TAA and the DC-9

[teresa green]

Wiley, I could not agree with you more, I sent mine "paddock bashing" from the time they were 19 years old, no cadetships for them, even if daddy was a captain at the time, and it nearly caused a divorce in the family, as the wife could not see why I simply would not cough up the money, especially in the case of the daughter (who she was quite sure would not survive the wilds of DRW) and looking at all the young pilots drinking at the institute, I must say I used to get a bit worried myself, but soon found out they kept a eye out for her, and she now lists many of them as best mates. I am not going to argue with the cadet system it has produced many fine pilots, but to me you cannot build a safe brick wall unless it has a strong foundation, it is like sending a new doctor just out of uni to do some brain surgery, ALL pilots have to have the sh%t scared out of them at least a couple of times, before they have PAX sitting behind them, so they get to know themselves and what they are capable of, how they react to sudden problems, and if they feel it is the career for them, and nothing replaces paddock bashing to get the answers. Its hell for their parents, especially those who are in the know, and know what can happen, when you put a kid in a aircraft on their own, you just have to have faith they can handle it. ( I can well remember my daughter doing her first night flight from DRW to Katherine, leaving at midnight, and there was no sleep in our house until she rang) my wife of course had her going down in croc infested waters, buffalo bulls chasing her, (if she survived) and all the rest, and I was the worst father in the world, because she should have a nice safe QF cadetship, so for those of you out there who can see the offspring are going to follow you into flying, be prepared for some sleepless nights, (and plenty of requests for money) and also prepare yourself for the way they live, (mainly like ferals, and known to wash dishes and clothes in the shower along with them selves all at the same time, but also realise it is the best time of their lives, but until they get into a Airline they will not believe you.

[tinpis]

They was low little buggers wern't they?
Sitting behind 'em at the holding in a 73 we seemed way higher.

[Aye Ess]

Indeed,they were low. The 737 needed the extra height to accomodate the engines. The DC9 with the engines mounted high at the rear had a lower fuselage,which allowed the bag snatchers to load & unload from a barrow. Refuellers needed no special climbing structure. Also with the engines at the rear,DC9s were known as the 'whispering T-Jets'. (Please note; the word 'whispering' in this context could be substituted with 'ear splitting,crackling')

[teresa green]

Sixties, when I first set eyes on the 9 after my New Guinea stint, I was gobsmacked, she was taxiing out at SYD and I well remember standing there just watching her, and like the rest of you became besotted, as she screamed down 1/6 and then nothing else mattered, I became obsessed with getting a endorsement on her, along with every other TAA pilot, especially the younger blokes, the older blokes were a bit wary, but once they mastered her (or so they thought, did anyone ever master her?) we were like kids in a lolly shop, couldn't get enough, and as you mentioned coming off DC3's, twotters, etc it was like joining the space shuttle. Most of us of course went on to fly other types, but this forum shows what a amazing aircraft it was, and how it affected us all. I suppose you could say it was really the first time most of us could strap a jet pocket rocket to our ar#e, sort of like getting your first Holden Monaro, that you spent hours "souping" up, if ever there was a big boys toy it was the 9. I remember as a F/O to I think John Blomburg, we were doing the usual "hold at Bindook" and John said "who gives a sh%t, we are flying a 9) and that about sums it up.

[tinpis]

What dont you lot BUY (http://www.speednews.com/EquipmentResults.aspx?Search=Aircraft&Aircraft=DC-9) one and give joy-rides? :ok:

[ACMS]

One of those 1968 31's or 32's must have been ex AN or TN?

I've just done a quick scan through the Serial numbers and none seem to be AN or TN, but they are very close.

Come on......................we gotta buy one :ok:

[tinpis]

Just think of the overnights......:rolleyes:

[Aye Ess]

Imagine a DC9 on the airshow circuit. It could be painted on one side red & white Ansett,the other blue & white TAA. There would still be stacks of endorsed pilots around to donate time to fly it. Ex hosties( aka flight attendants) would have a ball reliving the fun old days. I'll bet retired engineers would LOVE to work on one again. One pilot could wear Ansett uniform & one TAA. Rego could be VH-DCN.Joyflights,corporate charter. Kind of like a modern version of nostalgic DC3 flights.

[tinpis]

TAANSETT? :hmm:
Why not buy TWO? Paint 'em in respective liveries, and every so often have a round Oz air race? :rolleyes:

(Sportsbet be in that)

[Aye Ess]

ANSETTAA. As pax boarded,they could be asked if they want to sit where 'we're with you all the way' section or 'the friendly way' section.

[sixtiesrelic]

Ah! dream on....
You haven't come across CASA. They'd never allow it.
Some in there have had such bliss, blocking a DC-3 for the past two and a half years.
Maaate a DC-9 project to harrrassss. They’d cream their jeans when that came to ‘em.
Now if we did it in Godzone it’d be a goer, and wouldn’t it be fun!
The nostalgic DC-3 flights...
There's only one left. If ya' think a nostalgic ride would be fun, ya' better get yourself off to Essendon and go with Shortstop before one person connected to CASA gets his wish... "They should be behind glass in a museum".

[sixtiesrelic]

Treesa, I don't know if the Ansett blokes got that fear of the nine like the TAA blokes in the sixties.
I was round the TAA area as a kid and heard that the lack of propwash over the wings, specially after coming off the Electra was a bit scary.
Huey Yorston didn’t want to go near ‘em.
Poor Old Merv Thomas had a bad trot (difference in character to his trainer I believe) so he bombed out. Many became sure she was too much for them.
Lyn Fletcher bombarded his training Captain with a magnanimous present when he got through.
His trainer said, “It’s just another bloody aeroplane” and trained accordingly.
Many years later I had all the same doubts and reckoned my endorser and training Captains were the ant’s pants for somehow getting’ a clod with ten big toes on his hands through.

[tinpis]

Anyone know where the report is on the -9 in in the USA, got belted by hail, lost two and ended up in a gas station?
Rivetting it was. :uhoh:

[teresa green]

If we buy one, can I keep it at my place, the missus will have to move out, they would hate one another!:)

[milkybarkid]

About now this is appropriate.

YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo)

[Dog One]

What fleets were crews for the Viscounts sourced from? Was the Viscount used as a stepping stone to the -9

[Eastwest Loco]

Doggies

From what I remember, the Viscount was the stepping stone to the Electra initially, and then onto the 727.

My "Uncle" by association Ken "Boomer" Collins was very very senior with TN and stepped up that route as many others did. By the time the DC9 appeared, TJ Alpha through Foxtrot were up and running and and the Viscounts had gone and a good thing too with the single spar/gearbox fire danger in the 700 series and the step was then F27 to DC9.

My memory may be faded there, but please correct me if that is not the case.

Boomer Collins was an amazing airman, having flown P51 Mustangs in WWII diving on V1 doodlebugs to get to their speed, positioning a wing under their stub wing and banking away to turn the thing over so it would crash in the channel and not reach its target.

He was also the first Pilot to reverse pitch on all Allisons in an Electra in the cruise, as TAA wanted the results in their ops manual. Lockheed were also interested greatly in the results.

With all due respects to the incumbents in this room who I am sure are wonderful pilots, we will never see the like of the gentlemen who first took the helm of the DC6B, Viscount, Electra, F27 and DC9 not to mention 727 again.

They were the guys with the "Right Stuff".

God bless them all, and isn't it wonderful that there are so many of you out there, who flew with and learned your trade form the old Bomber Command blokes.

Never ever forget.

They deserve that, and one day an old trick heard but nearly forgotten may turn potential disaster into unlikelly triumph.

I am sure they ride your wing on every sector,

Best all

EWL

[B772]

Dog One. At AN when a new type was introduced the initial crews were sourced from numerous types. When the DC9 was introduced the initial school of 20 pilots consisted of mainly Viscount and DC6B pilots plus a small number of L188 pilots and at least one B727 pilot from memory.

(This was the era when AN accepted 19 year olds with a bare CPL, < 200 hours of SE time and no Instrument Rating).

[Jabawocky]

Was merely a toddler back then EWL......
He was also the first Pilot to reverse pitch on all Allisons in an Electra in the cruise, as TAA wanted the results in their ops manual. Lockheed were also interested greatly in the results.


So tell more of this storey.....what was the deal about and the results!

J:ok:

[teresa green]

Sixties, yes, the older blokes say from 50 on, as you know, had been happily trundling around the skies for 30 odd years, in piston, and later turboprop aircraft, and then suddenly confronted with the screaming little beast, which basically arrived before it left (if you get my gist) challanged all that they knew and were comfortable with, especially that old but true saying, belted into your head from your flying instructor "always be ten minutes ahead of your aircraft" well to be 10 minutes ahead of the 9 was like running a marathon with your shoe laces tied together, and with the same result, trying to keep up with the little bugger, was like being a one legged tap dancer, and spare a thought for the poor bugger doing a OOL/BNE, my first one was like a night in the madhouse, bloody pencils behind my ears, check lists of mammoth preportions (or seemed to be) I was going like a one armed paper hanger, with the skipper saying "your behind her lad, you have to do better than that" I remember getting off thinking "thats it you have stuffed it", my shirt stuck to me with sweat, and any ideas that I had of myself of being a capable pilot left in tatters. Well, a night at the Breccy Creek hotel and a few beers with the same skipper, who was patient and a excellent check and training bloke (ex navy fighter sqdn) and two sectors the next day BNE/OOL OOL/SYD saw me start to catch on and pick up speed, and I was then in my late thirties or so, so for a bloke of 50 odd, jesuuuus, it would be very difficult, unless you had a lot of sim time, and some of them simply could not handle it, (and didn't want to) and happily trundled back to their fockers etc.

[Eastwest Loco]

Jaba

The L188 apparntly dropped like a stone.

Ken regained control in a timely judicious manner, and the deed was done. I have no further info on the event other than it was conidered a "must do" by the heirachy at TN.

Ken can unfortunately not add to this as he dropped dead 3 months out of a full medical playing Golf with Captain East who initially thought he was fooling around when he face planted lining up a putt. He had departed before he hit the green.

It would be so magic if he was still here and contribute, but his and many other legends live on beyond our grasp.

Best regards

EWL

[Captain Sherm]

Teresa reminds Sherm of how the -9 had one flaw....it destroyed the concept of the liesurely meal for a long time. On a MEL-SYD sector, if everything went well (and while answering the radio, making position reports, running ground speed checks etc) you had about 5 minutes to eat. For many years later even when taking Mrs Sherm to the Florentino, it was difficult while delicately slicing the chateubriand not to be thinking "Gee, Top of Descent coming up soon, better get the ATIS, call the company, set up the pressurization, get out the approach plates, calculate the exact TOD". Gobble gobble gobble. Does rather take the sting out of a romantic evening. Fortunately Mrs Sherm was (and remains) forgiving.

And in the simulator, back in the days of the "lollypop" yellow cabin outflow valve control.....you'd just know, approaching TOD, that you'd get a Left AC bus failure with AC X-tie lockout and at that time the pressurization didn't auto X-tie it's AC source. So you were straight into the AC failure checklist (remember that laminated folder we had?) while managing that absolute mongrel of an outflow valve trying to avoid blood loss from the ears, and managing all other aspects of the descent. Fun?

As for Ken Collins...a very young Sherm , his one gold stripe as yet unused was driven by his dad (who'd flown with Ken) down to AFAP HQ at Albert Road in 1970, where with great solemnity Ken and one other (maybe Max Laurie) very very senior B727 Captains and AFAP trustees accepted the young Sherm's application to join the AFAP. That was followed by a celebratory drink in the president's office.

That was in the days when the President of the AFAP could get the PM on the phone....where DCA would always involve the VP-Technical in anything technical or safety, and where even the Senior Regional Captain at the induction day reminded young pilots of their obligations to support the union and add to it.

We have lost Collins and his peers...(though not their spirit as EWL reminds us)....and we have lost much else that they built. The "me first" attitdue to unions and careers was not what they were on about.

But Sherm digresses.....yesterday was given an old "Aircraft" magazine, 1968, with that great ad showing Reg "Ike" Eisenhauer...(sigh)....was shown in uniform walking away from the 727 simulator and its travails. Reg showed me the DC-9 for the first time......it was a remains the coolest machine built and to see the dream of commanding one come true was a very great event in Sherm's life. The beloved MD-80 which kept Sherm safe for years in very unlovely worlds and kept Sherm's family in baked beans was simply an enhanced -9. They sure got that design right.

[James4th]

Actually I cant remember much about my DC3-DC9 training; it was conducted my Merv Oswald who latter died in a car crash in the USA. But I do remember he spend an inordinate amount of time down the back chatting up the girls while I struggled with the beast on my own.

I remember Art Hoffman going into crewing and telling them not to roster me SYD-CBRs until I had more experience! I was a bit worried at that; I though I was doing a great job! But later on in life when I was a skipper, Art told me what it looked like from his side ........ I was embarrassed even at that distance in time.

Putting up with J(D)P and his idiosyncrasies, and a very few others who were to be avoided at all costs. I remember one particular Skipper who people avoided like the plague; I copped him one night and was abused, shouted at and generally made to feel like s**t. After 4 legs we ended up in the Pub and he said "You wanna drink, boy?" I politely refused and went to lay down and consider what I had done to deserve this treatment. (Luxury, I hear you say!):)

Half an hour later there was a knock on my door and it was he. He said "I was a bit rough on on you today" he held up a bottle of whiskey and two glasses ...... I invited him in ...... we chatted ...... came to an understanding
..... had far too much to drink.

When we climbed into the cockpit the next day he was no different; but at least I drank his whiskey. So Slats, old son, you did teach me something after all ....... that there was a need for CRM that came about 20 years later. And yes you could fly the c**p outa that Diesel ..... so God bless you too, you old Bastard :p

[James4th]

Sherm, where did to fly the MD 80? Where I am at the moment the Saudia MD95 EFDs are coming and going and that always gets my pulse racing although they are a bit longer that the -9-30 and therefore dont look quite as good.

I had forgotten the speed eating issue; I suffered from that for years afterwards and even now, in my dotage, it is only severe indigestion that stops me bolting my food down.

After reading all these pages I tried a high speed arrival in my A320 last night but its just not the same is it?:confused:

Remember it is not a high speed approach unless you are not sure whether you are going to make it or not until the very last moment:E

[Eastwest Loco]

Sherm

It is so great to hear that Ken Collins and his ilk are remembered by name. Ken was and will always be my hero.

Such airmen should have a hall of fame, from TN AN and QF, and even EW and Bushies.

They built the infrastructure that made the DC9 727 F27 and even the Electra and Viscount legends in this country.

It wasn't the aeroplane, it was the gentlemen and later ladies that flew the pants off them and at times took them to places their manufacturers never imagined.

I would give all I have for another ride MEL ADL PER on TJA which then continues ADL ASP DRW and then TBG ADL PER with Ken Collins, Wayne Rawlings and Moss Darby as FE.

Just being with those gentlemen on the flight deck gave me as an 18 year old a real insight into teamwork and professionalism.

The Deisel is only a wonderful aeroplane because of the people who flew her to and beyond her design limits.

Best all

EWL

[Jabawocky]

Hey Sherm
yesterday was given an old "Aircraft" magazine, 1968
:eek:
Take it easy old chap!

Top thread folks!

[Jabawocky]

My memories of the era were more about my cousin Narelle Smiley (AN Trolley Dolley) getting me a trip to the pointy end from Sydney to Bris. :ok:

As a 7-9 year old that was the best treat you could get! Got the bug then.......:)

[smiling monkey]

Indeed this is a great thread!

Couldn't find any cockpit videos on the DC9 on YouTube, but here's one of a 727 landing at Melbourne .. not sure whether this is AN or TN's 727 ..

YouTube - Boeing 727 cockpit landing at Melbourne (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1duhmLzBv7I)

[Wiley]

Re the speed eating, (for which I still get into trouble for to this day from She Who Mustt Be Obeyed), from my post #50 on page 3:You knew you'd mastered the beast when both pilots managed to eat their breakfast - separately - on the same sector, with a 35 departure from CB and a straight in aproach (R/W 07) in to SY. (I only ever managed this once, and remember the captain's name to this day, and I have to admit, it involved scoffing my meal down at a very ungentlemanly rate! The captain handed the hostie his tray at about 5,000' on finals for 07 at Sydney.)

[puff]

smiling monkey - I think the posted video is definately an Ansett machine because i think the boys are wearing the old 'blue' shirts, and AFAIK the throttles with the extra wide number 1 and 3 were only on the LRs which only AN had.

Willing to be proved wrong though!

[puff]

One for EWL

YouTube - East-West Airlines early 1990s ad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4Jpz_OXAKc)

[Al E. Vator]

YouTube - TAA TV Commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wp__x6qVyI&NR=1)

[By George]

'Puff' I think you are correct about the 727 video, it looks like an 'LR'. To the right of the radar the panel is blank and to the left you can just see the edge of the VLF Omega. RMX and RMN were both straight 200's and did some Pacific flying, NZ and lease to Poly etc. We had a problem with the Omega it would drop off in very heavy rain, ie tropical downpours etc. Something to do with the 'H' Field Antenna, can't remember now. The 'Department of Changing Names' thought this would not do for 'Ocean Flying' and made Ansett add a second Omega to the right of the radar. You know of course, what happened next, they would both fail in heavy rain! Kept our minders happy though, thats the main thing.

[Eastwest Loco]

Excellent puff

Thanks for that. It was wonderful to see Whiskey Bravo strutting her stuff again. Whiskey Bravo seemed to have an affinity for being on "firsts".

First on HBA replacing F27 services, first for EW into DPO on the SYD nonstop, and first back in after the '89 business. We were always pleased to see her.

That ad campaign was mid-late '80s. Rather an effective one too.

Best was the roll-out of Whiskey Alpha from an inteligently lit CO2 fog filled hangar.

I did have a little sniff though.

Best all

EWL

[teresa green]

James the 4th, Slats was the ol bastard who knocked my headset off because the DC3 donks were out of sync, Ok it was midnight, he was asleep (or so I thought) I was doing the usual checks, but as a young lad I was looking forward to landing in BNE after grinding from MEL with a load of stinking eels, and thinking what possibility of meeting a woman with no morals what so ever, and for my relapse got a smack in the head, and probably deserved it, imagine smacking the F/O in the head now, Slater and Gordon, Tea and Bickies, Councillers, Law Courts all come to mind how things have changed

[Slasher]

Ah, the DC9 one of the sexiest, female, bitchy, beautiful, Aircraft ever built

Spot on teresa green! :ok:

I never flew the -9 but was on the 727 as FO. I remember having a ball and racing those -9 guys into Brizzy from MEL (the -9 inbound from SYD). And I used to always grease the 3-holer into ASP at 44C with bug+10!

I pity the present-day Airboos kids who will never know what flying a REAL aeroplane was like. Unfortunatley Im stuck on the damn A320 where the wheel is reinvented every time I fl.. fl... operate the damn thing. Navigation by pure raw data and Direct Law scares the sh!t out of the kids in the sim.

[Obie]

Don't really want to rain on your parade guys, but having learnt to fly on the DH82, followed by an endorsement on the DHC1 and then the C150, C172, C185, Auster, Pa22, Pa24, Pa28, C210, C182, B33 and B35 and then being fortunate enough to get a job with an airline that got me onto the DC3, CV440, F27, DC9, B737/2/3/4/500, MD80, BAE146 and finally the A320 and then lapsing happily into retirement, having enjoyed the whole ball game and every aircraft I was luck enough to fly, I gotta tell you...

I really do wonder about you lot with all this nostalgia nonsense!...

The past is finished, enjoy the memories but get on with the future! :ok::ok:

[teresa green]

Obie, pi$s off!

[Al E. Vator]

Obie...don't want to rain on your parade but I'm a youngie (youngish anyhow) bloke living for the present and the future and doing well too but the past was better. Pilots were largely in it for the joy of flying rather than the 'money'. The art of flying a challenging piece of equipment was a pleasure.

Now all I do is blindly follow a GPS re-enforced green line on an ND in Normal Law with lots of protections and no brainwork, with some blokes who don't know a DC9 from a Ford Falcon. Often they're grumpy because they've been an FO for 2 years and haven't got their commands yet.

So whilst I might concede that looking at the past with too rosy glasses is an error, I would have to say that flying in say the 60's or 70's truly was something to get a little sentimental over.

Cearly the overwhelming response to this thread is proof of that fact!

[ozaggie]

Right, I,ll have another crack at beating this effing computer to time-out. I,m with you T.G. never flown a pure jet,but have jump-seated a few times while at bn AN freight in the eighties. Only once in the DC-9, and loved every minute of it. Great plane, and great drivers. Cheers, OA

[James4th]

Teresa, which Gordon are we talking about? I flew with L.G. on the DC4 in '68 and he was a thorough gentleman and lifted me out of one of my early downers where I had been plunged by people like Slats.

I have also have had the pleasure of flying with his son ........ but maybe it was a different Gordon?

And to other posters:- I am flying the A320 now (but I am almost time expired overseas) and you can have fun in it if you put your mind to it and no one is watching (like flying down in Africa ....:E) but that's for another thread. Let's keep our mind on the Diesel!

When I returned this afternoon to home base there was all all white (and dirty) DC9-30 parked in the VIP area with South African rego. She looked a bit forlorn so I am trying to find out who owns it to see if I can take it for a spin (I have always been a dreamer :))

Who remembers "Jock" the broad (in more ways than one) Ginger Beer in MEL who used to fling the chocks under the wheels, plug in and roar "Chocks in Skipperrrrrr" When he was on push back duty many a pilot would say "What did he say?" so thick was his accent. Another great character lost to us.

[James4th]

Obie was it you who coined the phrase:-

"Nostalgia is not what it used to be"
;)

[tinpis]

Nostalgia: If you didnt want to play with these guys trainset, you must be dead.

YouTube - 727 Transafrik / Air Gemini (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BIJqb90S-8)

[teresa green]

James, we are talking about Gordon Close, one of natures gentlemen, and with out doubt probably the best pilot I have ever seen. They called him "silky" because of his landings, he was born in CNS, served in Bombers during WW2, joined TAA and stayed there until the dreaded 89", went on to SQ where he finally finished up on the Classic. He passed away from a blood disorder about two years ago, and lived most of his adult life in Aspley/BNE. As a check and training Captain he was second to none, patient, kind, firm, and always well mannered, but loved a beer and a laugh, any of you blokes who flew with him out there, I am sure will back me up. Vale Gordon. Will never forget you mate.

[Pinky the pilot]

and thinking what possibility of meeting a woman with no morals what so ever, and for my relapse got a smack in the head

Please excuse the brief thread drift

Teresa; Obviously you would have got the engines in sync fairly quickly after that, but I'm curious as to if you also managed to meet the above mentioned woman?:E

And to all previous posters, (with the possible exception of one) This thread is one of the most entertaining and informative I have ever read!:ok:

Long may it continue.

[Obie]

Whilst I find your nostalgia a little tiresome, Teresa, I do admire your persistence and accept that many readers here enjoy the interesting stories that you tell. However, you are a little loose with the truth here and there!

I don't know of any WW2 bomber pilot flying with any airline, anywhere in Oz, in 1989! Some simple maths will confirm that it couldn't be!

I had the good fortune, as you did, to fly with many WW2 Fighter and Bomber pilots in the early days of my career and have as many good memories as you of these delightful characters, but please, keep it accurate! :ok:

Still, as we all say, never let the truth get in the way of a good story! :ok:

[paulg]

Tinpis ..... Transafrik .......wowwww.......:ok:

[teresa green]

You are correct obie he could not have been in 89' he had already long gone to SQ, but what he did was offer help and a handup to many of the pilots he knew so well and trained, and because he was around I connected him with that time. Sorry for the incorrect info. He certainly served in bomber command and spent most of his flying career in TAA, sorry if I bore you old chap, perhaps you should simply skip to the next post. ..

[teresa green]

Nah Pinky, never got lucky, perhaps it was the smell of the eels. I think I just lay on the cot dreaming of ways to kill slats, before he smacked me in the head again.:(

[Jabawocky]

Obie and TG

Some started at ages that were.......well.....typographical errors shall we say, so it is mathematically possible!

[flyingins]

Let's assume that someone was 19 years old in 1943. Not at all unreasonable for a Bomber Command pilot during WW2.

Go forward 46 years to 1989. That same gentleman would be 65.

Perfectly reasonable.

Obie, far be it from me to enquire as to why you're so inconvenienced by nostalgia, but surely if it is that irksome to you it would be more trouble to actually write any posts on this thread (let alone erroneously correct the age-related mathematics of those who actually do know what they're talking about) than it would be to leave all of us "DC-9 dreamers" in peace? :oh:

For the record, my first jet was the 717. In spite of my current "Airbus affections", I am now and shall forever be a Douglas man.

This is the best thread PPRUNE has ever seen. :D

[Propstop]

Tinpis
Transafrik have long departed the scene but Air Gemini are still here with the B727-100 and the DC9-30. They are transporting passengers and freight now rather than fuel.
In Huambo in early 1990 there was a DC8-50 which used to carry fuel and often would blow a tyre on landing as the runway was barely long enough. They would simply just offload the fuel and takeoff back to LAD where the totally shredded tyre would be replaced for the next run. Sometimes if the brake was stuffed the axle would be stripped of wheel and brake and they would depart with a bare axle.
Days gone by; the basics have not changed, just the presentation.

[flysaucer1200]

I rode back from Townsville on a DC9 once. I was young, It was 1989 or so. I think a two or so hour trip. The captain let me up the front onto the flight deck. I was naturally amazed by the sheer makeup of the buttons and clocks that made the jet fly. Awestruck ever since.. At one point I remember the captain talking onto the microphone and then asking me to help change direction. He asked me to carefully and slowly rotate a small wheel located on the panels between the two pilots. I gave it a small twist to the right and the DC-9 gave a slight bank right. The captain told me the align the white line with a letter marked on the panel, and the after some seconds he told me to rotate back left, Carefully so, to centre the white mark. Pretty amazing a pilot would let the happen. I have been grateful ever since. I also remember looking out the window of the flight deck at the coast line and seeing all the different colours emerge to those that get high enough. And, then the captain said, “look, that’s Fraser island down there. Astonished I was. From that day, my thoughts were always, ‘that flying job has got to be better than chasing sheep and cattle around everyday!
Fs120o :ok:

[Aye Ess]

Flysaucer, many of the TAA (the Friendly way) crews would encourage the Flight attendents to let pax come up the front for a look. Many were allowed to turn the autopilot heading knob & were amazed to watch outside while the horizon tilted. Imagine today what story Current Affair would run about such things..."Airliner Flown by passengers,it could happen to YOU!!"

[teresa green]

Sigh, things are so different. I had a drink with a ex F/E in SYD the other day and he reminded me of a time when we were flying a 727 from PER/SYD, it was the dreaded red eye of course, and at 0200 some little tacker was driving everyone nuts, his parents included, who were obviously worn out, the F/E was taking a stroll, and being a dad many times over, he picked up the little bloke and brought him up to the flight deck, where the little bloke (wearing my hat) happily played with pencils and paper, shared our tucker, and was more than happy to look out the window, peace was restored and a grateful young dad came to get him after at least getting a small amount of shuteye. Forward to now. PHEDOPHILE PILOTS the headlines would scream, DNA was taken from all three crew members, when a 3 year old child was found on the flight deck of a TAA airliner, the parents were shocked that their child was found in such a dangerous situation, and the three crew members have been interviewed by Federal Police. Slater and Gordon are now suing the Airline for distress caused to the parents. Sad isn't it. Three blokes all dads, (we counted 11 rug rats between us) all who would prefer to slit their own throats than touch a child, would suddenly become sus. Well give me nostalga anytime, and to read these postings makes you wish you could freeze time and go back to a more innocent age, when blokes were blokes and women were women, and you could kick your kid up the ar#e if need be. Remember when as a kid you always had skinned knees from falling out of trees etc, when was the last time you saw a kid with skinned knees? Doesn't happen in front of a computer, just your brain gets scrambled, anyway no more,I will upset Obie. By the way the situation of the "present", was invented by the F/E and myself as a possible senario, after we "kidnapped" the above kid and hopefully would not happen, but then no pilot would dare to take someones kid on the flightdeck today anyway!

[Pinky the pilot]

Your observations re the small child way back then, in your post teresa are only too true! Have you ever wondered though if that child had because of that experience, grown up to eventually become a Pilot himself?

Sadly, these days, even if it was possible to do as your F/E did back then, the unfortunate scenario you posted would most probably occur!:sad:

[Stationair8]

By my humble calculations if the guy had done a tour on bombers in 1945 at age 20, he could still be flying with TAA in 89, if the retirement age was 65?

TG, did you finish on the DC-9 or B727?

TG, did TAA run DC-3 freighters YMML direct Brisbane?

Remember a guy Tony Wilson ex TAA running CRM course around Melbourne in the 90's, telling us about first flight as a new captain on a DC-9 out of Melbourne and on depatrure having a tyre delaminate, then holding out over the bay to burn fuel prior to returning, a quick tyre change and then departing for his maiden flight as a captain.

His other good story was the departure out of Hobart in the B727 to go to NZ, when TAA and Ansett both run to NZ in the 80's. On departure the F/E could not get the tail skid to retract and as they climbed up they picked up ice on the skid which caues a vibration and some limitation speed wise meant had to cruise at a lower speed and level, meant they might not have the fuel requirements to go to NZ. The F/E however was more concerned about another problem if they had to return to Hobart, what happens with all the duty free stuff that he had purchased for his wife, kids and neighbour. The flight proceeded to NZ and the duty free was safe!

[Obie]

...if some of you lot had at least half a brain and did a little research you would know that the retirement age in 1989 was 60...

give us a break and go and read your comics elsewhere! :ok:

Even Teresa probably finds you a pain in the a*se!! :ok:

[sixtiesrelic]

Obie no one's interested in your rants... go away!

[tinpis]

OT but.... was freight dogging in the UK in the late 70s. Often got to fly with a lovely old fella always brought along his old mate Labrador with him
Once over the North Sea somewhere off Rotterdam, he pointed down at the water and said "Been in there twice in a Lanc.. Damn night fighters out off Holland you know. Jerry picked me up the second time"
Poor bugger devloped a ticker problem and he bought a car and taxyed the crew around where needed.
I never knew until years later after his passing, it was someone here on Pprune told me, he was one of the Colditz escapees.
"The Great Escape"

Respect

[Propstop]

Obie
Please put that lemon down and have a happy pill...................There now is that a lot better??
I am enjoying this thread as I was a gingerbeer back in those days in MEL and SYD.
I do think that at the age we are, and the great tales which are being told, there can be a wee bit of 'poetic licence', or to be a little more blunt; our memories are not as good as they were 40 years ago, and I expect neither is yours.
Please keep the tales coming....

[Stationair8]

obie, **** off there's a good chap!!!!

[737Simmer]

Hey Teresa Green,

great post. I'm one of the ones who was kindly given the jumpseat as a young (and not so young) kid and never forgot any of those experiences.

Sadly these days I can't even take my kids out to the ramp at a GA airfield to crawl around an aircraft - how sad! I was very lucky to grow up at the tail end of those great days.

73

[sixtiesrelic]

I was one of the real lucky ones.
Got to sit on the old man's lap in a Dragon at eight and chase a Dingo across the Morney Plain. Throttled back at about thirty feet we stayed on his tail for what seemed to me to be a long time.
Went on many a test flight after aircraft came out of maintenance with him too.
When I had my time, all kids got to come up to the cockpit. Heard later the hosties thought I was a pain in th earse... interfered with the cabin service.
Old kids and young kids.
Told the F.O. that the pax will tend to gravitate to one of us with the questions. Whoever wasn't being talked to would mind the ship.
Lotsa old blokes were as wrapt as the little kids.
Occasionally I told the last poor bugger who'd waited and waited, to strap 'emselves in the jumpseat for the approach and landing.
Never had a complaint and the faces told me a story.
The most thrilling cockpit visitor for me was Douglas Bader... in a Nine. Me captain and I were madder'n hell that it was a bloody Sydney - Canberra. He was a funny man and said "COULD I" when the capt asked if he'd like the jumpseat.

[teresa green]

Stationair, finished on the Airbus, and left OZ after 89 for a 3 year stint in Europe (Belgium) came back to OZ as wife and kids very homesick, with a 747 endorsement, went gratefully to QF (as had four starving kids to feed) and earned myself two little stripes, which was a interesting study in human behaviour, I accepted the job humbly, in fact was amazed that I passed that silly test (in my day you could either fly the bloody thing or you couldn't) all this group hug, softy feely stuff was totally beyond me, on our flight decks, you either had a well aimed manual chucked at you, or as previously posted you could earn a smack in the head, and in later years were never left in any doubt where you came in the food chain. It was always interesting when you signed on to see the doubtful look from a Skipper (some who still had bum fluff on their faces) about suddenly having someone the same age as their father sitting behind them, most were polite, but unsure, always skirting around what happened in 89, (except one smart ar#e F/O who berated me at every chance from SYD to HNL about what idiots we all were, until the Skipper told him to shut the F$#k up) but I just sat there (sorry guys, but being a QF S/O has to be one of the most boring jobs on earth) and did what I was paid to do, until QF took pity on me and moved me onto the 767 until 60 then on to the 737 until 65, when much to my wife's horror I came home for good. I have now just finished my first helicopter flying lesson, and let me tell you its like trying to stuff a live squid into a string bag ( I was always a bit suss about aircraft that don't need to take a running jump before coming airborne) and I am beginning to think I am right, but I will stick at it (if there are no more posts from me, you know what happened) but hey, I flew a 9, I can do anything!

[rodchucker]

Teresa,

All power and credit to you my friend.Your time on PP shows the respect you command and the wisdom you impart. Also sounds like you and the wife have a lot to be very proud of.

Now get on with those lessons, as there would be many who would line up for a ride.

Would have gladly joined you in Port Morbid and shared a beer and am still wondering if you ever used that damn gun, but lets not digress from the 9.

:D

[Capt Claret]

teresa, that wasn't you on the 15 threshold at CNS today, was it?

ILS, hover taxi back to the threshold. Up and down, up and down, pirouette left, pirouette right.

Given that I know nothing about helicopters except that some how, they defy gravity, it looked very controlled and co-ordinated, almost beautiful even. :}

[sixtiesrelic]

Hell Treesa...
helicopters don't fly... they remain aloft by makin' a bloody lot of noise. The earth repells 'em.
As you say you FLEW a nine so you can do anything.
I flew mimimum aircraft in the mid seventies... reckoned if I stayed just a couple of feet up I couldn't fall down far.
Trouble with choppers is when they fall down they flog 'emselves to peices.
STAY HIGH (both fun wise and altitude).

[Eastwest Loco]

Well done indeed teresa

One does however note that travelling in an aeroplane whose wings travel at a greater velocity than the fuselage is generally accepted as performing an unnatural act.

Go you good thang you!! :eek::ok:

Best regard from an envious EWL who has a hard enough time keeping a 16 year old 300ZX TT safe in only 2 dimensions.

I dips me lid to you.

[boocs]

Al Watson was mentioned quite a few posts ago....

I remember doing one of many theory subjects at Essendon with Alan, and he would always come out with a good story, especially after lunch when we were a bit sleepy and needed to be woken up.....

"I remember back on the noooiiiine years ago in Lonny one day. We took off, and before you knew it we went through a flock of birds. And f$ck me after a few minutes it smelt like bloody KFC down the back!!"

Woke us up with a few laughs and got us back to the task at hand.
b.

[john_tullamarine]

Al was always a very funny fellow ... I have fond memories of him as a new chum to the left seat when I started out in the right, albeit of a similar age.

[Aye Ess]

Wish I was. Who remembers the funny little plumb bob in the nose wheel well so we could see the adjustments to be made if the a/c wasn't level when doing a manual weight & balance chart. I suppose no one ever had to use it for real....did they?

[SOPS]

The 777 has a electronic plumbob to do the same thing...and please lets stay on the topic, this thread has been great!!!!:ok:

[Tidbinbilla]

Folks,

Amos won't be around for a little while.

To get things back on track I've removed the offending post, along with some of your responses (for clarity).

Now, what about the 9?:E My first flight deck visit with my U/12 league team way back when. Think it was CG-SY. That was the deciding factor to get into the biz :}

TID

[Capt Claret]

One of the removed posts called for some pics to get thinks back on track.

Enter the Steroidal DC9! :ok:


http://www.pegasus.bigpondhosting.com/PPRuNe/Almost_a_9/ovrtake1.jpg


http://www.pegasus.bigpondhosting.com/PPRuNe/Almost_a_9/ovrtake2.jpg


http://www.pegasus.bigpondhosting.com/PPRuNe/Almost_a_9/trpcltch.jpg


http://www.pegasus.bigpondhosting.com/PPRuNe/Almost_a_9/dsrttch.jpg


http://www.pegasus.bigpondhosting.com/PPRuNe/Almost_a_9/dsrtld.jpg



http://www.pegasus.bigpondhosting.com/PPRuNe/Almost_a_9/dsrtrev.jpg


http://www.pegasus.bigpondhosting.com/PPRuNe/Almost_a_9/push.jpg

[travelator]

Who remembers the funny little plumb bob in the nose wheel well so we could see the adjustments to be made if the a/c wasn't level when doing a manual weight & balance chart. I suppose no one ever had to use it for real....did they?

The 717 still has it. It's for calibrating the numbers when doing a drip stick. Takes about 20 minutes for the bl#$dy thing to stop moving around (then a baggie throws in a bag and you have to start again!)

[Captain Sherm]

Thanks Tidbinbilla......a timely intervention

I can still remember as a very yound F27 F/O sitting on the jumpseat of a -9 in 1970 going in to HBA. The skipper had that lovely Collins autopilot plugged in and he left the rudimentary auto-throttle in (a great device but not really designed for approach). It sat at something like 1.3 vs....anyway, there we were on track on slope on speed, auto-spoilers armed.....and no hands! If needed it would get you to the end of the RW all by itself. Absolute magic. Nowadays....barely raise an eyebrow but the -9 was so far ahead of its time then its hard to remember now.

Another name just sprang to mind.....had some great times with him. Barry Prince.....now sadly gone. A great aviator and fun in the cockpit. He did the walk around one day and collided with the dreaded RAT probe (part of the RAT/EPR gauge system....that was a handful to learn). Barry turned up in the cockpit, stunned and bleeding, no doubt concussed.....saying "she'll be right, get me a band-aid". Sanity prevailed however and he was led off in a daze and I think Alex Johnstone stepped in and took over the left seat job.

Barry made a speech to our crew at a little party in the Perth Sheraton on my last layover as a 727 F/O before starting my DC-9 command training. It went something like (Barry enjoyed a lot of beer) ...."well you're now completely useless as an F/O so you'll no doubt make a good captain!"

Long sigh........

[1746]

A fine example of Aviation's true gentlemen!
may he rest in peace.....

[Stationair8]

What did the Ipec guys flying before the DC-9?

[teresa green]

She is indeed a lovely thing Capt. Claret, her nose and radome are not quite the same, but she could still pass as a nine for computer nerds. Thanks for the great shots.

[Qanchor]

Station8,
I believe they operated the Armstrong-Whitworth Argosy. A twin boomer that well and truely falls into the "a face that only a mother could love" category.
Back in the day I played tennis with the BNE airport tennis club at Hendra and we'd hear these guys departing for their night freight run to wherever, when they passed overhead it sounded a lot like two F27's in close formation with no two engines (of the four) in sync.

[chimbu]

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv173/milcor/19831001.jpg
Some of these MEL based TAA names have appeared in this thread previously, all were/ or are great people. Probably those still alive would be mid- to- late 80's now. Most learnt to fly at the tail end of the war. One thing that impressed a young F/O, in addition to their superb airmanship was their humility. They recognised their luck in joining the RAAF rather than the Army or Navy and surviving. No small feat Then more good fortune in the late 40's to be selected to join a great airline. Of course the pay wasn't great, the equipment- wartime leftovers (DC-3/ DC-4) and the 'so called' prestige job twenty years off.


Can we compare the DC9 with the DC3? Certainly a DC3 flight included elements of excitement. Passengers then had respect and admiration for pilots. They had to climb up the steep cabin; the drama of the engine start (woe betide if the hapless F/O flooded an engine causing backfire); the magneto check into wind at rwy threshold; the noise when the engines were advanced for T/O the tail raise at 40 knots. At 82 knots lift-off was a non event, there was no perceivable rotation or body angle change and the 3 just wafted into the air. Unless you had an engine failure, in which case matters became very exciting.


Imagine then the wonder for these men when jets arrived in the 60's. Even for the a sprog F/O the majesty of the take-off took one's breath away. The noiseless advance of the thrust; V1 around 120 kts; 'rotate' and slowly pull back on the yoke,'one cat dog, two cat dog, three cat dog-- 16 cat dog; as you rotated to 16degrees and V2.


Whoa- this body angle would stall the DC3. The jet age had arrived- these airplanes catapaulted into the sky. Everyone on board- passengers, cabin and technical crew experienced a metamorphosis. Within a minute the jet was approaching 320 knots speed and climbing at 2000'/minute. Unbelievable.


Here was a revolution in aviation. MEL- SYD in 70 minutes. Passengers were served a three course meal on fine bone china, choice of wines, liquers. No waiting for bags after arrival. Perhaps someone can point out where aviation has improved in the 40 years since. I can't see it.


So here's to the memory of the pilots in the pic, I honour their contribution to Australian aviation. Brisbane based pilots had their separate function I believe. Two additional names must be acknowledged. Lawrie Glenn, a most gentle and unassuming pilot, and George Sheppard, training captain. It was George who introduced the trainee to the Adelaide airport bottleshop and Hensche 'Hill of Grace'- $2.00 with crew discount. If I had the sense to lay down the hundreds of bottles instead of drinking them, I'd be rich today.


This pic appears with acknowledgement from TAA's monthly staff newsletter- 'Network', October 1983 edition. I believe that the photographer would have been Ian Russell. Well done Ian and thank you.

[Stationair8]

Thanks for that info TG, must have been a pleasure sitting behind that particular FO on a trip to HNL.

Somewhere over the Pacific,

TG, "Oh dear Captain the FO keeps on banging his head agianst the fire axe, what should we do"

Captain, "If it keeps him quiet and amused, let him continue"

TG, " coffee captain?"

The Ipec pilots would have found the DC-9 a step up in the performance from the Argosy.

[Captain Sherm]

Thanks for the photo Chimbu....made me cry, something normally only reserved for photos of Mrs Sherm, the Shermettes and the 777

[teresa green]

Well it actually went more like: F/O... so what were you blokes thinking A? so look at you now, A? Jeesus you were a pack of morons, A? Well we will never let the bastards beat us, A? Me: nod, nod, nod, (nothing drives people more nuts than have you agree with them) then peace for a while, then: F/O.. so you'r back down the bottom of the woodpile,A? I mean you blokes don't think you can muscle in on us, A? well its your own fault you know, me.... nod, nod, nod, :) Skipper.... why don't you shut the :mad: up. peace at last. And talking about nodding, where do you get the job standing beside any pollie as they prattle on and just nod. Watch them at night on tele there is always someone nodding, I would like to apply.

[Stationair8]

Chuckle thanks for that TG.

Like when they interview Rudd, why does every moron, halfwit, minder stand in the background and nod their flaming head? Could somebody please explain why?

Now back when you were on the DC-9 what how did TAA roster the crews, so many flying days and so many reserve days? Much back of the clock flying?

[maui]

Stationair8

Pure flying blocks and pure reserve blocks.

Blocking was 70-80 hours with average 75 (74?) over all flying blocks. (min guaranteed pay was 74 hours)

Reserve blocks I think were at a ratio of 1 : 8 flying blocks.

Virtually no back of the clock.

Blocks built by pilot reps, and subsequently vetted and approved by the company.

Days off and grey days normally between 9 and 15 per month, but could be up to about 18.

Bids for Captains closed and awarded before bids for F/O's closed. If you had sufficient seniority you could bid for a Capt, or to avoid a Capt or for a particular port, flight, or days off.

Was a good system.

Maui

[Aye Ess]

And the poor younger guys on reserve,would wait weeks for a tiny morsel of flying to come his way. Often with a Captain who also was on permanent reserve & who had a sim ride coming up,so he wanted to do the leg. If only one sector,the FO,read checklists,did the paperwork,then deadheaded home having not even touched the controls to wait weeks for another morsel.

[James4th]

Indeed, but I did object to him smoking his little cigars in the taxi at 5 in the morning after a HBA overnight!

Can we talk about the MD-95 or is that too much of a thread drift. It is a direct descendant of the Diesel and the for-runner of the 717.

Great photos of the 717:) Thanks.

[Godders7]

Speedbrakes were properly attached to jet aeroplanes by Fokker as rear clam-shell doors. I flew F28, F70, F100, B737(3/4/7/8series) in that order.

Engines were properly attached to the rear fuselage on Fokkers and speedbrakes were not part of the wing.

B737 has underslung engines and all drag devices on the wing (see Turkish Airlines B737-800 AMS accident). A Fokker 70/100 would have survived that failed go-around attempt; to prevent the accident, swinus aviatus required full nose-down elevator/horizontal stabiliser input by flight crew during a go-around from low level at low speed. Alpha-floor protection?

Full nose down elevator necessary while applying full thrust to Go Around?

Swinus Aviatus - the B737

[Al E. Vator]

TRANS AUSTRALIA DC9 30 MKY RF 070 3.jpg photo - Rob Finlayson photos at pbase.com (http://www.pbase.com/aviationimagesrf/image/99898442)

TRANS AUSTRALIA DC9 30 HBA RF.jpg photo - Rob Finlayson photos at pbase.com (http://www.pbase.com/aviationimagesrf/image/64964015)

[maui]

Aye Ess

We were all junior guys on reserve at various times, and we all had to endure that.
But in reality it normally didn't come to that as their were several senior guys who would bid reserve (Seagull), there was all the displaced/rec leave/training/ and substitution flying in open time.
Admittedly there were a few occasions when with a downturn flying was pretty scarce, but one only had to talk to the SRC to get a few sectors if it was necessary.
It was a good system if you knew how to use it.

Maui

[tsnake]

Chimbu,
Spot on, an Ian Russell photo of a fine group of men which took a lot of organising due to the copious intake of spiritous liquors, and Darkie Duffield being obdurant.
And I recall sitting opposite Peter Chapman and his son at dinner that night when they were assailed by an F/O, who shall remain nameless but his intials are Julian Hipwell, who glass in hand, interposed himself between father and son, turned to Chapman Senior and said "Why didn't you tell us your son has hollow legs too, you bastard" and staggered away.
When I queried Captain Chapman about his response to this verbal assault all he said was "But true".
Very fond memories indeed.

[teresa green]

Thanks for the picture Chimbu, last time I saw Jack Curtis, he was hanging out of a DC3, at some airshow, I saw Tom Fuller hanging off a shopping trolley last Xmas, (not that I can talk, so was I) and "Darkie" Darfield was I think the first aboriginal pilot and probably the only one that TAA employed, (he called himself that, now you would probably cringe) a nice bloke he was too. I seem to remember that the TAA bid system, came on line after Buck Brooksbank and Dick Holt went to the USA to study theirs, and thought it suitable, it worked well, though I often worked on a grey day, never minded though, kept the family eating. Another bit about TAA that not all know, the pilots and Flight Engineers who lived around the Mt. Macedon area started their own school. I was one of them. The kids had to travel 20k either way to a local public school, so under the leadership of Buck Brooksbank, we convinced the local authorities we needed a school closer to the mountain, we decided to make it a christian education but not belonging to any particular religion, so in a christian way, we stole, lied, threatened, and carjoled any money we could lay our hands on and Buck somehow managed to get into the then Premiers office (I think it was Henry Bolte) and weedled a considerable sum out of him. ( Buck could sell a fridge to a Eskimo) We bought what was then Clyde Girls School, but was still short of cash, so Buck went and saw Dame Elizabeth Murdoch and wallah, more money (she was a old girl from Clyde) we did all the work ourselves painting, carpentry, mowing, etc and when we went off to work other crew arrived and kept the job going, when we finally had the school ready, we invited the local Bishop to do the job, but I realised we had nothing for them to sit on, so I shot down to the local tip, found two chairs, the wife threw a cover over them, and his Lordship had no idea what he was sitting on! We started with 25 students (all had to bring their own chairs) and today it is the magnificent Braemar College with over 800 students, (it is worth googling just to see the beautiful buildings) and there are four houses each named after the pilots and flight engineers who really got the show on the road, and Dame Elizabeth Murdoch is still the patron, aged 100 years. So how many airlines can boast that their flight crews could achieve such a incredable result, and you know at the time I think we were all to stuffed to realise what we had done in the name of our kids education, but I look back on it now, and realise what a amazing bunch of blokes they were.:D:D

[boocs]

TG,
Was one of the Houses named after you at Braemar?
b.

[chimbu]

Darkie, an indiginous Australian?


Not sure about that. Certainly a character. As a habituee of St. Kilda's Musician's Club in the '70s I knocked around with (amongst others) Jack Varney, the banjoist. From him I learnt that Keith Duffield and he served in the wartime RAAF. After the war 'The Prince of Darkness' stayed on, joining the VIP squadron. While Jack was touring postwar Europe with Graham Bell's All Stars (to critical acclaim) Darkie flew Chiffley around the Commonwealth in a DC3. He must have joined TAA soon after that. Jack died last year aged 90, so I guess he had a full and happy life doing what he loved best.


Talking about George Sheppard and other fondly remembered Training Captains. They imparted much wisdom, both on and off the field of play. Simple things. Like making a modified sign of the Cross with the right hand, touching sequentially the forehead, crutch, breast and left wrist. This movement performed before leaving the flight deck was accompanied by the ritual chant “spectacles, testicles, wallet and watch” to ensure all were present or safely tucked away.


Failure to observe said ritual would sometimes result in startled passengers as the 'deshabille' pilot exited the washroom, displaying the un-adorned male form. To avoid embarassment, this check is best performed also, when exiting flight decks, hotel rooms, ladies chambers etc.


Chimbu

[Fantome]

Thanks for the picture Chimbu, last time I saw Jack Curtis . . .

On the dog and bone to JC y'day. Still living Snives. Sounds bright and cheery. Has put the racquet permanently back in it's press. Got the impression the flying kit likewise. Had a snarl or two about PS, his last employer.

[stable approach]

tsnake,
Did that F/O keep his clothes on that night?
I know a guy with the same initials who was famous for ending the night in the same uniform as he entered this world.

[James4th]

I flew with His Royal Darkness on a 3 day trip once and he took the whole trip to tell me a story (as was his wont)

Apparently he was flying missions out of Wewak (cv) late in WW2 and the Yanks had a Task force about to invade Tarawa. The Marines had left their "scramble nets" behind so couldnt get off their ships to the landing craft.

So Darkie was told to fly the nets in his bomber and drop them on the deck of the carrier that was attached to the fleet. As I remember the story had many twists and turns and back and forward tracking and we were on descent into MEL and he hadnt finished yet.

So when we were taxiing in I had to prompt him "Great Keith, but what happened to the bloody nets? Did you get them on the deck?"

"Better than that mate" he rumbled " Right down the ******* Funnel"

The nets went down the funnel and temporarily disabled the ship.

Of course I cant verify the accuracy of the story but hey when did that matter to the Great Story Tellers of the World.

[D.Lamination]

:cool:

Speaking of characters :
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss210/Ted_Striker/TAA/TAADC9VH-TJQ11-11-86.jpg

Who else had fun with Moose?

Also realllly enjoyed flying with a certain Capt. Adxxson who was always keen to dish out sectors after my 30 days on reserve.

[tsnake]

Stable Approach
I have no idea if that certain F/O kept his gear on. I am told that in the small hours on that night I was loud and disorderly and can not account for the method by which I was delivered from Essendon to my abode not too far from Victoria Park.

Chimbu
Darkie started his TAA career around 1948 spraying locusts in the Mallee with a DC-3 and ended up on a twin at the end, the A300. He reckoned he hadn't done too badly for a bloke who started his working life as an apprentice fitter/turner at Australian Portland Cement in Geelong.

[teresa green]

Boocs, there were far harder workers than I. Brain Jackson aka "rughead" was along with some banker or something the first to get it going. How Rughead managed to be a stoker, as well as Mayor of our little area, he somehow managed to do, multi tasking at its best.

[James4th]

Moose was a Goose! I'll say no more ....... as for the other mentioned ... I got my own back eventually I had the great fortune to have to check him on the Diesel toward the end and he didnt like it. Hahahahahahahahah! What goes round comes round A?

[Dark Knight]

These new fangled flying machines needed treating with a little care until one caught up with them. Thus we were presented with the High /Sink Rate manouvre both in the sim and in flight.

From memory commenced around 8,000' with flap 40 (50?) initiating a high sink rate with various turns to level out at 5,000' +/- 100/0'.

Only just tossed out my mudmap of the manouvre recently regretting I do not have it to post here - does anyone still have one?

Then there were the `Nev Grady Notes'; a series of comprehensive shorthand notes covering limitations, system basics, manouvres and simulator exercises the reading of which on the two hour deadhead flight BNE - MEL was generally sufficient study for every training & check simulator. (including the obligatorey two beers, dinner and split of red wine)

These notes were excellent and were added too, amended and expanded by various individuals with new editions produced for the B-727. They were taken overseas modified for other types, A-300, B-747 and often became sought after by expats and local of many airlines in several countries.

DK

[classygal]

Wow what fascinating reading. Yes Glitchy you were an ace as I flew with you in PNG but alas not on the mainland. These stories and others e.g. hosties (YES HOSTESSES) Traffic Officers, Refuellers, Baggage Handlers and all facets of the aviation industry have incredible stories to tell and should be put to book form. Some of us ex Hosties who did the PNG basing have written our memories and donated a copy to the Museum in Melbourne. We experienced an incredible time in aviation from prop through to jet and what great pilots we flew with. All of you, both Ansett and TAA were the creme-de-la-creme of the aviation industry. I know I am digressing but must say yes the DC9 was a super aircraft but from a hosties point of view that rear galley left a heck of a lot to be desired. Keep up the great work and yes I will put my hand up to help with the book...have just finished "Buggsy" Warrens story.

[animal Mk3]

I remember flying back on the 9 (pax) with my dad and Mick Davies CBR TAA Mgr?? 1975?? after a very long day on the Hill at the SCG watching Eng v Aus. The flight was cocka block full of rather joyous folk with much singing and frivolity. The old man, 32yr RAAF and previously OC Vung Tau during the war did the right thing as we were walking off the acft and put his head into the cockpit to thank the boys for their work. He was greeted with a lengthy lecture on the difficulty of flying this here contraption with all you I'll mannered louts signing and causing such a rukus back there. My father listened quietly and then informed the chap to "bugger off - why don't you try it while they are all shooting at you" and walked out. Jesus I laughed!!

I still make a point as a pax of poking my head in the door and thanking the boys or girls, thats if the triple bolted high security impregnable door has been opened!!!

They were fun to work as an ATC, the new stuff is great on departure "up and away!!" but the 9 could fix any arrival sequence - FL120 just on 13nm to touch for 35 @ YSCB +320kt G/S "you OK to make it from there?" "yep no problem" He was right!!!

[Slasher]

Slightley off topic but just wondering if anyone knows where "Madman" Madden (FO BNE in 89) is these days?

[Wiley]

Maddog is on the 340 with EK, Slasher.

[B772]

As this thread must be getting close to running out of stories re the DC9 it be remembered that the initial preference by TAA was for the BAC111. No doubt there was political pressure to buy the BAC111 snd not the DC9. Both airlines were slugged a further 7.5% duty when they purchased the DC9.

[Eastwest Loco]

B772

There was huge Government pressure on TN at the time to buy the BAC111, and there was in the 727 days with the Pubic Servants (no typo there) pushing the HSid Trident.

Both were dismissed as not being up to the standards/range/uplift capability of the DC9 and 727.

Best regard

EWL

[Eastwest Loco]

:}Isn't that what I indicated Ditz???:E

Thanks for pulling me up on the brain fade.

Any aeroplane that needs a 4th baby booster turbine to get it over the fence with a good load is a worry.

They chose correctly in both cases IMHO.

Best all

EWL

[CharlieLimaX-Ray]

Wasn't some pressure applied for TAA to buy the Sud Caravelle?

[Aye Ess]

http://i590.photobucket.com/albums/ss350/aye_ess/CadetsGraduate.jpg

[sixtiesrelic]

Slasher, Is the Madden you enquire about TAA or Ansett?

[Eastwest Loco]

Yes Charlie - TN was under marketing pressure (no Government input that I can remember to buy the Caravelle).

It was before TN was really ready to consider such a move, and well left in hindsight, even though it was a decent but shortish haul girl with a few problems.

Riley at EW was also pushed to buy the F28-1000 in to 60's but shied away from that. Seeing what happened to BAT when they had the temerity to get a Viscount may have spurred intelligent abstinence. Glom! The dark Empire's Darth Vader acquired them. The original - not the fat one.

I have the F28-1000 model presented to Mr Riley in my office, in MMA/Ansett colours with the title replaced by F28 on the tail and Fokker on the fuselage in place of the MMA/Ansett tags - Nice solid unit with a VDO clock in the base.

However we should realise that every commercial airliner in creation including the rather pretty Convair jet equipment was presented as a fix all to TN, AN and every other airline on the planet.

Best all

EWL

[Captain Sherm]

Ah that photo of young Andrew Rich takes Sherm's mind back many years and many memories ago.

Probably the finest pilot I ever met....Andrew was flying the -9 only a year later. We all did command training on the DC9 15 years later, having learned all we knew about flying from some of the finest pilots and airline builders the world has seen.The best training there was, both in the 15 years in the RHS and the command training itself.

Andrew had a great career after that. Post-'89 he went to Malaysian and was an instructor on the A300-B4. Then stints on the MD-11 in Europe and 767 in Japan. A fine man and a tribute to what a well managed cadet scheme can produce.

And just have a read in the article and you'll see Reg Bailey's name there. Is there a Director of Operations in Australia today that could hold a candle to him? Such men weren't perfect but they did great things and would never stoop to pit pilot against pilot.

[Stationair8]

Didn't TAA run the cadet course through the Royal Vic Aero Club and used a Piper Aztec for the CPL and IFR part of the course?

What happened to the rest of the cadets from that clipping?

[Captain Sherm]

They used Schutts, Royal Vic and Civil Flying School. CPL and I/R work done on two Aztecs, TGQ and TGP, ex-TAA PNG services. RVAC maintained them (not very well as they were always u/s). CPL test was done on the Aztec, mine with John Lindsay of the DCA.

Aerobatics were done on the Victa at Civil, Fuji at Schutts and Chippie at RVAC.

While Cadets we were given jump-seat passes each weekend to just watch (and pray that some F27 Captain would let you have a fly) so the young Sherm got to see the DC-9 very up close and personal. From the cadet classrooms at Essendon you could see the -9s rotate on the numbers (it seemed) on EN RW 26 and start that lovely sweeping right turn up to SBG or over on the 288 Radial to ADL.

[tsnake]

OK, I want to know where John Frearson is. He ownes me money!
And is Ron Boyle still riding his bike?

And speaking of the Caravelle it was Reg who wanted them. He was dead keen on getting jets on domestic routes but the French two-holer didn't have the legs for SY-PH or ML-PH. My information is that John Watkins and Reg Bailey - neck and neck IMHO as the creators of the TAA spirit - stayed cool and convinced all and sundry to wait for the Boeing tri-motor.
I recall being shown a hand-painted die-cast Caravelle in the 60s livery in the bowels of Franklin St in the early 80s.

[Wiley]

Isn't it funny how your memory plays tricks on you? I thought it was TAA who wanted the Caravelle, but it was forced to buy the Electra because AN had gone that route and the two airline policy required the use of similar equipment. I even thought there was a handover of an L188 (or the taking of a slot in the production line) from AN to TAA.

One thing I know - someone will set me straight on that point by close of business this day.

[PLovett]

tsnake,

I stand to be corrected here but I thought there was pressure from TAA to get the Caravelle but the two airline policy brought it all undone when Ansett said no :=. So all and sundry got the Lockeed Electra instead. :{

Now back to the 9. My last ride in a 9 (lets leave out the 717 for the moment) was one of Ansetts, 1981 Melbourne to Hobart. One of the hosties referred to it as "an old rattler". I didn't have the heart to tell her it was a lot more fun than one of them fancy 737s that I'd flown in from Canberra.:bored:

[tsnake]

Wiley,
Not sure about the Electras. Where are you Gordon Reid? If memory serves correctly the TN/AN L188s came down the line at Burbank one after the other and VH-TLA and VH-RMA entered service on the same day.
The only time I can recall aircraft actually being swapped was when TN was forced to take ex-ANA DC-6Bs and give AN Viscounts to even things up after Reg gobbled up ANA.

[Dog One]

Be a bit of problem for TAA to have to pick up the DC-6's from Ansett, from memory TAA didn't previously have the -6 on their licence. There would have been a lot of paperwork and training for little reward.

[zlin77]

I think that John Frearson can be found at JET* H.Q. in MEL, currently involved with The B787 introduction....

[Fantome]

I stand to be corrected here but I thought there was pressure from TAA to get the Caravelle but the two airline policy brought it all undone when Ansett said no . So all and dundry got the Lockeed Electra instead.

Yep, that's how it went. The chair of the Australian National Airlines Commission (TAA), Warren McDonald, came back from France in 58 or 59 all for the Caravelle. The TAA boffins concurred and Menzies was sweet talked but Reg won the day.

[Tarkeeth]

Try this for size: OF needed to dump 1049s and Lockheed offered decent trade in only IF "Australia" bought 10 or more Electras. Have forgotten how many we all ended up with.
Seem to remember neither AN/TN were that happy.

Back to the 9,having flown as pax "Standby/Subload/First Firm" etc on over 50 different A/c types over nearly 30 years late 50s --80s TNs 9s' were my all time favorite A/c. Many many sectors were flown as QF had limited ops and we were in bed with TN rather than AN.

The privilege of being invited to sit in the jump seat for landings on another carriers A/c
is still warmly remembered today.

[Al E. Vator]

Think it was like this: TAA wanted Caravelles but Reg Ansett, worried about the financial impact of the recently completed ANA takeover was worried that the jump to pure jets would be too big a simultaneous burden.

Robert Menzies gave Reg whatever he wanted, as the Liberal Party was philosophically opposed to TAA, (being a nationalized institution and Labour creation). Thus Reg preferred the less onerous step to the turboprop Electra, although some of the pro-British camp in Menzies' group wanted The Vickers Vanguard (and even Handley Page Herald) alternative!

Regarding the DC6's, again I think that Menzies disliked the advances that TAA had made via intelligent aircraft selection (Convairs, Viscounts etc) viewing these as putting Ansett at a disdvantage and as part of the Two-Airline agreement forced TAA to surrender a number of superior Viscounts in return for DC6's. It was one of these ex-TAA Viscounts that crashed into Botany Bay.

Happy to be corrected if my facts are wrong.

[A. Le Rhone]

Whose DC9 arrived first, TAA or Ansett's?

[Obie]

Whose 727 arrived first?... Ansett's or TAA?

[AlgernonAsquith]

This was on that newfangled modern YouTube thing:

YouTube - The Aircraft & Colours of TAA - Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZpaiLec4kY)

Quite enjoyed that.

[emeritus]

Whilst the story behind the DC6/Viscount swap has no relevance to the 9 it is interesting.
After I was cleared to the line in Viscounts in 63, I studied for my ATPL subjects at RMIT in Mel. Our lecturer for Nav n Flt Planning was Bill Kennedy, long time Nav Officer for AN.

The subject of the above came up in Flt Planning and he said the run ADL-PER was the longest Viscount run in the world. In fact we used a "Howgozit" chart which got a LOT of attention from the Capt. Most times we were only cleared to a/b KGL and if we had not used our 10% it just gave us enuff to get to PER.

I remember him saying that the Turboprop Viscount had better public appeal than the 6 but was creating problems for TAA on the ADL-PER sector. Pax on TAA would taxi past the AN 6 running up at ADL and would T/O first but on arr in PER the AN 6 would be already there curtesy of the ability to fly at 2500' with a much lower h/w.

After TAA had 1 or maybe 2 incidents of running out of fuel taxying in at PER the decision was made by someone to instigate the swap.Naturally the story was spun to be seen as AN getting the best of the deal when that was not the case.

It was a trip that could blow up in your face. The worst I had was in July of 64 with Mike Price. We were in an 800 and TAA had one of our 6's. Very strong winds forced us to refuel in Forrest as we could not even make KGL.
We had to operate as high as we could get and thus in the lower edge of a jetstream while our cousins were down at 2500' and probably carrying Meekatharra as alternate as well as holding!

By the time we arrived in PER the others were probably in bed after having a couple of beers.

Re the Caravelle..TAA were keen to get them. Not sure why RM preferred the L188 but as I remember DCA prefered the Electra because it involved less work/expense upgrading runways and the Govt of the day seemed inclined to favour AN in order that their 2 Airline Policy would succeed. Great days they were....the possibility to fly DC3/B170/F27/DC4/DC6/Viscount/L188/DC9/B727

Emeritus

[teresa green]

A flight attendant called the 9 "a old rattler"? Have her hunted down, tarred and feathered, and she was working on a 737???!! No class what so ever! The Nine, she was a lover to us all, the 737, oh dear, a handy little Volvo with hubcaps, does her job, but once a maggot, always a maggot, nobody would ever call the 9 a maggot, a little bitch yes, but never a maggot. A old rattler indeed, only a woman would say that.:(

[Eastwest Loco]

Obie

TN was first with the 727-76. The aeroplane was Tango Juliet Alpha and I was on the observation deck at Essendon (MEB) to watch her first arrival into Melbourne. Still remember the amazing roar of the reverst thrust.

As for the DC9, I cannot remember. Lost in the mists of time.

Best all

EWL

[RodH]

This story below was taken from Aviaition archives published in the " Airliner " Magazine and I believe it is correct

.
The first Boeing 727-76 for Trans-Australia Airlines was the 72nd aircraft off the production line at Boeing’s Renton facility in Seattle and registered as VH-TJA, was rolled out on July 24, 1964. Later named James Cook, VH-TJA made its first flight from Renton on August 25. Under the command of Capt. D. A. Winch (Flight Superintendent Training) and Capt. K. J. Fox (Boeing 727 Flight Captain), Juliet Alpha was ferried from Seattle to Melbourne via San Francisco, Honolulu, Canton Island and Nadi. It is interesting to note that it was not until delivery of its sixth and last 727-76 (VH-TJF) that TAA eliminated the technical fuel stop on the US West Coast and ferried aircraft direct from Seattle to the Hawaiian Islands.
On October 16, 1964 VH-TJA in company with Ansett-ANA’s first 727-77 (VH-RME) arrived over Melbourne, which was the headquarters to both airlines. Ansett-ANA had previously won the toss of the coin which allowed its aircraft to land first. Both 727s made several passes over the city before landing at Essendon Airport, heralding a new age in Australian domestic air travel.

[B772]

RodH. If my memory serves me correct TAA (Don Winch) won the toss to land first but due to a wind change the duty runway became the short N/S runway. As the 'cameras' were set up for a landing on the E/W runway Ansett-ANA (Arthur Lovell) decided to stick with the original plan despite the X/W and landed before Don Winch.

[B772]

I am surprised that there has been no mention of the VH-TJP incident at MEL on R/W 27 in 1978. Capt Mike Crooke and F/O Robert Lupton had a 'close shave' when they touched 192 metres short of the threshold.

The main landing gear struck and destroyed 6 high intensity approach lights. The bottom of the left engine cowl and a section of the lower aft fuselage as well as the right hand main gear were damaged by the impact.

3 mins before touchdown the IAS was 244 kts and at touchdown 171 kts

Due to the AFAP the cockpit audio record evidence was not available to the incident investigators.

[dijon moutard]

Dear all
lets get back to the dc-9 thanks !

Capt Mike Crooke was a dear friend of my father (Capt John Humphreys) and lets leave it at that about dredging up names and past incidents please !
by all means let us learn about past "experience's" and "armchair" expert's go elsewhere thanks !

like all jet aircraft the dc-9 and b727 all suffered when a stable approach was not performed and maintained ; my father would recall that it was a massive learning curve with respect to early configuration of the aircraft (so that you did not have high sink rates on final).

this was a common problem right across the world with the introduction of jet equipment where previously there had been only collective exprience with turb-prop aircraft .

you could not let these aircraft maintain "high sink rates" near the ground ; otherwise it would bite your backside !

cheers
dijon moutard :ok:

[ACMS]

Correct,,,,,,,,,,The Ansett ANA 727-100 ( RME ) landed first at EN.

( and so it should have !!! )

It was supposed to be TN first :p

[Led Zep]

TAA landed VH-TJJ at Essendon on April 13th '67 ahead of Ansett-ANA's VH-CZB.

[Al E. Vator]

Friend emailed me this yesterday, it's very good (volume should be up):

YouTube - The Aircraft & Colours of TAA - Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZpaiLec4kY)

[Fantome]

Beautiful job ChasKSmith. Even a glimpse of the Essendon VAR approach plate! Pity about the soundtrack.

[James4th]

This thread is really working! There are now two Diesel-9-30s on my local apron; all white with strange regos ....... I though maybe it was my over inventive imagination but other pilots and engineers can see them too.

I actually heard one of them before I saw her; do you remember to sound of a DC9 taxing in? It always was distinctive:- a whine behind whoosh is the only way I can describe it.

My crew, not to mention the boarding pax, were surprised to see their Capt leap out of his seat, rush to to boarding door and watch, misty eyed, as the old girl taxied in and shut down. (Whoosh stops, whine slows down to a whimper followed by the clackety-clack of the fan blades winding down)

Back in the cockpit my puzzled young F/O is looking, "What the ****", at me. I just turned and mumbled- "an old flame I still love dearly......"

He is none the wiser as he doesnt even know what kind of aircraft it is....

[sixtiesrelic]

"He is none the wiser as he doesnt even know what kind of aircraft it is...."
Gawd... that's as bad as the ones who don't know what a DC-3 is... too much sheltered life and silly bloody computer games.

[Aye Ess]

Thanks,James IVth,now you've got us all intrigued. Where is the local airfield,in Aus? Any markings or rego? Your description of the DC9 noise is spot on.

[James4th]

Sorry Chaps, I am not in Oz at the moment but in a far flung corner of a foreign field ....... (with apologies to Rupert Brooke who's WW1 poems I recommend to you all) ..... well actually it's not really a field as such... more of a sand pit actually:rolleyes:

I have found out what these -9s do:- they ferry VIPs in and out of Iraq and Afghanistan and they are South African registered. Which makes one wonder if you are a VIP why would you go there yourself when you could send one of your underlings?:confused:

[chainsaw]

James4th,

They'll be the ones doing the KBR contract. I last saw them in 2007 when they were being operated by Eastern Sky Jets. :ok:

[ACMS]

They can't be that important a VIP to be flying in an old DC-9 !! If they were indeed high up the food chain they'd be in a G550 :ok:

[Wiley]

I think you may find that those "VIPS" may be casualties. Way beck when, the USAF had all white medevac DC-9s with a military designation C-9.

See McDonnell Douglas C-9 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_C-9)

Don't know if they're still in service. (Possibly with Reserve or ANG unit?)

[ACMS]

C-9 Nightingales. One or two were x Ansett. About 18 are stored at Davis Monthan AFB in Tucson AZ. Do a search on the google Earth and you can see them sitting in the sun amoungst hundreds and hundreds of other a/c.

Quite a site to see. The Pima air museum conducts daily tours through the AMARG base, very worthwhile.

click here for their home page.

Pima (http://www.pimaair.org)

[TWOTBAGS]

US Navy still operate C9's in a transport/medivac role from Bahrain to some of the exclusive holiday destinations in the middle east:}

Occasionally you get one of the VIP ones in the polished and Blue/white livery....very specky:ok:

We were parked next to one on the north side apron between the DC8s a while back and got to chat to the crew, although they liked the old lady they were a bit peaved that they were meant to be getting 737NG but there was no money left in the pot so to speak.

Personally I would have stuck to the Diesel:E

One question though, why when they came onto the ramp did they shutdown with the reverser buckets open???

[chainsaw]

ACMS and Wiley,

The DC9s James4th was referring to were operating 'shuttles' to/from the places he referred to, for and on behalf KBR, and most, if not all, of the SLF on most of those flights weren't VIPs. Trust me!

[maui]

Twotbags

The buckets were deployed to reduce/prevent windmilling on long/overnight turnarounds.

M

[James4th]

and also to stop the sand/dust blowing in. There has been a lot of it about lately; Mrs Jimmie is sick of sweeping out the flat ....... and you cant see what colour my my jeep is for the muddy/dusty/sandy covering.

Those -9s come and go with only crew getting on and off; maybe they load/unload elsewhere?

BTW, if you look carefully at the C-9 you will see that there is no door where the forward cargo hold was. The whole cargo hold was pulled out and another centre fuel tank was inserted. I am not sure if it's capacity but it would increase the range somewhat A?

[B772]

Whilst not a TAA pilot Capt Vince Collins of AN flew the DC9 (ex Viscount) in command from early 70 to late 79 before he went to the B727. I think Vince held the AN record for the most number of DC9 hours. Some may remember Vince as Capt Cadbury.

[Wiley]

Vince was also known as "Clacker Collins" on the three holer, for his tendency to tweak the cruising speed (somewhat!).

[an tragic]

An absolute gentleman. I remember on many occasions buying chocolates from Vince in the mid 70's at Tulla. Also remember the other "syd based" guys Les Butterworh, Jack Heyns and Dave Miller from ADL

[James4th]

What is the highest number of DC9 hours we have got fellahs? I did 8 years as F/O, 8 years as skipper and 4 years on 717. I havnt added up the hours but I will do. It would be great to know how many hours we have between us all.

[teresa green]

James I will put my hand up for about 2,000 hrs, cannot check at the present time, as we have packed up, as the missus has decreed we are moving, due to relocation of sprogs and grandsprogs. I have spent most of my life moving due to the whim of the Airlines and one small matter in the late 80s, and I am STILL doing it. Onya Jetstar!

[D.Lamination]

:{How come our thread has been moved to "history and nostaglia"? All this stuff is vital info. for today's pilots.

How else would they know that aviation used to be fun:} - before the avalanche of stupid rules we live under today.

I demand that that this thread be restored to the main forum by the 5th of April ...............oops CASA's new AOD calander has abolished that date - along with a host of others.
:suspect:

It's enough to drive a man to drink:confused:

[teresa green]

Because the young blokes think that us old fossils and our clanking ol aircraft are BORING, not like their glass cockpits, super technology, hubcaped, well behaved aircraft, which are far more interesting, as we probably thought about piston aircraft, when the drop dead beautiful nine arrived. Sadly for them they will also become fossils, and it is going to very hard to brag about their days on a (wait for it) 737, or a 747, ho hum, no, we have everything to be grateful for, we flew REAL aeroplanes, not something that only requires you to feed it 20cent pieces to fly, leave em to it, we were the lucky ones.:D

[B772]

James4th. If it was not for the low productivity of pilots in Aust before 1990 you would possibly have been the most experienced DC9 pilot in the world. In my humble opinion 8 years as an F/O and 8 years in command on the DC9 is a bit of a waste of a career.

[CharlieLimaX-Ray]

Nothing like watching and listening to the Ipec DC-9 arriving in YMLT off a DME arrival at 3am, followed by the departure 30 minutes later on a very cold morning. Didn't those JT-8D's make the windows rattle ansd shake.

[Aye Ess]

A loud DC9? No. They were the "whispering T-Jets" according to the ads of the 60s. The only time they were whispering is when they were stopped overnight. Even the apu was a little screamer.

[James4th]

B772, you can add to that 4 years on the 717 as well! But why was it a waste of a career? I couldnt get a command until 1980 so I stayed on the Diesel until I got an F27 and did 2 years on it until a -9 command came up. After that I could have left the Girl for the Maggot around '85 but why would I do that? I had almost top bid on the -9 and just about wrote my own roster etc etc ... I aimed to be the last man on the Diesel but a certain event we must not mention intervened ....... and I left our fair shores with only a DC9 endorsement.....

The ultimate degradation was:- the only job I could get was on a 737-200, yeech! I spent a decade in the wilderness of exile. picked up an A320 rating and bummed around for various airlines until I heard a whisper of something called a B717; WTF is that I thought? When I found out, I was back in flash beating on the door of Impulse. So I was reunited will my favourite girl again. (Mrs Jimmie wishes I felt about her the same way:))

The only waste I can see is I should have left the Diesel for the Maggot a year before, errr, that year, but then where would that have led? Probably to Malaysia with the rest of the boys and my life could have turned out quite differently. For instance if the DC-9/717 was still available to me I would still be flying it.

Who can fathom the twists and turns of fate and the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.........:confused:

[B772]

James4th. Thanks for the respectable reply. Upon hindsight I was a little cruel in my comments.

Yesterday is history and we can not change that. Based on your reply you may have been in the wrong place at the wrong time to experience the big time. It is also fair to say that if you have enjoyed what you have done and where you have done it with the support of your family you are in a better position than most of our former colleagues.

[tornadoken]

tk's Airliner Marketing Course Module 101. Despite 34 laudatory pages here by drooling swains, why was DC-9 outsold by 737?

Turbojet types, Caravelle and Comet 4B, had costs p.available seat-mile at or below revenue p.ASM, so profitable only with United, on its densest routes, and v. prop. types. (ex-Vickers) BAC in 1960 launched turbofan 111/200 with Freddie Laker's Br.United A/L (whose motive was to barter patriotism for an Oz-style Two Airlines Policy), and pitched it to Viscount/Vanguard launch customer TCA and to Viscount customer KLM, both DC-8 operators. Douglas then launched DC-9/10 by buying Avro/Malton and putting the wing there, thus snaring TCA, and by committing to reliability/Product Support to KLM >DC-8. BAC shilly/shallied over Product Development and lost TA/AN to DC-9/30 on boring costs and response.

Boeing entered last, snaring Viscount/707/720/727 operator LH by tailoring 737-100 to their Spec, investing in long-lead items like landing gear axles in Economic Order Lots to offer fixed price/early delivery, and polishing a Product Support/AOG service that became benchmark. (QF 707-138 same). MD-80/big JT8D did not match the numbers of 737-300/CFM-56/3. MD-90/717 was tenderly euthanised, seen as cannibalising 737NG. Airbus Industrie, learnt, developing an A320 Offer to match 737s'. And it's the Offer, the numbers, that matters, not the friendliness of the product. You buy Volvos, tank-like, 'cos they go on, and on...and on, like the wife. Same in air carriers: Chief Technical Officers do not buy fillies to gleam; Chief Financial Officers buy hacks to sweat.

[Aye Ess]

Fellow DC9 lovers,today is April 13. Today is exactly 42 years ago that VH-CZB & VH-TJJ arrived in Australia. In 1967 Harold Holt was PM,decimal currency was only just over 1 year in operation,man still hadn't landed on the moon,colour TV was still many years away,waste transfer stations were called dumps & indigenous Australians were known as aborigines. Voting age was 21,yet 19 year old kids were being sent to Vietnam. Anyhoo,the DC9 was certainly a great addition to the fleets,lasting 22 years. Great aeroplane.

[James4th]

Tornadoken, what was your point? I must be thick but I couldnt understand a word you typed ........

Aye Ess, I didnt know that, but I am now on my knees thanking Donnie Douglas for the DC9 and making my day, month, year and career .....

[DCDriver]

As a pom ex-9 driver I've loved reading this thread! First flew the DC9 in 1979 as a F/O, coming off BAC111's - that's when I learned that a DC9 on one goes better than a 111 on 2! Years later got my first command back on the deisel '9, I was really lucky to have done so.
And yes, we got up to the same sort of stuff as you boys did. Once had an RAF Tornado pilot on the j/seat in a DC-9-15, we were light and kept 6000fpm up to FL250. His comment was that the DC9 went better than his Tornado.
Descent in icing required power on to satisfy the bleed demand so you had to fly "power against drag" (speedbrakes) which always struck me as inelegant - so in the days before 250kt below 10k we would descend thru' the ice levels at Vne to keep the RAT up above +6, thus keeping the wings & tail clean.
Wonderful, classic point-and-go jet - I also flew the MD80 which was lovely, but not as flexible as the '9 in terms of what you could do with it.
Spent 25 yrs on Donald Douglas' lovely jets before they were all taken away and I had to go on the Peugeot (Airbus) for a frontal lobotomy:ugh::ugh:
Thanks for the memories!

[Stationair8]

Who owns or operates the MD-80's out of SE Qld?

[much2much]

the baby 9s possibly the best time of my life,no slats a real rocket ,need i say more,dc driver i d forgot about that rat/epr gauge,mind forgot it in the sim quite often as well tut tut,

[WMUOSF]

Both AN & TN had the same cabin configuration in the DC9.
100 seats all economy but the first 5 rows were convertible, to make a 4 across row for first class. Seating 1AC 1DF etc

[WMUOSF]

Vince had many humerous tricks.
Shut down both engines abeam gate ten at the Ansett terminal Tullamarine, coast to his assigned gate, and then yell "Hey" at the daydreaming Traffic Officer.
Talking to Newlyweds Sunday morning in the departure lounge, asking where they were going for the Honeymoon and then producing a Shell Roadmap and asking for directions.
Captain Cadbury was a true Gentleman and liked by all.
Never missed a seat home to Sydney, and insisted staff ride in the jumpseat.

[B772]

Thread drift but Vince Collins expressed a wish upon retiring of doing some DC3 flying and perhaps instructing. Does anyone know of Vince's whereabouts.

[Stationair8]

Must be a few more DC-9 stories to be told, don't be shy or bashfull.

[James4th]

Yes there will be more as soon as I have time to use this computer for pleasure and relaxation instead of Training Pilot Rosters, SIMs etc etc .........

[Ghost_Who_Walks]

Apologies if it's been mentioned in one of the other 33 pages, but I recall a certain "press-to-test" light on the effoh's side with untold F/O fingerprints burned into the glass.

What was it - gear door light or something? Why was it hot? I recall adding my melted fingerprint to it but can't recall why.

[James4th]

Gentleman, this is actually Mrs. Jimmie writing and I do apologising for gate crashing but I just had to tickle the keyboards and thank you all so much for this wonderful thread. You have made me laugh with all your fantastic and oh so funny politically incorrect stories (keep them coming!) your amazing OH&S less tales, (keep them coming!) baffled me with all your technical talk (okay, keep them coming too) and you have made me cry with your outpourings of love not only towards a wonderful time in aviation history but towards a machine that obviously set your hearts and adrenalin a flutter. There have been times when I have walked into our Ops room at home and found James4th either laughing hysterically from a story or silently crying over some wonderful memory that one of you had brought back to him and for that I thank you too.

I was not part of the airline industry, until a certain star shone on James4th and myself 5 years ago, and it was then that I first started to hear about all the wonderful times and adventures that went with flying the old girl, and all of your stories in this magnificent thread have added to my DC9 education. I was lucky to have had a stint at being an “air hostess” (albeit a short one due to James bringing me to this last outpost of Empire) but after hearing all these stories I so wish it had been in your time and flying the old girl (whom I am not one bit jealous off by the way!).

It is a pity that time marches on and things change, and sometimes not always for the better, but your stories and memories will live on and hopefully the younger ones gets to hear them and know of the wonderful times you all experienced and to learn what it was like in the “good old days”. Teresa Green I agree whole heartedly agree with you, you flew the REAL aeroplanes, but may I add to that, gentleman, YOU were the REAL pilots.(With no offence to the newer ones of course.)

I would give one of James’ testicles to be a fly on the wall at a DC9 gathering and if I am ever lucky to do so gents, the first round is on me. Pleeeeaaasseeee someone put these stories down on paper.

Gents, I dips me lid to you ..and as they say in the classics, Nostalgia ain’t what it used to be.
Mrs Jimmie xx :D

[Fantome]

I would give one of James’ testicles to be a fly on the wall


Doesn't the poor sod come home knackered enough? Be very careful what you wish for when fairy godmothers are lurking.

[dogcharlietree]

Well said Mrs J. I'm pleased that a "better half" can share and appreciate our great times. :ok:

[GE90115BL2]

I know this is about the DC-9 but I came across this TWA 727-200 flight sim on youtube using an x TWA 727-200 cockpit.

It's pretty good.

YouTube - PROJECT 727 - PART I - BOEING 727-200 COCKPIT TOUR (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEyOP_pb3gQ&feature=related)

Now maybe they could make it a TAA or Ansett one? that would be good:ok:

[GE90115BL2]

Just bringing this back to the top..........................:ok:

[James4th]

Dont worry fantome, I have a spare (almost new) pair hanging in the closet; you never know when they might be needed these days!

Cheers,

Jimmie,

[Fantome]

Gentleman, this is actually Mrs. Jimmie writing and I do apologise for gate crashing but I just had to tickle the keyboards and thank you all so much for this wonderful thread. You have made me laugh with all your fantastic and oh so funny, politically incorrect stories, (keep them coming!) and your amazing OH&S less tales, (keep them coming!)


c'mon . . .. . not right, refusing a lady.

[Fantome]

However, when you managed to keep up with her, the -9 became a real joy. Four sectors SY-CB-SY-CB-SY, resulting, often as not, in not much more than two hours to add to the log book, could be quite a workout. You knew you'd mastered the beast when both pilots managed to eat their breakfast - separately - on the same sector, with a 35 departure from CB and a straight in aproach (R/W 07) in to SY. (I only ever managed this once, and remember the captain's name to this day, and I have to admit, it involved scoffing my meal down at a very ungentlemanly rate! The captain handed the hostie his tray at about 5,000' on finals for 07 at Sydney.)
A Wiley post, back on page 9. Puts me in mind of a bloke I used to fly with, who in later years was flying round Europe. In the earlier time, Jim could not, to put it mildly, abide our C/P, Colin, a pedantic, painful person with less personality than a dial tone. Anyway, there's Jim and his F/O, also from the old firm, screaming into the circuit, somewhere like Madrid, and Jim's still got his tray on his lap, finishing his lunch. F/O, doing it all virtually single-handed, says 'Eh Jim, what would be saying to Colin if he was in the jump-seat now? ' 'Pass the pepper, Colin.' (Note - Not their real names.)


We're losing something from aviation with all the automation and regulations. It's like eating fast food at a plastic dining table. It's just not the same as the individuality expressed in a home cooked meal and a wooden table. Too late to reverse the trend, even if we wanted to, but it's nice to reminisce.

. . . from Lodown, on page 58

[Fantome]

http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww320/rampdoggie/EWASkylinemagazine.jpg?t=1250406141 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:void%280%29;)

Nowt to do with the 9, but it does belong in the nostalgia bin..

[B772]

A former Ansett DC9 Captain who retired in 1975 (approx.) R A (Bob) Bennett is now 94 years young and still going strong attending lunches etc.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

This thread needs to be back on Downunda/Godzone...I forgot how much of a good read this thread has become...great ride guys:ok:

Keep it going. If ever there is a book in this, put me down for a hard cover first edition:ok:

[Stationair8]

I have started a thread on the Ansett/TAA Fokker Friendship in the DG section, should stir up a few memories!

[Pilots daughter]

This is my first post so trust you experts out there will forgive any transgressions I might make.
My dad was Doug Huff and he flew a variety of aircraft from just after the war through to the mid 80,s with TAA. He is no longer with us having passed away in 2000. Would love to hear from anyone who knew my father or who perhaps flew with him and who could tell me things that Dad would never have told me!
Thanks,
Debbie Huff
PS He was a wonderful Dad

[A. Le Rhone]

Not a DC9 but the first 727....
British Pathe - AUSTRALIA HAS NEW JET FOR PASSENGER SERVICE aka AUSTRALIA: NEW JET PASSENGER SERVICE (http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=70241)

[CharlieLimaX-Ray]

Must be a few more stories out in Ppruneland?

[Concorder]

I remember one (nameless) Captain who, when told of skin lifting on top of a wing, merely got a hammer, climbed on top of the wing, gave it a few belts, then said 'aircraft's OK, we're going'!

[Concorder]

do you mean6 x 727-100s?
RMD,E,F,R,S,T?

[Concorder]

wasn't there also an F27 FNL from memory in ASP that was hijacked?

[Stationair8]

Ansett F-27 was hijacked at Alice Springs in the mid 1970's.

Wonder what the DC-9 would have looked like in the Ansett colour scheme that was unveiled in the 1980's?

[Fantome]

11th August 2008,)
bushy

Another drama that happened here in the days of the F27s was the attempted "hijack" that occured on an inbound F27. The hijacker demanded that a light aircraft meet the F27 on arrival, and bring a parachute for him.

Ossie Watt was the CFI at the aero club. He duly brought a Cessna to meet the F27. He also had a "navigator" who was a policeman.

The hijacker came out with a very unhappy flight attendant. He was shot and killed on the tarmac.

[D.Lamination]

Thanks to a bit of searching on British Pathe (prompted by A. Le Rhone #693 above :ok:)

Here are some shots of a TN DC9 and other equipment in the opening of this film - It was "Angus McMillan" - Which one was that (TJJ?)

British Pathe - PRESIDENT SARAGAT IN AUSTRALIA (http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=71963)

:D

[Concorder]

No Angus McMillan was TJL.

[Concorder]

No...delamination...TJL was Angus McMillan
TJJ was Edmund Kennedy

[A. Le Rhone]

Google Image Result for http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/3/5/3/1275353.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/3/5/3/1275353.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.airliners.net/photo/Ansett-Airlines-of/Douglas-DC-9-32/1275353/L/%26tbl%3D%26photo_nr%3D9%26sok%3D%26sort%3D%26prev_id%3D1275 354%26next_id%3D1275352&usg=__tmvmy3LNQOZK7RVidDDNCeJEg5Y=&h=695&w=1024&sz=326&hl=en&start=74&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=45TKszh46Cz4YM:&tbnh=102&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3DTAA%2BDC9%26start%3D63%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26cli ent%3Dsafari%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Den%26ndsp%3D21%26tbs%3Disch:1)

[Stationair8]

Wouldn't recognise it as Canberra, a lot has changed over the years!

[Dora-9]

The curved roof hangar on the RHS is now at Caboolture, Qld....

[A. Le Rhone]

Imageshack - 1972airport.jpg (http://img25.imageshack.us/i/1972airport.jpg/)

[A. Le Rhone]

Apologies if this BNE picture already posted:

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/3369/brisbaneairport.jpg

[A. Le Rhone]

And what very nearly was, instead of the Douglas DC9
Google Image Result for http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/0/9/8/1372890.jpg (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/0/9/8/1372890.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.airliners.net/photo/Sud-Aviation/Sud-SE-210-Caravelle/1372890/L/%26tbl%3D%26photo_nr%3D24%26sok%3D%26sort%3D%26prev_id%3D137 2891%26next_id%3DNEXTID&usg=__BC8cxtDUqMlJDGvh8HSR_UKqCY0=&h=777&w=1200&sz=250&hl=en&start=9&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=zvWXv-PPur0BKM:&tbnh=97&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3DCaravelle%2BEssendon%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26clien t%3Dsafari%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Den%26tbs%3Disch:1)

[PLovett]

ALR, don't think it was nearly instead of the DC-9.

As I understand it TAA wanted to introduce the Caravelle as a follow on from the Viscount. However, in the totally regulated two airline policy days Ansett didn't want to go jet and a compromise was found with the Lockheed Electra.

Australia didn't get to go jet until the introduction of the Boeing 727 which was followed by the venerable diesel 9.

[A. Le Rhone]

Yes you're correct PLovett.

Interesting article from 1960 on exactly this matter. Lucky we didn't get the Airspeed Ambassador!

taa | government | electra | 1960 | 2489 | Flight Archive (http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1960/1960%20-%202489.html)

[Fris B. Fairing]

Australia didn't get to go jet until the introduction of the Boeing 727 which was followed by the venerable diesel 9.

Not quite correct. The first Australian civil jet was the Qantas 707-138, the first of which arrived in Sydney on 2 July 1959. The 727 was indeed the first domestic jet.

Rgds

[PLovett]

Sorry Fris, I was referring to domestic only. Should have made that clear.:ouch:

[NQFlyboy]

Hey! Don't forget Proserpine and I think, for a time in the early 80's, Hamilton Island too.

[NG_Kaptain]

Love this thread, flew the DC9 and MD83 for fifteen years out of the Caribbean. Spent three years on the 707, we had a pair of ex Qantas 707's. We never referred to our Boeings as 707's, we used to call them 138's or 227's or 351's. I do get to fly to your shores now with my new employer on a French product into BNE, MEL and SYD.

[Brian Abraham]

Lucky we didn't get the Airspeed Ambassador!
Three of the type were operated by Butler Air Transport and inherited by Reg when he took them over. Promptly got rid of for being an orphan type (returned to the UK). Beautiful aircraft. Photo from the Ed Coates collection. You may recognise the Essendon water tower above the nose.
http://www.edcoatescollection.com/ac1/austb/vhbuk.jpg

[Fantome]

RECENTLY ON 'TECH LOG' in a thread on the MU-2 -


20th May 2012
sevenstrokeroll
Richard Head

DC9
earlier in the thread, someone mentioned the DC9 ...I flew it for more than 10 years and I loved it. The best plane I have or will ever fly.

When I got hired at my airline (at the time the largest DC930 operator in the world) our vice president of flying came in and said he was a rocket man and didn't care for the boeing. He then went on to say they called the DC9 the rocket.

I was disappointed at first being assigned to the DC9 while others got the 737.

BUT after flying both the 737 and the DC9 there is no comparison. The DC9 was and is called THE LAST PILOT'S AIRLINER and whoever said that was right on.

I could write about the DC9 for hours...but it is a wonderful flying plane. I had many more maintenance issues in the 737. The DC9 flew like a fighter according to one F15 driver that flew with me.

IF I HAD as much money as that kid with facebook, I would buy the rights from boeing and start buidling them again...I wouldn't lose money on em !!!

[sevenstrokeroll]

First, I haven't had time to read the whole thread. But I do love the DC9 very much. I didn't fly it in Australia, flew it up in the USA for the largest DC9-30 operator in the world (at the time).

Someone mentioned the chatter of the speedbreak on landing...I know what you mean...and those landings were wonderful. Often, our guys would elect to manually deploy the spoilers on landing to try to smooth out the landing...they would call it a ''hand job''.

The Flight director was a work of art...

The plane was wonderful...the heritage of Douglas was a great thing.

I flew it as copilot for ten years and upgraded to captain on the 737-200...what a terrible dissapointment in an airplane! But I think all planes would be a dissapointment to someone who loved the 9.

We called it many things...pocket rocket was one ( I saw someone else call it that here)...also the Diesel 9 and simply rocket. WE did CRWOBAR approaches...simply put, if you dropped crowbar over the airport, we could beat it to the runway! ATC loved us for doing the impossible.

AS much as i hated the 737, I loved the DC9 more. Sadly, our airline retired them.

I understand DELTA acquired about 30 DC9's from NorthWest airlines and has not found a good replacement for the type, so they keep flying.

I'm looking forward to reading the whole thread.

No one understands what a great plane this is unless you flew it! Even the paint in the cockpit was better than boeing! A soothing blue green, instead of a gray like boeing has. The radar was better, the noise level in the cockpit was so low you weren't sure the engines were running unless you checked the steam gauges.

IF I WAS SUPER RICH (bill gates rich) I would buy the rights to this plane and build them as they were originally built , not the 717, and I would sell them at a competitive price and would put the others in this class out of business.

AND THEY WOULD always have the ventral stairs and the forward stairs!!!!!!

[PLovett]

I know its not TAA but this clip still encapsulates the joy of flying for me (despite being taken by SLF). :ok:

Alitalia MD80 take off at dawn - YouTube

[sevenstrokeroll]

gentlemen, thanks for a great thread

If I may, here are a couple of stories from north of the equator!

One guy would get out of the captain's seat, move it and allow access to the E&E compartment, which as some would remember, allow access to the ground.

So, he would get out of the plane before the jetbridge came up, clamber down ( a skinny pilot ) and run up the stairs outside the jetway...well, the flight attendants would open up the cockpit door and see that the captain was gone

and when they opened up the main cabin door he would pretend to be out of breath and say: I had to run to catch up with you from Pittsburgh!

Also, sadly, I was present when one of our planes crashed in Charlotte , North Carolina, USA. We were parked at the gate the ill fated plane was scheduled to come into. I watched the storm approach the field...I've never said this before or since...while doing the walk around on my plane I said...THAT STORM HAS EVIL IN IT...very green clouds. Ran into my plane to monitor ATC...storm approached, shook our plane at the gate...NO WARNING FROM ATC to planes on the approach. Lightning...heard the plane announce a go around and then ATC scrambling to try to raise them on the radio...I ran out and saw the smoke coming up from the crash. Sadly, during the go aroundthe pilots did not go to full goaround power and were late going to firewall power. Would it have mattered? who would know?


I met the captain as he jumpseated a year later...shook his hand...filled with sweat...I had made a PIREP of windshear and he said, why bother? No one cares.

sort of sad. and our planes had windshear alerting system...but we found out afterward that if you were in a 15 degree bank or more, it didn't work.

We use to use flaps 40 all the time, but flaps 50 when we wanted a really short landing. We got noise reduction kits and couldn't use flaps 50 anymore except in emergency.

our shortest segment was elmira new york, usa to binghamtom new york...less than 40 statue miles...4000 feet.

our climb profile was 250, till 10,000', then 290 to cruise...but we always went much faster...on our last leg home, we did clacker climb, clacker cruise, clacker descent, and then 250 to the marker. We used GHP for the engines....GET HOME POWER. Easily cruised above .8mach. Sometimes got aileron buzz.

I saw one guy put the reversers out in flight (20,000feet)...no problem.

some guys pulled the reverse just as the wheels hit the ground.

I remember the trim knobs and hiding pornography there

IF YOU EVER SEE a movie called, the PILOT, with actor Cliff Robertson, flying a DC8, the crew all look at the trim knob cover and laugh...you knew what was going on there!!!!!


great plane...many more stories, but that's it for now.

I do want to remind you all that the construction of the DC9 was much stronger than the 737...it had finger laps and you would never popped the top like the 737 in hawaii.

[Al E. Vator]

The Aircraft & Colours of TAA Rapid - YouTube

[Aye Ess]

WOW Al E. Vator,great history there. Ah,excuse me. I think I have something in my eye.

[Al E. Vator]

197303 002 TAA T Jet at Townsville | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/87791108@N00/2533099391/)

[Al E. Vator]

And wouldn't it climb beautifully on 1 engine at 42 degrees OAT in Alice Springs:

http://grcimagenet.grc.nasa.gov/images/archive/aircraft/dc9_1h.jpg

[sevenstrokeroll]

when ATC says: EXPEDITE CLIMB...WE EXPEDITE

[Al E. Vator]

And this fellow has some excellent TAA DC9 (and other a/c) Photographs on his website.

TRANS AUSTRALIA DC9 30 HBA RF 078 11.jpg photo - Rob Finlayson photos at pbase.com (http://www.pbase.com/aviationimagesrf/image/139939079)
TRANS AUSTRALIA DC9 30 HBA RF.jpg photo - Rob Finlayson photos at pbase.com (http://www.pbase.com/aviationimagesrf/image/64964015)
TRANS AUSTRALIA DC9 FLIGHT DECK HBA RF 94 1.jpg photo - Rob Finlayson photos at pbase.com (http://www.pbase.com/aviationimagesrf/image/71804873)


Almost as realistic as Aye Ess's paintings!

[Al E. Vator]

Getting silly now:

About that marginally exaggerated Rate of Climb:

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h61/AgentX20/JC%20Wings/DC9-TAA2004.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h61/AgentX20/JC%20Wings/DC9-TAA2001.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h61/AgentX20/JC%20Wings/DC9-TAA2005.jpg

[9-er]

A fellow DC-9 driver sent me the link to this thread. I owe him a crate of whatever tipple he fancies, what a great read!

I've been lucky enough to fly the DC-9 in 5 variants (-14, -32, -34CF, -82 and -83 in that very order believe it or not!) and it's been a torrid love affair throughout. The Baby Nine was an awe-inspiring little rocket, the sort of plane that you'd find yourself flying from the aft toilet on your first few flights, so far behind her were you! I actually flew serial number 4 as recently as 2009. She is permanently grounded now, sadly.

The -32 was perhaps the best handling one, perfect in every flight regime and a little more docile than the -14 (well, as docile as a DC-9 can be!). My experience of the -34CF was brief, just some training and 4 sectors freelance helping out a fellow operator that was short of crew. She had -17 engines! We took off empty from Dar-es-Salaam and had to vectored well west of our intended route at first because the 737-700 in front couldn't keep his rate of climb high enough to stay above and ahead of us, causing ATC some consternation. We still beat the 737 into Nairobi despite being initially vectored almost 20 miles west of our intended track, having taken off about 3 minutes behind him.

In my opinion, the MD-80 series took everything that was great about the older DC-9's and enhanced it all for us with the fancy autopilot/autothrottle system, as well as the extra poke from the bigger engines.

And what a handsome family of airplanes...

I've also flown the 732 and 733. No disrespect to Boeing, but for me the DC-9 is a better aircraft from a pilot's point of view. Love it!

[A. Le Rhone]

TAA DC-9's here (plus many others too)..

The Aircraft & Colours of TAA - Part Two - YouTube

[Aye Ess]

Thanks A. Le Rhone....that was good. Certainly an elegant way of travel back then when pax got dressed up to fly.

[autoflight]

How about a 6 minute turnaround in Rocky with pax on and off plus a little refuelling, or 300K for 50NM Brisbane to Gold Coast and both pilots had breakfast.

[Stationair8]

Thought I would bring this back to the top.

[flarepilot]

9 er

God Bless you. Few of us know the pleasure of the 9.

flew it for 10 years...then went to the 737...what a piece of crap compared to the 9.

I actually feel sorry for airline pilots who have never flown the 9 ( and yes, the 30 series is my fave)

for years I had heard it was the last pilot's airliner...and now I understand.

our boss when I got hired addressed our new hire class and said something like...I know some of you guys like boeing, but I like the rocket

the rocket being the 9.

[Aye Ess]

My painting....

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a401/alan_spears/AnsettDC9taxijpeg_zpsa071ab94.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/alan_spears/media/AnsettDC9taxijpeg_zpsa071ab94.jpg.html)

[Dora-9]

Aye Ess - a brilliant, atmospheric painting.

You're going to kill me for saying this, but CZA was the only DC-9 in the Ansett fleet to have three pitots on the upper nose, just visible in the photo (the centre one is further aft, close to the windscreen). Harder to see, but it also had an extra set of spoiler panels, which were riveted shut....

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/Blithering/0240842_zpse0dc216a.gif (http://s10.photobucket.com/user/Blithering/media/0240842_zpse0dc216a.gif.html)

[Aye Ess]

Thanks Dora-9....I used to fly the TAA (Australian Airlines) DC9 and in the ground school we did hear stories of the mystical 3rd pitot tube,which went the same way as the DC9 flight engineers. Anyhow,the painting sold a while ago to a lady who just liked the art and I don't think would even know the difference between a pitot tube and a pilot tube.

Here's another painting,bought by an ex Ansett DC9 drver...

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a401/alan_spears/AnsettDC9cruise.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/alan_spears/media/AnsettDC9cruise.jpg.html)

[Dora-9]

Hi Aye Ess:

I think it was the only DC-9 of the 24 in Oz to have this feature, but I can't remember what it was for.

Great paintings!

[Aye Ess]

Stretching my memory back to the groundschool I think it was an 'alternate' (selectable) pitot in case of blockage of one of the others.....

One more painting...

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a401/alan_spears/AnsettDC9jpeg_zps3b930f19.jpg (http://s1032.photobucket.com/user/alan_spears/media/AnsettDC9jpeg_zps3b930f19.jpg.html)

[Stationair8]

As always Aye Ess, great art work!

Must be a few 9 stories that can be shared by the old boys!

[Flava Saver]

This deserves a bump up in 2020. Need some feel good stuff again!

[descol]

Pruners - found this re TAA - hope it uplaods

https://i.postimg.cc/3rc9Qbsn/taa.jpg (https://postimg.cc/QVccpSxT)

[washoutt]

Beautifull poster, balm for sore eyes. You made my day, Desco.

[Terry Dactil]

Mmmmm ... memories
They were the great days :ok:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x552/ansett_2__4d8b2b0cd006cf83a2c30eb6a6675835d70b81be.jpg

[descol]

More - particularly for terry D - see note for first "FLIGHTERS"

https://i.postimg.cc/1fM2z5G4/1ta.jpg (https://postimg.cc/1fM2z5G4)

https://i.postimg.cc/V5q23F5q/2ta.jpg (https://postimg.cc/V5q23F5q)

[over_centre]

This deserves a bump up in 2020. Need some feel good stuff again!

If reviving memories of Sim sessions can be considered 'good stuff' pay a visit to the Australian National Aviation Museum at Moorabbin Airport (post lockdown of course).

There you will find VH-TSD, the former TAA DC-9 simulator. It has been restored as a fixed base display and has full lighting, sound effects, fire & stall alarms plus a video display.

It has proven very popular with young and old!

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1079x612/img_20200926_225545_f99fa1db8cacf7cdabac52b5d49f2df52ac8d447 .jpg

[Flava Saver]

That’s brilliant. Will definitely go check it out.

[megan]

over_centre, does the sim replicate the handling of the original sim, or rather hooked up to a generic commercial program?

[Dora-9]

does the sim replicate the handling of the original sim

Oh God, I hope not! Possibly the worst handling and most unrepresentative simulator ever.

[as1jca]

Aye Ess could we chat about the Men in Crates story? I'm researching for a documentary. [email protected]