Type Rating - which type, where, why pay etc? [Archive] - Page 4

A330ismylittlebaby

2nd Sep 2006, 12:26

Have you been along to do the independent GAPAN aptitude tests?

If that is your goal, you have a lot to learn about the industry, and you must consider that you will have little choice of first flying job - you have to take what is available at the time.

Do you really understand the industry well enough to join it yet?

But i would need to join it in the first place though wouldnt i. Otherwise i would be doing nothing.

I feel comfortable that i know quite alot but obviously i have nothing to go off.

whether a turboprop requires type rating instead of just a multi engine licence.

Can people give me a test on here to see how much i know:)

A330ismylittlebaby

2nd Sep 2006, 12:32

A330etc... - May I suggest a different career? You obviously have access to the internet and have done very little research off your own back. To fly an an aircraft, either privately or commercially, you have to be capable of a certain amount of self study and certainly be capable of "hitting the ground running". Maybe when you have taken your GCSE's...
What i research flying everyday, i just didnt know if i needed a type rating for a turboprop gosh that's really nice that people want to shove me down. Maybe i should just keep quiet.

Bealzebub

2nd Sep 2006, 12:50

A330ismylittlebaby

2nd Sep 2006, 13:32

ok i'll forget my career that i have been wanting to do since i was 8 years old, i really thought pilot's are helpfull people. I have had people thinking i am poor from primary school because they thought i had special needs when all it was, was the fact that i had low self esteem due to the fact that i have no friends.

This special needs in maths and english put me down even more and the only subject which they dont do special needs for "Science" I got up to top set. Funny that. People just assume i am stupid when really i am just fed up with having no one to love and pretty much the only thing i have in life is my love for flying. And my thread was because i am tired of trying to figure out 1 little thinkg. Everything else i had researched on my own.

Bye Then

Bealzebub

2nd Sep 2006, 14:12

I am very sorry you have had those problems and I hope you overcome them and have a successful future. However this is a professional pilots site and albeit a "wannbees" forum, the answers you are likely to receive to any question posed will largely come from a peer group within this forum and from professional pilots generally.

Make no mistake this is a cut throat industry and competition for the vacancies that do arise is extremely fierce. You only have to read the threads that are live on page one of this forum to quickly become aware of that fact. As a result it is an industry that takes few prisoners and presentation is everything.

I doubt there is anybody that wishes you ill or would not be ready to answer your sensible questions, however a better mix of research and advice absorbtion would likely result in more sensible and relevant questions and contribution, and that was my point.

finally I would make the additional point that professional aviation has a very high attrition rate, and one of the absolute prerequisites for any chance of success, is the need for determination and flexibility. Many people do quit for one reason or another, and some of those reasons are very valid and some beyond an individuals control. However if you quit at any point the truth of the matter is no one will care other than you.

phil2004uk

2nd Sep 2006, 14:15

I think there is alot of snobbery around but that's not a surprise due to the fact that we are speaking on an english forum. For Decades people from other countries have seen the uk as people who are looking down on the less educated or even just people who look like they are. Which is basically where pride and prejudice came from though that was a story, it is still depicting England.

I feel ashamed to be english in some ways but in others i am so happy but i think the good feelings come from chatting with people who actually don't pre judge others and can see other's points of view and ironically enough those people are the people who work for £5.40 an hour and graft to the point that they hurt.

I know there are good pilots out there but i am starting to lose faith in this forum. Is there an american forum because i feel the americans are less judgmental and can actually see other people's points of view no matter what educational qualifications they had from high school.

A330ismylittlebaby

2nd Sep 2006, 14:20

Yes maybe you should ! Certainly you should listen to what other people are advising you. In another thread you stated : "Is my gcse grade e in maths bad as i did do well in maths after gcse but no qualification saying i am better?", and based on your use of English, you would be well advised to concentrate on your present studies ? I would also suggest that if you are going to rant on about yourself you use Capital "I" rather than lower case "i".

There is a lot of assistance and advice available for you on this and other forums, but it tends to become diluted if you simply overuse the facility and allow yourself to appear foolish.
I can say that when i posted the thread i was in a call centre which is worse than watching paint dry and my enthusiam is low because of this. I am good at typing, i just type quick and i don't read my writing because i spend so long on the internet that i end up typing as simple as i can.

I am not stimulated at this moment in time because i have no outside life yet and wish this to change soon hopefully when i start flying though i am getting a bit worried by what type of people are out there. Hopefully as nice as the people i have met in my temping jobs.

My IQ on the BBC phsycometric tests was 103-Is that o.k?

Piltdown Man

2nd Sep 2006, 15:08

Er Phil, I think you are confusing listening and understanding another's viewpoint with honest comments and opinion which may hurt and offend. American pilots will dish these out as well as anybody else, especially if you ask dumb questions! And how do you know a person's academic qualifications from their post?

And finally, what do you and A330-etc (who appear to be very similar people judging by the tone, readability and contant use of lower case "I"s mid sentence) want from this forum - honest advice or pointless, nicey-nicey platitudes giving false hope and no guidance!

Regards,

PM

Bealzebub

2nd Sep 2006, 15:12

Phil / A300, ;)

It is not a matter of "snoberry". As for an American forum, I am sure there is, and no doubt some more quick research with your keyboard will reveal numerous such forums.

However you perceive the egalitarianism on the other side of the Atlantic, I can tell you that the requirements for airline employment in the USA are even stricter than they are here. A university degree is almost always a requirement. Whatever other generalisations you want to make, this is a professional pilots forum and it is on the subject of professional aviation that these answers have been given. If you don't like them that is fine.

As for losing faith in this forum, that is up to you. The only faith that matters is that you have in yourself. It matters not one jot how sorry you feel for yourself or how hard done by you feel. If this is really the career you want to embark on, then you need to give yourself the best fighting chance. That involves serious hard work and determination. As I said before it is all about presentation and like it or not you are judged and pre-judged on your presentation be it here, the USA or almost anywhere else. If you have a perception of low self esteem, then do something positive to reverse it. I am afraid that not everybody out there is going to be nice to you, and you need the maturity to be able to handle that in any event, but most certainly if you want to embark on a professional career as a pilot.

A330ismylittlebaby

2nd Sep 2006, 15:27

Gosh i'm not the other guy i am me and i live in south manchester. When i come on here i dont really make an effort to talk much because i am tired and just bored and want to be out doing things with people.

I think most people here are alright i just dont give off the right impression but that's because i am feeling less than enthusiastic about things in my life.
If i was out at the airport i would be using the right words buti let my hair down when i am at home probably because i dont socialise much.

Megaton

2nd Sep 2006, 15:58

I have found pilots, as a breed, exceptionally helpful and I have been mentored and coached all the way through from PPL to Airbus type-rating. Pilots will always help provided you bring with you the right attitude and some aptitude. You claim to be fairly conversant with aviation but that really doesn't come across terribly well in your posts. You also claim to have scored adequately in the BBC's psychometric tests and then spell "phsycometric" incorrectly! And I do realise that IQ isn't neccessarily a function of one's ability to spell!

Perhaps you might wish to put your dream on hold for a little while longer while you build maturity, resilience and some knowledge of the business.

If you're serious I would strongly suggest you buy Clive Hughes book "Guide to Getting a Commercial Pilot Licence." I've even included a link for you:

http://www.ppl-atpl.demon.co.uk/reviews.htm

This book will answer all your questions and perhaps prepare you better for future forays on pprune. Good luck!

A330ismylittlebaby

2nd Sep 2006, 16:09

Thankyou and i always have probs spelling physco right did i do it properly there:p

Well i am ok with spellign when i think about it but not when i'm typing on the internet. It gives me a headache when trying to read on here.

That's why i type quick (44 words per minute on my last test)

So do you think 103 on iq is ok, i hope so. I'll try test the nation test when it comes online:)

Bealzebub

2nd Sep 2006, 16:27

What is it you want us to feel an IQ test score of 103 is ok for exactly ?
I am convinced you are seriously missing the point, and getting the uncomfortable feeling this is all a bit of a wind up Phil ? :=

GotheriK

2nd Sep 2006, 16:28

Wow, take it easy on the kid, he's just asking questions we all had to ask at one point or another.

Isn't that the job of a responsible pilot? To ask questions and learn? I would rather him come here and ask the questions he needs to ask, than keep silent and go out into the world not knowing where to start.

A330 glad to hear you have a passion for it! How far along are you in your training?

A330ismylittlebaby

2nd Sep 2006, 17:09

Thankyou sir:) I just only asked about whether turbo prop requires a type rating, ok i didnt do research on that, but i do, do research on alot of things and i am tired of searching and just need the answer quickly which is why i came here.

How's florida? I love going there, every year i went with my parents they were doing roadworks on the 192 and he says they have been doing it since 1988:p
But i think i remember them finishing it 2 years ago.

Re-Heat

2nd Sep 2006, 17:36

But i would need to join it in the first place though wouldnt i. Otherwise i would be doing nothing.
I feel comfortable that i know quite alot but obviously i have nothing to go off.
whether a turboprop requires type rating instead of just a multi engine licence.
Can people give me a test on here to see how much i know:)
You do not need to join GAPAN to be aptitude tested by them.

ok i'll forget my career that i have been wanting to do since i was 8 years old, i really thought pilot's are helpfull people. I have had people thinking i am poor from primary school because they thought i had special needs when all it was, was the fact that i had low self esteem due to the fact that i have no friends.
OMG.
And you still don't socialise?

Lucifer

2nd Sep 2006, 17:42

Thankyou sir:) I just only asked about whether turbo prop requires a type rating, ok i didnt do research on that, but i do, do research on alot of things and i am tired of searching and just need the answer quickly which is why i came here.
So you are wasting our time as you can't be bothered to search for yourself.

Get a life, read some aviation publications, and stop whining.

What you think is enough "knowledge" to get you by, appears here to be little more than the musing of someone who has been unmotivated their whole life, with a "fixation" of sorts on aviation. If you have common sense, then fund a PPL and find out some information, without mulling over every single life question you have in the public domain.

I am not stimulated at this moment in time because i have no outside life yet and wish this to change soon hopefully when i start flying though i am getting a bit worried by what type of people are out there. Hopefully as nice as the people i have met in my temping jobs.

My IQ on the BBC phsycometric tests was 103-Is that o.k?
Frankly no.

A330ismylittlebaby

2nd Sep 2006, 17:46

So you are wasting our time as you can't be bothered to search for yourself.

Get a life, read some aviation publications, and stop whining.
What! No! I was tired and really stressing and just needed some help. I am not whining. But then why the heck am i trying to explain myself to someone with a name of the devil.:ugh:

Can someone give me an estimate of how many people are like this guy because if he is in aviation then i don't want to be in any job with nasty ingorant sods like this who don't give a **** for people's feelings. I don't know how you can sleep with yourself at night
I mean i start shaking at night but that's from anxiety and being scared of death and i try never to hurt anyone's feelings.

Lucifer

2nd Sep 2006, 18:04

I mean i start shaking at night but that's from anxiety and being scared of death and i try never to hurt anyone's feelings.
I am saving you upwards of £60k on flying training. You can't hack it if you can't get over your current state of mind.

You are not conversant with dealing with people and lack confidence by your own admission. Either you spend time and effort joining teams, sports, clubs and other activities in addition to knuckling up on your aviation knowledge, or you give up and continue as you are without moaning.

There are an awfully large number of sharks who will take your money, and never admit to you that you are not capable of flying professionally.

I can tell you that now for free that you are currently incapable of dealing with the situations required of you as a pilot, and I sleep at night in the knowledge that I have helped you - contrary to what you might think yourself.

GotheriK

2nd Sep 2006, 18:09

Can someone give me an estimate of how many people are like this guy because if he is in aviation then i don't want to be in any job with nasty ingorant sods like this who don't give a **** for people's feelings. I don't know how you can sleep with yourself at night
I mean i start shaking at night but that's from anxiety and being scared of death and i try never to hurt anyone's feelings.
Well, I live in the States, so I can't talk for our friends over in the U.K., but nearly every person I've met in the aviation world has been nothing but helpful and supportive, from pilots to the guys who give me my weather. :ok:

Please, don't give up on your dream just because of some snobs on an internet forum. If you can't find your awnser here, try asking your instructor; go to your local airport, make some friends, get your foot in the door and don't be afraid to ask questions. And if you haven't already, start your training NOW. The teenage years are very important if you're planning on entering a flying carrer out of Uni. Get as much certification as you can. If your parents can't pay for it, get a job at the airport, I know a kid who gets free lessons by pushing paper at his local FBO, it's also a great job if you have a passion for aviation (sitting around airplanes all day)! You'll have to get over your shyness a little, but you'll be so glad you did.

I am saving you upwards of £60k on flying training. You can't hack it if you can't get over your current state of mind.

You are not conversant with dealing with people and lack confidence by your own admission. Either you spend time and effort joining teams, sports, clubs and other activities in addition to knuckling up on your aviation knowledge, or you give up and continue as you are without moaning.

There are an awfully large number of sharks who will take your money, and never admit to you that you are not capable of flying professionally.

I can tell you that now for free that you are currently incapable of dealing with the situations required of you as a pilot, and I sleep at night in the knowledge that I have helped you - contrary to what you might think yourself.
You and I both know that's utter crap. You're telling this kid he can't fly because--he's shy? When I was 16, I was the same way, and I'm quite sure it hasn't impaired my flying ability.

A330ismylittlebaby

2nd Sep 2006, 18:19

I am saving you upwards of £60k on flying training. You can't hack it if you can't get over your current state of mind.

You are not conversant with dealing with people and lack confidence by your own admission. Either you spend time and effort joining teams, sports, clubs and other activities in addition to knuckling up on your aviation knowledge, or you give up and continue as you are without moaning.

There are an awfully large number of sharks who will take your money, and never admit to you that you are not capable of flying professionally.

I can tell you that now for free that you are currently incapable of dealing with the situations required of you as a pilot, and I sleep at night in the knowledge that I have helped you - contrary to what you might think yourself.
o.k then i suppose. I know one thing from school that i do come accross as if i dont know anything.

Hence they put me in bottom set once i was in high school.

But they couldnt do that in science because i guess due to the fact that they only do it for the main subjects.

My self esteem in the maths and english was poor because they though i couldnt do it.

but in science where no-one was looking over my back i excelled.

I am now confident and that's why i want to gain the ratings myself without anyone saying oh you're not good enough.

I do make sure im awake when i am at interviews and i am now a customer service advisor.

thanks for helping if you meant it constructively.

Here's the Deal, If someone is out to prey on others i will act shy to bring out the people who do prey on others and on the other hand i act mature when i know these people don't care if i am good enough.

But in a professional job i act professional. I drive with due care and attention and use technical words when needed or when i have a person who i care about and want to talk to them about.

But offcourse there are times like this when i am tired from work and on the internet and fed up and sometimes or most of the time find it hard to read alot and end up typing really simple. With the exception of this post as i am being motivated which is fun.

Lucifer

2nd Sep 2006, 18:23

You and I both know that's utter crap. You're telling this kid he can't fly because--he's shy? When I was 16, I was the same way, and I'm quite sure it hasn't impaired my flying ability.
I am telling the adult that acting shyly in the face of adversity is not going to enable him to act as a leader in the flight deck.

If people giving advice here were snobs, they would say that candidate x could not achieve the career as he has not achieved 3 A Levels from Eton, Oxford degree and would have had a seat in the Lords were it not for those pesky Labour party commoners.

This is instead a lesson in meritocracy, and offering advice to those who seek it.

GotheriK

2nd Sep 2006, 18:26

I am telling the adult that acting shyly in the face of adversity is not going to enable him to act as a leader in the flight deck.
Hmm, for some reason I was under the impression he was a teenager, all the mentioning of parents and school. My mistake!

A330ismylittlebaby

2nd Sep 2006, 18:27

I am telling the adult that acting shyly in the face of adversity is not going to enable him to act as a leader in the flight deck.
I mean at work and on the phone to customers i am like excuse me sir we cant do that for you as the company policy is this and that. But when at home i do tend to be very relaxed and have more feelings but yes i need to grow.

Which is why hopefully my gaining of a ppl will get me out more, I am going to join a club. I mean at work we have a laugh but that ends and i go home.

I am quite stable really.

In terms of socialising and speaking i do feel the lack of being out with people has made me feel that i am 16.

Although my professional speak while at work is Proper.

I dont know i just need to be out more:)

BitMoreRightRudder

2nd Sep 2006, 18:51

Wow between this thread and the one about the clinically depressed flying instructor I think there is a case to re-open Agony Aunt. As her services are clearly needed.:eek:

A330 go down the pub immediately.

A330ismylittlebaby

2nd Sep 2006, 19:09

Either that or as my supervisor at the duty free shop said, i need to get laid:p Let's put it this way, it wouldn't be a bad idea for me to work at virgin

mcgoo

2nd Sep 2006, 19:13

Although my professional speak while at work is Proper.

oh the irony!

I thought you worked in a call centre, where did the duty free shop come from.

Bealzebub

2nd Sep 2006, 19:55

However the good news is that most of the roadworks have been completed on the western end of US 192. :rolleyes:

Kestrel_909

2nd Sep 2006, 19:59

but in science where no-one was looking over my back i excelled.

So what happens during your flying exams, line checks and sim rides, with someone watching every move you make, even what hand you twist that knob with. No one, or very few like being monitored like that, but can get by. If you really hate it, your career in aviation will be even more difficult. Will you have low self-esteem because the captain is beside you watching your landings?

Mentioning your IQ of 103 is useless, it gives no indication of your ability to work as a team member or your flying ability. Pilot's dont need to be MENSA students, but they certainly need to be able to string a sentence together.

Go back to study Maths and improve on your Grade E, even if you decide on another career, it will help your options.

Yes there are some twits on PPRUNE but it's not fair to judge the people in the industry on the minority of a$$holes on PPRUNE, but a$$holes are not people who are being realistic about a career in flying.

A330ismylittlebaby

2nd Sep 2006, 21:14

So what happens during your flying exams, line checks and sim rides, with someone watching every move you make, even what hand you twist that knob with. No one, or very few like being monitored like that, but can get by. If you really hate it, your career in aviation will be even more difficult. Will you have low self-esteem because the captain is beside you watching your landings?

Mentioning your IQ of 103 is useless, it gives no indication of your ability to work as a team member or your flying ability. Pilot's dont need to be MENSA students, but they certainly need to be able to string a sentence together.

Go back to study Maths and improve on your Grade E, even if you decide on another career, it will help your options.

Yes there are some twits on PPRUNE but it's not fair to judge the people in the industry on the minority of a$$holes on PPRUNE, but a$$holes are not people who are being realistic about a career in flying.
It's fine now when people are there and i love showing off but not to the extent that i am an idiot. I am the type of driver who keeps to the speed limit or i at least drive at speeds that are safe for the conditions i come accross.

I didnt even stress about my driving test. I dont seem to have any stress when under a test.

I just appear to not be able to do something, which is why they shoved me in bottom set but i shined on the other classes.

Because i am not immediately put in a box plus i have learnt out there to not give away signs. Like i understand things that people say, it's just that unlike most people who go "yes yes right" i actually just sit there and listen and maybe give the impression that im not sure but now i am learning.

I worked at duty free sho[ but now in a call centre.

I can put sentences together but not on the internet because i am zombified on here. I spend all day on it so as to conserve energy and reduce stress levels i don't read through my writing and type about 44 words per minute, so it may be a bit off.

neilia

2nd Sep 2006, 22:13

A330, the best thing you could do right now is get yourself down to your local flying school and talk to some people about flying. Flying people love nothing more than talking about flying stuff and are generally more than delighted to be able to answer questions that someone needs answers to.

I'd also make a friendly suggestion that you give away slightly less of yourself on a public forum.

To answer your initial question, the basic route to turbines is that you get yourself a commercial pilot's licence endorsed to fly multi-engine piston aeroplanes. Then (in the ideal world) an airline offers you a job, and puts you through the type rating for the specific aircraft type they want you to fly. There's no generic "turbine rating" as such.

A330ismylittlebaby

3rd Sep 2006, 07:50

james707

3rd Sep 2006, 14:26

Bond Aviation:

B737-200 $ 6,000.00 USD

B737-300/400/500 EFIS $ 7,997.00 USD

B737 NG $ 12,500.00 USD

All prices include manuals and examiner fees

also available ATP rating with Type at no extra charge
www.bondaviationservices.com:)

short final 28

3rd Sep 2006, 17:44

hi,

just wonderimg if someone could help me out on this? doing a type rating in america is it possible to then come back to europe and fly? or do you need an american licence to do an american type rating??

scroggs

3rd Sep 2006, 17:47

A330, read this thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649). Click on all the links and read them thouroughly. Do not post again until you have completed that task.

Once you have done that, have a think about how you are going to improve your Maths (an 'E' at GCSE is woefully short of what a pilot needs) and English. You don't say how old you are, but I get the impression you have just left school. If that is the case, most employers will base part of their selection procedure on your academic history. If you are younger than 20 and have fewer than 5 GCSEs at Grade C or above, you will rule yourself out of many jobs. If you are contemplating a 'mentored' scheme such as CTC, you may well require 2 A-level passes. One or two schemes in UK are now suggesting that a degree is the minimum academic standard to enter, and that requirement may become normal in future.

You have a lot of work to do.

Scroggs

menikos

3rd Sep 2006, 19:46

FAA licence = FAA type rating

JAA licence = JAA type rating

MD 90

4th Sep 2006, 13:02

Hy,
I would like to know the cost of an MD 90 type rating in Europe and some adresses of MD 90's TRTO.
Thanks

Rene Pedersen

4th Sep 2006, 13:26

Hy,
I would like to know the cost of an MD 90 type rating in Europe and some adresses of MD 90's TRTO.
Thanks

I don't know the price but I know that SAS Flight Academy does MD-80 training but as SAS operate MD-90's as well i guess they can do training for them :confused:

you can reach them at http://www.sasflightacademy.com

Hope this helps

René

difman

4th Sep 2006, 14:18

Thank you flugfisch, I will look that up.
difman

ALTSEL

4th Sep 2006, 15:10

Go to Montreal, use CAE/Bombardier hotel and BID the price for the course- they will haggle a lower price to get your business!

CRJ - a realy nice flying machine.

ALTSEL

Jimmy The Big Greek

12th Sep 2006, 09:16

When you go for a JAA typerating do you have to do a written examination or is it just an oral like the FAA system.

Piltdown Man

12th Sep 2006, 09:26

Your TRTO will arrange an appropriate objective test as part of the type training. Certainly for larger types it will be written (one of those 'multiple guess' jobs). But why do you ask?

PM

Jimmy The Big Greek

12th Sep 2006, 10:37

So there is no "official" JAA test for typeratings. Just by the TRTO?

Club World

12th Sep 2006, 12:22

As far as I am aware for GECAT A320 TR.

Done on the computer, there is about 2,000 in thier question bank,

you get 100 Total Questions for the exams, all randon but further seperated into sections,

Autoflight
Electrics
Air Con etc etc

In each sections you have to get 75% to pass, but your grand total has to be 75%

So say you got 99% overall, but only scored 73% in say Electrics,then its still classified as a fail, however you only need to repeat the section you fail.

You then do Mass and Balance, Perf and F- Planning and Low Vis written, all require 75% tp pass.

BillieBob

12th Sep 2006, 14:25

Each TRTO will produce its own examinations, which are individually approved by the relevant NAA. Some TRTOs sub-contract this task and the GECAT A320 electronically generated exam comes, I believe, direct from Airbus. Other TRTOs have their own electronic systems to set exams but most rely on hard-copy papers.

For a multi-pilot type there will be a minimum of 100 questions distributed across the main subject areas of the theoretical knowledge syllabus (as defined by Appendix 1 to JAR-FC 1.261(a)) and there is a pass mark of 75% in each subject area. For single-pilot types the number of questions depends on the complexity of the type and the pass mark is 75% overall with no requirement to pass individual sections.

I know this because I have spent the last week and a half preparing new papers for approval by the UK CAA - fingers crossed!

dartagnan

12th Sep 2006, 14:35

how hard is the t/rating course on jet (737/a320,...).

how many hours do you have to study in your hotel room, what s the hardest topic (electricity??W&B??), what did you like, dislike,etc...

RMP2

12th Sep 2006, 18:00

I found it easier than the IR training. A320 is really easy to fly...just monitor and read the ECAM, actions are written, then press the red illuminated PBs..

I had the CBT and all the manuals several months before enrolling the course, it might be the reason why I found it really easy. I heard the 737 is more difficult.

The hardest part was to wake up at 1:00 am for sim sessions.

What I disliked: The X channel was not free at the hotel...

FullTanks

28th Sep 2006, 20:53

Ladies & Gentlemen
I do think you may have been set up by 330. If this thread IS the result of a seriously intentioned enquiry, then it is the clearest indication yet of the major problem currently affecting pilot recruitment, namely that of self selection for training. Whilst many of those self sponsoring for a career in civil aviation are competent and utimately technically qualified there are sadly many who never were, and never will be suitable as professional flightcrew. For them the struggle and the ensuing debt could have been prevented and saved by the timely advice that this is not the career for them. All flying schools are run as businesses - they want your money. You may have the technical ability and ambition - that is NOT enough; you must be able to potentially fit into the system and satisfy the interview board of any operator to which you apply. Find out BEFORE you spend the money, not when you hold a fATPL.
PS You also need to be literate.

mcgoo

28th Sep 2006, 21:12

I totally agree ;)

Re-Heat

29th Sep 2006, 15:12

Ditto.
Sadly, I do not think it is a setup.

number

1st Oct 2006, 19:34

What TR shall I go for? Are there more chances to be hired with a 737 or 320 type rating?
Probably the million dollar forever asked question, but repetition is the mother of skills.

Thank you

mcgoo

1st Oct 2006, 19:36

isn't it pretty risky paying for a TR without a confirmed job offer?

number

1st Oct 2006, 19:58

I've been talking to a few flight operation directors of several europeans airlines, and this is pretty much what I got:
see, 3 months ago 3 fresh 737 TR pilots showed up here , we were in the need of pilots and after a successful sim check we hired them. I can't tell you we'll take you when you'll show up type rated, but so far this is how we happened to hire some pilots.

Some small airlines do not have an agenda or annual forecast of when and how many pilots they will need before summer 2007, eventually they'll start to think about that in April, and if you happen to be there, with the right title, you might get in.

Now, the point is, 737 or 320? And Why?

Hour Builder

1st Oct 2006, 20:21

toss a coin

pilot-320

1st Oct 2006, 20:59

:= If it ain't BOEING i ain't going!!!

DID THAT MAKE ANY SENSE?

More seriously now the AIRBUSES are quite popular lately for low cost airlines (exclude RYANAIR) which gives more opportunities!
I know that pilots moving from BOEINGS to the playstation derivatives (airbuses) were amazed from their technological advancement and easy handling !! that means that they are lazy!!! hahahaahah:cool:

CONCLUSION: I'm a BOEING lover and i will be without saying that if someone offers a job on an AIRBUS ill say no but u understand what i mean....

i know u are confussed about my loggin name though but i have to say that the person who created it is a very good friend and he stopped writing in here as he is flying ( AIRBUSES).

HAVE FUN WHATEVER TR U'LL DO!!:ok:

Deano777

1st Oct 2006, 21:19

isn't it pretty risky paying for a TR without a confirmed job offer?

Going on what was said at the seminar a week ago Saturday that used to be the case but not so much any more, and the days of airlines paying TRs for new hires is pretty much over (there are exceptions to every rule of course)

pilot-320

1st Oct 2006, 22:23

DEANO777 ( 236 ER ? 300? OR 200LR) OK A LITTLE HUMOUR IS OK I GUESS!!!

I totally agree with u but i guess that even though the TR is not a gift from the employer anymore u can do it with them and then can be deducted from ur salary.

Just a simple question for u: would u consider doing a TR before getting a job?

p.s: dont know if u fly for an airline or not but one more opinion will help all of us in the future!!

THANKS MATEY!!!

Deano777

1st Oct 2006, 22:41

Hi Pilot

I'll go for the 777-236 ;)

What you say is true but which ever way you dress it up or down you pay for the TR, directly or indirectly.
I am currently at the flight training stage, should be ready for the airlines by January / Feburary, would I consider doing a TR before getting a job? a very subjective question I guess, and very person specific, I would have to think long and hard before I did, at this moment in time if I thought there was a high possibility of a job afterwards then yes I probably would, but every person's situation is different, I am 33, I have to try to enhance my chances of gaining employment every which way I could, and if I thought a TR was the way forward then I would do it, and very begrudgingly so, what I wouldn't do is lay my house on it, that's a very risky thing to do, I'd have to make sure I was comfortable with spending the kind of money it would cost.
As for what type, well, this would depend on who I was targeting, it would have to be the 737 or 320, I'd love to get a Q400 TR as I'd love to fly this bird period, but if I couldn't land a job with a certain Exeter based outfit then I'd be up sh*tstreet without a paddle, after hearing a few things at the seminar I'd have to opt for the 737NG rating, but that's just my opinion :)

Dean

pilot-320

2nd Oct 2006, 00:56

Dean u are very well informed and down to earth!! This is an advantage of getting a job as u know better than me! Q400 its amazing and sounds like a very 'cheap' and optimistic option for job hunters!
i'm still under training and i cant wait to finish... of course instead of the type rating theres the option for an instructor's course!!

Although if i had the chance i could go for a 777-236 TR!! HAHAHAAHAA joke euh? Im in love with that bird !!!!:ok:

Deano777

2nd Oct 2006, 02:31

Hi again :)

The Q400 is a wonderful bird isn't she (obviously not talking from experience), I would love to fly her, and a wonderful learning curve she would be too, the only problem in doing a Q400 TR is that there is only one operator here in the UK who flies them, FlyBe, I would love to fly for FlyBe on the Q400, but obtaining the TR up front limits you to this company only, not a bad thing if they hire you, but if they don't then you are stuck with a pretty useless TR if you want to fly in the UK.
Instructor's rating for me after the MCC, then I'll look at a SSTR, how far are you in your training pilot-320?

737BBJ

5th Oct 2006, 07:48

isn't it pretty risky paying for a TR without a confirmed job offer?

I guess the answer to the risk part of your question is yes. But without a type rating, no job offer on a B737 or an A320. Simple as that.

And as you can read from other posters, people get hired with low hours and 1 hour on the type. So if you can finance it, go for it :)

number

5th Oct 2006, 14:32

Hi,

Maybe it exists, maybe I wasn't lucky to find it. However I've been browsing plenty of messages concerning 737 TR prices, pros vs. cons. and havent found a lot.
My question is, why don't we start putting together all the prices and comments of the TRTOs?
I'll start with :

Astraeus:
B737-3/4/500 Type Rating Training
(All ground school and simulator in the UK)
- 13 days technical and performance ground school and Examinations
- 16 hours fixed base simulator
- 36 hours full flight simulator
£11,750.00 + VAT
- 1 hour of base training (up to a maximum of 6 landings in any one hour)
£4,000.00 + VAT

Sabena:
B737 TR + base training: 26000€

Bond Aviation: (answered me with an hotmail account?!?!)
This is for the EFIS, If you need more information on more models I'll be glad to sent that information
Your investment for B-737/ EFIS Type Rating is $7,995 US (Discount for 2 or more students). This include:
Set of manuals, Cockpit panel
64 Hours Ground School
20 Hours Full Flight SIM (10 left seat, 10 right seat)
4 Hours Fixed Based SIM Training
2 Hours FAA SIM Type Rating Check Ride
1 Hour FAA Oral Exam by on staff Training Center Evaluator
FAA Evaluator fees included for Oral & SIM check. Also included at no additional cost CRM, CFIT, & RVSM Certification. For your convenience we have in-house evaluators and proud to say our pass rate is 100%. Another benefit we offer is the aircraft system CD from CPAT for only $360.00 US.
We recommend you received your materials at least 3 weeks in advance for home study before first day of class. Registration fee in the amount
of $1,500 US will reserve your seat and we will ship your materials. We can give you more information on how to do a wire transfer.
If you have your ATP written, you can acquire your ATP at no extra charge.

tudeski2004

5th Oct 2006, 16:05

I think with the BOND aviation being FAA it will not be recognised over here. Correct me if I am wrong:}

dartagnan

5th Oct 2006, 16:18

the hours they give you in the USA are the minimum time by law...usually you don't pass a check ride with 20hours sim(10hours in reality) , when in Europe they ask for 60-70h.

FAA t/ rating are not recognized in Europe, and you will have to spend some money here in a sim to get a JAA type rating(plus you need the line training). I don't think you save lot of money if you go to the USA...and you have to deal with the TSA, DHS, fingerprints, Visa,...are they M1 visa approved? TSA accepts only M1 or J1 visa and B1 when ICE accept only M1 orJ1 (call the TSA and get your clearance and visa BEFORE paying anything).

as for the Cpat prg, 360$ is the normal price, so they do not offer you anything.
Remark like this, make me feel that I should stay away from this organisation.

have they placed pilots, do they help you to get a paid job(not eaglejet;)).Hidden fee? do they really do what they say? I doubt!

at this time there are no visa for type rating in the USA. Even Flight Safety is not M1 approved .
Students going to the USA on a tourist visa or visa waiver take the risk to be deported as ICE does'nt recognize the B2 or visa waiver for t-rating.Ask your US embassy for clarification.

MikeAlphaBravo

26th Oct 2006, 08:26

I am about to embark on a SSTR including 100hrs of line training. The problem I am facing is which rating to do, either the 737 or 757. I invite opinions as to which rating is most sought after in todays market, and the prospects of gaining employment with only 100hrs on type. I realise that there are pros and cons to each type and think the more opinions you can compare, the easier it will be to decide which one. I know this thread has been covered before but with an ever changing demand in the job market, I would appreciate up to date views.
Thanks for the help:ok:
MAB

scroggs

26th Oct 2006, 08:45

For the full range of opinions, try an advanced search using the key words 'Type Rating' (restricted to titles only), limited to just the last 3 or 6 months. You will find that all the relevent topics will be displayed (including this one) and you can browse at your leisure.

[b]Scroggs[/b[

ACP

26th Oct 2006, 13:24

Dartagnan is right, be very careful because the money you will spend for a type rating or anything else might lead to stop your career if you don't find a pilot job straight after your investment. I will give you my story as an exemple:

After my CPL/IR and several months of search for a empty right seat, I finally joined an airline and worked for a year as flight dispatcher, and a year later as Cabin crew. I quickly realised there were no possibility to shorcut and jump from the cabin to the flight deck, so I decided to pay for my own A320 type rating (no line training included). That has been the worst decision in my career: all airlines (even in third world countries) asked hours on type, not even 100 hrs, but at least 300 - 500 hrs on type. They really didn't care about my type rating as they receive tons of applications from pilots in the same situation. Their first question has always been ''how many hours on type do you have? We need 500 hrs on type''. Other said'' we are in partnership with this TRTO which provide our F/Os'' etc..

Several months later and 450 hrs TT, I went to Turkey and talked to the chiefs who offered me a nice right seat position to fly 500 hrs on the A320 for 25000 euros. Desperate, I was ready to make a loan and join, but they already had 12 rich guys in line training at that time, and I wouldn't have been able to start before next season 2007.

I have no more money to keep current my TR, I am out of the game ;)

Finally, I recently found a job on a king Air, a friend of a friend...it's been hard to justify to the CP why I do have the A320 rating, and what were my career objectives. He gave me a chance as I have been referred, but paying for rating (or flying) is definitely not appreciated in the industry.

I am not the only one, my A320 partner and 2 other friends are now instructing on C152...

dartagnan

26th Oct 2006, 17:10

paying for a t-rating can go against you.
I have no type rating but hours, and I see more and more people are interested by me.why? they can bond me, or I have money to pay for a type rating on one of their planes.

people offering you a type rating, are just looking at the 30% they can make from you.They do not care about you, they want just your money and you bye bye...
(and don't forget, it is no tax free)

so keep your money for now...until you have a job promess by a serious airline.

airmedic332

1st Nov 2006, 14:16

Hello everyone. I have a question regarding obtaining an FAA 737 tr with 300-500HRS on type. I currently have IRISH CPL/IR WITH FATPL. I live in the states and HAVE A FAMILY. I would like to minimise time spent away from home by completing FAA TR IN the US. I would like to know if it is possible to convert the US TR without having to complete a JAA initial, or if there are reduced requirements for pilots with time in type. If at all possible I would like to hear any feedback regarding employability after the completion of TR. Many thanks for any information furnished.

dom462

6th Nov 2006, 14:42

If you get offered a contract by an airline and you are then required to do your type rating, does the airline give you a salary or an allowance while you are doing the training? If so, is it a partial salary or full starting salary?

Also, what about the CTC's AQC course. When you are doing the type rating do you receive a salary or allowance. If so how much?

scroggs

6th Nov 2006, 15:18

If an airline offers a contract conditional on you paying for and achieving a type rating, don't expect to get paid. If an airline offers you employment, during which you are expected to undergo a type rating at the airline's expense, you may or may not receive a salary. Basically, there is no rule - every airline has its own system. All are covered here on Pprune - time to learn how to use the Search facility!

Scroggs

JeyFromLFMT

10th Nov 2006, 13:01

Hi!!!

I am trying to find a TRTO providing JAA Type Ratings, especially an A320 Type Rating, in North America (USA or Canada), I can't find any!

Anyone can help me?? Some names?

Thank you very much! ;)

Jey

David_Lid Air

10th Nov 2006, 16:50

First of all I want to say hello to you all. It has been a while since I last posted here.

Now to the question.

What rating should one go for these days? I am a low hr guy, so I am thinking of a TP rating. I think it is better to start from there and move upwards later on when experience permits :), bad idea?. But the hard part is to know which A/C type one should put my money in :confused: .

Any tips would be appreciated.

(Sorry for the bad english)

Cheers from the Swedish guy :}

Brian304

11th Nov 2006, 00:30

Just wondering, is there any companies that offer the 747 type rating in the world together with line traiing?, and what is the cost?. As all mostly i've seen in the UK are 737 training packages and not 747 ones before, so just hope people can help me out on this.

Thanks

Brian304:ok:

portsharbourflyer

11th Nov 2006, 08:23

The Icelandic Flight Academy are currently advertising a 747 classic sstr with line training in association with Air Atlanta Icelandic, not sure what the minimum requirements to apply are (would have thought more than a frozen ATPL with 250 hours would be required). Also Parc in association with Cargolux did a 747 sstr a few years back (minimum requirement to apply was 1500 hours). In thoery the sim time shouldn't cost that much more than a 737, however on the base check you will be paying for twice as many engines, hence I imagine the base check would be quite expensive.

ant1

11th Nov 2006, 21:10

A little search not farther than this thread would have led to this one (http://www.randhem.com) ;)

waltair

12th Nov 2006, 09:56

You folks should know that you really do not have to pay for a type rating at all; at least not in the sense of paying cash and never having the company pay you back. It does not seem to matter the number of hours you have, either. You probably all know about British Airways cadet schemes, but maybe you do not know that places like Qatar airways hire expats with 250 hours and give them airbus type ratings.

Now, I do not know what Qatar is saying publically; all I know is that I met this British kid in the simulator building doing his type rating on the Airbus and he said he had 250 hours. He was wearing glasses, as well! So, take heart! Somewhere, somehow, there will be a company that will give you a type rating for free.

...after all, if a guy like me can get it paid for, so can you...

personal site: http://walter.freefuelforever.com

portsharbourflyer

12th Nov 2006, 21:46

The British Airways cadet scheme no longers exists, the only low houred recruits they accept are from Oxford or Herez, as for the low houred pilots at Qatar; they ran a second officer scheme in 2005 during which some low houred pilots were recruited onto the A300 and A320 fleets.

However they have not advertised another second officer scheme since. While there may be a handful of low houred SOs at Qatar (recruited from one second officer scheme) there is a far greater number of low houred FOs at Ryanair whom have paid for type ratings.

Londonboy29

14th Nov 2006, 10:01

Dear All,
I have a question re: what would be the best type rating to go for?
For example, would anyone know if there is anywhere one can find the numbers of each type in service....and also projections over the next 5 years etc..??
I myself prefer the 737, purely as I prefer a yoke control to a side-stick, but from what I see there seem to be more A320 series types around so am thinking that may be better?
Any thoughts much appreciated.
Kind regards.
LB

boogie-nicey

14th Nov 2006, 10:13

LondonBoy, why not try the recent back issues of Flight International magazine. The annual airline directory composition gives a comprehensive list of the airline, boardroom figureheads, contact details and also a list of each type operated.

Alternatively the internet should come up with something too.

Lucifer

14th Nov 2006, 13:12

I myself prefer the 737, purely as I prefer a yoke control to a side-stick
OMG! - and on what basis did you decide to start your training in the first place? Aircraft looking nice?

Pure answer is - who is recruiting, and what gives you the best chance in your position.

class a

14th Nov 2006, 13:22

I think you will find the chap with 250hrs at Qatar airways got in because his father owns the airline he is a member of the royal family and he trained at Willowair at Southend nice guy met him a while back and he was just off to do his airbus rating

boogie-nicey

29th Nov 2006, 10:42

Hello folks, I just had a couple of questions regarding Type Ratings.

If you already hold an ICAO type rating with some time on is it possible to undergo the JAA Type rating but without having to undertake the Base Training or is it still required (for example 280hrs on type).

Also why are some UK TRTO so bad at acknowledging and replying to your correspondence? Sorry just a gripe on the side.

High Wing Drifter

29th Nov 2006, 11:01

The base check is an experience requirement. Something like less then 500hrs on a similar (read JAR 25 or ten tonnes or something of that ilk) type you need six landings, or four landings if less than 1500 hrs. I suspect you best locate the answer in LASORS lest I'm spouting total rubbish.

boogie-nicey

29th Nov 2006, 13:08

Yep, I'd better get that PDF copy of Lasors out from the dark corners of my PC and trawl through that. Though I must admit at times it can be even more confusing with all that legalistic speak :confused:

Anyway thanks for that High Wing Drifter.

BTW: Considering the likes of Ryanair and LCCs, when they state self fund your TR do they expect you to go off and get it yourself or do they fund it and expect you to repay through your salary?

xavi_r1

14th Dec 2006, 16:23

Hello!! Please could somebody help me?? I´m going to do A320 TR and I don´t know what TRTO choose.I´ve heard good things about cokpit4u but I don´t know anything about Randhem. In Randhem the course is done in Minneapolis EEUU, they told me that this TR is JAA approved but I don´t know because it is done in EEUU in Pan Am TRTO.
Please someone know anything about this???
Thanks a lot!!

Javi-Spain

low n' slow

14th Dec 2006, 16:35

Yes it's JAR approved. I have a couple of friends gone through Randhem and they seem content. I can't comment any more on this, because I haven't seen Randhem myself.

Good luck/LnS

xavi_r1

15th Dec 2006, 11:23

Hello!!
Please someone have done A320 in Cockpit4u??
I´m going to do it and I´d like to know about the TRTO and convalidate it in Spain CAA

Thanks

Javi

Jumbito

18th Dec 2006, 02:29

Hi everybody!
I´m gonna start the A320 TR with Cockpit4u in January. It seems that you have such a good references from your colleagues. I am really surprised that all of them had got a flying job. I knew that Wizz Air was needed of pilots because too many leaving the company but I am really happy about your friends.
How many hours did they have when Wizz Air hired them?
Many thanks in advance APPCH!
Byes!

FlyTester

18th Dec 2006, 02:56

Now, the point is, 737 or 320? And Why?

One's an airplane :cool: , the other's a video game.

Simancas

21st Dec 2006, 22:12

[quote=xavi_r1;3019890] Hi Xavier!
I´m spaniard and rightnow finish the A320 type rating (Dec. 22th check ride) with Randlem in Minneapolis. The course went OK. All the instructors are English speaking, for this reason, English is a must.
The sims, instructors and instalations are GREAT. We use Northwest Airlines installations. Our instructor JR is a great guy that knows how to teach and spend a lot of time with you. He tries to show you the airplane and lots of things.
I´m really happy with it. Just we aware of all the Spanish Civil aviation paper work, you must be ahead of it and be prepare to arrange all for your self.
If you need more details, I´m willing to help you!

ant1

23rd Dec 2006, 12:37

Hola Simancas,

Espero que te haya salido bien el examen de la habilitación.

Estoy interesado también el en curso de habilitación del 320 y quería preguntarte si Randhem está reconocido por la DGAC española.

Gracias

[quote=xavi_r1;3019890] Hi Xavier!
I´m spaniard and rightnow finish the A320 type rating (Dec. 22th check ride) with Randlem in Minneapolis. The course went OK. All the instructors are English speaking, for this reason, English is a must.
The sims, instructors and instalations are GREAT. We use Northwest Airlines installations. Our instructor JR is a great guy that knows how to teach and spend a lot of time with you. He tries to show you the airplane and lots of things.
I´m really happy with it. Just we aware of all the Spanish Civil aviation paper work, you must be ahead of it and be prepare to arrange all for your self.
If you need more details, I´m willing to help you!

number

4th Jan 2007, 07:48

A few days ago I happened to be in Bucharest, Romania and out of curiosity I went to Bue Air base to leave my resume and speak with some captain.
I told I was looking for a sort of type rating sponsorship: I commit myself to buy my type rating through Blue Air and in return I asked if I was given the assurance of a contract.
The cheaf pilot answered me by opening his email imbox and showing me a long list of qualified 737 type rated pilots with hours on type who sent him their resume. Hence he said that they don't do these sort of sponsorship because they would rather hire directly an experienced type rated pilot.

This sounded like a big alarm bell for me because I am one of those low hours pilots who is ready to selfsponsor myself and paying 26K € for a 737 TR and then just through myself in the aviation market.

If this was their answer, with all due respect of Blue Air.. I just imagine what the other companies would say....

RoosterBooster

4th Jan 2007, 09:40

Very good point indeed.

What next, a bit of role reversal, an employee will pay an employer to work!??!?!?!

I guess though people see it as a step backwards to take two forwards, I think.....

SinBin

9th Jan 2007, 13:50

nuclear weapon

9th Jan 2007, 13:59

While your chances go up significantly with a type rating I think it goes up more with a 757 type rating as not many people tend to go for these. All those that I knew did it got jobs in weeks as they told me there is a shortage of them.
The only downsiode is that it is a bit more expensive than 737 or airbus with Astreus you do get 50 hrs on top with which you should be able to go to jet2, thomas cook and the rest of them even BA as long as your combined total hours is 500 or more with a type rating on one of thier aircrafts. If I had the money now thats what I'll do.
Good luck
:= :D :ok:

HighLow

9th Jan 2007, 14:58

Hi Guys and Girls,
i remember reading some months back that there is plenty of online material available on systems of both Airbus and Boeing.

As I am beginning the 738 TR in two months time, it would be great to get my head in the books now just to try and keep ahead of the game.

Can anyone remember the links for this online information, as a google search has not produced any results yet

King Regards
HighLow

viciousviking

9th Jan 2007, 16:57

Hi,

As I am considering getting a 737 rating, I am wondering if anyone has got any tips to where to go having in both quality and cost!

Thanks a lot for your help! :ok:

EI321

9th Jan 2007, 18:00

Im not an expert on this as I have not even applied for a pilot training course, but I know a TR on a 737 will cost you €25000+

P.S. I presume you know that you need the ATPL first?

acuba 290

9th Jan 2007, 21:29

try to get a offer from United in Denver, USA. I know that sometimes even flight to USA with United included if you do rating with company and they must be one of the cheapest to compare with prices in Europe

oompa loompa

11th Jan 2007, 09:48

Bond also do an A320 rating, though it doesn't include the 6 live landings. The info I have prices it at £14000+VAT.

I'd be interested in seeing where this thread goes as I was thinking of posting a similar one myself.

boogie-nicey

11th Jan 2007, 10:01

That seems very interesting Nuclear Weapon but 50 hrs really does seem very bog standard. Would any airline entertain a mere 50 hrs on type for a mid sized jet such as the 757, afterall there are many who claim you'd struggle to get a 737 gig with only a handful of hours on type.

I'm not saying that we need to overkill the 'extra hours' and go for the juicy 500hrs on type but surely a little more should get you noticed as a viable candidate? Would be very interested to hear your answer on this as the 757 is a favourite of mine but the somewhat prohibitive TR cost is forcing me to 737...

manuelvi

11th Jan 2007, 11:54

Done a search found nothing

GECAT Pilot Program on A320

or

Alteon/ My Travel A320 TR on A320 with 150 hours on type with a chance of a job but no guarantees

one is £11K more than the other

Which would you chose?

I'd be interested to hear views from people who've done these schemes

Storm aviation has a TR+300 HRS offer
Twinair has a TR+ Line T in MYAIR (Italian Airline)
CAE offers TR with Vueling possible employment (call CAE Madrid)
PArc Aviation offers TR and it's known to plece theyr candidates
Sigmar aviation also offers TR and is known to offer placement after the course

Hope i helped you
Cheers

PaulW

11th Jan 2007, 12:20

From what I gather from my friends and class mates who have passed through GECAT, GECAT have a 100% placement record; providing you pass the course, that bit is up to you. They have been placed with an airline either before they start or within 2 -6 months. It is the only company I would seriously consider doing a type rating with, but thats because I know what the job prospects are after completing the course from my friends experiences, go with the company you know. I start an a320 type rating with GECAT in February.
My friends and class mates now work for, bmi, Thomas Cook, Easy Jet, Air Malta.
Current price is £500 for a sim assessment. 200 pounds refundable on payment for type rating.
Type rating £17800 two weeks ground school and 11 4 hours sim slots (might be 11 3 hour slots cant remember)
Base training £4800 but often paid for by airline.
And you start with the airlines in question with no bond and DEP money.

I don't think the 150 hours makes too much difference, its still not 500 hours. and Alteon/Mytravel your limited to that one airline.

world

29th Jan 2007, 11:09

Is it possible to get type ratings for old aircrafts such as 707, DC8.....?

Vanpilot

29th Jan 2007, 13:44

What type rating did you get?

Did you get a job because of your type rating?

scroggs

29th Jan 2007, 14:42

Almost certainly, but why?
Scroggs

EchoMike

29th Jan 2007, 15:02

I knew a pilot who had something like 30,000+ hours (I saw his logbooks) before he died (of cancer, at 77), and he had type ratings for everything you could imagine. Over 100 when he last counted.

He complained that if he wanted to keep them all current, he would do nothing each year but take checkride after checkride, and would have no time to fly for revenue. At one time he owned a DC-7F (which was entered by an aluminum extension ladder, and secured by a padlock and hasp on the door!) which he had bought sans engines from a farmer's field for $10,000 - and once the farmer had the money, he advised that the rent was $2,000 a month and kindly getcher blankety blank aeroplane outta my dang field . . . took him eight months, but he did it. He offered me a tour of the airplane, but it wasn't airworthy, so he never did offer me a ride (which was a great relief to me.)

Big, old transport aircraft make me nervous. They have moved to the bottom of the revenue food chain because they are uneconomical to operate (fuel and maintenance hogs), and the type of marginal operators that buy them are the least able to afford the maintenance. That's a bad combination, especially if said operators are in part of the world where you can't get good maintenance even if you can afford it.

My opinion is that unless you have a solid job offer flying one of these "classic" airliners (pronounced "dinosaur"), you might want to spend your money on type ratings for new, safe, well maintained airplanes.

Best Regards,

Echo Mike

world

29th Jan 2007, 19:26

afford it.

My opinion is that unless you have a solid job offer flying one of these "classic" airliners (pronounced "dinosaur"), you might want to spend your money on type ratings for new, safe, well maintained airplanes.

Echo Mike

Thats what I was thinking, historic flights....
Where could you get types for those old rare A/C?

EchoMike

29th Jan 2007, 20:03

Google shows a couple of hits for DC-3 type ratings at about $14,000 . . .

There's an AOPA article dating from 1994 saying the airplane costs $625 an hour to fly, figure at least twice that at today's fuel prices, maybe 3X.

EAA has a type rating program for some of these older airplanes as well - no prices shown, I think you need to bring your own B-17.

I think I'd first try to find someone who is operating one of the aircraft of interest, then ask them how to get a type rating in it. Example - Red Bull owns Franco's (I think) DC-6 and flies it to air shows - contact them, the airplane is magnificently restored.

You sure have picked an expensive hobby - wonder what a B-52 type rating costs if you're not having Uncle Sam pay for it ? (big grin)

Best Regards,

Echo Mike

B200Drvr

30th Jan 2007, 09:06

A trust I fly for in South Africa does T-6 Texan/ Harvard types, will set you back about £3000, but includes aero's. Pan-Am in Miami does 707 types and many airforces that fly the KC 135 use their sim for recurrent training.

G-Dawg

1st Feb 2007, 21:44

Carefull getting a B737 rating you will get nothing without time on type and i'm talking more like 300hrs plus, although 100 is better than nothing. There is far more opportunity on the A320, but again you need some time on type and i agree with an earlier post the 75/76 option with time would be a good one at the mo as they are desperate for guys on this. I did a 73 type, am flying now but its taken a long time and some lucky breaks to get here...Gecat hasn't actually got a 100% track record, but it is very good indeed at placing and have also got a friend with BMI straight from Gecat....Its the good old debate, that will go on for ever me thinks:)

ps no a guy who did astreus 75 with 100hrs got a job straight away, only a couple of months ago....worth considering.

LeChuck

2nd Feb 2007, 11:25

Hello all,

I’ve been searching the forum for info on the Storm A320 Scheme but didn’t found what I was looking for.

Anyone knows how often do the assessment day takes place? I would imagine monthly or every two months, just guessing. And, do they accept low time pilots? Because currently the website states min 1000 hrs. TT, although I’ve heard that they may take you in with less than that. And last, but not least :) , what about their placement record?

Many thanks for the replies.

:ok:

F.O. 737-800

3rd Feb 2007, 18:00

Going back to the general theme of this thread, currently the best place to get a type rating is either as a RyanAir cadet or CTC. The other schemes such as Alteon/My Travel, Bond, Storm ect. are out to get your money and quite often are not providing a quality product to the students. Also the solid job offers which come from these schemes are generally few and far between.

However if you are considering paying for a type rating without an offer of a job i would seriously recommend an A320 rating above all others unless you are willing to pay for a Turbo Prop rating i.e Saab 340 ect.

These are just my opinions which i have formed over the last year since i was in a position where i had finished my training and was looking for that first job.

Cheers:)

Amin

13th Feb 2007, 01:37

hi I have a question regarding MD 80 Type Rating. I have been offered a job in Middle East flying MD 80. I'm holding an FAA license. The airline is going to offer me a type rating. They have their own Type Rating Training Organisation and off course I have to pay for it :hmm: . My question to you guys is that can I do the type rating with my FAA license, or do I need to convert my license to that contry to be able to go throug the type rating course.

I'm getting mixed information regarding this issue. Some say it is OK and some say it is not Ok.

The company operate under ICAO

Any airline captains or FO that can help I would be grateful.
I have posted this in the middle eastern forum too.

Thank you, Amin

Hansard

23rd Mar 2007, 21:27

Heard about three people who failed TR courses. All different airlines, turboprop and jet. Seems to be more common than I thought Are the airlines ruthless and unforgiving? Haven't got that far myself but wonder how many fail and what can catch you out?

Can't imagine anything worse than getting the big break, possibly giving up the day job and then being shown the door.

Why do I ask? Because I wonder if I would make it through a TR course.

Gillespie

23rd Mar 2007, 21:47

It's a question worth asking.
To be honest, only a tiny, tiny percentage fail the TR. I'd imagine the people that do fall at this hurdle are those that think they'll be fed the course on a plate.
I personnally found the type rating the hardest and certainly the most intense part of the training. You're told from day one that you are in charge of your own learning, the instructors are there to facilitate that learning.
Prepare for some hard work. But not many people get this far without the dedication to see it through.
The instructors have high standards, but believe me - they want you to get through (less paper work).
Good luck!

Gillespie

23rd Mar 2007, 21:51

PS. Paper work bit was a joke. Had to point it out, some people take everything literally.

47q

23rd Mar 2007, 22:02

People fail TR's for several reasons. Going from a light to a medium or heavy jet isn't always easy with low hours. Nice and patient instructors can help a lot and stressy and arrogant instructors can do a lot of dammage. Some students have problems with some parts of the TR, like crosswind landings, raw data flying or just a scan problem. Airlines need their students to perform into a certain number of sessions so it doesn't always work out for some people. Some of them fail in the line training and again it depends of the airline to sort their problem out or not. If you pay for your own type rating i think that the airlines will be more demanding than if you had a type rating paid by an airline. But i just think that's the way it is and i might be wrong. Every case is different so it's difficult to say what the real reasons are. I'm not a native English speaker so forgive me my spelling and i'm also one of those pilots who failed a line training. My problem was that i couldn't get the landings right to be safety released so the airline decided to stop the training. There are very few treats about those cases but in a personnal way it's a very difficult thing to handle. Cadets are cadets and everybody has his or her own problems and some of the problems are expensive for airlines. But i know people who failed TR's and got jobs later on on other airlines, it's just a matter of going on and improving your skills.

dartagnan

24th Mar 2007, 11:02

t/rating is not easy, it was very hard for me and I did not enjoy the course, lot of new things to learn in 5 weeks.
On the airbus, you have only 7 sessions of 4 hours to know the plane.
some people need more!
again, the hours given by TRTOs are minimum hours if all OK.

if you have now some problems to land a plane in a X wind , would be better to rent an aircraft, and learn to fly properly before spending 35'000 euro in a simulator because your examiner will expect you to fly safe before to see you transporting 170 souls on board.

3bars

10th Apr 2007, 14:31

Hi :O

Given current aviation conditions, which type rating would you suggest - A320 or 757?:ugh:

Thanks

stevehudd

10th Apr 2007, 14:45

I would say the A320 based on how many airlines in the uk that operate them.

i had a bizarre dream that i saw an A321 take off and get taken over by the computer and flew out of control taking people on a rollercoaster ride which scared the beejezzers out of me, i know boeing are making FBW now but i just get worried about the computer taking the controls like what happened with an Emirates 777 a while back. I love Airbus and boeing equally btw.

heebeegb

10th Apr 2007, 14:45

one fading away, the other selling every day.

MikeAlphaBravo

10th Apr 2007, 15:32

Lots of 75 jobs at the moment, or so it seems. Everyone I know who has recently completed a 75 rating now has a job. Also, its a proper aeroplane, not like the 320! ;)

bri1980

10th Apr 2007, 15:58

Surely the best choice is the one that maximises your employment prospects with the airlines you can/want to work for. For example, if your dream job is at Jet2, an A320 rating won't be a lot of use!

Twin2040

10th Apr 2007, 16:04

bit of a gamble - A320 still selling well and in production. As former 757 driver - now just going to Bizjet - and I can you there a lots of B757 and 76 jobs around - however many companies still differ between 75 and 76 - no 76 jobs with 75 experience only - fantastic Airplanes they are ...........
Even better - make you future employer pay ..........

BYMONEK

10th Apr 2007, 21:16

stevehudd

Care to elaborate on that comment? I've heard nothing regarding any computer wobblies on the B777, especially an Emirates one. Unlike the A320, Boeing retains Pilot authority logic on its Aircraft so i'm intrigued by your remark.

BYMONEK

Amin

10th Apr 2007, 23:38

If you want to spend money on a TR here is the list, Airbus 320, Boeing 737NG, ATR, BAe 146, Dash 8 Q400. if you wan to go the airline way. These airplanes are hot in the market at the moment. But it can change,,,how knows.

BlueRobin

11th Apr 2007, 06:51

Within the UK at least, there aren't that many ATR operators. Sadly Woodford no longer make 146s so the operators are drying up there also.

Mohit_C

14th Apr 2007, 08:48

Hi people,
I see many threads regarding type rating. Can someone explain me what are the different type ratings and how does it work?

Thanks.

yorky drifter

17th Apr 2007, 20:38

Guys/Gals,
Have many people who have paid for a type rating made contacts as a result of the course who have helped you to gain employment?

Just wondered if the courses can help in ways other than the obvious.

cheers

the drifter :ok:

manuelvi

17th Apr 2007, 22:42

Ended TR in late november.
had 5 airline contacts in the last 20 days

cheers

MV

Pstatic

18th Apr 2007, 10:19

Thats Exciting.
So, How far have you gotten?! Did you go to the Aer Lingus interview or is it still the line training package at Atlasjet?!:8
Cheers
Pstatic

manuelvi

18th Apr 2007, 10:36

Still with atlas as aer lingus seems to be quiet at the moment.
cheers

pilootstewardess

29th Apr 2007, 11:31

Hi there! For the ones who had the TR320 from Randhem in Minneapolis; I was wondering in which hotels you stayed and which neighbourhood. And what's the name of the hotel that Randhem offers for €55?
Thanks!

lowflare

29th Apr 2007, 13:09

When doing a type rating course, one should be very careful regarding two important aspects. One, current market. Two, personal experience. India is booming currently, meaning B737 gives good chances. I did my TR last year endorsed it in FAA lic. It came as a shock when I got invited to B737 position with large Indian operator. At the time it was more than a year since I did my TR, and I had 0 hrs experience on type. Had to turn it down, though. I am walking on the greener grass right now. My assumption is that I was invited because I have 500+ hours airline flying on a different type and more than 2000TT, bizjets, tprops... So it is all a merger of different factors in order to be offered job as O hrs on type. On the other hand, I strongly recommend A320 to low hours guys/ girls because EU market will, and already takes low hour A320 pilots. Sound judgment, patience and remember: never, NEVER fly for free.

lowflare

ACP

29th Apr 2007, 20:23

A320 Type rating with no hours on type = NO JOB...except if you are willing to pay for your experience!
I had to pay for 300 hours on type before having a chance to get paid.
There are lots of A320 type rated pilots waiting for a chance to join a SELF FUNDED line training. Simply ask Manuelvi....I am pretty sure he's gonna give 10500$US to Atlasjet to fly 150 hours, with no job promise (once he'll get the visa in 2 months).

A type rating is very expensive: be aware that it's useless without experience on the type and even if you're willing to pay to get into the right seat, it's still hard to get in!

Anyway the summer season has started and most airlines are set for now. If you want to pay for line training, it's gonna be next year...

:}

SinBin

30th Apr 2007, 11:55

Being a turncoat and having persued a self funded line training on MYT as far as signing up to it ( I bailed out after susccessful selection at GECAT) and then flirted with GECAT, bailed out of that too as someone offered to pay me a salary to do my TR and a permy job to boot. I now have changed my mind with these paying to work schemes. Have a little patience, apply to companies who would recruit inexperienced folk, not to everyone, which is a waste of time. I have managed to find a job which TR and LT is all paid for; this paying to work lark is utter madness! Be patient network like never before and don't pay for ANY line training. TR self sponsored is one thing but don't pay to work the line. Every airline is taking its example from the airlines who do this, MYT, FR etc.. It's wrong and is pure exploitation. Choose carefuly which TRTO you go to as well. Some give no help in placements and a TR with zero hours is worth diddly.

Alas there are some airlines who think this is wrong too and thank goodness. I'm joining one of them. To be honest a huge number of airlines are now recruiting people direct with no TR. As a result the likes of GECAT have a massive backlog in placing their swimmers.

manuelvi

30th Apr 2007, 12:04

Simply ask Manuelvi....I am pretty sure he's gonna give 10500$US to Atlasjet to fly 150 hours, with no job promise

Hi.
Well what you are saying it's not totally true since yes...it's difficult to get a job without hrs on type but not impossible.
All depends also from were you did your training and what are you willing to do in order to obtain what you are dreaming.
It's true, i signed with atlas as last chance but in the last month i was contacted by other 4 airlines not asking me to pay to fly.
I'm still talking with these airlines so it's not so sure i'll pay for my line training.

About atlas again, there is the possibility to join the company after the "training" and if you are willing to move to jeddah you'll get very nicely payed and have the possibility to get the 10500$ back pretty soon.

It's a personal choice, i understand who prefers to wait and get in with luck, determination without time problems but we are not all the same, different ages,backgrounds etc...

A type rating is very expensive: be aware that it's useless without experience on the type and even if you're willing to pay to get into the right seat, it's still hard to get in!

It's hard to get in if you are an idiot, i mean if you got your TR simply because you payed but you don't have a clue on how the airplane flies and believe me, there's a lot of people out there which correspond to this description.
You can pay for a line training yes but you need to be able to fly to do that, it's just not enough to pay to get in fortunately.

cheers

audioaero

1st May 2007, 15:44

Guys'n gals,

Has anyone opted for the cortporate Jet TR route? thinking of doing a HS125-800 rating. Anyone know/recommend places for a JAR rating?? I nearly choked with the prices they are charging in UK! only know of US of A or Dubai.

potkettleblack

1st May 2007, 18:44

Tread very carefully. You are potentially trying to enter one of the toughest niches in the industry where invariably jobs are hardly ever advertised and the majority of jobs are filled via word of mouth. A type rating will do little if you are not known to the chief pilot or another senior member of the team.

audioaero

2nd May 2007, 09:01

Thanks for the info PKB. Sadly, this is a fact of life, its who you know not what you know. But I figured, having a rating would be one step further than having nowt. Doing the rating would at least prove that one has the ability & the commitment, albeit at a cost, of pursuing a career in aviation. Dubai seems favourable for costs at the mo.

Will

dfspilot

2nd May 2007, 09:51

would have to agree with potkettleblack. i asked this same question and believe me , most bizjet operators are totally against sstr and so if you send off a cv with type rating on it and no hours IT WILL END UP IN THE BIN. also if you say you will pay for your type rating on a cv that will also see it end up in the bin. i know its not what either you or me want to hear but it is the reality. its catch 22 no type and no hours= no job. type and no hours = no job. perseverance and building a network = takes longer but they are hiring because they value you and your personality/ ability. this is only my take on the subject, everyone has their own opinion. no matter what i wish you the best of luck.

potkettleblack

2nd May 2007, 11:43

dfs mentioned the magical word which is networking. Very few make it through to a job with luck and being in the right place at the right time. On these forums you tend to get a very biased view of the job market with lots of tales of successes and the usual ranting that comes from those unfortunates. Most don't make it at all and give up. If you persevere then you are already ahead of the game. The amount of guys I bumped into that are unmotivated and are totally clueless about getting a job egged me on loads in my search.

Unfortunately few ever think about how to get a job until after they have completed their training, by which time they may have a CPL from here an IR from there and an MCC in a kingair cardboard bomber box done somewhere cheap next to the black stump. During the course of their training they would have bumped into no one of any significance in helping them get a job which surely is the whole aim of the exercise in the first place.

So how to network? Well some find it more natural than others. Firstly you need to recognise the fact that us pilots are actually a small minority in the scheme of things. Something like 1% of the population or less would be my guess. That means you just don't bump into airline pilots and training captains willy nilly. You need to seek them out. Certain airfield bars tend to attract some, some offer their services as FI's, others have their own aircraft and fly for fun. Others might do a bit of consultancy work on the side teaching things like MCC courses, JOC's, JOT's and any other acronyms you might like to think up. Others love a round of golf and can be found propping up the 19th. Sports clubs can also be a good source of meeting these folks. The aim of the game is trying to meet these people.

Op's jobs have worked for many in the past. Not necessarily being a despatcher but what about trying the huge number of corporate operators based around the smaller airfields like BOH, Bristol and the likes. There are also the medivac companies who might have an office job going that can be a good way to get your foot in the door whilst earning a buck. There has been many a pilot that has been tactically caught with their head in a jeppy plate just as the chief pilot walks past their desk which then leads to the inevitable "oh I never knew you had your flying licences"....

Finally if you aren't even getting interviews then ask yourself some tough questions? Is it anything to do with me? Did I go to cr*p schools - some airlines prefer certain schools and that is a reality that few like to admit. Is my CV cr*p or missing vital selling points like I am immediately available for work? Is my cover letter cr*p? The latter few points can hopefully be resolved with getting some professional advice. There are a couple of pilots offering these sorts of services that are discussed reasonably regularly here on pprune if you search them out. Never underestimate the importance of a cover letter. It can be a real selling point and get across why you have a connection to a particular country (if the job you are going for is away from your home), that you are immediately available etc etc. There are loads of good examples out there using google search of professional cover letters and formats including decent CV's as well that are uncluttered and fill less than 1 page.

Good luck.

audioaero

2nd May 2007, 12:46

A heartfelt thanks for the words of wisdom PKB & dfspilot! I'm still determined to get ahead & agreed, networking is the way forward, it is an insestuious industry & I am hoping to wedge my way in somehow. Age & time are not on my side but passion (lets face it how many other things spring to mind, that you can have so much fun with your clothes on!) cetainly is. Presently Im still in the IT sector - one of the other quick ways of legally making quick cash, but dont necessarily want to wste money by doing a TR. several years ago I attended on of those Professiona Pilot conferences & the guy from the CAA said you'd be better off betting on a horse! so there we go....
Watch this space for any updates.....

Will :)

Mohit_C

2nd May 2007, 14:14

Can someone explain me in general what Type Rating is and how does it work?

potkettleblack

2nd May 2007, 14:21

You have asked that twice now. A little bit of self help via the stickies at the top of the forum will ensure you go a long way in this industry.

dfspilot

2nd May 2007, 14:48

here here pkb, mohit c if you dont know, do your research as does everyone else. i could write about type ratings for a week!!!!!!!!!! go visit boeing and airbus sites for a start and go to type rating organizations.

Mohit_C

3rd May 2007, 08:35

Okay I had a look at some packages of Type Rating and more or less understand it. Hell they're dahm expensive. By what it seems like, €15'900 for a single rating seems a lot. Is there any airline that still pays for the Type Rating?

VFE

3rd May 2007, 18:34

Hi folks,

A few mates and I were discussing the trend for self-funded type ratings over a few pints the other night and wondered how many out there were:

A) Suitably financed to do it and would

B) Agreed with the concept but sadly couldn't afford it

C) Disagreed with the concept and to hell with airlines

So, it's pretty simple for you now, honoured reader, post your answer below, with a brief line (or nine) detailing your reasoning!

Cheers,

VFE.

dartagnan

3rd May 2007, 19:04

ask your future employer to pay for it, or knock at the next door.(Like in any job!!!).

adverse-bump

3rd May 2007, 19:19

after getting my atpl, i was stuck firmly on C, after serveral months working as a FI i'm now thinking of doing one.

Superpilot

3rd May 2007, 19:38

If I can hold on to my current non flying job after training, I should be in a position to be able to buy a type rating within 6 months to a year.

However I'm still going to bank with option C.) but with the following exceptions:

a.) The outfit requiring the rating is reputable (there are a few)
b.) 2 years passing by without a flying job.

Deano777

3rd May 2007, 21:41

Personally I think it is a massive massive risk to enter into a TR without a firm job offer, I am sure there are plenty of people who are willing to share a horror story, I know of at least 2.

USE THE RUDDERS

4th May 2007, 07:42

After over 2-3 years of looking and nothing, now thinking of taking the plunge but financing the rating would be extremely differcult and put a huge burdon on my family.
I totally disagree with the concept but for someone who is over 30 it may be the only way to go.
A FI rating is not a possiblity for me due to the low pay and to be honest instructing doesn't appeal to me.
Friends of mine have done ratings and are now successfully employed but it is still a hell of a gamble to take without a guaranteed job offer.

skyworks

4th May 2007, 08:03

I totally agree with you. I'm in the same position than "use the rudders". I was on "c" but now I'm thinking to take a SSTR.

Token Bird

4th May 2007, 08:07

Definitely option C. I know plenty of people who have secured jobs without having to pay for a type rating, some straight out of training, others after 2-3 years of instructing.

What you have to realise is that each person that pays for their own rating is destroying the industry a tiny bit more for the people who come along after them. I know that there's very much a 'look out for number 1' ethos among potential pilots. Unfortunately the fact that those who went before us held this attitude has screwed it up for us now,

TB

G SXTY

4th May 2007, 08:25

C.

Token Bird is right - we are only having this discussion because earlier wannabes have been naive and/or desperate enough to stump up for their own TR. And if airlines are given the chance to pass £20k of training costs back to the applicant, it's hardly surprising if it sets a dangerous precedent.

What next - paying for your own uniform? medicals? drinking water? Oh, hang on - that already happens. I wonder why . . . :rolleyes:

Chinchilla.612

4th May 2007, 08:52

Got to be C.

If the company is worth working for they will pay for a type rating, and if they won't....well enough said!

Good luck to those willing to pay to go to work though....it's just not for me.

Chinchilla.

VFE

4th May 2007, 11:12

after serveral months working as a FI i'm now thinking of doing one.
Has instructing now began to bore you or do you find the money difficult hence your possible decision to splash out? I can envisage a time (very soon) where FI's will earn more than junior jet FO's.
What you have to realise is that each person that pays for their own rating is destroying the industry a tiny bit more for the people who come along after them.
Totally agree.

VFE.

PS: G SXTY - Long time no see, how are you these days?

Phil Brockwell

4th May 2007, 11:20

Without wanting to light blue touch paper, in our case the preference of employing crews with a TR is a timescale issue, not a financial one. The time it takes to type rate a crew member is often longer than a crews notice period. The trend at the entry level crew market is to bugger off with very little notice when one of the big boys offers our crews jobs. We had one situation a while back when the crew was offered a job on a Sunday if he could start 8 days later. For us we pay more to a TR'd crew, so there is little financial advantage, it's more about keeping continuity of crewing.

Phil

shootfromthehip

4th May 2007, 13:13

I'm currently employed and when I was looking for that first job did consider paying for a TR.

I felt that having completed my ATPL with good grades, hour built, sent off CV's plus making contacts etc etc; I wasn't getting any breaks............... I was desperate, so I was prepared to take a gamble and pay for a TR (737). As it happened I got a couple of interviews and subsequent job. Friends of mine who did pay for TR did actually get jobs.

BUT....... Also friends who didn't pay for TR also got jobs......:D

My answer to the original question is.......... as the market is so good at the moment I would definitely NOT pay for a TR. Good companies will bond new pilots and I think that is fair as it is up front and the descision is with the new recruit.

It's easy for me to preach as my first 2 companies bonded me but I honestly feel that at the moment, if you hold out, you'll get that first job without being screwed for the cost of TR.

Good luck to all the Wannabes:ok:

theWings

4th May 2007, 13:24

The problem is that, naturally, there is a huge difference between the value placed on (read: employability of) a low-houred fATPL and someone with 500 jet time. Common sense dictates that making a move after a year or so is the smart career choice.

I paid for a bizjet TR once I was fairly sure a job would follow. I figured that I didn't want to be unfair to my employer if I chose to split within a year or two. As it turns out, I'm pretty pleased with where I am and will be staying for quite a while. Because they seem to value me and my experience, my company are talking about moving me onto another Type (yes, it's bigger, faster, has more buttons, etc, etc!) at their expense. Everyone's happy ever after!

And for all those of you blaming people for paying for a TR, perhaps you should consider them the symptom, not the illness? Do you have similar issues with doctors who invest 7yrs of their life up front and leave med school way in debt?

As far as self-funded TRs are concerned, no one really wants to a) take the risk or b) so called "ruin" the industry, but if you've good reason to believe that it will secure you a particular job then it must be an option, more so if you're a certain age and need to crack on with it all.

The Wings

VFE

4th May 2007, 14:35

I can understand guys who are pushing 40, and have been struggling for years to find an airline job doing it but those who probably go into their training with a view to self funding a TR require a word methinks. It is a shame we're all not more united on this but I guess that same self(ish) interest got us all into the game in the first place.

VFE.

G SXTY

4th May 2007, 18:32

I couldn't have put it better myself VFE. I have a lot of sympathy for guys who have got their CPL/IR, exhausted every other avenue in trying to find a job, and are prepared to take a gamble on a type rating. ANY self-funded flying training is a calculated risk, and buying a TR is simply taking things to their logical conclusion.

However, even those guys must know they are being exploited by the airlines. The simple fact (simplistic if you like) is that if no-one was prepared to pay up-front for a TR, airlines would have no choice but to accept applicants without one. Unfortunately, this being the real world, there will always be those who'll pay just about anything, and accept virtually any deal, just to get a foot on the ladder. Twas ever so.

I'll accept the reality that the vast majority of pilots will have to self-fund their licence. I'll accept that an airline paying for a TR is making an expensive investment that benefits the pilot as much as the company, and that it's not unreasonable to be bonded for a period accordingly.

Call me old-fashioned, but I don't accept it's right that candidates should be expected to spend many thousands of pounds - on top of their licence costs - just to buy a 'qualification' that the airline would have to pay for anyway - if the candidate wasn't prepared to do it for them.

VFE - check your pms. :ok:

Mohit_C

5th May 2007, 08:53

So in general you guys are saying not to buy TR unless the airline specifies so. Btw, where abouts can you do a TR?

chlong

5th May 2007, 09:26

mohit c , this is the third time you have asked about TR . you said you did research, well obviously not. WHERE CAN YOU BUY A TYPE RATING, WHY NOT GOOGLE TYPE RATING PROVIDERS OR DO YOU WANT EVERYONE TO TALK ON A SUBJECT THAT HAS BEEN DONE TO DEATH. GO DO MORE RESEARCH. you are not showing pilot potential with these questions.:= :yuk: :{ :E
BTW OPTION C, EVERYONE HAS PAID ENOUGH FOR THEIR TRAINING ALREADY.WHAT NEXT PAY TO WORK.

Mohit_C

5th May 2007, 12:52

chlong, I guess I don't need the CAPS. I'm sure you were in my shoes at one stage! Let me specify a bit more, if an airline decides to do a type rating for a junior pilot, will they send them to the actual place where TR takes place (i.e. in Toulousse) or will they do it at their own base?

chlong

5th May 2007, 15:04

it depends on the airlines capability to conduct type rating, what their sim schedule is, with opc/lpc going on. like aer lingus at the moment they have an A320 sim but it is busy 24 hours a day so they have sent a lot of guys to toulousse (particularly the low hour guys ) as they cant wait on their own sim to become available. with aer lingus this scenario could go on for the next year or so. but they only have 1 sim, BA / AIR FRANCE HAVE MANY MORE BUT THEY CAN GET CAUGHT SHORT TOO. RYANAIR NEARLY KEEP cae AND sas GOING ALL THE TIME.hope this answers your question.

Mohit_C

5th May 2007, 15:39

Yes that helps. The reason why I asked that is because I was considering the accommodation, length of stay, etc... because they're things which you must think about before hand.

chlong

5th May 2007, 16:27

in answer to how long, budget for two months but is dependant on type and how long you have to wait for base check if this is not done by your employer airline.

Fatboy Ginge

13th May 2007, 14:16

Whilst I may be a "Wannabe" I was looking at the posts on here and decided to ask the following questions.

Assuming that I have gained my fATPL and that I am, for whatever reason still in a financial position to purchase my type rating what would peoples suggestions be for said type rating.

Lets also leave out the differences of opinion about buying your type rating.

I'm assuming that merely going out and paying for a 747 TR is going to be a total waste of money as I can't see that there are many airlines who are going to say "Here you go Mr Newly Qualified Pilot. Get yourself comfortable in that right hand seat and fly my long haul aircraft for me."

So, what would peoples recommendations be to go for.

Deano777

13th May 2007, 14:34

Well whilst you may want opinions to be left out regarding buying one I would still say that if you buy one without a job offer you are taking a MASSIVE risk. But it's your money so why should I care.

I think it's pretty obvious here in the UK, the Airbus 320 or 737NG seems to be the type to go for, you may consider a 757 TR but it's all about your choice, personally I would opt for a 320 TR purely because of the amount of operators in the UK of this type

D.

Fatboy Ginge

13th May 2007, 14:42

Well whilst you may want opinions to be left out regarding buying one I would still say that if you buy one without a job offer you are taking a MASSIVE risk. But it's your money so why should I care.

That is a VERY VERY good point, one which I hadn't considered.

Another question I didn't ask was how many TR's can you maintain as current on your licence.

smoothkpilot

13th May 2007, 15:09

Hey Fatboy Ginge
I am in the position you referred to. I have my Frozen ATPL plus FI and MCC and am considering my next move. I currently have about 550 hours and instruct PPL part-time, I work full time to pay the bills.
I am considering doing a Type Rating within the next year if nothing comes my way from the usual routes. I have come to this decision though only if I can get a job offer based on me providing the funding for my Type Rating. Over the past years in this aviation game I have managed to develop a few links. I think doing a Type Rating without a job offer is a HUGE Risk. Better still if you can stretch that bit further financially get yourself some hours on type whether its 50 or 100. OK its not a huge amount of experience but its better than nothing. See www.randhem.com and no I don't work for them just considering going there. Two friends of mine went there and both got jobs soon after they finished.
In terms of the type of aircraft to go for it would have to be a 737 or A320, both are very common in Europe with the former leading the way. Everyone I know who has paid for their type rating is currently flying for an airline. Despite this, be aware this is a huge risk and to maximise your chances of being put forward for employment you will really have to shine on your course. Many of the providers of Type rating training have links with airlines and can recommend you, so do as much preparation before you start (e.g get a hold of the CBT and manuals for your chosen aircraft before you start the course and practice, get used to the procedures etc.)
I hope this helps, no doubt there are many out there who disgaree with this subject but PM me if you want any more info.
All the Best
Smoothk:cool: :ok:

avrodamo

14th May 2007, 07:50

When i paid for my TR i considered both the 737 and the A320. When i looked at doing this (Jan 06) i came to the following conclusion. The main operators of the A320 at that time were the likes of Easyjet, Monarch, First Chioce, BMed etc and i did not feel that any of those airlines were going to take a low hours guy straight onto the jet. The 737 operators were Jet2, BMIBaby, Astreus and FlyGlobespan. These had a proven history of taking low hour pilots, and so for me the decision was easy, and sure enough i ended up flying for one of these operators.
In saying this, it's quite fluid, and you do have to look at what is going on. 6 months later things were quite different. A 757 rating would have been the one to go for, as both Globespan and Jet2 were struggling to find type rated pilots. You really do have to do your research, before you commit with a large amount of cash.
I am sure where you complete a SSTR has a bearing on it too. I did mine at GECAT and in the 2 months i was there, they were completing selection for major airlines and low houred guys were landing jobs every week. They dont guarantee jobs, but they do AIM to place all pilots they train. Whilst i was there 2 guys doing an A320 rating were taken on straight to an airline. The airline literally just snapped them up. They called GECAT and asked for 2 pilots, and that was that. I had to wait 6 months for a position, but all 4 of us on my SSTR course went to the same airline.
As for a risk, well i think this sums it up. During my airline interview the Chief Pilot interviewing me asked how much i had paid for my type rating. After i told him his reply was "You should have done it with us. You could have saved yourself 5 grand", to which i replied "If i did not have the type rating i would not be sitting here". He thought for a couple of seconds and then said "That's a very good point".

dartagnan

14th May 2007, 09:50

if you choose to go for a type rating (I don't recommend it, see below), do it in a big school like flight safety, CAE,...
these TRTO are regularly contacted by airlines to provide pilots and have contract with them.You pay little bit more, but they can help you, and will tell you where to apply.

in 6 months-1 year, airlines will be short of type rated pilots.If you are in your 20-30yo, why pay for a type rating?.

boogie-nicey

14th May 2007, 10:11

Nice to hear you got a job out of your TR Avrodamo.

Though I must confess to being somewhat of an advocate of the SSTR (as long as it's affordable) I do also know of one chap who got his TR and then waited for quite some time before getting a break. Admittedly this was a couple of years ago, nevertheless SSTR isn't a guaranteed route for everyone and though it helps get you further up the queue it can still be long wait from that point onwards. Maybe it's personality that factors into it too and you need to be a nice all round character or simply just in the wrong place at the wrong time as far as recruitment is concerned.

However one thing I do find alarming is the number of people who resign their jobs which simply compounds the risk further. If you can get through the mill gaining your JAR exams and the subsequent CPL/IR why do people leave their jobs at a drop of the hat? At least attempt to negogiate some unpaid leave from work or 'work from home', surely try something to hang onto your job and don't become so mesmerised by the fictional prospect of immediate employment post SSTR. Plan ahead of time there's more chance of other parties agreeing when they have ample notice and if not then you know where you stand ahead of schedule and not some last minute surprise.

Fatboy Ginge

14th May 2007, 12:22

Well I do have a fallback plan in place for when I finally get the cash together and take the plunge to do my training. Being an LGV driver means that I can work once I've completed training and start to service some of the debt I've managed to rack up.

For any wannabes who are thinking about what to do if the phone call doesn't come the moment you qualify then perhaps look at taking at least your class 2 (Category C) licence. It might not pay as much as flying but most agencies will pay you between £8 - £10 per hour... Just a thought.

boogie-nicey

14th May 2007, 12:53

Fatboy_ginge .... good tip, hmmm at least it'll help tie over some wannabes with a bit of cash whilst waiting for the phone to ring :ok:

Mondeoman

14th May 2007, 16:20

I am also considering a type rating on either the 737 or A320, I have done some research and can find plenty of TRTO who offer 737 and 50/100hours on type. I havent found one yet that does A320 +100 hours? A320 is my preference, anybody got any suggestions?

IRISHPILOT

14th May 2007, 18:31

Yes, definately good to have a plan B.

Actually, the mentioned 747 rating would most certainly give you a job, even FAA would do (making this under USD10 000). Have a look at AAI threads on here.

737 worked for me, plenty of jobs around right now, but try to get hours on type with the rating... Maybe worth checking Wizzair too...

good luck! IP

hardcase

15th May 2007, 04:04

firstly i would agree with some of the posters, buying a SSTR with no job offer is a big risk. Secondly if you are going to buy one why is it you only talk about B737/A320.....surely if you have no commercial time, this includes instructors why wouldnt you think about a Turbo Prop TR. More operators and they are always willing to take on new to type pilots with low hours.

I was 32, had 1200 hrs TT, was a PPL instructor for 18months...and had to decide....be a CPL/IR FI or SSTR.

14 months ago I did an ATR TR, spent 2-3months still instructing waiting for a job and bingo, RHS and very nice too. Now yes there are people who will wait less or longer after a TR course, but that is the luck of the draw.

I hated having to pay for the course but have no regrets now, as i approach those 500hrs multi crew hours to get my green book.

My point being, widen your field of vision....yes we all like the idea of a nice shiny jet, but hey getting your hands dirty flying a well kitted TP is not a bad way to gain some experience.

Best of luck with the choice
:ok:

boogie-nicey

15th May 2007, 10:06

Hardcase, that's an interesting perspective you highlighted with reference to the Turboprop. However as a matter of interest which providers facilitate TP training? Of course I know of numerous organisations relating to B737/A320 but few if any spring to mind regarding Turboprops.

Anyway congratulations on gaining employment, enjoy....:ok:

oompa loompa

15th May 2007, 12:21

Interesting thread. Similar position myself; considering the various options, and have also been given the advice that a TR on it's own is not hugely useful.

There are various schemes out there (sigmar, storm, etc), and more appear to be being set up, whereby you pay for the TR and time on type. These arrangements cost about £10-14k more than just the TR (of course, you're paying to fly a commercial flight...but that's beside the point :hmm: ).

Now, the thought goes, would it not be cheaper to offer ones services for free for 150h (say) rather than actually have to pay for the flying? it seems logical to me, and I'd frankly be happy to do it - probationary period and all that - but I was wondering how to go about it? Any ideas?

OL