OASC 'CANDIDATES' and WANNABES, PLEASE READ THIS THREAD FIRST!

[reeko]

Hi everyone,
Thanks for looking at my thread. I'm 15 years old and am considering a career in the RAF as a pilot. I'm in the Air Training Corps and have been told that it will help me to get into the RAF.

I have spoken to a couple a pilots through the ATC and they said it would be good to ask on PPRuNe.

But my questions are:

When going for the interview for a pilot at the OASC what thing should i revise on incase I am asked some questions like, why does the Merlin have 3 engines?

What is the best thing to have knowledge on?

Thanks

Reece

[Pontius Navigator]

The idea about brilliant SJAR is wrong except that they will already give you the confidence when you get toe OASC. Why drop the idea of jumping ship?

Go to OASC and let them judge you. You all start equal when you arrive at Cranwell then it is up to you. Remember though that you are not in competition with the others in your group. You are in competition for places which are up for grabs.

[gingerwig]

Hello Everyone,
This is my very first time on here today, all shiny and new. I am just in the process of starting my application process and have my P2 Presentation on the 20th March. After this I have to wait until the 10th April when I have to get an Eye Surgery Supplement filled out by my Optometrist for the LASIK procedure I had performed last year on the afore mentioned date.
Now my initial preferences of branch were Aircrew (WSOp) and Fighter Controller. Now don’t think me un-ambitious when I say ‘I would be happy with any role in the RAF’, because I am not, in fact my main reason for wanting to apply is that I want to be the best that I can be, amongst 3000 other reasons, that I won’t bore you with, any more than I already have.
Anyway, I believe, although I haven’t had confirmed, that Aircrew would be denied me due to my eye surgery. This by the way is not the main reason for my posting but if anyone has experience applying after having surgery or has any information on that matter at all, I would be very grateful to hear from you.

Getting back to the point!

I have been studying the history, branch choices, aircraft, weapons, bases, squadrons, maths (specifically speed, time, distance), world currents affairs, UK current affairs. I have been running 3 times a week (1.5 miles 9:30, 3 miles 20.40 to date), swimming, circuit training etc.

Is there any thing else I could be doing?

Any tips for my filter interview, like, do you call your interviewer Sir or Ma'am, maybe a silly thing to concentrate on but I think attention to detail matters.

Is there anything I could do to help with aptitude tests (even though I am aware that apparently you can’t practise for that them)?

What can I do to make myself more appealing on a leadership basis? (Duke of Edinburgh, Outward Bound, keep hearing about these things but not sure how much baring they might have. I will do anything I can to improve my chances of selection).

I am very sorry about the length of this post, for those few still reading :zzz:. Again, well done Matt and thank you for your patience everyone.

[mattb999]

Hello!

I know that any form of laser eye surgery is unfortunately a permanent bar to entry for aircrew. I don't know the reasons for this though and I wouldn't like to speculate.

It sounds like you have been doing all the right type of studying for your selection procedure. I never put a limit on the amount of knowledge I could have before going to Cranwell. It's great that you're researching all the facts about the RAF, current affairs but I would also suggest taking some time in your prep to study YOU! It takes up half of the interview and they do want to know everything you did in and out of school and everything you have done since school so sit down and write dates (approx months and year) you did particular things. These can include being a member of a team or society, sports clubs, cadet associations, volunteer/charity/community work, any travelling you have done, the list is not exhaustive really.

Filter interview will be done by the Flt Lt at the AFCO so I would suggest being respectful and calling them "Sir" or "Ma'am" - at least that is what I did although I wanted to because I work/ed in a hierarchical/uniformed organisation. Keep smiling and enjoy!

Aptitude tests - I would suggest just doing loads of Speed Distance Time calculations (it will help with your planning exercises as well) and improving your mental arithmetic. There is a lot of it. Start reading books on a regular basis to improve your reading skills and also digesting of information - particularly helpful in the verbal logic tests.

DofE and that sort of adventure training is all very good stuff but I certainly got from the RAF that they want to see you seeking opportunities to better yourself or at least taking the opportunities that are already open to you. I don't know what you do at the moment but I would start filling your spare time with community/charity work, get involved with some clubs, lots of exercise. I don't think it's an exact science but they want to make sure you just don't work, finish work and go home. They want a well-rounded individual. Leadership stuff - think of when you have been in positions of responsibility at work and out of work.

This is the sort of things I did, albeit a lot of the stuff I was already doing before I applied to the RAF but some others I took in an interest in shortly after applying. It gives you so much to talk about during your interview.

[Pontius Navigator]

MattB gives good advice and I will return to the best bit at the bottom.

[SIZE=3]Hello Everyone,
Now my initial preferences of branch were Aircrew (WSOp) and Fighter Controller.

my main reason for wanting to apply is that I want to be the best that I can be,

Doesn't everyone?

[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]Is there any thing else I could be doing?

Yes, see below.

What can I do to make myself more appealing on a leadership basis? (Duke of Edinburgh, Outward Bound, keep hearing about these things but not sure how much baring they might have. I will do anything I can to improve my chances of selection).

No DoE and OB are not relevant at your age. If you haven't got leadership appeal now you never will. What you need to do is ensure that what leadership skills you have learnt in the last 10-12 years are relevant to our needs tomorrow.

What else can you do? As MattB said, work on YOU. Your initial post suggests a lack of focus. You start well with WSOp, which would be as an NCO or Fighter Control which might be as an officer, or anything else, which might be as any other trade. You say you have done the study, now you should focus on particular branches and where the skills and attributes that you have honed may be applied. Does that make sense?

[gingerwig]

Thank you Pontius & Matt. That all makes perfect sense.

I started off after school (from which I received 8 GCSE's A-B) doing an apprenticeship in Fabrication & Welding, gathering an NVQ 2 & 3 and BTec ONC on the way. During that time I had positon's of responsibility looking after other apprentices and even being involved in their training. When work dried up in that sector I took it upon myself to make a career change. I put myself back in to college at nights, off my own back and studied joinery from which i received an NVQ. I changed jobs and at the same time went about setting up my own business, which is going well and I am even thinking about taking on a school leaver from the local college. I have played in football teams continuously from the age of 8, until 3 years ago when I had the urge to play cricket (pashion of mine), so I went along to training at my local team, a year later I was batting 6 and wicket keeper (either because I couldn't quite remove the urge to dive about, or because of my ability to sledge the opposing batsmen, i'm not quite sure).

Just a brief insight in to my life so far. I think my main worry at first was that I didn't have any qualifications in management but then I realised there are other ways to prove leadership and also that having qualifications in management doesn't guarantee you are a good leader.

Aerospace Battle Manager is a branch that really appeals to me. It sounds like it is a high pressure job (they all do), with lots of responsibility. I like to be part of a team that works well together, and get a buzz from learning off people. I am not afraid of hard work, and put everything in to the task at hand. I have sent letters to RAF Waddington and RAF Boulmer to see if i can make a visit or speak to a Fighter Controller and get a closer look at what is involved.

Again thank you for your advice.

[Daz1985]

Morning folks! Long time reader, first time poster here, so please be gentle J

I was wondering if any of you could lend an ear and offer me some advice to my little predicament.

I applied to the RAF at the beginning of 2008 for pilot, sat OASC at the end of the summer, and was subsequently offered a place on IOT15 pending medical and security checks.

However I hit a stumbling block on the med checks, when a note beside a bout of headaches stated a possibility of migraine, and was subsequently declared PMU. My GP reviewed the notes, and in the end declared the note as void, the possibility of migraine as misdiagnosed, and cleared my medical history of the record. I filed an appeal with the med board, and am now currently awaiting an appointment with a forces consultant, to assess my suitability to begin training.

Unfortunately, time is catching up with me. I turn 24 next month, and therefore would be over the age limit to begin pilot training if my appeal is successful; unless my appointment manages to get sorted in time for me to be placed on IOT16 beginning on 22nd march (highly unlikely considering the pace things have went in the past)

I contacted candidate processing at OASC, asking what would happen if I overshot the age limit, to which the gentleman replied that a decision would be made by the Group Captain OASC whether or not to allow me to begin training, that direct entrants have began training over the age limit in the past, but that my case would only be looked at only once the appeal process has concluded.

My questions are thus:

- Is anyone familiar with, or have any knowledge of direct entrants beginning training over the age limit of their chosen branch? Is all hope lost?
- Will the date of my original application (while I was still 22) have any bearing on the outcome of the Group Captains decision?
- Should I cross apply for the Army/Navy, bearing in mind my flying aptitude score was above 145?
- If I should cross apply, should I do it now, or wait until the appeals process has finished, bearing in mind my medical history is now clear, or would my medical notes transfer across to the Navy/Army personnel, and halt my application from day 1.

Thank you for taking any time to read my post, and thank you in advance for any replies, they are very much appreciated.

Best Regards

Daz.

[airborne_artist]

Start applying for the RN now - you stand a chance of getting a September place - only three entries a year at BRNC wef April 09. You will almost certainly get a P place on that score, and probably get told so quite soon after AIB. I'd say if you started now you'd get to AIB by mid May, and know about a place for September by mid July.

The RN ACLO in Belfast is a good guy, and reads Pprune!

The normal routine is here, but you might not re-do FATs - when did you take them?:

1. RN presentation at careers office - with a bunch of other officer candidates, just a powerpoint presentation and a dit about the various branches and jobs available, etc.

2. RT test - the standard tests done by all officer and rating candidates. Maths, English, mechanical comprehension, etc. There will be plenty of info on this on navy-net, just have a trawl through. New.

3. Sift Interview - A formal, one to one interview with your careers officer. Lasts about an hour, motivation for joining, Navy knowledge, etc. Following this you will be given the full bundle of application forms.

4. Flying Aptitude Tests - This is where it gets tough! Two days up in RAF Cranwell, one day of testing. 5 hours or so in front of a computer screen doing barrages of tests. Lots of useful info on this here www.navy-net.co.uk/cpg...1868.html. (http://www.navy-net.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=11868.html.) and on PPRuNe.

5. Medical - At your careers office, or at a GP nearby. Pretty standard height, weight, etc. Questions about any ilnesses or medical conditions you might have. Basic vision and hearing tests. New

6. Admiralty Interview Board .

7. Aircrew medical - A much more in depth medical, done at Haslar the afternoon after your AIB finishes.

7. BRNC - Assuming you are successful enough at AIB to win an Aircrew place.

AAC places are not confirmed on joining RMAS. A slightly convoluted process, but essentially you are taking a big risk, as it's quite possible you'll end up in another Corps/regiment.

[Pontius Navigator]

And let OASC know you are applying for RN.

If your original assessment was above average and you had high aptitude scores then it can serve to focus their minds.

[Daz1985]

Cheers for the fast response guys.

AA, I sat the FAT's In september 08

Pontius, cheers for the advice, will give them a buzz once I've got the RN ball rolling.

Any opinion on the medical side of things, would my current situation cause any hiccups? At this point I'm thinking I might as well give it a shot, have nothing to lose.

[umbrella1]

Make sure you let OASC processing know you are appealing and that you are concerned about the age.

Also, for those people who are serving airmen/soldiers/sailors. OASC DO see your SJARS and it does not matter what the rec is its the narrative that counts. Also, they are looking to see if your ROs have endorsed and recommended your desire for commissioning/NCA.

[airborne_artist]

I sat the FAT's In september 08

You won't re-sit them, then, so you will speed up the RN FAA process :ok:

[Kirk_Fairweather]

Hi there,

Been reading alot of the recent posts on this thread and one topic which im not too clear on is branch specilisations. Ive been trying to look up information on them on the internet, however i cant find any good information. I was wondering if anybody knew a good site which might have this information. My filter interview is this friday and ive covered alot of bases for questions the Flt Lt might ask me, but i know if a question was asked about the specifics on each branch then well... Id start 'Umming and Erring'.

Obviously quite nervous, so i was just wondering if i could get some information as to what the filter interview is like, questions asked etc. Im going for the weapon systems operator job.

Cheers :ok:

[NDW]

If you haven't already, I would suggest looking on the RAF website.

It has all the current affairs and also your specific job role..WSOp

HTH :ok:

[airborne_artist]

In response to a PM I rang a good mate who has the low-down on current practice at AIB.

The Commander (Air) selects offers for BRNC by looking at both FATs and the AIB score. Over 112 is a technical FATs pass, remember, for pilot. The lowest recent FATs score was 118, and that was, it seems unusual - 125 was a realistic minimum, and 130 was therefore a safe figure to expect a BRNC place.

AIB scores are also taken into account, so 130 is not a guaranteed place at BRNC, even with an AIB bare pass - they'll look at age (over 25 is less good, if combined with a low AIB pass), and take note of any comments - they want to put people through who will fit easily into a crew/wardroom environment.

[danjwin]

Hi all,

I'm interested in either becoming a WSOp (linguist), or an Intelligence Officer. If anyone with experience in these or similar areas can talk to me one-on-one, please send me a private message.

-Daniel

[CamMack]

hi everyone
i recently aqpplied for WSOp in the RAF and was informed 10 days before leaving for my Basic training that i was perminatly unfit for Aircrew..

but i have not let that damper my spirits in joining the RAF and i am hoping to go for Intelligence Officer. I have been on the RAF website and found some information but if anyone happens to be an Intelligence officer i would love to pick your brains!:ok:

thanks cameron

[Pontius Navigator]

TDM, is you look back at his posts you will se mention of the BIG A.

PS

For any 3 year-old aspiring pilots out there, DO NOT LET YOUR MUM TAKE YOU TO THE DOCS with a wheezy chest.

Seriously, Mrs PN believes that some Mum's do take their children to the Docs almost as a social event and they end up with precautionary notes that should never have been there.

[Benjybh]

Hi all,

Just a couple of questions from me:

In response to what I just posted above, just checking that I'm correct in thinking that the FAA are more...well, sympathetic to those with the word on their medical records?

Secondly, somewhat understandably I have no idea what FATs score I would get, but I was just wondering what the 'average' score is; you always hear of the magic '125 pass' and '130 place at AIB' scores, but roughly what percentage of candidates actually attain these kind of scores?

All the best,

Ben :)

[airborne_artist]

Ben

112 is pass, 125 about the bare minimum for a place at BRNC, 130 much better. You get to AIB on 112, but then spend a year finding out that 125 is what you need....

Practice the mental maths (speed, time, distance) and get on the Xbox with some shoot 'em up games to get the hand-eye-brain bit.

Four years with no symptoms/treatment is enough for the RN.

[Benjybh]

Cheers a_a,

Does Flight Simulator count for anything? I guess it may help more that Xbox and the like?

Ben :)

[airborne_artist]

I don't know - the FATs co-ordination test is about fairly fast reactions to changing conditions, using rudder pedals for some tests, so FS might not be the best, unless you are dog-fighting the entire Luftwaffe over Dover in your Hurricane.

[ChecklistPlease]

I'd just like to say THANK YOU

This forum has been a great help to get me a place at Dartmouth for a Pilot Place.

Thanks,

c_List

[Benjybh]

Congratulations, I bet you are over the moon! :)

[airborne_artist]

CLP

http://www.bravozuluonline.com/images/b-flag_8nu8.gif
http://www.bravozuluonline.com/images/z-flag_w7wp.gif

[jamier]

Not going to OASC but passed my medical today for AMM (AV) got my fitness test wednesday.

Anyway what i was going to ask is kinda stupid but what is a decent watch to have for starting RST?

Thanks

Jamie

[Pontius Navigator]

And the stupid answer?

One that is accurate. One that has a high contrast ie something like white hands on black ground with white numerals.

An analogue watch is better than a digital (until you really know what time is) as you can see the hand positions more easily than you can work out the time difference on a digital. On a digital there is no visual difference between hh:01:01:01 and 01:03:59 and 01:01:59 and 01:03:01 as you need to calculate that one is 3 minutes and the other is one minute.

You do NOT need a date function nor do you need a stop watch function. The look good but you don't need the date in flight and you won't have a hand free to operate the stop watch. And no bezel; you want as much of the face to tell the time and no fancy metal bits simply making the face smaller.

Citizen, Pulsar or Seiko are all good.

[Sambo P]

hi all

quick question for you...
has anyone had any experience with this new site?
www.fatpass.co.uk (http://www.fatpass.co.uk)

I have read a couple of good things on thestudentroom forums, but was wondering if anyone had tried it here. It's not expensive, but I'm not working at the moment, so I'm quite stingey!


Thanks

[NDW]

Evening all,

I was chatting with my parent's last night about me quitting the A.T.C, the reason being if I start A levels, I would want as much studying time as possible to acheive the best!!

But I would be leaving at 17, however I am happy with what I have done through - out my 4 - 5 years ATC history ( achieved the rank of Cadet Sergeant, been on 3 Annual Camps, Flying experience, gliding experience etc) Would this prove satisfactory ?

Would I be looked down upon by the RAF?

A career in the RAF or other armed forces( Aviation trade) is all that I want. However I would most likely ask my C.O to see if I could return as a C.I or just an ATC staff member, to help organise activities such as : Charity fundraising, sports evening's etc, So I could still get as much leadership experience as possible!!


So what do you all think?

Thanks :ok:

[Spam_UK]

NDW,

I left the ATC at 17 for almost the exact same reason, and the RAF didn't look down on me at all. If anything they recognised that I had my priorities in the right place with my exams!

You've made the most of your time in the ATC now concentrate on your exams, and keep working towards OASC or whatever it is your looking to do, and best of luck to you!!

Spam

[mattb999]

NDW,

As per Spams post I left the ATC at 17 as a Sgt. Thoroughly enjoyed my time there and made the most of it, as it seems you have done!

The interviewing officers, both at filter and OASC did not question my reasoning behind leaving. As long as you continue to do some activities to keep you busy during your down time, when not studying then I am sure you will be in a good position.

[airborne_artist]

And for the same reason you don't get extra points for joining the UAS while at university. The interviewers are looking for rounded, aware individuals with leadership potential (or experience, if you are a bit older), who can perform under pressure.

They don't care if that experience has been gained in the ATC, the rugby club or your local Hells' Angel chapter. In fact they'd rather it was gained in a setting where you have had exposure to people with varying backgrounds/abilities/skills, rather than in a self-selecting group of safe middle-class people.

They'd probably worry a lot if all you'd done by the age of 20 was the ATC - it might show a lack of flexibility and an inability to take on new ideas/activities.

[NDW]

Thanks all for your super quick replies:ok:

[Flypro]

Sambo P...

I am aware of Flight Aptitude Test Workbook RAF Cranwell FATS (http://www.fatpass.co.uk), (fatpass.co.uk) I was helping a family friend through his prep for the FATs recently (FAA) and we stumbled upon this gem. It is a very good resource for the speed distance time aspect of the FATs. If you wish to fly for the military, then this is a valuable investment. For the price of a couple of pints, I'd go for it.

Good luck with OASC Sambo

Flypro

[dave_perry]

NDW,

I have stayed in the cadets throughout sixth form and have found it fine. I am leaving in the next two weeks to make sure I secure the grades, fitness etc... for the Royal Navy. Obviously it is up to but it hasn't hindered me in anyway. If anything has helped me stay focused and gain relief from doing something different twice a week (at least).

Whatever you decide, Good Luck!!

Dave

[CROSSO]

Gents,

After some advice as I've just been asked by one of the parents in the football team I coach if you can become a pilot in the RAF if you are colour blind. I said I suspect not but wasn't sure so I said I'd find out.

Any advice gratefully received.

[Pontius Navigator]

Crosso, I would say you are right but the usual caveat, who has said the person is colour blind? Only one way to find out and that is apply.

[CROSSO]

PN,

It was the childs own parent would said he was colour blind but she had been told by her own doctor that you couldn't join up being a pilot or Bomb disposal if you were colour blind. Both comments make sense.

[Pontius Navigator]

Crosso, the comments made sense but the doctor is a GP and not a specialist. I probably know more aviation medicine than a GP. I say again, it is only the aviation medicine doctor that will confirm or deny colour blindness perception.

[larss123]

Hey guys and girls can anyone enlighten me on this issue I have.

Unfortunately on turning up to my filter interview today at my local careers office, I was informed that it had been postponed for at least another 3 weeks, which was rather disappointing as I have been doing a hell of a lot of preparation for this date. They informed me that interviews had been cancelled due to absence and shortage of staff. The London Careers Office seems to be struggling a bit at the moment and I am wondering whether I would be better off trying to get a filter interview in another careers office outside London, as I am keen to get the ball rolling on my application. Would anyone think this advisable?

[airborne_artist]

Larss - so long as you sound keen, go for it. Just don't sound as though you are whinging :ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

Larss, on the other hand you could use the time productively. While I would not disagree with A_A, if you apply to another AFCO it is perhaps unlikely that you would get an interview sooner. OTOH it would show keeness.

So, your call. More prep and relax or go for it. In the great scheme of things, at at your age, 3 weeks is nothing.

[airborne_artist]

Agree with PN, three weeks is not much, but if three becomes six, then that's annoying, so keep your options as open as possible.

However, if the AFCO is struggling now, how much capacity will they have as you progress through the system?

Good military people find workable solutions in challenging situations and achieve their goals despite things going against plan or not having the ideal tools for the job. This is not the last test you will have...:ok:

[Tomo83]

I only remember doing to beep test for OASC, level 9.10 is the pass. But the 1.5Mile run we did during IOTC, was something like 10mins (male) 12mins (female).

Just call up Cranwell they will tell you what you need to know.

[airborne_artist]

It makes no difference at all - the RAF's system is aimed at people with no practical flying experience, and once in flying training it's perhaps easier if you've not flown before, as you have no bad habits/incorrect techniques.

It's certainly not worth paying for flying lessons on the basis that it might get you in. Go gliding - great for developing stick and rudder skills, good for team-work, and cheaper too.

[matt 3840]

Just got a couple of questions. Just been doing some late night reseach because i've applied to the RAF and RN for pilot. However this is not what I would like some advice on. My passion in life is flying and i do alot of it already, and if for any reason I don't have the aptitude to get into the forces as a pilot. I would like to know what NCO aircrew is like as i would look at it as an option.

I know there is a big differnce between having a commission and going the NCO path. I've got a good idea of what the officer side is like as my dad is still serving within the RAF. But would just like a bit of info on what the NCO aircrew side of the house is like.

kind regards

Matt

[Pontius Navigator]

Matt, read this thread. It will probably answer your questions as recently there have been many NCO aircrew questions.

[airborne_artist]

C-R

In the bad old days there were plenty of people who applied with 30+ hours SEP, as they'd had a flying scholarship from the RAF/RN - it did them no harm, as far as we can tell, but equally it probably did not improve their chances, but it most certainly improved their motivation.

The point I was making is that there's no point chucking £6,000 at a flying school in the hope that it will improve your chances of getting a P place at Cranwell/Dartmouth - you'd be better off buying an Xbox and using that to practice your hand/eye/brain co-ordination. The other skill that can be improved with training is mental maths - speed/time/distance calcs.

[Pontius Navigator]

In today's papers is an article that states that the Services are at 97.2% of full strength.

The Under Secretary of State for Defence is cautious suggesting that it is too early to say whether the current economc crisis is the cause of buoyant recruitment. Well, from the number of older wannabees that are appearing on pprune, who do not have a track record of wanting to join the RAF, I think Kevan Jones is being overly cautious.

In today's financial climate there is no possibility of the Services 'banking' a few extra recruits above the 100% figure. If you want to join the Services you will have to convince the recruiters that you are not simply looking for an easy ride and that you are bringing essential skills to the party.

[crp246810]

Hi im 19 have applied to be a wSOP in the RAF - i passed my filter interview in norwich AFCO and i have just received the date to go to cranwell - April the 19th 2009! Has anyone been recently for the same occupation and can anyone tell me in as much detail as they can of what i should be expecting! private email me or reply on here or email my personel address [email protected] - Cheers to anyone that can help - Im sh*tt*ng it! lol

[Mr C Hinecap]

crp - you should be expecting to read this thread, visit the Student Room website, read the RAF Careers website, read what you got from the AFCO and actually understand the lot. I doubt you'll get too many people willing to e-mail you the 'everything I know' solution.

[crp246810]

Cheers mate - Didnt realy want to search over 100 plus pages especially when some of them are so old, things may not be the same as they where. I will try the student room, im just looking to get as much info as possible before i go there. Really worried about the interview as my knowledge of the RAF is limited and the same with my knowledge of current affairs. Im also worried about the fitness. I play football and i box so im hoping there not looking for na superhuman if u know what i mean. If anyone has recently been to OASC for wSOP and would like to help me please email. Cheers.

[Mr C Hinecap]

What I'm trying to say is that you need to help yourself. People will help you with specifics or problems, but 'tell me your experiences' isn't going to get you anything at all. You need to use the search function, read and then pose any questions. The RAF expects self-starters and those who show initiative and a desire to prove their worth in the interview and selection stages.

[Pontius Navigator]

Mr Hinecap has been very patient and gentle with you, especially as you completely ignore the advice he offered in his first post.

You are quite right, things do change. Where you are wrong is in the pace of change. Let me assure you that much of what you will be expected to undergo has been unchanged for many years. Only after 50 years did they drop the question "So how old does that make you in years and months" as it tended to put the candidate at a disadvantage.

WSOp may not be a commissioned rank but if anything competition and standards will be even higher than for an officer. Read my previous post; you will see you have lots of study to do before you go to OASC.

Really worried about the interview as my knowledge of the RAF is limited

At interview, knowledge of the RAF is vital. How else can you show us that you have what we want if you don't have any idea what we need?

and the same with my knowledge of current affairs.

Perhaps not so vital for a WSOp but never-the-less we are looking for people with a broad idea of what is going on. If you know nothing of middle east politics how do you know what the role of the RAF will be?

Im also worried about the fitness. I play football and i box so im hoping there not looking for na superhuman if u know what i mean

football - box - at what level? These will certainly be interview points. Now do go away and read the thread as advised.

PS, if you do get in, when something is advised or suggested or hinted you would be well advised to treat it as a mandatory instruction or order.

[Mr C Hinecap]

Mr Hinecap has been very patient and gentle with you, especially as you completely ignore the advice he offered in his first post.

You could tell I didn't have a 3rd nice one left in me couldn't you? :}

[goatmanni]

CRP

Good advice so far from Mr H and PN. One thing I suggest is to arrange a visit to a station where they have WSOps. Ask the AFCO or contact the Community Relations Officer at a station directly. You'll get a good overview of the role and it'll look good at OASC that you have bothered to travel to find out more about life as a WSOp and the RAF in general.

[ScrumpyJ]

Does anybody know what range of scores out of 180 for Pilot tend to result in an offer of service, presuming the rest of selection went well?

[airborne_artist]

RN FAA - typically greater than 130, though 125 may be enough.

RAF - 120 is enough, or was recently for Blimy, who got 120, and could not get an RN place, but got an RAF place.

112 is a pass, officially, but that does not mean it's enough to get in.

[Pontius Navigator]

For various reasons the number of applicants has increased. This means that the proportion of candidates achieving 112 or more will also increase although the numbers required have not.

While 120 might be sufficient for one candidate it does not follow that it will be sufficient for another. Compare, for instance, a graduate with a 1st class honours with a direct entrant applicant with 2 A-level. Even there the issue is not clear cut as the nerd or geek factor will also be considered.

What is pretty certain however, and everything else being equal, the higher the score the lower the training risk.

[Bzz1]

RN FAA - typically greater than 130, though 125 may be enough.

RAF - 120 is enough, or was recently for Blimy, who got 120, and could not get an RN place, but got an RAF place.

112 is a pass, officially, but that does not mean it's enough to get in.

Do you think the benchmark figure of 130 for FAA aircrew acceptance would differ significantly (if at all) for ATC?

I'm curious because I've got an RN application for ATCO in progress, however I've been told that I probably won't need to sit FATs as I sat them in February last year and achieved a score of 127 for ATC. My ACLO reckons they will probably just carry this score over. However, if it turns out that I'd realistically need 130+ anyway, then I would definitely want to have another crack at them, and as it's been over a year, I don't see why I couldn't anyway. What do you reckon?

[trucker2009]

Hi Guys, I sat FATS in November last year for WSO. The pilot aptitudes were taken out. I just realised that the eyesight for Navy is a lower standard for Pilot than the RAF. So, now I'm applying to the Navy for Pilot. therefore does this mean I can go back and sit the pilot aptitudes??

[airborne_artist]

Trucker - I bet your P scores are recorded though. The only person who can answer this for certain is the Navy AFCO, but I expect you won't go back to Cranwell.

Bzz - I was talking about pilot aptitude scores. I don't know the range for ATC, nor do I know how many are being recruited. There will not be many places, and that might be your bigger problem. Ask the ACLO - they can a) look up recent scores for successful ATC applicants (awarded a place at BRNC) and b) tell you the number of places per BRNC entry.

[Bzz1]

Cheers for that airborne_artist - spoke to the relevant people and it transpires that I won't have to do them again, and my score is competitive enough. Just wanna crack on with the AIB now!

Thanks again

[trucker2009]

Cheers m8, I spoke to the Navy people and they say I will have to go back again!, because I have'nt proved my pilot potential :}. Can anyone shread anylight what goes on @ AIB?

[dave_perry]

Sorry Guys, for not trauling through the whole thread before posting, however...

Tomorrow I have my Royal Navy Filter interview for Pilot. My question is what's involved in it? What would they ask? I went through to OASC with the RAF last year. Will it be very similar to the Filter interview for the RAF?

I expect it's:

Information on myself, achievements, motivation etc..
Current affairs
The Royal Navy structure, where they are in the world
Type of vessels, aircraft and sectors
Training
Ranks

Anything else?

Thankyou

Dave

[ScrumpyJ]

So Pontius, or whoever is reading, if i got 159 out of 180 does that greatly improve my chances to be selected for pilot?

[Pontius Navigator]

Scrumpy, yes, I would imagine so.

Just means you go into the pile where they consider your lradership skills and personal qualities.

Remember there are 3 things you have to be and Pilot is the least of these.

[ScrumpyJ]

Yes I understand, thanks. It is just so worrying waiting for my letter it is unbelieveable.

[mattb999]

When did you get back from OASC scrumpy? 159 is a good score! I got selected for Pilot last month so I am just waiting for security clearance now!! It's a great feeling when you get your letter!

[gingerwig]

Hi everyone,

Apologises that this isn’t the most exciting post.:zzz:

I have a few questions I’m hoping someone will be able to answer. I am studying up on my branch choices of Supply Officer & Flt Ops Officer and would like to speak to anyone who is currently serving in either one of these branches or anyone in general that can help.

Firstly I have read the information sheets handed out by AFCO, as well as the 'Commissions in the RAF' Pamphlets and they seem to be vague to say the least and tell different stories when it comes to the specialist training. Does anyone have any up to date information on the specialist training for Supply & Flt Ops?

Secondly, can anyone tell me about the IT system used by the supply branch, such as its role? And when it was introduced?

And last but not least, what would be the most useful RAF bases to visit in respect of the two branches I have chosen?

Please feel free to PM.

Thanks everyone.

[ScrumpyJ]

Just a few weeks ago so my letter should be coming any time now. Thanks I was very pleased with it, but i wasnt sure I gave the right impression in my interview, i ie wanting to be an officer too. What did you score?

[Pontius Navigator]

Scrumpy, don't place too much credence on the score. The aptitude score is only on tick in the box.

Like your 5 GCSE A-C where there is no distinction between 5 A* and 5 C or between A-levels in underwater basket weaving or rocket science. They are all ticks in boxes.

It is your performance in the leadership exercise and at interview that are the crunchers.

I am not really comfortable swapping scores as you would be doubly gutted if someone else said they got in with 118. What you don't see is the PQ scores etc.

[trucker2009]

Guys, Does anyone know how I could get a visit to RNAS Yeovilton? Can any of you guys give me a point of contact @ Yeovilton?

[airborne_artist]

Ask your ACLO for an FAA acquaint - VL does 8 a year, and so does CU. Go for the VL one and you get a full dunker course, plus certificate, and it comes with 50 extra bragging points for when you get home :E

[ricster]

I don't know if this is the right place to post this.

I've recently been flying with the Uni Air Squadron and I was wondering what the best way to learn cockpit checks?

I tend to just sit infront of a paper cockpit running through them over and over again.

Has anyone got any other handy tips that they could share?

[Mr C Hinecap]

Gingerwig - Supply is now the Logistics Branch - it combined with Catering and aligned the Trades accordingly.

There are several computer systems used in logistics - mostly by the Trade rather than the Branch (best you understand the difference). Why you want details on those is beyond me - and I enjoyed my tours working on them!

Specialist Logs Officer training takes place at RAF Halton these days.

If you are in the Liverpool area, you'll have to travel a bit to see any decent RAF Logs Squadrons - probably Cottesmore or Stafford (for Tac Supply Wing, but that is a bit of a misleading statement and role) or down to Lyneham.

[jgstarr]

bdw i am pretty certain that the raf eyesight has been brought inline with that of the navy.

ScrumpyJ (https://www.pprune.org/members/296096-scrumpyj) - I'm also awaiting a result for Pilot from OASC, apparently they have been gathering a load of applicants for review at the sift meetings that have been taking place all this week, so i think its fairly likely I may be getting the letter sometime next week! its probable that you will too!!

Also a friend of mine recently started IOT and passed with a pilot app of 115! so as PN says there's a lot more to it!

I know how you feel about the interview, i came out thinking i did very well, but over the last few weeks ive been agonising over little things that i think may have come accross badly! God the wait is awful!

Good luck anyway :ok:

[ScrumpyJ]

I have been doing the same thing, came out very happy but i am now stressing and worrying, nothing to do but wait though, might see you at IOT.

[larss123]

Hey guys and girls, I had my filter interview yesterday. A lot of people say that they are told after the interview whether they have been successful or not, is this true? The women who took my interview was very professional at the end, saying that I would receive a letter in the next few weeks and that if I was successful there would be a date for oasc but if I wasnt successful I could come back and enquire why I wasnt.

[jgstarr]

In my filter interview we had a fairly informal chat after the main part, in which he gave me general advice if i was called up for OASC.

If you have done well at your filter, your interviewer will recommend that you attend OASC. The decision of whether you will actually attend rests with OASC, and the speed with which you may be given a date can vary depending on the branch's you have applied for.

You should recieve a letter in a couple weeks saying that OASC has recieved your file, and then after more waiting you will recieve another letter with an OASC date.

From my filter to my OASC date it was exactly 4 months.

[dave_perry]

My interviewer told me straight away that he was going to recommend me. I did get a letter after about a week, however I knew that I had been recommended. It was then around 2 months later that I went to OASC.

[Raptorstick]

pilot is 112 aptitude.
what is air traffic controller?

also, navy is age limit 26.
Any ideas or rumours that RAF might up the age limit to 26 also, ever?
would be good if so.

[airborne_artist]

also, navy is age limit 26 You must be under 25 and 11 months at the start of the month of entering BRNC.

Any ideas or rumours that RAF might up the age limit to 26 also, ever?

Not unless the recession recedes so fast that applications dry up completely from the under 24 y/o's;)

[ScrumpyJ]

I think ATC is 100, but the tests are different i think.

[muppetofthenorth]

Pass mark for ATC is indeed 100, but getting 112 for pilot will not mean you've got 112 for ATC.

I got 136 and was told that if I were ever interested, that that score is very competitive - I hadn't gone for ATC, but for Int.

[FNU_SNU]

Hi everyone.

I'm currently in the process of transferring/commissioning into the RAF and am awaiting a date to attend OASC. I have put dowm 3 choices, all in the Ops Support Branch, Int, ATC and Aerospace Battle Manager.
I know there is currently a requirement for ATC and Aerospace Battle Manager officers, so does this mean I am likely, if successful, to be ring-fenced into one of these jobs?
The reason I ask is I am currently in the Intelligence Corps and a trained analyst and have also trained as an IA. I have deployed in the IA role with the RAF so have experience in the relevant field. I'd like to think this would inprove my chances of getting my first choice as I have heard there is a high turnover of officers in Int, does anyone know any better?

As an aside, a while back I saw an electronic version of a booklet aimed at potential officers explaining the dress code in the mess with photographic examples. DOes anyone know where I can get a copy or who can e-mail one to me? I am currently looking to buy a new suit anyway so may as well get something decent that would fit the bill.

All help is greatly appreciated.

[Amnesia180]

Hi All,

I've yet to even attend the 2 hour presentation from an officer at my local AFCO.

However; I've started to prepare prior to this, to give myself the best possible chance (if sent to Cranwell).

Anyway, for others that may be interested... I've found a few websites that may offer some guidance. I'm not saying they hold any "answers" but they do have some useful information.


The Student Room offers some advice on how to prepare for your interviews (http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/RAF_-_How_to_Join_and_Preparing_for_Interviews).
Some Speed/Distance/Time calculations (http://www.speeddistancetime.info/) (as well as some useful links to other resources to help prepare for OASC).
There is also some preparation literature, entitled "Succeed at RAF OASC (http://www.prep4oasc.com/)". I haven't purchased this, but some may find it useful.

Further information (http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcranwell/aboutus/55sqnaatrain.cfm) regarding Airman/Aircrew training can be found on the RAF Website.


I have also picked up a lot of tips from reading through this thread (and searching the forum as well as a couple of others) and it is a priority that you have a knowledge of Current Affairs/Operations (not just the standard Afghan and Iraq) and also NATO.
It's also common sense to know the training schedule (which is outlined in the 'Further Information' link above, and I believe you also provided with literature after your presentation at the AFCO). Also know the aircraft you could be assigned to (and it wouldn't hurt to know the rest of the functional aircraft).

Apparently group sporting activities can go in your favour, so make sure you are ready to mention those at a given opportunity! I don't do any group sport, but do swim and play squash (so this is something I'm going to add to ASAP).

If anyone else has anything to add, please feel free to add. I've tried to bring a very brief summary of what has been discussed over these past 154 pages.

Hope this helps!

[FNU_SNU]

Hi Everyone,

I am currently in the process of transferrring/commissioning, I have passed my filter interview and am waiting for a date to attend OASC. I am currently in the Int Corps and a trained IA. My preferences are all in Ops Support; Int Officer, ATC, and Aerospace Battle Manager.
I know this is a big requirement at the moment for ATC and Aerospace Battle Manager so does that mean if I am accepted and meet the required standards I am likely to be pused into one of these jobs bearing in mind my first choice and current experience?

As an aside, I once saw an electronic guide to dress standards for officer cadets with phtotgraphic examples, does anyone know where I can get a copy? I am looking for a new suit anyway and may as well get something that is decent quality and would fit the bill if I am accepted.

Cheers, all help is greatly appreciated.

[Mr C Hinecap]

FNU - just buy a suit - just a lounge suit. Nothing fancy, nothing shiny, nothing 'fashionable'. Just a plain suit. The guide was exactly that - a guide - not a prescriptive document.
Don't buy black - there you go - sartorial advice from a mostly aircrew forum - who'd a thunk it?

[FNU_SNU]

Cheers Mr H. The reason I was asking is what actually constitues a 'lounge suit'? ie A decent wool suit, 2 or 3 buttoned - does it matter? Does it have to be a certain style? I have been looking a some grey and navy suits at T M Lewin.
I remember the guide mentioned some companies that visit Cranwell at the start of IOT and do mod discounts, do you or anyone else know who these are?

Thanks for replying!

[Mr C Hinecap]

grey and navy suits at T M Lewin

They will be fine. This is the RAF we're talking about here - most there will have terrible shiny fashion suits on - especially the future aircrew! Just be smart and conservative (with a small 'c'). Forget anyone visiting and buying their kit - you need a suit for interviews/OASC etc and won't need 2 of them in the long run! Worry about the bigger things - not which suit!

[Pontius Navigator]

My preferences are all in Ops Support; Int Officer, ATC, and Aerospace Battle Manager.

requirement at the moment for ATC and Aerospace Battle Manager so does that mean if I am accepted and meet the required standards I am likely to be pused into one of these jobs.

No, you will not be pushed. First, remember you volunteered for ATC or ABM! Secondly, assuming you are suitable for all 3, you may be better suited to one or the other. As you have not put these as first choice then you would certainly be asked how you would react if offered 2nd or 3rd choices. For some the choices would all rate equal, for others they may be choices of last resort - see the point?

What was true a few years ago however was that competition for Int O was very fierce.

[FNU_SNU]

Thanks or the replies guys!
I was wondering if it's worth starting a new thread about OASC? This thread is now over 150 pages long and started in 2004! Things have changed since then and a new thread prevents people from sifting through countless pages to find what's up to date and pertinent. I just went to the last page and worked back but I'm sure not everyone would think of doing it like that.

(Sorry about the double post, one of them appeared hours after I tried to post it, it must have been in pre-mod).

[Pontius Navigator]

FNU, one of the recent points makes the point that not a lot has changed since WW2. The hangar exercises and the interviews are really fixed in stone :). The tyo of person we are looking for is virutally unchanged too.

One problem is that our standards have not changed whereas the national education system has changed. Aircraft have become more sophisticated whereas the school output less so.

Only in 1991 did we introduce the electronic calculator instead of log tables but many baby navs had never done trigonometry at school. I had to write a trig primer for the maths and science booklet at Nav School.

As for a new thread, feel free. One brave soul offered to edit the existing thread but the task was rather too difficult. If a new thread was begun the opening gambit would inevitably be, read the other thread first. Your best bet is, as you say, trawl through the recent posts and also use the Search engine, Google will search pprune too.

[FNU_SNU]

Fair one, I'll get back in my box. :O

[goatmanni]

FNU

With respect to a suit, don't get too concerned about it. You do not need two of them, you will only need to wear it in the candidates mess. Contrary to what Mr H says, at the moment the interview is conducted wearing overalls! As far as your choices are concerned, I believe that you could well be selected into your 2nd or 3rd choices if you achieve the grade in the aptitude tests and are deemed suitable.

Goat

[Crazy_Kayaker]

Hi

I have my FAT's for the FAA comming up very soon and was wondering if any one could give me more information on the memory tests involved in the testing ? how many digits etc.

Also does any one know what is involved in the pilot aircrew medical?

I would apreciate any advice people could give me.

Thanks

[dave_perry]

There is a test whereby you have to memorise letters, do mathematical calculations, and colour co-ordinate dimonds and boxes; all at the same time. Then, there is, a test of scenarios, whereby multi-coloured spitfires fly across the screen. You have to memorise which colour flies past first, which coulour does 4 loops and which enter from the top etc...

Off the top of my head - I can't recall any other memory tests. However, the FATs test natural ability so I don't think you can do alot of preparation before hand to improve yourself. You are either born with it or not. Good luck anyway!

On the med. question, that's something I would like to know also...

Dave

[airborne_artist]

CK - check PMs.

Aircrew medical is very thorough - ECG, EEG, etc. Nothing to prepare for, though.

[Benjybh]

What are ECG and EEG?

[Mr C Hinecap]

What are ECG and EEG?

If I told you that if you put them each into that google thingy, then the very first results were the answers, would that help?

[mattb999]

In addition to dave perry's post, there is the Digit Recall test that gives you a set of numbers to look at for about 5 seconds. You are then asked how many of a certain number appeared in the sequence. There can be up to 15 numbers in one sequence so it does get quite tricky!

I used the Nintendo DS brain trainer to help me with my arithmetic (which features heavily) and also memory. There are plenty of free resources to use on the internet to help you with your short term memory and your mental maths.

As airborne artist states, the medical is thorough. They take about 4 viles of blood, hook you up to an ECG for about 10 minutes, a full examination by the doctor, your weight, height, arms and legs are all measured. The optician then looks at your eyes, does some corneal mapping, field of vision tests, colour perception and 3D perception. It's in depth. I had to repeat a set of my blood tests (which is apparently quite common) at my GP, I am still waiting my ECG results from the 18th Feb so you don't go away knowing whether you're medically fit or not!!

[stuart955]

Not been here for a while, and I'd first like to apologise for the question I'm about to ask. It regards eye tests and eye sight requirements so feel free to ignore if you're sick to death of questions about entry standards etc. (I have tried google but my problem is pretty specific)

Some of you may remember me asking some questions about generally trying to be a pilot for the RAF a few months ago. Well, now it's changed to FAA and my application's well under way - got my sift interview on Friday morning and feeling reasonably confident, touch wood.

My question concerns eyesight. My scores have all come out quite well, my vision being 6/5 and ' near aided/unaided' N4, which I'm told is better than N5 (the required score).

Now for the bit I'm a bit concerned about.

Here's a link to the list of eyesight requirements which a lot of you have probably come across before.
http://www.assoc-optometrists.org/uploaded_files/raf_july_07.pdf

My scores in the refraction range column are as follows:
Sphere R +0.25 L +0.50
Cylinder R -0.50 L -0.25

So according to the requirements, my spherical component is fine, the limit range being -0.75 to +1.75
However, for my Cylinder scores, the requirement limit only mentions +1.25. Now, my scores are negative numbers, -0.50 & -0.25. There's no mention of what these scores mean! Is there no limit on negative readings?

I asked this question on good old yahoo answers and a user who claimed to be an optician told me there's a way of adding the Sphere and Cylinder components to form a positive number (This is a good sign, because adding my scores in any way won't ever produce a number above +1.25), but still I'm not totally sure how it all works

I'm 95% sure there's nothing to be worried about, but if anyone can give me that extra 5% certainty I'd be very grateful!

Thanks,
Stuart

[airborne_artist]

If applying for FAA then you need to use http://www.assoc-optometrists.org/uploaded_files/pdf/04-navy.pdf

[ChecklistPlease]

I have heard from inside sources that the eyesight and age for the RAF are changing again!

The eyesight limits are coming down!....inline with the RN

The age limits are going up to be inline with the RN

What are the crabs playing at!!!

PM for more info if needed

[stuart955]

Thanks!

That chart actually has the same problem though. In the Standard I list, astigmatism is allowed up to +1.25 but my readings are negative numbers, which it mentions nothing about.

I'll just assume all is okay. According to the Standard 1A requirements pre1995 I'm okay so I reckon there's probably not too much changed in the new entry standards.

[mattb999]

This is from personal experience of my recent attendance at OASC and I don't know where they do the FAA medicals;

My fellow aircrew candidates and I were only asked to read the bottom line of the standard letter chart in a mirror. As long as we could do that then we were passed rather than doing the black circles in the red and green backgrounds which, I believe, among other tests give you those plus and minus figures in your sph and cyl. They then went onto test stereoscopy, colour perception, corneal mapping and field of vision.

[muppetofthenorth]

I have heard from inside sources that the eyesight and age for the RAF are changing again!

The eyesight limits are coming down!....inline with the RN

The age limits are going up to be inline with the RN


The best rumours are the ones that keep coming back year on year. Just like the one about how you'll have to be 18 to start to learning to drive, not 17.

I've heard this mentioned every year for the past 7. Hasn't happened yet and I doubt very much it will ever change! RAF has no reason to: it's never short of applicants who do meet the current requirements.

Until I see it on an official RAF site/letterhead, I'll not believe it, sorry.

[ChecklistPlease]

I should have rephrased my last post better. The changes in the eyesight are short and long refraction limits. Not 6/6 etc

But, We'll see in the future! :ooh:

[larss123]

While we are on the subject of medicals. I am applying for Air Traffic Control, not aircrew unfortunatly. I have passed my filter interview and am waiting on an Oasc date. I was just enquiring about the medical at Oasc. I do have in my past records when I was younger that I attended a priory hospital for some counselling regarding slight ocd/bdd. I have now fully recovered from it and there is no longer any problem. Will this stop me from getting in, I know it will come up in the medical and Im fully prepared for this however what I want to know is if it is a straight no after they see this in the records??

[airborne_artist]

By OCD/BDD are you referring to what is more commonly called anorexia?

[ScrumpyJ]

Stuart, doont worry about your eyesight. All you can do is go and see. i went having been told i couldnt be pilot, but when i got there i passed all branches, so dont put 100 percent stock in a commercial assesment. What they do there is far better, all you can do is go.

[ScrumpyJ]

Also about CDD/BDD i would be very surprised if that stopped you getting in, they make their own judgements about your mental state I believe.

[Amnesia180]

Hi all,

There has been some interesting posts on here since my last reply, especially the information regarding the 'digit tests' etc.

Anyway, I'm back looking for some more guidance with regards to reading material.

At the moment I'm getting my 'current operations' knowledge from the RAF website, reading through bbc.co.uk daily and also reading the Daily Mail (which I'm not overly impressed with) and newsnow.co.uk.

However, can anyone suggest any further reading material? The RAF website and MOD news section is great for giving the basics about ops and where in the world we are, but doesnt really get too opinionated.

I've been advised on reading 'The Week', 'RAF News' (from WH Smiths) and Flight International.

Any expansion to this list would be great.

Thanks all,

[Wader2]

At the moment I'm . . . also reading the Daily Mail (which I'm not overly impressed with)

Your comment shows that you are not entirely without judgement and taste, but with that confession I would change my pseudonym if you wish to be taken seriously.

Seriously though, you ought to read a quality broadsheet, but not the Guardian :)

[airborne_artist]

The Economist magazine is one of the best IMHO. By no means all finance-centric stuff, and very good geo-politics coverage. The weekly publication makes the articles more considered, and less sensationalist. If you were able to read, understand, and talk about its content/coverage you'd make a good impression at any interview.

[Wader2]

The Economist magazine is one of the best IMHO. By no means all finance-centric stuff, and very good geo-politics coverage. The weekly publication makes the articles more considered, and less sensationalist. If you were able to read, understand, and talk about its content/coverage you'd make a good impression at any interview.

Indeed, as a student, you can get an advantageous discount for a subscription.. Downside it that when you get into Cranwell, or wherever, you won't have time to read it!

[Amnesia180]

Thanks for the updates, I have found newsnow.co.uk to be very helpful, but I'll be switching to the Independent or the Times Online.

It's funny you should mention the Economist, as I stumbled across this when looking at 'The Week'. I think a big part of what you choose relies on what you are comfortable reading. Anyway, The Economist is 12 issues for 12pound and 'The Week' is offering 6 issues free with no subscription, so it wouldn't hurt to try both!

Regarding choosing 'Current Affairs', I've been advised to choose 3 or 4 International, and 3 or 4 UK. The problem is, I'm only on my filter interview (and havent been told whether or not I'm being reccomended for OASC), it sounds silly but what if one of my choices become 'out-of-date' by the time OASC comes round? I wouldnt want to be left with the standard answers that I'm guessing most people give (such as just Afghan and Iraq).

Thanks,
Dan

[airborne_artist]

what if one of my choices become 'out-of-date' by the time OASC comes round?

I doubt they'll crash and burn that fast - topics such as the Middle East, Somalia/Iran/N Korea/Pakistan will be with us for the rest of my life...

Think slightly off the wall - I read a fascinating article about water not long ago. Could be far worse than an oil crisis in some regions.

[Amnesia180]

You've made an interesting point AA. I'm assuming that as long as my topics relate to the country/military operation (in a political sense) it doesn't have to be directly linked to something that the RAF IS currently involved in, but something that could cause the neeed for them to step-in, or something that could affect their operational effectiveness?

I was having a discussion with a friend (who is also looking to join the RAF and she mentioned that she isn't going to start subscribing to any magazine, or getting involved in broadsheets until closer to her OASC date (she's ineterested in being a Phys Ed Office) anyway, I've advised her that she doesn't need to memorise the previous weeks news bulletins straight before her interview, because the news that could have triggered anything she reads during that time may have happened weeks or months ago. I told her she is slightly missing the point and that gaining a knowledge of current affairs (whether it be scientific, political, financial) can only strengthen her overall knowledge. Was that advice right? or are you all firm believers of 'cram revision'?

(Apologies if it seems like I've hi-jacked the thread, but hopefully the replies here will also help other candidates in their time management when coming to prepare, including myself!)

Thanks,
Dan

[gingerwig]

Amnesia, do you have an ipod? If so go on itunes and subscribe to some of the News Podcasts that are available such as BBC Global News and Newspod. I find the information sticks in my head a bit more as your listening to it. Also you tend to get the stories that matter.

Hope this helps.

GW

[airborne_artist]

I think you are spot on - the questions you may get asked won't be current in the sense of last week's news, they'll be deeper/bigger issues than happen to have made headlines in the last seven days. Cramming will be of little help, and will be shown up pretty fast I think.

[muppetofthenorth]

Listen to how they word their questions.

I'm willing to place money on the fact that they'll ask "what, if any, news event from around the world/the UK has had your attention over the past 12 months?".

Assuming any item of news you've picked isn't wiped from the collective memory in the meantime, you'll be fine with learning things now and keeping them all the way through. Though it is always best to have at least one thing from the week you're attending OASC/filter interviews.

[Amnesia180]

As always, brilliant advice from you all.

Time to get my subscriptions to The Week and Economist started :ok:

[gingerwig]

A good way to keep up with current affairs is to use Podcasts.

You need an Ipod or even just Itunes and subscribe to some of the many News Podcasts that are available for free. They are updated twice a day and last for about 20-30mins. They have all the main stream stories and also some more interesting stories which may impress more in an interview.

Try `BBC Global News` & `Newspod`and also `The World Next Week`and Politics weekly. Just a few but there are many to choose from.

I put them on my Ipod and Listen to them through the day. I find the information sinks in better and the content is always relevant.

Hope this is a useful tip.

GW

[Pontius Navigator]

Listen to how they word their questions.

I'm willing to place money on the fact that they'll ask "what, if any, news event from around the world/the UK has had your attention over the past 12 months?".

Assuming any item of news you've picked isn't wiped from the collective memory in the meantime,

And in 2005, when the question was posed, the candidate's mind went blank. When prompted that something significant had happened in the UK the month before a further pregnant pause ensued.

They then asked if the candidate had noticed the general election!

[muppetofthenorth]

And in 2005, when the question was posed, the candidate's mind went blank. When prompted that something significant had happened in the UK the month before a further pregnant pause ensued.

They then asked if the candidate had noticed the general election!

Works both ways, in an interview in August 06 a candidate was lambasted for not mentioning the London bombings of 7/7.

I'm not sure whether they were marked up or down for pointing out they were more than 12 months previous...

[fastrobert]

I went through the selection some years ago but presume that the same rules still apply. It's not so much your knowledge of the news they are looking for, but your ability to express a mature and considered opinion. If you can refer to a specific columnist and, for instance, give a reason why you would disagree with a certain viewpoint that's being expressed then all the better.

[ScrumpyJ]

I agree with the last post. They will not mark you down significantly for not remembering everything. Instead, once you have said several different current affairs issues or stories they will focus entirely on one, then probe your understanding of it in great detail. So my advice would be rather than learn lots, know several in detail. Also try to choose ones you are interested in, not ones you think they are. I was asked lots about Zimbabwe, the questioning was also interrogation like, very intense, quickfire questions. At the end I was asked how I would go about removing Robert Mugabe from power! It was intense but very good fun, just dont be nervous.

[FNU_SNU]

Hi guys. I was hoping you could clear something up for me. I've now been told that you get issued No.5 mess dress at IOT. I have also heard, and was always under the impression, that you had to buy this yourself and was only issued No.1 dress?
If you do have to buy I'll start putting away a bit more money (I'm saving for SNCO mess kit anyway , but the new grant will help with that!).

[Mr C Hinecap]

You'll get it issued. One initial issue of everything - including 5's.

[Melchett01]

I think you are spot on - the questions you may get asked won't be current in the sense of last week's news, they'll be deeper/bigger issues than happen to have made headlines in the last seven days. Cramming will be of little help, and will be shown up pretty fast I think.

Spot on. And don't just regurgitate what you have read in the papers, have some original thought to go alongside and an understanding of how the events you have picked out might be relevant to the UK or broader defence issues.

Now what I'm about to suggest takes planning and a fair amount of thought, but if you can pull it off it works a treat and results in either very impressed DS or slightly freaked out DS as you run rings round them:

Don't randomly pick your events / stories. If possible, pick events that can be linked together around the world ie something in the UK which links into a European topic which links into a Russian topic which links into a Chinese topic which links into an American topic which links back to the UK.

It is do-able but difficult, but if you can manage it, huge brownie points are all but guaranteed.

[minotur]

Hi,

I almost definatly want to join the military for various reasons. Im 22 and will hopefully have a degree in a few months(fingers crossed). Id love to be a pilot wether its FJ or not but unfortunatly im ever so slightly short sighted so im 99.9% sure the raf would reject me.
I have looked at the role as WSO but i have heard some very bad things being said, how they have a short shelf life, how all the fj's will soon be 1 manned, and how once your shelf life expires theres not realy any options available for you. Where as a pilot has civil aviation jobs available etc etc.
Ive read all this in various places including here but most of the threads are a few years old so i thought i would bring it up again.

Read some stuff about the FAA too, which my eyesight would be ok for but everyone has the opinion of "naval officer first pilot second". I realy would love even being in rotary though, But i think being an RAF officer appeals to me much more than being a naval officer.

Just want to know some opinions on the WSO role, is it realy as much of a dead end career as everyone says?

All opinions much welcomed.

Thanks

[Bus14]

To the best of my understanding, eyesight standards are the same for all aircrew roles and apply equally to the RAF, FAA, and AAC.

(Oh, and by the way, stand by for incoming flack from the spelling, grammar, and capitalisation police:ok:)

Bus14
Have fun. Don't crash

[minotur]

actualy i found this. Its a little outdated and i dont know of accuracy of the information but it states that the rn/army are not as strict as the raf regarding this.


http://www.assoc-optometrists.org/uploaded_files/raf_july_07.pdf

[minotur]

i woudlnt mind the role of a WSO as the raf would be my preferd choice but obviously by the time im trained there will be no place on FJ for a WSO but still i wouldnt be too disheartened by that im more concerned about in 5-10 years there wont be any place for a WSO in the raf and it would be a dead end.

i just made a post but it needs to be accepted by a mod i think cos i posted a link so ill just repeat what i said there (as this post posted without awaiting approval) basically on a pdf titled raf_july_07 it states that the army/navy requirements to be a pilot are not as strict as the raf. (has the numbers for eyesight requirements etc ) and i would meet the requirements for rn/army but not raf eyesight.

Obviously once again im completly aware that you must adopt the opinion of "RN officer first pilot second" and i would never join a force just to use it as a stepping stone to be a pilot which is why im basically trying to find myself a place in the RAF where i would enjoy but obviously im concerned about the future role as a WSO.

[Pontius Navigator]

Melchett has given a very good pointer and indeed if all wanabees use it at the next board that would freak them :)

I'll give one word to look up:

ASEAN

[Pontius Navigator]

You are right that the Tornado GR4 is planned to be out of service in 2020 or 11 years.

WSO slot in the Nimrod is secure but only a handful required.

Likewise directional consultancy appointments at Waddo will be scarce.

Also I would guess that there is sufficient remaining life amongst directional consultants that competition for a youngster like you would be very fierce.

I suspect there may be opportunities as RN Observer and, who knows, a reverse brain drain to the RN as happened when the RN lost its fixed wg 2-seat FJ.

[Griz]

Go for it. If you don't you'll always wonder "what if".

The GR4 is short of back seaters and is likely to be with us for up to 15 years. I've heard every suppposed out-of-service date from 2015 to 2025. My gut feeling is it will be nearer the latter. When did any aircraft ever go out of (or come into!!) service on time in the last 30 years?

[foldingwings]

I have to agree with Griz, 'go for it'.

I was a nav/WSO and had a 40-year career through all the scares of 'unmanned aircraft', 'the day of the manned bomber is doomed' etc etc. Never believe the published OSD dates for aircraft as new projects never arrive on time and the poor old Tornado will have to carry the can for many years yet, I suspect.

If I were your age again, I would apply for pilot with WSO as my second choice and let others make the decision about what my eyesight was good or not good enough for. Beware, however, that if you do go for pilot you need your application in, and to be in officer training, before your 24th birthday (WSO = 26). If you do go WSO, then if you work hard, you could be promoted beyond the cockpit before the Tornado is out of service and enjoy the fruits of a wonderful career.

Oh, and by the way, despite popular opinion the same rule applies in the RAF as in the RN - it's officer first! A display of any other motive at OASC or IOT will be your downfall.

Good Luck,

Foldie

[minotur]

i did actualy just read on google about the end of service for the Gr4 currently being 2018 - and as you say, Things generallly happen later rather than earlier in life.

Will any new WSOs be trained for it though? Will be a minimum of 9 years away till its gone so i guess if everything was to go to plan i would be at the WSO training stage at the end of 2010/2011, (obviously im just using complete guesswork on that). Would they still be training for it at that stage?

Obviously theres nimrod and a few others available but can somebody confirm what sort of job i could have eg 10-15 years down the line if i was to become a WSO.


yea wings i wasnt referring to it as if the raf wasnt officer first pilot second i meant i wouldnt mind officer first pilot second in the raf because it looks in general more of an appealing life to me. (Love the sea but not sure if id wanna live on a boat for ages?) lol.

Thanks for the advice i think i will take it and "go for it". Pilot then WSO and let them knock me down if my eyesight is a problem.

[foldingwings]

Without wishing to sound sarcastic - officer! Hopefully senior officer with command potential and an ability to produce solid & analytical staff work. With qualifications obtained during your operational flying career (eg. QWI, EWO etc) you could find yourself at the forefront of operational planning in HQ Air or MOD or working in procurement which can lead to lucrative industry careers if you do decide to jump ship at 38.

Foldie

[minotur]

cheers, you 2 sound alot more optimistic than some of the stories ive read along the lines of "the raf will be full of WSOs running round looking for jobs" lol.

Im 23 at the end of this year so im pretty sure ill be starting the process off to apply at some point next month.

[foldingwings]

Keep bashing the door down at the recruiting office. Don't let them sit on your application and ensure that they are aware of the age issue and any delay. My daughter did recently and she was in officer training 6 months after applying!

All the best.

Foldie

PS. The RAF recruiters will arrange Station Visits for you before an OASC date; pick wisely Lossie/Kinloss or Marham sound best given your circumstances.

[airborne_artist]

My sixpennies:

1. Check your eyesight - take both the RAF and RN standards to your optician and ask which you would pass.

2. Go to the RAF and RN officer careers officers and ask for station visits etc. The RN run sixteen aircrew officer acquaint courses a year, (eight each at Culdrose and Yeovilton) that last four days, which will give you a good insight.

Take with a pinch of salt the RN "officer first, aircrew second" - it's only true up to a point, and the reality is that they are hardly going to select and train a pilot and then make him spend most of his time in charge of the anchor party.

[minotur]

Based on my current perscription i would fail the RAF requirements but pass the RN. Unless the "bates method" works, which i highly highly doubt lol.

[Spam_UK]

Minotur,

Probably something you've already seen, but there is another RAF flying role in the WSOp's. It's not a commissioned role, but it can be just as rewarding and pays almost as well, and there is not talk yet of it ending! Plus there are more aircraft types to serve on.

Spam

[NRU74]

(Oh, and by the way, stand by for incoming flack from the spelling, grammar, and capitalisation policehttp://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif)
C'mon chaps - 15 posts and no comments so far !

[Pontius Navigator]

When did any aircraft ever go out of (or come into!!) service on time in the last 30 years?

Gift.

Sea Harrier

Jaguar

F3

Then there are the force cuts:

C130K
Nimrod
VC10

[AIDU]

Okay then, you are all thinking it so I'll say it.

I almost definatly want to join the military for various reasons. Im 22 and will hopefully have a degree in a few months(fingers crossed). Id love to be a pilot wether its FJ or not but unfortunatly im ever so slightly short sighted so im 99.9% sure the raf would reject me.
I have looked at the role as WSO but i have heard some very bad things being said, how they have a short shelf life, how all the fj's will soon be 1 manned, and how once your shelf life expires theres not realy any options available for you. Where as a pilot has civil aviation jobs available etc etc.
Ive read all this in various places including here but most of the threads are a few years old so i thought i would bring it up again.

Read some stuff about the FAA too, which my eyesight would be ok for but everyone has the opinion of "naval officer first pilot second". I realy would love even being in rotary though, But i think being an RAF officer appeals to me much more than being a naval officer.

Just want to know some opinions on the WSO role, is it realy as much of a dead end career as everyone says?

Not a very good start. Don't worry everybody he will have a degree. What in? Underwater basket weaving?

Next..............
i woudlnt mind the role of a WSO as the raf would be my preferd choice but obviously by the time im trained there will be no place on FJ for a WSO but still i wouldnt be too disheartened by that im more concerned about in 5-10 years there wont be any place for a WSO in the raf and it would be a dead end.

i just made a post but it needs to be accepted by a mod i think cos i posted a link so ill just repeat what i said there (as this post posted without awaiting approval) basically on a pdf titled raf_july_07 it states that the army/navy requirements to be a pilot are not as strict as the raf. (has the numbers for eyesight requirements etc ) and i would meet the requirements for rn/army but not raf eyesight.

Obviously once again im completly aware that you must adopt the opinion of "RN officer first pilot second" and i would never join a force just to use it as a stepping stone to be a pilot which is why im basically trying to find myself a place in the RAF where i would enjoy but obviously im concerned about the future role as a WSO.Is this really the type of person we should be encouraging?

And finally, as there are too many posts to comment on.................

yea wings i wasnt referring to it as if the raf wasnt officer first pilot second i meant i wouldnt mind officer first pilot second in the raf because it looks in general more of an appealing life to me. (Love the sea but not sure if id wanna live on a boat for ages?) lol.

Thanks for the advice i think i will take it and "go for it". Pilot then WSO and let them knock me down if my eyesight is a problem.I like the last bit about being knocked down for eyesight. I think you might have other problems as well. Can I be there when they read your application form?
I am only a humble Airman and even I can see he has no hope.

[scottyhs]

AIDU - Wind your neck in. Your assessment of the kind of "people the type of person we should be encouraging?" is hardly backed up by you slagging off somebody who has come onto this forum to ask an honest question.

If you have nothing better to do than to sit around and criticise others for their lack of grammar skills it begs the question of are you the kind of person we want???

[minotur]

Oh dear... i will have a degree in computer science not underwater basketing or whatever it was you said.

Why should you not want to encourage me to join the service?
I want to join the military because i want to challenge myself to my limits and serve my country and i am not motivated by sitting in an office for the rest of my life writing software with my degree in computer science.
There are plenty of reasons why i want to join thats why i said "various" reasons because im not here to explain to you why i want to join and why i would be an asset to the forces im here to ask some questions.

Dont even know why im making an attempt to explain myself, your obviously someone whos never happy. I love to proove myself so im tempted to send you my application form but on the other hand i dont think someone like you is worth it.

Its a forum im hardly gona faff about trying to write proper english grammer am i.


i type fast its a forum so i dont care about grammar and spelling in this instance.

Anyone whos sad enough to sit there correcting spelling mistakes on a forum or even think that i would send a job application off with spelling and gramatical errors is a deeply sad individual.

I have an A in gcse english. a B in A level english, and soon a computer science degree.
Theres a time a place for grammer. this is not it as far as im concerned.

I thought bus was havin a laff about the incoming FLAK grammar thing haha.

[vascodegama]

PN

SHAR maybe but the Jaguar was still in service way past its original OOD and the F3 still is. Wasn't the Nimrod due to be replaced by Nimrod 2000? The VC10 was due to have been replaced already and I guess the C130 is hanging on for the A400 (again late ).

[Pontius Navigator]

Vasco, I was stretching a point, but the Jag had had a major upgrade there could have been considered a premature retirement, certainly Jacko would say so.

The F3 looks as if it will be retired before the end of its useful life although many query whether it ever had a useful life in the first place. Certainly had EFA2000, like Nimrod 2000 arrived on time then the F3 would be gone and we would have had many more Nimrod.

My reference to Nimrod, VC10 and C130K was that they still have navs but only the Nimrod 4 will still have them. For a force of 12 you would be hard pushed to justify more than 48 WSO(N).

As a job, the Mk 1/2, was seen as pretty adjacent to a FJ Nav as far as skill sets were concerned.

[airborne_artist]

this is a forum, a type of chatroom and theres no need for highly correct grammar here

Have a look through the OASC sticky thread, and almost any other reasonably serious thread on this forum and you'll see that it's normal to use a conventional written style, not 21st C forum chat-speak. It's actually no harder to write, and displays a degree of respect for those whose opinions you are seeking ;)

[AIDU]

I have an A in gcse english. a B in A level english, and soon a computer science degree.
Theres a time a place for grammer. this is not it as far as im concerned.


This is exactly the time and place, as you are advertising yourself to those that read your posts. How can we expect to take you seriously if you can't even be bothered to check your spelling or grammar. Have a look in the thread where you should have asked your questions, obviously awareness isn't your strong point, and you will see people who are prepared to put a bit of effort in.

[foldingwings]

minotur,

Rest on your laurels and your classic education and a computer science degree might stand you in good stead in a 21st century air force - thankfully nobody on here is likely to be assessing your suitability for becoming an officer in any of the Services and some show their unsuitability for such a position by expressing their gripes and antipathy for the officer corps by hiding behind their anonymity on PPRuNe. Although, in fairness, he did admit to being an airman earlier on.

Foldie

[Halotope]

Hello,

I am only 15, yet I am very interested in joining the RAF after Uni. I need to ask a couple of questions however:

1) When training to become a pilot, do you have to do any sort of jumps out of a plane or parachuting etc??

2) Once you have completed your intial training can you choose which type of plane you fly as I looked on the RAF website yet it is unclear of a definate answer??

Thanks and I hope you can help...

[gashman]

you don't have to do any jumps, but the opportunities are there. If the thought of jumping from an aeroplane fills you with fear, do some things similar to that which will challenge your resolve. I only say that because the training system will often ask you to do things which you would not normally do, to try and expand your horizons and test your character under pressure. Use this time during your GCSE and A-Level years to expand your CV to help you get into a good university and secure a better career if the RAF doesn't work out for you. Being afraid of heights is not uncommon amongst aircrew, but how you deal with that fear (or any other) often marks out those who will be successful and those who fail.

As for choosing your aeroplane type, no you can't choose. You can express a preference, but it is the RAF which comes first. You may be the best elementary flying course they have ever seen, but if there are no spaces on your chosen course (helicopters for example), but they need multi-engined pilots, then you go to the multi course. Other things may also stop you. I had a friend who was an exceptional pilot only to find he had grown since joining up and when he went to RAF Valley to start flying the hawk, he was too big to fit and had to re-train as a multi-engine pilot. I'd say luck has a huge part to play in getting to the place you want to be in the RAF. Some of us are very lucky to have achieved that. Good luck and read the wannabes forum to get answers to everything else you wan to know.

[Fitter2]

and (with my pedant hat on, and aware that Shakespeare couldn't spell either), spell check anything you send regarding any application.

Most worthwhile careers have more applicants than places. Shortlisting has a range of criteria, and care in writing initial letters is an easy one to apply.

You might like to put your first post above through a spell checker.........

[Halotope]

Thanks gashman for your excellent advice.

You say you can be challenged and do things you wouldn't normally do in training. What can of things are you talking about?

Thanks again..

p.s Fitter2, I hope my spelling is up to your standard.....;)

[ArthurR]

Gashman gives good advice, when I joined the RAF, I was afraid of hights, so eventally I joined Mountain Rescue(RAF Valley), then I did a freefall course at Netheravon, It didn't cure my fear of hights, but I did learn that it was all in my head, the fear was my imagination,
luck to you, halotype. :ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

Try abseiling. That will test your susceptibility to acrophobia.

[gashman]

oh, I don't know, eating a worm omelette as part of the classroom theory to survival training, running a few miles with a pine-pole during PT at Cranwell, annual dunking in the sea to practice your dinghy drills (usually in January!), inverted spinning in a Tucano, conduct after capture training, formation at night in cloud for the first time, caving, sailing across the North Sea, getting shot at by people who want to kill you very much because you have been asked to fly over their country.

The variety of the list is just a taster. The point is, the Service has no idea what is going to happen to you during the times that they ask you to put your life in danger (or if that time will ever come), but the system tries to prepare you for those moments to see if you (when the chips are down and people are really stressed), can cope and be part of the team instead of having to be supported by that team. I've seen other air forces do what we do, and all of us ask that you prove that you are worthy before we adopt you into the family. Do "interesting stuff" now to avoid disappointment. Air Training Corps will introduce you to unusual activities and see if the discipline side of it will suit you. If it doesn't, you can join venture scouts or something similar to pad out the CV, and more importantly become a leading member of the community which you choose to live in.

[Double Zero]

In asking about jumps, I take it this is a concern to you...

I'm an aerial photographer, and am happy to hang half out of an aircraft at 2,000' on a slightly dodgy harness on a rope held by a chum, but until quite recently terrified if 15' up a ladder !

The fear of heights DOES wear off, and anway if one thinks about it, jumping ( with a parachute ) from an aircraft at height should be fine, wheras falling off a ladder etc might result in nasty long term injuries.

My advice, for what it's worth, would be to get as much time as poss' as passenger ( or ideally trainee pilot but not necessary for this ) in light aircraft.

One finds the height becomes abstract, and just a good vantage point.

If vertigo affects your balance, that's a different thing and needs a good check of the ears.

Don't be put off by this, and Good Luck,

DZ

[Pontius Navigator]

The one time I really experienced vertigo was when I was sitting on the floor of the aircraft, my legs dangling 'outside' the fuselage, actually in the ventral blister, and I was looking at the ground through the large bomb aimer's window. It gave the effect of sitting on the edge of a 4000 ft cliff.

Quite unnerving.

I still need a pee when at the edge of a cliff or tall building.

[Fitter2]

Halotape:

What can of things are you talking about?

7/10, some way to go.

All the posts are good experience based advice - but mainly to read the sticky thread at the top, that's what it's there for.

If you try mind and body stretching experiences, and still want to go for the career, good luck. If you find it's not for you, then the efforts will not be wasted, whatever you do.

[Flik Roll]

Agreed. Meltchett's advice is spot on because 9 times out of 10, they'll start going off on a tangent from your topic to another one - if you read a broadsheet/economist/the week cover to cover you should be covered :ok:

I'll give an example - I spoke about Trident as one of my 'home' topics and ended up talking about Iran and the nuclear threat as a result. Then from Iran I think we ended up in Israel :eek:

[Wader2]

Hi guys, I've heard about the navalised Typhoon argument, and the problems with A400

Problems, yes, but what is the significance? Are there alternatives? What are the arguments for the alternatives? What is your opinion?

but I'm not really familiar with the Sea Harrier-Jaguar-F3 argument.

There are pages on each of these in pprune.

Once you know the 'facts', such as they are, you might like to form an opinion. Was the decision correct? Did it achieve what it set out to do? Is the alternative viable?

Are these airframes out or going out of service without the replacements realy being in place? Jag is gone, Harrier being replaced by JCA and F3 by Typhoon?

Some might say that replacements were not in place. Others that they will soon be in place. Others again that they were not needed.

There was one type, entirely suited to operations in Germany and wholly unsuited to operations in theatre. The former Defence Secretary, when he found out, wanted them withdrawn immediately.

See what I am driving at? Find out the fact then fomr an opinion; don't expect us to give you our opinions.

[FNU_SNU]

Thanks for the reply Wader2, I just wanted to make sure I was singing off the right song sheet. I'd neither want, nor expect to be 'given' an opinion per se, I woulnd't be a good analyst if I did - don't worry I usually have my own opinion!!
However listening to other people's opinions when they know better than me will help to form my own opinion; after all, is that not what happens during the fusion phase in an all-sources cell? You could argue that intelligence is information mixed with informed opinion.
The so called 'facts' can often just be opinion with a large dose of spin anyway.
I'll crack on seaching through the treads and see what I can dig up.

[britmax]

Hi guys,

I got back from oasc 4th april,waiting on pilot decision still. Found out one guy got in(pilot) and another rejected(pilot), got their decisions a week ago. I've had nothing apart from a failed blood test letter which is quite common. I know the raf only got my medical history questionnaire today(dam slow doctor posting it) and was wondering if they don't make a decision till they recieved that? or if it would be the case they would wait till blood test done again,however they told one guy to re-test blood then 2 days later he got another letter to come back in 12months decision anyway. Anyhow, the wait is killing me and wondering how long it's taking for some people to hear. i also know could be in the sift, but you still recieve a letter for this i take it.
Cheers:ok:

[Amnesia180]

Hi all,

I've got a quick question regarding EAWs.

During my Formal Interview (the filter from AFCO to OASC) I have been told I will be tested on my knowledge of my chosen careers WSOp and SNCO ATC, my knowledge of the RAF in general and my Background. These are the dominant topics of the interview (current affairs will not be tested in depth, but I will need to show an awareness of my surroundings).

Anyway; I've been reading as much information as possible, constantly checking back to the RAF website and am starting to read through current Operations (Herrick/Telic) and I've come across EAWs. Now according to the RAF website it says that 903 EAW is providing Merlin helicopters, operating from Basrah and Puma support in Baghdad. Now, if I then go back to the main Op Telic part of the website, it lists a whole bunch of other aircraft (including TriStar, C17, Tornado... etc).

So, my question to you is this; Is the 903 EAW only responsible for providing these two types of Aircraft (plus the RAF Regiment involvement) to Basrah and Baghdad?).

The reason I ask, is because I'm getting my head into a bit of a spin trying to understand the full involvement of these EAWs and whether or not I should just be learning the Operations and their goals or going into as much detail as possible.

My interview is in 2 and a half weeks! Excited! :ok:

[Amnesia180]

Just an addition to my post above ^.
I've done some searching on google and have found that an EAW is located at 9 RAF Bases around the UK, and to boil it down to basics; they're their for operational effectiveness. Meaning that all the support functions from those particular EAWs know each other, work together and are familiar with each other. They'll be operationally effectiveness which means the RAF can be out on Operation wherever in the world they are needed, because the "crews" are already pretty efficient! (i.e: RAF Leuchars is 125 EAW and has a supply function, force protection, group support, comms, media personnel [and many more] which can move out as 'One', including the Tornado F3).


Right, on a different note;
I've been trying to get my general knowledge up as much as possible. Here's what I've been looking at so far.


My background! (Work history, educations, activities)
RAF background.
Knowledge on WSOp and SNCO ATC
NATO (Amount of countries and current objectives)
Expeditionary Air Wings
Op TELIC
Op HERRICK
UK Air Defence objectives
Reading 'The Week' weekly, and reading the Guardian daily, as well as keeping on top of other current affairs.



Would you suggest I'm on the right lines?

[Daz1985]

Your bang on the mark Amnesia, however the following may be useful to you also...

Bases: Where located and what’s located there. (Including those overseas and their function i.e. Ascension Island/ Cyprus etc.)

Ongoing operations outside of Herrick/Telic.

There’s also a list somewhere in the thread (which is very worthwhile going through completely from start to finish at the weekend) with all the possible questions you could be asked. My advice is to print them out, write down answers to each in bullet points, and learn the whole damn thing off, worked wonders for me :)

[Amnesia180]

Good idea about bases and other ops. But I think it's quite a lot to cram in for 2 weeks time, do you think my FI will expect me to know about where all the bases are and what is stationed there?

Although I'm sure if I start by learning where they are, that will help. I've got a map of the UK and a map of the World, i'll mark on there all the bases!

[Daz1985]

2 Weeks is plenty of time to get everything learned.

If my memory serves me correctly, one of the possible questions is along the lines of "where are we based overseas." If you're capable of recalling those, with the added bonus of what they are used for, you will get the "he knows what he's talking about" nod, and they will move onto something else.

They are trying to see how motivated to join you are, the more effort they realise you have put in, the more they know how badly you want that job. Once they know you have a section covered, they will move to something else, so knowing lots can only be beneficial, because if you start faffing answers you don't know the answer too... it's bad juju! Speaking of which, if you don't know the answer to a certain question, tell them the truth and they will move on, the last thing you want is to make yourself look foolish.

The more you learn, the more comfortable you will feel, the less nervous you will be, and the extra confidence you will enjoy.

[ScrumpyJ]

Does anyone know what sort of drop-out rate the cadets on IOT have at all? And the failure rate of Pilots during specialist training too?

[Pontius Navigator]

Does anyone know what sort of drop-out rate the cadets on IOT have at all? And the failure rate of Pilots during specialist training too?

Scrumpy, by drop out do you mean 'voluntarily withdrawn from training'? This is analogous to a university drop-out. If you are wondering if you will be a drop-out then perhaps better not to start.

If, OTOH, you mean 'chop rate' then that is for us to worry about not for you. Your job is to do the best you can and to pass the courses. Our job is to equip you as best we can to do just that.

In IOT there is no planned chop-rate. May be one or two will VWFT; may be one or two will suffer medical failures - simply just not fit enough. May be one or two might have slipped through the AFOC/OASC filters but overall the aim is to pass all entrants out; may be not first time but ultimately.

In pilot training it is entirely up to you. You may prove to have insufficient aptitude but more likely a lack of capacity. I hesitate to put a number to this as my own direct knowledge is well out of date. Statisically it may well be valid but for any one course you cannot predict with any certainty the actual rates.

You do YOUR best and your instructors will do THEIR best.

[ScrumpyJ]

Thanks, and no i wasnt being negative at all. I was just interested as to whether a large portion of cadets failed the course or if most passed.

[The_Scientist]

Firstly, Hi. This is my first post and was hoping for some advice from any RAF personnel. Sorry if there has been a similar thread.

I've finished my GCSEs, going onto A-levels and i've always wanted to join the RAF as a Officer, in rotary or fixed wing as a pilot, however I cannot due to slight shortsightedness. :ugh:

I then thought of joining as a WSO, something that I never really thought of, but it's similar to the role of a pilot, just without the control or flying of the aircraft (so not that similar really).

I posed this idea to my father (an ex Puma pilot) and he dismissed the idea very quickly saying WSOs were second class citizens compared to Pilots in the RAF and grey men who have a chip on their shoulder (his words, not mine).

I'm looking at the role as a alternative to being a Pilot and the start of a career as a officer in the RAF, I would like to work my way up the ranks maybe into Operations or having a command role.

What are peoples opinions of the job? Is being an Observer in the RN similar?

Thanks for any help.

[muppetofthenorth]

First, check the big thread at the top of the page, it's not just similar, but identical.

Secondly, eyesight rules have recently changed so that the requirements for Pilot in the RAF are the same as Pilot in the RN, so it could be worth checking that out against your own prescription.

Ignore your Dad [well, to an extent]... If you want something, look into it and go for it.


Also check out http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk (http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/) 's Armed Forces forum for other pearls of wisdom.

[StopStart]

Your father is clearly a legend! :ok:

Seriously though and notwithstanding the banter, nav/WSO on fast pointy things would be a pretty rewarding job if you couldn't drive the thing.

Don't just default to fourth or fifth best and end up "working" in Ops going slowly mad without at least trying all the flying avenues. If Nav really isn't your cup of tea then what about WSOp? Crewman on a helo or loady on a herc/C17? Both good jobs well worth considering.

:)

[Pontius Navigator]

How short sighted? WSO in the back of a GR4 have almost the same view as the guy in the front. This means they need to have eyesight to match. Regardless of the tests the real tests will come during training.

[airborne_artist]

RN aircrew eyesight standards:

http://www.aop.org.uk/uploaded_files/navy.pdf

[Pontius Navigator]

TS, I think your knowledge and perceptions are undeveloped. I think to benefit from Pprune you need to do a little more research into the roles of WSO/WSOp and the Ops Support Branch.

When you have a cleared idea what the differences are then you can start to ask more informed questions. For starters, you should find out about 6th Form Scholarships. Your Dad should have given you a better insight than appears the case, or is he testing your resolve?

[Braddersb]

Anyone on here completed or undergoing a sixth form scholarship with the raf?
I am in the application process at the moment, and looking for advice.:ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

You may get some advice here but also look here:

Raf 6th form scholarships - The Student Room (http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=530980)

[ElSupremo]

Hey everyone, just a quick question - what level of eyesight do the RN and RAF require for pilots? 20/20, 20/15 or 20/10?

[Pontius Navigator]

El S, why do you ask?

I see a recent post I haven't yet applied to either the Navy or RAF (I'm going to wait until I finish this year in uni).

You were asking about asthma a year ago, have you resolved that issue?

Really, given your age, you should apply for both RAF and RN NOW! and let them sort out whether you are medically suitable. When you know the results you will know how essential a good result in your law studies will be.

[ElSupremo]

Hey,

Unfortunately I haven't had much of a chance to sort the asthma problem out because since I started my 4th year in law school (i.e. the Legal Practice Course) I've not had a minute to breathe (no pun untended!). I have a temporary rest bite from the end of June until September (when I have more exams) so I will probably go about sorting everything out then.

I appreciate that this might be a difficult question with any degree of accuracy but if I visited the RN/RAF offices in a few weeks how long would it take for me to know whether I'd been successful or not? I ask as I'm wondering whether to do this in June or September (I don't really want the application process to interfere when I've got exams).

[Mr C Hinecap]

The word is 'respite'.

Get down to the careers office ASAP and don't waste time! You are not getting younger, competition is strong and you need to get the official answer on a few things.

Keep us informed - theres a good chap. :ok:

[Braddersb]

Calum, the deadline for applications is around november, i have had the filter interview with the afco and he said that i will get the application form to send back around the beggining of june. I've heard that different regions do the process on a slightly different timescale thats why you may be applying in august:\
What branch you applying for?

[Pontius Navigator]

AFCO routines.

Just a thought for you wanabees.

Remember that your results come through in the summer holidays. Then there is a rush on the AFCOs; you have to form an orderly queue.

AFCO are people too. They have children and they too expect to go on holiday in the summer. It follows that many will be short staffed as you queue at the door.

The sooner you start the better both you and they will be able to manage the process.

Many ask on time scales. They vary but one I know was graduation in July, an initial approach by the RN in October. First AFCO that week. RAF AFCO 4 weeks later. AIB in April and OASC 3 weeks later. Acceptance within 2-3 weeks in each case. Start OASC in September.

A very simple, straight forward process, but over 12 months from graduation and almost 12 months to start training. So, for all you wanabee pilots, you need to start a good 12 months before that age cut-off.

[calumwm]

I'm applying for pilot. I was told to apply after I've had my GCSE results back, on the 27th of Aug, but before Nov.
I made my CO laugh when I said I'd go straight to the AFCO as soon as I had my results :p
So he basically said I can't start the app process at all without results :(

Also, I had my results back for part 1 of the BTec CVQO diploma in Public Services, and I got a distinction which equates to an A*. However, I'm told I can choose to have 4 GCSE A*'s or one whole A level (I assume A*), which would be more beneficial?

[Braddersb]

"However, I'm told I can choose to have 4 GCSE A*'s or one whole A level (I assume A*), which would be more beneficial?"

I doubt it would make a huge difference, which one you chose.:) When you say your CO do you mean to do with CCF? I am also applying for pilot. Has your afco mentioned whether you are a required to to go to oasc before the scholarship, because i have heard that some applicants last year didnt have to undergo a medical for example...?

[Pontius Navigator]

calum, I agree with Bradder, as long as you get the 5 GCSE A-C incl Eng/Maths and any 2 A-level then you are qualified to go to OASC.

What your choice actually offers is a good interview argument. "So Calum, why did you opt for . . . ?"

[calumwm]

Bradders, yes, CCF. Are you in cadets?
The AFCO cpl wasn't particulaly helpful, he simply said about 70 people apply nationwide but only 4 get the scholarship - but - if you try and fail there's no harm done. He also said there is a presentation involved, and that I need to know everything eg: current A/C, future A/C (JSF and Sentinel) and stations etc, which I'm really clued up about after NGTC finals at Cranwell.
PN, I think I may go for the GCSE's, I'm currently doing 10, I'm estimating 2 A*, 4 A's and maybe 4 B's. I only got 2 C's in the mock, and I've fixed that now and have been told I'm at a B for art and german, so I'm not too worried :cool: :p

[muppetofthenorth]

The AFCO cpl wasn't particulaly helpful, he simply said about 70 people apply nationwide but only 4 get the scholarship

Those numbers, well, the first one at least, sounds a bit optimistic!

When I applied for the 6th Form Schol [unsuccessfully, I might add] there were upwards of 400 applicants with only 4 winners. Of that 400 about 50-70 were sent to OASC, but I'm lead to believe that stage doesn't happen anymore.

[Braddersb]

"400 applicants with only 4 winners."

Wow now they are odd, i still will apply though. When you say 4 winners was that for all branches, or 4 winners who selected pilot. If not then i suspect that out of those '4 winners' that it would be lucky if any applied for pilot.

"Of that 400 about 50-70 were sent to OASC, but I'm lead to believe that stage doesn't happen anymore."

Hopefully that isnt the case as i feel oasc would be useful, as there may be something beyond my control i.e medical that could prevent me from being a pilot, which would be a huge blow, but if it is inevitable, better to get out of the way now than later.

[muppetofthenorth]

Forgice me if I'm hazy with the details, but it was [academic year] '00-'01 when I applied, but yes, four winners. Three pilots and one engineer.

Again, I'm a bit out of touch with the processes for a 6FS, having not looked into it in any serious way for about seven years, but I seem to recall that applicants for it no longer took part in the whole OASC, but a shortened segment. ie [something like], aptitude and hangar exercises only.

[Hamilton_Fox]

When I went through for a SFS, there were a hell of a lot of people. Don't know about the figures like 400 odd, but I can only guess. Nor do I know how many SFS there were in the end, but surely the numbers at Grantown on Spey would give you a fairly big clue - saying that, lol, I didn't manage to get there, prior commitment, anyone here want to say something about the number of people that attended the 2 week intro to leadership there? Might help with the figure guessing :bored:.

As for the shortened process, that's not what I did. As far I as I know we all did the same 4 day OASC process just like everybody else. In fact, if I remember correctly, there were one or two people, out of twenty odd in the group, that were engineer uni-bursary candidates coming back to OASC to try and transfer to pilot...and something about paying the £4k a year back to the RAF if successful at transfer because of contract breech, but that was just talk and heresay :ooh:. Point was, they did the same OASC we did.

[not_so_sis]

Hi,
In my efforts to have a full knowledge of all the pilot training routes ready for when I get to OASC I have found a bit of a gap in my literature on what happens coming from EFT during the single engine Advanced rotary wing training which is the second phase with 705 NAS, also after 60 (r) sqn at SARTU?
No real detail needed, just a basic outline. I understand its a bit boring but I would find it very helpful.
Thank you.

[Hamilton_Fox]

not_so_sis

I've got a PowerPoint presentation of the whole lot mapped out really nicely, giving detailed overview of all pipelines from all services + timescales + individual squadrons. I've just had a quick check on the internet and can't find where I got it from, but PM me your e-mail address and I'll send it to you as an attachment, it's only 106KB.

[not_so_sis]

yeah that would be a great help, I have been making a folder with literally everything you could possibly think of, re writing everything i get my hands on, but a nice presentation would be great ill PM you my e-mail address.
Cheers

[Fraser_B]

Hi Guys

I've been predicted a 1st going into the final year of my BEng civil engineering degree in september, having also completed an extended engineering foundation year (which I also achieved a 1st in) as I didn't have the relevant A-Levels, either maths or physics, to get onto an engineering degree (my A-Level results weren't exactly spectacular either)

Would having a good grade in my degree and foundation year (which was basically A-level standard maths and physics) mean that A-level results were overlooked when applying for pilot in the Navy or RAF

Thanks for the help :)

[airborne_artist]

You still need 180 UCAS points, and a C or above in an English GCSE, but the UCAS points can include AS levels (but not double counting the AS and A2 in the same subject, obviously).

Your 1st in your degree will be very positive, and I doubt they will be fussed about A level grades so long as you meet the minimum points score. They do not care about the A-level/degree subjects - though clearly Maths skills are needed to pass the aptitude tests.

Aircrew Officer (Pilot and Observer) : Careers / Roles : Royal Navy (http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/careers/careers-roles/aircrew-officer-(pilot-and-observer)/)

[Mackay]

Hi guys,

Its my first post on the forum and thought I would ask about recruiting into Aircrew for the Royal Navy.

I got a letter a few months ago from the Surgeon Commander down at HMS Gosport about his concerns with the level of medication I have been prescribed for Hay Fever (Tablets, Nasal Spray, and Eye drops. Which my GP explained to me as being a generic prescription.)

I have been given the year 2011 where I will be allowed to reapply if I wish, that's the year I finish University so there shouldn't be a major issue there - I'm fully prepared to wait.

I asked him, probably quite naively, whether there was a possibility that I could get all the application processes out the way and then joined when classed 'fit' to do so. He explain it was not ordinarily the case when people were permitted to apply when deemed unfit?

So I was wandering what were the cases when 'Unfit' applicants were able to apply?

Cheers,

Matt

[airborne_artist]

You are much better off asking that Q here:

The Navy Net: Rum Ration Forums General Newbies (http://www.navy-net.co.uk/Forums/viewforum/f=24.html)

The forum moderator works in an RN AFCO.

[Mackay]

Thanks, I will do.

[Pontius Navigator]

MacKay, a possibility that I could get all the application processes out the way and then joined when classed 'fit' to do so applying logic and reason (often virtues overlooked by staff officers) I would expect a NO.

A no because medical is one of the primary filters. To go through the rest of the process you would be 'taking' someone else's place in the process at a cost to the Service and potential denial of a place for a fit recruit.

The Service would be incurring possibly nugatory expense and you might even be rejected when, with more maturity you might pass first time.

Best you do your degree, enjoy university and prepare yourself.

[Mackay]

Thanks, Im certainly cracking on with my degree, getting experience under my belt, and the whole (Hopefully) maturing. So we will see when 2011 rolls in. :ok:

I was curious of any circumstances when this has been allowed?

[airborne_artist]

I beleive that the RN demands four years symptom-free of hayfever, so I can't see that you have any choice. In addition an AIB pass has only 12 months' validity, so there really is no way you can short-circuit the system.

[Green Flash]

Matt

I'll second Ponts advice. Either join your local RNR unit (or even UAS?) and immerse yourself in whatever colour of blue that would suit your plans. That way you can go back to the military in the future with (hopefully) a wealth of experience in things military and proof of your commitment. Thereafter, it's a matter of keeping your fingers crossed medical-wise. Sometimes the cruel seagull of fate will splash a big one in your soup and there ain't much you can do about it! Hope it all works out for you, good luck.

[Mackay]

Thats exactly what I've done so far, Ive joined the local RNR unit HMS Vivid in Devonport (What an ideal location), and have the taken the opportunity to join the HMS Seahawk Gliding Club at RNAS Culdrose (There are closer gliding clubs to me, but I particularly liked the feel of being on the base).

Just going for my CO's reccomendation for Officer Training, so I'll see how that goes.

Thanks, I'll see how it goes in few years :ok:

[Dengue_Dude]

Mysteriously (ahem) my hayfever developed AFTER I went aircrew. You may not be able to actually DO that, but it worked for me. Once they've spent a load of money on you, they view it differently.

Mind you, I trained as aircrew in 1973 when standards were a lot lower (I ACTUALLY meant medical standards, but perhaps it was a Freudian slip).

Even now I take non-drowsy medication which was prescribed with the full knowledge of the CAA, medication is Cetirizine (no I'm not suggesting you take it, just that 'acceptable' medication is available)

Good luck

[Mackay]

The thing is I haven't been on any medication for three years, the only symptoms I've got now are sneezing a few times a day, albeit it was worse 10 years ago. They've got a huge pool of applicants and want to choose people who aren't possible liabilities. So i reckon because I've got hayever down on my record I'm off to a distinct disadvantage.

[Pontius Navigator]

Dude, unfortunately he is on record. Only hope is lack of hay at sea :}

[206Fan]

Gona hijack your post for a bit fraser :O

Not all courses and qualifications, especially those at BTEC or of a more vocational nature, are suitable for inclusion within this 180 points total.Does this mean only certain BTEC courses (Maths Related) are suitable for inclusion within the points that the navy will accept?

I contacted the navy about the grades side of things aswel because i don't have the A levels either so they said an alternate would be to do a Btec National Diploma which im starting this sept at college (Electrical Engineering course). Thou im still confused whether i need the GCSE maths and english on top of this aswel?

Cheers

[airborne_artist]

Does this mean only certain BTEC courses (Maths Related) are suitable for inclusionYes, so check that your course is acceptable.

im still confused whether i need the GCSE maths and english on top of thisYou still need passes in Maths and English GCSEs regardless of whether you have A-levels or BTECs to make up your UCAS points score. To be very honest I'd be surprised if someone struggling to get a C in GCSE Maths would stand a chance in the aptitude tests. Equally a candidate with only a C in English may struggle in the AIB written assessments.

[206Fan]

AA

Thanks for your reply! :)

[Sierra Hotel]

I am aware that upon completion of occifer training, graduates are given seniority based on the length of their degree course. However, does a 4 year course leading to a Masters give the officer 4 years seniority, or 3 years seniority as it is beyond a Batchelors degree.

Saw something about it a while back in an RAF careers info booklet, but it was not very precise in its wording. (I take it that this applies to the Fleet Air Arm as well?)

Many Thanks
S

[muppetofthenorth]

However, does a 4 year course leading to a Masters give the officer 4 years seniority, or 3 years seniority as it is beyond a Batchelors degree.

The example I've always been quoted is the following:

3 friends would join the Air Force.

The first DE after their A Levels.
The second GE after a 3 yr course.
The third GE after a 4yr [Masters] course.

All would reach Flight Lieutenant at the same time.

I think I'm right in saying that that means the person completing their Masters gets to FLt just a year after graduating IOT.

[buemphil]

I have been told by someone that had just completed their IOT that they would serve a week as a Pilot Officer, and then be promoted to Flying Officer as they had a BSc.

He said that with a Masters I would then be given further promotion to Flight Lieutenant around 9 months after getting Flying officer. I haven’t seen this in any literature though, so cant be sure.

To be honest I just want to get in the service and worry about promotion when I’m in. It does make sense to reward advanced education in this way I feel.

[Sierra Hotel]

It wouldnt affect any descisions about joining, i was just wondering. For a graduate straight out of uni, its not too bad pay either way.

[buemphil]

The pay does seem good, especially after speaking to an officer the other day. He said he had worked out that the cheap living costs (while living in the mess, I assume) amount to a saving of around £10,000 a year.....which is nice! :)

[Melchett01]

SH,

As has already been said, worry about getting in first. But that's not to say you shouldn't also consider ToS.

Just because you have a 4yr degree, don't bank on getting enhanced seniority. I joined up at a time when they had little white pamphlets - Pam Air something or other which set out ToS and how long you would serve in each rank depending on your qualifications on joining up.

However, they belonged in the fiction section of the Cranwell Station Library as very few branch sponsors adhered to the policy set out in there. Had a very good friend with a 4 yr MA from Edinburgh who should have got enhanced seniority. However, her branch sponsor categorically refused it because she was on a 4 yr undergrad course rather than an undergrad cse + one year postgrad.

Not that having a postgrad MSc did me much good either. Despite the policy being set out in the relevant Pam AIR, I had to apply for the extra year seniority, got it, then when my branch sponsor changed, he decided it wasn't relevant (how is Meteorology qualification not relevant to the Air Force :\) and took it all back off me. It was only through a lot of arguing that I managed to keep 6 months extra seniority.

They will do what they want when they want. If they want to attract you or keep you, you might be in luck. But given the current economic climate, they will probably feel they can be more robust in what conditions of service they offer people. Even without the extra year, you will still be getting a reasonable package by most standards.

[ElSupremo]

RE: Degrees

So what would to someone like me had done a 3 year law degree and then a 1 year post-grad law course which wasn't a masters (it was a Diploma - i.e the Legal Practice Course).

[airborne_artist]

El S - no masters = no additional seniority, I'm pretty certain.

[ElSupremo]

Oh right, so what advantage (to a lay person) does having a degree give you in terms of seniority? Where do ranks start without a degree and how many steps up do graduates start at? Additionally, is any of the training time reduced?

[airborne_artist]

No reduction in training time. Read the RAF recruitment info.

Essentially the services don't want to discourage graduates from applying, so they credit their time on their studies as seniority, recognising that while they may not have picked up professional knowledge (stand fast engineers, medics etc.) they have developed as individuals more than if they had bummed on a beach.

[Melchett01]

ES,

Ask these questions by all means, but don't get hung up on them - see the bigger picture. I mean would you really turn down a slot for your dream job just because of a few extra months on some seniority chart?

At the end of the day, a degree will mean you get to Flt Lt at roughly the same time of life / age as someone who comes in from school. That is the point of it. It is not to say that you are in some way better than someone without a degree, but that you are bringing qualifications rather than life experience to the organisation. We need academically strong individuals as much as we need common sense individuals (the 2 can be different!) it isn't fair to penalise either one for their choice in life made at 17/18, hence the concept of additional seniority.

There will be no reduction in training time, you will just go through training in a different rank. But if you want to distill it down to the absolute basics, you will get paid more than your less senior contemporaries, but equally more will be expected from you because of your rank. And speaking from experience, it can leave you feeling vulnerable as people will expect you to perform in the rank they see on your shoulders not necesarily based on your experience.

[Daws_69]

Hi all
sorry if this question has already been asked, but can you apply for more than one force at a time (i.e. RAF and Navy)? And is there a limit on how many times you can apply for both of these (other than of course the upper age limit). Finally, if you're at an interview at either one, and they ask you "are you considering the Navy/RAF"? Should you tell them if you are, or just lie and say your not
Thanks any answers appreciated :)

[Wader2]

Hi all
sorry if this question has already been asked,

It has.

but can you apply for more than one force at a time (i.e. RAF and Navy)?

Yes.

And is there a limit on how many times you can apply for both of these (other than of course the upper age limit).

Yes

Finally, if you're at an interview at either one, and they ask you "are you considering the Navy/RAF"? Should you tell them if you are, or just lie and say your not
Thanks any answers appreciated :)

Yes

[Daws_69]

concise and to the point. Thanks

[PBI]

I don't think this has been covered yet.

I went to OASC at 17, and was told to come back with essentialy more life experience.I have been at University for 2 years, but have just taken a year out as I am mobilised with the RAF Regiment.

Now to be honest, I am not enjoying my time at University, and have no real interest in the subject I am studying.My question is this.

How would OASC view me dropping out of University, and going again for NCA, providing I had good reports from my 3 years as a reservist and my year on the regular sqn?

[Wader2]

PBI, with open arms I would imagine.

[airborne_artist]

I'm sure Wader is right, but the alternative is to knuckle down, complete your final year (assuming you are not at a Scottish uni?) and then apply for a commission. A commissioned graduate in any branch of any of the Services joins (yes joins...) on £29,006 pa. Your reserves experience should breeze you through much of OASC.

There's a lad who was on Pprune this time last year who was a TA Para L/Cpl (whilst at university, also mobilised for Telic), who also found OASC very straightforward, and is now starting flying training as a baby GD (P). PM me if you'd like his contact info - I'm sure he'd be happy to talk to you.

[Slinky1989]

Hey guys,

I'm looking at going into the RAF either as ground crew or ATC (would like to be a pilot but no idea if I'd pass the aptitude tests so trying to be realistic).

I left school last year after completing my A-levels (left with 7 GCSEs A - C grade and 2 A levels) and have since spent half of the last year partly in a touring metal band and the other half working full time.

I'm just wandering what sort of things they'll expect of me and what sort thing they're looking for atm. I've wanted to go into the RAF and aviation from a young age, but there are so many roles to choose from, I'm not sure what to go for (except for ATC which I find interesting anyway).

Any pointers as to what they're particularly looking for atm and if academically and experience wise, I have the right stuff?

[airborne_artist]

Start at the top and work down. Have you got 180 UCAS points from your A-levels? That's the minimum to apply for a commission in any of the Services. If you have the points (and Maths and English GCSEs) then there is nothing stopping you applying for a commissioned aircrew/ATC role.

RAF Careers home - jobs, recruitment and career opportunities in the RAF - RAF Careers (http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers/) is a good place to start.

[Wader2]

Pilot, ATC and ABM are all aptitude skills jobs with th eonly real difference being medical employment standards and anthromorphics (will you fit the cockpit?). You should look at other branches as well.

[PBI]

Thank you for the replies.It is Scottish University, so I have another 2 possibly 3 years left to do.By which time I would be 25.

As I say OASC is at least a year away yet as I have only just started PDT, but it is something I thought worth lookin ginto now.

a_a

Those details would be very useful, as they say it's not what you know but who you know!

[airborne_artist]

PBI - check incoming

[Slinky1989]

Thanks airbourne artist, unfortunately I think my UCAS points only add up to about 160 I think.

Also I don't think I'm able to actually fit in the fast jet cockpits as I'm 6ft 3 lol. Maybe something like a c17 but I'd probably have trouble in a eurofighter.

I can imagine weapons systems operator being something I'd enjoy aswell and only need 5 gcse's and since I have a gcse in french included (and they like you to have the aptitude to learn foreign languages according to the RAF site) I'd probably do well.

[airborne_artist]

6'3" is no barrier to FJ - tallest in the Harrier I know of is/was 6'6", so unless you have a very long back and terminal duck's disease, it won't on its own stop you. Clearly the A levels can, though if you have 160 points already, then an AS level taken pronto could get you above 180.

Language aptitude is only needed for WSOp linguists. Not required for Loadies.

[ScrumpyJ]

N.B. Previous posts are incorrect. The RAF only requires candidates applying for commission to have 2 A Levels. Grades E and above. AS levels are not considered to be a subsitute, i.e. two AS doesnt not count for one A.

[Slinky1989]

So my Grade C in Geography and D in biology A-levels are ok then? :)

[2078OWHC]

Im 16 and been looking forward to a possible career as a fast jet pilot, somthing that i has been my dream since i was 5 years old. I recently discovered that hayfever may stop me from carrying on with this possible career. I have never been tested for hayfever, so it is not on my medical record, although in my younger years i did suffer from it for a couple of weeks in June. However over the past few years my symptoms have become less serious and they are now practically nothing. I sneeze once or twice a day and my eyes do not itch or water (this is during peak hayfever times). Hopefully, fingers crossed my hayfever will disapper by the time i leave University. Would i be able to not inform the RAF careers about my hayfever if it has disappaeared? Also are there any possible medicines or methods to completely remove my hayferever?
Any replies would be much appreciated, thanks for your time =)

[bowly]

What hayfever? Deny everything....

[airborne_artist]

If you've not been diagnosed, then how do you know it's hayfever? Sounds like a summer cold - wash your hands more often. :ok:

[gashman]

Keep schtum, it will only raise questions and you don't need the selection process to be any more stressful or drawn out than it already is. For what it's worth, I developed my "summer cold" one summer a few years ago, having been in the RAF for several years. It doesn't stop me doing my job, the offices and cockpits I work in are air conditioned. Deployed field ops might be a pain in the arse, and I'd suspect some of our rotary crews have issues with pollen. The bottom line though is that once in, you become an expensive asset which can be treated with drugs to control the symptoms. I think you can call it what it is now, rather than a "summer cold".