OASC 'CANDIDATES' and WANNABES, PLEASE READ THIS THREAD FIRST!

[mattbeaton]

I am going to the OASC pretty soon and I still have no idea about how fast you have to run a mile and a half in. Does anyone know out there who could help me and generally let me know about the fitness test itself?

Thanks!

Matt

[noisy]

Hi Matt,

I vaguely remember that you have to be able to cover the ground at a rate of a Half a mile every three and a half minutes.

However, the RAF fitness test is now a shuttle run over 18, 20 or 25 metres, depending on how much of a short@rse you are. You may find the requirement if you search pprune under iot or oasc.

I don't think it's part of the fitness test, but later on, during IOT, you may have to do a set number of press ups and sit ups. This is the best information I have right now.

You have done well to go forward for OASC-don't screw it up by being unfit or not practising your maths. You owe it to yourself.

Word hard and be lucky!!

[monkeytamer]

I remember 13 press ups (no time limit), ~30 sit ups in under a minute.
For the run I think it was 1&1/2 miles in around 10 minutes being acceptable for the middle fitness group.
For the bleep test it all depended on your sex & age.

One thing most people didn't know about was the swimming test (especially important for aircrew). That was 6 o r8 lengths of the pool and treading water for a minute

All of it is easily done if you are reasonably fit.

[buoy15]

MATT
The important thing is to show an improvement over the length of the course - in every discipline. As for the run, I had been jockstrapping for months ahead, wearing DMS boots. On my first run (with the DI staff watching) I managed an easy 12 minutes. At the end of 18 weeks I clocked up 8 mins 30secs. Even attracted a compliment from the PE'd staff as I had just passed my 36th birthday.
Best of luck!:ok:

[Slow-Rider]

At OASC the only fittness test you do is the bleep test, no press ups, no sit ups, no 1.5 mile runs. They are done at your fam visit prior to IOT if your are succesful at OASC.

Loads of good threads on OASC on this forums if you search for it.

Beware of some false information about the bleep test. There was a discussion suggesting that the PTI's will stop you when you reach a certain level. That's not true it is a best effort assesment as several of my friends have reported since their visit last week.

Good luck

[The mother alligator]

Correct, fitness at OASC is tested using the bleep test:
10.6 Good
11.7 Excellent
I don't know any below that, hopefully you won't need to know them!!
TMA

[QE4]

Find out what level bleep test you require for your age. If you can do 1 level better thats as good as it needs to be. Don't try too hard when you first arrive, as improvement is the key (makes the PTIs look good)
The 1 1/2 mile at the fam visit, just decides which PTI group you will be in.
Group 1. Is for racing snakes and fitness freaks so you will work really hard during IOT.
Group 2. Is for the competitve but not so fit, so you will still work really hard.
Group 3. Hear goes the none PC bit, is generally for the couch potatoes and the girls.

Now the logic, they will nearly all pass IOT regardless of fitness, so if you like looking at girls arses and you want to be able to improve, go for a nice steady run on the fam visit.

You aint seen me right!

[WSOPWannabe1]

Just been back from a WSOp Fam visit in Cranwell, where the PTI's and NCAITC boss said that you should be aiming to clear the 2.4km in around 10mins 30s.

They also mentioned the Aircrew swimming test: 100m in Flying Suit ( any side or front stroke) and tread water for 2mins then climb out unassisted. I assume if you can run the 2.4km in around 10 mins, the Bleep test at OASC will be no bother ( I hope so anyway!)

WW1

[mattbeaton]

I went to the local careers office and went through all the appropriate interviews etc and its been 8 weeks and still not heard anything from OASC!! Careers sent me a letter saying I was through, and they said that they would chase it up for me but I have still not heard anything! Does anyone know if there is a problem or if the waiting time has increased as they're so full or what? Have I done anything wrong? Any input would be greatly appreciated!

[Big Cheese1]

If you have a look on my thread 'RAF vacancies' you'll see that recruitment is almost at a standstill with many branches.

So given that, I guess it would definately contribute to a large hold up at the AFCO's at present.

Good luck:ok:

[JessTheDog]

It can take a very long time....months to get offered an OASC place, if you pass then an initial confirmation you have met the standard required, and another long wait for an IOT date. Much patience required!

[nimrodcatcher]

Last I heard, four month waiting list for OASC places.....so you'd be looking at October-ish. Things might get even worse if (when??) large-scale "downsizing" is announced as is widely expected.

[STANDTO]

Heres a question - would a British citizen be able to join another commonwealth air force if there were vacancies????

[Spacer]

A friend of mine went through an AFCO at the start of the year and has just got a date back for Sept. When my papers went through a while ago, it was about maybe four months between papers going in and a slot at OASC.

[mattbeaton]

Make that I just got a letter the day after this post, saying come back in a year and we'll have some spaces! I thougt that they made that decision after you had been to OASC and before you went to IOT (yes, IOT, not ICT stupidboy!)?

[chris reynolds]

Hi,
I'm 15 and have just started my GSCE's; and i've also just started the Duke of Edinborough award. I've just come back from work experience at St Mawgan; I already wanted to join the RAF but now I'm certain I want to join as a pilot.
Is there any advice you could give me to help me on my way to joining the RAF as a Pilot.
Thank you.

[Navaleye]

Blimey, its like asking a bunch of prison inmates if its a good idea to come and join them!

If you are interested in a miltary career and you want to fly, then the RAF, FAA and AAC are all options available to you. If you are not already a member join the ATC or something similar, think about joining - it will give you a taste for military life with all its ups and downs. Make sure you are not colour blind as well.

Despite whatever happens in the defence review we will always have a military and it is a good career if you are tempramentally suited to it. If you are not you won't make it through selection. If you just want to make money, then you will be better off in civvy life. Even the Airships don't get paid much by comparison. There are big upsides to being in uniform - but that's a different subject all together.

[SIKWIZZO]

I'd advise you to make sure you want to be an RAF Pilot as opposed to any sort of pilot. Truth is the RAF probably want to see that you want to be in the RAF as well as a pilot so they may want you to put down some other choices when you apply to OASC. Some wannabe end up doing other things in aircraft other than driving.....

Strength and Honour.

SW

[6foottanker]

Top tip (had to get that in there somewhere)

Study something that you enjoy!

Don't think that the RAF want you to do anything technical at A level or uni. They don't neccesarily, so if you want to go to uni, do something that you will enjoy, you can be good at, and that will give you time to go and do lots of extra curricular stuff (like fly with a uas if they still exist then!)

Who knows, by the time you want to join, the RAF will suddenly realise they're really short of pilots, and start recruiting at something close to 'normal' levels.

Best of luck, and remember, the force will be with you. Always.

[PrivatePile]

Hi mate.

As 'always_broken...' suggested, get yourself a good Uni such as Kings College for War Studies ;) and then join the University of London Air Squadron and then get your hands on the beast that is the Grob......:ugh:

[JessTheDog]

Lots of stns run commissioning/NCA groups with after-hours discussions on OASC techniques, current affairs and the occasional leadership exercise or visit. If there isn't one near you, then consider getting involved in setting one up.

[littlepom]

I am due to attend OASC in a few weeks time and currently gathering together some last bits of info and found this site courtesy of a very helpful RAF pilot.

I have been advised by all military personnel that i have spoken with to totally condone any drug use. I do not consider myself a drug user by any means and only drink alcohol and do not smoke. However, at the initial interview at the Careers Advisory Centre when asked if i had EVER used drugs I admitted that I had at university once tried cannabis which was then questioned as to how it made me feel etc and what were my current opinions on it to which i truthfully replied that I understand it is illegal and think it is wrong to engage in such activities particularly when as part of a respectable organisation or one where professionalism and concentration is required at all times. therefore anything that may infringe on one's job commitment even in personal life must be condoned. She seemed to accept my reasoning and honesty and indeed has forwarded me to Cranwell. Now everyone is telling me I should lie. Is this the case? If i tell the truth will i be automatically discarded from selection? Please can someone help? I hate lying but I dont want to ruin my chances if everyone else lies too. Surely they will have my answers anyway with them from the original interview?
Sorry about this little panic but as you can see from all of the other potentials we all get a bit panicky as our time nears! Many thanks for any help and advice.
T-L:D

[Feneris]

Realistically, a proportion of people who go through OASC will have tried/used drugs, and I imagine most would lie about it. They take blood/urine samples at the medical and I assume they will test for drug use. However these will only show use in previous 6 months or so. I doubt wether the actual interview notes from the Careers Liaison Officer will be present, but you cannot be certain.

Admitting it in the initial interview was maybe not the best thing to do. However now you've done it, I would recommend repeating it at OASC. The interview is very, repeat VERY fast paced and a short concise answer is what they ask for. They may not even ask if you have personally tried drugs, but they will certainly cover the drugs topic. I would state that I fully understand that drugs and service in the armed forces are totally incompatible etc. If asked wether you personally have tried them, I would say along the lines of...... 'I once tried cannabis at Uni, it made me feel sick, I regret the incident and have never, or will never repeat what was a foolish incident'. I doubt they will press much further on the subject.

In the above post I've used the words.....imagine, assume, doubt, maybe......because you never know quite what OASC are after. However I know for an absolute fact that if you are caught lying/misleading the interviewing officers you will fail selection.

F

[Gingerbread Man]

I would imagine they will respect your honesty if you tell the truth, especially with the expanation of your views that follow. You may want to check the definition of 'condoned' though. I think it may mean the opposite of what you think it means :p. Be prepared for a difficult question though, they do try and make you think on your feet (but you will be sitting down ;) ).
Oh, and best of luck :D .

Gingerbread Man

[Gainesy]

Don't lie.



Good Luck.

[BEagle]

That was one of the questions we used to have to ask UAS candidates. Along with views on homosexuality and involvement with the police....

Used drugs? Not wanted. Good-bye! Dress it up how you like, but that's how we kept self-confessed drug abusers out of our UAS. Plenty of other folk who'd had more strength of character to choose from.

[SACrIGGER]

Hopefully this won't sound too stupid guys, but what in your opinion would you say is the best tabloid newspaper to read in relation to current affairs ( one that give a RAF side point of view!) Oh and thanks for all the advice so far great help also very encouraging Cheers.

[Gainesy]

Rigger Mate,

I'd suggest you just skim the tabloids and read the Daily Telegraph/ Times and possibly, ( incoming flak to me) the Guardian, to give you a balanced view.

[On an SAC's wages, nick 'em from the Zob's Mess next day. If you find Grauniad has been read, report to Plod.]


How nice to find someone keen & positive, Good Luck to You.:)

[D-IFF_ident]

Don't lie, trust me ;)

[Green Meat]

Littlepom, the genie's out of the bottle now, so I agree with the others who say don't lie. These things have a habit of catching up with you particularly in the OASC interview - they will get you if they think you're not being straight. Remember your personal integrity!

Beags, I agree with your policy of not wanting drug abusers in your UAS, but as someone who these days works a great deal with what I suspect was Littlepom's agegroup at the time of the 'incident', the attitude towards drugs is not the minority, fairly hidden thing it once was and I do think that for Littlepom to try it and then decide it's not for him shows at least a reasonable strength of character given the peer group mentality I observe. I speak as someone who went through university mildly disappointed never to have been offered drugs in order that I could refuse! On the other hand, having seen the effect that regularly smoking cannabis for even a short time does to the reactions and situational awareness of young people, I wouldn't have let them within a mile of a 'dog (or Teutor - must keep up with the times!).

[JessTheDog]

Education Centre will have the newspapers, often used for resettlement - job pages.

[stuk]

Re Cannabis.
I'm sure I read in the popular press that Prince Harry had a go and he's shortly got his interview at Sandhurst.

Sorry - pressed wrong button and ended too early.
As someone who\'s been there and done it at OASC then can\'t emphasise how much I agree that now you have opened the can of worms you must admit, say it was a terrible mistake and will never, ever do it again. And by the way DON\'T do it again or you will not be wanted in charge of one of her majesty\'s aircraft where you will do lots of damage to others whilst under the influence.

[tokentotty]

Agree - just skim the tabloids!

If you don't have time to go through Times/Telegraph every day I suggest you get hold of a magazine called "The Week". Summarises most current events in pretty easy to read format. Also The Economist - not as boring as it sounds - provides a much more international view on current affairs.

Good luck and definitely visit your STDO/OC TDF - they keep a pile of stuff to go through before OASC which is much more comprehensive than the stuff they send out from Cranwell.

[rivetjoint]

From people I've spoken to recently they've tried to find out your views on the subject as well as your experiences, how you'd react to finding your mate having a quick dabble etc, although I suppose they're looking for good answers all over!

Asking anyone for a Rizzla in the Mess is probably best avoided too!

[teeteringhead]

BEags mate

you're a bit out of date. It's no longer a automatic no-no, and answers along the lines of "Tried it once, didn't like it, prefer beer!" go down ok.

The RAF can't afford to miss out on the vast number of youths who have "experimented".

[Mad_Mark]

As has been said already, come and talk to those of us that are doing the job. At Lossie you are in good position to pop over to 202 and spend a day or 2 over at Kinloss on one of the Sqns. We are always happy to host people like you and take you up in the Vomit Comet for a few hours ;)

Good luck

Mad Mark!!! :mad:

[TheBeeKeeper]

Agree with tokentotty,

Economist worked for me! Not only does it give you whats happening now, but also the history behind a subject which helps you best formulate your opinion. And stick to it, don't be bullied into changing your opinion to tell the boarding officers what they want to hear.

I managed to get by on 4 copies of the Economist and two days of Telegraph just before interview.

Ready for incoming flak now, but IMHO, I believe that the boarding officers will have made their opinion, certainly about the way the interview is going to go, within the first 2 minutes!

Clean shaven, smart suit, polished shoes, cheery disposition, strong handshake etc.... then in the chair, sat upright, not fiddling with anything....

People put a huge emphasis on current affairs on the interview, but in reality it only makes up about 5-7 minutes'ish of a 40 minute interview. More important, is that you are fully aware of the job you are applying for and associated training etc.

Goodluck

TheBeeKeeper
(DH82b)
(Ex TG2, and no, it wasn't me the got the trade its nickname!)

[PPRuNeUser0172]

If you have already said to the RAF at interview that you have "tried it once at a party blah............." then you better stick to your guns as they will have this on record. I know several people who have admitted to it in that context and are now in the mob, so it wouldnt seem to be an obvious stopper. However, also heard a guy once told them he did and was unsuccessful (dont think the two were related!) and subsequently re-applied. This time he " forgot" to mention the fact he had tried it and they showed him the door quicker than his feet could carry him.

Moral of story, dont tell porkies at OASC, at all....... ever!!!

BEags, well said!;)

[rivetjoint]

Surely if you've told the officer at the careers office and he's still putting you forward for OASC it can't be a showstopper in his eyes???

[albert the first]

As far as I know what teeteringhead said is correct, and has been for the last few years.

And anyway by what I have seen of the military drugs seem compulsory once you get to the higher ranks, bhah:hmm:

[littlepom]

thanks so much to all you guys for the hopefully sound advice. I'm glad the majority voted what i instinctively feel is right, and dont worry i dont intend on touching the stuff ever again. Thanks especially to Gingerbread man for picking up on my misplaced vocab. Im supposed to have a degree in English and hate getting stuff like that wrong. No excuses. But seriously, thanks. Will keep you all posted on the response re drugsin a few weeks time. With a bit of luck i won't get a direct question like that, but true about Harry - good point although i think prince status may automatically give him a bit of an advantage somehow! I've really enjoyed reading everyone's comments on here and look forward to some interesting discussions and hope to contribute in the near future.

[The mother alligator]

They definately ask you "what, if any, involvement have you had with drugs". I'm sure it's one of the standard questions, just like the one about whether you've been in trouble with the law. I don't think that it will be a problem being honest about it in this case. This is simply because you've already let the cat out of the bag. Normally I would certainly recommend keeping it under wraps.

Anyway, good luck!

TMA

[The mother alligator]

The Week is a good one.
Speed Distance Time stuff.
Also, if making it onto part two, they assess you (as NCA) mostly on how you perform as a team MEMBER, not a leader. Guy from OASC did a talk at our UAS, and that is what he said. So when not leading, make sure you are concentrating on helping out, and not trying to take over the leader's lead. Seen it happen.
Good Luck!!
TMA

[mbga9pgf]

Scud u like; purely statistics chap. get everyone smashed on crack in the bar on friday night I dare say there would be a scrap or two...

returning to the original question, no matter what has happened in the past, you have to be honest; they spot a liar from a mile away. and for me, Integrity and Loyalty are the big two in my bag. If you dont agree with the Queens commision then don't sign up! Im sure the interviewers may value honesty as opposed to disregarding someone for what could be considered in civilian life as an idiscression.(SP i know :-()

[JessTheDog]

Excellent argument ensuing that brings out another perspective on the pre-OASC use of recreational drugs.

In civilian life, low-level drug use (ie cannabis) has little social stigma and nowadays attracts no punishment. So, why all the breast-beating and employment of the "I was young and stupid" or "it was just an experiment" excuses? There is no point in self-justification or self-flagellation, it is more honest and rational to reason that " I am signing up to a way of life with different values to that of civilian life and I undertake to uphold these values; I do not particularly regret smoking cannabis (or whatever) but I understand it has no place in Service life where the consequenses of such actions can be all the more serious and would indicate a contempt for fundamental standards of behaviour."

On second thoughts, I doubt the "mature" line would catch on, and the "I was stupid and experimenting" excuse is the safest! Any thoughts from OASC boarders?

[joe2812]

Quote...

The short, medium and long-term effects of illegal drug misuse can have damaging effects on mental and physical fitness and health, and therefore constitude a direct threat both to the operational effectiveness of the Armed Forces and to the security and safety of the Service personnel and, potentially, the civilians they protect....

...The Armed Forces recognise, however, that drug misuse is increasingly common in civilian life, particularly amoung the young, and that your may have misused drugs yourself in the past. This will not necessarily prevent you from enlisting, as all applications are considered individually and acceptance into the Services will depend on the frequency of use and the class and type of drug that has been misused. Criminal trafficking or supply of any class will bar entry in to the Services.

Once you have joined the Armed Forces, you must not misuse drugs - you are required to stay clear of drugs and to avoid association with drug misusers and suppliers.

- AFCO Form 5 May 2004
- Application and Information Guidance Booklet for Application to HM's Armed Forces

[SpotterFC]

I seem to recall talking to an OiC AFCO a while ago about this, though more to so with OR recruiting than OASC. IIRC an experimentation (but not regular use) with Cannabis (now Class C) was OK-ish but anything higher was a no-no. It was surprising how many people were being binned for thinking that XTC is not illegal, or at the most a Class C drug.

If ever having experienced Cannabis was grounds for being kicked out then my entire JOCC course are gonners, since the DAPO copper lit the corner of the biggest block of Cannabis Resin you ever saw and passed it round during his lecture. Admittedly he did watch to see no-one held on to it for too long: it was "just so we knew what it smelt like".

On the subject of DAPO, bearing in mind when I went through IOT the more generous attitude to drugs had not come into force, the following incident made us all chuckle:

Picture the scene, 80-odd IOT cadets in Whittle Hall for DAPO lecture. Copper says, "Come on you lot, half of you were students so you must have had a go. Anybody had a sniff of Hash?" Whittle Hall always had a soporific effect so I can only assume the person involved was half-asleep, but they raised their hand. 79 pairs of eyes went wide and stared in disbelief at the suicidal gesture (just before collapsing in hysterics), and one person quickly sank very low in their seat and hoped that none of the staff were present (they got away with it - just).

How we all laughed on the way to the serious burns unit!!!!!

[Unmissable]

Please don't lie. Apart from the fact that you've mentioned it once (which will have been recorded), so long as you don't touch them now, then you don't have a problem. Although I can't remember details, I do remember that they changed the question and the (automatic) reaction some years ago, to allow for such people as yourself. Take your advice from people who are up to date. Even going back to your CIO and asking them EXACTLY what the policy is, may put your mind at rest. After all, CIOs take their guidance from OASC and receive regular policy updates.

Otherwise good luck.

Unmissable.

[joe2812]

littlepom,

At the end of the day you cant go back and change things... you tried it and you told the RAF you did. Guarenteed something like that WILL have gone down on your file.

Stick to your story and if it comes up at OASC (which it probably will) then answer something along the lines of

"I did sample cannabis when i was at university but found that i did not like it and have not touched it since. I understand that drugs and service life do not mix and would never dabble in it again as it would be a risk to both myself and others."

Make it clear you understand the RAF's policy on drugs, but also don't go back on what you've said. As pointed out, OASC will respect you for being honest and sticking to your story, but you have to make it 100% clear to them that you understand its wrong and that you wouldnt do it again.

Best of luck :ok:

[Grand Fromage]

LP,

I was in a very similar situation to you, I stupidly admitted to the Navy that I had tried cannabis, once, which is true. I later realised that this could potentially look like i was once a regular user playing my habit down. When I got to OASC i stuck to my guns as mentioned before on this thread, but made it very clear that "Yes i have come into contact with cannabis and on one occasion i was foolish enough to try it, but have not touched it since"

What must look a bit suspicious is 10 young guys in suits waiting to be interviewed who have captained their rugby team, climbed mountains, toured Australia and ... not once even seen or smelt cannabis?

One word, "integrity", the RAF love it.

Anyway, what i think is irrelevent, but to answer your question, i got in!

GF:ok:

[BEagle]

Hmmm. If you were to say "I did sample cannabis when I was at university but found that I did not like it....", it would merely imply that you might have continued to abuse it if you had "liked it".

I say again, there are plenty of non-drug abusers to choose from, particularly now that recruiters can afford to be very selective. And, out of interest, you might like to know that I never heard of anyone who admitted to a previous instance of drug-abuse ever getting beyond the initial UAS interview.

[joe2812]

Maybe not 'liked it', perhaps a change of words? ;)

I think that now he's said it, he'll have to see it through though...a change of story could do your chances more harm than confessing but explaining the circumstances etc.

[badger baiter]

hey just completed my training in cranners months ago I also came from within.

Go for it really want it because I promise when they put that brevet on you and you are gettin payed loads then you will think I wish i had done this sooner!!!!!!

As for advice has anyone told you about

http://www.airmenaircrew.freeserve.co.uk/home/frameset.htm

try that as a helper

Good Luck M8

[supert300]

Having been just left a recruiting job in an AFCO very recently. I was chatting with the RAF OC in the office over lunch and he mentioned that use of drugs was pretty much a bar to entry in the RAF certainly as aircrew and any experimentation at all was not acceptable. The RN accept that people experiment and it is not a problem if a person has tried a drug once provided it stopped there. I suggest that you don't lie as the Careers officer will have noted it in your report and they will read it at OASC. If it doesn't work out and you are serious about a career as military pilot, try the RN.

Hope it works out for you.

[saudipc-9]

What cobblers!!
Just tell them the truth, I did! (let us not forget that integrity is a corner stone of being an Officer!)
Yes I tried it (once) didn't like it and wished I had never done it to start with. However, 4000hrs later it hasn't flashed back in my mind nor did it bar me from entry to the air force.
I would rather have a guy who is honest than someone who lies out of his arse! We all have skeletons in the closet, which if they came out might not get us into a UAS and I'll bet the person doing the UAS interview has one too!!!

OH yes I get drunk on the odd occasion too:yuk: :E

[nightrider1986]

I'm an 18 year old PPL who is going to OASC this sunday. I applied for the sixth form scholorship in 2002, passed the medical and aptitude tests, but failed the interview. Now I have finished taking A-levels, I have decided to apply for direct entry as a pilot and was hoping for some advice on surviving the rest of OASC, particularly the interview. I would also be grateful of some current information on the IOT course, as I was questioned on it last time but my information was out of date.

Thanks

[Wholigan]

I assume that you've looked here (http://www.cranwell.raf.mod.uk/Organisation/DIOT/diotcour.htm)

[Speed Twelve]

What feedback did you receive as to why you failed the interview?
Be positive, project yourself and ennunciate, don't bull$hit; if you don't know the answer to something then say so.

It's pretty fast paced, so try and be concise. If one of the boarding officers cuts you off and proceeds onto another topic or area then that was all they wanted to hear and are moving on! Do a dry run in your head beforehand; think about your replies to areas such as participation in team sports, school and university clubs, cadets/UAS, previous demonstration of responsibility and leadership etc. Why do you want to be a pilot? Why do you want to be an officer? Which is more important? What if you fail pilot selection but are offered a ground branch? If you don't want to be a Nav, how do you explain it to the Navigator Sqn Ldr across the desk who is interviewing you? What do you think about recreational drugs?

There are loads more similar to the above. Current affairs and Service knowledge forms a fair chunk of the interview. If you haven't been in the ATC/CCF, or taken part in team sports, then have a reason why. The majority of candidates failing interview at OASC do so because they do not come across as being positive enough.

Good Luck. And try and relax when you're there. :cool:

ST

[joe2812]

http://www.timc.clara.net/raf.htm

http://home.clara.net/timc/OASCInfo.htm

http://www.airmenaircrew.freeserve.co.uk/oasc/oasc.htm

Are useful links.

Ensure your aptitude and fitness etc are up to an above-average standard and for the interview, know your current affairs. Aim for about 5 International events and 5 UK ones in depth. Some of these will be chosen to be developed further so make sure you know your facts. As stated above, if you don't know something, say so, don't waffle. The interviewer may give you some brief details and ask for your opinions etc.

Also know your CV off the top of your head. What quals do you have? Grades? Why did you pick those courses? Which did you enjoy? What aspects of each did you find easy and enjoyable? etc. We all have things we dont want to bring up i.e. periods of unemployment, imprisionment etc, but turn them into positives. What did these things teach you and what did you bring from them? Show what you've learned to become a better person, and make yourself come across as the best person for the job. In particular show off times and skills which show you possess the specific qualities they're looking for.

Start the interview with a handshake and as a wise man once said to me "eye contact and a 'how'd you do' goes a long way". If you do this, leave the same way with a handshake. Sit up straight in the chair, dont fiddle (hands in lap however tempting) and look the person you're speaking to in the eye. If you cant do it all the time, do it when they're speaking to you, it shows eagerness and interest.

Theres a few books out on how to improve interview technique, well worth buying... The one i have says that only 7% of your impact on an interview comes from what you say, the rest is appearance and position etc. Take that into account.

Best of luck to ya mate :ok:

[nightrider1986]

Thanks guys, I appreciate you taking the time to reply. I've taken on board what you've told me and looked at the websites, and hopefully I'll make it through this time.

Thanks again

[nickdearden]

If / when you get through to part 2 and get onto the syndicate work, the biggest piece of advice I can think of is to be assertive. Don't sit back and let someone else take control of the group (especially when you're leading it).
The mistake I made when I came to do my task was not being 100% sure what to do when I got stumped by an obstacle. Make sure you have a plan of attack, don't leave yourself halfway through a task looking stupid.
If you haven't done this already then you're a bit screwed now, but be as fit as possible. Minimum is 9.10 on the bleep test, but aim for 10 or 11.

good luck

Nick

[ozzieb88]

Hello,

Im 16 just want to ask the RAF pilots in here is it worth it? joinign the RAF as a pilot, the fun? the not so fun the whole package basically.

i am a ex air cadet, left at 15 at the rank of Sgt. I had work experiance at BAE systems at warton got to put missiles on the Eurofighter, tornado, and harrier! Even saw the first flight of the first Eurofighter that would be delivered to the RAF! this was feb last year.

Neways all info would be great.

[BEagle]

Nope.

Stupid enough to use illegal substances = not wanted as military aircrew. End of story.

Don't like it? Tough - shouldn't have wrecked your chances. Pass the word around amongst others likely to have weak enough characters not to be able to say no to drugs.

[mbga9pgf]

Hard work at times, challenging, but most definately worth it. Its the only job I ever wanted to do and still is....

Great bunch of chaps to work with, exciting but demanding, far better than anything on offer on civvy street (bar F1 driver possibly :-) ).

Oh and the pay aint too bad either, although I would suggest that doing it for the money is not worth it...

[UncleFester]

Go for it. Its the best sort of flying there is! I know. I did over 42 years and some 12000 hours in 20 different types. Yes it is bloody hard work, frustrating at times dealing with blunties, but...you get to play hard, make lifetime mates and see parts of the world you wouldn't otherwise get to see. Mind you, not all of them in 5* luxury. Even with the contracting RAF there are still the opportunities to progress or keep flying.

Push for what you want, not what they offer, and keep trying, don't take no for an answer. It took me three goes, but from me being an aircraft apprentice to finishing up as a unit test pilot shows anyone can make a go of it.
Good luck!:ok:

[adr]

Jess, you gave what reads to me like a masterful, cogent, well-argued overview, but I'd like to add something to it.

There is a point, I believe, in trying to see if someone who seeks the Queen's Commission is easily led, or whether they're capable of standing by their own standards even under pressure.

So I'd make a distinction between these two cases: "I never liked the idea, but all my friends were taking it, so I did have a go, but I don't do it any more."
"As a youngster, I never saw anything wrong with it, so I did try it. But now I've matured a little, my attitude has changed, and I've not taken anything for the last two years." adr

[Jeffrobertmarshall]

Been through OASC Pilot selection myself, got accepted. Just say yes you have tried it once but you condone its use etc.. no place for it in the military etc.. they aren't really all that bothered. Pay more attention to knowing everything about your own life (ie be able to answer their questions without hesitiation) and know lots about the RAF (eg they asked me what is special about the Merlin.... 3 engines, inflight refueling, full glass display). oh and show some physical courage in the hanger exercises, dont give up, be the first to volunteer to jump etc..

[Green Meat]

Yes, but the problem is where is the line drawn? In essence this takes us full circle back to littlepom's dilemma. Do you deny healthcare, or even a career with the RAF, to someone who has tried drugs for whatever reason then had the gumption to bin it? That being the case, we would also have to outlaw healthcare to those who have tried or are using alcohol or tobacco as a blanket ban.

Back to the original point of the thread, I would say that littlepom had better own up to it if asked on the grounds that he already has done at AFCO! BEagle, on a slightly cynical note I do actually wonder how many of your 'clean' and anti-drug UAS students were actually of that stance all the way through their lives to that point...

[6foottanker]

You could do a lot worse jobs than RAF aircrew! I love it, despite having been in the training system for nearly 5 years. It is hard work, you don't get a fast jet seat by pure ability alone. Money's good, you make loads of really good mates, and you still get to travel the world, well, till Uncle Tony decides we don't need aar of an air force.
Speak to the careers bods, they can lead you in the right direction, though now is a pretty bad time to join, as there aren't many slots available. You might want to consider going to uni, to do a degree that you WANT to do (they don't need you to do engineering!). Whilst you are there, the recruitment system will hopefully sort itself out and we'll need pilots again.
You could also join a UAS, and find out what the RAF is really like (don't pretend any of that air cadets stuff was worth much). Who knows, you might find that you don't like it, and taking a permanent commission is quite a big commitment.

But be positive, get out there and get some info. Your post here is a good start! And keep working hard at school/college, because no qualifications, no job, don't think that because you have 2 arms and 2 legs, you are automatically guaranteed to pass the medicals. In which case, you'll need a back up.

There, lecture over.:ok:

[Hueymeister]

Don't regret a minute of the 15 years I've done, and 4000+ hrs on 10 different types....served with all sorts of units all over the world..........but you've really got to want to do it..and some.

Be motivated, know your onions and be smart.

Good Luck

Huey

[littleme]

Hey guys,

Needing some advice from all of you already 'in the know'! Basically I attended OASC last year and was unsuccessful (apparently missed out by the narrowest of margins, so I can't have been that far off) and they asked me to re-apply again in a year, which I am doing. I was told that I could not have scored any higher in part I (or the fitness) but part II my leadership let me down. What exactly are they looking for in the leadership?? I thought the whole point of IOT was to teach you leadership?! Does anyone have any good tips as to how I can convince the boarding officers in 2 months time?

I cannot go aircrew as I am not tall enough therefore I am applying for ground branches; Supply, Admin & Flt Ops. Not interested in ATC or Fighter Control - despite numerous attempts from the careers officer to get me to do so saying there's far more chance of getting in if I apply for one of those branches. However, I want to spend 16 years in the Air Force and don't want to spend it in a branch that does not interest me - am I right in sticking to my guns about this?? He suggested I put it down and if I get it, change once I get onto IOT - but the likely-hood of that is about err...0%! Obviously this is not an ideal time to apply at the moment, but at the end of the day the Air Force HAVE to keep recruiting despite defence cuts & I cannot let this get in my way.

Wondering if you have any advice for me on how (2nd time round) I can convince them of how much I want this...to live my dream as an officer in the Royal Air Force.

Little me. :)

[Arm out the window]

Sorry mate, if you had to ask that question, I wouldn't bother!!

[joe2812]

The RAF have quotas to fill. If they need one thing more than another, naturally they'll try and get you to change your mind.

Dont let them pursuade you with the story of how its easier to swap branches once you're in, because it's not!. If you want something that bad, you won't change your mind that easilly, and being determined enough to work for it is part of what they're after.

Have a couple of options, but if you're being offered something you really don't want, don't be stupid enough to accept it. Air Force life is great, as im sure most will tell you, but if its a branch you dont want, then its just another 15 years of unhappy work, when you could be on Civvie Street doing something more appealing to you.

:ok:

[airborne_artist]

Have a look at this from the Army's RCB site

practice planning exercise (http://www.atra.mod.uk/atra/RCB/mainboard/planex/040804awinteraid.htm) - there's a model answer at the end, - it should take 45 minutes.

Candidates are then expected to present their solution, and take questions.

[ArmyBarmy]

Little You

You are correct that IOT will teach you leadership (techniques) but OASC must first see the potential. You only have a short time to make a good impression so use it wisely! You must get your point across but not appear bolshy or belligerent (there will be plenty of others who will be that!). In the command tasks, demonstrate confidence and determination to succeed - do not worry if you have no idea how to complete a task, and do not be afraid to ask your fellow syndicate members if they have ideas - the crucial bit here is that you then take that idea and run with it (giving credit where due!)...above all, maintain a sense of humour and smile like you are enjoying it :D The DS are human!

Good luck

[PPRuNeUser0172]

I am afraid i tend to agree with the guy above! It sounds as though you have seen a bit of how the RAF works with the ATC so surely you should be as keen as mustard because quite frankly, if you are'nt then dont bother.

In answer to your question, it is a great "job" but therein lies the secret, it isnt a job, it is a way of life, and a very good one too.

DS;)

[PPRuNeUser0172]

Do a search for OASC and I am sure you will find enough information to keep you busy until the interview

Good luck

DS

[Navaleye]

To get back to Ozzib88's question the answer is yes, of course it is worth joining up. ATC experience is a great first stepping stone. There is a lot of seemingly pointless BS to military life, but look past that and you'll see a great career ahead.

[joe2812]

Have to go along with Arm out the window on that, not exactly a spur of the moment career the Armed Forces.

[Mad_Mark]

Have to agree with what has been said above, if you need to ask then maybe it ain't the thing for you.

Also, as it is bound to be asked if you go for selection, why did you leave the ATC at only 15 :confused:

Mad Mark!!! :mad:

[ozzieb88]

I really did enjoy my time at the ATC was brillian loved it all but i had to leave due to me moving abroad!! (im back now)

The question as in worth it was mainly about how much flying time, living on the base? that stuff and if there is much or will be much recruitment going on. Not just to see if everything else fails il join the RAF. It has been a dream since 13 ie ATC.

Just incase your wondering why i havent rejoined, i have to work afta skool to fund my PPL. otherwise i would have been straight back to the ATC!!

[Pete O'Tewbe]

littlepom

What does "condone" mean?

[allan907]

Apply by all means but I would strongly suggest that you use the time between now and then in learning how to write (and probably speak) correct English - not textspeak.

You're young and will eventually learn that us nasty grown ups (particularly those at RAF Recruiting offices, OASC and IOT) are rather partial to those who can use their own language correctly. Might be good enough for the playground/pub in Crawley but not for the Sergeants' or Officers' Messes.

[eagerbeaver]

i would apply whatever your feelings, i was never made oasc in the end for a few reasons and regret it every day.

Dont worry and be put off by people who say becuase you are questioning joining that its not for, its a way of life etc etc. You need to very carefully consider what you are about to do, it requires more commitment than anything else in life because it is a way of life and you must really want to become part of the RAF.

Attend the filter interview study hard attend OASC and lets see what happens.

Remember, you dont have to join if you dont want to. Although if i could do back two years i would.

[BoraBora007]

No. Id advise against it. Talk to any young guy who is in IOT, or has completed IOT, or anyone in flying training.

Defence cuts and management errors have made the RAF a tough going career.

I know one guy from my UAS, indeed our senior student. Who went fast jet. So he did eft, bfjt and then got chopped pilot altogether nearing the end of valley.

Thats a right slap in the face. :ouch:

[Capacity_Saturated]

Ozzieb88,

Not the most inspirational of responses to your thread so far and I shall endeavour to be a little more positive.

At your age, having any idea of a future career is better than 99.9% of your peers and it is a good age to reach a well reasoned conclusion of the matter. It doesn't appear to me that you are making a 'spur of the moment' decision to apply to the armed forces as you say you have been thinking about an RAF career since 13 and have made progress towards that goal by joining the ATC and by working for a PPL. I do not believe that to consider a career in the armed forces means that you must run at it regardless of the drawbacks, and I do believe that it is a large step that must be considered. Weighing up the pros and cons of big decisions is a skill that all armed forces officers must posess. However, that said (and this is where I must support the comments already made) once you have decided on an armed forces career, you must give it everything you have from the day you apply to the day you leave the service. One day your life, and the lives of your friends around you may depend on you doing your job correctly, which means you have had to work damn hard through every minute of training.

Whether you should apply or not I cannot say. Even if we knew all of your personal circumstances, we do not know you personally. There is a certain personality that suits the armed forces (face fits etc). You must be committed and respectable as well as having enough personality and enough of a sense of humour to get along with the people around you. As 'arm out of the window' has said before, only you can decide if a life in the armed forces is for you (and it is a life!).

Would I recommend it? Well I am only in the beginning of the training system and as BoraBora says there are drawbacks and people less than satisfied, but for every dissatisfied customer I know in IOT, after IOT and in the training system, I could point you to at least ten more who have never looked back. What I will say is that you will never find the opportunity to work with such a great group of people in another career (assuming of course you are that type of person).

I would recommend finding out more about life in the RAF. In my experience, cadets was a terrible indicator of what life in the service is like and at times only made me less enthusiastic (drill twice a week was about all my squadron staff managed for my five years and when I tried to organise stuff myself my CO was the proverbial brick wall). Write to your AFCO (In the queen's english of course :E) and ask for a chance to see the service working. Try and visit a UAS or something but this is a decision you have to work out for yourself.

All the best

Caps:}

[joe2812]

The idea of seeing service life up front is a good one. Places such as Marham do good work experience placements, and if you write a nice letter to your local base it could maybe (and i stress the maybe), be arranged.

http://www.rafmarham.co.uk/relations/work_ex/work_ex-list.htm

:ok:

[Farfrompuken]

Interesting that people refer to 'Flashbacks'.

The evidence suggests that any 'flashback' is a memory response triggered by audio/visual illusions to which we are all subject. It is because the user has had heightened awareness to these phenomena during their drug-experience/fix, that when they see them once 'sober', they associate this with their drug experience.

There was no evidence (at least by 1994) that any drug remains in the brain long enough to cause symptoms long after the event. Lots of false information on that subject propelled by poorly educated 'authorities'.

Longer-term effect of Psychadelic/stimulant drugs is unknown. Lots of talk of altering brain structure. Not good news for those who've taken NAPS, or inhaled pesticides,or eaten unwashed vegetable/fruit produce. All these contain chemicals that act on the brain synapses in similar ways to the above drugs. Gulf War Syndrome? BSE/CJD anyone??

Interestingly, cannabis abuse (and I'm talking habitual heavy use here) can have devastating effects on the individual. I know of an individual who has been left with Psychosis (Diagnosed as Schizophrenia; however it's drug induced psychosis really), and his motor/social skills are shot to pieces.

I somehow expect that this chap is to cannabis what an alcoholic is to booze: both extreme cases.

The bottom line, however, is that NO 'recreational' drug is compatible with flying. That includes cannabis, alcohol (how many accidents in the past?) and caffeine and all the other nasties.

Incase you're wondering about caffeine, it's truly dreadful. Appalling for concentration-heavy tasks, like flying, is likely to cause heart arrythmia (Sp?), migraines, poor sleep levels and may contribute to an individual's high stress levels. Most surprisingly, in one study, it had a greater mental debilitating effect than ALL other 'recreational' drugs, including LSD! Anectodal evidence backs this up.
Not surprisingly, the only documented positive effect of caffeine is to reduce the effects of caffeine withdrawal! The true concentration wonder-drug would be nicotine, so we should all patch up before flight!!

I'll stop now before I start boring myself too!!!:bored:

[6foottanker]

Don't accept anything that you don't want to do, it is very hard to change once they've got you. And definitely don't get sent down the bunker as Fighter Control unless you've thought 'Wow, I'd really like to do that job'.

As for leadership, learn to read and assimilate the given task, then delegate tasks to your team whilst retaining an overall control. This may involve you standing back to observe, and not even getting involved.
Make your instructions loud, clear and concise. Make sure your team know the plan, try not to leave them in any doubt what each of them have to do. Make your initial brief to the point, making sure that you don't leave yourself in a situation where your credibility as a leader is called into doubt (ie make sure you think of different ways around the same problem, so if your 1st plan goes wrong, you can adapt and overcome, without even batting an eyelid!)
Keep on top of your team throughout, without becoming annoyingly involved. There may be stronger characters than youin the team, so get them involved in the thick of it. It might prevent them trying to taking over, and help your credibility. It's managing who you've got to get the job done with minimum fuss Enjoy yourself, you never know, it might be catching!

Lecture over! Hope something of use there??!!:uhoh:

[DummyRun]

If only,
What If'
Maybe If I had only tried;
You've really answered you're own question.
And this applies to all Mil wannabes-
You've got 35 yrs, spend it all with the airlines?
Fly a fast jet?
Do it for real in a helo?
Land a C-130 on a beach?
Never have regrets.....

[mightyai24]

Not sure if it is worth it if you're not sure, BUT if you are, then definately. Do it, you'll love it, as so many of the threads on Pprune are testament to. You will meet your best friends, have the best time, in whatever aircraft you end up on, and drink more than you ever thought possible:) Yes, it's difficult at the moment, and doubtless becoming more so, but if you want it enough you should go for it; otherwise you'll only think "what if". Work hard, play hard:p

[littleme]

Thanks for all the advice guys, I just have to a) be positive b) keep calm and c) convince the boarding officers! (Easier said than done going on last year!).

I think knowing where I fell down last year is making it even more nerve-wrackng on the build-up to this year as I know I'll be so conscious of it. :ugh:

With the current reduction in commissions to be handed out these days, accepting an offer in a branch that does not 'float my boat' is somewhat tempting. However, spending 16 years in a trade I know I wouldn't enjoy would be taking a gamble I don't think I would have the balls to accept! It's a difficult one!:hmm:

6foottanker - I think I will be taking your lecture with me to read over and over the night before the hangar exercises for some focus! Am on a visit to 'an airfield in the Cotswolds' this Monday...who knows we may cross paths and we wouldn't even know it!

Thanks again for the advice everyone.

Littleme

[tailchase]

Littleme

Having myself fallen into the OASC (Biggin Hill) trap of being convinced by the DS that I had a higher aptitude for FC than ATC (my first choice) and being too tall for the diminutive Jet Provost, despite passing for GD(P) and (N), I tried to change branch once I had graduated from Cranwell and on my holding post - it seldom happens and you wouldn't want to have to go back to OASC for reselection if you were unsuccessful in training and if it had been evident that you hadn't been heart and soul in trg.

I was 18 when I went to BH and still look back and think how did I get through compared to many of the candidates that I know failed selection. The main thing is to be confident, this is mirrored throughout all of the above posts, and while being assessed as a leader, be a part of the team.

However, I wouldn't encourage anyone to make any form of career decision on selecting any branch based upon brochures and AFCO-speak - no matter how good and honest the staff, you are making a life choice. Ask the CIO for a visit to a working unit (they used to be called realistic job preview visits) - in your case I suggest to a main flying base where you can meet officers from all branches in the workplace. This normally involves staying overnight in the mess and visiting any areas of interest to you as well as getting more info on training. If nothing else, you will catch up on many OASC stories on selection boards and give you a chance to discuss issues with the RAF outside of the AFCO/OASC.

Good luck

[Hueymeister]

You've really go to want to do it, so did I; be prepared , however, for your tastes to change...15 yrs ago I was single with no children, now I need to spend more time at home with the snappers and don't want to mix it away so often...but these days you really have to REALLY WANT TO DO IT. Best of luck.
HM

[Lucy_L]

just wondered what the attitude to female pilots was,
i'm in the same situation as ozzieb88, but as i'm a girl i thought they wouldn't let you fly jets so i never gave it a thought. now i'm beginning to reconsider, i've just got my PPL and really like to fly but i don't know if the RAF is for me, personally i'm a bit scared of signing my life away for 12 years. i'm 17 now and i really want to fly as a career, but cannot decide between civilian or military.

i will be joining my local UAS when i go to university, and give it more thought then

[saudipc-9]

Lucy,
The RAF does allow you to fly fast jets as does a number of other air force's around the world. 12 years might seem like a long time to you right now but it only applies if you complete your training. Those 12 years seem to go by very quickly when you love what you are doing.
As for Military vs Civilian, I guess it would depend if you like flying at 250ft/450+kts dropping bombs or at 35'000ft/450+kts eating an inflight meal:p . There are good pilots and challanges to both. ie evading SAM's or not spilling sauce on your shirt:E

[6foottanker]

Loads of female aircrew in the RAF, and ssshhh, there are quite a few who show us blokes the way it should be done! I'd go as far as saying the vast majority of front line squadrons have female aircrew as a valuable part of their team, whether FJ, Rotary or Multis. Even the Harrier boys have had to accept theirs is not a unisex bastion any more! So go for it, the male/female thing will not hold you back in any way.
Oh, there is the fact that during training, there will be loads of fine young gentlemen around......but don't tell your boyfriend!:ok:

[frodo_monkey]

As a 21 year old gent in the midst of flying training (though only a WSO if any 'master race' would like to take the mick ;) ), I would thoroughly recommend joining the RAF any day of the week!

Theres no getting away from it being hard work, but the rewards far outweigh the bad times - IOT, anything to do with the blunties etc. ...

There was some comment about the current 'chop' culture earlier in this forum - how about the guy who went FJ, did the Canada thing then went onto the GR4, only to lose his wings when he was chopped? Thats a hell of a slap.

So in summary, if its what you really want to do (think carefully about this), then go for it and you'll never look back!

Frodo_Monkey

"Air defence - hoorah" :D

[Biggus]

frodo-monkey

Just a thought, not trying to be negative here. If you are half way through WSO training, and are pro Air Defence, bear in mind that, if you go F3, by the time you finish WSO training and your OCU then you will have only one tour on F3s before they are totally replaced by Typhoon! It is coming, albeit late.


Everyone

For all readers, with regard to the general theme of this thread. I started a poll on pprune months ago, which I am sure you could search for, with a title along the lines of 'Would you encourage your child to join the military'. Many of the replies, which ran to several pages, were discussions as to whether or not it was worth joining. I would recommend it as a read if this subject is of interest to you.

No doubt someone more computer literate than I can type in the thread name here to give more easy access than resorting to a search.

[adr]

No doubt someone more computer literate than I can type in the thread name here to give more easy access than resorting to a search. Just click here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=82439). Glad to be of service. :)

adr

[frodo_monkey]

Biggus,

I most certainly will only be getting one tour on the F3 - after that its (fingers-crossed) go over to the GR4 or go hat in hand to the Job Centre...

Though with the recent cuts in airframes and crews for the muddies, and 1100 nav backsides to fit only 200 seats by circa 2010 (I'm led to believe), does anybody have the McDonalds phone number?

"D'ya want fries with that?"

Frodo Monkey

"Air defence - hoorah"

Ooh, forgot to say on my last - I\'m mid-OCU at the moment, and enjoying the beautifully-written work of the fiction that is the F3s FRCs...

Frodo Monkey

[chrisburden21]

Anybody going up to Cranwell for OASC in the next couple of months? specifically 24th October.

[joe2812]

Not on topic... no im not basically, im a few stages behind you, but is possible i'd like to hear what is like and how you got on etc? If you wouldnt mind that is.

Best of luck for the 24th :ok:

[woody0381]

I'm due down at Cranwell, but not until Oct 31st.

[semisonic]

Hi All,

Just looking for some genuine insider knowledge. Having graduated Uni and spent two successful years on the UAS, I have an OASC interview (for pilot) in the middle of November.

Now I know things are tough (only 4 of the recently graduated Linton lot went on to Valley!), so is there even a pilot place still up for grabs this year?!?!? Do I stand a chance of being considered for next year's intake?

Many thanks,

Semisonic

[BigGrecian]

Recruitment is slow at the moment, and competition is stiff. Rumour has it that we've recruited for the next year or so, but OASC is still running so there must be places available Providing you've got the goods, you shouldn't have a problem.

[semisonic]

Thanks..i feared next year's recruiting had begun already!

[BigGrecian]

I should imagine that it has to a certain extent, recruitment is an ongoing process filling multiple IOTs well in advance.

[crazyhorse3611]

i'am currently going to oasc for WSOP, and i'am looking for any advice on preperation for the app test and what it contains? any help at all would be great,
thanks in advance.

[joe2812]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150251

Here's one I did earlier.

Wonderful thing the search tool.

[PPRuNeUser0172]

two top tips buddy:

1) Aptitude
2) Preparation

There is loads of good gen on this site, do a search and you will still be reading it at xmas

Good Luck

DS;)

[Pontius Navigator]

Strange, I thought you would have been briefed at the careers office. I believe they have a workbook with lots of time and distance questions, basic tactics etc.

What you need to do is know what is going on in the world and where in the world it is going on. Don't ignore the UK. Make sure you know where the cities are. Head start if you know where the RAF is too.

One tip, in 6 minutes the distance you travel is one tenth of your speed in miles per hour.

[semisonic]

Hi all.

I have seen and read all previous OASC threads on here, and you have all been really informative..so one more question!!

What are the three major roles of the RAF??

I have heard the roles spoken of in more than 10 ways (air defence, ground attack, air transport, SAR, close air support etc..), but not in three. What are they??

Many thanks,

[JessTheDog]

What are the three major roles of the RAF??

Delivery of Equal Opportunities training, participation in the MoD Corporate Communications strategy, maintenance of budgetary procedures.

;)

On a serious note there are clearly defined roles to Air Power (a useful term to remember) along these lines:

Strategic Air Offensive - strategic bombing a la WW2.
Counter Air Campaign (Offensive/Defensive) - destroying enemy air (and ground to air) assets.
Air Interdiction - destroying enemy infrastructure to prevent enemy armed forces being deployed.
Close Air Support (sometimes alongside as Battlefield Air Interdiction) - self-explanatory!

There are more roles but I can\'t remember them! These may be out of date, as the flavour of the month seems to be "Effects Based" warfare and intergration of firepower from all 3 services and environments ie. bombing, standoff missiles (air and sea launched) and use of artillery in a co-ordinated manner. Also, jointery is very popular - the grouping of helicopters into Joint Helicopter Command.

I\'d recommending looking at at the Strike Command Group structure to define the "three" major roles: Delivery of Air Power (1 Gp), Air Transport/Air-to-Air Refuelling (2 Gp), ISTAR (Intelligence, Surveillance Target Acquisition and Radar (or is it reconnaisance) ...I think... (3 Gp). 1 Gp - air defenders and mud-movers, 2 Gp - tankers and transports, 3 Gp - E3 Sentry airborne radar aircraft, ASTOR airborne ground-scanning radar etc..

The good thing nowadays is that the information is very easy to glean from sources such as the RAF website.

[theboywide]

You can get all that stuff from the RAF Air Power Doctrine (AP3000). You can get a copy from the RAF website under publications and it gives you an order address.

[Green Meat]

Mike et al

Always a tricky situation supporting other syndicate members. On the one hand it is certainly admirable and prepares well for IOT, however in essence you are in competition with other syndicate members for a slot (particularly these days)- and OASC is the place where you need to sell oneself but, on the other hand, without demonstrating an utter lack of teamwork.

Tricky, isn't it!

GM

[scotsman]

Attended OASC recently and got a further consideration letter.. Have to wait for the December Board to find out what the outcome will be. Anyone else in the same position?
For anyone in the know - a few questions...
When is the December board?
Whats the chances of getting the same outcome again? (ie wait for the next board - presumably February)?

[joe2812]

Not an outright welcome letter but its better than the sod-off-and-never-come-back one!

Congrats thus far :ok:

[woody0381]

There will be people in better positions than myself to answer that, (and please correct me if necessary), but I have been told that a further consideration letter can be roughly translated to; "You have satisfied the required criteria needed to obtain a place on the next IOT course, but we (the OASC Board) are going to hang around and see if someone better turns up - as there are a limited number of Officer Training slots available."

[teeteringhead]

woody0381 has it about right; put into context, the "further consideration" letter is about the second or third best you can get out of a total of 5 or 6, ranging from "When can you start" to "Never darken our doors again".

Could be out of date info, but true when last involved about 3 or 4 years ago.....

[kippermate]

Due to the number of slots available at IOT, especially for pilot, the RAF can afford to be choosy. Consequently, the chances of getting a letter saying 'Well done. You're in.' are slim. If you are being held for 'the sift' then you have probably done reasonably well, but OASC are waiting to see if anyone better, and more competitive for a slot at IOT, comes along. If you are unsuccessful this time they may put you in the sift again.

Unfortunately for those aspiring for a career as a Service pilot, it is most definately a buyers market.

Good luck, anyway.

:ok:

kipper.

[me_chambers]

Hi i was wondering if anyone could let me know the cut off height for being a military pilot.

[BigGrecian]

It eventually depends on the aircraft you will fly. However, I know there is an initial height maximum when undertaking the medical at OASC - I will try and find out on Monday.
There are some guys who fly fast jets taller than 6 foot if that helps?

An extract by Squadron Leader Mark Byrne from the BBC website says:
There are a number of physiological factors that determine overall suitability as a combat pilot in fast-jet aircraft. Height is not the full story, rather there are certain key measurements that will determine whether it is safe to fly in a certain type of aircraft.

In particular, the length of the upper leg (from buttock to knee) is critical in ejection seat equipped aircraft as it would sting like crazy if you had to eject in an emergency and shaved off the lower parts of your legs!

Seriously though, it is not just height that is important, body weight is also a factor which is taken into consideration.

[airborne_artist]

BG is right, but in practice 6.3/6.4 seems to be the normal maximum.

[Vage Rot]

I was accepted at 6'3", as said above: it's buttock to knee length that's most important. Otherwaise you end up being knee-capped if you eject!

I think that as long as you are OK for the training types then your height would not stop you from being recruited - It might restrict your choice of aircraft types out of training though.

Of course, if you are a 7' gorilla then you won't fit in anything!!

[cobaltfrog]

I was accepted at 6' 5ins although, I ended up down the rotary route. I think the important bit, as has been said, is your buttock to knee length. There was an American on 899 a few years back who was 6' 6 (obviously his nickname was Tiny!!)

Where there is a will etc...

[Feck]

I'm 6'4" and fly FJ. PM me if you want more info.

[Pontius Navigator]

Its not just leg length that matters as I know someone who had relatively short legs but very long body. He too had limited fit as the seat would not go down far enough to get his head in the right place.

[Lord Daddy Flash]

I was in exactly the same situation in March this year, got through OASC then was 'evaluated' in a 'Selection Meeting' in May. Needless to say I didn't get in which has turned out well for me now, but at the time I was gutted.

I've heard all sorts but mainly;
they're taking about the top <1% of pilot applicants,
they're cutting 8,000 jobs RAF-wide,
pilots fresh out of IOT have holds between 6-12 months,
some FJ pilots are getting though training then being offered redundency.

Just a few things, but worth consideration none-the-less.

I wish you all the best.

LDF

[Sinker]

Pontius Navigator is quite right and it might even be me he is talking about. My sitting height was too big for the Gnat, so I was not accepted for pilot training, even though I was really only interested in flying heavies.

When I tried to re-role, the safety equippers had to fit a new dinghy attachment strap on my LSJ in order to lengthen it by about 3 inches.

Your body proportions have to be a fairly normal.

[sarboy w****r]

I'm 6' 5" and a RW pilot. I had a look at the limits when I joined and I think I'm pretty close.

SBW

[airborne_artist]

The limiting factor when I joined the RN in 78 was the Bulldog - so anyone who was 6.2 and above was put into a car and taken to SUAS at Hamble for a full and free check!

[PH98]

I'm pretty sure that the current limiting type is the Hawk. Certainly, a couple of friends who were on the limits got winched out of a hawk on the ejection rod to make sure they wouldn't knee-cap themselves using the loud handle. One of my friends can't fly the Puma because he is too tall but he can fly al FJ's.

It's not really an overall height thing. If you were perfectly on the upper limit for everything you could potentially be about 6'6" but it's a bit unlikely. I'm 5'10" and my legs are nearly too long and my body nearly too short. Consequently I have to have the seat nearly all the way up but the pedals all the way back.

[havick]

Anyone else looking like they will be going to officer training on the Jan intake for Navy, or feb intake for airforce?

[chrisburden21]

Hi everyone,

Just a quick question. I recently attended OASC, appyling for Pilot, and received a letter notifying me that my application will be reviewed by a panel in December.

My question is, does anybody know what the Phase2 Medical involves? and if i am asked to attend a Phase2 Medical, on the basis i pass, will i be accepted?

Any info related to this would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Chris

[PH98]

The review thing means you've been put forward into a pool because they're not going to offer you anything just yet. If they come back in December and ask you to do a part 2 med you'll have to do and ECG, chest x-ray, blood test and an EEG (brain scan).

Assuming you pass that you should be in, unless the system has changed. They should send you a letter saying that you've provisionally been selected for pilot pending the outcome of a part 2 medical if they're going to accept you.

[BigGrecian]

PH98 is right about the medical and assuming your successful you are normally accepted pending Medical and Security clearances.

You should be aware recruitment is tight at the moment, and this is already evident by the fact that you haven't been boarded yet. They have probably boarded you in December as there were no spaces available so they'll wait till the next board.

Good Luck - and let us know whether you were successful.

[scotsman]

Hi,

I'm in exactly the same position as you, - reviewed in December and I know of at least 3 others. I know that there aren't a lot of spaces up for grabs but there seems to be alot of us hanging on waiting for an answer.

No-one on my OASC was given an outright yes and only two were put forward for further review. I also know of one person who went to OASC in June, was put forward for further review in August, then put forward for review in October and now is being reviewed again in December!! I don't know how long they can keep stringing you on for but that seems to be rediculous.

Good luck to us both.

Scotsman..

[littleme]

I also received that letter, however, I am not applying for aircrew. I wonder what the situation is for people applying for ground branches? Any ideas? Guess it all finally boils down to how many slots they have left on the next IOT course?

Cheers

LM

[amb_211085]

The RAF have a backlog of Aircrew waiting for training, however as the FAA use the RAFs resources for a large chunk of their training, does that mean FAA guys and gals are waiting for similar periods of time or are they pushed through as they are not RAF?

[5 Forward 6 Back]

In the FJ world, they're pushed through.

[BigGrecian]

The FAA guys do initial training at JEFTS where no RAF pilots are currently trained. There isn't really a back-log there at the moment. Once they get streamed (basically Rotary unless your good) you go on the next course - alright for some!

[The mother alligator]

Seems that a lot of people have been put on the shortlist! When I was on the shortlist, no one else from my board (except ground branch applicants) were put on the shortlist. What has been said above is correct, I have heard of people being strung along for as long as 9 months, and then told no. Don't worry, you've shown the board that you can do it, they just need to see what slots they have - it's simply out of your hands now.
Btw, they no longer do the EEG in the part 2 medical - unless they started doing it again in the last few months.
Any other Q's, PM me, as I've been through it all recently.
TMA

[PileUp Officer]

I recieved a similar letter back in the day. It said that i hadn't been selected at that board but they would review my application at the next board in about 2 months.
I got about 3 or 4 of these letters about every 2 months just keeping me hanging on, then the day my A-Level results came out they rang me up and asked me what i got. Two days later I got the letter with my IOT start date.
The letter you got seems to just be a standard letter which they use to keep you around whilst they decide whether they have space or if you're good enough.

It is a harsh time to apply but I reckon you still have a good chance if you've got what it takes.
Good Luck!

[semisonic]

I just completed OASC this week (Pilot). My best hope is obviously the next review board, does anyone know when this is? Are they monthly?

As they say in cricket..."waiting..."

[PPRuNeUser0172]

Good luck guys, it is worth the wait, even though there are lots of people around here who will tell you it isnt what it used to be etc. I am sure things have changed a lot, but it is still a great job and offers good prospects when you look at what is going on in civvy street.

All the best with your applications

DS

[littleme]

Can't be certain but I believe the board meets every 2 months... Sounds to me like the short list is becoming the long list! Oh well...nothing we can do now, it's all down to the board and what they decide.

LM

[gingles]

can anyone confirm the scores and banding for results in the bleep test?
I got to level 12 4 and was told it was "good". I was under the impression that "excellent" was above 11 4 or thereabouts?

[semisonic]

i went to OASC last week and got 12 3.

This was good. There is no more excellent.

We tried to get exact levels off one of the borading officers, but he was being secretive.

I was told on my UAS that above 10.6 was excellent, but after being at OASC last week they have clearly changed something.

The fitness test has its categories (poor, need of work, ok and good - something like that), which are worth 1,2,3 and 4 points respectively. So if you get into the top category it doesnt matter how long you keep running for you will only get 4 points. But this is not to say that running until you drop will not be noticed by the PTI staff. Just do your best basically.

Any more questions and I have fresh experience!!

[chrisburden21]

I attended OASC in October and got 12 4 told it was good,

There was a guy who got 12 9 and told it was good, so it seems excellent is not a category anymore.

CB

[BigGrecian]

Well for the RAF fitness test we only have to reach 9.10. The highest on IOT was 10.2, but they now use the mile and half at IOT, where you have to get under 10mins 30 secs if your male. You also have to 13 pressups in a minute and 30 sit ups (something like that) in two minutes.

The fitness test is important - if you are weak in one area but good in fitness, the higher score the better. However, a rounded individual is more suitable!

Good Luck!

[FEWNCOP]

The expected standard through IOT has always been (and still is to the best of my knowledge) 2 levels above that of your pass mark for your age.

So, for your average 19 yr old, the pass mark would be 11.10.

I was a bit of a fat knacka through IOT and I got 12.3, so don't be put off people. It's not as bad as you may think.

Good luck to you all

[Si Clik]

An Enquiry,

How would the guys here feel about a letter from the RN.

We are still actively recruiting for Harriers and Helicopters (and of course the JSF).

We are taking about 60% of the current RAF figures at present.

Its not all sea shanties and rum!

PM for more details.

:hmm:

[SSSETOWTF]

Don't know if it's any consolation, but I got one of those letters back in 94. Having been turned down flat on my first 2 applications I was pretty happy to be put into the sift. Back then it took them 7 months to decide I was worth inviting to OASC and another 10 to decide I was good enough to join.

I know the whole thing totally sucks when all you want to do is get your mitts on a Tin Can, but it's worth it if/when it all works out. Best of luck to you all.

[bad livin']

Si Clik speaks the truth with two tongues. I've worn the light and dark blue and knowing what I know now would have gone straight for the Andrew. Want to be treated with dignity, respect, humour? Don't join the Air Force.

Besides...they look up to the Senior Service...and they know it ;-)

[joe2812]

Without starting a new thread...

How does the FAA and Uni Air Sqns work? I know UAS is part of the RAF Reserve but i'm just wondering how it's viewed?

[semisonic]

I can tell you about the UAS.

The UAS is RAFVR and is primarily for pilots. About 20 are recruited every year and the idea is that with no obligation on either part, the student can get an idea of the RAF life and career, and the RAF can get to pick and choose. All UAS cadets have to go to OASC like anyone else to get a comission and their time on the UAS is under constant scrutiny, so by no means an easy ride!!

Hope that helps some.

[joe2812]

SS - thanks for that :ok:

Think I perhaps phrased it badly. What I meant to say was how does the FAA and UAS work together. As far as i'm aware the navy don't have an equivalent?

[AlphaSierra]

Do you know about the URNUs? (Uni RN Unit).

In case you haven't:- It's the closest you'll come to a Navy UAS equiv. Unfortunately the only flying they get done is on special one offs, or on a couple of competitive summer camp slots (where an URNU member or two will be selected to swap places with a UAS member for a few weeks a year). Unfortunate that is, if you are looking to fly. If not, I hear the URNUs have just as much fun and opportunities as any UAS, if not more!

That said, I would be interested to hear answers to your question, being an ex UAS flyer who's going to the AIB soonish.

A

[Flik Roll]

IIRC someone i know of got Navy Sponsorship or something similar and is flying on a UAS. Can you do that!?

[semisonic]

Hi guys,

got my OASC debrief and looking at the aptitudes column, what is CRB??

Many thanks.

[littleme]

Your CRB score is something to do with how you're mind works. It's quickness and ability/agility to work things out. Something definately psychological anyway - hence why they have psychologists at OASC. Following my attendance last year at OASC I was told exactly what it meant as I had a low score. Have clearly forgotton the actual definition but scored much higher this time round than last! Will find out for you in the New Year and let you know - assuming you haven't found out by then of course.

Cheers. :ok:

[bad livin']

semisonic, interesting - when i applied originally in 1998, myself and the others i was with, although successful, were told only if we'd passed or failed aptitude (i did the tests for the FAA). having passed for pilot and observer i joined the RAF as a pilot and was chopped at the end of JEFTS. i didn't get any more detailed info (including the fact i'd probably have been better suited to being a nav) until i was chopped, generally treated like trash, and thinned out onto the streets. i'm now in the RN and wish I'd come straight here!

best of luck
BL

[littleme]

Right...have so far managed to find out that CRB stands for - Critical Reasoning Battery. Am still on the case as to how they are marking this though. I.e. what's a good score and what's not!

Will post again on my next find!

Cheers

LM :ok:

[ozzieb88]

Hi,

I started the ATC about 2 years ago on my 13th birthday, always wanted to join the RAF and fly. I quit the ATC last year to get a part time job to fund my PPL.

Nothings holding me back, however the racism in the army (tv,news etc) has got me concerned. Im a british asian, ethnic origin indian.

How much racism is in the RAF? because thats the only thing holding me back, i aint scared its jsut i dont want 12 years long service to wake up to a bull**** life

all info will help

oz

[Pilgrim101]

Go for it son, serve your Country and flip the x% racists (I won't say f:mad: k because you are so young).

They're everywhere you go in life, it's your job to stick a finger up their nose whatever career you choose !

:ok:

[opso]

In all seriousness, ozzieb88, in my experience racism in the RAF is no worse than in the civilian world and compared to some of the places my wife (pure civvy) has worked, the RAF is better! Don't let racism be a reason for putting you off the RAF. There will be a fair share of bull**** in the services for anyone, but it is unlikley to be any worse for you than for anyone else.

[BigGrecian]

There were two indian guys on IOT at the same time as me.
They didn't experience any racism at all and they're great blokes.

Only trouble is the Flt Sgt had trouble telling them apart. :D

It doesn't matter what background your from, as long as your willing to do the job etc.

Go fot it!
Good Luck at OASC when you get there.

[joe2812]

Racism should be the least of your worries!

The fact there might not even be an RAF by the time you come of age should be much more scary!

[BEagle]

My best chum at RAFC in 1968 was a Pakistani AF academy chap on exchange. And I used to enjoy the banter with an Indian navigator chum who revelled in his nickname of 'Chart Wallah' - as did he.

Use the positive side of your ethnic origins to your advantage. 5 minute talk? Do it on Indian cuisine - and politely tell the 'red monkeys' that they know b*gger all about a good curry or whatever, perhaps.

There are far, far fewer racist bigots in the RAF than in civilian society - and even less than the media would have you believe! But political correctness has made even mutually acceptable banter a risk these days.

Don't worry about it!

[FJJP]

First of all, forget the sensationalism generated by the gutter press. Throughout my 38 years in the RAF as a pilot, I did not encounter racism at all, and I served with a number of races of all ranks [the latest a Pakistani SAC, about 3 years ago].

The latest appointments list in the press shows an Air Commodore posted to MOD - he's Jamaican and a fast jet QFI; race has no bearing - ability does.

Finally, get back into the ATC. OASC sets great store on evidence of motivation, and there is no greater evidence than membership of that organisation. You should be able to organise your life to allow you to attend most drill nights as well as earning part time - thousands of us have done it in the past. You may have to sacrifice some of your social life, but the rewards long term outweigh the short term. Besides, it's another example of motivation where you can show the Board that you have prioritised your time to fulfill your life-long ambition to fly in the Royal Air Force.

Joining the RAF should be an almost obsessive focus in your life next to achieving the best academic qualifications you can possible work for.

Bust a gut - you have a lot of hard work ahead of you, but when you get there you will realise that it was all worth it in the end - especially when you are looking at a target through the Typhoon HUD!

[Captain Kirk]

Generally speaking, racism and bigotry become less prevalent as education standards improve. As a very technical Service, the RAF needs a very high proportion of intelligent and highly skilled personnel. In my experience, the RAF is very partial to your conduct and competence - but does not give a damn where you are from, what accent you have or what colour you are. Having a Daddy who also served in the 'King's Own Royal Donkey Wallopers' will not help you - your brain and ability to work in a team will.

I am not saying that is does not exist but it certainly is not tolerated. I don't think he would mind if I posted that the Jag force have a flight commander with first-generation Indian heritage (poor chap does have to endure appearing in an inordinate amout of PR shots though!) so you need not be concerned as to any race-ceiling.

As I recall, the BBC did a 'Look East' series, one programme of which focused upon Asians in the Armed Forces, almost all of whom were very positive. You may be able to track down a copy - it would give you a useful second opinion.

Bottom line is come on in - if you are good enough, you'll do well!

:ok:

[16 blades]

I can honestly say I have never witnessed any open racism in the RAF in 13 years of service. We do not care what colour somebody's skin is, only whether or not they can do their job.

The people who get grief are those who try to blame their shortcomings on their ethnic origin / gender / background, or those who think their 'status' entitles them to different treatment to everybody else. People like this are, however, few and far between and don't tend to last very long in the service. Race / gender, etc simply is not an issue, unless you try to make an issue out of it.

Go for it - you will have the time of your life. Good luck.

16B

[JessTheDog]

I've worked with quite a few officers and airmen from ethnic backgrounds and I have never witnessed any racial abuse or discrimination; I am convinced that any instances would be dealt with severely. This is partly a reflection on the RAF judging on the merits of potential and performance and the shared culture, but more to do with wider changes in UK society over the last 20 years.

[lineslime]

If you are serious about a career in the RAF for crying out loud go for a commission. The prospects are better than groundcrew and the pension is better. I'm sure beer is cheaper in the mess as well (SNCO's mess excluded). As for racial discrimination, I can't say I have seen any. I know a chap from Trinidad and he is doing really well, as well as groundcrew can do, and is well respected amongst his peers.

[joe2812]

For those who want to read before they post... Mods can make sticky or delete either way, no harm done eh? :}

I'll keep these links are a .txt for the time being anyway...

These are threads since about Jan '03 which i think are relevant and i've seen come up often... as the football tonight is rather lame, thought i'd give it a go and try and be useful for once - if not, what do I know, i'm just a sixth former!

Note: these are aimed at pilot wannabes, Engineers, Navs, ATC'er will have to to their own searches!

Joining the RAF?


http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126501 (How to get sponsorship)

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150251 (What to expect from aptitude testing)

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148179 (General information - Interviews)

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141588 (OASC Information - General)

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140220 (OASC Information - Illegal drug use)

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141121 (OASC Information - General)

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140106 (OASC Information - NC Aircrew)

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=128136 (OASC Information - Fitness)

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=123947 (Direct Entry and Graduate Entry)

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=123460 (Branch change information)

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=121993 (OASC Information - General)

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=121285 (IOT Information - General)

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=118946 (OASC Information - General)

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113914 (RAF Commissioning)

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105729 (OASC Information - General)

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140283 (Degree vs Direct Entry by yours truely)

Search for 'OASC' http://www.pprune.org/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=1585188&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending


Joining the RN?


http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=163385

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=155916

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122133

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=125855

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65110

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64435

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65019

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38891

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39461

Search for 'AIB' http://www.pprune.org/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=1585195&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending


Joining the Army (AAC)?


http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=121065

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=161010

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=161010

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140600

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117087

Search for 'AAC' http://www.pprune.org/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=1585199&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

[joe2812]

wishtobflying - I did the links, feel free to write descriptions mate but I find my way preserves the sense of excitement and surprise!

And will copy the thread across to the other forum if people find it useful...

[Rockapemk2]

I've recently been steered in this direction by some of your other user about a question I have.

Im in the early stages of an application to join the Royal Air Force as a Regiment Officer with WSO as my second branch choice.

I was in ATC for 7 years then joined OTC last year. However I am considering changing to RAFaux now as OTC doesnt seem to be presenting much of a challenge.

My question is will the board at OASC see this as a bad thing and dwell upon it as being a sign that i cant commit to something or dont take things seriously?

T

[Safety_Helmut]

You sound just the sort the Air Force are after.

[idle-centralise]

As long as you can back up why you changed over, it won't be a problem

[airborne_artist]

Friend of mine spent his Uni years in the TA, passed OASC first time, as aircrew, never having been near the UAS. As I-C says, back up yr story, and you are away.

[Rockapemk2]

Cheers for the replies so far, im just concerned that moving on so quickly from OTC to RAFaux will go against me.

[kippermate]

I would have thought that, if you are in the process of applying for a full-time career in the RAF Regt, you will be unable to offer any commitment to the RAuxAF. They may think otherwise.

Furthermore, I would have put WSO first. Actually I would put pilot first, unless you know of any medical or aptitude related reasons not to. They can only say no.

Good luck, whatever.

kipper

:ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

Put what YOU want first. Let them sort out what they offer. If you get Regiment they will think all the more of you putting them first. It counts.

[Rockapemk2]

Pilot would be excellent but i know that my eye sight is shockingly off the required standards,mild short sighted in my left eye.

Can see your point;

[Solid Rust Twotter]

You fortunate swine....:ok:

[XFTroop]

My no. 2 son has declared an interest in pilot/wso training and is currently in the throes of applying etc through the local Recruiting Office. In the event of him reaching the OASC stage, I would like to coach him on the sort of D/T/S problems he is likely to encounter,(even tho' he had a v/expensive schooling!!! it was sadly lacking in the art of mental arithmetic). My recollection of such OASC stuff is now nigh on 40 years out of date.
There used to be a web site at www.timc.clara.net/raf.htm which had some useful info on this but the site no longer appears to be available.
Anyone know if it exists under another name or if there is another site with similar info?

XFT

[maccer82]

im currently awaiting OASC and am in the same boat, is there any particular type of maths i should be concentrating on? i have done a PPL, and am keeping myself familiar with speed/distance/time calculations, and a few other calculations needed when flying, i am just worried that i am not doing enough, should i be concentating on any other maths or other topics for selection?
cheers.

[buoy15]

maccer82

You might need to have a look at your grammar, spelling and the correct use of capital letters, which will help you in your Service Writing, which sadly, you must do.

All the best!

[BigGrecian]

When your OASC date is confirmed you will be sent a blue book with such problems contained within....

(along with the answers to life the universe and everything)

[Neeps]

I'm currently in the depths of revision for OASC and I was wondering if someone could tell me if the following is correct for Pilot training:

24 weeks IOT (30 in November)
EFT at a UAS
Streaming

FJ: BFJT at Linton on the Tucano, FJ AFT at Valley on the Hawk T1 (128 in '08) 19 sqn for T&W (NFTC or 19 sqn) and 208 then onto an OCU

ME: MELIN at Cranwell(1 FTS sqn) on the Firefly, MEAFT at Cranwell on the Jetstream then onto an OCU

RW: Basic flying course at DHFS at Shawbury on the Squirrel, advanced single engine phase of training on the Squirrel, multi engine training on the Griffen at Shawbury, advanced multi engine trinaing on the Griffin at Shawbury. Then onto an OCU (Can someone help me with the terms? I'm very shakey on my knowledge of RW training)

If anyone could help correct any of that, let me know course lengths, explain to me how holds are done for RW and ME, or offer any other information I would be very very grateful!

[Flik Roll]

The EFT phase is about to change - maybe EFT at a super UAS who knows...!! and as of september IOT is 30 weeks long

[mr ripley]

Try RAF Flying Training System (http://www.ukmfts.mod.uk/pages/current/raftraining/pilot.shtml) as I think it is about the best online info (but I believe UAS studes get 62 hrs now). You will also see that you can access other good info from that page.

Also try this (http://www.ukmfts.mod.uk/pages/current/pipeline/pipeline.shtml), which is upto date.

[Neeps]

So it's September now, not November?

If I am asked about the UAS EFT and IOT in my interview at OASC I will say what it is currently, and how it is made up. I'll also point out that I'm aware of the changes but seeing as no UAS report has been issued (that I know of) nor has an IOT brief been issued then I am unaware of the specifics. (Unless there are reports that I have missed....)

thanks for your help :ok:

mr ripley thank you so much for that link! That takes care of the specific course names and lengths! :D

Can anyone give me ideas of holds? Do RW and ME guys get "creamie" slots like FJ guys on Hawks or Tucanos?

Sorry for all the questions, I find it all very interesting.

[mr ripley]

Holds: Holds are a variable feast...see the thread on best holds. The idea is that you shouldn't hold, believe it or not, but have a couple of weeks off between courses.

I believe the policy is that if you hold after IOT then it should be flying related, to keep you interested. However post wings it will more likely to be less flying related and more officer related.

Definitely no creamies on ME and I believe this is also the case with RW.

Any more Qs?

[Neeps]

Ah yes, I remember reading that thread now. I'll have another nosey.

So why does the FJ stream have creamies?
The UKMFTS aquirement...does this mean future instructors for RAF Pilot Training will be civvy?

Thanks for your replies, unfortunatly I do have quite a few questions! :O

[teeteringhead]

Confirm no "creamies" on RW.

But the instructors at DHFS are a mixture of all three services and (ex-service) civilians. Any capbadge or uniform of student may fly with any (or all) of the above.

[Neeps]

thanks for the confirmation.

I'm looking over the RW training now, it was the one I felt really unsure on. I'm trying to be as prepared as possible for OASC. Plus the fact that if I do manage to end up on an IOT slot, I'd like to know what may happen to me! :D

[mr ripley]

The UKMFTS aquirement...does this mean future instructors for RAF Pilot Training will be civvy?

Military Instructors (http://www.ukmfts.mod.uk/pages/faq_programme.shtml#q16)

All good prep. I seem to recall, there is a question on theoretical training paths, which you are covering with this thread. However please remember they will assess your breadth and depth of knowledge in a number of areas including UK and World politics. They also like to hear your own analysis/viewpoint, just don't trot out what you believe they might expect you to say.

[AMiller]

Hi

Good luck with OASC just to comment on your first post in case you have not picked it up already....

ME training at Cranwell is on the King Air now not the Jetstream

[Neeps]

thank you.

I realise that this isn't the only thing I need to concentrate on. I currently have a world map with lots of little pins in it stuck to my wall and my floor is strewn with newspapers, magazines, mathematics books, problem solving exercises, homemade flashcards, etc. :}

It may sound a little geeky, but I'm actually enjoying it. It's making me look forward to my OASC attempt, whereas a year ago I was terrifed at the prospect!

Thanks AMiller, much appreciated!

[5 Forward 6 Back]

Neeps, just to clear up a few tiny innacuracies in the original post.

FJ: BFJT at Linton on the Tucano, FJ AFT at Valley on the Hawk T1 (128 in '08) 19 sqn for T&W (NFTC or 19 sqn) and 208 then onto an OCU

Yes, but don't know why you've got 208 in there twice. You pop from Linton to 208, then from 208 to either CFS as a Creamie, 19, or NFTC. Creamies come back to refresh on 208, then go on to either 19 or NFTC. TW graduates from both NFTC and 19 head off to OCUs.

ME: MELIN at Cranwell(1 FTS sqn) on the Firefly, MEAFT at Cranwell on the Jetstream then onto an OCU

Cranwell's 3 FTS. Similarly, Linton's 1 FTS, and Valley's 4 FTS. I don't know if a separate squadron run MELIN, but MEAFT's run on 45 Sqn on the Beechcraft King Air 200. Jetstreams are all dead now.

As well as an OCU, you could wind up on a "training flight" within established squadrons on some fleets, as they don't have a separate unit to train.

RW: Basic flying course at DHFS at Shawbury on the Squirrel, advanced single engine phase of training on the Squirrel, multi engine training on the Griffen at Shawbury, advanced multi engine trinaing on the Griffin at Shawbury. Then onto an OCU (Can someone help me with the terms? I'm very shakey on my knowledge of RW training)

There's only one Griffin course, which is the advanced one. You do Single Engine Basic on the Squirrel with 606 Sqn AAC, Single Engine Advanced on the Squirrel with 705 NAS, then Multi Engine Advanced with Sixty Sqn on the Griffin. RW OCUs are OCF; Flights rather than Units.

[Neeps]

Just wondering if anyone can confirm the new 30 week IOT for me?

[kippermate]

Neeps,

It sounds like you have got your head screwed on. Don't get it bogged down in the minutiae. The interviewers will be aware that you have read up on your chosen trade (if you can remember it all at interview!).

You will also have to do the RAF Fitness Test (shuttle runs, press ups and sit ups) and this is effectively pass/fail (if not actually pass/fail) so, make sure that you are not just sitting about lloking at a map of the world with pins in it. Get running!

Good Luck.

kipper

:ok:

(if selected, you will be on a 30 week IOT)

[Neeps]

Thanks kippermate! I have started running but seem to find swimming ten times more enjoyable! Someone told me that anyone going for Pilot has to do a swimming test, although they were the only person I have ever heard this off of! True or False? I'm hoping it's just the usual 'banter' between candidates.

[Bob Viking]

You will indeed have to do a swimming test but as long as you have four, semi functional, limbs you should be able to pass it!
The mandatory half marathon in under two hours is still also on the syllabus. It's tough going but the sense of achievement more than makes up for it!
BV

[Neeps]

Unless Cranwell has been defunct in passing out yet another set of new OASC guidelines... Last time I checked it was a bleep test...

Or you are speaking of IOT?

Please advise

[Bob Viking]

Apologies.
I was talking about IOT. You won't need to do the swimming test on OASC. That comes later. The bleep test is done on the fam visit I think and the half marathon happens in week four of IOT, to allow progression onto one of the training squadrons.
BV

[Need for Speed!]

You're all so mean! My course only had to do the half marathon in less than 2 hour 10 minutes. :)

Swim test is 100 metres in overalls then tread water for two minutes. I took the p!$$ and did it with my hands on my head - I don't think you will find it too hard!! ;)

Keep up the swimming though, its good cardio and you have to do swim circuits during IOT - the faster you can swim, the less press ups/tricep dips :yuk: etc your mate has to do!! :ok:

NFS

[Neeps]

Thanks for that. I've heard one person say to aim for 3 miles in 21 minutes to get fit for IOT. Thankfully, with the length of time that it takes for everything, it will be plently time enough to get even more fit before IOT.

[gingles]

You won't need to do the swimming test on OASC.

Any Aircrew do have to do the swim test at OASC i think. I did in Nov '04, so not sure if they changed it since.

[kippermate]

The best people to answer this question are likely to be those who work at the Department of Recruiting (RAF) at RAF Cranwell. They may even tell you the answer if you ask nicely!

kipper

:ok:

[turgon]

Hi,
I know this topic has been done before but I can't find anything from my searches. I'm going to visit an optician soon and can someone please give me the exact eyesight requirements needed for RN/RAF pilots?

thank you

[PhilM]

This is for RAF and was current in 2004, of course subject to change.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/philm/eye.jpg

Is essentially what your after I think, CP2 on the colour vision bit means "No errors are made using the Ishihara plates under the prescribed conditions".

PM me with an email address if you'd like the full document.

[airborne_artist]

This is from another thread on PPrune:

Outline Guidance on Medical Standards required for Officer Entry into the RN, RM & QARNNS

For aircrew, standard 1 visual acuity is required along with colour perception 1.

Standard 1 is:

to be achieved with correcting lenses:

Right eye 6/6 N5
E 1
E 1
Left eye 6/6 N5

to be achieved without correcting lenses:

Right eye 6/12 N5
E3
E3
Left eye 6/12 N5

Refraction limit

Right Eye

Total
Hypermetropia +3.00 sphere
Astigmatism +1.25 cyl
Myopia (in any meridian) -0.75 sphere or cyl

Left Eye

Total
Hypermetropia +3.00 sphere
Astigmatism +1.25 cyl
Myopia (in any meridian) -0.75 sphere or cyl


Your local optician will understand it.

Colour Perception Standard 1 : The correct recognition of coloured lights shown through the small apertures on the Martin Lantern at 6 metres distance.

[jimlad4]

thanks very much everyone, i hadn't quite anticipated it to be so difficult to get in. Oh well, you don't get in if you dont try, ey! Oh, does anyone what the ratio is for people with degrees against those leaving sixth form (aged 18)? Do they prefer one or the other?

[joe2812]

Try here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=166273)

It links to numerous threads, one of which is Degree vs Direct Entry.

Most people on here tend to be for the Degree route, but don't do it for the wrong reasons.

Try the Search function up top, theres shed loads of useful threads for us wannabes on 'ere, you just have to find them!

Best of Luck!

(Edited for poor speeling - see)

[nav attacking]

I believe that the RAF is currently changing its preference here as a result of Typhoon and JSF coming into service. There is now an in service degree system in place which allows you to build up points towards a degree as you go through various aspects of your in-service training. The idea is that a young lad straight from school hits flying training at the best age to learn the new skills required of a modern generation fighter pilot ( no longer how many ales that could be sunk in the bar the evening before a 4-ship) Best to investigate the scheme on the website and then ask your friendly Careers Office advisor who may just know about the scheme.

The cynic in me would also say that the young lad will be more likely to give a good return of service and be more inclined to accept the fu%^ing around than an older graduate who is nearer the age of settling down and having family ties etc.

Best of luck with the Careers Office, the advice that I was given first time around was not the best for me but the best for the service needs. Things may have changed now.

[6Z3]

Let's assume you're a high flyer school-leaver (the sort that the RAF wants early) who takes the RAF bait and forgoes a confirmed place at a premier league university to get gain a quality degree (in the future this will be the only HE currency recognised by top employers targetting graduates) and join the RAF direct from school.

You're rather snookered if, two or three years down the line you end up being one of the 14 out of 15 students who didn't make it thru Pilot pipeline.

Chopped, depressed, early 20's, no quality degree, staring at the bottom rung of the next ladder, no paddle.

[PileUp Officer]

You're rather snookered if, two or three years down the line you end up being one of the 14 out of 15 students who didn't make it thru Pilot pipeline. Chopped, depressed, early 20's, no quality degree, staring at the bottom rung of the next ladder, no paddle

Hmmm... I would say that you're actually in quite a good position.

I would think that most employers would rather have someone with a few years of RAF Officer experience than someone with a degree in basket weaving. I do see your point about premier league degrees though but most degrees are not premier league.

You are young and have a lot of life experience compared to similar aged graduates and have no debt (If you’re sensible with your pornstar wages).

Yeah, you might get depressed but I’m of the opinion it’s better to ‘celebrate the life than to mourn the death’ sort-of-thing.

[pr00ne]

PileUp Officer,

"I would think that most employers would rather have someone with a few years of RAF Officer experience than someone with a degree...."

Seeing as that few years would be entirely in the training pipeline I don't think your statement could be more wrong, especially for some of the more high flying City jobs, good degrees from the best universities will be the ONLY thing these folk will be prepared to consider. It would be VERY hard to compete with folk like this.

I think 6Z3 makes a very good and valid point.

Now, if you had a first class degree AND a few years pilot/officer training that might be a very different proposition, but without it you would be well and truly snookered.

[Raffles01]

I'm not sure what most guys who get the chop do when they re-enter civvie life, but isn't this assuming that most of them go for these 'high flying city jobs' in an office? I would have thought, if we're talking aircrew, most would want a job with some sort of flying involved- thus not particularly needing a degree. Just a thought.

[pr00ne]

Raffles01,

True, if they want to stay in a cockpit. Those who are succesful in getting part way through the RAF FJ process are by defenition the very best of the best, and the RAF competes with the City institutions and their like to attract these folk in the first place.

[bigsmelly]

Pr00ne

Surely the best of the best are the ones who don't get chopped?

[pr00ne]

bigsmelly,

True, but just to get a few years through the process still puts one in that category, just not being quite good enough for FJ is no mean achievment in itself!

[Pecs]

If you were chopped from pilot training, and you had good a-levels, what would prevent you from starting uni aged 21-23ish, with the view to going on to a top job later on?

At least you would have had a go at flying in the military, had a pretty good time on the way, realised it wasn't to be, and you would then have 3/4years of fun and debauchery at uni to figure out what you want to do in civvie street.

[Roguedent]

I joined the RAF straight from school, and on pretty poor A-levels, I might add. The recruiters seemed more interested in taking me as a school leaver, than a graduate. More over, the current RAF Pilot network is fit to burst, but as usual, there will probably be a short fall in a couple of years.

I believe, had I failed, that I would of had better life experience than a bloke of similar age, 21 ish! Plus, university, and a basket weaving course, would of still been an option.

Graduates hold the advantage once through the system, regards Pay, but, and a BIG but, they are normally 3-4 years older plus DEBT!!

The current climate in the RAF seems to be all about us being a extraditionary force. FJ slots are getting less and less these days. The Multi lads are becoming the backbone of this air force, but the FJ boys do have cool toys to play with. As Blackadder would say ' YOU LUCKY LUCKY BARSTOOLS'

PS... will someone tell OC 10 that my crew here are great

and one day I will remember to log out of public computers as some people are not as nice as my crew and would put something really really rude!!!!!!


I am such an idiot!!! :zzz:

Rodders:rolleyes:

[Tonkenna]

Personally I wouldn't worry about statistics or any of that stuff. If you want to be a pilot in the RAF... and you must really want it... then just go for it. The figures are very fical (sp?:) and change on a daily basis. If I was joining now I would try for straight after school... with an application for Uni in as well. I did not go to uni and certainly don't regret it, and had it all gone to rat in the RAF I would have gone to uni later. I would rather have tried and failed than never tried or even worse turned down a place at the end of 6th form and then not got in after uni when the numbers changed.

The standard of the student does not always dictate the slot the get pr00ne. Some very good students of mine did not get fast jet slots because there weren't any. A lot of it is timing I am afraid.

Jimlad,

It all depends on how much you want it and after 19 years I still really enjoy my life in the RAF.

Tonks:)

PS Rogudent... have you done the codes yet;) :ok:

[teeteringhead]

Have to agree with Tonks on the stats issue - if you succeed then 100% of you have got in, if you don't it's 0% - if you want it then goferit.

You can keep your options open anyway. When I wanted to join (with quite good A levels;) ) I applied for both Direct Entry and for University, on the principle that if one didn't come up, then the other might. In fact both did! Three really, as OASC tried to persuade me to go for "real" Cranwell, which I turned down (sorry BEags!).

Opted for DE because I had no idea then that I would still be wearing uniform (albeit occasionally!) 30-odd years later, but mostly because it got me to a squadron 3 years sooner than the Uni or Cranwell options . There are indeed many ways to skin a cat, or to achieve a satisfying military flying career.

[joe2812]

Something else to throw into the mix...

As someone who applied for both DE and Uni (Aerospace at Hertfordshire), I opted for the degree when the decision came.

For me the decision was based mainly on the fact that I didn't feel ready to join the RAF. I'm by no means 'immature' nor anything of a 'mummy's boy' however I just felt within myself that I wasn't ready physically or mentally to leave home, finish education and join the Armed Forces. I didn't need to go to Cranwell only to be (more than likely) told 'come back in a few years wee laddie' - I already knew!

University (aswell as giving me a fall back for EngO and better opportunities later in life), also gave me 3 years to mature more, learn more, get fitter, and hence giving me a better grounding for OASC and IOT when they come. Ontop of that I get cheap beer, plenty of women, the opportunity to try for UAS/OTC, and give myself the best chance of succeeding at what I want to do.

If however i'd felt ready to join up at 18, I would have, it's just that my feelings (rightly or wrongly) were that I needed those 3 years to better myself before looking at trying for such a demanding and highly sought-after career in the RAF.

At the end of the day it's your decision, only you know what you want and how you feel, just think through what will give you personally the best chance of getting it.

[jimlad4]

thanks very much everyone for your unbelievably helpful advice! thanks again, jimlad

[cazatou]

jimlad4,

From an old codger - GO FOR IT. I did OASC in the early 60's with a few O levels (GCSE's to you) and 3 years as an ATC Cadet. I ended up flying all over the world.

If you don't get in the first time then you can try again. If you don't try then you will never forgive yourself.

BEST OF LUCK!!

[OVERTALK]

Bit of thread drift here - but can't help observing that justice prevailed in the end.

WM got sacked for fraud (not before time) and I got the million dollar pay-out.

So there was a God in attendance after all, even though I had to tap my forehead rather hard on the ground (once only) to find him in that God-forsaken land.

OT

[u617990]

Can anyone tell me if the RAF accepts candidates for flying training if they require corrective lenses?

[caspertheghost]

Not as far as I am aware although it has been a long time since I applied. Try searching this forum for eyesight requirements or OASC and you'll find a definite answer. Failing that try the RAF careers website or wait until someone more 'in the know' answers your question.
Good luck!

[Angels 99]

Absolutely not, there was a stage where a small degree of correction was permissable but with Typhoon the bar's been raised back to perfect or bust.
IIRC the uncorrected visual acutity required for WSO is slightly less than 20/20 as is the FAA's requirements if you want to smell of fish for 18 yrs.

[6Z3]

So if you are tall enough to reach the bar, have 20/20 vision and want to smell of crabs for the next 20 years, you know where to go.

[lewtsgr4]

Hi there,
Just in the process of studying for OASC in a couple of months and would like to here from anyone who has done the RAF selection in the last few months.
I have done some research on pprune but some of the info is out of date, especially about the actual aptitude tests for aircrew. It would be gr8 to here from anyone who has just done them as I know they have changed slightly over the past year.

Many Thanks

[PPRuNeUser0172]

It is 'great' not gr8 you pikey:mad:

God I am starting to sound like BEags............:}

I am sure there are plenty who can give details on the pain that is OASC.

Just out of interest how do you know all the information on here is out of date, maybe you already know too much!


Al the best with your application

[JNo]

Say Sir a lot, don't be a complete muppet and you'll be fine. Unless you're going for pilot.....heard a 5 slot for the year rumour from somewhere......

[Bluntend]

Get yourself a Mensa 'challenge your IQ' book (available from all good book shops). They have pages upon pages of puzzles - visulaisation, alpha numeric, mental reasoning etc. Its a good way of getting your brain used to the type of questions the aptitude tests throw at you.

[UberPilot]

Essentially it's the format same, some minor re-arrangements of procedures/timings etc.

There's now an Individual planning exercise, quite similar to the RCB planex (there's a practice one on the RCB website which infact used the same map!!), but it's no harder than the group exercise.

Really, speaking from experience(s), apart from reading (The Week, one a week stragely enough, The Econmist and flicking through the Torygraph website on a daily basis for the world headlines and opinion) there's only so much you can do. To a large extent you'v either got it or you havn't.

[TeBoi]

I found out after I'd already passed the aptitude tests that there is a near identical copy of one of the main pilot tests at the RAF Museum at Hendon. It is in the kids' section and involves keeping a hot air balloon in the centre of a screen by using rudder pedals and a joystick which moves in pitch and roll but only affects the balloon in pitch. A bit of practice on this, and it will almost certainly help. With not many slots this year or next, you're probably gonna need it. Even better, the museum is free and worth a visit anyway.

TeBoi

ps The real test does not involve a hot air balloon but the controls and principle are absolutely identical!:ok:

[TeBoi]

LL,

Talking of thousands of qualifications, you've reminded me of the fact that you don't need 3.3 gazillion A* grades to be a jockey in the RAF.

The requirement for serving personnel is only 5 GCSEs, including Maths, English and Physics based science. This is reduced according to rank and time served down as low as just the basic 3 above. Also, the age limit is 26 on entering training for ground trades and 31 on application for NCO Aircrew.

I personally think NCO Aircrew is a good thing for people to consider at the moment if they are unsuccessful for pilot as it gets them airborne, in a job which gives them lots of scope to cross over in the future. No offence to anyone, but there are no real opportunities to cross over if someone comes in as a WSO or ground branch (bar the odd scheme when we're really short) but this is positively encouraged in NCA.

Anyone reading this thinking of applying at present may find this useful advice if they find they're losing out because of the current dearth of places and extremely competitive nature of selection at present.

TB

[Lord Flash-Hart]

Hi,

I have been reading the OASC posts on the forum for some time now and have decided to stick a post up to get some feedback before I go there on Sunday.

I applied for DE straight after 6th form and was told basically that I needed to get some life experience and build some confidence. I passed the Aptitude tests back then with 118 so I will be re-sitting them this time. My dilemma is this......

I am 21 now I have been to uni and I have applied for Pilot, WSO and WSOp. Due to the decrease in pilot recruitment I have a feeling that if I do well at OASC they might offer me WSOp. So.....if that was to happen, do I accept it and hope that I can crossover before I get to 30 or do I turn it down and apply for pilot again next year (which will be the last time I can apply to be in before the age limit.) ??

I have always wanted to be a pilot and although I have no doubt that WSOp is a great job, I am not 100% sure I would be happy sat in the back of a nimrod for years! But I don't know how they will look at it from a selection point of view if I was to turn it down!

Who knows if I wake up as a blonde with big tits on Monday morning I might stand a chance of pilot!

Thanks in advance for any advice or comments.

Rich.

[Ivan Rogov]

As you said yourself, if you get offered WSOp that gives you 9 years to try for pilot. AFAIK WSOp is now the generic for all NCA (Non Commisioned Aircrew, not called NCO Aircrew anymore.) Good luck next week.

[Aynayda Pizaqvick]

I think you will find that this will be the last time they let you have a go as pilot as you are only allowed to sit the pilot aptitude tests twice.
Just don't be in a hurry to say no to anything they may offer. Go home, sleep on it, and do some research before you decide it is not for... then say no.
Best of luck!

[Flik Roll]

^ ^ Not so, once you have pass the aptitude, you have passed!
And 112 is the pass, so 118 is a low pass but still a pass.

[Role1a]

Word of warning

9 years to apply for pilot may not be true

As well as all the training which will take a while, you may have to pay back (with productive service) your training costs, this could be anywhere between 3-6 years. It can be wavered, but if they are short of wsops and long on pilots, well !!

Hope this helps

R1a

[Speed Twelve]

Might not be relevant in today's aircrew recruiting climate, but when I did OASC in 1989 I applied for pilot only. Didn't want to end up flying 'in the boot', so told the board I had no interest in being a nav. Bit of a gamble, but it worked out and was given a place at Cranditz for pilot (direct entry BTW).

Factors which tipped the balance may have included being a bit older (21), having done some mil-sponsored assessed flying (30hr RAF flying scholarship) and the numbers going through flying training being slightly higher than at the moment....

Good luck anyway! Be yourself, speak-up and chill out.

ST