Industrial Action at Flybe?

[six-sixty]

LSM, "agitprop" means the old Soviet practice of agitation and propaganda, one of the methods by which their overseas agencies tried to spread communism throughout the world.

Or put another way, sticking your oar in where it doesnt belong and trying to stir up dissent and wind everyone up. Modern day, think of anarchist scumbags trying to hijack student fees demo and turn it into a riot.

On the other hand I like assymetricdrifts suggestion. Does anyone know a cheap snatch team?

[BluffOldSeaDog]

BACon issue resolved in favour of the flight crew, posted on Balpa's company forum this morning. Still more :ugh: things that could completely banjax this though

[Lord Spandex Masher]

six-sixty, you don't have to read my comments if they're winding you up. You're free to ignore.

As it is the company can afford to be more generous, you deserve more but if this offer is accepted then you are selling yourselves way too short.

I hope you're not considering a yes vote so you don't appear to be too militant. If it takes dissent and a more aggressive stance then so be it. It'll stop the company walking all over you again and again and again and again. You have the perfect opportunity to put an end to it. Don't let it pass.

So far they have squashed the threat of IA with a lesser offer than was originally asked for by Balpa. Seems to me the company are winning, still.

[judge11]

I don't think LSM or any other outsider is trying to stir anything up - but it can/does take an outsider(s) to be able to take a detatched view and simply suggest that your demands have not been met - period - and furthermore, those of you who are naive enough to deem this offer as acceptable in the hope that French will be gernerous (and he hasn't with this one) in any future negotiation are urinating into a very strong wind.

[Hansoff]

Judge is right - demands not met, French pretending to care, - none of it adds up. We are still in a strong position but will give it away if we vote 'yes'. Then there will be more dissatisfaction when we realise how we have been shafted, again, and more whingeing. Not a good place to be. But all pilots whinge, all workers whinge, but I don't think many professionals whinge. We need a deal that encourages professionalism.

[airjersey]

six-sixty.

Totally agree with you.


And to be honest, I think that when the next negotiations come in 18 months, then we´ll be in a really good position to ask for a lot of things. The fleet will have quite a few more e-jets, they might already have a european deal by that time, and most of all the economy should be growing faster and people should be getting jobs around the country instead of loosing them, and will be SPENDING money. THEN! you can negotiate a proper deal.

I think this has gone on for far too long, and if we say NO to another "strongly recommended" offer (agreed that the first one was a joke) then I don´t think there´s much room for more negotiation and come back to the table saying oh actually turns out we liked it yesterday but not today. It´s going to seem like BALPA don´t have a clue of what we want, and everything is going to feel like a joke. And I too agree with the fact that voting for strike might not get us very far, in fact it might backfire big time....but hey what do I know....

It´ll be a YES from me, enjoy my backpay with a nice holiday, enjoy my 5% increase this winter (yes I will enjoy it and it will make a difference), and will plan to spend it on my 60 hour weekends. Let´s just freaking close this chapter and start thinking about the next one....it´s actually starting to get really boring to hear the same moooooooooooaning all the time.....:ugh:

[Lord Spandex Masher]

That "can't be bothered/bored with/just want my back pay" attitude is exactly how to get the best deal.......for the company.

You are NOW in a really good position to ask for a lot of things. Strangely you're not asking though. You are about to accept a worse deal than Balpa originally asked for. That is the product of 18 months of negotiating. What makes you think that the next 18 months will be more succesful? Sadly I think you are setting a precedent for future negotiations if you accept this offer.

Just to reiterate. Flybe have just made their biggest profit ever, in the middle of a recession.

THEN! you can negotiate a proper deal

Are you implying that the current deal isn't a "proper" one? Yet you are still going to accept it?!

[Calmcavok]

Flybe pilots will never be in as strong a position again, certainly not for a very long time. Make use of it.

[judge11]

The 'take it for an easy life' attitude is rather depressing to read. I hope some never get involved in long-term or strategic planning for a living because the end of next week seems to be the extent of their forward view.:{

[dv8]

Sorry.... I have bit my tongue too long. Yes I am no longer Flybe but have a vested interest and many friends there.
Just saying 'Grow some' is a bit rude but judge11 puts it very well. If you have principals ...stick to them.
Good luck

[HidekiTojo]

oops looks like someone hasn't seen the news...been on holiday old chap? (BA are recruiting no one gives a dam)

[judge11]

........but the majority of you will still be working for flybe for the foreseeable future so best you get the best possible deal for those remaining. All of you busily putting your BA applications together may think 'you' are god's gift to aviation; BA may have other ideas so plan for that event.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

All of you busily putting your BA applications together may think 'you' are god's gift to aviation

I didn't know it was a requirement. Did I miss part of the application?:ooh:

[Serenity]

All gone quiet while the ballot takes place ( and BA applications are filled in).
Lots of umming as to whether this is the start of a new improved management attitude?
Can a leopard change it's spots??
How many loop holes will they find in the new agreements, if passed?
The longer it takes the more doubts people seem to have.
Surely doubts = no??
Thoughts??

[Leg]

You guys need to get with the program.

The company has not made big profits, its all gone, nowt left
due to bad weather and Iceland scewing us over (again).

Those that pontificate about standing firm and all that bs,
what a load of crock, we are NOW in the best position by
accepting this deal, we have shown the mismanagement
they cant push us around, lets get our ducks in a row
for the real fight, in 18 months time. :E

[Leg]

Poor soul, you obviously dont get out much :=

Its a serious issue son, if you have nowt to add, say nowt!

[Leg]

Well you obviously know nothing about business spouting drivel like that.
Underlying profit, is just that, before being used for right offs, but thats
too hard for your little brain no doubt.
Look, we have to get over this, agree to the deal which the CC have
worked damn hard on, then give the mismanagment another kick
in the nuts in 18 months time, you know it makes sense, well maybe
you cannot understand it as you seem to be deviod of basic business
sense. I can suggest 'business for dummies', my misses vouches for it... :ugh:

[Leg]

For goodness sake son, you need to grow a pair.
Your retort showed your lack of knowledge, if you
cannot accept that without responding with insults
then thats your problem, not mine!

Back to the issue in hand, vote YES for a bright future,
next time round the CC will have the mismanagment where
we want them.

[Leg]

Not at all son, backbone intact!

So we get less days off than the average worker? Doubt it!
And we get more holidays too, other than Teachers perhaps!

I do not think this is a bad deal, its the best we can get at
this time, we need to draw the line somewhere, and you should
also be aware if it is rejected, New Road will NOT support a strike,
perhaps some IA, but a strike, no chance.

Regroup and fight another day, we have the upper hand. :ok:

[Burpbot]

Leg old son, you make me smile if you want to vote yes do so! But if you want a life before 2016 you won't have a leg to stand on ;)

[Leg]

Two good legs to stand on thanks son :p Maybe getting a little knackered now though, its the knees you know... :uhoh:

Lots of private messages thanking me for speaking the truth, thank you
everyone, no need to message me, just mark a X at YES :D

[assymetricdrift]

Well, I'm going to put my neck on the line here and say that I've actually voted in favour of this deal.

I don't like the scheduling side of it as it relies on too much good will being risked in order to get good will back (and as far as I recall, this has never happened!). And also the agreement uses terms which are open to incredible amounts of interpretation, and leave gaping holes in our defence. BUT... we do have the ace card here. If the company do not live up to these rules that they have set, then in 6 months time, then we can ballot for the strike then, on the idea that the agreement has been broken, or was never intended in the first place.

In reality, the pay side of things - well how much do you want? We all want more... and not a single one of us would turn down a 15% payrise if we were offered it? But is it correct? No. It's not... When the initial ballots came out, most of us said "We want RPI". So we get an offer at RPI, and now people are saying that it isn't enough. We'll never be able to extract more than 2% for the year that we've lost - there's no chance that will ever budge. I don't like next year being capped, but there's going to be little chance of getting that to budge too.

But we've also got to consider the Holiday pay which will add another little bit onto our figures too.

I'll be the first person to be critical of financial incentives offered to directors and high up management and the company. But in this case, we asked for an RPI linked payrise, and that's what we got.

It takes good will from both sides to make this work, let's just hope that it is shown from the company. If it's not, then we ballot for the strike and hit them then. It will give us a much firmer ground than the one we are on right now!

[slystallone]

Enjoy the next 5 years. Losers.

[assymetricdrift]

Very mature.

[speedrestriction]

Our terms and conditions are not going to go from second or third rate to BOAC overnight. If viewed in the context of an incremental improvement it is a fair (albeit not stellar) deal. As previously stated, if in six months time we - the union - are not satisfied that the company are adhering to the agreement, we can vote for IA.

When we go back to negotiate in eighteen months time I imagine we will find the management more willing to engage in meaningful talks. If not I will be looking to the CC to get tough a lot quicker than they have done this time around.

[slystallone]

What you on about second or third rate?! It's fourth at best.

Just wait until all the FO's leave and your flying with a load of spotty MPL holders. Then it'll be fifth rate. Like I say Enjoy it! I'm sure half of you can find some positives in all this.

Also it's going to be good fun flying with Thomas cook B757 FOs I'm sure they'll have a good laugh at the flymaybe T&C's...

[Lord Spandex Masher]

I don't see how flying with some MPLs affects terms and conditions.

What do you want? Three days off and a disruption payment after flying with one?!

[slystallone]

No I just dont like the idea of the stick shaker going off every other sector, taking off with the wrong flap setting, alt busts, not being paid to act as a TRI, bleeds off at FL100, gear down in the cruise, flap 35 go arounds etc

[Leg]

Look son, if you feel that MPL holders are in any way unsafe then
address your concerns to the CAA, they would like to hear from you... No? Didn't think so, you would rather come on here and spout hogwash.

Good to see some sensible responses to my common sense.

Time to stand up and be counted and take control of our own destiny.

[SmilingKnifed]

Have we recently had a bellend-specific recruitment drive? The quality of this thread appears to have nosedived.

[Piloto2011]

So anyone want to hazard a guess as to when DEP might get a call from HR? :hmm:

[speedrestriction]

Complete speculation but at a guess DEC Sept 2012

[Deano777]

DEC? You sure speedrestriction?

SpeedRestriction is right about Sept, I heard a massive rumour stating the same, but DEP of course :O

[Piloto2011]

Okay, thanks for that. But puhleeease say, it was a typing error and September this year? :eek:

[skysoarer]

I'll be voting in favour of the deal. It's probably as good as we're gonna get. I doubt it can get any more fatiguing to be honest, and any improvement is something in the current economic climate.

Mine went in the post today. :)

[Leg]

As good as we can get, for now.

Its up to us (not the people on this thread who do not even belong
to the flybe family), to get a CC elected who will fight for the
improvements we deserve at the next pay talks.

This company has expansion plans, just read through the
info which PBM's have provided in the crew rooms, you will see
that Flybe Nordic alone will be nearly the size of the UK operation
in as little as 3 or 4 years. There are other deals in the pipeline
too.

By accepting this offer we are seen as team players, but then we
can get our ducks in a row for the next talks, the economy will
be improving by then, other airlines will be recruiting, everything will
be in our favour, right now the environment favours the mismanagement.

Vote YES, but if you have not by now you are too darn late!

[Desk-pilot]

I have no specific info from the inside other than as a line pilot I know the majority of FO's/SFO's I am acquainted with and a moderate % of Captains have been polishing their application forms for BA. As other carriers open their doors too this Winter I would expect an significant number of current Flybe pilots to apply to Easy/exec jets/charters etc.

On this basis I think it highly likely we will be reopening the doors to recruitment this year, however I wouldn't expect many DEC's because there a huge number of command ready FO's already here so expect recruitment to be FO level only

[sk8erboi]

As mentioned above it's a real shame to be accepting this derisory offer when you are already looking ahead to when it can be improved. Do you honestly think that by rolling over now at the first sign of actually having to do anything other than put a cross in a box you are sendig a message to the management which says you won't be messed with? Or are you in effect saying that you're a weak group so string us along for a while then make the offer you no doubt had in mind from day one.

By accepting this offer we are seen as team players, but then we
can get our ducks in a row for the next talks, the economy will
be improving by then, other airlines will be recruiting, everything will
be in our favour
Do you honestly think that having not accepted any offers until now management think you are 'team players'.!!!! Do you think they care at all? Given your sceduling agreement I would think not. And common sense would contradict your argument re future recruitment. If I ran a small airline where people traditionally moved up to bigger and better things I would address the package now to try and stop people even looking. But Flybe is a training airline in the management eyes, always has been and will be so I suspect you'll find they won't care what the market does.

however I wouldn't expect many DEC's because there a huge number of command ready FO's already here so expect recruitment to be FO level only


DP I hope you're right. But given the level of respect you have been shown by management, and given that it will be generally skippers who leave first as better airlines snap up your experienced guys, don't be surprised to find that there is a need for Captains immediately, leading to DEC recruitment to fill the gap.

Anyone who thinks that the crew have scored a victory here is an apologist. Flybe are making a fortune, buying up airlines where the crews earn a lot more, and keeping you on low pay. Whilst the management reward themselves massively. Now I accept they take the risks hence they have a right to better remuneration, but come one, where does it stop when JF earns more than Willie Walsh. BA pilots wouldn't stand for what you do, grow some backbone for your own sakes.

[Leg]

What a load of drivel :mad:

Like I said, ignore the uniformed tosh from people outside.

The future is bright, the future is a sky blue colour... :p

(Good luck to those that want to go to BA, Easy etc,
but it will be f/o's they recruit, maybe younger Capts,
the crusties are going no where, so I am bugg@red). :*

[slystallone]

Leg your an idiot. Bet your based up in Inverness, shaft everyone else keep your cushy lifestyle. I hope the company close these pointless bases.

[CRX]

I don't know who 'Leg' is or whether he is based at INV, but I take offence at the dig at INV crew.
I AM INV based, Q400 Captain (so that narrows it down to 5). Lets compare rosters MR 195 skipper, cushy? Not here.
As for closing 'pointless bases', so much for supporting other crew.
I will tell that to my two children under 3, who would suffer major upset were that to happen.
Put your vote in and then chill. The majority will win, that's democracy. In the meantime keep beating the doors at BA, I'll take your job.

[slystallone]

I'm afraid that will only happen if I take another 500 people with me :p

[superdash]

Some of the rantings in this thread are pathetic and I think probably a side effect of the lack of professionalism displayed by the operator on a daily basis especially when dealing with its pilots.

Anyway I have the following info from a reliable source down in EXT:

All 175 after 2012 to go to Flybe Nordic, this is as there is no room for expansion in the uk and the jet simply cant compete with the dash for cost on short secx i.e. SOU - GUR, BHD - GLA etc especially with the low low load factor average 63% (poor compared with almost every other airline)

Flybe UK will maybe get some ATR's with pilots transferred on to this type with a new payscale for any new joiners circa £41k cpt half that for FO. The company has hundreds of applications ready to process to counteract the coming exodus.

Another one which I partly agree with: PBM's to be gotten rid of as they cost alot of money and basically do nothing of any value, they will be replaced with a base administrator i.e. a pregnant crew member

Interesting times ahead I think. Hopefully the YES vote will prevail (my opinion only)

[Snigs]

Added to the above,

All Dashes to go by 2020
Target UK fleet ratio 50:50 Jet:TP

Not sure BALPA will allow the pay cut for Cpt transferring to the ATR though!

[JSCL]

I think @assymetricdrift is right, I was looking at flights recently MAN to BRU and only reluctantly chose Flybe. Brussels Airlines tickets on the RJ85's were £150pp more, but I was prepared to pay it, but ultimately settled for a Fybe dash with a 15 min slower flight time.

[No RYR for me]

Haha willing to pay GBP150 extra to fly on an aircraft that is known to poison its passengers and crew.. Not me: give me a dash anyday :) Just the luggage space is cr@p..

Sorry for the thread drift... :p

[Otto Throttle]

Of course the mangement are prepared to lower the bar - they're likely to have just been given a mandate from the pilots to continue trampling our Ts & Cs into the dirt. That's what happens when you vote "yes" to a bad deal at a time when you had a strong bargaining position. :ugh:

All this talk of making a batter deal in 18 months - utter tosh. You had a golden opportunity to do that now. EZ, RYR and BA/IAG have all reported a massive upswing in profitability and pax numbers this year, but so many of you fell for the guff that your future has to be based on last year's results. If Flybe don't show results that follow that same trend this year, then I'm pretty sure the shareholders will be showing Jim how the exit works.

And Flybe Nordic? Well, let me predict now, that Flybe UK payscales will be totally separate and any improvements based on UK business performance. Nordic - and any other additional European spin-offs - will be managed separately to the UK business and their performance will not be considered by the UK management in negotiating UK salaries. So anyone holding out hope that the European expansion will miraculously lead to better UK salaries is most likley to be sorely disappointed.

But if you voted "yes", then you brought it on your own head.

[BluffOldSeaDog]

All 175's after 2012 to FlyBE Nordic, give me a break. JF by his own admission can't wait to get rid of as many of the 8s as possible.

78%-22% Yes, SA still has holes you could drive a crew sandwich though but the Joint Committee will allow for adjustments which weren't possible under the old T&Cs. Congrats to the CC for all the work they've put in

[Burpbot]

well thats that then!

[six-sixty]

There won't be any "love in"! We had to take the company to the edge of the abyss before they then, kicking and screaming, came up with the very bare minimum of an acceptable offer, much of which was already promised us before. People have long memories, and the vote result reflects the proportion of pilots who are actively looking to leaving soon, hopefully now the BA logjam has been cleared and opportunities open up elsewhere.

I only voted yes as i didn't feel it was bad enough to justify striking over it. But as a package dressed up with a pink ribbon emblazoned with some syrupy words from JF representing a "new Dawn"? I don't think so.

Btw, who knew that we won't start to get our "long" 60 hr weekends (i say again, paid for in negotiations 3 years ago) until NOVEMBER??? :=

[Goldwings]

Now that the threat of industrial action is over, I wonder how long it will be till the big announcement!

[slystallone]

If you were daft enough to vote YES then you now have NO right to moan about Pay or Scheduling.

[darkbarly]

November introduction of revised SA was in BALPA/CC newsletter early July with jims revised pay offer. Rosterers work three months ahead so Nov makes sense.

Personally I would worry more about backpay being taxed at this years rates??:confused:

[Leg]

What big announcement?? :ooh:

[Cutoff]

C'mon, you know, the BIG announcement!

[assymetricdrift]

It's something to do with the big picture being upgraded from a Picasso to a Salvador Dali I guess?

http://www.arthistoryguide.com/images/199.jpg

[Toastal]

You get what you voted for folks, don't moan on here when you're permanently doing 6 on 3 off for below industry standard pay. As for a 50/50 fleet, what a load of tosh. Nordic will be as big, if not bigger than the UK operation witin 3 yrs, and guess were all your shiny jets and jet pay will go. The Q400 will NEVER fly for Noridc, and wether it's 8's or ATR's. it'll be TP's and TP salaries for all, no question.

[SmilingKnifed]

More like wax crayon and bits of glued on macaroni

[Boing7117]

Give over Toastal. 6 on 3 off could never work all the time in practice, they'd end up giving us more days off in a month - which, as they've already stated is something they are not prepared to budge on.

To maintain the majority of Q400's in the UK, or dare I say it, downgrade the UK operation towards ATR's is also unlikely to happen. There will be a shift towards a 50/50 split. There has to be. The UK operation isn't just going to stagnate and taper off into the sunset. There's a new focus with the Nordic operation, yes, but not at the expense of the UK one.

The commericial dept have already put forward the need for Jets in the UK at bases like BHX and MAN. It's already formed the bidding process for this current bid and as you well know, there are several bods already trained up and ready to go... when they get here.

You think Flybe are gonna say, "Right, we've got 'em. Pull the Jets out of the UK, let's give 'em to our Nordic friends and give that go-ahead for the ATR's." Spare me.

If they do Toastal, I'll eat my epaulettes.

[JASPA]

would you like chili or barbecue sauce with them:D

[Prob40]

Now if you had asked me two years ago I would say it would be unlikely BE would ever get ATRs given how geared the airline is to the Dash, but being an ATR pilot I have been to ATR at TLS recently for my Sim check and I can tell you now that people from BE were there at ATR's Sim-base looking round!:eek:

Given the fact that ATRs are a lot cheaper to run and maybe a bit more reliable than the Q400 while only having 6 less seats that, let's face it, BE don't seem to fill most of the time anyway, IF BE did not have so many Q4s it would make even more sense.

Problem is this, ATR can't build the new 600 fast enough or train flightcrew quick enough! Orders have been rolling in as Airlines in the east can't get enough of them and Q4s just don't make sense unless you have sectors that are very, very long.

The net effect is if BE think they can get people like me to work for £41k Capt / £21K FO (as someone suggested) then they must be joking! Why would I do that when I can get $8200 to $10,000 pm tax free in the far east, more when China gets ATRs and even a FO can get $6500 pm and GR pay @£3100 pm after tax minimum for an ATR Capt! There Just isn't a significant enough difference between the ATR and a Q4 to warrant the difference in pay.

Really I wish all my friends at BE all the best and hope things pick up soon. .....:E

[BluffOldSeaDog]

Why wouldn't "people" from FlyBE be looking round an ATR sim, they own an airline that flies ATRs. Were these people identified as FlyBE Europe or FlyBE UK, there is a difference

[flyingcamel]

Always nice to come back from leave to discover you've been signed up to a honking load of old ..... Until 2016! Used my vote, alas not good enough. Hey ho, best keep head down, bottom in the air, love beads and toilet roll in the fridge.

At least I got that application done whilst on a beach ;-)

Retreats with fingers elevated, facing Exeter.

[Love_joy]

FlyingCamel, out of interest what exactly would have made you happy?

Also, would you have been willing to strike with that last offer on the table? Could you justify striking with a 7.3% pay rise on offer? I think not.

But your opinion is symptomatic of the recent company culture, there are plenty of us who feel bitter and twisted by the management tactics, the underhanded way in which this was sold to us in its original form.

The company have an uphill struggle to repair the relationship. We have a duty to remember how the last 18 months played out, and to make sure we don't walk that path again.

In the meantime, good luck with BA. This was obviously never the job for you

[flyingcamel]

Very easily said from the Ejet SFO scale lovejoy.

My vote actually would have been a yes, had scheduling not been a five year deal. I believe there's not enough improvement to merit signing up for five years of 'very little change.' An expiry of April 2013 on the new SA with a commitment to start negotiations sometime IN 2012 would have been closer to the mark. After all the aim is to improve things for us in the short term as well as for the joiners in 2020. I want a fair deal as well!

I have witnessed what this current scheduling agreement and company culture have done to young enthusiastic SFOs once they reach the LHS. I now know a hefty crop of young, jaded, overworked, pissed off Captains.

You're welcome to your opinion, the rest of the membership are entitled to theirs, and I'm certainly entitled to mine.

:ok:

PS it isn't the job for me with this SA. Neither should it be anyone's, and that's my point. Enjoy that Dash command when it comes, just remember it's always at a price.

[Leg]

Well thats the whole pay talk thing over with for the time being,
and the right decision was made, with the overwhelming Yes vote
that's a secure mandate to move forward. But no resting on laurels,
I for one will be looking to the CC for a marked improvement in 18
months time.

With the economy slowing, looks like alot of people will be staying
with us for some time, lets all try to pull together and ensure the
company does well and then we will deserve and indeed demand
a better deal in the future. Good luck to those who get into
BA, there are some switched on people in this company and
good luck to them wherever they end up.

On a different matter, the situation with Sharesave is poor. This
type of thing makes HR look bad, if they can look any worse than
the loosers they already are. When is this company going to
wake up to inept HR?

How long now for boywonder after his huge, expensive Ejet cock up? :mad:

[Boing7117]

I have to agree regarding the Sharesave scheme. It's badly thought out and quite clearly, dreadfully implemented.

On paper, like most things, it was a no-brainer. An excellent opportunity to invest our own money in our company, and reap the rewards, as Jim so cleverly put it, allowing employees to benefit from the success of the business.

Hmmm.

[Burpbot]

Seems only management and directors are allowed to invest more than a round of drinks! O well I guess its the promised caring sharing new era of relations promised if we were good and conned into voting yes! Be interesting to see how the shares in vaseline go towards the end of November ;)

[Lord Spandex Masher]

How's it all going then?

[redED]

Rumour is the cabin crew are heading towards work to rule - good for them!

[Otto Throttle]

Long overdue. Give the Cabin Services management a taste of their own medicine - petty implementation of the small print in every policy & procedure.

[Leg]

Balpa will have to show resolve to ensure the agreed deal is honoured, interesting times from now until April to see what transpires. Thought the pay deal was a 'done deal' just goes to show, nothing is ever set in stone. :\

[redED]

Note cabin crew NOT flight deck! BALPA have nothing to do with it, you need to look to UNITE instead.

[redED]

Aaah I see what you're getting at. Apparently 0% doesn't apply to flight deck and we'll still get our 5.5%.

[Leg]

Balpa are being asked to think of the viability of the business and agree to 0% for the this year, many f/o's need the increase so this will be unpopular.

[redED]

Looks like a categorical no from BALPA and so it should, most firm they've stood in a while!

[Otto Throttle]

We'll see. All the brave words spoken about nailing the directors to the floor this year for pay negotiations as justification for caving in like a paper bag last time. Time to show whether you have a backbone then or not BALPA, or if you'll roll over and play nice for Jim like you always do.

My goodwill has reduced by 99.9% this last year, and I couldn't care less how desperate Jim and his cronies are for my help to dig them out the ****. Not taking a pay rise or bonus? Wow! What a commitment. How about you take a pay cut Jim that adequately reflects how badly Flybe have underperformed the UK economy, the transport sector, the UK scheduled airline industry and the woeful performance of the Flybe share price? Something tells me that the cosy little mutual back-scratching deal the board have with the non-executive directors will still see them all go home to bed as rich men.

Sympathy? Yep, I'm sure you know where to find it in the dictionary.

[SmilingKnifed]

I can't help but get the feeling that as a company, our eye has been off the ball in the UK while Nordic is launched.

Obviously this doesn't apply to the operational guys and gals and more to the decorational staff at board level. I don't think our product is as eye catching or our prices competitive enough. Sadly at my base, the loads seem to reflect this (and it's downright depressing seeing 150 punters boarding the EZY, going to the same destination).