Exodus from Skippers (Merged)

[myshoutcaptain]

SDT , it would however a certain few keep trying to grind ... what a great saturday night , searching through casa trying to find anything new to add... sounds like fun.:ok:

[vee tail]

Shed dog


Good to see you contributed your usual crap.:ugh:

[flyon dawall]

Bgerk, BGERK!
There's a lot of hot air in all of this.
About time someone wrote something constructive.

[Kangaroo Court]

Twinkle, twinkle little star? Is that constructive enough? Sorry this forum is not entertaining enough for you...oh, that's right it's all about YOU!! Sorry, we all forgot!

[flyon dawall]

Hop along Kanga....

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Good to see you contributed your usual crap

Veetail,

Amongst other things which turned out to be true, who predicted your pay rise some two weeks before you were offered it, have you put much thought into that ?,,,,obviously not, good onya champ:).

[Ref + 10]

Hey folks,

Can we return to the topic please. You obviously all have a different agenda/motive when it comes to Skippers but please revert to the subject at hand. It's getting rather lame.

[bazza stub]

Well put Ref+10

A bit of info ,that wafted my way, (that I believe is worthy of note) is that a whole swag of CA's are rumoured to be leaving. Testiment to the overall Skippers way of doing business and the resident low morale?? :{

[dayjob 1]

Mr Tosser (apt name by the way) it seems that you can not post a comment that is positive the only thing that seems to emit from you is bitterness so i am assuming you are no longer in the employment of skippers if this is the case what do you care ,unless of course you did not make the grade then it is just bitter grapes why not move on if you have nothing positive or constructive to say . unless you are not good enough to

[Shed Dog Tosser]

You guys crack me up.

Word on the street: six engineers have applied for other jobs since early last week, that's really good news, i am so positive about that :).

[SSUPPDAWG]

Iam also positive........... that 3 captains and 1 F/O and around 3 F/A's
have also put in there notice this week as well.....!!:ok:
positive...!!!..........positive...:ok:;)

[EMB120ER]

Tock........................................................ .....................

[flyon dawall]

News Flash! Woopdeeeeedoooooda day, people have and always will continue to leave. Happens in every company (yes, some more than others), for what its worth had a few mates leave mainstream QF the other day to fly for J*.
For the winging unappreciative 40% of you who have entered aviation in the past 5 years, wake up to yourself and realise how good you've got it - stop bitching and get back to work!

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Heard a rumour/story about ex flight crew engaged in legal proceedings ( one of quite a few ) with/against Skippers presenting a ex-senior member of the management team as their trump card in disputing a claim against some terms of employment, and there are more current members to be called on,,,, SLAP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

I'm just brimming with positivness.

Arthur Crump you deleted your second post, you know the one where you postuled your opinions on CRM, command ability and your threats of the sky falling in etc etc, (yes i'm pretty sure anyone that knows you worked it out very easily).


Tick......................... (EMB120ER, hope to don't mind a partner in crime)

[aviationflyer]

another late night weekend post by the tosser

[spiderbat3008]

Speaking of positiveness.http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/infopop/icons/icon7.gif......hows the pay rise for the dash fos going?
Will it stop them leaving if it comes?
Will it stop the flighties from flying away if they also get one even though they are supposedly on a good wicket in comparison to skywest or the joc team.
Will it stop the ginger beers as well as they are also supposedly paid well?
DONT THINK SO http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/infopop/icons/icon4.gif

[gordonfvckingramsay]

I have been observing this thread with some interest. I only know what I have read here, but surely with all the people walking and a cadet program in place aren't CASA looking at the situation through the microscope? Experience levels must be falling rapidly.

[Monopole]

gordonfvckingramsay :D:D:D:D

I was waiting for that name to come up. One of my fav personalities (not that I've ever met him), but he calls a spade a spade a spade, much what SDT seems to be about.

The long list of ex Skippers employees far out way the current head in the sand current employees. Guys, listen from those who have been there, then enter at your will, but be very careful.. You have been warned (countless times in this forum).

[laser650]

News on the street is that another -300 is to arrive and be online in the next couple of months, but who is going to be left to drive them?
:)

[flyon dawall]

New 300....personally i wouldn't believe anything untill arrives out the front.

Monopole, head in sand hey? Speaking from experience or word of mouth, no doubt just another bitter and twisted ex-employee. I'm smelling roses and the beer tastes great!

[Monopole]

no doubt just another bitter and twisted ex-employee.No, not an ex employee, but have worked with many ex employees and have them as mates and flatmates. So I guess my comments where from word of mouth, but have I been close enough to it for a long enough to form my own opinion.

All I was suggesting was that there are more p!ssed off (ex) employees then there are content ones. So by all means join the company, but do so informed (by those on both sides of the fence).

I'm glad the beer is flowing for you though flyon. The company needs all the young, dedicated and enthusiastic crew they can get. Well done.....

I do wonder though how long it will last.

[flyon dawall]

Braz Driver, lets just say I hold the same opinion as you on cadets.

[skippers_mole]

The 'bashing' of cadets on this thread seems to never end...

Sure, there are some di*head ones there, but most are generally fine and work quite well. There are a couple who are top blokes who can also fly and operate their aircraft to a much higher standard than most non-cadet pilots.

What many people fail to realise is that having say 5000hrs in the logbook actually doesnt mean ****t. Its quality not quantity. That 5000 hrs may very well consist of poor work ethic, bad habits, poor airmanship etc etc and these traits WILL be carried through their logbook for the rest of their careers. Why are these guys still at Skippers if they dont want to be there??

The cadets however learn to operate according to SOPs, are exposed to more complex machines and mutli-crew enviroment from early on in their careers thus making them more suitable for airline operators. Take a look at where some cadets are now going or about to go...places that alot of guys drool over. Good luck to them, some actually deserve it :D

[Led Zep]

Skippers is up for sale. Yes we all know that.
Someone put an offer to the big SQ to buy the joint for the asking price.
SQ TURNED THE OFFER DOWN.

Leave you to guess who put the offer in. If you need a hint, read one of my earlier posts.

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Who in their right mind would offer the asking price for anything as big as a business or property, ahhh the smell of bull excrement.

[Mr. Hat]

The cadets however learn to operate according to SOPs, are exposed to more complex machines and mutli-crew enviroment from early on in their careers thus making them more suitable for airline operators.

you need to get your hand off it - you are actually making it worse by generalising like that.

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Skippers Mole,

No matter what you say (if it's exorbitant-fee-paying cadets you are talking about) they have jumped the queue and they make it harder for the rest of us who do not wish to put up an entire years' salary for the privilege of working... they deserve to be bashed (verbally of course). Any other talk sounds like that of a man who would cross a picket line and take a promotion on the same day.

I digress:

The cadets however ONLY learn to operate according to SOPs, are exposed to more complex machines JUST LIKE EVERY ENDORSED PILOT and ONLY THE mutli-crew enviroment from early on in their careers thus making them NO more suitable for airline operators THAN COMPUTER FLOWN AEROPLANES. (My emphasis in red.)

Whilst 5,000 hours may be more than what one needs to establish good habits never underestimate the importance of actual command hours in grooming a future decision maker (when the Standard Operating Procedures no longer apply). Having 70 PIC on PPL/CPL trainers and a fancy Dash-8 endo is madness.

FRQ CB

[bazza stub]

I bet no one can say who is and who isn't a cadet anyway, you are all just speculating. Why don't some of you put your money where your mouth is and give us an idea of how many paid for their ride. With some of the companies I've worked at the capt's are the ones you need to watch anyway :suspect:

[bushy]

Maybe they should all be cadets. It's time the airlines took some responsibility for training replacement pilots, instead of just relying on the huge pool of desperate GA pilots.
The better airlines have done the planning and training required, and have not got caught by the so called "pilot shortage" like the others say they have.

[flyon dawall]

You can normally tell within about 5-10mins who you're flying with. Lets just say, even a monkey can be taught how to fly. As FRQ CB eluded to, it's the thinking that goes hand in hand that makes the difference - the type of thinking only gained through experience, there's no substitute.
Bazza, skippers mole is a cadet. Skippers mole when you do leave be sure to leave you attitude in the breezeway garbage bin, it won't get you far.

[Fizzer]

Only 5-10 minutes to know who you are flying with !! I thought the night before would be a fair indication, are the rosters still changing that frequently ?

[aviationflyer]

i wonder how much the pays are going to change with the new financial year approaching

[bazza stub]

It will be inversely proportional to the CPI (Cadet Pilot Influx) :}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}

[ROH111]

ok... seriously...

who is left to turn the lights out at skipps?

[flyon dawall]

The jet rumour has resurfaced - Alliance takeover....

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Mmmm, jet you say ?.
http://chenzhen.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/dangling-carrot.jpg

IMHO Alliance being the buyer is plausable, the other way around is fairy dust.

[the wizard of auz]

Oo, oo Jet you say....... where do I pay to join up??. :hmm:

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Heard the ex-CEO is now with Direct Air, sure he'd come with a long list of good contacts.

Also heard a couple current contracted mine sites are having new yellow lines and "F100" painted on their aprons, Hmmmmmm.

[flightidleflat]

i wonder if the yellow f100 lines out at site have anything to do with the F100 painted up with a blue and gold tail parked in the Skippers hangar today? Any ideas?

[Icarus2001]

Which of Skippers regular "contracted mine sites" have a SEALED strip then?

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Icarus2001,

You've got me,,,, just stirring the pot :), sure a couple of the cadet types on this thread probably got themselves a little chubby, here come the cold spoon!!!!!!.

[Inter Crazy Chicks]

Alliance f100 in hangar 2 today for maintenance only (official explanation). Theres is no way Skippers will fit an f100 on their ramp anyway. XFY, D8-300 is the only new aircraft, which will be arriving soon, apparently.

[the wizard of auz]

Well I for one wouldn't pay anywhere near as much for a dash 8 job as a FKR100 job. What are they thinking??. they will never make any money like that. :E

[spiderbat3008]

Crazee Chook
So skips is getting another 300 eh...not a 100 jet type.
Lots of new tarmac space opening up out there...will need golf carts for crew transport soon eh:).

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Apparently the practice of "torpedoing" departing staff (especially Pilots) with prospective employers is alive and well, what a great guy the CP must be to allow this practice to continue.

Word has it that several ex-employees have pooled considerable resources in launching a torpedo raid of their own, good job boys, love the spirit:ok:.

It is my opinion that this operator will make LHR look like a dress rehersal.

[skycapt_73]

Dog Tosser or should it be toss pot, I cannot believe you would wish another LHR situation on anyone, are you a complete nut? are you aware 15 people lost their lives when that metro pitched in ? Do you recognise if you really believe that a LHR type situation is developing that YOU are obliged to identify it, and that the framework exists both internally and externally to Skippers for you to raise this issue? You can take this issue to fleet and company management and if you do not get an acceptable resolution then you are obliged to take the issue to CASA, If you truly believe the situation is this dire and you do not follow these guidelines are you then not partially responsible ?

I am going to make this really easy for you and tell you that yes I do work for Skippers and my initials are M S, so if you know as much about the place as you claim then you know exactally who I am.

I have read many of your posts and frankly you like to bash the company, management, cadets, cadetship scheme, other Captains in the ranks, most of the FO's, and anything that the company tries to do, some of these comments may be warranted but let me ask you have you ever offered any positive comments?, or maybe attempted to become involved in overcomming some of these issues you have continued to raise? (Oh I know your reply... your not paid to do that, or not paid enough, or maybe you just cant be bothered?) It is really easy to sit on the outside, hide your identity and tell someone that eveything they do is wrong but it takes a real man/woman to put their hand up and get involved and try to overcome these issues, have you ever tried to talk to SQ about your concerns and proposed a possible solution?


Perhaps you could put your significant wealth of knowledge about aviation, aviation safety, company structure and process, training, regulations, and finance, to good use?

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Ahhh, Sarcasm and insult are the refuge of the weak.

HERE (http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2007/AAIR/aair200703952.aspx)

Who would wish a terrible event like this to occur again, not me, i am entitled to my opinion and theres nothing you can do about it.

Well Mr MS, where there is smoke there is fire.

Bye bye.

[Shed Dog Tosser]

JetA,

Honestly could not be bothered responding to yet another party member, just wait an see, in a week, a month, a year, Mr/s MS will be back here as skycapt or in another guise joining the rest of the disgusted ex-employee's.

Turn and ran, well if thats the way you see it, i can live with that, hope you are having a great weekend :}.

[topend3]

your username says it all shed dog...

[spiderbat3008]

The web will work and hopefully avoid another LHR (if the dog really believes it'll come) and the other concerns the dog...has. Funerals are not pleasant. Lets have some positive vibes.:hmm:

[skycapt_73]

SDT, you have brought up the fuel starvation issue with XUE, and after about 3 mins of research i have found 2 other examples of fuel starvation due to issues/problems with the fuel monitoring or measuring system and equipment causing over reads (ATSBR's 200700368, 200504768). Both of these were due to reliance on the electronic fuel measuring system. SK's response was to impliment a checking procedure across all fleets once a day that ensures the fuel indication system is indicating within tolerance.

I am not sure where the smoke you speak of is but i am ready to listen if you truly believe it is there. The procedure that was previously followed (relying on the fuel monitoring equipment) was an accepted process by many operators, and since these issues have been popping up operators have implimented checking procedures similar to those implimented at SK's.

If you are suggesting that the actions of the crew were incorrect when faced with an engine failure on short finals, again a procedure has been implimented to cover immediate action in this event, but i would not be to quick to hit on the crew actions as it sounds like the A/C was yawing all over the place and the crew managed to get the A/C claned up and on the ground safely and that is the most important thing, when faced with everything that was going on they saved the A/C.

If you want to queston crew actions an throw mud maybe you could leave skippers alone for a minute and go over to the QF forum and ask how TJE suffered fuel starvation in the main tanks while the centre tank was still loaded on its way from Perth to Melb in Aug 07? (200705093), i mean almost 25000 hours of experience and no one noticed? im not sure but i dont think that has ever happened at skippers?

p.s. believe me I am no party member and i appoligise for the insult (it was late), but i do believe in constructive criticism, by the way have you put your wealth of knowledge to any good yet?

[Obidiah]

I'll place a nod and a vote for the Shed Dog Tosser's post.

I personally know a seasoned and respected pilot who went in full of vim and vigor and left very disappointedly not long after, and suffered a torpedoing to boot.

Skycapt_73

When an organisation sinks as low as this one appears to have sunk it can be safely assumed that useful communication between the troops and management is over.

Your comment regarding the fact there is a system in place either within the organisation or within CASA to have such a serious concern addressed sounds at best like gross naivety.

I am sure that if SDT thought that approaching either management or CASA would result in the concerns being acted upon in a professional and diligent manner SDT would do so. However I know that taking such action would do nothing more than label him/her a whistle blower and successfully sink his/her career.

Regarding your comments on the apparent flame out on short final, I for one, and not being privy to the finer details, would be asking some very pointed questions of what and why the crews action where what they where. Please understand I don't wish to denigrate the crew and I am sure they did the very best they could, but perhaps there was something missing in their bag of knowledge/experience which now appears to have been addressed with modified SOP's. I'll take a punt here and make an assumption, but I bet London to a brick many including management were aware of the inaccuracies of the previous fuel measuring/cross checking procedure that resulted in the incident, but were reluctant to take a proactive safety stance on the matter, and instead waited for justification for a reactive approach.

Now I wouldn't know who SDT was or is, even if I woke up along side of him/her but in light of all the negativity leveled at this company it might be time for management at all levels to attend the room full of mirrors and have a good hard look at themselves.

Lest they face the compounding humiliation of such an awful event as LHR and then have to face the collective "I told you so" from a group of supposed subordinates.

[metro_man]

Skycapt, :ok: dont let these bitter ill informed people get to you. I am new to WA and SA and i have to say to these knockers you go east and see how truly rough it really can be in aviation. I for one really enjoy my work and the company and I would have no problems walking into the ceo's office if I was having a problem that the company didnt want to resolve but as Skycapt said I would want to be constructive and have some solution based argument as apposed to just being another winger, there is enough of you out there already.

Keep on with the good fight. :cool:

[V1 Handing over]

Welcome to G.A. boys! Memorandum 08/83:- Wipe your own arse, don't expect anyone else to!

[Mr. Hat]

torpedoing?

a suitably pissed off person could take legal action against that sort of thing.

[Best Speed]

I think the biggest problem here is the amount of experience on the flight deck of these aircraft...

AKA One Engine Inoperative handling skills close to the ground....:rolleyes:

[V1 Handing over]

I think the biggest misconception is the thought that some pilots actually think flying for QF, DJ OR j* is somehow better - breakfast might be a bit warmer, thats about all.

[skycapt_73]

Best Speed, i was wondering if you had read the factual Interim Factual Report from the ATSB with respect to the actions of the crew? At 400ft AGL the report indicates that the aircraft began to yaw significantly even at the low power setting to the point where the pilot flying indentified that he could not re-establish the aircraft onto the centre line, at which point the approach was not stabilised and in keeping with SA procedures, the call to go-around was made and in keeping with any procedure I have ever seen both power levers were advanced resulting in a very significant yaw. No indication suggested the left tank was empty and due to the time taken to stabilise and clean up the aircraft and the proximity and ease of access to Wiluna the decision was made to land at Wiluna.

The reason I indicate these findings is because faced with a similar unknown failure that pushed the approach to a point at which it could not be recovered I am just wondering what you would have done? Do you think you could have wrestled the aircraft back onto the centre line within 400ft of the ground, when 2 other pilots were unable to do so? Or would you have straight away recognised the failure pulled both levers back to reduce the yaw effect and maybe landed short? What exactly would you have done? I mean 400ft is almost 1 mile from the threshold and seconds from landing?

I for one want to commend the pilots on recovering and saving the aircraft and the passengers in what would have been very busy and stressful few minutes.

It is easy to ask questions in hindsight and say every action or decision was wrong.

[Icarus2001]

I think the biggest misconception is the thought that some pilots actually think flying for QF, DJ OR j* is somehow better - breakfast might be a bit warmer, thats about all.

Let's just have a look at that shall we...

Do QF,DJ,J* ring their crews at 1600 local to advise them of the next days flying because the roster is so unstable?

Do QF,DJ,J* crews land at an RPT port, chuck off the bags, check in the pax as there is no agent, load the bags, load the fuel, complete the load sheet then blast off again?

Do QF,DJ,J* crews stand under the wing holding a fuel sample trying not to let the heavy rain get into the cup?

When QF,DJ,J* staff resign do the HR people phone ahead to their next employer and torpedo them?

No, I didn't think so...

[Mr. Hat]

I think the biggest misconception is the thought that some pilots actually think flying for QF, DJ OR j* is somehow better - breakfast might be a bit warmer, thats about all.

gotta be the dumbest thing ive come across on pprune

[V1 Handing over]

Yeah it was mr hat, got you guys talking though didn't it...
Lefty, you're a champ - wish there where more blokes like you, thank **** you got the balls to do something - best of luck.

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

So what is the latest with this mob. Have they filled their positions? Many new cadets or have they been able to get some experienced folks?

FRQ CB

[ContactMeNow]

Let's just have a look at that shall we...

Do QF,DJ,J* ring their crews at 1600 local to advise them of the next days flying because the roster is so unstable?

Do QF,DJ,J* crews land at an RPT port, chuck off the bags, check in the pax as there is no agent, load the bags, load the fuel, complete the load sheet then blast off again?

Do QF,DJ,J* crews stand under the wing holding a fuel sample trying not to let the heavy rain get into the cup?

When QF,DJ,J* staff resign do the HR people phone ahead to their next employer and torpedo them?

No, I didn't think so...

Sounds like another organisation, a little further north than Perth :=

Im sure the pilots at this palce would DREAM of a 1600L phone call...more like 1800L-2000L and if your lucky you get a 0600 wheels up!

Of get to the airport for that 0600 departure only to find you need to re-fuel the aircraft, load 300-400kg of frieght on-board and then once the flight plan is complete find out that your either 200kg over weight or you need to stop off en-route to re-fuel (to depart below MTOW) and when you tell the boss this you get your head ripped off or told (mind you infront of the new guys, "nah that plane can take off easily over-weight I have done it many times"...coming from the CP of the company and owner)

As for the torpedo act, this is this companies specialty, amongst other HR/pay roll things.....:mad:

Ahh well word got out and even the east coast knows about this outfit... funny...


CMN :E

[Mecarsa Bitrusty]

Torpedoing people like this is a f:mad:g disgrace! If they only looked after their pilots in the first place they wouldn’t have this problem! This GA outfit has a long way to go before they get out of the ****!!!!!!!!

[Engineer_aus]

Network apparently have another 7 F100's coming and contracts almost signed. However with only 2 LAME's and however little Flight Crew they have its got me buggered with how they are going to support that ops? Also apparently that US airways one came guttered.

Now whats the Go with Alliance buying out Skippers for 25mill? Surely Stan isn't going to let go just yet?

Oh and for the person talking about Skywest, how are they going to manage any more contracts when they can't even service their current contracts? They just took 2 more routes off National Jet and they think they are going to be able to depart 6 F100's at the same time. Newcrest are seriously P!ssed at XR and really want to go back to NJS. I am sure RIO are going to find out the same.

[Mecarsa Bitrusty]

So why is it that Skippers missed the boat getting jets? With Skywest, Alliance and Network all now heavily involved with jets on the WA mining circuit and the possibility of QF and Virgin ramping up their WA jet operations, It seems funny that all Skippers can offer is a second hand D8-300 from Europe that probably doesn’t even have an APU to keep the punters cool on a balmy 40 degree summers day! :ugh:

[V1 Handing over]

At $13 million an airstrip i.e. to upgrade satisfactorily for jet ops. Short term skips and the dash still have a place in the mining sector, but for how long?
"Barrack" management are in the process of sourcing 2 jets of their own - cutting out the middle man so i'm led to believe.

[Engineer_aus]

The DHC8-300 comes with a APU or you will be changing batteries on a regular basis.

[MACH082]

I would leave out claims of being told to fly "overweight" Lawsuit waiting to happen, and if you do - you are the PIC, Bucks stop with you :ok:

[ContactMeNow]

I would leave out claims of being told to fly "overweight" Lawsuit waiting to happen, and if you do - you are the PIC, Bucks stop with you

Never said the company TOLD the pilots to fly over-weight... I said the CP and owner brag about how it can be done and how they have done it (yes if you ask them they will tell you..."back in the day when I was flying I HAD to fly over-weight if I wanted a job") little do they know how healthy the industry is now...

I.e the "she will be right" attitude..

One might put it as an extremely poor safety CULTURE.... just an observation :8

[Mecarsa Bitrusty]

Engineer aus

Correct me if I’m wrong? but skippers are currently operating at least 2 dash 300’s without APU’s and are conducting battery starts on a daily basis, yes some starts do get on the hot side, but hot starts are rare. Apparently the company does supply portable battery packs for such a start. My original comment regarding the APU relates to a mate who fly’s with this company (pax) and has commented on the lack of aircon on hot summers day at PH and at site, walking in to a hot cabin with no air until engine start. This may be fine at this time of the year but I find it hard to believe that a big company like this could be that tight and not supply APU power/aircon when operating into the remote sites that Skippers do.

ContactMeNow

I hope we aren’t talking about Skippers now, are we?

[ContactMeNow]

I hope we aren’t talking about Skippers now, are we?

No, not skippers my friend...

[V1 Handing over]

Safety culture, hmmm lets see extinct comes to mind; if it exists its fake. Fortunately there a few of us that still have morals.

Skips Ops manual needs to be revised to reflect true way in which the company operates:-
Chapter 1. Schedule
Cahpter 2. Schedule
Chapter 3. Schedule

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Sorry to kick a dead horse (you know to try and make it run again) but I'm quite keen to know if anyone can answer my previous question:

So what is the latest with this mob. Have they filled their positions? Many new cadets or have they been able to get some experienced folks?

I went for an interview a while back but then (after spending considerable money and taking leave that I didn't actually have on the books) I was told that I didn't have the experience or qualifications that they required. I was quite annoyed as they knew full well what my experience and quals were when they invited me for an interview. Of course if I simply failed to impress at the interview I can understand that... but that's not the reason they gave.

Perhaps I'm being too cynical but I can't help but feel that they had some queue-jumper with a fresh CPL and a ticket from Fast Track who was going to cost less up front.

And saying, as many of my mates do, that I'd be better off at another company anyway is cold comfort when one has a family to feed.

FRQ CB

PS Again, sorry for the negativity.

PPS Who reckons they know who I am now? :)

[V1 Handing over]

FRQ CB,

Skips operate with a reactive management style, one minute they think they're on top of things, the next....

My guess is they found some cadet - you know the type, bank cheque hanging out of daddys pocket.

Probably a blessing in disguise, Family v ATSB, I know which one I'd choose.

[bushy]

If you lend someone $20-00 and you never see them again, it was probably worth it.

[skycapt_73]

V1, im not sure where you are getting your information and I for one and sick and friggin tired of all this crap about cadets at skippers, so to all you knockers and know it all’s, the REAL number of cadets in Skippers over the last 12 months can be counted on 1 hand! Yes that’s right....there are none on the Bras fleet, 2 on the Dash fleet and 1 on the Metro fleet, now lay that against the direct entry intake of the past 12 months on the Dash and Metro fleets alone, 4 Captains (3 dash and 1 metro), and 7 FO’s (across both dash and metro, some of which will be capt’s at some stage) and that’s 3 out 11 of the starters that were cadets if you included the bras direct entry FO's the ratio is even greater. I happen to know pretty well all of the recent cadets and they are good people and good pilots (some even considered excellent), I have spoken to several Captains on both Metro and Dash fleets and these cadets you keep dumping on are all considered experienced and capable pilots. (I think there is one additional cadet in the holding pattern waiting for a cadet opening).
Additionally I have a family, and I am studying at UNI and I am making it work along with many other pilots at skippers.
Lastly, um which barrack sites would these jets you speak of be able to operate into? You said yourself its $13 mill to upgrade a gravel strip, cost to benefit’s says they wouldn’t do both, purchase and upgrade the strips so why would they do either?.

FRQ, I understand that all the negative ill informed advisors may be sending you a dark message but I for one enjoy working for the company, however I do agree with some previous advice from V1 Handing over, and that is to "wipe your own butt and don’t expect anyone else to" (I think that goes for cover you own as well), also join AFAP or the TWU (as advised by Lefty)( I think its good advice to do this no matter where you may work). I think as with all GA this company has its pros and cons but as I say I like it and I have been here over 12 months. With respect to the intake the only advice I can offer is that the company is always looking for good aircrew if you have been through the process I would keep in touch with the CP by email (available on the web site) and keep skippers informed of your current situation and advise your interest.

[V1 Handing over]

Skycapt or should i say more appropriately groundf/o,

They're the facts, like it or lump it.
Re the great debate "cadets" yeah there're some great guys but that doesn't mean they're aviators; instant aviator, just add water a sprinkle of salt and a Braz, dash or meatro endo, get your hand off it, how far up your preverbial is your head?

On a lighter note, I'm glad to see you've jumped on the CP's band wagon, the company needs more people like yourself in that respect, i hear RF likes a big mouth too. Watch your back, you can bet your last dollar he won't do the same for you.

12 Months hey, geees are you checked to line yet?

P.S. I thoroughly enjoyed my time there too, gideeup :ok:

[skycapt_73]

V1, I am on nobody’s bandwagon and your information is again less than accurate, I am not grounded and have never been so, last week I flew in excess of 20 hours and flew 4 of 5 days, but if you could find your way clear of the bitter haze you live in you might actually be able to get some fact base information you might have a clue.
I notice you never manage to backup any of the info you had been posting when quizzed? So here is another chance to qualify your comments and offer some real information on Barack and these Jets and explain how an ROI (that’s return on investment) would work for the purchase of Jets and then the upgrade of gravel strips to justify a commitment to do both? Here is a little help the saving someone would need to make to have a 5 year or less ROI which is the most corp finance teams would usually approve is in excess of 5 mill a year that’s $96,150 a week after all costs is there that kind of saving from running your own jets? Try and get some kind of substance behind your rumours and stop diverting the attention from your lack of knowledge, don’t worry I don’t expect you to have any answers cause hey that just not what you do is it?
You seem to think you know me so you will know I have been stuffed around somewhat, am I bitter... nope, I truly love what I do, and truth is that I have not now nor never liked the path or what has happened to me since I joined but I accept it which is something you do when you are paid to work for someone, you suck it up and do what your paid for or you go some place else!, I chose to stay and accept it ( sure I might bitch about it to my friends from time to time but I don’t trash the company publicly for doing what they need or choose to do, its their prerogative ), I thank god I finally get to do something I truly enjoy, and you, just continue to take it all for granted and continue to think the world owes you.
If you really want to know what it feels like to be shagged go work 12 and 14 hours days 7 days a week in a thankless industry doing a job you don’t like but you have to do to earn money, like 6 in 10 west Australians who don’t get to do what they love for a job.

Lastly if you think you can run a company so much better for the sake of everyone GO AND DO IT!

[Shed Dog Tosser]

V1 Handing Over,

I call your bluff,,,, whats my name then, you can use initials if you like.

Go on holidays for a week and look what I missed.

SkyCapt, you appear not to understand what is being spoken of here, as far as your claims:
cadets you keep dumping on are all considered experienced and capable pilots, Really ?, how about they try getting a job elsewhere, you know in a company where you can not pay for your job.

[chimbu warrior]

Not sure if that is correct (seems a lot), but a large European agency is advertising for F100 Captains for a six month contract in Australia.....

[roger_ramjet]

Skycapt - finally someone with some intelligence on this site.
I'm sure you realise already this industry is still stuck in the old fashioned culture of "do your time living in a caravan washing the CP's car every morning and hoping to get 0.1 hrs doing a maintenance circuit in the 152".

Aviation is moving forwards, pushing every pilot through a GA apprenticeship is unsustainable for the growth of the industry, hence many companies have had to start cadet/traineeships to keep quality applicants filling the right hand seat. QFlink and Skipps are just two examples. Cadet and trainee schemes are also a response to the highly mobile pilot workforce - why recruit someone with 2000TT and 500multi when they will leave at the first opportunity, a cadet can be bonded and doesn't have the hours to go elsewhere for years to come - so which is the best choice from a manager's point of view?

The people that had to put up with the hardship of a GA apprenticeship are always going to be bitter about the new generation not having to do it.

[skycapt_73]

AH, SDT you font of all things true and correct..... NOT, if you knew anything you wouldnt not have asked (why dont these cadets get a job elsewhere?), because some of these cadets are doing realy well, 1 recently went to an excellent and prestigious job , another has a couple of jet offers and is weighing up the options, this just goes to show that the program is finding valuable people, not just people who have simply done their time or logged some hours.

again what a valid input you have been.

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Skycapt,

because 1 recently went to an excellent job

You just keep telling yourself that........

[skycapt_73]

I will do SDT or again was it TP?, and you just continue to tell yourself that the comments you make here are worthwhile or of any value to anyone but yourself.
I again challenge you to utilise your superior knowledge and intellect on all thing aviation to solve the problems of this business and not just continue to point out the problems and failings.

[slice]

skycapt 73 ......let go....the hate will destroy you!:E

[Towering Q]

Just a query Skycapt, why do you use large black font in your posts?

It does make them a little easier to read but it is not as effective as breaking up your longer posts into paragraphs.

Oh, and with the hate thing....just make room for it, breath out slowly and you'll be fine.:ok:

[flyon dawall]

Skycapt.

SDT is onto something here...

You wana no what the problem with this business is; problems and failings are one of the same, people like you, who think they know everything & annoy the hell out of those of us who actually do.

Quote: "the team (using the term loosly) is only as strong as its weakest link".

[bazza stub]

Gentlemen, gentlemen, please can we keep this thread pure and confine our verbal attacks to the company? One common enemy here. :p

[Skystar320]

come on grab a seat and pull it alongside....

Might even get you some popcorn

[Mecarsa Bitrusty]

The Australian Fri 18th July 2008


SKIPPERS

DASH – BRASILIA - METRO PILOTS
Skippers are seeking suitably experienced pilots to fill PIC and F/O positions on our expanding Dash 8, Brasilia & Metro fleets. Endorsed applicants are preferred, however applicants possessing multi-crew experience on similar types are also encouraged to apply.
Please visit XXXXXXXXXXXXX to view our entry criteria and lodge and application, or email your resume to: XXXXXXXXXXXX

Good luck!
Maybe if they follow in the footsteps of Surveillance Australia, regarding T&C’s, and sack half the current management, just maybe then they can attract type rated pilots!

[the wizard of auz]

Gosh!!!! rumor has it that one of the most experienced captains on staff told em to stick it and walked out.
Soooooo that would be five Metro's and three captains....... doesn't work out so well I guess. Now how are they going to service the up coming woodside contract when none of the current crop of metro captains meet the contract minimum requirements?..
Now where did I leave that spare 30K. I really wanna work there now they have all that room. :ok:

[bazza stub]

"told em to skick it and walked out"

What could have prompted such an out burst I wonder?

[Led Zep]

Nothing a Network/Skywest/National Jet/Alliance/Maroomba/Direct Air/Star Aviation cross hire won't fix.:E

[Ref + 10]

Except that many operators will no longer do cross hires for them.

Too many times bookings have been made only to be cancelled two hours prior to departure. Not nice when other work was turned down due to the already made booking. Sure this is the nature of the business but it used to happen several times a week, sometimes 2 or 3 three times in a single day.

[flyon dawall]

Has anyone recieved the CPI end of financial year salary increase as per para G5 of the AWA?

G5. The base remuneration rates payable under this agreement will be adjusted annually effective from the first pay period after the 1st July 2008. The rates will be adjusted by the CPI (12 months all groups) as published by the Australian Bureau of Statistics.

4.5%

[spiderbat3008]

Are AWAs still the go??
I believe you cant get the increase until the AFPA have done something to it unless the increase is from the last CPI adjustment before the latest.
Supposedly takes a while and at least long enough to nearly be forgotten about......and possibly not backpaid.........at least thats how it was a few years ago.

[flightidleflat]

Word on the PER apron is 2 more clapped out Dash 8 100's coming soon. Ex Qantaslink apparently. Anyone know anymore? Where are they going to park them, let alone crew them, if it's true????

For a company that, according to PPRuNe, "isn't doing so great", the growth doesn't seem to be slowing?

[the wizard of auz]

Is it really growth?.......... Or is it a case of using aircraft that they have the most crew available for?. :E

[myshoutcaptain]

for a company that, according to PPRuNe, "isn't doing so great", the growth doesn't seem to be slowing?

flightidleflat - :D :D:D:D:ok:

[Skystar320]

Word on the PER apron is 2 more clapped out Dash 8 100's coming soon. Ex Qantaslink apparently. Anyone know anymore? Where are they going to park them, let alone crew them, if it's true????

They are not clapped out machines, they are really brute of a machines -106 powered aircraft with APU's. There are six available which would complely get rid of the EMB-120's.

The idea was to transition to an all Dash 8 fleet [100/300] ASAP, meaning the EMB-120 / Metro 23's are going. Seems that they are going towards it

Cunning move by Skippers, I wish them well

[HEALY]

I thought the crewing on the Braz was the most concrete and stable out of all the fleets. Little different to 12 months ago mind you.

If the RPT is expanding to the point of putting on Dash's instead of the Braz and the mines are still cracking the s##ts about having reduced bums on braz seats in summer then may not be a bad road to go down.

Having said that I still think there is a market for the E120.

[Skystar320]

Having said that I still think there is a market for the E120.


Interesting, can you explain further?

When you look at the Dash 8, it really is a trimpuh from that of the EMB-120. By operating one type of fleet instead of several, definate saving you $$$$ with maintenance, crewing etc costs

[Mecarsa Bitrusty]

Why would Skippers want to part with the Braz? The speed of this aircraft over the standard sector wins hands down over the Dash, the pax and crew love them!

Any news of crew conversions from Braz to Dash?

So why did they advertise over the last few weeks for Braz and Metro crew?

Sounds like a nice rumour to me, no more Dash for this mob! ;)

[vee tail]

Sky star where did you pluck the getting rid of Braz from.
That has never been the case. Why the *&%k would you spend thousands on major C checks and then get rid of them.
Complete rumour pot smoking garbage.

The metro and ole conky well that is a different story:ok:

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Arriving prematurely is quite acceptable for Braz folk I am sure. However, isn't it also important to be able to sit on the throne and peruse the Friday Australian aviation section for a better job without being too cramped? :8

[flyon dawall]

Mecarsa, objectively I beg to differ, the routes skippers fly the extra 20-30kts makes a bees dick of a difference ............we're all slowed to 180kts for the home run into perth :yuk: ATC grrrrr

[flightidleflat]

2 x Dash 8-100's have been officially announced as arriving late August and early September respectively.

From the same source, I heard yet another interesting rumour. I look forward to reading the posts from the PPRuNe experts that will discount it!

In the not too distant future, Skippers will be launching a financial interest into Alliance Airlines.

Apparently, it will allow both operators to increase capacity in their respective markets, and will allow Skippers to have a good go at the likes of Network, NJS and Skywest. Alliance will operate an F100 on Skippers behalf out of PER, and/or the east coast to WA minesites, and Skippers will operate lower capacity types on the east coast on behalf of Alliance.

Who knows how much substance there is too this one, but on the surface it makes some sense to me and the people, who, actually work at Skippers and Alliance, that i've discussed it with.


SQ is cashed up from a recent business interest sale.
Alliance are apparently struggling $$$$ wise
Skippers needs to increase capacity to compete with Network, NJS, etc
It allows a new type into the skippers fleet, without having to worry about crewing, training, maintenance, etc.
Alliance will actually have a base to work from in PER, as opposed to a box in T3 and a tin shed in the Hawker Pacific hangar
Skippers will be able to enter the east coast market of QLD with greater ease where FIFO is rapidly growing


So there it is. I'm sure the experts which are the PPRuNe aviation business gurus will hit this for six, but worth having a think about i guess.
:ok:

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Find it hard to believe that Alliance is having financial difficulties, have you noticed the calibre of their contracts ?.

My money would be on Alliance taking over Skippers, standardising the turbo prop fleet and cutting the culturally challenged dead wood, that I would believe.

[Led Zep]

Hey, makes sense to me. Add a small number of quills to the tail of the F100s and suddenly WA’s Truly Regional Airline has jets!



Conversely, take a few quills off and all of a sudden Alliance has a handful of 4 million hour Conquests. :}
No, really, I'm skeptical but this is a rumour network. I'll sit back and watch with interest. I mean F50s and D8-300s...? And -100s?! AND EMBs!? Sounds like Ansett's perfect fleet. :E:E:E
I'm thinking along the lines of SDT. I find it hard to believe that Alliance are strapped for cash, considering their contracts and the amount of QF Link work they are doing.

[Skystar320]

My idea is working well then:

FK100
Dash 8-300
Dash 8-100

& lose Metro 23 / Conquest / EMB-120 -

[F111]

And what about the 5 F50s Alliance have just purchased? I can't see them operating to 50 seat types. There were rumours 12-18 months ago that Alliance may have been a bit tight on cash, but since then they have picked up some good contracts (ie QF work) on both the East and West Coast.

[Skystar320]

F50's can easily be sold as there is a market for them. However Dash 8-300's you would find have far better 'common' here in Aus re maintenance / parts / pilots and still Bombardier are maufuacturing Dash 8-300's

A split between Dash 8-100 / 300 / Fokker F100 are a nice touch

[G Limit]

"We've purchased all the computer hardware for electronic baggage check-in" (staff newsletter) Trying to combat the morning terminal debacle? Or preparing for F100 type pax numbers?

The Alliance F100 in the hanger the other week was no coincidence nor was it a gesture of goodwill to a "competitor".

[Mecarsa Bitrusty]

Word is that Terminal staff got a pay rise and are now on more than Braz and Dash FO’s! WTF! :ugh:

[F111]

The 5 F50's Alliance operate are 'High' Tqe engines which are not that common. They purchased these 5 for the performance they give out of shorter strips.

Alliance/Flight West don't care about common types otherwise they would not have purchsed the F100. When FWA purchased the F100 other operators were operating or adding to the 146 fleets.

[flyon dawall]

50 odd G to sit around doing sweet FA, not a bad job if you can get it, heard a few of the F/A's are planning to apply, i might too :ok:

[Atlantic55]

I'll hop to China if the terminal staff are getting paid that much

[Flokkered]

if the rumours are true about a merger then why was one of QQs managers very recently spotted at NW trying to suss out access to their new hangar and F100 GSE :=? Plus QQ are going through engies and ops staff at PER like you wouldn't believe (4 ops supervisors and 5 engies in last 6 months :ugh:). Hopefully the rumours are true - sometimes a merger is a good excuse for a clean slate.
Flok:}

[Little_Red_Hat]

Couple years back my father had to make a work trip to Meekatharra. Booking the ticket, I clearly remember it being printed with a flight number of QQxxx. I remember at the time thinking it was odd, as I had thought QQ was an Alliance code, not Skippers. Interesting.

[Flokkered]

Yes you are correct, what part of the post didn't you get?

[bazza stub]

Why would Alliance want to have anything to do with a company where, 1. neither hand knows what the other is doing, 2. everybody wants to work somewhere else and 3. not even a great big shiny orange carrot (i.e. command for everybody) is keeping guys interested? Bad for business I recon! Surely a company that big could just go and buy a couple of Dash's etc if they want them that badly!

[barbarrosa]

Brazilian Bird your right the mines do set very strict minimums for not only the crews total times but also the experience base of its maintenance provider. Ive worked for 4 regionals that operate fly in fly out and when the mines sent their Auditors in it is much more intense than any CASA audit I've been involved with because they use industry professionals to carry out the audit.:O
Regionals like Skippers have always been the stepping stone for progression to something larger and will continue that way, there has been at least one pilot return to Skippers in the last 12 months after realising that the grass wasn't as green as it looked and the deal at Skippers wasn't too bad, they rarely do overnights or weekends so they get a stable life at home, plus with the increasing size of the Dash 8 fleet there is progression in house to larger aircraft.

[barbarrosa]

Vee Tail is right except for the cost of a c check is hundreds of thousands each, not something you can recoup if you sell the aircraft, the same with the SIDs on the 441 why spend 120K plus to get an extra 1400 hrs if it isn't worth it and your not a serious player?? The additional Dash 8's are good machines the only reason more haven't been purchased is they are as rare as rocking horse poo and operators just don't get rid of them. The dash 8 fleet will continue to grow as aircraft become available for sale, having a diverse fleet isn't the most cost effective option with regards to crewing and maintenance however it keeps your client base varied and wide from small operations that only need to move a few people once or twice a week into unsealed strips to regular shift changes and shutdowns of large numbers of people. Skippers covers a large range of options by having a varied fleet to cater to clients needs.:ok:

[barbarrosa]

No truth to Alliance buying out Skippers for 25 Mil, but maybe the other way around??;)

[barbarrosa]

Pleasing to see a rumour I started 2 months ago when the F100 was in the shed because it had to be jacked (using skywest jacks)has blossomed so well.
The old saying sticks true if you have't heard a good rumour by 09:00. :Estart one:E

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Humour me Barbarrosa, how much do you think it would cost to buy Alliance ?, whilst everything is for sale, i doubt very much they would be selling when they are growing so rapidly, far more than any other operator.

Historically speaking SQ does not buy booming businesses.

[flyon dawall]

Sounds to me like you enjoy the sound of your own voice, beat your chest a bit harder 'barbarrosa', it'll make you feel better.

It's all crap, the only thing immenant is another exodus...........

[bazza stub]

...................and this exodus will be totaly devastating if all those interviews currently happening turn into jobs!! :ok:

[flyneehao]

Talking about interviews at skippers, are they really happening?
According to pilot.staffcv.com last time any employer did a search was on 28/05/2008.
Is there something I don't know or have missed???

[aussie027]

Im curious, what is the current situation like at Skippers for people who actually work there now???

I know they are looking for people.
Are there sufficient people left to do adequate training on any of the types in a short time frame??
What are the current payscales for each type and seat and T& C like????
Any info from current employees would be helpful.
A few facts please as opposed to the speculation and bashing.
Thanks

[flyon dawall]

Current situation; two words - poorly managed!
Aussie, to be honest it really depends what fleet your on, I can only speak for the 50 seat category. If you're the type to get involved in politics you might as well save yourself some suffering and slit your wrists now. On a brighter note, the flying, the guys and the F/A's are great and good fun. Current training personel (a good guy) is a stretched comodity.
Salary prob better covered in prev posts i.e. if you sift back through the thread your bound to find something but broadly speaking around the 45g/ 95g incl of super depending what seat your butt is in.

[barbarrosa]

Hey Tosser,I don't think SJQ will buy Alliance but 25Mil for Skippers is rediculous, thats the point I was making although I could see someone who was cashed up and owned all their aircraft (no leases)and facilites doing a deal with with someone who was expanding rapidly and may be having growing pains with cash flow that had a mutual benefit. If you know SJQ you will know he doesn't do it for love its all about getting bigger. I did some work for Alliance a while back when they launched the big expansion and they some cash flow issues then because the aircraft in the shed sometimes had to wait for parts till they did a few extra charters, ask acouple of engineers that have been with them for a few years.

[flyneehao]

Is Skippers still using pilot.staffcv.com as official recruiting website for flight crews?
That website has been dead for quite some time now...:(

[Shed Dog Tosser]

I hear a very strong rumour "ze gestapo" is a bigger threat to this organisation than any other, apparent concerns about "appropriate management structure / experience levels", be it personnel or actual reporting structure, we may soon see.

http://www.worth1000.com/entries/313500/313826InPM_w.jpg

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

No big mystery:

Alliance Air
IATA Code: QQ
Airline Name: Alliance Air
Address: P.O. Box 1126, Eagle Farm, Brisbane, Queensland 4009 Australia
Phone: +61 (0)7 3212 1212
Fax: +61 (0)7 3212 1297

[Mecarsa Bitrusty]

So with the new Dash 8’s on their way, how are things shaping up for Skippers in the near future?

Are there many suitable candidates going through the interview process?

What are the current ground school numbers like?

Has there been any talk of a pay increases to try and stabilise their pilot ranks?

How many have had interviews elsewhere recently?

[Monopole]

I dont know how much more you could reasonably pay a Braz or Dash crew and stay competitive.

Besides, it doesn't matter how much you get paid, if your treated like fodder, you will leave.

[bazza stub]

Word on the street is that one F/O just turned down command. Money seemingly isn't the only thing to these guys, maybe T&Cs are. :ugh:

[Green gorilla]

Think he or she does not want to be bonded for the command.

[bazza stub]

That must be it. I mean who in their right mind would turn down Dash command? :confused:

[Green gorilla]

I have never worked for them so take it with a pinch of salt the company does you a worth of good as they make you look to other operators how many pilots flying airliners can look at skippers and say they gave me the break.

[Bagot_Community_Locator]

how many pilots flying airliners can look at skippers and say they gave me the break.


How many operators (such as Skippers) can look at airline pilots and say that they built their business success through the shafting (use/abuse of) pilots !!

Yes, we got well and truly shafted in GA (work for free, underpaid, etc...) and if the company paid us by the book (the award including all entitlements), then they would not have survived !!

[Kangaroo Court]

If you worked for free, the said company does not deserve to survive...nor do you in this business. Go sell yourself in Kings Cross if all that you see yourself as is as a worthless whore.

[Bagot_Community_Locator]

Sorry kangaroo court, I and am not the worthless whore that you say I am.

I never did work for free though I am sure many others did.

When I mentioned pilots working for free, I wasn't talking about myself. I never worked for Skippers either. It was just a general statement about what many others did throughout their career with various operators (not necessarily Skippers).

[bushy]

O Poor bugger me.
It is because of the stream of pilots working for nothing, paying for icus, a very few shortsighted cheapskate operators and a government that relies on publicly supported operators that others cannot compete with that GA is the way it is.

EVERYBODY has to treat GA with much more respect and look at the long term if GA is to develope the way it should.
The outback will not develope properly without a healthy GA. The gold and oil will stay in the ground.

GA is also an indicator of what our airlines will become. And we cannot get GA right without some sort of financial handout.

We are doing it wrong if the whole industry needs handouts to survive.

[flyon dawall]

Crisis management version 3.03, problem solved 457 visa.................

[Mecarsa Bitrusty]

So the first of the ex red tails have arrived, I spotted the first one parked over on the remote today.

[Led Zep]

Hangar 1 has had one in it for a couple of days now, and then there was the other parked at the international.
Now, who's gonna fly 'em???? :}

[Kangaroo Court]

I agree with Bushy 100% on this one. Nobody has the desire to fix G/A as they are afflicted by Shiny New Jet syndrome. G/A provided us with a great foundation of flying skills, fond memories and a true understanding of the enormous cost burden on any operator who chooses to do it properly.

The service to remote communities cannot go unnoticed.

G/A could be fixed if the industry would take itself seriously, rather than run around in circles.

[mattedfred]

i heard skippers lost 2 captains and 1 dash8 fo to surveillance australia recently

[AussieNick]

with what SA are offering their crews now i'm not surprised

[DC323]

Does anyone know how the numbers are on the metro fleet? Last I heard they were in diabolic need of crews, both F/Os and Capts.

[Shed Dog Tosser]

DC, from what i've heard,five Metro's and 4 Captains, dozens of FO's mainly cadets.

A number of these have been with the organisation ~9+months, still no where near checked to line ( apparently less the 35 flight hours in nine months ), but it gets better,,

Cadets signing up for slots now, having to apparently sit on their hands unpaid untill at the earliest JAN09, then wait greater than 9 months to check to line.

Can Pilots new to the industry be that desperate ?, stupid stupid stupid.

And to the rumour of Skippers buying out Alliance, we haven't heard that corker for a while, come flyon, spin that one again.

[Skystar320]

shed wasnt it the other way around, alliance buying skipeprs?

[Shed Dog Tosser]

:ok:More SA Pilots milling around the domestic terminal in the last week or so in very nice suits carrying CV's and logbooks, one of these Captains checked to line on type not that long at all, good to see some things never change :).

[Q4NVS]

Having gone back more than 12 months on this thread, is there anyone that can provide updated T&C's for Skippers Dash 8 Captains and FO's?

:zzz:

[skippers_mole]

Having gone back more than 12 months on this thread, is there anyone that can provide updated T&C's for Skippers Dash 8 Captains and FO's?

CAPT ~ 90K

FO ~ 48K

excluding super, no allowances on top of this.

FO conditions actually worsened with introduction of 90 days resignation notice and yearly max flying hours increased to 1000

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

:eek:Capt $90K (incl super), you'd get that flying a C310 for Slingair with a few hours under your belt ($80K plus super according to latest advert).

FRQ CB

[Green gorilla]

Think he said 90 excluding super.

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Oops, but still close.

[G Limit]

Oops, but still close. Not close by a long shot to a Slingair 310 on $80k! :=

[bazza stub]

Q4,

The deal with this "company" is simple.

It looks and sounds ok, but when you really get to know what they are like you will do what almost everybody is currently doing and that is start looking elsewhere. The bond is keeping people there until it is at a level which is not going to send them broke.

T & C fade into irrelevance once you have dealt with them for a while.

Don't do it my friend!! :uhoh:

[Towering Q]

you'd get that flying a C310 for Slingair with a few hours under your belt ($80K plus super according to latest advert).

I had to go and check the AFAP site myself....amazing....never thought I'd see the day when GA charter operators started paying reasonable coin.:ok:

[bazza stub]

One of my buddies who works for skippers says the dash fo's are being worked like slaves. They seem to be doing long duty periods every day because there arent enough of them. Where did they all go was there another exodus?

[aussie027]

Does Anybody who actually works there have any accurate inside info to back up or refute Bazza stub's buddies comments???

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Yes, the deafening sound of silence has all but taken up my once favourite thread.

FRQ CB

[exmexican]

On a slightly different note, did anyone else with super at TAIST experience a sharp intake of breath when reading the names of the directors in the latest report? I am informed that our former colleague from Skippers has "very little to do with the performance of the superannuation plan" and will soon be forced to exit the organisation due to the nature of his appointment. Phew!

[metro_man]

one of my best mates is an FO on the dash fleet, there has been a little movement around, several FO's upgraded to commands, one or two moved on to much better things (gocat) and a one on leave at the moment in the UK. I wouldnt say they are being worked like dogs but most of them are seeing 9 days flying a fortnight with maybe 1 or 2 doubles. The rosters are still pretty liquid but it doesnt seem to bother him to much at the moment.

[Mecarsa Bitrusty]

Hey guys, as this thread has sort of come back to life, I was wondering how things are going down at Skippy’s town.

What’s the current time to command for the Braz and Dash boys/girls? (Have they employed any girls lately?)

How is recruitment going in the current economic climate, has it stopped, are layoffs on the cards?

And finally,

How is staff morale at the moment, T&C’s etc, with little movement in the industry how do people feel about spending a little longer at this company than they may have originally planned?

Cheers,

MB

[aussie027]

MB has asked some good Q.
Does anyone have any equally good, accurate answers out there????

[HEALY]

The time to Command is still generally around the 12 month and maybe even less still. Interestingly when you go back maybe the last 2 years of threads sorrounding Skippers you will get the obvious impression they are on there knees and about to close the doors....but as with just about every company that gets given this tag they keep going and going. For a company that has battled to keep pilots in the breezway they aren't likely to lay any off...that would be a little premature in my opinion.

As much as the downturn is going to slow mining work down across the board in Perth you will find that have a couple of Dash 100's sitting on the ground will have less of an impact than a jet with a couple of engines at the back. I think also that they are in a fairly good spot to ride out the downturn and if you get a slot regardless you will have a good chance of progression within the company.

Yes they have employed females in the past and there is as far as I know a couple still in the company. I guess morale depends on what YOU make of it. I had a great time there and alot of my mates still there are enjoying it. Yes, people have been "done over" in the past but I am sure that happens in alot of companies (refer to Skywest thread).

The contract / bonding stuff has changed many times even when I was there so that I cannot help with to give an accurate idea however it works for some and not others. It may seem a little harsh if in your plans you are deciding to leave at the first sniff of a better job but if you are committed to putting in 2 or 3 years with the chance of early progression then it is a stable safe job. (Stable doesn't represent the roster mind you...that hasn't changed from what ive heard)

Most of this is a little bias because I really enjoyed my time there however I also respect that some people have not had the same level of job satisfaction or had a difficult departure from the company. Get the facts, read the contract and good luck;)

[metro_man]

Firstly... Healy!!!! now there is a name that still freaks me out, for someone who hasnt been around for almost 12 months the fear has not left the building.

secondly MB and AUS, as apposed to the above mentioned i do work at this place at this time and do enjoy it quite a bit, the time to command is very dependant on exp, you could walk into a command if the time was right but i think there might be a number of FO's at least in the dash fleet required but talking to the D8 fleet mgr he is looking for 20 capts and fo's and they are well short there.

We have 3 girls in at present, one metro and one D8, and one c441 in Broome

Recruitment is still on the go i was told today, more capts and fo's starting on the d8 fleet in the next few months and couple on the bras.

staff morale is pretty good throughout both fleets you mentioned and the metro fleet is really pretty good. T&C's have not changed much in the last 12 months and i don’t think people are that concerned about staying a little longer, most people are enjoying the flying, couple have issues with scheduling (which has been going on for years) and also a couple of issues with ops, but really the job is what you make it, and it has potential to be pretty good really.

I think the company is really set well to weather the current economic environment, a lot of the contracts are pretty safe, and any shrinkage would probably be small and suit the company as it is pretty tight for crews.

[HEALY]

I didn't scare anyone that much did I? Ah who am I kidding. Things certainly sound a little more stable than 18 months ago when the grim reaper turned up at the end of month bbq's and meat raffle:}

Oh! now I understand..no I not "THAT" Healy

[vee tail]

Healy you did scare me a bit with your jokes.

Is there an truth ti the rumour that M.C the head of flight ops is gone and the ato that flies both dash and bras is now him????? you know the dude that really hates the word " noted ":E

[Ref + 10]

Hahahahaha. Never worked at Skippers but did fly with the "dude" you mention. Funny, funny stuff.....

[HEALY]

No, he became head of flight standards and as far as I know MC is still head of flight ops. Still, things may have changed.

[aussie027]

I received an email fom MC just last week.
Has he left since then?????:uhoh:

[metro_man]

vee, healy, ref & Aussie.... where are you getting this stuff from?, the man who wears the highvis with "noted" on the back is still just what he was, an ATO and training capt for both fleets, the Flight Std Mgr is stll the same bras capt he was since april of last year and the Flight Ops Mgr is still the same senior dash capt he has been since before i started working at the place. How come no one ever has any good rumors about my fleet? huh were still cool arent we?

[The Green Goblin]

Cause no one wants to fly a metro hahahahaha

I fly one (on occasion) :ok:

[Ref + 10]

metro-man: I just re-read my last post and I don't think I said anything nasty about DR. If in fact that is who you are referring too, I always enjoyed the flying I did with him.

Your fleet is just lovely too by the way :p :}

[metro_man]

Gents, sorry nothing nasty was said about anyone, ref sorry if i have given you the wrong idea, I was simply asking where the rumors are comming from? and you are correct but the person is still a senior ATO and check capt for the bras and dash fleets. Actually saw him at the office today and u couldnt find a nicer person if u tried, havent flown with him myself though.
But on the rumor network really things are really stable at the place at the moment, i mean there is one or 2 movements but nothing major and no senior movements.

[gerkinburger]

I know for a fact that only two have left in the last three months...Infact just today Skippers had their busiest day most of the fleet were out by 7 am. I think 13 would be more likely the ground handlers there. All aircraft went out within ten minutes of there departure time. No probz there

[Mecarsa Bitrusty]

Can any Skippers folk confirm the apparent resignation of at least one current FO?

[BondiBoy]

Give it a rest matt....:ugh:

[metro_man]

Meca,
Not many people have left recently, A Dash FO left a few weeks back now, and thats about it, I dont believe there is any resignations of current crew.

[bazza stub]

Asked to resign maybe :}

[metro_man]

hey bondi, better get your facts straight the Matt you are refering too is a mate of mine and he does not post here anymore and if you checked meca's post before you opened your mouth you would know that it wasnt him You have done nothing but make his situation with the place a lot harder. so GREAT JOB :ugh:

[el_capitano]

Is the canadian character who was doing interviews still around at Skippers??

[bazza stub]

Maybe I have been under a rock, but who is this Matt character anyway?:rolleyes: somone important?

[ER_ZZZ]

Whats happening over West these day's.

You guys still doing more than 30 hrs stick time a week?

Are sk**pers still hiring ?

[aussie027]

Not actively hiring according to website. Accepting apps for hold file only.:uhoh:

[dugongair]

not anymore... there website says "are not currently recruiting for aircrew positions".

[Skippers Pilot]

dugongair, thanks for the update.

Recruitment went on hold at least 4 months ago, around the same time the website was updated.

The lack of exodus is directly related to the lack of requitement within the majors. Watch this space once the industry starts moving again.

Please don’t hold your breath, this may take some time!

SP

[Mr. Hat]

Not related to skippers but i think if/when recruitment does start again a few of the smaller companies will fold. The retraining and hiring costs will be all too much after the storm.

[Equatorial]

I see the exodus is in full swing again!!

A few phone calls made today and some yesterday.

If it's not the exodus it'll be the competition squeezing them out of the marketplace and all will be left will be Meeka and Wiluna.

Sounds like fun.

:ok:

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Sounds like fun.

Yeah, Equatorial... especially for those who lose a job (note sarcasm, note that I don't expect jobs to be lost).

What's this anyway? Calls received notifying Skippers that clients are looking elsewhere? Far worse things have been said about these guys and their doom has been [wrongly] predicted so many times that it's laughable.

FRQ CB

[Equatorial]

Yes FRQ I also note that your notes are not worth noting.

You obviously do not work for Skippers or haven't previously. There are several guys getting calls for J*, VB and Tiger.

My point (again) was that with Alliance and Skywest getting bigger and bigger, and the boom starting up again, all will have to adapt or be left in the ochre dust.

Last thing I want is anyone losing their jobs, in fact if you took the time to read this thread more thoroughly you would see it is about people getting jobs rather than losing them.

Thanks for your terrific input.

[Led Zep]

If I've said it once, I've said it one hundred times: I'm amazed they're still flying after the Jundee incident.

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Led Zep,

Yeah, Jundee was pretty revealing but there are plenty of examples of companies which have recovered from similar incidents (and accidents). Not a light decision by the Regulator (see I'm using Mr McCormick's capitol R even though it predates him) I'm sure.

Equatorial,

Then perhaps you should write more carefully as the calls you refer to seemed to be about a company in strife, not calls bearing offers of employment.

You obviously do not work for Skippers or haven't previouslyWell la-di-frickin'-da. No I've not worked for Skippers nor have I worked for about 95% of the companies I have made comments about. I shouldn't need to have worked somewhere to have an opinion much like you yourself needn't have worked for VOz, VB, QF, Skippers, Direct Air and NAC to justify all on whom you have commented.

You had three choices when posting last night:
edited your post to read as you intended
reposted explaining the misunderstanding
freak out and look like a tosserWell chosen.

Thanks for your terrific input. Always a pleasure (and usually constructive without an axe to grind against a former employer),

FRQ CB

[George Bush]

FRQ - it was pretty obvious what type of calls Equatorial was referring to!

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Hmmm. Dunno; like many many pilots I live in a world where I'm constantly juggling phone calls from clients who are looking for the best, quickest or cheapest way to get from place to place. (Ad hoc or regular CHTR.) So when we read about "A few phone calls made today and some yesterday" followed directly by "the competition squeezing them out of the marketplace" it seems pretty obvious (although not accurate in the end) that clients are forcing the doors closed.

I'm not stretching the meaning but all one has to do to defuse a misconception is use a bit of decorum.

FRQ CB

[George Bush]

I see the exodus is in full swing again!!

i.e. because

A few phone calls made today and some yesterday.

i.e he's referring to calls made from airlines to Skippers Av. pilots

If it's not the exodus it'll be the competition squeezing them out of the marketplace...

i.e. this last sentence If it's not the exodus... confirms that A few phone calls... is referreing to phone calls related to exodus i.e. airlines calling pilots.

who gives a **** really :p

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

I was going to keep going but as you say:
who gives a **** really http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/tongue.gif
and I quite agree.

FRQ CB over and out.

[ForceFeedback00]

Here's what I have found out:

Brasilia fleet is suffering the most, 7 Capt's resigned (3 already left), 1 FO apparently left ages ago, along with a Capt from Metro fleet. For some reason they have only just begun the upgrade process.

With respect to Dash and Metro fleet's there isn't much I could find out, apart from the majority of the crews are looking for greener pastures.

He mentioned that the cabin attendants were almost non exsistant with only 14 :eek: currently working. Their is a new bunch of girls being trained up but it's unlikely they will be checked to line before the trainers who have also resigned actually leave.

It seems Skippers has left everything a little too late this time. :ugh:

It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out.

[Equatorial]

Cheers Bush for showing FRQ the light.

Thanks Force for the latest updates - certainly gels with what I was told.

Ok FRQ I know you are still reading, I had more than three options, here's one:

4. That FRQ reads this thread from the get go and sees that it's about guys getting jobs and leaving Skippers. Twas your error in assuming you knew what I meant - all you have to do is read page one :ugh:

If you are in the biz of charter quotes, make sure you don't leave a zero of your quotes.

O and stop shooting from the hip - it's unbecoming

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

don't leave a zero of your quotes
Thanks for your incredibly insightful contribution:}. Now with respect to attention to detail I won't leave a zero off of my quotes either.

I tried to bury the hatchet but you want to continue a pissing match.

Perhaps children really should speak only when spoken to.

Nigh nighs,

FRQ CB

PS Wrong, Option Four was not one of your options... however bogus you made it out to be that would have been one of my options (and I do know what this thread is about... in fact speaking of the Exodus it's actually Passover now funnily enough).

[Soar2384]

Okay this is really getting old. Equitorial, FRQ is sorry. FRQ, you got the last word in so you can stop now. There, now back to the topic please...

Does anyone know how many are leaving from the Dash and Metro fleets?

[myshoutcaptain]

5 capts JQ , 4 capts VB , 2 FO VB ... more pending.
:}

[ForceFeedback00]

anybody know of any new ground schools either commenced or about to commence ? if there are new employees commencing work and signing new contracts, existing employees being upgraded or signing new contracts, exactly how are they doing it ? AWA is history and EBA isn't finalized based on AFAP, so whats happening with the EBA ? is it still being negotiated or have they lost the battle to SQ ? seems no one is talking about the most important change to affect the future of all new and existing employees

[ForceFeedback00]

1 left yesterday and 1 tomorrow :ok:

[aussie027]

I am curious as to why with large numbers of captains in particular leaving they are not upgrading FOs that have been there for at least the past 2 years thru the GFC when there was bugger all hiring anywhere going on so everyone was staying where they are????
Surely they must have 1500-1800hrs on type after 2 years and be eager to upgrade.

On their website they are looking for type endorsed DEC only with min 500hrs on type.
So no upgrades for existing staff and no FOs being hired and yet a large number are confirmed to be leaving and more to follow??

[Mecarsa Bitrusty]

Probably a big call upgrading cadets to the left seat of a Braz/Dash!

[Erin Brockovich]

1500-1800 on type doesn't meet the 500 multi requirement for low cap aoc.

Gaining initial PIC experience with 30 - 50 pax (lives) down the back is not the best idea either.

[neville_nobody]

And herein lies the problem with hiring cadets. I believe that REX are in the same predicament. Whereas when you hire guys with some experience to start with they can then upgrade to command after a 2 year period as they by now have 3000-4000 total and will normally have the desired 500 ME command. A cadet who has been the same company for the same period of time only has half that experience and wouldn't have 500 multi command. Whilst hiring cadets is not all bad I certainly wouldn't want to be running a company where basically all my FO were cadets as that leaves the company very exposed if you lost many captains in a short period of time......but of course the managers of all these outfits have everything under control I'm sure.

[neville_nobody]

They were taking QF cadets a few years ago and they had some sort of fast track zero to hero program

[YPJT]

The zero to hero (http://www.ftpilottraining.com/) love that one :ok: ,still has a bit of life left in it. One or two sad cases who still think it's a great way to get into a shiny turbo prop.

[vee tail]

I don't believe that they have had cadets for a couple of years now, atleast they were all gone when I finished up.
As for why arent they upgrading, Is that an assumption made from their advertisment, just because they are advertising for Captains doesnt mean that they arent upgrading........ unless I am wrong.

It also does not mean that they will only hire captains with time on type, it's becoming a drying field again and I think quite quickly:ok:

[G Limit]

Since when did skippers have cadets?

Fast Track Pilot Training (http://www.ftpilottraining.com/news/index.html)

[Soar2384]

From what I understand Skippers are upgrading cadets to command positions. They can do this because a majority of their flights are charter not RPT and therefore don't require an ATPL or 500 ME command. This does however limit those pilots to the charter flights only though.

I know for a fact that the Jetflite cadet programme used to provide cadets to Skippers and I think it it was either 2006 or 2007 they stopped. I assume this was to take on the fast track cadets intead?

YPJT, a cadetship is certainly one of the quickest ways to get on a turbo prop and I would imagine that most of them would be basing their training on multi-crew turbo prop flying. I certainly wouldn't think it would be a bad way to get in.

[aussie027]

Vee Tail,
I was just wondering about why they are not just looking for pilots with above the min RPT times etc but pre endorsed as well, and then also having 500hrs command on type.
Since they pay a training wage and bond you why are the not wanting to give any new hires,either Capt or FO an endorsement??
I can't imagine there are a huge number of Braz endorsed guys out of work around the country as there are only a few Braz operators, then again maybe there are.

[vee tail]

Charter or not, the captain of any multi crew operation must have an ATPL!!
( that is fitting under the 2 crew reqs of course). You
500 multi I am pretty sure is only for RPT low capacity command multi crew.
You don't need 500 multi for ATPL:ok:

[Equatorial]

I think the Qantas cadets were pulled outta there after the impromptu Jundee aeros display :cool:

The other thing that has been done for years and years is limit progression into the left seat to the few 'brave' twits that kiss up for the move - there have been some exceptions.

Plus the fact that it kills em to hand out those second hand three bar slides, afraid as soon as they are put on the person will leave.

I like their slogan - what an absolute frickin joke.

Time to smell the smelling salts :suspect:

[vee tail]

Eqauatorial sounds like you did'nt get an upgrade:eek:

[cre8ive1]

A mate of mine works at Skippers and he reckons that Skippers have an exemption so that their Captains don't require an ATPL to do charter. I guess with that in mind it would be worthwhile for the company to take on cadets.

Equitorial, when did the Jundee incident happen? I've heard about it but I never found out when it actually happened. Why would they get rid of Qantas cadets only to take on other cadetships?

[Led Zep]

They didn't get rid of the Q cadets, the cadets walked out. Jundee "incident" 26th June 2007.

[drop bear ten]

AO-2007-017 (http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2007/aair/ao-2007-017.aspx)

[Equatorial]

Vee Tail

As I said:

there have been some exceptions

Zep we were told that Qantas had pulled them out as soon as it became known and moved them to QantasLink

[Soar2384]

Sorry Vee Tail I forgot to mention the exemption for the ATPL which creative1 rightfully pointed out.

[Auxilio ab alto]

The exemption to which you refer only applies the the metro fleet. The brasillia definitley requires an ATPL to hold a command. There are no cadets at skippers.

[Skippers Pilot]

There are no cadets at skippers.

Oh yes there are!

Cadets on Metro and Dash fleets only, some have come through the fast track program, and some from off the street.

ATPL exemption only available on the Metro, full ATPL required for Braz and Dash.

Progression available for cadets on Metro or Conquest only!

Ever since the Qantas cadet scheme finished a few years back Skippers have been concentrating on their own cadet $$$$ scheme!

SP

[ForceFeedback00]

Finally some movement on the Dash fleet I hear today :ok:
is this the beginning of the next wave ?
:confused: still nothing on the EBA, is there even a negotiation in process or will the crews just take what SQ throws there way ? :ugh:
would love to hear more on this topic

[White and Fluffy]

Its been a while, what is the latest news in this neck of the woods?

[Harvey Denton]

My source indicates:There has been a concerted effort to negotiate a contract that benefits both parties, but there has been no ground given by management other than what has been said to be the minimum legal requirement. That is to say management has given up vrey little and staff have received only what they were due to receive under the new IR system. Apparently a win-lose situation.With regard to the exodus. It has occurred to a large extent with only just enough people left to crew the flights on some fleets. Recruitment is in full swing, but that only covers the people leaving, there is low/no net growth in the ranks. A number of yet to depart crew members have start dates elsewhere.Morale is said to be very low......

[Auxilio ab alto]

EBA votes close tomorrow, what will it be....yes or no?

[Mecarsa Bitrusty]

Doesn't look like the vote got through.

[Auxilio ab alto]

nd the no's have it!!!

[Icarus2001]

So what is the next installment of the process? Does SQ now get to drag this out even longer whilst paying ****e?

[bazza stub]

Seems the powers that be have managed to get their new contract through. Let the rueing begin......

Gains:

F/Os-very little
Capts-were doing okish anyway
Skippers-:E:E:E


and productivity bonus still looms over everyones (those that get it) head to be removed at mangements discresion. Not sure I would be to big a rush to work there. :ok:

[Auxilio ab alto]

Cheif pilot has resigned

[Icarus2001]

Do you mean MC?

Pushed?

Jumped?

Just had enough?

Replacement?

[laser650]

Word is he had just had enough. So I hear he has reverted to line piloting!

[Mr. Hat]

Network QF take over causing a bit of stress over at Skippers no doubt...

[Gunger]

McDonalds are looking for cleaners!!!

Be a great place for him to p*ss off too :ok:

[Shed Dog Tosser]

I hope the rat grinds skippers into the pavement.

[Mr. Hat]

not sure it'll be skippers but they're a goin ta grind someone into the pavement SDT!

According to the WA locals though they're no real threat..!

[vee tail]

SDT,

Why would you hope that it would grind them into the pavement:mad:.
So all the guys lose their jobs, the stress of financial ruin no way to feed the missus and kids.:ugh::ugh:



At a guess they rejected you or you didnt cut the mustard and were shown the door:D

TID EDIT

[Mr. Hat]

All the guys will just get jobs with vb/jq.

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Tid,

We were just having fun....

At a guess they rejected you or you didnt cut the mustard and were shown the door:D

Wow, you must be a clairvoyant,,,,,although not a very good one.

Mr Hat has hit the nail on the head.

[myshoutcaptain]

G Limit Fast Track Pilot Training - index (http://www.ftpilottraining.com/index.html)

Vids @ Youtube also.