L@ser attacks on Aircraft

[eastern wiseguy]

Beavis and Butthead
*

Lasers have become a particular problem at Manchester recently. Even the Police Helicopter is getting lasered.




Sometimes that's the point:ok:

Gives the scrotes something to do until the ground guys pitch up:E

[mercurydancer]

Its getting to be a regular occurrence here in Teesside. Almost very week there is a news report of some chav being arrested for shining a laser. Usually they get away with a slap on the wrist as they were drunk, had a bad childhood or their benefits werent being paid on time

Cynical.. Moi?

[Flying Binghi]

Its getting to be a regular occurrence here in Teesside

Heh, them Sea Shepherd numptys must have a training camp nearby..:)





.

[crippen]

Laser pen man dazzled police helicopter pilot while ‘playing with kittens’
Dean Kirby
January 21, 2011
http://m.gmgrd.co.uk/res/489.$plit/C_71_article_1405969_image_list_image_list_item_0_image.jpg? 21%2F01%2F2011%2010%3A44%3A39%3A565

Mobisir Ali was fined £250
An insurance salesman who dazzled a police helicopter pilot with a laser pen claimed he was actually using it to play with kittens.

Mobisir Ali, 23, fired the green-coloured light beam from a hotel window as the Greater Manchester Police helicopter was flying at 1,000ft over Oldham.

Magistrates in the town were told the pilot lost his night vision and he was unable to see his instruments or the skyline for several seconds.

But Ali walked away from court with a £250 fine after it was claimed he was using the laser as a toy for some kittens.

His solicitor told the court: "He said he would point it on the walls and on the floor and the kittens would run around it and pounce on it. When he shone it on the window, it would bounce back to the floor and they would jump back on it."

Ali, of Newport Street, Oldham, pleaded guilty to one offence under the Air Navigation Order 2009 of shining a light at a helicopter to distract the pilot.

The court heard that Ali, who lives with his parents, was staying with friends at the Park View Hotel, Glodwick, when it happened on January 9.

The helicopter pilot was flying over the area at 12.50am when he was dazzled by Ali’s laser beam.

Julie Spaven, prosecuting, said: "He said he knew the beam went a long way, but denies he was shining it deliberately at the helicopter."

She said it was trained on the helicopter several times over a period of 10 minutes.

She added: "The light made it difficult for the pilot to see anything for several seconds. "He lost outside reference points which enable him to control the aircraft.

"The beam appeared to be directed nowhere other than the aircraft. It is the prosecution case that it was targeted at the helicopter."

Police traced the beam back to the hotel and Ali was arrested. Two friends said he was playing with kittens. He was detained for 24 hours while officers investigated.

Rebecca Romih, defending, said Ali regularly went to the hotel to socialise with a group of friends.

She said he accepted his behaviour was reckless but denied he was shining the light intentionally at the aircraft.

She added: "He says he had bought it on eBay and used it to play with kittens in this hotel.

"He accepts that, by pointing it out of the window, it could have shined on the aircraft. He has never been before the court before and would apologise for the trouble he has caused."

Ali was fined £250 and ordered to pay £85 costs and a £15 victim surcharge. Magistrates ordered that the laser pen be confiscated. Laser pen man dazzled police helicopter pilot while ?playing with kittens? - Manchester Evening News (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1405969_laser_pen_man_dazzled_police_helicopter_pilot_while_ playing_with_kittens)
:ugh:

[glad rag]

Hotel
Kittens
Kittens
Hotel

Na I don't believe it either.

[cwatters]

Perhaps the RSPCA should investigate what it was doing to the kittens :)

[Self Loading Freight]

Odd. My cat only responds to a red laser dot.

[st7860]

here's a lot of silly people supporting the use of lasers and saying "they can't blind a pilot" etc"
Laser Incidents With Aircraft On the Rise - Slashdot (http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/01/22/2255243/Laser-Incidents-With-Aircraft-On-the-Rise)

[Flying Binghi]

here's a lot of silly people supporting the use of lasers and saying "they can't blind a pilot" etc"


According to them Sea Shepherd numptys lasers are harmless fun playthings that every protester should have...:hmm:





.

[overun]

Now that is a ballsy thing to do.

Just going back a few years, the locals used to use halogen mega watts aimed up on approach into Edi.
The point of this is in Manchester in the early nineties spurious radio calls of " go around " were not that unusual.

A permanent removal of benefits is the answer.

[Fark'n'ell]

Hotel
Kittens
Kittens
Hotel

Na I don't believe it either.

Every hotel I have stayed in will not allow pets in their rooms.

[awblain]

The magistrate would seem to be suffering from some kind of dementia to accept the kitten story.

If the convict was indeed `playing with kittens', then the illumination of the helicopter would have been fleeting. Through double glazing, and likely a net curtain if it's anything like a normal hotel, the intensity and narrowness of the beam should have been much reduced. If it's an old single-glazed pane, then the irregularities in the glass should have a similar effect.

I don't think it would have taken perry mason to make the case that he was shooting his laser at the police helicopter through an open window.

But even beyond that: a 250 pound fine and 85 pounds for costs? How much does it cost to lock him up for 24 hours to investigate? How much was he (or the legal aid system) charged by his solicitor? What did it cost to have the helicopter crew's vision checked?

[airship]

1) Concerning the insurance salesman who was ostensibly playing with kittens at 1 o'clock in the morning in a hotel room: looks like he got off very lightly, and presumably the "authorities" are maintaining a (very close) watch on the nocturnal activities (or otherwise) of all the occupants of fore-mentionned hotel room...?!

2) glad rag's BBC link (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12154117) about BAE System's new anti-pirate distraction laser system is quite interesting if only for this: The challenge has been to develop a system that can be used safely - but effectively - over long distances at sea, said Mr Hore.

Weapons designed to cause permanent blindness are banned by a United Nations protocol. (emphasis added)

Uhmmm, so it's OK to cause "permanent blindness" of your enemy using a bayonet, bullet, artillery, even a "laser-guided weapon" etc., just so long as the "permanent blindness" is also accompanied by death?

Have I got that straight? :}

PS. And we should all probably reconsider for just how much longer our superior technologies of $2 billion a piece "stealth bombers" and other laser-guided weapons etc. remain viable in view of the low-costs and availability of laser technology today. That is to say, that I can already imagine low-cost "defensive weapons" based on laser-technologies which might be available to any number of adversaries in the next decade. Capable of "blinding" enemy pilots and smart-weapons over "huge swathes of their territories". What would be the point of all those AWAC aircraft then? The Chinese have already proved their capability to "shoot-down" one of their own satellites, how much easier to (if only temporarily) be able to simply blind your adversary's "spy in the sky"...?

[awblain]

Airship,

That's one of the incongruous laws of war. My understanding is that it originates from a post-WWI ban on `blinding weapons', which was intended to prevent the recurrence of the use of gas attacks to leave thousands of infantrymen blind and lung-scarred but not dead. The wording has been interpreted as also outlawing `laser dazzle sights' - lasers powerful enough potentially to blind, but not to punch holes in metal - which I understand were carried aboard Royal Navy ships during the 1991 Gulf War but subsequently removed.

I would be surprised if the anti-pirate system was legal under these terms, since I understand most pirates use telescopes to spy their targets, as they balance on their wooden legs and chat with their parrots, and a telescope would likely turn a non-blinding YAG laser into a blinding YAG laser.

The use of lasers to damage satellites is a straightforward act of war, no different from shooting at them with fast-moving objects. USAF Space Command must be informed, and give permission, before powerful 10W-class YAG lasers can be used to produce adaptive-optics beacons for astronomical telescopes from sites in the USA.

[airship]

awblain wrote: That's one of the incongruous laws of war. My understanding is that it originates from a post-WWI ban on `blinding weapons', which was intended to prevent the recurrence of the use of gas attacks to leave thousands of infantrymen blind and lung-scarred but not dead

And I can almost imagine some obstentious official within our governments of the day (or even several millenia before) having uttered: "But PM (replace as necessary), the country couldn't possibly look after such wounded. They'd be much better off dead." Whatever WWI combatants sufferered, all the millions of them have basically disappeared by now, and we can have a more or less discrete laugh over what they accomplished. :uhoh:

And look forward to a new century of, uhmmm, mere propoganda in all its' forms...?!

The use of lasers to damage satellites is a straightforward act of war, no different from shooting at them with fast-moving objects. USAF Space Command must be informed, and give permission, before powerful 10W-class YAG lasers can be used to produce adaptive-optics beacons for astronomical telescopes from sites in the USA.

No, it's an act of love, not war. Or, if you prefer, fry them before they fry you. I think.

[stepwilk]

What's with the business of writing "laser" with an @ instead of an a? Is that the electronic equivalent of f*&k?

[awblain]

It's done automatically to stop banner ads for pilot-blinding l*sers being added to the page.

[CISTRS]

If the Gaza flotilla (Mavi Marmara etc) had used such devices in international waters, the outcome of that regrettable incident may have been different.
Proportionality? - green light of a certain character against bullets.....

[crippen]

Laser yob ‘could have brought down helicopter’
Paul Britton
January 26, 2011

A teenage yob put a police helicopter at risk by shining a laser pen at it. The 16-year-old’s conviction is the latest in a string of recent prosecutions over the offence, which police chiefs say can paralyse aircraft and endanger their crew.

The boy, who cannot be named for legal reasons, targeted Greater Manchester Police’s force helicopter, codenamed India 99, as it flew over Higher Blackley on January 14.

He repeatedly shone a bright, green-coloured beam from the laser pen at it, Manchester magistrates court was told.

Prosecutor Satpal Roth said it caused the pilot to be momentarily dazed at 15,000ft and resulted in him losing his night vision. The helicopter’s high-tech instruments were also temporarily impaired, the court heard.

Ms Roth said the pilot and two other crew members on board radioed police colleagues on the ground and the aircraft’s systems were able to direct officers to the source of the beam.

The boy was arrested a short time later.

He pleaded guilty to acting in a manner likely to endanger an aircraft.

The teenager also admitted a separate public order offence after he swore at officers attending an unrelated incident the day before.

He was fined £250 for both offences and told the court: "I feel stupid and I regret it."

Michael Lyons, chairman of the bench, ordered that the laser should be destroyed and told the teenager his actions could have had ‘potentially devastating consequences’.

He said: "The shining of a laser pen at a helicopter is only going to do one thing. Potentially it is going to bring that helicopter down from the sky."

The teenager said he got the laser pen from a friend. Gemma McGhee, defending, said his actions were ‘foolish and reckless’.

She said: "He did not realise that it was such a powerful instrument.

"He did not even think that the beam would reach up to the helicopter.

"He fully accepts that if the pilot had lost control, anything could have happened."

The court heard the offence could carry a maximum sentence of five years in prison. Laser yob ?could have brought down helicopter? - Manchester Evening News (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/crime/s/1406302_laser_yob_could_have_brought_down_helicopter)

[Dr. Bru]

We used to get the laser going into Crete all the time. Almost every night turning final we got the green laser. We told the Greek authorites and they did nothing. It is good to see that some counties are doing something about this.

[stuckgear]

Heraklion or Chania ?

[sb_sfo]

San Jose man jailed in laser shinings at aircraft (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/01/27/BASR1HEHNR.DTL)

[rotornut]

Yet another: Man charged after laser pointed at aircraft (http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Charges+laid+after+planes+over+Calgary+with+laser/4187367/story.html)

[wittonbob]

A youth in the north east of England who shone a laser at an in bound Jet2 flight to Newcastle and then shone it again at the police helicopter sent to catch him was found guilty today and given a 12 month supervision order. He claimed that when he bought the £20 laser he didn't know how powerful it was and he was ".. only messing about" shining it out of his attic window!!

What are they teaching theses kids in school these days?

[CISTRS]

FAA / USAF video

YouTube - "Aircraft Laser Illumination" edited version of FAA & Air Force video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtKSdy2KAW4&feature=player_embedded)

[commsbloke]

Two men who shone a green laser at the Thames Valley Police helicopter in Milton Keynes have received fines after admitting a charge of endangering an aircraft.

Thames Valley Police (http://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/newsevents/newsevents-pressreleases/newsevents-pressreleases-item.htm?id=165977&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed)

[rcsa]

Prosecutor Satpal Roth said it caused the pilot to be momentarily dazed at 15,000ft and resulted in him losing his night vision. The helicopter’s high-tech instruments were also temporarily impaired, the court heard.

Seriously? 15,000ft? In a police chopper?

Shurely shome mishtake....?

[fantom]

Why do you write l@ser instead of laser?

[Ex Cargo Clown]

"who when caught, face the prospect of a prison sentence.”

Prospect of getting a 120 quid fine more like it.

Are any of these morons going to get a proper punishment?

[rotornut]

And now a ten year old:

10-year-old behind laser-pointer strike on police pilot - thestar.com (http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/article/941511--10-year-old-behind-laser-pointer-strike-on-police-pilot?bn=1)

[crippen]

but in a car. IT IS NOT NICE,even on a motorway,you are ' black spotted' vision for 20 or 30 secs.:\

[MkSi]

I was wondering, if there are rules proscribing the pilots from making an announcement to the passengers once safely on the ground such as :

"ladies and gentlemen we would like to inform you that during our approach someone aimed a l@ser at this aircraft.

Surely this would raise the profile of such cases, and get something done about high power l@sers pens?

[JWP1938]

I agree entirely. The passengers would realise they may have had a "near miss" and the raising of the profile of such occurrences would prompt parents to be more vigilant and maybe prompt further official action if possible.

[skadi]

Two Teens ( 18 and 19 yrs ) were sentenced to two weeks jail and social work in Hamburg last week. They made laser attacks on aircrafts on final EDDH and on a policehelicopter, who could locate them.

[Flying Lawyer]

House moves to stop laser targeting of aircraft

(AP) – Feb 28, 2011

WASHINGTON (AP) — People who knowingly aim laser pointers at aircraft would be committing a federal crime subject to up to five years in prison under legislation passed by both the House and the Senate.

The House on Monday approved by voice vote the Securing Cockpits Against Laser Pointers Act, a response to a growing number of incidents of pilots being distracted or even temporarily blinded by laser beams and concerns that terrorists might use lasers to bring down aircraft.

The Senate passed the same provision a month ago as an amendment to a Federal Aviation Administration spending bill. The two chambers must now agree on a common format to send it to President Barack Obama for his signature.

The FAA reports that the number of cases of people pointing laser at planes and helicopters jumped from 1,527 in 2009 to 2,836 in 2010. In some cases pilots have had to relinquish control of an aircraft to a co-pilot because of vision loss.

The House bill's sponsor, Republican Dan Lungren of California, said there were only 400 reported incidents in the 15-year period before 2005, when a similar bill passed the House. He said another major concern has been cases of airborne police units being forced to abort crime scene responses because of laser interference.

Law enforcement pilots "have to consider the possibility that they are being illuminated by a laser scope attached to a rifle," Lungren said. He said the shining of lasers at aircraft cockpit was "a tragedy waiting to happen."

In addition to temporarily incapacitating pilots, laser beams can cause eye damage.

The threat from handheld laser pointers has grown as they become more powerful and more affordable. Lasers that once cost more than $1,000 can now be bought online for a few hundred dollars or less. Incidents have been common near airports where pilots, either coming in for landing or taking off, need to be at their most alert.

"The risk associated with laser illuminations is unacceptable," said Capt. Lee Moak, president of the Air Line Pilots Association, International. He said "pointing lasers at aircraft in flight poses a serious safety risk to the traveling public" and urged the government, in addition to passing legislation, to restrict the sale of high-powered portable lasers and increase the size of laser-free zones around airports.

Federal law already allows charges to be brought against those seeking to destroy an aircraft, but the law requires the government to prove willful intent to endanger a pilot. That can be difficult in the case of laser pointers, where some users may have malicious intent but others may be laser enthusiasts who don't realize the harm that long-range laser beams can cause.

Current law also covers commercial flights, but may not extend to law enforcement helicopters that are particularly vulnerable because they fly at lower altitudes.

[obnoxious]

?Stupid? teen from Stockport shone laser beam at jets and police helicopter | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/crime/s/1410756_stupid_teen_from_stockport_shone_laser_beam_at_jets_ and_police_helicopter)

[crippen]

Is there anybody out there? Man guilty of shining laser pen at police helicopter claims he was hunting for UFOs
March 28, 2011
http://m.gmgrd.co.uk/res/185.$plit/C_71_article_1416493_image_list_image_list_item_0_image.jpg? 29%2F03%2F2011%2009%3A17%3A18%3A877

Derek Brown shone a laser pen at a police helicopter
A man said he shone a powerful laser pen at a police helicopter by accident while he was 'looking for UFOs.'

Derek Brown, 27, pleaded guilty to recklessly endangering an aircraft but told Manchester Magistrates Court that there had been sightings of UFOs in the area and he hadn't realised it was a police helicopter.

Miss Claire Parrott, defending, said: “He was out on his own, walking to the shops – there had been talk in the area of UFOs. He didn't realise it was a police helicopter.

When he did he put his hands up to say sorry.” Mr Brown, of Sankey Grove, Blackley, has been told he could go to jail after the prosecution told the court his actions were 'very dangerous'.

Miss Kerry Bell, prosecuting, said: “With more difficult weather conditions it could have proved catastrophic.”

Speaking outside court, Mr Brown said he hadn't meant to cause danger to the public. “I never realised how dangerous it was. All these stories were in my mind that have freaked me out for a bit. I've said sorry and I've written a letter to the court,” he said.

He is due to be sentenced at Manchester Magistrates Court on Thursday.

Is there anybody out there? Man guilty of shining laser pen at police helicopter claims he was hunting for UFOs | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1416493_is-there-anybody-out-there-man-guilty-of-shining-laser-pen-at-police-helicopter-claims-he-was-hunting-for-ufos)

[Jamie-Southend]

BBC News - Essex Police warning on the danger of laser pens (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-14168147)

[LukeA346]

I took of from Palma Majorca last night on RYR8244 and some :mad: down on the ground was shining a green laser as were climbing out, we must have been around FL40 I couldn't believe how bright it was!

[free at last]

Just had a laser attack on Rwy15 arrival into VCP, blinded my right eye. Notified tower, numerous attacks ,, they are real, will let you know if I am blinded in my right eye.

[cowl flaps]

Can someone tell me why the spelling of 'laser' has the '@' symbol ?
Is it a a yankee thing ??
The acronym of "light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation" should simply be 'laser'

[odericko2000]

had an attack recently into Muscat on approach for Rwy 08, blinded my right eye. guys from my airline are saying its becoming pretty common into MCT. be careful people

[fantom]

I asked the same thing and Vis3 was kind enough to PM me that it is an auto PPRuNe thing to hinder people getting their hands on the things (via Google connections).

[SLFguy]

"Can someone tell me why the spelling of 'laser' has the '@' symbol ?
Is it a a yankee thing ??
The acronym of "light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation" should simply be 'laser'"

Calm down dear.

[beaufort1]

A Newcastle teenager who shone a laser pen into the cockpit of the Northumbria Police helicopter has been sentenced.


BBC News - David Taylor sentenced for helicopter laser pen attack (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-14251895)

[Bobbsy]

@cowl flaps

I've always assumed it was to prevent this thread showing up on Google when the sort of juvenile delinquent who would think shining a l@ser at an aircraft is funny searches for information on his appalling hobby.

Of course it won't work since Google now searches all the words in posts, not just the thread title...but that's a common reason for using @ instead of a.

[Savoia]

.
Russian Crew Film Laser Attack

[Panama Jack]

In another Middle Eastern country, we often had problems with green lasers being aimed at aircraft during final approach. Crews routinely reported the problem to ATC.

The problem was largely resolved-- police took these complaints seriously and the local papers also published articles, which mentioned that perpetrators may be punished with the Death Penalty if their activities were to lead to an aircraft accident involving fatalities. :ok:

[sb_sfo]

Clark Gable's grandson charged with shining laser at police chopper - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2011/SHOWBIZ/celebrity.news.gossip/07/30/california.gable.grandson/index.html?npt=NP1)

[window-seat]

We got targeted R/H down wind for 04R at SSH last week :=

[James T. Kirk]

We got hit by one last night on approach to CRL.

[EEngr]

Has anyone put up a reward for turning in someone caught pulling this stunt? That Russian video (earlier post) appears as though the perp was near some buildings in a relatively populated area. Someone else might have seen who done it.

I was thinking about something like $1000 for a tip leading to prosecution. But after watching the dollar :( I'll take an ounce of gold instead.

[inducedrag]

These days on approach from houses close to OPKC some time LEASER LIGHTS are thrown on airliners better watch out

[aviator_]

You wonder what goes through peoples heads to do something so stupid and dangerous for a minute of fun...

Such a disregard for safety I bet they would be moaning if something happened and a family member of there's was on the aircraft.

Why where these ever made in the first place do they have a function in the world ?

[inducedrag]

These days on approach from houses close to OPKC some time LEASER LIGHTS are thrown on airliners better watch out

[enwent]

Aviator asked:Why where these ever made in the first place do they have a function in the world ?They were made because it's in the nature of humankind to produce every gadget we invent. Sooner or later, for good or ill, most of them find their way into private hands.

As an astronomer actively pursuing outreach, I find a laser pointer VERY useful. There simply is no better -- or remotely equal -- tool for identifying stars and constellations to a group of people.

I also fitted a 5-milliwatt green laser to my 8" Schmidt-Cassegrain telescope, whose design and mounting often impede (and sometimes prevent) sighting up the optical tube into the sky. The laser lets me point it to a naked-eye reference in seconds, where I used to fumble around for minutes. On this telescope, it's the best tool imaginable for initial location.

However, I share your bewilderment and outrage over the abuse of lasers. I always check for air traffic before turning mine on, then douse it as soon as I've found my place. It's seldom on for more than 10 seconds per few minutes. At the legal US limit, the beam remains visible in very clear, dry conditions. Even among astronomers, careless use has made enemies of lasers, and I keep mine off where it's not welcome.

Cell-phone idiocy injures and kills many more people than laser idiocy ever will, but anyone who called for a ban on cell phones we'd dismiss as a fruit loop. With so many needlessly powerful lasers (and phones!) already in reckless hands, I believe we'll do more good by educating the users than by banning the tools.

[dlcmdrx]

Here in ksfb allegiants being attacked north of the monroe

[Lemain]

L@sers, being coherent monochromatic light, are very easy to detect and protect against. I hope that there are counter-measures already in development and trials. The science is straightforward.

[subsonicsubic]

A long time ago....In a thread much like this...I belittled someone re: dangers posed by laser light.

That person proceeded to nail me to the extent that 4 PPrune users were barred...


I have subsequently become a victim of such an attack, and I realise now the safety implications.

Blue Wolf. You were entirely correct.

Lasers pose a real and valid threat to air traffic.

:D

[MagnusP]

Another one reported - Edinburgh this time.

BBC News - Warning over l@ser shone at plane landing in Edinburgh (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-14805842)

[jayteeto]

Check this 'super laser' out, reported in the Mail

Never mind pilots, this green laser is so powerful it can dazzle satellites - and it's freely on sale | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2034271/Never-mind-pilots-green-laser-powerful-dazzle-satellites--freely-sale.html)

[sled dog]

Reported to heve happened twice in recent weeks with a/c on approach to LUX.

[awblain]

Pointers are usually 1-5mW, maybe 10mW at the extreme.

1W is serious, especially at green where the eye's response is most sensitive.
I've no idea what a legitimate use of such a device would be: lamping rabbits in the next county?

For $300 the frequency stability will surely be all over the place, leaving plenty of fingerprints for the police helicopters' fancy new forensic laser spectrograph thingy, (BBC NEWS | UK | New weapon targets laser attackers (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7989957.stm)). (Unless it gets burned out by the laser pointer.) Hopefully, the focus will be rotten too, getting less energy per eye in the sky.

[stuckgear]

So, very recently I was at a wedding the reception of hich was adjacent to a major international airport. As the celebrations turned to evening and the DJ started up, on came the laser machine. Now this particular venue has roof windows..

just some cursory research shows that a 30MW green laser, such as would be used can be purchased of 144.00 and an 80MW for 240.00

now this set me to wonder, as how many inadvertent events actually occur and how many people and venues that operate such equipment have any inkling of the inhenerent dangers.

[long final]

We were targeted with a green laser light a few nights ago over Cap Antibes, 04R ILS for Nice. On mentioning the incident to Tower we were told that it was a usual occurrence. :sad:

[OldBristolFreighter]

Just noticed this on BBC South

“29 August 2011Last updated at 14:11

Lasers shone at plane coming into Southampton airport
A Flybe pilot reported laser pens being shone into the cockpit of his aircraft as he was coming into land at Southampton airport on Saturday.
The crew of a police helicopter was also targeted as they investigated the incident at about 21:30 BST.Thermal imaging cameras were used to locate suspects at two addresses in Bitterne. Three people were arrested on suspicion of endangering an aircraft.
Police said three laser pens were recovered.
Two youths, both aged 17, and a man, aged 20, were held in custody overnight.
Police said the 20-year-old received a caution and the youths were referred to the Youth Offending Team.”

Why bother to catch them when there is such a pathetic “punishment”?

[MagnusP]

Perhaps more serious punishment will be considered should these :mad: be caught.

Man dies after yobs stop air ambulance landing in Calne (From The Wiltshire Gazette and Herald) (http://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/news/towns/calneheadlines/9242814.Man_dies_after_yobs_stop_air_ambulance_landing_in_Ca lne/)

[lasernigel]

For $300 the frequency stability will surely be all over the place

Unfortunately not, figures from the manufacturers spec sheet...

Beam divergence 1.5mRad, beam diameter 2mm, NOHD 149 Meters and Beam distance @ 0.25 Lux 6856 Meters.

This is a seriously dangerous laser and how the manufacturer can say they can sell it legally is beyond comprehension.:ugh:

[Stop Stop Stop]

Yet another one! And in rural Somerset. When will these people learn?

Laser 'attack' on police helicopter in Chard (From Chard & Ilminster News) (http://www.chardandilminsternews.co.uk/news/9238060.Laser__attack__on_police_helicopter_in_Chard/?ref=mmsp)

I have had several attacks myself from the dreaded green laser- in Amsterdam, the Hague, Cardiff, Bristol and Thirsk in Yorkshire. Several of them have been particularly bright and directed directly at the flight deck. Luckily, it did not affect the vision of myself or the first officer- we were able to look away in time.

I do hope that the magistrates in the case above read this forum and can realise just how dangerous it is when these idiots shine lasers at aircraft. A prison sentence should be mandatory to send out a signal to the other numpties out there who wish to prove to their numpty friends how funny it is to shine a laser at an aircraft.

What happens when such an episode causes an accident (as is likely one day)?

[poldek77]

Quite impressive...

Laser Pointer Leads to Arrest - YouTube (http://youtu.be/3k4C8grAGP4)

[Admiral346]

We were hit twice on the same approach to BHX in the beginning of october this year, once on base and once on final.
By the time we landed, they had already arrested the first one...

[I.R.PIRATE]

Landing from the south in Jeddah now, you are nearly guaranteed to be nailed by lasers. They are installed on top of buildings now, and actually pointing toward the glide path on rwy 34. I have reported it to tower before and they say yes, they know about it. Pretty damn stupid.

[lomapaseo]

Quite impressive...



Good job for drones.

Who were the guys making the arrest, quite a few of them did not appear to have hats on like local cops.

Were they ATF ?

[FLEXPWR]

A teenager in France is getting 3 months suspended jail sentence for aiming laser at aircraft on approach in Paris CDG airport.

Article here (french): Condamné pour avoir ébloui des pilotes d'avions au laser - Yahoo! (http://fr.news.yahoo.com/condamn%C3%A9-avoir-%C3%A9bloui-pilotes-davions-au-laser-102500673.html)

The subject has probably been dealt with in other threads, but I won't search the whole site for this one.

I read recently the US is moving in this direction too, i.e. making it an offence to aim laser beams at aircraft, and actually starting to enforce it.

The article mentions 2800 laser attacks in France for 2010, but I suspect it is much more, considering the number of times (in other countries) I have reported to ATC on finals and they don't seem to give a damn, just the usual ""ah...OK".

I used to get lasers at least once or twice a month in Europe, flying short haul for about 80 hours per month. Am I seeing things or is this what other pilots experience too?

Opinions welcome!

[ChristiaanJ]

Suspended sentence?
He should have gotten three months 'tout court', and with somebody shining a l@ser at him through the hole in his cell door every evening.....

[ST27]

Interesting you should mention that. I just read an article describing the situation in the US and specifically California. There were over 2,000 instances of lasers pointed at aircraft in the US last year, and LAX is considered one of the worst airports.

Rising trend of laser-pointing at planes, helicopters | abc7.com (http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=8491027)

The Feds recently passed a law making the act a felony (roughly equivalent to an indictable offense in the UK) with penalty up to $11,000 per event. We'll see if it has any effect.

[lomapaseo]

The Feds recently passed a law making the act a felony (roughly equivalent to an indictable offense in the UK) with penalty up to $11,000 per event. We'll see if it has any effect.

Laws have minimal effect, it's the punishment that applies that might have an effect.

I doubt that "up-to $$$" would mean anything to a teen ager who isn't going to pay it anyhow

[poorjohn]

Question asked with all due respect -

As a menial GA pilot, back when those war surplus anti-aircraft spotlights were popularly used in the US for advertising events, I flew through one, low altitude night VFR of course, and at least virtually soiled myself, but after a moment I realized what the intense flash was about, and went back to aviating. Despite the intensity, my vision wasn't affected at all.

Those green lasers are being sold in abusive intensities, but it seems to me that if shone from below they need to bounce off something high in the cockpit and will be somewhat diffused and unlikely to reach an eye with any significant energy.

What am I missing? (And fire away, of course - I realize it's a hot topic.)

[ft]

They're not only shone from directly below.

How much ground can you see while sat in the cockpit? A laser in that area will hit your eyes directly. I've been hit, and it's not my idea of fun. I definitely didn't want to look for anything in that direction, which could pose a problem.

Owning those lasers should be equalised with owning a weapon, and as there are no permits it'd be owning an illegal weapon. Couple of months free food and lodging should be the minimum for pointing one at aircraft.

Right now, they're getting a slap on the wrist in my neck of the woods. Probable effect: Nil. As usual, it will take accidents before someone decides to actually do something about it.

[bubbers44]

Teenagers are pretty stupid so they won't know how dangerous it is to pilots until they are put in jail. So put them in jail, maybe they will get smarter, I don't think so but it is worth a try.

[FLEXPWR]

During an approach in night VMC, the laser beam came right through the cockpit, we were about 1000' on finals, and the beam came from a building on the left. The idiots can spot us so easily with the nav, strobes, landing lights, etc. I turned of ALL lights for 20 seconds, then back on, the sucker could not track us!

[overun]

Hang on, you did say that you were on approach ......

were you ?

[Moose17]

Its just not pilots that are at risk. Think of all the children and other passengers looking out the windows. They don't know to look away. People that point lasers at aircraft need to be held criminally liable. Heck, sue the crap out of them.

[jayfromfla]

Got hit from 5 or 6 different locations from 8000-1000 into GRU last night. All Green 532's. Probably got the cockpit 20 times or more.

Ordered some goggles today and will test them out next week.

About 6 months ago I got hit badly on departure from GRU at 1000 feet. Flash blindness in that eye for @ 1 minute then saw a spot for a couple of hours. Had a retinal eye scan the next am and thankfully no damage.

The problem is you don't know what they are shooting 5mw or 1w.....or even 4w. A 1w can do permanent damage to 1000ft. Flash blind to 3000.

This is getting nuts.

[Go Smoke]

Those green l@sers are being sold in abusive intensities, but it seems to me that if shone from below they need to bounce off something high in the cockpit and will be somewhat diffused and unlikely to reach an eye with any significant energy.

What am I missing? (And fire away, of course - I realize it's a hot topic.)

I've been 'lazed' a few times now, and up until recently had been lucky enough to have not had a massive hit on my eyes.........just glancing passes and light scatter from reflected rays in the cockpit. Those were unpleasant enough and affected my vision.
However, a couple of months ago whilst GA flying at night at 3,000' I looked down out of the port side window at precisely the same moment somebody decided to laser the aircraft. I got it square in the eyes. Thankfully the autopilot was engaged and I had another pilot sat next to me as I was temporarily blinded. It was such incredibly intense light. I couldnt see a damn thing for about a minute. After that it took quite a time for the effects to dissapear and my companion had to take over the flying.
Heaven forbid that I'd been in the approach phase and on my own up front. I'm not sure that I'd have been able to manage the situation.
These damned things are dangerous.

[riverrock83]

Why do people aim at planes? I've heard very few attacks on vehicles yet loads of attacks on planes. Do you think it is just because people think they can get away with it for planes?

[poorjohn]

Thanks for the useful replies. I hadn't paid attention to the numbers and didn't realize that these were commonly available in watt+ energies. I agree that level is extremely dangerous.

Assuming sale/possession of a laser that strong is illegal in the US, ALPA or some interested group might very inexpensively have at least a small impact by having their legal people send letters reminding eBay et al of the issue. Beyond that, what to do? US Customs is too busy to interdict (these are surely Asian sourced), and the perps are either malicious or ignorant of the potential consequences to their target or themselves.

Interestingly Wikipedia says the high-powered green ones are based on IR diodes and retain a large IR component so goggles (or cockpit-window films) would need to take that into account since the invisible IR component is damaging too. Laser pointer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_pointer)

Safe flight to all, and thanks again for the education.

[Flying Binghi]

Why do people aim at planes? I've heard very few attacks on vehicles yet loads of attacks on planes. Do you think it is just because people think they can get away with it for planes?


The Sea Shepherd terrorists have used lazers pionted at ships captains/crew fer many a year - nothing happens to them and they get the full support of the Australian Green party.

My recomendation to anybody who would like to piont a lazer at any sort of human controlled machine is to first join the Sea Shepherd terrorist group then yer gets immunity..:hmm:





.

[magpienja]

Serious examples need to be made.

[lasernigel]

Interestingly Wikipedia says the high-powered green ones are based on IR diodes and retain a large IR component so goggles (or cockpit-window films) would need to take that into account since the invisible IR component is damaging too.

As long as the googles/glasses you purchased had an OD >5 that would protect the eyes fully.

[911slf]

Optical Density 5 would reduce light by factor of 100,000 at the wavelengths for which it operated. For example if it applied at all visible/IR/UV wavelengths you could stare at the sun through a telescope with no danger assuming the filter was perfect, fitted to the objective not the eyepiece, you do not align the telescope by looking along the barrel etc. I am NOT recommending you should do this - a projection system is still better if you really wanted to look at the sun.

So the Optical Density needs to be high at only the wavelength you need to block and no other - and this assumes all the problem lasers have the same wavelength (don't know if they do or not, it seems quite likely). Optical Density needs to be near zero at all other wavelengths if it is not to adversely affect your colour vision. And the lens needs to be a good optical flat or ground to same prescription as your spectacles.

I am not a pilot but I do know a bit about optics. I suggest it would be good to consult with aviation medicine specialists (your employers'?) before wearing laser filters.

And of course I agree with the sentiments expressed to the effect that offenders should be treated severely and ownership of high power lasers (above 1mw?) restricted by licence.

[awblain]

If there is infrared laser light coming in, it will be substantially blocked by the windows, so it shouldn't be too dangerous in itself. You eyes will still reflexively track to the bright green source though, so the distraction is still there.

I'd suggest taking great care with laser goggles - LED warning lights, and flat-panel display phosphors/LCD-filtered lamps might be blocked at the same frequency, and so look weird/dark. If using goggles is a decision you take to increase safety from dazzle, then making sure that your colleague keeps their eyes strictly inside the cockpit, and pays attention to this possibilty while you're using them to look outside might be something to consider.

I think I agree entirely with the post from 911slf above on this.

[lasernigel]

Optical Density needs to be near zero at all other wavelengths if it is not to adversely affect your colour vision.

Having worked on lasers since 1978, unfortunately one of the considerations of wearing laser glasses/googles, is that it does reduce visible light transmission by up to 50%. There are some very good "high vis" filters around but the cost would no doubt be prohibitive. We use these filters within the optics of a slit lamp/microscope for the doctor to see the "target area" more clearly. But these are relatively quite small in diameter, approx 1-1.5cm.

[materazzi]

every night arrival at GRU means you will get attacked by a LASER.. both approaches, 9 and 27... total nightmare... plus the TS... don't like it

[sudden Winds]

Someone has probably mentioned this already in the thread but I am too lazy to read the whole thing...these laser "attacks" happen daily when approaching into GRU and GIG (sao paulo and rio de janeiro). The ATIS even warns of possible laser light aiming at the airplanes on approach.
The first time it happened to me I reported it, and the tower replied like they already knew.

What surprises me tho, is that the laser they use is green (as opposed to the little red laser pointer I use to convince my cats to get back in the kitchen when it gets dark) and seems very powerful.
Cheers.

[Quartz-1]

Pardon an idiot MOP, but why aren't these attacks being prosecuted in the U.K. as attempted murder? I don't rate the chances of a helicopter pilot surviving being blinded very highly. And were the pilots of a passenger plane blinded, could they land the plane?

[S78]

A lot of these lasers are purchased by yobs on holiday and imported back into the UK from places where they are freely available - Bulgaria, Turkey, Cyprus, Spain and a few others.

Unfortunately UKBA cannot touch them because lasers are not prohibited.

As soon as our MPs get their heads out of their expenses forms and pass the appropriate laws then you may see a drop in the availability of these things. - although I suspect that it may take a fatal crash before something is done....

[Genghis the Engineer]

A lot of these lasers are purchased by yobs on holiday and imported back into the UK from places where they are freely available - Bulgaria, Turkey, Cyprus, Spain and a few others.

Unfortunately UKBA cannot touch them because lasers are not prohibited.

As soon as our MPs get their heads out of their expenses forms and pass the appropriate laws then you may see a drop in the availability of these things. - although I suspect that it may take a fatal crash before something is done....

So long as these rules are about use, not ownership.

I have a reasonably powerful (I think legal) green laser; it lives in my jacket pocket, I find it extremely useful when giving presentations or pointing out things on an aeroplane on my regular periods in the hangar talking about modifications and problems.

If I pointed it at an aeroplane in flight, I would deserve to be locked up.



In parallel, I own a large number of large and very sharp kitchen knives. I used them regularly, most recently for shaving a ham for a sandwich last night.

If I decided to use the same knife in public to scare or persuade somebody, I would also deserve to be locked up.


So, don't please pressure to ban a very useful tool - just ensure that the misuse of that tool is a criminal act that is severely punished.

G

[infrequentflyer789]

Why do people aim at planes? I've heard very few attacks on vehicles yet loads of attacks on planes. Do you think it is just because people think they can get away with it for planes?

Attacks on other vehicles are happening, just using different methods.

I guess it's lasers for planes because it's difficult to lob a concrete block 1000 ft up with the required accuracy...

[ZK-WDR]

18-year old arrested in Auckland - even pointed the laser at the Police helicopter called to investigate!

Teen arrested for laser attack on aircraft - National - NZ Herald News (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10781568)

[JOE-FBS]

Doesn't just happen to you professionals either. I was doing the last base leg of my night qualification tonight when some fecker in the armpit of Coventry flashed me with a laser. Still, I managed to both report it and continue to a decent landing. Three hours later with a pint of Marstons oatmeal stout to relax me, it still feels as though I have had a bit of dust in that eye. Hanging is too good for them, etc.

[Lemain]

You are never, ever going to prevent the criminally insane from getting access to lasers. There are lasers in so many different products with legitimate uses, and millions in 'circulation'. The answer is to prevent them from causing harm.

Laser light is coherent, collimated and monochromatic. There must be a technical solution. Goggles, maybe, but maybe a distraction on (statistically) the most dangerous phase of flight which is the time the pilots are most at risk due to attitude. Maybe a coating, or a screen that can be pulled down when lasers could be a risk, and easy to release if they are causing a problem with vision?

Welding goggles work very well - adapt that for a pull-down screen?

Just forget trying to stop or catch the criminals....it's a waste of time and effort.

[md80fanatic]

I have an 80 milliwatt green laser and ran a test with various colors of theatrical gel filters. The red filter completely consumed the green beam! When the laser source is viewed from the other side of the filter (pilot's perspective) there is no evidence the laser is even switched on (dark aperture hole). Perhaps a sheet can adhere to the cockpit window statically, or a roll could be used, as stated above, as a pull-down shade.

This is the data sheet associated with the filter material and color that I used:
Rosco US : Filters : Roscolux (http://www.rosco.com/us/filters/roscolux.cfm)

http://www.rosco.com/images/filters/roscolux/26.jpg

[Lemain]

That's a low-pass filter and would cut off green nav lights and light signals. We'd be looking for a band-stop filter or a polarising filter that automatically self-adapts to coherent light? LCD technology, I suspect.

[lasernigel]

I have a reasonably powerful (I think legal) green laser; it lives in my jacket pocket, I find it extremely useful when giving presentations or pointing out things on an aeroplane on my regular periods in the hangar talking about modifications and problems.


So, don't please pressure to ban a very useful tool - just ensure that the misuse of that tool is a criminal act that is severely punished.


With all due respect, there is NO need to have a "green reasonably powerful laser" as a pointer. They should be limited to red only so less powerful.

Anything over 5mW should require a licence, there is no justification for the general public to have access to anything over that.

[Lemain]

With all due respect, there is NO need to have a "green reasonably powerful laser" as a pointer. They should be limited to red only so less powerful.

Anything over 5mW should require a licence, there is no justification for the general public to have access to anything over that. With all due respect, who are you to state that there is "NO need" for anything? In any case, those who wish to do beastly things with equipment -- guns, knives, TASERs, CS gas, etc.) will obtain them and use them. By banning or limiting the sale of anything one tends to ban the legitimate user and intrigue the criminal who maybe had never before considered the 'fun' he could have with one.

When you talk about 'the general public' remember that we are all 'the general public' outside our own occupations or hobbies (e.g. Radio Amateurs, PPLs don't consider themselves as 'the general public'). The driver of the refuse truck, the train driver, even the bus conductor consider themselves not to be 'the general public'.

In my experience, anyone who says that 'the general public' should not have or do this or that means that for some reason they don't consider themselves as 'the general public'. So may I take it that you'd not count yourself as 'the general public in this context?

Dr Harold Shipman wasn't a member of the 'general public' and look what he did with the morphine that he obtained legally. When caring for my terminally ill father, I had enough morphine to kill half a dozen people yet I was safer than that particular doctor because unknown to society the doctor was criminally insane and I wasn't.

As for the risk to aircraft, you only need one criminally insane individual to bring down an aircraft -- with the same impact as Flight 103. Banning the sale of these things isn't going to reduce the risk. You need to protect against the attack, not try to prevent anyone from attacking.

By the way, I could quickly and easily adapt the 'gubbins' of a domestic microwave oven to kill or main dozens of people from a distance of many metres, invisibly and almost silently. Let's ban microwaves? Or just ban the general public? Or ban those who understand the gubbins well enough to make an offensive weapon? Or bang me up in pokey because I could if I wanted to?

[IcePaq]

These bullets could be used in an "anti-radiation" mode much like the "arm" and "harm" missiles.


Steerable bullet aims for mass army deployment ? The Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/31/sandia_steerable_bullet/)

http://regmedia.co.uk/2012/01/31/sandia_bullet_small.jpg

They could probably manufacture one that you can just drop that will acquire the laser.

[ricardian]

And it's not just aircraft that are endangered - BBC report (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-16989160) on train driver in Gloucester who had a laser shone in his eyes.

[Lemain]

And it's not just aircraft that are endangered - BBC report (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-16989160) on train driver in Gloucester who had a laser shone in his eyes. And they'll use them on cars, buses,... These are murderous cowards. Trouble is that if you try to ban the devices you will fail and just create yet another black market. On the one side, there needs to be adequate deterrent and on the other, 'armour' at least on public services where countless lives might be taken.

There is a difference, to my mind, between someone killing another for a rational motive -- e.g. to escape, to acquire, for love, and so on -- and quite another to deliberately murder people for the 'fun' of it. The latter group should be detained until they they are no longer physically capable of harming others (or executed if the regime permits that). A merciless justice and system of retribution with a high risk of detection would go some way towards stopping these murderers. There aren't many thieves in Saudi, and there aren't many one-handed men, either.

I guess that my views are politically incorrect, but each is entitled to his own view.

[PilotUnknown]

My question on this matter which has always been there is:

Do these people and the general non-aviation public realise by trying to paint or hit a target (with a laser) which is thousands of feet away actually can cause a real danger to the aircraft?

Could this be more an issue of education? I know most people know not to aim them at people, however could they see an aircraft as an object which may be too far away to hit or cause any real damage?

[magpienja]

A few years back I was sat in an HGV in the yard of a large shop when a young scrote was pointing one of the devices at me....I called the local police station whilst he continued to do it,

I was most surprised when the female police operator seemed totally uninterested and went on to tell me they had nobody to help me at that time,

What can you do if the authorities show little interest...I was disgusted.

[mbriscoe]

A few years back I was sat in an HGV in the yard of a large shop when a young scrote was pointing one of the devices at me....I called the local police station whilst he continued to do it,

I was most surprised when the female police operator seemed totally uninterested and went on to tell me they had nobody to help me at that time,

What can you do if the authorities show little interest...I was disgusted.


Tell her you saw them point it towards what you thought was a police car on a nearby road, they might take more interest then.

[Lemain]

One way forward for lasers would be to require lasers to be equipped with integral drivers that are pulse-coded for ID. It could be an offence to possess or use an un-coded device without an appropriate license. This would allow higher power devices to be sold legally for surveying, long distance pointing, experimentation, yet make it possible to detect individual units. The risk of detection with stiff penalties for abuse would be a deterrent as detection is credible.

[Tankertrashnav]

Thread drift, but why does PPRuNe seem to randomly turn l a s e r into la@er? Is it something akin to the L a n d R o v e r/ Trabant thing?

[skwinty]

I have a 25mW green laser that I use for astronomy.

Nobody but myself uses it and never towards anything other than the stars and planets.

It has an effective range of at least 25km.

They are easily purchased over the internet for about $20.

Mine came as a gift with some astronomy equipment that I purchased.

Good luck trying to get these lasers controlled, as they should be!

[Genghis the Engineer]

Thread drift, but why does PPRuNe seem to randomly turn l a s e r into la@er? Is it something akin to the L a n d R o v e r/ Trabant thing?

To avoid the website attracting adverts for the devices - and thus the potential situation of some scrote trying to use the defence in court "well, I thought it was fine to point it at aeroplanes, as a bought it from an advert on a well known professional pilots website".

G

[Tankertrashnav]

Never thought of that - thanks Genghis :ok:

[2EggOmelette]

I was wondering that too. Very smart indeed.:8

[AvMed.IN]

Wee Willy Winky said
...doesn't seem to take l@ser attacks on landing aircraft seriously

However the spurt in incidences of pranksters aiming handheld laser devices at aircraft during low level flying or while making an approach should raise alarm bells - it is a flight safety hazard and can damage retina (http://www.avmed.in/2012/02/there-is-laser-in-my-eye/).

[JFA]

Yeah gentleman, sometimes bad luck strikes.

The other day i got to positively identify the window of the building one of those suckers was pointing his little green pencil.

**** happens, i filled in a nice slim report with the help of my company legal staff. He was already identified, equipment seized and is into a world of legal trouble.

Note to followers, its cheaper not to point lasers at things that transport passengers.

PS: I almost forgot to write where. Lisbon, Portugal.

[riverrock83]

BBC News - Three arrests after lasers aimed at aircraft (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17349424)

I hope they properly throw the book at them - none of that "caution" malarkey!

Police have arrested three people on suspicion of endangering aircraft on Monday.
Two 17-year-old youths were arrested in north Belfast after a laser was shone at an aircraft from the Ballysillan playing fields at about 20:45 GMT.
In a separate incident a male, whose age has not been released, was arrested after a laser was shone at an aircraft at Glenavy, County Antrim, at 23:30 GMT.

[lasernigel]

See two yobs who did it to an Air ambulance have got away with it. The British court system stinks yet again!!:mad::mad::ugh::ugh:

Yobs who shone laser pen in air ambulance pilot¿s eyes stopping him taking dying man to hospital walk free from court | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2115334/Yobs-shone-laser-pen-air-ambulance-pilot-s-eyes-stopping-taking-dying-man-hospital-walk-free-court.html)

[gorter]

See two yobs who did it to an Air ambulance have got away with it. The British court system stinks yet again!!:mad::mad::ugh::ugh:

Yobs who shone laser pen in air ambulance pilot¿s eyes stopping him taking dying man to hospital walk free from court | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2115334/Yobs-shone-laser-pen-air-ambulance-pilot-s-eyes-stopping-taking-dying-man-hospital-walk-free-court.html)

Words fail me. Especially after the judge's comments of it not being serious.

[lasernigel]

I am more than willing as a laser engineer with over 30 yrs of working on them, to start off an e-petition that makes it an offence under law to knowingly point a laser at any form of air transport. Further and I know some who have already been on this thread and think it is normal to be able to own a laser with a power > 3 mW, to have lasers licensed in the UK with a maximum power level > 3mW.
Would I have support that is the question to all you pilots and people who have a conscience?

[TractorBoy]

am more than willing as a laser engineer with over 30 yrs of working on them, to start off an e-petition that makes it an offence under law to knowingly point a laser at any form of air transport.

I thought it already was an offence.

[Tableview]

It was unlikely the helicopter would have saved the man who had suffered a cardiac arrest, the ambulance service said.

Ah, so that makes it OK. Good to know.

Magistrate Felicity Dowell told them: ..........

'I am sure that you did not do it to make the helicopter crash but it would have had that effect.

'You are very lucky it wasn’t very serious. One of you plays rugby - imagine if you were lying on the field with a broken leg waiting for the air ambulance and someone did the same thing.'

I would ask Magistrate Felicity Dowell how she would have reacted had the person concerned been one of her family members.

Banning these things from sale is not the answer, those who want them will always be able to obtain them and there must be thousands around anyway - I have at least 6 in a drawer at home which I used as pointers during presentations. The solution is exercising and publicising severe sentences on people like these thugs.

[DeepDene]

I'm no pilot - just humble SLF with some very peripheral involvement with aviation. I do know something about the law however and I humbly submit that the offence within the UK is fully covered by Article 222 of the Air Navigation Order, 2009, which states that it is an offence to "direct or shine any light at any aircraft in flight so as to dazzle or distract the pilot of the aircraft". It was enacted I believe specifically to tackle the growing menace of laser attacks on aircraft. A similar law has recently been enacted in the U.S.A. to make it a federal offence to commit such an act.

So, the problem isn't so much the lack of legal muscle, as magistrates and judges simply not taking the offence sufficiently seriously when sentencing. I would fully support any petition or other action, however I think the appropriate target in the UK should be the Home Office with the objective of encouraging clearer guidelines and stricter sentencing to the Courts.

[riverrock83]

I see as part of Olympic interception procedures
http://www.rin.org.uk/Uploadedpdfs/ItemAttachments/1220-web.pdf
a military helicopter can aim a laser at an intercepted aircraft. Who did the risk assessment on this? Is there not a major danger of blinding the pilot, especially as this will presumably be used only at night (and if a helicopter can intercept, presumably it will be a single pilot aircraft)?

[Flying Binghi]

.

...the problem isn't so much the lack of legal muscle...

Its also the fact we have the sea shepherd idiots glorifying laser muppetry by going around pointing lazers at ocean going ships. The last laser attack...


"...delivering a high-power laser beam toward the YS2 and YS3. The laser delivering lasted for about 50 minutes..."


http://www.icrwhale.org/pdf/120306ReleaseENG.pdf




.

[LHREM]

This is really very worrying.

[WanganuiLad]

Ships killing whales and lying through their teeth that it is 'research' hardly in the same category as aviation.

[Desert Dawg]

A green laser was shone at an incoming flight last evening in OMDB. The incident was reported to DXB tower but I don't know if it was acted upon.

Last year, we had a helicopter flying at treetop height over Mirdif (a suburb in Dubai right on the approach line to rwy 30L and 30R) looking for the scrotes....

Happens quite a bit in Dubai too apparently....!

[Jamie-Southend]

Ezy have started scheduled flights from SEN today, just heard last nights inbound positioning flight was subjected to some Green Lasers when on finals. :(

J

[MagnusP]

Some good news for the people at the pointy end.

BBC News - Christopher Paton jailed over l@ser pen attack on police helicopter (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-17785381)

[riverrock83]

BBC News - Christopher Paton jailed over laser pen attack on police helicopter (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-17785381)

At Glasgow Sheriff Court, Paton was jailed for nine months after admitting endangering the helicopter.Mind you - surely 1year 7 months isn't normal before something has gone through court and someone is sentenced?

[ULMFlyer]

Earlier this week, I was flying GIG-GRU as SLF on an American carrier, before continuing to the US. We took off from RWY 10 and were climbing RWY HDG more or less - I wasn't paying much attention, so we could have turned left at 500' to 063 HDG per one of the SIDs - before turning right to head SW/W towards GRU.

Before said turn, when we were across the bay overflying São Gonçalo with the Rio-Niterói bridge on our starboard side, I saw a flash by my window. When I looked down, I was hit in the eyes by a green laser which was clearly tracking us from a position on the ground between the #2 engine and the fuselage. It caused immediate pain, and a throbbing sensation and headache that lasted throughout the night.

When we landed at GRU, I asked to talk to the flight crew to confirm what I had experienced. Only one of them had seen it, but he said the cockpit hadn't been hit directly - which corroborated my observation of the laser's relative position to us. Then, both the Captain and F/O stated firmly that this happens all the time around GIG and GRU, though it seems to be more prevalent around the latter. They said they've filed numerous reports, but nobody seems interested in doing anything about it, which is a disgrace and an embarrassment in itself. :ugh:

If authorities don't listen to professional pilots, I doubt they'll listen to an SPL flying as SLF. In any case, I'm doing my part and filing an Operational Safety Confidential Report with Cenipa (Cenipa-27-Reporte Confidencial para Segurança Operacional-RCSO). If there's anything else I can do, I'm all ears.

[up_down_n_out]

It may be of interest for people to know, Paton was only nicked with a 40mW laser. So the hit will be of course be to the tax payer to bang him up for some time.

A Flashing Success | Letters to Earth (http://blogs.airspacemag.com/pettit/2012/03/a-flashing-success/)

With the current insatiable "mine's bigger than yours" craze, people claim to have hit the space station at 200 miles with ....yes believe it or not, ...

...these handheld 1W lasers are available for sale and orderable via the internet.
One chap claims to be able to build up to 2.4W units...

"Survival Lasers sells a 1.25 watt laser for under $150 here on the forum (http://laserpointerforums.com/f44/amateur-astronomers-flash-space-station-1w-blue-laser-72271-2.html). You can find home built 1.5-2.0 watt lasers for under $200 easily"


Currently costing a mere 180£ below, it's only a matter of time before some nutter points one at an a/c or even uses it off a motorway bridge or something!

Blue Laser Pointer 1 Watt | S3 Arctic | Spyder III | Wicked Lasers (http://www.wickedlasers.com/lasers/Spyder_III_Pro_Arctic_Series-96-37.html)

S3 Arctic 1 Watt Laser Review | GadgetReview (http://www.gadgetreview.com/2012/01/s3-arctic-1-watt-laser-review.html)

Laserglow Technologies - Handheld Lasers, Alignment Lasers and Lab / OEM Lasers (http://www.laserglow.com/GHE)

There are loads of outfits selling them.

Time to take some preventive action methinks.

FYI:-
The 200mW of 532nM green appears 6x as bright as 1 watt of 445nM blue laser.

I loved the disclaimer btw:-

"Laser pointers are a lot of fun, provided you don’t point it in an eye or try to hit a overflying airplane. But hitting the International Space Station is 100% OK, provided you communicate your intentions to an astronaut"

This little b:mad: can do 300mW.
https://sites.google.com/site/dtrlpf/_/rsrc/1320277216330/home/diodes/20119420551049691.jpg
ANTICIPATION, Forewarned is forearmed.

[727gm]

Speaking of l@ser attacks on aircraft....the PRK rocket that broke up prior to entering orbit after launch was possibly destroyed by the 747-mounted Airborne L@ser that was supposedly "retired to the boneyard" in February, but was actually featured in several photos on airliners.net on or about March 12 in landing/taxiing in Iwakuni, Japan. These photos have since been removed.......
interesting...

[ArthurR]

Heard on the radio yesterday about a police helicopter here (Ingolstadt) searching in for a missing child, being forced to land after pilot was affected by a laser beam in his eyes, culprit was a 13 year old child. Heard the chopper, but thought it was just a police night training excercise.....I live a short distance from the Danube, by a park, sometimes used by training flights.
No mention of the missing child being found. But this surely is a case of putting lives in danger.

[Tableview]

Lasers

It's unsafe to point

May 30th 2012, 17:31 by A.H. | TORONTO








CANADIANS seem to love playing with lasers, but rather than tease cats for hours on end, more than a few are pointing them at aeroplanes and causing serious safety issues. The number of aircraft getting "hit" with lasers jumped 25% to 229 last year and there have already been more than 100 incidents this year, reports Transport Canada (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1201463--laser-attacks-on-pilots-are-on-the-rise-records-show). This is despite the fact that anyone convicted of pointing a laser into an aircraft cockpit could get up to a C$100,000 ($98,000) fine and/or up to five years in prison under the Aeronautics Act.
At Calgary airport alone dozens of pilots report being temporarily blinded. "We do tend to see it more in the warmer months," said a WestJet Airlines spokesman (http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/240711/dozens-of-laser-incidents-reported-annually-by-calgary-pilots). "It's stupid, it's dangerous." Even police helicopters have been hit. "Some will even shine it at a plane and then shine it at us," said one policewoman. "It really startles you... some of these criminals are not the smartest."
That's putting it mildly. Lasers are distracting, but like a camera flash they can also cause temporary blindness, and the glare can prevent a pilot from seeing past the light, all of which could lead to an accident. Concern about the longer-lasting damage they can do to the eyes has led Calgary-based WestJet to contract a local ophthalmologist to examine pilots who have been hit.
Laser-pointing is also a growing problem in the United States, where the number of such incidents rose from 2,836 in 2010 to 3,592 in 2011. As a result Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) investigators are to "pursue the toughest penalties (http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=13555)" against the people involved. Those convicted of shining lasers at planes can now get up to five years behind bars and $250,000 in fines under a law enacted in February. That’s a big jump from the maximum penalty of $11,000 for one laser strike the FAA announced last year.
One Florida man earlier this month pleaded guilty (http://www.fbi.gov/tampa/press-releases/2012/orlando-man-pleads-guilty-to-aiming-a-laser-at-airliners-departing-from-orlando-international-airport) to aiming a green laser beam on at least 23 occasions at planes using Orlando airport. He said he suffered from severe anxiety because of jet noise. Here's hoping that any jail he is sent to is not on a flight path.

[rotornut]

Man handed conditional sentence for pointing laser at police helicopter (http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgary/handed+conditional+sentence+pointing+laser+police/6801488/story.html)

[fotoguzzi]

[Not a pilot] PDX terrestrial radio is really publicizing this to the point of mentioning the neighborhood where most of the rays are coming from. Hopefully people here will get the message that they shouldn't be doing that. The local radio also mentioned the May Utah story with some snippets of radio traffic.

I that does not help to clean up the problem, I will be surprised.

(Fifty-four reports at PDX this year already.)

[Admiral346]

AV Herald reporting injury to pilot's eye:

Accident: Jetblue E190 near Islip on Jul 15th 2012, a pilot injured by laser beam (http://avherald.com/h?article=452c18ad&opt=0)

[mathers_wales_uk]

Two laser attacks in a space of a week in the vicinity of Cardiff Airport. There was at least one arrest following the incidents.

Lives put at risk as laser attacks continue - click to view article (http://walesairforum.wordpress.com/2012/09/12/lives-put-at-risk-as-laser-attacks-continue/)

[2EggOmelette]

Ignorant indeed. This :mad: shone his one at 3 jets then the police helicopter that came to investigate. Got the little sod though.

Auckland Laser Pointer Put Flights In Danger | Stuff.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/7713434/Immature-laser-prank-endangered-hundreds)

[WanganuiLad]

The Auckland idiot was on the TV news tonight,
Quite good exposure, might discourage others down here
microphone shoved under his nose, asked 'why did you do it?'
Said idiot replied 'Can't really remember, it was a while ago...'

he got a few months home detention,
at least not a burden for the long suffering taxpayer

[707-348C]

A chap who pleaded guilty to a laser attack on an aircraft I was PNF has just been handed down a 6 month prison sentence.

Hopefully a deterrent to others.

[Admiral346]

I got hit today by green laser when approaching BRU just passing Liege. I immediatly reported to ATC, they confirmed the message and did nothing. No police, no further questions asked.
If you report this kind of event in Germany, police will be coming on board after arrival, taking statements and directing units towards the point of occurence according to your statement. Then a report is filed, and after a while you get mail from the state attorney updating you on the matter.

[eastern wiseguy]

Admiral...how do you know they confirmed the message and did nothing. No police, no further questions asked.

When I receive a report I KNOW where and when and at what altitude you were at ,at the time of the event. I then advise the local police who will discretely dispatch those resources they deem necessary.

This may include a police helo which will then "hope" to be lasered (until the ground guys show up). They are able to read the exact postcode to me if required.

[michaeljpotter]

During my stint with my local force (I was based around 12 miles from LHR) we had numerous reports from our controller re lasers etc. Caught a few of them sometimes. Problem is its very hard sometimes to find these culprits. By the time the message is sent to ATC which then passes it on to the local force in question and then the operator dispatches us to it, sometimes it may well have been 15 minutes by which time a lot of them are gone as they are usually kids messing around.
However the few times we have caught them they never got a friendly reception from me :=

[421dog]

okay...
I have wasted fifteen minutes of my life perusing the thread and the web trying to figure out why y'all are spelling "laser" "L@ser".

Would someone please enlighten this plebe prior to his humiliation/banishment?

Really, even a derisive pm would be much appreciated.

[malr]

I'd like to know too...

[The Ancient Geek]

Writing l@ser confuses search engines and keyword searches.

[mike-wsm]

Last time this was raised someone said it was to do with advertising, apparently the adverts at the bottom of the page respond to words in posts. In this instance relevant advertising is not desired.

[malr]

Ancient Geek and Mike WSM:

Thanks!

[421dog]

Thank you. I will resume my lurking...

[ricardian]

BBC reporting (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-19757803)laser attack on a plane flying at 8,000ft in the Castle Douglas area.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Anybody else want a permanent ban from PPRuNe for BLATANTLY advertising these dangerous tools for other idiots to use?

I suggest you read post number ONE and see how the courts deal with people who think its funny to point l@sers at aircraft. They each got 6 months and if I had my way it would be for much longer.

Don't do it. You endanger aircraft and the people in them.

[biocybertronics]

Your right it should be longer. However the problem is what do you charge them with.

I know a lot of post say attempted murder but you have to prove that was their intention, which I am sure a lot of them did not have the common sense to realize how dangerous it is and just thought it would be fun.
I am guessing the most you could bump the charges up to is reckless endangerment, unless something awful happens and it does cause the aircraft to go down then I guess you could do them for Manslaughter.

It’s a prime example of when technology and its availability surpasses the current laws, however due to increased amount of reported cases and the possibility of ending many lives, especially if it went down over an area like London, I am sure it could be amended and legislation put in quickly after all who would object to it, there is no interest groups on the negative side.

I also do not understand how these lasers can be purchased legally, what purpose do they serve?

[ATCO Two]

The existing legislation is more than adequate for prosecution. Air Navigation Order Part 19 Para 137 Endangering Safety of an Aircraft, and Part 28 Para 222 Lights which Dazzle or Distract are the relevant sections.

[biocybertronics]

The existing legislation is more than adequate for prosecution. Air Navigation Order Part 19 Para 137 Endangering Safety of an Aircraft, and Part 28 Para 222 Lights which Dazzle or Distract are the relevant sections.

What’s the maximum sentence for this though, there needs to be major jail time in my view for this.

I take it back, you can get life for it, the law is more than good enough, would be nice to see a judge give someone five years off the bat to send a real message.

[M609]

FWIW, I think the ACTUAL DANGER posed by these things (and the clots who wield them) is close to zero.

Not all lasers are equal..... I've had, on two occations, airliners asking to get taken off an arrival sequence to sort themselvs out a bit due to disorientation from laser. Both times on final, but still outside 10nm.

I've allso worked in a tower where a 412SP got hit with green laser while doing circuits on NVG, causing them to go off goggles.

[HAWK21M]

This needs to be made public....People need to be educated on the dangers posed by these laser lights.....Also maybe the airline can come up with shades to counter the lights.

[Pali]

The FBI Just Created a National Anti-Laser Attack Task Force:

FBI — Laser Pointer Attacks Taking Off: Pose Serious Threat to Aviation Security (http://www.fbi.gov/news/news_blog/laser-pointer-attacks-taking-off-pose-serious-threat-to-aviation-security)

[douglasheld]

This video embedded in this article is worth watching. The attacker is located and arrested.

Laser strikes against airplanes now an “epidemic,” says FBI | Ars Technica (http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/10/laser-strikes-against-airplanes-now-an-epidemic-says-fbi/)

[mathers_wales_uk]

I found this on the Western Mail / South Wales Echo website this morning - Laser pens are "putting lives at risk" warns aviation group (http://walesairforum.wordpress.com/2012/10/08/laser-pens-are-putting-lives-at-risk-warns-aviation-group/)

The current laws are not tough enough to deter those idiots that put lives at risk

[michaeljpotter]

We can all say the laws need to be tougher, believe me, having seen both sides of this argument as a police officer previously and now flying I agree there needs to be tougher penalties.

The problems lie in the logistics, the force concerned, the officer, their attitude and the resourcing.
To give you an example - I cannot obviously divulge too much info with breaking various laws I still pertain to as an ex cop but if we were pushed for resources (i.e. the less than a dozen officers on shift on a friday night covering almost a quarter of a county within 15 minutes of LHR dealing with domestics which are complete nonsense (like my sister broke my door down is considered a domestic,if anyone cares to look up the amount of domestic reports police go to in the u.k you'll be amazed at how much time is wasted, I do not agree with the way domestics are dealt with in the u.k)) we are just not able to respond to a job like this. We physically didnt have the resources, it sounds bad but thats the way it is. The police forces in the U.K are pushed to there limits with resourcing (im sure some of you have dealt with the police and had good or bad experiences).
Its not unheard of for a 999 call to go un-resourced or have a traffic officer or AFO turn up to a domestic because of the lack of resourcing available.
Central London (METPOL) has a massive budget in comparison to the 2nd biggest U.K force for example.
If your then able to respond to the job or have the time, how do you find them?
I always had an interest in aviation, so I made a point to go looking for them and find these little fiends (usually they are little) to make sure they knew what they had done.
I knew the section of the law that they could be charged under, that sort of specific law is not in police basic training. That would need a referral from a specialist unit and sometimes the time and effort sadly this requires deems an arrest void because the time can be better spent dealing with other things.
I apologise if this sounds like i'm beating a dead horse. But its really a hard thing to tackle.
What would I do? I'd increase the policing amounts on the ground, I'd get the communications from ATC to police officers in cases like this more of a direct link as opposed to 2 or 3 intermediaries.
Give F/D crew a way of actually having the ability to pinpoint the area and location at a quick glance then gps co-ordinates which take time to pass on and then mirror into an actual address.
Police go on street addresses not IRS systems.
At biocyber - in your instance, if god forbid something like that happened it would be a tough push but you might be able to get Involuntary Manslaughter to stick, but i'm not a lawyer and dont confess to be one so thats really something that the CPS would decide. I feel they have a lot to answer for.

[ricardian]

BBC report (http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/19952375) on laser attacks

[riverrock83]

BBC News - Jail term warning for shining laser pens at aircraft (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20087547)
Another prosecution. This time its a suspended sentence...

[Heathrow Harry]

time to equip passenger planes with (small) beam riding air - ground missiles? or a BIG laser to give them something to think about

[angels]

Agree HH - vis

Hellfire Missile On Insurgent In Iraq - YouTube

[DavidWoodward]

This one took place just around the corner from my house. You can sort of imagine young children/teenagers thinking it's funny but a 44 year old man is just ridiculous.

Man cautioned after shining high-powered laser pen at police helicopter over Dukinfield | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk (http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1591796_man-cautioned-after-shining-high-powered-laser-pen-at-police-helicopter-over-dukinfield)

[angels]

Gosh.

A caution. That's a massive deterrent.....:eek:

FFS. :mad:

[Rotor Work]

Man charged after laser beamed at aircraft


Police have charged a 37-year-old man after a laser beam was aimed at a commercial airliner and a police helicopter last night.
The suspect was found in the backyard of a house in the northern Gold Coast suburb of Ormeau.
Police allege he aimed a hand-held laser at the aircrafts just before 9pm (AEST).
The man has been charged with threatening the safety of people on board an aircraft.
He is due to appear at Southport Magistrates Court next month.

From ABC News
Man charged after laser beamed at aircraft - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-29/man-charged-after-laser-beamed-at-aircraft/4446894)

[I_know_nothing]

I'd be interested in the supply side of this. From my last two years summer hols in Turkey, it's apparent that you can basically get as powerful a laser as you like and give to your kids (or let them buy it).

When I remonstrated with a kid who shone a laser in my eyes, his Dad and a mate came looking for me and threatened me with violence.

I'm not going back to Turkey, but these things must be coming back in the thousands, in the hands of kids with parents like that.

[beamender99]

BBC News - Laser pens 'threaten Gatwick passenger safety' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-20942832)

Laser pens are sold as office equipment used to point out details on presentations

Home Office minister James Brokenshire said there were no plans to reclassify lasers as offensive weapons.

[Loose rivets]

Ad you were worried about kids. Even a bit of reflective stray would be a tad worrying.

The system, which uses two laser weapons, was also used to cut through a steel girder a kilometre away.


BBC News - Rheinmetall demos laser that can shoot down drones (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20944726)

[DeepDene]

The typical red laser office pointer isn't the problem here; these are much more powerful green lasers which can transmit a visible beam several thousand feet. They're typically used by amateur astronomers and hunters for pointing and aiming.

Thanks to unregulated offshore web vendors, you can import cheaply made green laser of ridiculous powers - way more than would be necessary for legitimate purposes.

[aussiepax]

Aussie courts act :

Laser pointer prankster jailed six months | thetelegraph.com.au (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/laser-pointer-prankster-jailed-six-months/story-e6freuy9-1226572053380)

[riverrock83]

Highlighted in BBC news today:
BBC News - Rise in laser pen attacks on airline pilots over London (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21348906)
252 reported incidents over London in 2012.

[jet_737ng]

Into muscat runway 26 , there always some nut with a green laser . Always thought trying to get our attention never knew he is trying to get attention of Aliens .. Damn distracting especially on approach at low altitude ...

[Bengerman]

Any approach into Cairo, lasers guaranteed!

[keitaidenwa]

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/351458221359259648/photo/1/large

Mixed feelings on this one - but flying an apache over a crowd of protesters and you are kind asking for it.

[riverrock83]

More pics / videos: Egyptian Protesters Painted a Helicopter With Hundreds of Laser Pointers | Gizmodo UK (http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2013/07/egyptian-protesters-painted-a-helicopter-with-hundreds-of-laser-pointers/)

And they like the military!

http://media.gizmodo.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/18sj63be6zrxpjpg.jpg

[jolihokistix]

As an extension of the above, the BBC yesterday even shows a 'positive' friendly slant to use of green lasers! :eek:
BBC News - Laser pens light up Egypt protests (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-23178484)

[saffi]

Same on dutch "news", brought as "protesters showing their gratitude towards the army by painting the aircraft green with lasers"....

A sharp contrast with pointing a laser at a police helicopter and being tracked down and prosecuted. Bit of a "mixed" message I guess.

[Cubbie]

Having experienced only one green beam shot at me, and knowing how blinding that is, I still can't imagine how bad it must have been for that crew in the Egyptian heli. Watching the Egyptian protests with the shear number of people with green laser pointers being used maliciously against people, cameras ,police helicopters etc, and considering the number of times they are used elsewhere, be it at a football match, drunk youths in city centers, or at landing aircraft, it must surely now be the responsible thing by all authorities around the world to ban these things. They are too cheap and readily available, and only being used for hostile purposes

[Tourist]

Alternatively, one might ask if 1000 green lasers shining on a helicopter at low level caused no problems, perhaps we need to untwist our panties a little re the perceived dangers.....

[Guest 112233]

Firstly: I totally agree that pointing one of these things at the crew of a low flying helicopter at night with the vehicle at low level in proximity to crowds of people is extremely dangerous and potentially lethal.

However if I were a peaceful protester exercising their right to publicly protest; at some risk of deadly response from the prevailing powers - I would consider in the application of such a device to alleviate the catastrophic effect of deadly fire: with or without warning, from the military vehicle, by temporary detraction of the fire crew, with he attendant risk of disorientating the flight crew.

I think the reports could have totally misrepresented the meaning of the underlying purpose, of the illumination of the helicopter and possibly misrepresented the seriousness of tensions being presented by both parties.

A powder keg of a situation.

Edit:- They have their industrial and scientific uses Stop public sales and use a stick at presentations. Hunting allow for night adaptation of eyesight or use NVG's

PPS: Even for Astronomy club nights out - There are programs (apps) which can provide night sky views on phones.

[Monoccular]

Recklessly endangering life??

[duncanTrevor]

A police investigation is under way after a l@ser beam was targeted at Aberdeen Airport last night. An airport spokesman told the Press & Journal: ‘There was a report of green l@ser light being directed onto the airfield from the Overton Garage area.'
Two airport employees reported seeing the light yesterday. Police and airport security staff swooped on the site where the l@ser light came from – a mile to the north-west of the runway.

[deptrai]

Switzerland is preparing a new law against ownership of dangerous lasers. Sale and reckless use are already prohibited, but clearly that's not enough. Outlawing ownership (without a permit, for legitimate uses) would give customs and police a possibility to prevent dangerous situations, instead of waiting until something goes terribly wrong. The problem isn't limited to aircraft. Swiss railways says dangerous situations occur every week, and cars, trucks, even football players are deliberately targeted. Some police forces are looking into (no pun intended) protective goggles.

I just researched protective measures - I was thinking, in theory there are relatively cheap dyes/coatings, why not just apply them to windscreens. The problem with current technology seems to be that protection against multiple wavelenghts significantly reduces all light transmission, which defeats the purpose of a windscreen. :uhoh:

[OldManRiver]

As both a pilot and a user of a Class II green laser, I understand the concerns. Admittedly something of a 'special case', I (and several of my colleagues) bought one because I undertake wildlife safaris and - for reasons that escape me - species such as elephant seem to react little, if at all, to a diffused green light, whereas a white light can send them bananas. When focused down to a parallel beam, however, I'd definitely classify it along with my firearms as a dangerous weapon, requiring similarly disciplined use and safety measures. If prosecution and adequately deterrent sentencing don't/won't work, maybe legislation & controls are indeed required.

[Go Smoke]

Got hit by a green laser as was passing through 2,000' to the south on SID out of LIRA a few nights ago. Only glancing hits.......distracting.

[Airbubba]

Saw a very powerful 532 nm green laser sweeping the hold short area of 25L at BCN. It seemed to be coming from an airport building on a hill beside the runway.

But wait, it's in the notams:

A0558/13 NOTAMN
Q) LECB/QMRXX/IV/NBO/A /000/999/4118N00205E005
A) LEBL B) 1307110000 C) 1309302359
D) JUL 11 0000-SR, JUL 12-31 0000-SR SS-2359, AUG 01-31 0000-SR
SS-2359, SEP 01-30 SS-2359 0000-SR
E) LASER BIRD DISPERSAL EQUIPMENT ON TRIAL
EQUIPMENT 1 PSN: 411656.60N 0020447.26E
EQUIPMENT 2 PSN: 411720.60N 0020556.51E
GREEN LIGHT TRANSMITTING IN ALL EXTENSION OF RWY07R/25L
EXERCISE CAUTION WHILE TAKE-OFF AND LANDING
CREATED: 10 Jul 2013 10:01:00
SOURCE: EUECYIYN

Folks, you can't make this stuff up... :eek:

[giggitygiggity]

I saw this on the 07R take off roll a couple of weeks ago, seemed to be coming from the other end of the runway out to the right. I looked it up on google earth and assumed that it must have been kids at the park that seems to be just next to the airport. What an awful system. Other chap didn't see it, it was only brief but distracting nonetheless. I couldn't be sure if this was the bird dispersal system or just a local idiot. Not impressed eitherway.

[st7860]

Yahoo! News Canada - Latest News & Headlines (http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybrew/incidents-lasers-pointed-aircraft-rise-canada-234059460.html)
Does anyone above the mental age of 12 still think aiming a laser at a passing aircraft is good, harmless fun?

What's the object of this exercise? The only thing I can assume is the person doing the pointing hopes for a reaction, for something to happen. What exactly? Forcing the aircraft to veer out of control, to crash maybe? I suspect if you asked, you'd get a smirking shrug for an answer.

Another judgment-challenged young man was arrested in Calgary this week for allegedly targeting a police helicopter with a powerful Type 3 laser, The Canadian Press reports.

The pilot was blinded momentarily while the chopper was on a routine patrol, police said.

"This caused extreme anxiety of our pilot," Insp. Guy Baker told CP on Thursday. "The potential for eye injury was great.

"And you can imagine, if you're temporarily blinded and you're operating a helicopter, what kind of precarious position that would put ... the pilot, the people inside the helicopter and of course people living on the ground."

A 19-year-old man faces a charge of mischief, as well as a charge under aviation legislation, Baker said.

[Dimitri Cherchenko]

A pilot of Swiss was blinded by a laser Wednesday night in the Lucerne area after taking-off from Zurich.

Arrestation: Un pilote de Swiss aveuglé par un laser - News Suisse: Faits divers - tdg.ch (http://www.tdg.ch/suisse/faits-divers/pilote-swiss-aveugle-laser/story/12011592)

[Machinbird]

There is new technology that will permit you to see normal colors including green at night while essentially blocking green laser attacks.

The technology involves an extremely narrow "notch" filter which blocks only the 532 Nm green laser wavelength without blocking nearby wavelengths, thus permitting normal color perception day and night.

If you do not need glasses, then there are protective glasses that you would wear defensively, perhaps for approach and departure only.

For those of us who now need glasses to meet vision standards, there will be a clip on version soon available.

I had an opportunity to try these on at a recent air show and they seem to do the job quite well.

The company's web site has the following news release:
New! LaseReflectTM Aviator Glasses!

Ottawa, Canada , July 9, 2013 Iridian is pleased to announce the launch of LaseReflectTM Aviator LRG10 glasses to reduce glare from laser pointer attacks on pilots, transportation operators, and law enforcement personnel. These Aviator LRG10 glasses reflect green (532nm) and NIR (1064nm) laser pointer wavelengths, minimizing glare while allowing high transmittance with minimal effect on colour perception.
The link to the web site is here Iridian - Home - Optical filter manufacturer for telecom, Raman, fluorescence applications (http://www.iridian.ca/english/view.asp?x=1)

[N4865G]

We have been departing LEBL 25L last night at 2030Z and we got a strong green laser beam spanning across the runway on takeoff roll.
Fortunately we noticed the beam searching for targets well before it hit us, so we were aware of it and looked away from the light source.

[roulishollandais]

I had an opportunity to try these on at a recent air show and they seem to do the job quite well.
Thank you for that information, and testing!

Astronomy amateurs are still too often using green lasers during stars watching meetings to show a point/star/observed galaxy position in the sky. They are used too to point a satellite or ISS. Sometimes it is a wrong observation and instead a satellite they point an aircraft!

Really astronomy amateurs do not need lasers, the chart of the sky is enough. A good organisation of the evening getting progressiveely darker helps beginners to navigate between increasing number of stars and learn that geography after good briefing . It is much better than agressive lasers.

Lasers used on telescopes as pointers are dangerous too when suddenly you discover an aircraft before the moon for instance and are turning quickly the telescopes toward the aircraft and the laser pointer with it!

Couldn't we have to do something like the radio qualification where we would be sworing proper use of lasers, learning the regulation and how and why laser is dangerous.

I am seeing that astronomy amateurs are totally unaware of the danger and discovering on that thread the very high frequency of lasers "attacks" conscious or not.
I listened that some astronomy amateurs around me were estonished to see police coming in the middle of the night:( and developped conspiration theory to explain such a visit.

The use of protective glasses or their clip version during critical parts of the flight surely would be useful, waiting ful protective coatings of the windshield.

[Romasik]

Anyone looking for tonns of data on this subject - welcome to Cairo! Tens of lasers point at every aircraft on approach at night. If you are late to switch off all your exterior lights, there is no escape as the aircraft is already shining green.
And your are talking about single beams here...

[keesje]

Amazing helicopter lit by laser pointers in Cairo!!! - YouTube

[lomapaseo]

Just noticed the video running in the post above with all the adds of where to buy the best lasers to light up an aircarft

[PPRuNe Towers]

...... A good link for newcomers to now see why we automatically mangle the 'L' word when ppruners type it in their posts on the site.

Rob

[MagnusP]

The high-power (>20W per beam) devices used in astronomical adaptive optics (they create artificial guide stars in the sodium layer about 90km up) are necessary for science, unlike the amateur "pointer" devices. Their use is co-ordinated with ATC centres, and observatories employ aircraft spotters just in case of unforseen events such as detours and diversions. Aircraft and coherent light can co-exist in harmony!

[Nicolaus Silver]

Dropped a line to Boeing re compound/materials used in cockpit windows asking if a laser resistant compound or covering is being researched.

Is there a fequency / power force that can disable the unregistered laser beam and or device either with an umbrella force field x miles around airports or around the nose of aircraft?

It is attempted murder and these jerks should be given at the very least the Cuckoo's Nest therapy.

[riverrock83]

Is there a fequency / power force that can disable the unregistered laser beam and or device either with an umbrella force field x miles around airports or around the nose of aircraft?
I think you've been watching too much Star Trek!

[Mike-Bracknell]

I think you've been watching too much Star Trek!

It's called a GBU-12 Paveway II :)

[Airbubba]

Gotta love the Fleet Street headline writers:

EXCLUSIVE: Laser horror as attempts to blind pilots puts UK passengers at risk | UK | News | Daily Express (http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/432928/EXCLUSIVE-Laser-horror-as-attempts-to-blind-pilots-puts-UK-passengers-at-risk)

[2dPilot]

Kent man got 4 months sentence for endangering the safety of an aircraft.

Young Sittingbourne man William Rye locked up for shining laser at Essex Police helicopter (http://www.kentonline.co.uk/sittingbourne_messenger/news/laser-shining-7125?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

"Not quite the whole ticket".... a lovely euphemism for "shouldn't be allowed lethal weapons" I submit.

Pity all aircraft aren't fitted with devices capable of pin-pointing the source.

[rhythm method]

It's a shame this idiot didn't get a custodial sentence. Judge gave 8 months suspended, despite another high court judge saying almost exactly 12 months ago that anyone shining a laser pen at an aircraft should expect to be jailed.

Laser pen 'could have killed Lady Gaga and other MTV stars at Belfast awards show' - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/laser-pen-could-have-killed-lady-gaga-and-other-mtv-stars-at-belfast-awards-show-29641239.html)

[G-F0RC3]

lol fizz :D

Seemingly lasers of the green wavelength are the more dangerous ones. Perhaps we need to simply ban those and only allow people to use red ones? Or am I talking bull?

Edit: btw, the above was actually posted at 09:25 BST on 09/10/2013 (i.e. after fizz's comment). Not sure what the server is doing. :)

[fizz57]

It's a shame this idiot didn't get a custodial sentence. Judge gave 8 months suspended, despite another high court judge saying almost exactly 12 months ago that anyone shining a laser pen at an aircraft should expect to be jailed.

Laser pen 'could have killed Lady Gaga and other MTV stars at Belfast awards show' - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/laser-pen-could-have-killed-lady-gaga-and-other-mtv-stars-at-belfast-awards-show-29641239.html)Perhaps there were mitigating circumstances...

[Skyjob]

As long as these devices can be purchased in ever bigger quantities with ever more quality for €5 on any holiday resort location in EU and beyond, intended for fun use in local nightlife, or in stationary shops to assist in those presentations given to anyone form students to the board of directors...

These attacks will continue to happen.

The public cannot be taught because some:
- don't want to listen;
- don't want to accept it's dangerous;
- think it's funny;
- practice to see if they can shine on that fast approaching aircraft having tried it on cars before...

We can and should all try and arrest the guy behind it.
But when approaching an airport at 140kts ground speed below 500ft AAL and a laser is shone at you from your 10 o'clock position in a residential area, it is hard enough to remain stabilized on approach with the distraction of a light show in the flight deck, let alone be expected to identify the location of the offenders so the police can go look for some possibly kids having acquired a laser during their last holiday playing on a street corner.

[Nicolaus Silver]

Union could kick up a fuss enough to make relevant state authorities to be made accountable* to legislate now and suggest:

(a) Lasers added to contraband list at customs.
(b) $100 tax at point of sale
(c) Only purchasable by registered users.
(d) If a laser found to be illicitly used its user jailed, importer and or wholesaler fined $x.
(e) Laser classified legally as a weapon.

Union could hit the relevant bodies with declaration that having been warned of the dangers that if a plane comes down/damaged then Congress, department and politicians are morally responsible. Pyro technics sales and usage have been legislated for at state/city level, now its time to regulate lasers.

But the Union approach must pilot a huge angle of attack to disturb Authority's still air and vortex them into pulling strings so Justice dept can act.

[WillowRun 6-3]

As PPRuNers assuredly already know, the root of aeronautics law is admiralty law and jurisdiction. So let's consider...in Her Majesty's Royal Navy in, let's say, 1853, if some person, let's call him "L" for l@ser, had pointed some device, let's say it was a 19th-century version such as a whale-oil lamp with a rig of mirrors and magnifying lenses, at the helmsman of a corvette as she was brought into port, what would L have been subjected to? If not a seaman, flogging seems unlikely. Jailing? Conscription into the nether-holds of the rottenest ship in the fleet? It would take some real legal research to determine the classification of the crime and its punishment, but I'd venture to say that interference with navigation indeed was known to the common law courts, or more likely the bench sitting in admiralty.

What is the contemporary equivalent? For interference with navigation, I would propose the punishment of conscripted civilian naval service: for one convicted of said offense, a minimum of 12 months aboard the LEAST rat-free vessel in the host nation's navy, confined to quarters adjacent to the galley, where L will work at washing dishes, pots and pans, and floor mats, and will not be allowed above decks other than for perfect conduct, obedience and behavior.

And no liberty allowed, port of call regardless. Though, if my own stint as a galley-swab-Eh?-platebuster is any guide or indication, liberties, and certain of them, would be taken.

[fotoguzzi]

Guy arrested in Oregon. This would presumably be at PDX, although the airport is not mentioned in the article.

Oregon Man Accused of Pointing Laser at Aircraft - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/oregon-man-accused-pointing-laser-aircraft-20637348)

"...it's hard to catch perpetrators because the beams are hard to track."

Damn those laser manufacturers for including the "slider," "curveball," and "knuckleball" options* on their products. Bastards!


* "Googly," "leg break," and "inswing" might be similar options for those who use wickets along with their bases.

[bugged on the right]

I have been on the receiving end of one of these and it was very distracting. I wonder if a partial solution might be to modulate the beam with a unique digital identifier code which is allocated to each device. When they are sold, the buyer must produce identification which then matches the device. Police aircraft and perhaps a percentage of civil aircraft are fitted with a decoding receiver.

[awblain]

Police aircraft carry spectrographs that can give a very good idea of whether the laser the scrote is arrested with is the one that was shone at the aircraft, if everyone has the time and inclination.

Last night travelling home through Frankfurt I had the first laser I'd seen shining at an aircraft I was on as we approached - a very bright green flash from south of the river west of the city that definitely got the overwing exit window. I saw it coming as a flickering green light, and then whack!

[MPN11]

FYI, yesterday's local paper advises that the Channel Islands Director of Civili Aviation is involved in drafting a specific law relating to aiming lights at aircraft and air traffic controllers in Jersey. Laser incidents have gone up in the last year at EGJJ, sadly.

Guernsey already has specific legislation, but as always 'our lot' take ages to achieve anything beyond relying, ineffectually, on the catch-all 'hazarding the operation of an aircraft'.

[Airbubba]

Police aircraft carry spectrographs that can give a very good idea of whether the l@ser the scrote is arrested with is the one that was shone at the aircraft, if everyone has the time and inclination

Are you sure about that? Do you a have a reference for the spectrographs carried by the police aircraft?

For example, the very common green 532 nm DPSS lasers put most of their power into a very narrow spectral line which I would think would be hard to use to tag individual units. These lasers are frequency doubled and diode pumped in infrared but most models attempt to filter out the pumping 808 nm and 1064 nm frequencies.

I guess you could try to generate a signature from the ratio of the three frequencies but somehow I'm not sure that would convince a judge that only a particular laser could be the culprit.

Lasers can be intentionally modulated with a code for identification of the beam as in the LANTIRN targeting system for the F-16.

Anyway, the feds are on the case at LGA:

FBI Investigating Following Recent Laser Attacks On Pilots « CBS New York (http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/10/18/fbi-investigating-following-recent-laser-attacks-on-pilots/)

“Laser pointers can be extremely destructive,” said CBS News aviation and transportation safety analyst Mark Rosenker, also a former head of the NTSB. “They don’t realize that the actual beam itself can be magnified going through the cockpit glass.”

Gee, I didn't know the cockpit glass could magnify the laser beam... :eek:

[underfire]

Any night vision equipment will pick up the beam. In the military, we would wear the cav-navs, and have battles with remote control units and laser pens.

There are many ways to make a LASER these days.

The most common is to get a read/write disk player from a computer. It is very easy to disassemble, solder 2 wires to what is there, and place this in a 6v maglight. Very common with Blu-Ray players to make a blue laser pointer...

The local high school kids, as a project, took a full size laser printer apart, the unit inside ran at 5W...so figure out what power that had compared to a laser pen...

There are many laser range finding devices out there as well, from gun sights to binoculars and survey equipment.

One thing, nothing you can do about stupid.

Perhaps a reflective film on the aircraft windows to prevent the beam from getting inside.

[awblain]

There was a BBC story about the devices, and they do exist, doing coarse frequency spectroscopy and time series analysis. Even if the scrotes don't believe they exist, are they willing to take the chance?

Having tried to post the links, there's now a question whether the automatic a-to-at-symbol conversion machine will let these links work.

BBC NEWS | Technology | Police fight back on laser threat (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7990013.stm)

SPIE | Proceeding | Laser event recorder (http://proceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org/proceeding.aspx?articleid=843729)

www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA507278

and then upscale:

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=laser%20event%20recorder&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDgQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.laserpointersafety.com%2Fnews%2Fnews%2F other-news_files%2Ftag-laser-event-recorder.php&ei=ekVpUu-lLO_60gX-loGQBw&usg=AFQjCNHJcr1LbXaOq8oEkc36nRkEFL6PWg&bvm=bv.55123115,d.d2k

[Airbubba]

There was a BBC story about the devices, and they do exist, doing coarse frequency spectroscopy and time series analysis. Even if the scrotes don't believe they exist, are they willing to take the chance?

Having tried to post the links, there's now a question whether the automatic a-to-at-symbol conversion machine will let these links work.


Thanks for sharing these links, I appreciate it. :ok:

It seems to me that the forensic analysis of these airborne systems probably is a little coarser than implied by the analogy of matching a bullet to a gun in the BBC quote by chopper pilot Mike Briggs.

I was skeptical that the spectral measurement alone could distinguish a particular consumer grade laser unit. The Optra/NAVAIR paper in the links gives the actual measured wavelength resolution of the Laser Event Recorder as 7 nm.

But, the GPS data, the superimposed image of the offending site and the power measurement probably seal the deal for the judge when an arrest is made. :D

[Westnest]

I misread it as "Losers attack on aircraft", and I was really curious if someone stoned a DHC-2 in an Alaska lake again.:\

[Mechta]

If these spectrographs identify one l@ser pen, how would they cope with, say 20 or 100 taped together in a bundle? Wouldn't the reading just become a blur? L@ser pens are cheap enough, so wouldn't anyone wanting to cause real trouble stand more chance of doing so, by grouping them?

[awblain]

If the scrote can coalign a pack of lasers to point within 10m at 10km, maybe he should be able to get a good job instead of endangering people. If anything, having several lasers just makes him more distinctive once he's nicked.

The beam likely spreads over a substantial distance without a launch telescope. Depending on the coherence, it's reasonable to expect a 0.5-mm aperture giving a resolution like the eye, or about 1m per km. There must have been some tool being used to keep it on you. I'd imagine some loser playing with a nightclub laser mount, or bad luck from an outdoor light show.

[Captaintcas]

When being subject to a laser attack ( yes, it is an attempt to harm your aircraft, crew and passengers), extingiush ALL exteriour lights at once. ( black-out ops.).
This will be the end of the attack.

[EEngr]

Crew snaps a picture of the offending l@ser, which records GPS location and attitude of phone. All of this can be used to calculate the beam trajectory and determine a rough source location on the ground. Photo plus source location automatically transmitted to some authority that can make rapid contact with the miscreant.
:8

[RVF750]

I got hit once going into LGW on a westerly approach. The beam came from a very distinctive edge of a town on my left. Police met me on stand and with Google Earth on the WPC's iPhone we narrowed it down to one of three houses in seconds. One contained a known person.....

Nice to have helped. Never got feedback on what they did though....

[Navialden]

I had an experience this summer that led me to think about pilot's awareness of the problem. Circling the circuit to land near Milan, I was passenger just behind the wing (night time). I was hit by a green light and it continued to span the side windows entering the cabin and creating some funny light game. When the acft turned for the final, laser entered from the opposite side. It continued for several minutes. The origin was clearly visible in a group of enlighted building on the ground. No FF/AA thought about a problem, they were going their dues until "cabin crew prepare for landing".
While disembarking I asked to talk to the F/O neare the exit, told him about the problem and he told me "don't know, maybe some disco lights". It was a monday night.
Maybe everyone wanted to go to bed asap, I was disappointed nevertheless.

[Gauges and Dials]

On the road, failure to dim one's brights ("high beams" if you speak American, "full beams" or "main beams" if you speak British) is hardly "attempted murder" Even deliberately shining them at an oncoming driver is considered a relatively minor infraction. On the seas, shining a searchlight into the pilot house of another vessel will get you a good sized fine, but it is not treated as a crime.

How much more serious than either of these two scenarios is it to shine Charles Gould's curious invention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser) at an aircraft? (you can call it that instead of futzing with at signs). I'm thinking that the latter is capable, theoretically, under perfect conditions, of causing permanent vision damage whereas neither of the former are. But in reality, barring enhanced, weaponized blinding systems which would entail high power and a stabilized platform, how serious is it in practical terms if some yutz waves a store-bought pointing device skyward?

[Skyjob]

how serious is it in practical terms if some yutz waves a store-bought pointing device skyward?

I welcome you to join us in our 'office in the sky' and find out for yourself the effects a sudden unexpected laser light being shone into our 'office' can create. You seem or appear to have a lack of the knowledge of experience in this very dangerous matter.

Unlike in a car we continuously scan our instruments, and when approaching to land look both inside and outside repeatedly to ensure a safe outcome of the flight.

Searchlights, beacons, all lights similar to those you described, none of these bother us when flying in the slightest. They are all around airfields and we see them daily. But lasers are a different issue.

Lasers can temporarily blind you or in worst case scenario both of you, while manoeuvring close to ground at very high speed in an until then controlled vehicle far in excess regarding speed and weight then any car travelling the roads ever will. If it doesn't blind you it will startle and distract you maybe enough from achieving a stable approach with all possible results.

One day such vehicle will have an accident and the results will be disastrous, but the aircraft upon investigation will be another perfectly serviceable machine, brought down by human error.

[DogSpew]

Reading SkyNews this morning it seems that another clown was arrested last week here in the UK for shining a laser at a Police Chopper. Using their equipment they were able to track him down and make an arrest.
However yesterday he was left off with a caution. The only people taking this problem seriously is the aviation fraternity. Seems that the law system is still living in their cotton wool world. Pathetic!

Will it take a loss of an airframe and multiple deaths to make a difference? Even then I still fear that the law society still won't get it.

:yuk:

[le Pingouin]

Flash blindness for starters. Imagine riding a motorbike down a steep and windy road at speed on a dark night and someone deliberately firing a camera flash off right in front of your face. What are the chances you'd stay upright?

[angels]

Will it take a loss of an airframe and multiple deaths to make a difference?

Sadly, the answer to your question is a resounding "no".

After the tragic events of the weekend which show how dangerous an out of control chopper is -- whatever causes it -- this lowlife gets a caution. :mad:

[Capt Scribble]

The level of danger presented by Lasers can be gauged by the incidents reported in real life. To my knowledge Laser illumination has not caused anything other than a minor irritation to the crew, and there must be loads of idiots trying this out. That is not to say that a high power Laser as can be found on the internet could not cause lasting damage but most reports seem to see the flash from the ground and get on with the job in hand. Riding a motorbike is not quite the same game, otherwise napping in flight would not be permitted by my Ops Manual.

[le Pingouin]

Single pilot ops? Helicopter ops? Hand flown ops? Not everyone flies a multi-engine jet with all the whiz-bang gear.

[Gauges and Dials]

You seem or appear to have a lack of the knowledge of experience in this very dangerous matter.


Yes, that's precisely why I asked the question.

[aussiesteve]

If only we could get one past security and fight them back.

To any spotters I'm sure it would be quite a show.

[ricardian]

FBI (http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2014/february/protecting-aircraft-from-lasers) announce a program aimed at deterring people from pointing lasers at aircraft—a felony punishable by five years in jail—and rewarding those who come forward with information about individuals who engage in this dangerous activity.

[deptrai]

The level of danger presented by l@sers can be gauged by the incidents reported in real life. To my knowledge l@ser illumination has not caused anything other than a minor irritation to the crew

Unless you're a master of understatement, you're wrong - a few have already suffered permanent damage to the cornea. Admittedly very few, but I can't see (no pun intended) why that should be tolerated, or downplayed. And it's neither "incidents" nor "accidents", it's assault causing bodily harm. I applaud every measure taken to stop it.

perhaps a reflective film on the aircraft windows to prevent the beam from getting inside.

I've wondered about that as well, but the problem is that current coatings, if you want to block all common laser wavelenghts, block too much of the entire visible light spectrum as well. Defeats the purpose of a window. Glareshields/visors or goggles are a better compromise, but really shouldn't be necessary to deal with lasers.

[Flaps_at_45]

I had this twice happen to me, both times on A Wellington NZ approach that is at the best if times challenging enough. Thank God 2 times without cross winds as worse might have happened.
In no case could I identify where the beam came from. Police was informed but could not do anything.

[awblain]

Deptrai,

I'd be very surprised if anyone onboard an aircraft had corneal damage from being shone on with lasers, unless they were disoriented as a result and stuck something into their eye.

Lasers are a serious matter for distraction and loss of night vision, but I'd say that the chances of retinal damage, much less corneal damage, from mW lasers that are at least hundreds of meters away without launch telescopes has to be small. The cornea evolved not to absorb visible light. To do eye surgery you need 0.1W laser flashes, all falling on the cornea.

Flaps,

Tell the police what you see every time - the beams are easy to spot and an alert cop next time might well be able to get a fix on the launch site. Any imaging from a police helicopter that could be within sight at the time could almost always locate the source to an address. They might even be able to get a decent idea of the location from dashboard camera footage from different angles.

[AKAAB]

I can attest that the damage potential is much higher than we all assume. I was targeted a couple of months ago while on approach. The green laser hit me several times and I had a white stripe/after image in my left eye for 3 1/2 days. For more than two days I had focal migraines. Needless to say, I was grounded.

My initial retinal exam was nominal, but the Doc put me on anti-inflammatory eyedrops and noted a corneal vacuole in my eye on my return visit. His initial exam was very detailed and methodical (laser mapping of my retina - ironic) and he believes the vacuole was caused by the laser. The result is a risk that it will turn into a cataract years later.

My first officer was out a little longer than me because his ophthalmologist found minor corneal damage. It was his second time getting lasered in flight.

We were low enough that I was able to point out the exact origin of the laser to the police using Googlemaps. However, they didn't apprehend anyone. I'm hoping the FBI reward being offered will jog some memories and bring this idiot to justice.
:sad:

BTW - while doing a little research, I discovered that there are 1000mW rifle laser sights that advertise a range of 10,000 meters. Do the math...

[deptrai]

I'd be very surprised if anyone onboard an aircraft had corneal damage from being shone on with l@sers, unless they were disoriented as a result and stuck something into their eye

It's a question of energy output and distance. Some people make "laser pointers" out of high-power industrial diodes scavenged from various sources - these are not your average "toy" pointers. I would not at all be surprised if they cause serious damage to the eyes of a helicopter pilot at close distance (and if you make it a single pilot, you have all the holes in the cheese lined up).

Even at longer distances, one could imagine various unfortunate scenarios.

[awblain]

That's a very interesting and worrying report.

Up at ~Watt powers and with a telescope, and close to the source, then it would become an issue. If people are doing this close enough and with enough power to cause medically-verified injuries, then it's a different question, and I think it moves the offense to unavoidable charges of "attempted murder".

Your "stripe" afterimage indicates a high power as your eye automatically tracks to a bright source.

[MrSnuggles]

In Sweden it is now illegal to purchase, own, sell and/or use l-ser pointers more than 1mW strong (classes 3R, 3B and 4.). The new law is in place from the 1st Jan 2014*.

The Swedish government agency Transportstyrelsen welcomes reports on incidents with l-ser pointers at any Swedish airport so please do report it if you encounter it when visiting Sweden!

More information in Swedish is available here: Skärpta regler för starka laserpekare från 1 januari 2014 - Strålsäkerhetsmyndigheten (http://www.stralsakerhetsmyndigheten.se/start/Laser/Skarpta-regler-for-starka-laserpekare-fran-1-januari-2014/)

To file a special report regarding l-sers, contact ATC. In case they are ignorant, here is the form to use; http://www.transportstyrelsen.se/Global/Blanketter/Luftfart/Tillbud_och_olyckor/L1629-4_Handelserapport_privat(engelsk_text).pdf


*For any l-ser pointers stronger than this, a special approval is needed from the government agency Strålsäkerhetsmyndigheten.

[Flying Lawyer]

New Zealand has introduced two new laws, effective 1st March 2014, relating to the importation, supply and acquisition of laser pointers with a power of more than 1 mW:

The Custom Import Prohibition (High-power Laser Pointers) Order 2013 (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2013/0485/latest/DLM5714505.html?src=qs) restricts importation to people who have consent from the Director-General of Health.

The Health (High-power Laser Pointers) Regulations 2013 (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2013/0478/latest/DLM5714621.html?src=qs) restrict supply to authorised suppliers and acquisition to authorised recipients.


The NZ Parliament is also considering whether there is a need to control the possession of high-power laser pointers.
A Members Bill, sponsored by Dr Cam Calder MP, proposes to amend the Summary Offences Act to create an offence to be in possession of a laser pointer in a public place without a reasonable excuse. A similar offence currently exists for knives.