Merged: Tiger Tales

[Tiny1]

30% of the market? With 10 jets?

30%? PLEASE!!! Send me the contact details of your dealer. Whatever it is you're smoking, I WANT SOME!

That was an error on my part I was thinking of company shares owned by sin, there market share is about 5%.

Probably 30% of the bogans in Australia. Certainly not 30% of the market.

As for the "BOGAN" term that gets branded about referring to a lower class of the population we will all soon be "BOGANS" with the way this country is taxing us.

I myself must be a "BOGAN", from a working class background studied hard and have now spent 29 years in the industry Military and Civilian.

And I have seen just as Many "BOGANS" waiting to board QF, J* & VA flights.

[Icarus2001]

Tiny1 how did you arrive at they had managed to take 30+ % of the domestic market?

This link is for Qld only but shows about 6% market share to Tiger.

http://www.tq.com.au/fms/tq_corporate/aviation/Domestic%20Seat%20Capacity%20July%202011%20%5BUpdated%20TT%5 D%20(Published).pdf

This article claims 6% nationally.

News analysis: The plight of Tiger Airways | Travel Weekly (http://www.travelweekly.com.au/news/news-analysis--the-plight-of-tiger-airways)

This article claims about 5% nationally.

Flight of Tiger from Australia far from certain (http://www.businessday.com.au/business/flight-of-tiger-from-australia-far-from-certain-20110710-1h8u4.html)

[ReverseFlight]

This strategy guarantees that the AV incident will never be repeated:
Tiger expected to quit Avalon (http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/tiger-expected-to-quit-avalon-20110727-1i087.html)
Tiger is also believed to be planning to abandon its base at Avalon Airport. Its main base in Australia is at Melbourne Airport.

[1a sound asleep]

GROUNDED airline Tiger Airways Australia expects to be cleared to fly again shortly, possibly from next Friday.

The air safety regulator has not yet lifted Tiger's suspension but today issued the airline with a set of formal conditions it has to meet before it can resume flights.

Tiger's grounding runs until Monday but the airline has indicated that Friday, August 5, is the earliest that its domestic flights may resume.

"As a result of the progress made since 1 July 2011, Tiger Airways Australia is confident that it can comply with these conditions and expects to resume services in the near future," a statement by its Singapore-based parent company Tiger Airways Holdings said.


Read more: Tiger expects quick clearance to fly | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/tiger-expects-quick-clearance-to-fly/story-e6frfku0-1226103786485#ixzz1TP5Km2mg)

[slim]

I hear on the grapevine today that Tiger will re-commence ops with only two aircraft and be permitted to increase the number only after satisfying CASA that they are fully compliant.

[Muff Hunter]

Word is JQ want as many as 20 TGR CPT's to employ as direct entry's.

Also hearing TGR fo's have been offered jobs with JQ....

not sure if EBA or contract!!

[KRUSTY 34]

The EBA is CR@P, but it is the E.B.Agreement. To date, the Jetstar contract offers have been nothing short of scandalous.

I have friends in Tiger, and I hope they remain solid.

If they offer you anything but the EBA, just point them in the direction of the Federal court, and don't lose sight of the battle and sacrifices your fellow pilots have, and still are, waging.

[Sunstar320]

Muff you are dreaming mate....

[Al E. Vator]

Muff: Word is JQ want as many as 20 TGR CPT's to employ as direct entry's.
Sunstar: Muff you are dreaming mate....

Sorry but why would working for JQ be 'dreaming'

Nightmare per chance?

[Sunstar320]

How many TGW Drivers want to work for the QF group these days? Thats right, none. Alot have already been there in the past and dont want to go back which is why next to nobody have jumped ship over the past 4 years.

Most have gone to Strategic, who are getting a few more A330's soon, so there goes the next lot of Tiger guys (most are 330 rated), otherwise a few have headed for EY and co.

[Pukka]

Given the Singapore connections of both Virgin and Tiger, watch for a new Tiger to appear that will be Virgin's LCC in Australia, i.e JB will have QF surrounded in the same way as Dicko surrounded Brett with QF and JQ.

Vale QF

[Muff Hunter]

Sunstar,

I'm not dreaming, word is there was a meeting today with all unions present and the cards were layed on the table for the dec's.

Also, the whispers were that around 40 MOU spots will be up for grabs!

[1a sound asleep]

Maybe September or October or December the way it looks. Seems like CASA is treating it like a whole new AOC

The initial grounding was set to expire this week, but Mr Gibson says the company should not expect to be back in the air any time soon.

"Right now the civil aviation authority can't give a time frame on when we might be in a position to make a decision about whether Tiger can fly again," he said.

"There are still a lot of issues to be worked through - Tiger still has to do a lot of work."

Tiger to remain grounded 'for some time' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-04/tiger-to-remain-grounded-for-some-time/2824972)

[PPRuNeUser0161]

In the Australian today they say Tiger are reluctant to meet one of the requirements by CASA. My bet is CASA want Tiger to take control of the initial endo training. ie no more pay up front and get it where you like.

SN

[Lookleft]

If that was the case then J* and Virgin would have to meet the same requirement. What I don't understand is that CASA are saying that Tiger's paperwork is not up to the required standard. What happened to the paperwork that was presented for their original AOC application? Or is it a case of if you start small then there is less paperwork required. CASA should be held to account for why Tiger was allowed to start in the first place.

As for DEC for Tiger Captains into J* they need to have a good look at what happened to the last batch of DEC's in 2008. The other issue is that if Tiger were grounded because of an apparent lack of appropriate standards in pilot training why should they be going to J* as DEC?

[Icarus2001]

My bet is CASA want Tiger to take control of the initial endo training. ie no more pay up front and get it where you like.
If that was the case then J* and Virgin would have to meet the same requirement

I believe there is a subtle difference. Isn't it the case with Virgin that a prospective pilot is compelled to do their endorsement at Alteon in BN because Virgin have an arrangement with this provider. I don't believe you can just help yourself to a 737 endorsement anywhere and start work for them. Although that begs the question that a pilot who is A320 endorsed goes to work for Tiger, they also do not go through a provider aligned with the AOC holder.

I doubt that this would be the major sticking point, it is more about the standardisation issues once inducted into the airline regardless of where the pilot got their endorsement.

[Lookleft]

When VB first started pilots were getting their endorsements all over the world. What are the pilot training issues at Tiger? I haven't seen any information that elaborates on what the specific problems are.

[StallBoy]

Lucky "Tiger" hasn't had any engines fall off a plane :(or an emergency like othe australian airlines :eek: if they did would CASA ever let them fly again.:ugh:

[Orangputi]

Finally someone with an objective view instead of all the Tiger hunters. Sorry this stinks of a conspiracy just like what happened to Compass through the pressure of the TAA and Ansett Duopoloy!

[porch monkey]

Look for the boys to be doing circuits at AV under supervision of, and at the request of CASA. Believe it or not.:eek:

[PPRuNeUser0161]

I recall a CASA spokesman making comment that they are a little concerned with the "pay for your own training" and get your endo wherever thing, they did not mention Tiger specifically though. Although quite legal I think it looks a bit GA ish'.

Normally an airline would employ the odd pilot with an "off the shelf" endo but not the bulk of their pilots, and then they would be given extra sim and line flying to adapt to co procedures.

SN

Edit: I understand its not new, VB, JQ and many others have done it years ago. Perhaps they are picking that point because its something Tiger do differently.

[B772]

Tiger has just announced they lost an average of A$190,000 per day over the last 3 months in Australia up to 30 June 2011. CASA will not be happy with this revelation.

[Jibba Jabba]

Soup Nazi says earlier
In the Australian today they say Tiger are reluctant to meet one of the requirements by CASA. My bet is CASA want Tiger to take control of the initial endo training. ie no more pay up front and get it where you like.


Would be a small victory for common sense if this is the case.

How many millions has this grounding cost Tiger to date? A type rating bonding scheme would have been quite cheap in reality..

Quit your Jibba Jabba fool!

[1a sound asleep]

Tiger has just announced they lost an average of A$190,000 per day over the last 3 months in Australia up to 30 June 2011. CASA will not be happy with this revelation.

Quick calculations says they need to raise average fares, and thats based on previous operating expenses, by $50 per sector average.

If I assume an increase in $4m PA in operating expenses, a $50 increase would give them a $3m profit PA.

SUMMARY - You cannot operate in Australia with average $79 fares. And thats about all Tiger ever got

[ACT Crusader]

For those that haven't heard or read, the Federal Court adjourned proceedings and the airline will at the least be suspended until 11 August. A further Directions hearing is listed for that date.


Further to what others have said above

CASA said that the main outstanding issues are related to documentation that show how Tiger will address the "safety problems".
"We've been reviewing that documentation. We've found problems in it, and said to Tiger they've got to go back and fix those up," said CASA. The documents cover "everything from how the pilots fly the aircraft, to how the aircraft are operated themselves", it added.
The airline's Singapore-based parent, Tiger Airways, yesterday reported a net loss of Singapore dollar (S$) 20.6 million for the three months to 30 June due to high fuel costs and the impact of natural disasters in Australia.

[Sunstar320]

Tiger has just announced they lost an average of A$190,000 per day over the last 3 months in Australia up to 30 June 2011. CASA will not be happy with this revelation. No they didn't.

They lost $19 million between April-June, $7m of which was the "deferred" tax offset, and they Volcano cost the company over $10m.

If it wasn't for the Volcano or the Tax offset, well then the loss would haven been minimal.

[LeadSled]

Folks,
With the latest CASA deferment of any resumption of operations by Tiger, looks to me like CASA are using the "ever changing goalposts" strategy so familiar to GA AOC operators, too numerous to mention, that have fallen foul of the infinitely variable interpretations of our ratbag rules.

Doesn't anybody remember the Virgin Blue star-up, delayed for months by CASA ever changing paperwork demands, cost Virgin a motza, they completely missed the Olympics boost to air travel.

The easiest decision for a public servant to make is to say NO!, it will never come back to personally haunt him, her or it. If somebody courageously says YES, they have made a decision that may bounce back.

Having said NO! about something even more sacrosanct in the public mind than motherhood, "air safety", saying YES is doubly fraught.

In a case like this, I actually feel quite sorry for the worker bees in CASA, I would like to hear somebody a little more "authoritative" than "Minutes to Live"( aka. "Crash") Gibson having something useful to say to the public.

All this stands in total contrast to the US FAA/NTSB approach, where the press releases on alleged non-compliance are rather brutal, but at least everybody (including the traveling public) knows what the alleged problem is, and what changes FAA are demanding ---- and can make a judgement about the likelihood of success of demanded changes.

Tootle pip!!

[GAFA]

Virgin's start date was delayed, but they were operating before the Olympics started (just).

[LeadSled]

GAFA,
Like I said, delayed for months, and missed a boost from the Olympics -- see the rules about advertising/selling anything until you have a AOC.
Tootle pip!!

[B772]

Interesting to see SQ has placed Capt Gerard Yeap Beng Hock as a non-executive Director of Tiger immediately to no doubt protect their Tiger investment.

Capt Yeap is the Senior Vice President Flight Operations of SQ and rated on the A310, B747 and B777. He is also a member of the IATA Operations committee.

With the change of Chairman at Tiger and Capt Yeap it will be interesting to see the changes and if Tony Davis survives.

[Capn Bloggs]

rated on the A310, B747 and B777
Give him a test on the Night Visual Approach rules from AIP! :}

[ACT Crusader]

Update on Tiger

Tiger Airways to get all-clear to fly today (http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/tiger-airways-to-get-allclear-to-fly-today-20110810-1ilop.html)


Tiger Airways to get all-clear to fly today
Andrew Heasley

August 10, 2011 - 1:32PM

The six-week grounding of Tiger Airways Australia is expected to be lifted today by the aviation safety authority, a day ahead of tomorrow's scheduled Federal Court hearing.

But realistically it could take the airline time to get back into the air, in order to sell seats and ready pilots, cabin crew, support staff and airliners for duty.
Fairfax Media believes Tiger's first flight could take off as early as Friday from Melbourne on one of its core routes, possibly to Sydney.

The Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA), which pulled Tiger from domestic flying on July 1 due to a "serious and imminent risk to air safety" is believed now to be satisfied the airline had met its conditions.

Fairfax Media believes the airline has met CASA's requirements over pilot proficiency, maintaining technical reference material and improving its safety management systems.

An administrative process was to be undertaken this morning, with the exchange of formal documents between the parties requiring authorisation by the Federal Court before the flying suspension can be formally lifted and announced.

This includes the safety authority's withdrawal of its Federal Court application to extend the grounding. Once its application is formally withdrawn, the suspension lifts.

This process is expected to take a few hours to conclude.
CASA issued a statement saying it would announce its decision on the airline's grounding at 2pm today.

The no-frills, Singapore-based airline's grounding has resulted in upheaval for the carrier over the past few weeks, including costing its former chief executive Crawford Rix his job.

The Singapore-based group's chief executive, Tony Davis, has relocated to Australia to fix the mess.

The grounding caused disruptions for tens of thousands of passengers who had their travel plans ruined during school holidays and beyond.

It also cost the airline dearly, nearly $12 million over the past six weeks, on top of $13.7 million in forgone ticket sales and refunds, and $1.4 in lost ancillary revenues.

That comes on top of the airline's $18 million loss from Australian operations for the first financial quarter this year.

The airline also drew the ire of federal and state consumer watchdogs for continuing to sell tickets while grounded, before suspending sales after warnings.

Ticket holders have faced weeks of delays in receiving refunds for tickets paid for flights that never took place.

Tiger's Singaporean acting chief executive Chin Yau Seng said last week "our relaunch will focus on route profitability and operational excellence", lending weight to speculation that Tiger will cull a number of its unprofitable domestic routes here, including withdrawing flights from Avalon Airport near Melbourne.






That sounds like code for we aren't going to cut corners and flights won't be so cheap....

[Lookleft]

Just heard that they have got the all clear. Will be interesting to see if the travelling public will go back to them. Even Ansett flew after Sept 11 but no one wanted to travel on them anymore.

[Howard Hughes]

Even Ansett flew after Sept 11 but no one wanted to travel on them anymore.
Surely you mean after the Easter fiasco, they only flew for 3 days after September 11.

Edit: Make that two given that we are day ahead!

[Lookleft]

No I mean the time they flew under administration. Korda Mentha accepted 150m from ANZ as a "take this and we have no further responsibility" payment so that they could play airline mogul. They flew only the A320 and I think it went until the end of Feb when Fox and Lew finally pulled the pin.

[Metro man]

Fox and Lew wanted a government guarantee that they would make money from running the new Ansett. When this was refused they decided not to risk their own money and pulled the plug.

[Mr.Buzzy]

Looks like a good day for the live cattle trade all round!

Bbbbbzbzbzmoooooobbbbzbzbzzzzzzzzz

[Howard Hughes]

No I mean the time they flew under administration.
I forgot about that! Ansett Mark II (sic)

[puff]

Press Release from Tiger Website(my bolding)
MEDIA UPDATE STATEMENT FROM TIGER AIRWAYS AUSTRALIA – updated Wednesday, 10 August 2011

Melbourne, 10 August 2011: The Civil Aviation Safety Authority ("CASA") has notified Tiger Airways Australia that it will discontinue its legal action against the airline. As a consequence, the airline's Air Operator's Certificate ("AOC") has been re-instated and services will resume on Friday, 12 August 2011.

Tiger Airways Australia has worked constructively with CASA to address the concerns that were raised by the regulator, which has now enabled the AOC to be re-instated.

Tiger Airways Australia will resume ticket sales today and will implement a gradual resumption of domestic services from Friday, 12 August 2011.

The airline is resuming services with a simplified flight programme in order to focus on flying popular and profitable routes. Flights will initially resume between Melbourne Airport (Tullamarine) and Sydney. The resumption of services on other Tiger Airways routes will be announced shortly. As part of its simplified flying programme, Tiger Airways Australia will reduce its operating fleet from 10 Airbus A320 aircraft to eight Airbus A320 aircraft. Consequently, two Airbus A320 aircraft will be redeployed to other airline businesses in the Tiger Airways Group.
The new flight schedule will initially consolidate the business into a single crew base operating from Melbourne Airport (Tullamarine) and as a result the crew base at Adelaide Airport will be closed and the crew base at Avalon (Melbourne) Airport will be temporarily suspended. All Tiger Airways Australia staff currently working at the Adelaide and Avalon crew bases will be offered redeployment to the Melbourne Airport (Tullamarine) operation.

Passengers already booked to fly with Tiger Airways Australia from 12 August 2011 will be advised of any change to their travel plans and will be offered a range of options including a free of charge transfer to another Tiger Airways Australia flight of their choice, or if their flight is not operating a full refund back to the original form of payment or a credit for deferred travel.

Tiger Airways Australia is committed to a safe, viable and long term future in Australia. The airline remains committed to regaining the confidence its customers through an enhanced focus on punctuality and convenience, while continuing to offer Australia's most affordable air fares.


Passengers are advised to monitor the website as it will be updated regularly throughout the week with further updates.

Automatic refunds for all passengers booked to fly with Tiger Airways in August up until and including 11 August 2011, will be automatically refunded in full back to the original form of payment.

Note: services to/from Singapore are not affected, including Singapore to/from Perth.

[PPRuNeUser0161]

Closing Adelaide. Another failed foray into that aviation backwater! Is anyone ever gonna make it work there?

SN

[SpannerTwister]

Closing Adelaide. Another failed foray into that aviation backwater! Is anyone ever gonna make it work there?

IIRC didn't Qantas try to shut down Adelaide as a maintenance base a number of years ago ?

ST

[B772]

Some of the Tiger (Aust) troops now have doubts about the future viability of Tiger in Aust and are considering their options.

[1a sound asleep]

TIGER Airways' pilots were forced to prove their flying ability after the airline was grounded last month, and not all of them passed.

Mr McCormick said the number of staff employed by Tiger was not sufficient.

"We certainly didn't have confidence the (110) pilots were at a standard we required," he said.

"As a result, we had to put them all through a test, it was a normal simulator test you'd expect any airline pilot to be able to pass. There were some failures."


Read more: Tiger Airways pilots fail flying test, airline to resume services on Friday | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/tiger-airways-set-to-take-off-again-after-suspension/story-e6frfq80-1226112736404#ixzz1Ufv7avJr)

[mcgrath50]

How many people a year fail their sims at Qantas and Virgin though? Be interesting to compare the percentages.

[Wheeliebin]

Significant number of Jetstar NZ Captains have been watching the Tiger Story evolve. Disenchanted with the bottom of the barrel T&C's in J* NZ - a move to Tiger is appealing! Risky, maybe, but what they've endured won't hurt in the long run. With parent Singapore so keen on success, the future for the Tiger, I believe, is pretty good.

[B772]

Wheeliebin.

Whilst we do not not know what the future holds Tiger (Aust) has announced they are withdrawing from a number of markets and rumour has some more to be announced such as CBR and LST. There will be a fleet reduction of at least 2 a/c. Two crew bases have been closed leaving MEL only.

Even with some resignations in the melting pot I doubt if Tiger (Aust) will recruit any pilots during the remainder of 2011.

[Okie]

The subjection of ALL pilots to an instrument check when they all had valid instrument ratings is illegal. They will have to defend this in the future in a court of law.

[Icarus2001]

Okie, what is your statement based on? My understanding is that when CASA suspends an AOC they can then mandate various terms and conditions on the re-issue of the AOC. This may include checking pilots. Did they do an actual IRT with associated paperwork or simply a sim check?

I found this line interesting...

The web check-in will remain suspended over concerns the airline was not meeting the requirement of seating "able-bodied passengers over wing exits".

I am guessing the question was asked, "how do you ensure they are able bodied, old enough etc", to which the only answer could be that the cabin crew check on board I suppose. How is that different to other carriers? I know with QF, the on line check in will not allow web check in for exit rows, from personal experience (737) and requires pax to present to a (rapidly disappearing) check in counter.

[mcgrath50]

Icarus I have used self check in to assign myself an exit row seat before. Didn't speak to a real person till boarding.

[Icarus2001]

Okay. Thanks for that. Which carrier? I know I could not web check in for QF on a 737 flight about three months ago. The message box that came up explained that it related to the rules about over wing exits. I could assign myself an exit row seat but it would then not let me print a boarding pass, I had to go to a desk so that they could check my "fitness" for that seat.

[mcgrath50]

It was with QF, although for the 737-400 (or possibly 800) over wing exits that are more pop out windows than doors, maybe that makes a difference? The exit row wasn't available when I assigned a seat online but was at the terminal self check in.

[onetrack]

The subjection of ALL pilots to an instrument check when they all had valid instrument ratings is illegal. They will have to defend this in the future in a court of law
What a pile of rubbish! The basis of any licencing system that issues authority to control major transport equipment of any ilk, where intensive skills and knowledge are required... be it aeroplanes, trains, ships, or what have you... is based on those skills being checked on a regular basis to ensure proficiency, and that bad habits are not creeping in.

Despite CASA's deplorable record, in this case they have done the right thing and gone through Tiger with a dose of salts and smartened them right up. Two recorded basic-airmanship failure events, and possibly more that were not discovered, were indicative of a poor environment in Tiger, starting from the CEO on down... that if left without intervention, almost certainly had the potential for a major aviation disaster, along the lines of the Transair Metroliner crash.
The culture, the training, and the skills of any major transport organisation has to be under regular and independent scrutiny, and I for one, am glad that CASA exercised their authority in this case.

[Okie]

The cause of the bozo's inability to execute a missed approach on the A320 and the FO's inability to remember the proper calls as the plane sunk to 38' was attributed to the lack of proper training. I don't recall that airline's entire pilot force resitting their instrument rating sims. A pilot's ratings are his own and have nothing to do with a company's AOC. If you revoke a pilot's rating by letter and then require a retest; yes. That was not done.

[Capt Claret]

A news report in FNQ (probably ABC) suggested that poor record keeping by management meant that CASA could not determine with confidence the IR & PROF currency of the tech crew, and so ordered all back to the sim. :ooh:

[Icarus2001]

A pilot's ratings are his own and have nothing to do with a company's AOC. The rating may well be "our own" but if they are issued by a company check pilot under CAR217 approval and a CASA delegation for the ATO then it sits well and truly under the whole AOC system. If the record keeping is lacking then what CASA required makes sense.

[Phalanger]

Okie, even if there was not an already reasonable legal way for CASA to do what they did, the government could simple pass a statutory law approving the past actions. This has been done before, and as long as the law is within the executive powers of the crown then there is no issue with using this course of action. This is what was done during the Tampa crisis.

Of course someone could try to challenging this action, but considering the power of licensing is well within the executive power of the crown, and that the public interest in the safety and abilities of a pilot well outweighs the small intrusion, the case would not see the light of day.

[Di_Vosh]

From what I have heard from a mate at Tiger, Claret is close to the money here. There may be a bit more to it; possibly best described as "deficiencies in the Sim matrix".

DIVOSH!

[Lookleft]

So based on second hand info and a report from a media outlet posted on an anonymous bulletin board you have worked out where the problem with Tiger's training program is - impressive :ok:

[Di_Vosh]

Lookleft Right back at me! :}

DIVOSH!

[wheels_down]

So have the punters returned?

I hear flights are capped at 144....

[elrehab]

Just curious to know what routes tiger has cancelled, what are their destinations now?. Also, have they closed the avalon base?

[1a sound asleep]

MEL-SYD-MEL

[PoppaJo]

Fri night full, tonight also full. Everything else is in the 30s. :(

[Icarus2001]

Just curious to know what routes tiger has cancelled, what are their destinations now?.

Did you even look?

Tiger Airways (http://www.tigerairways.com/au/en/destination_map.php)

Just a little sad.

Welcome back boys and girls.

[Sunstar320]

This is one good capture!

JetPhotos.Net Photo » YMML Ramp Airport by Mehdi Nazarinia (http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=7169118&nseq=16)

[Howard Hughes]

Three cheers for the QF crew who gave a "welcome back Tiger" on Sydney Tower frequency last night!:D

[PPRuNeUser0161]

HH
Yeah you never know maybe before too long the Tiger guys will be the higher paid!

SN

[porch monkey]

You don't actually believe that do you?

[my oleo is extended]

I for one thought The Screaming Skull looked very dapper in his red power tie when making the announcement that The Cub was back in the air ! A bit different to his usual look of Hawaiin shirt and Nutty Professor hairstyle he usually sports around the corridors of Fort Fumble.

[B772]

Rumour has it there were many complaints in submissions to the Reserve Bank Payments Systems Board inquiry about price gouging of credit card fees by Tiger. The complaints ranged from fees of 15% to 28%.

BTW. What is the new Tiger spoilage fee ?.

[PPRuNeUser0161]

PM
Take it easy mate, just pointing out that Tiger may have to remunerate better (than they have in the past) to keep crew whilst QF are trying to bring crew T & C's down.

SN

[wheels_down]

Any reason VNJ has it's nose and engines missing in the JH hangers? Been like that for weeks now.

[porch monkey]

'Cause it's broken? Or a source of parts for the others?:rolleyes:

[melbourneviewing]

I hear this evening VH-VNH had a Go around due to terrain warning on final, aircraft has been towed to hangars for CVR and FDR download.

[porch monkey]

One would think it would be a spurious warning, of course, you can't assume that at the time so a go around perfectly correct. I hope it turns out to be a spurious warning, for their sake......

[1a sound asleep]

Dear Alan Joyce, what is happening to Tiger is what will happen to Qantas if it tries invading Asia

TIGER Airways plans to raise $S158.6 million ($126m) in a rights issue to fund aircraft purchases and strengthen its balance sheet as the budget carrier recovers from loss of business in Australia, where it was grounded for six weeks on safety concerns.

Tiger Airways to raise $126m to buy aircraft, strengthen balance sheet | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/tiger-airways-to-raise-126m-to-buy-aircraft-strengthen-balance-sheet/story-e6frg95x-1226122553444)

[MkII]

Any reason VNJ has it's nose and engines missing in the JH hangers? Been like that for weeks now.

VNJ's engines have remained firmly in place for the last 7 weeks... The #2 ENG O/B T/R was off, but has been since replaced.

It's nose on the the other hand was removed due to it getting awefully friendly with a tug....

Cheers,
MkII

[MkII]

Porch Monkey,

Unsure if it was a spurious message as the A/C was declared serviceable only the next day, and from what I have been told there was no defect raised, and therfore no troubleshooting C/O. A simple download and on it's way again.

MkII

[PoppaJo]

Music to my ears...

How many brits left now :}

[TBM-Legend]

TIGER Airways said today its acting chief executive, Chin Yau Seng, will take over as the permanent head of the budget carrier on November 1 to replace Tony Davis, who is leaving the company.

Mr Davis, who joined Tiger Airways in January 2005, is the chief of the airline's Australian unit that was grounded for nearly six weeks by local regulators on safety concerns.

Mr Davis is leaving to take up a new position outside the company and will also cease to be an executive director at Tiger, according to a company statement to the Singapore Exchange.

The company is in the process of appointing a replacement for Mr Davis as the chief executive of Tiger Airways Australia, it said. :bored:

[AN1944]

NAR,I TINK THEY NEED AN IRISHMAN THEY KNOW HOW TO RUN IT LOOK HOW WELL QF IS GOING:ugh:

[spabath]

Word is Tony Davis has quit Tiger effective end of October, surprise surprise, I wonder what the next move will be???:D

[ReverseFlight]

Troubled Tiger Airways Australia loses Tony Davis (http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/troubled-tiger-loses-another-boss-20110829-1jhbv.html)
Fairfax Media quizzed Mr Davis on his future in Australia at the relaunch of Australian services on August 10... He laughed at suggestions he'd been sent on a one-way mission. The airline had bought him a return ticket, he said, not a one-way fare. "My commitment is open-ended," Mr Davis said.Pretty quick u-turn there.

[Sunstar320]

No doubt Declan Ryan has given him a job at Ryanair..

[Icarus2001]

He laughed at suggestions he'd been sent on a one-way mission. The airline had bought him a return ticket, he said, not a one-way fare.Pretty quick u-turn there.

No U turn there. Tony was right. He DID have a return ticket to Singapore. So that he could catch his connecting flight to the UK!

Perhaps Tony & Crawford will sit in a pub in England and ponder how it was everyone else's fault.

So is there a lesson here about bringing in overseas "expert management"?

[DrPepz]

Under the previous sia managment, they claimed that running an LCC wasn't their expertise, which is why they capped their equity in TR at 49pc and let a whole new management from ryanair and bmibaby run the show. Besides letting tiger have full use of SIA's training facilities in SIN, SIAks involvement in TR was zero. Heck, tiger didn't even use SIA's ground handling subsidiary in SIN when it first started out.

Now, still with less than 50pc equity in TR, SIA has put their own guy as head of the airline after the australia thing blew in their faces. They also appointed the former Chairman of SIA (1972 to 1994, arguably during the airline's best years) as TR's chairman.

At the same time, they have put their own guy to head the new longhaul LCC subsidiary.

For too long, SIA has managed to provide a superior product at a very competitive cost base. At one stage in the last decade, sq's cost per ask was lower than ryanair and was beaten only by air asia.

One wonders then why SIA wants to waste precious management time running LCCs which they have no expertise in doing. After all. They used to run an airline which had the best product offering in the sky, with a cost base similar to ryanair, without the need to exploit thai cabin crew and what not.

Silly silly silly.

[B772]

I do not think Tony Davis has quit his post is an entirely accurate statement.

"A report from SIN says the move to replace Davis was completely expected after Tigers Australian business was rocked by its grounding during his tenure as CEO.

The impact of the grounding has had grave consequences for the Tiger Group with their quarterly performance ending on 30 June 2011 showing an operating loss of S$23.3M compared to a profit of S$10.6M for the corresponding period last year.

It is now necessary to shore up the balance sheet by increasing equity. The plan is to raise S$158.6M with a rights issue at a 39% discount to the most recent share price"

Tiger must be desperate for the $$$$'s with such a big discount. With July and August (almost) behind them it sounds like they are expecting a large loss for the quarter ending in 5 weeks time.

[AussieAviator]

I have some friends flying for Tiger, who are seriously considering moving to either Strategic or Jetstar. This article doesn't instill one with confidence! I hope that it becomes strong again, as besides providing jobs, it filled a portion of the Australian market, not covered by the others.

New chief executive for ailing Tiger Airways Australia

Steve Creedy
From: The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/)
September 07, 2011 12:00AM


TIGER Airways Australia is believed to have secured a new chief executive as the loss-making airline struggles to slowly recover after its recent grounding for safety reasons.

The Singaporean-owned carrier is only now moving to nine daily return services, and a daily return service to Perth will start today.
It is also running five return daily flights between Melbourne and Sydney, as well as two Melbourne-Brisbane daily returns and one between Melbourne and the Gold Coast.
It is unclear what Civil Aviation Safety Authority restrictions remain on the airline and it continues to play its cards close to its chest, saying its marketing strategy is commercially sensitive and that its dealings with the regulator are confidential.
The airline announced it would reduce its fleet to eight aircraft, but it declined to answer questions about aircraft utilisation or load factors.
Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar. (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/new-chief-executive-for-ailing-tiger-airways-australia/story-e6frg95x-1226130891193#sidebar-end)





End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar. (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/new-chief-executive-for-ailing-tiger-airways-australia/story-e6frg95x-1226130891193#sidebar-start)


However, an industry source said only three Tiger planes appeared to be flying on Monday and the low-cost carrier would be paying monthly lease fees of $330,000 to $350,000 per aircraft. A traveller also reported that an early morning weekday flight had departed last week with only about 25 per cent of the seats having been sold.
Spokeswoman Vanessa Regan said the airline, which still has Adelaide as a destination on its website, was planning to return to other popular destinations in its next phase of development.
Ms Regan said the airline was pleased with the level of demand and "many flights were departing nearly full".
"Tiger Airways is developing the network plan proposed by the business," she said. "The resumption of domestic services is gradual in order to focus on operational excellence."
The airline would not comment on suggestions it had found a new chief executive, saying only it would make an announcement in due course.
It revealed last week that current boss Tony Davis would be gone by November 1 and indicated it was looking for an Australian replacement with local knowledge.

[1a sound asleep]

If I had the option to run from Tiger to Jetstar I would sprint

[Icarus2001]

I hope that it becomes strong again,
Were they ever strong? Four years in operation and they have not made a profit. This FY will be a disaster and their operating costs have now increased markedly as a result of extra staff hired to fill positions as required by CASA as a requirement to get them flying again.
Rumour is that SQ has bought more holdings in Tigers parent company and will inject significant funds to make it work.
I wish them well and believe that they can find a market AND make a profit in Australia but to date they have not achieved that with their VERY LEAN operation, so I cannot see how they will achieve it with higher costs.
If I had the option to run from Tiger to Jetstar I would sprint
Yes but would you be sprinting towards Jetstar or Stategic? Some choice.:bored:

[600ft-lb]

Makes you wonder how Jetstar were profitable from day 1 doesn't it ..

[PPRuNeUser0161]

600ft-lb
Not really, J* tapped a previously untapped market and quickly added capacity to get the critical mass required for profit. Not the same in any man's language. Tiger are trying to bust into an already saturated market. The must have something more in mind for Australia down the track otherwise they would have pulled the pin by now.


SN

[ReverseFlight]

J* tapped a previously untapped market and quickly added capacity to get the critical mass required for profit. Yes, but note recent allegations that J* is effectively subsidised by Qantas, although strenuously denied.

[The The]

Not really, J* tapped a previously untapped market and quickly added capacity to get the critical mass required for profit.

Rubbish! They were handed an instant market share. They stepped into numerous destinations from which Qantas were withdrawn (e.g. OOL). Instant 60-80% market share and instant profitability. Other places like HBA saw a substantial withdrawal by Qantas and again; instant market share.

Had they had to build their own market share, they would have occurred years and years of losses; just like Tiger.

[titan uranus]

Approximately; however, able to make money on those routes where QF couldn't...
JQ just as safe, yet more efficient.

Anyways, this I recall is a Tiger thread. Good to see them airborne again.

[FlexibleResponse]

Ms Regan said the airline was pleased with the level of demand and "many flights were departing nearly full".
"Tiger Airways is developing the network plan proposed by the business," she said. "The resumption of domestic services is gradual in order to focus on operational excellence."

I wonder what they mean by "operational excellence"?

[PPRuNeUser0161]

The The
Your right, QF did hand J* a "ready made" rather than an "untapped" (bad wording on my behalf), market. They have also built on that low cost market substantially you would have to say. My point is that Tiger are having to battle it out in the trenches against some pretty mean well established operators.

I thought they would have pulled the pin when they were grounded. The fact that they are still here tells me they are filling a gap in a market they predict will expand to enable them to grow.

SN

[PoppaJo]

Ex Virgin executive, Andrew David, now the CEO of Tiger Australia.

He was also in the running for the top job at Virgin with Boghetti...

[neville_nobody]

So is he going to introduce some 'Virgin Flare' to the joint?

Ex-Virgin exec gets top job at Tiger
Matt O'Sullivan
September 12, 2011 - 11:41AM

Tiger Airways has named Andrew David, a former senior executive at Virgin Blue, as the new boss of its troubled Australian operations.

The appointment of an experienced airline executive signals that Tiger’s Singapore parent and its cornerstone shareholders, including Singapore Airlines, intend to maintain the Australian operations despite its recent forced grounding due to safety concerns.

Mr David, formerly the chief operating officer at Virgin, will begin on October 17, replacing Tony Davis as chief executive of Tiger’s Australian business. He had been seen as a potential replacement for Virgin’s co-founder, Brett Godfrey, but lost out to John Borghetti for the top job almost two years ago.
Advertisement: Story continues below

Mr David left Australia’s second-largest airline last last year, joining an exodus of other senior managers who had worked under Mr Godfrey.

Before joining Virgin in 2005, Mr David had held a number of senior management roles at Air New Zealand, including chief information officer and head of strategy and planning.

Chin Yau Seng, the acting chief executive of Singapore-based Tiger Airways, said he was confident Mr David could take the Australian operations to ‘‘new heights’’.

‘‘He brings with him a wealth of experience in the airline business and a proven track record as a leader and manager,’’ he said in a release to the Singapore Stock Exchange today.

Mr Davis, who was previously the boss of Tiger’s Singapore parent, is the third chief executive of the Australian business to leave in 18 months. He will officially finish on November 1.

He departure was announced two week ago.

Read more: Ex-Virgin exec gets top job at Tiger | Andrew David (http://www.smh.com.au/business/exvirgin-exec-gets-top-job-at-tiger-20110912-1k54m.html#ixzz1Xhk6fyyw)

[spocky]

Well I suspect you aren't going to be any better off with AD at the helm. Very unliked at Virgin !! :hmm::hmm::hmm:

[porch monkey]

They are welcome to him.

[Goat Whisperer]

Only he saw himself as BG's potential replacement.

I speak for many when I say the changing of the guard couldn't have gone better.

[PoppaJo]

Tiger Airways Thailand now shelved.

With SQ management taking the reins, will be interesting to see where they send all these A320's, Singapore already has too many aircraft for its current schedule.

Tiger Japan?
Tiger Philippines?

Or something they should have done from the start, primarily focus on Tiger Singas and Australia, to create two dominant strong carriers going forward.

[1a sound asleep]

Tiger Australia still exist? Oh yes the Melbourne only airline to SYD, OOL, BNE and PER.

Unquestionably still ripping up millions each week, guaranteed

[Bravo Papa]

The right to live and work in Australia to start with...

[David Eyre]

Tiger Airways Thailand now shelved.

With SQ management taking the reins, will be interesting to see where they send all these A320's, Singapore already has too many aircraft for its current schedule.

Tiger Japan?
Tiger Philippines?

Perhaps they will send them to "Tiger Indonesia" (Tiger has bought a third of Mandala)
Tiger Mandala tie up opens new front in LCC competition | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2011/09/26/why-tiger-mandala-matters/)

Regards,
David

[porch monkey]

One could say they deserve each other....

[Pedota]

Does anyone know when Tiger are planning to return to Alice Springs?

Genuine question – I run an indigenous volunteer literacy program in the NT and I need to get some more volunteers up there soon at the best airfares.

Thanks from anyone who knows what is going on.

Cheers

Pedota

[Xcel]

Best airfares?

Depends on your view then I guess...

Cheapest airfares? More probable...

[Pedota]

Good point Xcel . . . I meant cheapest airfares as we run the program without much funding. Any idea when they are going back to Alice?

[heffy_inc]

Putty Cat is in CBR tonight, anyone know why? Weather diversion (MEL) or some variety of proving flight?

[Turbine Overheat]

Chaos reigns as commuters race home during wild storms in Melbourne | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/chaos-reigns-as-commuters-race-home-during-wild-storms-in-melbourne/story-fn7x8me2-1226148465968)
I'd suspect a weather diversion

[PoppaJo]

Very big storms over Melbourne this arvo/evening.

Most went to CBR and I heard one was going back south to Tassie. One QF 767 went to AVV, SQ was holding for ages, not sure where they ended up.

Surprised the Tiger jet didn't go to AVV as they still have all their stuff there.

[Sammetje]

Does anyone has some more information about the current hiring procedures?

How many people do they need, on what term and which base, etc

thanks in advance!

[Icarus2001]

There IS only ONE base. Melbourne.

Given that their route structure is about 30% of what it was before the grounding it would be doubtful they will be hiring pilots anytime soon.

[airdualbleedfault]

Too many bad memories at AVV Poppa ;)

[Sammetje]

Icarus,

Can you explain me, for what all the agencies are hiring for Tiger in this case?

[74world]

Agencies are recruiting for Tiger SINGAPORE (not OZ) :cool:

[DeltaT]

...FYI for a Singapore Licence conversion 500hrs on type is now required.

[Icarus2001]

Tiger Airways (http://www.tigerairways.com/au/en/careers.php)

[Slasher]

Who the hell would ever want to work for that ratbag outfit?

Tiger airways crew may sue over unpaid wages. (http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/tiger-airways-crew-may-sue-over-unpaid-wages/story-e6frea6u-1226159599505)

[porch monkey]

Guess they'd be the same kind of people I see lining up to fly with them still, Slash:ugh::ugh:

[VBPCGUY]

Was told today that apparently Strategic have been bought out by SQ, and that Tiger will be rebranded Air Australia

[Oxidant]

Was told today that apparently Strategic have been bought out by SQ, and that Tiger will be rebranded Air Australia

Now that would put the cat amongst the pigeons...

[Icarus2001]

apparently Strategic have been bought out by SQ Really?
What would SQ actually be buying? What assets do Strategic own? An AOC and some furniture. Isn't everything else leased?

Tiger will be rebranded Air Australia Yeah that makes sense. Repaint the fleet, new uniforms, new marketing etc but at least they can say we were never grounded, not us, that was Tiger. They are burning cash as it is.

[VBPCGUY]

I would think the aircraft leases would also have to be taken over by SQ also, anyway just what I was told the other day make of it what you will:cool:

[1a sound asleep]

Tiger trying to be smart asses again and the ACCC jumped on them again


Corrective Notice
On 10 August 2011 Tiger Airways issued ‘An open letter to all Australians from the Tiger Airways team’. This letter included the statement ‘Since we haven’t been flying, our competitors have raised their fares by more than 30%’.

Following an investigation by the Australia Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC), Tiger Airways acknowledges that it did not have a proper basis for which to make this statement and as such it may have contravened the Competition and Consumer Act 2010 (CCA) by making a false or misleading representation.

Tiger Airways would like to retract this statement and apologises for its conduct.

[boocs]

Anyone from CASA able to explain if/when Tiger will be able to expand their services beyond 22 per day? I'm sure some of the displaced QF pax would like another option for travelling during their disruptions.
Anyone... hello...???

b.

[boocs]

And further to the above post, will Tiger now be allowed to increase their flights due to the grounding of QF or is CASA still saying "No, no, no... not yet"???
If ever there were a time when more a/c were needed Australia wide..... is now not that time???

b.

[1a sound asleep]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/302647_234411386618397_195291693863700_637337_2143740480_n.j p

I have a feeling any hope of Red rat/Jetstar/Qantasia being a huge success have just been knocked on the head

I think SQ has learnt a lot about LCC in the past few years and I think scoot might just be what SQ is looking for

Watch out Alan Joyce. You have targets on you

[Sunstar320]

Today is also a very important day for Tiger, in that Tony Davis finished his 7 years at the helm yesterday. Certainly did go out with a bang now didn't he...

Hopefully the company will head into a more positive direction, although the question remains if they can build their image back to what it was pre grounding (which was already ****ty). From observations to date, I don't believe it's possible, not for the next 5 years at least. The Tiger brand is well and truly burnt here, and they are going to need one he'll of a miracle to get things moving again.

I am still completely astounded how SIA let this carrier's management make the decisions they have been making over the past four years. What has been happening behind closed doors has just been astounding (god forbid the day the whole "show cause" reasons ever become exposed :eek:) They can't say they didn't see this coming. :mad:

[DrPepz]

Sunstar: SIA took a very handsoff approach to Tiger. Chew Choon Seng, the previous SIA CEO from 2003 to 2010, didn't really care much about his airline. He only aimed to give his shareholders a S$1 dividend per year at least, which based on a share price of S$11 to S$16, is anywhere from 5 to 8%. Which is almost unheard of for any airline.

Under Chew Choon Seng's watch, SIA withdrew from many destinations, including Chicago, Las Vegas, Brussels, Darwin, Cairns, TPE-LAX, ICN-YVR among others. So long as he met his target of being able to give a S$1 dividend, he didn't care much for anything else.

SIA"s marketshare in SIN shrank from 50% to 35% during his term.

He also took a completely handsoff approach with Tiger. With an initial capital injection of $20 million, Tiger was worth about $800 million SGD at its max share price of $1.80. (It listed at $1.50 I think). Today it is 67 cents. As a financial investment, it paid off handsomely in 2010.

And I kid you not, SIA found out about Tiger's grounding from the evening news that Saturday evening.

So Now they have sent an EVP to go and manage it, and are wasting a lot of management time trying to clear up the mess Tony Davis and his team did.

Tony Davis scoots off (OH PUN!) to Europe with $12 million made from his IPO. Nice for him.

[Turbine Overheat]

What is an EVP?

[Whiskery]

Executive Vice President

[otto the grot]

Tigers' recent woes are well and truely history with the travelling public. Reliability is up, planes are full and Davis is gone :D

It seems QANTAS is now the target for anyone who wants to have a go.

[1a sound asleep]

Tigers' recent woes are well and truely history with the travelling public. Reliability is up, planes are full

I call bull**** on this.

[otto the grot]

throw away line 1a.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and wait for a more well thought out response maybe with some support for your argument.

[NIGELINOZ]

Very interesting analysis of the Scoot business case here-
SIA's long-haul low-cost subsidiary strategy to restore growth after a lost decade | CAPA (http://www.centreforaviation.com/analysis/sias-long-haul-low-cost-subsidiary-strategy-to-restore-growth-after-a-lost-decade-52150)
Cheers
N'oz

[porch monkey]

Hey Otto, before you call for figures from others, how about you provide some to support your assertion?

[PoppaJo]

Announcement between 8-9pm tomorrow with the last quarters loss and other announcements.

The loss is expected to be quite significant.

[Sunstar320]

Press conference in Singapore in 30 mins.

[boocs]

When is Tiger allowed to increase their frequencies/flights?? Any word from CASA??

b.

[dl_88]

Tiger Airways announces net loss - Channel NewsAsia (http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporebusinessnews/view/1165380/1/.html)

Tiger's result that was announced

[nobhead]

WHAT A CRAP OUTFIT HOW LONG WILL IT LAST?:cool:

[joblogs]

nobhead your name says it all.

Expected a loss. If SIA puts that money into keeping them afloat dont think there going anywhere soon..

[nobhead]

Hey jb dont get uptight just asking how long do you think sia will keep putting up the cash?, if it falls over ek need drivers! Dxb is nice this time of year.:{

[AussieAviator]

Tiger Airways Australia incurred an operating loss of S$27.2 million for the quarter, with revenue falling to S$8.8 million from S$67.2 million a year earlier.

Wow! That's a large loss for only a QUARTER. Obviousally the grounding hurt alot more than expected, and with the rapid expansion of Air Australia offering full service and similar fares, the public may finish the Auz operation with their feet! I hope not, as Tiger definately kept fares low when they were flying at their peak.

[ozbiggles]

Yep
Charging less than a cab fare to the airport or to park your car.
Great business models.
Think I will invest in the car park operator, offer a slab of concrete and make more money than an airline.

[porch monkey]

Hey Aussie Aviator, I think there's something wrong with your maths. If Tiger make a loss at their price point, how on earth do you think Air Australia can make a profit by, as you call it, offering full service for similar fares? Especially given Air Australia don't have big brother to prop up the losses? Are you serious?

[THRidle]

Air Australia ( or Strategic as it was ) used to be full service, they have now gone low coast.

[Mr.Buzzy]

Air Australia ( or Strategic as it was ) used to be full service, they have now gone low coast.

They had better be careful; with global warming and rising ocean levels, they are going to sink or swim.....:}:}:}

bbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzz

[AussieAviator]

PM, I wouldn't have a clue if Air Australia can make a profit or not. But they are also running a international operation as well, so maybe that makes money and supports the domestic flights. Not my figures either, but from Tiger's quarterly report. Would be nice if they all survive, but can't help but think that it's getting a little bit crowded out there! Main difference appears to be that you can check in a bag, without extra charge, regardless of the fare. Here's a summary from their website.


*
BAGGAGE ALLOWANCES: 23kg baggage allowance applies to all checked baggage pieces. 7kg baggage allowance applies to all carry-on baggage pieces.
*BUSINESS CLASS BAGGAGE ALLOWANCES: Business Class passengers are permitted 2 x 7kg carry-on baggage. 30kg baggage allowance applies to all checked baggage.
SPORTING EQUIPMENT & EXCESS BAGGAGE: Extra baggage is available to be purchased at the airport at the excess baggage rate of $15 per kilogram.
EXCESS BAGGAGE: Any piece over the 23kg baggage allowance will be charged at $15 per kilogram.
SPORTING EQUIPMENT: Any sporting equipment that is not included in your 23kg of checked baggage will be charged at $15 per kilogram. If you wish to carry sporting equipment please contact the Customer Contact Centre on 135 320 at least 48hrs prior to your scheduled departure.
MEALS & DRINKS: A variety of meals and beverages will be available to purchase on-board from the in-flight menu only.
IN-FLIGHT ENTERTAINMENT: A portable entertainment device which will be available between takeoff and landing may be available to hire on selected services. (subject to availability). This will be charged at $15 per portable device. Headsets will be an additional $5.00 each. Headset splitters will be available should passengers wish to share.
COMFORT PACK: Comfort Packs contain sleep socks, eyeshades, ear plugs, a Colgate toothbrush & Colgate toothpaste, a blanket and an inflatable pillow. These are available for purchase on-board for $12 each.
SEAT REQUEST: If you wish to reserve the exit row seats, fees are applicable. For all A320 services, each exit row seat will be charged at $50. For all A330 services, each exit row seat will be charged at $85. Please note exit rows are only available to be purchased at the airport unless booked via our website. Subject to availability.
FLIGHT CHANGES: Changes permitted only as described in applicable fares up to 24 hours prior to departure (charges may apply). Subject to seat availability and payment of any fare differential. Open dates bookings are not allowed. No changes at the airport are permitted. Name changes are permitted up to 24 hours prior to departure. First sector must be unflown. No changes at the airport permitted.
REFUNDS: Fare is refundable only as described in applicable fares (charges may apply). A refund fee of A$100 per person will be charged for no-shows.
PAYMENT: The Fully Flexible + Seat & Business Class products allow for instant purchase on the web OR ticketing required within 3 days through the Call Centre. All other products requires instant purchase only.
CHILDREN: Children aged 2-11 years pay 75% of adult base fare plus applicable taxes. No children fares available for Sale (seat only) fares. All children must be accompanied by an adult unless other arrangements have been confirmed through the Call Centre.
INFANTS: Infants under 2 years are allowed to travel free of charge subject to applicable taxes. Seats will not be provided. Bassinets available upon request.

[boocs]

And now Tiger can (at last) increase the number of their flights!!

Tiger gets half its Australian flight back | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2011/11/15/tiger-going-for-half-throttle-as-casa-eases-flight-sector-restrictions/)

b.

[PoppaJo]

New base coming late June, SYD apparently.

[tiptoeturkey]

Air travellers being 'clawed' on fares | Herald Sun:suspect: (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/air-travellers-being-clawed-on-fares/story-fn7x8me2-1226288196080:eek:)

[porch monkey]

Maybe the other airlines realize that there is a price under which you cannot go, ie, make money. Tiger proved that already, didn't they? Maybe the other "ripoff" airlines don't want to end up the same way as Tiger did? Can you blame them?

[TheWholeEnchilada]

From the bitre page on domestic airfares (http://www.bitre.gov.au/statistics/aviation/air_fares.aspx)
Notes

Indexes are constructed from BITRE's monthly survey of airline internet booking sites. Fares are recorded only when they are available on the nominated day of travel (the last Thursday of the month). The series is a price index of the lowest available fare in each fare class, weighted over selected routes. It does not measure real airline yields, or average fares paid by passengers. For more information on methodology use the link at the top of this page.

[DeltaT]

Porch Monkey are you confusing AA with TT?
TT didn't stop previously because of its fares

Remember your Economics from High School guys, the market forces for a product settle at a price, and for example say 80% passenger load the profit is ok for the operators with their costs, rather than drop the prices lower and not making as much with a 100% passenger load for example. All it then takes is for an operator aka LCC to come in and undercut everyone to get the same profits.
Its then Management of it all behind the scenes that can tip the scales as we have already witnessed several times that makes the difference after that.

[porch monkey]

Delta, you don't think Tiger was grounded because they wouldn't/couldn't spend money on proper maintenance and oversight/company structure? That's what it was all about. And even saving on those elements they still didn't make a profit! That pretty much spells out that you've cut the margin a little too finely, doesn't it? I am presuming you don't buy the notion that they were grounded solely for the ML and AV matters?

[DeltaT]

Fair point, though not many (if any?) large companies start up and make profits straight away!!
Spending money on proper maintenance and oversight/company structure...Management decisions though aren't they.
They have obviously sorted it out and the product is running better now, no?

No they weren't grounded soley for those matters, I believe they were made an example of, and a number of other airlines could have just as easily had a slap with a wet fish as Tiger was. There was more going on behind closed doors with CASA than will ever be revealed on these forums.

[Slasher]

More to the point - there was more going on behind closed
doors with CASA than will ever be permitted to be revealed
on these forums.

[porch monkey]

Absolutely, management decisions, I agree completely. But ultimately, so are your fares. My post was not intended as a slap at the workers, far from it. We will never be allowed to know all the details.

[FlareHighLandLong]

Tiger Airways to establish Sydney base | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/tiger-airways-to-establish-sydney-base/story-e6frf7ko-1226291740576)

Crews, parking/capacity limitations?

Discuss...

[porch monkey]

No discussion required mate! The clowns who run SY airport have already said they can fit anything in, hence there's no need for another airport. So finding room for Tiger will hardly be a challenge! :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[boocs]

In any case, well done for Tiger!! More jobs, flights.... all good.

b.

[nomorecatering]

Would a crew base in Syd be popular with crews. I understand withsome other airlines, Sydney is the least dsireable base due to the high housing costs.

Btw, I flew tiger in Jan and had no problems. yeah Virgin and QF have more flash terminals and cabin, all I want is a seat, and get out on time.

[DeltaT]

Unlike Melbourne airport who don't have enough space for planes.
Essendon training field is going up out there btw... :ugh:

[FlareHighLandLong]

Hmmm,

was very recently involved in a discussion about 'more jobs means more movement, my chances improve etc. etc.':ok:

then AA went bust. :uhoh: (was the prompt for the previous conversation)

And now Tiger's expanding :ok:

But then can we really have Q,Jstar,Virgin,Tiger,Qlink,Rex,Skywest all playing domestic from Sydney with functioning business models? Who's first to crump? Will I have a seat when the music stops?

[ASY68]

Tiger operating a return flight to a certain southerly destination on Friday ;)

Wonder what kind of frenzy will take place with ticket prices...

[wheels_down]

One flight a day will have little impact, but I don't think they have the aircraft time for two.

[ASY68]

With the schedule not release yet it is hard to see... Good to see more destinations coming online though :)

[PoppaJo]

TT8162 departs Melbourne for Hobart about 9am tomorrow.

[DeltaT]

I'm not in Tiger, but can tell you there was no online assessment until now.

[booskins]

Does anyone out there have the contact details for a job with Tiger OZ. Hoping for a telephone number to the chiefs office/recruiting office for pilots and or email ????

Thanks

[DeltaT]

Email address is on their website.
I hope you have a lot of A320 time to be competitive with other applicants, because thats all they are looking at right now.

[wheels_down]

Recently I saw a Rex pilot, this fella was a quite senior in the FO ranks at Tiger last year.

Have TT been laying off?

[DeltaT]

Most likely that person remained at Tiger, while others went to Air Auz, at the time of the grounding.

[jarden]

http://www.themercury.com.au/article...31_travel.html (http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2012/05/29/332631_travel.html)
Tiger Airways' return to the Tasmania market in November.
That airline will run two daily return services between Hobart and Melbourne, with a third to be added over the summer.
Tiger said flights would start from $45.95 and the airline was investigating the possibility of adding routes to Sydney and Adelaide, as well as flights from Launceston.

May start HBA to SYD flights and return on the short lived HBA to ADL route, plus back to LST. Will they resolve their dispute with the SA govt so they can return to ADL soon, they may need to give them a refund of the state subsidy.

[PoppaJo]

The Australian arm is now forecasting a return to profit Q3 this year. Good to see.

Which will mean the fleet could soon head north to 15 from 10 next year.

[ASY68]

We are expecting aircraft 11 next month, most likely VHFJR/9VTJR...

[PPRuNeUser0198]

return to profit"

Was it ever?

[DeltaT]

ASY68, have all the Air Australia pilots been employed yet that are going to be?

[jarden]

Will they make a return to CBR and other cities that got dropped?

[ASY68]

I'll get back to you on that one, also AD mentioned ADL as a next stop, I would love to see the airline take on CBR again, aswelk as all previous routes albeit the profitable ones :p

[londoneasyjetboi]

Not FJR - VH-VNQ fresh from TLS

[joblogs]

who really likes cb let qf and dj fight for it...... -5 foggy mountainous crap. not the mention the polititians
vnq leather and airbags..

[PPRuNeUser0161]

jobloggs
CB is important because when QF go toes up you want the pollies to know who you are.

SN

[porch monkey]

That's funny, right there. You actually think QF domestic will go toes up? And tiger will just slide right on in? I'll have some of what you're smoking, if you don't mind........

[joblogs]

pm l agree....qf wont go all to the dogs domestic will stay on about 4 routes everything else will be on jetstar then will just paint the roo on the tail for far less pay..

[PPRuNeUser0161]

With a wry smile boys, don't get to excited!
SN

[ASY68]

The original VNQ is now 9VTAV...

[4dogs]

I saw an article in the Australian that said:

Meanwhile,the low-cost carrier has also sent some of its senior people back to school. The training of 24 staff at RMIT University involves mainly senior pilots, cabin trainers and safety and quality-related senior ground crew.

Does anyone know what the actual training or course was?

Stay Alive,

[ASY68]

So base number 2 has opened how was day one?

[virgindriver]

TIGER Airways has vowed to run at a loss for as long as it takes to break Qantas and Virgin Australia's dominance in the domestic air fare market.


Tiger Airways flies at Qantas and Virgin Australia's duopoly | thetelegraph.com.au (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/travel/news/tiger-airways-flies-at-duopoly/story-e6frezi0-1226413442521)

Glad I don't invest in Tiger Airways. This is almost predatory pricing, intentionally running at a loss to the detriment of competitors.

I guess safety standards will take another cut too....

[ASY68]

Yeh but daddy's pockets are quite large...

[Dangnammit]

My understanding is Singapore is staying in it to "stick it up 'em!".

Just wait and see what happens when the tiger pounces. Singapore Airlines will make sure it's a success, Scoot too.

just my 2c

[KABOY]

Dr, Pepz said 18/11/2009
KABOY - a bit naive to think that SIA has the time and resources to sit around and burn money on TR just to "look good" and "save face". Singapore is not China and the culture here is by no means "Chinese".

Next, TR is not a subsidiary of SIA. 51% is owned by other shareholders, so SIA cannot unanimously make decisions on what to do with TR.

So Dr.Pepz who's calling the shots in this money burning exercise? Directors don't lose money unless their shareholders are happy to.

[metrosmoker]

"Just wait and see what happens when the tiger pounces. Singapore Airlines will make sure it's a success, Scoot too."

Tiger have been around for 4years+ now, and never made a profit.
My question is, what are Tiger waiting for before they pounce?

[DeltaT]

Go do some research on how Ryan Air progressed.

[PoppaJo]

Tiger's problems over the years are a direct result of one incompetent CEO, who appointed all his ex colleagues from sinking ship BMI. They came, they didn't know the market nor anything about safety, and they sure didn't like spending money. And my god it blew up in their faces.

Today's Tiger is a different story. Run by somebody who knows the market and wants to take the company far. And he is most certainly delivering, will be very interesting how he steers the company over the next 5 years.

Ben Sandilands sums it up quite well..
Tiger Airways' David vows to take down the Goliaths | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2012/07/01/tigers-david-vows-to-take-down-the-goliaths/)

If you build it, they will come.

[ASY68]

With load factors of around 90% for this weekend, it would seem someone is doing something right...

[Tankengine]

Selling tickets for $10 will fill an aircraft for sure.:rolleyes:

[Mr.Buzzy]

90% loads this weekend? First day of school holidays. Why so low?

Bbbbbbbbbzbzbzbzbzbzb

[psycho joe]

If you build it, they will come.

That was also the mantra of the White Star Line.

[ASY68]

VNQ has been delivered and unlike previously mentioned by myself is brand new.

[Plazbot]

Saw it fly out of Maktoum today on the way to Singas.

[108vu]

It has arrived in mel

[PoppaJo]

Bit quiet on the Tiger front lately.

Overnight Singapore posted Q2 results and it appears Tiger Australia only lost $5.7m last quarter. Halved from the previous quarters where it was a running streak of 10-15m loss.

[wheels_down]

I believe that is just Tiger Airways' Holdings portion of the loss, Virgin gains a 10m loss.

$A15.35m loss for the 3 months.

On average they are losing 1.2m a week, or roughly 200k a day.

[RAD_ALT_ALIVE]

Or $16.84 per seat if the fleet of 11 a/c do 6 sectors a day.

[DeltaT]

I've read a post elsewhere on pprune of a large number of Qlink pilots going through the Tiger recruitment process at the moment, any truth to this?

Does Tiger have a Holding Pool back in operation again?

[WSSS]

Tigerair Australia is significantly older but also has been consistently unprofitable since launching in 2007. The carrier, which currently operates 11 A320s on 16 domestic routes, incurred an operating loss of SGD18 million (USD15 million) in 2QFY2013. Tigerair Australia has been conducting a deep strategic review since Virgin Australia took control in Jul-2013.

Seems like all the Tiger branded carriers in South East Asia made a lost the last financial quarter.

Tigerair challenges continue as losses are recorded in Australia, Indonesia, Philippines & Singapore | CAPA - Centre for Aviation (http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/tigerair-challenges-continue-as-losses-are-recorded-in-australia-indonesia-philippines--singapore-135466)

[TexanPilot]

I've read a post elsewhere on PPRuNe of a large number of Qlink pilots going through the Tiger recruitment process at the moment, any truth to this?

Correct.

[ASY68]

VHVNR is on the production line at TLS

[B772]

If Tiger (Aust) want to stay in business they need to make many changes to their way of doing business. Overall passenger customer service is appalling in every area.

[scorcher]

I see on their website that Tiger have vacancies for direct entry Captains in SYD.
Seems like a rare opportunity.
Does anyone know how far away the new EBA is and whether the rumoured fixed roster is part of it?
Any idea how many they are looking for?

[wheels_down]

They have around 100 pilots and 10 aircraft currently, it will be 13 aircraft by March so expect no more than 30 odd.

[ASY68]

10 aircraft currently, it will be 13 aircraft by March so expect no more than 30 odd.

12 in fleet currently.

[wheels_down]

Yes but they are not crewed for 12 aircraft, they are currently rotating aircraft through Manila for maintenance and one just arrived with no extra flying in the programme.

[scorcher]

Was informed today that Tiger has around 140 pilots with another 30 coming online over the next few months and that they are looking for another 30 or so.
Big expansion when you look where they have come from.
Still no word on the EBA?

[ASY68]

VNR entered service early yesterday - was due to enter on Christmas Eve however due to an A/C having an inop APU was chucked in early.

25 Departures alone from MEL today, the tiger is growing...

[ASY68]

Tiger's next 320 is on the line in Germany, Rego to be VH-XUG.

[pull-up-terrain]

I've read a post elsewhere on PPRuNe of a large number of Qlink pilots going through the Tiger recruitment process at the moment, any truth to this?

I guess this is a bit of a thread drift, but is just bloody stupid the system at Qantas, the way there is no career progression for Qlink staff into QF mainline/Jetstar/Cobham. But instead, if they want to progress onto bigger and better things they have to jump ships at a big cost to the qantas group. :ugh:

I dont know what accountant calculated it, but surely it would be cheaper to allow career progression for qflink staff then it is for them to keep on being poached by Virgin/Tiger/Air New Zealand etc.

[airdualbleedfault]

Funny you mentioned Cobham which is not part of the Qantas group but omitted Network which is

[Kharon]

Hear ye. hear ye – The Kangaroo court is now in session; draw near and be heard.

The piece below is extracted from a SMH article – HERE (http://www.smh.com.au/national/safety-questions-hit-tigerair-20140801-zzjij.html) – and perfectly demonstrates exactly how naive the press is when it comes to dealing with matters aeronautical. The 'writer' even has the hide to ask "know more- contact Fairfax". Bloody Ada – this mutt has walked by a bloody good story, picked out the recognisable bits and left the real tale behind. Lets try and help young spotty the journalist (for wont of better).

The captain responsible for the March 3 Sydney to Perth flight was stood down after he reported the erroneous flight plan. He decided to load extra fuel and did not request a new flight plan because he risked missing the Sydney airport 10pm curfew.
Lesson one – the flight plan would not change, neither Sydney or Perth would have moved very far, nor would the air route selected. As Pilot in Command (PIC) the skipper is ultimately responsible (in law) for ensuring that sufficient fuel is loaded and a check for gross errors in the fuel plan is normal. It is a fairly simple matter to nut out how much is needed and ask the fuel truck to pump in some more. So far completely legal and responsible to the company; rather than delay and miss the curfew the skipper has exercised his command prerogative.
Shortly after reporting the flight plan error, the captain's medical certificate was suspended after an anonymous allegation was made to Tiger, Virgin Australia and the Civil Aviation Safety Authority accusing him of cocaine use.
Lesson two. Anonymous; allegation; accusing. Ask the next officer that pulls you up for a RBT how the police would get on in court, for a DUI offence with that type of 'evidence' and could he suspend your licence against it. When he stops laughing, think about your pilot license and professional reputation. Yet without a skerrick proof, CASA 'suspend' the Tiger pilot's brief.
The captain, who is understood to strenuously deny the allegation, had three months earlier passed drug and alcohol tests.
Lesson 3. Guilty and needing to prove innocence through a difficult, expensive, time consuming, soul destroying process. A simple 'routine analysis' will not suffice; a visit to one of the very, very few specialists in Drug and Alcohol Dependency, a fellow of the RACP Chapter of Addiction Medicine (M.B. B.S FAChAM), who must meet the CASA nominated, unusual, extreme prerequisite formal qualifications to 'satisfy' the Avmed comfort prerequisite. This will, in all probability require quarterly blood tests or some other form of 'comfort' test provided to Avmed for a further 12, possibly 24 months, to be sure, to be sure. All of this against an unproven 'allegation'..

A CASA spokesman said it was standard procedure to suspend the medical certificate of any pilot accused of drug use until another drug test was conducted.
Lesson 4 - Bollocks – if the PIC had failed a random and a second test; then quite rightly based on evidence, the medical should be suspended. DAMP statistics alone show that 'real' positives are a very rare event; it seems the strike rate is much better - on the 'accusation' side of the ledger.

Tiger confirmed that the captain and his first officer were stood down after the Sydney to Perth flight. The airline said this was standard procedure to enable both to assist the investigations.
Lesson 5. What's this – both of them; on the Peruvian marching powder: or were they both accused of discussing the botched flight plan then exercising their right, under legal obligation to add the extra fuel required. Perhaps Tiger think the right thing to do would be delay the flight until new 'paper work' was generated, then refuel and then, just for fun, send the passengers to the nearest hotel due to curfew restrictions at Sydney.

The first officer has returned duties at Tigerair and the airline is understood to have asked the captain to return once he complies with CASA's requirements to reinstate his medical certificate.
Lesson 6 – see lesson 3, clearly the FO was not a dope fiend and not ultimately responsible for the safe dispatch of the flight nor it's timely arrival, before curfew in Sydney.

Attempts by the captain to find out the source of the drug allegation have been unsuccessful, with CASA refusing to disclose whether it was someone in Tigerair management or elsewhere responsible.
Lesson 7 – Not only an unnamed accuser, but denied the right to take civil action against 'someone' who has potentially destroyed a career, professional reputation and prospects of future promotion; not to mention a permanent black mark on the CASA ledger, which can and will be used at any future wrangle with the Regulator. Is this fair, reasonable or just? you know it ain't.

CASA has refused a freedom of information request lodged by the captain for all documents regarding the drug use allegations because it would involve an “unreasonable disclosure” of personal information about the source of the complaint.
Lesson 8 – Now insult is added to the injury of a man not yet proven guilty; there is a case where the FOI act was used to establish 'the facts' of an 'accusation'; the results are far from salutary and the picture which emerged was really, really ugly. Now that one was CASA doing the 'accusing' and those documents were released; so why are these documents being denied to the PIC.

CASA also said release of information could harm Tiger’s business affairs and affect its ability to enforce aviation safety laws.
Lesson 9 – This puerile excuse has never, ever prevented CASA putting the boot in, when it suited; CASA were quick enough last time Tiger was bullyragged, in public. I can't believe that they now have, all of sudden - 'come over all sensitive like'.

So there you go young Spotty, there is a real story out there. Why not do your own digging instead of plaintively asking "Do you know more"; get off your arse, your Pulitzer prize awaits.

Read more: Safety questions hit Tigerair (http://www.smh.com.au/national/safety-questions-hit-tigerair-20140801-zzjij.html#ixzz39ARsLgIu)

Apologies for a long post. it is shorter than I would have liked; but, only being a glorified bus driver, with the attention span of a well trained racing rabbit; I leave it up to you guys and girls to have a say.

Selah – and a pagans prayer in hope of continued sanity.

[Capt Claret]

What is a "hydro-tow bar", referred to several times in the SMH article?

Some years ago, post implementation of DAMP, a colleague was mischievously accused of drug use. CASA contacted him, somewhat apologetically, advised him of the allegations and the need to undergo drug use testing (not sure what form but I think blood/urine tests). As best I can recall, he wasn't stood down, and I don't think CASA even advised the employer.

[Lookleft]

All the serious and informed aviation journo's are swanning about in Kiev luxury hotels. Things must be getting nasty at Tiger if pilots are accused of cocaine use by anonymous informers and the Chief Pilot has to issue emails to tell people to stop yelling at each other. I wonder if the email was written entirely in uppercase? The ironic thing is the Chief Pilot has a lot of experience in HF and CRM course delivery in Asian airlines.

[thorn bird]

Capt. Claret, mate your behind the times.

A Hydro-Tow bar is a green party approved device powered by a water wheel. Rain water captured from the terminal roof is used to turn the wheel.

A system of pulleys, gears and clockwork uses the rotation of the wheel to wind a giant spring located within the tug.

When the spring is released it drives the aircraft back, completely carbon free, no emissions at all.

So is this the new CAsA paradigm for bastardization?

Here's someone who may or may not have done something naughty.

Like actually having the temerity to use their initiative, to provide a service to the customers, which they paid money for, of the company he works for, and actually transport them safely and efficiently to their destination.

CAsA cant have that happening, I mean Pilots actually making decisions!!

Quick, find someone to accuse them of drug use.

Use that as an excuse to pull their medical.

Make the conditions for the return of that medical so onerous that with luck they'll either go broke or give up and do something else.

But if they get antsy, and want to argue, use they secrecy provisions of the CAsA mandate and withhold any chance that they might confront their accuser, or seek redress for false accusation.

Mr Attorney general is this what Australian "Rule of the regulator" descended to.

[Kharon]

Sorry Mods; thought (for some strange reason) the Tiger thread was locked – my error; too much..

Good catch Lefty – it's one of the more 'intricate', subliminal questions that needs a response. I wonder if the powers that be have the balls or mental horsepower to look deeply into the 'peripheral' issues surrounding this event (assuming the SMH have not made a dogs breakfast of the tale). The 'culture of fear' spin offs, where a command pilot uses his lawful discretion cops a bollocking and a trip to the Vet to boot. The potential impact on moral that this and other 'side' issues have on overall safety is not often addressed, despite being very real. It may be an issue you and I could sort out over a beer; but any reasoning beyond blind compliance is forbidden, don'tcha know.. This stinks, in so many ways; it really does.

[Oakape]

A 14 tonne change is a large change. It will significantly change every figure on the fuel log - burn, contingency, FR & holding if required. It the flight was an EDTO flight, it will also significantly change the EDTO fuel calculations. While it is still possible manually work out the changes to most of these fuel figures or simply throw enough fuel on that there is way more than the required fuel on board, there will be no accurate breakdown of the various figures.

If the flight was in fact an EDTO flight, there is a requirement to have accurate diversion fuel figures to hand & most, if not all, manuals state that a computer flight plan is required to carry out the flight & that a new flight plan is required for significant changes.


There seems to be more going on here than what has been reported. I have noticed that these sort of reactions tend to happen when there has been some sort of 'history' with an individual & others are just waiting for the opportunity to get some 'payback'. Who knows what was going on here.

Whatever the situation here actually was, the lesson for everyone is to be very careful when trying to 'help' the company and/or the passengers out. It is often better to just ask for a new plan & cop the delay. If you don't make curfew, just do the divert & leave the mess to the company to sort out. Management love it when you make it work, but usually drop you like a sack of hot potatoes when it doesn't.

[Servo]

Lesson, learnt. DO NOT DO ANYTHING THAT HELPS. Simple.

Missed the curfew, not Captains fault. Instead he tried to fix the issue and look where it got him.

[Kharon]

Oakape - "A 14 tonne change is a large change."

Cheers OA, thanks for the insight. If it was (and not doubting) then perhaps tea and biccy's were in order; the SMH story didn't mention the uplift. Ass-u-me – I assumed they were only a ton or three short (top off). Even so; that should remain an internal company matter, not really a matter for the SMH. Stand corrected on the fuel – but the rest – stinks to high heaven.

[Capt Basil Brush]

A 14 tonne change is a large change.

How much fuel does an A320 hold? The min fuel to PER (just guessing) might have been around 12 to 13 tonne anyway, I can't see an A320 being able to take another 14T unless the tanks are bigger than I thought?

Unless iam missing something with this story. (Which is highly likely)

[Lookleft]

It was a 14T change to the TOW not a 14T change to the fuel load. It happened in J* once except the Captain loaded the plan fuel and didn't question the ZFW change. The "Insufficient Fuel" message on the scratch pad
once he loaded the winds in the climb finally got his attention.

[rodney rude]

I'd have done what the skipper did. And I reckon so would many others. I'm required to carry enough fuel to meet the relevant contingencies. As captain I would probably by now have a good feel for my aircrafts fuel requirements. So a manual work out of my load, shove on as much as I then can, I would say I meet all legal contingencies - right or wrong, that's what I'd have done

[dodgybrothers]

So, I might have one or 2 crazy ex's floating about, if they get the sh!ts they can tell CASA I'm on the Uncle Dougs and boom, I'm suspended from flying until I can prove my innocence? Dear Allah, am I back in the middle east?

This is a very troubling news article.

[Servo]

Probably not CASA that initiated. Would have been company. Seen it before. They Will NOT tolerate any bad press that puts it, or potentially puts it in a bad light. Threats and intimidation are a great way to operate.

[Oakape]

Yes, the weight change was in take-off weight, not the change in fuel.

The plan, which allegedly was given late to the flight crew, advised that the plane was carrying zero passengers and, as such, required less fuel than it actually needed to get to Perth. “This meant that all the supplied flight plan calculations were based on a flight 14,660kgs lighter than the actual aircraft weight,” the April 1 report found.

I don't know what the figures are for the 320, but the 737NG often works out at around 10% & I imagine the 320 would be similar. Therefore, a 14,000 kg increase in weight would give an increased burn of about 1,400kg. Plus the extra for VR, FR, etc.

However, SYD-PER is most likely an EDTO flight & if so, perhaps the most important issue regarding fuel is the EDTO requirements. Most, if not all, operators would require a new plan for EDTO operations with a weight change of the reported magnitude. Perhaps that was the reason for both crew members being initially stood down.

[Mstr Caution]

The serious organisational issue for Tiger is:

A) They provided the pilots with the incorrect amount of fuel required to do the flight on the company generated flight plan.
B) If the flight to Perth was planned with actual Headwinds, which 99% of the time there are headwinds
C) If the crew had not entered the average or actual Headwinds into the Flight Management Computer System
D) If the Captain had not detected the company produced total weight error preflight
E) It is possible the Flight Management Computer System would indicate that their was sufficient fuel to complete the flight
F) The flight could have departed with insufficient fuel to complete the flight.

MC.

[Cost Index]

Someone can make an accusation and all this ensues?? :uhoh:

Under what legislation can this be legal or indeed ethical?

If I were the individual involved I'd be going all the way to the High Court. Unless I'm missing something?


Worrying indeed :suspect:

[Bankstown]

I'm not sure that Tiger has EDTO approval.

Here's the ATSB summary:
Investigation: AO-2014-043 - Pre-flight / Planning event involving an Airbus A320, VH-VNJ at Sydney Airport, NSW on 3 March 2014 (http://atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2014/aair/ao-2014-043.aspx)

[thorn bird]

Pardon my ignorance but what is EDTO?, is this a uniquely OZ thing?

[ivan ellerbai]

Got a mate out in ASP where there is a developing "aircraft parking" business prior to sale/scrapping.
Word is that Tiger have one aircraft there already and there are several more due before the end of the year. Also told that the airframes coming aren't that old.
Can anyone confirm?
If true, are Tiger introducing new aircraft - or is it bad news for them?

[mightyauster]

EDTO is Extended Diversion Time Operations, the old ETOPS, except this is supposed to encompass all aircraft that fly further than 60 minutes from a suitable airport, regardless of the number of engines. Considerations include cargo fire suppression, passenger and crew oxygen systems, air-conditioning/pressurization systems, etc.

[Watchdog]

Ivan,

Hasn't "your mate" got a smart phone? Get him to snap you a photo and you can post it here as proof := :=

[Kharon]

OEB# 1500 – Thank you kind Sir, for 'facts' (and the couple of beers I won on those facts). Huh? Where did the OEB post 1500 go??? – just vanished - it's a mystery – no matter, you can guess the details.

Why did the SMH publish that article? which BTW has now made the UK media. It's small wonder newspapers are struggling. I expect the facts and a balanced story were not 'sexy' enough and probably threatened advertising dollars. It is a sad indictment; I'm surprised Tiger has not refuted the story, hosed it down. At best punters will not be too interested in travelling with an airline that can't get the flight planning right and has drug fiends for flight crew. We all know that's bollocks, but the punters? well, that's a whole different world.

OEB – points 1 to 8 (inc) – normal day to day; storm-in-teacup stuff until:-

(9) The fact that a flight planning officer went to ATSB first, not to the company. IF accurate it signifies all manner of problems; if not within the company system then with the individual (or both). Either way it merits some close attention. It also begs the question – who went to Virgin and CASA?

(10) IF accurate speaks of a company operating in a bubble of fear, prepared to sacrifice a pilot to protect the AOC. Sad, sad, sad. Nothing to do with past history of course – Nah.

(11) IF accurate supports the bubble of fear argument; or, defines a really unhealthy management ethos. Either way – not good.

(13) I have now nursed two blokes with similar stories through this nightmare of false accusations, no evidence provided against them, yet needing to prove their innocence. One fellah was 'done over' by CASA, now that is a truly ugly story, alas not one for me to tell on Pprune; but the damage done to reputation is, as stated, immeasurable and permanent. The Tiger pilot will need his mates, colleagues (yes, even those who are not mates) his family and his union to stand behind him. Matters like this, not handled immediately and firmly by the Chief pilot (not management) have the potential to do great damage, not only to the individual concerned. Well, it's too late now to worry about 'it' getting out of the box and sadly Avmed have been involved, which reduces the wriggle room somewhat.

Had this been dealt with swiftly, firmly and 'internally' the PIC had the option of saying "Bollocks – no evidence, you prove it". This has all but vanished, now Avmed is involved. Once his medical has been suspended the CASA 'black letter law' process needs to go the full circle. No one there would dare look at the lack of evidence and throw out the unfounded complaint (they will be very liable if they do); not unless management are prepared to back up their pilot to the hilt and legally 'reassure' the Avmed folks, even then it can become a hellish situation.

Most of the SMH beat-up can be written off as the 'normal' day to day bun fight associated with running an operation; CP writing 'stiff' emails, crew arguments, cocked up flight plans, all the usual day to day crap – just part of the deal. But the dope allegations, reporting to external bodies, the company handling of it and the associated hoop-la does not put Tiger in a good light. Shame really, apart from that bloody awful paint scheme it's probably not a bad outfit.

But, whoever made the 'out of school' allegations and dragged the ATSB, CASA and Virgin into the mix needs to be hauled out, tarred, feathered and ran out town on a rail. This unaccountable, anonymous person, who made a serious, unsubstantiated allegation is guilty of an utterly reprehensible, despicable act of cowardice; bastardry toward the company, the crews and the poor bugger at the bottom of it all.

(16 b) Why test at all? - just ask the resident expert for a psychic evaluation, that should do the trick. CASA have one of those, ask them for a lend, saves a fortune on testing...

[TIMA9X]

Get him to snap you a photo and you can post it here as proofhttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-J7717aORQ3U/U92w08j6piI/AAAAAAAAA9Q/fgyuQQAwo5g/w1172-h879-no/001-tiger-ASP-snap.jpg

[tourismman]

The aircraft in ASP for storage is a Tiger Singapore aircraft.Not Tiger Australia.

Yes 2 more from Singapore coming.

[juzanuthapilot]

In the rest of the world, dispatchers are licensed. An aircraft departs under a joint dispatch authority (PIC and dispatcher).

The flight planner in question (I won't use the word dispatcher), claims he was only shown how to "run a plan 3 or 4 times". Clearly there is no adequate training with regards to the requirements of operational control. But under CASA regs, there is no requirement to conduct such training.

Isn't the lack of regulation regarding dispatchers the root cause of the problem here?

[fruitloop]

TIMA9x
Storage... or Parting ????