Exodus from Skippers (Merged)

[Icarus2001]

Anything you want in life can be...

FAST - CHEAP - GOOD

Simply pick any two, you cannot have all three.

[bazza stub]

Simply pick any two, you cannot have all three

Sure you can, they do.....and whatever bad things may happen as a result are to be dealt with then and there true to reactionary management style. :ugh:

I like the your rule tho icarus :ok:

[Long John Silver]

Lets look around the WA dance floor....

QF is waltzing with Network...:O

VB is doing the tango with Skywest...:O

Skippers is....:rolleyes:

[Mr. Hat]

..buying toilet paper and new underwear

[VH-UFO]

That maybe the case Mr Hat, but the underwear is second hand and the toilet paper is new; or was that the other way around?:E

[The Green Goblin]

Don't worry, skippers will be tying up with Tiger soon enough :hmm:

[gas-chamber]

Green G would that mean both parties would be getting exactly what they deserve?

[Icarus2001]

So has MC gone back to being a line pilot? If so who took over as MFO?

[BAE146]

skippers will be tying up with Tiger soon enough

a marriage made in heaven.

[bazza stub]

So has MC gone back to being a line pilot? If so who took over as MFO?

From a buddy that works there, MC is a line jockey but still does the job of MFO until they find a replacement. No word on how that is going, but no anouncements have been made.

I also hear they might lose the parking area across the way soon, where are dashs gonna park?


Tie up with tiger? Perfect!! :D

[Beyond tha Threshold]

Are they having problems finding someone suitable?

SEEK - Chief Pilot / Flight Operations Manager Job in Perth (http://www.seek.com.au/Job/chief-pilot-flight-operations-manager/in/perth/18857631)

[Soar2384]

Anyone else hear that the chief pilot position has been filled?

[metrodashbrazconkie]

Yep, filled from within the company.

[Icarus2001]

IC to move offices I believe, so a new FSM?

[Jedi]

havent been round for a while, but didnt IC get the 'no go' for FSM from CASA? seems strange that they would approve CP position:confused:

On another note, how long do we think they will hold the coastal routes operating a braz in place of a F50??:ok:

[sled_driver71]

bout 5 yrs as per the contract i reckon.

can a braz or Dash-8 take dpl's or animals in the cargo bay?

[myshoutcaptain]

Braz cargo bay not heated - so only deceased animals.:8

[Low and Fast]

Any info out there about Skippers anybody ?

e.g Are they recruiting any time soon ?

[Riding the Goat]

http://www.fwa.gov.au/documents/agreements/fwa/AE884151.pdf

Pg 50 - does this look like a B Scale to anyone else!!! They would have to be some of the lowest base rates in Aus?

New captains going onto a different rate and only getting a payrise onto the old rate after 4 years, and its not really a pay rise as the base rate remains the same, only the productivity increases. Interesting to read else where that the productivity component can be removed at any time at the discretion of the company in regards to individual employees.

If the new aircraft at Skywest and Network weren't enough of a reason to leave this might be.

Who signed YES to this rubbish?

[sled_driver71]

Ladies and Gents what are you doing? Grooming yourselves for J*?

Skippers is a joke!

[metrodashbrazconkie]

Who signed YES to this rubbish?

I was told most people didnt vote the first time, because they were affraid someone in management might find out which way they voted. Maybe this time they just voted yes thinking it might save their a$$es.:rolleyes:

Aren't Skippers going to start weekend flight soon?? The lifestyle argument has just begun to look very shaky I recon.

[Jeff Ucker]

So whats the latest on the whereabouts of that dodgy ex CP in M.C?

He would definitely have something to do with this!!

Some people never learn :rolleyes:

[Captain Biggles84]

MC about to retire as has made a bucket load from taking money from all these muppets.... (thanks DADDY):ugh::ugh::D:D

Thanks for you contribution in lowering wages and condition u bunch of winners!



YouTube - Fast Track Pilot Training - Gavin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjV1Zc2kWYk&feature=related)

YouTube - Fast Track Pilot Training - Marcel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOjg9zVc9PU&feature=related)

YouTube - Fast Track Pilot Training - Shane (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKx9PMDDxqU&feature=related)

YouTube - Fast Track Pilot Training - Sam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnxxEOjZPH0&feature=related)


there are plenty more great films about these top jocks and their stella careers..:ok::ok:

[Roxy_Chick_1989]

Surely those videos arent doing anything positive for the company.

[Mr. Hat]

Biggles, whilst I fully understand/support your frustration with the whole cadet/fast track concept. I think its important to recognise that it is the system that is failing us. These young lads are just doing what the system allows them to do. I don't think we should be giving them individually a hard time. If you work with them like it or not they are your equal and you must treat them as such. Furthermore they are part of your team and its your job to extend your hand.

I'm for GA hard yards through and through having done my share of 15 years of it. I think its the ultimate litmus test for those that want to be a professional aviator. Its a good apprenticeship. I do however accept that not everyone can pack up the car or do what I and others have done. I fly with Captains of my same age that have not even seen a 210 and were fast tracked their whole life. Everything fell into place and they were having hotel parties with hostesses while I was drum refuelling on a remote station. They are excellent operators and top blokes.

Having said all that I resent people/system that are trying to spin dollars and lower conditions via these schemes. They use catch phrases like "train them from day one in our culture" "avoid bad habits picked up in ga". Its total rubbish and Nick Xenophon knows it. I suggest you have a read, if you haven't already, of John Lamings submission to the Senate Inquiry. He sums it up better than anyone.

All the best and good luck to the pilots.

By the way I'm not having a crack at you just thought I'd remind you that were all in it together.

[metrodashbrazconkie]

"train them from day one in our culture" "avoid bad habits picked up in ga".

Particularly untrue in at least one or two cases.......:ugh:

[Captain Biggles84]

Mr Hat

Whilst i can see the point you are making, and for the most of it i would like to think that this is the case in my current place of work. However, I still think you missing the key reason in me pointing out these muppets and MC the massive thief.

Fast Track was set up with the support of MC and various other Skippers employees. It takes money off these idiots (or mummy and daddy ) and whilst it does their training in a timely manner they then somehow get an interview with Skippers.... Give me a break. They get an interview cos the chief and his cronies help set the company up. Skippers then offers them a cadetship and they pay up $55K for a Dash or Braz endo plus extra IFR training (this is ontop of CPL costs!!!). Forgive me for puking in my lounge room. So your are telling me that your're 15 or so years in GA is worth not getting a shot at a chance to progress onto a multi crew turbine from GA all because their numbers are filled because MC likes a bit of extra money on the side.
These muppets have every resource (internet/other pilots etc) available to research and find out the career path a pilot can go down. Because this ( Fast Track) is the easiest option as it saves them from entering the real world, slogging a living in the bush earning hours, gaining invaluable command time and life experience in general. ("its all too hard I choose Fast Track yeah!!) It's very hard leaving mummy and daddy and the big smoke.

So back to my point. Your 15 years in GA is invaluable. But now you have to slot in behind these kids as an F/O and and listen to their BS about their take on life as a "pilot".. again i just spewed in my lounge room.

Also two of the "You Tube" winners were employed up North for all of 2 seconds and life got a bit to tough. So some how decided to use a lazy $55k that was lying around and take away positions from people that have spent quality time up in places like Broome, Kunners, Derby, Halls Creek, Darwin, Maningrida, Alice, Cairns, Horn.. the list goes on. But now everyone may as well tuck in for another year of slogging cos MC needed an extra patio out the back and some people have a lazy $55K lying around and don't like wet season weather

And people wonder why we are having a senate enquiry.... :D:D:ok:

[Soar2384]

And how is all of this related to an exodus at Skippers?

[SOPS]

Knowing what is behind "Fast Track".....Things that Make You Go mmmmm?????:ugh:

[Soar2384]

So SOPS, are you saying that you think that having cadets going through Skippers are going to cause an exodus? I'm not supporting the cadetship here however please explain to me how pilots already at Skippers are going to say "I'm leaving because I don't like the fact that Skippers takes on cadets"? I think the more likely cause would be "I'm over worrying about Skippers taking my productivity bonus and leaving me paid peanuts! Therefore I'm going to leave"

I really don't see how the cadetship relates to an exodus. "Knowing" what is behind Fast Track or otherwise.

[Low and Fast]

Soar2384

So what is actually happening at skippers re cadets, Have they just started this program or has it been operating for some time, What is this productivity bonus?
Reason for my interest! Is I am wanting to move on from GA into a regional airline, I am considering applying to skippers soon, maybe you could help me out here.

Is it a good company to work for and are they recruiting direct entry or is it just a cadet based airline?

Any advice would be valuable

[Mr. Hat]

Fair enough Biggles can't argue with a lot of your points. I just see it from a different angle. I see the system as the problem. I'm of the opinion that our government not only supports but promotes these types of schemes that keep wages as low as possible. Their long term goal is sweatshop style employment or an american system where people have multiple casual jobs with no holidays or benefits.

I'm hoping that the good Senator burrows deep and uncovers the truths about the very top end of town.

I don't see any point in giving individual pilots/cadets a hard time. You never know when taking skill and experience for granted is going to bite a company. I'm a huge believer in fate. It all comes around in the end.

[Towering Q]

Thanks for the link Biggles.

Watching those lads discuss the virtues of Fast-Track in front of the sim cut-outs reminded me of westerners being video taped by al-Qaeda hostage-takers, to negotiate a ransom.

[sickofitall00]

Mr Hat. Well done :ok: One of the few people on this website that can discuss and articulate on a debate or issue without turning it into a brawl. It seems that most on this website grow about 6 inches through the power of a keyboard.
I also agree with Capt Biggles' thoughts. I agree with you Mr Hat on not giving these individuals a hard time and the system IS letting us all down at ALL levels but surely they must be able to take responsibility for their choices ?
As Biggles said they can never plead ignorance. Cadets may be extremely green but they are not idiots. They know that starting as a single piston driver is hard work and they may encounter some scary dark clouds. They just decided it was tooooo hard and Mummy's and Daddy's money can get me anything. And if anyone says "What is wrong with that ?" My parents have been there from day one with an open cheque book to support me and most of my colleagues through life but I must have been brought up differently. I worked full time, studied in the downtime and payed for my training . I am now EXACTLY on the path I wanted to be on and have found myself to be surrounded by other hard working pilots who are great human beings who actually want to fly an aircraft VS telling the world that they are a pilot. On the subject, To the Skippers pilot that drives around Perth with the roof off the car,music up, bars blazing on the shoulder, looking around to see if anyone's watching you, YES, We are watching you and thinking one thing. Take the massive aviators off, look in the rear view mirror and then give yourself an uppercut. :ugh::mad:

SOAR 2384 - I know of 3 people (very well) that left Skippers to greener pastures and one of the major reasons was the Cadet system they have in place. It is laughable. Cadets that have paid $55,000 plus extras to be a wage of around 55k. Opps.... hang on, Superannuation is included in that figure, do we all know that ?!?! So take another 9 % off and you are left with a large loan, average pay,NO REAL EXPERIENCE but all you top guns can all tell the 18y/o girls you stutter at that you fly a pretty turbo prop while some great people actually took the time to do an apprenticeship and really learn the trade of Flying the aircraft and making critical command decisions. And to the ones did actually spend 2 seconds in the bush before collapsing in a crying heap- YOU ARE WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS INDUSTRY !!! :ugh::mad::ugh:
I know that some pilots with a GA background leave a lot to be desired as do some Cadets. This is a human condition. We are all different. However, the general attitude of Cadets, (JQ cadets included) is woeful at best. It is the biggest plane in the quickest time, usually for an embarrassing salary. If you didn't take the DISGUSTING terms , conditions and in a lot of cases pay, the programs would not exist. The terms and conditions you guys are accepting are continually setting the bar lower and lower for the entire industry !!!:D

[Low and Fast]

Sickofitall00

You obviously work for Skippers! maybe you could assist me regarding my previous post to soar ?

[sickofitall00]

Low and Fast - May have..and I may have left ASAP...
Look at the general feel of this thread. They have current employees bagging their own company and pilots out. It always bothered me in my Ab initio days how a bare CPL holder (Who had barely left the training area) could do an Instructor Rating and was allowed to teach brand new and extremely impressionable students. Keep asking questions and I wish you all the best on the job hunt.

[Josh Cox]

Its highly probable a lot of flack will head my way for this post, and as I post using my own name, its fair to say I truely believe what I am posting:

I feel some of you are being quite cruel to MC, he is an employee of a profit making organisation, which has a culure and ethos applied from above,,,,,,,,,and takes instruction from above, if he did not follow instruction from above he would probably be removed from the position.

From my experience, he fought the fights he knew he could win, did his job to the best of his ability, with as much sympathy as he could muster for his pilots ( who often did themselves no favours ) without crossing the line, he no doubt has mortgages of his own and a family to feed.

Having once worked for MC, I would happily do so again in a different organisation.

Good luck to MC with his future endeavours.

[The Green Goblin]

swan dive

Pun intended??

Nothing against WS, that however is what happens when you do not toe the line!

[Josh Cox]

Sorry GG, edited that bit.

To answer your question, yes ( history is a great teacher ).

[sled_driver71]

sickofiall00

hahaha well said!:D

oh and ive seen that guy in and around the airport too. In my previous experience in GA (5 hard fought years!) he is probably a cadet that thinks the aviation industry owes him.:mad: Those who want everyone to know what they do for a living are usually those compensating for something...:(

Low and Fast

there are so many posts on here as too why u shouldn't work for an outfit like Skippers so why bother?:ugh: If you get a job and then in 2 years complain its a sh!th0le to work for then you're as bad as the rest of them...serioulsy!

and on a final note, I think cadets are great. Without them who would we hang sh!t on?:ugh:

[twocansam]

Is there any truth to the rumour that these 55g cheques are being made payable to something other than Skippers/Fast track????

Sounds a little bit dodgy...

[The Green Goblin]

Sorry GG, edited that bit.

To answer your question, yes ( history is a great teacher ).

It's a shame really. I would consider him a friend, and he was a great bloke to head around the corner to that bar on certain afternoons with :E

[metrodashbrazconkie]

One possible scenario that may cause poeple to leave (or want to) may go a little like this:

A particular cadet/s transfer to another fleet (direct to command), glide in thinking they know everything, start transferring their bad habits to other easily influenced cadet F/O's and by pure nepotism find themselves in a position of political influence. Then those captains who actually worked their way up the aviation ladder get pissed off at having to regularly rein in these cadet F/O's who ,by no fault of thier own, believe SOP's were never meant for the brave and that they have a "better" idea that they saw the other day to make the operation a bit more "awesome".

A pretty hopeless situation for those trying to keep the priorities in order, yeah I think an exodus could begin there.


Just a random thought :}

[Low and Fast]

WOW

I think I'll stay up north flying my 310 and consider applying elsewhere guys.

All the Best.

[sickofitall00]

LOW AND FAST - There will be/are quite a few good options in the coming months if you are looking at WA. Alliance/Network/Skywest should all be considerations. All the best with the job hunt.:ok::)

[Captain Biggles84]

Soar

Has the writing on the wall sunk in yet? Or still confused as to what this has to do with an exodus..?:rolleyes:

[Towering Q]

I think I'll stay up north flying my 310 and consider applying elsewhere guys.

Wouldn't be the first....and definitely wont be the last!

[Soar2384]

Biggles, how many years has Skippers taken cadets for? I know for a fact that it has been at least five years. It hasn't always been fast track but they have been taking cadets for at least that long all the same. So again please explain to me how something that has been going on for at least five years is all of a sudden going to make everyone jump ship? And sickofitall where did your friends go to? Jetstar? Skywest? Try to remember guys that cadetships are a bigger problem than just at Skippers.

[sickofitall00]

SOAR - They went to companies that operate the EXACT type of aircraft they were on at skippers. Directly because Skippers couldn't organise a root in a brothel and they consistently over looked highly qualified people with impeccable track records for upgrades etc to promote job thieves. I personally believe this is primarily done to inflate the egos of the cadets as they will then stay longer and bend over more regularly for the pineapple. When I say "greener pastures" I don't mean JQ. They did not leave to get on a "bigger and better" aircraft but to be content in the workplace and learn/train with some very experienced and very talented people. I agree whole heartedly that the cadet problem is industry wide. JQ check and trainers have told me directly of the current batch of cadets and their shortcomings. EG : Not knowing the difference between an A320 and a B737 when instructed to line up.(Yes, I know, they were TRAINING ON a :mad: A320 !!!)
Everything I have written is fact and my personal opinions are a result of those facts. I have made it my ambition to get to the top in a respectable and honest way. Then when I'm there, I can join the others (there are quite a few...) and have some direct and strong influence on this industry and who is allowed to operate in it.
It may be well too late. The fact that the Senate inquiry has been extended and AIPA is flexing some muscle on the off shoring etc may dictate otherwise.

[Captain Biggles84]

Soar

You clearly have not stepped foot on the crew room
at Skippers. If you have it was prob very early days where the impact on the pilot body was minimal and they(cadets) were well and truly a minority. Just read again what Myself, sickofit and metrodashbraz have said. These are all primary factors ontop of SQ's T's abd C's as to the exodus. Name one other joint in Australia that bonds pilots then holds them to a 90 notice period for resignation?? An absolute disgrace!!!! How Fair Work let this kind of stuff get through is beyond me. Funny enough how you think 5 years of cadets seems harmless but most were probably spinless when SQ brought in the 90 day period.

So just quietly are there anymore reasons you would like to justify an exodus??:D:ugh:

[Soar2384]

Sorry Biggles but you're going to have to try harder to convince me that the cadets are a cause for an exodus. As you pointed out T's & C's the big reason for an exodus. And sickofitall the new guys jumping over more experienced guys thing is a good reason as well but that's not just cadets doing that. I will accept that the cadetship annoys a lot of people but given that unless this senate inquiry is successful then just about every regional and major airline is going to have a cadetship supplying a large percentage of their pilots. So why leave one to go to another for anything other than T's & C's or the like? :ugh:

Oh and I can't help myself here but Biggles that 90 day notice to resign I'm pretty sure is gone now and didn't you say that this is the most cadets Skippers have ever had? Guess the Spineless weren't so spineless after all! :ok: (and no I'm not protecting them, I just couldn't help myself!)

[sickofitall00]

Soar - I understand that it is an industry wide prob. The guys weren't new. Just inexperienced cadets. Experienced guys told they had an upgrade to find out a cadet was given it. And the Companies they left for had superior T and C's, no joke 90 day clause , no pathetic performance bonus, no cadet scheme and superannuation was NOT included in the salary figure (That is still unbelieveable). It was the T and C's, promises never kept (over a 5 year term of watching friends getting burnt) and the promotion of more than one Cadet to different positions including going from metros to direct commands on Dashes etc that got the exodus. The general swagger and hair product used by the cadets was just the icing on the cake.

[Soar2384]

Sickofitall, would you agree that if the T's & C's had a seniority clause that saw a propper career progression then the cadets wouldn't be a cause for an exodus but rather a look at them and shake your head kind of reaction?

[Captain_Australia]

I normally wouldn’t reply to comments such as those made in the past on this subject however I’ve now taken offence at some of the things Captain Biggle84 and others have said recently.

If I may, I’d like to take a little time to correct some of the errors in statements made lately. It’s simply not possible to correct all the untruths spoken however below are a select few. You may ask how I know what I say is correct. Simple.. I’m one of the fast track students lucky enough to have become a cadet at Skippers. I’d like to point out a few facts so the opinions of others aren’t clouded by recent comments made in this forum.

Firstly, money. A subject everyone seems to have an opinion on. Captain_Biggles84 states cadets part with “pay up $55K for a Dash or Braz endo plus extra IFR training (this is ontop of CPL costs!!!).” This statement is simply incorrect. I’m not going to go into detail on figures in a public place such as this forum however the figure for an endorsement is nowhere near $55,000. Further, IFR training on top of CPL costs is in no way different to the cost borne by any other pilot out there with an IRCME(A). I’d actually be curious to know how much other pilots out there have paid for all their CPL and IFR training. Maybe someone would like to catch up for a drink to chat about it.

Secondly, and still related to money, are the statements made regarding things like not being reliant on “mummy and daddy”. I can’t speak for all fast track students or Skipper’s cadets, however I do know that alot of them are around the age of thirty, had decent careers outside aviation prior to pursuing a lifelong dream and had cut the apron strings quite some time ago. Financing of their training came from any number of places be that a bank loan, hard earned savings, refinancing of assets etc. Following training some of these students went bush in search of work (and by all accounts had a great time with the flying out there), some became instructors and others were restrained by finances and/or family and were therefore unable to commit to moving or further training.

Thirdly, the easy option. Please let me point out that post is not intended as a shot at Captain_Biggles84, it’s merely a reply to some statements he/she has made that I feel need to be corrected in this public medium. Captain_Biggles84 also makes the statement “These muppets have every resource (internet/other pilots etc) available to research and find out the career path a pilot can go down. Because this ( Fast Track) is the easiest option as it saves them from entering the real world, ..”

Fact: Fasttrack students (again I can’t speak for all, only the ones I know) finished their CPL in twenty weeks. As a reminder, that’s 11 theory exams, 150 hours of flying training and two or three flights tests in twenty weeks. Then it’s an instrument rating in one month. Some of them went on to complete all seven ATPL exams in a further two months. Some of them went through all that without failing a single test or exam. I don’t see how that sort of workload can be described as the easiest option. Some people out there are no doubt reading this and thinking that corners were cut in training and testing. Please remember that ALL pilots pass the same exams, sit the very same flight tests and are subject the same testing standards. I totally agree with Captain_Biggles84 in that these individuals had every resource available to research. These individuals then decided that Fast Track pilot training was quite simply the best option for them at that point in their lives. With the prospect of completing your CPL and IRCME(A) in twenty four weeks, plus the introduction to a regional airline, who would choose otherwise? Please note that the introduction to a regional airline is just that – an introduction. Not many people out there can guarantee you a job and jobs certainly weren’t guaranteed to any fast track students.

Finally, the title of the thread is “Exodus from Skippers” which is a subject many recent posts refer to. It’s worth noting that the first post in this thread is dated June 2007. That’s almost four years ago. The industry certainly seems to be alot different at the current point in time as far as opportunities for advancing a career are concerned. 2007 may well have been a year when the worlds airlines were hungry for pilots and pilots from regional airlines (be that Skippers, Qantaslink, Network etc) were probably the ones they targeted. 2010 was certainly a different year and, while I don’t have the exact figures in front of me, I can recall only a handful of pilots moving on from Skippers to other airlines since I started with the company. Hardly an exodus.

In summary, these cadets that people are bad mouthing are generally nice guys and they seem to be doing a good job. If you feel otherwise, and work for Skippers, I’d suggest taking the approach of someone in a professional industry in voicing your concerns to your company superiors rather than voicing your opinions in a VERY public domain such as this.

A note to Low and fast. For your own sake, please be cautious of accepting advice on your career from a forum such as this. Forums the world over seem to be a meeting place for people who have complaints to make**. I, and many people I know, will tell you that working for Skippers is great. I love flying and consider myself incredibly lucky to be where I am working for Skippers. The hours are good, the money seems ok (although I don’t have many terms of reference having not worked for a regional before), management are easy to deal with and the people I work with are fun to be around. What more could you want? Sure, there are small things that I might not agree with but that happens in any company in any industry. And I also see the irony in offering that advice on this forum.

There you have it. I’m not expecting feedback or replies to this post because to me this is simply a tool to point out a few facts so the opinions of others aren’t clouded by recent comments made in this forum.

Regards.



** Infact, has anyone noticed the caveat at the bottom of this webpage? It seems to confirm my advice to low and fast. Feel free to scroll down for confirmation but here it is:

"As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions.
*"sciolist"... Noun, archaic. "a person who pretends to be knowledgeable and well informed"."

[Jeff Ucker]

FACT...
I worked for this mob for over 6 years several years back! It was a sh!t hole then... And it's a BIGGER sh!t whole now!

Don't go there, your better off elsewhere. They should've be shut down if CASA were doing their job right :ugh:

For you 'cadets' (fast-track blokes)... Go and get some real experience around this planet, you'll be better off for it and we wont have to adjust you too much when you get to a bigger airline! The world's a BIG place you know. Quite a bit of opportunity out there if you cared to look :rolleyes:

[Bird On]

I sometimes wonder if its in the financial interests of the flying training organizations to "make sure", one way or the other, that all students enrolled in their courses pass, regardless!!! Surely not.

[twocansam]

I’m one of the fast track students lucky enough to have become a cadet at Skippers.

Luck has nothing to do with it. Money does!

[aussie027]

Captain_Australia (http://www.pprune.org/members/352272-captain_australia), please check your PMs.

Sent a msg today.:ok:

[Captain Biggles84]

Captain Australia

I'm a little puzzeled how to respond to your post.. Dunno if I have enough time to express all the words going through my head.

The fact that you have even attempted to justify your existence as a cadet in this industry just shows you really don't know the big picture. How weird would the world be if every job professional, trades, skilled/non skilled be if every employer put a price tag next to it. No I'm not talking about your training to get your CPL ect I'm talking about your little dash 8 or braz whatever. The fact that you hand over money for employment is a joke beyond jokes. They fast tracked you alright. Yeh you might have had the money sitting there from some other job but you still cut the effing line in front of people have slogged it away from the comforts of home and all the rest etc. Oh and guess what you only had that chance cos MC and a few other skippers guys, who were around whilst you were prob still sitting at your other job "dreaming" of flying thought of a way of making cash out of pilots on the side, as Skippers seems to harbour these kind of people. Cos he has an interest in Fray Track naturally you get a look in.. Wow that's how it works. My bucket of spew over flowed when you mentioned finishing your CPL in 20 weeks or whatever. Mate try working three jobs to pay for your flying and study and then go bush to earn less that what a secretary earns but actually get the best flying experience you can. Try that for about 4 years then apply for Skippers and get in and sit next to a muppet such as yourself and listen to how hard you have it.

If Bill Gates job was for sale and I had the money prob do it cos it's what I've always dreamed of...................

Write these down Hard Work, Commitment, Sacrifice :=

You blokes wouldn't know what it smells like........:mad::ok:

[Continental-520]

Let's not forget that as human beings, we naturally want to get things done as quickly and easily as we can. It is in our nature. I did things the hard way, cause like many here, I didn't have a choice. Several years out bush, no money, living in old caravans at times that weren't worth what I was paying to rent them each week, etc all to flog around in a C172.

Yeah it was fun, I don't regret it and I got some great experience, but there are a thousand ways to skin a cat guys. This mentality of "I did it tough, so you should too" is self righteous and outdated. I have flown with some of these cadets and their flying skills are better than what you might assume. Captain Australia has a valid point in saying that a check to line is a check to line, and a standard needs to be met whether you have 250 hours or 25000.

Ask yourself this: Outside the centre of the universe (Australia), low time pilots go straight into the right seat of a B737/A320 and progress to the command seat within 2000hrs, typically. Sometimes less. The accident rate in Europe is no larger than anywhere else in the civilized world if you factor in the population difference. So is it really so outrageous that these guys are 'jumping the queue' as you say? I think not, because if I was to suggest a way to someone I knew who wanted to get into the industry, I would suggest the cadetship as a way to get the boxes ticked. Yes you can get some great experience in the bush but if airlines is where you want to end up, flying ILS to ILS, it really isn't giving you a lot of relevant exposure. Especially in this day an age where airliners are less demanding of stick and rudder skills.

I've lost too many friends in clapped out pistons trying to kick goals. They were old when I flew them, more so now. It is a known fact that turbine engined aircraft are safer than pistons. I would have blood on my conscience if I old someone to go the hard way when there were equally good alternatives available and I didn't even make them aware of it.

The pay and conditions at Skippers is another argument, as is the concept of paying for a job. But I ASSURE you that the pay/conditions buzzing around in light singles/twins left a lot to be desired also. Far from where it deserved to be. You all know this, so why not cut the kids some slack? They're just trying to do what we're all in this business for.


520.

[Mecarsa Bitrusty]

You “oh you have to have bush time” guys need to get over it, this is the future of aviation in this country, like it or not!!!!

[Captain Biggles84]

520

you make a valid point in regards to the fastest way to skin a cat. I certainaly agree with you on that. However in Australia as you know, we do have a very large GA industry. So contrary to Europe where is is tiny in comparison I feel that this path should be taken by pilots. Several reasons for this are. Aviation is an industry as a whole. When wanting to fly for a career it's not all about the big jets and wanking off to your mates, chicks etc.. It's about life experience you get from earning your way. Secondly operators and people in rural Australia depend on new pilots heading to the bush to support aviation itself and also the towns and communities that support it. What better way and to learn some good life lessons along the way and meet people that put our version of hard work, dedication and sacrifice to shame.

Captain Australia not saying that your one of the poor individuals that I had to deal with at Skippers. But a good majority of these guys lack alot of good qaulities for me to even want to have a beer with. Then you have to see some of them fly and whilst generally prob 50% do well, the other 50% have attitude, poor performance and lack of respect. Or put it simply a dit down watch listen and learn attitude don't exisit.
Anyways we can debate for months on this but this is how it is and there is no question an exodus is as a result of a fair number of cadets in the place with alot of the qaulities mentioned above.

[sickofitall00]

Where to begin.....

Soar - The T and C's could definitely be improved but if you ask an QF A380 driver he'll also think things could be better in his company. I have worked for a seniority based company and it has it's merits. However, some if not more credit needs to given to work history, track record and general performance and I think we can all say this is happening at most companies these days.
What clearly isn't fair/just/balanced is people buying a job and then being "Fast Tracked" to the top.

CAPTAIN AUSTRALIA - I appreciate the reply. The cadets at skippers I have talked to/worked with most certainly did pay approximately $55,000. BUT I am sure you already know this :ok:. Three of them had been working as Commercial Pilots and the cheque was made out after this. One even had an instructor rating.
The point is this quite simply: If you paid $1 $100 $1000 or $55000 for a JOB you have done the WRONG thing. Yes, The WRONG THING ! This is a social problem in the me me me world but there are many people out there that simply cannot afford to live week to week on an instructor or GA wage so how in the hell can they afford to write a cheque for that much ?? Every human being should have a chance for an education and a Job if they are dedicated and appropriately qualified. Not only if they have a cheque book.
You said you think that "management are easy to deal with" and Skippers is good to work for and yet you acknowledge you haven't been to a regional before. Is it because it is half filled with cadets these days and management are all smiles when there are hundreds of thousands of dollars being passed around. Common :ugh::ugh::ugh: They certainly weren't easy to deal with if you speak to any one of 20 plus ex pilots I know from there.
Captain Australia, You also consider yourself one of the "students lucky enough to have become a cadet at Skippers" You were not lucky, YOU PAID MONEY AND WERE GIVEN A JOB. A person that didn't pay the $$$ didn't get that position !!! Captain Aust - Ex skippers pilots from ten years back to current pilots are still commenting about the joke that it is and some of the unscrupulous "characters" that have been and are still there. It was interesting getting your version. It actually sounds like you really believe what you wrote ?!?!:hmm::hmm::hmm: Other pilots there give a very different story. The thread did start in 2007 - and it is still getting some pretty soild posts from a variety of different people from what I can gather. At the start of 2010 about 10-12 drivers left. A few months later about another 8 left. Again- All FACT. I guess the "exodus" will continue until it is all cadets. Cadets generally don't move too far from there. Maybe it's the 2000 + hrs F/O time and 2200 total time that is a factor here ??

Continental 520- Your points have been made before about Europe and while they are valid in many respects I was not commenting about skill level. I think we all agree, even from a braz/dash the levels of automation keep increasing so pilots are becoming flight deck managers as opposed to stick and rudder pilots. You could train a monkey to fly a sim. COMMAND DECISION MAKING cannot be purchased. 20-40 yr veterans (Checkies/Senior checkies/ line pilots) have told me on numerous occasions the cadets "operate the jet fine but when it comes to decision making, well......cough cough. "
To hear you say if you sent someone up bush or to a piston job and they had an accident you would have blood on your conscience MAKES ME SICK ! I have recommended many a young and not so young bloke to head out bush and the ones that did have thanked me for it sincerely. It was the best experience of my life and I have a had a few THROUGHOUT the world. The characters I met, sights I saw and places I landed were spectacular. I learnt a lot about myself and a damn lot more about operating an aircraft. From single pistons to twin turbines I had the ride of my life. It was very tough. Both financially and socially but with the great crew of people around you it was a ball. I would send my own child into GA as a proud builder would let his child take on an apprenticeship if they so desired. Yes, there are dangers, but instead of not recommending that career path why not advise them of some of the more reputable companies instead of spending thousands on some ones money making scheme ?!?!
THIS IS AUSTRALIA. Have a look past your local Starbucks. There is a beautiful backyard if you just go for a drive.

Mecarsa Bitrusty No you don't have to have "bush time" at all and I have never said that. I do however think it is invaluable experience. What I do think is any flying experience, even meat bomb dropping and instructing is much better then NO experience or the experience of writing a large cheque.

It is definitely not the future of aviation in this country as there are still people in the right places that are against it and even those who were nonchalant about the programs are now seeing the cancerous damage they are doing to the industry in the form of terms and conditions etc. The mentality that "I'll fly for anything/nothing" let alone "I'll PAY for my job" is just being exposed in the public arena now. Even if nothing comes of it (which is highly unlikely) I certainly wouldn't want to be the one sitting in a silent cockpit for hrs or wondering why no one's inviting me out for a drink.::rolleyes::ok:

[Captain Biggles84]

Sickofitall.... BRAVO

couldn't of said it better.


Oh and Soar. You and your little cadet buddies took just over 2 years to get a new EBA through. Yes quite right that the 90 claus was removed. I believe many cadet passed up the opportunity to represent pilots at the table against SQ/MC. SQ and MC could have asked for a wristy at flight levels and you all would have lined up to do so cos they are management and your only way forward in the company. So don't try and plead to me that there is unity among cowards :=:D:ugh::mad:

[Continental-520]

Captain Biggles 84,

Agree with your statement. Indeed there is a need for pilots in the more rural parts of the industry, and always will be. I would imagine that cadetships would evaporate the supply in the long run, leaving these areas a bit stuck.

sickofitall,

Please refrain from using a condescending tone in what should be a constructive discussion. I have spent years of my life in GA a bloody long way from starbucks thanks very much and I was trying to offer you a different perspective to the discussion, which clearly I have been unsuccessful at.

You accuse those who 'pay' for a job of doing the wrong thing. I could not agree more. But how is it any less wrong than working up north in illegal or near enough to conditions on less pay than what is mentionable? You and I both know what it is like up there and you can't tell me that everything that goes on is kosher. Yes I agree you cannot buy command experience, but whether you attain that in a C172 or EMB120 doesn't really matter at the end if the day. Command time is command time. Yes a cadet starting at Skippers as an F/O will not experience as much diversity as a GA charter pilot, and may not get command time for a while but does it really matter in the end? I don't think it changes the sort of pilot they become, cause they get the command experience sooner or later anyway.

I'm not saying that going bush is a bad idea, hell, I did it and wouldn't trade a minute of it for the world, but if all you want is a cushy jet job, and you can get it without putting yourself through years of sacrifices, why wouldn't you? We only went bush because we had no other choice, so you and I might've done things differently had there been other options available to us. (Without the benefit of hindsight.)

If my comments make you sick mate, I suggest you talk to the families of those who have perished in unairworthy death traps chasing the dream in underpaid jobs while making the same sacrifices as we did. You might find your sickness becomes contagious. I've realised it could've been me - and wondered how I survived it all sometimes. Give that some thought cause GA ain't getting any safer as aircraft get older, operating costs increase and budgets stay the same size or shrink.

Again, I never said paying for a job was the right thing to do but neither is accepting sub standard pay/conditions.


520.

[Saintly]

Flew Skippers today to Carnarvon - first time for me flying with them.

No food - they only served water, tea or coffee. I flew on the Brasilia - small plane - not enough leg room.

I prefer the SKywest F50 over the Braz. The Braz is louder compared to the F50. Having said that - the flight time to Carnarvon from Perth is roughly 15 minutes quicker then the F50.

I miss the Skywest service. I wonder if other passengers who are flying to Carnarvon, Monkey Mia and Kalbarri enjoy flying with Skippers or prefer Skywest?

Anyways the contract lasts for 5 years with the State Government to review in the middle of the 5 years.

Cheers,
Saintly.

[sickofitall00]

CONTINENTAL520-

Sorry for appearing condescending however I really have had enough of this crap :ugh:. I Was not directing the Starbucks comment at you but rather the latest generation of cadets etc.
My colleagues and I also did YEARS up North, I never saw a "death trap" in the companies I worked for and if I did I certainly would not have flown it.
Did night flying with the bare minimum Night VFR rigs (single pistons to twin turbines) and flew in and around some pretty damn crap WX but never once did I feel the machine I was in was not maintained correctly.
You're not the only one to have lost friends/colleagues in the GA game but to not recommend someone getting out there and seeing the country because there are dodgy operators is a bit sad. Direct the newbies to a good organisation. Problem solved.

I see the new man in the corridors of power has canned the cadetship. Good start.

I hear Skippers Captains professionalism shining through again. Anyone want to shed light on the latest prank pulled at Flight levels ?!?! F/A not laughing ? ??:ugh::ugh::mad::mad::D:D

[Low and Fast]

Hi all

Just had a call to attend an interview with skippers, any one out there that could enlighten me with what to expect during the interview and what fleets they are recruiting for.

Thanks in Advance.

L & F

[metrodashbrazconkie]

I hear Skippers Captains professionalism shining through again. Anyone want to shed light on the latest prank pulled at Flight levels ?!?! F/A not laughing ? ??:ugh::ugh::mad::mad::D:D



Yeah a real crack up that one. :=

[Low and Fast]

metrodashbrazconkie

I assume you are obviously part of the skippers crew, do you know how many positions they are needing to fill e.g 2 pilots or more, I'm curious as I have to travel there from the NT and are interested in what the competition might be especially if 1 or 2 positions exist compared to say 5 or 6 etc....

Thanks in advance

L & F

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Hmm,

I travelled there for a job interview once. Did well on the interview but I was a very green IF pilot and it showed on the sim.

I thought I'd get in anyway given that I had some twin time and they were rumoured to be in dire need of pilots. I got a call a few weeks later asking if I was interested in paying for my own endorsement. I said not really. Got a call a few days later saying I was unsuccessful. I do know that shortly after that they took a few guys on who were "already endorsed" but had 0 time on type.

Not sour grapes, just a bit of info.

Jump onto Microsoft Flight Sim and do a few NDBs on the King Air (I know there are no King Airs in the fleet but that's the "sim" they used to test candidates on three years ago).

Ciao,

FRQ CB

[Avturbound]

Gday all,

I have been reading over these posts on Skippers, I don't want some bitter person replying to this message but it is a forum after all I won't hold me breath...

I just had a question as to what is so bad about Skippers, is it a bad company to work for?? Currently in GA but looking into the regionals, know about all the east coast operators but haven't looked to much in west coast..

Could someone please give me some informative information on Skippers if you have or currently work there?

Cheeers AV:cool:

[metrodashbrazconkie]

Sheesh! 3 months and not a peep! Is evrything ok? :suspect:

[bigbrother]

I woud be interested to hear something also. test one two

[Tiger 77]

As far as I can tell everyone seems pretty happy.

[Towering Q]

And then there was peace in the Middle East!

[metrodashbrazconkie]

Happy? Sure about that? Watch this space.....

[Rate1]

Any takers for these positions as yet.

[aussie027]

Direct Entry Braz Captains needed......

Hmmm so what's going on, they dont have any FOs in the Company at all on any aircraft they can upgrade to a Braz Captain???

[AussieAviator]

Apparently, Skippers have just lost a bunch of Captains to Alliance Airlines for F100 Perth and Adelaide slots. I didn't think Adelaide had a jet?:confused:

[The Green Goblin]

You only get an upgrade if they like you and you're prepared to play their games.

They are scared most of the time to give you a command. It means you'll be gone to the majors after a short time. They also have to hire another FO to replace you which costs them two training slots.

Better to bring someone in over the top who only costs them one training slot.

Plenty of upgradable guys on the bras. Most Are ex charter types. The Metro and Dash seems to be the pay your way cadet fleets with the aces moving from Metro commands to Dash commands :p

Most guys seem happy that I know there however. Play it their way and don't ask too many questions and you'll be fine.

Go to work, do your thing, don't get involved in politics, accept your roster change the night before, accept a flying duty the night before and you'll be fine.

[Auxilio ab alto]

Of 10 captains checked to line, 4 are to leave in the next month, three of those are the current training captains.

Currently one upgraded captain in training, with only two other F/O's upgradable.

[aussie027]

GG & AAA, thanks for comments.
That explains a few things.
3 training Captains leaving doesnt sound good and only 2 upgradeable FOs. sounds like some difficult times ahead.

[mince]

How much are braz captains getting paid at skippers?

[Arnold E]

I didn't think Adelaide had a jet?http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif
F100 sitting in Alliance hanger in Adelaide as we speak (write)

[bigbrother]

you will be pleased to know that "there is movement at the station, for the word had passed around, that the pilot of some regret had got away, he was worth a thousand pounds" "and all the noted pilots had gathered from near and far to try thier hand at a job that pays" Appologies to Banjo

[exmexican]

The next line from the poem could be more appropriate, "and all the hacks had gathered for the fray" Hee hee.

[bigbrother]

ahhh humour amongst the ashes, love it
:D

[aussie027]

Does anyone know if Skippers are presently hiring for the Braz or Dash 8 fleet???
Been quiet on hear for over a month.
Only vacancy advertised recently was for the C441 in Broome.
Are they managing to train new people in reasonable time after losing 3 Training Captains as mentioned above in a recent post??

[MACH082]

PILOTS

Due to our rapidly expanding route network and client base, Skippers is currently seeking suitably qualified aircrew to fulfill direct entry command positions on our Conquest fleet.
This position will be based in Perth.

A Conquest type endorsement is preferred although is not desirable.
Please forward all Resumes along with a cover letter to [email protected]

Make your mind up!

I hope the quality of Pilots is better than the quality of HR officers :}

Perhaps they got mixed up between required and desirable :=

[captainng]

so how much does a conquest skipper make and what sort of roster patterns are they on?

thanks for the info!

[aussie027]

Does anyone know if Skippers are presently hiring for the Braz or Dash 8 fleet???
Been quiet on hear for nearly a month.
Only vacancy advertised recently was for the C441 in Broome.
Are they managing to train new people in reasonable time after losing 3 Braz Training Captains as mentioned above in a recent post??
Someone mentioned guys were waiting 9mo to do line training???
Seriously??? Anyone who maybe works there have any info to share??

[metrodashbrazconkie]

Almost guarantee it champ. If you want to work for us, apply. Simple

[NTChicky]

I have been told they are paying $85k inc. an $8k living allowance for 441 Cap.

Anyone?

[Flying Meat Cleaver]

There ya go Aussie,

"Due to our rapidly expanding route network and client base, Skippers is currently seeking suitably qualified aircrew to fulfill direct entry command positions on our Dash 8 fleet.
This position is based in Perth."

Anyone out there with a pulse and able to readily accept a pineapple!?!

FMC.

[aussie027]

Been quiet here for 2 mo. Another advert for crew.
Anyone working there have any info re there ability to train people they may hire in a timely manner after losing so many of their C & T Captains late last year??
Current work atmosphere/ moral in the company??

[havick]

aussie027.. You seem to know what's going on there already given your references to C/T staff, so why bother trolling on here?

[aussie027]

Im not trolling, I am looking for genuine info from someone who works there. Only mentioning what was said months ago in a previous post on here.
If I personally knew someone who worked there I would just ring and speak to them directly.

[Livinthedream320]

Confirm first that the positions actually exist. then Get your offer for employment in writing first. That HR girl (A) tells porkies, you have a job then you don't, never returns calls, emails etc.

Tread Carefully

LTD

[bigbrother]

Attitude plus .......well Attitude is the answer here, and with REX and QLINK, well, no need to go on. When the arrogance of the Management toward Professional flight crew is that they travel all the way across the country and provide no incentive, accomodation, or transport, the make you sit a bunch of B.S interviews (more HR Crap) and sim (cough) checks, then advise you there is no relocation assistance should you be selected, oh and don't mention the 'Training Salary', no wonder they can't get crew short of recruiting from O/S. and I for one will be contacting my Union to ensure I have my say heard in this regard. I urge you all to do the same as we are now on the verge of the slippery slide of wages and conditions. I can assure you there are pilots from all over the world out of work at present, and they are turning toward our little neck of the woods. We have enough pilots making thier way through this discracefull industry trying to ech out a living without being flooded by o/s crew driving down W&C. You boys and girls need to start screaming very loudly at your local MP and Union to ensure a future. When a truck driver, bus driver is making $55K anywhere in Oz, let a lone the $130K+ in the mines, and pilot wages continue to languish with cries from some quaters how we are over paid, you better start getting political and militant or get out now. In the current world climate we do have to be careful to not price ourselves out of work, but we can protect ourselves and the investment we have made over many years in our trade, to ensure we have a local industry which can at least support and reward us for what we have put into it. These companies will shortly lobby Ministers of Govt. to say ," we can't get pilots and need to import". Bull****. They are there, but you gutter rat employers tender low, cut wages, and then complain you can't get crew. Makes me sick.

[Soar2384]

Aussie027: Skippers do still have some training Captains on the Bras and Dash that for one reason or another will probably never leave. Training is slow as it always has been and therefore even though they need more pilots, recruitment is slow too.

Livinthedream320: Well said. I've seen it happen to someone myself. Quite ridiculous I agree.

bigbrother: I didn't think Skippers had recently recruited any overseas pilots (at least over the last few years) that weren't already working in Australia. Is that what you're saying or are you meaning airlines in general?

[Fonz121]

So how many have thrown their hat in the ring for Qlink with the DEC Dash positions in Perth being advertised?

[myshoutcaptain]

bb , what's Rex advertising in USA got to do with Skippers... While we're at it, I'm sure any academic isn't flown , put up and paid for unless you're on headhunters hit lists.... shake a tree ... :ok:

You get out what you put in ... it's not a flying school , it's not a airline nor perfect ... but where and what is? VA,JQ,QF. :mad:

Networks always down the road.:ugh:

[The Green Goblin]

So is Skywest and Alliance.

That's where I'd be knocking on doors and rather quick!

[G Limit]

So how many have thrown their hat in the ring for Qlink with the DEC Dash positions in Perth being advertised?

Probably quite a few, but QLink are adhering strictly to the advertised minimums which rules out most of the Skippers applicants. Alliance are still the biggest threat to the exodus.

make you sit a bunch of B.S interviews (more HR Crap) and sim (cough) checks

I for one will be contacting my Union to ensure I have my say And say what? Simply because you have a logbook you should be flown over, housed and offered a job? :ugh:

[knee-deep]

Myshoutcaptain, please tell me your not trying to defend the joke factory! Skippers will probably always exist but as the FIFO game becomes more and more competitive the pressure will continue to mount on the clowns in the ivory tower to eventually put there ego's to one side and evolve that way it may then have a chance in becoming WA's truly regional airline:eek:

[metrodashbrazconkie]

Ranks about to thin? Watch this space.........you ain't seen nothin yet. :mad:

[aussie027]

MetroDash etc,
what is that supposed to mean???

Is something going on there about to cause another big departure??
Where is everyone going to???
Hasn't been much advertising for Perth based jobs recently apart from Network looking for F100 jet rated drivers.

[Auxilio ab alto]

Word on the street is:

Metro fleet losing two captains,
Brasilia fleet losing three captains,
Dash fleet losing anywhere between 4 - 6 captains.

[metrodashbrazconkie]

Those numbers are probably right according to the breezeway skuttlebut. They are being enticed away by the promise of a less toxic environment in which to practice their profession.

And who said those leaving are confined to Perth? There is life outside WA you know.

[aussie027]

Does anyone have any more info on the current situation and if the numbers leaving are correct??

[metrodashbrazconkie]

4 or 5 in a week give you a clue? More to come.....

[rockapetransport]

How many moving over to network on the F100?

[metrodashbrazconkie]

One or two so far, according to the breezeway scuttlebutt.

[aussie027]

Yet another advert today for pilots.

With all the big losses in Captains reported in this thread are any FOs being upgraded or are they just trying to hire DEC over everyone already there???
50K per year as an FO on a 30-50 seat turboprop??
A pretty quick upgrade would be very desirable no doubt to those who have the required experience on type and/or good previous command experience when they are hired.

If anyone working there has info to share I would appreciate a PM chat instead of the usual bashing/ snide comments posted online. Thanks.

[volare_737]

Hi . Can anybody indicate pay for a CPT and roster ? I am currently flying in Asia and would love to come home. Thanks Guys !!!

[White and Fluffy]

http://www.fwa.gov.au/documents/agreements/fwa/AE884151.pdf

Lowest paid Dash pilots in OZ. Don't count on the productivity payments, they use it as a stick to make you tow the company line (say no to something or refuse to come in on an RDO and no productivity for you).

Roster changes everyday, not set set until 5pm the night before due to constant changes!

[volare_737]

Doesn't sound to good. Any other jobs going in Perth ?

[G Limit]

Don't believe everything you hear on Prune Volare. Do your research because whilst it's FAR from perfect, it's not as bad as some make out.

[metrodashbrazconkie]

How so G limit?

[Shed Dog Tosser]

G Limit,

Do you see posts like this one about other comparable size operators ?.

Why, well if you don't know why, you will soon enough.

Never have I worked for such a mean spirited organisation. I would happily deliver for pizza hut for the rest of my working life than ever work for Skippers again.

When I joined the organisation, all, and I mean all of my pilot buddies sat me down and strongly suggested not accepting the job, I wish I had taken their advice, to save myself a few years of misery.

Hopefully things ( i.e. management ) has changed since then.

[G Limit]

Guys,

I thought my emphasis on "FAR" from perfect may have given away the fact that I agree with some of the negative comments made here but the post about taking away productivity payments for not working RDO's was simply untrue (these days at least).

If Volare sees it as an opportunity to get back to Australia then I think Skips could be an option. I mean lets all be honest, the large amount of guys and girls who do like working there, (at least for the time being) don't waist their time with this thread so it'll be difficult to find a balanced view.

I hope that clarifies where I was coming from.

[volare_737]

I hear all the sides. Must say I have worked in many countries and its Far from perfect wherever you go. Eventually lifestyle becomes the important thing and sometimes we just have to take the bad with the good.

[metrodashbrazconkie]

You don't "have to" do anything. You can choose to take the good with the bad just like you can choose to take the good with the good.

WA's truly regional airline, by the way, will remove any enjoyment of your great lifestyle in Perth, (refer roster comments etc).

[metrodashbrazconkie]

......unlike some other airlines around.

[Shed Dog Tosser]

G Limit,

If you would like a little prospective, have a look at metrodashbrazconkies early posts, say 4 years ago, if they've not been deleted ), you will see someone with an open and positive mind on the subject, not so now, why is that ?.

I'm glad you are happy enough, believe us when we say that will change.

Volare, my advice is give them a very wide berth, IMHO every and any other operator at Perth Airport is a better option.

[G Limit]

SDT, I remember MDBC's posts when he/she first joined the debate and I too sighed at the naivety.

Anyway guys, I'd better run. I've got to eat my mystery wrap while on min rest and ponder a place on the next EBA committee which, in reality, is the best forum for making change when you think about it. **Throws cat amongst pigeons** :E

[metrodashbrazconkie]

Haha, naive maybe. There seemed endless possibilities then, and there still could be at Skips, but that would mean change and that , as we know, is scary stuff.

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Most would agree, Skippers could be the best job in aviation, I believe there needs to be a major clean out of management, an entirely different approach to the way they value their employees.

Unless there is a change of ownership, IMHO, there will never be a suitable cultural change within the management.

Wide berth.

[baron_beeza]

Is it the same for the engineering staff ?

Do they have much of a turnover ?

[metrodashbrazconkie]

Engineers? I don't know too much, but I think they are on a good deal and I haven't seen as much turnover as aircrew. Maybe they were all in a union and stuck together during the last negotiation :rolleyes: you know, didn't chicken out at the 11th hour.

[metrodashbrazconkie]

According to those who strut the hallowed halls: F100s ordered and awaiting delivery or something!!

It beggs the question then, will the deal be as good as Network or will the flow to "greener tailed pastures" continue? :cool:

[Engineer_aus]

I just got off the phone to my mate in Perth and he said that the Skippers F100 pilots are going to be looked after very well. Looking at 2 frames initially with a 3rd one down the track. Engineers have been trained up apparently ready to rock and roll.

[Icarus2001]

Best of luck to Stan and the team.

A few questions.

Where will they park them?

Who will be the clients given that the clients who have sealed airstrips already are well served by Skywest, Alliance, Network and Cobham?

Will the jets be used on the RPT coastal routes perhaps? YCAR, YSHK, YKBR, YGEL?

[metrodashbrazconkie]

You forgot "who will fly them?" No one here with any jet time is there? :ok:

[metrodashbrazconkie]

I mean it would be a real morale killer if they hired outside crews and didn't give those guys with right stuff a shot at the jet wouldn't it?

[The Love Doctor]

According to those who strut the hallowed halls: F100s ordered and awaiting delivery or something!!



Lol. Never let the truth stand in the way of a good rumor :)

[Super Ord]

"Skippers F100 pilots are going to be looked after very well"

Doesn't that go against company culture?

[Engineer_aus]

Money talks around Perth airport at the moment.