Merged: Tiger Tales

[tiptoeturkey]

Tiger Airways announces 120 new jobs | Herald Sun (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24049942-661,00.html)

[flyer_18-737]

New destinations coming online?

TR sending some planes down under mabye

[Tester Call 121.5]

Maybe new base being added to network also.

[flyer_18-737]

I dont know about the 2nd Hub going ahead, but 120 people is good for industry. Thats 60 for John Holland, at least 15 or so Pilots and around 45 cabin crew. Thats about 2 A320's worth
Tiger Airways signed a contract with Melbourne based John Holland Aviation Services to expand its current engineering support arrangements to also include major heavy maintenance ‘C’ Checks of Tiger Airways’ Australian based Airbus aircraft.

Shelley Roberts, Managing Director of Tiger Airways Australia, said “Tiger Airways could be doing
this major maintenance anywhere in the world, but John Holland Aviation Services has both the
facilities and top notch people here in Victoria to ensure a first class job, at a competitive price. This
means that Tiger Airways can continue to provide our passengers not only the lowest fares in the
country but also ensure that Tiger Airways maintains its position as Australia’s most reliable airline.”

Tiger Airways is leading the pack in Australian aviation for consistent reliability with not a single
cancellation and excellent punctuality in both April and May. In June bad weather caused the
cancellation of just 2 Tiger Airways flights, whilst our competitors cancelled thousands of flights in
the same three month period.

Shelley Roberts added “John Holland Aviation Services has already demonstrated its reliability and excellence in engineering services through the routine daily maintenance of our Melbourne based aircraft and they have shown that they have what it takes to work successfully with Australia’s only true low fare
airline.”

In addition, Tiger Airways is pleased to announce that it is commencing recruitment of over 60 additional pilot and cabin crew positions to operate additional brand new aircraft arriving later this summer. These additional jobs at Tiger Airways come at a time when other airlines are slashing jobs and when Melbourne Airport has achieved record increases in passenger numbers driven largely by the entry of Tiger Airways into the Australian market.

Shelley Roberts said, “The Victorian Government has shown tremendous vision in attracting Australia’s only true low fare airline to Melbourne. Not only does the community reap the benefits of more highly skilled aviation jobs but also these passenger numbers released by Melbourne airport show that the government’s strategy for tourism is also working. Other governments across Australia and the world could learn a lot from the Victorian government.”

[DrPepz]

Tiger Airways Australia can maintain its planes efficiently in Australia. After all, it's a waste to fly an A320 MEL-DRW-SIN, have it serviced in SIN, then send it back to MEL via DRW.

Which begs the question - Why is QF unable to maintain its aircraft efficiently in Australia?

If SQ has a problem with any of its aircraft, they just send it back to SIAEC down the taxiway who would have records of the aircraft from day 1. Now when TT has a problem with any of its aircraft, they just send it down the taxiway to John Holland.

How QF uses a myriad of suppliers from Singapore to KL to Manila, Avalon and Hong Kong is just mind boggling? A checks in LAX, C checks in Avalon and D checks in SIN.

I'm not an aircraft engineer, but how does QF maintain quality control over its maintenance when they're done by so many different suppliers all over the place? It's just like sending a sick patient to many doctors who have no records of his medical history - No matter how good the specialist is, isn't it a recipe for disaster? Or is aircraft maintenance simply such a striaghtfoward thing that you just follow the cards, get the LAME to sign off on it and send the aircraft out?

[porch monkey]

"Our competitors cancelled thousands" So the bull**** war starts. Thousands???? Not hard to stay on time when you anly have 3 or 4 a/c and only serve one of the major ports in the country huh. Come and tell us how you go when you serve all ports, including the congested ones and you have 50 or 100 a/c in the fleet. Talk about spin......:rolleyes:

[tasdevil.f27]

No not that hard, anyone can use a giant staple gun and a roll of duct tape :oh:

I guess its cheaper for uncle Geoff to do repairs o/s on his aircraft and the money saved goes into his pay rises. :mad:

[parabellum]

Was it ever proved, beyond all reasonable doubt, that SIAEC was responsible for the 'stapling' saga?

[kiwi engineer12]

An additional 60 people at JHAS to support 2 extra planes? (I take it they are talking about 2 x 319's coming online at the end of the year)

The boys at JHAS wouldn't have a problem with their current levels of staff to handle the extra work at this stage surely....
2 more daily/weekly checks a day, and 2 extra 'A' checks a fortnight isn't all that much, and I'm sure they can rope in the contractors come 'C' check time if needed.

Are they adding a few more than 2 A/C to the fleet?

Good to see JHAS/Tiger doing well though.

[flyer_18-737]

Hearing strong rumours about some Singapore A320's coming down. TR are losing too much over there with all those 4/5/6 hour sectors which mainly are every route it flies.

Im confused about the Deliveries from Toulouse though, but around 2010/11/12 is when there will be a huge influx of deliveries. Australia will become Tiger's main location for its business.

60 orders. If fuel remained at current levels, you would think majority would come to Australia(shorter runs), and be turned into A319 aircraft..

[apacau]

Heard tonight (off another board) that all Tiger DRW flying ends in October. That's MEL-DRW and SIN-DRW...

[F111]

From ninemsn

Tiger axes flights to Darwin22:50 AEST Thu Jul 31

Tiger Airways has axed its services to Darwin from Melbourne and Singapore, blaming high fuel and operating costs in Darwin for the decision.

Services to Darwin will be suspended from October 26, Tiger chief operating officer Steve Burns says.

The costs of flying to Darwin were the highest of all the airports the airline served, he said in a statement.

"This is an important point to stress: combined airport and fuel costs in Darwin cost more than any of the 27 airports that the airline serves across Australia and Asia. It is just incompatible for a true low-fare airline to operate to such a high cost destination," he said.

The airline might re-establish services to Darwin "if costs become more reasonable", he said.

Flights booked prior to October 26 will go ahead.

No Australian domestic flights have been booked to Darwin beyond that date.

Tiger will offer a full refund to international passengers booked after October 26, he said.

[Mr.Buzzy]

Always a boom before the bust.....

bbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzz

[flyer_18-737]

Seeing as its a O/N service, I doubt we will see any replacement. These days it would be cheaper for them to just leave the A/C there O/N

[tinpis]

Stay at home folks,the p!ss is cold and the weather warm...:ok:

Well timed announcement with NT election in full non-swing, not that it will make any difference

[Prado]

I don't think DN will be the last Tiger port to get the a#se. One would suggest that all the positive spin Tiger have been putting out lately about how their weathering the high fuel costs is just that.

Interesting that J* announces today it is expanding its DN operations. One wonders what the cost differential is for Tiger vs J* at DN airport?

Cheers
Prado.

[SIDSTAR]

Well if the spin that the gov is putting in 3m over a few years into marketing, does it mean Jet* has the Tiger by the tail? Are they just far more savvy? Or do they line the right pockets?

[flyer_18-737]

Tiger certainly needs some $$$ for advertising. The last time I saw Tiger advertise was 6months ago in Page6(expensive or what!) of the Herald Sun

Lets hope the new MD changes a few things......

[coaldemon]

I understand that one of the more recognisable faces at Tiger was seen doing interviews elsewhere recently..........

[apacau]

Tiger drops Darwin, Jetstar boosts Darwin. Jetstar closes Adelaide base, Tiger... (is soon to announce its 2nd base)

[EXEK1996]

I understand that ADL is to be the second base.

Info from ADL Airport Management

[flyer_18-737]

are you SURE?

SO they just blabbed it out to you then?

[Tester Call 121.5]

official. 2 x A319 early next year.
More a/c as required.
good things for all I say.

[Tester Call 121.5]

Tiger sets up second home in Adelaide

Email
Print
Normal font
Large font
August 5, 2008 - 12:33PM
Advertisement

Tiger Airways Australia will set up a second Australian base in Adelaide.

The budget airline expects more direct flights from Adelaide to new destinations will result in more than 10 million additional passengers using the South Australian airport over the next eight years.

Tiger Managing Director Shelley Roberts said the addition of a second base for Tiger Airways would almost double the number of annual low fare seats being made available in Australia to more than three million per year.

Tiger Airways will initially base two of its A319s in Adelaide from early next year, with the expectation that additional aircraft will be based there over the next eight years depending on consumer demand.

"This investment by Tiger Airways of more than $105 million in aircraft assets in Adelaide means more jobs in South Australia with Tiger Airways recruiting pilots, cabin crew and support staff to be based locally in Adelaide," Ms Roberts said.

Premier Mike Rann welcomed the decision, saying the cumulative benefit to the state economy could be up to $100 million over 10 years.

"This will give interstate visitors more affordable opportunities to travel to South Australia for their holidays - injecting valuable tourism US dollars into the local economy," the premier said.

[Teal]

From crikey...

Tiger Airways has no-one to blame but itself Martin Kelly, Editor of Travel Trends (http://redirect.cmailer.com.au/LinkRedirector.aspx?clid=1a8b6e60-58b6-4090-a6f6-70dcb5b0f4e9&rid=70ac6a9f-9f82-4748-a87c-e55bbfe757f1), writes:

Tiger Airways is full of it. News, I mean. Last week, Tiger announced it was stopping all Darwin flights from October 26. This came a couple of months after it withdrew from Newcastle. As usual, the carrier cited external rather than internal factors. Chief Operating Officer, Steve Burns, was reported in Travel Daily as saying that Darwin was its highest cost port. "It is just incompatible for a true low fare airline to operate to such a high cost destination," he said. So why did Tiger fly there in the first place? Sure, fuel prices have increased but no mention in the rhetoric of an increase in airport fees. Therefore the real reason would appear to be that Tiger has badly misjudged demand, not once but twice -- Newcastle and Darwin.

Mistakes such as these are a long way from the big statements made by CEO Tony Davis when Tiger first came to Australia, about how the Asian low-cost carrier would fight for the little guy, taking on the goliaths of Australian aviation: Qantas, Jetstar and Virgin Blue. The message from Davis was that Australians were getting ripped off and that Tiger would bring in lower fares. This very basic PR strategy got some short-term coverage but was diluted by the fact that low-cost carriers were nothing new in this market, unlike Asia. Furthermore, it’s a ploy that’s been used before in Australia, and to much greater effect, by the likes of Brian Grey (Compass), Virgin Blue and Jetstar. As a PR message, it also left Tiger with few places to go. Tiger is cheap, what else? Oh, you’re getting picked on. Davis then started complaining about the raw deal Tiger was getting from Qantas, which for example refused to provide ground-handling for its rival at Alice Springs. Not much public sympathy there because the Qantas stand seemed to make sense – why help a competitor? Some in the industry also started wondering how well-prepared Tiger actually was for this market, where Qantas has been fighting low-cost incursions since the early 1990s.

Now serious questions have to be asked about Tiger’s network strategy, which revolves around flying to 10 mostly smaller destinations from Melbourne. Certainly, its decision not to service Sydney or Brisbane is looking flawed, while there must be some pretty nervous staff working in leisure ports such as Mackay, Rockhampton, Launceston and Alice Springs. The next six months may well determine whether the carrier has a long term future in this market. Whatever happens, Tiger needs to take responsibility for the outcome.
and this...
Tiger and Jetstar in battle of spin

Ben Sandilands writes:

Almost under the radar -- compared to the saturation coverage of Qantas -- a fierce little battle for incentives-to-fly is going on between Tiger and Jetstar. On Friday, Tiger announced it would quit Darwin only a few hours before Jetstar was heaping praise on the NT government, the airport and the local industry for its "support" in making the top end capital its new "hub" for northern Australia. Figures of around $3 million worth of "support" were mentioned by informed sources. It doesn’t matter what the amount was, as there is nothing improper or illegal in Australia in carriers leveraging all sorts of concessions or commitments to start or expand services.

Tiger did the same thing when it chose Rockhampton and Mackay as Queensland destinations, choices which may have been wrong given that it has stopped selling those flights from late October pending a review. Virgin Blue has used the same tactics in its expansion. It muscled in on the Qantaslink routes to Port Macquarie and Albury the same way, and today announced it would do the same thing in Mildura, using real jets instead of stuffy little turbo-prop buzz boxes like its competitors.

Tiger seems to have real problems in Australia. Since it launched last November it has been easily rolled out of any market Jetstar chooses, having been sent packing from Newcastle and now Darwin the moment the Qantas subsidiary became serious about extra flights and similar fares.But Tiger spokesperson Matt Hobbs claims this will all change soon, when it announces new but unspecified plans for the Singapore-owned venture.

In the meantime, both Tiger and Jetstar are misusing the term "hub" and "base" for what are only exercises in parking jets overnight for better scheduling, and paying for the cheapest accommodation they can get for the crews. The Darwin Jetstar "hub" involves three jets from the middle of next year. Tiger's new Adelaide base, where incentives may have been easy to pick up after Jetstar said it was closing its own, is where two Tiger jets will park. "Hub" in the real world means Changi, or Chicago’s O’Hare airport, with banks of hundreds of flights arriving, connecting and departing within a few hours.
Tiger even claims to have invested $105 million in aircraft assets in Adelaide. Really? No-one ever pays that much for a few small Airbuses, and they do fly all over the country.

Will the general media swallow the hype? Probably.

[EXEK1996]

No they did not blab it out to me...she whispered romantically in my ear....yes I am sure.....

[Metro man]

Audited profit figures out

Tiger Airways profit takes flight - Breaking News - Business - Breaking News (http://news.theage.com.au/business/tiger-airways-profit-takes-flight-20080807-3rom.html)

Tiger Airways profit takes flight


Budget carrier Tiger Airways said it had booked a net profit of $S37.8 million ($A30.1 million) in the financial year to March, despite higher oil prices and stiff competition.

The carrier said the earnings from its Singapore operations reversed a loss of $S14.3 million ($A11.3 million) in the previous fiscal year and met a pledge to be profitable within its third year of operation.

Tiger, 49 per cent owned by Singapore Airlines, said revenues rose 56 per cent to $S271 million ($A215 million). It said it had a cash balance of $S19.6 million ($A15.6 million).

The firm said operations from Singapore contributed the profits as its new Australian domestic service was still expanding.

"Even with the challenging market conditions and current oil prices we remain confident about the long-term success of both our Asian and Australian based airlines," said Tiger chief executive Tony Davis.

"We continue to see strong demand for our low fares and we are committed to continued growth as we expand our operations in both Australia and Singapore."

Tiger Airways did not give net profit figures for the fiscal first quarter to June, but said there was a 57.8 per cent increase in revenue, a 64.9 per cent rise in seat capacity and that passenger numbers climbed 73.7 per cent.

Davis said the airline was able to cope with higher fuel costs by hedging against price rises and maintaining disciplined cost control.

"Clearly oil has been a challenge for all airlines. But ... we're not seeing the impact that some other airlines are seeing in Europe and North America of reducing demand," Davis told reporters.

He said the firm was making sure it could cope with higher oil prices, but stood ready to take advantage of a correction in crude costs.

Oil prices were trading below $US120 a barrel after falling from all-time peaks above $US147 last month.

Tiger Airways connects Singapore with destinations in South-East Asia, China, Australia and India.

© 2008 AFP

[flyer_18-737]

Mabye ADL crew would operate the MEL sectors leaving more room for MEL to expand.

Routes like ASP, MCY need more sectors..they are just overflowing

[flyer_18-737]

Seeing as there will be a fair bit of ADL announcements from TT soon, might as well put them all in one place

They have announced MEL-ADL now going 6 Daily from 15th December

A319's start services on 1st Feb while a new A320 comes to MEL mid December....

[Aussie]

Any truth to the rumour that they are opening an Adel Base for Flight crew?

[maryparlalis]

Not a rumour .Will have an operational base by mid Jan 2009.

[flyer_18-737]

Adelaide Hub flights are TT800 flight numbers while Melbourne Hub is TT500 flight numbers

TT800 numbers are operated by A319 aircraft...

[Aussie Insider]

A little birdy also told me that they are taking over the old terminal.

[flyer_18-737]

Im trying to find the old terminal on Google earth. Where abouts is the old terminal?

[Aussie Insider]

It's the one on the western side of Richard Williams DriveCant miss it. It is the bit between the Qlink 717's are and where that NJS BAE is taxiing out. on google earth that is!

[flyer_18-737]

I see it. Looks like a big terminal for Tiger, and theres plenty of room. What the terminal like itself, Do you guys have links to photos?, is it shabby?

[apacau]

A little birdy also told me that they are taking over the old terminal

Another little birdy (who works for AAL) tells me you're wrong and suggests that the old terminal may be demolished...

But things may of course change...

[Keg]

What the terminal like itself... is it shabby?

Yes. It was shabby two years before they moved out of it into the new terminal and they did nil work on it in those last two years. It's a dump.

Should be perfect for Tiger! :E

[Aussie Insider]

Yes apacau a little birdy also told me that!Although a demolition is highly unlikely

[sthaussiepilot]

Actually from what I herd from certian Adelaide Airport Lease managment people is that...

Alliance, Tiger, Air South, Jetcraft will all move into the old terminal, as the current General Aviation Terminal (across from the main terminal) is being demolished and turned into a hotel, soon-ish....

So old terminal will be come general aviation, Alliance and Tiger....

Should be good when they get all the rats, cobwebs, and dust everywhere...

Try and get a tour inside, you'll actually feel sicker after being in there, its quite bad they have let it get that that...

[Aussie Insider]

Yeah, i also heard that they were looking at building a hotel in their a bit like MEL with 3-4 levels of car parking.

Car parking in ADL is a disgrace and definetly needs to be addressed!:ok:

[sthaussiepilot]

The whole of Adelaide Airport is a sham....

it needs an entire rebuild

I love the terminal, but it is not built for growth, it is struggling now.... (mainly with INTL atm)

and with the hotel, did you also hear they want to build a sky bridge from the main terminal over to the hotel?

I herd that aswell dont know if thats true...

[Aussie Insider]

Yes, I have heard that along the lines somewhere, its all talk i think!

[flyer_18-737]

Tiger is in a bit of a pickle, in terms of their Aussie Sub and a Shareholders perspective

TIGER AIRWAYS has continued to keep under wraps the financial performance of its Australian operations amid industry speculation the budget carrier has suffered losses in the tens of millions since it started domestic flights out of Melbourne last November.
Tiger's parent company sought a three-month extension to file its full-year financial accounts with Singaporean regulators last month, but financial information from the budget airline reveals its Australian arm lost about $S28 million ($23 million) in its first four months of operation.
If true, the losses counter the upbeat rhetoric of Tiger's chief executive, Tony Davis, on the inroads the carrier has made into Qantas-Jetstar and Virgin Blue's share of the domestic market.
The estimate has been arrived at by reconciling the $S37.8 million profit reported by Tiger's Singaporean operations two weeks ago and comments made by the chief executive of Tiger's main shareholder, Singapore Airlines. Chew Choon Seng told analysts at a profit briefing earlier this year he was not betraying any confidence in saying profit for the 2007-08 financial year came close to $S10 million. "They are ahead of business plans, he said.
If this is the case, Tiger Australia - which is Tiger's only operation outside Singapore - would have lost about $S28 million for the period.
There are suspicions Tiger Australia's losses for this financial year may have deepened, with oil prices surging as much as 43 per cent to a high of $US145 a barrel since the end of March from about $US101. Tiger has declined to comment on the estimates.
"We will be coming out with the consolidated Tiger Aviation accounts when they are ready," said a Tiger spokesman.
Mr Hobbs said the extension Tiger sought from Singapore's Accounting & Corporate Regulatory Authority to file its accounts was due to a restructure the company undertook during the year.
The restructure saw the formation of Tiger Aviation, which will act as the holding company for all Tiger's various operations in Singapore, Australia and its yet-to-be-launched Korean and Philippine franchises.
While the airline has been coy on stating whether it is actually making money, it has been more forthcoming with less sensitive information. Earlier this month, Tiger boasted how its Australian and Singaporean operations reported a 73.7 per cent lift in passenger growth and 58 per cent lift in revenue in the year to June 30.
There are suspicions Tiger is already coming under increased pressure from its shareholders to lift its performance. A long-serving Singaporean Airlines executive was recently appointed Tiger's chief financial officer, prompting talk its 49 per cent owner now wants to keep a more watchful eye on the running of the airline. There is also speculation as to whether Tiger's other key shareholders, the private equity firm Indigo Partners and Ireland's Ryan family, might be losing patience.
Virgin Blue and Qantas are due to report their full-year results this week which are expected to show a surge in fuel costs and a slowing in domestic demand.

[flyer_18-737]

SMH
Tiger Australia facing $23m loss | smh.com.au (http://business.smh.com.au/business/tiger-australia-facing-23m-loss-20080817-3x19.html)

[bogan mover]

Don't get your knickers in a knot just yet.

This article is pure speculation.

Of course they are in the red. Tiger Singapore were in the red for the first few years of ops until they recently posted a profit of s$38 mil.

You cant honestly expect a new operation like Tiger OZ to be in the black inside its' first or even second year of ops can you?

[Section28- BE]

Ex the Sydney Morning Herald today:

Tiger Australia facing $23m loss


Scott Rochfort
August 18, 2008TIGER AIRWAYS has continued to keep under wraps the financial performance of its Australian operations amid industry speculation the budget carrier has suffered losses in the tens of millions since it started domestic flights out of Melbourne last November.
Tiger's parent company sought a three-month extension to file its full-year financial accounts with Singaporean regulators last month, but financial information from the budget airline reveals its Australian arm lost about $S28 million ($23 million) in its first four months of operation.
If true, the losses counter the upbeat rhetoric of Tiger's chief executive, Tony Davis, on the inroads the carrier has made into Qantas-Jetstar and Virgin Blue's share of the domestic market.
The estimate has been arrived at by reconciling the $S37.8 million profit reported by Tiger's Singaporean operations two weeks ago and comments made by the chief executive of Tiger's main shareholder, Singapore Airlines. Chew Choon Seng told analysts at a profit briefing earlier this year he was not betraying any confidence in saying profit for the 2007-08 financial year came close to $S10 million. "They are ahead of business plans, he said.
If this is the case, Tiger Australia - which is Tiger's only operation outside Singapore - would have lost about $S28 million for the period.
There are suspicions Tiger Australia's losses for this financial year may have deepened, with oil prices surging as much as 43 per cent to a high of $US145 a barrel since the end of March from about $US101. Tiger has declined to comment on the estimates.
"We will be coming out with the consolidated Tiger Aviation accounts when they are ready," said a Tiger spokesman.
Mr Hobbs said the extension Tiger sought from Singapore's Accounting & Corporate Regulatory Authority to file its accounts was due to a restructure the company undertook during the year.
The restructure saw the formation of Tiger Aviation, which will act as the holding company for all Tiger's various operations in Singapore, Australia and its yet-to-be-launched Korean and Philippine franchises.
While the airline has been coy on stating whether it is actually making money, it has been more forthcoming with less sensitive information. Earlier this month, Tiger boasted how its Australian and Singaporean operations reported a 73.7 per cent lift in passenger growth and 58 per cent lift in revenue in the year to June 30.
There are suspicions Tiger is already coming under increased pressure from its shareholders to lift its performance. A long-serving Singaporean Airlines executive was recently appointed Tiger's chief financial officer, prompting talk its 49 per cent owner now wants to keep a more watchful eye on the running of the airline. There is also speculation as to whether Tiger's other key shareholders, the private equity firm Indigo Partners and Ireland's Ryan family, might be losing patience.
Virgin Blue and Qantas are due to report their full-year results this week which are expected to show a surge in fuel costs and a slowing in domestic demand.

[UNOME]

All new companies lose money for the first few years and this very little one has only been going in Oz for 10 months.

It does appear very strange that they would choose to recoup costs by attempting a dead-end limited market such as ADL, where everyone else has failed, most recently our cashed up baby Jetstar.

Mr Davis has said that SYD is off the radar but surely the "other" larger population= profit centre e.g BNE to ANYWHERE, is where the cost recovery begins? :confused:

Most commentators believe ADL the wrong move and will only cause Tiger's demise, which leaves it to just slink out of Oz with its striped tail between its legs and no food in its tummy. :zzz:

[windytown]

I can't help but ask if Tiger should look at the suitability of its product offering to the OZ market. While the Ultra low cost model may work for Ryanair (whose seat pitch is better than Tiger's) it did not work with Skybus in the US where Southwest, Jetblue etc had set a high benchmark. In addition Ryanair (and Easyjet)had a first mover advantage in Europe which Tiger definitely does not in OZ.
From what I can see Tiger has designed its product to be so low end, its seat pitch so tight, its checkin closeoff times less convenient to busy people, and its BYOB menu less appealing than DJ or Jetstar, it will find it very hard to ever get the sort of yields say Virgin or even Jetstar gets. Having yields that low can't be good long term.
Also I notice the A319s will often be deployed on routes which have had A320 flying, and in some cases are providing frequency and other reduced capacity. This semes different to opening up new routes to regional centres as their CEO had earlier claimed. I realise the three are not muutally exclusive, but all the same.

[flyer_18-737]

I noticed that services ex Melbourne base, from 1stFeb, like CBR, HBA, ROK.... are operated by A319

How is this possible, are they changing some A320 orders, or are we getting a huge influx of Skybus aircraft?

If not, TT should have cancelled some of those orders they have, and poach those Skybus's A319's, or the ones that are new.

I am quite worried for the future of this airline. If they came 4years ago, well then things might have been quite different. Still suprised why no airline in the world took the opportunity for the aussie market until Jetstar came into the situation and became one of the most profitable LCC's on this globe

[apacau]

Where do you see these MEL services operated by A319s? I put a couple of dummy bookings in for Feb MEL-CBR-MEL and the seat map was very definitely an A320.

My understanding is the MEL base will be exclusively A320 and ADL exclusively A319. The new A320 due late this year will be MEL based.

[flyer_18-737]

apacau, I was booked on an A319 service from MEL-OOL next Feb, and now its an A320, odd?. My seat selection is the same number at 15A, but now ahead of the wing...

Mabye the whole ADL hub was a last minute decision??

[Muff Hunter]

Looks like there will be a glut of 320 endo pilots looking for jobs in the near future....

So much for the pilot shortage....(i'll give em 6-12 months tops)

[Ralph the Bong]

UNOME, Very true. A serious domestic contender must have SYD/MEL/BNE as destinations or they might as well walk. Services to QLD are pointless without the inclusion of BNE and CS. :ugh:

[flyer_18-737]

If tiger operated a Brisbane service, they would offer like $69.95 fares prob...

And to Sydney, they could offer $59.95. They could do OK here, cause they are out of Tulla, not AVV and the cheapest ex MEL is about $115 from Virgin....

They could easily fill planes. What are they waiting for???

[apacau]

I expect they are waiting for terminal space in Sydney and a decent deal from SACL on landing fees...

[porch monkey]

Hope they aren't holding their breath.......

[flyer_18-737]

For a full 180seat A320, how mich would YSSY charge to land and everything else.

What would be the costs from touchdown to takeoff at Sydney, anyone have a rough idea???

[Section28- BE]

Ex the AirServices website:


Flight Costing Results

Date Thursday, 21 Aug 2008 Flight Type Arrival Aircraft Reg VH-VNB Flight Nbr
Training Circuits 0 PIAs 0 Full Stop Yes Flight Rules IFR Departure Airport YBBN Arrival Airport YSSY Arrival time(ETA) 0300 UTC or Local date and time UTC

Charges:

Terminal Nav $409.40
Rescue & Fire $133.04
En-route $230.43
Met Service $12.43
Noise levy $0.00
Total $785.30

Charges inc GST

GST: $37.22 $12.09 $20.95 $1.13 $0.00
Total: $71.39



Flight details: Aircraft Details ICAO type code MTOW Assessed Noise Level Charge type A320 73,500 kg 273.9 Jet Dates and Times UTC date UTC Time Local Date Local Time Thursday, 21 Aug 2008 0300 Thursday, 21 Aug 2008 1300 Airport Details
Departure Arrival Name BRISBANE SYDNEY Code YBBN YSSY Location 272303S 1530703E 335646S 1511038E Chargeable Distance 643 km (approximately 347 nm)
The cost of any flight calculated using this service is an approximation only. It may be different from the amount invoiced by Airservices Australia for that flight. The amount of any invoice for that flight is the amount payable to Airservices Australia.
The formatting hasn't come across- but there you go, now you have them at the gate- all you have to do is get this load off and the new load on through the terminal, etc, etc: hello Mr Mac Bank :E:E:E .

Rgds

[flyer_18-737]

????????????

[Section28- BE]

$785.30 Total inclusive of GST

The $71.39 is the GST component with the individual line items above- didn't massage the formatting on the GST bit.

[flyer_18-737]

so about $4 per seat.....not that much?

[Section28- BE]

flyer_18-737

So once the Feds have had a go at you to get there (probably with the assistance of their gun Air Traffic Controller- one Mr TIBA :cool::cool: - the Stig ex Top Gear of ATC)- the YSSY Airport Corp or Mr Mac Bank starts, here are two links to their starting bid ex the SACL Website:

Table of Charges All Airlines- 1July2008.pdf (application/pdf Object) (http://www.sydneyairport.com.au/NR/rdonlyres/F87F651A-0CA5-4936-B0AB-51C617ECA062/0/TableofChargesAllAirlines1July2008.pdf)

Notice re Aeronauticle Charges- 1Jul08.pdf (application/pdf Object) (http://www.sydneyairport.com.au/NR/rdonlyres/1E3C80A6-E020-46A2-993A-CD58F16DAD3B/0/NoticereCharges1Jul08.pdf)

This is of course their opening bid pending what and how much of it you are doing- you do see some Airline Operators sometimes having very public negotiations from time to time.

Rgds
Section28- BE

[flyer_18-737]

CBR and ASP first two destinations for ADL base... (from their website)

Then probaly:
-PER
-OOL
-MCY

and Bingo!:)

[Skystar320]

idiot, its not CBR-ASP its

ADL - CBR
ADL - ASP

[apacau]

I must be blind, but where is it on their website?

[flyer_18-737]

Very Interesting.

It was on the main banner, slide #2. But, now its gone!

It just said: "And the winners are, Canberra and Alice Springs" with a map of these destinations branching off the map...

Mabye someone's getting ahead of themselves???

[John Citizen]

I did not see any such idiot post ADL - CBR - ASP apart from you Skystar

[alangirvan]

One thing that Tiger has not started doing yet on Australian domestic services is Flight Combos. Maybe they will time flights through ADL to allow combos like Canberra to Perth. This would help them if they find that ADL-CBR traffic is not as strong as they hoped.

If Tiger allowed people to do Web check in and if they allowed people to have 10kg carry on bag limit so that there are not bags to re check Flight Combos would be easier to do on the Australian network than on Asian flights where people have to go through Immigration services.

[flyer_18-737]

VH-VNE is a new A320 coming in Mid-December, and Currently, only 1 sector is utilizing this New A320, which is a 4th Daily MEL-ADL sector..

Otherwise, this A320 has got plently of room left.

I suspect YSSY is coming.......

Using the new A320 they could do...
MEL-SYD 6.30 7.50
SYD-MEL 8.20 9.40
MEL-ADL 1010 1315(already announced)

and so on.... then some afternoon runs and nightly runs..

[Tester Call 121.5]

Will crewing be done out of Melb. for the Adelaide base 319s?

I ask because you can base aircraft anywhere but it's the people who really count to call it base.
J* have made some noise about 7 A320s in Darwin but all o/nights for the crews from what is being said.

[flyer_18-737]

No, A319's will be using ADL based crew....

Who the hell would work for JQ doing just overnighters, or the majority.?? Talk about Lifestyle....

[Lookleft]

So flyer- why are you on another forum telling everyone that you want to be an FO with Jetstar if you think the lifestyle is no good?

[flyer_18-737]

Darwin is not a city to have a lifestyle, Visited Friends once, and will never return to that place.....

I wouldn't ever want to be based out of Darwin...

[sthaussiepilot]

I agree with the first part of that post you put up flyer, regarding Darwin...

It is not a dream base at all.....

[Kev9]

Flyer 18-737
Stop posting rubbish.
Concentrate on getting your GFPT and getting a better job than AeroCare.
No need to Bump posts.

[flyer_18-737]

New routes ex ADL launched. No special launch fares though..

ADL-ASP (3w)
ADL-HBA (4w)
ADL-OOL (Daily)
ADL-PER (o/n Daily)

Combined with A319's operating 3 Daily ADL-MEL sectors and back..

From the Tiger Website, the A319's appear to begin service in early Feb..
Mabye more Destinations to come (Sydney!!)

[tasdevil.f27]

Be interesting to see how long the ADL - HBA lasts, been tried before & failed.

[Thylacine]

VB have managed to operate daily for quite some time and I don't suppose they would be keen to operate at a loss in current circumstances.

[apacau]

Have had a look at the schedules and there are still enough gaps for probably another 2 daily services somewhere in the afternoons. Canberra? Sunshine Coast?

[flyer_18-737]

Seems TT are marking their territory down in Tassie, with the new additions of a an extra 3daily services to HBA ex MEL and an extra service to LST ex Mel also...

[EXEK1996]

Unless thay start flying into BNE and SYD and therefore fly more of the trunk routes I wonder how they can survive?

[CasperA320]

The Tier model is to operate the southern part of Oz first.
They plan to expand into QLD next year,then the capital cities after that.
They are not rushing or is it crawlling before you walk.
Tiger is a very low cost,no huge costs, just look at the others-$50 mil just to overnight crew- yes you need alot of SYD/MEL to pay for that.
Tigers motto-The cheapest seats-The safest Airline-And the Happiest Staff
The new CEO FOR OZ is the greatest thing to happen to TIGER and SIA are very happy with the operation-- with 70 A320s on order- Just wait & watch !!

[43Inches]

Maybe Tiger is doing exactly that, crawl-walk-run, get a foothold on minor routes, work your stuff out, then enter the squable over mel-syd-bris well prepared and experienced in the local market.

[Muff Hunter]

if they keep losing a million per week they won't be around for very long..

[Skystar320]

Singapore with deep pockets and backed by the Ryan's? I think so.......

Just as Qantas with Jetstar Asia its Singapore's turn to go Tiger in Australia

[43Inches]

Didn't tiger make $30m profit last FY?

[porch monkey]

Tiger singapore did. Whole company. Tiger Oz made approx. 10 mil loss.

[Wine Glass]

Hi guys,

is there any concrete word on an ADL CC base? If so, does anyone have any info or timings of when the base will open?

Cheers,

WG

[Artificial Horizon]

Can anyone actually post here what the terms and conditions are at Tiger. They are advertising for pilots but I can't find any info about pay. And before anyone says to do a search, I have and have just found lots of posts about how bad it is to pay for training and having to hand write flight plans etc...... Any actual Tiger pilots out there that could PM me some terms and conditions would be appreciated.

Cheers

A.H.

[Sunstar320]

Hi guys,

is there any concrete word on an ADL CC base? If so, does anyone have any info or timings of when the base will open?

Cheers,

WG

ADL base opens with 1 A319 on the 12Feb and then the ADL base expands with the arrival of a 2nd A319, with operations to begin on 1st March

Between 12 Feb-1 March, the 1xA319 will be doing ADL-MEL sectors. Then the ADL-HBA,OOL,ASP,PER begins on 1st March 2009

[Wine Glass]

Sunstar,

outstanding! Thankyou very much for your quick reply. Fly safe!

[apacau]

I imagine further routes from Adelaide to be announced soon?

A little birdie also told me that due to maintenance scheduling, rather than having all A319s in ADL and A320s in MEL, the reality is that they are likely to be shared across both bases (though not yet confirmed). The extra flexibility does make sense to match capacity with demand as needed.

[sthaussiepilot]

I herd from certian adelaide people that Tiger have already began negotiating new routes, however are going to "wait and see" how the currently announced routes go first.....

Should be interesting...

[Sunstar320]

My Initial prediction for the Adelaide base is the scaling back to 3weekly of ADL-HBA. Just my thought, feel free to disagree...

No birdy told me this, but I have a feeling we will see Tiger enter the Cairns market very soon. Setting up a base there would also be good. Didn't Jetstar close down a base there? or was that someone else? Townsville also has good potential ex MEL, they would do well out of this

Sydney and Brisbane will come guys, might just be 10 years away, thats all:ok:

[sthaussiepilot]

you've pretty well hit the nail on the head with the Cairns base,

Apparantly the hope is to get a base open there, and they are looking into Adelaide-Cairns daily or every second day... but thats pure speculation, just rumors floating around....

[Sunstar320]

Jetstar seems to be doing excellent on MEL-CNS as well as Qantas. Tiger would do quite well out of Cairns as they are usually about 30/40% cheaper than there rivals. I would certainly use them for this service.

They seem keen on all this "overseas routing, using Australian Based Crew" idea though, which would suit Cairns, as well as Melbourne....

But, as Tiger are great at never letting details emerge, who knows when we will find out whats going on with this airline.......:suspect:

[Skystar320]

Ages ago, wasn't QF running 742's out of MEL & SYD to CNS>?

[bogan mover]

Let me just clarify a couple of things here.

Tiger doesn't need to open a base in CNS to operate there. However, I agree with Sunstar 320, CNS is probably on the radar for destinations in the very near future.

No one. Not even the managing director, knows where the next base will be. That won't be known until they've run all the numbers. And who knows when that'll be 'cause they are certainly in no hurry.

Based on the numbers, for all we know, base 3 could be Perth. They will go were the best deal is offered.

We can speculate all we like about this mob but there track record so far is to keep everyone guessing. And QANTAS and Virgin can't stand it. :*

[sthaussiepilot]

'bogan',

Although they dont have to open a base there, you have to admit, it has a great potential to become a fantastic operating base, aswell as perth...

Yes other places have potential but I strongly belive that CNS would be a prime location for them

[Hoofharted]

Me too. I've searched to no avail. If anyone has any factual information please post it up or PM me. Thanks

Don't hold you breath, the T&C's are so bloody appalling most are too ashamed to admit they fell for them. :mad:

[bogan mover]

Yep, CNS would be a logical base to open up. They could jump off there into the pacific and s/e asia for the international ops they aspire to.

I also believe that because the incheon start up has been delayed indefinately, 5 a/c need to be re assigned elsewhere. A 3rd base could be opened sooner than we think.

[Hoofharted]

Worse than Jetstar?

At least Jetstar give you a shirt and a pair of trousers. This mob is the worse paid in the country.

[Karunch]

Just dont stand too close to a heat source in the 'provided' uniform lest it become permanent. The cost of a uniform becomes almost academic after forking out 30+K for a type rating, $600 for Jepps etc as most have.

[George Bush]

Can anyone actually post here what the terms and conditions are at Tiger

If i recall correctly, Tiger F/Os are on $75,000 base + $32 per flying hour. Tiger pilots can do 1000 hrs per year. Thus max pay $107,000 for F/Os.

[sthaussiepilot]

'Bogan'

I herd something hovering around 3 weeks before offer of employment transfers to pilots, CC, etc

and actual date somewhere before December...

but pure speculation... have you herd anything along those lines?

[bogan mover]

STHAUSSIE,

Sorry, i really know nothing about what these guys are planning. Just guessing like everyone else.

There ad in last Fridays Australian was promising though.

[sthaussiepilot]

"Bogan"

Cheers, I'm very curious to see where they are going to tread next...:ok:

[Sunstar320]

The are not many Tiger pilots mabye, they onyl have 4 A320's.....

Mabye they are all just not members..

[Torque Motor Lockout]

If i recall correctly, Tiger F/Os are on $75,000 base + $32 per flying hour. Tiger pilots can do 1000 hrs per year. Thus max pay $107,000 for F/Os.

Very Close to the mark

[pigdriver]

What are the skippers actually on????? Whats the base salary, and what is/not included..( ie what are the things you have to pay for )carparking, jepss etc etc????

[hongkongfooey]

Pig, you pay for everything except the a/c leasing costs and the fuel.............I think :cool:

[EXEK1996]

Does anyone know if TT are as yet making money?

[Sunstar320]

I have heard recently, that no, not yet making money. But they are moving along better today than they were 6months ago. They might need some revenue boosters, ie Brisbane? Mabye Sydney? Cairns?

They need to get their brand out there.

[maryparlalis]

Has anyone been contacted by Tiger re interviews for their coming expansion?

Must be soon!!!!!:

[Sunstar320]

maryparlalis,
I found this thread which is actually discussing Tiger's expansion and Employment. This thread has many good details.

Worth a look:)

http://www.pprune.org/cabin-crew-wannabes/266846-tiger-airways-oz.html

[maryparlalis]

Thanks Sunstar320

But I was refering to Tech crew positions.

Are they accepting DEC?

[Sunstar320]

from the SMH

TIGER AIRWAYS has missed a second deadline to lodge its full-year accounts, fuelling speculation that the Singapore Airlines-backed budget airline has failed to reveal the extent of its financial woes.
The airline has declined to explain why its holding company, Tiger Aviation, has not lodged its accounts for the year to March 31, after already obtaining a three-month extension from Singapore's Accounting & Corporate Regulatory Authority in July.
The delay comes as the airline told the Herald it could postpone the delivery of a fifth Airbus A320 aircraft to Australia by two months.
Although it said last week that bookings remained strong, it declined to provide any indication of when it planned to lodge its accounts. A Tiger spokesman, Matt Hobbs, denied the airline was in trouble. "Tiger is very happy with how things are going, and we continue to fill planes in Australia and Asia," he said.
There are suspicions Tiger's 11-month foray in Australia is still losing it millions of dollars each month.
Since the Herald reported in August that its Australian operations could have lost $S28 million ($29 million) in the four months to March 31, the airline has still failed to confirm or deny the figures. The estimated loss was arrived at by reconciling the $S37.8 million profit reported by Tiger's Singaporean operations in the year to March 31 and comments made by the chief executive of Singapore Airlines, Chew Choon Seng. He told an analyst briefing earlier this year that Tiger Aviation's profit for the year was close to $S10 million.
If so, Tiger Australia - Tiger's only operation outside Singapore - would have lost about $S28 million for the period. But given the rise in fuel prices since March 31, economic slowdown in Australia and recession in Singapore, the losses could have worsened. Tiger did not say why the introduction of two Airbus A319s to its Australian fleet of four Airbus A320s had been pushed back to January.
In March the airline's chief executive, Tony Davis, said they would be delivered in November.
The airline also confirmed it could delay the delivery of an extra A320 to Australia next month to January, and would focus instead on developing new routes from Singapore into Malaysia.
Qantas's part-owned Jetstar Asia has also failed to lodge its accounts. It was given a three-month extension to lodge its full-year accounts by Singapore authorities on September 29.


Is it goodbye to Tiger Australia?? These losses are too high, I would say they just cant keep hoping they will lessen..

What on earth are they doing wrong?? Is it High Oil, Unstatainable Fares??

[A. Le Rhone]

Who said they are doing anything wrong? Read the last para of your post.

Qantas' Jetstar Asia ALSO failed to submit its accounts. Sounds more like a Singaporean accounting issue than a real issue. Tried to get a seat on Tiger in Oz lately. Loads seem very full.

[DrPepz]

Jetstar Asia's financial situation is not all that fantastic either.

Good news for TR is as the AUD plummets to parity/below parity with the Singapore Dollar, their losses in SGD terms will be about 30% less than what it would have been 6 months ago.

Bad news for Jetstar Asia is that their losses in AUD terms are now about 30% higher than they would have been 6 months ago.

[Route-me]

For operational reasons, some changes have been made to our flight schedules

You can blame lack of cabin crew for that :sad: but u get what u pay for

[apacau]

Press release on Friday saying ADL will get 2x A320s, not A319s. So are the A319s canned, going to MEL or SIN?

Also ADL-CBR flights announced from late March 4x weekly Mon/Wed/Fri/Sun afternoons

[porch monkey]

Of course, success isn't measured by whether you make money or not anymore, according to tiger........

[Sunstar320]

So are the A319s canned, going to MEL or SIN?
Peanuts.aero quotes
"The A320s replace previously announced A319s due to the response to the recently announced Tiger Airways routes from Adelaide to Perth, Gold Coast, Hobart, Melbourne and Alice Springs"

I presume these new A319's are not on the assembly line yet, hence the changeover? Mabye there are a few spare birds out there also? I do think that the Adelaide market would have been better suited to the A319 though...

[alangirvan]

Good luck to Tiger trying to sell ADL-CBR as a non peak time service. Surely thie idea of flights to Canberra is to fly people into Canberra for a meeting, and fly them home in the late afternoon. You can do that on Tiger MEL-CBR services, but anyone using the Tiger ADL-CBR service will have to stay the night, which loses the savings they made on the airfare. But if people from ADL will use the service to have a holiday in Canberra, this is great.

If Tiger does want to start operating Trans Tasman, as they have said they might, are all the planes fitted for EROPS as standard, or would they need to add a couple of planes for those services?

[Sunstar320]

from peanuts.aero
"Tiger Aviation, the company that operates Tiger Airways and Tiger Airways Australia, has reported (28-Nov-08) a full year group consolidated profit after tax of SGD9.9million for the financial year 2007/08 that ended on 31-Mar-08.

Key financial highlights for the FY 07/08 year included;

• Group consolidated profit improved by SGD24.7million from a loss of SGD14.8million to a profit of SGD9.9million.

• The total fuel spend for the year increased by 66% to SGD123m and the average price of jet fuel versus prior year increased by 17 % from USD80 to USD93 per barrel

• Earnings before interest, taxation, depreciation and aircraft rentals (EBITDAR) increased by 134 % from SGD26.7million to SGD62.6million.

• Year end cash balances increased by over 750 % from SGD3.9million to SGD33.4million

• No increase in shareholders’ investment which remains at SGD24.4million

• FY07/08 Net Profit for Tiger Airways Singapore of SGD37.8million

• Total pre-operating (start-up) costs for Tiger Airways Australia of AUD 7.9million have been fully expensed including set up of 12 airport operations across Australia

• Tiger Airways Australia operating loss of AUD12.2million for year ending 31-Mar-08, below initial forecast and all operations have been fully funded by positive cash-flow.

Tony Davis, Group CEO and President of Tiger Aviation said “We are delighted with the performance of both of our airlines during the last financial year. Despite difficult trading conditions, which saw our total fuel spend increase by 66%, we have created a solid
foundation for future regional growth by re-investing earnings in new opportunities, specifically the successful on-time, under budget launch of Tiger Airways Australia. Our employees in both Singapore and Australia have done a great job and we are confident
that our low fare model is the right product for our millions of customers across the Asia Pacific region”.
Davis continued “it is a testament to the strong business model developed by the Tiger Airways companies that even with the surge in oil prices and the additional complexities of operating two separate airlines, our company has declared a consolidated group profit after
only three years of operation and having fully expensed the start-up costs of our new airline in Australia – this is well ahead of the time taken by other leading global low fare airlines to reach profitability”.
The company’s airlines continue to generate strong cash-flows with cash balances increasing during the period from SGD3.9million to SGD33.4million. During the period the company secured deliveries for a further 50 Airbus A320 aircraft and 2 Airbus A319s bringing the total aircraft commitment to 72.
In addition to announcing the Tiger Aviation group profit of SGD9.9million for financial year 07/08, Tiger Aviation also gave an update on its operating performance for the Q2 of FY08/09. Compared to the year before the group achieved a solid performance in a challenging operating environment with :
- Passenger growth of 58.8%
- Capacity growth of 61.8%
- Gross revenue growth of 59.0%
Davis said “it is clear from these figures that Tiger Aviation is building a firm platform from which to develop our businesses across the entire Asia Pacific region and we look forward to continued strong passenger growth in the current financial year”."

[Tiger01]

Well done tiger ! :mad:

Get off the tarmac - we're going | News | Rockhampton Morning Bulletin (http://www.themorningbulletin.com.au/story/2008/11/28/get-off-the-tarmac-were-going/)

[Sunstar320]

What's on with the Oz Fleet these days?. Stands at 4 A320's , should be 5 though as of next week, but that was canned. Currently there is a new A320 at the Airbus Factory, due for Delivery at the end of this month to Tiger Aviation.

Rumour is also browsing that the 5th Plane to Australia is off to Singapore....TT Employees care to elaborate here? All those nice frequencies to HBA/LST/ADL/MCY starting next week have vanished...

Just what TT Managment trying to accomplish at the moment?

[Stationair8]

A little black duck told me that a number of new F/O's had declined the employment offer, due to some very nice clauses in the employment contract.

[Route-me]

A little black duck told me that a number of new F/O's had declined the employment offer, due to some very nice clauses in the employment contract.

thanks to those guys one of my mates scored the job. cheers bros...:D

gotta think real hard before u decline jet job worth 105-110K per year with relatively quick progression.

Anyone care to share what those nasty clauses were?

[SMOKENM]

:ok: Tiger will hold a conference on wednesday to let sydeny know they are coming......:{:sad: But are tiger really ready for this big move !

[lc_461]

Do you have a source for your information?

[Sunstar320]

You first post sound dodgy

[Cactus Jak]

Smart move if true. About bloody time. But are Sydney airport ready for them. I doubt it. Where would they park? What fee structure would be imposed on them? Tiger is very sensitive to over inflated fees. Look at the reasons they offered for pulling out of Darwin. $17/pax for security. Unsustainable according to TT management. It'll have to be a pretty sweet deal for Tiger to enter Sydney.

But when they do, it's gonna be a blood bath.:ok:

[max autobrakes]

For whom? Them???:bored:

[tasdevil.f27]

What will they use on these so called sydney services, more of these new aircraft that never arrive? And what has happened to all these extra flights they were going to start from this month? :hmm:

Is there room at SYD for them?

[Sunstar320]

And what has happened to all these extra flights they were going to start from this month
Well that aircraft is currently on final tests flights in Touluse, so I take its off to SIN for a few weeks before coming to Oz...
Is there room at SYD for them?
I always seem to see spare gates at T2, they only need one for 30mins. They use Aerocare, so I take it they will use the DJ side??

[porch monkey]

The "DJ Side"? What exactly are you smoking? Please tell us where the spare gates are there, we'd love to know as well......... Guess we'll get to see how good their OTP is now that they're operating into a "proper" airport:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[11percent]

so where did your mate get the job? Adelaide? which bases were the FO's turning jobs down for?

[KTM525]

Hope your mate read the "Singapore Basing" and "Unnotified Unpaid Leave Period" clauses!:ok:

[another superlame]

Desperate move for a desperate airline

[waren9]

Sounds like it was "your mate" that didnt think real hard before accepting...

Whilst I havent read the Tiger contract, for some guys to turn down a what is most likely their first jet gig speaks volumes to me about the offer.

Hope he likes the idea of getting shafted to Singers at a moments notice and then not being able buy a house and take advantage of low interest rates nowadays 'coz the bank doesnt like the "unnotified unpaid leave" clauses in his contract. Sounds like your mate got the jump on those other fellas alright!:ok:

[tasdevil.f27]

I always seem to see spare gates at T2, they only need one for 30mins. They use Aerocare, so I take it they will use the DJ side??


Tiger do nearly an 1hr turn around at LST most days, dont think that would work to well at SYD.:\

[fourgolds]

You Ozzies , always make Sydney out to be such a busy airport. even arrogantly thinking it comes close to Chicago or Heathrow.
PRM approaches , no place to park , bla bla

" Oh God forbid another A320 into Sydney , how will we cope.The infrastructure just cannot cope. Our controllers , ramp agents and fire services are just stretched to the max. Oh we better devise a new rule or procedure to accomodate it. I know dual independant PRM , slot controlled , PRNAV , Airbus only , CASA trained and ASA approved pilots only" ( thats just to start while we can think of some more rules and procedures)

Its a small town airport compared to the real world , get some perspective Australia . Embrace growth , encourage development and cut the beauracratic mediocrity.

Best said by a retiring UAL 744 Captain a few years ago , " Ah Sydney centre United --- , Its my last flight today and I just want to thank you for all the years of service throughout my career. You are definately the second best controllers in the world"

Sydney ATC, " Thanks Mate , just out of interest who,s the best ? "

UAL Captain , " everybody else"

NO offence to those that support the wallabies ( second best rugby team in the world)

[walaper]

fourgolds your points are valid however those that are responsible for the infrastructure are way behind and seem only interested in where they jam in another crispy cream, mc donalds etc.

[ANstar]

The "DJ Side"? What exactly are you smoking? Please tell us where the spare gates are there,


No room on the DJ side, in fact DJ seem to be using a gate on the Qantas side these days.

[Gordstar]

This is slightly left of field to the discussion, but how many pax who arrive and depart SYD, are tranisitting thru and if there was an option, would not have landed there at all?
I wonder if there really is a need for so many aircraft to go thru SYD?
I believe if TT do go in there, it will indeed be interesting.
I avoid the place as often as I can, thoughts anyone??

[wirgin blew]

No room on the DJ side, in fact DJ seem to be using a gate on the Qantas side these days.

DJ only has 6 gates the rest are "Common User Terminals". This means the last three have to be shared and the 3 on the Jetstar finger are also shared. BG should have bought the terminals when they were up for sale but didn't. It is another of his regrets I am lead to beleive..

[Chocks Away]

There's an old "Domestic Express Terminal" sitting waiting for such a go, where Rex are parking their uncrewed airframes.

[Stationair8]

Look mummy I got a job on the big Jet , but I will still have to keep the job at McDonalds and live at home!

Your mate must be the luckiest bloke in aviation to score a gig like that.

[nomorecatering]

The domestic express terminal is now DHL corporate offices, what a great idea there............................ The bayss are still there just the terminal cant be used.

[Sunstar320]

What about doing what AirAsia does at certain ports, in parking the A320 before the Aerobridge to aviod the costs of it, and ground crew dont need to then pushback aircraft.

Can this be done at any gates around YSSY though?? or just park on a Bay somewhere and get the pax walking!

[porch monkey]

Fourgolds, either you don't fly into SYD domestic, or you just missed the point. Nobody said the place was as busy an many international ports are. It is kept artificially busy through the limitations, greed, shortages and stupidity that is endemic to the place. Many of the captains I fly with have extensive international experience, and lambast the place because of how it is operated. The fitting in of another operator is wishful thinking at best. As I mentioned earlier, IF they decide to add SYD to their flights, then they aren't going to be an "On Time" operator for very long, and the rest of us will simply get worse. (If that is possible......)

[Chocks Away]

Ok, so DHL took over that bit too did they?
I just thought they had their offices for their "Asia/Pacific" shed held within and the Dom Express Terminal was a basic shell.
Wouldn't take much to get up and going again though I guess and you could park the SAAB's down next to the Fire Station on 16R, out of the way:}

[Route-me]

Waren9 - Whilst I havent read the Tiger contract

I have read the contract - the clause clearly states that the period of unpaid leave is "by mutual agreement", substantially different to your claim of 'unnotified unpaid leave'.

[waren9]

I was only opining on some very possible outcomes of what KTM525 had said.

That said, what credible employer offers work with unpaid leave clauses already in the contract? Either the work is steady and they need pilots or it isnt and they want employee flexibility for free.

Anyone in the game for long enough knows that "by mutual agreement" really means "We've got deeper pockets than you, so threaten us with the employment court if you want".

Good luck to your mate. Let us know how he gets on.

[Sunstar320]

nobody show up to this Sydney Conference did they now??

[wardog]

Everyone so bitter and twisted about the Tiger contract. It is simple if you don't like it don't accept, stay in GA building those usefull turbo prop or piston hours. The grass isn't always greener, the money isn't always better and no job in aviation has any real form of stability. Just look at the relatively unforeseen demise of Ansett.

Most of all don't comment with hearsay, especially on something you obviously know nothing or at least very little about. You simply make yourself sound like a pathetic GA pilot who most likely will never get the opportunity to fly a jet because you think you are that great your services are worth a premium. Good luck on that one Champ.

Just for your info, the tiger contract is similar to every other low cost carrier in the world, it is a company that provides the opportunity to get a step up into that first jet job. Not unlike Jetstar they offer a base salary and additional hourly flying pay, unlike jetstar there is no minimum before the hourly pay commences.

This contract is very similar to Jetstar in many ways, the only difference being that instead of laying pilots off if the OZ market dives, they offer the opportunity to transfer to Singapore so you at least have a job. If you don't like that option you stay in OZ and take the LWOP. Unlike Jetstar you don't get the oneworld staff travel, but hey I would rather have a jet job than wait for them to recruit again.

Like I said earlier, no one is forcing you or your mate to agree to the terms and accept the opportunity. At the very least you should have the courtesy to give everyone else the opportunity to make up their own minds.

Maybe you are jaded because you didn't get the call up, maybe you have a better paid job or already have a jet position somewhere else. Most likely you have no touch with reality and still think that every airline is desperately short of pilots.

For those that accepted congrats on your first jet job.

[fourgolds]

Bullseye Wardog. Finally someone who sees it the way it is.

[11percent]

wardog. Well done. About the best post I have ever read on pprune. You knockers out there should read this and have a long hard look in the mirror!

[rodney rude]

My concurrence - bloody well said Wardog. He speaks the realities. I a huge global downturn, just be very thankful for a job. As Wardog said, the TT contract at least does offer some alternatives to being laid off. It is just a company protecting itself in a very uncertain time whilst still finding its feet in Oz.

Take the job or don't take the job - the decision is your and yours alone. If you can't make that decision then you are lacking one of the key skills of piloting - decision making.

[UNOME]

I have spent sometime discussing terms and conditions over copious pints with some Tiger employees, and I have been left in no doubt that the contract at Tiger is not “similar” to Jetstar or Virgin.

For a start Tiger pilots are employed under a “bare bones” AWA (not sure what happens when the AWAs are abolished??) and Jetstar/ Virgin under EBAs, which results in big differences in many ways.

Another fact is that since Tiger commenced operations 5 years ago, the pilots have not had a pay rise, and the AWAs/ Singapore contracts do not allow for CPI increase or any other cost increases. According to their CEO, a pay increase is not on the agenda for the next 5 year period.

This has resulted in Tiger pilots being paid considerably less than other comparable carriers, while receiving almost none of the usual benefits.

While it is normal for LCCs to have high staff turnover rates, it appears that Tiger has hit the alarm bell recently. While employment remained steady over the past 12 months, it is in reality just replacement, given that Tiger still only has 4 aircraft.

I would suggest that if you miss out on all other carriers in Australia, then Tiger is a “bare bones” short term option… oh and don’t bitch about it. :}

[wardog]

UNOME and AAF,

I don't disagree with you, in fact you both have very valid points, in particular UNOME. I do however feel that I may have poorly explained my position.

I by no means believe that the TT contract is comparable in terms of benefits or returns when compared to the other carriers out there, and certainly not Virgin. By similar I was refering to the bottom line wage setup, I do acknowledge that Jetstar offers substancial benefits over Tiger. I was more so simply paying tribute to the fact that there isn't a lot of work out there, the pay is generally a very poor return for the investment laid out and TT is offering a step up for some people.

Those people who make the choice to either accept or refuse the contract are making just that, their own choice. Others shouldn't take the high ground and judge because each person has their own reason for accepting such conditions.

TT does not hide the fact that they are a LCC, infact they brag about the fact that they are one of, if not the cheapest in terms of overheads of all the LCCs. We all know LCC equals tight bottom line, this is reflected in everything including pilots pay and conditions.

At the end of the day to believe they offer a fruitfull career is very narrow minded. To use them as a step in building quick hours and a rapid command more realistic. When the Middle East market is still growing, is the only place that still offers the benefits we all want, and asks for around 2000 Jet, TT is one of the best options out there right now.

As for the turnover at TT, I agree, it is very high, and for those starting, it must be promising if you want a fast command. But like the man said, don't come bitching, your decision, your problem.

[UNOME]

Wardog

I believe that is a much more realistic view.

Christmas drinks with some of the older Tiger blokes recently resulted in their head in hand, and not because of the hangover. While they remain very loyal to Tiger and believe in the potential it has, I note their deep frustration and concern with the direction of the company.

It is no secret that selecting Adelaide as a base is considered by all in the industry (and the business sector) as a major mistake, especially for a LCC looking to tap into increasing traffic growth (ADL has the lowest of the top six), not business travel. That raises the issue of customer loyalty and return business however, Tiger does not have a loyalty reward system in place anyway.

Tiger has already abandoned DRW and NTL therefore, if ADL doesn’t work it follows that it will also be abandoned.

Apparently the next step after ADL is, well nothing.

Australians are rather gun-shy of Airlines that look shakey…

[Sunstar320]

It is no secret that selecting Adelaide as a base is considered by all in the industry (and the business sector) as a major mistake, especially for a LCC looking to tap into increasing traffic growth (ADL has the lowest of the top six), not business travel. That raises the issue of customer loyalty and return business however, Tiger does not have a loyalty reward system in place anyway.

Tiger has already abandoned DRW and NTL therefore, if ADL doesn’t work it follows that it will also be abandoned.


Not to mention the huge costs of setting up these "hubs" every few years, how on earth can they escape the red? Establishing a solid base in Melbourne for the first few years would seem more ideal, like what they have done in Singapore. Instead they are running around the country, looking for dumped capacity etc..Routes like Adelaide-Hobart struggle according to Godfrey on a E170 and are not money makers, now how the heck are TT going to fair on 180seat bus? The same for Canberra.....:oh:

Brisbane Tiger, Brisbane.

[Metro man]

Not to mention the huge costs of setting up these "hubs" every few years

Rent the cheapest office space you can find, contract out everything you can to the lowest bidder. Take advantage of any set up grants from the airport/government. Play one airport off against another to get the best deal. Not the huge costs involved that QF would have in a new base.;)

[rodney rude]

Lots of talk of high turnover at TT. Cabin crew -YES. Pilots - 6 in 13 months, you be the judge of whether that is high. I don'e see huge alarm bells there.

[Charliethewonderdog]

So it's ok to go around Excepting a job with low pay and conditions just to get your first job, first twin job, first turbo prop, first two crew job and now first Jet job and Airline job.......

You can use the excuse of building hours as much as you like but it's the the above atitiude that has lead to the poor pay and conditions that Tiger has now got. When will it end???
The day when there is nothing at the top is coming soon.... but I suppose you will still be flying that shiny jet and still hoping things will get better....

Time to draw a line in the sand and demand better conditions.... especially now there is a pilot shortage...* what??? the pilot shortage is over????* hmmmm lucky our industry cashed in on this shortage whilst it lasted and secured better T's and C's before a downward economic cycle turned up.... woops.
At least these glorified bus drivers did.... NSW bus drivers accept 8pc pay rise - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/30/2075303.htm)

[THRidle]

Rodney, If you have four or five hundred pilots, six is peanuts. You have fourty or fifty drivers and you have a problem

[UNOME]

Actually I was relating to what I was told regarding management departures, although I believe there has been high number of Check and training guys move on also.

I understand that during the past 10 months only the following have left:

Check and training manager (and his replacement has one foot out the door)
The flight attendant manager (two in fact)
Assistant FA manager
The engineering manager (two also)
The HR manager
The Finance manager
The Managing Director
PA to the MD
The Crewing manager
All of the duty operations guys
This is a very lean outfit with less than 150 total employees, so yep, I would say the alarm bell is ringing rather loud, and maybe the last one to leave would be kind enough to turn out the lights.

After all it is low cost and you don’t want to waste money! :confused:

[Sunstar320]

The Managing Director
Fired wasn't he? or "Moved onto the Korea base" which is going nowhere...

[UNOME]

Sunstar 320

(I had given up on Prrune but my new Global Blackberry makes prruning a breeze…) :ok:

Not sure what happened to the MD, but I believe he was responsible for the ADL decision and didn’t top the popularity list.

Rodney Rude seems very passionate about Tiger, maybe he/ she can confirm the factuality of the departures and give us an idea about the real game plan?

I don’t think there is any bitterness as raised by Wardog, in fact I have to be honest, I have good mates in Tiger and would prefer to see it grow however, one can’t go trudging through the unprofitable, muddy goat tracks left by previous failed operators and hope to succeed. The established and very profitable paved roads have plenty of room left, you just need some more aircraft, in fact lot’s more, in order to have a go.

As Sunstar said what about MEL- BNE, and then BNE-CNS, TSV, DRW, PER, BROOME, ASP, ADL, etc… Is it lack of terminal space that closed this obvious option? What is the deal with SYD? Maybe the obvious thing lost on Tiger management is the requirement for the "early flight out and late flight return" to/ from the big cities. Two earlies (6am/ 7am) and two lates are all you need to start the ball rolling.

I remember the CEO crowing about not doing the "BNE-SYD-MEL golden triangle" and going where no man has gone before...but surely 180 seat A320s need both a large population and increasing traffic growth in order to make money?

Is ADL-HBA-MEL really the new "golden triangle"or just a map of Tassie?? :bored:

[tourismman]

UNOME Hi

In relation to Brisbane i have asked this question many a time.When Tiger was in the planning stages they had a public vote for where pax wish to go and BNE won this yet the base went to MEL and no flights went to BNE.

I believe the lack of Tiger having their own terminal is why BNE do not have any flights, however i do notice that the common user terminal will be extended into a full circle with work starting within next 2 monthes and this will give 7 gates at the satellite and 2 at the main terminal which will allow 9 aircraft to be parked.Mayby this will be enough to entice them.

Let's hope Tiger can fly to Brisbane soon.

Cheers

[Sunstar320]

Tiger Korea is officially not going ahead
Tiger shelves joint-venture (http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_320017.html)

[rick3009]

Just saw a pic of Tigers A319 on Airliners.net, does anyone know the delivery date of this aircraft and where it will be based?

[Going Boeing]

Tiger Airways' brand new A319 arrived in Singapore last night at 2030.
144 seat Airbus A319 aircraft provide Tiger Airways the flexibility to take advantage of opportunities created from ASEAN liberalisation
The A319's lower cost will allow the airline to develop new routes without the need to fill larger aircraft.

(Singapore, January 19, 2009) -- Tiger Airways' first A 319 aircraft has arrived at its Singapore base last night straight from the Hamburg factory.

Rosalynn Tay, managing director of Tiger Airways Singapore said "I am so excited about growing our fleet. With more planes we are able to have even more low low fares for travellers. The best thing about this plane is that it is 98% the same as our A320s but with less seats and a lower operating cost. This is the perfect aircraft for route development and ensures that the airline is in the right position to exploit new opportunities as they are presented."

The A319 has been successfully operated with low fare airlines across the world with significant fleets in service with airlines such as Easyjet and Spirit in the US.

Rosalynn Tay said "the A319 is a proven low fare aircraft type. With these additional aircraft we have the opportunity to aggressively expand our paw print to more destinations with our famous low low fares."

Source : Tiger Airways

[mostlytossas]

They were going to base a couple of them in Adelaide as from the 1st March to service the new routes to Alice Springs and Hobart. Anyone know if this is still the case?

[ebt]

I can't recall where I saw it but I believe that ADL is getting two A320s from Singapore instead of the A319s, which will be used in Asia.

[Sunstar320]

MORE than 30 additional jobs will be created as Tiger Airways' new Airbus A320 kicks off its Adelaide operations from March 1. The low-cost airline's two Airbus A320 aircrafts, which will be based in Adelaide, will fly to six destinations - Canberra, Hobart, Gold Coast, Alice Springs, Perth and Melbourne.
Besides the airline's recruitment of 40 cabin crew and 12 pilots, additional jobs are being created in the ground handling and overnight maintenance services area.
Ground-handling services provider Aero-Care Pty Ltd is hiring 30 more staff while overnight maintenance services company John Holland Aviation Services will create up to five new jobs, Tiger Airways said.
A John Holland spokesperson said the company will look to expand this team alongside the expansion of Tiger Airways' services and other business opportunities within the South Australian market.

South Australia is going to benefit from the price revolution, which has already saved $60 million for customers since Tiger was launched in 2007, Tiger Airways managing director Shelley Roberts said.
"Australia has never seen the fares we are talking about,'' Ms Roberts said.
Tiger's entry will ease the pain of rival Jetstar closing its base here last year, especially with more aircraft likely to be added in Adelaide over the coming years based on demand.
It is widely believed the choice of Adelaide as a second base was partly due to a deal struck with Adelaide Airport Ltd and a $2 million carrot from the State Government, but Ms Roberts said customer support and demand were the main attractions to setting up a base here.
"The decision was based on the market for our services,'' she added.
In fact, a decision to upgrade from a 144-seat Airbus A319 to new 177-seat Airbus A320s was prompted by the perceived demand for low-cost services in Adelaide:rolleyes:.
Tiger's plans come as rival budget carrier Virgin Blue's announced up to 400 job cuts from its Australian workforce and ground five aircraft due to declining demand.
Qantas also said it was scaling back operations and cancelling some international flight routes.
However Ms Roberts - who will address the Deloitte Women of Influence luncheon organised by the American Chamber of Commerce SA at the Hyatt Regency on Friday - said the airline was actively exploring a number of opportunities to bring in more point-to-point services.
Link to news.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25072609-5003680,00.html)

............

[xrisi]

Bring on the recovery...

Tiger increases domestic routes with new hub (http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/tiger-increases-domestic-routes-with-new-hub-20090302-8lt2.html)

[UNOME]

You appear exiguous Ms (first post) xrisi.

The ten year aviation cycle and the worldwide crisis is not a bloody myth. :bored:

[flyforfun]

Not all beer and skittles for the last 4 Tiger recruits I hear.
After paying the 30 odd k for their endo, and being told Adelaide base was theirs, 3 days before endo completion they are called in an told "sorry due to economic downturn, no position available in Aus for you."
"Its Singapore or nothing chaps", is what I am led to believe they were told.

Yes, at least they have a job, but would be hard if any of them had a family and were only given 3 days notice of such a big move.

Aviation can be a s..t of an industry sometimes, and I think the early years of relocations, humble (to understate it a lot I know) wages and conditions, in a way help sort out the people who really want it, from those who read of the "life style" of airline pilots, and think they want it.

That being said, I think by the time you have made it to acceptance into a wide-body job the big surprises should be over.

I know some will say "at least they have a job" etc. and yes thats true, but I can't think of too many proffesional industries where once you have done your "apprenticeship", you can still be treated like this.

[Outtahere]

Fly for fun- semantics perhaps but Tiger is not a widebody job. The Jet*/ Dj/ Tiger job is really just the equivalant of a regional airline job 10 years ago & to think that one has made it to the big league because their license has A320 stamped in it is nieve to say the least.

The very fact that people have paid for an endorsement probably opens them up to this sort of treatment. An employer who invests in training is far less likely to treat their employees this poorly.

[Whiskery]

This (http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/tiger-increases-domestic-routes-with-new-hub-20090302-8lt2.html) article states Tiger Airways says it has already hired 60 SA-based pilots and cabin crew to ensure a quick start to the new operations.

so the pilots are already in Adelaide.

You have a job and the opportunity to gain some international flying experience. Singapore is a great place to live and a safe place to raise children.

If you can afford an A320 rating, I'm sure you'll have enough to relocate to Singapore for a couple of years.:E

[Sue Ridgepipe]

If you can afford an A320 rating, I'm sure you'll have enough to relocate to Singapore for a couple of years
Jeez mate are you for real?
Most pilots I know, if they'd just shelled out 30k for an endorsement probably needed to mortgage the house (maybe a second or third one) and will be paying it off for a few years to come yet.

[Sunstar320]

Tiger want another 24 aircraft based here by 2014.

Tiger Airways MD roars with confidence (http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-business/tiger-airways-md-roars-with-confidence-20090303-8n9r.html)

[xrisi]

:(:(:(:( UNOME' :(:(:(:(:(myth
neither is your depression, keep taking those happy pills every day.
you arrogant tosser.

[apacau]

Anyone know or claim to have an idea of what the loads are like for the early days of the ADL hub operation?

[Skybus_319]

Anyone know or claim to have an idea of what the loads are like for the early days of the ADL hub operation?
Hobart on Sunday went out with about 75%, bit less on the return.

[EXEK1996]

Problem is they are losing money even with that load. Probably nearly every time they fly out of ADL they will lose money.

I am sure there is a limit to how much SIA etc will sustain the loses.

On the otherhand is this a technique to hurt VB and hence secure VB at a very low price for the Singaporeans? I see on another thread that the Singaporean owners of REX have been investing in VB.

Any other thoughts or conspiracies?

[B772]

EXEK1996. Yes, a reverse takeover of DJ by Tiger and their allies when the time is opportune; possibly in 2011.

[UNOME]

xrisi

Bit touchy for your second post! :ouch:

[EXEK1996]

Hey B772 are you sure it wont be 2009.....

VB at 18cents the Singaporeans may sense value....

[mostlytossas]

My son is flying down on Tiger from Alice next Saturday. He reckons according to their web site you cannot buy a drink or snack onboard any of their aircraft except Singapore based ones.(I checked and this is what it says) Anyone know if this is true?
Because if it is this gives a new meaning to LCC and what exactly do the cabin crew do for 2 hours? I would hate to go from Melb to Perth.

[Skybus_319]

My son is flying down on Tiger from Alice next Saturday. He reckons according to their web site you cannot buy a drink or snack onboard any of their aircraft except Singapore based ones.(I checked and this is what it says) Anyone know if this is true?
Because if it is this gives a new meaning to LCC and what exactly do the cabin crew do for 2 hours? I would hate to go from Melb to Perth.
No:rolleyes:

[mostlytossas]

Well Tiger need get their act together if they want to be taken seriously and attract passengers. Following the link to "in flight services" on the booking confirmation email you are directed to "Tiger Bites" all in singapore dollars and states only available on singapore based aircraft. Further on it states passengers are not to take onboard their own refreshments. So what are the punters to believe? It is a flying Greyhound Bus?
I mean it doesn't matter much for a 1hr flight but for the longer routes it must deter passengers from booking with them.

[Skybus_319]

Anyone know or heard if TT have controlled their losses as of late?

[Checkerboard]

Tiger lost my business the other day. Got right thru to the end of a internet booking and it would hang on the payment page. Tried several times to no avail, so I called their customer service number which is not a local call and after selecting an option nothing happened! Tried this number 6 times at considerable STD call cost and the same thing happened over and over.

So I gave up and took my business elsewhere. Pretty poor form if you cant even book a flight no matter how hard you try!:ugh:

[fritzandsauce]

MEL-SYD flights start 3rd July ... 3 - 4 times daily

Also tonight ... Today Tonight or ACA ran a report on Tiger ... Missed it though

[Skybus_319]

and parking where? Virgin or JQ side?

[air doris]

When I have been in ADL recently they have been parking QF side, about gate 23. A few months earlier they were the DJ side. Several times last month I (QF) have been at the very last one (25 or 26 cant remember which is the last one but JQ used to occupy it). This may have to do with the dual occupancy of International/Domestic as when there is SQ, MH and NZ there at the same time it closes off quite a few of the most convenient gates 18-22. I have departed from the very furthest DJ gate and boy thats a hell of a hike.
Just FYI was told by ground staff that Adelaide Airport terminal has the same ground area size as Sydney. I thought I was walking a lot there.

[apacau]

Tiger will operate from T2 in Sydney, according to their website

[Skystar320]

As of Last Sunday, I flew PER - ADL and we docked on virgin side' coming back it was gate 23

[boocs]

I thought the news on Tiger flying to Syd would have more comments. I find this major news personally. It has always been asked "when are they flying to Syd" and now they have announced it. Whilst having no personal alliances with any carrier in Oz, I would imagine this will only dent (even if minor) market share from the other established carriers. Is there any limit on the number of slots they can have?
b.

[tourismman]

Well there goes the argument ,where they want their own terminal(shed), and flying into the dearest airport as well.

What has BNE done not to deserve them.:(

[waren9]

Given the serve Tiger just got on "Today Tonight" this evening, you could argue that not having stranded passengers in the BNE terminal with another Tiger PR disaster might be a small blessing?

As has been mentioned on another thread recently, isnt an RPT operator obligated to run the schedule they promise? "Operational Requirements" is a rather tired old excuse used for anything nowadays.

[Skybus_319]

Given the serve Tiger just got on "Today Tonight" this evening, you could argue that not having stranded passengers in the BNE terminal with another Tiger PR disaster might be a small blessing?

I thought of it as just more Today Tonight Bull**** actually. Half of it was some woman complaining about a cancellation in Tiger Singapore, Yet they worded it as if it was the Australian Operation. Whole different kettle of fish over there..and The rest was some old bastard having a whinge cause TT changed the flight and he would missed his connecting sector....:ugh:...TIGER NO NOT OFFER CONNECTIONS AND DO NOT ADVISE IT!!!

Yay for YSSY though..

[fritzandsauce]

The video Today Tonight used is a video that was added on to youtube on the 12 December 2007 type "Tiger Airways Mistreats Passengers" in to youtube and you will see it

Just rip any old video off of youtube ... Journalism

[aviator's_anonymous]

When I have been in ADL recently they have been parking QF side, about gate 23. A few months earlier they were the DJ side.

Adelaide airport is a Common User Terminal. There isn't technically a "QF" or "DJ" side as such.. AAL operate and run the terminal and allocate the bay allocations to aircraft. For operational convenience, the airport will try to keep the airlines in the same areas...however, as QF/DJ don't operate or assign their own bays - sometimes you will get QF parked down on the DJ end, and DJ aircraft parked on QF side. I do believe QF and DJ have an agreement with the airport to have a certain amount of bays allocations, however, it doesn't state on which bays. So airlines such as Tiger and others will get moved around to whichever bays are available at the time.

[Sunstar320]

After reading this article, that does go a little too far towards the end , it really does frustrate me that Tiger Managment are basically stealing money, and offering this sub-zero service. It would be millions that they owe to pax. We are all sick of the bull**** that they keep quoting.."that costs money" kind of attitude..etc..They operate that small foregin call centre with staff numbers so low and they barely understand out language. Why are they doing nothing and floundering in Oz. They have made today tonight, Nightly news, newspapers about the low service, but what changes? They extend the call centre by a few hours:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

While Tiger is the LCC and "you get what you pay for", profit might be along way off it this crap keep going, no matter how many free seats or stupid promo's they have..They can do better, obviously Mr Davis has no decent way of turning this around...
Tiger Airways Resorts to Online Forums to Post False Praise
Mathaba.Net - Entities in the pay of the much maligned rogue low-cost carrier airline (http://mathaba.net/news/?x=619888#) Tiger Airways to counter its terrible image on the Internet due to its zero-level customer service and theft of money from travelers, have been caught posting false praise to counter news articles that have exposed the renegade airline and called for its banning from Australian airspace.

Using Melbourne as a base to post fake articles praising the airline and defending it, using free online forums that don't cost a penny, the poster has been traced using technology (http://mathaba.net/news/?x=619888#) available to this news agency, and has used multiple fake identities, including "My Aussiebum".

The posts, which have been censured due to violation of Mathaba posting Terms of Service, included phrases such as "Tiger Airways is very different than the other airlines. While many airlines are getting rid of staff, airplanes and reducing capacity Tiger Airways is growing" and defending the lack of customer service along the lines of "what do you expect at a low price".

The airline has been caught by our investigators cheating advertisers as well as double booking seats and leaving passengers stranded without refund nor compensation, among several other illegal practices including the misuse of ANZAC day to further its nefarious objectives.

The airline makes much money by preventing people from being able to contact it in the event of problems nor to cancel or postpone tickets, as well as failing to notify travelers when canceling their bookings without cause.

Those who manage to travel (http://mathaba.net/news/?x=619888#) at low cost on Tiger Airways are subsidized by the many who are cheated of their money and have their tickets canceled without recourse nor notification, with Tiger Airways happily retaining these ill-gotten funds.

Singapore has failed to launch any inquiry into their airline which is a low cost subsidiary of Singapore Airlines and Europe's worst-rated low-cost airline Ryan Air, and the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) and other Australian authorities including the government have attracted much criticism for their silence on the matter.

See related items below for other recent articles on Tiger Airways.

Advertisements exposing Tiger Airways and calling for its banning from Australia can be sponsored via the link below - sponsors names and emails are not published, the donations are used to fund advertising placed by Mathaba News and matched dollar for dollar by the news network (http://mathaba.net/news/?x=619888#).

[EXEK1996]

I hear that they are now breaking even in OZ and that the load factor is pretty good?

[Skybus_319]

^^That article is quite sad, no excuse for the sub-zero contact levels..:uhoh:

I hear that they are now breaking even in OZ and that the load factor is pretty good?
Unless you are Tony Davis, the Oz MD, or on the Tiger Board, you dont know nothing!. Load factor for Melbourne base is quite good here and there, Tues/Wed can be a but gloomy, and CBR/LST are also abit low at times. Adelaide base rarely sees a full flight, but hangs around the 70% mark often. Sydney bookings are apparently absolutely beyond all expectations plus Tiger also sold more than 70,000 seats of those taxes only fares over the 4 day sale.

I doubt they have breakeven yet, considering the jump in fuel would have sent tiger into the red a fair bit, but the bumper summer season that Tiger got in MEL/low fuel prices will hopefully not makes things look as bad.

[aviator's_anonymous]

weren't they just giving away 30,000 seats the other day ? - Just pay taxes?
That could explain why the loads seem a bit higher?

[No Idea Either]

70,000 or 30,000, whatever, at tax only seats. Seems like a short term capital raising venture to me. Every one of those seats was paid for by credit card on the spot. But, maybe an exposure exercise hoping to lure return custom down the track. Who knows!!!!!!!!

[tasdevil.f27]

The boss of Tiger AUSTRALIA was just saying they are the quickest or biggest expanding airline in Australia. Have I missed something??? Handful of aircraft and seemingly low pax numbers (well on the routes I have seen anyway)

She was still sprouting that they are bringing 30 aircraft here.

[Skybus_319]

^^
SHE IS ALL TALK! and has no idea. Thats it:ouch:

She was still sprouting that they are bringing 30 aircraft here. Well, that depends on numerous things like Fuel Prices, Demand here etc..but that is over the next 6/7 years.

[tasdevil.f27]

like Fuel Prices, Demand here etc..but that is over the next 6/7 years.

Tell em there dreaming :}

I have nothing against Tiger and hope they stick around, but that's one thing I have noticed is that there GM's love to talk the talk, but haven't really delivered on all there promises. I just laughed at some of her statements on radio today. The average punter would have thought they were the No1 airline is aus.

[mostlytossas]

I have no axe to grind with any airline but post this as a purely personal observation. My son lives in Alice Springs and I in Adelaide. Since Tiger started Adelaide- Alice services he has travelled with them 3 times and I once return on that route. I can honestly say I can't fault them at least on the flights we all were on. They left on time and arrived on time each time.In fact 10minutes early mostly as they had boarded already.
In flight service is no different to Virgin or Jet *,and not far behind Qantas only because you pay for anything extra.(you do at Qantas too but it's in the ticket price). The aircraft were clean.The fares are very competative. To give you an idea on the way up I was seated next to a fellow who decided only a day or so before to book and he was quite pleased with the fact he got a ticket for $300 approx return. Qantas was over $1000.
I didn't want to tell him my ticket was half that,but I did book weeks earlier. Leg room is standard to all economy airline seats.Bearable for short flights cramped after that. Loads were good on all flights, my guess 80%.
I would not hesitate to use them again and in fact will if they stay competative.
My only gripe and it is minor and not Tigers fault anyway is that at Adelaide at least they seem to be put at the ends of the terminal so you need to be happy to walk a long way to your aircraft.

[Gordstar]

Nice to read your comments, I am closely linked to the Adelaide end of the operation.
As for the bays we use at Adelaide airport, the airport operator allocates bay numbers according to airline schedules etc, so we get what we are given, theoretically we could leave from different bays each time you fly, nice to have the aerobridge! Cheers :)

[apacau]

I'll second Mostlytossa... I live in CBR and my family in ADL. If anyone knows CBR, getting a reasonably priced ticket for a weekend away (ie: leave Friday night back Sunday night) used to be impossible, even if booked months in advance (ie: the lowest priced fare buckets were never even released on these services).

Cue Tiger - great timings for Friday evening/Sunday evening trip from Canberra to Adelaide and back with prices to match - can regularly get $48 fares. Maybe I've been lucky, but I've flown TT 15 times now on a variety of routes (but mostly CBR-ADL-CBR) and never had more than a half hour delay - though most are on time or early.

The other benefit of course is that, as if by magic, Qantas and Virgin suddenly have cheaper fares on CBR-ADL-CBR on peak days too! The joys of competition. But Tiger is still cheaper and I'll usually take them - use it or lose it as they say!

And finally a tip - most people don't bother paying extra for a seat, let alone $15 for an exit row. I always ask at check-in and in all but one occasion, I have gotten an exit row seat. And you don't necessarily have to check in early. I have been on some very full flights with an exit row seat or two still unoccupied. The trick is to ask.

[Chadzat]

Flew Tiger on the Queens Birthday long weekend and cant fault the crew or aircraft at all.

But for my 6'2" frame, it was a very uncomfortable 55mins from MML to PAD . The seat back pitch was amazingly upright. My back started hurting after only 10minutes at the gate!! And before you say "Well why didn't you just recline the seat back" - well with the tiny seat pitch, even reclining 10degrees back would have put me almost on the guys lap behind me.

If you are a midget then I see nothing wrong with the service....

[boocs]

When does MEL-SYD start (or has it already??)
b.

[Dunnza]

I have a 6ft 5in frame.... Tiger was excellent

[captwawa]

I heard that Tiger was going to recruit Capt and F/O's for a July start. Maybe for ML or SY basing??

Has anyone been called or have they heard of guys/girls being called for a sort of immediate start?

It's hard to tell in this climate what the hell can and will happen...

[Pedota]

I posted the following in another thread (“Jet* Does it Again) the other day (see below) . . . and correctly I got slammed by Mstr Caution and Green Globlin on my comments about ‘airmanship’.

I did try to defend myself on those grounds, but I was still wrong.

But perhaps the general point is relevant to this thread?

Cheers

Pedota

My wife and I are long term and frequent QF customers. My FF number is so low that QF staff still comment about it and my wife retains her ‘gold’ status.

Last week we needed to go to Perth and we chose Tiger based entirely on price - less than $400 total (not each). It even wasn’t worth using points at that price.

A sample of one does not make a case about anything, but I think the industry’s business model is in the process of changing forever.

And I can report that the whole Tiger customer ‘experience’ was fine . . . easy to use internet ticket purchase; capable and helpful check in staff; brand new A320; hard working and competent cabin crew; great flying and airmanship; and quick baggage retrieval.

There was a minor delay on one sector but the staff provided accurate and timely information – we were all kept in the picture and they worked double speed to turn the aircraft around in minimal time.

We took our own food . . . but frankly airline food is rarely worth eating at any time. And of course our Qantas Club cards were left unused.

We have used airlines like Ryan Air and EasyJet in the UK and Europe and have been very pleased. Sure, you get the occasional delay – but you also get those on High Cost Carriers.

I will select the lowest fare that fits my schedule . . . pretty much like anything else that I buy . . . as there seems little point in paying more for essentially the same thing.

Cheers

Pedota

[porch monkey]

There is of course one essential difference between Tiger and the rest here, and that has mainly to do with their ability to "repair" schedules. It means nothing most the time, however, if QF, VB etc have to cancel a flight, you will still usually get to your destination, usually the same day. Because of limited routes, frequency, aircraft and structure, Tiger generally can't, and won't. That's one of the intangibles you pay for with the other airlines.

[mostlytossas]

You are partly right porch but your post should read Qantas and the rest. Because only Qantas have the amount of flights/capacity to get you to your destination in time for most appointments.
I got caught out a year or so ago with VB going to Syd from ADL to join a cruise leaving at 5pm. My flight left at( or supposed to) about 9.30am but due to technical difficulties (no cabin crew) it didn't. The next flight was about 12.30pm and was full the next after that got to Syd about 5pm so useless to about 10 of us. Luckily for us that amongst us was a travel agent that had connections somewhere because she managed to get 10 passengers bumped off the 12.30 flight so we could make the ship. When we flew out at 12.30 the 9.30 flight was still sitting there so I don't know when they finally got to Sydney. Qantas meantime had flights to Sydney about every hour so if it had happened to them they would still have got us there in time no drama. I learnt a valuable lesson that day. If you MUST get somewhere on a given day pay the extra and go Qantas or go a day before and blow any savings on accomadation. For any other cases however where it doesn't really matter if you are late go Tiger etc and enjoy the savings.

[Fliegenmong]

Pedota I've read that post of yours before, and really how dare you, how very dare you try to identify any aspect of airmanship...'SkyGods' read these pages you know...and they contribute to threads such as 'annoying and most unusual' habits of Pax, including having to suffer the utter indignation of other airmen (airpeople) making themselves known to them..really :=
:}:}:}

[Mstr Caution]

Pedota - Take a chill pill my friend, I would hardly call it a slamming!

I simply asked the following after your initial post.


Pedota - As a passenger, how did you determine the airmanship part?


I think that was a reasonable question, (as to) how you determined airmanship of the crew whilst you were seated in the cabin as a passenger.

And when you replied


Mstr Caution & Green Goblin

You’re both right . . . and I withdraw that part of my post.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention.


Then, my second post then complimented you on how much you had observed on the particular flight!

[Pedota]

Mstr Caution . . . again you are right and I take and swallow that 'chill pill' as recommended. Thanks for your latter post. But I think you will agree I did get a slamming from Green Goblin!

[Pedota]

Back to substance of the thread . . . this matter has got me thinking.

Porchmonkey, you are right about the capacity QF and VB to “repair” schedules. And to Mostlytosses’ point, I agree that QF can do it better than VB.

That said, it is not always that simple - the cancelled flight to remains cancelled until replacement aircraft/crew or whatever is found and not many passengers can get moved to the next flight at peak times. An airline like Tiger with so few aircraft in Australia will have more difficulty recovering from a delay.

Having made the decision to travel on Tiger I decided to read up on them. The ‘about us’ section their web site is interesting. They have an impressive heritage . . . the key investors are Singapore Airlines, Indigo Partners LLC (headed by Bill Franke, former CEO of America West and many other aviation interests) and Irelandia Investments Limited (ie Ryanair) and Temasek Holdings Pte Ltd (ie the Singapore Government).

If this collective group don’t know a thing or two about running aviation related businesses then I’ll go ‘he’.

Tiger started with two aircraft in 2004 . . . and it they now have more than 70. That’s like VB growth and it will be interesting to see how the airline grows both here in Oz and in SE Asia.

Tiger’s ‘business model’ is described on their website . . . read Ryanair – a very successful operation.

My point still is . . . we are witnessing a paradigm shift in this industry. The business models that supported ‘full service airlines’ are fast dissipating. Perhaps customers are no longer willing to pay for stuff they don’t understand (ie full service) and increasingly the will choose the lower cost and ‘essentially the same’ services.

Michael Pascoe wrote in today’s Fairfax (The Age - Qantas - it's worse than it looks) papers that QF announced to the ASX that its international passenger numbers down 13.5 per cent to 527,000 while Jetstar international passengers jumped 51 per cent to 205,000.

As I see it, we are living in a new world where the choices in travel are but a mouse click away. There is no way that we are going back to ‘full service airline’ model as the standard operational model . . . it just not make sense anymore. We of course expect safety and reliability (that’s what airlines do, right?), and at the end of the day it is but a mode of transport.

I mentioned this on another thread (I apologise to those who have already read it), perhaps some people are waking up the fact that part of the 'full service' means paying for unfunded liabilities like pension plans and unused frequent flyer points incurred in previous years by previous passengers?

But then, perhaps I have said too much . . . I probably should just jump back into the cheap seat, enjoy the ride and shut up!

And I genuinely don’t mean to criticise or annoy anyone – it just isn’t my style.

Cheers

Pedota

[breakfastburrito]

Pedota, when I drive down the street & see everyone from CEO's down driving a Kia or Hyundai I will know that LCC is the only viable aviation business model.

[Track5milefinal]

Tiger Start the MEL-SYD run on Friday (3rd July)

Later on in the month i think the 31st they are doing ADL-SYD.

[porch monkey]

Tossas, did you hit them up for AD-ML-SY? One extra sector, better times. Most times they'll do that if capacity permits. That's also something Tiger can't offer, yet, for the same reasons. Sometimes you have to think outside the square.

Pedota, I hear what you say regarding numbers and such, but you need to take them with a grain of salt. While QF's international numbers might be down, to say that JQ's number are up 50% is not comparing apples to apples. It's the same as Tiger saying that they have grown 15% when the other airlines in OZ have stayed the same or contracted. Going from 2 to 3 a/c gives you a growth of 50% Yet if QF add 1 a/c their growth would be something like .005% As someone once famous said, Lies, damn Lies and Statistics. How much of JQ's growth come as a result of being handed routes from big brother? As I said, apples to apples, if you're going to quote numbers. Not having a dip at you, the company spin doctors from ALL the airlines love to quote bull**** numbers.

[Pedota]

Good points Porch Monkey . . . all taken.

The Michael Pascoe article referred to above (The Age - today) quotes this about statistics. . .

As a 1970s professor of statistics allegedly used to tell his class: "Statistics are like a bikini, ladies and gentlemen. What is revealed is suggestive, but what is concealed is vital."

Cheers

Pedota

[porch monkey]

Absolutely. I work for one of them, and I trust them as far as I can kick them all, collectively.:ok:

[Monur]

Would anyone be kind enough to advise how many Perth there and back overnight flights a pilot could expect to do each month?

Is there a fixed roster pattern?

Thanks.

[Skybus_319]

Would anyone be kind enough to advise how many Perth there and back overnight flights a pilot could expect to do each month?

Is there a fixed roster pattern?

Thanks. From October basically none are to be operated anymore. They will be run earlier in the evening and arrive back in Melbourne at 1am~

[mingalababya]

Is the current Melbourne Tiger terminal temporary or is that "it"? And which terminal are they using in Sydney?

[Monur]

Skybus,

Thank you very much indeed. All we need now is an Adelaide base..........

[Mr. Hat]

Monur they have an Adelaide base.

[mostlytossas]

I have it on good authority that a Tiger aircraft from Melbourne is stranded in Alice Springs with a fuel problem of some sort ( I am led to believe it is something to do with a fuel monitoring pump or simular).
I am also led to believe Tiger put up the outbound passengers in hotels overnight. If this is true, bravo Tiger, as many LCC's won't and it is the passengers bad luck if the aircraft don't go on the day it is supposed to.

[Monur]

Mr Hat - thank you very much; I am definitely interested in Tiger although whether Tiger would be interested in a 59 year old A320 experienced DEC is another matter....

Anyone have a view?

[Mr. Hat]

Monur, I can't see why they wouldn't be. There are some good people in the pilot world working for tiger.

Good luck.

[xrisi]

Tiger Aus has just announced a 7th A320 today to arrive in October to join their Melbourne base for the demand on the MEL-SYD route.
How cool:ok:

[Skybus_319]

This is the famous Fifth A320 for Melbourne that was due 1.5 years ago....

If she was serious she would have stayed committed to the TWO A320's that were meant to arrive later this year, now they only want one....but then again Shelley Roberts and the word committed have never gone together.

The folks at the reins of Tiger are nothing but a bunch of sheep. I can see great plans ahead:suspect:

[Bob Morane]

Skybus Why are you so Critical and Negative!!!!!!! What do you know about running an Airline !!

[Obie]

Pedota really is having a big laugh at the expense of most of you!

And those that he mentions really haven't "got it" yet!

Have a look at the definition of "irony"! :ok:

[boocs]

I hear there are more Sing Tiger pilots transferring to Oz over the next few months....

b.

[Monur]

Thanks P_B,

3,000 hours pic.