Ash clouds threaten air traffic

[Juud]

http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/112/112826/11282656/jpg/active/503x.jpg

A mail flight taking off from Bodø Wednesday evening reported ash clouds. The Bodø airport was therefore the first airport to be closed down; the rest of North-Norway followed shortly thereafter.
The rest of the country could be affected tomorrow.

The ash comes from the volcanic activity on Iceland and is now reaching Norwegian airspace. Which can have serious consequences for air traffic.

- We are now evaluating meteorological reports from London relating to the development of these ash clouds. Ash and airplanes are a bad combination. We will decide at about 20.00 hrs what we´ll do regarding Norwegian air traffic. In the worst case scenario, we will close off the entire airspace, says Raymond Ingebretsen, boss of the ATC facility at Bodø.

Vulcanic video link (http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/nordland/1.7080574)

http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/112/112826/11282608/jpg/active/960x.jpg

Forecast for tomorrow 12.00 hrs. The red line is where the ash will be from ground level to 20 000 ft. The green line shows the aerea where air traffic might have problems between 20 000 and 35 000 ft. The blue line is a smaller area between 35 000 and 50 000ft

[proxus]

According to current wind and wind predcitions, Norway airspace may close totally tomorrow as well as part of the Russian airpspace.
Lot's of unhappy flyers tomorrow then.

Here's a link to one of the webcams pointed at the eruption.
Eyjafjallajökull frá Valahnúk (http://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjallajokull-fra-valahnjuk/)

[Pugilistic Animus]

http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/ATpubs/AIM/Chap7/aim0705.html#7-5-9

check NoTams and the VAFTAD:zzz:

Satellite Services Division Washington VAAC - VAFTAD (http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/VAAC/vaftad.html)

[grebllaw123d]

From "Iceland Review Online":

14/04/2010 | 13:18
Flights Limited Due to New Iceland Eruption
Instrument flights at or below 30,000 feet have been banned in the area north and east of the eruption area. Because of this, all domestic flights to Egilsstadir and Hornafjördur have been cancelled.
According to Hjördís Gudmundsdóttir, information officer for the Civil Aviation Administration, it is probable that the banned area will soon expand to the northeast and extend all the way to Norway and possibly Russia. This has not happened yet, though.

[Nemrytter]

This is a little confusing to me. The London VAAD (which monitors the Iceland sector) is reporting some information about the plume, including the graphic in the first post.
However, the satellite they use to generate such data is not showing any volcanic ash plume, and neither is any other source of information. It's not even cloudy over quite large portions of the airspace between Iceland and Norway, let alone ash laden.

(edit) Although most of Northern Iceland appears to be covered.

[beaver liquor]

The UK ATICCC (Air Traffic Co-ordination and Communication Cell) has been activated at 21.25 UTC:

"Due to estensive ash cloud from Icelandic Volcanic eruption it is predicted that UK airspace will be affected from 15th April. NOTAMS are being issued."

[commit aviation]

Rumours that airfields north of BHX could be affected from 0600z tomorrow.
Could be an interesting day!

[loubylou]

A good time to be on leave with no travel plans then I guess :p

louby

[Pugilistic Animus]

Juud Thanks for the PiRep ;)


The sarcasm in my post was a kinda ground school reminder for the airfolks ;)

not to you:)

[EHkodiak]

Anyone got any links to any EuroControl information on the airspace above EGBB being closed from 0600z onwards?

[atcomarkingtime]

A planned closure of local airspce is expected to have a consideration impact upon passengers flying in and out of Aberdeen Airport on Thursday 15 April. The closure has been enforced by the air traffic control services, NATS, as a result of volcanic ash which is drifting toward the country from Iceland.

Thats what BAA Aberdeen say

[On the beach]

Met. Office reporting plume up to 11km (36,000ft) high with lightning in the plume over Iceland. So I guess it's still erupting and spewing ash. Looks like the airspace around Aberdeen will be closed by NATS shortly according to their web site.

On the beach

[EHkodiak]

This seems to have the latest forecasts. Looks like its going to cover the country by 1800z

Met Office: Volcanic Ash Advisory Centres (http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/aviation/vaac/vaacuk_vag.html)

[davidjohnson6]

I'm not that familiar with what the aftermath of significant volcanic eruptions, but I'm puzzled as to the rather large area indicated by the London VAAC. I;m aware that volcanoes can throw up vast quantities of solid material, but in particular, what kind of density of ash does the line delineate ?

Is this a
1) "Anyone on the ground in this area should close their windows and not go out" advisory
2) "Do not fly within this area because your engines may fail" advisory
3) "There might be a tiny bit of ash floating around, but nothing to have any particular impact on aviation" advisory ?

[lomapaseo]

Is this a
1) "Anyone on the ground in this area should close their windows and not go out" advisory
2) "Do not fly within this area because your engines may fail" advisory
3) "There might be a tiny bit of ash floating around, but nothing to have any particular impact on aviation" advisory ?

1. This is airborne threat not a fallout ground threat

2. Yes it is a do not fly or else

3. Of course it's a warning for a threat which could have a significant impact on your safe operation. Whether you take it as advisory or not depends on how it is transmitted to you.

[avoman]

easyJet have cancelled all departures from the North of England and Scotland until further notice!

[MancRy]

Really? Some departures still showing ex MAN on aims.

[On the beach]

Edinburgh expecting major disruptions on 15th April due to volcanic ash cloud, according to BBC travel news.

[scotsunflyer]

Edinburgh closed

[BluffOldSeaDog]

FlyBE cancelling services ex MAN, back to bed for me then

[dwshimoda]

Just had my AGP cancelled with all LBA departures cancelled - going to be an interesting day...

Back to bed for another few hours...

[Mr @ Spotty M]

This could be the final nail in the coffin lid for some operators if this does shut down all airspace in the UK and beyond.:uhoh:
My limited knowledge of the weather, it seems that we will be dragging in air from that area for a few more days yet, could be a very quite weekend.:{

[M609]

Quiet day for some today.....perhaps not the airline call centers..... :)

https://www.cfmu.eurocontrol.int/PUBPORTAL/gateway/spec/PORTAL.14.0.0.P.254.53/_res/closed_airspace_2010_04_15_0610utc.gif

There is a meeting at 0600Z to update the conditions for Oslo AOR, but it looks like they will zero rate it at about 0800Z.

[fisbangwollop]

Q) Egxx/qafxx/iv/nbo/e/000/999/5441n00219w999
B) From: 10/04/15 12:00c) To: 10/04/15 17:59
E) A Volcanic Ash Cloud, Originating In Iceland, Is Having A
Major Impact
Affecting Uk Airspace.
Uk Area Affected:
610000n 0100000w
610000n 0000000w
600000n 0000000w
570000n 0050000e
550000n 0050000e
515700n 0022100w
515800n 0031019w
513932n 0031018w
511535n 0020000w
500016n 0012236w
500000n 0020000w
492841n 0045500w
493134n 0060307w
493842n 0080000w
510000n 0080000w
522000n 0053000w
533837n 0053000w
553100n 0025600w
575900n 0033800w
601609n 0100000w
Operators Should Refer To Va Advisory 1004150000 For Further
Information.
In Accordance With Icao Volcanic Ash Contingency Plan, No Ifr
Clearance Will Be Issued For Penetration Of The Forecast Contaminated
Area That Lies Within Uk Airspace. B0687/10

[ben_keghead]

easyJet have cancelled the 1st wave departures from northern airfields, including LPL & MAN.

Flight Departures Checker (http://holidays.easyjet.com/FlightCheck/flightdepartures.aspx?lang=en) For the latest flight information

[Fargoo]

BA have cancelled all domestic services for the 15th

British Airways News - Latest BA News (http://www.britishairways.com/travel/flightops/public/en_gb?p_faqid=4002)

[Sprogget]

Capt. Eric Moody's flight 28 years ago is illustrative.

British Airways Flight 9 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9)

[manrow]

Flight cancellations now spreading to Newquay and Exeter in the south west of England; local media reporting applies to routes north of the listed airfields.

[Meeb]

ALL UK Airspace now CLOSED... :uhoh:

[Nemrytter]

The cloud still appears to be very, very, thin and dispersed. Still, better safe than sorry.
It's currently just reached the North of Scotland, an hour ago the situation looked like this, the dark color being ash:
http://oiswww.eumetsat.org/IPPS/html/MSG/RGB/ASH/ICELAND/IMAGESDisplay/HxoQZlgSBaEbp

[biddedout]

Lets hope the overnight inbounds to the UK and Europe were pre-warned.

Since 31 Mar and the grounding of the Nimrod fleet, the UK has had no effective long range SAR cover. := Not a good time to have major diversions and the associated low fuel concerns.

[Just wondering]

Not withstanding airport closures - Does anyone know if this will affect low level VFR traffic

[manrow]

Cannot be absolutely certain but the ash cloud is presently afflicting the higher levels, so would expect your vfr flight to be unaffected.

[fisbangwollop]

From the Notam I posted earlier only applies to IFR flights at the moment....In Accordance With Icao Volcanic Ash Contingency Plan, No Ifr
Clearance Will Be Issued For Penetration Of The Forecast Contaminated
Area That Lies Within Uk Airspace. B0687/10:cool::cool::cool:

[beamer]

Please please please don't drag Eric Moody out again !

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<ALL UK Airspace now CLOSED... >>

That does not appear to be the case at 06:34. Heathrow inbounds are very busy and a Finnair flight has just taken off.. Looks a bit quiet north of London though!

[wiggy]

Please please please don't drag Eric Moody out again

Too late - he's just been on Sky and to be fair did a decent job of fielding some fairly innane questions from our Charlotte:ok:......then again it is a topic he should know something about.

[dolly7]

News channels are reporting that all UK airspace is closed, yet according to Gatwick website, flights are still departing from there. Can anybody clarify please?

[green granite]

According to Heathrow the only cancelled stuff is that heading North, South bound flights are still operating at the moment.

BAA Heathrow: Flight departures today at Heathrow Airport | Live Heathrow Airport departures (http://www.heathrowairport.com/portal/page/Heathrow%5EGeneral%5EFlight+information%5EHeathrow+departure s/)

[Meeb]

oops... should have said... Scottish Airspace is closed, all airports in Scotland are closed to Traffic, but looking at the VAAC predictions, more to come unfortunately....

[763 jock]

All quiet here... (www.radarvirtuel.com)

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Wonder whether the airlines will be assisted by the government a la farmers when they have some act of God that causes them hardship??

[Nopax,thanx]

Pretty quiet but still the odd flight out of STN. Air Berlin just departed for NUE.

[scr1]

feel sorry for all the checkin staff who have to deal with the SLF who just dont understand and start giving them a lot of abuse

[BigAl94]

Early news reports suggest it could be several days as the volcano is still spewing out large amounts of ash.

[Right Engine]

BA plan to cancel all departures W.E.F. 1200 local time.

[brian.crissie]

and that would explain BAW24 from KORD to Heathrow...well...just landing back at KORD at 0220 local

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/981/screenshot20100415at224.png

[Sir Richard]

Much more effective than UNITE/BASSA.....:E

[RoyHudd]

Are we reacting too quickly, given that the dustcloud is not yet near many of the closed airports? Obviously as the dustcloud's presence manifests itself, then no flights can take place near it. No flames please, just reasoned answers, if I am myself over-reacting!!

(I have myself diverted due to a volcanic eruption in Sicily which closed Catania while we were en-route. We spent a nice 24 hours in Palermo!)

[mustpost]

BA News minutes ago

Last updated: 08:25 15 April 2010

There was a large volcanic eruption in Iceland on Wednesday April 14.

Due to the weather conditions, a plume of volcanic ash has now spread southwards towards northern Europe and is severely affecting all airlines' flight activity in the area.
For safety reasons and on the direction from Air Traffic Control Service (Nats) a decision has been made to cancel a number of flights and close all London airports. As a result ALL airlines will be impacted and we will therefore not be able to operate services after 11.30am from London Heathrow, London Gatwick and London City.

[Three Mile Final]

There are still movements at Gatwick but looking over the ramp I can see 19 easy tails .... easy are certainly stacking up and the remote stands are getting used. Looks like anything south and east bound is still getting away but nothing to north and west.

[ballyctid]

Flying MAN-CGN tonight with Germanwings, just called the call centre and they didn't know the problems! in fact she thought I was a spoof caller when I told her!! She says all is well and the flight will go... I won't hold my breath.

[Jonty]

Are we reacting too quickly, given that the dustcloud is not yet near many of the closed airports? Obviously as the dustcloud's presence manifests itself, then no flights can take place near it.

I would agree with you Roy, but I would not want to be the one making that decision.

And also just because its not showing up on the visible radar picture does not mean its not here but in lower concentrations.

I'm supposed to be flying this afternoon and tomorrow, looks like I may have a few days spare.

[D120A]

If this goes on and we cannot fly, they'll have to rename this website PPLuMe. :hmm:

[Bern Oulli]

Subject to coverage, Live Radar (http://www.flightradar24.com/#) gives an idea of where aircraft are not. Still seem to be some flights out of Oslo.

[wilyflier]

Torquay Southern UK 0700,Z
Without having heard the news today I looked out of the window for a weather check , and remarked upon an unusual thick band of crappy haze.
Whats all that stuff? I thought, no flying for me today?
Actually its improved a lot now

[Royalistflyer]

Just in case anyone thinks that this is too much being careful - I was on the BA flight that lost all four engines simultaneously in '82 due to volcanic dust ingestion. Trust me - you can't necessarily see the dust - but it's lethal ....... 350 people furiously learning to pray - in a very quiet aeroplane - with NO land visible - just sea.

[beamer]

Presumably the rest of western europe is shutting down as well or is this purely a UK problem ? If the issue is ony affecting higher altitudes - how long before operators try and leave UK at lower levels before climbing outside the affected area ? Damn, missed Uncle Eric ! Never mind, could be a nice sunset............:E

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Royalistflyer...... At least you have reason to appreciate Eric! I flew with him once; he was a real character. Had a great time. ..... especially when I said: "I understand you know something about volcanoes".

[beamer]

Could have been worse - might have dragged out John Nichol !

[Squawk_ident]

Update Following The Volcanic Ash Teleconference
------------------------------------------------
.
In Accordance With Icao Regulations Atc Units Cannot Issue Ifr
Clearances To Traffic In Areas Affected By Or Forecast To Be
Affected By The Volcanic Ash Cloud
.
This Means That Zero Rates Have Been Applied For:
.
All Scottish Airspace
.
London Airspace North Of Birmingham
.
Copenhagen Northern Airspace. Southern Sectors Will Be Restricted
With Zero Rate From 1000 Utc
.
Oslo Airspace
.
Stavanger Airspace.
.
Stockholm North Sectors
.
The Above Are Currently Unavailable To Ifr Traffic. The Following
Areas Are Foreseen To Be Restricted Later In The Day:
.
Information Just Received That All London Sectors Will Not
Be Available To Ifr Traffic From 1100 Utc Until 1800 Utc
.
Dublin Airspace Will Be Restricted By Zero Rate From 1100 Utc
.
Shannon Airspace May Be Closed To Ifr Traffic Shortly But This Is
Under Review. This Would Mean T9 And T16 Would Not Be Available
.
Notams Will Be Issued By Relevant National Authorities Concerning
Route Availability Outside These Areas
.
All Traffic Operating Nat Should Load Extra Fuel In Anticipation
Of
Lower Than Optimal Fl Allocation. This Includes Traffic Operating
On T9 And T16
.
At This Time Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam, Frankfurt And
*
All Other Aerodromes South Of The North Sea And English
Channel Are Unaffected.
.
Next Teleconference Will Be At 1000 Utc. Details In A Separate Aim
.
Regards,
Network Operations
Cfmu
Brussels

[FullWings]

Latest ash map (http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/aviation/vaac/data/VAG_1271309704.png), no wonder UK airspace is being shut down.

[beamender99]

British Airways News - Latest BA News (http://www.britishairways.com/travel/flightops/public/en_gb?p_faqid=4002)


Disruption due to volcanic eruption in Iceland

Summary
Last updated: 08:25 15 April 2010

There was a large volcanic eruption in Iceland on Wednesday April 14.

Due to the weather conditions, a plume of volcanic ash has now spread southwards towards northern Europe and is severely affecting all airlines' flight activity in the area.

For safety reasons and on the direction from Air Traffic Control Service (Nats) a decision has been made to cancel a number of flights and close all London airports. As a result ALL airlines will be impacted and we will therefore not be able to operate services after 11.30am from London Heathrow, London Gatwick and London City.

All British Airways domestic services have been cancelled on Thursday 15 April.

The safety of our customers, crew and aircraft is of paramount importance and will not be compromised.

[dope05]

NATS site has now crashed. :confused:

[CRX]

Sqawk Ident,
That explains it to me thanks.
No IFR clearances, no airline flights.
Simples!

Thanks,

[poppiholla]

According to 5Live BAA say Heathrow and Stansted are closed from 1200 local.

If it's coming south any ideas whether this will affect Brussels and Amsterdam ?

[fc101]

Finnish northern areas are restricted/closed. Most northbound flights out of Helsinki are cancelled. Morning southbound flights from northern Finland and Lapland have been flown to Helsinki.

fc101
E145 driver

[Bearcat]

working ex LHR 2m....looks like a day off from the charts.

[R44-pilot]

Guys anyone care to make a guess how long this will affect flights for?

[22 Degree Halo]

I have "pinched" this from a weather forum. It explains much:


If the non-volcanic cloud layers disperse or have large enough gaps, you should easily be able to see these volcanic ash layers. They will look like dirty cirrus or more properly cirro-stratus, and they should be drifting south at the height they are currently at (about 15-20k ft). They are not white like normal cirrus or even grey so much as a sort of light beige to brown colour, but they do start to resemble cirro-stratus ice crystal clouds from what I recall of similar intensity volcanic ash clouds here in 2008 (from Alaska). They won't block the sunlight by more than 5-10% and you may see parhelia (sundogs) associated. As to where and when I am gathering the more concentrated parts are over northern Scotland now but more dispersed early segments are probably visible as far south as central England.

I expect this will get worse in terms of disruption and better in terms of viewability because it will take probably at least 3-5 days for this initial burst to disperse even if the volcano stops erupting shortly, which of course is not a given -- and the weather pattern favours more direct delivery of the ash plume to the British Isles as time passes now to Sunday. However by Sunday with that cold front coming through, the skies may become too cloudy to see the volcanic ash, yet at the same time the more turbulent conditions may bring some concentrations down towards the surface and have an impact, possibly moderate (I would doubt severe) on air quality or health considerations for the vulnerable.

Just to give you an idea, when Mount St Helens blew in 1980, ash fell to a thickness of a millimetre at a distance downwind about equivalent to northwest Scotland in this case (it fell to much larger depths closer to the volcano but by analogy those locations would be over the ocean except for the Faeroes which could conceivably see a half inch ash fall from a major Icelandic eruption).

I have the feeling this might cause disruption for over a week, it's bad luck that the wind direction is NW at upper levels for that whole period, more or less.

[rich_g85]

Somebody mentioned earlier about the possibility of regional turboprops using lower levels (outside CAS) to operate their flights.

I guess this would be a perfectly legal flight, but would the airline allow it in practice? Or would it contravene a policy or otherwise be deemed 'too risky' flying outside CAS?

[jamie2004]

what is the situation with the aircraft already enroute to the uk/northern europe from the US? Are they going to be given a more southerly routing, avoiding the affected airspace or turned back?
JG

[5milesbaby]

Surely flying the Turboprop's at lower levels is just as dangerous as flying right up to the last minute the cloud is expected to hit particular areas. Although the cloud is currently above 20000ft, what's to say it will not descend? What does the turboprop do then? If you cannot see the cloud & something at 15000ft gets affected, not much airspace left to restart & recover. Would you want to carry passengers with that risk? That's why the airspace is being closed "early" just incase the cloud drift speed increases or the fragments actually fronting the cloud aren't being picked up on satellite.

European Airports are being affected as all flights planned to route through UK airspace after 11:00z are suspended and will have to re-route via France/Spain.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

A flight out of Las Vegas with friends on was turned back to LV after 2 hours. Just landed back there. Live radar seems to show lots heading for Schipol or Geneva.

[MATaxi]

BBC News ticker quotes BAA as suspending all flights from LHR and STN from 1200BST.

[jamie2004]

No Flights Allowed Into British Airspace From 1100local

[Descend to What Height?!?]

If you look closely at the Volcanic Ash Advisory Centre charts from the Met Office, you will see the lowest levels the dust is expected is around 5000ft in some areas. Although the main plume is expected to be higher, it's the lower level stuff that is causing the problems for take off, landing etc.

Met Office: Volcanic Ash Advisory Centres (http://www.metoffice.com/aviation/vaac/index.html)

[adam.sh]

So, taking into account the current situation, and asking kindly for your expert opinions, does anyone have any idea where a CX flight currently en-route from HKG to LHR (due to land 16:00) might end up. Amsterdam? Paris? Frankfurt?

Thanks indeed!

[Flying Clogger]

BAA is shutting the UK airspace down after midday.... fine,

Responsible airlines have already made statements on their respective websites advising punters that:

BA will have no flights in or out of UK today
Ryanair will have no flights out of UK today

Ezy however still is dragging its arse...according to their website one should 'monitor the flight' before setting off....to a closed for business airport, I imagine?????

Com'on guys, if any of you orange boffins are reading this...

PULL YOUR FINGERS OUT

:confused::confused:

[peter we]

Guys anyone care to make a guess how long this will affect flights for?
Anything from a few days to a few years, the areas affected would depend on wind direction though. The last much smaller eruption lasted about a month.
There is still the danger the really big volcano could blow (I forget its name) as it did at least once before.

The cloud is even on its way to southern Poland..

Video of the eruption

Vísir - Magnað myndskeið af flóðinu (http://visir.is/article/20100414/FRETTIR01/366638533)

[Global Warrior]

Ezy however still is dragging its arse...according to their website one should 'monitor the flight' before setting off....to a closed for business airport, I imagine?????

Com'on guys, if any of you orange boffins are reading this...

PULL YOUR FINGERS OUT


They are waiting to give their 250 hour wannabees some much needed volvanic ash 1 Bravo departure experience!!!!

[cheekychappie]

Quote:
Ezy however still is dragging its arse...according to their website one should 'monitor the flight' before setting off....to a closed for business airport, I imagine?????

Com'on guys, if any of you orange boffins are reading this...

PULL YOUR FINGERS OUT
They are waiting to give their 250 hour wannabees some much needed volvanic ash 1 Bravo departure experience!!!!


information is being pulled together now and will be out in the domain shortly

[Flying Clogger]

@cheekychappie

Excellent, this could mean a nice evening in front of my telly instead of treapsing through LGW to try and get in for work!!


;)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Saw the EY ORD-AUH flight routing south of London. That's rather a long way from a Great Circle track>>

Those flights route over the UK frequently. Remember that aircraft do not necessarily fly Great Circle. Over the Atlantic much depends on weather systems and in Europe they fly laid down air routes.

[Ellis Hill]

Has UK airspace been closed for this long in recent history? Apart from the occasional ATC computer problem I'm struggling to think of an example. Even during those failures there were some movements.

[TwoStep]

September 11, 2001 was the last major airspace closure I guess?

[Suzeman]

Saw the EY ORD-AUH flight routing south of London. That's rather a long way from a Great Circle track - wonder how much longer it's going to take them?



This flight and many other N America - Gulf nonstops frequently pass over the UK en route - dependant on the Ocean tracks/ Jetstream locations.

However, interesting transits of airspace over Central UK before the airspace closed were SAS, Finnair and Aeroflot flights from N America to their home countries. They certainly were off the beaten track

Anyway, taking my anorak off, can anyone remember volcanic ash closing UK airspace before?. I can't and I've got my bus pass, so been around for a few years.

Suzeman

[captplaystation]

I was in France at the time so not sure for UK, but I remember the skies were awfully quiet post 9/11.

[UAV689]

wouldnt it be great with the airspace shut down we can all jump in our spam cans and over fly heathrow..it will give the controllers something to do! I have always wanted to overfly heathrow in a glider!

[Massey1Bravo]

Channel NewsAsia - Iceland volcano blast could last long time expert - channelnewsasia.com (http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world/view/1050314/1/.html)

"It is very variable how long these eruptions last - anywhere from a few days to over a year," Magnus Tumi Gudmundsson, a professor of geophysics and civil protection advisor, told AFP. "Judging from the intensity of this one, it could last a long time," he added.

Interesting days (or months) ahead.

[Winch-control]

Now a clever designer/engineer out there can surely produce an EAPS package suitable for all jets, available in pretty quick time? err EAPS = Engine air particle seperator (as fitted to the cabs operating in dusty/dessert conditions):ok:

[peter we]

Lets see how much of a novelty it is if it goes on for months. The economic cost could be very significant.

[M609]

Apparently Ryanair flights have departed the Oslo region VFR at FL190 to get around the zero rate…........

:ugh::ugh:

[Sporky]

Good day for GA nothing in the skies!!

[FL370 Officeboy]

Somebody mentioned earlier about the possibility of regional turboprops using lower levels (outside CAS) to operate their flights.

I guess this would be a perfectly legal flight, but would the airline allow it in practice? Or would it contravene a policy or otherwise be deemed 'too risky' flying outside CAS?

Well flybe have cancelled all their Dash 8 Q400 turboprop flights for today...

[jamie2004]

Any bizzjet pilots wanting to depart/arrive the UK today?

[oversteer]

Apparently Ryanair flights have departed the Oslo region VFR at FL190 to get around the zero rate…........

This seems like a pretty genius idea to me

Can commercial passenger traffic actually [legally] fly VFR ?

[EGNT]

There has been both a biz prop of some sort depart NCL this morning for the MCT, and also one scheduled pax to IOM. Both VFR.

[bakerpictures]

Radio 4 World at One to interview an 'expert' who will say larger eruptions possible from other vents. Worth a listen at 1.00pm.

Ashes to ashes?

[seat 0A]

Just announced that Dutch airspace will be closing this afternoon as well :uhoh:

[ACARS]

What are the model predicting? Doesn't seem to be moving that quick.

Do we know if it will clear our airspace by tomorrow? Otherwise I need a "lend" a cessna 172 and file vfr from BRU to NCL :mad:

I can imagine that most airlines will probably cancel flights tomorrow too at the rate it's movning.

Anyone the number for the Eurostar :ouch:

[Tediek]

EHAM shutting down in steps as of 1300 hours Lt... some flights have been cancelled.

*** ALARM *** 10:59
LUCHTRUIM NL WORDT STAPSGEWIJS GESLOTEN. 10:59
VANAF 1900LT G E E N LUCHTVERKEER MEER MOGELIJK. 10:59
DIVERSE CONTINGENCYPLANNEN ZIJN REEDS OPGESTART. 11:00

[KiloMikePapa]

It was just annouced that Belgian airspace will be gradually closed this afternoon (complete closure probably from 16:00 local time on).

This event might restore some of the humility we often lack vis-a-vis to Mother Nature :(

Have a nice sunset!

[HeathrowAirport]

Only two flight's from EGNM today, one filed FL240, the later FL370. (RYR)

Just a question is this Ash Cloud visible to those on the ground?

[Jetjock330]

Saw the EY ORD-AUH flight routing south of London. That's rather a long way from a Great Circle track - wonder how much longer it's going to take them?This is an absolute normal routing which utilities the track system that is favorable eastbound, however, the EY151 AUH-ORD (14:43), westbound flight today, is routing south of London today on a random track due to the volcanic ash.

AUH-ORD today Ground distance 6829nm
Air Distance 6861nm (due little headwind average throughout flight being -1 kt)
Great Circle track 6315nm

[peter we]

"Do we know if it will clear our airspace by tomorrow? "
Its going to be several days at least according to the weather chart posted earlier. Probably a week, but it depends on the weather forecast and you know how unreliable that can be. Best hope is that it gets blown west and disrupts NA instead...
It could of course eventually encircle the entire northern hemisphere

[alpouvar]

Sky reporting all BA flights from LHR cancelled until tomorrow morning...

[Tediek]

Germany is next.

[Squawk_ident]

https://www.cfmu.eurocontrol.int/PUBPORTAL/gateway/spec/PORTAL.14.0.0.P.254.53/_res/NAT_westbound_2010_04_15.PNG

[Totally_Bananas]

Good video on YouTube of Captain Eric Moody's 747;


YouTube - air crash investigation (english): falling from the sky part1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrNuY2qXWhI)

[IB4138]

Extra police draughted into Malaga airport as quite a few pax are "kicking off" at airline and airport staff.

Mind you, some airlines have not helped the situation with confused information on cancelations. Some flights have been "off" then "on" then "off" again.

[Dairyground]

Just a question is this Ash Cloud visible to those on the ground?


Looking north from the southern fringes of Greater Manchester, the blue of the clear sky does not seem quite as brilliant as usual, and the few, medium-height, clouds that are visible seem to have a slightly pink or beige tinge. The effect is not great, so it could all be in my imagination - or my window might need cleaning.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Information Just Received That All London Sectors Will Not
Be Available To Ifr Traffic From 1100 Utc Until 1800 Utc>>

Interesting... It's now 10:48Z and Heathrow is still busy with inbounds. No way they're going to be cleared by 11:00.

[Suzeman]

Interesting animation here if it works


EUMETSAT IPPS animation - Meteosat 0 degree Dust Western Europe (http://oiswww.eumetsat.org/IPPS/html/MSG/RGB/DUST/WESTERNEUROPE/index.htm)

[ChalfontFlyer]

Currently showing over the Bristol Channel on flightradar24.com is an Icelandair 757 flight en-route KEF to AMS. Thought all airspace in Iceland has been closed for some hours?

[Tediek]

Eurocontrol advises now that NL airspace can stay open..

[Wycombe]

Radarvirtuel.com has made very interesting viewing this morning over the UK!

[Gulf4uk]

Farnborough continued with arrivals and departures right up to 1200 local
1100Z Departure at 1159 N727DL Saab-fairchild 340A

TONY

[22 Degree Halo]

Think yourself lucky it wasn't ash cloud from Katla :ooh:

[R44-pilot]

So now the airspace is officially closed, are VFR flights no permitted either?

[bakerpictures]

Indeed, Radarvirtuel.com has been great company and I'm watching what may be the last arrival at LHR, showing as the BAW48 from Seattle soon on finals.

[oversteer]

Think yourself lucky it wasn't ash cloud from Katla

"Over the past 1,100 years, Eyjafjallajökull has erupted four times: in 920, 1612, between 1821–1823, and in 2010. Each of the first three of these incidents directly preceded a major eruption in the nearby subglacial volcano, Katla."

[AN2 Driver]

Think yourself lucky it wasn't ash cloud from Katla

hey, this thing is far from over yet. Seen suggestions that this might just be the start... :eek: There are quite a lot of these Volcanos up there, and some might get ideas once this one is at it....

Edit: and one of these took 3 years? :uhoh:

[22 Degree Halo]

Well worth watching this animation all the way through:

Satellitt: Europa ? yr.no (http://www.yr.no/satellitt/europa_animasjon.html)

[Unixman]

How on earth was COA77 (BRS-CLE) allowed to go?

[Genghis the Engineer]

So now the airspace is officially closed, are VFR flights no permitted either?

VFR flights are currently permitted.

G

[Squawk_ident]

Unixman:

How on earth was COA77 (BRS-CLE) allowed to go?

Going South like all others from EGKK and then West to join Nats. Brest Control will be very busy. Btw everything seems stopped at EGKK/LL.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<VFR flights are currently permitted.>>

Only the government can prohibit flying, which it has not done. NATS, in consultation with various agencies, decided to refuse clearance to enter CAS. That's it in a nutshell. Much of EU is in the same boat.

[ChalfontFlyer]

Try www.flightradar24.com (http://www.flightradar24.com) , it seems to be working OK & claims that it's in real time vs. the 5 minutes delay on virtuel.

Looking somewhat empty now over the entire British Isles airspace!

[Landroger]

Flightradar24.co is empty - VK702 was the last to land at LGW a couple of minutes ago. That is scary. I live in SW16 and it is un-naturally quiet!

Anyone for Eurostar shares? My friends will be returning from Paris on Eurostar tomorrow anyway, but they are worried they will have to stand!

Roger.

PS: The general public are almost completely unaware unless they have access to television. :eek:

[Skylion]

As yet nobody seems to be asking the question where exactly the cloud is and whether a blanket ban on all flying in UK airspace is necessary rather than allowing tactical clearances in non affected areas where and when possible. The concern for safety is naturally paramount but if the guiding principle were "Keep as much of the show on the road as we safely can " would we be seeing this blanket approach?

[Squawk_ident]

SAS925 EKCH / KIAD A333 between CAN and JSY (Jersey)!! Hope for him it's the last time here!

[EDMJ]

Copenhagen FIR now essentially closed, as per following NOTAMS:

1004151015-1004161000 est. volcanich ash cloud originating in iceland is having major impact affecting danish airspace. opr should refer to london vaac advisory for further info. in accordance with icao volcanic ash contingency, no ifr clearance will be issued for penetration of the forecast contaminated area that lies within danish airspace. this will be regulated by atfm measures. gnd - unl.

1004151200-1004190800 est. due to volcanic ash cloud temporary restricted area (danger area over high seas) is established within the entire copenhagen fir. no vfr traffic is permitted. gnd - unl.

[22 Degree Halo]

Scotland's First Minister has set up an emergency response group to deal with the volcanic ash incident and the resultant disruption to Scottish airports.

[ficrew]

Wind up here is expected to turn on saturday. Start blowing from the north. So hopefully the ash cloud should blow southward which will open up Europe. Icelandair managed to get 2 flights out this morning. Flights to AMS and FRA. It´s going to be a very long flight home. Expecting to go southward toward France and then west out to sea before heading northbound home.

Last time this volcano came alive it stuck around for over a year. Could be an interesting year.
From Iceland with Love :ok:

[Squealing Pig]

A very important point was brought up earlier by Peter we, if this goes on for more than a few days, It might start effecting our jobs, How many airline can continue to pay its staff for a few weeks if no money is coming in through the front door

[A4]

Hmm. Hopefully this might focus attention on just how negligable mans contribution to planetary CO2 emmissions actually is. This eruption (which may just be the start of something much bigger has probably pumped out more than an entire day/week/month/year's worth of aviation emissions. Has any expert been on TV giving an estimate - I'd be interested to know.

I'm all for reducung waste and doing our bit - but this shows that mother nature can, at her whim, neutralise any effort we mere mortals make.

If this does indeed continue for a few days/weeks it has the potential to tip some carriers over the edge.

Very interesting times ahead.

A4

[stansdead]

Very few. In a word.

But, it's worse than you think. Not just money not coming IN, but money in the form of refunds flowing OUT.:uhoh:

Cashflow nightmare.........

[Feathers McGraw]

Those of you who are interested can see an animated gif of the PlanePlotter network's view of UK airspace from 0600 to 0900 here:

http://i43.tinypic.com/2vmtsnq.gif

It clearly shows the traffic dispersing and everything going very quiet.

There's another 3 hours worth here:

http://i42.tinypic.com/1zqadkh.gif

This is from 0900 to 1200, and it's even quieter....

[Eugene Johnson]

Thinking of flying in vocanic ash?

Read the ICAO manual "Volcanic Ash, Radioactive Material and Toxic Chemical Clouds"

Read the Met warning chart - surface to FL550 http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/aviation/vaac/data/VAG_1271331761.png

Your choice

[Phalconphixer]

flightradar24...not down just heavily oversubscribed!

At 1329 local (UK) showing just 1 aircraft in flight over the entire UK, a Citation operated by 247Jet at 1700 feet and 205kts Biggin Hill to Southend

Still a few flights over Sweden and Finland but Norway and Denmark deserted like the UK.

pp

[frimm]

No...no...no Iceland, we said give us your cash!

[robdean]

Ressie, my guess would be nil chance.

http://metoffice.gov.uk/aviation/vaac/data/VAG_1271331761.png

6:00am projected ash cloud is bottom right...

[Dave T-S]

Can a techie please explain to me the technical implications of flying through a volcanic dust cloud? (i'm referring to turbofan engines).

Is it because the oxygen content of the air is so low that there cannot be combustion of the fuel and the engines may flame out? (per the BA flight in '82?).

Could there also be an engine wear issue - abrasive dust getting in to bearings/abrading fan blades etc?

Would it also affect pitot readings?

Apologies if this seems a stupid question to those in the know, but i'm SLF not an aeronautical technician :ok:

TIA :)

[peter we]

"http://metoffice.gov.uk/aviation/vaa...1271331761.png

6:00am projected ash cloud is bottom right..."

Large parts of Germany and Poland are going to be affected. Obama is supposed to be In Krakow for the funeral on Sunday - that may not happen.

This is going to cost a hell of a lot of money. Hello double dip recession.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Good quick summary on the beeb on engine, etc, effects
BBC News - Iceland volcano: Why a cloud of ash has grounded flights (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8621992.stm)
From ex-Pres of RAeS so accurate

[diddy1234]

DAve TS, it is because the ash will accumulate on every thing and at the same time be very abrasive (think of sand blasting and you will get the idea).

The ash will accumulate in the flame cans (where the flame is held) inside the engines and eventually turn from ash into glass and stick to everything inside the engine.
Thus starving the flame cans of air and extinguishing the engines.

Once the flame goes out the glass will cool solidifying even more but becoming brittle as well.

If the pilot is lucky they may be able to shed the glass and restart the engines.

This is what (I believe) happened back in 1982 near Indonesia.

If I am wrong then please correct me.

[Chris Scott]

JonC,

Happy gliding! (Assume it'll be a winch-launch?)

The latest chart fom the UK Met Office's VAAC (Volcanic Ash Advisory Centre) is here (as already mentioned on robdean's post):
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/aviation/vaac/data/VAG_1271331761.png (http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/aviation/vaac/data/VAG_1271331761.png)

These are forecast charts, covering the surface to FL550 in three layers.

To quote a footnote from the chart:
"Rmk: Ash concentrations within the indicated areas are unknown."

The following is a quote from the Met Office website:

"The Met Office is continuing to monitor the spread of the ash plume from eruption of the Eyjafjallajökull volcano on Iceland.
Our forecasters monitor volcanic eruptions as part of the Met Office’s role in the global network of Volcanic Ash Advisory Centres (VAAC). Our Environment Monitoring and Response Centre (EMARC) is working closely with the Icelandic Met Service to study the plume and predict where it may spread as the situation develops.
Volcanic ash can be dangerous for aircraft, causing damage, reducing visibility, and potentially clogging engines. Through EMARC we’re responsible for the Iceland area.
Using observations from Iceland, satellite imagery and our specialist model which predicts how pollutants move through the atmosphere, we’ve sent out advisories to keep the aviation industry and pilots aware of the situation."

Am beginning to wish we had a Meteorology forum on PPRuNe.

Having interpreted these advisories, has NATS itself taken the decision to close UK CAS (with advice from its own lawyers), or has it been leaned-on by HM Government?

Chris

[natops]

dutch airspace closed from 17z on.

[20milesout]

Flightradar, 1300 utc:

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3995/flightradar.th.jpg (http://img217.imageshack.us/i/flightradar.jpg/)

:ooh:

[Landroger]

Can a techie please explain to me the technical implications of flying through a volcanic dust cloud? (i'm referring to turbofan engines).

Is it because the oxygen content of the air is so low that there cannot be combustion of the fuel and the engines may flame out? (per the BA flight in '82?).

Could there also be an engine wear issue - abrasive dust getting in to bearings/abrading fan blades etc?

Would it also affect pitot readings?

Apologies if this seems a stupid question to those in the know, but i'm SLF not an aeronautical technician http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

TIA http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif


More or less all of those things Dave. The engines from BA009 were completely totalled, due to accreated pumice on all the hot surfaces. Plus the pumice would have ground the bearings square and changed the profile of all the gas passages. The fact that Capt. Moody and his crew got them restarted is really the clearest demonstration of just how amazing modern high bypass fan jets are. Their enormous power, coupled with fuel frugality at altitude and metronomic reliabilty, make them truly awesome machines.

Oh, and the cockpit windscreens were abraided opaque as were the landing light lenses and vitually all the paint on leading surfaces.

Roger.

[peter we]

"has NATS itself taken the decision to close UK CAS (with advice from its own lawyers), or has it been leaned-on by HM Government?"

Decisions like this were take years ago. When the event occurs the plan is implemented. You do not wait until an a volcano erupts an the plume start blowing towards you to debate the relative merits of open/closing the CAS.

Planning for a nuclear war/tsunami/asteroid strike/pandemic flu or whatever you have a contingency plan and you implement it. The words of the press release, the speech of the PM or whatever - it was all written long ago.

[Engine overtemp]

Jackieofalltrades, right click on the photo and "Properties" gives you http://oiswww.eumetsat.org/IPPS/html/MSG/RGB/ASH/ICELAND/IMAGESDisplay/HxoQZlgSBaEbp

[Andy D]

You can find them here: EUMETSAT IPPS animation - Latest Images (http://oiswww.eumetsat.org/IPPS/html/latestImages.html)

Meteosat 0 degree, dust, Western Europe show it up the most

[Basil]

Dave, Now you know as much as I do :)

Danger to Aircraft from Volcanic Eruption Clouds and Volcanic Ash (http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/hazards/tephra/ashandaircraft.php)

Ash Reduces Engine Performance and May Cause Engine Failure
Ash ingested by jet engines may lead to the immediate deterioration in engine performance and engine failure. The principal cause of engine failure is the deposition of ash in the hot sections of the engine. Glass from melting volcanic ash will coat fuel nozzles, the combustor, and turbine, which reduces the efficiency of fuel mixing and restricts air passing through the engine. This causes surging, flame out, and immediate loss of engine thrust.

Ash Abrades External Components of Airplanes

Volcanic ash is highly abrasive because it consists of hard, sharp rock fragments that easily scratch and erode plastic, glass, and metals. Any forward-facing surface of an airplane is likely to be damaged . . . Cockpit windows may become so abraded and scratched that pilots have extreme difficulty seeing the runway on which to land the plane.

Aero 09 - Volcanic Ash Avoidance (http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_09/volcanic_story.html)

Reduce thrust to idle immediately. By reducing thrust, engines may suffer less buildup of molten debris on turbine blades and hot-section components.
Exit the ash cloud as quickly as possible. (NSS! ed.) A 180-deg turn out of the ash cloud using a descending turn is the quickest exit strategy.

[Fake Sealion]

Have UK Military aircraft been grounded also? Its eeriliy quiet here in the Vale of York.

[jackieofalltrades]

Jackieofalltrades, right click on the photo and "Properties" gives you http://oiswww.eumetsat.org/IPPS/html.../HxoQZlgSBaEbp (http://oiswww.eumetsat.org/IPPS/html/MSG/RGB/ASH/ICELAND/IMAGESDisplay/HxoQZlgSBaEbp)

Many thanks, but is there a "live" version with regular updates?

[Xeque]

I guess one jet engine is the same as another regardless of whether its military or commercial.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Have UK Military aircraft been grounded also? Its eeriliy quiet here in the Vale of York.

They're required to confirm with MO whether to fly or not; I think that we can all guess MO's answer.

G

[Defruiter]

According to BBC, NATS now say flights will not resume until 0600 tomorrow (16th April) at the earliest.

[pb643]

Have UK Military aircraft been grounded also? Its eeriliy quiet here in the Vale of York.

I have read on another forum that everything had to be on the ground by 1200.

I wonder if the Russians know this?

Phil

[EastMids]

VFR OPR SHOULD EXERCISE EXTREME CAUTION AND MUST ASSURE THEMSELVES THAT THEIR INTENDED FLIGHT CAN BE CONDUCTED IN A SAFE MANNER BEFORE FLYING. THEY SHOULD NOTE THAT ATSOCAS CONTROL CAPACITY MAY BE SEVERELY LIMITED DURING THE PERIOD. AUS 10-04-0218/AS2.

Huh? Without any IFR traffic, I'd have thought there'd be plenty of capacity for ATSOCAS for VFR traffic!! :bored: Or maybe all the NATS guys are going home to sit it out! :D

Andy

[diddy1234]

no the Russians won't be affected.

they could still continue their illegal flights in to UK airspace to push diplomatic relations that little bit further !

[Nemrytter]

@ Simonpro (post #30)
Great photo. Have you got a weblink we can get this from?
Many thanks, but is there a "live" version with regular updates?

Apologies for the delay in replying...busy day.
You can use this:
EUMETSAT IPPS animation - Meteosat 0 degree Ash Iceland (http://oiswww.eumetsat.org/IPPS/html/MSG/RGB/ASH/ICELAND/index.htm)
Which will show the most recent one for public display (public display is about 30-60 minutes behind realtime). You can also get various animations and stuff going on there.
I think there's a video on our frontpage too, but I seem to have lost it.

The worst of the ash has bypassed Britain I think, but there's still quite a lot of it around that doesn't show up too well (as it's incredibly thin). Short-term I doubt it would do aircraft any harm, but over the course of several hours (or repeated flights) even this very thin stuff is a real pain in the ass.

[Jackdaw]

The previous eruption of the Eyjafjallajökull volcano, whose ash cloud has shut down airspace over Britain, lasted for more than a year, according to an expert. The Eyjafjallajökull volcano erupted for the first time in 200 years on March 20, in a dramatic display that sent fountains of lava spewing into the air.

All flights to British airspace have been suspended after ash caused by the eruption forced air traffic controllers to restrict take-offs and landings.

Professor Bill McGuire, of the Aon Benfield Hazard Research Centre at University College London, said the previous eruption, in December 1821, lasted until January 1823.

He said air travel could be curtailed repeatedly if the current eruption lasted the same amount of time.

However, he added: "There is no way of knowing for certain how long this eruption will last based on previous events. The level of disruption would also depend on how much gas and ash is produced."

[ajamieson]

Volcano ash chaos: previous eruption 'lasted more than a year' - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/7593716/Volcano-ash-chaos-previous-eruption-lasted-more-than-a-year.html)

[Sober Lark]

Surely the widely dispersed ash particles experienced at present are not the same as flying through Captain Moody's ash plume?

We won't even have a blue moon with this stuff.

[JEP]

We are now sitting in Denmark with perfect weather, forecasts show CAVOK and a closed airspace.

I can see the impact the ash has on jet turbines at high altitiudes, but how does it affect a Cessna 172 at 1000 ft ??

And finally - if the ash can damage a piston engine at 1000 ft - shouldn't I then worry about my car as well ?

[captainmorgan888]

...just had a satcom call from your citation, over Paris, they departed VFR from Luton at around 1330, at low alt. no problems so far. He could see a very thin layer at high alt. which might be ash.

[Jwscud]

Biggin ATC were this morning informing aircraft that Farnborough would be offering a basic service only after 1100Z. Can anyone tell us why Atsocas are affected by this on a sunny (if hazy) VFR day when pilots still want to use them?

There were a lot of people pushing to get airborne this morning to beat the deadline!

[Squealing Pig]

Jep - The airfilter on a car will prevent ash entering and causing damage, however if it becomes blocked (unlikley on the ground) the engine will stop. Not so bad in a car but in a C172 and the like could be intersting. of course you could use the carb heat in a C172 but thats not filtered

[Squawk_ident]

Part of Brest FIR might closed tomorrow although it is not not yet sure.
Some airfields in northern France might close tomorrow according to the situation.

[Stoic]

Is it not just possible that the ATC authorities are over-reacting to this ash cloud?

Eric Moody's incident happened at night. I seem to remember keeping my distance from a fairly dramatic volcanic ash cloud being emitted from a volcano in Alaska using a Mk 1 eyeball. Similarly did we not quite often spot erupting volcanoes whilst en route to Oz via Indonesia?

[Suzeman]

Icelandair managed to get 2 flights out this morning. Flights to AMS and FRA.

Was one of the aircraft TF-ASH? :ok:

Suzeman

[tacr2man]

The Thames Valley Police chopper is still flying as its hovering over the remains of the Cherwell Valley Services which has been generating its own plume for the last couple of hours :eek:

[liam548]

Will people be getting refunds for cancelled flights? Afterall I thought "acts of god" were not covered?

[CraigJL]

^^

Ryanair are offering it:

Passengers who were booked to travel on one of the below cancelled flights can transfer to the next available flight FREE OF CHARGE or apply for a refund on their unused flight(s) at the airport ticket desk, online by clicking on one of the below links or by calling our reservation centre.

[feedback]

Will people be getting refunds for cancelled flights?

This is why we have public service broa^w websites:
Volcanic ash alert: Air passenger rights (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8621779.stm)

[UAV689]

Right, shall we bring the winch and gliders down to heathrow then? I rekon I could easily get a 3000ft winch launch from that runway! Depends how long the cable is!

Anyway, whats the big deal, i was in Newcastle recently and saw this, did this stop the flights


http://www.fotosearch.com/bigcomp.asp?path=DSN/DSN026/1828476.jpg

[Rice power]

FRA airport management meeting again at 1800 to decide whether to close airport.

[RAPA Pilot]

Is it coincidence that National Geographic are showing BA009 flight on Aircrash Investigation right now???

[Chris767777]

Brussels FIR has been closed as from 14h30 z.
One controller told EBBR might be closed until tomorrow 16 Apr 18h00 z...
Tough times !

Chris

[R44-pilot]

So hundreds of UK outbound flights are cancelled today and maybe tomorrow. What happens to the flights on Saturday? Are todays and tomorrows pushed back to another time or will they take the place of the weekend flights?

Also, how does a charter flight fair? Are they easier to cancel and re-schedule or harder than scheduled flights?

[BobT]

Yes, if ash falls on the ground where you are, you would have to be concerned about vehicles, home mechanicals and the like.

This link (http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/ash/todo.html) discusses how to deal with ashfall.

[Whiskey Papa]

@tilos

Volcanic ash is apparently microscopic in nature and not easy to see (so the BBC weatherman was saying), if so it's really insidious and you can see why it can cause problems.

WP

[axefurabz]

Here at 60 deg N we can both smell and taste the sulphur.

Shall probably have to have recourse to whisky to refresh the palate :)

[lomapaseo]

All engines are not alike when it comes to the effects of ingesting ash, anymore then saying that all volcanic ash is alike.

The variance is due to the various melting points of the particles of ash (vary with the volcano) and the operating temperatures of the engine when they ingest the ash. This is in regard to the largest risk which is the loss of power at altitude. Wear out modes due to errosion and blocking cooling holes take place over multiple flights and can be addressed by overhaul.

The gas turbine engine risk being dependent on its operating temperatures (in cruise) has been steadily going up as the engine designs get more efficient by running hotter.

To my knowledge there has never been a ash cause multiple engine loss of power for the likes of a B727, DC9, DC8, B707 etc. (perhaps explaining why some engines seem immune)

Disclaimer: The comments above are not meant to conflict with published procedures and are only general in nature for the benefit of casual questions.

[Skylion]

Small exec jet has just passed south of Aylesbury low level heading probably towards Luton. Hasn't seized up despite Comical Gord saving the nation from flying.

[loubylou]

I've got a thin layer of fine grey dust on the cars and on my window sills - I can't remember if they were already like that and needed a wash or if it's the ash!
Hope it's all cleared up by next Thursday as I'm off on hols. Guess today would've been a good day to be at work after all - right until the airspace re-opens!

louby

[kiwibrit]

Does anybody know if there has been any sampling of the atmosphere to determine actual concentration of particulates?

[ILS27LEFT]

:mad:

I do not think this is over reaction at all. :ok:

A gentle reminder here:

YouTube - Airsidetv.com - Interview With Capt Eric Moody BA Flt 9 Part 2/3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZl6WdJF370)

[Imperator1300]

Apprently Brussels is covered with this stuff and the airport is closed. However, the weather is glorious and there is no sign of any dust.

Reminds me of Y2K.

Imperator1300 ( who is now going to venture outdoors :eek: )

[Descend to What Height?!?]

KiwiBrit,
a research aircraft is due to take off in the next hour or so to try and sample the plume over the UK.

Understand it is the NERC Do-228 ?

[Nopax,thanx]

Well, we've just had a Spitfire launch from Duxford; perhaps it's a re-enactment of the THUM flights!

[Squawk_ident]

Interesting stuff here:

http://acweather.********.com/2005/10/north-atlantic-weather-major-airports.html

You can have a look at the "High Level SIGWX Forecast" and see the volcanic ash (Eyjafjallajokull) forecast for tomorrow 16-04 0000z. It's going South...
The URL is not accepted by my browser or the site . "*****" should be replaced by " b l o g s p o t" without spaces!

[corsair]

Well, we've just had a Spitfire launch from Duxford; perhaps it's a re-enactment of the THUM flights! Well those blowjobs never were up to much. It's back to Spits in these days of crisis. This much be perfect for GA and anything VFR. They would love this to last into the weekend. Imagine circling over Heathrow in your para glider?

Here's a link to a real time ADS-B readouts over Europe. Notice how empty Northern Europe and the British isles is. Spooky! Give it a moment to load.

*Dundalk Amateur Radio Society EI7DAR* (http://www.ei7dar.com/aircraftlive.html)

[Whiskey Papa]

Spitfires aren't invulnerable to volcanic ash. The RAF had a few problems with piston jobs in Italy in 1944 when Mt Etna erupted.

WP

[learjet50]

Re Heathrow

Is it Closed as we speak ??

If it is I Think someone should tell Air India,Thai,Korean and EAT who according to Radar Virtuel are all en route to Heathrow or is it the Flight Plans are still as filed and they are diverting .

The Korean is going the wrong way as a natter of fact but why change the habit of a lifetime

[Carjockey]

Lomapaseo

I think that the operating temperature of the engines would not be a factor.

If an aircraft were to fly through a cloud of volcanic ash at 500kts it would be equivalent to flying through a giant gritblaster...

The entire aircraft would be thoroughly abraded, including the turbine blades :sad:...

Have a look at this; Airline captain recalls flying through volcanic ash - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/7593234/Airline-captain-recalls-flying-through-volcanic-ash.html)

and this;
The story of BA flight 009 and the words every passenger dreads ... | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-431802/The-story-BA-flight-009-words-passenger-dreads-.html)

CJ

[HeathrowAirport]

Nats suggested that the restrictions were unlikely to be lifted after 0700, saying saying it was "very unlikely that the situation over England will improve in the foreseeable future". BBC have also said, the airspace will be close indefinitely. Until the situation has passed.

[Squawk_ident]

Lille LFQQ has closed already
Paris LFPG/PO/will close this evening at 2100Z media report. May be for a couple of days. Other airports in the North are /will close also

[srobarts]

This site which normally shows the area surrounding Heathrow has changing views which show how deserted the skies are over the UK and Scandinavia.

AirNav RadarBox - Screen Shot refreshed Every minute (http://www.heathrowcam.net/liveradar.php)

Here in North Hampshire we have just had a wokka over the village and the odd GA aircraft. Have had to pour myself a glass of wine to take the sulphur taste away.

[Just a spotter]

The chief pilot at Sussex and Surrey [Air Ambulance], Steve Wood, said the restrictions were a "complete over-reaction".

Over-reaction claim as flights grounded until at least 7am Friday - VIDEO - Yorkshire Post (http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/Overreaction-claim-as-flights-grounded.6229247.jp)

JAS

[cldrvr]

BBC reported Eurocontrol now talking 48 hrs min. Update from them at 1830z, France has 24 closed airports and counting.

[ACARS]

So let's start debating.

Over reaction or the right move?

I think some people will naturally say it's been an over reaction because they haven't seen the sky darken with the ash cloud!!

I trust that the proffessionals have made the right decision on this one.

[dwshimoda]

Perhaps stick to driving cars?

Nature's Gritblaster
Lomapaseo

I think that the operating temperature of the engines would not be a factor.



CJ

Rather than simply posting a few quotes, either do your research properly, or actually understand how jet engines work, including the various temperatures at different stages of their operation, and then perhaps you may be qualified to dispute Lompaseos post. :=

Your statement about a 500kt sand blaster makes more sense, although more like 250KIAS in reality.

[ChalfontFlyer]

ACARS - In a way we will never know for sure...as it would just have needed a repeat (at the very least) of the BA 747 incident back in the 80''s.

[proxus]

Here's the source of this all. (Don't know if this picture has been posted here before)

http://visir.is/misc/article_picture.html?http://img.visir.is/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=XZ&Date=20100414&Category=FRETTIR01&ArtNo=619874521&Ref=AR&NoBorder

Vsir.is - Mynd me grein (http://visir.is/misc/article_picture.html?http://img.visir.is/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=XZ&Date=20100414&Category=FRETTIR01&ArtNo=619874521&Ref=AR&NoBorder)

[AVNBROKER]

So what's the difference between this very fine volcanic dust and the very fine sand which gets blown in from the sahara after sand storms? Presumably both are equally as abrasive and judging by the quantities accreting on my car in the past, in probably just as high a concentration.

[Admiral346]

Maybe some of you remember - about 4-6 weeks ago european ATC had a trial of closing airspace due to volcanic ash. There were pages and pages of NOTAMs all marked with "Excercise only" about an ash cloud approaching Europe from somewhere in the SW. Maybe Canaries or Azores, I forgot.

Seems like they were well prepared and had tried out the contingency plans, but I do agree with some of the posts above - maybe it is a bit too much caused partly by preset minds due to the exercise.
On the other hand - better safe than sorry! I'd hate to have my engines flame out on me, the winshield going blind, and then try to put it down somewhere...

But as I am off until monday, I will just sit in my chair and watch the developments -

Nic

[Squealing Pig]

Your statement about a 500kt sand blaster makes more sense, although more like 250KIAS in reality

Not really, the ash particals will still be hitting the airframe at TAS regardless of what IAS is

[dwshimoda]

But it would still be 250KIAS!

[peter we]

On the other hand - better safe than sorry! I'd hate to have my engines flame out on me, the winshield going blind, and then try to put it down somewhere...


Well, its not just that is it? you would have to check the internals to find out what exactly what damage has been done as we have no idea what the ash will do. And its not just the engines that could be damaged.

[justanotherflyer]

There's a fine layer of dust covering my car and the other half's, and all the garden furniture..... I wonder is this the Icelandic ash depostion - sure looks grim enough to gum up the works of a turbofan, glad I'm not up there today.



UPDATE 1728z:

Erm, no...... the missus tells me that's the crap she's been begging me to clean for a couple of weeks....
:eek:

[cessnapete]

Health and safety gone mad! Tried to go to Jersey VFR this afternnoon from South coast area. Severe clear blue skies for low level VFR traffic. Not a bit of ash to be seen.
They have closed the Zone not even S/VFR available, you can't even do circuits from the loacal Aero Club. Complete and utter overreaction for low level traffic in the UK FIR' s.

[Bearcat]

I'm off to the boozer to enjoy a few pints and enjoy the spring clear blue skies sunshine.....

[Nemrytter]

cessnapete, as I have said innumerable times already today: Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. If you spent some time flying through the stuff (i.e: across Britain or transAtlantic) then your aircraft would notice the effects.

I doubt that there's enough ash aronud to actually bring an aircraft down due to engine failure or anything like that, but it's better to be safe than sorry. I know that all the people complaining that this is an overreaction would be the first to complain about 'underaction' should anything go wrong due to aircraft ingesting ash.

[Pandy]

I bit off subject I know but it would appear the airlines were knew what could / would happen well before we did.

I'm trying to get back to the UK from DXB on Tuesday next! Yeah well one lives in hope

Using the EK booking engine early yesterday - all flights were blocked out for days next week, thought it was a glitch & gave up. BA was also showing prices in the stratosphere (like the ash) & the rest were either zero availability or silly prices right through next week.

Now conclude what I thought was a glitch (or some event I didn't know of) was obviously known about by the airlines well before Joe Public.

Now, checking all the other main players sites (BA, GF, QR, VS etc) everything is zero availability until at least Monday (GF) & eye watering fares thereafter; for pretty obvious reasons.

So I tried KLM & Air France all of which came up with quite sensible fares if I gave my (real) destination as BRS, but very much the same result as LHR if I gave CDG or AMS as my destination. From this it appears changing fares on a website on a point to point basis is relatively easy but (assume) the problems start with connections.

Just for the record the solution to my problem was a one way LoCo Air Arabia to ATH and EZY to LGW about 1/8 of the normal cost (well plus a hotel in ATH)

[Stoic]

I do not think this is over reaction at all.The difference is surely that Heathrow, where the airspace is closed, is approximately 1000 miles from Eyjafjallajoekull and any ash will be heavily diluted whilst the BA009 flew close to Mount Galunggung where the density the ash cloud was relatively very intense. It will be interesting to see the analysese of ash densities when they are published.:ok:

[nathanroberts2K8]

Hello, I've not been on here for a very long while, I would like to ask any of the qualified PPL's or commercial pilots on here whether or not the ash particles would substantially affect a prop plane of any kind as a pose to a jet engined plane?

If it would not, i presume because a prop is a completely different process than a jet engine, do the airline companies not have any form of contingency process whereby they can use larger multi prop planes instead, similar to the ones that, for example, British Airways use for some regional uk flights etc?.

Just a thought.

Kind Regards to you all

Nathan.

[wiggy]

"It will be interesting to see the analysese of ash densities when they are published."

It will indeed. It'll also be interesting to see what level of density is assumed to be acceptable; (thinks: is there already an ICAO figure for this)?

[flying lid]

For info, a small prop plane flew low, going north over Wigan Lancashire around 4.30pm. Only one I've seen, usually the sky is full of high altitude jets, and a few low level light a/c & helicopters here.

Anyway, this may be just the start. BBC news says volcanic activity is increasing, and have a look at this "good news" from the Telegraph.

Volcano ash chaos: previous eruption 'lasted more than a year' - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/7593716/Volcano-ash-chaos-previous-eruption-lasted-more-than-a-year.html)

Professor Bill McGuire, of the Aon Benfield Hazard Research Centre at University College London, said the previous eruption, in December 1821, lasted until January 1823.
He said air travel could be curtailed repeatedly if the current eruption lasted the same amount of time.
However, he added: "There is no way of knowing for certain how long this eruption will last based on previous events. The level of disruption would also depend on how much gas and ash is produced."
The most notable previous example of Icelandic volcanic activity causing problems for Britain was in 1783 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laki), when an eruption at Laki sent a huge toxic cloud of sulphur across Western Europe, killing an estimated 23,000 Britons.
The cloud first reached Britain on 22 June and was followed by reports of a choking smog containing sulphur dioxide and sulphuric acid which attacked the lungs of its victims.
The amount of gas produced was enough to cause increase temperatures for a whole summer.

Regards to all affected.

Lid

[FR1A]

Hey Cessna,

Be thankful someone else has put a stop to your getthereitus.

Can never be too safe.

[green granite]

The plume certainly is not very dense, it only shows up on channel 3 (short wave infra-red) of NOAA 15 AVHRR @ 1600Z
That doesn't of course mean it's not dangerous though.

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i11/orangeherald/plume.jpg

[TrafficPilot]

We've played safe this afternoon and kept our spotter plane grounded and safely wrapped up in the hangar.

Oxford Airport was closed until approx 3pm. Now open to VFR only max 2500 ft.

Had one bizjet leave at 4pm. 2400ft to Biggin. Saw one PA28 fly the overhead. Other than that it's been a lovely peaceful afternoon here!

[ZQA297/30]

So what's the difference between this very fine volcanic dust and the very fine sand which gets blown in from the sahara after sand storms? Presumably both are equally as abrasive and judging by the quantities accreting on my car in the past, in probably just as high a concentration.

Having flown through a lot of Sahara Dust, and a small amount of volcanic dust, the most noticeable difference is the abrasion of windshield glass. It becomes micro-pitted, almost looks frosted, after volcanic dust. No effect noticed after Sahara dust.
And forecasting where the effects will be noticed is not easy either.
I remember during an eruption of St Vincent, that we all went out east to avoid the obvious plume that was being carried off to the west of St Vincent on the southeast trades. Imagine the headscratching that took place when volcanic dust came floating into Barbados, over 100 miles east of St Vincent, on the southeast trades.
What had happened is that the dust had left westbound, and risen through a masking layer of cirrus, to pick up the upper level westerlies, ride several hundred miles eastward whilst drifting back down, to hitch a ride back into Barbados on the southeast trades. So here came volcanic dust from the east with the nearest volcano on that side being several thousand miles away.
Go figure. :confused:

[Radarvirtuel]

Hi All

Volcano kill my provider and isp :)

I have mirror site here with no delay RadarVirtuel.com (http://www.radar-virtuel.com)
Use firefox or google chrome better than IE.

Regards
Laurent
LFRN

[dikastes]

I thought the volcanic ash was in the Jet stream streaming across the north of scotland? Can someone tell me how that would affect a VFR flight at 2500ft flying across the south coast of England?

[uksatcomuk]

Animation here showing time lapse , over five hours , of traffic this morning as flights were grounded

http://i42.tinypic.com/2valeuw.gif

Notice the exodus to the SW in the final few frames.

[chips_with_everything]

If volcanic activity prevails for a while perhaps it will re-stimulate looking at Zeppelin technology.

I hope so. I'd like to go a bit slower, enjoy the view, some fresh cooked fine food, good books, iSomething and cultural social interactions. :8

[Carjockey]

dwshimoda (http://www.pprune.org/members/71123-dwshimoda)

Neither you nor I (or anyone else for that matter), know exactly what degree of damage an aircraft would suffer if it were to fly through such a cloud.

To evaluate this all relevant factors would need to be known, vis: size and composition of dust particles, duration of flight through these particles, and effects of these particles on the aircraft and it's engines at a given speed and altitude/attitude.

Since these factors are not known (to anyone), common sense dictates that we should not put any aircraft into such a situation.

Don't you agree?

CJ

[olivermbs]

Had one bizjet leave at 4pm. 2400ft to Biggin. Saw one PA28 fly the overhead. Other than that it's been a lovely peaceful afternoon here!

Not sure if it's the same one but only 1 aircraft on PlanePlotter over the UK right now, HGR857A (G-FBFI) flying at around 2000ft just south of biggin hill. Not something you see everyday..that's for sure!

[cldrvr]

That's Bernie

[Chronus]

Baldrick`s opinion for the cause of the Great War was

"I heard that it started when a bloke called Archie Duke shot an ostrich 'cause he was hungry".

Mine for shutting down the UK airspace is so that the whole nation is now stuck with nowhere to go but to sit in front of the box and watch the Three Magi.

[Businesstraveller]

Seems one comercial service is still operating - the Glasgow to Oban sea plane. :)

[S76Heavy]

I still feel it is an overreaction. Yes, it is unsafe to fly inside a volcanic ashcloud, we've seen the flameouts and damage.
Yes, it is wise to avoid flying into severe concentrations of the stuff and it is wise to have a safety margin.

But a total shutdown of aviation? Without any scientific debate on concentration levels and dispersion?

It is akin to the world wide panic over all sorts of supposedly lethal flu strains that caused nothing more than a ripple in the illness levels, yet caused a lot of stress and a huge strain on health services.

I'm afraid the "better safe than sorry" attitude does not cut it. Because the apparently safe decision may and will have unforeseen aftereffects that may be quite detrimental to safety levels. Like a lack of trust in the next stern warnings. One can only shout "wolf" so often before it becomes ineffective.

Solid particles in the air do nothing to improve engine and component life. But why the panic? Why the shutdown of a large part of airspace? What defines the boundary of safe vs unsafe sky? It is all too fuzzy for my liking, too much "we know what is good for you so don't ask awkward questions".

I am not convinced that it is not a huge overreaction. I would love to be convinced otherwise, but doubt it will happen. We are becoming so docile with the constant war on terror that numbs the mind, takes away liberties and destroys critical thinking that this goes virtually unchallenged..

[CptRegionalJet]

Maybe we will get another "permanent resident " on the sigificant WX-chart-just like "Etna":)

[flying lid]

Have a look at this site - Jet stream predictions - not good. Use nudge back / forward buttons to view jetstream for next few days.

http://www.metcheck.com/V40/UK/FREE/jetstream.asp

Lid

[falco01]

I hope this is not a repetitive info:

you have to distinguish between ash/dust (which are hard particles and CO type and other gaseous emissions which are preceding the cloud of hard particles. Pollution of air with volcanic gases at high altitudes will inhibit normal combustion of any air breathing engine. Gas wave precedes the dust. So a mere presence of additional pollutants in the air will also be a reason to close the airspace, even before the dust cloud arrives.

[peter we]

It is akin to the world wide panic over all sorts of supposedly lethal flu strains that caused nothing more than a ripple in the illness levels, yet caused a lot of stress and a huge strain on health services.

The flu strain in its first year was less lethal than it could have been, therefore a volcanic dust is safe for a a jet engine to ingest.

Yes I can see the logic in that.

[LoboTx]

First time poster, long time reader here. I'm a Geologist with a life-long fascination with flight. Thought I'd post a note on the geology side after reading posts above by flying lid and carjockey.
Agree that the details matter a lot when evaluating risk. Volcanoes eject all sorts of mineral matter, not just silica, and each of these mineral types have greatly varying properties such as hardness, melting points, etc.. And in the case of jet engines I would think "size matters" could apply, although an engineer should be consulted. Even if 100% silica (volcanic glass) the size of the particles/exposure time to engine heat might dictate level of damage to an engine. Sufficent sampling should be conducted and analysis done before jumping to conclusions.
As to the history of this region's vulcanism - we do have some decent records. Based on those, if history repeats itself things could get worse, maybe much worse, before they get better ----
"..... as Science Fair noted (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/sciencefair/post/2010/03/global-cooling-what-happens-if-the-iceland-volcano-blows/1), the Eyjafjallajokull volcano isn't necessarily the main problem. It's Katla, Iceland's noisier neighbor, that's the concern. If lava flowing from Eyjafjallajokull melts the glaciers that hold down the top of Katla, then Katla could blow its top, pumping gigantic amounts of ash into the atmosphere."

Unfortunately there seems to be correlation between the small eruptions and awakening of the big brother in the past, so cross your fingers that history doesn't repeat itself. No mention of poisonous gases in this particular article, but I've seen multiple other posts that mention deaths from gas in Britain. There's tons of data available for the Googling for those interested in more details.

Greatly enjoy reading your website - thanks. :)

[radiosutch]

I was a bit of a sceptic, but a German Air Force flight (GAF949 at 350 )heading east over Northern France just been told to take avoiding action to miss a reported ash cloud, about 45Deg to the right. So it must be real ?

[dwshimoda]

CJ,

Totally agree with you - safety is and always should be paramount. Although with regard to damage we do have some idea from the BA009 incident of 1982 which you alluded to, namely sandblasting, turbine damage, etc.

I disagreed with your point re temperatures (as per Lompaseos post) as the temperature, and the type of ash, does have a very real effect due to the ash being able to melt and then re solidify.

I agreed with your point about sandblasting but stupidly (and rather embarrassingly) didn't think through my post before typing - my mistake, and I apologise.

It's been a very interesting day today and at the minute I'm not sure we'll be flying tomorrow yet either, but we cannot rush this. For all the stranded PAX I feel very sorry, for all the airlines losing money and handing money back, I also feel very sorry - this couldn't have come at a worse time for the industry, and I hope ALL operators survive this.

DW.

[Gulf4uk]

G-FBFI = G-CHAI CL601-3R Challenger 5152 OXFORD to BIGGIN

Several others into FAB 2 CHOPPERS 1 F7X (HB-JSS) +(G-SIRS)
VFR below airways

TONY

[Rongotai]

S76 Heavy

It isn't just a random decision

ERUPTION OF EYJAFJALLA VOLCANO IN ICELAND – ICAO SYSTEM EFFECTIVE IN ENSURING THE SAFETY OF AIR TRANSPORT ICAO News Centre (http://icaopressroom.wordpress.com/2010/04/15/eruption-of-eyjafjalla-volcano-in-iceland-icao-system-effective-in-ensuring-the-safety-of-air-transport/)

[ILS27LEFT]

The Katla volcano has a reputation as one of the most dangerous volcanoes in Iceland, and it has exploded in the past just shortly after the activity of the closeby one that is causing all the mess now.
Katla has been showing signs of unrest since 1999 and geologists have concerns that it might erupt in the near future. Particularly, monitoring has been intensified following the March 2010 eruption of the volcano beneath the Eyjafjallajökull glacier. The eruption of this nearby long-dormant volcano in March and April 2010 prompted fears among some geophysicists that it might trigger an eruption at Katla.
Katlia could cause enormous disruption for very long period of times, even years. The ash cloud of today would be a joke compared to the cloud that Katlia could generate over all Europe and beyond.
Unfortunately nobody can stop this incredible force of nature.:ok:
A good reminder to us all, spoiled humans.:ugh:

[FR1A]

S..Heavy,

Maybe the so called over reaction to the flu epidemic worked and prevented it from spreading.

If in doubt, there's no doubt.

[Nemrytter]

But a total shutdown of aviation? Without any scientific debate on concentration levels and dispersion?

Just because you are not involved in the debate does not mean it is not happening. I got 3 hours sleep last night because I was busy trying to provide the relevant people with high quality data regarding the ash. I've spent all day today dealing with calls and emails from scientists wanting information about how well some satellite sensors that I worked on can detect the ash. There is plenty of debate about it, and this debate will continue.

I'm afraid the "better safe than sorry" attitude does not cut it. Because the apparently safe decision may and will have unforeseen aftereffects that may be quite detrimental to safety levels. Like a lack of trust in the next stern warnings. One can only shout "wolf" so often before it becomes ineffective.

So you'd rather that the NAT etc close the stable door after the horse has bolted?
Frankly that is a reckless and dangerous attitude to take. Do you need an accident to happen just to prove that this ash is a problem?

[garp]

Are we talking hours, days or weeks? No idea really.

[Buckster]

I assume UK is particularly prone to be effected badly - in an event like this (meteo combined with the eruption) due to our relatively small size, and how close the airports are together ?

presumably in larger countries there are more possibilities to divert around ? and or divert to other airports a bit further away.