OASC 'CANDIDATES' and WANNABES, PLEASE READ THIS THREAD FIRST!

[BigGrecian]

They may ask why you applied for WSOp as well as the Officer branches. They like to think as it as Officer first then branch second. Be prepared to answer questions on why you considered not being an officer as WSOp.

[MAD Boom]

True, you can only have two pops at the aptitude, but once you have passed, you can keep going back until the cows come home and they'll take your highest score from the first two attempts each and every time.

Have a little inside knowledge as to a good aptitude score, and without trying to dishearten you, 140 is what you need to aim for this year to be competetive.

Like yourself, I went for pilot aged 18 and was offered AEOp (forerunner to WSOp) and took it. I certainly haven't looked back and have had an absolute blast. Time to move on though, and this year sees my 5th attendace of OASC for pilot application (think they're trying to tell me something).

Whatever you are offered, take it. No need to cut your nose off to spite your face as my mother once told me. Sitting in the back of the mighty hunter is not as bad as some people make out.

Always on the end of my PM's if you need any more advice.

Good luck.

[Big Cheese1]

Guys,

I've an OASC report that I'd like a comment/advice on it if possible. I've been trying to deal with the AFCO but they're as helpful as a chav assisting old grannies crossing the road!!!

Any takers who might be able to help??

Cheers all

BC:ok:

[VigilantPilot]

I would worry about your aptitude scores. Aptitude scores count for a lot - they are a very good indication of your ability to earn your wings and progress well hence OASC takes them heavily into account.

118, even though a technical pass is not really that competitive, considering todays climate of fewer slots.

[kippermate]

Big Cheese,

The report should be fairly self explanitary (the important bits that is!)

PM me if you like and I'll give you my twopence.

kipper.

:ok:

[Neeps]

Who knows if I wake up as a blonde with big tits on Monday morning I might stand a chance of pilot!

I have an inkling that ladies such as myself have to work just as hard as you boys at OASC. Just an inkling mind...

due to the decrease in pilot recruitment I have a feeling that if I do well at OASC they might offer me WSOp. So.....if that was to happen, do I accept it...

Well, it depends what appeals to you first about becoming a pilot. Is it the flying or being an Officer? Either as a WSOp or Pilot you\'ll be flying 2 or 3 hours a day. What do you want to be doing for the other 22/21 hours a day?

Personally I wouldn\'t join up as a WSOp for the chance to be a pilot, I would join as a WSOp if that was the job I wanted to do and something I was very interested in.

Perhaps get youself sorted with a base visit where you can look at both of these branches in depth and talk to those who do the job. I found them quite invaluable and hope to go to Leuchars sometime soon to see a working F3 squadron.

[Vim_Fuego]

Anyone who goes for Wsop that is not particuarly interested in doing so and treats it as a 'back door' entry (easy!) for other opportunities may be surprised to spend at least 3 years (payback of training) being fairly miserable, especially if you go down the maritime route... You actually have to do sh*t loads of work to gain and retain your cat at first...lots of, unless it's your thing, quite boring number retention and BSD regurgitation..

Been away from the 'office' for a while but last time I heard (and this is not set in stone but from a source I trust) we were 3 overborne at the cold place with a small to medium queue forming at the door..Can't comment on the other parts of the Wsop world but when has rotary ever been up on numbers?... So chances are they may well offer you that option.

Really think hard on how important it is to you to just get airborne...You have probably researched officer flying positions to the N'th degree...if you are wavering on what to do take a couple of weeks to check out where you could end up as a Wsop...look before you leap

[Neeps]

I do admit then when I first started looking into the RAF a few years ago I heard stories that becoming a WSOp was an easy way to Pilot, and they were tempting. Thankfully with the help of others I have looked in depth at the different branches and the roles within them, and been sufficently re-educated! Flying is immensly important to me, but something I would sacrifice in order to become an Officer.

It is frustrating though, for example, when you chat to other candidates who only want to use the RAF as a platform to commercial flying. You just think 'I'm busting a gut trying to get this as a whole career and you'd rather be at BA?'

Not that I've had that experience recently or anything....

[Lord Flash-Hart]

Hi,

I got back from OASC yesterday. All seemed to go well, I improved my aptitude to 128 (not sure whether that would be competitive enough), I had a great interview, didn't get caught out anywhere and was able to talk in depth about my current affairs as well as the RAF and training etc. Phase 2 went pretty well too, leaderless ex was a bit of a shambles but I managed to get my ideas forward and we made some progress. The individual planning (which I didn't have to do last time) was difficult but I got the correct plan with a few calculation errors that I was able to correct during the questioning. The command task went fine I didn't have much of an idea about how to do it but I briefed the syndicate fully and then gave them 20 secs to have a think before asking them each for their ideas. From that I was able to decide on a plan and we got on with it. Again we didn't finish the ex but I remained in control and used the team well.

Thank you all for your advice and comments in my previous post, I decided to leave WSO and WSOp on the list to keep my options open as I was informed that if I turned them down this year to apply for pilot again it would be no problem. Just awaiting the letter now!!

Rich.

[Talking Radalt]

The command task went fine I didn't have much of an idea about how to do it.....
Again we didn't finish the ex...
You young man, are a future CDS. :ok:

[LuckyBreak]

Quote:

.....that if I turned them down this year to apply for pilot again it would be no problem...


If that's what you've always wanted and have the medical and aptitude to do it then go for it, don't accept anything else!

[teeteringhead]

Again we didn't finish the ex... ... but remember that (allegedly) some of the exercises cannot be completed in the time and are a way of looking at you in a different way .....

[TheBeeKeeper]

Hope your young enough.... I scored 160 for pilot, 145 for Nav when I went through. I was a 26 year old JT at the time! Someone seemed to have tattoed 'ENGINEER' across my forehead.

Ah well, I fly for fun and that does me for now!

TBK

[JEVON]

I used to be connected to OASC and to be honest in todays climate anything below 140 wouldn't usually be considered unless your part two was excellent.

I got in as WSO with 107!!! and the competetive mark was 120 in those days.

My pilot score was 164, it just goes to show that it's what slots they have a need to fill on the day. I think it's all down to luck!

I wish you all the best and hope you get what you want. However if they offer you WSO, I would take it. A few of my course mates on IOT and NAv training transfered from WSO to Pilot on IOt and one on the first week of Nav training. Anything is possible.

[VigilantPilot]

Jevon - how long ago were you on iot?

Just wondering, because I was under the impression that transfers like that no longer happened.

[Unmissable]

I hope it goes well for you. However I have to agree that 128 may not be a good enough score in the current climate. (right time and place means an awful lot). If it isn't then give anything else your best shot.

In Part 2 the individual problem carries an awful lot of weight, so if your self analysis is OK, you should feel pleased with yourself.

This forum is full of all the people who like to moan (and they are entitled to if they want ), but in the end if you treat it as a job and career and accept that it may not be lifelong (except for the very few) then you could be very satisfied.

Good Luck, and well done for sharing your hopes and experiences.

UNM

[Kage83]

I'm one of those people that unfortunately used to be connected to OASC too and to be honest if you're positive when you're there it goes a long way towards the end result. The main people they don't want is people that turn up thinking they already are pilots! As for branch choice, I'm not convinced it's as easy to cross over at iot now, especially with such a shortage of aircrew places but you never know! Good luck and hopefully you'll soon be enjoying the 'delights' of iot!:ok:

[ProfessionalStudent]

In my experience, if you REALLY don't want to be anything other than pilot, don't join up as anything else expecting to get crossed-over. I commissioned as a nav in 2000 and it took me 4 and a half yrs to cross-over (and that was a fluke quite frankly). Having said that, I never regretted a moment...

On the x-over thing, I tried during and after IOT (having had a very good IOTC) and OASC sent me a very snotty reply which said (in precis) that THEY were the selection experts and that their original logic of selection still remained (I scored 165 for pilot). Don't believe anyone who suggests joining as one thing and then branch-changing at IOT - you could and probably will get your finers burnt.

Whatever you do, good luck and stay positive.

PS

[Bob Viking]

I must have missed a stage of my OASC experience.
Nobody ever told me what score I got, and certainly never told me that I was better/worse than anyone else (I've heard several people claim to have the highest ever aptitude scores!).
I must have done alright though.
BV;)

[VigilantPilot]

Yes, I thought that coming out of OASC, you just got a sheet of paper with an 'x' in the box if you were suitable for a branch (i.e. got above the pass mark).

[Bob Viking]

The only thing I remember was my letter a week after OASC telling me I'd made it.
The funny thing is I got the letter from the medics saying 'since you have been succesful you are now required to attend for part 2 medical......etc' about two weeks before the official congratulations letter.
It's not like medics to be so efficient in my experience!
BV:ok: :E

[Husky007]

Dont know how old you are Lord Flash, but dont give up. I agree that 128 in the current climate probs not good enough to get selected. I am very fortunate, I am ex WSOp and at 29 did the cross over to Pilot, witha score of 169 out of 180. I have just finished EFT at Wyton, and awaiting streaming, so basically never give up of getting to where you want to get to.
As for IOT, not a chance of changing branches at or after IOT, the RAF basically has enough people coming through the doors to fill the slots.
I only managed to change from SNCO aircrew to Pilot under a new scheme the RAF intoduced a couple of years ago allowing SNCO aircrew to apply up to age of 31. This is when they needed pilots. but not sure they still aloow it as the climate changed.
Anyway good luck with it all!

[FFP]

I didn't get given my score for Pilot either . . . . . .

Did get asked if I had understood the instructions for the FC / ATC tests as my score would indicate otherwise . . . . :)

Think it was OASC that one of the staff asked someone

"Got you aptitude test results back. Please tell me you haven't driven up here have you Sir !?"?"

Always makes me laugh thinking of that one . . ..

[Talk Reaction]

A very respectable number of rotary crewmen have recently crossed over to pilot and are doing well for themselves BUT with regard to it being a good back door - I would say no way.

First, once you're in you really need there to be no shortage of people to do your job AND do well/be competitive at pilot selection rather than just the latter.

Secondly, they got crossovers because they were high calibre candidates for officer & pilot training and had proved themselves in their previous jobs doing very well cause they enjoyed and WANTED to do it; if you become a WSOp to get in you WILL work very hard, get shafted and overstretched and if its not something you want to do really then you won't 'enjoy' it or do well so you're likely to make yourself into the kind of person who won't pass a commisioning board.

Finally, an overall warning on 'game plans' to get in as pilot. who can win a game which has constantly changing rules?

[UberPilot]

A lot of this is uninformed rubbish (Not that I'm informed any better!)

As regards 128 Pilot aptitude being uncompetitive - well, I just got in with 132, so make of that what you will.

The board presidents narrative carries infinitely more weight.

[Grand Fromage]

OASC now debrief you on your aptitude scores and have done for a year or so.

There's nothing you can do about your score now, and frankly a high score doesn't necessarily mean you'll do well in flying training. OASC are well aware of this so if you impressed them elsewhere you may well be in with a chance.

Don't be too concerned about about people quoting all sorts of figures for their test results (and that is not in any way implicit towards previous posters!). A man I know had 158 described as a "wonderful aptitude package" on his OASC report, "wonderful" not being a word they use to regularly i would imagine. He completed EFT with all sorties except for 3 being high average or above, mostly above average.

In the current climate, either side of OASC, Linton, Valley etc. the rumour mill is rife with horror stories. You can't do more than show up, be yourself and do your best.

Good luck!

GF

[richlear]

I can only agree whole-heartedly with G-F. Be yourself. Nothing more, nothing less. If you are right you will do well.

Enjoy - If you are right - You will!!

Good luck

[Big Cheese1]

Out of curiosity chaos and chapesses - how many times did it take for you to get through OASC?

I undertook a station visit to Leuchars not too long ago and virtually all there took 3 attempts. How does this fare with people here??

Cheers all

BC:ok:

[Bob Viking]

Just the once for me.
I do recall meeting a guy at Grantham who told me that no one makes it through first time and that you need to do it a couple of times to get the hang of it!
It was his fourth trip. And funny thing is, I haven't seen him since!
Maybe it was because he's ginger!
BV:}

[hbellis9383]

Hi everyone

new member - totally scared about OASC in 4 weeks and looking for some useful advice!!I have the current affairs and bleep test under control as i'm a long distance runner.

My pain problems are praticing for apptiutude tests - so if anyone can recommend anything - and anything that can help with problem solving abilities!!!

I';m applying for Provost/ flight operations - so please help a very scared young lady.

Also i am running the bew york marasthon this weekend - so please be nice and help a girl with tired legs!!!

[plans123]

Have you tried WH Smiths / Blackwells?? They actually sell books that will help you improve your aptitude.

As for applying as provost - with spelling like that, everyone will get away scotch free!!!!!!:}

[hbellis9383]

My speeling was appalling, i acutally have good spelling, its all this typing at work

[plans123]

As for Flight Ops Officers, have a look here!!!!!;)

The Great Remote Control Holder (http://www.e-goat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=179)

:}

[g126]

We were told that to improve multi-tasking the best thing to do, is to play a flight simulation game, whilst listening to the radio, trying to sing the lyrics and doing maths sums. More geared at pilot i think but could be relevant. Sounds a bit complicated to me as well. Maybe thats why i'm not a pilot.

G

[joe2812]

Heres general OASC help:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=166273&highlight=OASC

Try the search function and search for aptitude too.

[Ian 1000]

Not wishing to put you off, but if you are after a full RAF career, I advise that you look at an alternate trade as Flt Ops is as good as dead in the water!

[Pontius Navigator]

What an odd pair of bedfellows for choices. The one is supposed to hold all the sercrets and the other investigates all the secrets that the other loses hold of.:E

Thought of Int? Or Supply? Or in extremis Support (Admin :D )

[ProfessionalStudent]

I went 3 times but got something out of it every time...

[ProfessionalStudent]

I joined as NCA and am now a pilot. I've taken a convoluted route but all I can say is that PMA see the time served to amortise training costs as IN SERVICE, not in Branch, and both WSO and Pilot will carry a 6 yr post-OCU tie-in.

[hbellis9383]

I tell a lie - Provost and Fighter controller!!!

I was down for admin and intelligence but they are now closed - so had to change to keep OASC place!!

thanks for help all - im currently making an OASC folder - going to be super organised.

I am also now interest in Weapon systems operator (electronic warfare/ acoustics) sounds very interesting and quite like intellgience. It was so hard to choose branches after intel closed. I would have gone through trades - but they aren't even recruiting!! Many of the branches sound so interesting!!

glad my quotes are good. Fly to NY tomorrow so wish me luck!!

[Pontius Navigator]

As far as WSOp goes you are not wrong on the int aspects and will probably get a far better handle on EW or ASW than a pure Int O.

And your Provost choice is, oddly, very high up on the girlie tick list and often for the wrong reasons. Don't ask me to elaborate, I am quoting.

please see PMs........

[hbellis9383]

I put it down due to similarity to intell

on second thoughts am now more interesed in WSO!!!

I guess provost is more girls - as less machinery involved ha ha!!!

I'm very interested in the intelligence side of the RAF so was so gutted when had to change branches.

Do you think its ok to add WSO before i go to Cranwell. thought it might be as they tend to offer you what your apptitude says you are more suited too anyway!!!

its all very scary!!

[Talking Radalt]

Hmmm, thing is, being honest do you feel you're really......ermmm...."Intel Inside"? If so, maybe CIS Eng beckons! :}

[hbellis9383]

not seeing relation to intel there!!!!
logisitics? not very me!!!

DO you really have to be tall for NCO aircrew??

[passpartout]

No, just chubby;)

[hbellis9383]

any branches people actually approve of? ha ha

[Neeps]

Hi hbellis9383,

I know a few guys going to OASC on that date. Drop me a PM if you like and I'll intoduce you.

[Reverb]

I have just left the RAF as a pilot and now I fly civvy ( Horray !!). You seem very keen to join the RAF and I am sure you are most sincere in this respect. However, your choice of branch must be what you want to do...............want you have spent the last 10 years at school / college for.

Whilst the RAF is full of fun ( and surprises ) you need to know what you are letting yourself in for- all times are not great. I have good knowledge of the WSO and WSOp branches. Do you know the difference? They do contribute to the big intel picture - however, many would not believe that they are " in " intelligence.

At OASC they will assess your conviction as an Officer and for your chosen branches. You need to know what you are talking about and why you want to be INT, WSO, CATERING, Flt Ops etc etc. There is much info about on-line and from careers offices. You need to IMHO do more homework. You would need to convince me to score well.

[hbellis9383]

I am in process of learning as much as i can to make the right choice!

It took me 4 months to decide i wanted to do intelligence so when it closed after I had already got OASC dates it was a nightmare to decide if i still wanted to apply!!

But i decided that Provost/ fighter controller still interested me - and would be a worthwhile and enjoyable career!

Intelligence is still my first choice - but so many other branches are linked and prehaps even more diverse i still want to join the RAF. I need to do a job that makes a difference!

[Rakshasa]

One note on WSOps, HB. The current gen is that WSOps are getting less say in what they sit in the back of these days.

Make sure you're clear on what you want. WSOp can be anything from Trawler watch, through Albert Loadie to doorman on an SH.

[Talking Radalt]

WSOp can be anything from Trawler watch, through Albert Loadie to doorman on an SH.

Start at the bottom and work up you mean? :ok:

[akula]

Hi,
If you are even in the slightest bit interested in any of the Aircrew branches you MUST apply for them. Now this might be a bit controversial but in this Air Force flying is where it is all at. Not to put down the strerling work of the ground branches or in any way reflect badly on their professionalism, they are there to support the Aircrew, so why do the supporting when you can be supported. Oh and good luck:ok: :ok:

[The Proctologist]

Sounds like you are just plucking jobs out of the air!

Pick a job and stick to it and convince them that you know as much as you can about it when you are interviewed.

If you are this indecisive about what you want to be - a commission sounds ideal for you!

As for an aircrew job, just wait a couple of years - at this rate everyone in the RAF will be given a flying suit and aircrew selection will be obsolete!

Good luck!

[The Proctologist]

Three times and passed every time!!!!

[jamesnochain]

Right, 2nd time at OASC coming up very soon. Got a level 3 last time (should have got it!) but slipped up on the leadership tasks.

So, question:
Does anyone remember any of the leadership task layouts / possible solutions?

Swinging rope, diverging rail tracks, cylinders......

Cheers. If you have a good idea on how to solve the probs in advance it'll give you a huge help in actually proving how good a leader you really are! Trust me - they're not all easy for those who haven't been yet........

[tradewind]

3 points:

1 They are supposed to be difficult.

2 Its not what you do, its how you do it.

3 Trying to 'beat' the system will get you no where.

Be yourself - its the only way!

[Pontius Navigator]

No it won't.

From someone who did your diverging tracks a few years back,

Well briefed, looked at the task, formulated a plan, and raring to go.

The DS told him to wait, he still had time in hand, all he did was fretted.

At the off all that he managd to do was fail quicker.

Ultimately he passed. The point is not to solve the problem but to LEAD your team in tackling the problem. The team with the 6 foot 4 rugby player will have different attributed from the 5 foot by 5 foot female player.

[VigilantPilot]

Take in ALL the information you are given at the start of the exercise - don't miss a single word. Missing one crucial fact can completely ruin the lead. This goes for the paper exercises too.

Don't be a shrinking violet. Lead the team. Call on the teams expertese by all means to give you ideas, but the lead is yours so you have to maintain control.

It doesn't matter if you don't even get near completing the task. You can show leadership potential and therefore succeed at OASC even if you barely got half way through a lead.

Leadership is rectifiable by professional training. i.e. you don't have to be a natural leader, just show potential to learn. You can be successful at OASC by not having the best developed leadership, but excel in other areas (eg aptitude)

Like anything, the more you practice/experience you have, the better you get. If you can expose yourself to leadership roles and team leading, then you will fare better at the exercises.

[Incipient Sinner]

Didn't complete my task and here I am assessing people!

The only advice I ever give for OASC is go out there and enjoy yourself. You'll show yourself at your best.

If you don't enjoy it then you won't enjoy the tougher challeges that are to come later and you're in the wrong job.

Crack on and give it your all.

[Onan the Clumsy]

I have a mate wot his wife went to the Army one. It was all she'd dreamed of since being a little gurl. She'd studdied and swotted for it and when she gets there they give her an exersize to get over an electric fence with a couple of planks, a Fairy Liquid bottle and some lollipop sticks.

No slouch her, she'd been watching Blue Peter, so she lays the plank onto the fence and gets her team over wivout a scratch on 'em...good as gold it was definately one in the bank she thought...only to be told she's failed.

"Wot?" says she "Wot d'yer mean failed yer tw@t?" the last bit under her breath of course.

"Well you got electrocuted because the plank toucheth the fence" came the earnest reply

"Bollocks!" quote she in a dudgeoness voice "wood doesn't conduct electricity you pig higgerent product of a council estate." again using sotto voce.

Well a kindly soul took her aside and said "Look luv they're doing you a favour here. You're right of course, any moron can tell that, but if you get upset at this show of ignorance, believe me, being in the Army will be like hell for you."

So instead she became "something in the City" and made packets and packets of money.

[Sunfish]

Just remember that the "test" may not be what you think it is. An Australian version has the "team" you are supposed to lead well briefed to screw up in the most unimaginable way possible. The leader who looses their cool as time ticks away fails.

Just be yourself and enjoy it.

[BEagle]

When I did my one and only session at OASC Biggin Hill at the age of 15 or 16, naivety of youth meant that they saw us as we really were without any attempts to be someone we weren't. Swinging around the hangar was just a bit of a game to us; some tasks were easier than others but it was how the team responded and how it was led which mattered more than dropping ropes into shark infested rivers!

I recall one of the other teams going through at the same time; one of the people-formally-known-as-WRAFs took a fairly basic approach to moving the fiberglassed kitbag labelled 'delicate instruments' over the obstacle - she swung it around her head and hurled it over. It sailed through the air and landed with a resounding crash, splitting open as it did so much to the amazement of the staff. I guess she later became a mover?

There must be an excellent 'Line Book' at OASC with some of the gems uttered by candidates?

[PPRuNeUser0211]

I'm sure there are some proper gems! Good old diverging tracks, that was one of mine.... failed to realise the tracks diverged, that was my problem!;)

Passed though, so it does go to show, it's how you handle being rubbish as much as being great that counts!

[VigilantPilot]

Whats a level 3?

[Vim_Fuego]

Good advice from all above...if you can get your stlye of leadership, the way you want to brief and lead your team sorted out in your head (think S.M.E.A.C, which if a new term to you then look it up or PM someone you trust on here) then the obstacle you are given is fairly irrelevent. The good people at OASC just want to see you in the raw to see if you are acceptable and malleable. Pre-contrived ideas on exercises may stunt your natural flair!

Slightly off subject but referring back to the comment on 'Gems in a linebook' it made me think back to when I went through and this priceless incident.

There was this 17 year old Mancunian cheeky chappy who was on my intake at OASC. He was going for loadie I think and had impressed all around him for his lack of being 'phased' by the surroundings and also for his forthright comments and knowledge of various subjects.

Post interviews most of us are hanging around in the candidates lounge when one of the staff, an ageing silvery haired Sqn Ldr ultilising a clipboard as an excuse to look busy, wandered over to our party. He was one of these blokes who you are assured is not assessing you at any time but still slips in the odd searching question in converstaion. He loitered by the 17 year old momentarily and slipped in the old chestnut, "so young man, what do you think of homosexuality?" (It was still a definate no-no when I went through and a favourite question to be asked). The 17 year old considered it for about a mili-second and with his future career teetering on his next few words came back with what seemed a purley reactionary response of, "why? Are you cruising for a bl*wjob?"

It certainly got the rest of us off any questions as the elderly S/L,stumped for words, tottered off for a strong cup of tea and a double ration of biscuits. I had my fist in my mouth attempting to stifle myself until at least he was out of earshot.

Never did find out if he got it...

Best wishes to all...Vim

[allan907]

Had 2 shots at OASC. Failed miserably the first time. The explanatory letter sent to my OC just wasn't written about me! However, I swallowed my pride and spent the next 2 years asking every officer I could lay my hands on just what they did and what their reaction was. The answers varied: "Wasn't particularly bothered, I had another job lined up" etc etc etc. Bottom line that I worked out was that they were being themselves when they went for selection. And that's what I did on the second occasion - and passed.

That reason became even clearer when I was posted as a flight commander at IOT and which I developed in cadets when I and a number of other flight commanders started the Recourse Squadron (now disbanded because the Recourse syllabus was eventually adopted for the Main Course).

BE YOURSELF!

[Neeps]

The tasks are designed so that you can give them a good shot without knowing what exactly they compromise. You may complete it, you may not but as the chaps on here have said that is irrelevant. I have OASC in a couple of months and I just plan to be relaxed and myself. Everyone I have spoken to says that they enjoyed their time at OASC, which is an attitude I've adopted. If I don't pass at least I can make sure I damn well give it my all and enjoy my time there.

Try not to worry too much.

[Tourist]

Just turn up in a bad Burton suit, tell everyone that you're wonderfull and they'll assume you are already trained as a zoomy pilot and snap you up!:E

[buoy15]

jamesnochain

Suggest you change your callsign to "jamesnochance" - but don't tell the OASC Staff - they might suss you out

Best of luck on your next attempt and all the others after that!

Regards B15

[WorkingHard]

OASC at Biggin Hill in my day and I was helped a great deal by a SNCO who was in the "intake" He was one of life's great characters and I never really understood why he was there as he seemed totally uninterested in becoming an officer but thought the time at Biggin Hill was such great fun.

[Time Flies]

to quote allan907

I swallowed my pride and spent the next 2 years asking every officer I could lay my hands on just what they did and what their reaction was.

I can imagine what their reaction was after you lay your hands on them! Flight Commanders...all the same! :yuk:

[VigilantPilot]

Ignore those that tell you the recruiting situation is bad, or paint the most pessimistic picture possble. I have seen all sorts of wrong rumours typed by people who are purely speculating here. They are still recruiting aircrew. Maybe not quite in such numbers, but the cuts are not as dramatic as some make out.

Go with a positive attitude and enjoy it.

[Neeps]

Ignore those that tell you the recruiting situation is bad, or paint the most pessimistic picture possble. I have seen all sorts of wrong rumours typed by people who are purely speculating here. They are still recruiting aircrew. Maybe not quite in such numbers, but the cuts are not as dramatic as some make out.

Go with a positive attitude and enjoy it.

I agree, I have found that some candidates are the worst for fuelling these rumors. Not being 'in the know' yet hungry for any information on the recruiting situation. I have heard everything from there being no pilot slots this year to 110. Fact is, the branch hasn't closed off yet, so who cares how many slots there are if they are still recruiting? You only need one of them!

[Lord Flash-Hart]

Hi,

I came away from OASC exactly 3 weeks today and i was told whilst i was there that i would hear within 2-3 weeks. If the letter doesn't arrive today do you think it would be wise to give them a call or leave it for another day or two?

Cheers.
Rich.

[Regie Mental]

Mmmmmmmm, tough one. Perhaps the fact you have to ask the question on a forum such as this may give an indication of the likely outcome (although I wish you all the best).

[joe2812]

Forget where I read it but some guy phoned up Cranwell only to find they'd misplaced his letter.

Just ring up, worst they can say is you're socially inept and didn't have a hope in hell's chance in the first place.

Or they can say you're in.

Ring 'em.

[Neeps]

Forget where I read it but some guy phoned up Cranwell only to find they'd misplaced his letter.
I think it was 40k thread on how to PVR.

No harm in phoning them, you should have been given a number to ring about your application.

It just depends when the air boards sits and when you happened to go through, as to when you find out I think.

[VigilantPilot]

Definitely call them. There are occasions where you are close on one board, but just miss out and they roll you over to the next board.

[Lord Flash-Hart]

i called them this morning and it has been posted today!!! its like waiting to be shot!!!!!

Rich.

[UberPilot]

i called them this morning and it has been posted today!!! its like waiting to be shot!!!!!

In which case I hope your Mother has got the Revolver ready to give the Coup de Grace !

[serf]

Get used to waiting..................just treat this as the first hold of many.

[UberPilot]

Ring the AFCO and say you're going away for two weeks and they should tell you over the phone - that's assuming they're helpful.

[joe2812]

Let us know of the result won't ya...

[Lord Flash-Hart]

Hi,

I received the long awaited letter and it was a no. They have given me things to work on for applying next year and said they will be holding a meeting in january and may consider me for NCA. They basically said my interview was strong and with a credible fitness test score i was recommended for phase two but apparently during the exercise phase my confidence wavered and i tended to blush when put in the spot light especially when my own ideas were exhausted! but they have said if i improve my problem solving skills and leadership then i may stand a better chance next year.

So if anyone could suggest anything i could do to improve these then it would be most appreciated.

Cheers for the pre-OASC help and advice too!

Rich.

[bowly]

Never mind mate. Valiant effort. Good to see your hopes are still there, which is very commendable. I failed 1st time and have gone on to savour the delights of FJ flying. Don't give up.......

[Bluntend]

Lord Flash-Hart.

Sorry to hear that OASC didn't go according to plan. I am sure that there are many on here who have far more experience and advice to give, but I'll throw in my thoughts to get the ball rolling.

Would it be worth considering, between now and your next attempt, trying to fit in some Adventure Training either in the UK or overseas. As a student I went away to Belize for a three month Expedition with Raleigh International. Aside from the fact that I had a great time, saw a bit of the world I wouldn't have seen as a tourist and had a break from my studies, I genuinely feel the experience improved a lot of my personnal skills. At the end of the exped, I returned to the UK with a better understanding of my own strengths and weaknesses, improved confidence and a real understanding of what teamwork and leadership really mean. You can try to simulate challenging situations in the sterile environment of a hangar or work through exercises with a pen and paper but there is no substitute for first hand experience. There are a growing number of charity organisations out there that run expeditions to far flung corners of the world, so it may be worth having a look and see if any take your fancy. At the end of the day, even if you come back from an exped completely unchanged (highly unlikely), should you get asked at OASC what you did to improve your chances, "I help build a school in Bangladesh" or "I lead an exped through the Andes" is bound to impress. Just a suggestion and I am sure there are far more people on here with their own thoughts and experiences, but it may be worth looking into. Good luck and keep smiling...

[joe2812]

Unlucky mate... best of luck working on the issues raised and with your next attempt.

Don't give up! :ok:

[small_dog]

Sorry to hear about your knock back from OASC. The big thing now is to show them that you have listened to their advice and have undertaken activities to improve your weak areas.
What can help with practical problem solving skills and can also give you something more to talk about in the interview is a week long working holiday with the National Trust where you build wooden fences/repair walls. It is pretty straightforward to get yourself booked onto one (via their website) and they are more fun than you think. Granted, the adventurous training expeds would be ideal but if you cant get yourself onto an exped, a working holiday will help.
All the best

[UberPilot]

Go to the Army Careers office and say you want to join. If you can get on the Regular Commissions Board then it's good experience and you might even get into the Army. But, in all seriousness, once you've been to Westbury, Cranwell is very tame!!

[Taffer]

Or try the AIB at Gosport.

The Senior Service is wanting people to join as aircrew, and the uniform is nattier than the blue/grey crab alternative.

Unless worn by Flt. Lt. Kathy West, that is..........

[Melchett01]

LFH

Bad luck old bean, but I wouldn't worry too much about it. Not sure how old you are, but if you are 18/19/20, you still have time to go away and remedy the situation before going back

On the plus side, you can get one of several letters; despite your letter being a 'no', at least it doesn't sound like the never darken our doorstep again you oxygen thief version that exists.

If you are of uni age, consider going and getting a degree under your belt - works wonders for the whole life experience/confidence/self reliance thing. It could be very useful a few years down the road - assuming you get in, there are still no guarantees you will make it to the front line, what with choppings, re-streams and general cock-ups from those wearing the scrammbled egg to contend with; a degree will at least give you something to fall back on now that the RAF is a less certain organisation than it once was. If past uni, Bluntend speaks sound words and that is something I would consider if you can wangle it.

If it helps any, second time round was a doddle, so chin up and crack on. It's easy for those who breezed through every stage of selection & trg to spout advice, but when the brown stuff hits the fan is when you see how people really react. As someone who has at times been knee deep in the brown and smelly, I'm a firm believer that a bit of bother en route to the final destination and how you dealt with it is not necessarily a bad thing for the whole officer qualities thing.

[Lord Flash-Hart]

Cheers for the help and advice.

I am 21 and graduated from university this year so I have gained that experience and improved the areas that they pointed out in 2001 when I applied. I have looked into the trips abroad and adventure training etc and I think that may be something I will do in the New Year. I have also thought about applying for fire service and police force so that I have some training and involvement with the community (something else they pointed out: His lack of involvement with the local community has hampered is social awareness!). If I am successful with either of these, and I am not meant to be an RAF officer, I still have a career to fall back on while I decide whether I want to take the NCA route. Alternatively I could get myself on the property ladder so that I can borrow large amounts of money to go civilian!

I have had people say since receiving the letter, "if flying isn’t for you then you need to cross it off your list and start a different career." It’s a little easier said than done when everything I have done since the age of 13 has been aimed towards becoming an RAF pilot. Accepting the fact that I can't fly for a career will be very difficult.

Rich.

[airborne_artist]

I have also thought about applying for fire service and police force so that I have some training and involvement with the community (something else they pointed out: His lack of involvement with the local community has hampered is social awareness!).

Depending on where you live you could join as a SpeciaL Constable, or a retained firefighter, or even the TA. If the latter interests you then PM me.

[Yellowbaron]

Well, I know folk who have performed outstandingly and been told they were overconfident, a year later after the same performance , underconfident...now they just do loads of courses between selections and enjoy the bar at OASC.

[Neeps]

Sorry for the recent abundance of OASC threads, I promise to keep it quick. ;)

If a candidate was unable to partake in the fitness test due to being temporarily unfit, what course of action would OASC take? How would this affect an application?

[VigilantPilot]

If the individual isn't up to the fitness test, then maybe they wouldn't physically be in the best shape for the whole selection week?

I assume they might postpone it, and make it a caveat on any place offered...maybe.

I know that if you need further medical tests, they can still offer you a place subject to passing the other medicals.

[Neeps]

The rest of the selection week would be alright though, just not the fitness test.

Just not sure what the course of action would be in the currect selection climate.

Also given that the fitness test is pass/fail.

OASC will be getting a phonecall soon, I just wondered what provisional thoughts were on the matter.

[VigilantPilot]

The hangar exercises are quite physical - I would thought they might postpone the selection. Only speculation though!

[Twonston Pickle]

If you fail the medical, even for a temporary reason, your selection will be suspended immediately; the RAF cannot afford to have unfit people attempting fitness tests and hangar exercises after a doctor has said they are unfit. No deviation or exemption possible.

[Neeps]

Thanks for the clarification.

[VigilantPilot]

I suppose it depends on what we are talking about here. I would have thought that if you temporarily could not undertake the fitness test, even if you might still pass the medical (maybe sprained ankle or something), then it would be beneficial to warn OASC and hope to defer the selection week, because its surely not going to help on the hangar exercises.

Twonston Pickle - I know someone who was temporarily unfit all branches after the medical, but they successfully completed eveything else.

[Well Travelled Nav]

This is gen, from someone who works at OASC.

If you are assessed as TU it normally means a specialist medical opinion is required. The Candidate will normally complete the selection process, assuming you pass the interview & aptitude tests.

Only if you are selectable in the long term will a specialist medical appointment be made. It saves money etc.

If you are unfit to complete the fitness test due to a cold or recent injury, then you can be asked to return at a later date when you are fit to take the test.

WTN

[VigilantPilot]

Thank you WTN. I believe that was the exact circumstances I was trying to describe.

[joshiii]

Hi i am going to OASC at RAFC Cranwell soon and i was wondering what the expectations are for the fitness, i know how many you need to do but what variation of situps and pressups are they expecting, are the situps just to lift your sholders a few inches off the ground and are the pressups to get you nose to touch the floor?

Thanks

[VigilantPilot]

I'm pretty sure that at OASC, the only physical test is the Bleep Test. If I remember rightly, if you are male and achieve over 10.11 you get an 'excellent' tick. With a bit of effort training before the day, it shouldn't be hard to achieve in the elevens.

I can't remember press-ups being in it. The standard way to do a press up is with a buddy placing a fist under your chest. With the back straight, you must touch the fist with your chest to count as one.

[Michael Edic]

The good/very good/excellent categories on the MSFT (bleep test) have been increased to a slightly less laughable level recently for the annual fit test. Unsure about whether this has translated itself into the OASC test as well. Perhaps someone out there knows? Of course if you are a girl you still only have to be able to achieve brisk walking pace to pass, the RAF is an "equal opportunities" employer!!

[Pontius Navigator]

And don't be surprised at the 'climb out of the pool without assistance'.

This is a real pool, not one of the modern ones where the water laps the top or the edge of the pool is the 'hand rail'. I seem to remember this pool has an in-water hand rail as the edge is too high to hold easily. It follows that it is quite a pullup in a wet growbag.

Could be wrong as I've been in a few pools since.

[PerArdua]

Find out what level bleep test you require for your age. If you can do 1 level better thats as good as it needs to be. Don't try too hard when you first arrive, as improvement is the key (makes the PTIs look good)
The 1 1/2 mile at the fam visit, just decides which PTI group you will be in.
Group 1. Is for racing snakes and fitness freaks so you will work really hard during IOT.
Group 2. Is for the competitve but not so fit, so you will still work really hard.
Group 3. Hear goes the none PC bit, is generally for the couch potatoes and the girls.
Now the logic, they will nearly all pass IOT regardless of fitness, so if you like looking at girls arses and you want to be able to improve, go for a nice steady run on the fam visit.
You aint seen me right!

Steady it was, Group 3 was great fun, no I am not a couch potato just a lecherous old romantic!!! In fact I was fitter before I did IOT.

PA

[joshiii]

What i meant to ask is how you do situps for the fitness, how far up do you need to come?

[Dreaming of Wsop]

Hi Guys,

I was at OASC August last year, the fitness test is a MSFT - Beep Test, you are looking at a minimum of level 9.10, then you do press ups - 60 seconds - minimum of 13, then sit ups - again 1 min - minimum of 35.
These are mimimum standards, they are looking for maximums at OASC, you need to aim for at least level 11 on the MSFT. These targets are pased on younger than 25, the older you get the lower they get.
For the sit ups you need to be touching your temples with your finger tips and then bring your body up until your elbows touch your knees.
There is stacks of information on OASC here - http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=96

[Op Tastic]

Don't forget you will be expected to know how to play the fruit machine in the Mess.

[joshiii]

when you say your elbow touch your knees does it matter is they touch you thighs because my elbows go down towards my groin when i do them, and am i right when i say that your head and shoulders should not touch the floor throughout the set?

[KENNYR]

If you are considering a career on Hercules or VC10's then all you require is the ability to eat 20 pies in as many minutes.:)

RAF and Fitness dont really belong in the same sentence.:ok:

[BellEndBob]

If the standards are as you say, how come we are getting so many fat, generally unfit, officers turning up on their first tour? This is most common amongst the females, some of whom are actually obese.
Is it lack of enforcement at Cranwell?
Many many moons ago, when I went through IOT, we were beasted on the physical side and I left resembling a racing snake as did my peers. Those who did not make the grade fell by the wayside.
That's why I am scratching my head. The standards seem correct but, somehow, the end product does not support this (in some cases).

BellEnd

[Brakes...beer]

I suspect the standards are as stated, ie pretty low. I left IOT 14 years ago and then completed the newly introduced bleep test. The required standard barely required us to break into a sweat, although it may have gone up since.
GCSEs, A-Levels, Firsts, IOT: change and decay in all around I see...;)

[haribo boy]

Lets face it, if you have to worry about the most trivial event at OASC (fitness test) then you should be thinking about your EI regarding the interview, group problem solving, speed distance yada yada yada. THINK BIG PICTURE. Look at the state of some members of the RAF, fitness! Well bending over to put on their quality, suppotive and shock absorbing HITEC Silver Shadows is their best effort for their bleep test. On the very subject of bleep test, i always thought we should run away from the enemy not backwards and forwards till they shoot you and golly gee if you cant survive in the armed forces for a year just by getting by on 11 press ups,......sorry got to dash to go down the Gym for my fitness test.

[Time Flies]

joshiii

You are looking far too much into this. It doesn't matter where your elbows meet your legs...you will only need to do just over a dozen situps in a minute.

As someone already pointed out, concentrate on something more worthwhile.

On that note..........

[Felix Saddler]

How do you come about flying for the red arrows? im currently 17 and doing my A-levels, however because of my rough time last year with family problems, i have completely underachieved this year and feel like i may need to resit the whole year to get back on track!! My Question is: what are the chances of me getting into the RAF as pilot with poor school qualifications?

Away from school i completely succeed in the other requirments i believe the RAF look for, as i have my Duke of Edinburgh Gold award, im in Air cadets, and do alot of recreational activities: camping - climbing - cycling - etc etc etc.

My dream is to get into the air force as a pilot but i fear that because of my poor school qualifications that this may prevent me from this. Im not the kind of person to sit around and do nothing all day, i like to get up and do things - go places - et cetera. This is why i believe the RAF is for me and will do my absolute upmost to achieve my dream.

What are the chances of my succeeding with my poor school qualifications? However as far as what the RAF are looking for, i'm it!!
Also how does ones self get itself aquainted with someone like the red arrows?

Kind Regards,

Felix Saddler. :D

[The Swinging Monkey]

Felix old boy,
I like your enthusiasm, but the first thing you need to do is go back to school and learn some ENGLISH!!!

Your post was appalling quite frankly. Sorry to be pedantic, but come on, what about capitals? punctuation? grammar? Do they not teach you any of that at school these days? Unless you can get the basics right, I don't care how good you might think you are, you will not get accepted. (or should not anyway!)

As far as becoming a Red Arrow team member, I think your chances are less than nil - sorry, but that's the way it is. And as for this 'Also how does ones self get itself aquainted with someone like the red arrows?' well, ones self does NOT get aquainted with them, they get aquainted with you (ones self that is!)


Still, go for it, what have you got to loose?
Kind regards to all
TSM

[Northern Circuit]

why is it that all wanna bees get their posts staffed by avid red penners?

an informal request on an informal forum isnt a dessitation for analysis lol

oh and TSM - hes got nothing to lose - terrible english old bean

[airborne_artist]

TSM

If you are going to pick the guy up on his grammar, for :mad: :mad: ck's sake check your spelling first.


FS - take the pain now, do the re-sits, get to the recruiting office and the RAF web site and find out all you need to know about aircrew and officer selection, and good luck.

[The Swinging Monkey]

Northern Circuit,
Don't be silly ol boy, I am in no way a red penner, as you put it. But impressions do count, and if you received a letter of that quality, what would you think? good or bad?
Good luck to him as I say, but lets be honest, with English like that his chances are slim at best wouldn't you agree?
TSM

[jayteeto]

The second post is so important for wannabees. It is not personal, it is good advice. The army cannot recruit enough infantry these days, but trust me, the RAF have a surplus of pilot applications. Just take a minute to think and you can answer your own question. Lots of candidates have your enthusiasm; you have to stand out from the crowd. You may have been red-penned, but often this is what is needed to make people realise what is actually required. If someone is up against you in selection for the minute number of slots and they have better qualifications, grammar, punctuation and apparant personality, they will take YOUR place. First impressions count and your first impression here could have been better. Lucky for you that this doesn't count for real :=

[Northern Circuit]

TSM there is a difference in composing a formal letter and posting an informal paragraph on a forum tho.

Felix - take Mr Artist's advice - re-sit and get some qualifications - no pain no gain im afraid

[keithl]

why is it that all wanna bees get their posts staffed by avid red penners?
an informal request on an informal forum isnt a dessitation for analysis lol
oh and TSM - hes got nothing to lose - terrible english old bean
Why is it that most wannabes appear illiterate?
The anti-pedantic say literacy doesn't matter provided you can make yourself understood. They have not grasped the fact that grammar has evolved to clarify written and spoken expression.
Clarity of expression is particularly vital in aviation.
I rest my case.

[Winco]

Felix,

As TSM says, you must sort out your English, it is very poor. As someone who has sat on the selection board at OASC (Cranwell) I can tell you that if I had seen that kind of English writing, then I would have marked you down heavily. It is not acceptable to be frank with you. It is OK for those who say it doesn't matter, but the fact is 'It Does' and it may very well make the difference, in todays climate, between getting in and not.

So, go back and sit your exams again if they are not good, sort out your English problems (grammar, punctuation etc.) and give it a go.

The Winco

[A2QFI]

Good afternoon Felix
Thanks for posting on the forum with your questions. I see that you have already been savaged by the Grammar and Syntax Nazis! The fact is that a modern British education does not seem to equip people for reading and writing in the world outside school but you have already acknowledged that and accept that you have to work on these.
Another prospective pilot posted here a few days ago and was given a very hard time (IMHO). However, you might like to read thru his questions and and the few relevant and helpful comments that he got. You might find some are applicable to your situation.
Your first posting wasn't 100% by the book but it was way better than his!
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=235274
Good luck and don't be put off by the 'Banter'
3 errors of grammar, punctuation and syntax in post #4, BTW, not that I care!

[flipster]

TSM - a bit harsh, old bean? Give the guy a break?

Felix,

If you only have the bare educational minimum - you will be expected by OASC to have surpassed these minimums - so TSM is right (to a point)! Get working on the English grammar, along with showing some determination to always do better than 'just ok'.

If, however, there are exceptional family circumstances that mean that your achievements are 'over and above' those which were expected, then this might count in your favour - maybe! Check with the CIO/careers advisors; they would be better able to judge how OASC would see your circumstances.

Nonetheless, I would recommend that you show greater commitment to your dream by improving what quals you have already got. The 'never say die' attitude is important to you becoming a Serviceman - of any rank or trade. I suspect you have some of this grit; DOE Gold and doing well at ATC is not easy - use that 'plus point' to give you confidence for the 'mountain' you are about to attempt to climb.

But if you want to be a Red Arrow - go for it! If you set your sights that high, then you may feel ok when only get as far as............???!
(A bit of advice - never say to your mates, that you want to be a Red Arrow - they will rib you mercilessly - keep it to yourself!)

Best of British:ok: :ok:

Flipster

ps I have taught and flown with a number of 'Reds'. They are normal human beings just like you and me (mostly). However, it is obvious from first meeting them that, while they have exceptional flying skills, they also have high intellects and a huge dollop of gritty determination to succeed. (Be warned - 'high intellect' does not necessarily mean lots of GCSEs, A Levels or university degrees!)

[Felix Saddler]

Ok folks,

I realise you have alot of fun with the Illiterate wanabee’s on this site, However, I believe you may have gotten the wrong impression of me. I am not, whilst amidst the rest, a lethargic, incompetent, lacklustre teen. I do have 14 GCSE’s under my belt, 6A*’s and 8A’s, Both English Lit and language, A*.
When I posted this thread, I wasn’t writing in the manner as I would if I was writing an informal letter to someone important. I can completely understand your decision to criticize my elementary post, nevertheless, I do not think I am the best, nor the worst , but an individual with great determination, who is vastly philosophical.
So I apologise for my inconsiderate attitude with regard to my grammar and will strive to enhance it for the future.
Away From that, I understand what you say about the qualifications, I was unfortunately involved in a malicious environment last year which put an extensive amount of pressure on my back, This pressure mounted as I was predicted 5A’s for my A-Levels. On saying that, I was without a shadow of a doubt expected to achieve this high level of performance which is why i believe i have underachieved.
If I was to resit my AS year and attain this kind of success, which I am more than capable of, would I still have a chance with the RAF?

Kind Regards,

Felix Saddler. :D

[tonkatechie]

If you've had personal problems that have distracted you from your studies, the best thing is to resit the year, and get th equalifications that best demonstrate your abilities! You are quite obviously young, and as such impatient to get on with living out your dreams, but rest assured that you have plenty of time to acheive them - just give yourself the best chance.
Your posting here has already given you a good insight into the RAF: people will happily shoot you down the moment you open your mouth to say 'hello', and there's a hell of a lot of 'banter'. Deal with it like an adult; you can happily ignore people who chastise you for your spelling and grammer when, 3 times in one paragraph, the follow a question mark with a lower case letter. Start of a new sentance anyone? That said, poor spelling isn't necessarily a massive hurdle, I once had a Wing Commander write in the F707A that there was a "loose rivot on the l/h wing". Full marks for observation, but not spelt correctly. See where the important stuff lies? Better to have someone who's smart, and can communicate his or her point, than having a total pedant that spends the whole pay picking fault in others.

Rant switch to 'off', brew on.

Edited to add: Sorry to Northern Circuit for my lack of brevity!

[Winco]

Felix,
I'm afraid you have just blown it with that little outbust.
The pathetic excuse about a bike ride, and then the 'superfluous bollocks' comment does little but show your lack of maturity and failure to grasp comments which are both true and accurate. Whilst TSM might have been a bit abrupt in what he said, the fact remains that he is correct, sorry.

The Winco

[Northern Circuit]

felix

have a look at the RAF's career website.

http://www.rafcareers.com/?flash=yes&

phone your local career information office and ask for details on minimum qualifications

If you are sucessful, when you are ready for interviews there is much more work to be done in swotting up on current affairs/NATO etc (the CIO will give you advice on these matters)

apoligies to me for lack of brevity

[Felix Saddler]

I don't want to be achieving the minimum qualifications, i would just like to know if i was to resit a year and achieve around 4A's, i would still have a good chance?

[Northern Circuit]

I don't want to be achieving the minimum qualifications, i would just like to know if i was to resit a year and achieve around 4A's, i would still have a good chance?


I suggest you phone the CIO and ask them directly. 0845 605 5555

[A2QFI]

Qualifications: 5 GCSEs/SCEs and 2 A-levels or 3 Highers or equivalent. GCSEs/SCEs at Grade C/3 minimum to include English language and maths
Nationality: British citizen since birth or holder of dual British/other nationality
Then pass a lot of very demanding physical and mental selection procedures plus a medical. Have you ever had asthma, are you even slightly colour blind? You are beginning to see what the targets are, now make a plan to achieve them!

[DSAT Man]

Felix


I shall try and point you in the right direction.

First of all, make sure that you have the right qualifications; your Armed Forces Careers Office or the RAF Careers website will give you the details.

Next, make sure that you can show that you have what we want. If you can see through the jibes already posted, you will already have some idea.

At your filter interviews and, if selected, OASC, be smart, polite, punctual and positive. Look confident and composed. Speak up, speak well and sound the part. You will need to show that you have something special that sets you apart from all the others who apply. For example, show that you have lots of interests, tell them how you keep yourself fit (no bull**** because you will be tested) and know as much as you can about the military, (the RAF, our inventory of aircraft, our work) and current affairs.

You will need to be good and you will need to impress. Over to you.

DSAT Man

[Felix Saddler]

thankyou very much, i would like to resit my As year so that i can achieve my predicted level of performance, 4 or 5 A's. Would this be frowned upon?

[Mr C Hinecap]

thankyou very much NC,

I am a newbie and am not used to this formal conversation unlike the other forums or msn where it doesn't matter whether or not someone has missed out a capital after a full stop, no one cares. :D

That is why the vast majority of those out there will never get to join the RAF. We are quite a picky bunch and the numbers are reducing. This means the entry is tougher, so you may as well accept that from the start. There are also a number of 'old and bold' on here who will chunter on about how things used to be and how standards have dropped. Sometimes I do agree with them.

Nobody will look down on you in any way for going back and ensuring you get the grades you feel you deserve. It shows determination, strength of character and a high level of personal resolve. These and a thick skin you will need to hang around here!

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Felix

Go to the link http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=235274 that A2QFI gave you. This will do 2 things:

a. tell you most about what you want to (need to) know

b. make you feel better. Some other poor bugger got toasted worse than you did!

Best of luck,

G B Z

[South Bound]

If you feel the need to prove something to yourself then crack on dear boy. Otherwise, if you have achieved the required standard, join up as quickly as you can and start enjoying the life. Most of us come from an era when no-one did more than 3 A-levels (4 if you did extra maths or had a home tutor). In 5 years' time the A-levels will be worthless - they are purely a means to getting a job - if you have achieved the standard, why bother striving for more.

As to the Red Arrows, no harm in having ambition matey, just keep it to yourself, because as you have no doubt already found out we are a harsh bunch and will rib anyone will aspires to be better than average - go for it.

As for Superfluous Bollox - I thought it was a good call, give some of it back! :D

[rarelyathome]

Felix. Work hard to get the grades you need and give it a go.
While you're at it, re-read your last post (Ser 20!) and stop giving your detractors so much ammunition! :ok:
RAH

[teeteringhead]

Some sound advice here Felix, but it may be difficult for you to find it amongst some amazing waffle/pedantry etc etc. The minimum academic standards are just that - there are few points to be scored (I strongly suspect) by exceeding them. The choice as to whether you are acceptable or not is unlikely to hinge on grades.

Academics are the very coarse mesh filters that exclude those who couldn't do basic maths without a calculator. Much more important to the selectors at OASC is the whole person (hence the time it takes!). Fitness, team sports, ATC and D of E are plus points, and practical rather than academic knowledge is good (not A*s, but how long would 17 miles take at 180 kts). Sadly you must also have flying aptitude, which (probably) you're born with or not. To fly as a pilot in the RAF you will be part of a tiny proportion of those who fly, to fly fast jet a smaller proportion, and to be a Red even smaller - there are only 3 hotly contested vacancies each year.

But hey - why not you? Don't mention the Reds unless and until you're a 2 tour FJ pilot with display experience. Keep wanting it though, and search through these threads, there's lots of good stuff to be found.

And everyone was a wannabee once. Good luck! ... and don't worry too much about the academics!

[SiClick]

Hi Felix
I have to agree with southbound, unless you want to prove something to yourself, I wouldn't waste time re-sitting exams. If you have the minimum entry requirements the selection team will be more interested in your D of E etc.
As for English, I was crap at English, and still am. I got the required English "O" level, because you couldn't join without it. Thereafter I joined the RAF and was one of many RAF pilots who were crap at English.
Start with the Careers Information Office, and don't give in. I would say the one characteristic that marks out pilots from other people, is that Pilots are more determined to make it as a pilot, than other people, and they are prepared to do whatever it takes to get there.
Good luck, and remember that some of the more critical folk on this thread are the same sorts of people that you'll have to get through, at Cranwell etc, to succeed, so smile, and think arsehole, without saying, or writing, anything.
SiClick

[saudipc-9]

Well i'm an A2 Qfi and I dont speel good either. but i doo drunk beer good.

Go four it i saw. Flyun an aeroplane got nuthin to do weth gud english.:p

[Felix Saddler]

Thanks for the sound advice folks, I'm choosing to ignore the speculation as to my mistakes in my previous threads as it's not getting me anywhere, and take note of the sound advice available. I am grateful for your responses with respect to the qualifications, as it has been a great burdon to me the last couple of months.

FS

[flipster]

Felix

I resat my poor first attempt at A levels, as I believed they were not a true reflection of what I could do. It was a matter of principle to me and I said as much in my OASC interviews; whether it counted for much I don't know but I felt better having got 4 good results under my belt.

Ignore the banter, smile and send it back with interest - As I said before, go for it but don't underestimate the 'steepness of the curve'.

Good luck

Flipster

[Felix Saddler]

Thankyou, i just read the poor guys post, (Gareth123) and to be honest I can see why you retort like you do, I mean I know my fundamental post was ghastly but there is no comparison… He could have never received such grades he’s a lightweight.

[Skeleton]

Two and a bit pages of in the main drivel about grammar and spelling. Yes in the context of the OP's original question, spelling and grammar are important but this could have been pointed out in a more mannerly way and his questions then answered, but this thread is no longer about his questions, it has turned into yet another debate about spelling and grammar!!!

Can we please keep on track - This weeping and wailing about spelling is getting boring now.

I for one will not be spell checking any reply from now on. Its a forum not a classroom. (Does that make me sound hard) :)

[Laarbruch72]

Too be fair ...... lol

I'm glad Felix that Maths is your strong point.

I'm also sorry that you have taken a kicking on here re: your English. But take on board what other posters have said, and take it in good grace. If you speak in "textspeak" you lose gravitas straight away.
You are not on MSN now, or texting your buddies.
Look at what you write, and CHECK it.

I'm only a dumb copper, but I was Grammar School educated and I make damn sure no-one will pick me up for spelling etc in here. It's a personal pride thing, and also it's only basic English anyway.

While you are re-taking your A levels, try to get out of the habit of "textspeak" and "MSN speak". Write some letters by hand, read the papers. Get to know and love the English language.

You stand a far better chance then at OASC.
Good luck anyway, reach for your dreams.

Regards,
Laar.

[Felix Saddler]

Thank you, I have taken on board what you folk have taught me, that is the transition between one spectrum to another that makes a heap of a difference, and one must strive to perform professionally at all times in order to succeed, particularly in the vicinity of others with a superior rank. Graft and determination are the key here, and are ought to be used wisely.

Many Thanks Guys,

Kind Regards,

Felix Saddler. :D

[Laarbruch72]

Thank you, I have taken on board what you folk have taught me, that is the transition between one spectrum to another that makes a heap of a difference, and one must strive to perform professionally at all times in order to succeed, particularly in the vicinity of others with a superior rank. Graft and determination are the key here, and are ought to be used wisely.

Many Thanks Guys,

Kind Regards,

Felix Saddler. :D


My Gawd Merry Poppins! He's only gawn and learned to speak the bladdy queens Engerlish! (nearly!)
I hope I have the same bladdy respect when I'm in a room tawkin' to RAF Superior ranks abawt the feckin RAF! Heh heh.

Yep graft and determination are deffo ought to be used wisely (sic).

Good luck at being Red 1 in the future anyway. Maybe you could join my trade with that English to start, and we'd knock it out of you! Go from there!

Or maybe the Regiment beckons?

Good luck anyway fella.

Laar.

[PPRuNe Pop]

I remember a young man at a Biggin Hill Air Fair day who was airside - I can't remember the year but a long time ago - saying to me during an idle chat after my display, and while the Reds were airborne, that he would be one of them one day.

His name was Simon Meade.

[brit bus driver]

His name was Simon Meade.

They have loadies in the Red Arrows?....most odd. :eek: Wouldn't have thought there'd be time for a Ginsters and a cuppa, but you live and learn.

Oh, and sorry to harp on but this is really bugging me...Felix, your first post wasn't your "elemental" or your "fundamental" post; did you perhaps mean your initial post? Sorry, but don't swallow a thesaurus and then interject long words completely out of context. Keep it simple and succinct.

[Pedantic knob switch back to the O-F-F position...]

Good luck in your endeavours.

[Green Meat]

Felix

The real purpose behind the correct use of grammar and spelling is make your point in as clear a manner as possible, leaving no room for misinterpretation or ambiguity. This has proven to be vital on more than one occasion, particularly when legal brethren are involved!

A very useful skill, but not one I always adhere to on here :p

Some advice that may be of use:
1) Be careful of malpropisms, though, make sure you know what a word actually means before you use it!
2) Speak to the AFCO, they are the recruitment channel and are usually fairly 'in the know'. Any difficult questions can, and indeed are, referred to OASC.
3) Have the fortitude to resit, if that is what you want to do. Don't for a minute, however, assume that it will be an easy ride to:
a) convince your teachers that you deserve a complete re-start, and;
b) re-sit, thinking that you have been through this already and that you know everything.
4) Have a clear goal (which you seem to have), a plan of how you are going to get there and, most importantly, support that plan with facts from the authoritative source.

[TOPBUNKER]

GREEN MEAT:


Would that have been the use of MALOPROPISMS (Sp) to be careful of the use of, of?

The rest of your diatribe counts for nothing with such a poorly spelled and reasoned opening gambit!

[Collapsar]

GREEN MEAT:
Would that have been the use of MALOPROPISMS (Sp) to be careful of the use of, of?
Acknowledging that you were unsure of the spelling, it is MALAPROPISMS.
Just so you know next time.:}

[Lord Flash-Hart]

Hi,

Just to let the potential applicants know that my site is back online and as far as i am aware....working properly.

http://www.oascprep.co.uk

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Cheers
Rich.

[ghm83]

Hello all,

I wonder if anybody would be able to clear up a query I have. RAF literature I have come across states that "a degree of a United Kingdom University... will entitle an applicant who has been accepted as an aircrew officer to commissioning on entry and to quicker promotion".
Does anybody know whether this means that any degree class - from Pass upwards - is sufficient?

Thank you for your help.

[airborne_artist]

You'll need a pretty good story if you have less than a Desmond :E

[charliegolf]

OK, I'll bite- why not Cardiff Poly?

CG

[ghm83]

Ah yes, you can see I am from Cardiff. It's only 115 miles to Oxford though, so I got my degree there instead.
However, it is only a 3rd Class BA in Physics, and despite having 5 A Levels behind it, I was wondering if anybody knew whether there exists a rigid policy of not recognising anything below a 2:2.

Again, any info would be much appreciated.

[charliegolf]

Oxford Poly then. Should be fine. Anyway, a 3rd in Physics beats a first in underwater basket weaving or media studies or economics IMO. And if it's a Physics BA you got, you're REALLY special!

CG

[charliegolf]

'Tis true, I was a warp and wefter!

[santiago15]

G83,

A 3rd would certainly not precluded you from joining the RAF. However, the bods at OASC will want to know your Uni grade: they will use it,although not exclusively, to gauge your academic ability. You will be asked, in the interview, whether you were happy with the award of a third; have a short retort up your sleeve ie. "No, although I chose a difficult course and I believe my A Level results are a more accurate reflection of my academic ability.....blah"

If it makes you feel any better, I know a Harrier pilot who got a 3rd at uni.

All the best

S15

[ghm83]

Excellent - many thanks for that, S15.

[Nibbled2DeathByDucks]

As long as it's a degree, it doesn't seem to matter what grade it is - mines a pass and it guaranteed me graduate entry :D

[FFP]

Guys flying on the front line with degree's from University if Glamorgan (Ponty Tech !!) and a PASS only from Cambridge.

And more importantly, with no degree at all :ok:

[teeteringhead]

As has been mentioned on many other threads - academic results are one of the smaller hurdles you'll need to leap.

That said, speaking to some OASC selectors not long ago, I discovered that (sensibly) the class of degree is very much matched by them with where it came from .... all "Desmonds" are equal, but some are more equal than others.....

[OpsMunkie]

I got in with a 2:2 BA Sport In The Community. A 3rd in Physics must surely beat that :)

[foldingwings]

The only question I would prepare myself for would relate to:

"Why only a 3rd?" In other words: What activity, distraction or reason was there for you not achieving a higher grade at Oxford? Thus, they will want to test only your dedication levels. A well-considered answer will win, a poor answer might blow you away!

Degree or not, if your application survives AFCO scrutiny, you will be entering a very competitive field at OASC and its your performance there that will carry the day.

Good luck!

[South Bound]

Makes me laugh all this rubbish about what degree we all got. Bottom line is that you don't need a degree to join and it makes no difference once you are accepted anyway. Relax about it, you will get your extra year of seniority with a 3rd, it seems like a lot of us here did (and I need mine for my job!)

[sonicstomp]

A 3rd from Oxford automatically outclasses any degree from any other university, and a sensible recruitment officer should recognise this.

A 3rd from Fenland Poly (Cambridge) - now that would be difficult to worm your way out of...

:E

[6foottanker]

If it all goes t1ts up, I know one sponsored bursar who failed his final year but didn't tell the RAF until he was part way through IOT. Rather than kick him out or expel him for lying, they just altered his terms of service to reflect he wasn't a graduate entry any more! And now he flies fast pointy things. Jobz a goodun!

[raf_wannabe]

What do graduates get in comparison to non-graduate entrants in, say, pilot branch? The literature is confusing. Faster promotion? :rolleyes:

[Wader2]

What do graduates get in comparison to non-graduate entrants in, say, pilot branch? The literature is confusing. Faster promotion? :rolleyes:

Faster promotion? Not really. As best I can recall,

Given a non-graduate starting at the same time as the undergraduate starts university the non-graduate should have his wings and be a substantive fg off and near his first operational aircraft at the same time as the other becomes a graduand.

The graduate will then start at the same rank as the non-graduate has now reached but 3 years behind the drag curve as far as pay and expertise goes.

Yer pays yer money and yer makes yer choice

[teeteringhead]

Remember reading a 1369 (RAF Officers' Confidential Report) once on a newly promoted sqn ldr who (poor s*d) was posted to MoD on promotion. His 1st reporting officer commented on the "adventurous suits" he wore - clearly not pukka MoD pinstripes.

A subsequent very senior reporting officer (1* or 2*, a "spirited" officer IIRC), who had clearly read the academic details on the front page, finished his write up with:If we continue to recruit 2:2s in Environmental Science from L********r University we'll probably have to learn to live with the adventurous suits!
But the subject retired as a wg cdr, so must have got something (w)right! ;)

[TMJ]

Faster promotion? Not really. As best I can recall,

Given a non-graduate starting at the same time as the undergraduate starts university the non-graduate should have his wings and be a substantive fg off and near his first operational aircraft at the same time as the other becomes a graduand.

The graduate will then start at the same rank as the non-graduate has now reached but 3 years behind the drag curve as far as pay and expertise goes.

Yer pays yer money and yer makes yer choice

A basic entrant pilot or nav starts IOT as an officer cadet, gets promoted to APO on graduation, to Plt Off after a year, to Fg Off after another year and to FLt Lt after a further 3 1/2 years.

A graduate starts IOT as a Plt Off (for pay and sentiority purposes). After 6 months thy're promoted to Fg Off and 2 years later (1 year for most non-Scottish 4 year degrees) to Flt Lt.

To the best of my knowledge the class of degree, or its Honours status, matters not a jot for these purposes as long as OASC have accepted it. There's no mention of honours in the relevant AP (yes, I spent too long in IofR, so know exactly where this gen is) except for applicants for bursaries for the Eng and Trg branches. However, in the current cut-throat environment whether OASC would accept it or not is a moot point.

[raf_wannabe]

Given a non-graduate starting at the same time as the undergraduate starts university the non-graduate should have his wings and be a substantive fg off and near his first operational aircraft at the same time as the other becomes a graduand.

The graduate will then start at the same rank as the non-graduate has now reached but 3 years behind the drag curve as far as pay and expertise goes.

Okay. Thanks for that. But how would I, a 22 year old graduate, progress in comparison to a guy of 18 straight out of school starting the same day at IOT? I realise pay and promotion are not the be all and end all, and that ranks are probably given out at an individual level. It would just be useful to know whether I will be at an advantage or not (should I get in that is... OASC is 3rd October!).

I just want to be in a cockpit at the end of the day!

[Antelope]

Okay. Thanks for that. But how would I, a 22 year old graduate, progress in comparison to a guy of 18 straight out of school starting the same day at IOT? I realise pay and promotion are not the be all and end all, and that ranks are probably given out at an individual level. It would just be useful to know whether I will be at an advantage or not (should I get in that is... OASC is 3rd October!).
I just want to be in a cockpit at the end of the day!
Exactly as TMJ said, age is irrelevant:
A basic entrant pilot or nav starts IOT as an officer cadet, gets promoted to APO on graduation, to Plt Off after a year, to Fg Off after another year and to FLt Lt after a further 3 1/2 years.
A graduate starts IOT as a Plt Off (for pay and sentiority purposes). After 6 months thy're promoted to Fg Off and 2 years later (1 year for most non-Scottish 4 year degrees) to Flt Lt.
And as far as degrees go a first from Oxford/Cambridge will get you the same rank/pay as a pass from an ex poly (provided they're both 3 year courses).

Ant

[Spike2552]

I was wondering if anyone had any advice on how to improve my chances of joining the RAF as a pilot.

I am in my second year at college, and yes i have been to the AFCO, I am studying Maths Physics and Biology, I have 11 GCSES.
My fitness is good and i do a bit of mountaineering and climbing.
Any advice would be appreciated

[XL319]

My advice is that you have to stand out from the crowd....i guess a lot of people can pass the tests at Cranwell, but they want people who go above and beyond your "ordinary" guy. They will look at what you do in your spare time and what positions of authority you have held, which can range from Treasurer of your University/College sporting club to helping voluntary with a group such as mencap/ATC or other similar organisations. Use your imagination. They can afford to be choosy...so my advice is stand out from the others....remember tho there is a lot of guys in the same position and may well be doing exactly the same. Oh and team work is paramount!!!

[MattCollins]

First off, ignore all those :mad: er's who try put you down.... no names mentioned.

Obviously, passing the tests is a big thing... however also fairly obvious.

You need to gather (and learn) as much information on the RAF, NATO, EU, MoD etcetc that you can find.

You need to practice interviews, leadership and teamworking as much as possible. If you're generally quite quiet, try doing as much public speaking as possible to build your confidence.

The fitness test is difficult, but as you say you do quite a bit of exercise, it shouldn't be a problem, although you may find it useful to practice bleep tests, press ups and sit-ups.... wearing kit.

Practice some problem solving exercises as they will be useful both in the aptitude tests and in the team ex's.

Keep up to date with current affairs, such as uk and worldwide events, politics, that sort of thing, and form you own ideas about them. Don't be swayed by media (or interviewer) pressure!!

Learn about yourself! As in, memorise important dates (use calender dates, not "in year 10 I....") and be prepared to boast a bit about what you've done and what you thought about it. Also think of things you would like to do and why.

Join lots of clubs/societies/ATC?/etc to show you are keen and well organised and motivated.

However, the main thing is to be 100% certain that the RAF is for you, and that you are the best thing for the RAF. Make sure you have reasons!

Not much then!!:}

I wish you much good luck, and please don't be put off by certain people to ask here (or anywhere) for help!

Matt

[Mr C Hinecap]

Aye - good advice - but this but worried me:

The fitness test is difficult, but as you say you do quite a bit of exercise, it shouldn't be a problem, although you may find it useful to practice bleep tests, press ups and sit-ups.... wearing kit.


What sort of kit? :uhoh: You'll not be expected to do the Fitness Test naked, but please don't think you need to train wearing military kit.

[Mick Strigg]

As an outsider looking in........

Judging by the number of people that whinge and moan about being in the RAF in this forum, it appears that you should be steering well clear!

Whereas, the majority of dark-blue on this site have nothing but praise for the RN, so perhaps you should be looking there.

Not many AAC seem to use this site, so it is difficult to state an opinion of them. Try AARSE.

[Hirsutesme]

NO, dont try AARSE, you are still young and innocent. Go for the RAF, and good luck.

Remember you will be under observation pretty much at all times whilst at Cranwell, and act accordingly.

[side salad]

Think why you should get in instead of the many others who apply each year, think what makes you special, yes, blow your own trumpet just a little bit, but don't go OTT.

Good luck

[GlosMikeP]

Remember there are quotas for each role. if you are intent on pilot and won't accept any other role, be certain of it and don't give in to offers such as "You'd make a great navigator/AEO/engineer but you're only borderline pilot, so we'd like to offer you nav/AEO/eng".

Stick with the borderline pilot. I was conned in my youth in exactly this way.

[Pontius Navigator]

so we'd like to offer you nav/AEO/eng".

Lots more pilot slots than WSO. They don't offer if you don't ask. There may be exceptions but don't count on it.

[tabloz]

With regard to current affairs revision, the economist.com is a very useful site and the 'backgrounders' section provides useful information for virtually any major news issue. Great for your interview.

[airborne_artist]

You could also read up the good Falklands War pages on the RAF site. Quite a good review of a still-recent expeditionary war that re-taught loads of lessons to all three services.

[RobinXe]

With regards to GlosMikeP's point, I agree wholeheartedly. At the end of the interview phase, they ask you to confirm your choices, in order of preference. I had put down several, including WSO and Air Traffic, as well as pilot at the top, on advice from the AFCO. In the intervening period I had given it careful thought and decided that if I couldn't fly, then I didn't want to be forced to be around all the action for the remainder of my career. Thus, when asked to confirm my choices, I said I wanted pilot, nothing else. They seemed slightly taken aback at this, but I confirmed that it was my considered intention, and in the end, thats what I got!

I can also endorse the recommendation of The Econoist's online service. It does require a paid subscription, but its well worth it! The advice I was given was to prepare half a dozen stories in each of four categories, local and national for past months and past years. The Economist subscription allows you to track news stories all the way to their roots, so makes reseach for this a doddle. Remember, they want your opinions on the matters you are discussing, that you have formed yourself, and are able to defend with rational and balanced argument.

[Lukesdad]

All good info so far, my advice is to get in touch with 'GAPAN', they can arrange a private aptitude test at Cranwell to see if you can achieve the sort of scores the RAF are looking for. It used to be around £100, well worth it.

As far as OASC is concerned, it is 4 days long and it gets fairly quiet after day 2 when a lot get sent home.

[Olly O'Leg]

And as an add-on to Robin's last post, when considering the 6 news topics, try and find something slightly obscure, as well as something that is all over the news. At the time I went through OASC, there were some troubles in Cyprus that weren't exactly headline news - I mentioned that and that's where we went. The interviewers will have heard "Iraq/Afghanistan" for the previous 10 bods they've interviewed but if you come up with something slightly different, that may be a way to steer the interview.

Word of warning: Still know you're stuff on all of the subjects!!!

Best of luck :cool:

[GlosMikeP]

Thus, when asked to confirm my choices, I said I wanted pilot, nothing else. They seemed slightly taken aback at this, but I confirmed that it was my considered intention, and in the end, thats what I got!.
Good for you! I was conned twice through not knowing how the cogs meshed.

For my RAF scholarship I was told I was too tall for aircrew (believable being well over 6ft) but would make a fine engineer. So I accepted engineer. Shortly before university I was called back to OASC pending award of a Cadetship, and after only a short session was told I'd make a marvelous navigator but only an average pilot.

It was all tosh. What it came down to was on the first time there the pilot and nav lists were full, or close to it, and the engineer list well short. On the second pass, the engineer list was doing fine, the pilot list was doing OK but had space but the nav list was almost empty.

Stick to your guns chum. If you want pilot and pilot only, don't move from that position. But do, if you are prepared to compromise - for whatever reason: I could never say my career as a navigator was unacceptable, uninteresting or not satisfying. But I would have liked a shot at pilot and should have had one.

[alex_holbrook]

First of all guys, sincere apologies if this has already been covered, but I have googled this for what seems an eternity and have found no answer. So, I was wondering if sitting the GAPAN aptitude tests counts towards the two tries at the tests (I've already had one for the RN when I was 17). I ask this because I'm seriously considering doing them, but don't particularly want to fluff up my chances of becoming a military pilot by using up all my tries.
Cheers guys,
Al

[FCWhippingBoy]

Alex,

I've not really much idea what the GAPAN tests are, but a quick google tells me that they are the "Guild of Air Pilots and Air Navigators" tests, and are held at Cranwell (someone jump in and tell me if I'm wrong!)

If this is the case, when I took the Airmen Aircrew tests at OASC in 2002, I found that they also quoted my results from my 6th form scholarship tests (Pilot/Nav) from the early 90s.

When I queried this, they told me that the results were valid for 10 years, effectively meaning that if I had failed them on the subsequent attempt, the previous results would have stood (again someone correct me if I've been given duff gen!)

I'm not too sure about how many attempts at the tests you are allowed in what time frame, but something about 2 attempts rings a bell with me. The best advice I could offer is ask the AFCO or OASC themselves on the current policy.

Hope that is of some help, and apologies if I'm completely off the mark! Good luck whatever happens!

[scroggs]

Either talk to OASC or to GAPAN for the authoritative answer, but as their aptitude tests are something you pay for privately, I doubt that they count against your RAF/RN quota.

[Professor Plum]

As the GAPAN tests are the RAF pilot aptitude tests, I'm almost certain that they do count towards one of your two attempts.

Check with OASC or GAPAN though (as previously mentioned).

[Lukesdad]

Re the query regarding the private GAPAN aptitude tests counting as one of your RAF attempts. Yes, is the answer. Your name and address are kept on record and if you were to subsequently take the test with the RAF your score would be adjusted accordingly.

You should remember that the pilot aptitude test is only one of several different ones that you will take on your OASC visit, you will be tired and stressed rather than on a private GAPAN visit where you will be relaxed and rested. Having said that, GAPAN staff are mostly ex-RAF and a visit to Cranwell to take the test with them will give you a reliable indication as to your chances of becoming a military pliot.

Trust me, only the very best get in.

[Reversed Engineer]

Well hello!

Please allow me to introduce m'self, I'm Nick, I'm 29 and after ten years combination of sh*t jobs and uni I've gone and joined the RAF! (Insert "no change there then" here, RN types;) ).
Firstly a wee thanks to those of you who have put up info for others regarding OASC and officer selection in general, I've been watching from afar and it has been very useful. Even the bits that did not exactly make for easy reading when you know your career hangs on it! AFCO's are all very well but brute honesty is not their forte. I appreciate yours.

I'm old and blind so pilot was never going to happen, (although I'm pleased to say I did get all the aptitudes) so I'm being taken on to be a JEngo and starting Cranditz on the 7th of Jan. Cutting to the chase I have two questions for you:

1) Any tips for IOT? I've heard all that the AFCO has to say, now I want it from the guys that have been through it but aren't trying to sell careers.

2) I'm going to be responsible for fixing your aircraft. What do you want out of me and what are the shortcomings you want rid of from the JEngos you deal with? Feel free to make a list! Actually, do if you have to but just explain what you say if it's not obvious to a non (as yet) RAF person.

Before the RN folks lay into me I was in the RNR (Really Not Required) for five years so I am open to ribbing from all directions.:E Tupperware task force if you're interested (probably not).

Look forward to hearing from you!

Take care,

Nick. :ok:

[reddeathdrinker]

Watch out for your guys and gals, and stand up for them if need be.

Too many junior officers only out for themselves these days......

[RileyDove]

Nick - congratulations on getting in ! Not sure if the CT's will ever trust you to actually fix aircraft though! You might get involved in ticking some boxes and things like that ! Never really understood what a Jengo really did when we had a WO and Flt SGT who seemed to have been there and done it whilst
the Jengo was in nursery!

[GlosMikeP]

Get as fit as you can.

It will have changed over the years of course but I'll bet the North airfield is still used as a major running course on IOT (lots of it!). We used to run from the hut on the edge of the woods near the firing range, thorugh the woods and over the horse jumps, around the woods and field back to the hut in 15 minutes (2.5 miles or so). And that was in combat kit with boots.

You can't be too fit. If you are fit, life's a breeze and in fact damned good fun!

[ZH875]

Good luck with your career, but remember that as a JEngO, you most certainly are NOT [I'm] going to be responsible for fixing your aircraft.That's what the techies do.

You are responsible for ensuring that it is done in a safe and timely manner and in accordance with all the relevant JAPs etc.

As a long sufferer of some of the best and worst JEngOs around, my advice would be:

1. Make sure you get to know the people you command.
2. Always trust the Chiefs (for about 95% of the time)
3. If you ask "what is wrong", be prepared to listen to the answer.
4. Don't be afraid of visiting the techies at the coal face, see the problems first hand. Maybe even offer to help out and see how each task is done, and how long it takes, and why. This will help you estimate aircraft 'down time'.
5. If in doubt ASK, there are silly questions, and people may laugh, but you will get the answer you want, and people do respect those that ask, but if you waffle and bluster your way along, respect is quickly lost.
6. Act as a buffer between SEngo and the troops (Both ways).
7. Enjoy.

[Two's in]

You're actually going to be responsible for the people who fix the aircraft, not doing the job itself. May sound like semantics a this point, but save all of these replies, read them in 5 years time and say "Ooooh yesssss....., now I understand". Very well done on qualifying. My advice (it's free of course), be fiercely loyal to your subordinates, even if you don't fully understand why, but always try to see the big picture ie. never forget you all work for the big cheese somewhere. Your age and maturity are plus scores for seeing the arguments from the other side of the table. Your WO/SNCO's will run it for you, but as an Officer you are always responsible, no matter who it is who screws up, so always know what's going on in your area of responsibility.

Above all else - have fun. There are some fantastic facilities and perks available, so go off and enjoy them, you will get plenty of opportunity to donate your pound of flesh for Her Majesty, so just regard it as an advance on your account.

[Safeware]

To add to the 2 excellent preceding posts, and having been there, I'd say remember that there is nothing really *special* that sets you apart from the people you will be responsible for. Many will be as well, if not better qualified than you and those that aren't probably could be. They have merely chosen a different career path, so treat them as you would want to be treated yourself.

And congrats, it'll be hard fun.

sw

[Pontius Navigator]

Get as fit as you can.

It will have changed over the years of course but I'll bet the North airfield is still used as a major running course on IOT (lots of it!). We used to run from the hut on the edge of the woods near the firing range, thorugh the woods and over the horse jumps, around the woods and field back to the hut in 15 minutes (2.5 miles or so). And that was in combat kit with boots.

You can't be too fit. If you are fit, life's a breeze and in fact damned good fun!

No change there then. Still see pine poles moving round the airfield on their own <g>. Forget weekends. As well as get fit, expect to be able to show determination and grit and get fitter. No marks for effort if everything is effortless.

JEngOs can engineer. Not oilly rag stuff day in day out but inspired knowledge. One day I was doing a compass swing on a very old lady and the thing just would not swing. While I knew the rules I didn't know the tricks. Out comes a JEngO from the shed, out of interest or curiousity, to find how I was getting on. "Tried a Sperry swing?" He asked. "Wots one on them?"

Worked a treat. Had he not arrived it is quite likely the Inst Fitters would have spent hours trying the sam eas I had.

[Mr C Hinecap]

Do not worry about being an Engineering Officer yet. Really. Concentrate on getting yourself through IOT. Don't think past there. Put everything into getting through. I was 23 when I started IOT so was older than a few, but younger than a few - and the ratio of older has increased. Much of it isn't difficult to learn - but the quantity is high - especially to a non-military chap. Work on endurance fitness - you're going for some fairly long runs and you'll be tired before you start them from bulling the night before. It is an artificial environment but it has to be - it is training. Jump through their hoops and get to the other side - then worry about your Branch.
Good luck - best time of the year to start - weather is awful but gets better throughout your course.

[Aeronut]

Good luck with your career, but remember that as a JEngO, you most certainly are NOT That's what the techies do.

You are responsible for ensuring that it is done in a safe and timely manner and in accordance with all the relevant JAPs etc.

As a long sufferer of some of the best and worst JEngOs around, my advice would be:

2. Always trust the Chiefs (for about 95% of the time)
.


Hmmmm - theres some advice (probably from a chief!!)
that could get you in trouble! He's admitting there that 1 time in 20 its not wise to trust them - so make sure you monitor those occasions!

Also, don't rely on internet forums for significant advice!

All this guff about not being not being responsible, well yes you are. Many troops may not understand the role of the JEngO/SEngO but that doesn't matter really. They have their role but You ARE responsible for EVERYTHING on your shift. The engineering and the personnel.

[Pontius Navigator]

At IOT remember their aim is to pass you all out not to chop you. You are in a team and, although leadership is important, team work is the most important.

[FantomZorbin]

Nick,

Well done.

As said above concentrate on JEngO later - you've first got to get through Cranditz.

You will be taken to the very limit of your endurance just to show you where it is and what it's like - Blessed is he that knows his own limitations!*
Always remember that if the DI Staff see you giving 100% they will help you by a similar amount.

The very best of luck to you.:ok:

*PS - that includes patience some of the nif-naf can be mind blowing but don't take your eye off the main objective - to graduate.

[WhiteOvies]

Well done Nick,
Totally agree with all above. One thing - don't expect previous experience in RNR to help too much. The RAF works in a weird and sometimes wonderful way that is significantly different to the RN and mystified me when I was first exposed to it. Concentrate on one thing at a time -prioritise IOT, worry about engineering later.

As a JEngO you are the link and the buffer between the techies and everyone else, SEngO, Pilots, Navs and adminers. Remember the JEngO's office is a place for having a word with Aircrew as well as lineys. If they are being out of order in the Line Office invite them into the office for a chat. Better that they vent on you in private than on the Sgt in front of the SACs. If there is a problem you can then sort it out and not embarrass anyone.

Happy to download my (recent!) experience (RN and RAF) by PM rather than bore this thread for longer.

[possel]

As a retired Engineering Officer - well done. All the above is good advice - concentrate on IOT first - try to do it once not twice.

I'd just like to point out that you are going to be an "Engineering Officer". A JEngO is (usually) specifically the junior engineer in charge of aircraft at first line - I only did one such job out of seven tours in the RAF. There is every chance you will do other jobs like second line aircraft (if you're lucky) or OC GEF at a non-flying station (less lucky). But whatever you do it will only last for a couple of years or so before you move on, so give it your best regardless.

[Toddington Ted]

Well done and best of luck with IOT. I can only re-iterate the positive comments made by others. BTW are you intending to be an AS or CE Engineer? I only ask since the new Eng Off Foundation Trg Course (which has been running since 31 Jul 06) is effectively 2 separate courses, one for AS and the other for CE (which they call "the dark side" here for some reason).

[Stacker101]

Mate congrats on getting in. Once you come out as a JENGO be ready to go into an OC GD slot covering the posts Admin seem unable to, its crap I know but loads of Junior Eng types are in those roles at the moment and there seems no way out!! But use it to learn about the RAF and get PiS**d often as you can in the Mess, after all no SENGO will be doing your report so your bullet proof!!
Once there liase with supply as love them or hate them you will not get your bits unless you work as a team. Most importantly remember you are there as a Man Manager and 80% of your work will be looking after your men. Fail them and they will fail you and in the long run you will be the one that suffers, give them loyalty and it will be returned. Additionally remember your paid more and live in the Mess for a reason, your not their mate so dont try and be one, be a great boss. As for our aircrew brethren, try and keep them smiling and be firm with them when they treat your boys badly, not saying it happens loads but like all walks of life, of after a bad day they sometimes lash out and its often the poor old SAC waving them in that gets it!! Mostly, enjoy, go on exped, get involved in the mess... Its a giggle dude..:ok:

[Cornerstone958]

Hi Nick
Well done.
Having done a tour in a CO some years ago I was always in the :mad: for speaking the truth.
My advice would be to follow that of others concentrate on getting through IOT and don't forget to wear the Plastic Smile:O
My daughter did and she is now a Sqwabling Leader scribley

[buoy15]

You will be commisioned as a GD RAF Officer - primary
You will then be a JEngO - secondary
Your 1st posting could be Oi/c bicycle store Little Snoring - unlikely
Your immediate objective is to graduate - priority
If you always remember the following, "Task needs, Team needs, Individual needs - vital, essential, desirable" - you should be ok for the whole of your career
Best of luck - and enjoy!
Regards B15

[GlosMikeP]

Good advice B15...and to add a bit,

Remember the 3 strands to effective leadership are:
1. Lead by example
2. Lead by encouragement
3. Last and definitely least to be used, lead by admonition (bollockings are a turn-off and more attention to the above 2 reduces them vastly)

[cynicalint]

Congratulations! Try to get some duplicate uniform from any source, such as someone already in, or silvermans or quartermaster surplus stores - both available on the internet. you can then have a wardrobe constantly set up and ready for short or no notice inspections; you can live day to day from a kit bag if you have to! Empty shoe boxes are very useful for storing items in under your sink or in the bottom of the wardrobe and always look tidy. A strong smelling furniture polish ensures that you always have a room that smells'bulled'. take an Iron and ironing board - the queue for both is always long and you can never get one when you need it. Share out domestic tasks between the flight ie if someone is good at bulling shoes swap a pair of shoes with shirts to iron etc. Look at the advice given by the others in this thread and take a spare sense of hunour for the times when your first one runs out. Also look out for the first person to state "how would the flight commander like it if we went to inspect his home!" Enjoy the experience - it is more than worth it on the other side of graduation, whatever your branch!

[GlosMikeP]

[quote=cynicalint;2919485]Congratulations! Try to get some duplicate uniform from any source, such as someone already in, or silvermans or quartermaster surplus stores - both available on the internet. you can then have a wardrobe constantly set up and ready for short or no notice inspections; you can live day to day from a kit bag if you have to!quote]
Why didn't I think of that! Brilliant idea! Pity it's 30 years too late:D

Sidevalve was trying to sell his No 1 and as far as I know still has it. Try PM him and see if there's a size match.

[Pontius Navigator]

and a sleeping bag so you don't disturb the bedding.

Your car will be an asset as well as the DS do not inspect that.:}

[SRENNAPS]

Hmmmm - theres some advice (probably from a chief!!)
that could get you in trouble! He's admitting there that 1 time in 20 its not wise to trust them - so make sure you monitor those occasions!
Also, don't rely on internet forums for significant advice!
All this guff about not being not being responsible, well yes you are. Many troops may not understand the role of the JEngO/SEngO but that doesn't matter really. They have their role but You ARE responsible for EVERYTHING on your shift. The engineering and the personnel.
Aeronut
I take it you dont trust Chiefs!!!!! - But we are the salt of the earth.:rolleyes:
And 1 time in 20 not to trust them is pretty good odds. So who (in the line of work) do you trust more??? - Your Boss?????:E
Oh! and by the way how many JEngos do you know that have been sacked for a cock up on their shift?

[ZH875]

So when you ask "where is SAC Bloggs" and the chief replies "I sent him to get some milk" do you think:

a. The chief is lying and SAC Bloggs has slept in, I will sort him out.
b. The chief is lying, but he will sort SAC Bloggs out
or
C. The chief is telling the truth.

The chief may not be telling you the truth, but that is no reason not to trust him (or her).

But wait at least 15mins before going to get a coffee....:ok:

[Aeronut]

Aeronut
I take it you dont trust Chiefs!!!!! - But we are the salt of the earth.:rolleyes:
And 1 time in 20 not to trust them is pretty good odds. So who (in the line of work) do you trust more??? - Your Boss?????:E
Oh! and by the way how many JEngos do you know that have been sacked for a cock up on their shift?

I trust Chiefs when they've earnt it. I don't trust anyone blindly especially if airworthiness, safety or my even my reputation is involved.

I will admit to being suspicious of someone that says "trust me" as in ZH785's comment.

It was more a comment on the frequency of a 95% chance being 1 in 20. NOT very good odds in my book given the daily number of decisions.

I think I trust my boss and chiefs equally, both doing their job.

JENGOs I have known to be sacked for a cock up on their shift = 3.

Ironic that you ask that, whilst on this theme, since on 2 occasions they came a cropper because they overly trusted a certain rank who had led them up the garden path. I'll let you guess which rank.

In one of those cases the JEngO alone took the flak on behalf of the one that cocked up and was moved on which had significant career impact. In another case the JEngO was dragged down along with guilty party and in the third case the JEngO brought it on himself, which also cost him dearly.

I will agree with you that chiefs are the salt of the earth, but they are also under pressure and reliant on those under, above and all around them in an RAF that is creaking at the very seams. I mean not to insinuate anything untoward about any rank or trade, but this is a thread started by someone seeking advice and I object to any carte blanche "trust me - I'm a Chief" approach.

[SRENNAPS]

Aeronut - Thanks for reply. I will answer one at a time.
I agree - trust (and respect) is earned both ways.
Again I agree - any one who says "trust me" is normally a car salesman. (or a chief);)
So not good odds in your book. But at least you trust your Boss and Chiefs equally. Gets my vote.
Spooky, I have also know 3 JENGOS sacked. 1st got caught shagging another wife - he is now a Wing Cdr, 2nd for drink driving - he is now a Sqn Ldr and a third who got booted off the Sqn in the gulf after losing his reds and greens; he is now also a Sqn Ldr. Sorry but I dont know any that were sacked for a Techie of any rank screwing up. And "TRUST ME" I have seen some major cock ups.
I think we are in agreement that JEngos/Sengos/Chiefs and all SNCOs are important cogs in the wheel. But the wheel is turning and a few cogs seem to be missing!!!!!!!!!!!

[Aeronut]

I think we are in agreement

I agree:eek:

[Roadster280]

But wait at least 15mins before going to get a coffee....:ok:

ZH875 - Therein lies the mark of the man. Give the Chief the latitude his rank/experience attracts, and let Bloggs live or die by his Chief. Spot on. Bravo.

Of course if Bloggs still fails to appear (and likewise the milk) in 15 mins, then Bloggs deserves to be f***ed by the Chief. But don't try to f*** the Chief until it is solid that he maliciously lied. If he did, don't kowtow to his xxxx years of service. Make sure of your facts, but take him up on it.

It's just a game. The rules are not written, it takes a while to learn them, but once learned, a) they work b) they will see you to the grave and sadly c) they get upset once in a while by the will of the government of the day, irrespective of the forces' ethos. Much like the Constitution really.

Congratulations upon your enlistment/hopeful commissioning.

[Reversed Engineer]

Wow! Quite a response, I wasn't expecting this much in return so a big thank you to you all. All points noted and shall be duly acted upon. I really want to put evreything into this, as I said before I've endured a wealth of cr*ppy , dull jobs so I really want to make a go of this. Again thanks for your advice, it really is invaluable! :ok:

On a tangent and looking way ahead, what are the opportunities for recreational aviation in the RAF? I've been flying gliders for the past two years and I would like to continue (once IOT is out of the way of course). On top of this I want get my PPL sorted too. Are there avenues for learning to fly as a hobby within the Royal Air Force and how/where do I do it if I can? More questions I know but I really can't think of a better place to come to. Creep. Going to the AFCO usually results in getting a disinterested civvy who doesn't have a clue. Computer says no. I kid you not! :ugh:

Cheers chaps!

Nick.

[movadinkampa747]

of cr*ppy , dull jobs

Oh well you will be right at home as a JENGO then. Joke!!!!!

As for learning to fly you should check here RAFCA
http://www.procommercesolutions.co.uk/raffca/homepage/

Good Luck.

[Monty77]

Using your car as your main wardrobe is a top tip, keeping your room with the basic spartan-like er, basics.

Also, take your own ironing board and iron (keep them in your car). The block ones are crap and there's always a queue. Take a set of matching coat hangars for the shirts that once ironed and hung up are not touched again for the next six weeks. Once properly sorted, the bed and wardrobe are pieces of modern art - not to be disturbed! Some guys slept on the floor on a rollmat/sleeping bag which was stowed in the car prior to inspection.

Take a chinagraph pencil and plastic paper - I've seen many guys destroying bits of paper with a pencil in the pouring rain as they try to write down their instructions during 'their lead' (that's when you are given command of your little group to lead them on a task involving lashing pine poles together and transporting a large objct over shark-infested custard).

Don't clear dust at 0100. It will only settle overnight and you have to do it again just before inspection.

It is anal and you will question the pointlessness of some of it. Keep smiling and remember it's only for a few weeks. Don't be jack and willingness to help others wins many brownie points. If you've finished your room and your mate down the corridor has a bed looking like an elephant's nest, get down there and help him sort it out.

Have a great time. The sense of being in it together beats most jobs in civvy street.

[SirToppamHat]

buoy15 talked about

Team Needs
Task Needs
Individual Needs

Yes I agree, but the real key is to remember that the order of importance varies with the task. For example, in war the task may be so important that you are prepared to risk (or lose) lives. In peacetime this should never be acceptable. However, whenever you have a decision to make, if you consider the 3 factors properly, you will normally come up with the right answer. Just remember that the people who work for you may have a different perspective and assign different values, so don't be afraid of explaining your logic if you feel it would help, or asking advice from above and below.

STH

[Aeronut]

what are the opportunities for recreational aviation in the RAF? I've been flying gliders for the past two years and I would like to continue (once IOT is out of the way of course). On top of this I want get my PPL sorted too. Are there avenues for learning to fly as a hobby within the Royal Air Force and how/where do I do it if I can? .
Why wait till IOT is out of the way ? - at RAF Cranwell you are perfectly positioned for a spot of gliding or to make a start on that PPL.


I'm thinking more about the latter part of your IOT course and since you will be conducting your branch training (Engineer Specialist Training- EST) at Cranwell too you may as well get on with it or at least make contact for when you have a little more spare time.
Once into EST you will get the opportunity to state your preferences for first posting. Don't place too much hope on this but if you push for one with a flying club (See RAFFCA's website as linked to above) it would help you with your aim for a PPL. However, it all depends on what the desky has got to "shift" that week. All part of the excitement. Theres always someone that has to reach for the road atlas on posting day. Perhaps less so these days with fewer stations.


Whilst on the subject of first posting it is debatable whether it is worth plunging straight into a Squadron JEngO job for first tour or finding your feet in another type of Station post first. Definitley avoid anything to do with "aquisition" or Integrated Project Teams until much later. Unbeliveably, first tourists have been sent to Abbey Wood or Wyton deciding the finer points of support having never seen aircaft support for real. But above all get on a flying station first tour, whatever the job, whilst we still have some.

All the best, sounds like you will make the most of it.

Aeronut

PS. Oh! and make sure the padre (Devil Dodger) doesn't hear you blaspheming "My God - I've joined the RAF!" You'll have to talk to him!

[Reversed Engineer]

Cheers chaps, once again many thanks for some top advice! The RAFFCA link was very useful too, thankyou.

A little off topic but you've raised a smile with "Elephant's Nest" and "Devil Dodger"! Tres amusing! I'm a silly s*d for euphamisms like that, I dare say there are a multitude more...;)

[Aeronut]

Cheers chaps, once again many thanks for some top advice! The RAFFCA link was very useful too, thankyou.

A little off topic but you've raised a smile with "Elephant's Nest" and "Devil Dodger"! Tres amusing! I'm a silly s*d for euphamisms like that, I dare say there are a multitude more...;)


Just wait until you are being inspected or being drilled by the masterfully sarcastic RAF Regiment drill instructors.

[Top Right]

Reversed Engineer,

Concur with all previous advice, here are a few more snippets:

1. You will be criticised by directing staff (DS) - even if you do not agree with the criticism. Take it positively (bite your lip if necessary), be receptive and be "seen" to have addressed this issue the next time. Their job is to bring things to your attention - so be attentive.
2. Be decisive and be prepared to justify later your decision on a task, if things didn't go as well as envisaged. Do not be indecisive - if necessary, ask for opinions from your team so as to "gather the right info" before making the decision.
3. Try and be positive all the time - you will be knackered, a lot, and you won't feel like being positive - but if you can bring a smile to those around you at the low points, and the tone of your posts here suggest you can, this will help you and the team - but don't be flippant, that will just p:mad: off the DS.
4. At times you have to swallow your pride when not agreeing with something. Yes, there is a time and a place for speaking out, but you have to pick your moments very carefully to do this on OACTU. Swallow it, move on, and think about graduation in the ever decreasing number of weeks.
5. Be honest at all times - don't try and hide anything, you'll get found out. And be seen to be critical of yourself in debriefs - not negative, just those things you know you can do better, and then do it better next time.
6. Some tasks will require immediate urgency - ie task over team and people - just do it.

As you've already concluded, the theme listed here is "be seen to listen, learn, adapt and improve". That's what the training regime is there to embody into you. If you display an attitude that doesn't fit with the sequence, you will have a hard time.

[ARINC]

A few additions

1. Don't offer to drop another tool inside the bowels of an aircraft to try and replicate what happened to the first. (I kid you not)

2. FOD plods are social events to be enjoyed by all ranks.

3. Humour and common sense are prerequisites.

A little anecdote to illustrate the point....

I had one superb JENGO spend a cold winters evening in some god forsaken German forest with me and my oppo trying to fix a refuel snag on a Harrier. Yes you guessed it the aircraft was already full but the gauges were under reading even after cal. We eventually twigged and dipped the drop tank, the SENGO got covered in fuel. :D
Thereafter He'd always give me a cheery smile and threaten me with a dry cleaning bill. :=

[rjh04]

Hi,

When I finish Uni I want to join the RAF or possible become a navy pilot.

I want to make sure my mental skills are up to the aptitude tests, any suggestions for practicing?

I've seen lost of software being taked about on this forum but looks to me like it's aimed more at airline pilots rather than people looking to go into the forces. Any ideas?

Thanks

[chippy63]

Not sure if this link is helpful-
www.how2become.co.uk/royalairforce.htm
Edited- sorry, couldn't get the hyperlink thinggy to work. Re-edited- now it does seem to work!

[skaterboi]

Thus, when asked to confirm my choices, I said I wanted pilot, nothing else. They seemed slightly taken aback at this, but I confirmed that it was my considered intention, and in the end, thats what I got!

Yep, I did the same. They were also taken aback and asked if I was sure to which I said "Yes, thank you I am" but no more was said and thankfully I got in. Shame the bit about fast jets didn't come true though :rolleyes:
A good mate of mine, who also did the same, said he had added bandmaster to his choice of pilot. Apparantly he was asked if he could read music, to which he said no, and this allegedly went down really well! I personally wouldn't recommend this though :ok:

[Ste1337]

Hi,

I'm 16 and recently applied to join the RAF, in their medical it stated that hayfever may affect your medical exam and application if you have had hayfever within the last 4 years. I didnt remember having hayfever but we phoned up the doctors to check and just over 4 years ago i saw the doctor about hayfever.

Since it was more than 4 years ago i was still allowed to apply but had to fill an additional medical form out.

Does anybody within the RAF or maybe somebody who works at a recruit office know if this will have a major affect on my application or any affect what so ever? Hayfever no longer affects me in any way now but it used to when i was a small child.

Also any other tips for my interview would be great! I really want to get into the RAF and it would probably be my dream career to fly a jet fighter like the eurofighter typhoon.

Thanks,
Ste.

[SirToppamHat]

Ste

I am not a doctor or a medic of any kind.

However, I am serving. There are probably many posts about this on the Mil, Medical or Wannabee forums, have you tried a search on 'Hay Fever'?

I know many serving personnel who suffer from 'summer colds'; certainly it is possible to obtain medication for the condition once you are in the RAF. This type of thing is most likely to impact on your application if you are applying for pilot/WSO. My advice would be to play down the medical history - if you have officially been clear for 4 years and that meets the RAF requirement then fine - if you feel another summer cold coming on between now and your next medical, pop down to Boots and buy something off the shelf.

Medicals seem to be a bit variable, but I am given to understand that the intention is to get people who are as trouble free as they possible can be at the point of joining, so as to minimise the risk of their needing attention later on. There are probably people on this site who can quote chapter and para from the documents, and I hope they will be able to be more precise than I have been.

The other thing I would say, based on personal experience, is that Med Cats change and can go up or down as the rules are changed. I applied to the RAF for GD(Pilot)/(Nav)/FC the mid 80s, but having had asthma as a child was turned-down flat. Being short-sighted didn't help, but it was the asthma that made me 'Permanently Medically Unfit for all forms of service'. In the words of the Dr: "If we had a Branch or Trade for Bin Man in the RAF, you couldn't join it!" Nice, eh?

Four years later and with 2 sports degrees, I applied to the Army. As I could already fly, they encouraged me to apply for Army Air Corps as Pilot, and sent me to the RAF for a medical - despite my protestations (they were desperate). Eyesight again stopped me from getting through as aircrew, but I found that my 'childhood asthma' was something they now accepted you could 'grow out of', and it may not even have been asthma in the first place, such was the penchant of doctors in the 70s to diagnose any slight weaziness as asthma. Suddenly, I had an A4 G1 Z1 Med Cat, and joined the RAF in '89 as a Fighter Controller. You may find your brief dealings with your own dr are treated similarly, but you will help your own case by playing it down.

Good luck.

STH

[Min Decent Ht]

At OASC I declared hay fever as a teenager only, and that stopped me from being accepted as aircrew. I had to clean latines for 4 years before I could persuade the docs to let me fly. Then I had to have surgery.... its a long story.

Deny everything. Get summer colds like the rest of us. Although I hear the latest injection is effective.
When you get your brevet, start getting hay fever.

[H5N1]

The gospel according to the medical manual AP1269A is as follows

"aircrew candidates with a declared history of hayfever may be considered for selection if they have had no treatment and no symptoms in the four years preceeding their appearance before the selection medical board."

Summer colds from here on in then!

[Runaway Gun]

You don't have hayfever.

[Monty77]

I had exactly the same thing when I applied for a Flying Scholarship in the '80s and was declared 'temporarily unfit' - temporarily referring to the 4 year hay fever-free period. You haven't had hay fever since you were 10 years old alright? I later joined and did 18 years as a pilot. Good luck.
Another thing. During the interview at the Careers Information Office a kindly old Warrant Officer was obliged to ask me the question whether I had ever taken drugs. Being young and not very savvy I wanted to do the right thing and be honest. So I told him that yes, I had once had a go at marijuana at a party but didn't like it and had stuck to booze ever since. Bless him, he put down his pen, looked at me and said, "You seem like a fine young man and I believe the RAF can do with people like you. If you tell me you have taken drugs you will be rejected out of hand. I will now ask the question again. Have you ever taken drugs?". "No sir." A truly life-defining moment. He knew I wasn't a low-life druggy, just a young bloke trying to be honest. Discretion, when exercised correctly, reaps rewards. A maxim I have applied for a long time is, 'Will this matter in 5 year's time?'. If it will, give it your undivided attention.

[JAG3]

Just make sure you have sound evidence from your GP or maybe a specialist like I did with asthma that you don't have hayfever now and your are fully operational.

Good Luck:ok:

[05c4r]

I am 15 years old currently working towards my GCSE exams, when i finish high school i am going to go to a decent sixth form and from there apply to the RAF. I am phisically fit, have perfect vision and have no illness' but what i really want to find out is realistically what grades do i need to be aiming for, the raf careers website says 5 A* - C and 2 A levels; but surely with the amount of competition that cant be the case? I should to get 2 A*, 4 A, 3 B at GCSE but i aim to better that. What els can i do to improve my chances and make me better than the next guy?

[movadinkampa747]

I am 15 years old currently working towards my GCSE exams, when i finish high school i am going to go to a decent sixth form and from there apply to the RAF. I am phisically fit, have perfect vision and have no illness' but what i really want to find out is realistically what grades do i need to be aiming for, the raf careers website says 5 A* - C and 2 A levels; but surely with the amount of competition that cant be the case? I should to get 2 A*, 4 A, 3 B at GCSE but i aim to better that. What els can i do to improve my chances and make me better than the next guy?

English would be a start. Phisically is physically and els is else. You also need to work on your Grammar as it is terrible.
raf should also be in capitals, but apart from that you are doing just fine.:cool:

[G-EDDS]

Give the kid a break he's only 15!! If those are the grades you are predicted then good on you that’s more A's than I got. Make sure you choose something at sixth form that interests you, work hard at it and do well. The thing that will set you well apart from the competition is a high aptitude score at Cranwell, a sound knowledge of the RAF, Current Affairs and doing well in all the Interviews and Leadership tests. But remember you want to be a Officer first.:ok:

There is plenty of knowledge on this site and a lot of your questions will have been answered in the past so a good search of previous posts should yield some good info.:)

[jayteeto]

EDDS, correct, this has been done to death and there are many threads whinging about grammar. BUT, he asked the question: How can I be better than the next guy? Answer..... Sorting grammar and spelling would be a small start, first impressions actually count. You may be a potential future Chief of the Air Staff Harrier God who gives an bad first impression and make it through, OR, you could be borderline in selection and it could tip the balance in your favour.