Australian pilots can work for US regionals.

[bafanguy]

There are less than 100 pilots in the USA on E3 visas so if you think that will make a difference to terms and conditions then you need to rethink your views.

pilotchute,

Yep, the same thought crossed my mind. I don't see the E3s being much of a market influence in the Big Picture.

Another random thought: No one knows how long the E3 deal will serve the Aussies willing to take a run at it. I don't see the government cancelling it but rather question how long those carriers accepting E3s will continue to do so.

Those who are considering it might want to pull the trigger where ever they can, just in the interest of caution. Get up here and get ya some of this while the gettin's good before something changes.

Just a thought. My crystal ball is in the repair shop so I'm just guessing. :ok:

[havick]

pilotchute,

Yep, the same thought crossed my mind. I don't see the E3s being much of a market influence in the Big Picture.

Another random thought: No one knows how long the E3 deal will serve the Aussies willing to take a run at it. I don't see the government cancelling it but rather question how long those carriers accepting E3s will continue to do so.

Those who are considering it might want to pull the trigger where ever they can, just in the interest of caution. Get up here and get ya some of this while the gettin's good before something changes.

Just a thought. My crystal ball is in the repair shop so I'm just guessing. :ok:


^^^^^This exactly.

There is no downside at all for an Aussie doing an E3. Put things in perspective, you will do 18-24 months as an FO to build up your 1000 hours part 121 required for upgrade (includes moving, Indoc initial training). Then another 2 years as a captain.

After 3-4 years you will walk away with 1000FO hours jet and 1500-2000 hours PIC jet in an airline. If you go with Piedmont as it stands right now there is a high chance you will flow through to mainline AA. There’s nothing to say you can’t also just stay in the US on an E3 as a check airman at s regional and still earn reasonable money.

If you had stayed in Australia you’ll still probably be flying around in some ****ty turboprop still sniffing for a call to qantas, virgin, tiger etc

Going to the US on an E3 is the new ‘just goto darwin or PNG’ that was 20-30 years ago.

[A Squared]

Duxnutz,

I could have agreed with you 2 years ago when regional pay was $20 an hour but some regionals pay nearly $50 an hour now. If they don't they will soon.

I'm pretty sure all the pilots that would have come out of the woodwork have already appeared.

The major Airlines in the USA are literally stripping hundreds of pilots a month from the regionals. FedEx and UPS are also hiring like crazy.

Right, the Majors are stripping away pilots. they are stripping away pilots because they are offering attractive terms of employment and the regionals are not. Yes, there has been some slow, reluctant change, but you'll also notice that most of the changes are not large changes in the entire pay scales, but things like signing bonuses, retention bonuses, which mainly make things more attractive to new hires, and then just temporarily. that's not to say that there have been no increases to the regional pay scales, but demo9nstrbly, those changes have not been significant enough to cause pilots to change their minds about leaving.


There are less than 100 pilots in the USA on E3 visas so if you think that will make a difference to terms and conditions then you need to rethink your views.


Two Responses to this.

1) It isn't how many are here right now, it's how many will this grow into.

2) It's a matter of degree, not a binary situation, in that there's some defined number, below which will not affect the market pressures on terms and conditions, and above which will. Any number of participants will serve to some degree to ease the pressures on improvements. Obviously 100 pilots has less of an effect than 5,000 would, but it's misguided to say that there's no effect.

[pilotchute]

The only reason you have regionals in the USA is to fly routes for the majors under contract. That is the only reason most regionals exist. They also don't fly the same equipment either.

It would be like saying the EMB 145 crews doing Denver to Chicago for a regional should get paid the same as 737 driver at a major? A lot of routes simply wouldn't be profitable if you put 180 seat aircraft on them. If they aren't profitable they get dropped.

See the problem?

[A Squared]

The only reason you have regionals in the USA is to fly routes for the majors under contract. That is the only reason most regionals exist. They also don't fly the same equipment either.

It would be like saying the EMB 145 crews doing Denver to Chicago for a regional should get paid the same as 737 driver at a major? A lot of routes simply wouldn't be profitable if you put 180 seat aircraft on them. If they aren't profitable they get dropped.

See the problem?

Can you point to the words of mine which you misinterpreted as me saying that regional pilots should get the same pay as pilots at the majors? I can help you sort out your misunderstanding. there will always be companies who offer more, and companies who offer less. I doubt that will ever change. But it is also true, that there are plenty of captains at plenty of regional airlines who would be more then happy to retain their seniority, and not move, or have to commute, if the pay scale and work rules were better. Not "same as a major airline" better but enough better that the disparity was not so wide that they were willing dive to the bottom of a much larger seniority list, move to a different city, go back to the right seat (probably for a long time) all to gain the better pay and working conditions. To put it differently, when a senior captain at a regional thinks life wold be better as a junior F/O at another airline, there's a pretty big disparity in terms of employment. And as along as being a junior F/O at a major is much better deal to most (and it is, as as evidenced by the exodus from the regionals) the regionals have a long way to go toward making themselves a decent place to work.


As a side note, are you seriously suggesting that Denver Chicago doesn't have enough traffic for a 180 seat airplane? Really?

[bafanguy]

...there are plenty of captains at plenty of regional airlines who would be more then happy to retain their seniority, and not move, or have to commute, if the pay scale and work rules were better. Not "same as a major airline" better but enough better that the disparity was not so wide that they were willing dive to the bottom of a much larger seniority list, move to a different city, go back to the right seat (probably for a long time) all to gain the better pay and working conditions.


AxA,

I agree.

While I don’t have complete seniority data from all the regionals there are undoubtedly many folks who’d be quite happy with a career at the regional level if things like pay/retirement/etc were better. A good lifestyle is a good lifestyle regardless of the airplane one flies.

However, in the current environment and organization of the major-regional relationship, the regionals are in a precarious position that may or may not be a suitable choice long term regardless of the pay structure.

As a mere example, the only seniority list I’ve seen in its entirety is the post-integration ASA-XJT list. The top third of that list had been there 15 years or more.

I frequently see these folks called “lifers”.

I’m not much on political correctness but the use of that term has a distinct pejorative ring to it: loser is the message. I’m not willing to disparage the career circumstances of hundreds if not thousands of people about whom I know nothing. What I do know is the profession is heavily driven by cyclical influences beyond the individual’s control…and mainline airline hiring mindset is nothing but erratic. We all have personal knowledge of mainline’s quixotic, whimsical behavior; they can just leave a great candidate in the dust by no fault of his own (and hire a bozo instead).

A regional career should be a viable option but at the moment, it’s a riskier choice than mainline…and that’s unfortunate.

[DUXNUTZ]

The only reason you have regionals in the USA is to fly routes for the majors under contract. That is the only reason most regionals exist. They also don't fly the same equipment either.

It would be like saying the EMB 145 crews doing Denver to Chicago for a regional should get paid the same as 737 driver at a major? A lot of routes simply wouldn't be profitable if you put 180 seat aircraft on them. If they aren't profitable they get dropped.

See the problem?

That’s entirely the mindset that I don’t get. Lots of guys I talk to at the legacies say the flying is very similar to the regional they were at, just the terms/contract. Remember that back ‘home’ Virgin operated e175s on a mainland contract (not perfect $$$ but not poverty).

I don’t discourage any of you from coming over here, I did the same nearly two decades ago. Things are definitely brighter industry wise than in years hence.

[Luggage]

No not the case, a 457 Visa in Australia automatically gave you the ability to apply for residency and then citizenship. The E3 in the US does not, it is simply a work visa and doesn’t have any built in automatic milestones and ability to apply for residency/citizenship.

The only way to get a green card from an E3 is either to marry a US citizen or have a company sponsor you. For a company to sponsor you they have to jump through a lot of hoops and expense. It’s not impossible to get a company to sponsor you but it’s not as easy to find one that will as the poster above suggests.

Correct. The E3 does not lead to an automatic green card application but there is nothing preventing an E3 Visa holder being sponsored by their company for a green card like I was.

Being on an E3 does not mean the company is not allowed to sponsor you, just means its a 2 year renewable vis indefinitely providing you have a job.

If you can show you will commit to your company most will be quite happy to do it as the costs are only between US$3k - $5k for lawyers and paper work filing. Not a big deal really if you think about it.

[Luggage]

[QUOTE=bafanguy;10103426]pilotchute,

Yep, the same thought crossed my mind. I don't see the E3s being much of a market influence in the Big Picture.

Another random thought: No one knows how long the E3 deal will serve the Aussies willing to take a run at it. I don't see the government cancelling it but rather question how long those carriers accepting E3s will continue to do so.

Those who are considering it might want to pull the trigger where ever they can, just in the interest of caution. Get up here and get ya some of this while the gettin's good before something changes.

Just a thought. My crystal ball is in the repair shop so I'm just guessing. :ok:[/QUOTE[B]/B]

Well the E3 visa is not just for Aussies. Its for Americans as well. It is different in that Howard and Bush signed the AUSFTA (Australia/US free trade agreement) in 2005 I think, not sure on dates.

The point is the 10k visas a year apply for Aussies to work in the US and Americans in Australia so the chances of this visa being revoked are slim to none.

Its a 2 way street so to speak so should keep Trump happy and works very well to be honest.

[havick]

Correct. The E3 does not lead to an automatic green card application but there is nothing preventing an E3 Visa holder being sponsored by their company for a green card like I was.

Being on an E3 does not mean the company is not allowed to sponsor you, just means its a 2 year renewable vis indefinitely providing you have a job.

If you can show you will commit to your company most will be quite happy to do it as the costs are only between US$3k - $5k for lawyers and paper work filing. Not a big deal really if you think about it.


That’s great it’s worked out for you.

The point is that the E3 is not an immigrant visa and isn’t automatically afforded a green card/residency. You must be sponsored going through a whole different visa process.

Perhaps you can post which company you are working for so other potential Aussie E3 applicants can target the right place to lead to residency.

[bafanguy]

Well the E3 visa is not just for Aussies. Its for Americans as well.

the chances of this visa being revoked are slim to none.


Luggage,

I'm not expecting the government to cancel the E3 program.

The "market" is another animal. When/if the market decides it no longer needs E3 applicants (or needs far fewer of them), the door will close, limiting the available slots. Those interested in this deal won't want to be on the wrong side of that door.

havick will confirm or correct my recollection but I think he said Envoy took E3s at one time but now no longer does ? If so, that's just an example.

Just thinking out loud here. I have no inside knowledge but do know the pilot market is a fickle thing.

[havick]

Luggage,

I'm not expecting the government to cancel the E3 program.

The "market" is another animal. When/if the market decides it no longer needs E3 applicants (or needs far fewer of them), the door will close, limiting the available slots. Those interested in this deal won't want to be on the wrong side of that door.

havick will confirm or correct my recollection but I think he said Envoy took E3s at one time but now no longer does ? If so, that's just an example.

Just thinking out loud here. I have no inside knowledge but do know the pilot market is a fickle thing.

Envoy never took E3’s. They looked at it but the union shut it down, I would’ve been rich off referral bonuses otherwise.

[bafanguy]

havick,

Thanks for correcting my faulty recollection. Too bad about Envoy not taking E3s...I hate to see a guy deprived of a good capitalist opportunity. ;)

What got me pondering this E3 vs market situation was hearing that Endeavor and Compass have classes scheduled almost to the end of this year (AFAIK, neither publicly, officially admits taking E3s). I wondered if perhaps the regional industry was slowly catching up to its manpower needs. Hard to say...

[True enough that scheduling classes isn't the same as getting all the scheduled butts in class]

But with all the attention the "worldwide pilot shortage" is getting, it may move more US nationals to take a run at the career.

We'll have to stay tuned.

[pilotchute]

I posted some incorrect info on bonuses so I just deleted it. I also spotted on the Endeavour careers page the FOs make over $50 an hour year one. Thats why classes are full.

Also regarding Envoy, how does a union decide that an airline can't hire people through a completely legal channel? The E3 isn't a skill shortage hole plugging visa. Its open to American and Australian citizens to live and work in each others countries for limited periods of time. Stopped comparing then to 457 style visas. They arent reciprocal.

Another thing happening in the Regional airline world is company hopping. People hang around at one company just long enough to collect the bonus then they move on to the next one.

[DUXNUTZ]

I posted some incorrect info on bonuses so I just deleted it. I also spotted on the Endeavour careers page the FOs make over $50 an hour year one. Thats why classes are full.

Also regarding Envoy, how does a union decide that an airline can't hire people through a completely legal channel? The E3 isn't a skill shortage hole plugging visa. Its open to American and Australian citizens to live and work in each others countries for limited periods of time. Stopped comparing then to 457 style visas. They arent reciprocal.

Another thing happening in the Regional airline world is company hopping. People hang around at one company just long enough to collect the bonus then they move on to the next one.

It’s upgrade, get Jet PIC and get out. Major airline money is way better than your regional bonus hopping theory.

[Luggage]

That’s great it’s worked out for you.

The point is that the E3 is not an immigrant visa and isn’t automatically afforded a green card/residency. You must be sponsored going through a whole different visa process.

Perhaps you can post which company you are working for so other potential Aussie E3 applicants can target the right place to lead to residency.

No the E3 does not automatically allow for a green card application like the H1B but that does not matter, nor is it an issue if the company chooses to sponsor your green card.

The company sponsorship for permanent residency is an entirely a separate issue. There seems to be some confusion in that if you are on an E3 you cant get a green card.

You just cant self sponsor a green card of an E3 but if you ask your boss nicely they may sponsor you on an EB2 or 3 basis which is an employment based category depending on your qualifications.

[Luggage]

Luggage,

I'm not expecting the government to cancel the E3 program.

The "market" is another animal. When/if the market decides it no longer needs E3 applicants (or needs far fewer of them), the door will close, limiting the available slots. Those interested in this deal won't want to be on the wrong side of that door.

havick will confirm or correct my recollection but I think he said Envoy took E3s at one time but now no longer does ? If so, that's just an example.

Just thinking out loud here. I have no inside knowledge but do know the pilot market is a fickle thing.

E3 is a professional visa and is not just for pilots. Just because airlines may stop E3 visa hiring does not mean the E3 will be disbanded.

As it is from a trade pact agreement unless that trade pact agreement is revoked the visa will remain...no ifs no buts!!

[bafanguy]

E3 is a professional visa and is not just for pilots. Just because airlines may stop E3 visa hiring does not mean the E3 will be disbanded.

As it is from a trade pact agreement unless that trade pact agreement is revoked the visa will remain...no ifs no buts!!

...ok.....

[A Squared]

Also regarding Envoy, how does a union decide that an airline can't hire people through a completely legal channel?

A union can do anything their contract with the company allows them to do. I don't know the particulars, but a contract is a binding agreement between two entities. The two entities can agree on anything they choose (within the law) if that contract has provisions which would restrict this, well, it's a contract.

A similar thing is scope clauses. It's perfectly legal under US law for an airline to contract out flying, but many labor contracts have provisions which restrict that to certain conditions. I don't know what is or is not in the Envoy contract, but it's entirely possible for there to be a provision which would restrict the company hiring from overseas.

[havick]

No the E3 does not automatically allow for a green card application like the H1B but that does not matter, nor is it an issue if the company chooses to sponsor your green card.

The company sponsorship for permanent residency is an entirely a separate issue. There seems to be some confusion in that if you are on an E3 you cant get a green card. You would be one of the first Australian person I know of to be sponsored as a pilot for a green card, so it’s still very slim pickings and shouldn’t bet the farm on.

You just cant self sponsor a green card of an E3 but if you ask your boss nicely they may sponsor you on an EB2 or 3 basis which is an employment based category depending on your qualifications.

No here ever said it was impossible to gain residency off an E3 visa, but the point is that an E3 still doesn’t automatically lead to a green card. You have to work for someone that is willing to sponsor you and/or marry a citizen which in itself are both very separate and different visa applications to an E3.

By the way you never mentioned which company you work for, would be nice to direct other Aussies there if it’s a proven track to a green card. I’m also curious as to who you flew 190’s for (as per one of your posts in a CX thread a while back) as I can only think if two operators in the US that operate 190’s currently and in the last few years and neither do the E3 or sponsor green cards.

[Alex3008]

So what are the current USA Regional Airlines hiring on E3 Visa? So far i have read of;-

1. Skywest
2. Compass
3. Mesa
4. Piedmont
5. Expressjet
6. CommutAir
7. PSA (their website says "valid passport")

All in all this is way much better and meaningful career wise than the 2 very limited regional option we have over here!

[bafanguy]

Alex,

This company advertised on the AFAP website. That'd be a strong indication:

https://www.afap.org.au/pilot-jobs/pilot-job/3737/EMB-ERJ%20145XR%20FIRST%20OFFICER%20FOR%20UNITED%20EXPRESS

[bafanguy]

Air Wisconsin are prepared to sponsor foreigners on the condition you already hold a FAA commercial license, radio license and medical.

AW's visa hiring seems to be rather limited:

Air Wisconsin, Jobs & Salary for Foreign Workers | myvisajobs.com (http://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa-Sponsor/Air-Wisconsin/20095.htm)

[Victory]

Hi Telfer

I am in US at the moment on E3 visa.

Regarding health insurance employer will not subsidise you for the first 60 days of employment. That is with Skywest.

I opened a bank account with Bank Of America and used employer's address and they had no issue. Received card and PIN with no issues.

Good luck.

Regards

Victory

[umop apisdn]

Telfer:

You can sign up to a bank with your hotel address.

I got Cricket which is like the Boost of Australia.

If you can get one in time, hook up a credit card that offers travel insurance and pay for your flights over with it. Get return flights because they are cheaper than one way usually anyway, and that should lock in your travel insurance for the time period between your flights. Just check the max travel time on the credit card and max it out.

[bafanguy]

Can't remember if Trans States Airlines has been discussed in this thread. I looked back for a mention until I got tired of looking. So, I'll put this here.

Trans states announced what appears to be a "flow" to Frontier Airlines (vs just the promise of an interview). There must be some more fine print to this thing but here are the main points. Frontier isn't the greatest at the moment but no one knows what the future holds for them; I've seen the customary merger rumors.

Not sure how this would apply to an E3 Aussie but Trans States does take Aussies:

“Trans States pilots will forego Frontier's interviewing process, and flow to Frontier Airlines' flight deck as a First Officer. “

Trans States to Frontier Pilot Flow Program (http://www.transstates.net/careers/pilot_careers/Pages/Trans-States-to-Frontier-Pilot-Flow-Program.aspx)




E-3 Visa Candidates (http://www.transstates.net/careers/Pages/E-3-Visa-Candidates.aspx)

[Seagull201]

I noticed a news article in the last 4 weeks in relation to new requirements, for any person applying for a work visa (E3/HB1 or 2, what ever).

A person is required to submit their, phone number, email, and user names of any social websites they participated in, during the last 5 years.
If a person has multiple phone numbers or emails during the last 5 years,they need to record it.

This is what was written at the time of press, it's more than likely it has been legislated by now.

[Ontheslide]

It may be slightly different for people heading over to the US but having spent a number of years as an expat, including working in North America, I can offer a little bit of advice regarding travel/health insurance. Most Australian travel insurance does not cover work as a pilot - you will not be covered if you are injured or get sick whilst on duty as a pilot, only when off duty. It just means that you do need a back up option to ensure coverage for when you start flying. I had to contact insurers directly and arrange a personalized policy for when my company couldn't provide insurance/I couldn't get local health insurance.

[Mav217]

Hey guys,

This is my 1st post here. Really pleased to hear that flying in the U.S is working out well and may it long continue. I got my FAA Commercial in California a few years back on an M1 visa. Had a sponsored right seat king air gig lined up in Seattle but had to head back home due to family reasons.

Been working outside aviation since saving up as much as I can and have been itching to jump back in. Planning to head over at the end of the year and try my luck with some operators flying light twins or turbo props. Any suggestions? Do any Part 135s, Air Ambo, Cargo or smaller operators offer E3? I need a lot of time to reach the ATP minimums before i can consider Part 121 flying. Will be 35 this year but being at the pointy end of a bird is all i wanna do. Its really encouraging and pleasing to read that you guys have paved the way and are doing so well stateside. Safe skies and all the best! Cheers Mav

[Safe Landings]

It is great to see that US regionals are working for most Aussies. A very small percentage of Aussies are not getting through training due to a variety of reasons. I happened to be one of them. For Aussies who are heading for US - have back up plans and money. Under E3 visa you can stay in US for up to 60 days after you get dismissed. I rang USCIS after this happened. You can do touristy things or look for another job. If you do get another airline job, there is a cost of another visa, TSA, perhaps you need to go to Canada, Mexico or back to Australia to apply for a new E3 visa. I was not allowed to apply for new E3 from US or transfer my current E3 visa to another employer. Also have finances enough to pay rent, flight back to Australia unless booked return flights from OZ. The airline will expect you to vacate from hotel in 24 hours so always have back ups of where you will live unless you elect to come home. Airbnb was great. Although I did not get through training, I have no regrets because it was a great experience and US Regionals are working for most people. Please do not be put off by this post US Regionals are great. Just be prepared financially just in case it does not work out.

Safe Landings

[Seagull201]

Hi Safe Landings, sorry to hear about you not getting through the training.
That can happen to anyone, as you'd be more under pressure during the training process than the locals, due to being so far away from home.

It's been a while since an Aussie has shared their actual experience about the US track (path), the U.S regional airlines are constantly advertising for
Australian licence holders that meet the minimum experience. (still ads around every now and then).

Can you please share your experience, where you think it didn't work for you during the training that you just under took?
Was it the transition to the EFIS panel, instrument flying, aircraft speed/configuration?
Im quite sure a person has to also pass the FAA ATPL written (single exam) by the end of the type rating.

Your experiences and advice, could possibly assist any person now or in future, as to what they can expect, during the US style type rating training.

Also, what was your aviation background prior to leaving OZ?
Instructor, charter, RPT?

Also, how many Aussies do you reckon are currently in the U.S at the moment?

Many thanks.

[Safe Landings]

Hi Seagull201,

Prior to leaving OZ, I was a very experienced Flight Instructor. I had no turbo prop or turbine time. There are quite a few Aussies in US. The exact number I would not know. During ground school, I met 6 Aussies. FAA ATPL is very easy, nothing like Oz. I passed that with no issues. My suggestion is to get Sheppard Air prior of leaving Oz and go through the questions before you leave. However, that said if you are short on time, go through Sheppard Air while doing the CTP course and follow the instructions EXACTLY of Sheppard Air. Trust me it works. With US regionals, some do it as first part of the ground school course and some do it at a later stage.

Usually people fail in Sim however, I failed ground school exam. Aircraft systems were barely covered in class. We were given 4 days to do 43 chapters, about 7 of them were CRM, rest of the chapters were systems of the aircraft type. Everyone has different learning styles. I was falling behind, so much to cover in so little time. I found it to be full on. I have been given another opportunity with another US Regional and they asked me why I failed training with previous US Regional Airline? I said the truth and were more than happy to give me a go. I asked about their training program and appears to be more suitable for my learning style. This new airline have emailed me systems, aircraft limitations and profiles already so I have a head start. Apparently this particular US regional email these things to all successful applicants.

On another note, regarding US banking when I reported that I lost employment and thinking of heading home back to OZ, they were very happy to leave my account open and not to charge me any fees for 3 months.

There are plenty of US regional jobs at the moment, The day I got dismissed I applied for only 1 Regional job, got a reply in less than 3 hours was interviewed and offered an opportunity 5 days later. My hold up is the new E3 visa.

Hope this info helps.

Safe Landings

[bafanguy]

It is great to see that US regionals are working for most Aussies. A very small percentage of Aussies are not getting through training due to a variety of reasons. I happened to be one of them.

SL,

Sorry to hear about your rough spot but don't let it discourage you too much. Dust yourself off and keep moving. If anything, you've had a peek behind the curtain, know what to expect next time and can adjust your game accordingly. No one is born knowing this stuff.

Is it possible to apply to a different US regional from scratch and take another run at this thing ? You'd have to divulge the prior circumstance but it's a chance to explain how you're wiser than before and ready to do better the 2nd time around.

I don't have any regional-wide stats but the one regional where I've gotten reliable info has a 4% failure rate.

Hang in there...get back on the horse that threw ya !

[Safe Landings]

Hi Bafanguy

Thanks for encouragement. I have got another opportunity with a different US regional on a different aircraft type. I definitely feel better prepared for second round. As pilots we need to be resilient. The US regional where I got dismissed from did tell me that I can reapply in 6 months if I do things differently. This shows that the airlines try really hard to get the candidate through.

[bafanguy]

I have got another opportunity with a different US regional on a different aircraft type. I definitely feel better prepared for second round. As pilots we need to be resilient. The US regional where I got dismissed from did tell me that I can reapply in 6 months if I do things differently.

Excellent. :D

[Seagull201]

Thanks for the feedback Safe landings, it's much appreciated.

Great to hear you expect to be returning soon and have a job lined up with another operator,
also good to hear you can return to the current operator.

When you come back to OZ, may i suggest you contact Flight Experience in Sydney (darling harbour),
if you're from Syd, or your capital city Flight experience centre and do at least 10 hours with an instructor in the
B737800 fixed base simulator.

In Sydney the instructor is an airline Captain, he can assist you in the transition to airline jet flying,
Flight Exp. also conduct MCC (multi crew co-ordination training in the B7378 sim)
Check the website on google.

Also, have a look at this website, angle of attack B737 training.com or
737NGXtraining.com , it's a US website.
I'm aware you're not going to fly a B7378 but an Emb175/Emb145/CRJ900/CRJ200,
one of them, the website has excellent explanation of the glass cockpit, which is the
same for all aircraft.
Parts of the video ground school may assist you with your assigned aircraft studies.

Have a look at it and see what you think.

Another thing, it could be an idea to be familiar with the ATC read backs, they talk over there
quite fast and ATC is dealing with so many aircraft each minute, and from what i seen on the internet,
a person has to readback ten lines without error.
Just watch any kingair or Cessna mustang flight, posted on youtube.

Get yourself prepared for next time.
I'm sure you will do quite well.

[Power]

Ah don’t waste your money on any of that crap, this is an American regional job not the NASA selection interview (aka any Austranaut airline interview). You don’t even do a sim as part of the interview.
They will teach you how to fly the thing and are used to people coming directly from pistons/GA so the expectation is that you are safe.

[WannaBeBiggles]

Don't waste your money, if the theory side was your undoing then read as much as you can!

Make sure you know your EP's and your limitations and you're set for the sim, the rest is easy.

[DUXNUTZ]

Any Aussie pilots in the USA Facebook groups?

[umop apisdn]

Any Aussie pilots in the USA Facebook groups?

Yes.
PM me if you need links.

[Berealgetreal]

Thanks for the feedback Safe landings, it's much appreciated.

Great to hear you expect to be returning soon and have a job lined up with another operator,
also good to hear you can return to the current operator.

When you come back to OZ, may i suggest you contact Flight Experience in Sydney (darling harbour),
if you're from Syd, or your capital city Flight experience centre and do at least 10 hours with an instructor in the
B737800 fixed base simulator.

In Sydney the instructor is an airline Captain, he can assist you in the transition to airline jet flying,
Flight Exp. also conduct MCC (multi crew co-ordination training in the B7378 sim)
Check the website on google.

Also, have a look at this website, angle of attack B737 training.com or
737NGXtraining.com , it's a US website.
I'm aware you're not going to fly a B7378 but an Emb175/Emb145/CRJ900/CRJ200,
one of them, the website has excellent explanation of the glass cockpit, which is the
same for all aircraft.
Parts of the video ground school may assist you with your assigned aircraft studies.

Have a look at it and see what you think.

Another thing, it could be an idea to be familiar with the ATC read backs, they talk over there
quite fast and ATC is dealing with so many aircraft each minute, and from what i seen on the internet,
a person has to readback ten lines without error.
Just watch any kingair or Cessna mustang flight, posted on youtube.

Get yourself prepared for next time.
I'm sure you will do quite well.


Just had a quick read of the thread. This is very good advice. I hired the QF sim and used the old flight sim software B737 at the time. I use NGX for my recurrent sims. Certainly not perfect but does help. I nailed the interview sim, it was perfect I couldn't believe it.

[Safe Landings]

Hi Everyone

I actually did 10 hours Sim in B737 before I went to USA for first Regional Airline job. I did V1 cut, steep turns, ILS approaches etc. I already started studying for the next aircraft type. I have heard radio calls in US can be a challenge due to many aircraft at one time.

Thanks for encouragement.

Safe Landings

[Australopithecus]

I have on my storage somewhere a book on generic airliner systems. I think it is published by Jeppesen. It covers the typical system designs for electrical, hydraulics, pneumatics etc. Once you grasp the basic design philosophy learning a different type becomes a lot easier. Also search for a book by Jim Webb called “Fly the Wing”. Its a bit dated but it has valuable strategies for passing an typical FAA type rating as well as an exhaustive discussion of high speed aerodynamics and swept wing characteristics.

Good luck in the new gig. And very good on you for honestly posting about your difficulties on that first course.

[Safe Landings]

Hi Australopithecus

Thanks for the recommendation for the book by Jim Webb. I will buy it if I can find one.

Thanks for the well wishes for the next new gig and for my honesty. Failure is not something people like to talk about because it is embarrassing however if I can save just one person from going through the possibility of failing an airline course, I have achieved a mission in itself.

Thank you again.

Safe Landings

[havick]

Hi Australopithecus

Thanks for the recommendation for the book by Jim Webb. I will buy it if I can find one.

Thanks for the well wishes for the next new gig and for my honesty. Failure is not something people like to talk about because it is embarrassing however if I can save just one person from going through the possibility of failing an airline course, I have achieved a mission in itself.

Thank you again.

Safe Landings

what did you find you struggled with going through initial? Also which company?

not all companies are equal and some have better training departments than others.

[Safe Landings]

I struggled with Ground School (Aircraft Systems) section of the course. It is very fast paced. I had to go through 43 chapters in 4 days - about 7 or 8 chapters of them were CRM. It was Computer Based Training (CBT) and was not really covered in class. CRM portion was straight forward. The company was the one that most Aussies go for, I believe. They advertised heavily towards end of last year.

Safe Landings

[havick]

I struggled with Ground School (Aircraft Systems) section of the course. It is very fast paced. I had to go through 43 chapters in 4 days - about 7 or 8 chapters of them were CRM. It was Computer Based Training (CBT) and was not really covered in class. CRM portion was straight forward. The company was the one that most Aussies go for, I believe. They advertised heavily towards end of last year.

Safe Landings

sounds like you’ve never been through a fast paced/large volume information course before.

in your shoes I would try again with commutair. They’re hiring Aussies on e3’s, captain pay 2nd year regardless of being upgraded or not.

second time around you will know how to prep/study a little better.

expect the same firehose Type course with any airline you join in the US. You are not spoon fed.

good luck hope it all works out

[Safe Landings]

Hi Havick

You are correct, I have never been through a fast paces/large volume course before and I am better prepared for the second airline.

I have been warned already that to expect the same firehose with any airline I join in US.

Thanks for the well wishes.

Regards

Safe Landings

[bafanguy]

I struggled with Ground School (Aircraft Systems) section of the course. It is very fast paced.

Safe Landings,

If one looks for a silver lining in your situation, the systems knowledge issue is likely the easiest of several aspects to correct. A stick-and-rudder stumble would be more difficult to overcome.

If you're heading to a different company with a different airplane, find some generic systems info online and hit it hard before you go. :ok:

[Safe Landings]

Hi Bafanguy

Yes I can not agree with you more. The new airline have sent me material to study already and am doing further online study.

Thanks

Safe Landings

[umop apisdn]

Hey Safe Landings.

Were you CRJ or ERJ? We had about 6 Aussies in our CRJ class and everyone got through ok. I'm wondering what you would have done differently given the opportunity? Did you miss systems twice or did you only have one pass left?

I'm sure it won't be difficult to get in on another regional. Just make every waking hour study time. I was vegetarian during class just because I could cook my dinner and eat it in like 15 minutes, then return to study. Lunch breaks were an hour but most of us took about 20 minutes. Maximise that study time.

Many nights as well we'd just sit in a circle and make up questions for each other. get a study group then you can keep each other accountable

​​​good luck.

[Kwod]

Such a mature outlook Safe Landings. I am really interested in US and this was the best information (and unusual to find on Prune).
What about the Airline prep course offered by Aviation Australia? Is this or the 10 hours B737 SIM in Sydney
better prep?

[havick]

Such a mature outlook Safe Landings. I am really interested in US and this was the best information (and unusual to find on Prune).
What about the Airline prep course offered by Aviation Australia? Is this or the 10 hours B737 SIM in Sydney
better prep?

no absolute waste of money for someone going to US regionals.

[bafanguy]

Just pondering the case of a person heading north to take on their first air carrier jet from a light airplane background.

Those of you who have done this from similar circumstances, what would you suggest a compatriot study in preparation for the training ? It seems rather a lot of subject matter to cover. Not sure I'd know what to tell someone.

[DUXNUTZ]

Just pondering the case of a person heading north to take on their first air carrier jet from a light airplane background.

Those of you who have done this from similar circumstances, what would you suggest a compatriot study in preparation for the training ? It seems rather a lot of subject matter to cover. Not sure I'd know what to tell someone.

Back in the day I read the book ‘Turbine Pilots Flight Manual’ but I was going from a 210 to a multi crew turboprop over 12500lbs. I honestly think the Aussie ATPL theory on aerodynamics, basic gas turbine and the Flying Glass is pretty good for basics.

I’d probably download the US FAR/AIM, the Instrument Handbook by the FAA and the Aviation Weather books on meteorology for a grounding as well as a really good IPAD app ‘Everything explained for the Professional Pilot’. Not so in my current job but at the regional level I’m sure they ask you cloud clearance criteria for various airspace, lost comm procedures etc during the oral. Well maybe not with AQP but you should know this stuff anyhow.

I honestly think it would do ppl well to come over and hire an instructor to go fly a lil IFR before launching cold into a job with an airline here. It can be a bit of a change and challenge getting up to speed with various expressions/ATC terminology.

[bafanguy]

I'll toss these in for a bit of Jeps review. The Chart Clinic is particularly good for for intro/review of the format:


http://ww1.jeppesen.com/documents/aviation/business/ifr-paper-services/intro-USA.pdf

Jeppesen Chart Clinic (http://craigmorton.com/ifr/)

[JPJP]

I'll toss these in for a bit of Jeps review. The Chart Clinic is particularly good for for intro/review of the format:


http://ww1.jeppesen.com/documents/aviation/business/ifr-paper-services/intro-USA.pdf

Jeppesen Chart Clinic (http://craigmorton.com/ifr/)

I’ll add two useful concepts for training;

1. Cooperate and graduate - If you’re in your room, by yourself, trying to read the AOM & FOM from front to back - You’re screwed. Memorize what you need to, and then study for the oral exam in a small group. Gather gouge (cheat sheets, work flows, flows etc.). Share it. Chair fly in a paper tiger or VPT with your Sim partner. Memorize your flows however you like, then do them repeatedly with a partner. Do practice Orals with a small group. Asking yourself questions isn’t really effective.

2. Put out the Fire Cosest to you. - Unless you’re a fkin genius, do not study for your 5th Sim when you don’t know your memory items, limitations, and you haven’t passed the Oral. Prioritize.

3. Don’t forget to go to the bar - Seriously :)

[DUXNUTZ]

#2 is great info. I found it quite difficult having to seemingly learn everything at one time. Oral prep (systems knowledge), flows and learning the profiles. It’s a little different in how we do things (even airline level) in Oz.

One tip tip I can share that works well is when your uncertain whether you understand a system or concept is try to explain it to someone. Teaching something shows you understand it.

Having a a beer or two can be a great way to blow off steam, exercise is also great and helps calm a running mind.

[Power]

One girl in my class failed after trying to write too many notes, sometimes you just need to sit back and listen. She was literally writing down every word that the instructor spoke

[lee_apromise]

FYI, Compass stopped E-3 thing, just letting you guys know.

That leaves Mesa, SkyWest, CommutAir, Trans State and Piedmont still offering E-3.

[Professional Amateur]

Any indication why? I suppose you spoke/contacted them, would be interesting to know why.... No shortage of applicants, bad experience with Aussies, union pushback, admin burden....

[DropYourSocks]

Just for further info for Trans State... They advertise hiring Aussies, but when I spoke to them they hadn't actually hired any yet and seemed uncertain as to how the whole visa process works. It may be worth considering that if you run with them you may be the first one working out the wrinkles in their process.

Socks

[lee_apromise]

Any indication why? I suppose you spoke/contacted them, would be interesting to know why.... No shortage of applicants, bad experience with Aussies, union pushback, admin burden....

The recruiter said and I quote "HQ was going back and forth for 2 weeks about hiring Australians on E-3 and they decided that the cost is not justified". I found it a bit weird in a way that Compass, GoJet and TSA are all under the same parent company and yet TSA is willing to take Aussies on E-3 (don't know if GoJet is still hiring Aussies) whilst Compass is not anymore.

AFAIK, there is not a single Aussie working at Compass under E-3 (except green card holders).

Piedmont recruiter told me the other day that there is no clause in their pilot contract preventing Aussies under E-3 flowing to AA mainline. It will suit Aussies in early to mid-20s I guess.

[havick]

The recruiter said and I quote "HQ was going back and forth for 2 weeks about hiring Australians on E-3 and they decided that the cost is not justified". I found it a bit weird in a way that Compass, GoJet and TSA are all under the same parent company and yet TSA is willing to take Aussies on E-3 (don't know if GoJet is still hiring Aussies) whilst Compass is not anymore.

AFAIK, there is not a single Aussie working at Compass under E-3 (except green card holders).

Piedmont recruiter told me the other day that there is no clause in their pilot contract preventing Aussies under E-3 flowing to AA mainline. It will suit Aussies in early to mid-20s I guess.

yep the guys on an E3 that took the punt on piedmont a year or so ago have won the lottery with the flow through to mainline. I bet they will change that in the next round if contract but those already there will be grandfathered across.

[Seagull201]

The advertisement on the afap website today, "Regional jet Pilots USA", sounds as if they're a consultancy firm, with what
appears to be linked to a gmail (email).

At least 1,500 hours are needed by an applicant, before applying for a U.S regional, also the night and IFR hours need to be met.

The ad. is saying only 1,000 hours is needed for them to place an applicant in contact with a regional, it doesn't sound correct.

I'd say a consultancy fee is also payable for their advice.
They sound like a middle man.

[bafanguy]

The advertisement on the afap website today, "Regional jet Pilots USA", sounds as if they're a consultancy firm, with what
appears to be linked to a gmail (email).

At least 1,500 hours are needed by an applicant, before applying for a U.S regional, also the night and IFR hours need to be met.

The ad. is saying only 1,000 hours is needed for them to place an applicant in contact with a regional, it doesn't sound correct.

I'd say a consultancy fee is also payable for their advice.
They sound like a middle man.

Yes, I'd be curious to hear how all that works. The flight times are regulatory and not negotiable by some agency. Maybe they're just casting a wide net at 1,000 hours to catch some people who, in about a year +/-, WILL have 1,500 hours and then be eligible ? But one year can see a lot of changes.

And why would one need an agency in this situation ? Haven't Aussies done rather well dealing directly with the airline ?

https://www.afap.org.au/pilot-jobs/pilot-job/3799/Regional%20Jet%20Pilots%20-USA

[pilotchute]

It's a Gmail account so I would say it's just a guy who thinks he can make a buck with referrals or a one person agency preying on the gullible.

[havick]

The advertisement on the afap website today, "Regional jet Pilots USA", sounds as if they're a consultancy firm, with what
appears to be linked to a gmail (email).

At least 1,500 hours are needed by an applicant, before applying for a U.S regional, also the night and IFR hours need to be met.

The ad. is saying only 1,000 hours is needed for them to place an applicant in contact with a regional, it doesn't sound correct.

I'd say a consultancy fee is also payable for their advice.
They sound like a middle man.


yep sketchy as hell. I’d say it’s another Aussie already over there fishing for details to submit for internal referrals to get a referral bonus.

anyone can apply directly to these companies without any need of a middle man. Any regional in the US that takes E3 applicants are now fairly well versed in the process for Aussies.

[Professional Amateur]

....and it reads like the person who wrote it isn't a native English speaker..... Adds to the dodgyness factor.

[havick]

Is anybody else experiencing delayed processing times for the issue of the SSN? Mine has been stuck in the USCIS system for two weeks. I have been told it can take up to 30 days to be cleared by USCIS.

amything to do with immigration takes longer than expected, they are full up processing other frivolous applications.

[jetta1fuel]

Hi Havick

You are correct, I have never been through a fast paces/large volume course before and I am better prepared for the second airline.

I have been warned already that to expect the same firehose with any airline I join in US.

Thanks for the well wishes.

Regards

Safe Landings
G'day Safe landing

are u able to provide more info on what you enet through with the visa and training privately pls?

thanks

[oicur12.again]

Starting to hear more fellow ozmates over here on the airwaves.

And adopting the . . . . . laid back approach to RT too.

Skywest this morning near IAD was a classic ozzie accent at "three five oh".

Best of luck lads.

[Capt Fathom]

Starting to hear more fellow ozmates over here on the airwaves.

And adopting the . . . . . laid back approach to RT too.

Before long, they'll forget about English altogether! :E

[bafanguy]

Latest call for Aussies from CommutAir, dated June 5:


https://www.latestpilotjobs.com/jobs/view/id/409.html

[Seagull201]

I've seen the latest CummutAir advertisement on the afap website, also the previous adv placed by the airline 5 months ago.

After reading all the posts on this topic, i've concluded, a person is eligible to apply for an E3 and go to the U.S Consulate,
only, when there is an offer of employment by the airline (person has been accepted to start type training by the airline).

**What i'd like to know and something that has been hidden in the advertisements lately, what are the minimum educational qualifications needed?

The current CommutAir adv, doesn't mention anything about educational requirements (only ATPL hour requirements), whilst the previous adv,
mentioned a high school diploma, or GED (US General Education Diploma- single exam of 4 subjects, 60% pass mark needed-designed for people
that didn't finish high school).

Or is some type of University Degree still needed?

[havick]

I've seen the latest CummutAir advertisement on the afap website, also the previous adv placed by the airline 5 months ago.

After reading all the posts on this topic, i've concluded, a person is eligible to apply for an E3 and go to the U.S Consulate,
only, when there is an offer of employment by the airline (person has been accepted to start type training by the airline).

**What i'd like to know and something that has been hidden in the advertisements lately, what are the minimum educational qualifications needed?

The current CommutAir adv, doesn't mention anything about educational requirements (only ATPL hour requirements), whilst the previous adv,
mentioned a high school diploma, or GED (US General Education Diploma- single exam of 4 subjects, 60% pass mark needed-designed for people
that didn't finish high school).

Or is some type of University Degree still needed?

australian high school suffices for all regional requirements here in the USA.

in short you need to have completed high school and meet the requirements for a FAA ATP

[Seagull201]

Havick,

I read your previous posts and i'm aware you're flying there for a while now and appreciate your feedback.
I spoke to recruitment today by phone, to verify the educational requirement side of thing, and the lady said,
an applicant needs a Bachelor degree or nine years work experience.
(General E3 requirement by consulate)

Any Bachelor degree will meet the educational side of things to get the visa from the consulate, with the
airline's assistance.
A Bachelor degree and meeting the ATP hour minimum's, as listed by the company advertisements,
is all that's needed to apply

Apparently applicants are experiencing problems getting the E3, without the degree.

A Bachelor degree is a 3 year course (online or campus), there's an aviation Bachelor degree that's available in Australia.
The High school diploma or GED, is for local US applicants that hold an FAA ATPL.

I've read the previous posts where applicants, had no Bachelor degree and no 6 or 9 years flying industry experience,
but still got the E3.

The above is the feedback i received today.

[havick]

Havick,

I read your previous posts and i'm aware you're flying there for a while now and appreciate your feedback.
I spoke to recruitment today by phone, to verify the educational requirement side of thing, and the lady said,
an applicant needs a Bachelor degree or nine years work experience.
(General E3 requirement by consulate)

Any Bachelor degree will meet the educational side of things to get the visa from the consulate, with the
airline's assistance.
A Bachelor degree and meeting the ATP hour minimum's, as listed by the company advertisements,
is all that's needed to apply

Apparently applicants are experiencing problems getting the E3, without the degree.

A Bachelor degree is a 3 year course (online or campus), there's an aviation Bachelor degree that's available in Australia.
The High school diploma or GED, is for local US applicants that hold an FAA ATPL.

I've read the previous posts where applicants, had no Bachelor degree and no 6 or 9 years flying industry experience,
but still got the E3.

The above is the feedback i received today.





ok so we are taking about different things here.

you are referring to E3 visa requirements, I am referring to regional minimum entry requirements. Two different things.

a lot of guys are here without a degree and without 9 years experience. Perhaps the consulate is clamping down now given the amount of guys coming over. I wouldn’t know, I’m here on a green card so haven’t kept tabs on the E3 side of things.

out of curiosity which company is giving you that feedback?

[Seagull201]

Okay.

I'm talking about if an applicant apply's for a regional airline job from Australia, as advertised by Skywest and Commutair, recently and previously.
Yes, regional entry requirements for Australian applicants.

The lady at Commutair HR, said, a Bachelor degree is needed, as they're experiencing some problems getting E3's for applicants,

A Bachelor degree is needed or the relevant number of years industry work experience, is required, for the airline to sponsor an
applicant for a E3 visa.

Although an applicant may receive a possible job offer from a regional, the degree or industry work experience needs to be met,
to enable the airline to process the E3 visa via the consulate.

Skywest has the same requirements, Bachelor degree needed.

This is the feedback received, unless i've spoken to the wrong people in HR.

[havick]

Okay.

I'm talking about if an applicant apply's for a regional airline job from Australia, as advertised by Skywest and Commutair, recently and previously.
Yes, regional entry requirements for Australian applicants.

The lady at Commutair HR, said, a Bachelor degree is needed, as they're experiencing some problems getting E3's for applicants,

A Bachelor degree is needed or the relevant number of years industry work experience, is required, for the airline to sponsor an
applicant for a E3 visa.

Although an applicant may receive a possible job offer from a regional, the degree or industry work experience needs to be met,
to enable the airline to process the E3 visa via the consulate.

Skywest has the same requirements, Bachelor degree needed.

This is the feedback received, unless i've spoken to the wrong people in HR.

sounds like the consulate is clamping down and doing more research on each applicant, and making sure they meet the educational or industry experience requirements then.

This latest change in tact from the consulate will significantly reduce the amount of illegible applicants given the majority have been non-degree fairly fresh CPL’s (3-4 years flying to get to the 1500 hours). Can hardly blame the consulate for enforcing the rules.

[bafanguy]

sounds like the consulate is clamping down and doing more research on each applicant...Can hardly blame the consulate for enforcing the rules.

havick,

What does that mean for those already flying in the US on an E3 when it comes time to renew the visa ? Will they get the new level of scrutiny and be denied if found lacking the quals to hold an E3, i.e., BS degree and/or requisite years in the profession ?

Perhaps some consulate "shopping" might produce better results ?

And the government with its Perfumed Princes can always be blamed.

[havick]

havick,

What does that mean for those already flying in the US on an E3 when it comes time to renew the visa ? Will they get the new level of scrutiny and be denied if found lacking the quals to hold an E3, i.e., BS degree and/or requisite years in the profession ?

Perhaps some consulate "shopping" might produce better results ?

And the government with its Perfumed Princes can always be blamed.




that’s a good question. I don’t have a crystal ball, nor am I an immigration attorney so who knows what the outcome will be for someone in the situation you mention above.

Ive heard of and know of one person that has had their green card revoked and citizenship revoked based on originally obtaining an immigrant visa using false information (misrepresentation). That being said if the person that originally went for their E3 interview and were granted their visa with no misrepresentation and the consulate officer granted it on the information in front of them then who knows.

If I were to bet I would say that they will be a tick and flick to be renewed, I wonder if they even ask for any more evidence to renew it other than a continued letter of offer?

once I again I don’t know the consulate ins and outs of the E3 as I came over on a green card from day one. So I’m only taking a wild guess.

[bafanguy]

If I were to bet I would say that they will be a tick and flick to be renewed, I wonder if they even ask for any more evidence to renew it other than a continued letter of offer

havick,

I hope you're right. Pulling the rug from under people who came here honestly under a good faith legal process would be unconscionable. But government has no conscience and therefore can never be trusted.

My question was more rhetorical than anything else.

[VH DSJ]

There's some conflicting information around. I know of two people who have just been granted their E3 visas without a degree and around 5 years industry experience.

[Seagull201]

There's some conflicting information around. I know of two people who have just been granted their E3 visas without a degree and around 5 years industry experience.

There is conflicting information around.

I enquired by phone and to spoke to a lady in Human Resources at CommutAir, that handles the Australian side of things,
The above written posts was the feedback recieved.
A Bachelor degree was mentioned, due to visa processing difficulties being experienced, or an applicant needed, the required number of years of industry work experience.

The feedback i received doesn't have to be gospel, further information is needed.
There have been posts on this topic in the last 6 months from persons, saying, they got knocked back by the Consulate for an E3 application and that's with 4 years industry work experience (no degree),
while other people got through and no degree or number of years.

It's probably best for a person to email skywest and Commutair and ask them about the visa requirements, in relation to the Bachelor degree and work experience requirements.
It's approaching mid year now, the advertisements from Skywest and CommutAir will continue all year round and years to come.

The more people that contribute to this topic and let everyone know of their experiences in getting the E3, the better the information everyone will have, prior to applying.

[bafanguy]

It wouldn't surprise me at all to find one consulate interpreting the rules differently from another (humans !! :* ). I see three consulates in Australia. Are the successful, degreeless people applying through one in particular ?

[Professional Amateur]

Are Republic Airlines doing E3s? I just got a no thanks email.

[havick]

Are Republic Airlines doing E3s? I just got a no thanks email.

I don’t think republic were ever doing E3’s

[Professional Amateur]

That's good news then!

Leaves me with skywest and gojet at the top of my list. Gotta shake this helicopter problem!

​​​​​​

[havick]

That's good news then!

Leaves me with skywest and gojet at the top of my list. Gotta shake this helicopter problem!

​​​​​​

If those are your choices I would go with skywest and avoid gojet

[Professional Amateur]

They are my option by choice thankfully.

So why avoid gojet? I am at the pointy end of making a D so any info would be helpful.

What the chances of getting your pick of bases with Skywest say if I wanted Denver or Portland?

Thanks for your responses Havick

[Power]

gojet (like jetgo in oz, funny that) is a crappy company.

[havick]

They are my option by choice thankfully.

So why avoid gojet? I am at the pointy end of making a D so any info would be helpful.

What the chances of getting your pick of bases with Skywest say if I wanted Denver or Portland?

Thanks for your responses Havick

Everyone is leaving gojet like rats abandoning a sinking ship if that isn’t an indicator of a company I don’t know what is.

[Professional Amateur]

Yeah.... Read all that..... Going to give go jet a miss.

Is it true you need to front up to a FAA field office to get your licence converted?!

Mesa won't give you a job offer untill you have an FAA licence so it means a trip to the USA PRIOR to knowing if you can work for them. Is there a work around at all?

Perhaps Skywest offers conditional employment.

[havick]

Yeah.... Read all that..... Going to give go jet a miss.

Is it true you need to front up to a FAA field office to get your licence converted?!

Mesa won't give you a job offer untill you have an FAA licence so it means a trip to the USA PRIOR to knowing if you can work for them. Is there a work around at all?

Perhaps Skywest offers conditional employment.

skywest will hire you and do you FAA license conversion in house

[umop apisdn]

They are my option by choice thankfully.

So why avoid gojet? I am at the pointy end of making a D so any info would be helpful.

What the chances of getting your pick of bases with Skywest say if I wanted Denver or Portland?

Thanks for your responses Havick

You'll be able to hold Denver in a relatively short amount of time on the CRJ, a fair bit longer, i"d say on the ERJ, and PDX is only an ERJ base which is really senior. You'd be waiting a while to get into there.

CRJ bases out of training usually rotate between Atlanta, Detroit, Chicago and Minneapolis.

ERJ bases I'm less sure about but I'd say Chicago or La Guardia

Yeah.... Read all that..... Going to give go jet a miss.

Is it true you need to front up to a FAA field office to get your licence converted?!

Mesa won't give you a job offer untill you have an FAA licence so it means a trip to the USA PRIOR to knowing if you can work for them. Is there a work around at all?

Perhaps Skywest offers conditional employment.

So you'll get hired by Skywest in Aus, get everything ready and join a class. You do not need to have a valid licence to participate in sim training, you don't need to go to an FSDO. Just make sure you have your verification letter, then when you do you last sim in training, which is essentially a flight test, your licence will get converted at that point to a full FAA ATP.

[Professional Amateur]

Good gouge, thanks nmop. So that's the letter from casa? Simply apply to casa, have it sent to my address then take it with me?

If mesa wants the letter first then I suspect they aren't getting many takers on the E3 visa!

Why do people like erj over crj? Seems to be a big skew.

[havick]

Good gouge, thanks nmop. So that's the letter from casa? Simply apply to casa, have it sent to my address then take it with me?

If mesa wants the letter first then I suspect they aren't getting many takers on the E3 visa!

Why do people like erj over crj? Seems to be a big skew.

you have to apply to the FAA for the letter of verification (no cost), details are on the FAA website.

then once the FAA get the ball rolling you fill in a casa form giving authority to release your information and pay a fee to casa.

[Seagull201]

Quote:

"So you'll get hired by Skywest in Aus, get everything ready and join a class. You do not need to have a valid licence to participate in sim training, you don't need to go to an FSDO. Just make sure you have your verification letter, then when you do you last sim in training, which is essentially a flight test, your licence will get converted at that point to a full FAA ATP."
**It's worthwhile mentioning, the ATP exam (single exam), must be passed, prior to getting the full FAA ATPL.

[havick]

Quote:

"So you'll get hired by Skywest in Aus, get everything ready and join a class. You do not need to have a valid licence to participate in sim training, you don't need to go to an FSDO. Just make sure you have your verification letter, then when you do you last sim in training, which is essentially a flight test, your licence will get converted at that point to a full FAA ATP."
**It's worthwhile mentioning, the ATP exam (single exam), must be passed, prior to getting the full FAA ATPL.

uhhhh what are you talking about? I never did any single engine written or flight test at all.

my aussie CPL went straight over to an FAA ATP-MEL. I don’t have any single engine fixed wing ratings on my FAA certificate.

[Seagull201]

I'm referring to, that an applicant needs to pass the ATP written exam, prior to the issue of an FAA ATPL (license) (multi engine).

The FAA ATPL written exam is a single exam, whilst the Australian ATPL written, is 7 separate exams.

A person can be offered a job with a regional, travel to the U.S and complete all the required airline sim training and check flight,
but the FAA ATP written exam, has to be passed, for the issue of an FAA ATPL (license).

I'm absolutely sure this correct!

[havick]

I'm referring to, that an applicant needs to pass the ATP written exam, prior to the issue of an FAA ATPL (license) (multi engine).

The FAA ATPL written exam is a single exam, whilst the Australian ATPL written, is 7 separate exams.

A person can be offered a job with a regional, travel to the U.S and complete all the required airline sim training and check flight,
but the FAA ATP written exam, has to be passed, for the issue of an FAA ATPL (license).

I'm absolutely sure this correct!

yes this is correct. You also have to do an ATP-CTP course (provided by the Regional) prior to taking the ATP-MEL written test and then you can do the flight portion in the Sim so long as you have a current letter of validation in hand along with an FAA Medical not to
mention the TSA background checks for both the atp-ctp course and the initial type training on the aircraft type st your regional.

your terminology is slightly off which makes your post easy to misinterpret

[Global Aviator]

Here’s a question for you experienced guys in the states.

What if a bloke had a FAA ATP, couple thousand command in multi crew airliner.

No doubt still need to join at the bottom of the seniority list. The question is would the regionals be interested and is there an age limit? Without having to do the ATP, just a type rating?

Looking at the reverse of people looking at heading this way for the experience, as such which regionals would prefer most relaxed lifestyle options?

[havick]

Here’s a question for you experienced guys in the states.

What if a bloke had a FAA ATP, couple thousand command in multi crew airliner.

No doubt still need to join at the bottom of the seniority list. The question is would the regionals be interested and is there an age limit? Without having to do the ATP, just a type rating?

Looking at the reverse of people looking at heading this way for the experience, as such which regionals would prefer most relaxed lifestyle options?


to be honest the regionals ar this point could really care less about your experience so long as you meet the minimums for an ATP.

you still have to go through a full type rating course regardless.

[bafanguy]

Global Aviator,

Having an FAA ATP and air carrier experience is a real plus. And I'd guess your age is more of an asset than liability.

Since you have an FAA ticket, what kind of flying were you doing when you got it ? Did any of the time count under FAR 121.436 ? It would speed up your ability to hold a captain spot at a regional.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/121.436

[Seagull201]

The latest CommutAir advertisement posted today (Friday) on the afap website, seeking OZ pilots for the EMB145,
to commence type training in the next course.

It's interesting to note, there's additional information specified in relation to the E3 Visa requirements:

**CommutAir is now accepting applications from Australian pilots eligible for an E-3 Visa. E-3 Visa applicants must meet all hiring and Visa requirements prior to hire.

**E-3 Visa Applicant Requirements

Must be an Australian national
Must possess the necessary academic or other qualifying credentials (i.e. bachelor’s degree or equivalent work experience)
Must be at least 23 years of age

[bafanguy]

So, from the US Embassy in Canberra, this info re E3 qualifications. Are those E3s coming North, but without a 4 year degree, actually having to show 12 years aviation experience to qualify ? Is that the actual experience people are confronted with lately ?:

I do not hold a bachelor’s degree or higher. Can I apply for the E-3 visa based on my work experience?

• U.S. Code of Federal Regulations, 8 CFR 214.2(h)(4)(iii)(D), describes the kind and amount of experience which can be used to establish the equivalency of a university degree. As a guide, three years of professional experience may generally be used as a substitute for each year of university-level educatio. This means you would need to show 12 years experience in the field you are applying to work in. During their visa interviews, applicants for U.S. work visas should be prepared to provide documentation outlining their work history, education, and training. A consular officer will determine whether the
educational and employment information provided meets the eligibility requirements for a U.S. visa.

https://web.archive.org/web/20111028105502/http://canberra.usembassy.gov/e3visa/qualifying.html

[josephfeatherweight]

A consular officer will determine whether the educational and employment information provided meets the eligibility requirements for a U.S. visa.
Just gotta make sure you meet the right "consular officer" and that they had a good weekend...

[stormfury]

Just gotta make sure you meet the right "consular officer" and that they had a good weekend...

These might help too.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/747x232/49ab6a31_a42e_40d6_bcfe_7c9ddf9404ee_ce75c6985ecf8b98be2bb93 b8913ad999436d66c.png

[umop apisdn]

So, from the US Embassy in Canberra, this info re E3 qualifications. Are those E3s coming North, but without a 4 year degree, actually having to show 12 years aviation experience to qualify ? Is that the actual experience people are confronted with lately ?

There has been somewhat of what seems to be a crackdown on this. Some consular workers are really easy to get by and others are not. I was lucky that I actually have a degree, but when I went they said "why are you applying for the E3 visa?"

"i have the relevant qualifications and a job offer from Skywest, would you like to see?"

"Your visa is approved, next!" without actually looking at everything.

I had many friends get in around the same time with no degree and none of them blinked an eye.

**It's worthwhile mentioning, the ATP exam (single exam), must be passed, prior to getting the full FAA ATPL.

Correct. I did not mention this because it's almost like a non event. CTP does not prepare you for this exam. You need to get Sheppard air and study. If you follow their method and get below 90% on the test, which has 120 questions and needs 70% to pass, you get your $80 back. So yeah, they pretty much guarantee a pass. Good advice is to study before CTP, even do it in Aus, then just brush up during CTP. Once you have your CTP certificate you can book in and take the test. The is a place right across from the hotel where you can do it in Salt Lake.

Yeah, it's a joke. No stress of flight planning. Pretty much government enabled cheating due to the freedom of information act. Sheppard Air doesn't teach you the theory, but the answers to every question in the question bank. To come out the other side with a full ICAO ATPL is pretty nice.

What if a bloke had a FAA ATP, couple thousand command in multi crew airliner.

You'll get in no worries, but just go to the bottom of the list and have to deal with less pay than what you/re probably used to. You need 1000 hours 121 time before you can upgrade.

[bafanguy]

Some consular workers are really easy to get by and others are not.

I had many friends get in around the same time with no degree and none of them blinked an eye.

I wondered if there might be some "variation" from one consulate to another. For those without a degree, do they actually have to have 12 years industry experience ? I wouldn't expect someone with 1500-2000 hours to have 12 years in the industry.

Can you count training years in the total time in industry ?

[vee1-rotate]

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but it's all well and good that companies are requiring you to hold a bachelors degree ... however, what they aren't stating it seems is that the degree has to be specific to the job you are applying for in the US. I'm going on my 5th E3 renewal in a non-flying aviation job, so I know a few things about the E3.

You can't just have any bachelors degree ... a degree in general business management, or arts etc etc will not pass with the consulate if you are going for a flying position. So in this case, you must have some kind of aviation degree. Granted it seems from this thread, some have been able to pass through the consulate interview either without a degree, or with a different degree, however I would be VERY careful. There is a very real chance that although you may pass the consulate interview and be given an E3, if you have given false information or they realize they have made a mistake in approving you, your E3 can be revoked very easily at any time. Not something you want happening if you have just signed a lease on a car or apartment, spent thousands of dollars setting yourself up in the US etc.

The USCIS and Department of Labor are constantly doing inspections of workplaces and of employees to ensure they are following the guidelines of their E3s (and all work visas for that matter), and will go through all your paperwork. Not something to screw with particularly with the current political climate.

[LostWanderer]

The USCIS and Department of Labor are constantly doing inspections of workplaces and of employees to ensure they are following the guidelines of their E3s (and all work visas for that matter), and will go through all your paperwork. Not something to screw with particularly with the current political climate.

Periodic lurker here, first poster. I have been following this thread for awhile with interest but feel compelled to add my 2 cents. Vee1 is quite correct, If you don't have a bachelors in aviation or the required years of industry experience in lieu of said degree then please be extra extra careful with this process guys! As mentioned above, it's a pretty dangerous game to play at the moment. I know for a fact that these E3 visas being granted for pilots (and possibly other industries) are starting to come under much more scrutiny by the consulates and likely other departments - as Mr/Ms Vee1 says, audits can and do happen. Interestingly, I believe I have even read a few people mention recruitment at a few airlines are starting to tighten the bolts a little too in the requirement for a degree or 12 years flying experience.

My understanding is airlines can file the paperwork for anyone to take to a consulate, but from my experience - also a number of renewals under my belt - its on you to be honest about your qualifications and if you actually meet the specific E3 requirements at the end of the day. It's really not a good idea to just hope you get an easy consulate staff member.

Gosh I hate being negative, be really great having more Aussies flying in the US but play it safe lads, you don't want be looking over your shoulder all the time wondering if your US adventure is coming to a premature end. Can be an extremely costly exercise!

[Professional Amateur]

Do you think the music is about to stop? It all seemed too good to be true! You never know what happens behind closed doors when beuracrats/diplomats talk....after being pressured by industry....... Yeah I believe in conspiracies.

[bafanguy]

If you don't have a bachelors in aviation or the required years of industry experience in lieu of said degree then please be extra extra careful with this process guys! Interestingly, I believe I have even read a few people mention recruitment at a few airlines are starting to tighten the bolts a little too in the requirement for a degree or 12 years flying experience.

My understanding is airlines can file the paperwork for anyone to take to a consulate...its on you to be honest about your qualifications and if you actually meet the specific E3 requirements at the end of the day. It's really not a good idea to just hope you get an easy consulate staff member.

LW,

Interesting and it raises another question or two:

(1) If an "aviation" degree is the only one meeting the criteria for an E3, does this put non-av degree holders in the same category as those with no degree at all, leaving time in the industry as the sole determining E3 criterion ?

(2) How is the "time in the industry" being calculated ? Paid, professional years only...training years + paid, working years ?

"...airlines can file the paperwork for anyone to take to a consulate..."...true enough. But it's the responsibility of the consulate to pass judgement on quals presented; applicants only have what they have. This looks like government makes the mistake...and YOU get punished for it. Yet another reason why the kakistocracy is never to be trusted.

Having E3s come here and fly has been a win-win deal. I automatically assume applicants have presented themselves honestly to a consulate. It'd be a shame to have this thing upended by actions of incompetent government cubicle droids but I won't be surprised if it is.

[pilotchute]

Anything is possible with a good legal team. Melania trump got a H1B visa.

I think the outcome of your E3 application is only as good as your immigration lawyer.

Legal arguments can twist anything you like.

[bafanguy]

Anything is possible with a good legal team. Melania trump got a H1B visa.

I think the outcome of your E3 application is only as good as your immigration lawyer.

I think Melania runs with much "faster horses" than lowly airline pilots.

Do people getting visas under the aegis of a US regional airline even have an immigration lawyer ?

[LostWanderer]

LW,

Interesting and it raises another question or two:

(1) If an "aviation" degree is the only one meeting the criteria for an E3, does this put non-av degree holders in the same category as those with no degree at all, leaving time in the industry as the sole determining E3 criterion ?

(2) How is the "time in the industry" being calculated ? Paid, professional years only...training years + paid, working years ?

"...airlines can file the paperwork for anyone to take to a consulate..."...true enough. But it's the responsibility of the consulate to pass judgement on quals presented; applicants only have what they have. This looks like government makes the mistake...and YOU get punished for it. Yet another reason why the kakistocracy is never to be trusted.

I'm not an absolute expert by any means but my understanding is that if all procedures are being followed as written and as a number of consulate staff are now operating then: 1 - Correct, if no aviation degree, time in industry is what you need. (The staff member I saw last time and fairly recently was extremely thorough on seeing these items) And 2 - Time in industry is time you have been a paid, working commercial pilot. Which I know a number folks have had to start to back up with a letter of service on company letterhead from their respective former employers etc...

Professional Amateur - I don't think the music is anywhere near stopping thankfully. I just suspect there will now be a stronger emphasis on your actual qualifications in the future for applicants. There are certainly a huge amount more consulate rejections going on now for applicants than there was 6-12 month ago. But who knows, things change so quickly based on who's in office and what the current political climate is...unfortunately at the moment neither are too positive when it comes to immigration matters!

[VH DSJ]

I think Melania runs with much "faster horses" than lowly airline pilots.

Do people getting visas under the aegis of a US regional airline even have an immigration lawyer ?

Yes they now do. The airline I'm at uses a subcontractor to do all this and the subcontractor engages an immigration attorney to get the paper work together. I'm in the process of renewing my E3 visa. Can't believe it's been two years since I got my initial E3 issued.

[vee1-rotate]

"...airlines can file the paperwork for anyone to take to a consulate..."...true enough. But it's the responsibility of the consulate to pass judgement on quals presented; applicants only have what they have. This looks like government makes the mistake...and YOU get punished for it. Yet another reason why the kakistocracy is never to be trusted.


Correct ... but when the government makes the rules, they can change/break/do whatever they want with them as they see fit. Having read back through this thread about guys saying they got through the system without the stated requirements, it makes me shudder to think how risky that is.

1 thing I am vary wary of being over here in the US, is if you get a red mark on your record (whether it be your fault, the consulates fault for approving you when they shouldn't have) this can create all kinds of problems trying to get back over here on another work visa (even if all your ducks are in a row) or even as a tourist.

[vee1-rotate]

Anything is possible with a good legal team. Melania trump got a H1B visa.

I think the outcome of your E3 application is only as good as your immigration lawyer.

Legal arguments can twist anything you like.

I wouldn't risk this as your backup ... I had to go and see an immigration attorney once for a small paperwork issue here, and I was quoted a couple thousand as they usually charge in a lump sum (instead of hourly).

If the company you're working for has an immigration attorney, all well and good but do you really think they are going to put this person to work on your case for an extended period of time if the issue is that complex ? Unless you have top gun skills and are 1-of-a-kind pilot, highly unlikely.

[LostWanderer]

Correct ... but when the government makes the rules, they can change/break/do whatever they want with them as they see fit. Having read back through this thread about guys saying they got through the system without the stated requirements, it makes me shudder to think how risky that is.

1 thing I am vary wary of being over here in the US, is if you get a red mark on your record (whether it be your fault, the consulates fault for approving you when they shouldn't have) this can create all kinds of problems trying to get back over here on another work visa (even if all your ducks are in a row) or even as a tourist.

Bingo. Just be fully aware of the score before you jump head first in to the E3 swimming pool :) As previously mentioned - and I may have been one of the few, I was required to provide evidence of education AND industry experience last time before I was approved, as a number of other folks have too that I know of. It was far from one of these "10 second interviews" some have had some time back.

I know of one airline here that has taken use of a third party to prepare paperwork, not sure if it is same one DSJ mentioned...I can't say I know a lot about that mob but from the folks I know there who are in the process...it sounds like its not impressing them much and is far from a well oiled machine.

Immigration/visa laws and conditions in the US really need to be followed to the letter, they take it extremely seriously. Sadly it will be the applicant that is punished more than the person who approves the visa if happens to go pear shaped. You sure don't want to get on the bad side of Uncle Sam! Good luck to all though! Play it safe guys and gals.

[bafanguy]

Sadly it will be the applicant that is punished more than the person who approves the visa if happens to go pear shaped. You sure don't want to get on the bad side of Uncle Sam! Good luck to all though! Play it safe guys and gals.

Yep, they'll crush you like a bug...and think nothing of it. Sure hope this doesn't stop our Aussie cousins from migrating north. The regional need will continue.

[Seagull201]

Hi guys,
I hope you are all doing well! I have had a ton of inquiries from Aussie from all around the world asking about SkyWest. I have been with the company just short of two years now and was fortunate enough to be the first E3 visa pilot at any US airline. I cannot speak highly enough of how great my work/lifestyle is with SkyWest for my wife, little one and myself. Feel free to PM with any questions.
Skywest only just placed the ad on AFAP within the last 24 hours. SkyWest are eager to recruit Australian pilots who meet the E3 and FAA ATP requirements. Long story short, you do not need a degree in aviation, but you need 12 years work experience equivalent. How this works? For ever year of tertiary education (CPL, CIR, META, ATPL, etc) equates to 3 years work experience. So lets say you have been working for 6 years, and it took you 2 years of training to obtain your certificates full time, then you meet the requirements. That being said, a degree obviously covers this requirement without any further experience required but the degree must major in aviation. I am more than happy to help look at anyones situation who is looking to join Skywest.

I have already received a fair few guys emails and have contacted them directly. Feel free to give me a shout.

Thanks once again for all those interested!


Reading back through the posts on this topic, i'd like to know whether the above assumption still applies or is correct?

Does flying training to CPL/I.R/ATPL theory subjects, still count as 2 years, of the so called "4 year degree?"

Meaning,if a person "doesn't have a degree", the 2 years flying training (counts as 2 years of a degree),and 6 years of employment as a pilot,
covers the remaining 2 years of a degree (3 years work experience equals 1 year of a degree).

[Flyboy1987]

Reading back through the posts on this topic, i'd like to know whether the above assumption still applies or is correct?

Does flying training to CPL/I.R/ATPL theory subjects, still count as 2 years, of the so called "4 year degree?"

Meaning,if a person "doesn't have a degree", the 2 years flying training (counts as 2 years of a degree),and 6 years of employment as a pilot,
covers the remaining 2 years of a degree (3 years work experience equals 1 year of a degree).

i have mates with no degree and 3 years of seasonal ga work who got in?

[vee1-rotate]

i have mates with no degree and 3 years of seasonal ga work who got in?


These are the guys myself and LostWanderer are talking about above ....

[CockpitJunkie]

Australian regionals are short, so why go to USA? Skywest USA paying around $37 per flight hour.

[pilotchute]

Australian regionals aren't short. Qlink get plenty of applicants every month. Any lack of line pilots in an Australian airline is due to lack of sims or training staff. Not pilots.

[havick]

Australian regionals are short, so why go to USA? Skywest USA paying around $37 per flight hour.

looks like you haven’t read the thread at all

[Daddy Fantastic]

Australian regionals are short, so why go to USA? Skywest USA paying around $37 per flight hour.

Embraer 175 or CRJ 700/900 twin jet time flying in and out of the busiest airports in the world v REX or Sharp airlines on a $H!TTY metro or Saab 340

OKAAAAAAYYY......

[Karunch]

Australian regionals are short, so why go to USA? Skywest USA paying around $37 per flight hour.

Exactly the type of pilot who would benefit from the experience.

[Seagull201]

I've read an in depth news article today, from a US website called "aircraft pilot".
Apparently, the pilot shortage in the U.S regionals is starting to become so severe.

The U.S needs 3,600 new pilots a year now, and every year, MOSTLY in the regionals,
that figure will increase to over 4,000 new pilots needed per year, in 5 years time.

In 10 years time, up to 40% of current airline Captains will retire.
There is a current push, to increase the retirement age from 65 to 67, it appears, it's likely to happen.

[DUXNUTZ]

I've read an in depth news article today, from a US website called "aircraft pilot".
Apparently, the pilot shortage in the U.S regionals is starting to become so severe.

The U.S needs 3,600 new pilots a year now, and every year, MOSTLY in the regionals,
that figure will increase to over 4,000 new pilots needed per year, in 5 years time.

In 10 years time, up to 40% of current airline Captains will retire.
There is a current push, to increase the retirement age from 65 to 67, it appears, it's likely to happen.


Great if it comes off. Delta/United/Southwest have all cut back recruitment suddenly for reasons unknown but possibly due increasing fuel prices. I’m very skeptical still of the shortage crisis holding up, if it was coming to roost Delta, FedEx etc would have to dumb down their nasa style interviews somewhat.

[pilotchute]

Syria has restarted oil production so the prices will drop again soon.

[havick]

Great if it comes off. Delta/United/Southwest have all cut back recruitment suddenly for reasons unknown but possibly due increasing fuel prices. I’m very skeptical still of the shortage crisis holding up, if it was coming to roost Delta, FedEx etc would have to dumb down their nasa style interviews somewhat.

thats simply due to logjam of training departments and pilots changing fleet types as they are retired (md80’s as an example). The number of retirements remain the same, hiring will be even more critical as s result if the training backlogs.

[umop apisdn]

Embraer 175 or CRJ 700/900 twin jet time flying in and out of the busiest airports in the world v REX or Sharp airlines on a $H!TTY metro or Saab 340

OKAAAAAAYYY......

Love how you omitted the CRJ 200!

[pilotchute]

Because the Metro is such a superior aircraft compared to the CRJ200!

[Seagull201]

The news article i was reading the other day on my phone, has been found and posted under the thread of "pilot shortage"(Aust &NZ section).
by Captain Curtain Twitcher.
It's interesting reading.

[kellykelpie]

It’s great to see Curtain is not keeping us in the dark 👹

[bafanguy]

Latest call for Aussies from CommutAir, dated June 5:


https://www.latestpilotjobs.com/jobs/view/id/409.html

OK...I screwed up the link. Try this one. Anyone talk to Commutair recently ? They still have a page about E-3s:

E-3 Visa ? Home Page (http://www.flycommutair.com/e-3-visa/)

[DropYourSocks]

Hi, I am sharing this info for anyone considering making the move over. This excert was received from a recruiter:


Thank you for applying to the First Officer position with xxxx Airlines! Before we start the interview process we wanted to clarify our status on the E3 Visa application. This is a fairly arduous undertaking and can take a couple of months to process. We will help submit the documentation needed for the E3 visa process. Once the visa is approved, there is a process to be eligible for employment in the United States. This includes traveling to the country prior to your potential class date, applying for a social security card (can take up to 3 weeks), and obtaining a United States phone number and address. Xxxx will not provide travel to the States, nor lodging for any of this process prior to ground school or CTP training.

It is worth considering that other E3 regionals will provide flights and accom for the entire period it takes to establish your life here, as well as during your ATP CTP. Ro not underestimate the cost of having to pay for it yourself while not drawing a salary. Also, a very few of the E3 regionals only provide dual occupancy hotel rooms during training, don't have signing bonuses etc.

When it comes to doing your own research, I found airlinepilotforums.com and its airline data pages to be an invaluable resource in making an informed decision.

Good hunting,

DropYourSocks

[Kenny]

Great if it comes off. Delta/United/Southwest have all cut back recruitment suddenly for reasons unknown but possibly due increasing fuel prices. I’m very skeptical still of the shortage crisis holding up, if it was coming to roost Delta, FedEx etc would have to dumb down their nasa style interviews somewhat.


As far as UAL is concerned, we do 99% of our training at the main training center in DEN and for the last, god knows how long, it’s been undergoing a complete refurbishment. It’s been a bomb site for at least the last 2 years and is only now, starting to look like it should. Together with the 747 retirements and training of those crews, there’s been a huge bottleneck in the training pipeline. Also, we’ve streamlined the scheduling of flights and departure/arrival banks at the hubs, which has meant the aircraft are flying more, with less overall new pilots needed.

UAL may see DAL hiring numbers but from the numbers I’ve seen, I doubt it. This all means sh1t if the trade war goes nuclear. A large proportion of our intl. operation is to mainland China and if that went bye bye, I’m pretty sure I’d be out on the street and I’ve been here 3 years.

Oh...and if age 67 passes, it’ll be a disaster to a lot of careers.

[DUXNUTZ]

As far as UAL is concerned, we do 99% of our training at the main training center in DEN and for the last, god knows how long, it’s been undergoing a complete refurbishment. It’s been a bomb site for at least the last 2 years and is only now, starting to look like it should. Together with the 747 retirements and training of those crews, there’s been a huge bottleneck in the training pipeline. Also, we’ve streamlined the scheduling of flights and departure/arrival banks at the hubs, which has meant the aircraft are flying more, with less overall new pilots needed.

UAL may see DAL hiring numbers but from the numbers I’ve seen, I doubt it. This all means sh1t if the trade war goes nuclear. A large proportion of our intl. operation is to mainland China and if that went bye bye, I’m pretty sure I’d be out on the street and I’ve been here 3 years.

Oh...and if age 67 passes, it’ll be a disaster to a lot of careers.

Had an inspector in the jump the other day. He seems pretty keen on 2020 as some kind of implementation or rule change date for age 67. Seems a bit soon. The way everyone is freaking about retirements and the pool drying up makes me nervous though.

[bafanguy]

Where are things at regarding E3 visas these days ?

I've been curious about that too. I haven't seen any statement from the government indicating how the E3 quals are being handled or if they've tightened the screws on them.

[VH DSJ]

I've been curious about that too. I haven't seen any statement from the government indicating how the E3 quals are being handled or if they've tightened the screws on them.

People are still being granted the E3 and the E3R (renewal) visas without needing a university degree nor 12 years of industry experience. One mate just arrived a few weeks ago, and another is on their way here.

[havick]

People are still being granted the E3 and the E3R (renewal) visas without the needing a university degree nor 12 years of industry experience. One mate just arrived a few weeks ago, and another is on their way here.

yah it sounds like pot luck on the consulate interviewer on how strict they are.

whatever you do, do NOT misrepresent anything to the consulate trying to get yourself over the line as you may end up with an entry ban to the US.

[umop apisdn]

Also remember that arriving more than 10 days prior to work is a violation your visa terms.

​​​​​​You can get everything done in 10 days and can begin "work" if you have applied for a social security card.

[Ralphi]

Yes, it does take close to 10 days to get the actual Social “card” posted out to you.. HOWEVER it is considerably faster (I was told overnight and mine was ready in 3 days which was the earliest I could check): if you revisit the SS admin office a second time again after your initial application they can then release your actual SS number to you.

To start work the airline just needs the SS number, not a copy of the card so this can speed things up quite a bit.

Cheers Ralphi

[Ralphi]

Fly AMERICA - Goat stew to gumbo

So, like dozens of my countrypeople pilots I am an Aussie pilot having heard and responded to the call coming from across the Pacific “please come fly for us, we will provide you with a ATP and type rating” ok sounds good. Some opportunities go further “hey you know what we will provide you with flights to and from the USA and a healthy signing bonus to boot” ok sounds even better.

So having always enjoyed traveling and with a like minded partner I signed on the dotted line and voila am now sitting enjoying some local goat stew from Curacao, to be shortly followed by Gumbo as I head to New Orleans tomorrow on non revenue flights business class. My circumstance has allowed three distinct “holidays”between the training slots due to the backlog in training with my particular airline, each of these whilst being paid and being able to fly to 2/3 of the world for mere pennies.

The USA is a monster, a giant economy of which the airlinel sector is a integral cog. Coming out of the little Aussie market I was blown away with just how many career opportunities are available as long as you met the criteria of 1500 hours, requisite industry experience and formal training in aviation. A lot of my peers actually can’t believe that they have just been offered a job to fly a regional jet when they get the first offer and I have seen them jump at that. My advice would be to remember that the scare commodity now is actually the PILOT = you, so the first offer may not be best fit, take your time to decide what you really want in terms or things like start date, etc. I have had no problem in employers accommodating my requests.

Personally I took the second offer as this allowed the best fit for me. Having two consecutive summers, instead of consecutive winters was an easier transition. Having better travel benefits to relocate myself and family and having more certainty as to which city I would be based in were all part of my decision. As I have already said the US market is big enough to allow you the luxury of this type of choice.

So ATP and type rating in hand I reflect on the journey last few months. The US certainly presents friendly skies to the Aussie with a professional attitude. I found the breaks in my training allowed my to be best prepared in the indoc, systems, other ground school and simulator phases of training and thereby reduced the stress factors associated with the steep learning curve of the first jet. My peers, Captains I was paired in training, instructors and guys and gals I met whilst jump-seating to date have been “true gentlemen and women of the skies”.

The move to a new country is a giant step in life, but it is one through which we can really develop our boundaries and I would completely recommend it after you perform some in depth homework on your new employer. I personally know many pilots at both the number 1 employer of Oz pilots and the second and third place getters in terms of numbers flying there.

The match you make will really be a big part of your experience, is it union or non union, base certainty, time on reserve, benefits like travel and when these are available, time to upgrade, how they treat their staff, etc, etc and etc. the general feedback I have from the primary choices made by Aussies is good to great, but there are some less attractive options if you don’t do the homework. The resources on the web are immense and fully allow you to get this knowledge with little effort. As already pointed out above a few hours on US specific forums like airlinepilotforums will pay big dividends in making the right decision.

I personally have no regrets whatsoever and have only very minor gripes with my choice, these are far outweighed by the quality of training, immediate benefits and team I now work within.

My info gathering was very much assisted by this forum and stars like Havick, bafanguy et al and I thank you for helping get started on the journey. Safe Landings I want to commend you on your attitude, which in my view is the single most import aspect to getting through training.

I will post an update down the road with some more hours under the belt on the actual jet, feel free to pm me if you have queries on my journey.

Re the SSN release, I had to do it in a very particular way - they definetly won’t release it by phone and they won’t print it for you on the second visit, however the agent I had agreed to read it off the screen for me to write down as when generated it becomes “my information”. Agree it will come down to each agent and an big element of luck..

Cheers from Ewemerica, Ralphi

[bafanguy]

Ralphi,

Nice write up. Good to hear about a positive experience. Will you be able to upgrade when you get the 1,000 hours Part 121 time or will that take longer where you're flying ?

[Global Aviator]

A fantastic no bullsh@t post.

I take my hat of to you a who have given it a crack. What a great experience. As has been mentioned many times it’s all about personal choice.

I think I’ve said it before, go the USA route, get a command with a few thousand hours and the world opens as an expat pilot. The way things are going, hit China for 3/5 years (certainly not for everyone), invest well and retire.

Livin the dream. Well done guys.

I am still tossing up wether or not to hit Stateside!

[Professional Amateur]

Ralphi, An encouraging post. I am currently about 2 months out from pulling the trigger on the USA plan. Its a big uncertain step and your positive post on PPRuNe sure stands out as a beacon! I'm planning on basing in Detroit due to my wife's family location in Canada; I am certain that Detroit will be a good move for flying.

Flying jets in the USA sure does have merits over a Dash gig in Australia even if it is in the Q group. I think Q has a way to go with regards to transfers within the group etc before the positives outway the negatives of going to Link.

To anyone else out there: Does Skywest still take E3s? I have heard there has been a pushback / slowdown.

[DropYourSocks]

To those who are still weighing options before taking the plunge, for what it's worth these are a few of the big points I considered before making the move:

- where do I want to live? If you're in Sydney or Melbourne, cost of living is high compared to even a jet FO salary. If you want the US to perhaps be a permanent move, property and living in general is significantly cheaper stateside, and taxes are also lower. The way I justified the move with regard to where I live, is that my own family was always a day's travel from any of the major cities, so what difference is there if it's one or two days travel? So moving to the US is not that much more of a stretch for me at least.

- career prospects at home? If you want a command with any of the big 4, you are looking at 8-20 years to left seat, depending on where you go. Do you have the time to burn waiting for it? After all, the left seat is the salary range you need to live comfortably in Syd or Mel. Reaching your maximum earning potential is even further away if you have to stop off at a regional first.

- Once you have a left seat, what then? Where does your career progress to from there? Are you happy flying domestic for the rest of your career, or will there be widebody opportunities? Will move to another airline, or is this airline a career destination?

- If you make the move, how will it play out for you? If the move isn't permanent, then you get your command time and head back home to join a seniority list, or use that time as mentioned above to chase big money contract work.

- What if you can make the move permanent ie greencard? If you can stay in the US, then there is opportunity to progress your career quickly, get to a major, or if not at least a narrowbody for a LCC where command time varies ~3-5 years. If you want to make it permanent, how will you get that greencard? It is also worth comparing maximum earning potential for a US captain vs an Aussie captain as there is a big difference.

I would also like to point out that there are no right or wrong answers to what you should do, and I am not necessarily suggesting any option is better than the other. These are just some of the big questions that I had to ask myself honestly and try to answer realistically. Based on my answers I took the plunge. So far it has been a great adventure.

If anyone wants to chat about what it all involves, feel free to pm me.

Happy hunting.

Socks

[Seagull201]

To those who are still weighing options before taking the plunge, for what it's worth these are a few of the big points I considered before making the move:

- where do I want to live? If you're in Sydney or Melbourne, cost of living is high compared to even a jet FO salary. If you want the US to perhaps be a permanent move, property and living in general is significantly cheaper stateside, and taxes are also lower. The way I justified the move with regard to where I live, is that my own family was always a day's travel from any of the major cities, so what difference is there if it's one or two days travel? So moving to the US is not that much more of a stretch for me at least.

- career prospects at home? If you want a command with any of the big 4, you are looking at 8-20 years to left seat, depending on where you go. Do you have the time to burn waiting for it? After all, the left seat is the salary range you need to live comfortably in Syd or Mel. Reaching your maximum earning potential is even further away if you have to stop off at a regional first.

- Once you have a left seat, what then? Where does your career progress to from there? Are you happy flying domestic for the rest of your career, or will there be widebody opportunities? Will move to another airline, or is this airline a career destination?

- If you make the move, how will it play out for you? If the move isn't permanent, then you get your command time and head back home to join a seniority list, or use that time as mentioned above to chase big money contract work.

- What if you can make the move permanent ie greencard? If you can stay in the US, then there is opportunity to progress your career quickly, get to a major, or if not at least a narrowbody for a LCC where command time varies ~3-5 years. If you want to make it permanent, how will you get that greencard? It is also worth comparing maximum earning potential for a US captain vs an Aussie captain as there is a big difference.

I would also like to point out that there are no right or wrong answers to what you should do, and I am not necessarily suggesting any option is better than the other. These are just some of the big questions that I had to ask myself honestly and try to answer realistically. Based on my answers I took the plunge. So far it has been a great adventure.

If anyone wants to chat about what it all involves, feel free to pm me.

Happy hunting.

Socks

I've been following these posts for a while now and i've seen a lot of info on the U.S aviation scene.

Anyone that wants to go to the U.S and fly for a regional airline, should realise before they depart OZ, it's not a holiday going there,
it's intense work, flying in a first world aviation environment and airports, day, night, all types of weather.

If a person doesn't make the grade during their training, they will be sent home.

I can see the OZ pilots that are currently there with the regionals, being upgraded to Captain at their particular airline and their E3's extended every 2 years.

Unless a person gets a green card, i CANNOT see any OZ pilot progressing to the U.S majors or low cost airlines, it WON'T happen on an E3.

The tax system (weekly pay as you go, tax taken out of a pay) there, is virtually the equivalent to the OZ tax system here.

I can see OZ pilots that worked in U.S regionals, walking into Jetstar and Virgin, without anyone stopping them, no problems.

A REX Captain and Qlink Dash 8 F/O, earns 20% more than a U.S regional jet Captain.
Then again, we don't have EMB175/CRJ900 jets here in OZ or populations of greater than 350 million.

Anyone that wants to go to the U.S and fly should go but a person should bring a lot of cash with them.

[Brakerider]

I've been following these posts for a while now and i've seen a lot of info on the U.S aviation scene.

Anyone that wants to go to the U.S and fly for a regional airline, should realise before they depart OZ, it's not a holiday going there,
it's intense work, flying in a first world aviation environment and airports, day, night, all types of weather.

If a person doesn't make the grade during their training, they will be sent home.

I can see the OZ pilots that are currently there with the regionals, being upgraded to Captain at their particular airline and their E3's extended every 2 years.

Unless a person gets a green card, i CANNOT see any OZ pilot progressing to the U.S majors or low cost airlines, it WON'T happen on an E3.

The tax system (weekly pay as you go, tax taken out of a pay) there, is virtually the equivalent to the OZ tax system here.

I can see OZ pilots that worked in U.S regionals, walking into Jetstar and Virgin, without anyone stopping them, no problems.

A REX Captain and Qlink Dash 8 F/O, earns 20% more than a U.S regional jet Captain.
Then again, we don't have EMB175/CRJ900 jets here in OZ or populations of greater than 350 million.

Anyone that wants to go to the U.S and fly should go but a person should bring a lot of cash with them.

Username checks out.

[havick]

I've been following these posts for a while now and i've seen a lot of info on the U.S aviation scene.

Anyone that wants to go to the U.S and fly for a regional airline, should realise before they depart OZ, it's not a holiday going there,
it's intense work, flying in a first world aviation environment and airports, day, night, all types of weather.

If a person doesn't make the grade during their training, they will be sent home.

I can see the OZ pilots that are currently there with the regionals, being upgraded to Captain at their particular airline and their E3's extended every 2 years.

Unless a person gets a green card, i CANNOT see any OZ pilot progressing to the U.S majors or low cost airlines, it WON'T happen on an E3.

The tax system (weekly pay as you go, tax taken out of a pay) there, is virtually the equivalent to the OZ tax system here.

I can see OZ pilots that worked in U.S regionals, walking into Jetstar and Virgin, without anyone stopping them, no problems.

A REX Captain and Qlink Dash 8 F/O, earns 20% more than a U.S regional jet Captain.
Then again, we don't have EMB175/CRJ900 jets here in OZ or populations of greater than 350 million.

Anyone that wants to go to the U.S and fly should go but a person should bring a lot of cash with them.

just to compare apples with apples then, what does a REX and QLINK skipper earn? How long does it take to uograde frin first joining an Aussie regional?

[Australopithecus]

I've been following these posts for a while now and i've seen a lot of info on the U.S aviation scene.

Anyone that wants to go to the U.S and fly for a regional airline, should realise before they depart OZ, it's not a holiday going there,

Why should it be? Prospective regional pilots are seeking a job, not a paid vacation.

it's intense work, flying in a first world aviation environment and airports, day, night, all types of weather.

yup, just like aviation elsewhere, except with expert support. And ATC

If a person doesn't make the grade during their training, they will be sent home.


And that’s a problem how, exactly?


I can see the OZ pilots that are currently there with the regionals, being upgraded to Captain at their particular airline and their E3's extended every 2 years.

Unless a person gets a green card, i CANNOT see any OZ pilot progressing to the U.S majors or low cost airlines, it WON'T happen on an E3.


Sorry, bullsh*t. Your crystal ball came from Wallmart, same as mine. The industry has many champions in the halls of government, and no one can say what abenues to citizenship may develop.

The tax system (weekly pay as you go, tax taken out of a
pay) there, is virtually the equivalent to the OZ tax system here.

But at a much lower rate. Who cares about the mechanism?

I can see OZ pilots that worked in U.S regionals, walking into Jetstar and Virgin, without anyone stopping them, no problems.

But why would they? Why would you trade a palpable lifestyle advantage to be in one English speaking country over another?*

*well...sort of English. Y’all.

A REX Captain and Qlink Dash 8 F/O, earns 20% more than a U.S regional jet Captain.
Then again, we don't have EMB175/CRJ900 jets here in OZ or populations of greater than 350 million.

And what is their relative buying power after tax? I’d wager the US regional pilot gets a 30-40% better buying power.

Anyone that wants to go to the U.S and fly should go but a person should bring a lot of cash with them.

sour grapes?

[JPJP]

sour grapes?





Maybe. There’s so much incorrect information in his post, that it’s actually a disservice to people weighing their options. Which is a shame after people (including yourself) have spent the time to be informative.

I think everything Seagull201 knows about flying in the U.S. comes from the internet. Not by actually doing it, or knowing (in person, not the internet) someone who has done it.

Edited to add - if the PJN pay scale for Rex is even close to accurate; a new Captain on 2nd year pay at Skywest would make about 8% more than a top of pay scale Rex Captain. The Skywest Captain would pay substantially less tax.

[umop apisdn]

Anyone that wants to go to the U.S and fly should go but a person should bring a lot of cash with them.

Disagree with this. Sure a bit of capital is required to get yourself going, and it can be very helpful in securing a rental property when you have no established credit.

First year FO salary at Skywest is enough for myself and my wife live well and to go on the occasional holiday, just don't booze it up and / or eat out all the time and you'll be fine. If you come over with 1500 TT or more then you can expect to upgrade asap and leave the FO pay behind.

You're missing the major advantage over any Australian airline and that is the travel benefits. You can pretty much travel anywhere in the world for next to nothing, and anywhere in the USA for free. Once you have your pilot licence you can jumpseat on most US carriers, even cargo airlines.

[bafanguy]

...it's not a holiday going there,
it's intense work, flying in a first world aviation environment and airports, day, night, all types of weather.

If a person doesn't make the grade during their training, they will be sent home.

I can see the OZ pilots that are currently there with the regionals, being upgraded to Captain at their particular airline and their E3's extended every 2 years.

Unless a person gets a green card, i CANNOT see any OZ pilot progressing to the U.S majors or low cost airlines, it WON'T happen on an E3.

Seagull201,

You're right about several issues you listed.

The flying can be pretty intense particularly in the NE US in winter. Always cramming 10 lbs in a 5 lb can with winter just amplifying it all. I can't think of a better opportunity to get in trouble than KLGA or KDCA ( and many other airports) in winter. But, it's all good experience and a person should have a minimum of two of those under his belt before acting as PIC.

And, yes, they even send US citizens home if they can't cut the mustard.

I should hope that E3s will be upgraded when their turn comes and they've shown ability. The PIC time will look good on your CV.

As for moving beyond a regional as an E3, who knows what the Perfumed Princes of the Kackistocracy will do with immigration laws. But...as it stands now, a green card is required to make oneself eligible for an LCC or legacy carrier. And the competition for those spots is FIERCE and will continue to be forever. It's possible one could weave the Aussie magic on some of the local talent and marry into a green card. Then he'd be off the the races with a whole other slate of things to be frustrated about. Drop us a line when that happens and we'll provide that list. :ugh:

[Professional Amateur]

Seagull, Happy to take your opinions on board however I do disagree with them, I have done extensive research and what you have posted doesn't really add up. A few points I agree with though re transferring to a legacy.
Where are you flying at the moment?

Copy your points but....... There is massive advantages of flying a turbo fan 25-40T AC in a tougher environment than banging around in a Dash 8 on one of the flattest and benign continents on earth.

Re the pay.....yep that's income (I disagree with your premise re the amount (go read the EBAs..****e)) however it doesn't take into account costs. COL in the USA is far cheaper when it comes to daily amenities ie: car, fuel, food, rent, govt charges. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mac_Index (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mac_Index)

I'm pretty convinced its a good gig and WILL be flipping over there in the next two to three months.

Bafanguy,

Good point about the PIC in the NE USA. I have put a lot of thought into that considering I have zip experience with that cold stuff. I have zero plans on pushing that line unless I am fully comfortable with how it all works!

[Seagull201]

Seagull201,

You're right about several issues you listed.

The flying can be pretty intense particularly in the NE US in winter. Always cramming 10 lbs in a 5 lb can with winter just amplifying it all. I can't think of a better opportunity to get in trouble than KLGA or KDCA ( and many other airports) in winter. But, it's all good experience and a person should have a minimum of two of those under his belt before acting as PIC.

And, yes, they even send US citizens home if they can't cut the mustard.

I should hope that E3s will be upgraded when their turn comes and they've shown ability. The PIC time will look good on your CV.

As for moving beyond a regional as an E3, who knows what the Perfumed Princes of the Kackistocracy will do with immigration laws. But...as it stands now, a green card is required to make oneself eligible for an LCC or legacy carrier. And the competition for those spots is FIERCE and will continue to be forever. It's possible one could weave the Aussie magic on some of the local talent and marry into a green card. Then he'd be off the the races with a whole other slate of things to be frustrated about. Drop us a line when that happens and we'll provide that list. :ugh:


To clarify better what i was getting at before.

Some of you guys should be more realistic about your info.

1. There's a website called "airline pilot central" or "airline central'', if a person clicks under the banner of regionals,
a list of the U.S regional airlines will show up, there are a good 20 or so, which operate regional jets.
Out of the 20 or so listed regionals, at the moment, ONLY less than 4, are ACTIVELY E3 visa holders, others don't do it.

(please note: if i write something in capitals, i'm not shouting, just highlighting. Thanks)

2. You guys there should be realistic, there is NO flow path to the U.S MAJORS or L.C.C airlines at the moment, for OZ pilots on E3s.
A person has to be a U.S national, resident or greencard holder.
How someone wants to sought out getting an eventual greencard, is for the individual to workout.

3. A first and second year F/O on any regional jet is on somewhere 37 to 40 dollars an hour, say up to 40K a year.
That's not enough income for a person to rent their own unit, pay utilities/bills, groceries, travel to the airport.
That's why i previously mentioned, a person should bring cash with them, they'll need it.

4. The U.S tax system is very close to the Australian system, there were jobs advertised for multi engine flight instructors in the U.S recently,
pay was 48K, i did the figures on the U.S tax calculators, it worked out to be $750 a week net or $3,000 a month in the pocket.
The unit which was offered for rent was at $1,500, so the other 1,500 or 375 per week would cover living expenses.

The 48K figure was a reasonable income AND you guys there, want to tell me your 40K a year as an F/O, is comfortable?
i'd say you would be pretty stretched on 40K a year.

A Captain on a regional jet there would be on 70 to 75K a year, that's about $1,150 a week net or $4,600 a month in the pocket.
That's a reasonable income to start living comfortably.

5. Any OZ pilot that's at a regional, will more than likely be upgraded to Captain, as their turn comes AND have their E3 continuously renewed,
every 2 years, there will be NO FURTHER progression into the majors or LCC, unless you're a greencard holder.

6. Bafanguy: Thanks for your post, you picked the parts that i was exactly getting at, you got the eyes of an eagle, whilst others are trying to see through it.

[Professional Amateur]

Seagull,

Everything you say is correct and factual.

Yep, no Flow though to the LLCs etc.

Pay is pretty much bang on. BUT it doesn't include bonuses. The bonuses are handed out because the enterprise agreement allows for them to be handed out yet the agreements cant waiver from the base wage. (that's my understanding) IN some carriers there are yearly retention bonuses.

Yep on 45-50k it would be hard to eek out an existence. But, if you have a working partner.... it is do-able, esp considering the COL is cheaper.

You are also right about E3 regional numbers, to date I count six, being, Peidmont, Skywest, Commutair, PSA, Transstates and go Jet. You are absolutely right... check out Airline pilots Central.

Again, where are you flying? I only ask as it provides context to your opinion.

So, I agree with your facts but not your conclusions.

[havick]

To clarify better what i was getting at before.

Some of you guys should be more realistic about your info.

1. There's a website called "airline pilot central" or "airline central'', if a person clicks under the banner of regionals,
a list of the U.S regional airlines will show up, there are a good 20 or so, which operate regional jets.
Out of the 20 or so listed regionals, at the moment, ONLY less than 4, are ACTIVELY E3 visa holders, others don't do it.

(please note: if i write something in capitals, i'm not shouting, just highlighting. Thanks)

2. You guys there should be realistic, there is NO flow path to the U.S MAJORS or L.C.C airlines at the moment, for OZ pilots on E3s.
A person has to be a U.S national, resident or greencard holder.
How someone wants to sought out getting an eventual greencard, is for the individual to workout.

3. A first and second year F/O on any regional jet is on somewhere 37 to 40 dollars an hour, say up to 40K a year.
That's not enough income for a person to rent their own unit, pay utilities/bills, groceries, travel to the airport.
That's why i previously mentioned, a person should bring cash with them, they'll need it.

4. The U.S tax system is very close to the Australian system, there were jobs advertised for multi engine flight instructors in the U.S recently,
pay was 48K, i did the figures on the U.S tax calculators, it worked out to be $750 a week net or $3,000 a month in the pocket.
The unit which was offered for rent was at $1,500, so the other 1,500 or 375 per week would cover living expenses.

The 48K figure was a reasonable income AND you guys there, want to tell me your 40K a year as an F/O, is comfortable?
i'd say you would be pretty stretched on 40K a year.

A Captain on a regional jet there would be on 70 to 75K a year, that's about $1,150 a week net or $4,600 a month in the pocket.
That's a reasonable income to start living comfortably.

5. Any OZ pilot that's at a regional, will more than likely be upgraded to Captain, as their turn comes AND have their E3 continuously renewed,
every 2 years, there will be NO FURTHER progression into the majors or LCC, unless you're a greencard holder.

6. Bafanguy: Thanks for your post, you picked the parts that i was exactly getting at, you got the eyes of an eagle, whilst others are trying to see through it.


ummmm okkkay.

i earned 85k year one as a regional FO by hustling g and picking up as much OT as possible as well as bidding schedule conflicts and trading into sequences with check airman that I got displaced off but pay protected for.

I upgraded at 15 months with the company (flew 1000 hours in 12 months after getting checked to line).

Took a few months to get through CA training due to backlogs and a new LOA requiring 50 hours IOE before being released to the line in the left seat. So I’ll be on the line as a CA all said at roughly 20 months ish with the company.

I am recieving CA pay rates from when I was awarded the upgrade 2 months or so prior to going to upgrade training.

year two for me as a mixture of FO and CA rates will be approx 100k +

3rd year CA will be in the 110-120k ish range. Perhaps 130-135 if I do the check airman thing immediately at 6 months after upgrade.

check airman are making about 150k +

If all you are doing is gleaning your information from the APC forum then you really have no idea how the system works over here and how we credit hours for pay under the various contracts. only the dumb pilot make minimum guarantee.

And for info any of the Aussies on that joined Piedmont on an E3 will flow to mainline AA when their number comes up in 3-4 years from now. There’s nothing in their contract preventing them from flowing and mainline has concurred, the unions also support it. So good luck for those guys that took the punt. Also a good point to note is any Aussie joining Piedmont now still can flow to mainline AA as the contracts have not changed, except that the time to flown is getting exponentially worse as the queue is getting longer there.

as for me, I’m with Envoy NE USA based (albeit on a green card) and have about no more than 3 years left from now before I flow to mainline AA unless something better comes along in the meantime.

All this with the cost of living being wayyy cheaper over here. Short of trying to live in downtown new
york or SFO, your many goes a lot further than in Aus.

so you really have no grasp on the reality over here except for some back of the napkin calculations.

[LostWanderer]

"Unless a person gets a green card, i CANNOT see any OZ pilot progressing to the U.S majors or low cost airlines, it WON'T happen on an E3."

This is true :) ... but for the love of god, DO NOT try for the green card lottery while you are in the US on an E3 Visa unless you are very certain what you are doing and possibly have even seen an immigration lawyer. This can (in many cases) be viewed as showing intent to remain in the US and a direct contradiction to the requirements of an E3 visa. Do some research and you will find more than a few cases of people being sent home/denied renewals based on this. Some who have even been successful in the green card lottery have then lost both E3 and GC and were sent home. And yep, I have spoken to an immigration lawyer about this.

[JPJP]

Havick - Thank you.

Professional Amateur - Ignore that jiberish.

[DUXNUTZ]

Several of us in the US that left Aussie ‘majors’ to fly here. Less complicated system (more user friendly), more buying power on average and from all reports greater soft pay (work rules). Seniority for bidding and the ability to pick up/drop trips and change your schedule are also strong pluses. Don’t even get me started on the differences between management culture of Flight Data Monitoring vs FOQA; most Aussie skippers were terrified of it, here it’s a non issue and practically really changes the enjoyment factor of the job when you’re free to click everything off and hand fly.

[havick]

Can anyone accurately answer what a QLINK, Cobham and Rex FO and CA make on average?

additionally, how long from joining to upgraded to CA, and how likely is it to get a check airman position after upgrading and what’s the timeframe and pay increase associated with that?

There’s quite a few Aussies here bashing going to the US, but none have opened up about what Aussies are earning doing the same job. I’ve asked a few times but everyone has avoided answering the question.

[umop apisdn]

"Unless a person gets a green card, i CANNOT see any OZ pilot progressing to the U.S majors or low cost airlines, it WON'T happen on an E3."

This is true :) ... but for the love of god, DO NOT try for the green card lottery while you are in the US on an E3 Visa unless you are very certain what you are doing and possibly have even seen an immigration lawyer. This can (in many cases) be viewed as showing intent to remain in the US and a direct contradiction to the requirements of an E3 visa. Do some research and you will find more than a few cases of people being sent home/denied renewals based on this. Some who have even been successful in the green card lottery have then lost both E3 and GC and were sent home. And yep, I have spoken to an immigration lawyer about this.

Research? Where? How? I don't think I have heard of anyone having their E3 prematurely revoked for applying for the lottery, also haven't heard of anyone being rejected a renewal for applying for the lottery but missing out. I'd love to see your sources.

There are many ways to mess it up after you have been selected, and it has been incredibly stressful at some points. You can't leave the country after you submit an adjustment of status, or you will be considered to have abandoned your application and won't have a visa class to fall back on. If you leave with advanced parole and return, only to have the green card denied, then that is a legit way to prematurely lose your E3.

A mere entry in the green card lottery will not hurt. I know many who have entered, failed, and renewed their E3 with no issues. You can make a more educated decision after you get selected. It is not illegal or dodgy in any way to be on an E3 and get a green card from the lottery. If it was, it would be impossible and there wouldn't have been many Australians before me who have changed over successfully.

[vee1-rotate]

Research? Where? How? I don't think I have heard of anyone having their E3 prematurely revoked for applying for the lottery, also haven't heard of anyone being rejected a renewal for applying for the lottery but missing out. I'd love to see your sources.

There are many ways to mess it up after you have been selected, and it has been incredibly stressful at some points. You can't leave the country after you submit an adjustment of status, or you will be considered to have abandoned your application and won't have a visa class to fall back on. If you leave with advanced parole and return, only to have the green card denied, then that is a legit way to prematurely lose your E3.

A mere entry in the green card lottery will not hurt. I know many who have entered, failed, and renewed their E3 with no issues. You can make a more educated decision after you get selected. It is not illegal or dodgy in any way to be on an E3 and get a green card from the lottery. If it was, it would be impossible and there wouldn't have been many Australians before me who have changed over successfully.


Ultimately, a win in the green card lottery is just a ticket to "apply" for the green card itself. In no way is it a done deal that you will receive one. Hence why they always draw more than the allocated allotment of green cards ... because a lot of applications will be rejected.

Anyone can "apply" for the lottery however you still need to meet prerequisites after "winning". From what I've heard/read, a long, drawn out process once you do win, and this was a few years before the Dotard was in charge. Who knows what its like now.

And as you mention, the E3 is not a dual intent visa. Part of the application for the E3 requires you to show ties back to Australia, and evidence you will eventually return there. It's a pretty big risk to expect to transfer across to a green card from an E3, although it can has been done.

[umop apisdn]

Ultimately, a win in the green card lottery is just a ticket to "apply" for the green card itself. In no way is it a done deal that you will receive one. Hence why they always draw more than the allocated allotment of green cards ... because a lot of applications will be rejected.

Very true. The fun, stress and financial burdens really get started after you get selected.

Anyone can "apply" for the lottery however you still need to meet prerequisites after "winning". From what I've heard/read, a long, drawn out process once you do win, and this was a few years before the Dotard was in charge. Who knows what its like now.

Prerequisites are finishing highschool and having enough money to support yourself.

It's a pretty big risk to expect to transfer across to a green card from an E3, although it can has been done.

The lottery is won independent of any other visa. You can enter it in Australia, never having been to the USA before. Should one marry a US citizen on an E3, then get a green card, it's the same kind of thing. You are becoming eligible because of outside forces not related to your current visa. It's not really a risk to apply "from" and E3, you are not really converting anything, you are changing your status because your eligibility has changed, just like in the marriage situation.

The real risks are, if you win and begin the process, then they run out of visas or you for some reason get denied a green card, you will revert back to your E3 status. Having shown immigrant intent, you are unlikely to be given a renewal, as the E3 is nonimmigrant.

Once you apply to adjust status you can't leave the country, so no Canada or Mexico flying. You need to wait for the issuance of the green card before you can travel again or else they will consider your application abandoned. If you need to travel, you can apply for a document that lets you do it, but that will essentially cancel your E3. If you are unsuccessful in the green card, then you'll have to go home.

I decided that the risks were worth it because the USA is an amazing opportunity, winning the lottery is huge and I'm in a position where they will not run out of visas before I am processed.

[Global Aviator]

Can anyone accurately answer what a QLINK, Cobham and Rex FO and CA make on average?

additionally, how long from joining to upgraded to CA, and how likely is it to get a check airman position after upgrading and what’s the timeframe and pay increase associated with that?

There’s quite a few Aussies here bashing going to the US, but none have opened up about what Aussies are earning doing the same job. I’ve asked a few times but everyone has avoided answering the question.

There is a thread on here on Aussie wages.

Also - https://www.fwc.gov.au/search/document/agreement?search_api_views_fulltext=Cobham&display_switcher=%2Fsearch%2Fdocument%2Fagreement&created%5Bdate%5D=&created_1%5Bdate%5D=&matter_number=&field_fwc_doc_agreement_print_members=All&reference=&field_fwc_doc_agreement_AGR_AGMT_ID=&title=&old_pub_code=&state=All&industry=All&abn=&search_api_aggregation_1=&sort_bef_combine=search_api_relevance+DESC

[havick]

There is a thread on here on Aussie wages.

Also - https://www.fwc.gov.au/search/document/agreement?search_api_views_fulltext=Cobham&display_switcher=%2Fsearch%2Fdocument%2Fagreement&created%5Bdate%5D=&created_1%5Bdate%5D=&matter_number=&field_fwc_doc_agreement_print_members=All&reference=&field_fwc_doc_agreement_AGR_AGMT_ID=&title=&old_pub_code=&state=All&industry=All&abn=&search_api_aggregation_1=&sort_bef_combine=search_api_relevance+DESC

So what are regional CA’s in Australia earning on average then? The EBA is one thing, what guys are earning is another.

[Setright]

The definition of “specialty occupation” is one that requires:
- A theoretical and practical application of a body of specialized knowledge; and

- The attainment of a bachelor’s or higher degree in the specific specialty (or its equivalent) as a minimum for entry into the occupation in the United States.

First page of the E3 VISA requirements, doubt many would qualify.

The key here is ''or its equivalent''.

An ATPL is considered ''equivalent''.

[umop apisdn]

The key here is ''or its equivalent''.

An ATPL is considered ''equivalent''.

According to who or what documentation? God luck proving that beyond reasonable doubt to a consular official, who is having a less than pleasant day and who knows nothing about flying.

[Power]

Plenty of guys renewing their E3s at the moment without a degree.

[Kenny]

As someone who has lived in both the US and OZ, working for what some might term “top of the list” airlines, I’d just like to add the following.....

Firstly, regardless of what some online calculator tells you, the taxes are less in the US and almost everything you need or have to spend your salary on, each month, costs less than it would in Australia. Do not make the mistake of comparing AU$ to US$. It’s only a small part of the equation.

Secondly, do not underestimate the collective resistance to anyone other than a US citizen or Green Card holder, ever being employed by a legacy airline. My personal feeling is that it might happen if hell freezes over first. In other words..never.

[RSQ]

Feeling decidedly unwanted here on the southern tip of the continent, I am more than keen to relocate even at the advanced age of 61. South African and FAA ATP, 5500 hours (ran a desk for many years,) and typed on a few business jets, - Hawker, Lear, Gulfstream, Challenger Citation. What are the chances of a Part 91 position in the US with regards to an E3 visa, if anyone can advise I would appreciate it!

More that happy to handle flight ops and maintenance management inside of the position.

[pilotchute]

E3 for Aussies only sorry.

[AerocatS2A]

So what are regional CA’s in Australia earning on average then? The EBA is one thing, what guys are earning is another.
They get paid according to the EBA, so what guys are earning and their EBA should be the same thing no? A Cobham Regional (146) Capt might get around 180k on an outdated EBA with a couple of years back pay owing when the latest gets approved. Very little overtime or allowances there, generally flying around 50 hours / month.

[Left 270]

From the figures I’ve been told for the US, AUD to AUD comparison, its about double, at a minimum 1.5 but that’s for the guys here not working much.

[volare_737]

LEFT270 do you mean its double in Oz or double in USA ?

[Left 270]

Double in Oz.

[havick]

Double in Oz.

not so anymore.

[JPJP]

Double in Oz.

Hahahahahahahahahaha. :rolleyes:

[Left 270]

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/regional/skywest

These figures above support what I’ve been told from my mates there. Obviously other airlines might be paying better.

On the above link, a year 2 FO on the E175 would be on approx 50k usd which is about 68k AUD. I stand by my previous comments.

[JPJP]

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/regional/skywest

These figures above support what I’ve been told from my mates there. Obviously other airlines might be paying better.

On the above link, a year 2 FO on the E175 would be on approx 50k usd which is about 68k AUD. I stand by my previous comments.

Your “mates there”. Lol. I don’t have the time, nor the inclination to teach you what you don’t know. It’s all been said before - By Australians that actually live and work in the U.S. On this website.

Let’s for a moment imagine that you’re correct. Double $68K is $136K. A 2nd year Q link FO is making that ? “Double” as you said. No, you can’t add Super, and meal allowances, and whatever other scraps that you need to make your case. You can include their profit sharing, or there sign on Bonus, or the the fact that the upgrade is in the second year. Or the effective tax rate that’s half of the Australian rate. No ? Thought so.

[Left 270]

Not sure what your suggesting from the first paragraph, but yes my mates, maybe you’re not familiar with the concept?

As as for the second paragraph, every assumption there is incorrect.

[Seagull201]

Havick, wages in OZ are higher than in the US for most jobs. Houses and cost of living is much higher here. A Security guard earns 25 an hour, Cleaner 23 an hour, Retail 22 an hour, U.S hourly rates for those jobs are well under, about 15 an hour and lower.
A multi engine flight instructor earns 70 to 80k, U.S is 48k.
A dash 8 Captain is on 100 to 150k.
A saab 340 Captain is on 95 to 130k.
A regional jet Captain for your company is averaging 81 to 85k a year with the bonus, figures are on the Envoy ads " lets talk about pay" and your company is a wholly owned subsidary of AA others aren't.
Im travelling around Europe and spoken to many Americans and they all agree, that a person will struggle to live on an income of 40 to 45k a year there, and thats a first officer pay on a regional.
Youre quoting a figure of 130k a year because you're flying 100 hours a month.
Anyone thats wants to go to the U.S should go, but they shouldnt go there and worry about money and live in poverty, counting how many bucks are left each month.

[pilotchute]

Well I'm going for the experience, I certainly won't be getting rich. Where in Oz will I ever need deicing? I will never get exposure to airports like Chicago and Newark bashing around in a Saab in Oz.

If you think it's a way to a green card or a RHS at UPS you should forget it.

Regional FO pay is adequate if you don't have 2 kids and want to live in Manhatten.

[havick]

Havick, wages in OZ are higher than in the US for most jobs. Houses and cost of living is much higher here. A Security guard earns 25 an hour, Cleaner 23 an hour, Retail 22 an hour, U.S hourly rates for those jobs are well under, about 15 an hour and lower.
A multi engine flight instructor earns 70 to 80k, U.S is 48k.
A dash 8 Captain is on 100 to 150k.
A saab 340 Captain is on 95 to 130k.
A regional jet Captain for your company is averaging 81 to 85k a year with the bonus, figures are on the Envoy ads " lets talk about pay" and your company is a wholly owned subsidary of AA others aren't.
Im travelling around Europe and spoken to many Americans and they all agree, that a person will struggle to live on an income of 40 to 45k a year there, and thats a first officer pay on a regional.
Youre quoting a figure of 130k a year because you're flying 100 hours a month.
Anyone thats wants to go to the U.S should go, but they shouldnt go there and worry about money and live in poverty, counting how many bucks are left each month.

im sorry but your friends at skywest who bank only min guarantee are either chumps, or ride the short bus to work. They obviously don’t know how to leverage the soft pay on offer here.

im making reasonable money as a regional captain while I wait for my flow to mainline mid 2021.

Today as just one example I flew what was originally a 5.8 hour sequence out of LGA in NY, but got paid 20.3 hours. I’m averaging 140-150 credit hours each month at CA rates. That doesn’t include quarterly retention bonuses, performance bonuses and also the 1-2 5k referral bonuses I’m cashing in each month from helicopter pilots making the switch.

the guys who want to make money, easily double their base salary without breaking a sweat (not including any bonuses). Those who choose not to it’s really their choice.

the system isnt perfect here but I definitely have a much better quality of life here in the US than I would flying the same role in Aus.

[bafanguy]

Havick, wages in OZ are higher than in the US for most jobs. Houses and cost of living is much higher here.
Anyone thats wants to go to the U.S should go, but they shouldnt go there and worry about money and live in poverty, counting how many bucks are left each month.

Sg201,

People need to keep the purpose of making the jump to a US regional in perspective: a steppingstone. That's the same for US citizens. The airlines know it; applicants know it. No need to pretend otherwise. Whether it could be a career destination is another subject and wholly dependent on individual circumstances, airline involved...and kismet.

Any inference that Aussies would've done better staying home would need to be substantiated by proof that the same group would've ultimately been successful by doing so. I see no way to prove that but from the comments I see, it's a big hypothetical...maybe even not true for the vast majority of those coming here. Not picking a fight...just opining.

And havick is spot on about how one earns money in a contract-structured airline environment. The subject is highly complex with details varying some from one airline to another. But, one very likely earns more than just hours flown X hourly pay rate.

[umop apisdn]

It's easy to look at the guaranteed hours per month and then multiply it by first year wages . In reality that's not how it works. We get paid more than that because we usually fly more.

Irrespective of if the pay is on par with Australia or not, I can tell you conclusively that FO first year pay is more than enough to survive.

It's also a great way to jump the ladder. Single engine time in aus to a jet in the USA and upgrading not long after .

[Seagull201]

Well said by ALL during the last 4 posts.
The U.S will always represent greater aviation job opportunities than in OZ.

Persons wanting to fly in the U.S from OZ, can work out the finances themselves.

The biggest challenge for anyone from OZ, wanting to fly in the U.S , will be convincing the person at the Consulate, to give them an E3.

Wishing everyone well and hope people can continue contributing their experiences in getting an E3 and sharing their flying experiences in the U.S.

[olirindis]

Greetings all,

I’m sure this has probably been covered already but does the E3 Visa contribute in any way toward an application for permanent residence as in a green card or citizenship? In the event that ones US employer doesn’t require your services after two terms totaling four years is that it? You have to pack up and head on home?

Thanks in advance.....

[JPJP]

Not sure what your suggesting from the first paragraph, but yes my mates, maybe you’re not familiar with the concept?

As as for the second paragraph, every assumption there is incorrect.

Havick, wages in OZ are higher than in the US for most jobs. Houses and cost of living is much higher here. A Security guard earns 25 an hour, Cleaner 23 an hour, Retail 22 an hour, U.S hourly rates for those jobs are well under, about 15 an hour and lower.
A multi engine flight instructor earns 70 to 80k, U.S is 48k.
A dash 8 Captain is on 100 to 150k.
A saab 340 Captain is on 95 to 130k.
A regional jet Captain for your company is averaging 81 to 85k a year with the bonus, figures are on the Envoy ads " lets talk about pay" and your company is a wholly owned subsidary of AA others aren't.
Im travelling around Europe and spoken to many Americans and they all agree, that a person will struggle to live on an income of 40 to 45k a year there, and thats a first officer pay on a regional.
Youre quoting a figure of 130k a year because you're flying 100 hours a month.
Anyone thats wants to go to the U.S should go, but they shouldnt go there and worry about money and live in poverty, counting how many bucks are left each month.

Neither of you have lived and worked in the U.S. I suspect that niether of you have ever worked for an airline. None of which would matter one iota. Except for the fact that you’ve being told that you’re incorrect by multiple Australians who have. It wouldn’t matter in the grand scheme of things, but you’re giving bad information based on junk (Eagles website. Seriously dude ?).

Seagul 201 - you’re telling Australians about Australia. WTF ? Are you a pilot at an airline ? Have you been to the U.S. Serious questions. Do you understand the difference between flying 100 hours a month, and being paid for it ?

Left 270 - Same questions. Have you ever left Oz for longer than 2 weeks. Or at all ? Fly for an airline ? Understand how pay works at an airline across differing EBAs ?

[Seagull201]

JPJP, okay you flew in the U.S., so what, i can find you multiple videos of pilots thst have joined the regionals in the U.S and they ALL say, first officer pay is LOW.

The pay rates are available to any person to see and make their own conclusions.
Im talking about the First Officer pay rates during the first 2 years.
The pay is LOW.

Tell me JP, what does an F/O at Skywrst earn per month, take home?
Is that enough to rent a unit, drive a car, groceries, pay bills, eat out, gymn fees, go out?
I dont think so.
But i understand thats the job and thats what it pays.

If things are so good in the U.S, then why didnt you stay there?
Why return to OZ?

[havick]

JPJP, okay you flew in the U.S., so what, i can find you multiple videos of pilots thst have joined the regionals in the U.S and they ALL say, first officer pay is LOW.

The pay rates are available to any person to see and make their own conclusions.
Im talking about the First Officer pay rates during the first 2 years.
The pay is LOW.

Tell me JP, what does an F/O at Skywrst earn per month, take home?
Is that enough to rent a unit, drive a car, groceries, pay bills, eat out, gymn fees, go out?
I dont think so.
But i understand thats the job and thats what it pays.

If things are so good in the U.S, then why didnt you stay there?
Why return to OZ?

You saw some videos, read some websites, now you’re an expert on all things US.

[JPJP]

JPJP, okay you flew in the U.S., so what, i can find you multiple videos of pilots thst have joined the regionals in the U.S

If things are so good in the U.S, then why didnt you stay there?
Why return to OZ?

FFS :sad: videos ?

I'm still here. I’ve been in the left seat for the last 13 years. I’m at one of the 4 largest airlines in the US. That should at least establish that I know enough to talk about the subject. Tell us a little bit about yourself. You didn’t answer any of the questions.

[Left 270]

Jp, trying to discredit someone else’s statement doesn’t actually strengthen your own but ill answer.Yes, yes and yes. I’m not sure what’s got under your nose I suggest you re read my initial post, or have a bex or something. Someone asked what the wages were compared to Oz, I answered it based on what I know, which I based on people I know who work there. Can you tell me how you get on the ground information for Airlines you don’t work for if it’s not to ask people would who work there what they’re actually getting? Been a skipper at a US Airline for 13 years but seem to know better than I do what the guys in Oz are getting?

[Left 270]

I’ll add as well at no point have I said one way is or was a better option than the other, just a simple comparison of wages.

[JPJP]

I’ll add as well at no point have I said one way is or was a better option than the other, just a simple comparison of wages.


Thats not the issue. I completely agree that arguing over quality of life, or pay methodology is a waste of time. Example - The idea of long service leave makes me green with envy.

The issue is this - you’re answers are incorrect. Which makes me wonder if you’re actually living it, or just reading about it. You claimed that a 2nd year Dash FO is making $ 138K AU PA. Working hardish, it’s around $100K. Your Super isn’t your pay. You don’t seem to have a firm grasp on either system.

The Oz EBAs are publicly available. Produce the United CBA. I’ll wait ;) Like most people, I still have strong ties to friends in Oz airlines. Their EBAs have less flexibility in general. A good or bad thing. Depends on your point of view. example - here, it is possible to completely or partially clear your month, and then pick up trips at premium pay (150% or 200%). It depends on season, skill and seniority. But it occurs at ~ 90% seniority levels to differing extents. Hence - multiplying an hourly rate by guarantee is meaningless.

What type do you fly, and how long have you been doing it ?

I’m pretty sure Seagull is my 8 year old nephew trolling me :E

[Kenny]

Dear God in heaven, my head hurts after reading some of these posts....

This is not rocket science gents; you can’t simply compare wages or in other words, as I’ve said before, AU$ to US$ because you’re not taking into account what things cost.

In the US, my taxes are half what they were in Oz, for the same amount. My food bill is half and my rent is half for double the amount of space. My car cost half what it would in Oz and I can look after a family of three and save money.

[AerocatS2A]

Which is all irrelevant really. All that matters is if you want to do it or not. Do you want to go to the US and fly there for the money on offer? Yes. Then go ahead and do it. It doesn’t matter a jolt what different people are earning.

[Kranz]

To get back on topic - I contacted a few of the airlines who are offering E3 sponsorship from the list previously posted in this thread. Most completely ignored my correspondence. Piedmont was the only one that wrote back to say they were interested, and PSA responded to say they specifically do not sponsor applicants requiring an E3 Visa. The rest (e.g. Compass, Envoy, Mesa, SkyWest, ect) were all silent.

Can anyone provide an update as at August 2018? TIA.

[JPJP]

Which is all irrelevant really. All that matters is if you want to do it or not. Do you want to go to the US and fly there for the money on offer? Yes. Then go ahead and do it. It doesn’t matter a jolt what different people are earning.


I agree. It would certainly help if posters who have no clue about either subject would confine themselves to videos and talking to “their mates”. There are plenty of pilots on PPrune who have either worked for an Oz Regional and/or a U.S Regional to supply facts. The rest is just noise.

For the Seagull and Left 270. This is what facts look like.

4th year Q400 FO. working 120 hours in 2018.



Originally Posted by Fujiroll76 https://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/448354-australian-airline-wages-compilation-14.html#post10057639)
Not necessarily, a typical 120hr month with 6 overnights per roster would see 100K. Most if not all being on Q400 bypass pay atm.

*figuers based on being a 4th year FO on the 65% rule.
From the Eastern EBA:

Base Pay: 78,733
DHA: 9,360 (120 x 6.50 x 12)
Overnight Allowances: 11,315 (157.15 x 6 x 12), this assumes the pilot qualifies for all meal allowances for each overnight trip.

Total: $99,408 + other allowances.

Based on the above I stand corrected.

I am probably in the minority with the following opinion but I wouldn't really include overnight allowances as part of the annual wage as I see it as an allowance to cover the additional expense of having to "dine out" versus feeding oneself at home.

Regarding FOs on by-pass pay, well yes they would be on more than $100k, but they aren't really on the FO pay scale are they? It's not like a new hire would be immediately accessing that would they?

[pilotchute]

Kranz ,

Envoy and PSA were never E3 sponsors. Mesa, Skywest, Piedmont and Commutair are still actively hiring.

You are better off filling in the online application rather than just emailing. These people do a lot of roadshows so getting them to reply to emails can be tough.

[pilotchute]

Kranz,

On another thread you mention you don't have a PPL yet. Maybe you should stop wasting yours and other people's time emailing about jobs that your nowhere near qualified for.

Just for the people who missed it.

E3 is not a path to a Green Card!!!!!

[umop apisdn]

Tell me JP, what does an F/O at Skywrst earn per month, take home?
Is that enough to rent a unit, drive a car, groceries, pay bills, eat out, gymn fees, go out?
I dont think so.

I'm telling you conclusively that is is enough to do all of the above. Plus the savings are piling up nicely. If you want to continue to believe the youtube videos you watch and ignore the people who are here with first hand experience, then you really should go back to school and learn about acceptable sources of information.

I’m sure this has probably been covered already but does the E3 Visa contribute in any way toward an application for permanent residence as in a green card or citizenship? In the event that ones US employer doesn’t require your services after two terms totaling four years is that it? You have to pack up and head on home?

The E3 has no path to a green card. You need to get married to an American or win the Diversity Lottery for that. If you wanted to come to the USA long term on an E3, I'd suggest Piedmont, where you can hang around for a few years and wait for flow to American. There is nothing in their contract that would stop that happening for an E3 holder but I'm yet to hear of any real life stories.

I think there is a 60 day grace period which will allow you to stay and and search for work if your employment is ended prematurely.


Even if there is, you're still going to need a new visa, which would be a damn pain to get onshore. You'd have to pack up everything and go, then come back a few weeks later with no flight benefits. That would suck.

[VH DSJ]

I've been in the US now for almost two years. It's always been my intention to come here, get the the jet experience and then move back home where the experience gathered here would make my job applications back home a lot more competitive than what it was without it. And so far, that plan is working.

Many treat the regionals as a stepping stone to the majors or other better paying jobs like the cargo or LCC carriers and the company also understands that. Infact, during my first day of Indoc here, that was exactly what was said to us by senior management in the company. They're happy to have us move on with nothing owing to the company and they're even happy to accept us back if things don't work out at our new company. It also fits their scheme of things by having pilots move on quickly, as they won't need to always be paying the top tier pay to their captains, as they move on after only a handful of years with the company. I suspect that's why the company keeps regional pilot pay at the levels they're at, and although there have been an increase of 100% or more in the last 15 years or so, regional pilot pay will never reach the levels of legacy airlines despite the fact that many of the routes that we do are the same as mainline routes (on the ERJ at least).

Although there are what's known as 'lifers' here (those who are happy to stay working at the regional level, either by choice or that they can't seem to crack it for the majors), the majority of people here (locals and E3ers) only see this as an experience gathering exercise or stepping stone for greener pastures back home or elsewhere. Although the pay is survival (and even more so if you upgrade to a captain quickly), that is not the main reason why many of us are here.

Here is some advice for those considering making the move to the USA on the E3 visa. Just do it. You have nothing to lose. You get a free jet type rating, no bond, no minimum service and you get paid to see some of the most amazing sights you'll ever see when flying (Eg, Mt St Helens, Mt Rainier, the Grand Canyon, The Golden Gate Bridge on the Bedega2 arrival in to San Francisco, the Statue of Liberty going in to La Guardia, the Niagra Falls when flying in to Chicago from the east). You'll also gain first hand experience in cold weather operations during the winter with deice and anti-ice procedures, operating in snow conditions, doing CAT 2 ILS as pilot flying in to LAX when the marine layer moves in and not to mention, getting RNP 0.3 certification as well flying into some of the busiest airports in the world, like Chicago, Atlanta, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle and Dallas. All this would look great on your resume for that 'dream job' you're applying for back home or elsewhere. This is what it's all about.

[bafanguy]

I've been in the US now for almost two years. It's always been my intention to come here, get the the jet experience and then move back home where the experience gathered here would make my job applications back home a lot more competitive than what it was without it. And so far, that plan is working.

Many treat the regionals as a stepping stone to the majors or other better paying jobs like the cargo or LCC carriers and the company also understands that. Infact, during my first day of Indoc here, that was exactly what was said to us by senior management in the company. They're happy to have us move on with nothing owing to the company and they're even happy to accept us back if things don't work out at our new company. It also fits their scheme of things by having pilots move on quickly, as they won't need to always be paying the top tier pay to their captains, as they move on after only a handful of years with the company. I suspect that's why the company keeps regional pilot pay at the levels they're at, and although there have been an increase of 100% or more in the last 15 years or so, regional pilot pay will never reach the levels of legacy airlines despite the fact that many of the routes that we do are the same as mainline routes (on the ERJ at least).

Although there are what's known as 'lifers' here (those who are happy to stay working at the regional level, either by choice or that they can't seem to crack it for the majors), the majority of people here (locals and E3ers) only see this as an experience gathering exercise or stepping stone for greener pastures back home or elsewhere. Although the pay is survival (and even more so if you upgrade to a captain quickly), that is not the main reason why many of us are here.

Here is some advice for those considering making the move to the USA on the E3 visa. Just do it. You have nothing to lose. You get a free jet type rating, no bond, no minimum service and you get paid to see some of the most amazing sights you'll ever see when flying (Eg, Mt St Helens, Mt Rainier, the Grand Canyon, The Golden Gate Bridge on the Bedega2 arrival in to San Francisco, the Statue of Liberty going in to La Guardia, the Niagra Falls when flying in to Chicago from the east). You'll also gain first hand experience in cold weather operations during the winter with deice and anti-ice procedures, operating in snow conditions, doing CAT 2 ILS as pilot flying in to LAX when the marine layer moves in and not to mention, getting RNP 0.3 certification as well flying into some of the busiest airports in the world, like Chicago, Atlanta, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle and Dallas. All this would look great on your resume for that 'dream job' you're applying for back home or elsewhere. This is what it's all about.

Well put, Sir. :ok:

[bafanguy]

The E3 has no path to a green card. You need to get married to an American or win the Diversity Lottery for that. If you wanted to come to the USA long term on an E3, I'd suggest Piedmont, where you can hang around for a few years and wait for flow to American. There is nothing in their contract that would stop that happening for an E3 holder but I'm yet to hear of any real life stories.

This is an interesting twist. The first E3 Aussie to flow to AA will be a precedent-setting case.

Just a rhetorical question: If said E3er goes to mainline AA, what does he do about visa status for the next ~25/30 years ? That's a lot of E3 renewals.

[LostWanderer]

This is an interesting twist. The first E3 Aussie to flow to AA will be a precedent-setting case.

Just a rhetorical question: If said E3er goes to mainline AA, what does he do about visa status for the next ~25/30 years ? That's a lot of E3 renewals.

Unfortunately no company is obliged to renew a visa, I suspect it would as simple a solve as "Sorry we don't require your services anymore" and that would be the end of the story. Stranger things happen but I can't see anyone on an E3 flowing anywhere other than back to Australia at some stage.

That said, I would love to be proved wrong!

[havick]

Unfortunately no company is obliged to renew a visa, I suspect it would as simple a solve as "Sorry we don't require your services anymore" and that would be the end of the story. Stranger things happen but I can't see anyone on an E3 flowing anywhere other than back to Australia at some stage.

That said, I would love to be proved wrong!

not so, they are contractually obliged to flow them and would face a significant law suit if they didn’t.

[LostWanderer]

Well that is great if so :)
My understanding of an E3 Visa was it was seperate to anything to do with ALPA or pilot contract. As in if the company elect not to renew someones paper work then it was entirely at their discretion given they are sponsoring said pilot. It happens already at airlines here, I know of one guy who wasn't exactly setting the world on fire with his attitude and was released with no visa renewal. No appeals either. A company merely has to say they no longer require that employee. Again, I think thats great if what you say is correct!

[havick]

Well that is great if so :)
My understanding of an E3 Visa was it was seperate to anything to do with ALPA or pilot contract. As in if the company elect not to renew someones paper work then it was entirely at their discretion given they are sponsoring said pilot. It happens already at airlines here, I know of one guy who wasn't exactly setting the world on fire with his attitude and was released with no visa renewal. No appeals either. A company merely has to say they no longer require that employee. Again, I think thats great if what you say is correct!

Theyre part of the seniority list sonthe whole contract applies to them. ALPA has already told them they will support the pilots if the company doesn’t honour it.

[LostWanderer]

Theyre part of the seniority list sonthe whole contract applies to them. ALPA has already told them they will support the pilots if the company doesn’t honour it.

Wow thats cool Havick, I am very impressed if they can pull it off! That is great for the guys and gals there. And truly, I hope it happens for everyones benefit (including my own for selfish reasons!)
But call me a bitter, old, overly suspicious fool...I will believe it when I see it. Temporary visas are an entirely different ballpark and I just can't see how ALPA could be involved in any decision to sponsor/not sponsor a pilot. At my company and most others it is an HR decision and at their entirely at their discretion who they sponsor and for how long they sponsor for...100% removed from ALPA. I honestly don't think ALPA even could (would) come in to bat for someone who the company decided to no longer sponsor on a Visa if they deemed they no longer needed them in that position - E3 legal language is VERY fluid so you don't really have a leg to stand on from a union if the airline decides they no longer wish to sponsor your Visa renewals.

More so, fastest way to peeve off a very large group of heavily unionised US citizen/perm resident pilots...start giving temporary Visa guys their coveted mainline jobs, the union is smart and wont bite the hand that feeds them, especially not for perhaps less than 100 people. I truly love the idea and ALPA's statement of support for the lads...but I think pigs will be flying on Mars before an E3 pilot is sitting in the right seat of a mainline A320/737 etc...via any kind of flow arrangement anyway. Maybe if and when the shortage gets significantly worse.

*Don't shoot the messenger. Just my opinion :) *

[havick]

Wow thats cool Havick, I am very impressed if they can pull it off! That is great for the guys and gals there. And truly, I hope it happens for everyones benefit (including my own for selfish reasons!)
But call me a bitter, old, overly suspicious fool...I will believe it when I see it. Temporary visas are an entirely different ballpark and I just can't see how ALPA could be involved in any decision to sponsor/not sponsor a pilot. At my company and most others it is an HR decision and at their entirely at their discretion who they sponsor and for how long they sponsor for...100% removed from ALPA. I honestly don't think ALPA even could (would) come in to bat for someone who the company decided to no longer sponsor on a Visa if they deemed they no longer needed them in that position - E3 legal language is VERY fluid so you don't really have a leg to stand on from a union if the airline decides they no longer wish to sponsor your Visa renewals.

More so, fastest way to peeve off a very large group of heavily unionised US citizen/perm resident pilots...start giving temporary Visa guys their coveted mainline jobs, the union is smart and wont bite the hand that feeds them, especially not for perhaps less than 100 people. I truly love the idea and ALPA's statement of support for the lads...but I think pigs will be flying on Mars before an E3 pilot is sitting in the right seat of a mainline A320/737 etc...via any kind of flow arrangement anyway. Maybe if and when the shortage gets significantly worse.

*Don't shoot the messenger. Just my opinion :) *

time will tell. But I think the companies are more afraid of multi-million dollar law suits/payouts rather than just having someone do their job.

ALPA just want to enforce their contract.

its probably very likely the very reason Envoy didn’t go down the E3 route.

[Kranz]

On another thread you mention you don't have a PPL yet. Maybe you should stop wasting yours and other people's time emailing about jobs that your nowhere near qualified for.

Didn't realise it was a crime to pose a question. In any case, the gist of my enquiries has been to ascertain more specific information around what each airline is looking for so that I can ensure I spend my training money in the way that best suits the airlines to improve my candidacy for any roles. Whilst you are correct in where I am with my training, I am working towards my CPL and would like to have this within three months (I am dedicating 3 days per week full time to prac & theory and am flying an average of 4 hours a day on each of those three days). I am also enquiring about the airline cadetship routes which include working as a CFI to boost hours to 1500 rather than DEFO. I therefore don't see my requests as being pre-emptive or wasting people's time. But thank you for your comment.

I also received a response from Compass overnight saying they do not sponsor E3's.

[pilotchute]

Asking a question is fine but emailing a HR dept when you are 2 years away from min requirements would probably not impress them.

All the info on E3 is easily found by googling.

What they are "looking for" is found in the careers section of their website.

Your enthusiasm is great but work on getting your CPL and IR out of the way first. If you do want a helpful hint, during your 70 hours solo go and get 5 hours in a 206 or 210.

[umop apisdn]

Another hint:

Do your CPL and PPL hour building at night. You need 75 of those bad boys to come over here and every one of them counts, especially if you end up in a day VFR only charter / scenic gig.

[Seagull201]

The First Officer pay, has been personally explained to me AND it's better than what i expected.
Its not 36 bucks an hour until 76 hours, there's other factors involved and other calculations.
The figures look quite healthy.

Captains pay is as explained by havick previously, at 130k there abouts.

Thanks to ALL for their advice, no matter how critical.

Cheers to ALL.

[DUXNUTZ]

Wow thats cool Havick, I am very impressed if they can pull it off! That is great for the guys and gals there. And truly, I hope it happens for everyones benefit (including my own for selfish reasons!)
But call me a bitter, old, overly suspicious fool...I will believe it when I see it. Temporary visas are an entirely different ballpark and I just can't see how ALPA could be involved in any decision to sponsor/not sponsor a pilot. At my company and most others it is an HR decision and at their entirely at their discretion who they sponsor and for how long they sponsor for...100% removed from ALPA. I honestly don't think ALPA even could (would) come in to bat for someone who the company decided to no longer sponsor on a Visa if they deemed they no longer needed them in that position - E3 legal language is VERY fluid so you don't really have a leg to stand on from a union if the airline decides they no longer wish to sponsor your Visa renewals.

More so, fastest way to peeve off a very large group of heavily unionised US citizen/perm resident pilots...start giving temporary Visa guys their coveted mainline jobs, the union is smart and wont bite the hand that feeds them, especially not for perhaps less than 100 people. I truly love the idea and ALPA's statement of support for the lads...but I think pigs will be flying on Mars before an E3 pilot is sitting in the right seat of a mainline A320/737 etc...via any kind of flow arrangement anyway. Maybe if and when the shortage gets significantly worse.

*Don't shoot the messenger. Just my opinion :) *


Agreed. Already a bit of mumbling going on with the E3 situation amongst guys at the majors on foreigners taking jobs.

[flying-spike]

Interested reading although some of it appears a bit out of date:https://www.aerocrewnews.com/acn/2018/08-ACN-Aug-2018.pdf

[Ramjet555]

Didn't realise it was a crime to pose a question. In any case, the gist of my enquiries has been to ascertain more specific information around what each airline is looking for so that I can ensure I spend my training money in the way that best suits the airlines to improve my candidacy for any roles. Whilst you are correct in where I am with my training, I am working towards my CPL and would like to have this within three months (I am dedicating 3 days per week full time to prac & theory and am flying an average of 4 hours a day on each of those three days). I am also enquiring about the airline cadetship routes which include working as a CFI to boost hours to 1500 rather than DEFO. I therefore don't see my requests as being pre-emptive or wasting people's time. But thank you for your comment.

I also received a response from Compass overnight saying they do not sponsor E3's.

Its frustrating that many US companies are unable to think outside their small minded approach.
First, its not "sponsoring", its simply applying for an LCA on a 9035 form, its that phrase
that will get your resume tossed into the garbage fast.

I've seen a number throw in the towel as too difficult without having a clue
what they are talking about.

I've seen everyone in the jail want to go ahead, then one ignorant person with a key role, simply
sends off a form reject letter because they don't like foreigners, when they are a foreigner themselves.
The logic in the USA is that you have very large numbers of people who do not know anything over what is required
as part of their job.

The word is, you can be successful at this process, and if the people doing the hiring
actually have seen the process work previously, then your chances rocket.

[bafanguy]

So, I assume by the lack of activity on this thread nothing is new on the Aussie-US regional front ? Nothing newsworthy ?

[umop apisdn]

SkyWest is heading for a significant first year FO pay rise which I expect will probably bring even more Aussies out of the woodwork. So far it looks like it will match the highest paying regionals if it goes through later this month.

Aussies are still streaming over. Most captains remark that there are "so many of you here."

They also usually complement our collective flying skills, professionalism and our both practical and impractical knowledge base.

[bafanguy]

Aussies are still streaming over. Most captains remark that there are "so many of you here."

They also usually complement our collective flying skills, professionalism and our both practical and impractical knowledge base.

Well done ! :D

[havick]

SkyWest is heading for a significant first year FO pay rise which I expect will probably bring even more Aussies out of the woodwork. So far it looks like it will match the highest paying regionals if it goes through later this month.

Aussies are still streaming over. Most captains remark that there are "so many of you here."

They also usually complement our collective flying skills, professionalism and our both practical and impractical knowledge base.

a lot have also upgraded or near upgrading.

[zondaracer]

If voted in, the new pay scales start 1 November. First year pay will be $45 per hour, second year FO $50.

You can see the proposed pay scales here:
https://uploadfiles.io/hk4xw
Keep in mind, the bonus structure will be preserved (Pilot profit sharing, performance bonuses, and financial performance bonuses).

[bafanguy]

SkyWest is heading for a significant first year FO pay rise which I expect will probably bring even more Aussies out of the woodwork.

Aussies are still streaming over.



Found this. Isn't dated so don't know how recent it is. The Skywest website doesn't contain these exact words:

"Be E3 visa eligible"


AviationJobs.Me Flight Crew: CRJ200 Non Type Rated First Officers Skywest Airlines US (http://www.aviationjobs.me/2018/10/crj200-non-type-rated-first-officers.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+aviationjobs%2Frss+%28AviationJobsMe+Fl ight+Crew%29)

[VH DSJ]

If voted in, the new pay scales start 1 November. First year pay will be $45 per hour, second year FO $50.

You can see the proposed pay scales here:
https://uploadfiles.io/hk4xw
Keep in mind, the bonus structure will be preserved (Pilot profit sharing, performance bonuses, and financial performance bonuses).

And a $40,000 USD sign on bonus on top of that. They may still be offering an extra $7,500 USD bonus for previous turbine airline/charter experience. So that’s almost $62K AUD in bonuses just for choosing SkyWest. Not to forget you get a free jet type rating with no bond and no minimum terms of service, excellent training which qualify you for Cat 2 ILS and RNP 0.3 approaches. Don’t know why people would bother applying for turbo-prop operators back in Aus when they can get all this for the cost of an E3 visa ($200).

[umop apisdn]

No RNP on the CRJ. Maybe ERJ I'm not sure though.

FOs can credit as much as they want if you want to work like a dawg. Comfortable would be 85 but you can go over 100 pretty easy by picking up open time.

[zondaracer]

SkyWest E175s are RNP approved.

The new contract, if voted in, will give the company the ability to offer up to $40,000 in bonuses, if the company needs it to recruit more pilots. Don’t expect the 40k bonus to be offered from day 1. $40,000 will be the cap.

Having said that, a friend of mine is an Australian at SkyWest, and he said he made more money as a flight instructor in Australia, but the cost of living is so much lower here that he’s able to save money for the first time in his life.

[bafanguy]

Commutair has big growth plans. Any Aussies have recent contact with them to see if this is still correct info ?:

E-3 Visa - Home Page (http://www.flycommutair.com/e-3-visa/)

[DropYourSocks]

Hi Bafanguy,

The site is still correct and C5 is flat out getting new drivers. Another 10 jets mininum to be delivered yet, and likely a further 20 if all goes well, which will take the fleet to 61 total by 2020ish. (I think they're taking a new one every 3-5 weeks)

The word is C5 expects to hire another 400 pilots over the next 2 years, which isn't bad when the current total sits around 320 pilots.

If any Aussies want more info on C5 feel free to message me.

Drop Your Socks

[bafanguy]

The site is still correct and C5 is flat out getting new drivers. The word is C5 expects to hire another 400 pilots over the next 2 years, which isn't bad when the current total sits around 320 pilots.

DYS,

That's serious growth. Doubling the pilot group in 2 years.

I assume that they also take you right off the boat with Aussie tickets and go from there ? And upgrades are coming at 1000 hours Part 121 ?

[DropYourSocks]

Yeah they pay for you to do the ATP CTP before you start, and do the faa licensing in house. The US guys that are being hired that have 1500 total with 1000 Pic in part 135 ops or 1000 Sic in part 121 are getting upgrade calls before they've even finished their type rating and check ride. For us Aussies you can/will do that in 12 months.

[havick]

DYS,

That's serious growth. Doubling the pilot group in 2 years.

I assume that they also take you right off the boat with Aussie tickets and go from there ? And upgrades are coming at 1000 hours Part 121 ?

different company, but when I was hired at Envoy late 2016 they hired nearly 1000 pilots after me in a 12 month period. I only did 3 weeks on reserve as an FO and then again only 3 weeks on reserve as a CA when i upgraded.

[bafanguy]

Good to know the opportunity is still available for those willing to make the effort. The grapevine has been pretty quiet for a while. Maybe Summer doldrums.

[havick]

Good to know the opportunity is still available for those willing to make the effort. The grapevine has been pretty quiet for a while. Maybe Summer doldrums.

to be honest in this particular case no news is good news. At least on the E3/regional front.

[Power]

E3 hiring is still full steam ahead

[vee1-rotate]

Would not hesitate getting over here on an E3 if you're the slight bit interested, the industry is going bananas. I'm in corporate and they are losing pilots to the airlines like crazy. Major carriers are picking up all the experience corporate and regional guys they can get, leaving regional and corporate bare bones.

Get over while you can !

[stormfury]

Major carriers are picking up all the experience corporate and regional guys they can get, leaving regional and corporate bare bones.
Maybe, depends where you are. Plenty of jobs out there paying more than US regionals for similar experience. It boils down to want you want, airlines aren’t necessarily the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

[bafanguy]

to be honest in this particular case no news is good news. At least on the E3/regional front.

True enough. So I guess there are no regionals now accepting E3s who previously had not ?

That would be newsworthy...

[DropYourSocks]

As an aside for those who would like to make a more permanent move, the green card lottery is now open. As far as I am aware, simply entering into the lottery (and even chosen as a winner) does not signify immigrant intent, however applying for that visa after winning does.

Food for thought.

[bafanguy]

As an aside for those who would like to make a more permanent move, the green card lottery is now open.

Can't win if ya don't enter. Lots of Aussies have taken a run at it :ok::

https://www.usagreencardlottery.org/green-card-statistics.jsp

[umop apisdn]

Can't win if ya don't enter. Lots of Aussies have taken a run at it :ok::

https://www.usagreencardlottery.org/green-card-statistics.jsp
Don't use that website to enter. Use www.dvlottery.state.gov

Lots of scams out there with regards to this.

[bafanguy]

Don't use that website to enter. Use www.dvlottery.state.gov

Ah so...didn't even notice that wasn't a gov website. Scams abound for sure.

I just saw the stats and thought they were interesting.

[Ramjet555]

First, I'm not (yet) on an E3. You should get a reply from those airlines, Compass, Envoy, Mesa, SkyWest
They all have Australian's working on E3 Visas and for them its about 30 seconds work, prepared forms, all they do is
insert your name and shortly after an "LCA" arrives, the print a boilerplate Job offer, very similar to that for US pilots
and then you take it to the embassy and it will have a very high probability of success.

Now, smaller US operators, who do not look like big airlines do not know anything about an E3 visa.
In particular Most Universities, Colleges, flight schools have not got a clue about E3 and, its a very tough
sell unless you can hand them the paperwork for them to sign.

According to the youtube presenter from the US embassy in Canberra you do NOT need a degree
just 12 years experience if you do not have a degree.

If you have a US ATP then you should be good to go.

The problem arises when you have a degree but want to take a specialist occupation say
like crop spraying, because it does not normally require a degree then you cannot accept that job
and an E3 would not be issued because the job does not qualify.

Every time I explain that I hear WTF.????
Those are the US rules, and it works out very well for Australians who want to fly in the USA
The difference is, Australia will allow American Spray Pilots to work in Australia
as does Canada where Australian pilots do not even need to get a Canadian medical
its, just a foreign licence validation.... Australia does the same.

The USA has its rules that give it an unfair trade and employment advantage
but that's the way it is and its probably going to get worse.

But don't tell Donald Trump, he will suddenly realize that the United States is bleeding pilots and especially Instructors.

There is hardly a flight school in the USA that is not desperate for instructors.

To get back on topic - I contacted a few of the airlines who are offering E3 sponsorship from the list previously posted in this thread. Most completely ignored my correspondence. Piedmont was the only one that wrote back to say they were interested, and PSA responded to say they specifically do not sponsor applicants requiring an E3 Visa. The rest (e.g. Compass, Envoy, Mesa, SkyWest, ect) were all silent.

Can anyone provide an update as at August 2018? TIA.