Airservices Australia Psychometric Testing

[kazzy01]

I've recently been invited to attend a psychometric testing day in Sydney in a couple of weeks time.

Can anyone who has undergone this day give any insight to what the day involves? Also is there any recommended reading for the day - none is mentioned in the confirmation email.

Thanks

[Knackers]

Kazzy01,

I have endured this psychometric testing nemerous times in Airservices. Their is nothing you can do to prepare for it other than lay off the turps and get a good night's sleep.

It seems to be an endless stream of questions along the lines of "On your day off, would you prefer to go to the zoo or to the museum", and by the time you've done a hundred of them that seem so similar, you'll be feeling loopy.

However, imbedded in the questions is a test for consistency, etc, that can detect if you start answering randomly.

If they offer you a debrief afterwards, take it. I was amazed at what they could determine about my personality! They say that it's not used so much for selection but rather to see the correlations of those who do become successful ATCers.

(Try a Google search.)

[Awol57]

If you mean the full day of testing, its not the multi choice questions alluded to in the previous post. Its a full day of testing. Maths, time awareness, information processing etc. There is no real way to prepare for it (except maybe to practice mental maths with time/distance=speed type questions).

Again lay off the turps and get a good nights sleep. Its pretty challenging.

[LeviTate]

I did the full day of testing in Melbourne in December. Here's a run down of what we did. All tests are done at a computer screen. I can't say this will be exactly how it will run for you in Sydney, but I can't see a reason why it wouldn't be, either. As someone said, you can't prepare for most - except for brushing up on time = distance * speed formulae. Get sleep before hand, relax when you get a chance between tests.

Apart from the first test, we got 5-6 chances at practicing the tasks so it was perfectly clear what the test was. The results of each of the tests was made available within an hour of finishing. You had to get over the pass mark in every one of the tests to be successful. The tests took a lot of focus.

They are trying to determine whether you can process information from numerous souces simultaneously, speed and accuracy of your work, how well you can determine whether information is useful or not, amongst other things.

The Numerical Reasoning Test was 60 multiple choice questions to be completed in 40 minutes. They were all questions about speed, distance and time and they got harder towards the end of the test. Using aircraft speed, so the km/h numbers were quite large.

While were doing this test, there was another test running simultaneously. This was the Interrupt Test. A cassette tape was playing in the background the entire time and every now and then a voice would say "Pens Down - Listen". Then it would say a set of instructions for us to complete on a separate answer sheet in front of us. There were 25 questions and the question sheet included various sets of patterns, numbers, letters, shapes, etc. The instructions got more complicated as time went on. They were not repeated so you had to get them right first time.

An easy example - "Put a circle in the 2nd box from the left and a cross in the last box"

A hard exampe - "Circle all the vowels in the list that follow a consonant, but if that consonant is W or J then underline the consonant following the vowel."

Obviously designed to see how well we coped when interrupted.

Next - the SORT Test. Two shapes would appear side-by-side on the screen for about 2-3 seconds. If they were identical we pressed the F2 key on the keyboard. If they weren't, then we had to sort the left pattern depending on certain categories. There were about 9 phases of this test. And they rotated between having to sort by colour (Red / Green / Blue), by shape (Square / Circle / Triangle / Diamond) or by number (0-250 / 251-500, etc)

Apart from the speed of the test, it was complicated by presenting over-riding rules that were presented at the top of the screen. These rules varied from "Sort all green triangles as blue shapes" to "If the digits add up to more than 10, then pretend the number is 555". Sorting by colour and shape wasn't terribly difficult, but everyone had a lot of trouble with the number sorting. Given the short space of time they flashed on the screen, it was incredibly had to read the number (which was in smallish print), add up the digits, remember where the cutoff points for the sorting categories were, etc.

The rules sometimes would be vaild for a number of turns, sometimes for 1 turn, and sometimes none at all.

It was testing for reaction speed as well as accuracy.

The 3rd test was another 2-in-1 test.

There was a line on the right-side of the screen and a small square on the left. The square would move towards the line at various speeds each time. About halfway along the screen, the square would disappear and we had to press a button when we thought it had reached the line. That was the Time Estimation part. Scores were based on how far before or after the line we got the square.

To complicate matters was the Pattern Recognition Test. While the square was invisible and moving towards the line, up would appear 2 patterns we had to identify as either "Same" or "Different". Again, the score was based on speed and accuracy. It was like comparing the dots on two dice, except that instead of a square they were in a blue circle and instead of 6 dots, there were 13 positions the dots could be in. Not easy to do quickly when you're trying to remember how quickly the square was moving in the background, but I managed OK there.

The last test was some Practice ATC. We were given a simple square are of airspace and we had to guide planes around to their correct destinations safely and with minimal delay. The were 2 air strips we had to land planes on and 4 small gates we had to fly planes out of (N, S, E, W). As each plane appeared on the radar, we had to click on it to recognise it was there, and then guide it through one of the gates or to an airstrip depending on it's destination. We had to make sure they were at the right speeds, direction and altitude. This was over a period of about 20 minutes. At most there were about 12 planes on the screen at once. It's really just a computer game.

[Ultralights]

thanks for that post, as i have just completed the online test a few mins ago..

[kookabat]

LeviTate's pretty much on the money - that correlates with what I did a year and a half or so ago. Most people fall over on the interrupt test (I just scraped through... only to fall over at interview. Now THAT is something you really need to prepare for!).

[SM4 Pirate]

The interviews use STAR type questioning (link below). Multiple permutations and connotations within each question. IMHO, most "real" ATCs are crap with these types of interviews. IMHO, It is not a good 'test' for who will be a good ATC.

Effectively if you feel you did crap at interview, you did, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be an ATC.

http://www.quintcareers.com/STAR_interviewing.html

Good luck, never a better time to apply, more trainees than ever this year, which means most of the course will fail (the entry bar will be set low, 'ey). Traditionally the pass rate is close to 50% get rated +/- 10%.

Good luck; for the "always apply" folks (I'll get in next time attitude), if you don't get through this time, you seriously need to consider your choice of career; cause it won't be more likely than right now.

[LeviTate]

Thanks for the link. Appreciate it a lot. I'm going to be over prepared by the time the interview comes around. It's a far batter option than being under prepared. I don't want to give them any excuse not to hire me.

[kazzy01]

Levitate - thanks for the detailed breakdown of what to expect, it sounds like a fun day ;-)

For the distance speed things, did you use a source of information to find questions ? I was looking in a physics text book the other day and it was getting very complicated, like assume no gravity etc etc which I am assuming it too complex for these needs. Could you post an example of a question?

Also - did you get through? If so, have you had your interview yet?

[LeviTate]

All the questions are multiple choice, so that helps if your good at estimation. From memory a sample question would be:

If a plane is flying at 320km/h, how long would it take to travel 100km?

If Plane A is 250km ahead of Plane B and is travelling 40km/h slower, how long would it take Plane B to catch up to Plane A?

Yes, I passed quite well in the end - a huge relief. :) And the last test - the simulated ATC "game" - was the one I only scraped through by 1 point and was the one I thought I did best at. Go figure.

Haven't heard about doing the online personality test yet, and the interview will be after that. I've learnt to live with HR working v e r y slowly in these matters, but I'm sure it's a combination of HR staff issues, the training college being ready for new learners, Christmas/New Year period, etc.

[Driscoll]

kazzy01,

there's not a lot of study that can be done. I was quite intimidated when I walked in by the number of people fronting with far more qualifications than myself. After the first couple of tests I was thinking that I'd wasted $90 and a day off work. I ended up being one of the minority that passed and got the gig. The key to most of the tests is to stay calm and as relaxed as possible. Rushing will only lead to mistakes. As for the interview process mine was rather tame and I don't think I interview too well. Other people on my course apparently got put through the ringer so who knows? I will say if you get an interview try and take a time early in the day. The panel may have a human or two on it and they will be well and truly over it by the time they speak to the 12th person that day. Good luck.

[adam_753]

Do they at least provide you with a pen and paper for working out the maths? or is it all about mental estimations? How long does the testing take? and also I take it that if you find out your score at the end that you know if you will continue through>

Cheers

[Duff Man]

from (distant) memory, pen and paper provided, none of the arithmetic needed a calculator. For the interrupt test, it really helps to write down all your workings for the arithmetic questions so you can get back to them. And accuracy scored better than number of questions answered - don't rush and make mistakes. If you forget the interrupt question, just ignore it and continue with the arithmetic. Good luck - come back and let us know how you go, either way, and any advice for future applicants.

[ollie_a]

One thing to bear in mind with the numerical reasoning test is you don't get marked down for wrong answers. So if you're running out of time and you haven't answered many questions, if there are four multiple choice answers then by guessing randomly you have a 25% chance of answering correctly. I'm convinced that helped me pass since I took the questions so slowly!

[bigsis]

Driscoll said he/she was intimidated by people who seemed more qualified than him/her. Qualifications don't mean anything. Controllers backgrounds are varied from ex pilots to housewives, electricians, bank tellers, vets, engineers, brickies labourers, teachers, financial advisors, ex defence and straight from school/uni. Please don't let people with paper put you off as in this job it's not important.

[kazzy01]

Thanks for all the replies on this one.

I am worried about it - having previously applied in the UK when I was a lot younger, the testing sounds very different to the ones undertaken there. In UK I passed the testing with no problems, but bombed the interview which over there involves learning lots of technical stuff and having two controllers ask you technical questions around different scenarios they outline (amongst other things).

My mental arithmetic is not the best it could be, so will just try and brush up on that and I guess estimation would be the best way to go. Thanks also for the tips on writing the instructions down from the interrupt test.

For all of these things, I know there is a lot to be said for accuracy over answering all the questions and that they are testing your aptitude for the job, you either have it or you don't.

It's also good to know it's all multiple choice. Does anyone know what the pass marks are on these tests? Is it like 80% or more like 50%?

[adam_753]

let us know how you go will be interesting to see if it is the same as the above mentioned tests

[gazs]

If the tests are still the same as the one that I sat back in April of '07, (which I guess is the case as Levitate has described them), the only piece of information that I can offer is this. The questions are not hard, they are not asking for scientific equations, just straight forward arithmetic reasoning. Relax and allow your mind to think clearly, I was very nervous too but once the test started and I relaxed it flowed nicely.
In the last test of the day you are given a simulator in which to guide aircraft to land, again you have a couple of practice runs before the test begins. Remember this; land into wind, at the lowest level and lowest speed, use speed 2 on final to allow yourself time to control other aircraft before slowing to speed 1 just before threshold. It may sound confusing to you now but just remember the last things that I have told you to do in the simulator as you lose points for landing aircraft too fast.
As I said I completed tests in April '07 and I have just this week received an invite to interview and another test to sit online, apparently this one should only take me about 50 minutes to complete.
Good luck and relax, it will allow you to perform better.:ok:

[adam_753]

So the test listed above are all there is? how does that take up the whole day i think it goes for like 8 hours? I cant believe you passed the test ten months ago and only now are you getting an invite! I started my application back in april 07. I'm probably going to be waiting a while for my interview if I pass this testing!

[LeviTate]

I applied in April 07, but I'm in Melbourne. That probably makes a difference. Online tests were done in July and assessment day in December. Interviews in Melbourne are in 2 wks time. I had trouble being patient with that timeline, I'd have trouble if I'd waited all this time since doing the actual assessment day 9 months ago.

To answer your question, for every test you get to spend a fair while practicing and the instructor spends a fair while explaining each test, just so everyone is in no doubt what the tests are. If anyone's in any doubt after the practice tests, they shouldn't be an ATC :bored:

For the arithmetic test, you only get about 5 sample questions I think.

But for the simulated ATC test at the end you get about 5 practice turns, each about 15-20 minutes long.

Between each test, you get a 10 minute break while the instructors set up the computers for the next one.

And that's why it takes about 8 hrs. You do get results with half an hour of finishing though.

[kookabat]

Timeline when I tried:

Applied June 06
OCAT Aug 06
Testing day Nov 06
Interview Jan 07
Rejection letter Feb 07 :{

Trying again in a year or so!

[gazs]

The delay in the timeline between assessment day in April '07 and interviews this month in Melbourne has to do with the "Global Search" that Airservices conducted for overseas rated controllers. Hiring current controllers from overseas and then putting them through a shorter course to licence them in Australia filled all places at the college late last year(so I am told?).
If anyone is currently working as a controller can you give a current feeling within the industry as alot of posts that I have read are very negative, low morale and fellings towards management and procedures. Also what is the current earnings, what is stated in advertising material is rarely the realsitic figure.:)

[undervaluedATC]

Gaz,
the delay in recruitment is nothing new - 14 years ago, it took me nearly 18months to jump through all the hoops [during which time i finished my B. of App. Sc]

as for money:
based on the current EBA (which expires the end of this year, so things could change - and hopefully they will)

training salary at the college is $35,404. (about a year)
field training salary is $53,000 (hopefully only about 3-4 months, but unavailability of simulator, training positions, training officers can mean it takes longer)
if you successfully get your first rating, you jump to $72,071. but you are also now doing shiftwork - nights/ weekends etc.

the annual increments after that (if you satisfy the pre-reqs) are a lot less impressive, about $5-7K, which almost keeps up with inflation.

actual money in hand will depend on whether you have a HECS debt, but you should be able to work it out at the tax website (ato.gov.au, I think)

Overtime? LOTS and LOTS and LOTS. depending on the group you are sent to, could be as much as 1 or 2 a fortnight. Probably an extra $300 post tax for each 8 hr shift.

at the moment, condition of employment include a 5 year training bond, which means you can't voluntarily leave in that time without paying a penalty exit (exorbitant in 1st year, with slightly less amount each subsequent year, still quite large in 5th year)

also, you have to agree in advance to work wherever AsA send you - so don't count on getting your hometown, or tower, or approach, or enroute, etc.

hope that helps.

good luck with your application, we need every one of you.

[adam_753]

I reckon the thirty minutes would have been terrible? How do you get the results? (verbal written etc) Does anyone know what score/percentage you need so pass each section?
And finially the maths section at the begininning are they all just aviation related speed distance questions or are there a mix of those and other quesitons?

P.S. looking forward to this test!!!!
P.P.S having been nine months already I want to get this over and done with but I dont want to be underprepared!

[LeviTate]

The waiting time for results isn't so bad because you spend the whole time winding down from the effort of the day. It's a relief to know it's all over and there's nothing else you can do to influence the result.

Most people didn't even stay around and just got the email a few days later. They just handed out the bit of paper with the cutoff score for each test and your mark for each test and if you passed each of the 6 tests you will get to to the psych. profile questionnaire and interview.

Cutoff points for each test are meaningless because the calculation of your score is all done by the computer behind the scenes. You get progress scores as you do each practice test so you have some idea of how well you're doing.

The maths questions at the start are all a variation of time = distance * speed - all using aircraft speeds. And as someone mentioned, in the last minute of the test, just randomly select answers for all the questions you haven't answered because you don't lose poitns for wrong answers.

[roomer]

Is AsA currently hiring foreign ATCO's??

[Blockla]

Is AsA currently hiring foreign ATCO's??Well they keep saying they are to the press and to staff; yet no evidence of this "recruitment campaign" is evident.

There is a link on this page:
https://airservicesaustralia.nga.net.au/bin/fnt_jobs_list.cfm?mode=emp_opps
But it states "Applications for the Global Search for experienced Air Traffic Controllers have now closed. Submit your application here to be considered for other future positions."


My sources say they want a total of 85 licenced staff from the 'global recruitment campaign'; we've taken about 32 or so, so far. Then some of those have already returned to place of origin; essentially because of lack of support and the current (dare I say poisonous) work environment.

[SM4 Pirate]

The Bond applies to trainees from when they "get rated". Some recruits I've spoken too had to sign and agree to the bind prior to being offered a position; others have yet to sign the document agreeing to the bond clause.

The issues in my mind:
1)It's not an OS specific bond, relating to the cost of getting an OS recruit on the job; but the Abinitio bond applied to individuals to try and stop them leaving after the impost of ASA paying for their training.

2)The Abinitio bond expires after 5 years of rating, just when if you are going to go, that's when you are 'sellable' on the global stage; i.e. it make no sense at all.

3)Some OS recruits had to sign, others got a 3 year bond, other the full Abinitio 5 year bond.

4)How are you going to attract the right sort of people if you only keep them by making them pay if they leave, given the current global shortage, it's one reason why I'd be black marking ASA when weighing up my options.

5)As it applies after you get rated, some OS recruits are currently thinking of leaving before rating checks or getting assurance it won't be applied if they do rate; otherwise thanks for the last 6 months paid holiday; I'm going home.

[kazzy01]

Hi All - well had the testing today and boy is it tough. All I can say is never give up as you never know how you've done. I was sure that I'd stuffed up part of the first test, but did actually pass.

Out of 16 of us sitting today, about 5 passed.

Apparently the rumour is that interviews might be as early as next week.
Has anyone been interviewed recently? If so, how was it? How long did it last and was there any techinical ATC questions in it at all?

With this in mind, can anyone help me arrange a visit to an ATC facility in Sydney ? Please PM me if you can help with this as I know it can be an advantage to do this before an interview.

Thanks

[Area QNH is...]

ryanduo,

I knew nothing about the bond until the "training agreement" turned up with the rest of the employment documents in the mail.
It applies from when you achieve your initial rating.

$70,000 reducing $14,000 per year over 5 years. (I think it may have changed recently)

The interview is the usual behavioural questions etc.

Good luck.

[Chenky]

I'm looking at applying late next year when I finally have my degree so I'm eligible. Reading this topic has maybe sweat a little (or maybe thats just the 38 degree heat down here).. still I am determined in my resolve.

Having said all that, this topic has been quite helpful in that now I know at least what I'm running into.. :ugh:

Thanks!

[adam_753]

Having just completed the whole process, it's a long slog and it moves slowly at times but I feel pretty confident. I have just completed the interview phase, waiting on offers in the next month so good luck to everyone else who is waiting?

Give it a go

[LeviTate]

I'm waiting too and expecting an answer next week. I had my current boss as a reference and they haven't been contacted yet. Don't know if they will. I'm hoping the response doesn't drag out beyond Easter.

[Dixondik]

For those who have applied over the last month (or few) should hear something soon to begin the long long process. However I am told by AsA HR that the next course is in August, so if you want in for this course, be :mad: quick

[dsham]

there is an abinitio enroute starting April

[adam_753]

My interview was only last week and HR said I would find out in 3 to 4 weeks time, I assume I was one of the last interviewed. Were interviews only conducted in sydney melbourne and Brisbane? How many people were interviewed and how many course positions are they looking to fill?

[adam_753]

What were your referees asked? just the standard? Did they contact all of them?

[Dixondik]

Did the OCAT yesterday. Here's me thinking it would be comparable ot the RAAF Aptitude testing (hmmm, bad assumption:sad:).....Answered about 35/51 we'll see how I go....

[gazs]

Having also sat interview in Feb, Melbourne, references have been contacted today. Not sure what it means but you would hope that when references are contacted that you have been placed on the really short list. Like everyone I would like to know as this process for me has been dragging on for about 18 months now. Referee thought they were being interviewed for a position as the call took about 20 minutes, so to all make sure that you list a referee that has patience

[adam_753]

a seven page questionaire? Was it an email based thing? I will let my referee's know in that case.
Good luck everyone I want to know now!

[dsham]

when i went through the whole long drawn out process, my referees were contacted by phone. They had to answer about 20 questions about your reliability, integrity ect ect. That being said if you get to the referee stage then there is a really strong chance you will get in. There has never been a better time than now to get into ATC - they want to rate some ridiculous number like 90 or so people this year apparently, so if you pass the testing day and dont make a fool of yourself at the interview then your chances are very very good.

[AirBumps]

I'm bumping this thread up because I'm in the process of going through the hoops for the 2009 intake.

Testing day is early Feb. Does anybody out there have any advice for prep?

Cheers,
AB

[Dimebag]

i've got the testing early feb aswell. quite nervous about it.... is there a reasonable chance of being accepted if you pass these tests?

btw the training starts in sep 09...a year after the process started ugghhh, still keen though

[gemmy]

I am also sitting the testing in Feb in Melbs.

Does anyone know how many people are accepted for a course?

thanks. (& good luck to you others sitting the exams)

[Knackers]

There's nothing you can do to prepare for the tests, other than get a decent sleep beforehand. Those that pass are then interviewed for an hour. It's a behavioral interview, so Google it beforehand and practise it.

I've been on the panel a few times over the years, and tell you what, there are some very strange people who pass the aptitude test who have some very strange ideas of how to impress an interview panel We're looking for stable, level-headed, intelligent people who can string two words together with multiple syllables. We're not looking for mature-age boys who get their mums to do everything for them. (My experience is that the girls are a better bet for training. They're used to working 110% to prove themselves equal to a man, and they set themselves high standards. The guys want to coast, and it ain't that kind of course.)

You don't have to know much about ATC but what efforts have you made to find out? Minimum level of interest would be to arrange a visit to your nearest ATC centre or tower. Too far away? Conflict with your footy practise? Wrong time of the day? Car broke down? Don't know the email address? Get real. These are all actual excuses. Save the panel the effort of crossing you off the list.

The courses consist of 12 trainees usually. I expect at least 6 courses for 2010. But I don't work in Airservices much maligned - and rightly so - planning department!

[Pyxie]

I sat the psychometric testing last week and received my email yesterday advising I was through to the next round of recruitment. Yay!

I was under the impression the behavioral interview was next but it's actually a 10 min telephone interview which will be sometime next week. Is this a new step in the process? and does anyone have any advice for it? :)

[Knackers]

'Fraid not. Might be to organize further steps.

[rossco47]

My testing day is tomorrow in Melbourne. Thanks to all with the rundown of what is involved. At least now it's not all going to be a complete surprise/shock.

[AirBumps]

Hey Rossco47,

Good luck mate, mines coming up soon. Any advice you could post after your day tomorrow would be MUCH appreciated!!

Cheers,
AB

[garyd]

hey ross how did u go with the test.. gud enough to make u thru to next stage?

[garyd]

How gud one's pyschometric test performance should be to make him to the next stage??????....

[bluparker]

dude, maybe you should sweat on the little things like level 7 english proficiency before you get too carried away.

[gemmy]

I passed the exams...!! What a relief. Now waiting to hear when the Interview is scheduled.

[AirBumps]

Hey guys,

Thanks to all those who offered support and help for the tests. I did them this week in Melb, not an easy day. I think if I managed to get enough on the first speed/time/distance exam and IT test I should be OK.

They told us that this is the first time that ASA has not wanted the candidates to find out if they past or not on the day, prefering to let us know in an email 2 weeks later. Seems strange since the testers on the day can see the results straight away.

Anyway, cross the fingers.

AB

[undervaluedATC]

Airbumps: They told us that this is the first time that ASA has not wanted the candidates to find out if they past or not on the day, prefering to let us know in an email 2 weeks later. Seems strange since the testers on the day can see the results straight away.

hmmm...... I can think of one reason for this approach given AsA stated aim of putting 100 trainees a year through, but i won't spell it out for fear of libel. :mad:

[Pyxie]

You don't get the results anymore, just the email saying you're through to the next round. So if you've never sat the testing before you'd never know what the cut off are...

Well, I'm just hoping I did reasonably well in that phone interview and will get my email sometime in the next 6 weeks inviting me to the behavioural interview... I'll be ready for it this time! :ok:

Good luck to everyone else in the process :)

[rossco47]

I did them this week in Melb, not an easy day. I think if I managed to get enough on the first speed/time/distance exam and IT test I should be OK.
Well done. I wish I could be that confident... I made the mistake of letting my nerves get the better of me and didn't get a good night sleep. You can't press the point of getting plenty of sleep beforehand enough - it is essential.

I had no problems with 4 of the tests, but I felt the SORT test was beyond my concentration level at the time. Who knows I may be surprised when the email arrives and the other results cover the blimp - but unfortunately your gut feeling is usually right. Well, there is next year :O

[V11]

Well done Gemmy. Rossco47 Goodluck. I have concerns about the numerical test and the sort test, fingers crossed.

[gemmy]

Thanks for the congrats. Still got a little way to go yet. (Studying for the behavioural interview)

Don't stress too much about the sort test, I also thought I had botched that one up. Along with everyone else I spoke with.

At the end of the day.... the tests are to show who is capable of having a better chance of succesfully completing the ATC training, so if we thought those tests were hard, imagine what the training itself would/will be like.

All the best though.

[AirBumps]

Does anybody know on average how long the wait is from testing day to the email results?

Cheers,
AB

[No Further Requirements]

Gemmy, can I ask how you study for a behavioral exam? Just go in there willing to be open an honest and answer the questions as best you can.

You will be asked to recall events in your life based on an example. For instance, you may be asked to tell them about a time where workplace safety was in jeopardy. You will be asked what the situation was, how you were involved, what you did and what the outcome was.

Don't just say 'one time there was some stuff lying on the floor so I put it away' - that will not go well. Be as specific as you can - dates, people involved, what you said, what you did, what outcome there was. That's what they will want to hear.

The only study you can do is to think back to times in the workplace (or school, or home, or whatever) where situations have arisen where you have been involved and there was an outcome - good, bad or otherwise. I am certain you will get some questioning about conflicts in the workplace - have a think about times where you have been involved or have witnessed conflicts at work.

Hope it goes well for you. ATC can be a very rewarding and exciting profession. Make the most of this opportunity and give it your best shot!

Cheers,

NFR.

[howsweetitis]

I just got my email saying I passed psycho tests. Thank god...
Just wondering what they want to know in the phone interview.
In ten minutes I am sure it isn't too difficult?

[gemmy]

When I say study for the interview, I just mean reflect on past experiences etc.
However the 'words' you choose in Interview Answers also has an impact on how well you do. (Sat in on a few HR Panel Interviews in my previous position)... So just going in prepared - well as best prepared as I can be.

It is the STAR technique that ATC recruiting use I have been informed. So like you said, just going over past situations in the workplace etc, recalling the action taken, and the end reult of those actions taken.

I'm also studying up on ASA's background/current climate etc, as I was advised these questions are also asked.

However the 10min phone interview is first, it's within the next couple of days.

So fingers crossed.......!!

[Toboto]

Hallo can anyone tell me how long the ATC interview goes for and how many questions are asked ?

[No Further Requirements]

About an hour.

As many as it takes. Usually a few intro questions (tell us why you have applied, what do you know about ATC etc etc), then the 'meat' questions. Around 4 or 5 I think, of the situiational questions.

Good luck

Cheers,

NFR.

[gemmy]

Just had the 10min Telephone Interview - went well.

Should hear back within the week as to whether I have made it to the Panel Interveiw.

[Pyxie]

Congrats Gemmy, hope you get through :)

I didn't have a great feeling about the phone interview, but I just received my email inviting me to the behavioural interview - now off to book in a time! :ok:

[gemmy]

Hey Pyxie...

Thanks! Congrats on making it to the Interview. When are you scheduled?

Do you live in Melbs or would you have to relocate if you are successful?

cheers,
Gemmy!

[V11]

I passed the day of testing in Melbourne http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/embarass.gif just had the phone interview http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/icon25.gif

Well done Pyxie for getting to the panel interview:D

Goodluck Gemmy with your phone interview http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/wink2.gif

[Pyxie]

Thanks for the congrats :)

Inverviews are in 2 weeks, so that should give me enough to time to prepare as best I can, I booked an early time so hopefully the interviewers won't have had enough of interviewing people!

No not in Melbs. I'm up in Brissy so I'll have to relocate when (I'm thinking positive) I get a place.

[gemmy]

Howsweetitis - have you had your phone interview yet? If so, how did you go? I had mine yesterday...........!

[howsweetitis]

Hi Gemmy, I had my phone interview on Thursday arvo.
It went quite well. I think they are checking to see who has done some homework and who is really interested in the job.
I haven't heard about my face to face interview yet.
It is hard to not get too excited yet. I was nervous about the psychometric tests but at least for the interview you can do a bit of work to hopefully impress them. Fingers crossed.

[Pyxie]

I'm quite excited at this point as well. It's still not over, but I think to get this far you must be doing pretty well :ok:

I'm actually looking forward to the interview. A little bit of preparation on behavioural-type questions, a good night sleep, a deep relaxing breath, be yourself and hopefully it will all go well! :)

Does anyone know how any many trainees AsA are expecting to take on the course?

[gemmy]

Nice work Howsweetitis. They told me after the phone interview I'd get an email about a week later re: the Panel Interview.. so you should hear back anyday now.

I have heard from a lot of current ATCO's that the Interview is the hardest stage... so yes, prepare the best you can.

Pyxie, I was informed that 12 recruits will be on the Sept course, however they are looking to run back to back courses apparently.

[howsweetitis]

Its hard to plan the next few months. We have to relocate to Melb. My partner has just taken a 12 month contract here in Adelaide so I guess we will be apart for a while. I am hoping to finish work in June and then have a few months off to relax but if I get in and dont start until later I might have to re think that. I dont want to be not working for too long.
The anticipation and unknown is frustrating.
It would be easier if I was already in Melb and had a job I could just give 2 weeks notice..
Not that I am complaining!

[V11]

Someone who sat the interview many years ago said there was someone sitting behind them in their interview making hand gestures. They were told this person was a psychologist. The rest of the panel sat in front. They basically tried to rattle the applicant. Does anyone no if we are in for some rattling tactics?

Cheers, V11

[dsham]

When i did my interview (nov 2006) we had a panel of three in front. 1 HR chick and 2 controllers (instructors from the college) it was a purely behavioral type interview. With scenario based questions like - "in your previous work have you ever been faced with a situation where a colleague was doing something that was wrong/dangerous - what did you do about it?

Also i highly encourage everyone to get too a tower/centre - as they want you to know a fair bit about the job as well as show some motivation, ie you got off your butt and did some famil.

[V11]

Thanks dsham that doesn't sound too traumatic. I just visited the Melbourne centre today. It was great to get a realistic picture of the job and to check out the facilities.

[jrbridge]

I just stumbled upon this thread and thought I would add my experiences so far. I am currently waiting to find out a course date. I have compiled the dates of my experiences so far:

23 Feb 2007 - Application submitted online.
9 March 2007 - Completed Onetest Cognitive Ability Test
19 June 2007 - Notified that no courses until mid 2008
19 March 2008 - Completed psychometric testing in Melbourne
29 May 2008 - Attended Panel Interview in Adelaide
7 July 2008 - Notified of successful interview
20 Jan 2009 - I was contacted by phone to make sure I was still interested and if I would consider a posting in Brisbane. Also told to notify referees and tell them to expect a call. At that time expected course for April but no dates. They said they try to give 3 months notice but could be as little as 4 weeks.
17 Feb 2009 - Referees contacted for a 20min interview.

So I am still waiting to hear from them. Quite a long process for me. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask.

Cheers, Jordan

[undervaluedATC]

12 months for the recruitment/selection process is about the average.

someone was saying the April course had been cancelled, but I don't know if that is true or not.

[gemmy]

Has anyone else from the recent testing day been invited for the Behavioral Interveiw yet?

I had my telephone interview last week, awaiting invite for Behavioral Interview!!!! They said on the phone I should hear back this week.

[Pyxie]

They told me it could be up to six weeks before I heard about the next stage when I had my phone interview.. luckily I did't have to wait that long and received my email the Monday a week and a half after my interview :)

When you get the email you have to log on to book in a time, so they will need to have their time table sorted out I guess before they send any emails out... but I wouldn't worry too much - you might get your email today!

[howsweetitis]

Hi Pyxie,
Why are you so special? :O
You seem to be at least 1 week ahead of the rest of us..
Still waiting for my invite also.

[Pyxie]

hehe.. I just am :rolleyes:

Nah, I'm up in Brissy.. could just mean I have longer to chew my nails after my interview though :S

[lamancha73]

Hi gemmy
I'm in the same situation as you. Did the tests in melbourne on the 11th Feb and found I passed on the 17th. Did the phone interview on the 19th and am still waiting to hear back. Lady interviewing me said tha it would take a week or two to get confirmation to go on to the interview.
Patience, I guess, is the key here.

[gemmy]

Yes, Patience is certainly the Key!!

I wonder how many people actually passed the testing in Melbs??. I sat the exams on the 12th. I was told that 11 people passed the exams in Melbs on the 11th Feb however only 3 people passed the exams in Perth on the 11th Feb. (bit of useless info, but kills some peoples curiosity)

[lamancha73]

We were told that 6 out of 18 passed the day before (10th). Four days of tests, maybe 90 tested, so I guess 30-40 people passed. A lot to whittle down and thats just Melbourne.

[Pyxie]

I sat the tests on the first day in Bris, so I can't add to how many passed... but they did have 4 days worth of interview times available for us to choose from, so if every slot is filled you'd be looking at about 30 people being interviewed in Brisbane

[gemmy]

Yes, hence a lot of people flunk out at the Interview from what I have been told.
Back they are also most likely running back to back courses, so that could help also.

[V11]

Then I was one of the 11 on the 11th (happens to be my favourite number). I am also waiting to hear if I made it to the behavioural interview. Getting a bit obsessive about checking my emails so hope to find out soon.

Gemmy, when they say back to back courses, do you know if that means they will run one after the other waiting a year for the next class to begin? Or maybe stagger the start of each class so once they reach a certain stage the next class starts? Or running them at the same time, but morning and evening?

[Knackers]

The courses are staggered, several months apart. The limitation is simulator access. One course must be finishing as a new course enters the sim after 6 weeks of theory. Also, there is a limit to the number of trainees that the centres can accept - the OJTIs (on-the-job-training-instructors) are worn out from training and keeping up with all the changes. If you visit a centre and feel that the controllers are a bit off-hand, don't take it personally.

There is the possibility of maximising simulator access by running courses off-set, morning and afternoon, but unfortunately the restriction at the moment is instructor numbers. And with Airservices refusing to pay potential instructors the equivalent of field salaries, it ain't going to be fixed soon.

After your interview, you're placed on an order of merit. So you may miss out on the next course but be picked up for the following or a later course.

I don't know what Airservices has done with recruiting - it used to be a 6 month process.

[mrtwister]

I'm glad other people are sweating on the phone interview too. Mine will be 2 weeks ago tomorrow and still haven't heard anything. I had no idea that there were people at different stages. I figured everyone who has applied were at the same place.

[Toboto]

Yes I'm from melbourne I had my testing day on the 11th of Feb then I had my phone interview on the 19th of Feb it has been nearly two weeks, I was told around 4 weeks time till I will hear something and to check my email (doing that 5 billion times a day) looking forward to the next step if we eventually hear.

[mrtwister]

That's weird because my interviewer told me it would be 'about' 2 weeks until I heard anything but that's what they also said on my Psychometric day and I received the next correspondence about 1 week later. Shame on me for assuming 2 weeks meant less than that. I check my email at every opportunity as well, and the civil air website as well to see if there's any progress on the Cert Agreement. This is starting to consume my life.:}

[Pyxie]

I don't think it's just you mrtwister.. as soon as anyone replies on this thread everyone instantly jumps online to check!

Good luck to you all, hopefully you hear back soon - all the waiting has got to be the worst part :bored:

[kavi]

I have applied online for Sydney TMA/Tower. Got a mail that passed the first round and asked to fillup 9 page document about past experience and tertiary qualification. got short call why interested and all about working. there after no news
Is there anybody have similar experience or any information about selection of overseas controller for sydney TMA/tower:rolleyes:

[jrbridge]

G'Day all,

I spoke to ASA this morning, there is a course starting June 15th and another in September. As far as I know they are only accepting positions in Enroute, either Melbourne or Brissy.
Cheers

[gemmy]

June Course?? Does anyone know if previous recruiting has been done for that course, or is this round of recruiting for that course also?

I was under the impression that this round of recruiting was for the Sept Intake. Would be fantastic if we had the opportunity for the June Course.. less waiting! But still, Sept would still be worth the wait.

[jrbridge]

Check up at my other post at the top of the page and you will see that going by how long it has taken me there should be plenty of people for the June intake from previous test dates. I don't think they have run many courses lately and are fairly behind.

[ldelaney]

I also heard back within a week after phone interview that i had been successful and had to book a time for my behavioural

[Pyxie]

So you're in the Brisbane round as well ldelaney? Are you coming to Bris for it, or did you get one of the 3 phone interviews times?

I'm off to visit the Brisbane centre tomorrow; I'm looking forward to it, should be interesting :)

[ldelaney]

Yeah im flyin down the day for it :)

[Pyxie]

nice one, well good luck for it :ok:

[ldelaney]

Same to you mate...what day you going for yours?

[Pyxie]

Monday. Figured I'd get it out of the way on the first day, then I can just sit back and relax... (or not :ugh:). How about you?

[gemmy]

Hey Pyxie,

Who did you contact to arrange a facilities visit in Brisbane?

I have a contact in Melbs, however I may be doing my Interview in Sydney, but will be up in Brissy beforehand.

ta.!

[howsweetitis]

So Gemmy, Have you heard about any progress or are you assuming/hoping.
Everybody says ATC is a stressful job, but I didnt think it would be just as stressful waiting to get in...
Have to go and check my emails now.:bored:

[gemmy]

Howsweetitis,... I've been informed that Melbs will be holding Interviews at a later date as opposed to Brisbane, hence the delay in emails.

I know a few ATCO's & they say it's not a stressful job like everyone makes out, it's a high pressure job, it just depends if you allow that pressure to cause you stress!!

I'm used to the whole waiting process.. the Military & the Police were exactly the same! Teaches one to be patient that's for sure. :-)

[Pyxie]

Hey Gemmy,

I just called AsA head office, they put me through to the public affairs guy in Brisbane who arranged a visit with a training supervisor. Otherwise you could call directly to public affairs (contact details on AsA webpage) and they should be able to sort out a visit to any of the facillites...

It was great, I had a tour of the simulator and sat in listening to a couple of ATCO's for about an hour and a bit this morning. Generally just got a brief overview of everything :ok:

[gemmy]

Thanks for that Pyxie. That's great that you got a good look around prior to your interview on Monday.

Yeah, I have sat in on ATCOs working quite a few times in the past.. but only when I was in the Military.. looking forward to a look at the Civie way of Air Traffic Controlling......

You all prepared for Monday?? What time of day is your interview? Good thinking on getting it out of the way on day 1 also !!

[jrbridge]

Well after 2 years of testing and waiting I got the call today for a position on a course starting June 15th, then after training based in Melbourne. Yippee. I just need to find a place to live near the airport. Cheers!

[howsweetitis]

Congrats,
You must be so relieved. Good luck with moving and finding a house.

[Pyxie]

Congrats jrbridge, that's great news - was all the waiting worth it?

Interview is in the morning.. I think I'm about as prepared as I can be for it. It's so hard to know what to prepare for though, seeing as I've received such a broad range of advice for it. Now to worry, I'll know soon enough I guess!

[gemmy]

Good luck for your Interview today Pyxie...fingers are crossed for you!

[Pyxie]

Thanks Gemmy,

It wasn't too bad actually, I think I did the best I could which is all one can really ask. I didn't feel like I was being grilled, which I can recall from my previous interview. There were 3 on the panel - a training supervisor, an ATC manager and a girl from HR.

The HR girl said I should find out in about 3 weeks, so here's hoping my best is good enough...:}

Any news on your interview yet?

[gemmy]

Hey Pyxie,

Well Done indeed. Fingers crossed for you now. Great to hear you went in as prepared as you can..

No news as of yet, apparently no one from Melb testing has heard anything yet. They must be running well behind in organising times etc for the interviews.

I guess 3 weeks isn't too long for you to wait hey!

[mrtwister]

Nice work Pyxie. Now the rest of the interviewees have their work cut out for them. Good to get it out of the way early.

btw gemmy- I did my testing in Syd and I haven't heard anything since my phone interview from 3 weeks ago either.

[Toboto]

Hallo Pyxie any tips you can give us for those who are waiting to sit the behavoural interview?

[gemmy]

Hey Mrtwister.. yeah I heard it's only Brisbane Interviewing at the moment.

Toboto - when is your Interview?? And is it in Brissy?

[Toboto]

I'm from Melbourne, like you said were all still waiting to hear for our behavoural interview down here, i'm just keen to find out ASAP like everyone else, lucky for Pyxie the hardest part of the application is over good luck, but we should be hearing soon i hope, its been 3 weeks since my phone interview.

[howsweetitis]

I think they should let the people who have further to travel know first, so that we have more time to plan our trip to Melb.:rolleyes:
My "check email" button is just about worn out!
I guess the longer we wait now, the shorter we have to wait later.

Now that makes me feels heaps better...
We should all know in less than 6 months.:ok:

[Pyxie]

Thanks, it was great to get it out of the way early. Now just some more of the waiting game.

The best advice I can give is what's already been said previously on this forum - be prepared for any questions pertaining to stressful situations and conflict, be relaxed and be yourself. There's a set of formal question which they ask, but of course depending on your answers they will probably deviate from them with further questions.

best of luck to all, I like howsweetitis's optimism - we'll all know in about 6 months :)

[Big_Flyer]

Im still waiting to hear if i have a panel interview or not. Anyone else in same boat?

[Pyxie]

I don't think anyone from Melbs or Syd have heard yet... Final couple of Bris interviews are today, though.

2 weeks down, 1 to go... not that I'm counting. All this waiting is the worst :ugh:

[Big_Flyer]

What about Adelaide and Perth interviews?

[Pyxie]

Not sure, don't think I've spoken to anyone from there.. what I heard was that it was only Bris interviewing at the moment :confused:

Hopefully you all hear soon though, they said in my interview that they thought they were going through the whole process faster than previously! :bored:

[gemmy]

Yep, I'm also still waiting.(Melbourne)! Perhaps the people who were recently interviewed in Brissy may be going for the June intake??!

[howsweetitis]

Still no news in Adelaide either.
I was thinking that they might need more enrouters in Brisbane so they want to get them started first (in sept), which might mean Melbourne people might be in next group (6 weeks plus).
Hmm! I guess we will know soon.

[mrtwister]

The longer it takes the better for me. Our 3rd child is due in 2 weeks and the longer we have with her before we'd have to move to Melbourne the better. Assuming all goes well of course. Not getting too far ahead of myself!:O
It's probable that they're taking a whole intake from Brisbane I guess. I did my test in Syd but would much prefer an interview (assuming I get one) in Melb so I can visit the ATC centre etc

[gemmy]

Hi all, looks like it'll be another few weeks until we hear back about how our telephone interviews went etc. I emailed HR & they said another few weeks. !

[mrtwister]

Thanks for the news Gemmy.:ok:

[Jimh91]

hi all...i am currently in year 12 and planning on applying for the first course i can..... it is great but also nerve racking at the same time to learn about the rigourous pre-testing, but hopefully i will go through it ok! I have already visited the melbourne centre numerous times and so hopefully that will help with the interview when and if i get that far.

Look forward to hopefully working with some of you in the future!

[Pyxie]

Good luck for when you get here Jimh :) have patience, because it's a loooooong process.

Well, third week since my interview and the tension is building, I should hear something this week, apparently. :bored:

[mrtwister]

EMail finally came through. 5:30pm :p
Interviews are 'probably' in May.
At least I can relax a bit now.
Hope you all got some good news as well.

[Toboto]

Hallo all yes it looks like melbourne emails came through looks like May interviews good to know one more box to tick to becoming an ATC :ok:

[Pyxie]

awesome :ok: congrats on the good news - plenty of time to prepare!

[lamancha73]

Yes Pyxie, definitley plenty of time to prepare! Hope you'll get some good news this week.

[howsweetitis]

The waiting is much easier now knowing another round is definately passed. I might be able to give my fingernails a rest for a few weeks.
I am glad we all find out the same time, I would hate to read others have heard and I am still waiting.
At least with another 6 weeks till interviews I have more time to prepare. I think I should have the ASA website memorised by then. :O
Now I can organise a trip to the Tower and TCU.

[gemmy]

Hey all, yep, also got the email. Time to organise a Facilities visit.!! Luckily I am currently up in Brisbane for 2 weeks holiday (As I live a fair way from any facility at the moment).

[Jimh91]

to those that have been or are currently in the process of applying for atc, approximately when do you first get a call or email to come to an interview or testing day after you first apply? just that im intending on staying in nz for a few months at the start of next year but would like to be over here well in time for when it all begins.

cheers

[Pyxie]

Jimh91,

The first step is an online cognitive ability test, which I think in this round started about 2 weeks after the close of applications (you get about a week to complete it) after that they need to sort through the results and get back to you about a date for the assessment centre, if you were successful. In the case of this current process, applications closed at the end of october, online test in november, an email in december to advise we would hear more in January, then the assessment centre in February.
Hope that helps :)

Anyone from Brisbane heard anything about the results for the interview yet?

[PerkyBog]

I did my interview in Brissy on that first day too. I haven't heard anything yet. I thought I might have heard back earlier like with the other stages but it can't be long to go now anyway.

[gemmy]

I wonder if you Brissy guys/girls will have to wait until everyone else has been interviewed before you get your results back - seeing as though there are only 12 spots for the Sept course.

Unless of course you are eligible for the mid year course. (envious if that is the case)

[Big_Flyer]

Anyone know how many course's after the September course for the 09 intake?

[Pyxie]

eek, I hope we don't have to wait that long! They said they hoped to have it all sorted in about 3 weeks at my interview, so I'm still hoping...

Does anyknow know if they notify by snail mail or still by email of the interview results?

[jrbridge]

I received a phone call to notify me and then the info by email and snail mail.

[mrtwister]

My interview is here in Canberra. Sweet, glad I don't have to fork out more money for flights like I did for the testing.
Booked in for the 7th May. :ok:

[gemmy]

Nice work Mr Twister.. My Interview is in Sydney (only one short flight for me as opposed to 2 flights like last time to Melbourne).
I just read the email, I can elect 11 or 12 May.

I visited Brisbane AsA facilities today... am so glad they had the time to show me around. Very accommodating.!!

[lamancha73]

Melbourne interviews 4th to 8th May. Just booked myself for the 6th. Now to organise a tour of melbourne centre.
Good luck to all.

[Pyxie]

Good luck to all of you! :ok: I just hope us Brissy people don't have to wait that long to hear how we went :ugh:

Gemmy, did you get to sit with any of the ATCO's while you were visiting? Everyone was great and very helpful when I went :)

[gemmy]

Thanks Pyxie.! I just booked in for Monday 11th May.!!

Yeah I sat in for prob around 90mins, 3 different controllers. They were very informative. I even chatted with a controller who recently graduated from the College.

I'd say you Brissy Interviewees would have to wait until we have all completed our interviews so that they can then pick 12 recruits from the National recruiting drive. Would be hard for them to pick say 5 from Brisbane without Interviewing the rest of the Country you would think.!

Unless of course ... you are eligble for the mid year intake!

But I hope for your sake I am wrong.. the waiting sucks hey.

[Pyxie]

It is! All this waiting! Oh well, what can ya do.

[howsweetitis]

I have just booked in for Melb on May 6.
Just have to book some flights now.
I am still trying to organise a tower visit, I was told I had to wait until I had booked in an interview date.

[PerkyBog]

Hey guys. I got an email on Friday saying that I was successful in my interview. Now I'm on an "Order of merit list". They didn't say if or when they want me, only that they'll contact me by July and I shouldn't quit my job or anything like that. Anyone else heard back?

[Toboto]

Mr Perky Bog well that makes sense because, you still have to complete the online personality assessment, referee comments, medical and police checks before any final offers are made, still a long way to go like they said it is a long selection process, if you passed the interview you've got a good chance I'd say, hope you get through.

[jrbridge]

That is not totally correct. The medical tests are done after an offer has been made and accepted. You need to get a Class 3 Medical Certificate. Which involves:
Aviation Doctor
- Blood and Urine check
- ECG
- Lots of questions
- Height and weight

Opthamologist
- Colour blindness and Glaucoma check and vision

Audiologist
- Check hearing for damage

[gemmy]

Nice going Perkybog... another step closer for you! How did you find the Interview overall? What you expected...?

[Heloboss]

FAA Controller here...Who handles Hiring for Tower Controller in Australia. I am curious to know if it compares to Contract Tower work in the US....pay/benefits...etc...?

Have 12 years tower experience in the US and UK.

Would like to hear from anyone on who to contact or just some general guidance...

THanks,

G

[ponti6]

ASA - Airservices Australia handles all air traffic control positions in Australia - Towers included - those applying to be trainee controllers should do their research about the company they are trying to get a job with.

ASA also holds a contract for some Towers in the US, dont know what they pay those contractors though.

[Scanorama]

I am also thinking of applying to become an ATC, AsA website shows that application is closed and will open again in Q4, 2009 for intakes in 2010/2011. I finished year 12 in 2004 and passed English, Maths and Chemistry. At the moment I am at Bible college, studying for Advanced Diploma of Ministry, got my Diploma of Theology last year. I am getting trained to become a children's minister.

I am looking at applying at the end of this year but I have a question. I was born in Hong Kong and moved to Australia when I was 14 (turning 24 this year). I can speak English fluently and can communicate in English without any problem. However I still have an Asian accent - would that affect my chances of getting in?

I am into aviation and ATC in particular. I always listen to my radio scanner - particularly Brisbane Centre 123.4, Sydney TCU - 128.3, 129.7, Melbourne Centre 133.5. I certainly know the basis of how ATC works and some of the terminology.

Thanks.

[Knackers]

Scanorama,

There's heaps of foreign-born controllers in AsA, from all over the planet. Because you were born in Honkers - which from memory, isn't considered an English-speaking country - you will have to be checked against the ICAO standard. Curiously, this isn't done until after you've been selected! At the Academy, this is done by staff from RMIT. Trainees from English-speaking countries are assessed by specifically rated instructors.

[Salinger]

Hi all!

I applied for an ATC position late last year and I had my interview in Brisbane in early March. I found out last week that I'm on the Order of Merit List, so now I'm waiting again to hear if they have an opening for me in October or some other time. Only problem is, my application only last 12 months, so if they don't have an opening for me within 12 months I have to apply again!

Does anyone here have any inside info on what the chances are of getting an October position? And if not October, when are the other intakes?

I'm from Queensland, so moving to Melbourne and taking a pay cut for 12 months of training is an incredibly daunting proposition! However, I know it will be worth it in the long run... but the things you read online about Civil Air and AsA and staff shortages, forced overtime, salary negotiations, etc, etc make me quite worried about this being a clever career move! Do any Aussie controllers out there have some words of wisdom for me?

I'm massively excited about this opportunity, but I'm just a bit scared (to be honest!) about the sacrifices I may have to make and whether or not I'm making the right decision! I would love the chance to have a chat and get some opinions from other ATCs in Australia.

Thanks! :ok:

[undervaluedATC]

Salinger, PM me in a week (once the result of the EBA vote is known) and I will try to answer your questions.

[Funk]

Salinger being unfamiliar with your current job prospects I can't give you advice as to weather you should take the plunge.
Yes salaries are ok, eventually six figures is still a pretty good packet in Oz, basic rostered hours I believe are still 72 per fortnight and leave ranges from 5 to 6 weeks. Great friendships and commaraderie.

Devil's advocate time now.
Training is so hit and miss, I have seen guys and gals that should have made it get cut and you get to work with others who should never have held a license (fortunately for the traveling public these clowns are often fast tracked for promotion away from the console). A couple of mates who got cut in the field are pretty gutted by the experience and it takes them years to come to terms with it (talking financially and emotionally). Generally there are no second prizes for failure.
Once you check out it is mostly boring processing traffic except for when weather arrives in summer months, bad management the likes you would have never imagined in your darkest days, life denuding rosters, one weekend a month off if you're lucky, punitive approach to safety management, if you end up in Area/Enroute you will probably die there not much room for progression or career development (many hands trying to get up the greasy pole).
You'll be off during the day in the middle of the week and you'll get to chat to your electrician, plumber or other tradesman who will tell you he is making as much if not more than you and was able to go water skiing/ kids concert/ fishing with mates/ family picnic last week end (most likely he/she has woken you from your night shift sleep).
From my mates at home; yer the new EBA has given a decent payrise but there has been no improvement in rostering, training or career development. But thats for another thread.
Hope this helps.:8

[Baileys]

?? Now I'm really confused.....

[Salinger]

I think Funk was talking about ATC in Australia, not wherever he currently works.

Funk, you mention financial issues for people who are cut during training... Could you elaborate? I have heard about training bonds and such but know nothing of the details as AsA have not mentioned anything thus far.

My preference was for Brisbane tower, and seeing what you say about En route I think this was a good choice. Any advice on the best pathways to the most opportunities to advance careerwise and financially? ATC is a whole new world!

[Funk]

I was referring to AsA, not my current location where there is a decent salary; roster and training is taken serously.:ok:

Financially I was referring to potential lost income and career progression in their respective former vocations.
Tower is good for variety of locations and the salary is/was the same as Enroute.

[mrtwister]

I'm pretty sure ASA are only training enroute controllers in Sept/Oct. Bris or Melb

[cbradio]

My preference was for Brisbane tower

join the queue of rated Air Traffic Controllers!!

[Salinger]

What does this mean?
Despite the nationwide shortage of staff, there's a list of people wanting to work in Brisbane tower?

Should I change my preference to one where there are more staff needed and therefore (perhaps) increase my chances of getting off the order of merit list and into a classroom?

:ugh:

[jrbridge]

I'm starting in the college in 6 weeks and they are only training for Enroute. Once working in Enroute then you can apply for other positions after 3 years.

[Baileys]

Once working in Enroute then you can apply for other positions after 3 years.

Good luck with that. You will certainly be able to apply.

[Funk]

I'm starting in the college in 6 weeks and they are only training for Enroute. Once working in Enroute then you can apply for other positions after 3 years.A couple of mates of mine waited nearly 15 years to get their transfers out of procedural Enroute, they finally got out, one's in Luxembourg and the other is in Germany. Like the guy said good luck with that :}

[Toboto]

Anybody got any news about anything ?? I saw on civil air that the draft EBA got voted in, 4.7% pay rise each year over next 3 years seems pretty good, although college phase salary is still below 40K

[5miles]

I saw on civil air that the draft EBA got voted in, 4.7% pay rise each year

The average payrise is 4.7% per annum. Those at the top got less whilst some of the lower increments got more.

[howsweetitis]

I had my interview this morning in Melbourne. It wasn't that bad.
Then spent 3 hours at the airport waiting for my plane to come home thinking of all the things I could have said differently. Oh hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Only 4 to 5 weeks to wait. Apparently..
They said the course is in October and maybe March and only Enroute. Not sure of numbers.
Good luck for all that have interviews to go.

[Toboto]

Does anyone know that exact salary for the trainee ATC college year?

[Albizia]

From 1 September, at college $37509, field training $56264, licensed $76582

[Toboto]

Hallo according to a brochure on their website ASA will provide limited assistance to interstate applicants while in Melb attending the academy based training. Assistance generally will be limited to a max of 7 days short term accomodation assistance (room only) and airfare to Melb, Further assis may be considered by ASA but are limited to removal of personal items that are considered essential for day to day living in Melb ASA will not meet the cost of relocating furnishings or vehicles to Melb. Cheap burbs to rent would be tullamarine, very close to airport, when i say cheap its cheap for melb. hope this helps

[No Further Requirements]

ratc2009 - have a good look back thorugh this thread and your questions will be answered.

Cheers,

NFR.

[Toboto]

To anyone who has had an interview, exactly how long after ATC interview were referee's contacted? Mine was on the 4th May.

[Scanorama]

@Knackers, thanks for the information!

And for those who are interested, the intake for Air Traffic Controllers in 2010 has been opened

http://airservicesaustralia.nga.net....app&MemberID=0 (http://airservicesaustralia.nga.net.au/fnt_info_page.cfm?JobID=3945&info_mode=new_app&MemberID=0)

The en-route positions will based at Brisbane/Melbourne Centres.

I am seriously considering to apply. Would someone able to tell me what are some ups and downs of working in Brisbane/Melbourne Centres? My preference is Melbourne Centre out of the 2.

[howsweetitis]

It took me less than 2o minutes to get off my plane and over to the tower by Taxi. It cost $20. Tell the driver first it is a short trip so then he can come straight back without having to line up.
I dont know about public transport but, hopefully, I will be in the same situation. At $40 a day for Taxi's plus bus fair to Airport it's going to be dearer than a car.

[ferris]

ratc2009
The tower and the centre and the 'academy' are co-located, off the airport on the other side to the terminals. There is no public transport. If visiting for the day, then you will need to cab it to the entrance to the compound, and you can walk to any of those three locations from there (100m).
Melb is a tough gig without a car. If you get the job, I couldnt really see you getting by without one. It may be possible to cycle to the asa compound every day, but you would have to live nearby (say, Tullamarine) and be really committed. There are buses to the airport, but it's still a fair distance around the airport to the compound.

As for the difference between the centres- I would strongly advise you base your decision on where you want to live. Brissie and Melb are vastly different in that regard.

[ferris]

Well, to offer better advice, I'd have to know things like where are you coming from? How old are you, what activities do you like, are you really set on not having a car, are you going to share, are you bringing a partner? etc.

Here are some general principles;
It's not easy to rent anywhere, especially for shorter term leases. Look at contacting other people on your course and look to share (your time at the 'academy' is temporary, one way or the other). Tullamarine, Airport West, are closer, and there is nothing wrong with them per se, but dont expect Kew or Brighton. If you want quiet, maybe look at Sunbury. Slightly more upmarket and closer to town- Niddrie?
My gen is a little out of date, so someone else may have better ideas.

[Blockla]

is it on tower road, which is off operations road.Yes.

If you are young and free, you'd be wanting to rent closer to the city, but probably airport side. Kengsington, Moonee Ponds, Brunswick and Ascott Vale would be good starts to look at. Easy access to the City, cheap cabs and good access to public transport for sporting/drinking/social opportunities.

If you are more family orientated options would include Sunbury, Greenvale, Niddrie, Keilor, Essendon, Strathmore... But you are paying more for family type acc the closer you get to the city.

A car or access to a course mates with a car is essential; public transport is a joke to the airport; let alone the other side of the airport.

[Toboto]

Hallo has anyone heard back from the interview stage or had their referee contacted mine was on the 4th of May???

[gemmy]

Hey Toboto,

My interview was May 11th & no - nothing yet. They said it'd take 4-6weeks til we hear back.

No referees have been contacted yet either..I think they said that our referees would be contacted after we had been advised if we had passed the Interview.

However I know I certainly didn't do my best in the Interview, So I'm not holding my breath!

[Toboto]

Thanks Gemmy good to know i'm in the same boat I felt like i could have done better at the interview as we'll, I'll be holding my breath with you hopefully we'll both have good news, good luck!

[mrtwister]

I'm pretty sure there was a course starting in June (15th I think). The one following that is supposed to be Sep/Oct. jbridge has posted on here a few times and is in that intake. When does the Brisbane accommodation search begin?

[jrbridge]

Yep, I'm starting in a few weeks. Pretty excited. Got a place in Melbourne near the Airport. All training is done at the College which is at the base of the tower. Any questions, feel free to ask. I'll keep you updated when I start. Cheers

[mrtwister]

Emails come through today?

[gemmy]

MrTwister.. I haven't heard anything back yet, however my interview was only 3 weeks ago today. Have you got your word back yet? I have heard that some got an email already.

[lamancha73]

Received my email last week wednesday. End of the line for me:(.
Not enough "depth" in my replies.
Hopefully you guys get better news.
Cheers

[gemmy]

Sorry to hear that mate. But I'm expecting the same type of email as I know I didn't give strong enough answers.. but we'll see.

I heard all the people who got interview in Melbs have received their emails... but haven't heard of any others.

[Toboto]

Had my interview on 4th May in Melbourne havn't heard a peep but i'll guess i might this week?

[mrtwister]

Hey All,

I received an email today letting me know that I was successful in the interview phase and that, starting tomorrow, referees will be being contacted some time over the next few weeks. First round offers will be sent out late June/early July.

My interview was 7th May here in Canberra. I'm not sure what their process is for getting back to applicants at this point. It must be an ongoing process.

[Salinger]

mrtwister: I also received an email yesterday... Had my interview in Brisbane in March.
I was informed my referees were to be contacted starting today...

It also mentioned that they would be in touch by the end of "April" (!) to advise the outcome of my application! April! Which year?! I hope that was mistyped!

[gemmy]

Congrats MrTwister...!! Another step closer.

Salinger.. wow, most others who did their interview in Brissy in March found out in April how they went. What a delay for you!!

My waiting game continues... if it's going be alphebatical order, I have a long time to wait!! :-P

[mrtwister]

I contacted recruitment re the April statement. It was supposed to be end of JUNE.

[Salinger]

gemmy: I got an email in April syaing I has made it past the interview and that my referees were not going to be contacted yet, but I had made the Order of Merit list.... And that they would be in touch before July....

And then I got the email telling me they were contacting my referees and would be in touch before the end of April... which mrtwister has kindly informed me was supposed to be June! (phew)

Not long to wait now... Seems like a few of us have made it this far, I wonder how many they cut during the testing and interview phases?

[gemmy]

Toboto - Heard anything back yet? I'm still waiting!

[Toboto]

Hallo Gemmy, I was just about to post the same question? Still haven't heard a peep, maybe after they clear up other candidates references from other states they will contact melbourne interviewee's, it can only be closer and closer until the day they contact us!!

[gemmy]

Hmmm so the waiting game continues for us!! I thought I was all alone ;-)

I know some people in Melbs have heard back.. I was Syd, so who knows. Could be alphabetical order??

[V11]

Not alone. I am another who p a t i e n t l y waits. Pretty sure its not alphabetical. I'm hoping its 'no news is good news' for Melbourne interviews. Has anyone out there had a successful Melbourne interview?

[Toboto]

Hey guess what peeps still havn't heard anything back 6 weeks since interview, I emailed ASA apparently everyone should have heard back already, apprently its being looked into, i'm not holding my breath, if they forgot to notify me i don't hold much hope.....

[gemmy]

Hey Toboto... there a quite a few of us who haven't heard back. SO you are not alone. Good on you for emailing them though, I was about to do the same. I'd just like to know so I can get on with Plan B if I was unsuccessful.

[gemmy]

So I just contacted AsA - not all emails have been sent out yet for some reasons that can not be disclosed. We should hear in the very near future!!

Hang in there!

[jrbridge]

Well folks, started the course today. Whoah. Full on is an understatement!
Second day is the first test with tests virtually every week. They said it's like fitting a 3 year university course into 10 months. However only about 60% will make it past the field training. We have 8 in our course so it's pretty scary times. Maybe all of us will pass. Massive amounts of reading and reference material was given to us, about 2 trees worth I think. Time to knuckle down I guess.

Good luck.

[gemmy]

Hey JRBridge...
So did you survive the first week??? We are all still patiently waiting with baited breath to hear back on how we all went with our interviews... !!
No doubt you have earnt a few quiet beers tonight after this week hey ;-)

[jrbridge]

Well, survived the first week. Starting to come to terms with the college routine. The pressure is extremely high to pass, with a workload that far exceeds what I expected. We have had 2 exams already. The instructors have all been really good. Very knowledgable and just there to help you in any way they can. We don't start our simulator based traing for another 3 weeks, thats when it gets serious. I'll keep you informed.

[Salinger]

Thanks for the update, JR!

Lots of homework involved, I guess?

I'm awaiting the results of my referee checks... both have been contacted.
I'm about fit to burst with anticipation!

Keep us posted, JR, nice to hear what we could be in for!

[Toboto]

Seven weeks today since interview:ugh:

[jrbridge]

Won't be long once the referee checks have been done.

[gemmy]

I'm hearing you Toboto !! Let's just hope that no news = good news!!

[melbATC]

don't worry, it took 12 weeks from my interview, then they usually give you three months notice before your start date.:)

[Toboto]

Hallo all finally heard some thing back from ASA yippie !!!! turns out i'm on an order of merit list (good news!!) and i will be contacted just before my referees will and then have to wait another 4 weeks until I hear whether i will be made an offer of employment, the thing thats sucks is course won't be until 2010 and they don't even know when? I was really looking forward to starting in september if i get through, anyone else heard back???

[gemmy]

Congrats Toboto.. Yep, I too got the exact same email. !!! The waiting game now continues AGAIN! haha.

I was told in the interview that If I were successful it would most likely be for a 2010 course, so I was prepared for the wait. She said it would possibly be in March.

WOOHOOO.. one step closer for us!!

[V11]

Yep, got the email also. Yay! Congrats Toboto and Gemma.
Great to finally know we made it through the interview process, hears hoping for March http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif

[gemmy]

Well done V11.. now we'll most likely have to sit & wait for about another 4mths until we hear anything again :-(

[mrtwister]

Congratulations all that received the long awaited email. Despite being told 4 weeks ago that referees were being contacted as of immediately, mine still haven't ben contacted. Not quite sure what's going on anymore. The course that was supposed to start in October is barely 3 months away and I don't know of anyone that has been offered a place in it yet. I'm sticking with optimism however and I am sure all will be revealed by the end of next week.:rolleyes:

[gemmy]

MrTwister... Maybe check with jrbridge how much notice he was given before he started course. We were told in our emails that our referees would be contacted approx 4 weeks prior to being offered a spot on course. Therefore I don't think we'll hear anything back until Dec/Jan.

[jrbridge]

Congratulations to all who have heard back. I was given 3 months and 1 weeks notice before starting. The referees were only contacted a couple of weeks before that. With me they rang me just before they rang my referees to get them ready.

[gemmy]

Thanks jrbridge. Yes they said in the email that they (HR) would also verbally contact us prior to contacting our referees. They said they would contact our referees approx 4weeks prior to making a course offer.

[mont]

Hi Guys congratulations to gemmy, toboto and V11. I also heard on Friday that I was accepted into the pool after interviewing in early May. :)

[gemmy]

Congrats Mont & welcome to the forum !! Now we sit & wait until the end of the year until we next hear if we have made it into the top list to get our referee checks!!

The joys of the waiting game continue ...;-)

[Salinger]

Both of my referees have been checked now...
I was interviewed in Brisbane in March.

My last email said I'd be notified by the end of April if I had a position for the October intake (however this was an error and they meant June!). The end of June nears and my 'Send / Receive' button is wearing out, my phone has never been stared at more intently and I've never checked my snail mail box with such regularity!

And to think, this all started so innocently back in August 08...

[gemmy]

Nice work Salinger.. like jrbridge said, he got 3mths notice before starting course... so you'll most likely hear in July! Which is only a couple of days away anyways!!

Yeah, I also submitted my application in Aug 08, however it appears the Brisbane applicants are the lucky ones who are going for the Oct course!! I did my testing in Melbs, but interview in Syd & am eligible for 2010 courses.

All good though!!

[enemyMiG]

Hi everyone

Well done all you guys who finally heard some good news last Fri, as I did.

Had my interview in Melb and it was nice to know I wasn't the only one cracking it at my empty 'inbox'.
Toboto's post on the 22nd was spot-on and gave me a much needed chuckle at the time.

If you haven't seen it yet, check out

Listen to Live Air Traffic Control Communications | LiveATC.net (http://www.liveatc.net)

to listen in on Melb or Bris ATC (or anywhere else in the world for that matter) :8

[mmhbtower]

Folks remember its ASA that your dealing with! I got two weeks notice, another guy on my course was notified on friday afternoon for 8am start on monday. another guy was given a course date and then the course was cancelled and the it was nine years to the next available course.
it was a while ago but i dont think things have changed much

[Salinger]

Hi ratc2009,

The ATC center is on Airport Drive, on the left, just before the last roundabout before the domestic terminal. Under the tower ;)

The only public transport that goes out to the airport is the Airtrain, I believe, check out TransLink - your one stop for public transport information (http://www.translink.com.au) for prices and season tickets or something?

Some nice suburbs around that area would be in the Shorncliffe area, on the water, older style houses, but good value especially if you look around. Real Estate, Property, Land and Homes for Sale, lease and rent - realestate.com.au (http://www.realestate.com.au) would be your best bet to check that out.

Sorry I couldn't be much help, but something is better than nothing!

Good luck!

[gemmy]

ratc2009,

Hamilton is another great suburb in Brissy. Really booming now. Will you be working at BNE AsA or have you just applied & looking to do a famil visit?

If working, I'd suggest a car, it's still a fair walk to the AsA facilities from the train stop, especially if it's raining!!

[1208PUNK]

god it appears every1 is in the same boat with regards to ATC and what is happening with their individual applications! the more i read on here the more apprehensive i am becoming with regards to all this ATC...like many of the stories i have read i started this application a long time ago when i first was granted australian residency. thankfully i passed each stage so am on the order of merit but every stage i was always left with questions and queries which resulted in me continuously pestering them with emails about what exactly was going on because i certainly did not have a clue. i was told referees were goin to be checked months ago, then nothing happened. then only once placed on order of merit was told they would be contacted and to await further contact. TO BE HONEST I DO NOT HAVE A CLUE WHAT IS GOING ON WITH ALL THIS AND FEEL THAT BECAUSE I AM IRISH IM AT A HUGE DISADVANTAGE AND PROBABLY LURKING AT THE BOTTOM OF THE ORDER OF MERIT (Hope not).....i am sitting here back in cold ireland with my life on hold not knowing whether i will get an offer or not for this or should i take the risk and move back out now to settle back in.its obviously a huge decision/risk for me so if anyone can ease the burden by letting me know what my chances are i would be grateful! is there many people who do not get the offer having been on the list? i am desperate to pursue this in my life so it would be pretty soul destroying to not be offered a place in the college

[mrtwister]

Apparently the lists for the courses are done and they are awaiting sign-off from the Government. It's expected that those that will be offered a spot in this years' courses will be contacted by the end of this month. There are 3 courses booked in for the remainder of this year (8 in each course) and they have penciled in some more for early next year although they haven't been signed off on yet. The waiting continues but it seems to be finally nearing a result.

Hang in there all :ugh:

[gemmy]

1208PUNK...

Everyone is in the same boat as you. A lot of us have put our lives on hold & sacrificed things.
I returned to Australia & left a great job overseas to focus on my application. It's the risk you take to achieve what you really want in life. No amount of worrying/stressing/emailing HR, will speed things up!

Patience is one thing i've learnt to have since applying a year ago!! If we are on the order of merit list & don't get a spot on course, we only have ourselves to blame, ie, not achieving high enough scores in the testing/interviewing!

Hang in there :ugh:

[Carambar]

Hi guys,

I have recently applied for the 2010 ATC Traineeship and completed the online cognitive test about two weeks ago. I eventually received an email inviting me for a full day of psychometric testing. Just wondering if anyone could share some details on how the tests are run, time limits and scores required in order to proceed to the interview stage.

Cheers
Carambar :ok:

[Toboto]

Hallo Caramba and good luck with you future endevours, if you go to the start of this forum and have a good read you'll have all the information you need regarding everything to do with the ATC application including the pscyhometric testing.

[mrtwister]

Best advice I could give you Carambar is:

1) Make sure your Maths/rate conversions/shortcuts are tip top.

2) Find a good ATC simulator and practice.

3) Accept the fact that you can't really train for it so, you either have 'it' or you don't.

ASA kept their hand close to their chest on the scores required to advance. That is they didn't tell us a thing. All they said was that you had to pass every test which helped in now way at all as we had no idea what a pass was. You don't get your scores even if you get through.

I'm not sure what part of the recruitment phase I would consider the hardest. Probably the Psych Testing, only because I had absolutely zero idea what to expect.

Good luck.:ok:

[Carambar]

Thanks for the feedback and the various PMs. I appreciate your help.

From what I've been reading on this thread, the application process seems to be a bit of a waiting game. With some PPruNers applying in mid '08 and being tested in mid '09? Does anyone know what the start date is for the '10 course?

Either way, I'll be sure to report on how I 'think' I went after the session. In the meantime, I'll be practicing my ATC skills with this (http://www.appvee.com/t/atc-4) ! :)

[Toboto]

Hey for all you serious ATC sim guys and gals out there a really good one which i learnt on and is probably more realistic, is this website check it out

ATC-SIM: a web-based air traffic control simulator (http://www.atc-sim.com/)

Once you learn the commands its really great have fun!!!!

[mrtwister]

I had found this one a couple of days before the Psych Testing and I found it very helpful. I actually found it quite similar to the testing one.

Play Air Traffic Controller a Free Game at Fupa Games (http://www.fupa.com/game/...flash-games/air-traffic-controller_v6.html)

[YankATC]

Its worth the wait, although my circumstances are different. I have been a controller for a long time and am going to Sydney TCU. College for 7 weeks then Sydney.

Good Luck to everyone!

[jrbridge]

At the moment, the conversion courses seem to be about 18 weeks. We have a few USA controllers on conversion at the moment, one has been there since November. Not sure if you would knock it off in 7 weeks.

[melbATC]

En-route conversion courses are in the area of 18-20 weeks, however TMA conversions are generally much shorter as they are not required to complete the 2 non-radar sim modules, so 7 weeks is quite possible.

[YankATC]

Actually the 7 weeks is what I am scheduled for and ASA thinks its the right amount of time (although I think its too long :) ). I've been doing almost the exact same thing in the US as I will be doing in Sydney.

[mrtwister]

Hey YankATC,

Did you move here for the job or did you move here for other reasons and want to continue working as an ATC?

What are you doing in Sydney - tower or approach?

Sorry - just curious :O

[YankATC]

No worries :)

I am doing approach and I am moving for the job as I love it and moving because we love Australia. Its a win win for us.

[enemyMiG]

Hi all

I've heard that recently, due to a lack of instructors, accepted students have been offered blip-pilot roles for a few months prior to commencing the course proper.
Is this still the case?

[melbATC]

not at the moment, as far as I am aware the last course this happened to started about 12 months ago.

[enemyMiG]

Thanks melbATC

Just trying to get a feel for what to expect.
I'm currently a tradie, so this'll be a M A S S I V E career change if it all pans out!

:ok: