Airservices Australia Psychometric Testing

[stevep64]

Alatron,
It's pretty much a case of you'll go where you're needed and, at the moment, that seems to be Bankstown or Sydney airports. You won't be sent anywhere quiet, like Tasmania, Hamilton Island, Coffs, or Alice, because you'll never get rated and besides, all the guys coming up for retirement want to finish up at places like that, well, except Alice maybe.
I'm pretty sure the last two or three courses didn't get a say in where they went.

[jcr737]

Morning Alatron,

Check out the link, Canberra Youth Hostel is $39.00 a night on Dec. 11th. If you just want to get up in the morning & s**t, shower & shave, perfect. It is located within a 5 minute walk of the Airservices building. I noticed that tobz92_ymen wrote that the assessment is at the CASA building?? Thought you would do the assessment at ASA, but who knows what mysterious plans they have:

Wotif.com: Canberra hotels, accommodation, motels, serviced apartments, B&B - Online hotel bookings with instant confirmation - select your hotel at Wotif.com (http://www.wotif.com/search/Advanced?region=12&page=2)

Or stay at the Airport International Motel at Queanbeyan next door in NSW. $99.00 per night, still cheap by Canberra standards. 7 mins from the airport & 15 mins from beautiful downtown Canberra. No buses though, need to grab a taxi.

jcr 737

[SpankyRooster]

Alatron,

Not to contradict Steve too much but, one tower course recently of 3 each got exactly where they wanted... 1 of mine did and from what I recall pretty much at least 1 from each course while I was at the academy got where they preferred.

This being said, you are agreeing to go wherever Airservices prefer when you accept their offer of employment.

There are many hurdles in your way before you have to worry too much about it. Working in Adelaide could be more of a long term plan rather than settting out for it initially,

Good Luck!

Spanks

[kiwi chick]

Just one small correction, you don't have to be an Australian citizen to get in.

I'm not, nor are the other two kiwis on my course ;)

So if you're from over the ditch, you're OK too.

[acpulse]

Hello to all. First post, hopefully of many. I submitted my application roughly 10 days ago and received an email asking me to complete the online assessment 2 days ago.
The deadline for me to complete it by is the 2nd of December.

Just a quick question. How much time should I put aside for this online test? Is there a commonly established time limit (estimate even)?

I'd just like to know so I can organise a quiet time where I can't be distracted.

Thanks in advance, Andrew.

[alatron]

jcr – thanks for the suggestions, I'd seen the hostel but I'm not too keen on shared accom the night before the assessment :) But they also have private doubles for $99 and if it's close by then it might be just the ticket.

The assessment is at the Alan Woods Building which I believe is the airservices hq?

Spanks and Steve – Thanks for the info, even if it's conflicting ;)

[mrfancypants]

Saying
"You won't be sent anywhere quiet, like Tasmania, Hamilton Island, Coffs, or Alice, because you'll never get rated and besides, all the guys coming up for retirement want to finish up at places like that, well, except Alice maybe"
is totally wrong.
People have been consistently sent to GAAP and outstation and regional as first posting for over the last 10 years.
And what logic is it that you wouldnt get a rating at a quiet airport?? People have been sent first off to all of those stations recently, and rated at them. They provide a much better experience base than people who go to one place(cap city) and just sit there forever with no varied experience.

Sydney has traditionally received the least number of abinitio's(not including bankstown), but I guess as they are getting really really short there is a chance.
Chances are you will just go where there is a need, be it Alice Springs, Tasmania or North QLD.
Whether or not you get a say in where you go.............the best example is a couple a while ago who said "we dont care where we go, as long as its together"..1 to cairns, 1 to Perth. That is true!

[Hempy]

Backing up FlashDacks on this one. Procedural Tower should be any trainees preference if they actually want to become well rounded, fully competent ATCs. You are not under the pump the whole time but you are fed a full range of scenarios and meet and are engaged with real flying people. Apart from the life experience, the professional experience will give you the ability to go wherever you want to go AND GET RATED with relative comfort.

[jcr737]

Hi Kiwi chick,

Of course, my apologies.:ouch: Our Kiwi cousins are like family, always welcome. Was thinking of people from over the seas and far away.

jcr

[canadiangal75]

Come on JCR.. I was sure you knew that I was not a citizen and definitely not a Kiwi! All you need is permanent residency.. or be a Kiwi :ooh:

But then again, I didn't make the cut either... Must be because they were worried I'd distract the male controllers with my good looks and the male pilots with my hot Canadian accent :)

[alatron]

I lived in Canada for 3 years and I can tell you for sure that the Canadian accent is, in fact, damn hot.

[hawaii808]

Jcr737
Thanks for the info. In the US 31years is the cut off. I saw they had a bid out for international controllers, you guys must be hurting with staffing!

[WhichWayIsNorth]

Has anyone who applied for the experienced controller position that was previously advertised heard anything yet?

[skyfall78]

im one of the applicant buddy, but till now no progress. they told me to wait an email notification online skill test. :confused:

[mgarnal2]

I also applied for the role for experienced ATCOs in Perth and Sydney and so far no news at all...

[hawaii808]

Me too.....anybody know the pay for perth and sydney?

[WhichWayIsNorth]

Hi hawaii808. Air traffic controller | Airservices (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/careers/air-traffic-controller/) follow this link , at the bottom of the page is the 2009-2012 collective agreemen which has the pay scale in . If I may ask did you apply for an Approach or Tower position?

[sunnySA]

Applications closed on 18-October, I understand that a Recognition of Prior Learning/Training Needs Analysis have commenced for the first batch of applications that have been reviewed.

Salaries effective from Saturday 1-December
http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr100/Spearfelt/Screenshoteditedahahahah.png
* = current salaries plus 2.6%
SY TTCU really means Level 10 but only available to Sydney Tower & Sydney TCU staff (after they reaching level 9 in the pay scale).**
UTS means Unit Tower Supervisor (Metro D Towers (eg Bankstown, Jandakot), Regional D Towers (eg Alice Springs, Broome)
CSS / SS means Check Controller / System Supervisor
SY CSS/Supervisor means Check Controller / Supervisor but only available to Sydney Tower & Sydney TCU staff.

** Level 1 on rating then annual increments (subject to certain criteria being met).

There is a separate agreement for ATC Line Managers, current minimum of $160,000 but this agreement is under review/negotiation.

you guys must be hurting with staffing
Yes, need experienced staff for Sydney and Perth, other locations are getting staff through the ab-initio program (about 12 months college, about 4 months on the job).

[WhichWayIsNorth]

Thanks for the updated info sunnySA. I applied for Sydney TWR, hoping to get some feedback soon. Do you have any knowledge on how successful the recruitment was in terms of number of applicants?

[Tango7]

Anyone know anything about the Movement Monitor positions currently being advertised? Never heard of this position before. Is it a newly created position?

Thanks

Tango7

[hawaii808]

Whichway
i applied for approach. The pay scale, does that mean at sydney you start out at 180 grand?
Thanks

[WhichWayIsNorth]

As far as I see it, No. As sunnySA said the SY TTCU is basically level 10, IE. 10 years experience but only for people at Sydney, other stations max out at level 9. we have a scale that works in a similar way here, each level is basically a year of experience, if you have 5years experience I would imagine/hope ASA would start you on level 5 etc.

[sunnySA]

Anyone know anything about the Movement Monitor positions currently being advertised? Never heard of this position before. Is it a newly created position?
Movement Monitor positions are new and count aircraft movements to ensure that the current maximum of 80 movements per hour is not breached.

if you have 5years experience I would imagine/hope ASA would start you on level 5 etc
5years experience may directly translate to level 5, it could be a lower figure eg 5-7 years experience might translate to level 5. Often it is level X whilst training and then level X+1 once fully rated.

[skyfall78]

hi sunnySA, do you have any perquisite than base salary?

[Hempy]

History suggests that previous international recruits have not all been successful (anecdotally ~60% pass...I hear that a while ago one US ex-regional tower controller was expected to rate on procedural enroute...)

My point being, have a backup plan. If you are a current ATC, don't burn your bridges, and if you don't have very recent experience I'd say you are probably unlikely to be offered employment anyway.

Just saying, :-)

[sunnySA]

History suggests that previous international recruits have not all been successful (anecdotally ~60% pass...I hear that a while ago one US ex-regional tower controller was expected to rate on procedural enroute...)
Hopefully consigned to history, the SY & PH positions are TMA (and TWR) specific. I seriously doubt someone being offered employment if
a/ the haven't worked TMA in a busy environment (Eurocat experience would be highly regarded);
b/ RPL/TNA identifies any issues (doubt exists about the ability of a person to rate) as wasting a training slot would be very wasteful (and very hard on the individual, messy from a HR point of view).
History does indicate that recruitments take much longer than most people think. No news is no news, 26 sleeps to christmas, then there is the Xmas/New Year holiday season!!

My point being, have a backup plan. If you are a current ATC, don't burn your bridges
Good advice.

[WhichWayIsNorth]

If i am accepted and things go sour unfortunetly i wont be accepted back to my current employer. My ANSP is currently refusing to accept ex employees back from the UAE, i suppose to try intimidate people into not leaving:ugh:. Does anyone know what the training is for experienced controllers, at the college specifically? Is it just a short conversion course, how do assessments work with regards to reassessments and failures, is it one chance,fail and your gone?

[stevep64]

History suggests that previous international recruits have not all been successful

One of the tower blippies at the academy is an ex-approach controller from Taipei, who's English wasn't up to scratch after she did the conversion course. She's a great blippy, and I reckon there's nothing wrong with her English now, but it's a perfect example of a backup plan.

[skyfall78]

hi steve, are you work in brisbane center? :)

[phildan89]

I'm another one of the applicants for SY tower, have completed the Recognition of Prior Learning/Training Needs Analysis tests about a week ago. Still no news, although the email I received when they sent the links out mentioned they would get in touch during the first week of December.

In saying that, a mate of mine who also applied finished the testing last night, and has already got a reply from them (!!) advising that the next stage is the phone interview and to organise a time. So who knows, I'm just gonna sit tight until the end of next week for now.

My application is still showing "Application under review." I guess that's better than being unsuccessful huh

[stevep64]

Skyfall,
No I was a trainee at the academy in Melbourne. I've applied for a blippy job in Brisbane, but I'm still waiting to hear something from them.

[skyfall78]

phildan89,
how's the test mate? it's great you've been 2 steps ahead.

[ManofBurger]

Hi Guys,

I thought I would provide some feedback on my application so far.

I applied for the ATC trainee program in early november. I did my online psychometric testing (which included numeracy and literacy questions) about 4 days ago. Some questions were quite hard as you didn't have alot of time to think about things.

Today I have received an email requesting me to organise a time for a phone interview.

I have read in previous posts that the testing process can take months, what is the next step after the phone interview? and approximately how long to go until an offer to train in melbourne is made? (provided I'm successful).

Cheers
Burgerman

[WhichWayIsNorth]

Wow phildan, you guys are lucky. I haven't heard anything after the initial application. Online it still says "Application Received". I'm hoping it's because you guys are from New Zealand and wouldn't need sponsored visas etc that you are processed first and they are still getting to us.

[phildan89]

The testing was pretty full on-I felt I went OK at all of it except the calculation one (it was the last one I did). I aced the practice test part, went into the actual test, and there were some doozies! I think I've done enough though so here's hoping!!

WhichWayIsNorth-how long ago did you apply?? I put my application in as soon as the advertisement came out so whether that made any difference I don't know??

Gaaah I just want to know! I actually went up SY tower at the end of August for half a day to get an idea of how it works...I want that job something wicked!

[WhichWayIsNorth]

I applied on the 8th about 10days before applications closed. I know how you feel, i wish i had some sort of reply even if its to say my application was unsuccessful because then i at least know where i stand. Im hoping to hear something on Monday. I think you guys from NZ might have a leg up over other international candidates, good luck either way.

[phildan89]

Cheers mate, you too!

[Nookie2nite]

Has anyone eva received a notification of a failure of the online testing?

[WhichWayIsNorth]

I take it you applied for the position for experienced ATC's Nookie2Nite? Have you done the online testing already?

[Nookie2nite]

Yeah I have - passed - now waiting.....

Do u know how they would select say 10 from 100 experienced? Is it cv, online, interview, or a combination?

[WhichWayIsNorth]

Not sure but i would imagine a combination of all 3. It looks like they are processing applications in batches according to date of application. When did you apply if i may ask?

[sunnySA]

Is it cv, online, interview, or a combination
Step1: CV - pass/fail, if pass then
Step2: Online pass/fail, if pass then
Step3: Interview, if pass then perhaps, subject to reference checks, security checks, medical checks, police checks.

History indicates that recruitments take much longer than most people think. Patience is a ......

[WhichWayIsNorth]

sunnySA. Do you think its a bad sign that some of us haven't heard anything whereas others have already completed online testing? I did apply late in the application process so im hoping they are attending to applications in the order they came in? Hopefully we aren't disadvantaged by the time we applied, i only applied on 08 November whereas applications opened 05 October.

[sunnySA]

Do you think its a bad sign that some of us haven't heard anything whereas others have already completed online testing?
Not necessarily but can't say for sure, processed in batches - probably, insufficient resources allocated to task - possibly, more applicants than estimated - unlikely.

Properly done RPL/TNA processes take much longer than most people think.
Properly done interviews take a while to arrange, (time zones), do and write up.

I think you need to ask yourself - how well did you meet the selection criteria?
Very well? then you shouldn't worry.
Well? then a little worried.
Not so well? then more worried etc.

For Sydney TCU.
Worked high capacity environment?
Worked parallel runways?
Worked Eurocat?
Then I wouldn't been too worried.

Worked ENR non-radar, remote Tower, small TCU. Only got your rating this year or been rated for 35 years?
Then I'd be worried (sorry).

From an organisations' point of view, better to do the recruitment process correctly vs rush it and get it wrong. Bad for the individual, bad for the system, bad PR/IR.

Recruitments take significantly longer than most applicants think...

[skyfall78]

my opinion they processed the application based on date application received, cause i submitted my application on closing date actually.

eg; whichwayisnorth submitted early november and till now no news

so conclusion is (maybe) based on date :)

hope it work guys

cheers to you all. :)

[waxo]

Hallo to all! I submitted my online application 4 weeks ago and got a mail with the invite to complete the online tests before Nov 22. I think i got that mail about 10 days before the deadline for the online applications. so now im waiting! must say im on edge! Im convinced i plugged some of the tests though. So maybe thats why im still waiting!!! Good luck to all...:ok:

[topdrop]

Ruth,
If application is for a Tower job, the training will be in Melbourne as that is where the Tower sim is.

[Fatty182]

As far as I know, they're not planning another Brisbane course for a while, as there are two running currently, and that's the maximum they can have. Probably 4-6 months at least? That's if they keep pushing them through up here.

[Fifi-J]

Ruth - there are 2 courses running in brissie at the moment which is the maximum they can facilitate. One course is expected to finish (I think) around May/june-ish? The second course is estimated to finish around september. But those dates are not locked in and certain things can delay the completion dates. So if you were hoping for a brissie start you can expect to wait till at least mid next year I would think!

[1Charlie]

For those waiting to hear about their conversion courses. You'll just have to be patient. It took me 8 months between application to commencement of training for an experienced ATC position. You'll be offered a salary table which isn't the same as in the collective agreement. Less than 6 years experience expect field trainee rate while in Melbourne college, level 1 in field training, and between 2 and 4 once rated. Less than 10 years expect levels 1, 3, and 5.
Depending on your training needs analysis the RADAR tower course (SY BN ML etc) is about 9 weeks long. About 3 weeks of theory (SAR, IFER, etc), about 5 weeks of simulator training, and 1 week of MET. In Sydney you normally start your OJT on SMC west ADC east and delivery. BN now start trainees on ADC as SMC has become much more complex recently.

By the way don't assume this is set in stone, it's only based on experience.

[phildan89]

Thanks for that 1Charlie!

One question out of that though. When you say that "you'll be offered a salary table which isn't the same as in the collective agreement" what table do they use?? Is there anywhere online we can see it?

[1Charlie]

It's the same table, but expect them not to offer you your equivalent step based on your experience. Eg step 5 for 5 years experience. It's not published anywhere but they'll probably send you this in their offer of employment

[kiwi chick]

Hey Ruth.

No, you won't get paid removal expenses. What you will get paid is either airfares for your and your dependants; or an equivalent surface fare if you're driving.

You will get put up in accommodation for one week while you look for somewhere to live. After that, you're on your own.

Unless it changes between now and when you start. Which I wouldn't imagine it will :E

Also, although you may have applied for enroute, you might only get offered tower. Some of us got a choice, some didn't apparently. :\

[stevep64]

Also, although you may have applied for enroute, you might only get offered tower. Some of us got a choice, some didn't apparently.

I didn't get offered tower, I just told them I'd changed my mind after doing a famil. If you get through the selection process, just tell them what you want.

As far as the fuel expense is concerned, I was a bit annoyed that they didn't pay for my removals to Melbourne, but I didn't have a complaint about how much they paid for my fuel costs to get there. It was around three times what the fuel actually cost.

[kiwi chick]

Steve, as I said, not everyone gets a choice.

[phildan89]

"Congratulations you have successfully passed the online testing"


The best eight words I have read in a looooong time :)

[skyfall78]

congrats buddy...... i havent heard anything :rolleyes:

[Duane]

has anyone who applied for experienced ATC back in March had a concrete offer yet (on paper etc)

I have had all my interviews etc, offered an in principle spot but nothing on paper yet and no start dates.

[2b2]

although you may have applied for enroute, you might only get offered tower

"only" offered tower!!

only if you are lucky! :)

[kiwi chick]

Haha, sorry 2b2 - no offence intended! :ok:

I wanted to do tower, I was offered it, it was my choice my a country mile... but because I have three children and need a stable base for a while, I "settled" for Enroute.

*wipes nose* :E

[Jack Ranga]

Tower, ops on a stick!

[waxo]

Skyfall78 have you done the online testing yet?

[skyfall78]

waxo
i havent do anything buddy....what about you? my application submitted last day of advertise closed. somi have to wait much looooonger than you guys :ugh:

[waxo]

Application unsuccessful. Must say I'm bitterly disappointed. But that's how it goes. I know of a couple of other guys with the same outcome. What is strange is that not everyone has been given to do the online tests yet. Some guys like me did them but failed. Others like you are waiting still. I wonder how they work it! Anyways best of luck hope you get a response soon.

[waxo]

Skyfall78
Unfortunately I didn't get it. Got told I failed online. I know of a couple other who got told same thing. What is a little strange is that guys who submitted late have not even been asked to do online. But who knows how they work it. I suppose it's done in batches. Hope you hear soon!

[WhichWayIsNorth]

Waxo.
Sorry to hear it. Im one of the people who has yet to do the online testing. On Monday my application status online changed from "Application Received" to "Application under review" but I havent received any communication or invites for online testing.

[polair911]

Hi all,

I just got my official feedback from ASA, apparently I just missed out (it was the sim that let me down), good news is though, they recommanded me to apply for this Procedure Designer pos in the ACT, when I was initially rejected.

My advice is, if you really enjoy aviation and wanna work for ASA, why not apply for other pos within the organisation. I personally felt that it was a good experience to deal with them, even though I didn't make it for ATC.

Good luck to all!!:ok:

PA911

[canadiangal75]

I'm still waiting to get my feedback :( Been waiting since October...How long after your negative did you get your feedback polair?

[anita82]

I also failed the assessment centre, they sent me the negative feedback in 2 weeks time. Well, I might try again next year if I still feel like it and at least I'll know what the tests are like.

Good luck people!

[polair911]

Got my feedback about a month after my assessment center. If you're keen on your feedback, just give them a call, most likely they're gonna get back to you. :ok:

[canadiangal75]

I might call them.. Sent them a follow up email.. thought that would be enough... It's all about being patient and waiting I guess.

[VH-ALX]

Hi all,
Finally submitted my application two days ago and today got an email invitation for the online testing that has to be completed prior to the 20th. This is probably one of the most asked questions here, but can anyone advise of what to expect by way of questions, subjects etc.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[kiwi chick]

It is one of the most asked questions here - therefore, if you go back through this thread you'll find all the answers you need. :hmm:

[Pauloswindon]

WhichWayIsNorth or any other Experienced Air Traffic Controller applicants for Sydney and Perth.

I know that the majority of applications sumbitted near the deadline went under review around the 6th of December. I was just wondering if anyone falling into this category had received any contact from AirServices since.

Thanks!

[WhichWayIsNorth]

No haven't heard anything further yet. Application status changed online to "Application under review" on the 3rd but haven't had any communication. Are you also awaiting a reply from ASA?

[missy]

With a Xmas/New Year break approaching then applicants for SYD and PER shouldn't expect to hear anything until at least the 8th January at the very earliest, most likely 14th January. Its just the way it is...

[skyfall78]

kinda like that.....everybody left for holiday :rolleyes:

[VH-ALX]

Can anyone tell me the duration of the initial online assessment test? I plan to do it tonight as completion is required by the 20th.

[phildan89]

I'm still all go with the experienced ATC position stuff; my interview is in two hours!!

VH-ALX you could probably bash out the online testing in 2.5-3 hours if you went for it, but I slowed it down and had a break between each test to "try" and stay as fresh as possible-ended up taking half a day on it.

[VH-ALX]

Thanks Phildan,
I appreciate your reply. . . . Did u find it difficult? Anyway best of luck for your interview . . I hope you progress yo the next stage.

[phildan89]

Didn't find it too bad-personally found the calculation one at the end the hardest. I got into a nasty habit at one point of working out the answer, typing it in and then running out of time so I couldn't hit submit! Ahhh well.

Cheers, should be good fun. Don't have a clue what they're going to ask so here's hoping.

Are you applying for the experienced positions or an ab-initio one??

[VH-ALX]

I am applying for ab-initio

[canadiangal75]

will finally get my feedback 4 months after my assessment centre.. Oh well, better late than never... Am almost at the 12 month deadline to reapply if the 12 months is when you initially applied that is... haha. Do I dare torture myself again? Will have to see what the feedback is I guess :)

[kiwi chick]

I think that's a good idea to wait, Canadiangal... it may or may not be something you can change or improve on.

And if it IS something you can change - forewarned is forearmed! :ok:

VH-ALX - have you done the texts yet? Unsure if it's changed, but when I did them, taking a break inbetween was not an option ;) It was pretty full-on. Good luck!

[VH-ALX]

Doing the tests this morning Kiwi, will post when I have completed them. I was cramming some numerical problems prior so that at least all the equations are clear before I attempt them.

[kiwi chick]

Haha, I'd like to see your thoughts on that once you've done the test - and make sure you have a calculator!! I didn't and it made for some very interesting times, interspersed with quite a few swearwords. :}

[canadiangal75]

The funny thing is Kiwichick, somehow I managed to be able to get in and do a job that is quite similar in Canada... air traffic services, flight service specialist... same selection process as Air traffic controllers etc.. And I was very good at my job :) But somehow, I managed to screw up at the assessment centre in Australia! :) Will see what they say.. I have my money on the spatial reasoning test.. Computer was a bit glitchy during that one.. They experienced computer problems all day during our assessment...

[skyfall78]

just received this email :

Thank you for your interest in a position as an Experience Air Traffic Controller with Airservices.

We have received a very high number of applications and are still in the process of assessing and shortlisting the applications to determine those who will progress to the next stages.

Our office is closed from 5pm Friday 21 December for the holiday season. Our office will reopen on Monday 14 January and we anticipate that we will be in contact soon afterwards.

We appreicate your patience during this time.

We wish you a safe and happy holiday and new Years season.

Kind regards


Kind Regards, National Recruitment Team Airservices Australia


i should be more patience For the best result :)

[stevep64]

It'd be nice if those of us going for blippy jobs got the same kind of email. :ugh:

[WhichWayIsNorth]

Skyfall, i got the same email this morning, at least now i dont have to keep checking my online status everyday. Hopefully we get some good news soon after 14 January

[canadiangal75]

totally agree Steve64.. nothing yet on the sim support officer job, eh? I'm still waiting too...At this rate, I'll probably already have another job before they even tell me if I scored an interview or not... Oh well... it's all a big waiting game :)

[VH-ALX]

Kiwi chick

Have completed the online tests today. I heeded your advice and had a calculator at the ready. It would have been tough without it. I am glad they are over and it was a relief to answer the final question and see the message on screen . . . . Assessment complete!

All that is left to do is wait.

[Pauloswindon]

WhichWayIsNorth I am applying for the experienced controller positions. I am yet to receive the Xmas e-mail (maybe i'm out because i'm a POM). I thought you might be out after South Africa beat Australia in the cricket :-)
Does your application still say under review?

Anyway lets all enjoy Xmas and recommence in the New Year :-)

[WhichWayIsNorth]

Haha, i also thought after the cricket they might just lose my application. Yes still says ''Application under review'' online but some peoples applications who applied very late near cutoff are still saying ''Application received''

[phildan89]

I had my interview for the experienced controller positions the other day and they shed some light as to why it might be taking people a while to hear back-they've had over 200 applicants! Somehow I don't think they were expecting that many...

On that note as well, apparently I'm one of the younger ones that have applied and it seemed from what they were saying they're after people with more experience. :{ Ah well, I guess I'll find out in the new year!


Have a good christmas folks!!

[VH-ALX]

Unsuccessful on the online test ....... Disappointed yes, but try again this time next year. Best of luck to all in whatever stage you may be at ...... Happy Xmas to all.

[stevep64]

Just got the email to say I was unsuccessful for the SSO job. I didn't fit the selection criteria apparently.

[craigieburn]

Steve, I am not surprised at all by that. The blippies seem in some way to be like the docks of old, that is, there is no way that you will get a start unless you know/ are related to someone.
Seriously, how can they tell you that you don't fit the selection criteria to be a blippie, yet you fitted the selection criteria to be trained as an ATC?
One of the 2 criteria is clearly wrong.

[jcr737]

Hi Steve,

Me too. Didn't meet the criteria. HUH??? Aviation experience..check, work well in a small team..check, committed..check, proactive..check, communications skills..check, solution-focused..check. WTF??:ugh:

Friends in Airservices..:(

Merry Christmas to all.

[kiwi chick]

Hey jcr737, steve64, canadiangal75... Dare I add my two cents worth? :bored:

Yes, OK, I will. :\

Firstly, Steve64 sorry to hear you didn't get it :{

We blip, as well as learn how to be controllers. The blipping side - at this stage of training - is almost as hard as the controlling side.

My aviation experience only helps with the phraseology. That's it.

The rest is as much manipulating a computer with a fairly modern software package as well as doing the "three-dimensional" or "spatial" thinking that they look for in controllers. Perhaps, if this was an area of your weakness, this might be why you weren't successful?


Canadiangal75 obviously I can't answer without seeing your feedback - and I don't for one moment profess to be an expert - but from my experience (living with an Air Traffic Controller for three years) there's quite a step up from Flight Data/Flight Service.

Flight Data/Service is the phase we're on at the moment, after three months of training. Once we get rated to do that, we still have another nine months of training to be controllers.

I guess my advice would be to find out where your weaknesses were, make them your strengths if you can, then give it everything you've got next time :) :ok:

Craigieburn, not so - I think you'll find a fair majority of the SSOs are ex trainees.

[jcr737]

Hi kiwichick,

Thanks you for your descriptive post re the SSO (blip) role. One question though, we received an email informing us of the outcome, other than a vague reference to not meeting the criteria for the role no other information was given, so where is it that we failed?

We cannot strengthen our supposed weakness without knowing what it may be. We did not get an interview, do any sort of test, receive feedback or any pointers to future endeavours. We applied wholeheartedly, believed we met the stated criteria and now are left wondering just what our perceived weakness is. As for Steve he is an ex-trainee. :confused:

As for feedback I attended an assessment day for trainee ATC in Brisbane on September 10th, was unsuccessful as I posted here back in November, am still waiting on the requested feedback.

I know you cannot answer for Airservices, just getting disappointment, again, off my chest. Good luck with your further training.

[canadiangal75]

thanks for your input kiwichick... I'm not sure you know what a flight service specialist actually does in Canada... My training definitely was not only 3 months long. I sat in a tower and did vehicle control service, relayed clearances, issued advisory service...basically ask the pilot rather then tell him what to do, and you know what? that can be quite difficult when they decide they are going to not follow your instructions... Also do all weather obeservations, issue notams, deal with emergencies etc....Yes I realize it's not exactly the same, but, it is a little more similar than say someone who works in a telstra call centre, wouldn't you say?

Anyway, I haven't gotten the negative email for SSO as of yet, but expecting it shortly as my application now says application outcome.

[stevep64]

it is a little more similar than say someone who works in a telstra call centre, wouldn't you say?

Haha! That's what I used to do :p

[Duane]

Well to give you guys some idea, as far as I know, they only have 2 people in HR for controllers applying, 1 works part time and does experienced ATC's and the other person works full time and does ab initio.

As you can no doubt tell from the length of this thread, there are a lot of applicants, and not many people to process them. I myself applied Waaaaaay back in march, and only this week did I receive my formal offer (signed etc) thats a lot of time to screen, vet and assess someone that is already doing the job, but as I said there are only 2 people doing the job, and given they get somewhere in the vacinity of 4000 or so apps a year, testing interviews and finalising of contracts, job offers, travel and general liasing....well you can imagine that the HR ladies have their work cut out for them.

@kiwichick there is so much difference between flight data and controlling. previous aviation experience will help you immensely. knowledge of general aviation procedures, documents such as AIP, knowing acronyms etc just gives you that much more breathing room when you are learning to control, and people without that knowledge will struggle whilst learning what you already know, and at the same time trying to learn how to control at the same time.

[kiwi chick]

@kiwichick there is so much difference between flight data and controlling

Duane, that is exactly the point I was making... I was referring to my aviation knowledge not helping with the SSO job, not in my position as a trainee controller :ok:

Canadiangal, everything you described is what they used to do in NZ, and is what we're doing at the moment. To the best of my knowledge, when we finish this module in a couple of weeks we will be rated as (equivalent) Flight Data/Flight Information officers and could technically go out and work in Class G airspace (as you said - asking the pilot instead of telling him). I didn't intend to offend you - if I have, I apologise.

jcr737, indeed, I definitely cannot answer for AirServices - I'm only trying to give some constructive advice from my point as a trainee. I understand your frustrations with not getting feedback, and I guess if I was in the same situation I'd keep asking until I got answers.

As Duane said, I understand they are very very busy with over 4,000 applicants per year. I don't envy them one bit :bored:

[le Pingouin]

I suspect the Class G part leaves the trainees rather "underdone" because it's one area they consistently struggle with. But then I may not be a totally unbiased observer as I'm ex-flight service.

Way back when, the flight service course was six months and covered pretty much what canadiangal mentioned. These days it doesn't need to cover a lot of the stuff that's not specifically traffic related, but I think those extras provided more rounded training - better able to cope with the weird stuff you inevitably get in G. It built a broader base.

[Hempy]

Pingouin....don't get me started!!

[canadiangal75]

I accept your apology kiwichick.. you may not realize it, but you are still a trainee and have a lot to learn. Even when you will get licenced... Going off babbling saying you can do what someone else took 1 year of training to do within 3 months is extremely rude and disrespectful. especially when you have never done the actual job yourself.

As Le Pingouin said, and thank you very much for backing me up on this, your training is designed for air traffic controller, not FSS. Even if you think FSS are not worthy of anything, the work they do is a whole different challenge to being a controller.. You certainly get a lot of strange things in the job. Just the fact that you cannot tell the pilot what to do makes it a huge challenge. As a controller, you have a plan and you make it happen.. As a FSS, you have a plan and have to constantly change it as some pilots do not wish to land on the same runway as everyone else, they don't care about the 6 aircraft landing on runway 26, they want to land on runway 08!

Next time, think before giving your 2 cents, ok?

As for my feedback, I was on JCR's assessment day on September 10th in Brisbane and have yet to receive it. So I understand his frustration as I am in the same boat.

Just remember, just because you made it to the academy, does not guarantee a licence. So understand a lot of hard work is required.

Good luck everyone, no matter what stage you are at, and I think most of us agree that HR have a difficult task with the selection process because as the track record has proved, they are wrong about approximately 50% of the trainees they put through. That could mean that they may have been wrong about the ones they didn't put through.

The proof to my final statement is that some people get in the second time around and actually get licenced just as some people who get in the first time, don't get licenced.

[VH-ALX]

Well said Candaiangal. In particular I agree with your HR comment about being wrong 50% of the time. I know that when I reapply next year I will put away thoughts of aviation related mathematics and study the financial times instead to see what company trends from year to year are. ....... :E

[craigieburn]

KiwiChick, you stated:Craigieburn, not so - I think you'll find a fair majority of the SSOs are ex trainees
Maybe that is the case in the College/Academy, but I thought that Steve applied for a job at Brisvegas. I understand that a couple of ab initio courses are being run out of Brisbane, but using the op's room sim.
My comment about the nepotism/cronyism applies more to the operational sim.
In terms of ex-trainees being employed as blippies, I thought that the now departed ex bank manager decreed that no failed trainees were to be employed as blippies?

[itsonlyagame]

Hi Phildan89 , could you give us an idea what the interview was like -- hoping to do mine in the new year
cheers

[stevep64]

In terms of ex-trainees being employed as blippies, I thought that the now departed ex bank manager decreed that no failed trainees were to be employed as blippies?

Hopefully that's not the case now. I certainly wasn't discouraged from applying by the present manager. It was him that made me aware of the jobs coming up.

[canadiangal75]

I had my rejection email for SSO all along.. I guess they send them in batches and it ended up in my junk mail. Heads up I guess, check your junk mail for communications from ASA.. :) Happy holidays to everyone and good luck!

[fujii]

Kiwi chick posted: To the best of my knowledge, when we finish this module in a couple of weeks we will be rated as (equivalent) Flight Data/Flight Information officers and could technically go out and work in Class G airspace (as you said - asking the pilot instead of telling him).

This shows that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. A rating is something you get when you finish field training and you receive your first endorsement. E.g you may have an tower rating but only hold an SMC endorsement. When you leave the academy, you can't "technically go out and work" as anything until you do further training to obtain the endorsement.

In Australia we don't have Flight Data/Flight Information officers. We have Flight Data Coordinators and Air Taffic Controllers. Two very different jobs.

As for SSOs versus ATC selection criteria mentioned by others. Again, two different disciplines. An ATC trainee's exposure to the role of SSO is so limited that the comments in this forum reflect badly on the posters.

[1Charlie]

Kiwi chick. When you finish your DTI course you won't be rated as anything. Don't make the mistake of thinking once you've made it to field training (assuming you do) that you'll have learned all you need to know. I'm not trying to be rude, just a quick reality check :-)

[1Charlie]

Pipped at the post

[Hempy]

I'll also add that it's wrong to assume that HR get it 50% wrong in selection based on the assumption that 50% of trainees fail. Trainees who are selected are simply 'suitable for training', not guaranteed potential rated controllers. Given the very small percentage of the general population that have the spatial reasoning, problem solving and processing speed skills required to make a successful ATC, the fact that HR can give us 5 ATC's for every 10 trainees that start (on the 50% assumption) is a pretty good strike rate tbh.

[Duane]

Yeah, not too sure about the 50% hit rate people are saying is about right but even if it is, there are no tests other than passing the course that HR can give you. All HR are there to do are to test the wider population and fill courses with people who have a good chance of passing. I couldnt tell you after a 30 minute interview your chances of passing ATC course, because I cant test your skills that you will use in air traffic control in an interview, the only way to do that is...you guessed it, try air traffic control.

Anyway, the selection process for RAAF Pilot training is far more arduous and even that has something like an 80% attrition rate, it has such a high attrition rate because the job is hard, like ATC.

Something that you also cant test before training is how you deal with stress. A lot of people say to me when I tell them that I am an air traffic controller "I have heard that is a stressful job" so much that I am sick of it, but I had a think about it...acute stress (stress at the console) is something that people can either deal with well, or they do not. they either make clutch decisions under pressure or they do not, this can be assessed under simulation. What cannot; is dealing with the other stress ATC's deal with; that lingering stress that is there before you start work, and stays there somewhat after work. It is this stress that in my experience that destroys ATC careers, not being able to continue to deal with this stress that ends up getting the best of people. There are no tests for it, it just comes down to the person, some people might start experiencing this type of stress whilst still under training (at the academy) but find under field training, the accumulation of these stresses is too hard to deal with. Once again, this cannot be tested for, quite simply the road needs to be walked by the individual, and HR cannot be held accountable for these particular failures

[stevep64]

As for SSOs versus ATC selection criteria mentioned by others. Again, two different disciplines. An ATC trainee's exposure to the role of SSO is so limited that the comments in this forum reflect badly on the posters.

Actually, I don't remember having to address any selection criteria for the ATC trainee job. I'll wait until I get feedback, but it may well have been a case of my not being very good at addressing the criteria, rather than not fitting the job. Especially since, as Duane said, the HR people are stretched to the limit.

[fujii]

Steve, it was craigieburn.


craigieburn

Join Date: Jun 2011

Seriously, how can they tell you that you don't fit the selection criteria to be a blippie, yet you fitted the selection criteria to be trained as an ATC?
One of the 2 criteria is clearly wrong.

[kiwi chick]

Canadiangal75, yes you are dead right – I am an air traffic control trainee.

I’ve not once pretended or professed to be anything more, anything less. My advice to you was as a) a successful applicant and b) an employee with some limited experience of the SSO job.

I even made a point of stating “and I don't for one moment profess to be an expert”

I’m unsure where your hostility has come from, there was nothing directed as rude or disrespectful in any of my comments. Not once did I see you mention that you trained for a year in your previous job, and irrespective of that it doesn’t change the fact that we are doing similar things in our current stage of training.

(You stated “do a job that is quite similar in Canada... air traffic services, flight service” and “I'm not sure you know what a flight service specialist actually does in Canada...” so to show some respect and confirm my thoughts before commenting further, I looked it up. This was the result:


Provide pre-flight weather briefings after interpreting charts, reports and satellite imagery.
Assist with flight plan filing.
Provide information to help pilots to safely land and take-off from uncontrolled airports.
Stay in contact with pilots during their flights.
Communicate safety updates.
Provide hourly weather reports to Environment Canada forecasters for their predictions.
Trigger search and rescue activities for missing or overdue aircraft.)


Fuji says “In Australia we don't have Flight Data/Flight Information officers” which was why I was very careful to state “(equivalent) Flight Data/Flight Information” referring to the service we are being taught to provide in a faux G Class airspace only.

"This shows that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. A rating is something you get when you finish field training"

When you finish your DTI course you won't be rated as anything

I did not pluck this from my backside ;) and I am under no illusions that I'm not even a quarter of the way through my college training. We were told by an instructor that "technically" at the end of DTI course we could be rated to work a Class G sector - if such a puppy existed.

(1Charlie, I didn't think you were being rude, and I thank you for "checking" :} )

I couldn't agree more with Le pingouin comment “I suspect the Class G part leaves the trainees rather "underdone" “ as I myself would not for one minute be happy being set loose on a Class G sector - and have said as much to my instructors.

And despite the possible mis-interpretation of my comment “Once we get rated to do that, we still have another nine months of training to be controllers” I most certainly do not think that I will come out of college – if I indeed make it all the way through course – thinking that I know everything there is to know.

I have never, and hope to never be, that arrogant. :ok:

Having spent four hours a days, five days a week, for the last six weeks, working with SSO's (Blippies), (which I equate to around 120 hours) - and half of that time actually blipping - I made the executive decidion that it might just be OK to give my opinion of their role. After all, I got my PPL licence with less hours :ok:

Just remember, just because you made it to the academy, does not guarantee a licence. So understand a lot of hard work is required.

Finally, canadiangal75 - I know myself I would be much more disheartened missing out on a job that I was already experienced in, than I would be missing out on a job that was beyond my current skill and experience level.

My advice to you was offered as a genuine attempt in pointing out that to the best of my knowledge there is a fair difference in what you used to do as an FIS officer and what you would have been (or hopefully will be) doing as an Air Traffic Controller.

The intent and history of this thread has been dedicted to current and past applicants and trainees offering advice and information about the application process and initial training at the college.

That's what I am.

A trainee.

I understand the work ahead of me, I know the work I've done behind me, and I now have a tiny smidgeon of an idea of the career that will hopefully be on offer to me.

These are my posts and these are my opinions. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Kiwi Chick :ok:

[skyfall78]

Wishing You guys joy, peace and love this holiday season..... :)


cheers

skyfall78 :ok:

[Plazbot]

The correct term is 'Smelly'.

[VH-ALX]

Santa has to do an IFR renewal prior to his annual present run. He had done the preflight, checked all the reindeer and sleigh and waited for the testing officer to arrive. Upon arrival Santa noticed that the testing officer had his usual kit ... Headphones, clipboard, paperwork etc. There was one extra piece of kit that Santa spotted . . . it was a shotgun. Rather alarmed Santa asked what the shotgun was for . . . . ''This is for our engine out procedure''' replied the testing officer.

An oldie but a goodie

Happy Xmas to all and may next year be kinder to us all.

[kiwi chick]

Thanks skyfall78, VL-ALX, same to you! :ok:

Countdown is ON, woohoo!! :D

[shags_j]

How funny is this entire thread?

:D

[WhisprSYD]

When you finish your DTI course you won't be rated as anything. Don't make the mistake of thinking once you've made it to field training (assuming you do) that you'll have learned all you need to know. I'm not trying to be rude, just a quick reality check :-)

Some decent advice. Having completed my training and rated in the last few months I'd say I learned more in the 3 months of field training than I did in 12 months at the academy, and then probably learned just as much again in the first month being rated..

I actually remember someone saying to me at the academy that after DTI you'd 'technically' be able to operate a class G only sector.. it's bollocks. In the DTI module you basically learn how to assess and pass traffic, have a token effort at providing FIS, and learn enough to pass the DTI exam. You'll learn plenty more in the HMI conversion course (where you can actually interact with flight plans) and then you'll get a shock to the system when you hit live class E/G traffic and you have to deal with airworkers, trainee pilots, random conversations and non scripted requests!

Looking back at it all now it's like the Academy was a 12 month testing process, with bits and pieces of valuable learning. You'll learn the background info, a few techniques, sep standards, and how to apply them which you'll use for the rest of your career... but other than that I think it's all about showing that you're a suitable candidate for field training. Passing your last check and getting out of the academy is an achievement, and as a result I think those who do get given plenty of opportunity to rate in the field, but don't think it's the last hurdle, because it's only the beginning.

Merry Xmas to all applicants and trainees in this thread.. enjoy your break while the rest of us are plugging away at the console

[canadiangal75]

It sure is.. Forums can be quite entertaining... :)

[Hempy]

How funny is this entire thread?
It sure is.. Forums can be quite entertaining... http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gifThere's a little bit of humour, but I wouldn't call the whole thread either 'funny' or 'entertaining' (each to their own though I suppose). 'Informative' would probably the adjective I'd choose....with a little bit of 'bitter' and 'arrogant' thrown in on the side.

Merry Christmas!

[INTERNATIONALATCO]

Pyscometric question:

Do you fart?

When do you fart?

why do you fart?

have you ever farted?

with whom have you ever farted?

Do you like farting?

Do Farts smell?

Do your farts smell?

Do you like farting?

LOL, making me self LMAO......... Hmmmm, I think this one will block my account... anyway.... it's a very basics of loony testing......:E

[Roger Standby]

Hempy:cool:,

Who is the tosser telling students that after the DTI module they'd be ready for Class G? :rolleyes:


ATC students should be aware that working class G will bring you down a lot faster than working controlled airspace. The list of pitfalls is huge!

[Hempy]

Roger,
I'm just as guilty as anyone, although it's used as a 'motivator' and explained that it's only a technical status (which, in fact, it is...in the same way that completing the procedural or radar modules technically qualifies you for field training on that airspace as well).
The sim check qualifies as an endorsement, not a rating.

[Jack Ranga]

Re-inforcing the point RS has made, rather than students/trainees being told they are 'ready' for Class G they do a case study on the Benalla tragedy. Lives lost, careers lost. Class G.

It baffles why anybody would be told that 'technically' they could hold a rating on any class of airspace after a module in the academy. I was never told it. You see the results of these methods in trainees in the field. :ugh: some of them have the common sense to understand what they don't know. The ones that believe it? You can see the results of that on this forum, let alone in the field.

[Hempy]

Jack, feel free to pop on over to Bldg 156 and have a say. Brand new management structure, I'm sure they'll welcome any advice as to how to turn out better field trainees.

[Pauloswindon]

I have applied for the experienced controller positions advertised for Sydney and Perth. I have been searching the internet for information on both Sydney TCU and Perth TCU and have found some information but not a great deal. Does anyone know of any good websites with this sort of information?
I am interested in the different control positions in both TCU's and also interested in knowing which airports they are responsible for.
I would guess that Syndey would be resposible for Kingsford Smith, Camden and Bankstown, among others, and Perth would be responsible for Perth and Jandakot.
Any help is much appreciated.

On a different note, Happy New Year to everyone and good luck to anyone in the process of applying for a controllers position.

[tobz92_ymen]

What is the normal time frame to hear back your assessment day outcome. Had my assessment over 3 weeks ago now in Canberra, and still haven't herd anything, is that normal?

[phildan89]

I don't know what the normal timeframe is regarding assessment day results, but it is the New Year holidays at the moment-the person who lets you know whether or not you got in is probably away on a beach somewhere! Give them a few weeks still to have their holidays and get things ticking over again.

[barberwi]

Well I take it they are back at work, as I got the phone call saying that I have a formal offer online. I'm on a train coming home from Chrissy so can't see it, but looks like they are back in the office

[stevep64]

Ruth,

I'm not 100% sure, but I think they pay your removals once you move to the field. They will only pay fuel or airfares for your move to Melbourne though. We used a backloading company for our moves to and from Melbourne. It takes longer than a regular removal company, but works out a hell of a lot cheaper.

Congratulations by the way.:ok:

[mont]

Think the way it works is that you get airfares or kilometres paid if you drive yourself to Melbourne about $0.70 per km depending on you car engine size. If you have nominated Brisbane as your home location then my understanding is that no assistance is provided to relocate to Brisbane if you finish the college. Best to check with P&C to confirm this.

[le Pingouin]

Ruth, you also need to consider the statistics - you have a roughly 50% chance of rating. Plus or minus. A recent course was considerably below that average.

Come on your own?

[In_Transit]

mont's right. They'll pay for either airfares or fuel for your move to Melbourne, but you're on your own for the move to Brisbane after the course finishes.

[Nautilus Blue]

On a more positive note,
A recent course was considerably below that average.
must mean another course/courses had above average success, if you think about it :)

[HellishFlame]

Hello everyone, my name is Trent, been lurking around these forums for a bit but haven't posted. I too have been trying to get into the ATC training program, and I just got my formal offer a couple of days ago. They want me to be in Melbourne on Feb 25th to begin the course, with my final location being Brisbane.

I was wondering if there's anyone else here who is doing the same course who might be interested in bunking up down in Melbourne. I don't know anyone down there, so I'll have to rent out a place, and I'd much rather be living with the people I'll be working with. If anyone is interested shoot me a message on here and we'll see if we can work something out.

[shack87]

Hellish Flame, Check your PM's. I'm on the same course but will be looking for a fully furnished place. If anyone here knows of anywhere, please let me know!
Also a question to the guys who have started/finished their training. The USB you get given, is it those exact files you'll be studying initially, or is it just a good ballpark area for knowledge!

[Hempy]

The USB you get given, is it those exact files you'll be studying initially, or is it just a good ballpark area for knowledge! (sic)

http://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/490076-atc-intake-requirements.html

[Hempy]

Ruth,

If you'd like to get some reading done my advice would be to download the AIP Book from the ASA website (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/aip/aip.asp) (it's free), and become familiar with pretty much all of the GEN and ENR sections. People have said on here that studying this information will only help you during the first 2 months (theory phase) of your training and not to bother. Well, while it is true that a LOT of the theory is derived straight from that book, I disagree with those posters. A lot of the information in that book will be relevant to you for the length of your career.

Then again, I've only been around 18+ years so I'm not sure I qualify as having a long career. Yet!

[fujii]

Agree with Hempy, I've been around a bit longer (40 years) but non op now and AIP was/is a constant reference. Although some say it only helps for the first two months, if you are already familiar, it's a much easier two months. It is great to cross reference AIP with MATS and see how similar information is published in each. Doing that makes it easier to see how aircrews relate to ATC. When you get into the field, you will be referred to AIP during AIRAC amendment cycles. Operation controllers are required to remain familiar with AIP. If you have quiet time during a shift, flick through all types of documents. It's amazing how often you'll find something new of get a slightly different view of things. All the best for the course.

[stevep64]

It's worth having a look at some of the links in this post http://www.pprune.org/7185789-post1907.html as well, especially if you don't have an aviation background.

I'll second what Hempy and Fujii said about the AIP, you'll use it a hell of a lot during the theory phase, but it's also knowledge you'll need when you get to the sim. The better you know it, the easier it'll be to recall it when you're under pressure. AIP GEN 3.4 is a good start.

[cooldamir]

Hi guys, I will be attending an assessment centre on Monday and I gotta say I have no idea what my chances look like to get this position and I was hoping I could get some replies from hopefully both successful and unsuccessful applicants to let me know where they draw the line... Any advice or helpful preparation tips would be enormously appreciated!!!

[j-mo]

Further agreeing with Hempy and Fuji, except less experience being rated (1 year), the more you know of your AIP the better, espeically when during a sim run or exam your instructor questions you about something and you are able to quote a reference explaining how you are doing it. Even now being rated, working at a 1-man tower I often read through the AIP during lull's, it is probably the most important document for us, along side MATS of course.

Also, once you are in field training, your OJTI will contstantly be asking you where a rule comes from or what the pilots should be doing and makes it alot easier if you are familiar with the documents.

[stevep64]

Ruth,
You shouldn't need to pay for anything up front, the DAME and DAO will bill it all to Airservices. In fact, Airservices booked my DAME appointment for me. If there's any problems someone at Airservices will get in touch with the DAME/DAO to reassure them that they're footing the bill. The Medibank Health Solutions thing is for your drug and alcohol test and my DAME was able to do that as well.

If you do end up paying for it yourself, I think you're looking at about $700 all up.

[thequestor2000]

Things have changed a little bit Steve, we now pay for everything and get reimbursed when we start. Ruth, my costs came to a total of about $500.

[cadetkid]

I paid for my things myself knowing I would be reimbursed because I had such a short time frame to get my medical and everything done before I started the course. By the time they rang and asked whether I had done the medical yet and offered to pay for it on their account it would have been too late for it all to be completed and get everything back from CASA.

Ruth, it depends on which doctor/DAO you go to, some are more expensive than the others. My costs came up to around $700, but Airservices had that paid back to me the week after I started without any issues.

[Hempy]

Ruth,

They don't advertise it this way, but if you think of it like this it may help you understand where you are at (from the organisations perspective)

ASA consider that you have essentially applied to go to college for a year and study for a Tertiary qualification. Like any Tertiary courses it has entry requirements, and because the ATC course (Dip.Av.) is both vocational and federally regulated it has a medical as well as an aptitude/educational entry standard. They will meet your costs but they don't consider it their responsibility to organise anything.

ASA is not the ADF. You haven't been given a job so much as been given an opportunity to train for which you will get paid. After you pass the theoretical and practical competencies required to satisfy both the Diploma and Licensing regulations you will be offered permanent employment.

The course is hard...4-5/10 smart, fit people with aptitude either fail or withdraw. A lot of self motivation is required to get you through it because you WILL face personal challenges that will have you asking yourself what the hell you are doing there. Trainees draw that motivation from various places; love of aviation, the money, the uniqueness of the environment... whatever it is, if you don't have enough of it you will not succeed. ATC is a responsible job, you CAN kill people if you have a bad day...possibly a whole lot of them. Ask yourself if you have that motivation now, because if you don't you may as well stay at home.

[747-438]

Hi Ruth, just wondering when did you attend the assessment day?
Thank you!

[stevep64]

So, only one move instead of two :ok:

Make sure you keep onto CASA about your medical. If you don't have it by your start date, they won't let you start.

[alatron]

Congrats!

I'm still waiting on the outcome from my assessment day – the suspense is killing me!

[airpac13]

Hi, would anyone know of what would the Airservices Australia Pre-Employment Medical Check and Police Checks entail? This is in regards to positions (Support) other than ATC or ARFF. What type of tests would designated doctors carry out?

Need your help please....:)

[stevep64]

You'd have to ask someone at Airservices, Ruth.

[alatron]

Just got my 'application outcome' email – no ATC for my future it seems. Oh well, on to the next thing!

Thanks everyone here for the very useful information and supportive messages.

Al

[WhichWayIsNorth]

Anybody heard anything regarding the experienced ATC positions? My status online still says "Application under review" but i have had no communication.

[left290]

I did the online tests mid december and haven't heard anything since for the experienced controller positions.

[waxo]

Hey bud just to let you know. So far all the SA guys that I know off that applied has been rejected except one who had a connection that side. It's weird I'd say. Hope you come right mate. Let me know.

[left290]

I know a few guys who have received the rejected email, my application still says "application under review".

Haven't heard if I passed the tests or not!

[WhichWayIsNorth]

Thanks for the info waxo, that's very strange indeed.
I have yet to even do the online testing, I assume/hope they are processing the applications in the order received as I applied in the last week. I will let you know if there is any progress:ok:

[phildan89]

Wow its taking a while for some people to hear back!!

I had my online testing and interview before christmas last year. At the time I was told to expect a call back in mid-february once the interview stage was complete. There were over 200 applicants for the experienced positions so it maaay take longer than they thought!

Here's hoping people hear back in the next month or so.

[arnhem flyer]

Hi All,

first post in this forum! Thinking of making the switch from flying to ATC. Does anybody know what the course dates are for 2013/2014? not saying ill actually get on but I need to see out my contract and dont want to get ahead of myself...

[CanuckInOz]

For those that are starting the course in February and asked about accommodation, there is a room for rent in the house that I am in. You'd be sharing with me currently 3 months into the academy and a professional female who works in the city.

Anyone who is interested feel free to PM me. Rent is $120/wk +bills but, bills arent very much and the house is kitted out pretty nicely. Suburb is Westmeadows, quiet and a 10-15 min drive to college.

Cheers

[skyfall78]

no news at all... still waiting

[Tom 86]

Has anyone had any feedback as yet regarding these positions?

[WhichWayIsNorth]

Nope.... Some have done online testing and telephone interviews and others have heard nothing yet...... (Apologies, i see you are asking for the movement monitor positions, have no idea about those)

[jcr737]

Hi Tom 86,

I received an email form Airservices on 21 January as per below:

Thank you for your application to the Movement Monitor roles.

Due to the holiday period the evaluation process has been delayed.

The applications are currently being shortlisted.

We appreciate your patience and we will be in contact shortly.




Kind Regards,

National Recruitment Team

Hope this helps.

[sunnySA]

Some have done online testing and telephone interviews and others have heard nothing yet.
I understand that a dozen or so interviews will be conducted over the next couple of weeks so I'd guess those applicants have been contacted.

[Tom 86]

Thanks jcr737

Same message rcvd by me, nothing heard since then.

[jcr737]

Tom,

Same here. Fingers crossed something soon. :)

[Elias.K]

hi everyone,

I am in the process of completing my application for ATC. One question i didn't expect at this stage is whether I would prefer a role as a Tower or Enroute controller. I am aware of what the differences of the roles are, but I haven't been able to find much info on which role is more enjoyable. Has anyone had any experience on both to shed some light please?

[le Pingouin]

I've only worked en-route but I don't think you can really say one is "better" or "more enjoyable" - it comes down to personal choice. And that's why there is no info. Which is better, shiraz or stout?

Some points to ponder:-

You aren't locked into one or the other for the rest of your career. A bit of extra training and you're ready to change streams. No guarantee you'll get your preference or you might opt to take the next available course regardless.

With en-route you're choices are Melbourne or Brisbane (plus approach units), but then you can get a change of scene by moving between groups in the same centre.

With tower your choices for location are more varied, although that does mean you could end up being sent to any one of 27 towers. And if you want a change of scene it could mean moving a considerable distance.

Controlling a primary capital city tower is very different to controlling a procedural tower, which is very different to controlling a GAAP tower, but they're all tower controllers.

Controlling arrivals is very different to controlling a large procedural or oceanic sector, which is very different to controlling low level sectors, but they're all en-route controllers.

Each has it's good and bad points, challenges and rewards. But what those actually are comes down to each individual controller.

[Nookie2nite]

A mate of mine received an email today stating he did not make the short list...thanks for applying....didn't even get to online testing :eek:

[le Pingouin]

For better or worse Australia can be quite particular about who it lets in to work. If you don't meet those criteria no amount of suitability for the job will help. Not saying this was the case with your mate but it's a possibility.

[Elias.K]

Hi le Pingouin, thanks for your take up. You make some good points. I suppose in either there is scope for a change of scenery which is good to know.
I know that with enroute you're locked into one location for the first 5 years. Would you know with tower controlers how long people wait to be transfered to a preffered tower? Im guessing this may be a 'how long is a piece of string' type question, what have you seen in your experience?

[In_Transit]

You'll still be looking at 5 years. And then to be able to move on, there has to be enough other controllers at that tower for you to be released. I also work en-route and love it. I guess one of the other big differences is, with enroute there's a good chance you'll never see the planes you work with. I'm lucky that I do arrivals into Melbourne so I can sometimes see my sequences come in to land.

[Silicon]

hey guys,
I have received an email yesterday, about the experienced controller which told me that I have not meet ASA's requirement.
I have working as a tower controller at an airport which has 700+ landing and take-off, using Euro-cat, 4 years working experience.
And I just wandering, why not even let me attend to online test?
:ugh:

[Nookie2nite]

Silicon r u a saffer?

Just curious.....

[waxo]

Silicon I have 13 years working experience and worked at various airports that use eurocat and that are busy. I have a commercial pilots license and an instructor rating for both jobs and 600 flying hours. And I also didn't get it. I suppose with so many applicants for not that many posts they can pick and choose as they want hey! Sorry to hear hey. Maybe next time!

[arthurlee880806]

Hi all!
I've just recently applied for the Air Traffic Controller.

Should I wait for them to inform me to get the Class 3 Medical Certificate or I should just get one first just so it doesn't delay any other application?

And can anyone let me know what is my next step after the application lodged.

Thanks :)

[CanuckInOz]

ArthurLee- I'd go back through this forum and have a read. Its been asked and answered pretty recently.

[skyfall78]

the same email i got today mate....:O i thought that they'll give us a chance to get the online test. but i wonder that the quota been enough at the moment.:ugh:

[Nookie2nite]

Skyfall....check ur mail over next few days...they have come back again and offered tests to my mate who was previously told he didn't make the short list....maybe just tidying up? Good luck!

[lewy89]

Hey guys
I'm starting at the academy next week. Just wondering if anyone else is in the same boat. Pretty nervous to be honest as I haven't studied since I left High School so not really sure what to expect. If anyone else on the same course needs somewhere to stay for a week or 2 just let me know, I have a spare bedroom at my place and I am 8 minutes away (did a time trial) from the academy.

Guy

[shack87]

Hey Guy,
Yeh i think im on the same course as you, enroute? I'm all sorted for a place to live, but if youre nervous, best advice is to spend the better part of an hour reading this thread, there is a tonne of great info so you know a bit more about what we're getting into, and what to expect.
I'm living in sydenham so if you're nearby, shoot me through a PM and we'll meet up for a few beers!http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/icons/46.gif
Tim

[Duane]

@arthur, Class 3 medical took me about 2 weeks, I would only get it done once you are told you are suitable following interview. I got it done after I accepted an offer however (I am controlling in a blue suit at the moment)

@silicon, I would ring them up and ask them why you dont meet the requirements, I would assume that they have made an error given the experience that you have. At least if you know where you didnt make the grade you can get on you way to fixing whats broke so to speak. I know a guy In a similar position (20+ years experience in UK) got told he was unnacceptable because he had not exercised his tower endorsement in Australia. Long story short he still hasnt (got a tower endorsement) and has an interview with AsA. I think it depends who reviews your application.

Anyone else on this forum doing conversion course starting 29 April (terminal) and staying at quest? I have a car and can carpool, inbox me if you need.

[aspiringatc]

Sat the online test yesterday, apart from the fact that two of the questions had no correct answer there for me to click (emailed them about that one!) it seemed ok, let's see how I go :}

[balancemaestro]

might be a case of "pick the most correct answer" there. the psychometric questions can be a bit like that. good luck anyway mate

[petesmith787]

Hi Guys,

Anyone else out there on the ENR80 course starting April 15th?

I've just been accepted :)

[kiwi chick]

Hey Darren!

I've been on course for six months but that sounds great - can I move in?!

:E

[haughtney1]

Hey Darren, I fly into and out of MEL a lot, I probably speak to you as well from time to time....I work for a large airline based in the middle east that is presently in partnership with QF....the sound of a deck for beer drinking sounds too good to be true:ok: Can I come round, sit on the deck and drink beer? I can sweeten the deal with a few hosties that I'm sure I can drag along:}

[Hempy]

Good on ya Butch

[stevep64]

Jim,
All four of us on my tower course were pilots and I believe a high percentage of the trainees on one of the current enroute courses are also pilots. So I doubt they are biased against us.
One of the assessors when I did the sim exercise asked me if I was a pilot, because of the phraseology I was using, but he didn't seem to have a problem with it.

[SpankyRooster]

Jim,

Like Steve, I know many students from my time at the academy that had pilot backgrounds, therefore I find it difficult to believe that you would be discriminated against for those reasons.

I believe that that regardless of the specific subject of any of the tests on the assessment day, you have to follow the instructions. If they say, "Using the information available, tell me this... or answer that, then if you answer using your previous experience and what you think you already know on the subject, you don't necessarily hit the nail on the head.

They are testing your ability to absorb information, relay it and follow instructions... after all if you are successful they will teach you everything you need to know.

I might be wrong, I don't have any experience recruiting for ATC.

Regards,

Spanks

[le Pingouin]

Jim, the whole point is you're undergoing an aptitude test not a knowledge test. Clearly "leave you pilot knowledge at the door" wasn't stressed enough because what did you do?

[Elias.K]

Hi guys,

I had an incomplete application in the system. I got an email on Friday saying that some spots for assessment are still available in April and I should apply if I want to be considered. Are these guys short of applicants or something? Do they actually keep an eye on incomplete applications coming through? I would have though that they would only bother with the submitted ones.

Anyway, put my application in today so lets see how it goes.

[Duane]

were are always short of controllers in Oz, both military and Civvie. at some point the system is going to break in certain areas, they are trying to recruit in order for that not to occur

[constipated]

Hi guys, I have an assessment day early April.

Is it important that I visit a centre/tower/terminal before my assessment day?

I tried arranging a visit, but each time I call, and the reception lady tries to transfer my call to someone in the right department; no one answers the phone.

Should I just keep persisting? How long in advance do I need to arrange a visit? 1-2 weeks? I worried I wont have enough time to schedule a visit before my assessment.

Cheers

[Ubix]

Hi there

When did you apply for the job? I was just wondering as I just recently applied but haven't heard back yet? Did you just apply recently?
Thanks!

[constipated]

I applied around the end of January.

It took about 2 weeks before I was asked to do the online test. But then it took around 6 weeks before I was contacted again, saying I was successful and to select a time for the phone interview.

[TrafficTraffic]

Constipated....:rolleyes:

PM with your details and I will see what I can about getting our people to talk to your people and organise a visit - well worthwhile for you to see what you are getting into and a sign to those doing the interviewing that you made an effort...

TT

[constipated]

TrafficTraffic,

Thanks for the offer, but I was able to make contact with someone from ASA and they said they will organise it for me and get back to me in a few days.

But if it falls through, Ill get in touch with you.

Cheers.

[Hempy]

Suggest those interested get apps in, getting plenty but not too many with aptitude so I hear

[shack87]

yeh good call hempy, although I hear that the latest course to start have an above average aptitude, with an immaculate dress sense!

[Singaflyer]

hi there
Anyone on the forum who is starting Tower 69 course on 15th April?
cheers

[djhaslett]

Hey Singaflyer - check your PMs...

[thequestor2000]

Anyone looking for accommodation in Melbourne, close to the Academy?

Room to rent in an almost new, 4 Bedroom house in Burnside Heights (17kms from AsA).

Available from April 22nd.

You will be sharing with a rated Air Traffic Controller who can help you with your studies at the academy.

House is fully furnished but you will need to provide the furniture for your room. Lockable garage available. No lease agreement to sign.

$200 per week plus share of bills. Only sharing with 1 other clean single male.

No unhappy or moody people need apply.

Inbox me for mobile number.

[stevep64]

No unhappy or moody people need apply.

Unhappy or moody people? I seriously can't think of anyone at the academy when I was there like that. I think it comes later. ;)

[greg777]

hi mate,

im on the tower course in august, any chance we can stay in touch if i have any questions as i live in cairns
greg

[greg777]

hi looking for general information about the tower course in melbourne. im on the august course.

is it basically mon to fri and what hours 8 to 4 type thing or something else. im wondering if i am going to be able to travel home to cairns on the weekend once a month etc.

also what is the course structure, is it theory for the first few months then practical or something else? is there a lot of study after hours not that i mind.

what are the areas like to live west of the airport around keilor , taylor lakes and burnside heights, are these new type suburbs and nice?

when do you find out where you will be posted and do you get to state preferences

[stevep64]

Greg,
The questions you asked have been answered ad infinitum in this thread. If you do a search for an FAQ in the thread, you should find all you need and then some.

[pop4]

hi looking for general information about the tower course in melbourne. im on the august course.As mentioned above by stevep64, you want information, read this entire thread. Pretty much every single question you have has been asked and answered in this thread. But hey, I'm feeling nice so...

is it basically mon to fri and what hours 8 to 4 type thing or something else. im wondering if i am going to be able to travel home to cairns on the weekend once a month etc.Yes, basically Monday to Friday, no weekends, no public holidays, and time off during the xmas/nye period. There are two shifts of approx 07:00 - 14:00 and 11:00 - 18:00. Your course will work one of those shifts for a couple of weeks, i.e. a cycle, and then it could change or stay the same the next cycle, and so on. Chances are, your first cycle will be the early shifts ; you will be told your work hours when you start anyway.

also what is the course structure, is it theory for the first few months then practical or something else?It starts off with pretty much mostly all classroom theory stuff, then moves onto a mix of theory/simulator work and then mostly simulator work with random theory stuff thrown in once in a while.

is there a lot of study after hours not that i mind.It's adult learning and what you do after hours is up to you. But keep in mind, there is A LOT to learn and understand, in not a lot of time, and it is up to you to put in the effort and time, however much that may be. If you want to make it though, partying and going out every night is not advised.

what are the areas like to live west of the airport around keilor , taylor lakes and burnside heights, are these new type suburbs and nice?They're pretty much all newish suburbs and you probably should be able to get to work within 30mins if you lived in those areas, but other than that, I can't really tell you much about them.

when do you find out where you will be posted and do you get to state preferencesYou can certainly let the staff know your preferences, but at the end of the day, you're going to be posted to where you're needed, and that means at any of 27* control towers around the country, including Broome, Alice Springs and Karratha.

*there's actually 28 control towers around the country, but the chances of an Ab-intio being posted to the Hamilton Island control tower is pretty much zero. But then again, the company that you will be working for has done some strange things.

[greg777]

thanks very much for your time to answer my questions, much appreciated.

[greg777]

to old to party every night!!:O

[jonmayyyy]

Hi All,

Have read 50 odd pages, first time poster.
I put in my resume and applied via seek some time ago.
Roughly 2 weeks later i was emailed to do the online test. After the online test i was phoned for the phone interview, 3 weeks later.

Some people have said to me they were pre warned of the phone interview, and got to set a time. Mine was out of the blue, basically they called and it was straight into the phone interview, every-ones experience will be different I guess. The guy on the phone interview was only after short concise answers. When I asked him at the end when I would hear back, he was caught of gaurd, and suggested I keep checking my Emails.

Probably a week later I was called (not emailed) to attend the Brisbane testing center for April. Following this they emailed me to pick a day and I picked Monday 08/04/2013.

So after reading this forum a bit I brushed up on my Maths skills using year 8-9 algebra workbook 1 (available at QBD) - algebra workbook 2 says year 9-10 so I just used workbook 1....
I dont think this is cheating as the online test for math was measuring speed of sums, not knowledge.

So yesterday I did the big day test, very nerve wracking!
There was six of us (including me) and 7 Testers. We each got given a timetable which was different (some people did sim first, some did sim second etc etc.)

They asked us not to go into specifics, so I will give you this for the sim - just make sure you have a good short term memory! If your going to decide something make sure you can tell them what that was in 2 minutes time :)

For the group test, was actually quite fun. They gave us each a sheet with limited info, we couldnt look at each others sheets. It was a game in a way of finding the info you needed from the others, who would in turn need some info from the next guy to do their task. (edit )

For the spatial test some of the things I have read about did not exist, I have read some people previously were tested by having a moving box across the screen dissapear then they have to click when it reappears. This was not on the test!!!
Anyhow the things they did test there is no prep you could do! If I could retest tomorrow, I could not prepare, and would do the same tomorrow most likely for results!



For the interview i found this easy, was very relaxed, however we also had another interview / briefing which was us getting up in front of the assesor and presenting back to them information we only had a short time to read. This was more like getting up in front of class of students and doing a debate or doing show and tell - for myself, a more shy person, I found this much harder then they person to person interview!

If you also did the test yesterday, today or tomorrow (Wednesday) let us know how you found it? And GOOD LUCK!

[constipated]

hi jonmayyyy, I just did the brisbane assessment day too.

Not too sure how I went. I think I might have stuffed up the sim, and also the maths related test. But I guess time will tell...

I guess its just a matter of time, hopefully we hear back within 2-3 weeks; but Im not holding my breath.

[theOutsider23]

Hi jonmayyyy,

I am the quiet guy from "another" country who did the test the same day as you and did not make the cut for the group test according to you.

I just do not find it fair that you pinpoint someone in public saying that he did badly and made it difficult for you. I would like to know in what way I made it so complicated for you.

Speaking more does not mean that it is better or more correct. What is important is the content of what you say, and I feel that I communicated what others needed to know from the information I was given and which nobody else could know.

We could just speak one at a time since I remember that one times I spoke the assessors asked us to speak one at a time. And as the assessors requested, we had to be ourselves not pretending to be someone we think they would like us to be. I am a bit shy too like you, but that does not stop me from communicating when it is required, I just could not find anymore information that could be useful for the rest of the group apart from those times that I spoke.

That exercise required team playing. I feel that by pinpointing and blaming that person from another country does not really show a real team player.You might have done well, bad or so so in the test, but in reality you are not showing to be a good team player, but someone who pretended to be one.

I believe I am a good team player since my work actually requires it in each project and I never go around people's back criticising others.

I have my opinion about how each one did, but I would not be pinpointing in public saying that a particular person did it difficult for the rest, let alone when it is not true.

Team playing is about collaborating and speaking to each other, not speaking about someone to other people. I don't know if some people pretend to be someone they are not when it comes to tests. I just hope that the assessors can really pick up who was pretending and who wasn't.

Anyway, good luck to you and the rest of the guys and hopefully we will see each other in Melbourne and will be able to clarify this matter.

I just jumped in because I felt I had to defend myself and disagreed with your comment. I did not find it fair. You could just have said how it went for you, not who did badly. And when you say that I made it difficult for you, you cant just leave it like that. Every statement has to be accompanied by an explanation to support your comment.

It's the first time I see someone putting someone down in this forum.

As I said, wish you the best of luck and hope you make it through even if I don't, but please, try not to pinpoint in public, and talk directly to that person at that moment when you feel something to say. Hope to see you in Melbourne.

Cheers.

[shack87]

Well said.....I miss this banter, hope to see you at the academy soon!

[jonmayyyy]

hi outsider,

I meant no offence, but for me personally I had trouble understanding what you were saying sometimes.

I did very poorly in the presentation, you may have aced this, and thus balanced your performance.

@constipated, i also buggered the sim a bit, i managed to crash a plane into a crashed plane, who does this? other than that fatal mistake generally tried to be clear and communicative in the sim, overall i think they would forgive 1 or 2 big errors if you were doing all the rest very well.

(edit)

If, during the exercise, I had asked you to please speak more clear or louder, how would this make you feel? You would only be annoyed and I would be negatively affecting you during the short time we had.

I put the info regarding this more as a general guide for future candidates, to expect to have to talk loudly, if I could not quite hear you the, assessor another 3m meters away would have more trouble.
But I could be wrong, and your assessor herd you better than we herd each other, and deems you as a good team player.

[jonmayyyy]

double post

[theOutsider23]

Hi jonmayyy,

Thanks for your clarification. I wouldnt have minded you asking me to speak louder/clearer if you had problems hearing me. But I understand your point.

I listen to many real transmissions between ATCs and pilots through live-atc.net and it is quite common to hear one asking the other to speak clearer, or someone reading back the information incorrectly and the ATC repeating it.

I didnt say that I did well in this one.I personally do not feel satisfied with my performance during the group exercise. But I dont know how they are going to assess it. Some people talked a lot, others not that much. Sometimes it was difficult to break into the conversation since the assessors just wanted one person talking at a time.

Next time I will speak louder/clearer. I did not realise I could not be heard much at that time. But I guess that is something that the assessors will mark down on me. What I meant by the previous post is that if that is right, they will take it into account and it would not affect your performance in the test, but mine. That's why I didnt see why you had to blame or point someone out. You can describe how you think you did, not how you think "I" did.

That's all. Anyway, thanks for you answer. It is understandable.

Good luck to everyone.

[constipated]

does anyone know roughly how long before we hear back from them? Hopefully less than the 4+ weeks everyone else have been saying...

I was told by the assessors that there is a course available in Brisbane around May. This would mean things would need to move pretty quickly, as we would still need time to organize our medical; which I have heard takes weeks, sometimes months.

[jonmayyyy]

Hi Outsider,

I understand regarding the derailment of our task. We seemed to spend too much time deciding one particular element and only around 5 mins to the end we put in some physical action, in hindsight we probably needed 5 minutes per element, not 20 minutes on one, 5 on the rest...

In a sense it was an unwinnable scenario, I know my task had some impossibilities on my own sheet which wasn't discussed, if I could not figure it out I didn't want to waste our groups time.

When we both reach the learning academy we will laugh over a beer about it. (pity we cant really discuss specifics here)

@constipated,
We asked at the end and the assessor told us they were trying to bring the time frames down from previous years. She was still unable to give us a concrete time frame but suggested around 4 weeks.

[theOutsider23]

hahahaha. "When we both reach the learning academy"... I see you pretty confident about it. Lets hope so, although I am not quite satisfied with my overall performance.

The test verification was so so. Spatial went great for me I think. And diagrammatic alright too. As for ATC simulation I think I did great in one part and so so in the other. Regarding group activity and briefing.....probably the weakest points....I never did well in presentations anyway, so I was expecting it. The group one was quite confusing....

Well, hope we can have that beer anyway. You buy it ;).

Cheers!

[Liabella]

Hi All,
I would firstly like to say congrats to all the get through and sorry to all that don't. Its tough but rewarding from my experience so far.

I would also like to thank Kieran17 and KiwiChick. Your posts have been very informative, as have everyone elses.

I attended the ATC Testing Day in Brisbane last week. Feel pretty good but won't know until I get told. I know they have a reference check however from here can be another 3-4 weeks. By the look of some posts, even longer. Patience is the key.

Fingers crossed I am accepted to the Brisbane Academy due to family requirements (young family) but if Melbourne is the only option then the bags will be packed and off I go. Hopefully can organise some accomodation??

I really just wanted to say hi, introduce myself and make myself available.
I am really looking forward to attending the academy and busting those books hard. I know it will be a hard slog, but easy is not rewarding.
Also loooking forward to speaking and meeting like minded people that I hopefuly will be training and working with (fingers crossed)

Regards
MIK
:ok:

[constipated]

Anyone heard back from their referees yet?

If our referees have been contacted by ASA (and our referees give a positive feedback), is it pretty much guaranteed that we have made it through?

Also wondering if anyone who was recently in the academy, or currently in the academy can give their own personal experiences? I've read this entire thread, and I know there has been several posts with people's experiences, but I guess it won't hurt to have more/other perspective.

I am most worried about the passing rate within the academy; where only around 50-70% of students pass. Perhaps I am getting cold-feet; but the thought of quitting my job and moving interstate, and spend 1 year studying only to find out that I 'don't have it in me' is gut-wrenching.

To those that have done the course, and seen people who didn't 'make it' or 'didn't have it in them'; what exactly did they not have? I know we talk about having a natural ability to be an ATC, but can you guys give a more specific trait/skill/ability that they lacked?

Is it:
- their lack of motivation to study/learn the theory
- their ability to remember information; eg. rules, laws, etc
- their lack of calculation/maths skills (not sure if this is important)
- their lack of ability to visualize things spatially/3d
- their ability to think on their feet/ make quick decisions

I guess I would just like to know why some students fail/dropout; other than the generic reasons of 'just didn't have it in them to be an ATC'.

[jonmayyyy]

Hi Liabella,

I also would have to move to Melbourne if accepted. I have been waiting a while after applying for the testing day, and debated this before applying to be an ATC. It will be a major uproot for me to move, but I really really want to do this for life!
All the best of luck, our accessors said they were attempting to get smaller turn around times than previous years, when they estimated 4 weeks I would guess they are pulling all strings possible to not have 2 month wait times any more :)
It is very hard to sit and wait, but I don't think emailing them and pestering them would help any, so we all must squirm in our seats for 4+ weeks :(

[djhaslett]

Liabella, check your PMs....

[Liabella]

Just got the call saying that I was accepted. WooHoo!!!

Djhaslett - thanks for the PM. Just shot you an email.

Fingers crossed i can get into the Brisbane Academy, but by the sounds of it it will be Melbourne. Now comes the first challenge of finding accomodation close by and also making sure the family is provided for in Brisbane, if I have to go to Melbourne.

[BigSkyTheory]

I am most worried about the passing rate within the academy; where only around 50-70% of students pass. Perhaps I am getting cold-feet; but the thought of quitting my job and moving interstate, and spend 1 year studying only to find out that I 'don't have it in me' is gut-wrenching.
Perfectly natural to feel this. Gut-wrenching it undoubtedly would be, but putting it brutally it's simply something you're going to have to deal with along the way. Your quoted pass rate is pretty close to what happened on my course and anecdotally is probably not far off the mark overall. The following may help a bit, bearing in mind I'm writing from an enroute perspective.

What was lacking in those who fell by the wayside in my course? Your list is pretty close to the mark:
- their lack of motivation to study/learn the theory
Those who have trouble motivating themselves for studying will not pass the initial theory component, simple as that. I think, having been selected, moved to Melbourne and gotten stuck into it, most of my course had already invested enough in the 'idea' of being an ATC that this was not an issue (at least initially). Later on, as the course dragged on a little, some people did lose this motivation but overall, it's probably the one thing that is entirely in your conscious control. So you put up with it and do the work, or you do not finish the course.
- their ability to remember information; eg. rules, laws, etc
There is a LOT to remember, yes. The things you use every day become easy before too long but you will need to dig deep into the back of your brain every so often to come up with something different. Lots of practice - extra sim runs and so on - help solidify a lot of the content in your mind, so you can to some extent control this one too.
- their lack of calculation/maths skills (not sure if this is important)
Not as important as you might think (at least it isn't where I ended up), but you might need to be able to think in sixes, and multiples thereof. Another easy one to fix yourself!
- their lack of ability to visualize things spatially/3d
I'd add a fourth dimension there too - time. Things never stop moving in this job. This one's a harder factor to control yourself. ATC is very much a unique job and the skillset needed for it isn't really found anywhere else. This is one that you won't really know til you have a go at it.
- their ability to think on their feet/ make quick decisions
I'd call this one 'flexibility' - ie you need a Plan A, but if that doesn't work, you also need a Plan C, D, E and sometimes F too. The flexibility bit is the ability to shift between those plans seamlessly when required. And sometimes you will make the wrong decision - rather than sitting there thinking 'hope no-one noticed' (I guarantee your instructors, both in the college and in the field, will have noticed), FIX IT!! Then move on. You may have to sit there looking a bit silly for the moment, but that beats a smoking hole in the ground.

So, really, most of the factors you've mentioned are very much within your control. A failure for one of those reasons is, brutally, entirely youir problem. As for the rest? I don't think it's really a case of 'you either have it or you don't.' Some people have a certain amount of natural ability and that helps, but the rest of it can be learned - through hard work, practice, humility, patience and an ability to laugh at yourself occasionally.

Bear in mind the aim is to get a rating - not to simply finish the course. You think the college is tough? Watch the learning curve go vertical when you get into the field. I've seen a not insignificant number of people come out of the college and fail final field checks (one was from my course). But at the end of it, it is possible for people to get through. Hey, they even gave ME a rating! Livin' the dream, and all that. Hang in there.

BST

[constipated]

Thanks for your input BigSkyTheory, really appreciate it!

Just curious, out of the people of pass the college, how many fail their final fields check?

Did most students who fail/get drop from the college know it? - eg. they find themselves struggling with the theory/sim, or do most of them think they are doing fairly well, and then suddenly they get told by the instructors that they have to pack their bags?

I think I should stop worrying, and just jump in and make the best of it.

[stevep64]

Did most students who fail/get drop from the college know it? - eg. they find themselves struggling with the theory/sim, or do most of them think they are doing fairly well, and then suddenly they get told by the instructors that they have to pack their bags?

It won't be sudden, you get regular reviews in the sim and you generally get the tap on the shoulder when you've been 'at risk' several times in a row. You'll know if you're not making the grade and there are usually options, like recoursing or extra sim runs. It really depends on the individual.

In my case, I chose to leave because I was struggling and knew it was just going to get harder. I got through the theory okay, with lots of studying in the evenings and weekends. Once I got to the sims I just couldn't keep up with the pace. I was forgetting phraseology, missing possible conflicts, you name it, it all added up to me getting further and further behind in each sim run. Once I started going to work with a knot in my stomach, I knew it was time to go.

[Konsalgs]

Hi mates, I was happy to be short listed by the recruitment team and finished my online test with full of excitement but that wasn't long. Got result next day about not been competent. Did anyone faced that I know test is not tough but time limit make u nervous. Do they review result and recall to sit for another go.:cool:

[le Pingouin]

their ability to think on their feet/ make quick decisionsAs an experienced controller I'd say that is the killer. Most of the other things mentioned become evident early on and can be addressed to a degree by self application but it's how the whole package comes together at the end under real pressure that counts. It isn't always evident until that pressure is applied that there's a problem.

how many fail their final fields check? 20% +/-

[Elias.K]

Hi Konsalgs,

I did the online test last night. I thought I totally botched one of the sections, I accidentally skipped the practice questions on that one and then didn't know what to expect when the questions came up. In the end looks like I did better than I thought as I got an email this morning to book my phone interview. So tracking well so far.

[arnhem flyer]

Hi Guys,

I also attended the assesment centre in brissie recently (9th) and really unsure how I did, (pretty average in the maths stuff im sure!) not sure about the sim, I had to be reminded a few times on how I worded things. Hopefully we hear back soon. interested to know if anyone from those 3 days has heard anything.

[Liabella]

Hi All,

I have been accepted to the Enroute Course in Melbourne commencing 1 July 2013.

While i don't like my chnaces I am hoping that I may get placed in Brisbane even if it starts later. Would be perfect for my situation, but then again if it's Melbourne only, I'll be there with bells on.

I'll be looking for accomodation while there. I'm not fussy as long as its clean and close to the Academy. Transport will be the killer as the family will keep the car in Brisbane (young family, school runs etc).

If you know of anywhere that fits in with these dates please let me know.
How do others get started with transport etc. Sounds a silly question but hoping to not have to buy a car for only 12 months.

Good Luck to all the other applicants who have applied.
MIK

[Liabella]

Hi Arnham Flyer,
I attended the Wednesday Test Day (10 April).
Reference check done on 15th, and got the call yesterday to say I was selected.
Good luck to you and your chances :ok:

[Ubix]

Just completed the online test. Oh my god, missed questions & messed up the maths part damn!!! I don't think I'll get in this time!

[constipated]

Liabella, from what I have read in this thread, most people are saying that the only way to get to the academy is really by car. Public transport is non-existent, as the academy is on the other side of the airport.

Although, some people have mentioned that there were a few people who rode bikes to the academy...

[Elias.K]

Liabella,

Here is info on public transport to Melbourne Airport. Airport travel - Public Transport Victoria (http://ptv.vic.gov.au/using-public-transport/airport-travel/)

This would only get you to the Terminal though. I mapped out a walk with mapmyrun and it works out to over 7.5km from Tower Rd to the Terminal were the bus would drop you off, so walking from there is not a good option. Maybe a cheap bicycle you can lock up somewhere near there is an idea.

I would contact Melbourne Airport or Melbourne Centre and see if they know of any other service that might run between the two locations.

Personally, if I was in a course I would be happy to pick anyone up on my way from the bus stop, so maybe there is someone in the course who is willing to help you out, most people going onto the Tullamarine freeway would be passing by there anyway.

Have you been given an option on waiting for a course to start in Brisbane or are you locked into the Melbourne course?

[arnhem flyer]

Hmm, no call yet. Although no rejection either hate waiting!

[constipated]

arnhem flyer, perhaps check with your referees? they might have been contacted - thats always a good sign.

[cadetkid]

Just for reference guys, the next Brisbane course starts in May, which I imagine is full if you are getting offered July courses. The next Brisbane one after that wont start until sometime around September/October or later.