British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)

[TightSlot]

This thread is intended for use by people presently employed as airline staff.

If you do not fall into this category - please do not post here: Please visit the Pax/SLF Forum where there is an active thread running HERE (http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/409355-ba-strike-your-thoughts-rants.html) that welcomes your thoughts.

[sparkoflife]

Hi - I'm a cabin crew volunteer (not a pilot), due to report for standby for the first time today. Over the last 48 hours I've been in contact with many of my volunteer coleagues, and they inform me that very few of them were allocated flights due to regular crew reporting for duty.

I hope to be able to update later, when I've seen for myself what's really going on!

[Human Factor]

A lot of volunteers have been reporting for their rostered flights and been replaced by regular crew as they arrive. Cabin crew have been instructed to report for their original rostered duties (or they'll be "on strike") and are being placed on standby to depart on the next appropriate trips.

Some volunteers have flown but most have not been needed. Pilot volunteers are being stood down first so you have more chance of flying than they do.

[IYCSWICSWICW]

Hello, I,m a SH pilot with BA.

In order to form a constructive view point over BA v BASSA, could I humbly suggest that everyone reads the company ESS mail bulletins, in parallel with, the UNITE missives.

[Juan Tugoh]

From FT.com - a subscription website hence the quote rather than a link.

As the airline and union traded claims about the impact of the strike, Tony Woodley, Unite’s joint general secretary, said he was trying to contact Martin Broughton, BA chairman, to help end the dispute before a second four-day stoppage next Saturday.

Mr Broughton told the Financial Times last night he had no intention of intervening “because Willie Walsh is doing a great job” and the entire board supported him.

“The ball is in Tony Woodley’s court,” Mr Broughton said.

JT

[Doors To Manuel]

What effect is all this really having on our business?

I have been closely watching a staff travel round trip opportunity to the USA, outbound on 2nd April, returning 17th April. Over the past 5 days here's what has happened (fact!):

The 2nd April departure continues to book healthily, as I would expect, with a net addition over 5 days of more than 50 passengers.
Conclusion: customers are sticking with us when they know there will definitely NOT be a strike.

The 17th April departure is dead in the water. Net increase in bookings is too embarassing to be told.
Conclusion: while strike threats continue with uncertainty, customers are no longer willing to take a chance.

My take-out: if we can get this nonsense behind us quickly then we still have a business. If it drags on.....................who knows?

I hope both sides get back round the table soon.

[Nutjob]

Had another go at working last night. Reported mid-evening for XXX (Africa) and the CRC was pretty busy (100+ cabin crew and 50+ groundstaff / managers). Everyone seemed in a good, but slightly reserved, mood with most just talking more quietly than usual. I got the impression that this was sort of in recognition of the severity of the situation and the underlying tensions. Many crew worried about the reaction of striking "friends" when they found out.

Spoke to a few managers and support staff. They said that the attendance figures were slightly better than yesterday (55% vs 52%) but that they had no chance of predicting how many crew would turn up for each flight. For example, only 3 turned up for Saturday's HKG (lucrative trip) whilst some of the African destinations (not lucrative) had almost full complements. Work that one out!

Anyway, we had more than enough cabin crew, so 3 of us were reallocated duties (back to the hotel for me) and one volunteer pilot was sent home - with 3 of them operating. I left just before the briefing started for real and as there was no CSD or PSR, the most senior crew member was asked to work up - with no notice. I hope she was ok as she looked a little shell-shocked.

So, I add my voice to those than can confirm that crew are coming to work and that things seem to be running well. One thing that I think is a shock to the crew that do turn up is that all the B777's are going with 8 crew only due to the reduced service and need to man as many flights as possible. I could see the stirrings of "but we can't do that" in the eyes of one or two but then acceptance seemed to kick in and no-one actually voiced an objection.

Finally, crewing are waiting until literally check-in time to see how many crew have reported and then allocate / send home the CC and volunteer pilots as required. This takes up 10 minutes of your normal briefing time.

[wiggy]

As HF as said it's a bit hit and miss...I operated a Long Haul Flight to a Top Secret destination a long way from Heathrow yesterday..none of the volunteers ( a mix of pilots and groundstaff) were bumped, they were all used - and judging by the passenger comments on disembarkation they did a very good job.

I hope that if you do get "used" :\ you get a good trip.

[Get Smart]

Does anyone know what has happened to the rosters of those who have already been on strike? Have they been wiped? :eek:

[Abbey Road]

Nutjob

For example, only 3 turned up for Saturday's HKG (lucrative trip) whilst some of the African destinations (not lucrative) had almost full complements. Work that one out!Self explanatory, I suspect!

A lucrative HKG, probably completely crewed by more senior cabin crew, who are more likely to be staunch BASSA supporters, attempting to play BASSA's game. My guess is that the majority of the no-shows will have 'pulled a sickie'. Unfortunately, whichever way you look at it, strike or sickie, they have shot themselves in the foot - by-bye lucrative anything! As 'BASSA believers' they may just have relied on the obvious (to everybody else) nonsense coming from the Unite/BASSA camp, and it will now come back to bite them.

The African destinations will have more of the junior cabin crew, who are facing a rapid realisation that BASSA's remit is to look after the senior lot, to the detriment of all others. These junior personnel are used to doing the non-lucrative trips, so no big deal for them, and they have probably seen through the juvenile bluster that pours weakly from the Unite/BASSA camp.

C'est la vie!

[Nutjob]

Does anyone know what has happened to the rosters of those who have already been on strike? Have they been wiped?

No-one seems quite sure. Most strikers seem to have had XXXX placed on their roster for all these strike days but reports are unclear as to whether that has extended into MBT's on non-strike days.

A few strikers have tried their staff travel and HAVE been able to book tickets.

Saying that, I'd doubt roster clearance or ST blocks are BA's priorities at the moment.

[Eddy]

People who have been on strike and missed trips have started being re-rostered for duties after Phase One.

[Dr Stoke]

On the GMTV poll this morning public support for Cabin Crew seems strong.

Either that or it's all over the BASSA forum to urgently vote in favour.

it started at 90:10 against now its nearer 50:50

Register ur vote will only take a sec

Do you support the strike by British Airways cabin crew? | Polls | GMTV (http://www.gm.tv/polls/46820-british-airways-strike-poll.html)

Mod Edit - POLL CLOSED

[JustAnother777Driver]

It seems to me that if BA think they can run an almost full program with minimum crew on each jet then they WILL wipe the rosters of all the crew that have been on strike. When news of that gets out, very few will strike next weekend IMHO.

The board's strategy is as much about culture change in BA as anything else.

Unfortunately for the individuals concerned, IMHO those who have not backed BA will not be coming back to work at BA. :eek:

[Eddy]

For some reason, the poll appears to have vanished (or been pulled).... It shows up in search results, but not as an actual page.

And again, those who have been on strike are already being re-rostered for duties after the strike is over (Phase One, atleast).

[Meal Chucker]

On the GMTV poll this morning public support for Cabin Crew seems strong.

Either that or it's all over the BASSA forum to urgently vote in favour.

it started at 90:10 against now its nearer 50:50

Register ur vote will only take a sec

Do you support the strike by British Airways cabin crew? | Polls | GMTV (http://www.gm.tv/polls/46820-british-airways-strike-poll.html)


This link has been posted on the Bassa and Crew forums.

[Eddy]

This link has been posted on the Bassa and Crew forums.I do wish we'd be allowed to see a completely unbiased poll on this issue.

[Meal Chucker]

Eddy,

I agree, I have no problems with it being posted on these sites, but its hardly an unbiased vote when some posters on the Bassa/Crew Forum have posted instructions on how to clear the cookies on your computer and vote again and again!!

[Abbey Road]

Eddy,
And again, those who have been on strike are already being re-rostered for duties after the strike is over (Phase One, atleast).Perhaps you could expand on that for us? I have heard some rumours that striking BA staff would not be allowed to return to work between the the 2 sets of strike dates. Haven't seen it confirmed by the company, but it has been hinted at.

Do you know if strikers from this weekend are being rostered to work within the 4 days (Tuesday to Friday) between the announced strike dates? Or is this for after the second 4-day strike period? Those that have been confirmed as strikers, or currently 'sick', are going to have a devil of a time getting to work if they use BA flights from other parts of the UK, or Europe, or further afield.

It will be interesting to see whether BA cancels staff-travel tickets, issued prior to strikes being announced, for those strikers and sickies hoping to travel this week or next! I suspect BA probably will.

Meal Chucker,
... but its hardly an unbiased vote when some posters on the Bassa/Crew Forum have posted instructions on how to clear the cookies on your computer and vote again and again!!Sadly, this sort of 'underhand' behaviour is becoming known as the modus operandi for BASSA and Unite die-hards. They appear incapable of doing anything above board. With their case being so weak, one can perhaps understand why, but that doesn't make it right. Dishonesty has, and is, being revealed at many levels amongst the tub-thumpers.

[Juan Tugoh]

Public opinion IS important. If the perception is that UNITE are winning the battle then it will embolden and encourage them. People who are undecided about whether or not to strike may well be swayed into inaction by this perception. The opposite is also true. If enough people are persuaded to stay away then UNITE will win and BA will be grounded.

[bmimainline]

I am not a BA employee, I am a pilot. I wanted to make some observations. Heathrow (at least it was yesterday) was awash with red, white and blue aircraft. Mostly parked up between the runways at the eastern end of the airfield. There are also some parked around the T5 stands - some 3 aircraft to a stand. As we took off last night there were lots of aircraft parked at T5 but most seemed to be wet leased. There is a lot of rhetoric coming from both sides and I suspect that the truth lies, as it always does, somewhere in the middle. My company is carrying enormous numbers of BA customers all over the place and doing everything they possibly can to keep them. The point I am trying to make is that no matter where you stand on the issues involved the strike is having a massive impact on BA and it's reputation around the world. I hope that a resolution can be found but given that both sides have taken to the trenches with their tin hats on it is difficult to see how that is going to happen. At least in the near future.

[Eddy]

Perhaps you could expand on that for us? I'm afraid I'm not in a position of being able to do so.

Since day one of the strike, I haven't seen another change to my roster. News of rosters being filled in for duties after these three strike dates comes from a friend of mine who I trust implicitly.

[sparkoflife]

Flicking between Sky and BBC, the message seems to be that the strikers have the upper hand. I'm hearing what I know to be untruths from Unite, but very little to refute them from BA. I agree wholeheartedly that public opinion is important, and the public is getting the message that BA is in trouble. However, it remains to be seen what action BA will take over the next few days...

[Eddy]

Sky News (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Business/BA-Strikes-Third-And-Final-Day-Of-Industrial-Action-But-No-Resolution-In-Sight/Article/201003415579046?lpos=Business_Carousel_Region_3&lid=ARTICLE_15579046_BA_Strikes%3A_Third_And_Final_Day_Of_In dustrial_Action_But_No_Resolution_In_Sight) Please tell me the chap in picture 19 of 50 isn't wearing a t-shirt with Willie Walsh's face super-imposed over a picture of Adolf Hitler....

[Abbey Road]

Eddy,
Since day one of the strike, I haven't seen another change to my roster. News of rosters being filled in for duties after these three strike dates comes from a friend of mine who I trust implicitly.That is what I am trying to get clarified. Does your friend say that these rosters are being "filled in for duties" for Tuesday-Friday this week or is it for after the second strike period (Saturday 26th - Tuesday 30th April). Forgive me, but you haven't yet made that entirely clear - perhaps ask your friend again? Thanks.

And, yes, that T-shirt has been done to make WW look like Adolf Hitler. That chap wearing it, if he is a BA employee, is going to be toast when this is over. He won't have a job with BA.

Bear in mind that the 'crowds' we keep seeing at Bedfont are not all cabin crew - lots of their family members and friends have been dragged in to swell numbers.

[Eddy]

Not entirely sure, AR, and cannot get in touch with my friend. But I believe it's for this week.

[Rover90]

Abbey Road commented:
A lucrative HKG, probably completely crewed by more senior cabin crew The African destinations will have more of the junior cabin crew Statements like this are not an accurate representation, BA Cabin Crew rostering is not a bid system and there is a very effective roster equalization program in place that levels the “playing field” over a rolling 14 month period. Despite feeling that one has a rubbish roster very few people can actually demonstrate that when they ask for an audit of their past roster.

Any given HKG or NBO would have a reasonable cross section of crew seniority rostered. The more popular trips HKG, BKK, SIN, CPT etc are frequently requested by individuals or groups quite legally a couple or so times a year depending on grade up to a max of 4 for a full time CSD.

It would be naïve to deny that after roster publication that there could be a little selective sickness or discrete allocation of unfilled positions to certain individuals but in the main the system is pretty solid and well regulated.

One final thought, and this is tongue in cheek to make a point.

BASSA/UNITE have reduced their figure from 90% support yesterday morning to 80% today as the level of support from their members, that would be 8,800 out of 11,000 members. As someone who was not required to swipe in over this period, UNITE has therefore assumed that I am supporting the strike so I look forward to getting my £30 per day from them together with the other 8799 members, total £264,000 per day. Personally, I am more than happy with the current arrangement that I have with BA.

[ranger07]

The union has this morning claimed that more than 140 BA aircraft were standing idle at Heathrow, but this figure was disputed by a Sky News source which said it was closer to 36.

You could'nt make it up...or could you?:\

[Right Engine]

The CRC is busy with real Cabin Crew (Not volunteers). UNITE's press releases are understandably saying the opposite - This is a war and war requires propaganda, but as far as 'covering the operation' goes, BA contingencies are working remarkably well.

What the press are failing to appreciate is that very few people stuck with BA over the strike dates, so it is quite understandable that hardly anyone is flying with us at the moment. I foresee a considerable increase in flights out of LHR next weekend, judging from the number of Cabin Crew who cannot back BASSA's foolish stance.

I would also urge anyone who has been on strike that they are tight lipped on their return to work. BA is taking any threatening and bullying behaviour very seriously. Do yourself a favour and keep your mouth shut as no-one outside your BASSA forum 'enclave' backs your action. I will be operating as a skipper on Wednesday and if I get any sniff of trouble I will off-load you.

[ranger07]

Eloquently put, hope your colleagues have a similar stance!

[Eddy]

I wish they'd send a news chopper up to get pictures of all the planes at heathrow. That way we could put these ridiculous rumours to rest. And regardless of what side of the argument I'm on I cannot abide lies in a quest to garner support. These rumours, as with those about the number of people reporting for wrk, are absolutely enough to influence decisions. And those spinning these lies should be ashamed.

[bacabincrew]

Do yourself a favour and keep your mouth shut as no-one outside your BASSA forum 'enclave' backs your action. I will be operating as a skipper on Wednesday and if I get any sniff of trouble I will off-load you.

I think it is appalling that you are posting such a thing. The strike is perfectly legal and it is every employees democratic right to withdraw their labour.

[ranger07]

The point Right Engine is making is off loading any one causing trouble, fair and valid me thinks!

[bacabincrew]

BY telling people to 'do themselves a favour and keep your mouth shut' is a quite clear threat

[wiggy]

The strike is perfectly legal and it is every employees democratic right to withdraw their labour

Yes it is, and we all need to bear in mind it is also every employee's democratic right to go to work, and they also have the right to work without being bullied and/or harrassed.

[bacabincrew]

Wiggy

I agree with you totally - people live and stand by their own decisions, however being threatened not to 'open your mouth' or be 'offloaded' is great CRM for moving forward isn't it?

[dave747436]

After all the usual life & death stuff, my number 1 priority will also be to protect strikers and non-strikers from each other.

bacabincrew, I fully agree that you have the right to withdraw your labour, but you have absolutely no right to bully or harass those who chose not to strike (and vice versa, of course).(Not suggesting YOU would, of course, but this is the subject RE was referring to).

I agree with Right Engine, I will off-load with very little provocation indeed.

[bacabincrew]

Dave

I agree with you the bullying (from both sides) during this dispute is unacceptable - however it is going to be discussed on-board - that is a fact that you cannot get away from.

I do not think that intimidating crew to 'keep their mouth shut' is the right way of doing things - I would much prefer a decent Captain come into the briefing room and say something along the lines of 'dispute over for now, lets get on and do a professional job and keep the rights and wrongs for your own time - not whilst on-board'.

[wiggy]

From conversations I have had at work over the last 24 hours there's no doubt that many who crossed the picket line, for whatever reason, are very scared about being identified because they fear retribution from the Union hardliners. BA have already told the senior managers on board, the Flight Crew, to be on the lookout for intimidation. Whilst I wouldn't use the terminology Right Engine used I know where he's coming from and I think it's only fair to point out that people need to be very careful what they say in the near future.

It sure is going to continue to be difficult for some time, I have no idea how or if we are going to reconcile the various factions - it may not be possible. As you say the issue of CRM, moving forward, is going to be fraught with difficulties.

[bacabincrew]

Thanks for that post - very well put, and as I said earlier - I agree that bullying is not acceptable - it does however work both ways

[cheeky chappy]

I think the fact that Tony Woodley is appealing to the board for fresh talks while BA are just carrying on with the operation says a lot about who is more desperate for the IA to end, no?

[dave747436]

Agreed. But I think Right Engine's advice to "keep your mouth shut" was for the protection of both parties involved... (expressed in a slightly less-than-fluffy way!)

[bacabincrew]

BA carrying on with the operation?

This is turning into an absolute disaster for BA - they are running circa 50% of their schedule, with many flights carrying very few passengers and a number of services departing empty.

The fact that a number of volunteers have not been required is due to the numbers of passengers on-board that means flights can leave with only 8 crew.

Many people on this forum over the last few months have made numerous comments such as:

1 Strike over in 2 hours
2 No-one will strike
3 First strikers sacked on day 1
4 All strikers locked out

Etc etc etc

Very few people, Mr Walsh included, envisaged this dispute running for the full 3 days with the level of support that the strike has had - and what you have to understand is that those who went on strike this weekend will be on strike next weekend as well. BA's management have grossly misjudged the commitment of their employees to taking strike action.

And for what it is worth - even I am surprised at the levels of support

[MrBunker]

BAcabincrew,

That's not true. Just because your service agreements specify a number of crew per aircraft, it's legal, for example, for a full 777 to depart with 8 crew only. That's the legal minimum and doesn't mean there's no passengers on board. BA are working to scheme right now - industrial limits and agreements are suspended to all intents and purposes.

That, however, is the kind of thing BASSA would love you to believe.

MrB

[bacabincrew]

Hi there - no sorry maybe I wasnt clear on that - I meant the 8 crew could be utilised because load factors where low and could justify operating with 8 and still carrying out a service.

I wasnt trying to infer that all those operating with 8 had no passengers on

[MrBunker]

Sorry,

I perhaps wasn't clear either. The fact is that the authorities are happy with a fully-loaded 777 going out with 8 crew. The service has already been curtailed to factor in both this and the volunteer status of some crew.

[ottergirl]

More than my jobs worth to copy and paste it on here but it appears that someone has got hold of a breakdown of all the flights that left yesterday (the implication being it has been leaked from WTS), the number of crew on each and the load factors. The 65 long-haul flights that did get away had either quite substantial loads or (around 30) were empty and the number of cabin crew in total used was around 465 when normal operations would need 2500. Of those there is no breakdown as to how many were existing crew and how many volunteers. Obviously all 747's can be presumed to have existing crew. Have a look on CF if you want to see it.

[bacabincrew]

Yes - I have seen that list as well - a few flights where quite full with only 8 crew (thats what I was trying to say MrB)

[wiggy]

I meant the 8 crew could be utilised because load factors where low and could justify operating with 8 and still carrying out a service.


Sorry but no, it's not working like that. I'm operating a 777 in the very near future, 8 crew the Cabin, and a booked load of well above 80%.

[bacabincrew]

I think the point is irrelevant anyway because rumour has it that strikers are not going to be rostered to come to work until next weekend anyway. Oh, and they are not going to be paid either, so no point in celebrating those XXXXXs on your roster just yet.

You are correct in so much that many crew are not coming back in till next weekend. It appears that all Crew who have been on strike are XXXX'd until the end of the rostered duty that they went on strike for, including the MBT's that the trip generated - the forward roster has not been wiped beyond the trip missed.

[The SSK]

From Management Today - possibly a reasonable reflection of what 'The City' thinks:

BA winning battle for sympathy as strike continues news by Email - Management Today (http://www.managementtoday.co.uk/newsalerts/dailynews/news/991799/BA-winning-battle-sympathy-strike-continues/?DCMP=EMC-Daily%20News)

[bacabincrew]

Hi there - yes indeed it seems that some flights are operating with quite healthy loads and only have 8 CC

[ottergirl]

That doesn't address the short-haul rosters. They may well be back at work tomorrow. i have a gap on my briefing sheet for tomorrow but there is no way of knowing whether that was originally a crew member who was striking, or has been suspended on other issues, or is off sick.

The service for the last few days has been so limited that I imagine 8 crew could manage a 777. I'm not sure I'd want to though!!

[GS-Alpha]

BA are obviously going to roster striking crews to come in during the next strike. They either do not come in and continue to be unpaid and BA has lost nothing, or they begin to change their minds and come back to work. BA has nothing to lose and everything to gain by rostering current strikers to come to work during the next strike period.

My personal thoughts on the strike so far. BA are totally 100% in control of the situation. There is obviously loss of revenue, but nothing that is above what BA was expecting and therefore it was all very well pre-planned. BA did not back down at the 11th hour because they know that this extent of pain is acceptable and they know what their contingency plans are. Unite can only guess and have no contingency other than to continue with the rhetoric. The cabin crew have no contingency other than to use their credit cards... No wonder the Chairman is saying that Willie is doing a great job - it is all proceeding like clockwork.

Unite claim that this strike is damaging BA and so is not in its interest. BA have done the figures, they know what is in their interest and what is not. Of course the strike is damaging revenue at present, but long term this will be recovered from either the striking crew or perhaps Unite themselves?

Overall I am dead certain that this dispute is still in fact absolutely in BA's long term interest. The flip side of the coin is that it is most definitely not in the long term, short term, or any kind of term for that matter, interests of the striking cabin crew.

One day you will all come to realise this. The only thing I am unsure of, is how long it will take for the penny to drop, and how much money you yourselves will have lost in the meantime.

[Pin-Lever-Pin]

The service for the last few days has been so limited that I imagine 8 crew could manage a 777. I'm not sure I'd want to though!!

I've just completed a 777 trip with 8 crew (4 regular crew and 4 volunteers), the service was fine, despite being trimmed down, and I have to say everyone made it work and this was recognised by the passengers.

There was a great atmosphere on board and at the end I knew my decision to volunteer, despite being a 'Guardian reading lefty', was the right one.

I don't know what benefit there is in the continual trading of figures and statistics about who turned up and how many planes took off, as one can always find a statistic to counter another. I can say that more flights have departed than were planned for the current disruption period and indeed people have been sent home as there was a surplus of regular cabin crew.
On my flight we ended up with two extra crew members at the briefing who were stood down.

On a personal note, as one who has friends on either side of the line, is that I'm proud of those of you who had the courage to come in to work under the enormous pressure that has existed to do otherwise and to those of you who 'downed tools' get the result that you wish for.

Above thoughts and opinions are mine and mine alone.

[cheeky chappy]

BA carrying on with the operation?
Yes, carrying on with the operation, a limited one perhaps but a fuller operation than the company originally said they would.
Fact is that the strike has not grounded the airline and Unite are the ones loudly protesting that talks should be resumed. The company is just carrying on trying to fly as many passengers as it can and it's doing pretty well. It would almost appear that they don't want you back.
I doubt that you have set foot in T5 over the last few days but those of us who have will have seen that it's been reasonably busy and getting busier each day. Hardly the "Ghost town" that Unite would have everyone believe.
Strangely I don't think it's been as much of a PR disaster as some make out as Joe public can plainly see that depite Unites best efforts BA have planned well and are getting on with it.

[bacabincrew]

Joe public can plainly see that depite Unites best efforts BA have planned well and are getting on with it.

Unfortunately they can't though can they? With a total media blackout from within T5 and Mr Walsh not raising his head above the parapet - the public see what the public get - ie aircraft taking off and nobody knowing how many on-board or how many crew.

If it had all gone so well 'to plan' Mr Walsh would have had every single news crew in there filming the 49,000 passengers a day moving through T5 - the fact that yesterday around 8/9,000 flew with BA tells a story in itself

[L337]

Media reporting of British Airways' operation

After a number of inaccurate media reports on the airline's operation over the weekend, British Airways has issued the following statement.

MEDIA REPORTING OF BRITISH AIRWAYS’ OPERATION

Some media reports on our flight operations during the period of Unite’s strike have appeared to give equal weight to information we have issued as to claims made by Unite.

As a PLC, British Airways is legally obliged to ensure that it does not release information that is misleading or inaccurate. Information concerning our operation is clearly market sensitive.

This information includes matters such as numbers of passengers we are able to carry, numbers of flights operated and numbers of crew reporting for work. Any suggestion in media reports that information we have issued is untrue implies that the airline’s management is acting unlawfully.

Unite and its cabin crew branch BASSA are under no such legal constraints. A great deal of the information they have put out over the last three days has no basis in fact. For example, Unite has no way of obtaining accurate figures as to how many customers are on our aircraft or how many crew are reporting for work. Similarly, as some media reports have pointed out, Unite’s claims about the location of British Airways aircraft have been false.

It is extremely confusing for our customers when the content of some media reports conflicts with information we have provided via ba.com and direct communications in an effort to minimise uncertainty about travel plans.

We have no difficulty with media desire to report Unite’s strike impartially. We believe this objective, and the objective of accurate reporting, is assisted by rigorous assessment by media organisations of the information they receive.

[cheeky chappy]

the fact that yesterday around 8/9,000 flew with BA tells a story in itself
And a link or source for that "fact" perhaps...
'cos I don't believe a word of it

[BentleyH]

Hi there,

Just writing this post from Boston having operated out as volunteer SCCM last night. Nutjob is exactly right with the process being used in CRC.
The place was very busy yesterday afternoon with lots of cabin crew reporting for work.
One of our flight crew vols was sent home as we had four crew report for duty. Neither the CSD or Purser showed up.
So we had me as SCCM, three very experienced crew who were all brilliant, one ex temp back on a new temporary contract (they trained up 60 crew in one week!), who was also brilliant, one customer service agent on her first trip and two other flight crew vols.
The flight was fantastic, we had 238 customers and the service worked really well. The passengers were so appreciative and even gave us a round of applause when we arrived in Boston. Saying bye to everyone at Door 2 was a fantastic experience and I was really proud of everyone on board. Nobody wanted this dispute for sure, but after the way Unite and BASSA have behaved, it was brilliant to see the reaction of passengers yesterday. Now looking forward to tonight's flight home. We only have about 150 passengers going home, but all three Boston flights have operated as full commercial services on each day of the strike and the local staff here are delighted.

I see BA has issues a statement concerning the false information being spread around by BASSA/Unite.

Every time I read their latest bit of diatribe, it makes me so angry, however after a few minutes, that anger turns into confidence that these are the last few throws of the dice for an out of date trade union in dire trouble.
Just a shame a lot of misguided crew are being caught in the crossfire along with the hotheads and militants.

Can't wait to see what my next trip is now. I have a feeling this might go on for a while now....

[air2bob]

For those outside of aviation (which is the majority) view the parked up planes on tv and make their own conclusions.
Regardless of if those planes have been there for months or not due to the downturn makes no difference just seeing row upon row of ba planes bound for nowhere is very very damaging to ba I mean would you make a booking with them at present?
I have a friend who was a temp last year and got the call to come back to cover the strike on dreadful pay (her choice to accept the job I know). She has flown nowhere yet so ba customers must be flying on chartered out flights.

The word between crew seems to be if you voted to strike and didnt come in at weekend :ok:
If you voted no to the strike and came in to operate:ok:
The venom is aimed towards the yes voters who went in :yuk:
I have a feeling this will drag on and on.

[Eddy]

Not that I am the messiah or anythig, but I have decided to post my feelings on this whole subject in full and in spite of the trrouble that may cause for me with the company and possibly my union. It will be an honest, no holds barred report of day one of the strike which is the only day on whicxh I was impacted. Stand by or that in a few hours.

[Magplug]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00699/morland_699748a.jpg

[demomonkey]

WW probably has been too media shy and maybe now the initial strike is over he could invite the Press in for a short information release and statement. A la his YouTube pieces but straight to the massed hordes of reporters.

Tony Woodley however spoken to every media outfit who stuck a microphone in front of him and it did feel that this morning he was starting to sound desperate. Suggesting that both parties should meet again for talks gave a hint of minor panic because he is being ignored. I think both the BBC and Sky picked up on this and the more positive coverage Unite had received this morning seemed to fall away a little.

[dave747436]

bacabincrew said:
the fact that yesterday around 8/9,000 flew with BA tells a story in itself

I don't think you can judge the success or failure of the operation by the number of passengers carried.

BA offered refunds/re-booking over strike days, so of course loads are going to be low. Most of our passengers decided that they simply couldn't take the chance. (Can hardly blame them!)

BA have said that their reports MUST be factual, because investors base decisions on them.

The evidence of my own eyes also leads me to believe that around 50% of crew were reporting for duty, on Saturday at least (the last time I was in CRC).

My belief is that BA will win eventually. Because if it looks like it's going to lose it will issue 90-day notice on CC contracts.
This is not conjecture - in the last offer from BA, there is a statement that if the way BA & the unions do business hasn't changed by June, it will issue 90-day notice.

The worst possible case for CC is a long drawn out dispute - only a knockout blow of 100% support on day 1 would have won the day, and that clearly is not the case (whatever UNITE claim.)

There are huge changes heading our way (all employees) over the next 12 months.

Cabin Crew NEED their reps at the negotiating table influencing this change, not standing out in the rain holding a banner.

My wife is a WW Purser, and the longer this goes on, the more I fear for her future.

[The Blu Riband]

I have been in the CRC frequently during the last 3 days.

The numbers BA claim seem about right.

Today the % of crew seems even higher than over the weekend.

Very few vols are actually flying.

Minimum crew still being used ; but no flights have been cancelled due insufficient crew.

In fact BA now has a full complement of QRS and airport standby crew too ( real ones) !!!

On average there are around 150 crew (i'm guessing) at any time.

For Bassa to claim only 26 turned up is an unbelievable lie.
There are 26 in the queue for coffee at the moment.

I just hope that Willie protects the non strikers!!

[Dr Stoke]

Here we go another public opinion poll BASSA is trying to win by encouraging all it's members to vote and re-vote on.

Think they won the GMTV one earlier today as they advised that u can delete the cookies and therefore vote more than once.

92% against the strike then managed to finish 52% in favour.

Money Saving Expert: Consumer Revenge - Credit Cards, Shopping, Bank Charges, Cheap Flights and more (http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/)

It's at the bottom of the page and only takes a sec.

"its fixed voted 3 times clearing my cookies out each time"

[spacedog]

I have just left the office at approx 1400.
During that time 52 BA aircraft excluding wet lease aircraft departed T5.
37 of these flights had passengers on board in many cases the load factor was 85pc or above. There were a couple of flights re-instated at a late stage that operated with a full complement of crew but only a handfull of passengers. 15 flight departed as freighters however they too had cabin crew on board ready for the the return sectors.

[rzw30]

The problem is you can't.

Turn back the clock that is. Of course the deal on offer last Friday was worse than the previous one.

The next one will be even worse for the obvious reason that this IA is costing BA millions, both now and in future lost revenue.

Before I left BA many people felt that the airline was somehow "special", deserved more money, people would fly BA well, because it was the flag carrier, a National Icon, whatever. So the overhead in Waterside could pay themselves above market rates, People in such departments as IM could develop poorly cost justified systems which ended up by costing money rather than saving money, and it was fine for cabin crew to be paid 50% more than say easyjet.

I have to say that Joe Public probably does not care a great deal about who operates the tube in which he flies.

I think Mr. Walsh knows that. The BA cost structure is simply wrong for the 21st century.

Go back to work while there is still an airline.

[Human Factor]

A great deal of the information they have put out over the last three days has no basis in fact.

Meanwhile, somewhere in South Wales yesterday ......

http://redirectingat.com/?id=42X487496&url=http%3A%2F%2Fi41.tinypic.com%2F2iqd36a.jpg

:=:=:=

Thanks for your assistance, Mariner9.

[uni1]

Cabin Crew NEED their reps at the negotiating table influencing this change, not standing out in the rain holding a banner

Then why has BA not commented on or accepted UNITE's offer to get back around the table to resolve this before the next "wave" of strikes on Sat. Oh yes, that's right, WW, the "special one" as Chelsea fans would say is bunkered down in Waterworld and not "allowed" out.

If everyone behaved like adults, WW included and got back around a table then hopefully, just hopefully this might get sorted.

I dread to think what WW was like as a kid, he's throwing his toys out the cot like a spoilt child, he must have been a nightmare kid to bring up if this is how he behaves.

[Right Touch]

UNI1 your reps have had since the beginning of last year to thrash out a deal with the company . Other departments in BA Managed to make the given deadline of June 2009 for cost savings , why not yours ?

Remember the High Court ruling recently published where the judge criticised Unite and Amicus reps ( ie Bassa & CC89 ) for not even being able to sit in the same room as each other at the ACAS meetings because of their past disagreements and history ?

Hardly the behaviour of adults , more like the spoilt child you make out WW to be , and yet your happy this is the calibre of people leading you to oblivion ?

[Sporran]

uni1

Most of us who believe that the bassa numpties have led cc 'up the garden path' DO NOT WANT the company to offer further talks. The vile and disgusting influence of the really militant bassa-ites need to be put in their place - PERMANENTLY!!

There are dozens of first-hand reports of how pleasant the flights have been without the miseries! Of how well the pax have reacted to those that have gone the extra mile.

I hope WW makes bassa stew - and offers an even worse deal. He will need to offer a worse deal to ensure that those selfish individuals that have cost the company so much money - pay their way!!

[uni1]

I'd rather be led by these reps than by WW himself, god knows where we'll all end up there.

If the rest of Waterworld and/or BA want to accept the deal(s) that were put in front of them then that's their choice. No-one in their right mind would accept a deal that wasn't fair and reasonable and comparible to what has been settled elsewhere in the airline.

And as for WW doing what he was told as a kid, shame he didn't follow some of it through to his adult lift, i.e. sit in a corner and only speak when spoken to ... :rolleyes:.

[Right Touch]

uni1 THE REST OF BA sat down looked at the figures presented to them and NEGOTIATED a settlement which was mutually benefical to all parties given the current economic climate.

BASSAs response was to stick their fingers in their ears.

The initial offer from BA was fair given the circumstances and offered NO pay cuts, NO New fleet just a Reduced Crew compliments in line with LGW and the removal of the disruption agreement.

All in all pretty fair and reasonable

Compare that now to what you are now facing thanks to BASSAs refusal to negotiate.
Remember it was BASSA who came up with the pay cut not the company !!

Still happy to be led by your Reps ??

[apaddyinuk]

What really makes me laugh is the number of you who take WW word as gospil and anything that comes out of the Unite campus as total lies.

The truth is both sides are lying and fibbing.

None of you seem to know much about the Aer Lingus problems when WW was there. He is using the exact same tactics as back then and making the same misleading remarks and making BOTH SIDES look like fools!

But at the end of the day he will get after all of you and attack your pay and jobs because he really believes that he can get away with anything.

And for the record....negotiation is a two way street for both sides to strike out "deals"! Not for one side to dictate what the other must accept.....thats communism!

[uni1]

"BASSAs response was to stick their fingers in their ears"

Quite happy to be led by the reps that want a FAIR settlement for all and not just the one sided "fairness" that WW wants to impose.

As for other parts of the airline, sitting down and listening to both sides - I am sorry to say that the Unions on the ground for the most part are weak and would negotiate anything to save themselves the long hard slog to get something that is more reasonable to both sides. I know, I used to work on the ground for 15 years and the unions there were useless.

And finally as for sticking fingers in ears, isn't that what WW does, he just likes the sound of his own voice too much :ugh:

[License to Fly]

So the 1st stike ends today, but for Longhaul volunteers leaving LHR today it could be a hard week as they could be sharing hotels with (striking) crew who leave LHR tomorrow ... there are a number of trips that have 48 hour+ layovers. I know LH cabin crew, who have commented to other crew (on a trip) they will not strike, only to find no-one has spoken to them for the rest of that trip - it shows how vindictive some people are, a real shame.

I hope that any bullying or aggressive comments are dealt with appropriately/assertively by the Captains - I guess that if anyone was offloaded for this they would struggle to keep their job on return to LHR.

I can only imagine what the next deal on the table will be for the cabin crew - when the dust settles I am sure the current offer will not cover all the cost of these 7 days of strikes ... its funny how Tony Woodley(:mad:) is now having to negotiate things like staff travel back in- I think the phrase 'digging a deep hole' might be appropriate!

Lets hope that Network Rail, the underground, et al. now have confidence to stand up and take on/beat these Unions - it seems to me that once strikes are called, the Unions are always confident of getting a good deal - maybe we will look back in a few years and see this as a turning point ...:D

[uni1]

Well said apaddyintheuk ... couldn't agree with you more :D

[Right Touch]

Quite happy to be led by the reps that want a FAIR settlement for all and not just the one sided "fairness" that WW wants to impose.




I would have thought working one down and a little bit harder for the same money is pretty fair in most peoples opinion , and certainly not worth risking the entire airlines future for.

[earleyboy]

At 0900 T5 numbers of CC who had turned up for work, 75% Longhaul and 68% Shorthaul. Great turnout lots of happy faces a few looks of concern (but not many). I have spoken to a few over the last few days saying thanks to CC saying thanks ,but today I would have had no voice left.

One young lad who looked very nervous when I meet him in the corridor on Saturday was so pleased when I spoke to him and said it was great to see him in was really appreciated by everybody, had a beaming smile when I left him and said he was so pleased to know that other BA staff would feel the same.

Knew there were far more CC staff in as the canteen was far busier this morning, even tho they had been selling 99p breakfasts for all BA staff for the last three days. Great photo of Cardiff. Unite and BASSA spin will surely bit them in the bum soon.

Again to all CC who read this and have turned THANKS :ok:

[Yeovil]

Spent the day in Cranebank today . The manager in the SEP forum gave out some real numbers for crew reporting. What the figures showed is a tangible increase each day.

It's my view that LHR could see 75 % OR HIGHER of crew reporting next Saturday.

Also; the staff travel subject was discussed. Its clear that many people have made great personal sacrifice to the "backing BA campaign". The pilots and other volunteers have given up many days to study prior to and during these cabin crew courses.

There is no way WW will want to slap these people in the face by returning staff travel privileges to strikers once they return to work. It's been explored by the lawyers many months ago and its clear. STRIKERS ( AND THOSE WITHOUT DISTINCT PROVEABLE SICKNESS) HAVE ALREADY LOST STAFF TRAVEL.

[Meal Chucker]

Quite happy to be led by the reps that want a FAIR settlement for all and not just the one sided "fairness" that WW wants to impose.

So please explain why Bassa's 'Fair' settlement involves LGW taking a pay cut to pay for the most expensive crew member, the LHR CSD, to go back to taking no part in the service?

[Jet II]

So please explain why Bassa's 'Fair' settlement involves LGW taking a pay cut to pay so that the most expensive crew member on board the LHR CSD can go back to taking no part in the service?

Yes quite - I couldn't really see why some of the poorest paid in the industry should take a paycut to protect the T&C's of the highest paid in the industry.

[Abbey Road]

The BASSA forum is apparently coming alive with posts about rosters in the coming week being wiped. It looks like the beginning of a plane to re-roster those who thought they might come in Tuesday to Friday this week for a trip, only to scurry away over the second-stage 4-day strike period. I think BA is going to call someones bluff here.

It is also worth bearing in mind that letter from Bill Francis to all cabin crew:

You will lose pay. By going on strike you are breaking your contract and the law says BA does not have to pay you for work you miss on account of going on strike.

You will not be paid from the point you do not report for duty up to the point we can reasonably allocate you another duty and you come in for that duty. The withdrawal of pay will include MBT or days off at the end of the duty that you do not report for (unless we are able to re-roster you during the MBT days and you report for work normally).

If you take strike action, are re-rostered your next duty during the second strike period and strike again, this may mean that you are not paid from the first day that you strike until we are able to roster you to work after the second strike.So, for those who have already been on strike, BA has already stopped their pay, and will not be paying them until "the point we can reasonably allocate you another duty and you come in for that duty." The duty will be called by BA, not some now-mythical roster. If cabin crew still don't show for something rostered this coming Saturday to Tuesday (27-30 March) then that is going to be a major slice of pay and allowances - well over a weeks worth. And still, strikers will not be working until BA says so. They might want to reflect very carefully on that.

Unite doesn't seem to have done it's sums. If it claims as many of it's members are on strike as it says, then how long does Unite think it can pay strikers the promised £30/day? If one generously assumes that Unite will only pay for the 7 announced strike dates (so far), that is £210/striker. Multiply that by the claimed 80% of it's members it keeps telling us are on strike (assume 80% of 11500 members = 9200 x £210) and that is going to cost Unite £1932000! £1.9 million per 7 days, folks! How long would Unite last if BA played hardball? But you and I know that it isn't 80% of BASSA out on strike, nothing like that. And so does Unite, but they seem content to lie publicly about it. Why? Because they are in a serious jam. A corner of their own making. But the lies and subversion will finally catch them out.

BASSA's latest missive is suggesting that strike breakers should be the first people put on to a New Fleet contract. There seems to be a complete blanking out of the fact that if the strikers have jobs after all this, then it is they who are in danger of being on a new, substantially reduced contract. BASSA and Unite - what a team, hey?

[Right Engine]

A reminder what I said, Do yourself a favour and keep your mouth shut as no-one outside your BASSA forum 'enclave' backs your action. I will be operating as a skipper on Wednesday and if I get any sniff of trouble I will off-load you.

To which BACabinCrew replied,
I think it is appalling that you are posting such a thing. The strike is perfectly legal and it is every employees democratic right to withdraw their labour.

Apologies for my direct wording. I respect your democratic right to withdraw your labour. What you are failing to appreciate is that many of your striking colleagues have chosen to be intimidating to those who exercise their democratic right to go to work. If you can't imagine the scenario let me try.

Briefing room. Militant SCCM. Most of the crew are listening intently to the diatribe of the BASSA hardliner. Body language of one individual- Eyes cast down. Militant SCCM sees this and focusses on the individual who evidently does not support their views. Direct question arises - "Did you come in to work?"

It is my intention to pop round to the briefing room and say, "If anyone feels that they are being intimidated in this room, come to me - I will not tolerate any bullying on our aircraft."

It's been said a thousand times, but no-one outside BASSA supports this action. A significant majority of these colleagues feel BA is not in a fit state to let UNITE/BASSA dictate to it. We have seen the final 'offers'. You will not be impoverished, in fact I still have a sour taste in my mouth knowing that the concessions my union, BALPA have made reduce my individual pay (% not £'s!) more than the offer would affect yours, despite the protestations BASSA are making.

I worked on Saturday - The act of bravery, coupled with pragmatism, that the cabin crew exhibited by turning up to work has earned them my unswerving loyalty. The least I can do is make an unpopular, but necessary speech in the Cabin Crew briefing room to protect these stalwarts from the BASSA wolves.

[strikemaster82]

@ apaddyinuk

The truth is both sides are lying and fibbing.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but BA have legal obligations to only release factual information. This is because it is a public company and false info could deceive investors.

On the contrary, BASSA puts out direct lies, for example 'only 26 crew reported' - there were more than that sitting in the coffee bar in CRC when I was there on day one.

BA have written to the BBC explaining that by giving each side equal weight, it detracts from BA's obligations as above. Lawyers have now been called in.

After UNITE have admitted defeat, I hope that any settlement doesn't disadvantage those cc who have loyally supported the company, they deserve to be rewarded, if anything.

[davecr]

I have returned from LHR after being stood down for my volunteering duties. I am estimating around 25 volunteer CC there when I checked in. When I left, 4 had been used, and the rest stood down.

Please, BA crew, start accepting that the union is feeding you absolute lies. CRC is full of "normal" crew, happy to operate. Yes, there is a reduced schedule, as planned. And yes, flights are going out with minimum crew. But to believe anything along the line of only 15% of crew reporting for duty is absolutely crazy.

Ask yourself, how does Unite come to this conclusion? They have NO way of telling who is reporting for duty. They DON'T know how many pax are on flights and they DON'T know where our aircraft are. Yet they are stating their "facts" as if they've personally verified them. If they are coming out with this rubbish as fact, what else are they lying to you about?

Think long and hard about your next step. You're being lied to by Unite and soon it will be to late to do anything about it.

[Jet II]

And the BASSA/Unite picket at Gatwick gave up very early today - before lunchtime!

didn't help that they were actually picketing the wrong terminal :E

[Human Factor]

Paddy,

If you'd like an example of BASSA/Unite spin, take a look at the photo of twenty BA jets parked up in Cardiff on page 4 of this thread.

Just to reiterate, BA is a PLC. They have legal obligations to shareholders. If they were lying, they would be breaking the law. Unfortunately, that is not the case for BASSA.

[BentleyH]

What complete and utter nonsense from BASSA.

They are quite clearly barking mad and have completely lost the plot.

Interesting that the tone has changed somewhat in their latest ramblings...talk of waiting for latest cost cutting numbers etc rather than 'brothers we're all staying out until we achieve the brilliant outcome we have in our sights???'

Willie doesn't need to talk to Unite at all in my view. Just keep growing the schedule every day and keeping any strikers at home.

There is absolutely no way there is ever going to be a negotiated settlement now because BASSA can't agree to a deal without staff travel being reinstated and Willie is NEVER going to do that. Its not just a disagreement now about the finances, it cuts much deeper than that, which is why this will run and run until individual crew have run out of energy and money. Quite what Willie will do with the striking crew is still unclear, but if I were them I'd be very very worried by now.

[bacabincrew]

And the BASSA/Unite picket at Gatwick gave up very early today - before lunchtime! Hardly surprising as most Gatwick BA cabin crew know that BASSA don't give a tinkers cuss for them.

For your information the Gatwick Cabin Crew picket was planned to be there until circa 11:00 am and was then bussed up to Bedfont to join the 100's of other Cabin Crew members.

Please dont waste your time by posting rubbish

[nurjio]

'paddy'

..I think you'll find it's a 'dictatorship' your after, not communism.

..anyhow, what is intriguing is not a single whinging passenger has been aired to any great extent. Why? Because BASSA has allowed BA to plan this straregy for an awful long time. The real money-spinners have been targetted and are still finding their flights operating, and by willing crew.

UNITES joint Gen Secs are now pleading on national, prime time for Mr Walsh to re-table. Oh, how so much of BASSA's incompetence has been lost in the noise. Remember Len, at the big meeting, 'you have given us a mandate for non-negotiation members'. :bored:

To striking crew, and there are loads reading this thread - I really don't think that you have thought much of this through. XXXX on your roster is, I would suggest, not a badge of honour, but a means by which BA management have you at their mercy - BA will choose the time and place of your return, to your distinct disadvantage. This has gotten very ugly, but you were warned on countless occasions, prior to last Saturday. Pandoras' Box lid has been jemmied off.

nurj

I'm a pilot BTW - obvious innit. Good luck. I'll give this post 15 minutes - so take a screen shot :E

[Nutjob]

It is a fact that a lot of striking crew, as well having their rosters wiped with XXXX's have also been asked to attend Cranebank tomorrow, not in uniform to "sign a contract". :eek:

As yet, no-one knows what said contract details and whether it's a whole new contract of employment or simply a no-strike agreement. I'm sure details will emerge either later today, or more likely after midday tomorrow (as first interviews I know of start at 11am). Watch this space. :\

[Right Engine]

BentleyH wrote,There is absolutely no way there is ever going to be a negotiated settlement now because BASSA can't agree to a deal without staff travel being reinstated and Willie is NEVER going to do that. Its not just a disagreement now about the finances. It cuts much deeper than that. Which is why this will run and run until individual crew have run out of energy and money. Quite what Willie will do with the striking crew is still unclear, but if I were them I'd be very very worried by now.

I would hope for the companies sake, that BA show mercy for crew who return contritely to their roles. Forgiveness is a virtue much needed in the aftermath of this sorry era of our company.

[SR71]

FWIW, I'm flightcrew and I'll post a picture of the ramp at CWL every day for the next month to demonstrate the **** UNITE is spinning!

:E

[TightSlot]

Please try and use language that keeps the overall temperature down, no matter how passionately you may feel.

If we find that people are throwing petrol on a smouldering bonfire, Mods will take appropriate action.

[Human Factor]

As a colleague of mine wrote on another forum:

"Never interrupt your enemy while he's making a mistake."

[dave747436]

Nutjob said...
It is a fact that a lot of striking crew, as well having their rosters wiped with XXXX's have also been asked to attend Cranebank tomorrow, not in uniform to "sign a contract".

My understanding is that a company cannot discriminate against employees engaged in a legal strike... (except for non-contractual items)

Can you reveal your source?

[swalesboy]

Fab picture Mariner 9/Human Factor. As I said the other day NLB and NLC parked up. IVF having the first 747 prime mod.

Back to the the thead. I am totally appauled by Unites behaviour and lies (as well as them not berating BASSA for suggesting that we engineers give them back 'I'll maintained aircraft'). My concern now is that I don't see an end to it.

I see both sides digging their heels in and If they do get to a stage where an offer would be acceptable to be balloted, staff travel would be thrown into the mix by the Comical Mcluskey and we would be back to square one.

Any thoughts on how this is going to pan out?

[JustAnother777Driver]

dave747436 said: My understanding is that a company cannot discriminate against employees engaged in a legal strike... (except for non-contractual items)

They are not on strike tomorrow.

[birdspeed]

Am I the only one to feel distinctly uncomfortable at seeing the behaviour of the BASSA contingent at Bedfont on TV?

Masks of WW with 'Devil horns' hastily scribbled on, a washing line with underpants & the slogan "Willie is pants", derogatory banners and chanting, etc. All very undignified. What must our pax make of it all?

This does nothing for the dignity of the profession or the uniform.

It demonstrates the calibre of mentality of those concerned, but I feel hugely embarrassed that these people should represent BA- in any guise.

[nurjio]

..buttons (nuclear), spring to mind. No wonder BA have been keeping their powder dry. A very neat wat of offering militancy a way out - with dignity.

IMHO

nurj :}

[Nutjob]

Dave747436

Can you reveal your source?

My source is the BASSA Forum where tens of crew are admitting that they have been told they must have this mystery interview (as described) and have said that the BA Employee (crewing / scheduler?) who told them about it said it was about "signing a contract" before they came back to work.

That is all the details I have at the moment but it is not an isolated incident and a good few crew are reporting the same. Reporting sketchy as even they don't seem to know what it's about.

I guess the next 24 hours will see things become clear

[ranger07]

'I would hope for the companies sake, that BA show mercy for crew who return contritely to their roles. Forgiveness is a virtue much needed in the aftermath of this sorry era of our company'

I agree with you again Right Engine, though if their behaviour is anything like that portrayed at the Bedfont Football Club and the picket lines, I'd assume contrition is something not in their volcabulary.

I hope I'm wrong...who knows? :rolleyes:

[hunterboy]

Sky News is reporting the costs to BA have been 7 million a day x 3 days. I assume that any new deal WW presents to Unite/Bassa will be 21 million quid worse off now.
Unless Unite backs down, I can't really see how next weeks strikes are going to be avoided.
If next weeks strikes go ahead, I can't see the strikers coming back to work for BA again either. It seems to have turned very personal.
A real shame for the many good people that have been caught up in all this.

[BentleyH]

I hear the programme for the next strike dates is nearly finalised.
It includes an almost complete schedule at Gatwick and a substantially increased programme at Heathrow. I think they will be able to quote flying over 80% of passengers next weekend.

All from a very reliable senior source in Waterside.

Woodley will be looking even more desperate than he already does when those factual numbers get released. I suspect he might start to take more of a back seat and let Looney Len take the flack!

[ArthurScargill]

I suspect it will be some non-strike agreement for next weekend or something similar. I doubt they'll go fully nuclear tomorrow. Maybe, one last chance and if you still stay away...........who knows :(

For those talking about staff Travel. Lets see if any strikers can still access (and successfully book a ticket on) ST on Friday.

[Jadzia]

It is a fact that a lot of striking crew, as well having their rosters wiped with XXXX's have also been asked to attend Cranebank tomorrow, not in uniform to "sign a contract".

Sounds like a rumor to me, I've seen a couple of shorthaul rosters and the crew are coming straight back to work.

[ArthurScargill]

I'd have thought BA will need them back at work otherwise how do they geta full schedule away ??

[Caribbean Boy]

BA has released this statement today at 1830.

Contingency plans for the three days of industrial disruption have been very successful.

Over the first two days, the airline operated 273 or 78 per cent of its longhaul flights and 442 or 50 per cent of its shorthaul flights. Seat factors were good at 68 per cent in longhaul and 69 per cent in shorthaul. Club World seat factor was just under 60 per cent. In addition the airline operated 70 positioning flights, which in most cases carried cargo, to return passengers home with minimum disruption.

We started the weekend with 82,573 bookings for the two days after our reservation teams had worked with our customers to reduce bookings (including accommodating some passengers for travel in the days leading up to the weekend) to reflect the smaller flying programme. In fact, over the two days we carried 86,262 passengers, due to late additional bookings.

This strong operational performance made possible by dedicated BA staff has significantly reduced the financial impact of the disruption. Current best estimate is that the 3-day industrial action will cost £7 million a day. Assessment of the cost of potential future industrial action can only be made after the event. As a result full year earnings expectations to March 31, 2010 remains broadly unchanged.

[Hot Wings]

The behaviour of the BASSA fundamentalists at Bedfont is shocking. Obviously not a care in the world for our customers who have had their travel plans disrupted. You are carrying on like you've had too many alcopops in the local park! How do you expect to be taken seriously? I too will not tolerate any bullying of the loyal (and sober) crew that have had the intelligence not to strike. Being off-loaded will only add to your problems!

Good luck to all at the PCCC - you have earned the respect of the BA flight crew community through your bravery.

[VS2BA]

I have been on strike and have been rostered a trip tomorrow with no mention of any meeting beforehand.

[BikerMark]

I was reading the Guardian web pages today and found that they are directly quoting from here:
BA strike final day - how it happened | News | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2010/mar/22/british-airways-strike-unions)

Might be worth bearing in mind when writing posts.

However, many staff like me are finding this interesting reading and giving an extra insight to the dispute. For this, I thank the contributors.

Mark.

[Juan Tugoh]

I believe that those who have been on strike may well have had their ID cards "parked". This as a precaution to stop strikers infiltrating CRC etc and taking names. It is probable that this mystery meeting is merely the process of "unparking" their ID cards and allowing them to return to work on the promise of no strike at the weekend. No promise = no return to work.

[earleyboy]

Arthur,would have thought aircraft will continue to fly with with minimum legal crew levels than were originally asked ( ironic) as some flights have done apparently, according to earlier posts.

[TwoOneFour]

On the GMTV poll this morning public support for Cabin Crew seems strong



Meaningless. It's easy to sympathise with cabin crew for a poll that doesn't cost the public a penny.

Does anyone believe that sympathy will extend to paying an extra £100 on their summer holiday air fare rather than go with EasyJet?

Not a chance.

[77]

From The Sun

Nice to see a bit of sensational journalism

British Heirways


PRINCE William jetted home from skiing yesterday using strike-hit British Airways - enraging union firebrands hell-bent on grounding him.
Wills, 27, joined tens of thousands who defiantly boarded jets - some of the flights using specially- chartered planes.

The Prince and 200 passengers flew home from Switzerland on an aircraft supplied by Jet2 - complete with cabin crew to replace those on strike.



First class ... BA-chartered Jet2 plane
He enjoyed a fuss-free three-hour flight to Heathrow's Terminal 5 as the weekend plot to bring BA grinding to a halt spectacularly flopped.

The relieved airline saw virtually ALL its staff report for duty at Gatwick - and more than half turn up at Heathrow.

BA chiefs were even able to add flights to the pared-down service they expected to run.

The Unite union was left desperate for a propaganda coup to bolster its three-day walkout by cabin crew, which started on Saturday and continues today. Its biggest hope was to strand Wills in Geneva after his ski holiday with girlfriend Kate Middleton, 28.

A source said of the Prince's flight: "It's a major kick in the teeth for the unions.

"They would have loved to have embarrassed BA by leaving William struggling."



Dispute ... Heathrow pickets
Humiliated Unite, which called the strikes because loss-making BA needs to cut costs, insisted 80 per cent of its 12,000 members joined walkouts which affected an estimated 60,000 passengers.

Union supremo Tony Woodley saluted the "magnificent" support. But today BA expects to run up to three quarters of scheduled flights. Mr Woodley urged BA's board to go behind the back of chief Willie Walsh to negotiate with strikers. A fresh walkout next Saturday is due to last four days.

Unite has poured £11million into Labour's coffers in the past three years - and ministers have refused to back those crossing picket lines.

Last night a BA insider said of the showdown with militants: "The union can bleat all it wants - we're winning."

Prince William flies in on strike-buster BA jet | The Sun |News (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2901267/Prince-William-flies-in-on-strike-buster-BA-jet.html)

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Nutjob quote "As yet, no-one knows what said contract details and whether it's a whole new contract of employment or simply a no-strike agreement. I'm sure details will emerge either later today, or more likely after midday tomorrow (as first interviews I know of start at 11am). Watch this space".

Mrs went on CC strike in 199? at BHX. (albeit for good reasons perhaps compared to the current dispute) Told by BA CC Manager to sign no strike agreement. Nore sure if she did but afterwards she got a letter of apology from BA as they had f***ed up. :\

[13 please]

This is to 'Abbey Road' from page 1...
I thought I'd quoted.........:uhoh:


How do you come to your conclusion about how senior the crew were on the different trips???

And why more senior=more militant??

I've done 20 years and I'm not striking, nor are friends who have done a similar amount of time..

:=

[jetset lady]

The sad thing is, no matter how this ends, the BASSA hardliners still won't accept that the Union is in any way at fault. Instead, they will blame those of us that did turn up for work for any consequences they and we may now suffer, accusing us of being cowards, spineless or "looking to buy a backbone from DF".

It won't occur to them to wonder why so many crew turned their backs on the Union this time. Maybe if, for once, they did look inwards rather than always looking outwards, we'd be halfway to having a decent union to take us forward and look after the interests of ALL of us.

[HiFlyer14]

It's certainly no rumour. Text just sent round by BASSA:

"If U ring BA 4 work B4 next planned trip BA will ask U 2 come in 4 1 hr 2 sign no strike pledge. This is illegal. Plse refuse. We will take lgl advice."

Did they not think to take legal advice on this matter, that has been discussed on this thread for months, before tonight? Unbelievable.

[Jadzia]

It's certainly no rumour. Text just sent round by BASSA:According to this forum, Bassa did sent some texts out claiming that almost no one did turn up to work. Or that planes are departing with no luggage loaded. That and more turned out to be incorrect. Therefore I believe that this is just another fabricationby Bassa to stop crew from coming to work.

Also, I'm working in Europe House and have not heared anything about a no-strike-pledge being drafted. And I have many eyes and ears :8

[SlideBustle]

Oh dear, many people did say on here not long ago that BASSAs legal questions and answers sheet was very vague and not very thought out well! If this is true about the people being asked to go to sign this piece of paper, BASSA have ALOT to answer for. There are many innocent people who thought they best strike as they either believed the BASSA spin or just were to frightened to cross a picket. And if these get caught in trouble it is largely BASSAs fault.

And it is true jetset lady, the union won't take any responsibility if this strike means we have to pay the money we lost. They will say it is Willie's fault, us who came into work, or I wouldn't put it past them to blame the customers, or the news! But whoever they blame, they will not accept responsibility for leading us in this mess!

[License to Fly]

Does this strike show that Willie could reduce more crew off the long haul planes and still get the service done ?!

Show's what can be done with a 'can do' attitude

[L337]

British Airways has today commented on the financial impact of the industrial action and stated that the company’s profit outlook is unchanged.

PROFIT OUTLOOK UNCHANGED

Contingency plans for the three days of industrial disruption have been very successful.

Over the first two days, the airline operated 273 or 78 per cent of its longhaul flights and 442 or 50 per cent of its shorthaul flights.

Seat factors were good at 68 per cent in longhaul and 69 per cent in shorthaul. Club World seat factor was just under 60 per cent.

In addition the airline operated 70 “positioning” flights, which in most cases carried cargo, to return passengers home with minimum disruption.

Pleased with the number of customers carried

We started the weekend with 82,573 bookings for the two days after our reservation teams had worked with our customers to reduce bookings (including accommodating some passengers for travel in the days leading up to the weekend) to reflect the smaller flying programme.

In fact, over the two days we carried 86,262 passengers, due to late additional bookings.

Financial impact

This strong operational performance made possible by dedicated BA staff has significantly reduced the financial impact of the disruption. Current best estimate is that the 3-day industrial action will cost £7 million a day. Assessment of the cost of potential future industrial action can only be made after the event. As a result full year earnings expectations to March 31, 2010 remains broadly unchanged.

[TopBunk]

For your information the Gatwick Cabin Crew picket was planned to be there until circa 11:00 am and was then bussed up to Bedfont to join the 100's of other Cabin Crew members.

Do you not think that this MAY be due to the 98% cabin crew report factor for LGW services and BASSA realising that picketting at LGW is pointless - they would be preaching to the converted?

Bury your head in the sand if you wish, but please be open to other possibilities and the spin of the union.

I ask you one question: why is it that the party asking to re-open negotiation is Unite and not BA if everything is going Unite's way?

PS - I don't expect a coherent answer.

[Abbey Road]

Juan Tugoh,

No promise = no return to work.= No pay for the entire time they are not at work! They forget that at their peril.


13 please,

How do you come to your conclusion about how senior the crew were on the different trips???Relax! Read carefully what I wrote:
.... more senior cabin crew, who are more likely to be staunch BASSA supporters ....Not all of senior cabin crew are like that, I grant you, but there most certainly are a senior cadre that play the system, garnering lucrative trips for themselves. It does happen.


License to Fly,
Does this strike show that Willie could reduce more crew off the long haul planes and still get the service done ?!The flights during the strike have not been running a full service - e.g. hot meals replaced by simplified 'cold' catering. Not something that BA would want to continue long-term, but is has made the service manageable such that passengers can get to their destinations. That is what the entire schedule should be about - doing the best for the passengers! "Fly To Serve!"

[Get Smart]

It seems from the BASSA and CF that some crew have been rostered flights for tomorrow and some have been rostered to report to Cranebank for an hour. I wonder why that is? We knew last week from an ESS that a Cranebank duty 'could' be rostered in which case, go in civies but that has only materialised on the roster as of tomorrow. Why would some striking crew have CB and others a flight? :confused:

Also, bizzarely they have also been whipped into a frenzy as they believe the those who did report to work have walked into a trap (i.e. by reporting to work, we have accepted the imposition of a few fleet and agree to the T&C's) and are going to be the first ones on the new fleet whilst they - strikers will escape untouched and return to their normal walking conditions. Um? I don't think so.

[SlideBustle]

On BASSA forum there are lots of strikers who have xxxxx on their rosters for next few days, most shorthaul crew apparently have the same trips as published but some have had non ops. What is so unbelievable is everyone is getting in a tizz over do they check their roster, ring in. I have heard crew saying if they ring in they will have to go to Cranebank to sign that no strike clause, don't go in for that signing, some are saying that will be unofficial actions. Some are saying don't ring until the morning, some are saying don't ring until midnight (although people do need to go to bed!) Some are saying don't come in until next trip but you can ring if you want to come in before your next trip.

What I find hilarious about this is why hasn't UNITE provided clear advice for striking crew?? I know they said not to go to CBK to sign that paper but what about crew who haven't been told to go to CBK?

I think there will be lots of disruption over the next few days...

[Human Factor]

I think there will be lots of disruption over the next few days...

BA is not planning a full schedule for the rest of the week.

[Rushed Approach]

What is the "legal" point of getting crew to sign a no strike agreement?

Surely it is meaningless as striking crew are in breach of contract anyway. If they sign it, but then strike anyway, aren't they simply in breach of the new contract, and hence nothing has changed? It would be a breach of the BASSA/BA recognition agreement since it would be a contract not negotiated with BASSA, so then the question arises can a BASSA member sign a contract not negotiated with their union without the union being, er, in dispute with BA!

The only real point I can see is it gives BA the opportunity to more accurately target who they roster for the second strike. They already know who broke the strike the first time and thus who will very likely do so again. Those who sign a NSA will be more likely to come in on the second strike days I guess.

Of course it is quite intimidating for a junior to be "interviewed" by a manager - it may just be a tactic to target those who were wavering anyway.

Perhaps with the return of staff travel as a carrot (or showing them being deleted from the system if not)?

[13 please]

Does this strike show that Willie could reduce more crew off the long haul planes and still get the service done ?!

Show's what can be done with a 'can do' attitude

Hi there, I believe there is no 'full service' on board at the moment... Which is why they can manage with less.

With 8 cabin crew on a 777, that's 1 crew member per door. The CW service would be seriously dragged out with that number of crew!:)

[ottergirl]

And I don't think the FIRST customers will put up with a sandwich for very long!

[BAcrewboy]

Good evening ladies and gents - I know that there were a few of you in the CRC today, but, for those of you that were not, here is my take on things.

I arrived in the CRC at about 1230. I was nervous on the drive in and was very uncomfortable as I drove past the picket near the police station. I was nervous at being spotted, and also upset that a few of my friends had been so misguided by BASSA and were now stood there risking everything for no real reason.

Anyway, I arrived at the crew car-park and got onto the blacked out bus. The bus was almost full - hardly any seat free. There were volunteers on there but many many normal crew. I got into the CRC and was amazed at what I saw. There were masses of crew there on standby - I saw so many of my friends and it was so nice to see some smiling faces. I ca't imagine who is striking because there were so many people there.

I witnessed an impromptu question and answer session from Willi and Billi and was impressed at what they had to say. They GUARANTEED the audience that those who had gone on strike would never get their staff travel back and that it would not be up for negotiation with the union. They reassured me that what is to come will not be the end of my flying career as I know it - now I have not been in the company for long and hope that the union will not be proved right with their constant warning that the company cannot be trusted.

They confirmed that rosters had been wiped for striking crew and that they will not be working until they are needed.

[7Heroes]

A bassa rep earns 50,000 a year(allegdley) and has done 20 hours flying in the last year.This is what is wrong with BA.I am sure he is not the only one.I am glad the papers have got hold of this and hope they find out who else is milking BA for all they can.This is something WW must stamp out and get rid of.The rest of us are on half that and doing 800 -900 hours a year.

[BAcrewboy]

oh, one more thing - the only thing that concerned me is that I don't think that Willi and Billi fully understood the importance of good allowances for those of us on the new contract - they reassured us about the travel payment but didn't really convince me that I won't be losing a massive whack of money in allowances.

[SlideBustle]

Hey BAcrewboy - welcome back! :ok:

Having worked today aswell on airport standby, I can only pretty much say what BAcrewboy has said - there were loads of crew, WW and BF were there, and it is extremely clear BASSA are lying when they are saying only 26 crew are turning up! It was quite a good atmosphere in CRC actually, we were all in the same boat at the end of the day!

And I don't think the FIRST customers will put up with a sandwich for very long!

That was my thoughts too Ottergirl! You could realistically crew a 747 with 12 crew but the services would have to be reduced and the passengers wouldn't be too happy! Having said this, on shorthaul the crew complement changes are going OK on most routes. Longhaul particularly the 747 may be different, because of 4 cabins and the sheer number of pax but as I am not LH I don't know.

[Runway vacated]

Of course it is quite intimidating for a junior to be "interviewed" by a manager - it may just be a tactic to target those who were wavering anyway.


The naivety of those striking is once again quite staggering! Did they REALLY think they could spend a long weekend bad mouthing BA and then just waltz back in to work as if nothing had happened? There is no need for anyone to agree to anything, and a No Strike contract is certainly not on the cards, no matter how much BASSA might wish there was

BA will make them jump through several hoops before allowing them anywhere near a fare paying passenger, and for those strikers not rostered to work between strikes, this will be an expensive month. Their pay will be stopped from the day they fail to report for duty until their next "available rostered duty".

All those who have unopened emails from Bill Francis in their inbox on ESS, I suggest you open them sharpish. Then you will know exactly what is going to happen to you.

And kwateow, for someone who;s first language isn't english, you have summed it up!

The British Airways has a plan and lots of money. cabin crew seem to have not much plan and little money (house mortgage to pay....)

The outcome seems one sided, inevitable.

[Tiramisu]

And I don't think the FIRST customers will put up with a sandwich for very long!


Ottergirl,
In the scheme of things, I don't think they will mind too much.
Don't forget they may have also had some pre-flight dining in our excellent lounges. I'm also sure they would have been some sort of recovery service for our First customers.
I'm also certain BA is one step ahead of the game where this is concerned judging by the way how efficiently everything has been organised.

Incidentally, do you have an account of your experience of the last three days please? I was in on day 1 and 2 of the strike.

PS: BAcrewboy and Slidebustle, thank you for your update of day 3.:)

[Meal Chucker]

Their pay will be stopped from the day they fail to report for duty until their next "available rostered duty".


Surely this can't be true!

Bassa has assured us that pay is only docked for the three actual strike days and not for any remaining days of missed trips and the MBT's the trip should have generated!

[SlideBustle]

Meal Chucker,

This is what was stated in one of the ESS messages by Bill Francis. So, it probably is true. (BASSA didn't make it very clear so obviously alot of crew will be hacked off now, I know they should have read the message on ESS but hindsight is a wonderful thing!) Obviously the company may decide to pay basic outside the strike this week including on days off, but Bill did say otherwise. Doesn't mean they might still pay you regardless but who knows! So many rumours with regards to pay, rosters etc!

[bacabincrew]

They confirmed that rosters had been wiped for striking crew and that they will not be working until they are needed.

All striking Eurofleet crew are rostered duties as from tomorrow - no rosters are wiped - Longhaul are all XXX'd until their next rostered duty no rosters wiped.

Quote from Mr Francis for action to take following strike

If you simply plan to operate your next rostered duty then you should report as normal in line with your roster. When the strike is over, you will be expected to come to work as usual otherwise this will be classified as taking unlawful industrial action.

BA have also confirmed they are NOT forcing crew to sign any documentation, apparently somebody started a rumour with a false posting

[SlideBustle]

Bacabincrew - if this is true that's good then! As otherwise this stupid situation we are in would get stupid and BASSA would probably strike over that! Striking over making crew go to Cranebank!

Rumours have been in overdrive all day on the forums - it was true earlier though that crew had rosters wiped with XXXX until Friday - or so many crew were saying on BASSA. Maybe not shorthaul then.

[bacabincrew]

100% fact - no 'spin'

The confusion arose because some crew called scheduling when they saw XXXX after the strike had finished and scheduling asked if they would be willing to work during the XXXX period - they said yes and the procedure for that is as follows

If you have already taken industrial action but then subsequently wish to report back to work before your next rostered duty you will be required to attend a meeting with a member of the absence team at LHR or a DOM at LGW. In this instance you should contact Operational Support Team who will advise you of the next available appointment.

[SlideBustle]

Don't worry not doubting you BAcabincrew!

[Rushed Approach]

Airclues, surely the part of the Act you quote is to do with dismissals. Those who have been on strike and who are now due to return to work on a non-strike day tomorrow have obviously not yet been dismissed, nor could they be without giving them notice of dismissal as per their contracts and with good reason (which can't be just because they went on strike).

They could however be summarily dismissed (i.e. without notice) if they had engaged in gross misconduct, such as bullying or harassment of other staff.

Interestingly, "Bringing the Company into disrepute" is also on our company list of gross misconduct offences which staff might want to consider before they appear on TV insulting or infering things about the CEO or other staff member. Mr Walsh has the same right not to be defamed as any other staff member! :eek:

[TightSlot]

Thank you all for a good day posting on this thread. The only Mod intervention required has been deletions for a small number of contributors who are not presently active as crew. I hope, in particular that retired staff will understand why we need to restrict this thread to currently employed crew.

For those of you interested in the reaction of your customers to the weeks events, please don't forget the thread running HERE (http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/409355-ba-strike-your-thoughts-questions.html) in the Pax/SLF forum. It's probably useful for you to drop by and understand at least some of the concerns and views that you may hear expressed when next working in the metal tube.

[Right Engine]

From Bill Francis a week or so ago.

If you take strike action, are re-rostered your next duty during the second strike period and strike again, this may mean that you are not paid from the first day that you strike until we are able to roster you to work after the second strike.

If I change my mind during the strike and want to come into work, what should I do?
If you do not turn up for your rostered duty on a strike day, you will be recorded as having taken industrial action, even if you subsequently change your mind and wish to come in during part of the strike. You will be required to attend a meeting with a member of the IFCE team at LHR or a DOM at LGW before being allocated your next rostered duty. In this instance you should contact the Operational Support Team who will advise you of the next available appointment and the process to follow.

100% FACT = If Crew spent just a moment reading their ESS Mail they wouldn't be in this situation.

[bacabincrew]

I suppose just to re-affirm some things

1 The strike did indeed last for 3 days
2 The first 200 crew who went on strike where in fact not dismissed
3 The strike did not collapse after 2 hours
4 The company has not 'locked out' any strikers
5 All crew are to work to their planned rosters following the strike
6 No crew have to sign a 'no strike' pledge
7 Staff travel has not yet been taken away from strikers

[bacabincrew]

I am missing the point of your posting - best you read my posting carefully.

The quote you are making is for Crew who have taken Industrial Action but change their mind DURING the strike period.

IE They go on strike for a day then change their mind on day two :rolleyes:

[bacabincrew]

100% FACT = If Crew spent just a moment reading their ESS Mail they wouldn't be in this situation.

As far as I am aware there is no contractual requirement to read it is there?

[Right Engine]

I think you need to do a bit of re-reading.

[bacabincrew]

What are you on about? This pettiness is really quite childish - oh I forgot best I "shut up and dont say a thing" because your a SKIPPER wooooooo, that was your quote from earlier wasnt it? :rolleyes:

You can't bully me - this is a public forum

[saveconcorde]

Let me know if staff travel is there in a few weeks.... I look forward to seeing the result.

[bacabincrew]

Let me know if staff travel is there in a few weeks.... I look forward to seeing the result.

Staff Travel? I haven't used it for over 5 years as it's too much hassle

[saveconcorde]

I didn't ask you if you had used it, I would just like to know if it gets removed. make sure WW keeps his promises.

[Right Engine]

What are you on about? This pettiness is really quite childish - oh I forgot best I "shut up and dont say a thing" because your a SKIPPER wooooooo, that was your quote from earlier wasnt it?

You can't bully me - this is a public forum

I am not bullying you - I am disagreeing with you.

When you read what Mr Francis wrote it confirms what people are saying. Go on strike and you will require a return to work interview. That interview will be arranged at the behest of the company. You are reading it differently to me and I am disagreeing with you. Your use of the words "100% FACT" provokes people showing you up.

Being called childish and then using the phrase "You're a skipper - wooooooo" made me chuckle!

[bacabincrew]

I meant it in a light hearted way -

And might I suggest that you go back and re-read the document fully - you will then find your error (I have highlighted the parts below which are causing you confusion)

If I change my mind during the strike and want to come into work, what should I do?

If you do not turn up for your rostered duty on a strike day, you will be recorded as having taken industrial action, even if you subsequently change your mind and wish to come in during part of the strike. You will be required to attend a meeting with a member of the IFCE team at LHR or a DOM at LGW before being allocated your next rostered duty. In this instance you should contact the Operational Support Team who will advise you of the next available appointment and the process to follow.

When do I report back to work

You are expected to work in line with your roster throughout this period. If you have already taken industrial action but then subsequently wish to report back to work before your next rostered duty you will be required to attend a meeting with a member of the absence team at LHR or a DOM at LGW. In this instance you should contact Operational Support Team who will advise you of the next available appointment.

If you simply plan to operate your next rostered duty then you should report as normal in line with your roster. When the strike is over, you will be expected to come to work as usual otherwise this will be classified as taking unlawful industrial action.

[Right Engine]

I think you are interpreting it wrongly. Your bold would seem to me to be addressing those who either a) Turned up during the strike period or b) Did not have a duty doing the strike period. We shall agree to differ.

[OverFlare]

There is not necessarily anything inconsistent with saying that striking cabin crew should report for their next rostered duty (presumably on a print out that you have pinned on your wall, or stuffed in your hat - oh no that doesn't work - well somewhere) but that rosters have been wiped in the BA system.

I guess what I'm getting at is just because someone is asked to report as normal it doesn't mean they will actually get to do any work, or even get through the door of the CRC.

I imagine the situation, in general, is quite fluid. It might be they are not needed (with minimum crew operations); or maybe they will be. Either way, WW is in control, not the individual crew member and not BASSA/UNITE.

[screwdriver]

I went into CBK today and was suprised to see thousands of pickets positioned at the gate...Oh... hang on... I don't belong to BASSA!
BASSA are being a little economical with the truth and I, for one, am glad that BA are now pointing this out to the media. I’m also coming to the conclusion that Unite have got themselves into a pickle because of the stupidity/militancy of their BASSA branch. It really is time for Unite to sacrifice the BASSA reps for the greater good.
If UNITE have been relying on the info that BASSA have been passing to them then they really are screwed. As an operational engineer I found the following illuminating.
Here’s an extract from the latest example of Unite’s view of yesterday.
Early reports suggest a strike-breaking volunteer crew has broken an exit. They are said to have "blown a slide" i.e. broken the function needed when the doors go from automatic to manual on landing. This means that the emergency services need to attend to make the plane fit to fly;

A blown slide is not “a broken exit”
They have not broken the “function needed when the doors go from automatic to manual”
The emergency services have nothing to do with the airplanes fitness to fly.
Plenty of slides are blown when BA’s a/c are not crewed by volunteers.

To all my colleagues who have ‘stepped up’ to keep the airline running ‘Good luck and God bless you all’

PS To Unite- there is only one “e” at the end of the word Entebbe
but there are 2 "b"s.

[Get Smart]

I think Right Engine is Right!! :ok:

[HiFlyer14]

Bacabincrew/Bashareholder ;)

I suppose just to re-affirm some things

1 The strike did indeed last for 3 days
2 The first 200 crew who went on strike where in fact not dismissed
3 The strike did not collapse after 2 hours
4 The company has not 'locked out' any strikers
5 All crew are to work to their planned rosters following the strike
6 No crew have to sign a 'no strike' pledge
7 Staff travel has not yet been taken away from strikers


Well possibly, but 4-7 won't be fully known until they turn up for work in a few hours time.;)

In the meantime, What has been achieved through the strike? Let's reaffirm shall we:

1. Widespread public condemnation
2. Cabin crew bringing shame on our community with WW faces etc.
3. Loss of revenue
4. BA still not negotiating
5. Strikers losing pay and staff travel (it will happen)
6. A now divided workforce - strikers and non-strikers
7. Unite still no further forward than they were a week/month/year ago.

Unless you can think of anything else it has achieved BAcabincrew?

[Tiramisu]

Unless you can think of anything else it has achieved BAcabincrew?


You forgot to mention some very unhappy 'Yummy Mummies!';)

[13 please]

I think Right Engine is Right!! :ok:

I think 'bacabincrew' is right, I can't read it any other way!

If you went on strike for a day or two, then decided to come in on day 3, you would have a 'chat'.

If you were on strike for the 3 days, you would come in for your next trip, no chat.

Although I can't imagine why some need a chat and some don't....

Edited to add.... also, say if you were starting 3 day USA with 3 days off on day 1 of the strike, but you were on strike for the 3 days, and were willing to come in on what was your 1st day off, then you would also have a 'chat'...

I think....................................................... .......:8

[SlideBustle]

You forgot to mention some very unhappy 'Yummy Mummies!'http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif

:D Good one!

[raveng]

HF (post 71), many thanks for posting the photo of CWL, but for the life of me I couldn't see the 20 odd BA aircraft parked there!!! Funny that, :confused:, perhaps Unite/BASSA have been 'fibbing' - perish the thought:E.

Meal chucker post (84), great post.:ok:

Birdspeed (post 103), portraying WW as Hitler is just the latest dreadful comparison from the union (iwo jima). IMHO Unite are not just being led by the nose by BASSA, they realise there is no easy way of extracting themselves from this pile of pooh, no matter how big their wellies are.

Bacabincrew, it's good to have you on the forum, but seriously, BASSA/Unite leaving LGW with no picket from c.1100. I wonder why?
Do BASSA really give a hoot about their LGW colleagues, who according to Unite, strongly support this action!!!:E:hmm:

[midman]

My 747 flight (long range) was crewed normally, to full complement by non-striking cabin crew. No volunteers as obviously the vols haven't been trained on the 747, They provided the full service in every cabin with every seat sold. The flights here for all 3 strike days were similarly full provided with a full service from full cabin crew complement.

So a great day for Bassa?

The real shame that Bassa supporters should feel is from the intimidation that the non-strikers have felt. The cabin crew were very scared of the consequences from their reps and from union supporters of coming to work, expecting to be harangued and abused by them as they overlapped in the hotel and at the airport. That they could feel that way shows the direputable way that the union operates, working as it does on the emotional and intimidatory level. It also shows their courage in taking the decision to work despite such potential conflict.

But cabin crew should not have any concerns in this area - the down route destinations have provided huge resources to ensure that there is no overlap, using different transport, hotel entrances and uniform changing facilities at the airport etc. There should be no fear that you will encounter any adverse comment. It was also made clear that anyone who might encounter the slightest issue in respect of intimidation, would have the immediate support and and positive action of the captain, the station manager, and some very senior BA managers who are down route at major destinations.

Our crews here are enjoying a relaxed time, able to chat with like-minded colleagues, commenting that the absence of the rhetoric and bile of the union militants is a refreshing change. (Perhaps a sign of things to come?)

As a consequence, having seen so many cabin crew report as normal for work, despite their obvious deep apprehension, I'm sure there must be thousands who went on strike purely because they fear the same retribution my crew felt. Those cabin crew who feel such concern should remove any doubt and report for work next weekend, as they will have a safe, enjoyable and conflict-free trip.

The true anti BA union supporters are very much in the minority - it is they who should be fearful of being on the wrong side of the argument, not the fair minded cabin crew who wish to work normally. Very soon we shall be seeing them exposed as the minority as they slowly wither on the periphery of the company, unable to take the loss in status that they perceive the strike will cause them.

The end is in sight, I believe.

[Strimmerdriver]

BAcrewboy

The monthly payment is in addition to allowances ie add them together.

[nurjio]

Interesting day ahead, as the mix of support/non-support meet at work for the 1st day post-action.

Please, would a pro-UNITE member of PPRuNE post a coherent argument/state-of the-nation missive as to how they see the situation from their POV?. This thread is far too skewed at the moment - pro BA. I am amazed to see that so much of BASSA's previous 'dodgy' (reckless, IMO) track record has been lost in the noise of the Woodley/Simpson/McCluskey roadshow.

BTW where is McCluskey? I'm still mindful of the sound bite from the 'ex docker', when he said at one of the BASSA racecourse meets...'I've been involved in a lot of strikes'. He might as well of added...'because I'm a cr@p negotiator'.

nurj

[Cough]

My flight yesterday - Shorthaul reinstated flight (went back on sale about 20 hours prior to the flight going). Had 4 regular cabin crew turn up in a very busy CRC (no VCCs rostered or required). A very pleasant day trip.

Two crew were Bassa members. A text came in and they seem to look at each other in a knowing manner, then agreed they had both done the right thing.

My hope for today is that everyone is professional and gets on with the job in hand, respecting each others right to a differing opinion.

Cough (driver, left hand side)

[TightSlot]

Good Morning

Just wanted to re-post the ROE for this thread at the start of a new day.

This thread is intended for use by people presently employed as airline staff.

If you do not fall into this category - please do not post here: Please visit the Pax/SLF Forum where there is an active thread running HERE (http://www.pprune.org/passengers-slf-self-loading-freight/409355-ba-strike-your-thoughts-questions.html) that welcomes your thoughts.

Many thanks - over to you

[nurjio]

Well, over an hour and a half, and no new postings.

Well here's one.

The BASSA diehards will never be persuaded that their cause might just be a teeny weeny bit flawed in many aspects. So, how does Willie Walsh handle their return to the fold? Do we think that this coming weekend's strike is going to be absolutely pivotal in singling out the militant/misguided? Then what? Lockout?

UNITE/BASSA are being comfortably marginalised as this goes on. How on earth can they recover ANY credibility after this. Only the daftest of hardliner will have failed to have noticed a 'fairly' amazing atmosphere of like-minded crew, amongst those operating last weekend. I only hope to whoever, that the positive attitudes will continue and prove to be virulently infectous.

nurj :}

[Nevermind]

From the behaviour I have witnessed at work this weekend, we have so many wonderful cabin crew who have been both brave in coming, and very conscientious with the passengers. As for the behaviour I have witnessed in the media, quite frankly we don't need them back. It's almost like mass hypnosis in the way they have been mislead by their union, and I cannot see that ingrained feeling of bitterness and injustice being resolved. Booing our aircraft? WTF is all that about? If they are not proud to work for BA (and they have given nothing but empty words in that area), then I cannot see them providing the customer service we need in the cabin.

[ranger07]

I agree, there seems to be much denial with the BASSA diehards. I do not think their behaviour at the Bedfont Football Club has done them any favours whatsoever. From my point of view, I totally back the Board especially after witnessing such disloyal and juvenille actions. This further emboldens my stance, especially as so many of us at BA have given so much due to the companies financial situation. Let's channel our feelings of anger and disgust into further backing the Airline and move forward with those who wish to be on board and make this iconic Airline the envy of all Airlines. And a heartfelt thanks to the Cabin Crew and volunteers who worked through this unjustifed dispute. You have done us proud:D

[nurjio]

Furthermore, if you get the chance, read today's SUN editorial, page 8. Succinct.

nurj

PS. I, too, applaud the BA Backers. :D. A magnificent response. Mr Walsh, I applaud you the most; but, I await your handling of the mislead - it could be your finest hour yet.

PPS. ..and the language being used on the intranet is pretty bullish. Oh, and the share price creeeeeeps..............upwards.

[anything]

Just wondering if there is any news on the Cranebank chats.

[ltn and beyond]

I totally support any crew that have seen through the last ditch atemps of Bassa/unite to protect the senior/ militant crew that believe BA is not in
difficulties and refuse to accept change.

I have taken a pay cut, many of my friends in other companies, airlines and other industries have also seen pay cuts and job losses, this is the most uncertain and difficult time i've seen in my 25 years of working. I have
still yet to find any unite member that can tell me exactly why their union has hit the distruct button, or indeed where they think a compromise/ aggrement can be made.

I was in T5 crc on sunday and I can confirm that the number of crew working was more in line with what BA had quoted rather than the nonsence Unite had quoted. Indeed this is exactly what a main crewmember told me yesterday when see got a Bassa text telling her less than 10 crew had reported to work, I fear that Unite has now told so many lies they now believe them, and no longer know or want to know what the truth is.:ugh:

To the handfull of crew I drove past on the picket line ( sunday ), who were waving and cheering I hope you will still be happy when you touchdown in the real world, you are putting everyones jobs on the line.

I noted on the TV during the strike a Unite rep(I wasnt interested in his name)
quoted "WE BALLOTED 12000 MEMBERS AND 90% ARE STRIKING",
yet in another report again from unite 200 MEMBER HAD GATHERED AT BEDFONT FC TO PICKET. Anyone with even the most basic maths ability can workout 200 out of alleged 10500+ strikers is not strong support...:ugh:

So again a big well done to BA and its supporters for the great work this week end, and do continue as long as its needed.:D::ok:

[nurjio]

OMG - O'Leary - 5 Live @ 1323 - absolutely amazing! Quotes 'Solidarity, anti-unionist rant, BA blackmailed by an out of control union. Cabin crew set to lose the most. Why did 3/4 of cc report to work? CC realise your position. It is imperative that BA win'.

I suppose he's publicity hunting but, nontheless, spot on IMHO.

The next bloke on is poor.


Wow.

nurj

[jetset lady]

Nurjio,

It's probably because, according to those knowledgeable folk in CF, he has a vested interest in the result of the strike. Ryanair are allegedly taking over BA LGW, don't you know! :hmm:

[Dave Bloke]

From a reliable source, staff travel is in the process of being withdrawn from strikers as we speak.

[OverFlare]

I guess even if someone who went on strike could book and even use a staff travel ticket it would simply be another matter to bring up at the disciplinary.

"We made it very clear you no longer had staff travel rights and you used it anyway. We'll consider that gross misconduct and here's a P45."

[Skinnydip]

I hope that the process of removing staff travel is starting. I reported for work over the weekend and suffered some heckling and verbal abuse in the carpark from a returning crew. I can only reiterate what many posters have been saying on this thread, that there was a significant amount of crew reporting which enabled volunteers to be stood down. There was also a notable senior managment presence which helped to boost morale and dispel some of the myths. Once again I will b reporting for duty over the next strike period and wouldve felt a bit let down if the strikers had retained their staff travel. Like many people I am anxious about returning to work amongst colleagues who have very different views to myself and just hope that both sides can leave the politics outside before entering the crc. Anybody any news on how things are shaping up today?? And how the atmosphere has been?

[Human Factor]

Just heard about the removal of staff travel myself, presumably from the same source as above. Not heard from the company yet though.

[HiFlyer14]

Skinnydip - sorry to hear about the heckling you endured at the carpark. You really do need to feed that back for next weekend - I also think that was the weakest link in the chain and have given some feedback about it. We shared a car park bus with some crew who were out of uniform and were giving us some funny looks. However, our flight crew were fantastic and walked us all to our cars. And I must say that all the pilots have been an absolute rock to us throughout this - thank you.

One of the PCCC members reported for duty this morning at CRC, and everything seemed pretty much normal. Still managers/helpers around etc. No word yet on whether the strikers are operating today - will let you know when I hear.

Well done for reporting to work though. The only way that we can beat this "thing" that now hangs over us like a death penalty is to stand up to it. Oh, and of course to join the Professional Cabin Crew Council at www.professionalcrewcouncil.com (http://www.professionalcrewcouncil.com).:)

[BentleyH]

You can hold your head up high. You have every right to report to work. It is amazing how low some people will sink. During the last strike one of my friends was spat at as she went in to report. These are the true bullies. There are many BA staff who are out here and support what you're doing. :ok:

[bacabincrew]

All crew who where on strike are reporting as per their rosters, there are no forms to be signed, no disclaimers and no managers waiting to interview them

[Hot Wings]

Rumour has it that the loss of staff travel letters have gone in the post today.

[Hotel Mode]

All crew who where on strike are reporting as per their rosters, there are no forms to be signed, no disclaimers and no managers waiting to interview them

It was BASSAs hysterical text last night that set that particular rumour off. They clearly havent got a clue about what BA are doing.

Theres plenty of crew with lots of xxxxs in their roster well into next week. By telling people not to turn up to cranebank all they have done is extend the period that those who dont go wont be paid..... Doh!

Sounds like BASSA might not be as in control of events as they say they are.

[fly12345]

Ba should do what they say they would do, take away staff travel asap and do not roster strikers unless absolutely vital to the operation.

[flybymerchant]

FLY WITH BOAC AS CABIN CREW!

Do you meet the requirements?
Check yourself against the following:
The age limits are 20-26 for Stewards, 20-25 for Stewardesses. You must be in excellent health and have good eyesight. For men, smartness, clear skin and a good bearing are necessary. (height 5'6” to 6'2”, weight 126-180 lbs).
Girls, who must be single, should have a neatly-proportioned figure with clear complexion and be of pleasing appearance, (height 5'3” to 5'9” weight 105-145 lbs). Hair should be as natural in colour as possible and extreme styles should be avoided. Add to this a pleasant personality, a good speaking voice, a responsible and enthusiastic approach to work and you are well on your way to becoming a Steward or Stewardess. You may think we are being extra particular. We have to be. Remember, you will be in the public eye most of the time.
Your educational standard should be to at least GCE 'O' level standard or equivalent and conversational ability in a West European language (other than those of the United Kingdom and Eire) is desirable.
You must be of British Nationality or eligible for a British passport. You will also be required to pass our medical examination.
Useful experience would have been in employment which involved dealimg with and looking after people.
Training
If you are chosen for training with BOAC you will take a 6-week course at Heathrow Airport (London) during which time you will be expected to pass progress examinations. On successful completion of the course your career really begins and you are posted to flying duties.
Salaries
A training salary is paid for the first 3 months, after which salary rises to £1200 per annum and thereafter by regular increments to £1850 per annum. In addition to the basic salary theer are generous overseas and other allowances, including an allowance of £1.50 for each day spent outside the United Kingdom on service.
Promotion
(Illegible – coffee stain!)
Length of service
Stewardesses may remain in employment for a maximum period of service of 10 years. If you leave after 5 years service a gratuity of £350 is paid, which increases to £875 on completion of 10 years.
Stewards can be employed until the normal retiring age of 55 years.:)

How else can BA save the £200 MILLION that they need to save from the Cabin Crew before JUNE 2011?!?!?
(£140million previously required savings, £40million for 2 short strikes, £19million for damage to reputation (generous) and £1million for the training and implementation of the Volunteer Cabin Crew Program, as promised)

Joking aside, I think a contract of this simplicity (especially with regards to allowances) is very much on the cards for New Fleet entrants, which is the only way that strikers will be allowed back...I would hope that the pay will be higher, and I implore them not to DISCRIMINATE so heinously against all our old fat hosties

[The Blu Riband]

It is right that those crew who were on strike this weekend be given a 2nd chance.

It is unfortunate that only (i'm guessing) 1500 cabin crew actually felt compelled to go on strike. It is too easy for arriving crews who haven't had to make that decision - and for any crew on days off , leave or pt for example - to criticise when they have not YET had to decide themselves whether to walk or not.

BUT surely any crew who strike next weekend will be dealt with more harshly as they have had the benefit of seeing the measures BA have in place to safeguard their security, and will also have heard of the tremendous turn out of crew reporting for duty.
They have also had the benefit of seeing the lies and poor behaviour by Unite and Bassa.


Can there ever be a settlement?? Possibly not.

BA has clearly stated from day 1 that staff travel will be permanently withdrawn, and that the suspensions will be properly investigated and not part of the negotiations.
Bassa are insisting that there can be no settlement without their inclusion.
I wonder why?

[Doors To Manuel]

FlybyMerchant, thanks for that much needed moment of levity!

At risk of going off-thread and incurring the wrath of the Mods, it has reminded me of another earth shattering light hearted observation, thus:

Did you know that 'stewardesses' is the longest word in the English language that can be properly touch typed on a keyboard using just one hand?

(There, I've said it. I give that one about 10 mins, before we are back to the gravitas)

[BentleyH]

I wonder why it's so important for Unite to have staff travel re-instated as part of the negotiation. I heard quite a few of their members saying on the radio leading up to the strikes that most BA staff don't really use staff travel as it's cheaper to go elsewhere, and that it really wasn't that important. Guess they won't miss it then when it's not given back.

[Glamgirl]

I'm just back from the weekend. Our LGW report centre has been full of crew, managers, pilots and colleagues from other departments. The atmosphere was great. Sure enough, it wasn't a party, but everybody wanted to pull together and make it work.

Our customers were happy and understanding. They were also surprised (in a good way) that they got the full BA service on the flight (Long haul).

The picket line at the South Terminal roundabout didn't look like much, to be honest. A few drab flags and even less people who looked like they were cold and wet.

The union has issued some outrageous statements, claims and rumours over the last few days (nothing new there...). Most of them have been mentioned here already, so I won't go too much into them, except that the union is obviously lying. Also, interestingly enough, most reps were on either long-term sick or annual leave at the weekend (not forgetting that a fair few are suspended as well). Read that whichever way you want, but to me, it's obvious that they're protecting themselves from the loss of ST and potential diciplinaries. Interestingly enough, it seems that two reps from the union resigned before the weekend. Allegedly, of course.

I don't know what is happening with the strikers this week. I wish I knew, but I'm not going to make something up. I personally think that more crew will turn up for work this coming weekend.

What I do have to say though, is that looking at pictures and film clips from the pickets, I'm pretty disgusted with the striker's behaviour. T-shirts with WW made to look like Hitler, pig masks, devil masks, underwear on a washing line, boo-ing aircraft and not forgetting: Bringing children to the pickets. Seriously, there is no way I would bring my children to such a place with such an atmosphere. I can only imagine the language around the pickets and that's something I wouldn't want to expose my kids to. At least these parents should have the decency and common sense to get a childminder.

I will be working at the weekend, as will many of my colleagues. I will wear my uniform with pride, as I know I'm doing the right thing.

For those still wavering, please don't listen to rumours, whether they're about LGW being closed/sold off or that strikers will be on NF by checking in to CRC/JH. They are simply rumours and have no substance.

In my eyes, the union is desperate now. Why else would they be sending text messages, emails etc every couple of hours? Why does TW keep appealing to whoever he can think of to get WW to negotiate?

I want nothing more that for this situation to be resolved. However, I don't see WW backing down, which is good. Why do I say that? Reason being that if (and it's a big if) WW backed down, the union would think they'd won and continue to throw their toys out of the pram at the mere hint of a change within IFCE. Customers would continue to leave us, due to the potential unrest (a bit like a dormant volcano), and what do we have without the customers? Exactly - no airline.

Gg

These are my opinions and not those of my employer

[Timothy Claypole]

One rep resigned so that he/she wouldn't have to strike and could finish his/her CSD course. Nothing like leading the faithful to a strike then ducking out because it'll hurt you financially. Although he/she did turn up at Bedfont on the last day, so thats OK then.:rolleyes:

Latest BASSA tripe is that BA are definitely counting the crews returning to LHR over the strike in those that reported at CRC. Bad news BASSAnistas, they aren't!

[fly12345]

Allegedly two bassa reps have resigned and operated during the week end.


Facts and fiction

There have been conflicting reports about how many flights operated this weekend, how many customers flew with us, and how many of you came to work.

The numbers grew over the three days and on Monday these are the actual numbers of crew who came to work:

Fleet Rostered Actual at Work Percentage at work
Worldwide 1174 632 54%
Eurofleet 600 386 64%
Gatwick 246 237 96%
Total 2020 1255 62%

[ranger07]

A wonderful post, thank you, very elating:D

[sixmilehighclub]

Fly - that certainly paints a different picture to whats been painted by BASSA & the press. I'd like to see BASSAs exact figures too, how many voted to strike, how many turned up to picket, etc. Numbers, not percentages please! Would be nice to compare.

Well done Glamgirl and all others that braved going in. The picket lines were the easy option after all. :ok:

For those crew who now have XXXX on their roster, did they go bowling or something? :}

I'm assuming all those gathered out on the picket lines have now caught a cold and will be going sick as a result, probably around friday eve?

Six

[77]

Interesting pieces in todays Newspapers...
From The Times
Brendan Barber, General Secretary of the Trades Union Congress, is expected to intervene today, urging both sides to return to the negotiating table. A negotiated settlement would have to include assurances that existing cabin crew could continue to work on their current long-haul routes, which offer generous allowances to bolster basic pay. Also, their rest days would have to be protected, Unite national officers be given a formal role in the company, 38 staff suspended for alleged intimidation be reinstated, travel discounts be returned to strikers and an anti-victimisation clause be written into BA contracts.
There is little prospect of Willie Walsh, BA’s chief executive, acquiescing. He is adamant that management has a right to set company policy.

..............And they still have a shopping list !!!!

And from The Daily Mail

At a Unite rally at Heathrow yesterday, the mood was despondent. Many of the mainly female BA cabin crew said they wanted to return to work and added they would not take part in Saturday's strike.
Sue Jones, 42, who has worked at BA for nine years, said: 'We've got our point across and the union even wants to get back to the negotiating table. At the end of the day, we know there's got to be cost- cutting, but we just want job protection.'
Another 37-year- old air stewardess, who did not want to be identified, said: 'Of course I want to be back in work and, to be honest, I don't think there will be more strikes on Saturday
'I'm just glad to have a job. By striking there's less of a chance that my job will be there in the future. I will definitely be back working if the strikes continue.'
The scale of the strike-breaking cheered the City, which had been watching the action nervously.


Read more: British Airways strike: Cabin crews lose will to fight | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1259945/British-Airways-strike-Cabin-crews-lose-fight.html#ixzz0j18jtt5p)

[Timothy Claypole]

I've yet to catch BA lying, unlike Unite. If Unite had offered a 'no extra cost pay deal' I'm sure BA would be interested. Sadly all Unite have offered are some temporary pay cuts (to be repaid at a later date) and some middle east back to backs.

[TightSlot]

Several posts deleted as made in response to posts made by person assessed as not eligible to post on this thread (not BA or crew)

[JoseBarahona]

Can I ask the mods why people who are seemingly pro BASSA have so many of their posts deleted.

I'm VCC and despise BASSA, but not having access to their forum i find it v useful to get their opinions on here. If only to try and persuade them they're wrong, so they can perhaps go back and tell their blinkered friends. (wishful thinking).

What happened to Cymmons msg???

Mod edit: Engage Brain before posting please

[ArthurScargill]

Eddy - Yesterday, you said you were going to post your account of the day you were striking.
I'm genuinely interested to hear your story. Please can you post it ? I'm sure i won't be the only one keeping an eye out for that.

As for ST, again - wait till the end of the week to see the outcome of that one. There's no quick and easy way to block 100s (assuming it is 100s) of peoples access to ST.

Did i read it correctly that WW is doing another webcast tomorrow ?

[Human Factor]

As for ST, again - wait till the end of the week to see the outcome of that one. There's no quick and easy way to block 100s (assuming it is 100s) of peoples access to ST.

Considering it was done this afternoon and the letters have been posted, maybe it's quicker to do than you thought. :oh:

[demomonkey]

I heard from a colleague who operated during the weekend. On their return flight they had a commuter who was traveling in uniform. The commuter was apparently throwing dirty looks at all the operating crew.

I don't understand the mentality of someone who but for luck has not had to choose whether to cross the picket line or not but still expects to commute to work on BA aircraft/ST and criticize the operating crew who may be non-union members, people who voted NO from day one or just people with mortgages to pay.

Another case of double standards from the Union who only knows how to say 'NO'.

Crew who have, are and will operate throughout these periods of BASSA incovenience - I have the deepest of respect for you all and I hope all FD colleagues will do whatever we can now and in the future to keep you flying with us! :D

[ArthurScargill]

Considering it was done this afternoon and the letters have been posted, maybe it's quicker to do than you thought. :oh:

Is that true ? If so, great. i just know its not as easy as flicking a switch - well it is but you have to do it X times so it looks like someone has been busy today

[VSOP Fables]

Yes he is Arthur. 13.30 from memory - but it's not on the web just transmitted round various areas from Wts Theatre. The other places get a view of his PowerPoint pres and the audio via a speakerphone.

[sixmilehighclub]

For all those who chose to work during strike days, would it not be a good idea to start a new union? Maybe it won't be as strong as BASSA, etc but surely members would be more willing to reach a fairer outcome through negotiating, as they have more of a 'common sense' understanding and empathy of the company's position and industry difficulties, and don't have the history of stubborn union/company battles and petty arguements.

Who's in?

Six :cool:

[The masked goatrider]

Crew who have, are and will operate throughout these periods of BASSA incovenience - I have the deepest of respect for you all and I hope all FD colleagues will do whatever we can now and in the future to keep you flying with us!

Crew who have, are and will operate throughout these periods should hang their heads in shame. A large portion of the membership are fighting to retain jobs and minimise the depth of the pay cuts so they can retain employment opportunities into the future not only for themselves but for the crews of the future.

The members who have respected the democratic decision to make this stand also have mortgages to pay and are making this stand for the benefit of all (including the strike breakers). To break rank and assist the airline and its overpaid managers only prolongs the process. The tag of a strike breaker is one you will wear for the rest of your lives and take in to your grave. The dirty looks on flights and comments at social functions will continue forever.

[TorC]

For all those who chose to work during strike days, would it not be a good idea to start a new union? Maybe it won't be as strong as BASSA, etc but surely members would be more willing to reach a fairer outcome through negotiating, as they have more of a 'common sense' understanding and empathy of the company's position and industry difficulties, and don't have the history of stubborn union/company battles and petty arguements.

Who's in?

Six :cool:

Excellent idea! So good in fact, that some have already done as you suggest: www.professionalcrewcouncil.com (http://www.professionalcrewcouncil.com) :ok:

[one2go]

Is that true ? If so, great. i just know its not as easy as flicking a switch - well it is but you have to do it X times so it looks like someone has been busy today

The IT dept have been working on this all day

[saveconcorde]

The tag of a strike breaker is one you will wear for the rest of your lives and take in to your grave. The dirty looks on flights and comments at social functions will continue forever.

and those that choose to intimidate (even at social functions) will not last long in BA. They will be long gone when those that stood strong and supported the company (also their democratic right) will be happy in the knowledge that BA is still around to pay their mortgages etc...

[TorC]

My report of operating over the strike days is on the previous thread.

I also worked today, the first of the non-strike days, so thought I'd just give a quick view.

I was a little apprehensive about going in, not sure how things would be. Still some support staff at crew car park, on bus (still with frosted windows) and at CRC. More management in CRC than is usual. Calm atmosphere.

In all honesty, it seemed to me to be just like a normal day. Except that not one single word was heard from anyone I came in contact with regards STRIKE / BASSA / UNITE / WW / BF. Refreshing! I honestly do not know, nor do I have even the merest hint as to what the 8 crew I worked with did over the strike days.

[Nevermind]

Masked Goatrider
Spare us the rhetoric. The benefit of all? You are kidding, right? Shall I explain that to the passengers? I am happy for both sides to come on here and give their view. But at least back it up with some FACTS. Can you explain why you are on strike? No BASSA quotes please. Just a simple explanation as to why you need to strike.
And I assure you that any dirty looks or comments on my flights will be regarded as bullying and harassment - you know, the stuff you keep accusing BA of doing. People who take this stuff into a customer service job needing to be looking for a new career path.

[oldbird]

Not all of us who chose to work at the weekend are gloating. For most it was a hard decision. I do not revel in people losing staff travel and have empathy for those who elected to exercise their right to strike.

Bullying and harrassment goes both ways. I want to go to work and just get on with it and not be subject to pro Bassa or pro company propaganda. Somewhere inbetween the rhetoric being thrown out by Unite and BA is the truth but I doubt that any of us know what that is.

Glamgirl neither you nor your new organisation are going to win that many supporters by being so obviously delighted in punishment meted out to your fellow crew members. By all means have a differing view point but do it with tact and diplomacy. There may come a time when you have a real battle with WW and I hope you're up to the task.

[sixmilehighclub]

A large portion of the membership are fighting to retain jobs and minimise the depth of the pay cuts
BA never intended or mentioned a pay cut. The Union offered the company to cut crew pay, without consulting crew first.

The members who have respected the democratic decision to make this stand also have mortgages to pay and are making this stand for the benefit of all (including the strike breakers).
You could also argue that those who broke the strike kept revenue coming in, for the benefit of all including the strikers. No revenue, no airline, no job. Wouldn't be easy, 13,000 crew flooding the market for work at the same time.

The tag of a strike breaker is one you will wear for the rest of your lives and take in to your grave. The dirty looks on flights and comments at social functions will continue forever.
Yes you can clearly tell a strike breaker from a striker by looking at them.
Masked Goatrider, I'm sure you'll be one of those throwing dirty looks at 'social functions', and on flights, as you are crew, commuting from Melbourne??? :rolleyes:

The standing ovations from passengers in T5 must have been quite intimidating for the crew.

:mad:

Six

[Juan Odeboyse]

Gg wrote:

Seriously, there is no way I would bring my children to such a place with such an atmosphere. I can only imagine the language around the pickets and that's something I wouldn't want to expose my kids to. At least these parents should have the decency and common sense to get a childminder.

I thought the children at BFC was fantastic and you imagined wrong about the language, on the contrary the atmosphere was brilliant!!

An absolutely great end to the three days, the third being the most well attended - roll on next weekend. :ok:

[slimey99]

So what impact will the announcement of our schedule for the week end have? The complete schedule being flown by BA metal at LGW cannot go unnoticed by Unite surely? :rolleyes:

Indeed, typical BASSA tactics/reaction to try and say that the LGW operation is being sold off!!

So I just wander if those waivering and rostered for this week-end will take time to really think about what has been announced. The schedule contains no phantom flights, they are all there for people to see and book onto.

I foresee that we will be able to stand up a number of flights from freighters into commercial operations on top of what has been announced as I know that the assumptions of crew numbers upon which the schedule is based are very conservative.

I just hope that crew will take time to think that this is real proof that the strikers are in the minority and not the other way round

[Tiramisu]

demonmonkey,
I operated on day 1 and day 2 of the strike. On boarding, this is what a longhaul commuter said to me 'Thank you for being here, I'm so proud of you guys.' Fortunately, not all commuters are the same.

On a different note, Bill Francis said he and Willie Walsh have been overwhelmed by the support shown by crew over the strike days.
Bill Francis also said that he and Willie Walsh have to think very carefully about how they show their commitment to crew who have come to work when asked.

This was in response to a question asked if those who came to work and were loyal to BA would be given the opportunity to accept his 'fair and reasonable' original offer in my view that BASSA refused.

I'm BA cabin crew and the above are my personal views.

[HiFlyer14]

MaskedGoatrider,


A large portion of the membership are fighting to retain jobs and minimise the depth of the pay cuts so they can retain employment opportunities into the future not only for themselves but for the crews of the future


You may wish to rewrite your post as it is entirely incorrect.

They are not fighting to retain jobs - the jobs went voluntarily.
They are not fighting to minimise the depth of the pay cuts. BA didn't suggest pay cuts - the Union did.
They are not fighting to retain employment opportunities - there won't be any if BA do not survive this, or at best, the offers from BA will be worse than those already offered.

They are simply...fighting.:confused:

[Glamgirl]

Oldbird,


Glamgirl neither you nor your new organisation are going to win that many supporters by being so obviously delighted in punishment meted out to your fellow crew members. By all means have a differing view point but do it with tact and diplomacy. There may come a time when you have a real battle with WW and I hope you're up to the task.



I've not said I'm delighted in any punishment the striking crew will get. However, I do think that WW needs to carry out what he's said he will, otherwise he won't be taken seriously. Also, do you think it's fair that the strikers should have no repercussions for downing tools so to speak? They have put the company in a bad position, made themselves look like militants and made the public think we're overpaid primadonnas. I don't think that's fair to all the crew who did turn up for work.

WW and BF explained in emails to every crew member the consequenses of going on strike. My main issue isn't whether people have the right to strike, but my issue is with the union for misleading their members. They've done this by lying - and blatantly at that. It's been proven in court, and proven in the last few days by the public, media and employees who did work.

Can you honestly say that you trust the union to act in your best interest, knowing that they're lying to you? Can you trust them to look after you when they haven't explained what to do after a strike? And can you truly believe they have your interest at heart when most of them won't be receiving the same "punishment" as the striking members, due to being on annual leave/long term sick?

I don't take any delight into the fact that strikers will be punished by the company. I actually feel sorry for most of them, and that being those who've been led down the garden path with lies.

Gg

My own opinions and not those of my employer

[TightSlot]

There have been several requests for posts that are perceived to be pro-BASSA to be deleted. We're trying (with varying degrees of success, admittedly) to allow this forum to reflect as many views as possible. Just because you may disagree with the sentiments expressed does not mean that a post should be deleted. If we start deleting posts purely because of the opinions expressed, we risk no longer being seen as impartial.

If you come across a post that appears designed to be inflammatory, step back a moment before posting. Maybe take a look at the PPRuNe profile of the person posting, or possibly take a look at the history of previous posts. These will often tell you whether a reply is worth your valuable time, or whether simply ignoring an obvious provocation would be more sensible.

Take the post above by The masked goatrider, for example. This person lives on the other side of the world, clearly has no connection with BA and appears to work for QANTAS, an airline plagued by staff dissent. This information might lead you to conclude that The masked goatrider is the kind of person that has their own agenda and should therefore be ignored.

The easiest method for dealing with Trolls is not to feed them, and in doing so, retain the moral high ground.

[ArthurScargill]

Tightslot - well said. And personally i think this thread is benefitting from a more 'relaxed' approach to moderating. :ok:
We should allow both sides to argue their case - its a free world.

[oldbird]

Glamgirl...

No I don't think he should take away staff travel because my personal opinion is that he's punishing staff for doing something they are within legal rights to do. It would be different if it was a mass sick call or people just walking out without a ballot but this wasn't the case. It sets a precedent. There may come a time in the future when flight deck or cabin crew have a real battle, emphasis on real and then what?

If this is about saving the company money at a difficult econonomic time then why don't the flight deck give up their scope clause and allow flying to do be done by people who can do it cheaper? Not relevant to this I know, but all I hear is how they want to save the company so put your money where you mouth is because all I ever hear is how awful the cabin crew is and how they are out to save BA. At the end of the day I really do want to go into work, do my job and not have to listen to any of this.

Quite honestly I don't believe everything BA says any more than I believe everything BASSA says.

[sixmilehighclub]

Sorry TS I was one of those who had to bite! Just couldn't see the logic in much of a particular post.

The thread title is indeed British Airways vs BASSA, and its a two sided discussion.

However, what's weird is, there are 5 groups seem to have formed...

1 - Pro BASSA
2 - Pro BA
3 - Undecided, on the fence
4 - Undecided but pressured/swayed into working due to worry/peer pressure.
5 - Undecided but pressured/swayed into striking due to worry/peer pressure.

Most I have spoken to are in group 3 or 4.

[chickenlover]

Could the pro-strike lobby please explain the purpose of the abusive gestures fired at non-BA crews going to work for their own airlines (ie totally unrelated to the strike) from the picket line on the roundabout ? How is that going to garner support ? I'm sure your kids learnt some interesting hand gestures to try out at nursery.......
My degree of support for your cause evaporated at that moment.
Class act.

[OverFlare]

No I don't think he should take away staff travel because my personal opinion is that he's punishing staff for doing something they are within legal rights to do

I guess one response to this is that, while it is legal to go on strike, there is no reason why the employer should make it an easy choice and not do all it can, legally, to mitigate the damage. If removing staff travel might put some people off actually striking, both now and in the future, I don't really see why the company can't do it.

One legal action by strikers has led to an equally legal response by BA.

[Glamgirl]

Oldbird,

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here. However, I think that the union went for the strike option far too soon. Had there been proper negotiations instead of what actually happened, there may not have been a need for all this. Basically, what the union has done now, is to give themselves less bargaining power for the future. Partly due to the amount of members cancelling their membership, partly because they went "nuclear" too soon and can't seem to be reasoned with.

Gg

My opinions and not those of my employer

[320 driver]

from Oldbird

No I don't think he should take away staff travel because my personal opinion is that he's punishing staff for doing something they are within legal rights to do.

They are within legal rights to strike but ST is a privilege and a benefit not a right. So why should the company confer concessions and privileges on thoise that seek to ruin its business.


why don't the flight deck give up their scope clause and allow flying to do be done by people who can do it cheaper? Not relevant to this I know, but all I hear is how they want to save the company so put your money where you mouth is


FD have put a damn sight more money where their mouth is than BASSA. ALL pilots have taken a pay cut (amounting to 7% for some) which is more than BASSA offered and beats the pay freeze that the union is bleating/striking about. The scope agreement ensures flights are operated by BA crews. If you think getting in outside crews at market rate is a good idea then lets go for it and see crew from virgin/ryanair/easyjet etc doing the cabin crew job for less than half what the current BA crew do it for.

This dispute has come about precisely because of such ideas which prove that BASSA live in cloud cuckoo land.

[Meal Chucker]

Striking crew have just starting receiving ESS messages about staff travel removal, effective 14th April.

[flyinspanner]

The fact is that many people believe that this is about imposition.
They want to have system where fair negotiation takes place, the two sides have come very close BA wants 62.5m the union offered 55m...and so we lose how much for a 7.5m difference?

Both sides have made mistakes, neither will admit it though.

Negotiation isn't one side saying "no, £62.5m" and thats it"

A middle ground needs to be found.....and it will ......but we will all lose.
(Unions did agree a pension solution this week -the difference being the egos involved in the talks maybe?)

Many of you think this is all about £.......then why have so many decided that this fight is worth losing staff travel over?
It is more about fairness and principles, threatening to remove staff travel was intended to influence the result of the ballot/action.

If imposition is allowed without challenge, do others here hoestly think that their dept will be immune? That you gave enough last time?

Openskies will return.......I've flown with many Flt crew who support cabin crew as they think that costs will be cut elsewhere next....

Back office - look at staffing levels/pay in low costs -there is your future.

How many crew managers do you think ej etc has in relation to BA? Productivity to be had there if a Fleet Director type flying/office role comes back again!

Cabin crew are bearing the brunt of the attack as they are a large group, they wont be the last! (All A Scales still not agreed...)

As for the "fact" that BA cant tell a lie as they are a PLC....please! they lied about how much I earn recently (im full time and £8k short of the 'average' gross for my grade after 28yrs!!!!). They also have been caught by many fines recently, -so were they for good behaviour?
They dont have to divulge sensetive operational info......so this weekends figures???

On a pragmatic level, I worry that CRM has been massively damaged.

I wont allow intimidation either as we move forward, so maybe everyone should really think before they say something that they will regret later.

Its not your intention that matters, its the impact of the words.

We need to act as one team onboard, reflect on that. Your personal opinions are just that. Keep them out of the equation.

[Timothy Claypole]

Negotiation was about how you achieve your savings, not how much you save. BASSA had their chance and blew it, which is why Tony Woodley is now begging BA to reinstate an offer far inferior to the one which BA made last June. Meanwhile, coming to a letterbox near you tomorrow......

Dear Colleague

I am writing to advise you that our records show that you failed to report for your rostered duty over the strike period of 20 – 22 March, we therefore consider you to have taken part in industrial action. As a result the following consequences will apply.

Loss of Pay


As we have previously explained you will not be paid from the point you started taking industrial action until the date you are either allocated another duty, or you undertake your next rostered duty. As you are in breach of contract over this period we are entitled to deduct pay. This deduction will take place in March’s pay.

Removal of staff travel


We have advised all cabin crew on a number of occasions that if you took part in industrial action, this would result in the permanent withdrawal of your staff travel concessions. These concessions are non contractual and granted, changed or withdrawn at the sole discretion of British Airways.

Therefore, from 14 April 2010, you are not eligible to benefit from any staff travel concessions either in your own right or as a nominee of another serving or former British Airways’ employee.

You may no longer use any type of rebate travel concessions whether on British Airways flights or those of other airlines associated with British Airways for concessionary travel purposes. Concessions include Basic and Premium Standby, Annual Bookable tickets – whether granted for status or length of service. You may, however, continue to benefit from discounted commercial tickets (Hotline).

The decision to withdraw staff travel concessions in these circumstances has not been taken lightly. The industrial action in which you took part has severely impacted upon our operations and customers and we will, undoubtedly, suffer additional costs and further losses as a result.

There is no right of appeal following this decision.

Ouch!

[Nevermind]

OLDBIRD

Scope clauses and all other agreements the flight crew have, are a result of engaging the company with our concerns, and through tough but normally civilised negotiations, we are where we are. Since Feb last year, the company has tried to engage with BASSA, to no avail, and eventually imposed the changes they required to meet the savings target. Have a look at what the cabin crew were offered last summer, and tell me how the approach BASSA has taken, has benefited the work force? Refusing to examine the accounts, not turning up to negotiations before the June deadline, agreeing a 3 week extension to show the membership the latest deal, and the next day announcing strike action, thereby costing the company millions. Yes, the breakdown the relationship with the company has been caused by the two sides over the last 20 years. But when the **** his the economy last year, to behave as they have, BASSA have let all the crew down. And having operated this weekend, and seen the CRC full of cabin crew, and so many flights take off with grateful passengers, then watching the disingenuous information told on TV by Unite, which I knew not to be true, I truly felt sorry for our cabin crew, who have been deeply let down by their union. For 13 months. The sad part is that the previous 20 years have made many crew refuse to even examine the facts. That has been, for quite some time, a job that BALPA has been doing so well for us..........

[320 driver]

I think you are under a couple of misapprehensions:

You are right that BA do not have to divulge sensitive data. But any data that they DO divulge must be accurate if it pertains to commercial performance. Also, there has been no verifiable misinformation from BA but it is hard to find a single piece of verifiable info from BASSA that is not grossly distorted or just a plain old lie.

I don't think it is fair to paint this a a challenge to impositions. The union had over a year to negotiate but wasted most of this time not talking to the company or not even talking to itself! Meanwhile all the other unions were coming to workable arrangements. Do you really think that taking a year to talk seriously is reasonable. By that measure, all any union would have to do is just refuse to talk ever and then nothing need change, ever!

I have personally met no FC who support the IA and I would estimate that I have had contact with around 150 since the IA was announced. If there are any, then its a tiny minority.

[Timothy Claypole]

You must be wrong 320 driver, as on CF and BASSA they are claiming that pilots are sympathising with striking crew and saying how disgusted they are with pilots volunteering to work as cabin crew. That said I, I havn't met any of these sympathetic pilots either!:E

[Juan Odeboyse]

Tightslot/Mods - well done and at long last, some fair moderation on this forum.

Flyinspanner - bravo!...could not have said it better myself.

Gg - not enough pre strike discussions...where have you been for the last 18 months? Are you ready for Newfleet because by working at the weekend your are one step closer to it.

[Juan Odeboyse]

Timothy Claypole - I've witnessed strong feelings towards both avenues of thought re strike from my FD colleagues. However the worst venom I heard was re the volunteering FD to work thru the strike, This is going to take years to get over, especially within a small community. How sad.

[HiFlyer14]

Glamgirl neither you nor your new organisation are going to win that many supporters by being so obviously delighted in punishment meted out to your fellow crew members. By all means have a differing view point but do it with tact and diplomacy. There may come a time when you have a real battle with WW and I hope you're up to the task.


Oldbird - you have levelled quite a harsh criticism at a colleague - yet fail to quote where you feel that has been stated. Having read Glamgirl's post again, I fail to see any "obvious delight in punishment meted out to your fellow crew members". Can you please quote which part prompted you to write that?

I also would like to address the complete fallacy that just because people do not support this current strike situation, they or any new organisation would be unable to challenge the management. That is rubbish.

The best way to get what you want, as you yourself have stated, is through tact and diplomacy. That is what the Professional Cabin Crew Council are proposing to do in the future. Where is the tact and diplomacy offered by Unite? I have never, ever in my entire long career in BA seen "tact and diplomacy" with Unite. I have, it has to be said, also seen management come and go within BA that have lacked "tact and diplomacy".

But this situation has been handled by the current management with complete regard for the current crew's position. "Minimise the impact on current crew" is a phrase we have heard more times than we care to remember now. Why is it so frowned upon to recognise and acknowledge that management have looked after our interests? Is it just a case of crew being so used to management not respecting their interests, as in the past, that they actually cannot now accept one that does?

Oldbird, I don't know if you flew (pun intended:)) at the weekend, but the atmosphere was tangible. People were very pleased to be there, very happy to have made their own choice, and it was extremely liberating. Ironically everyone was talking about the same thing - the strike. But for the first time in a zillion trillion years it was not management bashing, but people were quite literally saying that "BASSA has let everyone down." Most people were phoning and texting friends telling them "It's ok to come in to work". People were most definitely looking out for each other, whichever side of the fence they were on.

It is a sad day indeed when everyone is literally sick to their stomach about going to work in a job they love. There is only one cause to all of this. BASSA.

[Juan Odeboyse]

Hi Flyer14 - its not Bassa, its UNITE, also you comment on PCCC - do you know how it is going/howmany have joined. The only place it is mentioned regularly is on this forum.

[HiFlyer14]

Juan,

The Amicus reps themselves have indicated that they have not been happy with the way things have progressed so I'm afraid BASSA it is.

In answer to your second question, Yes, I do.:ok:

And many crew that have registered with us since Friday have all started their emails with "A friend has told me about PCCC". So, although it started off on this forum, the Professional Cabin Crew Council is now spreading rapidly. Which is exactly the way it was intended to work.:D

[Juan Odeboyse]

Well sorry to disappoint you HF14 but it was only yesterday that I had a lengthy conversation with an Amicus rep who was more than happy at what was occurring.

Re PCCC - how many have actually joined then?

The removal of staff travel will only strengthen the resolve of CC - its just more bullying and as for our striking commuters who were interviewed/recruited overseas, I can only see this a form of constructive dismissal and I;m sure many in the legal profession would agree.

[Dumbreck]

Sorry Juan,
I don't agree with that.
It's not the companies job to provide me with a means of getting to my work so I doubt that it's a case for constructive dismissal.

[sixmilehighclub]

its not Bassa, its UNITE

Unite wouldnt be involved if BASSA had succesfully negotiated in the beginning.
Crew pay membership monies to BASSA, not UNITE.

Happy to be corrected.

Six

[Juan Odeboyse]

To all those that operated over the first wave of strikes and feel bad about it / wrong decision maybe think carefully about next weekend and the second longer wave. You know within yourself your choices for the future - could you survive on Newfleet? How will you feel in the fiture when we are all flying together again?
Come to BFC and join your many comrades for support and information (along with many donuts and samosas!) and your mind will soon be put to rest you will be greeted with open arms...children and dogs welcome as well.

[Juan Odeboyse]

6MHC if you think that Willy would have ever come to any agreement over these past talks then I'm sorry to say you are wrong. By continually changing the goalposts when each time UNITE has got near to achieving savings along with various reasons of late for withdrawing 'offers' its as plain as the nose on your face he is not wanting agreement - he is only set on breaking our union representation.

Hope you are now happy having been corrected. :ok:

[sixmilehighclub]

Correct Dumbreck, its not constructive dismissal. Loss of non-contractual benefits is not related to terminating a contract of employment through underhand methods.

So Juan I doubt if anyone in the legal profession would agree.

As for staff travel and commuting, staff travel is not provided as a means for you to get to work, that is your own problem. If one chooses to use staff travel to get to work, thats their decision.

Staff travel is a perk, not a right.

[strikemaster82]

Juan: How will you feel in the fiture when we are all flying together again?

I expect that depends on how the strikers treat the non-strikers. What had you in mind?

[Dumbreck]

I think the company may have missed a trick here.
My gut feeling is that there are lots of crew who chose to strike in phase I who now see the writing on the wall and may have regretted taking IA.
Now, if the above posts are correct and the Staff Travel e-mails are filling up in-boxes as we speak is there not an opportunity to try and really put this to bed once and for all and give people a second chance.
I think a lot of crew have been swept up in all of this and with the benefit of hindsight may think differently now as most of them just want to get on with the job and put this behind them.
Personally a yellow card for all the strikers but an opportunity to stay on the park would be an option for me.
I'm sure if the company put in place a process for those concerned this could result in a moral victory for BA fairly quickly.
Thoughts anyone?