TAA and the DC-9

[Stationair8]

Why did TAA continue to operate or the reasoning behind operating the DC-9 up until the pilots dispute?
Ansett had phased out their DC-9 operation by 1981, so TAA would have been competing agianst the new B737-200 and then 300 on certain routes.
Did TAA have plans to start a low cost airline with the DC-9 aircraft?

[Skystar320]

Did TAA have plans to start a low cost airline with the DC-9 aircraft?

Where did you pull that from?

[Skystar320]

During 1981, Ansett commenced the withdrawal of the DC-9 from its fleet as new Boeing 737-200s were delivered. The last route for Ansett's DC-9 was flown by VH-CZA on June 17 1982 from Launceston to Melbourne.

FYI

[Going Boeing]

I thought that TAA did the smart thing in keeping the DC9 in service until the B737-300 became available. Ansett (ie Abeles) bought the B737-200 as an interim aircraft until the B737-300 arrived. This was a very expensive process and the resale value of the -200s was significantly reduced once the high bypass turbo-fan equipped -300s started coming off the production line. TAA only had to introduce one type of aircraft and thus had lower "change over" costs. IMHO

[TechCons]

TAA also carried out a minor upgrade program on it's DC9's in order to compete with the 737-200's at Ansett. Cabin interior was refurbished, including addition of overhead bins in place of the old hat racks, minor avionic upgrades and an engine synch system .... which was a blessing for people sitting down the back!!
The DC9 was a great aircraft at TAA and served them well until the CFM powered 737's came along.

[maui]

Quite simple really. Firstly the DC 9 was a superior aircraft to it's competitor 737.200. Similar operating costs, lower purchase cost, and more passenger appeal.

Secondly TAA was not being run by people lining their pockets from every new airframe introduced.

M:ok:

[Buster Hyman]

I don't think Abeles did anything smart for Ansett. During his era, he made choices based on his business practice, all show & no substance.

[Wiley]

The 732 purchase allowed the Fat Man to pocket yet another hefty commission before pocketing yet another commission for the 733s.

On to less controversial matters: I don't think there'd be a single ex-TAA/Australian Airlines driver who went straight from the Diesel 9 to the 733 who wouldn't say it was a very steep learning curve, particularly since because of a major screwup by Jimmy Bowtie's bean counters, where line training hadn't been included in their plan to introduce the new type.

Someone who was directly involved will correct me if my memory's playing tricks on me, but I think each DC9 pilot completed only four sectors on the 733 before being cleared to the line - agreed upon by the AFAP and the AA pilots on the understanding that there would be a major payback on the part of the company when the next award was agreed upon.

That next award came up in a year all too familiar to many here - 1989... and to say the company did not reward their pilots for the way they (the pilots) helped the company get around the bean counters' screwup might be the understatement of all time.

[chimbu warrior]

Actually TAA had ceased to exist by 1989, having become "Australian Airlines" in 1986.

Additionally, Australian introduced the B737-300 before Ansett did.

Going Boeing, maui and Buster have all hit the nail on the head.

Ansett would probably have been better waiting for the B737-300 as well, but their fleet decisions were not necessarily made on purely commercial grounds. Perhaps the joint Chairman of TAA/Australian was unable to get a lunch date with (former US President) Jimmy Carter.

[D.Lamination]

confused:
Stationair 8,

Unless my memory is playing tricks - the DC-9 was fully withdrawn from service by Aug 89 (the dispute). The 733 was introduced in 86 & 87 with the relaunch as Australian Airlines.

Part of the steep learning curve referred to above was the fact that a 733 had much lower flap speeds and less powerfull speed brakes so the DC-9 drivers could no longer comfortably hold 300kts to 10 DME and still get in!:}.

Here's some Nostalgia for you
Photos: McDonnell Douglas DC-9-31 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Trans-Australia-Airlines/McDonnell-Douglas-DC-9-31/0241622/M/)

or

YouTube - TAA (Trans Australia Airlines) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OypcQDETRFU):

and

YouTube - TAA The Friendly Way 1960s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi0A2v3E8io&feature=related)

:cool:

[Dog One]

Those were the days, 45 mins Melb - Lauceston and a full meal served in business and economy!!

[oicur12]

"Unless my memory is playing tricks - the DC-9 was fully withdrawn from service by Aug 89"

I recall a TN DC9 being stuck in HBA during the dispute. The bored ground crew used it to practice pushbacks and towing skills around the apron all day long.

[maui]

The DC 9 was still in service up to "that date". It was however in the process of being withdrawn.

My last flight on the 9 and with Australian was HBA-LST-MEL on the 22nd of August "that year".
M

[Blue Carpet]

A bit off topic but I miss TAA/Australian Airlines, its sad we lost a big part of Australian aviation when they were taken over by Qantas. My father worked for TAA then Australian Airlines and I have fond memories of flying with them, and had my first jump seat ride in an Australian Airlines 737 into a stormy Brisbane Airport at night!

YouTube - Australian Airlines (Australian Television Ad) 1986 HD (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=8YH7kqLX8wE&feature=related)


http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/3/5/8/1014853.jpg

[tinpis]

Those were the days, 45 mins Melb - Lauceston and a full meal served in business and economy!!

A lot of Launie folks learned about knives and forks for the first time on those flights

[oicur12]

Now thats an airliner.

EAL DC10 dressed as CAL.

The good ol days.

[teresa green]

Ah, the DC9 one of the sexiest, female, bitchy, beautiful, Aircraft ever built. Any pilot who strapped her to his ar#e was privileged, she was a Pilots aircraft like the 707, and we loved her with a passion. I had the privilege of breaking a speed record with her from SYD to Willie in 8 mins 14 seconds with a 125 tail wind behind me, empty, with a F/O and one male C/C on a repostioning sector, asking the ATC for some clean air (he was aware what I was trying to achieve, you could in those days) and we flattened her. F111 eat your heart out. My understanding was the reason for keeping the DC9 instead of going over to the 737 (at that point) was basically about traffic. If you could not fill a 727 on a sector then replace with a pocket rocket. 100 seats against 150 made financial sense. I ended up blundering around the sky on the airbus, ( I had four little tackers to feed by then) I used to look with envy as a DC9 came off a arm, wishing, oh well. I shall go to bed tonight dreaming of a Col FD108. (I hope I have not offended any female pilot with my description of the DC9, if I have I did not mean to, it was simply in our dumb way, the way we saw her).

[PLovett]

What's that the other side of the airbridge? Looks something like the tail of a RAF VC10 but perhaps too small?:confused:

[ACMS]

Yep, it is an RAF VC-10, good spot. :ok:

[clearone]

I remember a 72 doing an FTI Rok-Bne in 29mins,everyone gets excited about 60mins these days!!

[tinpis]

Very sexy yer Miss Collins FD108 Mr Green :ok:

[teresa green]

Yer know Tinpis, I could never understand why QF did not use Miss Colins on the original 100/200 747s instead of that cheap crap that they bought from OS somewhere. Anybody know why??:confused:

[Wally Mk2]

This thread must be bringing tears to us oldies here. God how I miss real aviation, noise, style & brute manhood, not a shieler in sight:E
Ahhhh those where the days:)
'TG' tell us more of the good 'ole days please:ok: I enjoy yr posts but don't let the Mods know that will ya:E


Wmk2

[Blue Carpet]

Rear air stairs and all!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Adelaide_Airport_Tarmac_1967.jpg

http://klausenrussell.com/GTVgallery/aircraft/Airliners/index.php?resize=1&image=TAA%20DC9%20TJN%20Syd%201974_117.jpg&screenwidth=1280

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/6/2/3/1319326.jpg

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/5/3/6/1275635.jpg

[Desert Dingo]

Mmmmm. DC9s.....:)
Brings back memories of the days of parallel scheduling and the great Australian air race where we would taxy off blocks with the front stairs still retracting so as to get pole position for take off.

Remember the attempts on the world speed record from Sydney to Canberra?
If conditions were right you could get an intersection departure off rwy 16 next to the terminals then flat-chat out through the heads and down to Canberra for a straight in on rwy 17. I seem to remember having a personal best of 18 minutes flight time and 22 minutes block-to-block. None of this wimpy 250 knots below 10000' in those days!

It was the best handling pilot's aeroplane I ever had the pleasure of flying.

[teresa green]

Oh God, those photo's make my heart ache, could ever a aircraft bring tears to your eyes like that little girl. My missus says I should have married one and be done with it. Just jealous. The only engine failure I ever had on takeoff, was in one out of CBR on a wet and rainy friday nite, full of pollies going home to the wife or girlfriend, and she ingested some of her own tyre in the port donk. Just passed V1 I got over Lake George and had a quick chat with the F/O and we decided a quick run back in and back to the Hyatt for a drink was in order, did she let us down, no, she pulled like a trojan on one donk, and behaved like the lady she was, the pollies of course complained, I should have dumped the lot in Lake George, (but not enough water to do the job) and who would sacrifice such a lady for a bunch of pollies, ( I think Keating was there ) but I was immune to the bastards by then (if you came out of the flight deck he would look at you, like you were something found on the bottom of a shoe). Wet and miserable here on the GC this arvo, I don't know who I should cry over most the "pocket rocket" or the cricket. :{

[Stationair8]

The reason for the question, I was looking at a book on the DC-9 in a secondhand bookshop in Melbourne, and the book went through the development of the aircraft and then listed operators of the type. In the Australasian section it showed some photos of both Ansett and TAA aircraft including the one painted as Coralislander. In the text it mentioned that TAA had retained some DC-9's up until 1989, and planned to use them as apart of a low cost airline when derugulation started the following year on certain routes including Australia most popular tourist route.

Were Australian Airlines planning something similar to the Airlink operation that they started with National Jet, to run on the Gold Coast route out of Sydney and Melbourne?

Keep in mind that Australian Airlines also had an operation in Cairns called Australian Regional Link that operated DC-3, Fokker Friendships and Twin Otters in the late 1980's.

[Mr.Buzzy]

Hope you like these. :ok:

http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t329/alfiephotobucket/Ac100_700.jpg
http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t329/alfiephotobucket/CoralIslander.jpg
http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t329/alfiephotobucket/OvernightServicingLM.jpg
http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t329/alfiephotobucket/TAA-3SydAP.jpg
http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t329/alfiephotobucket/TAAB727VH-TBOG01-1979.jpg
http://i512.photobucket.com/albums/t329/alfiephotobucket/TAAB727VH-TBOL01-1979.jpg

bbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....whhhooooooshhhh

[Dog One]

Did the aircraft have any RTOW limitations out of Canberra?

[Buster Hyman]

That second last TN 722 is one sweet photo Buzzy!:ok:

What makes you think the DC-10-30 is ex EAL?:confused: (Oh how we had fun with those prayer wheels...!):E

[Mr.Buzzy]

Glad you like it Buster!
Those last two photos were taken from the first 747 built over Mt. Rainier in Washington State just prior to delivery. I was lucky to be aboard the ferry flight in 1978 to Australia, albeit as a pretty young tacker:ok:

[Stationair8]

Nice shot of the main apron at Essendon, wouldn't the local anti airport mob be complaining about noise if you had the F27, DC-9 and B727 operating in and out of their today.
Anyone know the number of passenger movements out of Essendon in the last year of operation?

[genex]

It is a fact that there were talks about using the Australian DC-9s on some sort of low-cost operation in the late 80's when deregulation (foreshadowed in 1987) was approaching. Never got to more than "what ifs" as far as I know.

That aside......when it entered TAA service I reckon it was a least as far ahead of anything else flying as the 777 and A380 are now....a sweet machine from either seat. And the elder brother MD-80 just as wonderful.

[Dogimed]

Ipec ran them into the 90s didnt they?

Dog

[teresa green]

Variable out of CBR, Dog One, depending on conditions. You young turks must wonder what the hell we are on about, with your maggots, and dugongs, and glass cockpits, but (and you are going to have trouble with this) we came off DC3s/4s/6s, twotters, fockers etc, and suddenly confronted with this beautiful little noisy beast, well, the scramble to get endorsed was like a bunch of schoolboys in a brothel. She would be a dinosaur to you blokes, but every so often a aircraft comes along that is for pilots, and she was one of them, like the B707. I saw one in Oshkosh in the 90's painted in shiny black, all over, belonging to some sheik, I could have happily died and gone to heaven then, and she did about three touch and goes, and I saw bloody tough old American airline pilots, and old combat pilots, trying to hide their emotions, I didn't bother. They say that the Mustang is the greatest Aircraft ever, followed by the Spitty, and the DC3, probably not much augument there, but jeez, she has to be in the first five, ask any pilot that has flown her, and watch his eyes glaze over and don't bother trying to move the smile from his face.

[dogcharlietree]

She was an absolute sports car and ATC knew that and would vector us around other aircraft as they knew her (and our) capabilities :ok:
Can never understand why the septics called it a diesel9 :confused:

http://eu.airliners.net/photo/IPEC-Air-Freight/McDonnell-Douglas-DC-9-33CF/0197659/M/Photos: McDonnell Douglas DC-9-33CF Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://eu.airliners.net/photo/IPEC-Air-Freight/McDonnell-Douglas-DC-9-33CF/0197659/M/)

You older codgers may like to look at this;
TAA MUSEUM 25 Year Club Home Page (http://www.taamuseum.org.au/)
They are about to do more work on it in the new year.

[Horatio Leafblower]

Old mate of mine was on the DC-9s. He died last year and when I ran into Jack Curtis at Pay's funeral, Jack said "Ah Bill! DId my line check on the DC-9..."

Old Bill loved the DC-9... and had cut his teeth on Catalinas during the war.

In the last 4 years I have lost a few WWII pilots close to me incl. a Lanc pilot, B-24 pilot, Spit driver and a couple of well known P-40 sqn leaders.

If you have a WWII driver nearby, spend a couple of hours with him over new year... not many left! :uhoh:

[Blue Carpet]

Thanks for sharing Mr Buzzy, those pictures were great! :O

[man on the ground]

Ipec ran them into the 90s didnt they?

yep, they sure did

She was an absolute sports car and ATC knew that and would vector us around other aircraft as they knew her (and our) capabilities

Ahhh, yep, we loved the '9' as well, let me assure you. 300 to 10, as someone has mentioned above; beautiful!

The world was simpler place then, when all there was to 'flow', were 727's, DC9's and the friendly's.

Love the photos guys, thanks. There is a good one somewhere, taken from ML TWR, of two 9's looking at each other on the same segment of twy A, after one of my old colleagues got it a tad wrong. Tugs please!

[Wiley]

The -9 was a - maybe THE - classic case of "if it looks good, it will fly well".

For this little black duck at least, a DC-9 cockpit at night, especilly with the floods set off and only the integral instrument lights on was about as near to orgasmic as I was ever likey to get without a very co-operative and naked young lady close at hand.

I went for the -9 to the 72, and (although I learned to love the 72) it was positively agricultural compared to a -9.

Ansett's first two -9's (CZA and B) had open overhead lockers not unlike a 1960's tour bus. I can't recall there being too many problems with pax carry on bags falling out in turbulence, but do recall that the open overhead lockers allowed for great sport on turnarounds, when one pilot would 'casually' get himself down the back to trap one hapless FA in between him and the other pilot at the front of the cabin. (FA? We called them hosties back then.) A quick flick and a hoist from the two pilots would land the hostie on her back in the overhead locker, generally within a minute or two of the pax boarding - and there was no getting out without help.

These days both pilots would be up on assault and sexual harrassment charges.

[ratpoison]

Keep the photo's cumming, I'm almost there!;)

[teresa green]

My memories are also of a great little italian LAME who loved her with a passion. First flight of the day out of MEL, you would get Guido on the end of the rope, speaking his own lingo, which consisted of English (sort of) Italian, and some sort of pidgeon. No pushback could commence without him inquiring about your (1) wife (2) bambinos, (3) telling you about his "Rosa" and numerous bambino's which seemed to increase yearly. Then you would get in some sort of jabba, a rundown of the state of the aircraft. "She hadda a bad day yesty Capitan, some silly bastardo bounced her, you treat her ok today she only a liddle girlie Ok Capitan?" Ok Capitan nbr ouno sounda ok, yabba dabba doo you canna starta nbr two" we loved the bloke. Few "Capitans" could resist if they had a new shiny F/O sitting beside them, letting the poor bugger have a chat with Guido. The bloke was already trying to look like he knew what he was doing, but to be confronted with this lingo, you could see the look of bewilderment, and then the sweat starting on the brow, as he realised he had not even left the arm, and he had not the faintest idea of what was going on and after about six "say agains" you put him out of his misery (after just about pis$ing yourself with laughter) and finally Guido always waved a set of Rosary Beads at you (thank God the Pax couldn't see him) and never sent you off without a God Bless you Capitan. I can never think about a 9 without thinking about him.

[blackburn]

Man on the Ground

The photo you mention of the two nines nose to nose, was taken from the old apron tower [SMC(A)] and was under glass in the apron tower as a reminder to the SMC(A) controllers of how not to do it!
Of course the apron tower got the blame as they had jurisdiction out to taxyway Tango from the apron but I suspect there may have been a lack of coordination between the two towers that was the basic cause.

Blackburn

[tasdevil.f27]

What a great thread.:ok:

[man on the ground]

The photo you mention of the two nines nose to nose, was taken from the old apron tower [SMC(A)] and was under glass in the apron tower as a reminder to the SMC(A) controllers of how not to do it!

Thanks mate, twas a couple of decades ago since I worked both, couldn't quite remember which tower it was in. Hope somebody saved it!

[Wally Mk2]

Keep 'em comin' "TG", best thead on PPRUNE this one & you take us back even if just for a few moments to the good 'ole days.:ok:



Wmk2

[Fliegenmong]

I know that this is a thread about 9er's but does anyone have that footage of the TAA advertisement that was shot from the tail of the '72' as it flew up the quensland coast?

My First Flying instructor was an ex AN 9'er Capt., used to tell me that if you had nothing to do between Canberra & Sydney............you'd forgotten something!:eek:

You know who you are......:ok:

[Flava Saver]

The Diesel Nine....ahhhh

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2387/2533099391_1ecac55d17.jpg

[Flava Saver]

Best be fair and put the Ansett one on too

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3031/2535422117_40faf9397b.jpg

[Wiley]

Coming off the 'maiden aunt'-like F27, for a new trainee FO, those first few line flights on the -9 were a bit like a callow youth meeting a fast and loose, very rakish woman of decidely loose morals for the very first time. It was said they reserved a seat for the trainee FO in row 20 (last row in Economy) for the first few sectors - for that was about how far behind the aircraft most of us were.

However, when you managed to keep up with her, the -9 became a real joy. Five sectors SY-CB-SY-CB-SY, resulting, often as not, in not much more than two hours to add to the log book, could be quite a workout. You knew you'd mastered the beast when both pilots managed to eat their breakfast - separately - on the same sector, with a 35 departure from CB and a straight in aproach (R/W 07) in to SY. (I only ever managed this once, and remember the captain's name to this day, and I have to admit, it involved scoffing my meal down at a very ungentlemanly rate! The captain handed the hostie his tray at about 5,000' on finals for 07 at Sydney.)

Someone's already mentioned the 'duopoly race' that went on daily between the AN and TN -9's virtually all over Australia, for the schedules were exactly the same almost everywhere. On more than one occasion, I recall sweating on getting that last door closed so we could start the second engine and so beat the opposition with the vital taxi call (first to make the call got to be first to the holding point) - only to hear the TN -9, with his front integral stairs still down, call for taxi clearance, be given it, and watch him move off the blocks with his stairs still at full stretch retracting, looking, for all the world like the stairs were a long arm out a window signalling the turn.

A bit of bragging now. Anyone else remember the speedbrake 'chatter' when you'd pulled off a really good landing? (For the uninitiated, the autospeedbrake handle would 'chatter', not quite deploying, as it was unable to decide whether you were on the ground or not, if you managed to really grease it on.) [A bit like the two breakfasts on one CB-SY sector, I may only have done that once too!!!:):):):)]

[dogcharlietree]

I've been trying for ages to get a photo of the 9's tailplane showing one elevator up and the other down. It was a very common sight, but unfortunately I never took a photo of it. :ugh:

Ditto the comments on this thread. No unpleasantries. A pleasure to read.

Short sectors - takeoff rwy 26 EN, right turn, land rwy 34 ML. :ok:

[dogcharlietree]

I know that this is a thread about 9er's but does anyone have that footage of the TAA advertisement that was shot from the tail of the '72' as it flew up the quensland coast?

Re my previous post about the TAA Museum, they advised that they have all the film shot from the tail and will make it available to the public next year. Can't wait.

[WHBM]

To get back to the original question, the Australian DC-9 fleets were built up, side-by-side, in the 1960s-70s era of the Two-Airline policy between TAA and Ansett. The DC-9 came in 1967 when the 737 was not around and other options, such as the One-Eleven, not what was required.

The rollover by Ansett from the DC-9 to the 737-200 was the result of steady Boeing sales pressure, they had more than one serious go at both carriers (you find an earlier attempt documented in Brogden's book on the Two-Airline policy). The difference was marginal, the two aircraft were fairly comparable, in the end one went for the trade-in and one didn't. You could probably draw up a long list of the advantages both of doing it and not doing it. Boeing passed the DC-9s on to a dealer who disposed of them quitequickly in the USA.

[genex]

There was talk....don't know if it ever happened....that the then hotshot marketing boss at AN (think it was Tom Dury or somesuch) was going to send a DC-9 rivet encased in glass around to all of AN's major clients to say "This is the last you'll ever see of a DC-9".

Interesting tho that the market surveys showed people did prefer the '9 with the 5 abreast seating and the very quiet premium section. That preference extended to the MD-80 which TAA was on the verge of buying (and which was in every way superior to the 737-300/400) but the TAA marketing folks were scared that the public would be told by AN...."its just a tarted up DC-9".

Apology...I did twice for a while each time betray my beloved '9 for the joys that will never come again of the 727. Sigh........

[Buster Hyman]

Ahh, for the old days when you had a bit of "T & A" flying around....

[clearone]

I remember a TN F27 Capt was doing his conversion on the 9 ..he arrived in a lather of sweat with a towel wrapped around his shoulders .."she`s too bloody fast for me" was his comment..I dont think he made it..this chap was quite a character ,someone may remember him ..he often told the story when he was flying a group around he would play a prank by tying two pieces of string to the steering yolk and proceed backwards through the cabin pretending he was controlling the aircraft!!

[tinpis]

Whats wrong with the 717 then?

Woulda thunk CFM was a better choice of engine, no "spool up rules" etc yet I never hear any kind words about it?

[JetRacer]

tinpis,

nothing is wrong with the 717! From the drivers who have gone onto the A320 or B737, they all say the 717 is a lot better than either of those 2 types.

And remember, the heritage comes from the -9! :ok:

[Led Zep]

Taxy behind a 717 and you'll see one elevator up, the other one down. :ok:



Taxy REAL close and you'll see how to remove the tailcone in case of an emergency!!! :}

[RENURPP]

I reckon the 717 is a DC9 for computer nerds :8. Flying the aircraft is secondary to pressing buttons and heaven forbid anyone thinking they could maintain 300kts to 10nm. :=

Not having flown a DC9 (unfortunately) I suspect that boeing have designed the character out of it :{.

[JetRacer]

I suspect that boeing have designed the character out of it


Umm, I think that was McDonnel Douglas Renurpp ... the designation was MD-95 before Boeing bought McDD out, renaming the MD-95 the B717.

Cant do 300kt to 10nm, but sure can to 15! :}:E:ok:

[Stationair8]

To get a slot on the DC-9 at TAA it would have been seniority based, but did you have go via the Fokker Friendship?

For an FO slot on the DC-9 what sought off experience would you have had in your logbook in the mid 1970's?

When TAA phased out the Fokker's in the early 1980's an instructor of mine went straight onto the DC-9, but another instructor got into Ansett started on the F27 Freighters.

After the war of 89, did any of Australian DC-9 crews get taken back on and retrained the B737 or B727?

[teresa green]

Wiley, if you used the SCAT (which you were not surposed to) you could grease her on like a cat pis$ing on glass everytime. I reckon more pilots got heartburn from trying to eat on the little bugger, then on anything else. You could not afford to take your eyes off her for five minutes, and when nature called it was answered in record speed, especially if a fairly new F/O was in the R/H seat. Used to love "the Great Australian Air Race" for anybody who was competitive by nature, to beat AN off the blocks, was for TN pilots a rite of passage. In fact it was considered a sport (and the sledging that went with it) the LAMES would be in it too. (comm'on skipper move it, he's closing his door!) (I found out much later that bets were laid!) What great times they were.

[rodchucker]

A bit off track, but humour me as a long time fan of Teresa's smarts, and now we have FUN as well.

I say we should launch a campaign for Teresa for next GG, and we start by setting up in a bar somewhere where WE buy all the beers and let him talk on endlessly about his great stories.

Keep em coming as you make my day, and somehow I think there are a lot yet to be told.

[Propstop]

As an ex TN LAME I have had many flights in the DC9 jumpseat. One evening going to CBR the captain was RK, (copilot NH) who said we will see how accurate the trim sheet setting was. It was a perfectly still evening and his hands hovered beside the pole on takeoff. At the correct speed the aircraft rotated and climbed away; I was quite impressed.
Every day now at work I am reminded how noisy the DC9 really is, as there are 3 or 4 operating here as passenger aircraft. They are DC9-30. A couple of months ago I nearly had to hitch a ride on one to get back to LAD.
I also have fond memories of Swissair MD-80 flights, usually seat 1A, from Zurich to Tripoli and return and the captain with an Aussie accent. They were nearly silent on takeoff, and looking back down the tube on rotation into bad weather, did they ever flex!!! (Grandpa's tales from the olden days Sonny)

[Wiley]

I recall one night (of course it was dark and stormy!) following... (as was all too often the case) the TN -9 into Townsville. (You can almost guarantee the b*** cheated on his taxi call, as noted above, out of Brissie.)
As he approached his TOPD, he called for descent and was given a "When ready, descend to F250" by ATC. He aknowledged, then, after a short pause, the frequency was blasted by a very loud recorded "Haooogah!! Haooogah! Dive! Dive! Dive!", followed immediately by a very calm "Tango Juliet Alpha, left FL330."

The toy of choice at the time for boys of all ages:) was the "laughing bag", which, when you pulled a string, had a maniacial cackle. Another variation had the sound of a U-Boat diving, which the TN captain used on this occasion. (ATC was highly amused, as were we.)

[PLovett]

More stories please. :ok: Just loving this thread as I have to admit to a very soft spot for the DC-9 family including the 717. ;)

Best time as a pax was in one, a Swissair DC 9-32 out of Linate (Milan) for Zurich. After all the pax had been loaded there was an annoucement from the cockpit (in at least 4 languages) that 2 pax had not shown and that everyone had to disembark and identify their luggage. This was 1974 and there had been a spate of terrorist attacks in Europe.

Everyone trooped off and identified their bags and I was one of the last to reboard. No seat allocation so I got lumbered with one right down the back between the engines. However, there was a benefit to that as the aisle seat was reserved for one of the hosties (its 1974 so to heck with the PC) and she was a stunner.

As one does we got to talking as the aircraft taxied out. She had just joined the company and was on European ops before being allowed on the intercontinental flights. After the takeoff she excused herself as she had to go to work. I asked her whether coffee was being served and she said, no as it was only a 20 minute flight, but would I like one. Yes please.

The look on the other passengers faces as she walked from the forward galley with one coffee pot, one cup and saucer and a smile. She could have had me for life. Good things happen on DC-9s'.:ok:

[tinpis]

Rode em lots never flew.
Recollections of Garuda/Merpati? 9 into Bali
On descent the condensation in the cabin ceiling would piss all over the front rows
Crew straight after TO cockpit door banging wide open would start sucking away on Garam Gudang clove ciggies while reading the Jakarta Post

[teresa green]

Clearone, I think you are refering to KR, and he did make it, still a excellent pilot, and gets around in a lovely little twin. Used to be known as "Argus" as in argustuffed, which was his attitude to anybody in management. K has a great sense of humour, and if my memory serves me right, he was known for bringing a pony back to the motel we were staying in, and dressing it up in a hosties uniform, and then leaving it in their room, (they were out having a few drinks) mass hysteria followed, as they walked thru the pony poo, and strangely enough we never went back there. (In fact I think we were thrown out of a few pubs over a period of time, I think some of our singalongs were too much for some.)

[Eastwest Loco]

TN used to operate a service LST OOL nonstop seasonally, which was particularly well populated at the start of the May school holidays.

The most amusing thing about full ships of 99 psgrs on this run was the traffic staff going through the cabin pre departure and handing every passenger a missing baggage form, as all was generally offloaded and sent via MEL.

We had one F28-4000 nonstop DPO OOL in early May, and no offloads even with 1000kgs of live crayfish in locker 5. Right on MBRW though, and we all watched her (EWD) leave.

Lasting memory of the TN DC9's was TJL on the round Aus run in the Coral Islander rig chucking a turbine and going U/S at PHE.TN556/557 I think - please correct me if I am wrong. Shambles Planning pulled an F27QC out of MEL base and chucked a P & W JT8D onto a pallet and sent it off cross country. It went via every straight stretch of hot mix with a refueller and when they got there they discovered they had sent a turbine that was U/S as well. Operation was duplicated and the F27's passed somewhere over Central Australia.

About a week after TJL reentered service, someone from Fawlty Towers Franklin St noticed that the stylised couple hand in hand on the fin had developed genitalia.

TJL was sent to the paint shop to cure the anhedral flap imbalance and nobody was ever nailed for it.

Loved the DC9 Super 30s as they were known after their refit at TN.

Best all

EWL

[18-Wheeler]

More stories please

I'm trying to convince my father to bash out some stuff on this - I think he went to the US to pick one up new from the factory and bring it back to Aus.

[hamgooster]

Genex mentioned AN's marketing of the demise of the DC9 and introduction of the 737.

Yes, they encased the DC9 rivets in clear polymer (I think it was) and gave them to clients and journos (including my father, who was a journo at the time) as paperweights. There was a blurb (with the new Ansett logo) about the rivets now being redundant or something with their conversion to an "all Boeing" fleet.

I recall that paperweight being on my desk at home (as a schoolboy) for years - think my dad might still have it.

As I remember it, none of the press could understand why Ansett carried on so much about a plane that didn't seem to do anything better than anything else in their fleet - I think they were far more interested in what the hosties
were wearing!

[Animalclub]

I can recall the TN DC9s having decals of various companies, such as Coca Cola, whilst being used on promotional trips or transport to/from conferences. A nice little earner for the company.
Does anyone have any photographs?

[genex]

A young Genex with a brand new drivers licence was driving the lovely Dot Macfarlane home from an evening church youth group function in North Essendon one evening in Essendon when we decided to visit Essendon Airport, maybe 2200 ish. It was apparent to Dot I fear that while I had designs on her (yes Genex is only human....but the designs remained way unfulfilled) my real interest in life was the thought of seeing a brand new DC-9. We walked thru the terminal, out the front (was that Bay 1?) opened the gate in the fence and walked up the stairs of a '9, all powered up. It was the coolest thing a young Genex had ever seen. I still remember the multi-coloured FD-108. Next time I saw something as wonderful was my first view of the 777 cockpit.

Within a year of the Essendon visit, I was privileged to sit on the flight deck on a DC-9 going into Adelaide as Reg (Ike) Eisenhauer checked Nev Grady. I've never been so spellbound. 5 years later flew them for 4 happy years as an F/O then another 11 years got my initial command on the '9. Final check at Avalon with Alan Coleman then MEL-BNE-TSV-CNS-BNE-SYD-OOL-SY over two days of the worst weather (SYD-OOL-SYD) I had ever seen for my line check with Keith Duncan.

TAA was responsible for much of the avionics spec of the DC-9-30. Remember the sheer capabilities of the TAA Engineering School and Technical Services then? Ross Brandy lives somewhere near me and I see him from time to time.....he was very instrumental in developing the '9 from a sheet of options to the real thing.

Someone else can relate what a stock-standard, SOP driven wonderful fleet and operation Eddie Clark, Don Winch and Bill Maloney etc built. What I learned then kept Genex alive in many foreign climes for many many years.

Sigh.........never again.

[Dog One]

Great thread keep the stories coming!

[Teal]

I have fond memories of many jumpseat flights in the DC-9s (and B727s) during my ATC training.

I don't know how accurate it is, but this link (http://www.vision.net.au/%7Eapaterson/aviation/B717_DC9.htm) provides a comparison of the DC-9 with the B717. (Some readers here will know the author)

[dogcharlietree]

Remember the sheer capabilities of the TAA Engineering School and Technical Services then?

There was a fantastic gentleman instructor on the ground school (can't remember his name).
Whenever you asked a question, the answer to which you did not need to know, he would always answer "and it works real fine". :ok:

[clearone]

I didn’t know that the 9 had two jump seats until I went to dispatch a full flight some years ago,to my surprise there were 4 on the flight deck ,a F/A on staff travel was sitting behind the Capt on his Nav bag !!!,you may remember this great character “FF” ,I think he was driving Tug boats on the Brisbane river last time I heard of him..




“The Aircraft is full and so is the Captain”

[Aye Ess]

Greetings,fellow fliers. I'm a 1st time poster,long time reader. I,too,was a DC9 pilot with Australian Airlines. For you youngens,we flew those excellent aeroplanes all over Australia with ADF,VOR & DME. No GPS in those days. If the Cooyong NDB was U/s,we had to use a lot of cross bearings to keep on track to Melbourne. The DME had no ground speed readout,so to know how fast we were going,we would see how far we went in 36seconds & the multiply by 10. Ahhh,the memories!!

[Capt Fathom]

see how far we went in 36seconds & the multiply by 10. Ahhh,the memories!!

Ahhh the memories ... multiply by 100. :E

A great thread!

[Aye Ess]

So sorry,yes,multiply by 100. I can fly a DC9,but a computer keyboard.....and what about the meals,all free & we got a choice of first class tucker & there was even vegetarian meals on board. Also occassionally,an enormous platter of cheese & strawberries.

[Jabawocky]

C'mon Fathom, take it easy, his first post and you jump on him! Prolly his memory is fading......... or he is not so good on the keyboard and missed the second '0'. Good pick up there tho!:}

They were from the days where keyboards and planes were only ever together when a typewriter was carried as freight!:ok:

J

[Buster Hyman]

An interesting read Teal, and whilst I'm sure he's a decent chap...perhaps he could put up a better photo of himself?;););)

[Aye Ess]

What about those tiny little rear view mirrors on the DC9. Mounted on top of the coaming,we could read the magnetic compass(printed backwards) at the rear & in the ceiling of the flight deck. The mirrors were also handy to check for spinach in the teeth after a meal.......yes,multiply by 100 for G/S.

[teresa green]

Young "feathers" is going ok Clearone, I think there is a bash at New Farm, Brissie next Oct, for all TAA folk and I think the carpet is going to be rolled out for Ansett people as well. Will advise all details when more is known.

[teresa green]

Aye Ess, welcome. When did you get time to pick your teeth on the little bug#er? I was flat out blowing my nose. Remember getting off absolutely stuffed? I used to sit reading a newspaper for 10,before starting for home, just to wind down a bit.

[RENURPP]

Aye ess,

the 717 still has those little mirrors.
they also have a little TV located behind the F/O with views of the cabin on them, so if you set the mirrors up properly you some times have a reasonable show. :ooh:

[chimbu]

And the satisfaction of computing the descent point in your head.

Three times the flight level (minus 0ne zero) plus 10 miles;
plus or minus one mile for every 10 kts of wind;
plus or minus one mile for weight deviation;
plus or minus a little for individual ATC whimsy;
plus or minus something for known non linear wind
minus 20 miles for 350 kt descent.

The joy of working out this exact spot then power off at TOD;
thrust levers at idle until spool up at 500' on final;
A good operator never touched the speedbrake.

FMC computed descent. Bah humbug.

[Aye Ess]

Oooh,it's all coming back to me now....remember the flight plan was folded & jammed in the behind the left hand cross bleed lever!! And those pull up checklists with the little shutters....where have the years gone??

[Aye Ess]

Yes,Chimbu, but the little laminated card for descent calculated it perfectly...except allowances for tail/headwind,elevation,weight,7 miles extra for the full circuit.....then change of runway,expect straight in....AAGGHH.

[clearone]

Thanks TG, good to hear young feathers is going ok, will look forward to the bash. Also you may enlighten me on another chap, I think his other profession was a QC but not sure, did he keep us on our toes, I remember once he threw a load sheet out at me through the Capt`s window and told me go and do it again, I can’t remember what I did wrong..He obviously had a good reason .

[tipsy2]

Don't forget the 'cross tie lockout'.

tipsy

[Aye Ess]

Cross Tie Lockout...now there's a term I haven't used in 19 years. Shortest sector was Proserpine to Mackay, 49nm. It was a constant blur of hands,bleating on the radio & non stop chatter of checklists...phwew!!

[Stationair8]

Did the DC-9 do the "centre" run Adelaide-Alice-Darwin or was that the domain of the B727.

Australian at one stage ran the DC-9 Perth-Port Headland-Darwin to annoy Ansett WA.

Did TAA or Australian use the DC-9 for night freight at one stage?

When TAA purchased the DC-9, were the endorsements done in the simulator? What sought of line training required for a new capatain coming off a Fokker Friendship?

[Teal]

Not forgetting Ansett's DC-9s, a nice pic of VH-CZA. Built in 1967 and still flying today as N946AX

http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo92/essendonfc/AnsettANADC-9.jpg

[Stationair8]

What routes did the DC-9 operate in the last year of operations with Australian?

[Aye Ess]

Stationair, in the last year DC9s mainly operated up the Qld coast Rocky,Mackay,Townsville,Cairns. Also Sydney,Melbourne, Launy, Hobart. By then the major routes & long distance had A300,B727 & B737 operating. Thinking back, there was a rumour(hmmm,in aviation,how unusual...not!!) that the DC9s were to be operated for a low cost holiday market airline owned by Australian,but after the Hawaiian Airlines B737 blew part of it's roof off,it was decided that maybe the 9s were a bit old & the idea was squashed.....maybe someone else can add to this.

[Chief galah]

Spent some time in the jump seat as a ATC trainee, sweating profusely as the flight attendant would lean across from behind to serve the coffees.

Start checklist....."Beacon light, Galley power, Ignition ground start and continuous......" from memory.

And of course "Roger Sir" who flew with Ansett. It was the only readback you could get from him. Can't remember the name.

Great times.

[sundaun]

Never flew em, but two things did empress. VH-TJJ (Edmund Kennedy) operated its first 495 sectors without one delay!!! The other was deadheading in the JS with Capt "Lurch" Mc Kenzie who converted direct from the left seat of the F27 to the DC9 thereby leapfrogging the F28. Ansett owned MMA, thus Ansett's anwer to the TAA "Coralislander" service around the top HAD to be crewed by MMA The DC9 was introduced on 13th April 67 and as of April 76 each airline had 12 in service.

[Dark Knight]

June ’70. Eight sessions of simulator thence first class Pan Am Boeing 707 Sydney – Nandi – Honolulu to train with Hawaiian Airlines.

Pan Am Boeing 707 first class; now this was the way to travel; a delightful small semi circular lounge at the left front of the aircraft opposite the galley where, after a sumptuous evening meal our group gathered playing cards, telling tall tales with the then young gorgeous Pan AM `hostess’s’ placing full bottles of scotch, gin, etc on the table, trays of fresh sandwiches and hors d’oeuvres on the galley serving ledge, “beer is in the galley, help yourselves”.

Somewhere behind the curtain (you mean there are seats and people back there?) were seated our wives enjoying delightful economy fare, gracious in their acceptance of being invited to accompany us for this 14 day sojourn. Forever mindful of their plight, we prevailed upon the Pan Am Hostess to take champagne back to ease their journey.

Aloha! Hawaii, Hawaiian Airlines provided excellent hospitality, facilities and training, first class hotel close to the beaches & shops, car provided for travel and sightseeing with much to see and do.

Five four hour training sorties where I was fortunate to share a Hawaiian Airlines instructor pilot by the name of Joe Tacker; best instructor pilot I have ever had; flew sailplanes and Hawaiian National Air Guard F105 Thunderchief (Mach 2 capable, nuclear armed) on his days off. Each sortie was planned to a different island in the Hawaiian Island chain with the training detail completed within 3:45 allowing 15 minutes for sightseeing around the island mainly done at 500 to 1500 feet. Well, sometimes we had to climb to, or above 500 feet plus!

Returning to Honolulu, the Island of Oahu, on the completion of the last flight to runway 08, clear for descent thence cleared to land by the tower at 10 DME however, Joe insisted we maintain 2500 feet and 210 kts clean??? With sight of the runway disappearing well & truly out of sight below the aircraft nose, Joe quietly said “You can land now”. Yeah, Right; mad scramble for landing gear, slats & flaps pushing the nose over to find the runway with a sink rate we had been repeatedly warned about during training on how to fly these new fangled jets. 400 feet, on glideslope, on bug, spooled up 40% N1 sweat pouring from a fevered brow; “Ah easy, piece of cake!’ Well it ain’t over just yet; 250 feet the right engine thrust lever is closed; thrust lever on the left engine increased to maintain speed, right engine failure identified, “Landing” with the sweat level increasing to flood proportions.

Debrief a quiet, simple “you can see what the aircraft can do, what you can do and (importantly) a demonstration of the aircraft and your limitations. Have fun.”

Leaving only the return Pan Am Boeing 707 flight home HNL – SYD direct, all up weight, lots of runway (no reduced thrust in them days) with a right turn after takeoff as soon as practical (as the sign at the start of take off roll says) meaning Rotate, roll into the turn and gear up; and we did!

27 sectors of line training with one G Hitchcock, a true gentleman and good driver thence loose on the line with a list of names representative of the sound, good and great pilots TAA was blessed with, all who contributed to what was without doubt one of the best, if not the best airline of its type in the world in its day.

October ’70 saw a few short months for hard, great fun flying come to a close when I transitioned to true love, the Boeing 727, but then, that’s another story.

DK

[teresa green]

Clearone, you could be thinking about "Slobbery Bob" (not his real name). He knocked my headset off one night on a DC3, because the engines were out of synch, I thought the bastard was asleep, and was far more interested in wondering of what possible chance I had meeting a loose woman in BNE after hours of chugging along from MEL direct BNE (with live eels as cargo) then worrying about the donks(other than the usual scanning) :eek:How wrong I was. Imagine smacking a young F/O in the head now, if you were not happy???? How times have changed. This bloke was a WW2 bomber command fellow, and had little time for any sort of what he could see as incomportence, and as he considered most F/O's were idiots, we all hated flying with him. He was a very bitter man, and has since passed on.

[C441]

Did the DC-9 do the "centre" run Adelaide-Alice-Darwin or was that the domain of the B727.

Was having lunch in the old Chartair hanger in Alice on a bloody hot day in probably '83 or '84, when a 9 got airborne accompanied by a massive boom as the right donk spat the dummy.

The old girl roared down to the south-east on one before doing a circuit back round onto 12 with its nose pointed skyward.

After landing and disembarking the punters we all went down and had a look. All that was left of the right engine was a cowl with a few bits of re-solidified metal inside.

I was also on sight in Groote circa 1980 when an Ansett 9 paid us an unexpected visit due to some dodgy weather in Gove. It sat there for a couple of days and each time I got back from Numbuls in my 210, I just dreamed a little more........

[Centaurus]

Not forgetting Ansett's DC-9s, a nice pic of VH-CZA. Built in 1967 and still flying today as N946AX


I wondered whatever happened to CZA. It's callsign is burned into my memory and not pleasantly. Back in 88 Air Nauru had a strike on. Although it was a foreign airline, the AFAP in comradely solidarity, decided to ban all Australian domestic (Ansett included) airliners from flying with 50 nm from any Air Nauru aircraft because at the time Air Nauru was pronounced by the AFAP leaders as "unsafe." In fact for 16 years Air Nauru was flown by Aussie pilots based in Melbourne - some even former DCA examiners including the first chief pilot. Unsafe it certainly was not.

You can just imagine the costs involved to the domestics when they could not fly (or taxi) within 50nm of the occasional incoming or outgoing Air Nauru 737 into Sydney or Melbourne and it was strange to be approaching for landing at Sydney with all these nice shiny domestic jets sitting at holding points and tarmacs waiting until Air Nauru sailed gracefully in to land. Such was the power of the unions in those days.

Approaching to land at Melbourne 34 on one of those gusty northerly days, this correspondent was amazed when, after ATC had cleared us to land, a highly indignant sounding very senior Ansett captain waiting to line up on 34 and very high up in the Federation, called ATC and said "Hey tower...this is Charlie Zulu Alpha...are you aware that our federation has an agreement with your lot to let us know when an Air Nauru aircraft is within 50 miles?' No, said the ATC, mystified about all this.

"Well be aware of it in future" said the very senior Ansett fed member in CZA.

That got right up my hairy nose -this crap about an industrial fight being aired for all to hear just as we were about to cross the fence with 25 gusting to 35 knots. Like I said, the cost and disruption to schedules to Australian Airlines and Ansett for the two or three weeks that the Federation "directive" was in force, must have been substantial. No names, no pack drill but I am sure CZA wouldn't mind me telling that true story. And please, no correspondence entered into...after all it was over 21 years ago.

[teresa green]

Directnospeed, that cracked me up. On Xmas day my little two yr old grandaughter got this toy, that was all bells and whistles, things that went in and out, dials, with a little propeller on it, all sorts of colours, and I quipped to my son (her father) a A330 driver, jeez, that looks like a 9 Sim, and there it is. Loved it.:D

[Flava Saver]

CZA now....

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3266/2551975234_f343684272.jpg

[Knumb Knuts]

DC9? What - with lovely lollies like the Goose and the Bowyang - now them's MEMORIES! The good old days.

[Blue Carpet]

Great stories everyone, very interesting reading how it happened back in the old days!

[genex]

Ah yes....nearly forgot the Pan Am trip to Hawaii in'74. What a nice little holiday and first flight on the 747, upstairs dining room and all.

Remember struggling down the ILS fighting the controls all the way at Honolulu on my first real DC-9 landing...and the instructor said 'let go of it son"...and it flew perfectly. Lesson # 1 in the aileron/spoiler/PIO problem. never sweated it again.

Coming back....in First Class on a Pan Am 707, breakfast of champagne and a hand-made omelette by a friendly grandmotherly Purser. As with the best of the First Class service on the 727....an era that will never come back.

And SYD-TSV in summer...."full overwing and offload the bags"...., with storms deluding the ADF, no real idea where we were, almost reduced to map reading and DR sometimes.

BTW....flew on one of Hawaiians last ever DC-8 services Sydney to Honolulu in 1990. Only 2 of us in First, 2 cabin attendants who were just wonderful looking after us tho I suspect were just possibly All-Black players on their days off. built like brick outhouses but wonderful smiles and charm. Just shows you don't need glamour to have a great trip.

[B772]

Centaurus. Interesting fact especially as the first 2 Ansett B737-200 pilots (Mal W and Ted W) did their line training with Air Nauru.

[grusome]

Now, the last thing on my mind would be to stir up old antipathies, but I recall the little nasty we in 34SQN happily inflicted on our airline brethren. Some may remember it. The DC9/727 fraternity would be busily racing each other southbound between SYD and MEL in the high twenties/low thirties, but usually sticking to SOPs wrt fuelflow. We had much pleasure in climbing underneath the air race to our best TAS altitude in the BAC1-11, around FL260, pushing it to the bells, and blocking out descent to all the guys above us because we could go in to about 80 DME for a fast let down. The pollies were in on the secret, and rather enjoyed the action. Our aim was minimum time enroute, but we must have given some of the TAA/ANSETT guys the sh1ts. At this remove, my apologies.

[Stationair8]

I printed of this thread and passed it on to a retired TAA sales manager, and his only comment was see, a real airline, with real planes and real people. In his day any delay over a minute was worthy of a kick up the backside. One interesting fact he mentioned was that in 1988, it cost TAA something like $69.00 to put the airfare into the system before the aircraft got airborne. He also made mention of the advanced rumour mill system that the airlines had in those days, right something in chalk on the inside of the cargo hold and watch it spread.

He also said to pass onto Eastwest Loco that TAA was a real airline, had better looking hosties, bigger airplanes, better sales reps that could drink more and sell more product and therefore make more dollars.

The only downside to his job was a certain miserable, grey headed, small penis equipped individual that was running the country who caused the war of 89 and then merged us into Qantas.

[Aye Ess]

As a matter of historical interest,TAA DC9 VH-TJJ was hijacked enroute Coolangatta to Brisbane in 1979. Landed Brisbane where negotiators tried reasoning with the hijacker. The very heroic crew overpowered the guy,who served a lengthy prison sentence.

[Buster Hyman]

Looking at that ANA DC-9, I didn't realise that they had small catering doors as well. I only thought it was a DC-10 thang... Obviously its a Douglas...thang!

(PS. Only ever SLF'd on a DC-9, but this is a terrific thread chaps!):ok:

[clunker]

http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq284/V2square/Picture0014-1-1-1.jpghttp://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq284/V2square/Picture0014-1-1-1.jpg

[Stationair8]

When TAA acquired Bush Pilots, didn't some of Bushies pilots get a slot on the DC-9 through their seniority number being based on their original start date with BPA?

[Aye Ess]

And, I, am one of those Bushies(Air Queensland) pilots who snuck in the back door of Australian Airlines. We eventually got tacked onto the bottom of the Australian seniority list. But I had been flying the Twin Otter for 6 years,then had a rapid rise to fame onto the DC9. Well,what a ride!! From an aeroplane with 2 moving parts at 165knots to a jet at three quarters the speed of sound!!! We would be at the destination while I was still looking for my seatbelt. (Well,not quite,but you get the drift)

[clunker]

http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq284/V2square/Picture0021.jpghttp://i456.photobucket.com/albums/qq284/V2square/Picture0021.jpg

[teresa green]

Grusome, we were more than aware of your little pranks, as we had a few RAAFIE CHAPPIES within our ranks, who on many occasions got us into the Officers Mess in DRW. There we learnt to sing some delightful little ditties, that made "Eskimo Nell" sound like something that the Sallies sang on Sundays. Also we learnt something that every Pilot should know regardless of who he flys for, that is to be able to balance a glass of beer on your head, whilst be able to spit at least 3 ft without spilling a drop. The bald blokes had a terrible time, and of course all this was at the taxpayers expense. We saw first hand how hard you blokes worked??!! The Boss of the base was DH, who regaled us with stories of "Tracy" I especially liked the story of his wife, who while hell and mayhem swirled around them, screamed at him "get that bloody DC3 of yours off my lounge chairs" his personal aircraft (that he used to use to go fishing off Smith Point) had gone straight thru the loungeroom windows. Did you join the ranks of "civvies"?

[Wiley]

The only downside to his job was a certain miserable, grey headed, small penis equipped individual that was running the country who caused the war of 89 and then merged us into Qantas.Says it all, doesn't it?

When the unspeakable bodgie goes to meet his Maker, (who he doesn't believe exists), I wonder if any newspaper (maybe Crikey?) will print some of the 'valedictories' that will be sent in to them from people such as us? Unlikely.

[RodH]

I recall a very unusual incident that happened on an Ansett DC 9 many moons ago in Cairns.
During pushback and start and it was proceedure to open the pneumatic xfeed after # 2 was started ( I think thats right ).
Very shortly after I did that it started to " rain " in the cockpit , slowly at first then it poured all over us and the pedestal radio gear.
Blankets were called for to try and protect the radio gear and the wide eyed looks from the hosties of it raining inside were quite interesting.
Push back was stopped and we were towd back in to the absolute disbelief of the engineers as to the reason why.
There was 2 inches or so of water on the cockpit floor and we were completely soaked.
The water then drained straight into the E&E comp all over the vital components.
The airport manager insisted we fly out as soon as the water was drained but when we pointed out the numerous instrument and radio failures due to water damage he quickly changed his request.
We were not going anyway until it was dried and checked out.
It turned out that the servicing personnel had filled the water tank the night before but had failed to notice that it took all of the water carts capacity and a very long time to fill the tank.
There is a one way check valve in the system that allows pneumatic air to pressurise the tank and this had failed allowing a reverse flow.
The service personnel had successfully filled the air conditioning pack with a lot of water and as soon as air was applied the filled pack drained into the cockpit.
Rather an unusal occurrance that's for sure.
I liked the DC9 but no where near as much as the 737 .
:):):)

[Stationair8]

"Soo did the big girl from Eenie Weenie make a reply on this proon thingy", goes the early morning phone call. If he has print it off old chap and I will think up something to outsmart him, chuckles to himself.

"Somebody liked your description of Mr R Hawke", I reply. Which he replies Hawke is a "lots of expletives used, tosser".

But on a more serious note, said gentlemen wanted to know when the DC-9's actually left Australia and who operated them, and what paint scheme they carried in the period of 1988/9?

He remembers Australian talking about and planning an airline with the DC-9 fleet to serve the Gold Coast tourist market with flights from Sydney, Melbourne, Hobart and Launceston. The pilots dispiute left Australian cash strapped and they shelved the idea and sold the airframes.

[easystar]

I was working on that nite on checkin at ool aport when the hijacker was checked in .The guy beside me checked him in on the last flt ool/bne on a friday nite. We all went home as it taxied and read about it the next day.It actually used runway 32 .P s to eastwest loco were you around ool at this time.

[B772]

WHBM. Do not forget the B737-200A capabilities that could not be matched by the DC9-32. MEL-PER and MEL-DRW nonstop for starters. Year round CNS-BNE and BNE-MEL without baggage off-loads off the old Eagle Farm runway.

AN operated the B737-200A CNS-MEL-CNS, MEL-HTI-MEL as well as ASP from MEL and SYD. The DC9-32 could do none of this. With 6 hours endurance and the same engines as the B727-200 the B737-200A had stacks of passenger appeal and was partly responsible for AN enjoying approx. 56% of the 2 airline market at one stage. With 112 seats it enjoyed a competitive advantage over the DC9-32.

[genex]

On the other hand....the 737 was ugly, slow and had hubcaps. Surely that offsets all the operational flexibility?

And to my knowledge....there was never a zip-top '9

[ACMS]

Funny man.......................:(

[ZEEBEE]

B737-200A had stacks of passenger appeal

The ONLY pax appeal the 737 (any of them) has is the exit door at the end of the flight.

Give me a 9, MD80 or 717 any day.

[WHBM]

Of the 24 Australian DC-9s, 12 each with TAA and Ansett, 7 appear to be still flying on into 2009, and surprisingly 6 of these, three from each original carrier, are with the same operator, ABX, in DHL colours, in the USA (photo above).

For those who remember the old ships, Ansett's VH-CZA, CZB and CZF are now N946AX, 947AX and 949AX respectvely. Meanwhile TAA's VH-TJM, TJN and TJS are now N906AX, 907AX nad 944AX. The odd seventh aircraft is Ansett's VH-CZC, now YV118T with Aserca in Venezuela.

DHL are giving up their package network in the USA from January 30th 2009, so it is likely that all this fleet will shortly be making their last flights, as there seems no further market for DC-9s. Unfortunately DHL seem to have decided to give up when oil was $150 a barrel, bad news for a DC-9 hauling small packages, now it's $40.

[Aye Ess]

From a ground handling point of view,the 9 had it all. Its own front & rear stairs plus the baggage lockers could be easily accessed from the ground without the need for specialised conveyer belts or lifts.

[Dog One]

Wasn't it necessary to reduce the tyre pressure on the -9's to operate PH - PD sectors, due to the ACN at Hedland. Did they have the range to carry PD + 60 with all seats occupied?

[grusome]

Teresa, that would have been Dave H, was it? If so, we weren't the best of mates for reasons not worth pursuing now. WRT the rest of your imaginative yarn, I know nothing! I do recall the instructors' reunions up Tamworth way where the real test was to drink a beer whilst hanging by your knees from the woolshed rafters, at the same time p.........
Hang on, I'll be ejected if I elaborate further.
Yes, I joined the civvy world in a manner of speaking - 25 years after the aforementioned pranks I was examiner B737, flying the line with AN. This was in the days when examiners were required to keep current so as to properly assess simulators.

[teresa green]

He is still going Gruesome, his undercarriage is shot, but his whisky arm is still working. He was recently at the bash for all Commanding Officers at Richmond recently. There is a bar named after him in DRW as you are probably aware. (I hope someone names a bar after me, when I go that bar in the sky).

[grusome]

Teresa, We're getting off topic here, but what bash at RIC? My invitation must have been lost in the mail!

[teresa green]

Big bash Grusome, they were pis$ed as parrots for three days. Late Nov/early Dec. You must have upset someone!

[Flava Saver]

It would be fantastic if at least one of the remaining nines that are airworthy be purchased, and brought to Oz, and be put back into its original livery for display...(even Longreach with its dry heat). Maybe a pipedream, but you never know.

[Eastwest Loco]

Hi Stationair

Please mention to your retired TN Sales Manager mate that this big girls blouse probably knew him, and was indeed born a TN airline brat, son of an Engines LAME who then became a Class 1 Accountant on the 4th floor of Fawlty Towers in Franklin St.

I started in Res in the same building in '75 and transferred to Traffic at Burnie/Wynyard and would have had a job for life if the chinless wonders in the above location had not decided to cut the F27 routes and swing in Eenie Weenie.

By then TN was a paper tiger on it's way to having to be handed to QF to survive. We used to love getting the Sales dudes through res and then through traffic on their "Management Trainee" runs. What a waste of time and effort that was, when the 2 Airline Agreement meant they were basically squabbling over 1% of market share. That 1% was worth rather a lot though in the scheme of things.

I was very sad to leave TN and was to some degree shunned by those who chose to keep the faith, but never regretted hanging my hat on EW. If the silver slimebag had not delayed deregulation to suit his greaseball mate and the F100's had been delivered it may have been a very different story.

If your mate can honestly say he was a contributing part of a loyal and hardworking workforce that took the airline he worked for from turboprop to jet and more than quadrupled its network and uplift, good on him. If he can't, then he was just another one of the passengers at TN. God knows, there were a lot of them, and some of the detrius is high up in QF these days.

Above all, the profusion of good and true airmen and good judges of aeroplanes did very well for TN through the 50's and 60's. The Government was pushing for them to take the HS Trident (for Gawd's sake - a booster turbine to get airborne?) and the BAC111, and the Sud Caravell was even in the mix, but common sense prevailed with a lot of fighting!! The DC9-30 - later the Super 30 with the Super 80 interior, and that happened all over with the A300, with pushes to grab the L1011 and DC-10. The Bowyang, the A300B4 and the DC9-30 were just the right fleet.

Best all

It is nice to know I can still raise the occasional eyebrow.

EWL

[zube]

Ah nostalgia.

300kts downwind at LT for runway 32L. Turn base with everything hanging out. Stable and spooled up by 600 ft AGL on final.

300kts at Glenfield for straight in on 07 at Sydney. Even the management pilots did it occasionally to impress a callow young first officer with the capabilities.

[Casper]

Straight-in 07 at SYD. A 50 / 50 approach - 50 Flap and 50 N1!

[WHBM]

WHBM. Do not forget the B737-200A capabilities that could not be matched by the DC9-32. MEL-PER and MEL-DRW nonstop for starters.....
I am aware of the technical advances of the 737, which were indeed matched by comparable developments of the DC-9-30 series by this time, up to the DC-9-34 (after all they shared the same engines), which latter I believe never came to Australia but enabled Spanish charter operators to do Canary Islands to Northern Europe with a maximum density charter load.

I was taking the broader view of the benefits of not having to use a 727 on these sectors, compared to the overall capital cost of replacing all the DC-9s with 737s, which was a very large investment. That's what I was considering to be marginal, which Ansett did and TAA didn't, the overall revenue benefit compared to the overall cost.

[D.Lamination]

:D:D
Great thread - Yes the 733 could go a lot further than the 9 but with no where near the style!

See the pic in post 119, the bottom of the overhead panel was the warning light cluster (forget the offical name - will never forget the "AC crosstie relay"). When the Master Caution or Warning came on you just needed to consult the warning display (grouped by system) and work your way through it, unlike the 733 where illumination of the master caution sent you neck craning around the panels to find which system had set it off.

This was an early version of EICAS/ECAM and typical of the 9's leading edge technology.

Some one asked in an earlier post about Port Headland, The 9 was used for CNS-GV-DRW(o'night)-PD-PER (o'night) Deadhead home to MEL in the 727 in First Class :ok::ok: or v.v. Ansett WA owned the West so we we just there to p*ss them off.

CNS-GV was fun, max fuel in the wet with GTE as Alternate, lost CNS VOR at 100 nm, backtrack on Kowanyama NDB over the Gulf until you picked up GV VOR. Quite strange sitting in an airliner with no supplemantary nav systems, flags on all your navaids and water as far as the eye can see. Then descent OCTA mixing with all the MAF C206's dodging CB's around GV. About 10 mins loiter time and if you didn't get in, then off to GTE where you were generally stuck - see earlier post.

We also had a procedure, as I recall, where the GPWS could be deactivated "in VMC" allowing a low crossing of the ridge and a tight right base for CNS15 when inbound from GV.:E

[Aye Ess]

Delamination, the light cluster was the "Annunciator Panel". Also,fellow DC9 drivers,remember the rudder trim knob? It had a small removeable panel in the centre which small objects & little notes could be hidden for any subsequent crew's amusement......professional pilots or overgrown schoolboys??

[sixtiesrelic]

Ah yes! I'd forgotten about leaving them there.
Did anyone find the notes I left behind the F.O's escape tape above the sliding window in the 737s.
I left one there for over a year with the dates I checked to see if it was there each time I flew in that aircraft... over twenty years ago now so I'm not sure of the rego.
What a great spot for a bit of smuggling. But what could you smuggle from Nadi or Vanuatu?

[A. Le Rhone]

How could you even compare that nasty 737 to the sportship DC9? Like comparing a Hyundai to an Aston Martin!

Here's what I'd call a classic video clip I have just found from 1972, hope the link works:

YouTube - ABC TV Promo 1972 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F58hRkcL78k)

[Mr.Buzzy]

Fantastic!!!! Great clip A. Le Rhone.

[Aye Ess]

Excellent video!! The pilots look soooo professional. Of course what they were really discussing in their huddle was superannuation,the next lot of bids due out or "hey,we'll be out of hours so we can't do the last flight,better tell ops"

[teresa green]

Hmm, one of them is ME! I had forgotten I was so good looking. The wife cracked up, stating "I have been married to you for so long, I had forgotten what I had married you for" It was because you were attractive, "what happened to you?" Thanks for nothing fella's.:(

[A. Le Rhone]

Probably been posted before but this quick one is of interest too.

YouTube - TAA The Friendly Way 1960s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi0A2v3E8io)

Hopefully no identifiable ugly buggers in this one!

[Eastwest Loco]

That did it A. Le Rhone.

I had a little hydraulic problem over the last one.

First aeroplane I ever flew on (on standby at MEB which meant standing at the rear airstairs for an empty count) was at age 8 on Juliett Alpha with Jimmy James at the helm. That was MEB SYD and ruined me for life. Met Captain James, and what a lovely gentleman he was.

They have never really improved on the DC9 or 727 family. Just ruined them by making them quiet,clean and flying them slower.

There is nothing at all like the crackle of a pair or 3 JT8D's converting JetA1 into noise and leaving a lovely black trail.

Thanks for that mate and best all.

EWL

[A. Le Rhone]

And speaking of Jimmy James, I believe he was the captain of this aircraft which was involved in the runway collision with the CPA DC8 on Jan 29th 1971. A lovely gentleman I'm told.

http://www.aussieairliners.org/b-727/vh-tja/4610.274.jpg

[A. Le Rhone]

VH-TJJ Douglas DC-9 (http://www.aussieairliners.org/dc-9/vh-tjj/1135.019.html)

VH-TJJ Douglas DC-9 (http://www.aussieairliners.org/dc-9/vh-tjj/1135.045.html)

VH-TJL Douglas DC-9 (http://www.aussieairliners.org/dc-9/vh-tjl/1135.057.html)

VH-TJN Douglas DC-9 (http://www.aussieairliners.org/dc-9/vh-tjn/1135.064.html)

[Eastwest Loco]

Yes Ale

Jimmy was indeed the pilot and TJA was the aeroplane. His internal report read I came over the hump on runway (XX) and there was the bloody Queen Mary in front of me. It was a filthy stormy night in SYD and all he could see was an outline and a row of lights. He was nowhere near V1 but somehow wrestled Julie Alpha into the air, wiped 8 feet off the fin of the DC8 and brought the girl safely home.

The court cases over compensation/insurance were still running 15 years plus down the track, but the most important thing is he got the girl and the punters back safely.

The damage bill was over $250,000 which is peanuts these days, and a whole lower half nose section was brought out from Renton and fitted to the girl.

She developed a foible after that which LAME's couldnt solve with the aircon system. To have the cockpit at a reasonable heat, the passenger compartment cooked - and the cockpit would be freezing to keep the punters comfy.

TJB was similar with a cockpit shudder they couldn't fix after it was hit with CAT on an ADL PER flight (I think) causing trailing edge damage.

I spent many hours on the flight deck of all the 6 T Jets with Ken Collins, generally with Wayne Rawlings and Moss Derby.

God I miss the big blue T and the men that flew her so proudly.

Best all

EWL

[Fliegenmong]

YouTube - Australian Airlines (Australian Television Ad) 1986 HD (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=8YH7kqLX8wE)

But I still cna't find that video shot from the tail of the 72!!!!!!!:8

[Wiley]

Wasn't Jimmy Staysharp JJ's FO in the 'meeting' with the Canuk 'Queen Mary'?


Edited to add I'm not holding my breath waiting for a flood of accolades in that department.

Edited also to add that I came over all hot and bothered when I saw the ABC promo. The button pushing on the Deisel 9 might have started the heavy breathing, but what really set me off was that 1970s Taa-Taa uniform. Ahhh... some very sweet memories I will NOT be sharing with my current dearly beloved!

[Stationair8]

Howdy East-West Loco, the retired sales manager says glad to see you are still in the business and when he visits the Apple Isle he will pay you a visit, to do a quality check on the Boags product!

When he worked in the Apple Isle in the mid 60's TAA operated a DC-3 then Beechcraft Queen Air out of Hobart on the intra state network, Fokkers into the coastal ports, the Lockheed Electra then Jets on the HB-LT-ML route and Fokkers on the freight run. He said TAA later passed the Fokker routes over to East-West. He can still remember helping load bags during the school holiday rush when short of staff, not to forget the odd special charter for the casino when it opened!

He has done a lot of travelling, but still reckons the DC-9 and B727 were the pick of the planes, and of course TAA was the best to fly with.

[Stationair8]

Ports that the DC-9 operated into:
Cairns,
Townseville,
Mackay,
Rockhampton,
Brisbane,
Sydney,
Canberra,
Melbourne Esendon,
Melbourne Tullamarine,
Launceston
Hobart,
Adelalaide,
Alice Springs
Darwin,
Port Headland,
Gove,
Groote,
Perth.

What about Newcastle Williamtown?

[Aye Ess]

Add to that list..Coolangatta & Proserpine. During the DC9 operating years,Newcastle/Williamtown was RAAF ops only. Pax from Newcastle had to fly ex Swansea with Aeropelican(DHC6) to Sydney for connections to mainline services.

[maui]

Aye Ess

Not quite correct. TAA operated the F27 up and down the coast (SYD and OOL) via NTL.

An F27 in NTL most nights, with accomodation in Raymond Terrace.

M

[Captain Sherm]

Also operated to Honiara, weekly I think.

Fascinating how well designed the '9 cockpit was. You look at the 777 cockpit and see the fingerprints of the DC-9 all over it.

Look at these things the '9 had and compare to the almost the same in the 777



The Master Caution and Master Warning system
The Annunciator Panel (as someone already said, an early EICAS and Electronic Check List system)
Fuel system almost identical-wing tanks and centre tank with higher pump outputs and a DC start pump for the APU
Split Bus electrical system with APU gen fully integrated and a cross-tie system
Early auto-throttle
Excellent F/D and A/P with coupled approach capability
APU that could run anytime, ground or air


A long way ahead of its time and not surprising that so little had to be done to it to build the MD-80

And as for the little cap on the rudder trim......flying the MD-80 in a Nordic country I was surprised to lift that cap and find a heavy gauge rubber band in there. On questioning the F/O, was told it was used to wrap around the Battery Sw to hold the booster pumps on the Fwd Aux tank in the Test position in cruise once the centre tank had started emptying so you could move the C of G back more rapidly than the auto system allowed, thereby getting a few more miles per gallon out of the fuel load and maybe getting home to Scandinavia non-stop rather than an expensive and time-wasting fuel stop. A great idea!

[Aye Ess]

Maui,indeed you are correct. Had completely forgotten that. Newcastle in those days was nothing like it is now.

[john_tullamarine]

Wasn't Jimmy Staysharp JJ's FO in the 'meeting' with the Canuk 'Queen Mary'?

Close ... Doug Spiers .. at the ripe old age of 28 ... see the DCA accident report (10Mb) (http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/1971/AAIR/pdf/197101202.pdf).

[maui]

Mini Me !!:*

[maui]

A great idea Sherm? That bypassed all the safety circuits, like pump overheat. So little we knew. (ref TWA).

M

[ACMS]

interesting reading.......................20 20 hindsight is a wonderful thing, but if he'd only just rotated a bit quicker and a bit more.......................


Now back to the topic of the thread, the DC-9.........very enjoyable read so far boys:ok: brings back a lot of good memories for me:ok:

[Wiley]

OK.. 'fess up time. How many people can recall (paxing, of course, never as operating crew:=) the mysterious momentary AC power loss immediatelly after takeoff that the Deisel 9 was prone to suffering?

It wasn't until I got onto the aircraft myself that I learned what caused these mysterious momentary blackouts.

I'll leave it to someone with a better recall of the after start/pre takeoff switching (or the failure to make said switching!) that caused this problem.

[maui]

Wiley

6000 hrs DC9 and MD 80 (andmaybe another 500 DH). Don't know WTF you are talking about.

M

[Captain Sherm]

Maui....didn't say it was a GOOD idea, just a great one.

And I never heard of the power loss after T/O thing.

But....I know a long time back to re-cycle the auto-throttle on the '9 (which was routine) we had to pull the power back to barely level flight thrust sometime during climb then put it back up to CLB thrust again. If you saw contrails off in the distance late in the day you could see the level off segment. A mod removed that need later.

[teresa green]

Le Rhone, that last video showed the devine Miss Jan H who is still beautiful, in every way. I have never enjoyed a forum as much as I have enjoyed this one, I thought I was the only one who turned into a dribbling idiot over the 9, so great to see age does not weary her, and she is enjoyed by other generations. Thanks for bringing back such great memories.:D

[Dog One]

The introduction of the 9 was delayed into TAA service due to the AFAP wanting the tech crew to include an FE as per the 727? I think Reg Ansett offered his drivers more money and got his aircraft introduced before TAA.

[B772]

Stationair8. TN operated the DC9 to Forrest one one occassion and I think AN operated the DC9 to Tennant Creek on one occassion.

[Fliegenmong]

Well remember standing airside as a 10 -11 yr old at OOL, watching 9er's and 72's start up and taxy off, always wondered what the opening at the base of the Vert Stab. on the 9er was for?? Thanks for the oportunity to have stood where I did all those years ago... different bloke but again, you know who you are, and thank you too naturally ........ :cool:

[Wiley]

Gawd, I was hoping someone would come up with the correct sequence that caused the momentary loss of electrics, which I thought was a well known trap for young players. It wasn’t a frequent occurrence, but certainly happened a number of times when I was paxing on the -9, and I was shown why it happened in the sim. during my conversion. (It was a well enough known trap that the checkie made a point showing it to us.) However, that was many years ago, and my memory could be totally off.

As I recall, it was the FO’s (or PNF’s?) failure to switch the main AC busses from APU to engine generators in his after start scan. I’ve probably got that utterly wrong – standing by for correction from people with better memories than mine. Did the dark occur when the APU was switched off on pushback after start, or, (as my faded memory has it), just after takeoff, when some PFM* box automatically kicked in after gear (or flaps?) were selected up? It was a classic ‘finger trouble’ pitfall, and maui, I doff my hat to you that in 6000 hours, you not only never fell for it, but flew with myriad FO’s who did not do so as well.

Edited to add that I think one of the many air-ground sensor squat switches on the MLG was the catalyst for this event.

* For its vintage, the -9 had quite a few PFM boxes. (PFM = Pure F.. Flaming Magic.)

[sixtiesrelic]

Wasn't electrical power change over but airconditioning pack switching to air mode as the gear switch turned off after lift off wasn't it?
I flew her last in March 1982 so my memory might be a little wrong.

[D.Lamination]

:p:p
On a lighter note: How did everyone find the crew environment?

Did we have 3 or 4 Hosties? I do remember that Hostie friendliness was proportional to distance from MEL and temperature such that DRW overnights were the best :E:E

I believe the F27 had similar properties.

Still see some of them when travelling around on QF 737s - mention a DC9 to a lady of a certain age and you will normally get a misty eyed nostaglic look. Those QF 737-400's have even nicked the regos TJJ to TJU.

[Wiley]

The true definition of "four on the floor" - and F27 crew on a Track Trip overnight.

[donderwolkje]

Wiley, It wasn't just the one overnight, usually four shared with the two B727crew (TAA/Ansett) plus MMA F-28 in Darwin that could reduce a grown man to tears.

[maui]

WILEY.

My response was to your enquiry about an electrical power loss "after takeoff".

Now, "after start" is a different matter. But I don't recall ever being caught by it.

It is my recollection that in the Blue Team, we started with gen switches on. At this point we would have the square blue APU pwr available light on along with the two round button blue lights on indicating APU gen supplying power. On spin up engine gennies would take over and the round blue button lights would go out as the power supply automatically transferred. Transfer was accompaied by a "clunk" but from memory there was no significant loss of lights etc. After start flows REQUIRED a check that the round APU supplying power lights be out BEFORE switching off the APU. Simple procedure which if followed would ensure no black surprise.:ugh:

We then had a procedure on the first flight of the day to check the AC Crosstie. This would entail switching off one gennie and observing the auto switch over and no lockout. Recollection is that this gave a momentary flicker of various lights and systems, twice. Once when you switched the gennie off and another when you switched it back on. Perhaps this is what you are referring to.;)

SHERM Sorry, I didn't catch your subtle inflection. Great idea till you look a bit deeper. Must confess I preferred the other method of getting the CofG aft. Closing off the forward toilets to get two or three 100+ kg nordics to stand around the aft dunnies waiting to drain the spuds.:ok:

Memories

Maui.

[Disco Stu]

B772

TN certainly had visit to Tennant when the Isa rwy was blocked by something u/s.

I remember clearly watching the temperature rising proportional to the decreasing chances of us getting off again.

I also was on duty in Op's Control when the 'men in boxes' happened at Rocky & Isa.

DS

[Animalclub]

Dog One
The introduction of the 9 was delayed into TAA service due to the AFAP wanting the tech crew to include an FE as per the 727? I think Reg Ansett offered his drivers more money and got his aircraft introduced before TAA.

I believe that Reg Ansett allowed an FE to travel on the DC9 even though from where he sat he could do nothing... thus avoiding grounding the aircraft.

[Stationair8]

Thanks for the u-tube bit via the ABC.

However noticed a number of problems,

1. Noticed the Captain when parking is beloved Holden in the staff car park for free , did not apply the steering wheel lock and used a key like device to lock the car.

2. Noticed Captain or FO did not possess the ASIC card.

3. Noticed the Captain went to a briefing office to do the flight planning via a briefing officer and met man, no PC in those days?

4. Noticed Captain and Fo walk around the aircraft without wearing high visibilty vest,

5. Noticed also that Captain smiled at the lovely FA, and probably muttered some sexist comment,

6. Captain and FO both engaged in conversation with the refueller. I suppose they said to the TWU member, "Bob's a silly old sausage and is a pillow biter, or it out turn to strike this Easter ours or ATC 's turn?"

7. No ATC delay for start, taxi must been a full house in ATC that day.

8. No proper crew briefing in the cockpit, like okay junior you can have the ugly FA and I will have the good looking one.


On a more serious note what was the seating capacity for TAA DC-9?
Did they have a first class or all configured economy?

What about the non-smoking and smoking section?

[Aye Ess]

The captain in those days was probably paid around $15000pa. DC9 seated 95. In the last few years of Australian Airlines DC9 ops,smoking was banned. Moveable barriers could be positioned for 1st class as were seat armrests. These could be reconfigured during a turnaround by ground staff.

[Aye Ess]

A post earlier today encouraged me to tell of a little known incidend involving TAA DC9s. So, Ppruners,gather around while Uncle Aye Ess tells you of...... "Men in Crates". In a land far away(Rockhampton,Qld), in a time long ago(Tues,Sept 21,1982). Flight TN454 had just arrived from Brisbane. The dilligent & hard working porters were busy unloading baggage,when one got the shock of his life when he saw an arm rapidly disappearing back into a wooden crate. Taa staff assisted a stowaway out of the box & called police. Inside the box was $200,000 in cash(about $1.5 mill today's money). Anyhoo,4 crated men had been consigned in 4 crates on 4 TAA A/c* to 4 destinations,Rocky,Mt Isa,Cairns & Townsville. Also on board those a/c were Reserve Bank bags containing $200,000 destined for Commonwealth Banks. The stowaways also had a quantity of telephone books in their boxes. So during flight they got out of their hidey holes,found the bank bags & swapped phone books for the loot!! The heist failed because the crate the Rocky guy was in was very cramped & hot & he had lifted the lid to get some air when the porter spotted him. The police were waiting at the other ports where they apprehended the other thieves. And,that, my little Ppruners is your bedtime story. *Please note: no TAA DC9s were harmed in the apprehension of the stowaways.

[Stationair8]

Did the DC-9 do the Mount Isa-Brisbane as well?

East West Loco can you recall the name of the large gentleman that was the TAA sales manger in Launceston in the 1980's?

When Ansett replaced their DC-9's with the B737-200 they would finished up with a bigger seating capacity, how did that work under the two-airline agreement?

When did TAA get their first B737-300?

[Eastwest Loco]

Stationair - I believe the 727s generally did BNE ISA DRW and back, but the DC9 may have done ISA only in later years - not sure on theat one.

The guy you are thinking of is Peter Doddy I think.

As far as I know Peter is still around. We had a TN reunion quite a few years ago and he was there and as much fun as ever.

Best regards

EWL

[Stationair8]

Top man East West Loco!

[Disco Stu]

Stationair

The first 733 arrived in 85 or 86 at the rebadging of TAA to Australian Airlines (the real one not the QF attempt).

TAG was the first 733 in country as TAF was being used by the FAA for certification etc of the 'glass cockpit' version of the 733.

DS

[Ken Borough]

Those QF 737-400's have even nicked the regos TJJ to TJU.

The implication of this statement is unfair. The regos for the 737's in question were 'nicked' by the same people who operated the DC9. Since the so-called merger (back-door takeover?), Qantas has not registered an aircraft in the VH-T** sequence.

Australian Airlines (the real one not the QF attempt).


I stand corrected but wasn't the 'force' behind AO, and its initial CEO, an old-timer from TN who was very closely involved with the identity change from TAA to Australian? Did he ever harbor ambitions of being CEO of Australian (TN)?

[Mr.Buzzy]

10 out of 10 for accuracy Disco Stu!

[tinpis]

Wiley, It wasn't just the one overnight, usually four shared with the two B727crew (TAA/Ansett) plus MMA F-28 in Darwin that could reduce a grown man to tears.

If only the walls in the old Travel Lodge could talk :E

[Disco Stu]

Ken Borough, I am unsure who was the 'force' behind AO as I had left the organisation by that time. I would also need a bit more of a clue as to the old timer you refer to. It is after all 20+ years since TAA became Australian.

A former TN DC9 driver is currently Safety Manager at Queer and Nasty. Better known for his Sartorial elegance.

[maui]

Disco.

It is my understanding that the "well dressed" "gentleman":mad:. Has in fact met his match with the appointment of Mr Joyce.

I am led to believe that he is currently enjoying the confines of much more appropriate corporate accomodation, and that whilst surveying his very empty intray, is also comtemplating his bleak future.

Pure gossip of course :ok:

Maui

[over_centre]

Fantastic topic, folks! :ok:

Anyone able to rattle the memory banks for contributions to similar "TAA and the F-27" or "TAA and the Viscount" threads??

Gotta love the 'panoramic windows' and the noise of those Darts. ;)

[Fliegenmong]

I have here on my wall next to my 'ppruning' 'puter a TAA Map listing the TAA fleet at the time.......MK2 Electras, Super Viscounts (700 & 800 series), Friendships, DC6Bs, DC4s, DC3s, Bristol Freighter MK31, De Havilland Otters, Catalina Flying boat, and a Cessna 182D (PNG Ops?), a Bell 47J-2, and Hellier UH-12E Helos.,

The only date I can find on the Map is for population as at 30/06/1961 -
10 508 191..........

a truly lovely old map, outlining explorers routes and key industries etc etc, if I knew how to post a picture...........not too sure where it came from..........but it has some history...and it pre dates Fliegs :}:8:D

[A. Le Rhone]

There is an interesting TAA Wikipedia entry, including a list of all of the aircraft flown by TAA and some links to great pictures at:

Trans Australia Airlines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_Australia_Airlines)

http://aussieairliners.org/viscount/vh-tvl/0129.184l.jpg

[teresa green]

AYE ESS, dug out a old payslip, it was 15,400 pa for a line Captain.

[teresa green]

Here is a bit of a memory contest for you. Can you remember all their names. I remember "Trident".

[A. Le Rhone]

Sorry - the following images are off the subject of DC9's (but responses to the posts above).

Q: I was able to post those TAA clips from You Tube but does anybody have access to that great series of ads with the camera mounted in the 727 tail? That was very innovative at the time (not so now with micro-technology cameras) and I recall a great low-level flypast of the Gold Coast - it would be great to see just how much that skyline has changed. However those ads seemed to have disappeared which is a shame, they would make a great addition to You Tube. Surely somebody at Qantas would have them on file?

Anyhow, still off the subject!

Fond memories:
http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/pictures/0/0/2/im/pi002559.jpg

Some lesser known types:
http://www.edcoatescollection.com/ac1/austa/TAAFleet/VH-TAZ1.jpg
http://www.edcoatescollection.com/ac1/austa/TAAFleet/VH-THG1.jpg
http://www.edcoatescollection.com/ac1/austa/TAAFleet/VH-TGC.jpg
Apologies for thread drift....

[maui]

A. Le Rhone

If anyone knows Sean Mc Namara ex publicity person for TAA/Australian, he may have knowledge of the whereabouts of a copy of that ad.

M

[A. Le Rhone]

http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/pictoria/a/4/9/im/a49576.jpg

[Animalclub]

Capt Larry Blackman is still remembered (unless the name has been changed) on a DC3 mounted outside Air Niugini's head office at Jacksons POM.

[teresa green]

Good God, where did you get that picture of "Shagg" a great bloke, pilot, and a great mate. He died some years ago of Motor Nurome Disease, followed by wife Shirley a few years later. We were in New Guinea together for 8 years, and I don't think my liver ever recovered from it. Still miss him and Shirley. Memories keep coming.

[Fliegenmong]

A. Le Rhone.......They're the ones I'm talking about!, I'd love to see them again!!:ok:

[Captain Sherm]

Somewhere on PPrune not long ago, someone said something like "call up an ex WW2 pilot today" or somesuch.

I have long reflected on how much the Sherm career, such as it has been, rested on the ex WW2 pilots who started TAA. Frank Ball in particular, who gave me many opportunities, beginning with my final interview to join the airline. But there were many others in his footsteps. And at John Hickey's funeral the other day I finally did take the step of going up to Eddy Clark, the founding Flight Captain of TAA's DC-9 fleet, and telling him what a difference the DC-9 training given me by TAA in 1974 (and thereafter) had made to my life. The rigorous training in cockpit management and applied airmanship I received in that world, and again in my DC-9 command training years later....have been with me ever since, in many other skies and worlds and airlines.

The lessons he and his peers taught then were, like the '9 itself, world standard. Clark, Winch, Maloney later followed by the likes of Lushey, Knappstein and Guggenheimer, were simply a different breed. Look hard today and you might find pale shadows of them, but their like has largely gone from the skies now and we are the sadder for it.

Nevertheless, many of these guys are still around and I urge older readers to do something tomorrow to pay some homage in some way to those who built what we now enjoy. And to younger folk who think history can teach nothing......study history a bit til you realize the truth.

[WHBM]

Just in case you want some more nostalgia, you may not be aware of this website which has full high-resolution scans of a range of old timetables (every single page, not just the front cover) from the past.

There's TAA from 1951, '56,'63 and '65, along with a range of others like Guinea or MacRobertson-Miller that are long-forgotten.

Airline Timetable Images - List of Complete Timetables (http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/complete.htm#Aus)

Just click on the date (not the airline name), then click on each page in turn, and you can do a Save Picture As and then review them on your PC whenever. Takes a few minutes to get the whole timetable.

[forget]

teresa, from a much earlier post I saw one in Oshkosh in the 90's painted in shiny black, all over, belonging to some sheik,

Hugh Hefner was there first. :) 1970's

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b270/cumpas/playboy.jpg

[HANOI]

Larry Blackman.

In the early 1970's I lived next door to Larry in 9th Street , Lae. It was not unusual to be woken up at 0700 on a Sunday morning with a knocking on the bedroom wall and a voice through the louvres saying " Care for a Fourex , shaggs ?".
In the house on the other side was Mace Denheld of the Wynyard approach fame.

[megle2]

Infamous for the " Wynyard approach fame ".
Now I bet the young guns wonder what you mean!!

[Eastwest Loco]

The main street of Wynyard has not been the same since. Remember it well.

Best all

EWL

[Disco Stu]

I remember one at Roma with minimum fuel as well.

[Capt Fathom]

Interesting reading Wynyard Incident (http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/1973/AAIR/pdf/197303681.pdf)

[teresa green]

Mace died of a horrible form of cancer in country Vic, called to see him and was horrified at his suffering, am well aware of his problems within TAA, but who are we to judge. Those other great TAA pilots have to include Peter Kausman, Gordon Close, both WW2 bomber command pilots, the late great Larry Blackman who took part in the Berlin air lift, and talking about John Hickey, He was amazing how he got you to volunteer for a job, when you had no idea that you had! I well remember going into Faulty Towers one day at his request, thinking I must have done something terrible but could not think what it was, only for him to say, see that volunteer position on the Mineral Deposits DC3 over there, well it would look good for you if you considered it, I looked at it and thought no way,handed it to him and he signed it application filled! Off to Boulia I went, and on to VH -MI bloody M (as she was fondly known) for the next three years! As it turned out I enjoyed it very much, as we had a great bunch of geo blokes with us, and flew at 500 ft most of the time and though we were supposed to fly in uniform, we flew in only shorts, army boots and a cap, (except when the TAA bosses turned up) and used to drink up to 4 litres of waters a day. I won't even mention the mountain of beer cans that grew steadly larger at our various camps, which included Gordon Downs, Mount Hope, and the Cape, it was hard to go back to line flying after that, I don't think the young pilots of today would be impressed if it happened to them, and of course it wouldn't but I have no regrets, in fact It was great flying. (and TAA never knew we used the aircraft to go fishing!

[Stationair8]

Did the initial DC-9 Captain's and FO's come off the Electra or DC-6?

How long did TAA operate the Queenair's for?

[Dog One]

I think from memory, the Queenairs operated for three - four years in Tassie, but longer up north. They were operated single pilot and did the intrastate runs in Tassie. I think the operation started in 1963 and finished about 1967. The charter operators thought it was great, every time it went u/s, they got charters. Normally, you would see a gaggle of 206's, 182's and 172's criss crossing Tasmania with TAA passengers

[Capt Fathom]

The TAA Queenairs up north were based in Mackay.

Used for Brampton Island and Shute Harbour.

(Ansett had a Piaggio P166 based there before that)

[B772]

Stationair8. Ansett operated the DC9 on a ad-hoc basis BNE-ISA-BNE usually usung Flight Numbers 1692/1691. Most departures from ISA were at approx. 0400Lt to enable a resonable payload to be uplifted. From memory the main payload consideration was the possibility of an engine failure after lift off.

FYI The Ansett F28 also operated BNE-ISA-BNE for a brief period.

[Dog One]

Come on chaps, dig deeper, keep the stories flowing.

[Aye Ess]

Hmmm,OK,fellow DC9 pilots. The added advantage of integral forward stairs was the way we pilots could support our weight on our hands & slide from aircraft to ground in a split second,just sliding down the handrails. *NOTE: not recomended when old lady pax boarding or when carrying a nav bag,unless the handle can fit in the mouth.

[ACMS]

My American F/O told me that NWA still operate about 100 DC-9's

WOW, that's incredible.

Are they DC-9 dash 30's or newer ones?


The last time I sat on the jump seat of a DC-9 30 was on US Air about 9 years ago from LGA to Dayton, nice :ok:

Brought back a lot of memories of riding Ansett jump seats as a kid.

Oh, and I sat in the jump seat on an Impulse 717 during the 2000 SYD Olympics, it was nice too but a bit more Boeing ized.

[teresa green]

Or a set of keys like I did, and sliced thru the thumb flesh, and I used to think I was so smart sliding down those steps, sort of saw myself as a sailor in a WW2 battleship going to battlestations, and finally realised after a trip to the Quacks to have it all sewn up, that I confirmed what my wife always knew, that I was a idiot! And she being a former RAAF nursing sister, I got no sympathy what so ever!:{

[B772]

Some readers may be surprised to hear that the original interest by AN in the DC9 was the series 20. Ansett-ANA signed a letter of intent for 6 DC9-20's on 17/3/64. The series 30 was then offered and accepted by AN with a firm order and options. The first a/c arrived in 1967.

[Aye Ess]

And initially there was even talk of putting a flight engineer on the DC9. Now wouldn't THAT have been a cosy little flight deck?

[zube]

They would have been as useful as the Popes cohones.

[ACMS]

They did put FE's in the DC-9 initially. He didn't do much though!!
After working out the details he was dropped from the crew. I think they lasted a few months? Maybe someone else knows the exact time frame?

[WHBM]

My American F/O told me that NWA still operate about 100 DC-9's

WOW, that's incredible.

Are they DC-9 dash 30's or newer ones?
Northwest is now part of Delta, and being integrated. The DC-9s are included in the repainting scheme, so Delta now has them in the fleet again many years after getting rid of their orignal ones.

Photos: McDonnell Douglas DC-9-51 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Delta-Air-Lines/McDonnell-Douglas-DC-9-51/1451731/M/)

The combined carriers still have a whole range of the DC-9 types in operation, various different sizes. Northwest have kept them very well. They never bought a new one but inherited a large fleet when the took over Republic, which in turn had been a merger of several large DC-9 users. Some are now coming up for their 40th anniversary.

[Ken Borough]

Some are now coming up for their 40th anniversary.

Just like some of their Flight Attendants!:E:}

[D.Lamination]

;)

Here is a pic (CNS nov 86) of TJQ in that less than ideal socialistic "our TAA" paint scheme. Had a pretty cr*ppy camera then. When we went to "our TAA advertising" I heard that Ansett gleefully bought up the rights to the tune "Up up and away in my beautiful balloon" thus preventing TAA, even if they realised their mistake, from ever using that most effective jingle again.:{:{

T-Jets was a much better scheme. T-Jets I guess inspired the registrations.
TJ* for TAA Jet - These ended up being 727-100's and DC-9's (now on QF 734's)

TB* for TAA Boeings - the 727-200's

TF* for TAA Fokkers - the F27's

TA* for TAA Airbuses - The A300

TQ* For ?? - was it Queenairs originally on Flying Doctor Contract?:confused: In my time they were on Fokkers - now they are Eastern Dash 8s

TV* for TAA Vickers - The Viscount

TL* for TAA Lockheed - The L188 Electra

Back in those days DCA /DOTA etc would not alow rego's to be recycled hence the TJ* 727-100's could not be recycled when the 727-200's arrived.

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss210/Ted_Striker/TAA/TAADC9VH-TJQCNS11-11-86.jpg

[Aye Ess]

Well,in my day VH-TQ* regos were on the Jetstream 31,so we just assumed because they hurtled around Queensland,it was for TAA QLD. The Tin Otters had TG* regos as we assumed they were from the days when the a/c were operated in Guinea(New)

[sixtiesrelic]

The Twotters were working out of Brisbane and Mackay in 1969 too.

[Aye Ess]

Yes,true,Sixtierelic. We were wondering though as to why the Taa a/c had the regos they wore. So,I wonder why the Electras had VH-TL*. Maybe L for Lectra?

[IAW]

According to a couple of posts up, the L stands for Lockheed.

[Aye Ess]

What an idiot,I am. Of course. I'll crawl back in my box now.

[Fliegenmong]

My question still stands though, has any found the footage taken from the tail of the 72??

[Captain Sherm]

Can't help with the footage tho I remember it....

As for the "TQ..." regos, my recollection is that the Q was for QC as all that series were QC freighters. Though (I think) TFM was also a QC. Too late and too tired to go and check that old logbook to find if I ever flew the old 2211/12 or 2248/49 on TFM.

Great machines tho and lots of learning. AS for the DC-9, Peter Muggleton trained me on it about 34 summers ago, bringing 6 full size bottles of beer to my room on a layover in CNS while training me and when I said I didn't drink (then!) he looked puzzled and said the beer was for him! Did show me how to cross SY NDB (think it was called Glenfield then) at 300 kts. Thoough Lushey showed me more and Ian Smith even more!!

[ditzyboy]

Here is a pic (CNS nov 86) of TJQ in that less than ideal socialistic "our TAA" paint scheme.

D.Lamington -

I'd kill to see a 332 and 717 in those colours! Somehow I do not think the idea of 'retro jet' liveries would go very far, with Qantas continually telling us how 'contemporary' and 'dynamic' they are.

[HANOI]

Re F-27 regos.

If memory serves me correctly , the F-27's were all to be TF* , however , the sequence was broken when it was found that TFO had already been used on a C402? with Thunderbird Aviation. TFM was the first "QC" ( Quick Change ) and stayed as such and the remaining deliveries were given TQ regos.
TAA used to operate a weekly DC9 CNS-POM-HIR v.v.. Henry Blackman ( AKA Larry,AKA Greasy,AKA Shaggs ) did a supernumerary ride once but declared the thing too bloody fast and maintained his preferred mode to HIR as the DC3 service Rabaul-Buka-Kieta-Munda-Yandina-Honiara ( once landing on the HIR golf course when Henderson Field suddenly closed due WX ).

[Capt Claret]

My first ever flight on an aeroplane was a TN F27 MEL-CBR (ex Essendon), followed some days later by a TN DC9 CBR-SYD, then a Lufthansa 707 SYD-SIN-FRA, and a BEA Trident FRA-LHR. :}

[Stationair8]

Obviously they didn't have terrorist's at Devonport airport in the 1960's!

[sixtiesrelic]

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g32/sixtiesrelic/AirVanCZF-1.jpg

Back in the olden days when pilots were sort of respected, Ansett painted CZF up in Air Van colours when we started flying their services on the weekends.
During the week she'd do normal Ansett services.
Y'orta seen the pax when they got out to her. Heads wagging looking for their plane and then closely inspecting the cockpit windows to ascertain the hairstyle of the drivers.
At CB one morning a business man busted into the cockpit when he got to the top of the front stairs and demanded, "You Australians?"
Captain didn't look up from the omega we were checking but just answered, "Bloody oath mate"
Pax took his seat happily then.

[aerodyne47]

What a great thread , boys. Best ever.

Does it bring back some memories. After a short stint as a TAA "bag-snatcher" I went the ATC way and was the Tower Flight Data on the Saturday morning following TJA CPAir coming together. Licence all of 2 weeks.

Sitting over the back of the console and hearing some discussion between my seniors and betters I asked "Did something happen last night?" only to have flight strips thrown at me. Oh well, make tea for the rest of the shift.

300kts to Glenfield (or 350 to about 12 for the 727) must have been exciting with the wind at 290/8 DW5 when you knew it was really 270/11. Sorry abot that. Great aeroplanes and great airlines, what happened?

Cheers

[fl610]

"Great aeroplanes and great airlines, what happened?"



That year that you can't mention!:mad: :(

[aerodyne47]

Yeh, but probably also technology, the drive for "efficiency", depersonalising and PC. ATC Centres on the other side of the airport, away from the movements of crews and passengers - no visits to the tower or centre by crews with an hour or so between flights. The windows of Sydney AACC C1972 looked out to the TAA/EWA carpark - you could actually see people arriving for their flights. These days you need a ground radar or CCTV to even see the movement of aircraft around terminals. Brisbane tower is not even "on airport" It cost me $18 in a taxi to go the CASA's offices "on airport" just before Christmas.

Sorry, I digress, get back to talking about aeroplanes.

Cheers

[Aye Ess]

All very true,but I guess when many of us were flying in the 70s,there were the older generation of pilots who missed the happy,carefree days of the 50s. I suppose that's called 'progress'. There are good things eg GPS, no VAR, better radar,higher,faster,more comfort.

[tipsy2]

The diesel was scheduled for natural retirement before but coincident with the end of the 2 Airline Policy.

Anything else that happened about the same time was purely an accident of timing, not operational design.

tipsy

[Eastwest Loco]

In reply to D.Lam's post.

The TQ registrations from TQN onwards were used for the Fokker F27 Quick Change 200 series (with some series vaiations within).

The TF rego was used for TFA thru TFM with TFA through to at least TFG being 100 series, TFH was a strange beast as the rego appearered on several aeroplanes, one of which was East West delivered I believe, and TFM was a pure Quick Change 200 series.

TFL and TFW (the latter sourced from All Nippon) were 200 series with no QC door, and TQS and TQT were QC's with the cargo door but no roller mats fitted. These generally were in BNE or DRW base and were seldom seen in Southern climes except when a C or D check was required. There were 150's and 600's in the mix somewhere but they were generally referred as 100 and 200 series.

TFB which was lost with all aboard off Mackay was actually the first delivered, continuing a poor record for "first of type" with TN, as TFA was delayed in delivery being retrofitted with wx radar.

Best all

EWL

[Dog One]

Great thread - keep the stories coming.

[Flava Saver]

Fliegenmong, no footage but heres TJB with the camera on it

http://www.taamuseum.org.au/Web_Images/TJB23.JPG

[grusome]

Jeez, I wouldn't like the cameraman's job!

[Fliegenmong]

:ENice stuff "Flava Saver"....but..... I'm sure you know to which footage I refer
:cool::{:8

[Aye Ess]

Apparently the cameraman was equipped with standard TAA issue goggles but his biggest challenge was changing film whilst hurtling past the Gold Coast at 300kts!!

[Critical Reynolds No]

Have you tried the TAA Museum at Essendon?

[teresa green]

Hanoi, The great Larry Blackman, got me out of the cot, at 0300 to help him rescue a horse that had fallen into a stormwater drain in Lae, after heaving and shoving with the help of four more TN pilots and two police boys, the ungrateful animal was slowly got back on his feet, and battered, bruised and beaten I made my way home, thankful I was only on standby, when sure enough crewing rang with, "Blackman can't fly he has done his back in, something about a horse" you will have to do his Charters Madang! I was ready to kill the bas#ard! :{

[sixtiesrelic]

Oh Treesa!
Poor bloody horse couldn't help fallin' in the barret. Fancy wantin' to kill it.
Ha ha.
Wonder how many of us fell in barrets ot one time or another.
Sorta off the topic but old Captain Drama from Patair told a story about himself.
Drama would have been No. 1 in TAA if the ex RAAF lads at the top were a bit more broad minded in the late forties.
Drama preferred gents to ladies.
Couldn't have "THAT sort" in TAA.
Drama had been down at Madang hotel for a long evening of genial company.
At rather a late hour he decided to walk back to the mess.
Was striding out along the road past the golf course (prob'ly marchin' in time to a Chune he was whistling while rememberin' the great old days when he was a Wingco in the RAAF and didn't have dumb F.Os who couldn't do a thing right) when he stumbled and fell.
Luckily he was alone and no one saw this shameful exhibition.
Got up and fell over again, tearin' his trousers and damaging a knee on the coronus surface.
Sat on the road for a while, while the world spinned.
After a rest, got up and continued his homeward journey, deciding to maybe take the pledge.
Gettin' old and unable to hold his booze. Not good to become one of those dried up old New Guinea "alkeys" who talked to themselves.
Hid the daks and then slept it off .
Next morning at breakfast he got a bit of a surprise when the subject of last nights GOURIA came up.
Felt greatly relieved and didn't take the pledge.
Drama was one of those blokes with many tens of thousands of hours in the DC-3.