OASC 'CANDIDATES' and WANNABES, PLEASE READ THIS THREAD FIRST!

[mooneyjosh]

Hi there, I hope this is the right forum. I have always aspired to be a pilot since the age of about 7 in the armed forces. I have a dream to become a Red Arrows pilot one day but also, I would like to become a search and rescue pilot because I want to help people and help save lives. I would like to hear your opinions on which career could be best and will appriciate it a lot. Thanks.

[Pontius Navigator]

I have a dream to become a Red Arrows pilot one day but also, I would like to become a search and rescue pilot because I want to help people and help save lives.

These roles are mutually exclusive. A Red Arrows pilot is an RAF fast-jet pilot. A SAR pilot is rotary wing and by the time you are old enough will not be an RAF organisation but a civilian one. That will increase the gap in your aspirations.

[Aerouk]

Josh,

If you do get into the RAF/RN (which isn't easy) then it will be the RAF/RN that decides which area of flying you'll be going into, not you.

ElSupremo,

Still no definite answer then :ugh:

[OneFifty]

Apologies if this has been addressed earlier but the general rule we use at the AFCO is if you have had anything on prescription in the last FOUR years then we won't process your application any further. If you are prescription free for the previous 4 years, then we will process your application and pass you to OASC who will test and decide. A note from your GP may help the OASC Dr make that decision.

[Pontius Navigator]

Following on from a different thread, the education qualification for aircrew used to be 4 GCE and for officer aircrew 5 GCE, both including maths and english.

For aspirants hoping for a full career and proper training at Sleaford Tech, they also needed 2 A-levels.

These were in the days when GCE was a rigourous academic syllabus and media studies was an unknown term. The levels were set to ensure applicants had the basic academic skills and were thus a reasonable training risk.

When Sleaford Tech went fully comp and anyone could aspire to a full career the two A-level requirement was brought in for all officers. AS simply does not cut the mustard. Neither does an Honours degree if you don't have maths and english at GCSE.

To summarise - no history of asthma. Medically fit. All the academic requirements. Under the upper age limit. Normal anthropomorphic measurements. Physically Fit. Be in UK for the requisite number of years. As the recruiting target for pilot is very low but the number of suitable applicants is very high, there is no requirement to accommodate those that do not meet the rigorous requirements for selection.

If you are at school, study hard, play hard. If at university don't do a 4 year degree after a gap year - you will dip out.

[airborne_artist]

PN - and for BRNC on a SCC/MCC the same applied - five O-levels inc Maths and English - only GL (no aircrew option on joining) had to have A-levels.

SL shags could join at 17 and six months too. There were several RN FJ carrier-deck qual'd drivers, airframe who were 20 on receipt of their ticket, though that was long before my time, sadly.

And there was no pre-joining fitness test (does that apply to the light blue, yet?), and smoking was nearly compulsory :E

[Pontius Navigator]

A_A, aye, we had no fitness test then either but they do now. I remember I had no idea where Habbanyia was and the wg cdr made great play that the sqn ldr had lost his baggage there.

Little did I know at the time but just 6 years later I would be looking at target sheets for H3 and Habbanyia :}.

[OneFifty]

Fitness tests for P2 candidates prior to attending OASC is about to be introduced. We believe, although no guidance has been seen yet, that it will be the same as the P3 candidate’s fitness test, around 12 minutes for a 1.5 mile run (on a tread-mill), give or take depending on age.

[Aerouk]

OneFifty,

Is that for the RN or RAF?

According to Headquartes Air Command; I spoke to them a couple of weeks ago, they basically said that "any potential recruit with a medical history of asthma after the age of 4, is ineligibile to join as aircrew".

I spoke to the RN about it and they said the 4 year rule, I asked the Secretary of State for Defence about it also and he had no clue so passed it over to the RAF.

RAF AFCO said no one has any chance if you ever suffered from Asthma.

Bit confusing! :ugh:

[OneFifty]

AEROUK

Stated earlier was the "official" guidence we use at AFCO for RAF. In reality, a history of asthma probably will prevent you from becoming aircrew. The four year rule tells the AFCO if we can process you to OASC or not. OASC will have the final say-so. There are so many applicants and so few places, we can afford to be so 'picky'. From 2 equal candidates, if one has never had asthma and one has... you know who is getting selected.

[ElSupremo]

OneFifty, would the fact that I have recently (last Friday) been re-tested and removed from the asthma register be enough to realistically get in or would I need to prove that I've never had asthma via a note from my GP (which is what the RAF recommended at my AFCO)?

I hate blowing my own trumpet but would the fact that I'm a graduate (in law) and a post-graduate help my chances with OASC accepting me? Would the degree etc mean anything to them with regards to the asthma issue?

Thanks.

[hootandroar]

El,
Will depend on which branch, If your going into legal services then great if you are intending to fly then it's just another degree and asthma will cause you all the issues you can see in this thread,

[Pontius Navigator]

ELS, a fair number of Admin Sec (or whatever they are today) are LLB. As aircrew I would keep very quiet about an LLB.:}

[Mr C Hinecap]

Let us look at this together children.

OneFifty, would the fact that I have recently (last Friday) been re-tested and removed from the asthma register be enough to realistically get in ?


or would I need to prove that I've never had asthma via a note from my GP (which is what the RAF recommended at my AFCO)?


I guess it would depend upon whether OneFifty was going to interview you and recommend you, or not, to OASC. If the AFCO were going to do the interview, the DO WHAT THEY TELL YOU! :ugh:

[airborne_artist]

The Royal Navy has recently published online the personnel management handbook (BR3) (http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/upload/package/68/br3home.pdf)and the handbook of medical standards (BR1750A) (http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/upload/package/68/br3home.pdf)

Between the two you will find authoritative answers to all your recruitment questions.

For example, this is the para on respiratory matters:

"0503. Breathing Problems

a. Asthma. Candidates who currently suffer from asthma, or have required
treatment for asthma during the last four years, should not be accepted into the
service. Individuals who have suffered from asthma as a child may be considered but
only if they have been treatment and symptom free for at least four years.

b. Hay Fever. Mild attacks which would not affect the efficient performance of duty
may be ignored. Severe hay fever is likely to be a bar to entry, the severity being
judged by the need for prolonged medication. Hay fever in Aircrew has the potential
to cause incapacitation in flight. Aircrew candidates with a declared history of hay
fever may be considered for selection if they have had no treatment and no symptoms in the 4 years preceding their appearance at the selection Medical Board.

c. In cases where there is doubt as to the individual's fitness, they must be referred
by the AFCO ME to CAAMB with the RN Respiratory Questionnaire completed by the candidate’s general practitioner."

Edit:

Search terms: FAA, Fleet Air Arm, pilot, observer, aircrew, don't join the Crabs, AIB, BRNC, Admiralty Interview Board, Dartmouth.

[remember1996]

Bad news, but Good news aswell- My son has just come back from RAF Cranwell OASC. He applied for Pilot, unfortunately he didn't score high enough in the Aptitudes. He did however pass for WSO. He has sat the full board of OASC and now waiting final results. I'm writing on behalf of him to try and give him some encouragment to have a career as a WSO, but he wants to try for Pilot again. Is this possible?

Regards,

Rem1996

[EuRoFiGhTeR]

Hi guys and gals,

I'm basically just looking for some advice. I'm currently in my first year of uni, studying aeronautical engineering and I want to apply to the UAS and eventually RAF for Pilot. However, I've only really been interested in joining the RAF for a short period of time, so haven't been involved with ATC or CCF, base visits, airshows or anything like this. And at the moment I don't think I would have enough knowledge of the RAF and general Armed Forces to pass an OASC interview. Basically after filling out my application I realised that there was nothing immpressive on there except perhaps my A level grades and academic stuff. The deadline for me to apply this year for UAS sponsorship is the 21/11 (I think!), but I was just wondering whether you'd think it would be worth me not applying this year or just getting my act together for next year?
How harmful to my chances of getting in would it be for me to fail this year, and would I be able to apply next year?

Sorry about the hideously long post, thanks for reading and for any advice! :ok:

[OneFifty]

Before you even get to OASC, you'll have to pass a filter interview. With no knowledge of the RAF, you will not pass. Do your research to give yourself even half a chance.

Commitment, determination, leadership capabilities/potential... all need to be demonstrated.

[EuRoFiGhTeR]

'Before you even get to OASC, you'll have to pass a filter interview. With no knowledge of the RAF, you will not pass. Do your research to give yourself even half a chance.

Commitment, determination, leadership capabilities/potential... all need to be demonstrated.'


Yeah, I mean it's not like I don't know anything about the RAF, but stuff like length of training, where different sqns are and what flys from where etc I would struggle to learn in time for my filter interview. Personally I feel applying next year, after researching alot and doing base visits and getting as much flying experience as possible, I would stand a much better chance of being successful first time around.
As per my first post, would failing this year have an effect on me applying next year?

Thanks

[airborne_artist]

Don't confuse the knowledge level required for the filter interview with that required for OASC. Get on Studentroom.co.uk or similar and read up/ask around.

[muppetofthenorth]

An OASC 'failure' could prevent you from applying again in the shortterm. Why 'waste' an attempt if you already know you won't pass/do as well as you could?

Go away for a year, do as much research as possible, read up, go on visits, join the UAS if you haven't already then apply.

If you went to OASC now and they gave you a 2 year deferral [a 'don't come back for at least 2 years' notice] due to being so inexperienced you wouldn't be happy.

[EuRoFiGhTeR]

Yeah I think you're right. It's not worth the risk me applying this year if I can do alot better next year. Unfortunately I was away for the UAS recruitment at my uni so I missed the deadline. The only way to get into the UAS now is to obtain sponsorship which requires the full OASC interviews etc, so I think I'll leave it til next year. I've got myself booked onto a base visit at RAF Wittering early next year so that should be good. I do gliding at Wittering so I arranged that one whilst I was there, but what's the best way of arranging these types of visits as I'd like to do a few, and do they have any aircrew specific visits.

[newbie20]

I recently took (and failed) AAC pilot aptitude tests. I have OASC for wsop coming up soonish, and am wondering if it is worth going. Am I wasting everyones time, or if I buy a nintendo DS and do lots of speed dist time would I stand a chance of passing the tests for wsop?
Also, how different are the tests for wsop? I foolishly didnt do much prep for my AAC aptitude tests, and maybe took too long over some of the sections.
Is there any point in me going to OASC for wsop, or am I best cashing in my AOSB pass to go to RMAS and becoming a royal engineer/royal artillery officer. Honest advice (even if it is harsh) is much appreciated!

[airborne_artist]

How did you get over this hurdle?:

I'm a civilian flight instructor with 700 hours experience and I'm really keen to join the RAF as flight crew. Problem is though I only have 2 AS levels and my local AFCO has already turned me down for an interview on these grounds. I'm 25 and so there is no time for me to take more academic qualifications.

[Aerouk]

Cheers for the information AA :ok:

[guitarwillie]

Hi

I am currently in Year 13 at school looking to join the RAF as pilot or Weapon Systems Officer following 6th form. I was informed by people on this forum that I would be able to apply during my Year 13 at school, so I wouldn't be hanging around after 6th form not doing anything during the application process. So I went down to my AFCO and applied, filled the application form in, completed my Ophthalmic form which I have had back from Cranwell and been deemed fit, completed my AFCO station visit and my P2 presentation. I then recieved a letter telling me I had my filter interview today (19th Nov 2009). So I went down after about a month of intense preparation to find that I couldn't do the interview. They said I could only do it when it is 6 months or less to my results day (A level), so I had a 5 minute chat and then that was it. So I can't do my filter before the 19th Feb. So my question is, is it likley I will be able to attend OASC before 6th form ends. I have applied to university and have all my offers now as a back up, but I'd rather attend OASC before 6th form ends so I know where Im going in Setember 2010.

Thanks in advance

Will

[dave_perry]

I had a similar predicament last year. I had all of my offers from Uni and was told by the RN that I definately would not be going to selection until the end of the year. As it happens, I am going to Portsmouth beginning of next year.

Therefore I had to think to myself what to do. I knew straight without really thinking too hard, that I wanted to go Military Aircrew before Uni. So phoned the Universities and asked to defer me a year. They were fine, and I now have a gauranteed place next september in Uni.

My point is - there is no point in going to Uni if you will have to leave after 3 - 6 months. Personally I'd have a gap year (if it comes to that), finish selection in that year, and go on from there.

[guitarwillie]

Thanks for you advice. That has certainly crossed my mind and I will definantly look into it. I feel the same as you, would much rather go military aircrew than university, but I have it there in case it all goes wrong!

Thanks again

Will

[ZD714ONLINE]

All,

What are the Top Tips for the RAF Pilot Aptitude Tests??

Thanks,

[airborne_artist]

Get sh!t hot on mental speed/time/distance calcs and bone up your hand/eye/brain on the Xbox.

[dave_perry]

You can practice on the XBOX and get better on SDT, but aptitude measures your natural ability - so you either have it or you don't. OASC gave the analogy of someone learns to play a musical instrument quicker than others. This is because all brains are 'wired differently'.

But by all means do little niggly sums wherever possible and get on the computer games.

Good luck! :ok:

[Aerouk]

Dave,

You can practice on the XBOX and get better on SDT, but aptitude measures your natural ability - so you either have it or you don't.

I don't agree personally, but no one really knows the answer to that, a couple of people have looked at these brain trainers and many have given back good results.

[ryanp1992]

You have to be able to run 1.5 miles in, or under 12 minutes.

[ryanp1992]

Does anybody know why most jobs in the RAF are oversubscribed, but not one of the aircrew jobs are. I find this strange and just wondered weather there was a reason for this or if it was that not as many people apply for aircrew jobs.

I imagined aircrew being one of the most competitive careers within the RAF.

[muppetofthenorth]

ryan, don't aim for 'under 12 minutes'. Aim for under 10, otherwise you're going to hassled from day one. The fitter you are, the better.

Aircrew, being one of the biggest branches, has more vacancies in the training pipeline and a higher throughput of personnel.
And besides, just because they're inviting applications, it doesn't mean they'll all get through. Aircrew branches, particularly pilot, are still the most competitive branches going. For every pilot who makes it operational, many thousands apply.

[ryanp1992]

Thanks for your reply. Perhaps i'l step up the running and biking to knock my time down. The branch i am hoping to join as is WSOp which i know is very competitive and i will have to be successful at the OASC first and foremost. I was also wondering, if selected and passed out, does the flying training have a high success rate or do more fail than pass. I imagine if you do fail flying training you would have the opportunity to put down another branch. Correct me if im wrong.

Thanks in advance.:)

[Braddersb]

Just a quick question,
I've heard from a sergeant in the army who applied to be an AAC pilot that he was turned down because he had 3 points on his driving license. This was some time ago. Do these rules still apply, and are they the same for pilot applicants for all three services?

[ZD714ONLINE]

Anyone on here in the URNU or an expert in the Navy Selection process, If so could you could you PM me.

Thanks,

ZD714

[Herc-u-lease]

Just a quick question,
I've heard from a sergeant in the army who applied to be an AAC pilot that he was turned down because he had 3 points on his driving license. This was some time ago. Do these rules still apply, and are they the same for pilot applicants for all three services?

Bradders, personally I wouldn't worry about 3 points on your licence. It has much more to do with your attitude about the points. Should you be asked about the points, a humble approach of: "yes, I received 3 points for speeding (or whatever). It has tarnished my previously good driving record and has certainly been a warning to drive more carefully" would probably be satisfactory. We've all made mistakes or bad choices, it's how we learn from them that represents who you are. Be your best in every other respect:ok:

[airborne_artist]

I've heard from a sergeant in the army who applied to be an AAC pilot that he was turned down because he had 3 points on his driving license.

Worth bearing in mind that there's no way of checking his story and his assertion, though the fact that he made Sergeant suggests he's not a truly bad boy.

[Wander00]

However, might get turned down for using the wrong word - in that context "licence", not "license".

[Flame Out]

When I went through OASC Biggin Hill in '78, I had three points for speeding, 48mph in a 40. Signed the 'Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974' at the recruitment centre and told not to it again, I haven't, well you know undiscovered crime...

[NDW]

Good Afternoon everyone,

I'm in a difficult situation at the moment so I'm on here to see what advice you guys could give me.

Basically I'm currently studying two AS Level Subjects ; History and Geography. But they at the start of the year, they messed me around with my subjects meaning I could only to do A levels :mad:
I am enjoying them both, however I had a desire to study A level Mathematics, but the college I am studying with did not allow it due to the fact that I achieved a Grade C ( they wanted a Grade B or higher)

I Achieved in my Main 5 GCSE's

Mathematics - C - (9 Marks of a Grade B)
English Language - B
Science - Double Award - C x 2
Geography - C

I appreciate that for someone who is aiming for Aircrew, that they are not tip top.

So I was in touch with a school friend who goes to a sixth form near my college, and he said that I can do 4 AS subjects including Mathematics with Mechanics with a Grade C. This was confirmed by the sixth form centre staff, but my main problem is would the RAF Interviewers at both AFCO and OASC look down upon me for taking ages to do my A levels.

I have been talking to my parents today, and they both have different opinions...

My dad says that I should ask whether me grades are suitable for Non- commisioned Aircrew e.g. Crewman, and start my application ; where-as my Mum is saying that I should stay on and do my A levels and go for Navigator / WSO ( which is what I want )

Im nearly 18, and by the time that I have finalised my A levels I will be pushing 20 neary 21 years of age.

I want to go for Navigator / WSO, but another side of me wants to go for WSOp.

That is my concerned situation, so thank you very much for taking the time to read this 'essay', but I would appreciate to see what you guys think.

Yours faithfully

Nathan Wilson

[Pontius Navigator]

Nathan, see PMs.

[OneFifty]

The interviewer won't care how long you took to gain the qualification, only interested if you actually have it or not.

[BigEddie]

Hi Guys,

I've got a few wannabe questions that hopefully someone can help me with:

I am 27 years old and have decided to apply to the RAF; I've thought about it on and off since finishing Uni in 2005 but due to one thing or another I have put it off. I am now in a position to go for it but due to my age I can not apply for WSO but this doesn't bother me as I am very keen on WSOp (Crewman). However I always thought if I applied to the RAF it would be for a commissioned role.

My first question is this: As WSOp is a non-commissioned role what are the advantages and disadvantages of commissioned against non-commissioned roles? What am I missing out on and should the role take proirty over the fact it not a commissioned role? Am I correct in thinking that without doing a different role I couldn't get promoted to an officer

Secondly is the selection process as rigerous for WSOp as it is for Pilot or WSO and does anyone have any stats on pass rates for OASC?

Thirdly what is the best source of information (apart from the usual sources) for the role of WSOp and are there any recommended books to read in prep for the selection process?

Thanks in advance for the replies,

Ed

[Pontius Navigator]

I am 27 years old and have decided to apply to the RAF; I've thought about it on and off since finishing Uni in 2005 but due to one thing or another I have put it off.

That hardly demonstrates burning ambition and a single minded application.

As WSOp is a non-commissioned role what are the advantages and disadvantages of commissioned against non-commissioned roles? What am I missing out on and should the role take proirty over the fact it not a commissioned role?

More people can b*gg*r you around otoh you have less responsibility - less, but not none!

Am I correct in thinking that without doing a different role I couldn't get promoted to an officer

There will be opportunities especially for people with suitable aptitude and skills. Usually however a serving airman will serve for a few years before being considered suitable for a commission.

Secondly is the selection process as rigerous for WSOp as it is for Pilot or WSO and does anyone have any stats on pass rates for OASC?

Arguably the process is more rigorous than the commissioned route.

[camelspyyder]

some of the stats you are asking for are in a thread called ""oasc pass percentage" from about 6 months back

CS:)

[muppetofthenorth]

Stats are useless. You can make them say whatever you want and back up any argument.


The only stat worth knowing is: If you're good enough, you'll get in.

[airborne_artist]

Secondly is the selection process as rigerous for WSOp as it is for Pilot or WSO and does anyone have any stats on pass rates for OASC?

Stats are irrelevant to a single candidate; they only mean anything at the end of the quarter/year etc.

Many on here will have got through an application/selection/training process that has an almost (but not quite) impossible pass rate, but some have to pass to produce the output required. Assuming you are medically fit and have the minimum academic reqs. then no-one knows if you will pass/fail until you step up and try your best, and no stats will help forecast the outcome for you as an individual.

[Pontius Navigator]

Once in training there are 'standard' pass rates and 'standard' recourse figures etc finely honed to ensure that a larger intake matches a smaller 'in to productive service' requirement.

At the door however it would be extremely unlikely that every candidate at OASC passed. We lost people through medical right at the outset. We lost others who bottled out during the process.

At OASC an applicant will be in a mixed group, male, female, mixed ages, different branch aspirations etc. It is not unknown for 100% rejection of a group.

27 years old and have decided to apply to the RAF; I've thought about it on and off since finishing Uni in 2005

Please answer the following question:

What have you done to further your interest in a career in the Royal Air Force?

[Pontius Navigator]

I guess BigEddie is thinking of something else now.

[onrey_oleuk]

HI,

You have to run 1.5 mile's in less than 12 minutes but you want to aim to run it in under 10 minutes. When you get to OASC/IOT you get put groups based on your level of fitness so the better you do on the run, the higher the group you will be put in.

[Braddersb]

Hi guys,

I'm, looking for some info on the air cadet pilot navigation scheme. Hopefully someone on here has done this at some point?

My situation is that I applied for a pilot scholarship, but was instead have just been awarded a navigation scholarship, which has even less places...

I'm a bit disappointed, so hopefully somebody can cheer me up and tell me that its just as good! ;) I'm guessing you won't be able to solo on it? :S

[onrey_oleuk]

Hi, :)

I was just looking for a bit of advice on whether i should enter the RAF straight after i finish my A-Levels, or would it be more benficial to me and to the RAF if i was to gain a bit of life experience and take a year/half a year out??

cheers :ok:

[Mr C Hinecap]

It would be much better for you if you went to university and got yourself a degree. Really.

[Pontius Navigator]

I would not disagree with Mr Hinecap except to say that it is your life and your career. Only you know your circumstances.

I won't go into the pros and cons except tp say two things: there is no right or wrong answer and this has been discussed at length in this thread and not too far back either.

Do read the thread, consider your personal circumstances and then make up your own mind.

[fullafterburner]

I took a year out between A Levels and Uni- best thing I done, personally! great experience, not sure if Uni can offer the experience I had during my gap year!

PM, if you would like any more advice.

Regards,

FAB

[Aerouk]

I hated University but this wasn't due to the University, lectures or course. I just had no interested in it at all. I don't regret doing it in any way shape or form, I did get the chance to travel the world and meet a lot of great people.

[onrey_oleuk]

Cheers for all the advice, in my personal opinion, i would prefer not to go to university because of the costs/limited places. As well as this, it doesnt really interest me and neither do any of the courses.

I have most/if not all of the credentials required for the position i would like, but have you got any advice for me about what the AFCO will be looking for in a candidate?


cheers :ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

ole, that is half your problem sorted. Now read the sticky again to find out what advice has already been given.

[Aerouk]

My first visit to the AFCO (both RAF and the RN) was a really nervous occasion, they were really nice to me but I had to ask for the officer to come and speak to me because the recruitment ratings weren't able to give me a huge amount of information on the whole officer recruitment process.

I would just say make sure you write down some questions and look smart(ish). For example I wasn't 100% sure what the Observer role in the RN involved so he clarified it for me and gave me some extra details.

Try and get your hands on as many information brochures and leaflets as possible and have a good read at them all. Now is the time to start reading the RAF News and getting up to date with world affairs.

[seafuryfan]

And have an OPINION on issues, one you think you can argue with some degree of persuasiveness if questioned. They're not looking for a memory retention drone.

[Aerouk]

Does anyone have any information on what the shifts/deployments are like for aircrew in the Navy?

Are they based on land more than sea? If they are away at sea how long are they usually away for? How does leave work during training and while on an operational squadron?

I'm just trying to gain a better understanding of how the RN aircrew live while serving.

[airborne_artist]

Very hard to generalise on time ashore/afloat, as it will vary by aircraft type, for a start.

Leave during training will normally follow the station's block leave programme, which will be two weeks three times a year. On a squadron it'll be in part driven by the tasking, but if the squadron/you are ashore then you'll probably take leave during the station's block leave.

[Pontius Navigator]

Aero, to put A_A's point another way; you will have no control over what you do for the first years. Your private life will fall a distant second to the Service but you will soon get used to that.

Actually it could be likened to a busy job in civvie street - you would be limited to only 2 days a week off and no choice. The hours would be long. You would spend lots of time travelling in combined spaces with people you don't know and who stink.

At least afloat you will know who they are and they won't stink (much :})

[PPRuNe Pop]

Everyone will be interested to know that a new thread for OASC 'Candidates' and Wannabes is about to open to replace this one, which will remain in view for two or three months but closed to new posts.

The reason for this is that we responded to an approach from OASC with a view to participating in, and offering to prospective candidates, a guiding hand from the inside as it were. We think that this will put those who seek help and advice in a very advantageous position and we at PPRuNe are delighted that we can help. The new thread should start next week.

'OASC' will therefore become a username for one of the senior officers at RAF Cranwell who will monitor the posts from would be candidates. How he/they decide(s) to approach any subject in any post will be entirely in his hands, and we feel sure that the benefits OASC bring to our wannabes is the VERY best you could hope for and it is up to you to take the opportunity in both hands.

Notwithstanding the above we will not countenance idiot posts or those wasting OASC's time, or indeed that of the moderators and PPRuNe.

Best wishes.

[airborne_artist]

What about people with taste who want to join the Senior Service? Will the light-blue be advising them too, or could you persuade someone from DNR to take part as well?

[risk is adventure]

Hey all, I am new to this forum and would like some advise on RAF WSOp and SAR.

Basically I have been interested in joining the RAF since age 17. The RAF careers centre advised me to go to university, get a degree and gain some volunteer experience.

After university I went on to volunteer in an adventure sports teaching program for 6 months.

I enjoyed the course so much I decided to continue and gain many qualifications in leadership training, adventure sports instruction and managament.

Cut a long story short I specialised in avalanche safety, search and rescue and emergency first aid in the wilderness, mainly in mountain environments.

I have applied to the RAF as WSOp crewman and would like to eventually be considered for SAR operations, but realise this is a highly competitive branch.

I have researched a great deal into the recruitment/selection process and initial training.

I am 26 now and realise its probably older than most candidates heading to the OASC but hope my experience in leadership and management may be an advantage.

So here are a few questions:

* What abilities are WSOp assessed on to determine their specialised branch? eg, acoustic, crewman etc.

*How exactly can a crewman eventually apply for SAR? Is it based on length of service, merit, suitability to role etc?

*Do you think my experience in SAR and advanced first aid protocols will help in the selection process for WSOp crewman and SAR?

If anybody can help with these questions or give me contact details for people in these roles that would be great

Thanks a million

[Aerouk]

I thought SAR operations were going to be passed over to civi street within the next couple of years?

[camelspyyder]

It is true that SAR is going to change hands, however the RAF element will be last to go. Friends in the know at Valley think that new arrivals on SAR now could plan on getting 2 full tours in that role, before having to move on.

As far as WSOp recruiting goes, it may be that there are not many vacancies coming up. With the nimrod MR2 gone, and VC10 and Tri* nearing the end of the line, it seems that we have lots of NCA in service now looking for jobs, and therefore less need to recruit new people.

However, at 26 you're definitely not too old, we've had students through 55 Sqn aged up to 38 lately. And though it has not been the norm before, senior mates on SAR are looking to get hold of first tourists straight out of training as well as experienced guys.

good luck with your application

CS

[risk is adventure]

Hey thanks camelspyder and aerouk for your replies. Thats sort of a mixture of good and bad news. Shame the SAR operations will eventually be handed over but good to hear they are looking to snap up new tourists straight from training!!

Ah well ill just give it 120% at OASC and see what happens from there.

Thanks again

[Aerouk]

From what I've heard there are two companies trying to get the contracts, Soteria and AirKnight and that they will be using both military and civvie crews for the role.

[OllieB88]

Hey all,

Reading above about grades above prompted me to ask a question on this thread.
I have never claimed to be a natural born genius when it comes to the academic side of my life. For GCSE's i have English C,D Science C,C Maths D, D&T D, History D.

I never went on in school to do A-Levels, as i thought i would most bypass them and go straight to college.

But in 2007 i decided, if i really wanted to be a pilot in the RAF, which i had from a rather young age, i should prove to myself i can be a pilot! Instead of college i did a full time JAA-PPL(A), and have since gone on to do a Degree in Aviation in New Zealand, recieving my NZCAA-CPL(a) Multi Engined Instrument Rating in 2009.
To complete my Degree i had to also do the instructor course; Unfortunately, shortly after finishing Theory modules the company went Bankrupt.

Enable to fund anymore training, and having finanical problems due to money not being released from the company, i returned home to the UK in September 09 with out a Degree.

I have now began my Application, and i will most probably send it on its way tomorrow.

What i would like to ask is:

- Just because i don't have As and Bs in GCSE's will i just be completely over looked?

I heard from some pilots in the RAF and friends who i know personally in the RAF, Grades aren't always important, A good character can be the most important thing to bring with you to an Interview! ??


And,

- What "things" do the Interviewing officers like to see from the ideal candidate?


To prepare myself for selection im revising like a mad man subjects like, Maths, Principles of Flight, Navigation, Current Affairs. Even self teaching Spanish, to prove i have the ability to better myself, more than what the grades on a few peices of paper say.


Thanks all,
Any information from you would be excellent,

Ollie

[muppetofthenorth]

The grades themselves aren't the most crucial things, someone with the minimum requirements has the requirements and can go on from there.

However, and this will be blunt, you don't.

You need to have C or above at GCSE and you have to have at least 2 A Levels.


Seeing as you don't have a degree either, you don't really have a leg to stand on to ask for a review at an AFCO.

If you want in, your only route is to correct those D grades at GCSE in English (unless your C was in English Language) and Maths and make sure you've got 3 other GCSEs at C or above, AND then get yourself 2 A Levels.


After all that's happened, I would be wary of the age limits too, as you'd be getting very close to them already, despite all the extra work you will need to do.

Frankly, if you wanted to be a pilot in the RAF, why didn't you find out what was required for such a position, rather than go off on your own steam down a route that was basically useless?


Anyway, to answer your question:
"Just because i don't have As and Bs in GCSE's will i just be completely over looked?"

Basically, yes. Not because of the lack of As and Bs, but the lack of enough of anything.

Because of that, the other questions are largely irrelevant.

[Aerouk]

OllieB88,

When I visited the AFCO officers a couple of months ago, the first thing they asked was what grades I had. The RAF were looking for the grades mentioned above and the RN were looking for a UCAS score of 180 and above.

[risk is adventure]

hey Aerouk

Yes it looks like Soteria won the contract. It will come into place from 2012 and looks like a 25 year contract. The following is a cut from their website:

Today the Ministry of Defence (MOD) and the Department for Transport (DfT) selected Soteria as the preferred bidder for the Search and Rescue - Helicopter (SAR-H) programme.
SAR-H is a single harmonised Search and Rescue (SAR) helicopter service in the UK which will replace the current SAR helicopter service with a bespoke capability. It will ensure that military aircrew will develop their SAR skills and experience that will be transferred back to the expeditionary forces.
The Contract is a 25-year Private Finance Initiative (PFI) and Soteria will work in partnership with the MOD and DfT to replace the current service with initial service provision in 2012.

Do you think the RAF will still be looking to recruit new SAR crew members with this new contract in place?

Any views from any people would be great........

[neildo]

I visited and got trough OASC last week, would be happy to post up an account/rough run of events etc in the new thread if anyone would be interested. A lot of the info in this thread is obviously severely outdated now.

Neil

[Aerouk]

Neil,

Would you be willing to PM me with the details?

[WILSON231]

Afternoon all,

I'm currently thinking about joining the Royal Air Force as a WSOp, but heres my drawback.
I'm currently studying for my A Levels, which I enjoy, but the College I am with is :mad:.
So, I'm thinking about finishing my A levels at AS level in June this year.

What would the interviewing officer at the AFCO think about my abrupt end to doing my A Levels, would it look as if I had no motivation, or could I still join up as a WSOp with respect from the AFCO.

I achieved in my GCSE's :

Maths : B
English Language : B
Science Double Award : CC
Geography : C

and the rest are mostly D's which I am embarrassed about :\

So would and could I still join up as a WSOp or in your personal opinion would you change college/ school, complete your full A levels and then join the RAF?

Thats my problem in deciding?

Thanks

[Melchett01]

Wilson,

If you want to go WSOp, you don't actually need A levels but you do need at least 5 Cs at GCSE, including English and Maths. Whilst I'm not a recruiter, I would suggest that you might want to get one of your Ds up a grade to a C.

That said, having a few A-levels under your belt wouldn't hurt matters. It would be another year's life experience, but more importantly in a shrinking RAF it might just make you a bit more competitive than others in a similar boat to yourself. Also, you need to think what if you did get your GCSEs sorted, got in as a WSOp but failed the training. If you went back to civilian life, a lack of A-levels would be a significant impediment in today's economic climate when you have degree holders serving burgers in McDonalds.

Even if you did stay on to finish your A-levels, I think you will need to get that final C at GCSE nailed as that is the minimum requirement.

Have a look here for the official line: http://http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers/jobs/aircrew.cfm

[risk is adventure]

wilson,

you may want to ask around but ive read on other forums that RAF has stopped recruiting for WSOp this year. im in the proocess at the moment but not sure whats happening, maybe its just a rumour?

If anyone is out there who knows if RAF is still recruiting for WSOp please let us know.

And yes definately go for your A levels !!!

[Aerouk]

risk is adventure,

It seems most of the branches have stopped recruiting for the time being, a couple of friends have been told not to bother for the time being. I've got a mate that's been on the waiting lists for about 6-8months now, just waiting for the engineering slot to open up (he's already passed selection).

[OneFifty]

I can confirm that WSOp is not currently available. Current forecast is that it may open up again in Jan 11.

[OneFifty]

The application process has recently changed slightly.

Once people are at the stage where they are ready to submit an application, regardless of the trade or branch being available yet, they should call the number below and register their details. Once the trade or branch does become available, they will be sent an E-mail with application forms. These forms are then sent back by return of E-mail for eligibility checking. Once all has been checked, the candidate is sent a letter informing them to contact their nearest AFCO. The Candidate then has 2 weeks to get in touch to arrange testing or interviews. If nothing is heard within that 2 week period, the case is closed by the AFCO and the application is withdrawn. So, keep an eye on the E-mails and once advised to, make haste to the AFCO!

RAF Careers Line – 0845 8508050

[mike172]

Hi everyone,

I've posted here in the past and have always been given great advice. I've always wanted to join as a pilot and applied just over a year ago. I was told I had potential but needed to gain some more leadership experience. Problem is I'm currently doing a job where I work varied shifts that I can't pick and choose as I like. I work whatever shifts they give me and I only find out sometimes a day or two before the week commences what I'll be working. Therefore, I find it very difficult to plan anything outside of work.

Has anyone got any advise on what I should do? I've been looking for something a little more flexible/part time so that I can concentrate more on building on my weaknesses.

Any ideas? Cheers

[Melchett01]

Twice on here in 24 hrs, must be feeling benevolent! However, I understand your predicament, had a similar one when I applied as I was in the final stages of my MSc, so passing the course was a higher priority than jumping through various OASC hoops.

However, if you genuinely can't do much outside of work owing to random shift patterns, then you need to work out how you can develop in your work environment and put it over in that context.

If it helps any, we have just been told they have changed how our leadership should be assessed when it comes to annual report time, and now CAS wants reporting officers to focus on the following leadership attributes:

Effective leadership at all levels and across all ranks will be key to the Service’s success in meeting the challenges of new technology, expeditionary warfare, structural changes to the defence organisation, an increasingly diverse workforce and changes in wider society that affect our people and those we seek to recruit.

The view of the RAF Leadership Centre aligns with that of the Defence Leadership and Management Centre (DLMC), in that the possession of any particular set of attributes or characteristics does not guarantee success in leadership and no list is exhaustive. However, any organisation seeks a particular contribution from its leaders and the following list of attributes outlines those required by the RAF. This list does not contradict those attributes identified by the DLMC but rather complements them.

Warfighter, Courageous All our personnel, commissioned or non-commissioned must be, first and foremost, warfighters and second specialists, though they may be second to none in their specialisation. The distinction between the front line and the support area will become increasingly blurred and all of us need to be military minded and of a determined fighting spirit to overcome the adversity of circumstances that any of us may face in operations. Physical courage is expected of all leaders, as far as each is able to give, but we must nurture moral courage to do the right thing.

Emotionally Intelligent Self-awareness is one of the key foundations of effective leadership. Leaders who know themselves will be able to develop self-control and subsequently understand the needs of others. This will enable them to manage relationships at all levels better and remain calm under pressure. Thus individuals will be able to function as part of a wider team, invariably multidisciplinary, increasingly joint and often multinational, in the delivery of military capability.

Flexible and Responsive In a world that is now changing faster than ever, where technology is advancing rapidly, the RAF needs leaders who are flexible in approach and able to consider new ways of doing things. RAF leaders must be open minded, responsive to change, constantly looking for the opportunities that change brings and be able to cope with the discomfort that is associated with change.

Willing to Take Risks The RAF needs leaders who understand the difference between a gamble and a risk and are willing to take measured risks in appropriate areas without abrogating responsibility. This will be achieved if leaders at all levels fulfil 2 roles: they must themselves set the example in this regard and must develop an ethos where a failure to act is considered a more serious fault than making a mistake.

Mentally Agile – Physically Robust Our leaders need to be able to handle complex and multifarious problems and have the creativity and mental agility to move quickly between various concepts. Their thinking must be innovative and their minds receptive. They must be physically robust and able to withstand the strain of operations, so that their mental capacity does not fail them under stress.

Able to Handle Ambiguity Ambiguity pervades our lives and becomes prevalent with the Clauswitzian ‘friction’ that causes the fog of war. At the more junior levels of leadership there may be little ambiguity but at the highest levels it is considerable. Our leaders must be able to handle it and, if possible, turn it to their advantage.

Politically and Globally Astute Leaders will be more effective depending upon their aptitude in two areas. The first is their ability to understand and thus cope with the politics of their immediate environment and, hence, their ability to influence those around them. Similarly, a leader’s awareness of much wider issues at a national and international level, and their ability to put their actions and decisions into the context of air power and air warfare, is crucial.

Technologically Competent The RAF culture has always been to embrace new technology. It behoves all members of the RAF to be competent within their specialisation and many, at various stages of their career, will need to display considerable expertise. Yet, in the age of Network Enabled Capability, this may not be enough. Leaders must strive to keep pace with technological advances on a broad front, through a focus on continual personal development, so as to ensure its most effective application.

Able to Lead tomorrow’s Recruit As society develops, each new generation of recruits to the RAF is different. They have been seen by some as worse – Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannize their teachers. (Socrates - 469 BC - 399 BC) – t'was always thus. Leaders must recognise the qualities the new generation brings and must learn the leadership skills that will allow them to maximise their potential. Everyone in the chain of command needs to understand the new generation, be able to lead and inspire them so that in their turn they will lead the RAF to new heights of excellence


Like it or not, that is how I as a serving officer am now assessed on my leadership by my bosses. It is probably slightly different to that expected of an Army officer and is no doubt a lot less shouty and more dare I say it, thoughtful - as rightly befits a high tech fighting organisation in the 21st Century.

Put yourself forward for positions of responsibility at work and work on the attributes highlighted above in the context of those positions of responsibility. If they ask about it at the AFCO and OASC, tell them those are the current doctinal thoughts on RAF leadership from their very own Leadership Centre!

http://http://www.raf.mod.uk/RAFLeadershipcentre/theleader/attributes.cfm

[NDW]

Evening all,Ok, I'm in quite a prediciment at the moment.Basically I'm currently studying for my AS levels at college (which I have to say is s**t)So I've been looking at the RAF webby and looking at a possible career as a WSOp.I have the minimum required grades 5 A*-C, but if I decided to quit my AS levels now, would the RAF look down upon me as unmotivated to achieve, or could I simply explain that I wanted a career in the Air Force ASAP (obviously extending on the answer)orShould I look around for another studying centre and re-do my A levels somewhere else, but I'm 18 now and that would mean finishing around age 20-21 meaning I would be having to pay for education also.I have a part time job, hoping to work my way up the management system for more money and experience, but the pay is poor.So this is my situation, has anyone been is the same situation before, I could really do with your advice.ThanksNathan

[OneFifty]

As posted 4 posts ago...

I can confirm that WSOp is not currently available. Current forecast is that it may open up again in Jan 11.

[Pontius Navigator]

studying for my AS levels at college (which I have to say is s**t) . . . if I decided to quit my AS levels now, would the RAF look down upon me as unmotivated to achieve, It might send the messages that you are motivationally limited and academically challenged.

Should I look around for another studying centre and re-do my A levels somewhere else, but I'm 18 now and that would mean finishing around age 20-21 meaning I would be having to pay for education also

This would support your contention that your present college is poor, but unless you then produce the required A-levels, the first assumption would remain valid.

Now if you do switch and you do press on to 21 and you do pass that would indicate good motivation and go somewhere to showing you were not academically challenged./ At interview you would need to explain why you were 21 and not 18 when you got your A-levels. A well argued case could be a bonus.

[Aerouk]

I'm in quite a prediciment at the moment.Basically I'm currently studying for my AS levels at college (which I have to say is s**t)So I've been looking at the RAF webby and looking at a possible career as a WSOp.

So what are you going to do if you come across a hard or difficult part of RAF life? Are you just going to abandon ship as well?

I went to High School, it was sh*t. I went to University, it was sh*t. I worked in a supermarket, it was sh*t. I worked in a huge firm being abused every week by moron customers while trying to afford my PPL on student wages, it was sh*t.

Life is sh*t sometimes, but if you have a goal in life sometimes that's just what you have to do. You only live once, try and get everything done rather than starting and stopping all of the time.

You just need to work hard and hope the grass is greener on the other side.

[PPRuNe Pop]

This thread will be closed within the next two days. The new thread with the same name will be opened with a post by a senior officer with his name as 'OASC' - therefore representing it.

When you find this thread closed please move to the new one.

[airborne_artist]

PPrune Pop - have you had a chance to look at my earlier post (http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/395674-oasc-candidates-wannabes-please-read-thread-first-157.html#post5493195) about those interested in Dark Blue/Green aviation?

Will there be official reps able to answer on behalf of the FAA and AAC?

[Aerouk]

I agree with AA, it would be great to have FAA/AAC reps on the forum.