they're going to send interview teams for local face-to-face interviews.

Interesting times.

[Rogerwood]

DYS,

Interesting. I understood AFAP wasn't going to allow ads by US airlines. Spirit must've gotten significant interest from Down There if they're going to send interview teams for local face-to-face interviews.

Interesting times.

Will there be 30 “count the buttons a factory produces in 33.31 lunar days by 43 workers at 76548 a millisecond” questions? Then a suck up to the HR department over lunch, followed by a sim ride with a 20 year retired grumpy 727 captain?

Or will they respect your flying experience, ask questions relative to the type of role you will perform?

[tossbag]

bafanguy, you know how pretty much every US airline is falling over themselves to retain pilots, all of the wholly owned AA regionals upping the hourly rate from $52 an hour to $90 an hour hour. UPS putting forward a contract extension that sees a 10 year captain on $466,492 USD. a 15 year captain on $490,515 USD . A 10 year FO on $296,937 USD , a 15 year FO on $319, 371 USD.

Well, there are Australian B737 FO's on $113,000, yes, that's $79,000 USD.

Australian pilots know there's a recruiting boom coming but they're voting themselves decreases in pay!

GTFOOH

By the way $490,515 USD converts to $701,434 AUD

Yet you still have Australian pilots trying to tell the world they are among the best paid domestic pilots in the world.

[WannaBeBiggles]

Dude, I'm telling you, at one airline at least, YOU NEED a current ME-IR IPC.

Can confirm, I know someone. personally that was sent home to renew his IPC after making the trip believing that he'll get past. Some have been successful, but it's a gamble that could cost you time, money and seniority!

[umop apisdn]

Will there be 30 “count the buttons a factory produces in 33.31 lunar days by 43 workers at 76548 a millisecond” questions? Then a suck up to the HR department over lunch, followed by a sim ride with a 20 year retired grumpy 727 captain?

Or will they respect your flying experience, ask questions relative to the type of role you will perform?
I'm not sure if you're joking or not but it's just an interview. No sim ride. No stupid questions. They will hire you unless you're a complete idiot.

[DropYourSocks]

I'm not sure if you're joking or not but it's just an interview. No sim ride. No stupid questions. They will hire you unless you're a complete idiot.

I'd like to add to "unless you're a complete idiot", with bringing an Oztranaut attitude with you. I know more than a few guys sent home because they couldn't let go of Australian best practices.

To be fair though, most American recruiters don't really understand the heartache that goes into a lot of the nuances of Australian aviation either. The struggles of all 7 atpl subjects, the years of being a bush pilot, the absolute anal-retentive focus on the exact right order of a ctaf radio call, or the 3 shuttle re-entries required to sit right seat in a Saab.

My advice to those who will be coming over; don't hold on so tight, and you will have a good time flying with the Americans. But if you lead with, "I've done X, Y and Z, therefore I..." you're going to have a bad time.

As those above have said, there's a lot of money on the table over here. You might not have a green card right now, but that's not to say you won't in the future.

Good luck y'all.

[Rogerwood]

I'm not sure if you're joking or not but it's just an interview. No sim ride. No stupid questions. They will hire you unless you're a complete idiot.

yes mate joking. Anyone who has done a QF interview would understand that comment.

[Rabbit 1]

Slight thread drift on my part, but this may offer some further thought into whether or not to depart Australia without a current medical or IPC.

I'm in Asia and out of work due to the pandemic and now age. Applied for a sim instructing qualification which was accepted by a well know identity in this region. Long story short, but everything I previously held has lapsed so my foreign license (Australian ATPL) has to be validated again, and this includes an Australian medical. My Asian ATPL expired piece by piece and is now worthless. The bare minimum I now need is a CASA Class 1 medical, and this is for a sim job, not flying. This requires travel overseas to complete. As others have alluded to, I'd be cautious about leaving Australia without the backbone of a current Australian medical and IPC.

[galdian]

Can confirm, I know someone. personally that was sent home to renew his IPC after making the trip believing that he'll get past. Some have been successful, but it's a gamble that could cost you time, money and seniority!

So someone's willing to uproot to the USA having jagged an E3 slot? Congratulations.

Same person is questioning the wisdom of making things as simple as possible for themselves AND the sponsoring E3 organisation by taking a spin in a Duchess or similar and doing a medical to ensure a long validity CASA Class 1 medical?
Couple of thousand $$ tops I'd imagine, wise investment IMHO.

Could end up nasty if the gamble NOT to have a current IPC/Medical turns to ****!
Cheers

[SkewedFlaps]

I have been going through all the regulations and FSIMS manual for airmen certification. What I can see that is required to conduct the practical portion of ATP:

Current FAA class 3 medical.
CPL with IR or ATPL with instrument privileges/rating and a valid verification letter.

From what I can see, going it alone without an airline you do not need to have passed a PC or IR renewal to take the practical portion of the check ride.

Can anyone else confirm that this IR currency fiasco is only a requirement of the E3 sponsoring airlines?

[Kenny]

I'd like to add to "unless you're a complete idiot", with bringing an Oztranaut attitude with you. I know more than a few guys sent home because they couldn't let go of Australian best practices.

To be fair though, most American recruiters don't really understand the heartache that goes into a lot of the nuances of Australian aviation either. The struggles of all 7 atpl subjects, the years of being a bush pilot, the absolute anal-retentive focus on the exact right order of a ctaf radio call, or the 3 shuttle re-entries required to sit right seat in a Saab.

My advice to those who will be coming over; don't hold on so tight, and you will have a good time flying with the Americans. But if you lead with, "I've done X, Y and Z, therefore I..." you're going to have a bad time.

As those above have said, there's a lot of money on the table over here. You might not have a green card right now, but that's not to say you won't in the future.

Good luck y'all.

To add onto what Socks said above. Success as an Australian in the US is really down to two things. They’re not inherently difficult but pretty much essential.

Firstly, while you may have done things differently and in YOUR opinion better than the Yanks whilst in Australia, it’s their train set and you will get a reputation for being a royal pain in the arse, if you keep telling them how much better the Australians are at aviation. I’ve done both FAA and CASA at the airline level and there are good and bad ideas on both sides of the pacific.

Secondly, don’t be the whiney, nasally Australian. It isn’t cute or attractive. It‘s annoying as hell and a complete embarrassment to the rest of us. I’ve been here, on and off for 23 years and apart from the odd comment, I’ve done what I think is pretty good job of flying the flag. They’re a good bunch and you’ll meet some outstanding aviators but there’s always the 1%, no matter where you go.

Australia is a lot of good things but aviation best practice, simply isn’t one of them.

Steps off soapbox.

[Hudson5]

G’day

Hoping someone might have an answer or suggestion for me.

I’m Australian and initially received an ATPL in Australia and flew in different jobs here for years.

Then converted my licence to an US ATP in California about 15 years ago.
I flew part 135 charter and did required medicals.

I returned to Australia and in the time I’ve been back here have had a “renew by CASA only” condition placed on my licence.

It really should of been removed years ago and now it will take 3 months possibly to get that removed.

If I attended an FAA medical in Florida with my FAA licence will the Doctor care about my Australia CASA Class 1?

Im thinking of taking a job there.

regards HUD

[Kenny]

If I attended an FAA medical in Florida with my FAA licence will the Doctor care about my Australia CASA Class 1?

Im thinking of taking a job there.

regards HUD

In a word, no.

You didn’t convert your CASA ATPL to an FAA ATP because there is no conversion process in FAA land. So, you did your FAA ATP flight test and were granted an FAA ATP based on flight time you gained in Australia. Therefore your FAA ATP is not based in any way on your CASA license and hence, an FAA AME won’t care about your CASA medical.

Best of luck.

[tossbag]

The FAA medical is a lot simpler than Austronaut land. But you still have to declare the same sorts of things you would in Aus.

If you were on medical audit in Aus you can expect the same issues and problems from the FAA, in some ways they are worse than Avmed.

[havick]

G’day

Hoping someone might have an answer or suggestion for me.

I’m Australian and initially received an ATPL in Australia and flew in different jobs here for years.

Then converted my licence to an US ATP in California about 15 years ago.
I flew part 135 charter and did required medicals.

I returned to Australia and in the time I’ve been back here have had a “renew by CASA only” condition placed on my licence.

It really should of been removed years ago and now it will take 3 months possibly to get that removed.

If I attended an FAA medical in Florida with my FAA licence will the Doctor care about my Australia CASA Class 1?

Im thinking of taking a job there.

regards HUD

Just out of curiosity, what triggered the renew by casa only condition?

[Hudson5]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Some great opportunities there. :ok:

[WannaBeBiggles]

CPL with IR or ATPL with instrument privileges/rating and a valid verification letter.

From what I can see, going it alone without an airline you do not need to have passed a PC or IR renewal to take the practical portion of the check ride.

Can anyone else confirm that this IR currency fiasco is only a requirement of the E3 sponsoring airlines?

I think you answered your own question. Can you think of any reason where CASA would say you had a valid IR or PC when they have lapsed when they're issuing the validation/verification letter?

[SkewedFlaps]

I think you answered your own question. Can you think of any reason where CASA would say you had a valid IR or PC when they have lapsed when they're issuing the validation/verification letter?

Don't really appreciate your smart ass tone.

FAA verification letter is to verify you hold the license and ratings, whether you are current or recent is another story.
I recently had one verified myself even though I haven't done a PC for years.

Hence my question remains, is this an E3 airline thing?

[Dookie on Drums]

As I said before, I've been over twice to the US without a current IPC but obviously with a verification letter and had no dramas whatsoever. This was about 2 or 3 years ago. Just ask them if it is an issue! Simple.

[Ge4rFai1ure]

Just got a job with a US regional.
E-3 Approved
Licence Verification requested (still waiting)
LCC completed
FAA medical booked

Talk me through the process of things that you have to do prior to entering the US and then prior to starting ATP conversion, Training in Sim and Aircraft.

Anyone who has also recently done all this what was the training process like? Moving process? Living situations? Work/Life balance? Culture? Ease of changing jobs in the future to other airlines offering E3?

[morno]

I think you answered your own question. Can you think of any reason where CASA would say you had a valid IR or PC when they have lapsed when they're issuing the validation/verification letter?

Have you ever got a verification letter?

I went overseas with an expired IPC (because I was under an airline check and training system), the letter made no mention of the fact that the IPC was not current.

[the_rookie]

Just got a job with a US regional.
E-3 Approved
Licence Verification requested (still waiting)
LCC completed
FAA medical booked

Talk me through the process of things that you have to do prior to entering the US and then prior to starting ATP conversion, Training in Sim and Aircraft.

Anyone who has also recently done all this what was the training process like? Moving process? Living situations? Work/Life balance? Culture? Ease of changing jobs in the future to other airlines offering E3?

You have to be joking right?

[umop apisdn]

Just got a job with a US regional.
E-3 Approved
Licence Verification requested (still waiting)
LCC completed
FAA medical booked

Talk me through the process of things that you have to do prior to entering the US and then prior to starting ATP conversion, Training in Sim and Aircraft.

Anyone who has also recently done all this what was the training process like? Moving process? Living situations? Work/Life balance? Culture? Ease of changing jobs in the future to other airlines offering E3?

Anyone who has also recently done all this what was the training process like? Achievable unless your sim partner constantly quotes Top Gun.

Moving process? Pretty much the same as moving anywhere else but you can only bring suitcases. If you wear all your clothes on the plane you have more space for appliances..

Living situations? You can usually afford a big ski in ski out house with at least 5 full time staff. Or at least you'll probably be able to in a few more months.

Work/Life balance? Easy. You can get eye drops that fix the redness after a huge bender so the pax won't realize you're in the hurt locker.

Culture? Can you dodge a bullet, eat crappy bacon and plunge yourself into huge amounts of useless debt while paying an inflated lease on a Chevy Equinox? You'll fit right in. Oh and don't forget to pick a political side and not think for yourself ever again.

Ease of changing jobs in the future to other airlines offering E3? Yeah not hard but the chick at the visa counter usually needs a couple of buddy passes to smooth things through.

[Thumb War]

Anyone who has also recently done all this what was the training process like? Achievable unless your sim partner constantly quotes Top Gun.

Moving process? Pretty much the same as moving anywhere else but you can only bring suitcases. If you wear all your clothes on the plane you have more space for appliances..

Living situations? You can usually afford a big ski in ski out house with at least 5 full time staff. Or at least you'll probably be able to in a few more months.

Work/Life balance? Easy. You can get eye drops that fix the redness after a huge bender so the pax won't realize you're in the hurt locker.

Culture? Can you dodge a bullet, eat crappy bacon and plunge yourself into huge amounts of useless debt while paying an inflated lease on a Chevy Equinox? You'll fit right in. Oh and don't forget to pick a political side and not think for yourself ever again.

Ease of changing jobs in the future to other airlines offering E3? Yeah not hard but the chick at the visa counter usually needs a couple of buddy passes to smooth things through.

Comedy gold, especially the last two responses 😂

[Abroad145]

Don't forget your TSA fingerprinting prior to the start of class. ( You don't strictly need it for Indoc or Ground School but definitely for sim.)
​​​​​​https://www.thupthupthup.com/fingerprint.htm

Best to come over with your Australian medical and IPC still valid.

PRIA forms.

FAA Restricted Radio Licence

Review the FAA ATP practice exams, Gleim or Sheppardair are good.

You need to do company pre-employment drug testing. Your company will nominate a lab for you to attend.

Social Security Number. When you arrive in the US, get it asap!

US bank account, you will need one for your payroll.

Moving and living in the US depends on you and your budget. Large cities are expensive, crowded, and sometimes sketchy. Smaller towns and regional cities are cheaper but you may have to commute to work.

Much like Australia, recruiting pilots will see straight through you if you start with a new company then bail then six months later. Show some loyalty to your new employer, after all, they are paying for your E3, ATP-CTP, Type Rating (bond free) and Accommodation. Most likely you will also be paid a Starting Bonus. If you leave early, you will have to pay the bonus back either pro-rata or the whole pre-tax amount, it depends on the company. If you really only intend to stay for a short period of time it would be best not to take the bonus check (cheque) at all.

Budget enough to get yourself a car.

Expect 5-7 days of company Indoc (Induction). Ground School and sims will either be AQP or an old-school TR with a jeopardy-type ride at the end. Any training failures are permanently recorded on your ATP license. You are required to disclose any training failures if you apply for another here job in the US. It will be picked up on PRIA anyway.

Training culture is different here. Come prepared, know your flows and scans, and memorize your emergency recalls and aircraft limits. Be humble, listen and learn from your instructors. Please don't invoke any Oztronaught "we did it this way" BS and you will be fine.

If you make it through training, company dependent, expect 50 hours OE with a check airman.

You may then be placed onto a reserve schedule, or you may be able to hold a bidding line depending on the company. Either way, you will normally be paid 75 hours of credit plus per diems (tax-free) if you fly.

Good Luck!

[Kenny]

Batwhacker clear your PM’s. Your inbox is full.

[Ge4rFai1ure]

Much Appreciated!! Thanks for your advice and opinions :)

[DropYourSocks]

Looks like Red Wing Aviation is doing a a webinar on Thursday 23rd at 11am AEST. They're advertising captains and FOs. Here's the link to the zoom meeting.



https://us06web.zoom.us/j/86770496632#success

[Gunner747400]

Be interesting to see if anything comes of this. Think it's the first time someone from the ALPA has written directly the DHS about E3's.

Fellow Spirit ALPA Pilots,Today, ALPA President Joe DePete and I sent a joint letter (attached) to Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas addressing the misuse of E-3 visas. The MEC is concerned that Spirit is seeking to misuse this "specialty occupation" visa designation to artificially suppress pilot compensation and displace qualified U.S. workers.

The MEC has spoken to management time and again about our concerns over attrition and offered solutions - namely opening Section 6 negotiations early to improve our pay rates and work rules to allow Spirit to attract and retain qualified U.S. pilots.

The Company has chosen not to pursue contract improvements through bargaining at this time, but instead is investing its time on a recruiting trip to Australia in July, with the intention of filling open pilot positions through the E-3 visa program.

Over the past several years, some U.S. airlines have attempted to use this E-3 visa scheme to avoid market pressure to improve wages and working conditions, exploit labor standards, and undermine collective bargaining. The SPA MEC and the full weight of ALPA National stand firmly against this anti-labor scheme.

In our letter to Secretary Mayorkas, we asked him to adopt past agency decisions as precedent establishing that airline pilot jobs are not a "specialty occupation" and coordinate with the Department of State to ensure that E-3 reviewers apply that precedent consistently.

We will continue to watch this issue closely and advocate not only for the jobs of all Spirit pilots but for all U.S. pilot jobs.

In Unity,
Captain Ryan P. Muller
SPA MEC Chairman

[Kenny]

Be interesting to see if anything comes of this. Think it's the first time someone from the ALPA has written directly the DHS about E3's.
That is not good.....

[Rogerwood]

That is not good.....


They need 1000s of pilots at all carriers. I can’t see the government stepping in and stopping E3’s because a LCC is hiring maybe 20 or 30 FO’s. The Biden administration is so inept. They let 10000 illegal immigrants in weekly I don’t think a few Aussies are going to cause a stir. Plus we have reciprocated visas with our government. You’ll be a 10 year captain before this gets traction

[Bluesideup2022]

Hi folks

I have 3 LCA's on hand and a Spirit Airlines interview coming up. My earliest E3 Visa appointment is NOV 1st. And emergency request for an earlier interview was rejected even though I have the letter from the company requesting urgency. Any ideas chaps on where even another country should be the fastest place to get an E3 visa consulate appointment?

[tossbag]

Fiji is out. I've heard Hamburg is in, Singapore is in, Honk Kong is in but would probably come with some pretty tight restrictions on your travel. I think South Africa, but not sure which city there.

I think there's a facebook group that discusses this but don't know the name of this group, maybe someone will PM you.

[Ia8825]

Hi folks

I have 3 LCA's on hand and a Spirit Airlines interview coming up. My earliest E3 Visa appointment is NOV 1st. And emergency request for an earlier interview was rejected even though I have the letter from the company requesting urgency. Any ideas chaps on where even another country should be the fastest place to get an E3 visa consulate appointment?

I used Frankfurt, it was fantastic, about 3 working days to get my passport back, easy to get a quick appointment. PM me if you need more info.