Exodus from Skippers (Merged)

[OpsNormal]

Aircraft, you've overlooked the one fact that will carry the argument for a fare increase through and ensure it will get up:

That is that it is so damned far to drive anywhere in WA etc that people will just about pay anything to avoid having to drive 100's (if not 1000's) of km on badly corrugated dirt roads if they could avoid it.

Edited the rest of the post.

[XRlent100]

Aircraft, It's a simplistic model so that simple minds like yours can understand.

You said it yourself that most of Skippers work is mining FIFO work. Therefore all aircraft are running around at 100% load factor whether or not they've got passengers on them, the mining company are paying for the whole aircraft. Really its an increase to the client of $125 for the charter but I would assume that most clients would break that down and put it into per passenger terms, ie $125/60=$2.08 per passenger. As Wizofoz said it proves that your $500 per passenger was a tad unrealistic and that was all it was meant to do.

I think you'll find that many of the Skippers and Network pilot's are doing at least 800hrs per year. I'd be interested to here some actual figures. The one person I know over at Network is on about 850hrs per year and I don't think he's any busier than the rest.

[Ref + 10]

Shed Dog,

I haven't flown with the cadets as the company I'm at doesn't have them but I've seen plenty of pilots coming through with massively different levels of experience and just as massively different levels of skill. I wasn't disagreeing with the "there's no substitue for experience" because i happen to agree with that sentiment. The changes that are being seen in the industry mean that people are going to gain experience at companies like Skippers and so on. Not the way we all used to in Broome, Kunners and the like.

Not arguing your point at all because I agree. The times and the method of gaining said experience is what has changed.

[spacepodlife]

Hello folks, I am new in this thread, I have a question: how much multi time PIC is required by Skippers for a captain position?

[pilotdude09]

how bout you do some time in the ing bush then try for a job at SA like the rest of us did

Think i really stated the question wrong. Of course i dont want/or expect to waltz into a job with an airline with 250 odd hours!, as much as i hate living in the "Bush" i love it as well, i mean the things you can see and you do actually have to fly to get somewhere and you can actually go places. The towns are starting to go ahead, Broome and Karratha in particular- so the bush isnt really that bad anyway, but then again if youve lived in a city all your life like some cadets etc your gonna struggle.

From what everyone says the Bush is the way to go and i dont want to be one of those people that looks great on paper but in reality?

Trying to find out what course is going to be the best for a new pilot that wants to have the best career one can have and everyone on this board should relate to that!

I always thought Skippers had a good fleet of aircraft, but obviously not and obviously have a hell of alot of disgruntled employees, but seriously if you dont like it why stay? that is what i cant work out. Theres a few threads earlier on in the thread that talk about the bush being better in pay and conditions, why stay with Skippers?-dont attack me for that but i would like to know the reason if you are so disgruntled why would you stay?

But no one actually answered my Q, is one of those courses going to help you get a leg in with skippers or even skywest later on once you have some multi?


But geez some people are quick on the ball to attack people around here, no wonder some dont go anywhere in their careers with attitudes and obviously some of you just got to where you are without considering which paths are better and going to give you a better job/career and which will get you there quicker. :mad:

:ok:

[Capn Bloggs]

Richo,

threshold of 11 and the gate at Duck hole

You're losing it, mate! :} It was 12 :ok:

[Monopole]

pilotdude09

but seriously if you dont like it why stay? that is what i cant work out
That is the whole point of this thread.....
They are not staying :ugh:

As for your queston What are the chances of being picked up by Skippers doing either the WAAC CPL course and the ECU Aviation degree as much chance as everybody else. Neither course will 'give you an edge'.

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Apparently more disgusted Captains out the door, some very very important and senior types it would appear.

Heard a rumour that the TWU is now looking closely at the T&C's for another Perth based operator that operates aircraft with blue tails.

[Ref + 10]

Would that operator be the subject of this thread or some other blue tailed operator?

[XRlent100]

REF+10 - Options, life is full of options! Could it be:

Skippers with the blue tail?
National Jet with the blue tail?
Skywest with the blue tail?
Network with the poofy greeny blue tail?
CASair with the Reddy blue tail?
Maroomab with the Red and blue mixed tail?
or
Ad-Astral with the red and blue tail?

Options,Options,Options, Who is it??????????

[Ref + 10]

Yeah yeah. Skywest already has a branchwhich comes under the TWU. National Jet has the TWU fighting for them already. Network would be called a greeen tail by anyone. Maroomba is burgundy really. CASair doesn't have two planes the same colour. Alliance maybe?

Hence why I asked if it was the company at the title of this thread or not. I would think it was Alliance if it wasn't.

[Icarus2001]

Two Dash 8 Captains on their way to jets.

[KRUSTY 34]

Interesting remark from a mate in CASA today.

Apparently the WA office has instucted Skippers management to do more to retain their experienced pilots!

If the drain continues, they (CASA) are going to look seriously at restricting the operation.

Amazing! Even the department can see the danger. It appears that the only group not interested in the fundamental value of it's experienced pilots are Airline management themselves.

Funny old World!

[Shed Dog Tosser]

How could CASA not be morbidly interested/concerned ?.

There are more than 2 Dash guys on the roll, rumour is that someone else, very very high in the C&T is putting some serious feelers out, looking for Jets and a lifestyle change ( less stress ), and will more than likely get same really soon.

More Bras resumes on desks and one of the other blue tail operators continues to make it a company sport to recruit from a very specific sector of the industry.

Contempt begets contempt, bad will begets bad will, disappointing but rather simple really.

[piston broke again]

Of course CASA are concerned.
2 recent 'show causes', as per previous post. No one seemed to pick up on it.

[KRUSTY 34]

Yes, but are Airline management?

And what are they doing about it?

[Ref + 10]

piston broke, we picked up on it but there were no replies. I doubt that it would be the sort of thing discussed on this type of forum even if you did know something about it...

[piston broke again]

Ref + 10,

I hear what you're saying, but it is a rumour network.

[Icarus2001]

Whether CASA in any office has or has not instructed/suggested/demanded that management do more to retain key staff is really being made rapidly irrelevant.

Management came up with a new AWA with more dollars but poor terms, the pilot body has replied with their feet by at least three resigning in the last 10 days and three others known to be having interviews this and next week.

I think that answers the offer of a new AWA:\. The smart thing to do would be for the pilot group to now act as a group nominate some movers and shakers to redraft the AWA more to their liking and then offer it back to management as a solution.

The next few months will be critical for this company. Apparently Network also increased their pay but without the onerous conditions.

Let the games commence.:D

[El Kabong]

What are Network paying now?

[kaycee]

I heard 80k for a Braz Captain :suspect:

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Apparently at some stage the AFAP has had a close'ish working history with Skippers, have they involved themselves in the latest AWA offer ?, as a Pilot Union body or Mediator ?.

[kair1234]

so does anyone know whats happening with the new awa? is anyone signing it?

[BrazDriver]

They are making all Braz F/O's sign it. The latest batch of cadets all signed their life away. I hear a few experienced (500multi) guys have knocked back the AWA and have gone to greener pastures instead. 25k bond 3 months notice, the great Skippers shaft!

[KRUSTY 34]

f@rk'n Hell!!

[Icarus2001]

They are making all Braz F/O's sign it. How on earth can they find the leverage to do that?
Sign or else we will find someone else, has lost its impact all of a sudden.:\
Guys, stick together and write your own AWA and pass it back up the chain to the boss and show them what YOU want in an AWA.

[BrazDriver]

Hard to get a backbone when so many cadets with stars in their eyes and daddy's dollars paying for everything!

Grapevine has it 7 capts are leaving or in the process of leaving after being told to sign the AWA


Just had to spill the beans!

[piston broke again]

Nothing that Skippers are doing in recent times, in my opinion is legally binding. They are shooting themselves in the foot and will continue to lose pilots. Guys/Girls that pay for their endorsements ($8500) and get a command endorsement are being asked to pay out their bond for the upgrade, even though the AWA states 'where you already hold an endorsement relative to the upgrade (ie. FO -> Capt) you are not required to pay'.
The result? They dock you of your final pay. Let's not let this continue.

[Erin Brockovich]

I wouldn’t bother wasting your time with Skippers and similar minded companies. A tiger doesn’t change its stripes – or in this case, a pig’s tail is always crooked.

There are much better jobs out there with companies that will survive the next financial year.

Skippers RIP 1990-2008.

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Brazdriver,

No offence buddy, none of the existing staff are being forced to sign the new AWA ( as far as i have seen ), it quite clearly states within the offer " Employee's wishing to remain on their existing AWA are entitled to do so and will not be prejudiced as a result of their decision ", that is consistent with what i've seen in the workplace, and no, i did not accept the new AWA for personal reasons.

As for new staff or fleet upgrades, well that's their decision.

Stating that Pilots are being forced to sign anything is quite an allegation, and it would be considered Libel, unless you are absolutely, first hand, sure of it, perhaps you should edit said statement for your own benefit.

[BrazDriver]

LRT,

Let me rephrase for clarity,

All new crew are made to sign the new agreement, full time.
Current crew are being strongly encouraged by Skippers to sign the new agreement.

My apologies for not being clearer.

[vee tail]

That is no different to any other awa skippers have put out.
Even the old one, sign or your not employed.
New employees are new employees, if ya wanna work , you gotta sign:ok:

[Icarus2001]

Well there is the rub...why lock in to three months notice at Skippers when Network, Complete etc do not expect the same and I believe are still looking for crew.

People will vote with their feet by walking past Skippers. Most pilots who have minimum time for a command at Skippers also meet VB minimums.

[kair1234]

anyone know what the current time to get command for the various fleets is at skippers at the moment? how does it differ for various experience levels ie a pilot put on as an f/o with their 500 multi already compared to a cadet or someone with only 100 or so multi?

[piston broke again]

500 multi command would get you into the left seat after a couple of months as F/O, if you have an ATPL of course. Mainly for Braz and Metro. Dash you'd be there longer.

[Continental-520]

kair1234,

I spent 7 days as an F/O checked to line on the Metro fleet. Actually, better make it 9 days cause there was a weekend in there somewhere.

Only got my ATPL the week before though.

A few guys who have joined the company with an ATPL and in some cases some initial turbine time have gone straight into the left seat of a Metro, but I don't think they do the same for the Braz.


520.

[kair1234]

cheers guys,

and what happens for people that fall below the 500 multi command, do they just icus you until you do have 500

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Rumour has it atleast another 11 staff from Skippers are being interviewed by another blue tailed organisation early next week, care to comment?, see you soon boys.

[Islander Jock]

Heard tonight of a guy going for an interview and was told he would have to pay 30k for Metro endo. Applicaton form was promptly thrown on the floor and walked over by the guy as he left their office. :ok:

[KRUSTY 34]

I know it's a rumour network Jock, but their management couldn't be that insane!

Could they?

[Towering Q]

30K would just about buy you a Metro.:mad:

[overhere]

Was he quoted for the "cadetship"?

I was recently quoted 34K (M23) and 39K (Dash 8) for the Skippers Cadetship.

Like many others I know I promptly declined!

[Ref + 10]

This is going from the bizarre to the downright unbelievable.

If 30k upfront for a metro slot is true then Skippers will not be able to continue. There just isn't anyone left that will pay that sort of money for a crummy Metro endorsement. Someone tackle them on the way out of the interview if they intend to. Can Skippers even provide the pilot to supply the endorsement? If the rumours here are any indication, it sounds as though they have no pilots left anyway...

Network bond people for 18 months and 18k on a Bras with a 5 grand top up when upgraded to a command. Even they are looking hard to find suitable applicants. Apparently they have twice the number of captains on the Bras that Skippers do and are still looking for more.

If Jock's story is true then they deserve everything they get.

[Terry the bush]

I know of a guy who is thinking about leaving before he is even endorsed because of a lack of training! Whats with that.

[gas-chamber]

Skippers seem to be getting what they deserve. If they don't wise up, front up with the training and go the bond route they will be stuffed.
However, tales of guys stomping out of interviews in high dudgeon smack of a certain pilot arrogance. Just remember that the tide always turns, aviation always suffers a bust after a boom, and some management types have long memories.
If you don't like what's on offer, thank them politely, tell them what YOU would consider as a fair deal, leave them your contact details, thank them again, shake hands and walk out the door.
At least that way, you won't have totally burned a bridge you may need to cross in the future.

[Over and gout]

If you don't like what's on offer, thank them politely, tell them what YOU would consider as a fair deal, leave them your contact details, thank them again, shake hands and walk out the door.
At least that way, you won't have totally burned a bridge you may need to cross in the future.


Well said:ok:

[KRUSTY 34]

barondriver,

Have you accepted the offer yet?

Did you check the T&C's before the interview?

All you boys and girls out there, don't take anything for granted. Make sure you educate yourselves to what is actually on offer.

If you are an existing employee, then I guess you probably know what your next step should be....

[Mecarsa Bitrusty]

This is all very interesting!

I have an interview coming up with this mob soon and I don’t meet the current minimum requirements, At this stage I assume its for some sort of direct entry FO gig as there is no mention of anything else, in fact there is no mention of any fleet type at all.

I am desperate to further my career with a company like this but I’m F#%KED if I would pay 30k for the privilege! If they try and pull any of that S#%T on me I will walk so quickly they wont know what hit them! I’ll stick to flying 152’s for a bit longer if I have too.

As per the new conditions on offer I haven’t seen a copy so I guess they spring that one on you at the last minute.

I’m starting to wonder if this is the dream job I have been looking for, is it that hard to get the respect and conditions we deserve in this industry????????

[spini]

Mecarsa Bitrusty, sounds like you might be flogging around the circuit for a long time to come in the 152.

Personally I would follow gas-chamber’s advice. The people who hire and fire in aviation, as elsewhere, have very long memories when it comes to potential pilot/employee tantrums.

It is much better to wait for them to counter offer at a later date when they are really desperate, assuming that you actually have something to offer. It’s worked for me in the past.

[wessex19]

as my grandmother use to say, "marry in haste, repent at leisure!!!":ugh:

[Ref + 10]

Anyone heard any results from the Skywest interviews over the past couple of days and whether any Skippers crew have been given the nod?

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Heard a rumour that a number of them have already been given the nod, and apparently more to come in the next two days.

[aircraft]

Has anybody got an answer to the question asked by barondriver? His question was particular pertinent. Here is his post again:

Where r these supposed pay increases on the new awa. the one i received has the dodgy 90days notice of leave and the renumeration packages as listed below inclusive of 9% super.

Conquest capt 53350 fo n/a
metro 23 capt 59915 fo 40890
braz capt 63600 fo 43225
dash 8-100/200 capt 72570 fo 48595
dash 8-300 capt 75759 fo 50527

i heard it was meant to be 75k for a metro capt and 95k for a braz capt

[laser650]

Welcome to Skippers guys, you are potential employees who haven't yet entered the front door, what a laugh. :ugh: :\ :ugh: :ugh: :hmm: and the company thinks it can be trusted from day 1, it seems not.
Well the AWA is as you see it, BUT you get a letter of appointment and with that letter is detailed the bonus portion. If you are joining on the assumption of getting $75 or $95k for whichever fleet you are joining, then make sure that if entering as a captain that the letter of appointment states that you will get $87155.90 + super (aka $95K).
Just make sure if you applied relating to the ad then you should receive what was advertised ie FROM $75/$95...... as a minimum remuneration or would that be false advertising otherwise?
The only worry that the current guys have is whether the BONUS portion could be changed, and if so people would go back to the AWA wages of what you have posted here in with an unfair 3 month notice for leaving SA. :mad:
Laser

[Shed Dog Tosser]

FYI,

TWU:
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/sheddogtosser/SCAN0015.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/sheddogtosser/SCAN0014.jpg

AFAP:
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/sheddogtosser/SCAN0008.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/sheddogtosser/SCAN0009.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/sheddogtosser/SCAN0010.jpg
http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc281/sheddogtosser/SCAN0011.jpg

[aussie027]

Shed Dog Tosser,
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR POSTING THE ABOVE LETTERS!!!!:ok::D:D
They pretty much say it all and show some of the benefits of union membership.
Ones own knowledge and reading of such a document cannot match those of experienced union industrial officers who know the ins and outs of exactly what to look for etc.
I am looking for a new job having just moved back to Australia and Perth permanently and have been reading this thread for over 6 mo and havent seen 1 positive comment on here about this company.
From the past 6 mo worth of comments including those from many pilots working there it is easy to see why they are loosing people hand over fist and why some smart pilots are refusing to sign the present AWA.

Since they insist new pilots sign it as is, with no scope for changing any of the conditions ( so I understand) I for one will not be able to apply as I simply could not abide by the 3 mo notice condition for a start. That is an OUTRAGE!!!
Even CEOs at large corporations all over the world are usually required to only give a months notice, let alone ordinary staff.
In the USA for eg,almost ALL WORKERS in any industry or company are employed "at will" which means absolutely no notice is required by either employer or employee to say Adios, Im outta here.
I don,t think that is a good thing ,but 2-4weeks notice by employee or the company paying you in leiu of any notice if you are fired or laid off is fair enough.
The question now is will the companies existing pilots and new prospective pilots speak up and propose new conditions for a fair and beneficial AWA or get the TWU or AFAP in to negotiate a CA or EBA????

[Fizzer]

Appreciate efforts, reward Captains? Forget the FO's, FA's,rampies,it has never happened since Skippy's inception and won't change now. Plenty of money in the bag but better spent on pubs and horses.

[Erin Brockovich]

and prostitutes! It doesn’t take much for the word to get around.

The Captains are hardly rewarded for their efforts if they are payed what is posted. The AFAP and TWU have pretty much summed it up for everybody concerned. If you don’t believe them then sign up and don’t come crying later on!

This company makes Rex look like Disney Land. Bunch of white collar criminals. Time is running out.

[havick]

FP_ACE, so is this the route you plan on taking? or are you just floating it.

I guess what I am getting at, is I doubt your mates would have the balls to admit that they are not happy with their decision after spending mum and dad's 35k on an endorsement.

[Gooose]

Compare the T&Cs those 4 blokes are getting with the **** that they would have gotten in GA............

[Led Zep]

Cadets are great until the captains go to Skywest. :}

[Towering Q]

Compare the T&Cs those 4 blokes are getting with the **** that they would have gotten in GA............


They are in GA!!:ugh::ugh:

[Icarus2001]

Cadets are great until the captains go to Skywest or Alliance...:\



PS. "Gotten" is not a word!:hmm:

[aussie027]

Does anyone have any info if Skippers is presently hiring and into what aircraft/seat?????
What is currently happening at Skippers re new hires and AWAs????
Is everyone forced to sign the present one that the AFAP and TWU advised not to or can you negotiate your own individually???
I was going to apply to see if I could get a DEC position on the Metro or FO on something bigger.
Any responses from actual Skippers pilots would be appreciated or people who ACTUALLY KNOW accurate info, not rumours or speculation please.
Thanks everyone :ok:

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Gotten is too a word. Refer here (http://www.wsu.edu:8080/%7Ebrians/errors/got.html).:8

[Ref + 10]

And here I was expecting to see this thread re-ignited with some news about the Skippers juggernaut and it's only a grammatical statement.

Anyone out there have any news on movements into or out the aforementioned juggernaut??

[Towering Q]

And here I was expecting to see this thread re-ignited with some news about the Skippers juggernaut and it's only a comment about a grammatical statement.:}

[Ref + 10]

:}:}:} At least people are laughing about this thread now. There was a bit of anger for a while there...

[jandakotpilot]

Word on the grapevine is the AWA is changing to attract more crew! Dont sign anything!

[Wizofoz]

Not possible. Aviation doesn't work like that. Ask Aircraft!!

[skippersinsider]

For obvious reasons I am not able to comment directly on the source of this information.

There are crew who have recently been given a start date and they will be on the old AWA because they have opted to sign it (it is Skippers after all) and the AWA will be changed after that for new hires. The new AWA will be a little more realistic, but not finalised! So no exact details at this point.

Skippers are on a very regular basis x-hiring DH8's and Emb-120's from Network, Maroomba, NJS and the odd F50 from XR due to the crew shortage! Thursday morning we had 4 x-hires! Lake Johnston is almost totally served by x-hires from NJS and Maroomba.

There are plenty of cadet's in the system, but due to experience they are unable to make the step to command. There is not a flow of experienced drivers to take that step. The current AWA is keeping most away. Nor is it retaining experienced staff.

Company morale is through the floor with plenty of bitching, moaning, whinging and just general complaining. Constant daydreaming of better things! Just look at the last skippers ball, barely anybody went!


JTpilot I hope this answers your comment!

[TAC inop.]

You guys are so funny....just go to the Emirates forum...or Cathay...or anywhere else for that matter and you tell me how it really is....
Stop bitching.

[Continental-520]

Huh?

Whaddya mean, cobber?

Sorry if I'm missing something really obvious....


520

[Skystar320]

You guys are so funny....just go to the Emirates forum...or Cathay...or anywhere else for that matter and you tell me how it really is....
Stop bitching.

Why did you bump the post?

[captwawa]

520

you are missing something - maybe you need to read his post again slowly maybe even slower than before

you shouldn't have had the labotomy

o sorry i will speak in simple words - no more brain chop ok?

[Continental-520]

Eureka!
Is that what it is??

Thanks for the tip - cause now I know what he's talking about. It's a good thing there are people like you that are smarter than me in this world to point these things out, captwawa! Now I can sleep. Phew!


520.

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Mr Insider,

From friends that work there, apparently;

It is still turd sandwiches all round on the AWA front. Company still hell bent on not negotiating / discussing an amicable resolve, massive staff shortage still apparent.

Many other organisations aircraft spending more time on the Skippers apron than their own.

More Pilots off to other organisation, especially Captains, VB, Cathay, Dragon, NJS, Skywest recruiting again in a couple of weeks more to probably go then, 5 on the roll with QF.

The icing on the cake, another lot of Dash 8's on the way and still a staff shortage.

Good luck.

[Icarus2001]

So what about the rumour that a senior manager will be making his swan song soon?

[Going Boeing]

Qantas understands the seriousness of the pilot shortage and has now effectively elimated the "hold file". Instead, any pilot that passes the recruiting process is sent a letter offering employment with the start date TBA. This is aimed at stopping the loss to other carriers of pilots who have been waiting on the hold file. Employment and training of recruits continues at maximum capacity to allow promotion of S/O's and F/O's in preparation for new aircraft arriving.

Pilots who are unhappy at airlines like Skippers have real alternatives for career progression.

[bushy]

The existence of a "hold file" indicates a surplus of known suitable pilots. If that has been eliminated then that is a return to normality. Not a shortage.

[myshoutcaptain]

lose physics and they'd have even more

[Going Boeing]

lose physics and they'd have even more

The Physics requirement was dropped about six months ago.

[myshoutcaptain]

Boeing - my bad. I meant Maths .... :ugh:

[Diver Dan]

May get harder now for Skippers with Surveillance Australia now offering Dash 8 Captains 100K + CPI + 2% increase per year retention + overtime + superannuation.

Interesting times.

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Not to mention that apparently many of their Pilots have received letters informing them that their AWA's have not passed the fairness test, interesting times.

[bazza stub]

Pay rises for Braz and Dash F/O's??? Anyone know if it's true? :ok:

[skippersinsider]

Lots of fines coming!

Crew who signed the AWA as new crew, that AWA will stand!

Old crew, You are in the money! Few court cases coming up!

[laser650]

Skip insider,

This is the first I here of any court case. Are any unions involoved? :hmm:

Is this info made public anywhere?

Laser

[BR715]

Those fines will be the least of their worries when they put one through a fence or in the dirt!!!!

[justvisual]

Whats the latest on the GM, heard he is part of the exodus as well?

[laser650]

:D:D:):D:}

Great to see the Shake up Skippers needs has begun! CEO RS has left and SQ, the chairman is running the show until a more suitable CEO is sort after!

Laser

[Ref + 10]

Aww, come on. Is this a beat up??

[Icarus2001]

Word is that he finished up on Friday. can any Skippy confirm this? Have they advertised for a new "used car salesman" to run the place or are they looking for a low time Baron driver to take the reins?

[aussie027]

Can anybody now working at Skippers please give me some information about the current state of the company, available positions, current salaries, if AWA's still required by new hires etc. Will they individually negotiate salaries and T & C etc without an AWA, but a letter of employment instead??
Any info on the recruitment process would also be great.
Please PM me if you dont want to post on forum.
Thank you, any helpful replies much appreciated.
Happy and Safe New Year to all.

[BrazDriver]

Last 18 pages pretty much summs up the situation!

[Icarus2001]

Well now that RS has been invited to leave by his good mate SQ how have things changed?

[Shed Dog Tosser]

A very good friend noticed a number of Skippers Pilots loitering around the domestic terminal over the past couple of weeks, suits and ties, a very well dressed mob indeed.

Makes you wonder what that is all about ?.

[Ref + 10]

Maybe they are looking at gaining employment at Aero-Care??!! Or the Dome cafe even...

[BAe32EP-Chief]

A very good friend noticed a number of Skippers Pilots loitering around the domestic terminal over the past couple of weeks, suits and ties, a very well dressed mob indeed.

Makes you wonder what that is all about ?.


Errr better pay / conditions @ skywest?

[kair1234]

i hear there is a much needed pay rise for the metro f/o's somewhere in the pipeline, in the vicinity of a 5k salary increase i believe.

Any truth to this rumour?

[BR715]

Are metro F/Os payed a salary now?

[Continental-520]

Yes, the Metro F/O's are now paid a salary.

[BR715]

They have finally realised that for those who may move there for the job and then have their training delayed might struggle financially, only took em how many years to figure it out? A mate of mine was there a while ago they told him they needed him straight away so he moved his ass over there only to get there and have all there training delayed. He had to work on the ramp for a few months to make money.......that is a disgrace. Bout time they began to get their act together and pay everyone a salary.

[Ref + 10]

Yeah, but what is that salary?

Another thread (CASair for sale) mentioned that Skippers is looking to retire their Metro fleet. Not sure if it's the reality but it's not worth the risk if you are made redundant in 3 months....

[Continental-520]

Not too sure on what the salaries are for the F/O's. I think the Metro F/O salary is around the 32-35 mark, but can't be sure.

They are looking to retire those Metros, yes. There was a prospective buyer looking at HWR and WAX over the weekend, apparently.

Anyone know who the prospective buyer(s) is/are?



520.

[Skystar320]

Making way for additional Dash 8-300's.

Metro's will be disposed off and everything pushed into the Braz's

Although there is thought that the Braz's may go and be replaced with Dash 8-100's / -200's

Makes sense Dash 8 fleet with just the conquest's as corporate

[BR715]

Way to go skippers get more ****ty dash 8/ 100/200 's while all your competitors are getting jets :ugh:

[Skystar320]

Way to go skippers get more ****ty dash 8/ 100/200 's while all your competitors are getting jets

You tool! Getting jet's doesnt mean its the right way - there are so many reaons....

*shakes head*

[gas-chamber]

Right on Skystar. 5 years ago most pilots outside the majors would have sucked ...k to get a gig in a Dash 8. Now the turkeys all reckon they have a God given right to a wunderjet window seat fresh out of school. Tools, indeed.

[Monopole]

Way to go skippers get more ****ty dash 8/ 100/200 's while all your competitors are getting jets Not all of them BR175. Maroombas jet is on Gov contract only. It can not be used for any other charter (except medical I believe). As for Network, they are entering a market in direct compitition with two established F100 experienced companies. I am not saying they dont have a chance, but it will be interesting times especially in light of the current market crash. It may be a good move by Skippers not to expend into the jet market but rather increase capacity into an already known turboprop market.

[gas-chamber]

Exactly. Love him or hate him, Stan the man is no fool. If the jet end of town becomes overheated, operators with a single or two type fleet of good turboprops could still do well into all the places jets fear to tread. Also, some customers could and should be nervous about placing all their contracts with one operator for lots of reasons. Pilot or engineer industrial action, being held to ransom with pricing, breakdowns etc etc. My advice to a big client would be to spread the love amongst at least two operators.

[Gooose]

Skippers wouldn't be able to go jets even if they wanted to.........

[Ref + 10]

gas-chamber. I'm interested in what makes you say that. I don't know of any contracts that are let out to two companies to operate together. Sure, there are ad-hoc charter flights on top of contract flights by another operator but I am not aware of a mine contracting two companies to go fly to the one mine.

Having said that, I'm totally prepared to be proven wrong.

I have heard of mining companies letting out contracts to seperate contractors for similar but not exactly the same criteria (ie, mining equipment/ongoing maintenance) but not the fly-in fly-out servicing.

[XRlent100]

Ref, what GC may mean for example is the current tender for Rio. Instead of giving all the flying to one operator maybe they could give different destinations to different operators. ie PBO to company A, Mung to Company B and so on.

[Ref + 10]

Fair enough. Has that been done before though? Like I said, I just wasn't aware of it being done before.

[gas-chamber]

As I said, that is how I would advise a client, if their business was big enough to call the shots. Not much different to the situation where Qantas gave some of their regional flying to NJS, some to its own regionals and some to the original Jetstar. Maybe not to the same airports or mine sites, athough certainly if there was enough work to sustain two operators, a good idea. Keeps everyone on their best behaviour. The flip side is the client has to pay realistic money to sustain the two operators. If they just use it to drive the price below profitable levels it soon puts the weaker of the two operators out of business and defeats the entire purpose.

[Shed Dog Tosser]

The answer to my previous question has presented itself:

One off to Skywest, two to Alliance and One off to Cathay ( all Captains ), all good blokes apparently, well done to them !.

What will happen, Parking aircraft against the fence "or" lower the experience levels even further ( will be interested to see how this game of limbo will play out, we all know how this dangerous game has historically ended ).

Whilst i do not know SQ, I find it hard to believe that a change of management would not be addressing the most pressing issue, retention of current staff and obtaining new staff.

Interstingly enough, where other organisations have adapted,,,, they are not complaining of staff shortages.

Noticed on another thread some slagging off regarding the Brasilia incident at Jundee, whilst it is highly unfair to be pointing fingers, you could certainly suggest that something very drastic and systemic occured to allow that aircraft to have an outstanding defect ( undetected by comparision to drip sticks ) that could allow them to run out of fuel, it could have been Australia's worst accident ever.

Well done to the crew for what ever actions they took as a response to this incident that saved to day.

Apparently the last fortnights pay went in late, is this so, can not imagine that went down too well ?.

[Led Zep]

People tell me, "it's getting better at Skippers now RS is gone!"



Maybe they are allowing staff to have a drink from the cool room again. :E

[BR715]

Shed Dog Tosser

Granted the crew did a good job to save the aircraft form a major accident which at the end of the day is the most important thing. The more disturbing thing about that particular incident is that it could have and should have been totally avoidable. Not sure what exactly occurred with the fuel, faulty gauge, crew incorrect calculation of fuel (within 3% eg) but seems to be some issues with maintenance procedures or if the crew did calculate the fuel incorrectly SOP's, training standards, crew experience levels etc

[kair1234]

i hear casair f/o's are earning above 60k per year on casual with captains on more. Any idea if skippers is going to step up to the mark.

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Apparently more Captains off, a sad loss for the organsiation, VB this time.

Word has it, a cadet that has been out of the flying school and with the company about six months is about to / has started flying the Conquest, what, TT circa 700 ?, i guess there is the answer to the previous question.

[kair1234]

take a look at some of the captains at casair then, not long ago they were cpl holders sitting in the right seat to enjoy the ride, unendorsed to satisfy contract requirements

[strobe12]

What is happening with the hour/experience req's with contracts?

Have these changed as well, would hate to think that they are being ignored! The mines would NOT put up with that at all.

But hey......:hmm:

[Ref + 10]

The mines WILL put up with it because they have no choice.

Mr Minesite, "We're cancelling your contract because your pilots don't meet our minimum requirements."

Mr GA operator says, " No one can meet your requirements anymore either."

Mr Minesite says, "Sure mate, pilots are a dime a dozen. Everyone knows that..."

Mr NJS/Alliance/Skywest/pick one then says "spend 5 mil to upgrade your strip then we'll do you a great deal on a jet service."

Mr Minesite says,"But we only need to move 15 people 3 times a week...."

Mr Minesite says,"Mr Skippers, forget those requirements. We can't get truck drivers. Can't imagine how hard it is for you to get decent bus/plane drivers."

The industry wide skills shortage means that the minimum requirements for any position whether it be flying or cooking meals is going through the floor. There are many many examples of this.

The aviation industry is no different.

[Capn Bloggs]

If they don't come up to your standards, lower your standards. Or start your own cadet scheme so they'll fly for you earning even less money than before.

[Shed Dog Tosser]

more rumours to add:

* Skippers is apparently "For Sale",

* a handfull of Dash 8 Captains have resigned this week, off to another blue tailed operator, two more very soon ( leaving them very very short ),

* another couple of Bras Captains in finals stages of jobs with the majors,

* another couple of Metro Captains leaving very soon, another on the roll very soon ( also leaving them very very short ),

* heard on the grapevine that a few nasty letters/phone calls/emails to the new employers were made to paint of bad picture of departing staff ( wow thats gutsy ),

* Morale at an all new time low.

[Ref + 10]

* heard on the grapevine that a few nasty letters/phone calls/emails to the new employers were made to paint of bad picture of departing staff ( wow thats gutsy ),

Is there anything that can be done about that from a legal point of view if it is true? I've had it done to me and was livid. Looking back I would have liked to know if I had any avenue to have them dealt with.

[PlankBlender]

Ref+10, such defamatory emails/letters/calls could constitute libel, and if you have proof (i.e. can get hold of a copy of the letter/email or a recording of a phone conversation), it can potentially get very expensive for the originating person/company.

You could actually stand to make a healthy sum in the process if your lawyer can argue successfully that you incurred a loss (didn't get that jet job, lower entry salary/rank, etc.) as a direct or indirect result of the defamation.

I would never ever stand for something outrageous like that, it's unbelievable bad form, not to mention illegal, and I would encourage you and anyone else affected by such a horrible practice to seek legal representation and if possible sue the ba:mad:rds for all you can!!

Also, if anyone has such proof, I would also encourage them (after checking with their legal representation) to post the contents here and so name and shame the companies and individuals involved.. that would teach them :}

BTW Ref+10 you can still take legal action years after the fact :E

[Skystar320]

A Taped phone conversation will not hold up in court unless you are heard on the conversation saying "Do you mind if I tape this conversation"

I have been there and done that in the force and it was quashed.


Skippers for sale? lol ok - nice joke. Why would you sell a company that is earning the owners nearly double digit millions?

[Monopole]

A Taped phone conversation will not hold up in court unless you are heard on the conversation saying "Do you mind if I tape this conversation"
This was my understanding aswell. There was a big deal made about it when mobile phones started coming out with recorders on them.

Ref +10, things worked out well for you. I would probably let sleeping dogs lie.

As for the sale of Skippers, I thought it had been on the market (quietly) for a while. There has been a figure floating around for years but I bet it has dropped a few mill since then :E..

[Ref + 10]

Mono,

Don't get me wrong, I'm not upset about it. If anything I was probably done a favour but it sure didn't seem that way at the time. I hate to think that this sort of rubbish can become standard practice and that no-one does anything about it. Sure, I may be fine but it doesn't mean that it will be fine for anyone else subjected to the same treatment.

[PlankBlender]

..of course most companies would be very embarrassed when confronted with such a tape, and would most likely be willing to come to some sort of understanding to avoid ending up with the proverbial egg on their face :ouch: the presentation of such evidence in the media or a courtroom could be much more damaging to a company than any court ruling..

If companies get away with this sort of intimidation they achieve at least part of their aim :yuk:, and I can only appeal to individuals to have the guts to come forward, name and shame, and sue where possible.:D

[vee tail]

Shed dog who's morale is at an all time low.
Not the employees I speak to. Sure some unhappy.
8 capt of the D8 fleet going. Did'nt think there was 8 there and I spoke to 3 today and they are off no where.:=

I did hear that management not happy with some off metro fleet going to blue tail operator that doesnt have f50's who broke contract that they arent happy with, understandably too yes fleet numbers are low.:E

I guess this is a rumour network:ok:

For sale!! everything is for sale:D

[BrazDriver]

Strange things are happening at present. Some crew are being told to take leave, and use up their holidays! Thats the tip of the iceberg!

[Gooose]

heard rumor one of the dash 300s was bent on the ground at perth now in the hanger......:D

[Ref + 10]

I did hear that management not happy with some off metro fleet going to blue tail operator that doesnt have f50's who broke contract that they arent happy with, understandably too yes fleet numbers are low.

You'd be unhappy too if your staff were leaving and all the deviousness you employed to keep them wasn't working!! Karma my friend. 3 months notice is the most ridiculously desperate measure I have heard of in recent times!! Come on vee tail, is 3 months fair and reasonable?

We can go on forever about this and I guarantee that Skippers has got far more out it's employees than is fair in the past. The "pay rise" in it's first form is proof enough. The only difference now is the choice that is available to pilots. As a group there has never been so many options and instead of trying to adjust, the likes of Skippers resort to sabotaging their own staff.

If you have been shafted by your own employer and failed to progress then had to continue working there, how productive an employee do you think you will be?

The longer this situation deepens then the more the Skippers/Rex's of the world will struggle. Time will show how dirty the fight will get.

[vee tail]

REF+10. I NEVER SAID THAT IT WAS REASONABLE FOR 3 MONTHS OR ANY OF THE OTHER CRAP ON THE AWA, DON'T GET ME WRONG.:=

HOWEVER NO-ONE HAS BEEN HELD AT KNIFE POINT TO SIGN THESE AGREEMENTS AND MANY OF THEM HAVE BEEN SIGNED IN RECENT TIMES WHEN THEIR HAVE BEEN OTHER OPPORTUNITIES AVAILABLE.

AND ONE SHOULD'NT WORRY ABOUT ANOTHERS PROGRESS BECAUSE OF THEIR OPINION.

IF YOU SIGN IT THEN DON'T WINGE ABOUT HOW UNFAIR IT IS:ok:

[BrazDriver]

VTail, May I draw your attention to your post #262 of this thread.

''That is no different to any other awa skippers have put out.
Even the old one, sign or your not employed.
New employees are new employees, if ya wanna work , you gotta sign:ok:''

Having experienced the knife point tatics of Skippers, they are alive and kicking!

Also we are all in the boat together, trying to get better conditions, so it is in every pilots interest to know if the new AWA is being signed. Otherwise the bar is being lowered. Its only the numbers not the people we are interested in!

For your reference I have not signed the agreement!

[Towering Q]

I thought the situation may have improved after the departure of the CEO, looks like it has got worse. If that's possible.

As LRT said, could be the best job in Perth.

[Icarus2001]

Yes where has the CEO moved to? He would surely be snapped up since he was clearly such a good operator.

In answer to your question Skystar320...Why would you sell a company that is earning the owners nearly double digit millions?

What if after having taken over the reins from the departing CEO you realise that it is in a very poor state with unsustainable staff turnover? What if you are the owner and already so rich that you couldn't spend the money you already have in the years left? What if you wish to sell it to make an investment elsewhere?

By the way are you saying earning as in profit? Net or gross? What sort of return on capital would that be then?

[Brasilian Bird]

heard on the grapevine that a few nasty letters/phone calls/emails to the new employers were made to paint of bad picture of departing staff ( wow thats gutsy ),

And from what I'm told it's not the first time, either.

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Apparently pays are late, again, no cash flow problems there.

Bet that just goes down a treat.

*Abandon ship*

[Pundit]

I know nothing about Skippers other than what I have read in this site.

Is it possible to save the company?

Is SQ a good guy?

Why did the last CEO leave, was it because of a fall out with SQ, or was he generally unsatisfactory? Where is he now?

Are their any external advisers who could be giving poor advice (eg Oldpaddock)?

Who else is on the board with SQ?

[BrazDriver]

Glad someone mentioned it!

Abandon ship is right, she's taking on water fast! Not to mention the complacent ego's at the top weighing it down further!

[flightidleflat]

Apparently the late pays is due to the pay clerk having a prem baby. Reasonable excuse, but it's not the first occasion in recent times that they've been late, not so great with morale at an all time low as is.

[Led Zep]

RS was shown the door by the big SQ as he found out how close Skippers were/are to losing their AOC regarding a Jundee flight, something that RS failed to keep SQ in the loop with.
That is the rumour. I wouldn't piss on SQ if he were on fire, nor RS.


Who else remembers getting paid weekly and on time too? None of this fortnightly crap.

[BR715]

"Apparently the late pays is due to the pay clerk having a prem baby"

So there is only 1 person who is able to process the pay. You bust you arse flying all week and your pay is late, ah how things will never change:ugh: Skippers is truly a disgrace no wonder people are leaving in droves.


R.I.P skippers

[Shed Dog Tosser]

If the company views paying their staff on time as a low priority.

Wonder what the company would think if the staff viewed going to work tomorrow as a low priority, long weekends all round !!!!!.

Yee reaps what yee sows.

Viva la Revolucion!

[BrazDriver]

So "Apparently the late pays is due to the pay clerk having a prem baby" is the Skippers way of saying ''Cheque is in the mail!''

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Led Zep,

And what of the rumour there was a "slight discrepancy" with the performance data for Fitzroy that saw some 900 odd kg reduction in T/O weight when corrected.

I'd imagine it easy to win contracts off competitors when you can operate the same aircraft types and pull bigger numbers on any said day.

Or the rumour that the gaggle of new Dash 8's are not coming,

Or the rumour that the Metro's currently have no prospective buyers,

Or the rumour that more senior management are about to get the kiss of death,

Or the rumour that the TWU has them in the sights and SQ is not returning calls emails etc etc.

Dam i love the Redcliffe.

[Monopole]

Dam i love the Redcliffe
Gossip is all the Redcliffe is good for these days :{

[EMB120ER]

Don't for get the poles

mono.......


Oh I get it.

[metrodashbrazconkie]

So no 400s then? :{

[Ref + 10]

Only if you go to Easterns if these pages are to be believed.

[flightidleflat]

Skippers pays - late yet again. What is going on?

[BrazDriver]

Perhaps a new thread should be started titled "The Death Of Skippers"??

[SSUPPDAWG]

they have had 10 years or more to get this right...!! and they still cant do it....:mad:
frustrating isnt the word......!!!! put 2 in the back of skippers head and be done with it....the death of skippers now showing at and airport near you..!!!:ugh:

[vee tail]

"10 Years or more " :confused:

Whats been 10 years:confused:

Because pays late why is skippers going bust????

Considering owner is multi millionaire with about 4 other companies as big as skippers "aviation "

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Why is anyone suprised ?.

Multi Millionaires generally do not have a whole pay roll sitting in the bank, one fortnight pay would be what 400K, no one has that money sitting in the bank.

If there is a cash flow problem, historically speaking pays are late due to a huge array of lame excuses, did the pay lady have another baby per chance ?(better the pays go in late than allowing the Westpac to reposses a Dash8).

Considering this whole topic (the last 427 posts and 80,000 odd views) suggests the company is drastically short of flight crew, aircraft utilisation could be low right, what if so low the ingoings are less that the outgoings ?, many made men have been un-made by this simple math.

Women and children first.

[stevie g]

Guys

Just because some rich guy "owns" a "pty ltd" company don;t expect him to tip in some of his own cash when it's going under ...... that's NOT the way the rich stay that way .......

[BrazDriver]

Dog, You also forget the amount of work Skippers bleeds to X-hires, another great way to keep money in someone else's bank!

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Word has it ( Hi Veetail ) eight more Captains had interviews at another blue tail operator, five of whom on the death pencil, did not realise they had that many Metro Captains :ooh:.

[Mecarsa Bitrusty]

I just happen to be talking to a mate the other day who works for this mob (not a Pilot) and he reckons that Braz FO’s are on a higher pay scale than Dash FO’s and Metro FO’s are still well and truly on the centerlink pay scale! What the hell is with that? And no one is really sure what the captains are on, line, supervisory, check it doesn’t seem to make any difference these days. Is this business being running by professionals or just a bunch of try hard yes men and women!!!!!!

It’s time that SQ woke up and smelt the burnt jet fuel, or soon to be lack off, because this next mass exodus may be the last that this little privately owned company can handle!
NO PILOTS = NO COMPANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bazza stub]

I hear there is a free cab ride from any flying school at Jandakot to the Skippers terminal for anyone with a CPL, CIR and 40G :}

[Towering Q]

Hey, that's not cheap you know...$48 last time I did it. Things are looking up at Skippers.:D

Do they pay for you to get back or is there no need?

[Green gorilla]

SAPL do the same thing with cab charges for the sim

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Did your pays go in on time ?.

[aviationflyer]

i didn't think you were still on the payroll

[Shed Dog Tosser]

I didn't think I was either ?, well they have not paid me for several years, so i guess you're right, well done AF !!!, i'm glad to see thinking is working out OK for you.

[vee tail]

I guess skippers is going broke again/still.:ooh:

Gotta love the add on SDT post.

It may be removed soon. It says "Gay and Lesbian Film Festival "

Dam it .....it did change

AF I guess thinking works out for me too........ Ihad same thoughts:ok:

[P47]

Hear hear, very well put!

[Shed Dog Tosser]

So did your pays go in on time ? :), yes i know, its all bollocks.

P47, what/who are you referring too ?.

[Engineer_aus]

A few engineers are also leaving.

[aviationflyer]

you seem a little 2 interested for someone that hasnt worked at sa for years sdt

[Shed Dog Tosser]

No, just a long memory.

Never let a good deed go unpunished, something about dish best served cold.

Incidently do you have anything to add to this thread ?, if not good bye and good luck.

[the wizard of auz]

This thread is cooling a little. What happened?....... all the blokes that were on here chatting about this mob move on to greener pastures or something?.
I was chatting to a CEO for a mining company yesterday, and the name Skippers was mentioned a few times.......... and unfortunately for them, none of the references were complimentary. How are things there now?. same crewing problems?.

[Zhaadum]

Wiz,

Maybe they all left?

Z.:ok:

[P.O.M]

Is it true that SQ has put the company up for sale?

"Any old iron... any old iron...." :}

[Led Zep]

$150 million. GH has jumped/pushed. So go the rumours. Now MC, DB and RF just need to follow. :E

[Monopole]

I wouldn't expect anybody to spend 150 mill on a leaky boat, rather sit back and wait for it to finish sinking. There will be abit of work, a few cheap aircraft and possibly a few suitable pilots to go to other operators.

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Two thirds of those other names may already be well known and already tried to jump ship.

:}, how do you like those apples.

From what i hear ( rumour has it :) ) they are spending more time trying to chase departed/departing staff for money than trying to replace them, good choice.

[Icarus2001]

I heard that too. Probably SQ thinks if he chases a few people for bonds those still there will think twice about leaving.

If GH has resigned then they are in deep doo doo. MC cannot do both jobs and not many people that could step in to that position, would step in to that position.

This is going to get interesting....no CEO/General manager and no Head C&T.

[Led Zep]

SQ originally was asking closer to $200m (rumoured), so much for being a temporary CEO.
Hey, I could do the job...all I'd need to do is walk around with a cheesy grin and impress clients with timtams in the VIP room. They're hungry? Being money-savvy, get the terminal girls to check with the rampys to see if there are any leftover croissants off XUE from this mornings jundee flight. What? It's in wiluna? Must be a mix up, sort it out later. Oh well time for the visit to engineering to give the impression I'm keeping in touch with the workers...it's a long walk down to tech records and maintence planning so if I only do it once a year it is a goodyear. Mind those red tagged metro tyres, jeez that one looked like it had a fast track landing.
Upon return to my glass castle I'll get my lovely personal assistant to do my photocopying while I hand out a backpack at the latest employee of the month award...and try to get their name right while having a facial expression other than that of "I didn't know you worked here". Wonder if they are 457. Curse fact that breezeway barbie mates aren't here anymore. Oh hang on isn't the new metro fleet manager that former-braz-driving-then-jumping-ship-to-fly-a-q400-in-japan mate of mine? Maybe, seem to recall being invited to an engagement party involving him and someone on the dash...will get personal assistant to check the facts, might be just a rumour. Meanwhile wait for my diving buddies to rock up, burn time by making more impressive excel pie charts illustrating company turnover, employees V cash. Wait that cannot be right!?? When mates arrive commandeer a conquest and head down to leeuwin for the rest of the day and on the return leave a trail of chocolates and champers down the breezeway. Give nemo an extra $50 for coming in on his sixth day. Top the night off by enjoying my 'girlfriend' perform nudie runs up and down Valentine Ave. Ring SQ next morning and tell him how great the company is doing.

What is hard about that?!!

15 minute parking only must not apply to CEO types nice to see the tradition continuing, not allowed to park in the workers' carpark because you don't. :}
Another captain gone, JP you'll be missed. No doubt MC will creatively interpret the rules and regs to discover that yes, three cadets on a dash is legal just like a cpl can fly an M23 in command provided the other guy is a safety pilot and didn't log anything. I'd let it go, and concentrate on not forgetting position reports on center next time I'm in XFV. But we've all done that and the coey is there just to put the gear down, nothing else. :bored:
I honestly don't know who would buy the place. Oh would it not be ironic if lindsay knocked on the door with a cheque but I think he's laughing far too much. It is sad, in a way.


Last one to leave turn the bugs off.
:E

[Shed Dog Tosser]

LHR didn't you recently say:

I am of the same opinion as Vee Tail, the company is not without its issues, but it is not a bad place to work
and :
You just can't polish a turd, i know, i've tried.

What gives ?, are you joining the ranks of us escapee's ;).

Viva la revolution !!!!.

[the wizard of auz]

I believe that escapee, has escaped and is now enjoying grass of a far greener shade. :E

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Having ones scrotum lanced daily with a hot soldering line qualifies as greener pastures IMHO :).

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

LHRT, F***ing brilliant. LMFAO.:ok:

If you need some professional help I've got the number to a great service called lifeline 13 11 14.

Frq CB

[Towering Q]

Excellent work Led Zep.:ok:

Have you thought about approaching the commercial networks (poor choice of word:E) and becoming the script writer for a new action drama series.

Maybe someone out there could think of a good name but I think Gary Sweet could play SQ, or maybe Simon Westaway might be more suitable? Hmm.

[Icarus2001]

Maybe someone out there could think of a good name but I think Gary Sweet could play SQ, or maybe Simon Westaway might be more suitable? Hmm.What about barman Dave from Minder?

http://www.philipthorne.co.uk/images/portfolio/5/Glyn-Edwards.jpg

Or after further consideration...
http://republicans.energycommerce.house.gov/Media/Image/MrBurns.jpg

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Well atleast Mr Burns of Springfield appears to have a clue on whats happening to his powerplant.

If one is to believe:

*what is written here on pprune,

* what i've experienced myself,

* what every person that i know that works/has worked there and does not have a brown tide mark on their nose knows,

* what CEO's of mines approaching other operators indicates, and,

* the number of aircraft parked up during peak hours whilst other operators aircraft are parked on their parking bays indicates,

Well, i'd be pretty bloody worried about my business and would be trying to correct the error of the organisations ways.

I do not believe that is apparent in ones actions.

[Brasilian Bird]

Led Zep,

PMSL!!! This is the funniest thing I have read here in ages!! Or, it would be if it weren't all true... :(

Where's JP off to then, was wondering when he'd make the Great Escape, nice bloke always good to work with. Word has it RF can't get another job in aviation because everyone else knows what he's really like, the guy goes on about customer servce and image and all that crap, yet at times could be regularly seen losing his 'nana at some poor terminal girl behind the check in counter- how's that for your positive PR RS???! Not to mention his dropping in at the worst time from his 'corporate'(aka diving holiday) trips right when ramp was at its busiest and couldn't afford to spend the extra time running around after him and his mates...

Oh yes and let's not forget chasing all the p!ssed pax around the tarmac after said winery charter flights... the apron is a safe environment for that, not!!! :E

Last I heard the hardworking fish was off to better things, let's hope his rosters have improved somewhat since then!!! :}

For anyone wanting to know how much this company values its staff (in case everyone already didnt) I recall running into a check in chick in tears from the stress, and she made.... get this... $8 per hour for working a 40 hour week. (Of course, only 38 of those were paid) No wonder they all left!!!

[P.O.M]

The thread has been going a while and regurgitated similar points over that time, place is cr@p... people leaving... not enough crews... etc

But RS is gone, SQ has had a play and decided to sell, GH has decided to throw in the towel... so with that kind of siesmic shift at the top, where can the staff see themselves now in the near future? Is there a future?

In my time there the staff for the most part are a great bunch of people, doing alot with little... well those that stick around do... but for those teetering on the edge of looking for something else, do they or hold off?

Ok, an airline (term used loosely :p) isnt something thats going to sell overnight, is it worth hanging in there to see what transpires or take the writing on the wall as the order to abandon ship?

The company has had some changes through management in the last 12 months, surely this would be a red flag to CASA (apart from the obvious of June last year)

I see the current situation raising some interesting questions about the longevity of the company, is this (the possible sale should it eventuate) the turning point or are the problems too deeply ingrained?

[bazza stub]

Heard from a mate that the Dash F/O's arent getting their payrise. Company decided not to tell them this officialy, they were just hoping they went away.

That's gonna help things a lot :ugh:

[Mr. Hat]

I wonder if one of the larger local operators will buy skippers out and use all that tarmac space for a jet service. Seems jets won't happen under the skippers flag.

[Route-me]

Heard that one too..... and current t & c conditions just got worse for all new hires, 1000 hrs per year and 90 days instead of the previous 900 hrs and 30 days with NO increase in pay.

Bunch of F/Os soon to leave and more captain resignations on the way...

SQ you just dont learn do u :ugh:

[skippers_mole]

Been told the story goes....

It appears that the braz boys were secretly given a pay rise late last year, making them earn around 5g more than their Dash 8 colleagues :confused:

Through the normal rumor-mill (crew room :ok:), the dash boys soon found out

Dash FOs got together and wrote a letter to their CP politely asking for a match in pay...

Apparently, this was't the CP's problem, as he was going on holiday....:*

The letter was then directed the the acting CP, not his problem either :eek:

With initiative, the letter was re-directed to the CEO / acting CEO himself. Quick response from the man, saying the matter will be dealt with accordingly when the CP returns from holiday

CP returned in march :sad:

Dash boys patiently waited for some news :rolleyes:

and waited... :sad:

and waited... :(

and have been told 'sorry', matter is not being dealt with any further.

[bazza stub]

Skippers Mole, that is axactly what I was told. Makes you wonder what they will do when more than half of their F/O's ,who are currnetly looking elsewhere or are actually about to leave, walk away. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Not sure exactly why any of you guys are so suprised, the last twenty odd pages pretty much sums it up.

From what is written here, before it was turd sandwiches in the award, then the EBA, then the AWA, then the ITEA, why would you expect a CA to be any better ?, which union was involved ?, how long did the negotiation phase take ? :ouch:.

Vote with your feet folks, you'll sleep better at night and have a better lifestyle.

Is the "privledge" of flying a dash or bras really worth the cost of being part of such a culture.

[Route-me]

more than half of their F/O's ,who are currnetly looking elsewhere or are actually about to leave, walk away.


i think coastwatch may have something to do with that! :D, maybe they'll learn this time

[flyon dawall]

I doubt it :ugh: .....the opportunity to make another 40g is far too tempting....lol

Re pay i.e. Braz/dash debarcle; money ain't likely to make a difference to the ones it has effected most....the horse has already bolted so to speak and one can't blame them.

All the best...the grass is greener :ok:

[Jango Fett]

This thread is as long and drawn out as some of the stories that the FO's have to endure when rostered on with %#, AKA. Roger RAMJET. Same sh!t OVER AND OVER AND OVER. :hmm:

Retaining FO's may be better if a sterile cockpit was raised from ten thousand to anything below FL450.

We all know how good you are. Stop telling us.

PLEASE MAKE IT STOP :{:{:{

(Well spotted)

[lemel]

hi folks,

can anyone tell me what the pay is like (a figure) for the captains and fo's on the braz and dash at skippers. i know network are paying about 86k for captains and 52k for fo's on the braz.

lemel

[flyon dawall]

The price is life......inprisonment

[the wizard of auz]

Ask Roger Ramjet how good he was as an ultralight instructor. ;)
I bet he misses those army style flying overalls. :E

[MACH082]

What do some of you fellas expect at skippers? paying 30K to get a metro FO gig as a green CPL with 200TT, then moan and complain 12 months down the track that you are being treated like ****e. Your then stuck there waiting for the illusive ICUS as an FO, with 70 hours command from your CPL and 1000 hours FO time. You feel its a real step back to go drive a 210 in the bush cause you are up the front of a more substantial bird now, yet the piston twin operators wont hire you for some command and you can't work out why. long story short your stuck at skippers moaning about how tough it is, waiting for ICUS, not enough guys left to give it, and the brilliant cunning short cut into the dream jet job that you thought you found was really just a mirage. The guys you trained with that went bush are now finishing their 500 multi command, some off to the majors and others getting commands above you, and you have not achieved anything but a bitter taste in your mouth. I hope Mummy and Daddy still pat you on the head when you walk through the front door showing you off to their friends and boasting about how well you have done for yourself.

Skippers was good a few years ago, you fellas made it the way it is by coughing up the coin for a shortcut. The rest of the industry is booming, yet skippers are bleeding.

I apologise to the good folk at skippers that have done it the right way, You are the ones that keep the place together. Greener pastures will happen to everyone in these good times, one day you will look back on it all and smile.

Chow

[Led Zep]

Mach, do not lump all those who work/worked there within the same boat. Do not blame the "cadets" for the trouble the company is in, they are the result of a twisted culture and sick management. I know you have never worked at Skippers so here is a heads up - the first person ever to pay for a job there is still employed by the company in a very, very high position.
:=:=

Ciao for now machie.

[BrazDriver]

I'm with Mach!

There are exceptions to the rule, and everything has contributed to the way it is! Not just pilots. RF is a good start.

[flyon dawall]

Brazdriver, there's nothing to be gained by pointing the finger, the problem is far greater, it's become a culture which stems from the top - everyone knows that.
Mach summed it up perfectly, say no more!

[vee tail]

Yep mach is right for a lot....


No its not the culture and yes some finger pointing can be done!!!
To say it is a culture is cooping everyone together.

You may be supprised that there are a few people there for a while who are generally happy and just rock up and enjoy the job and go home to sink piss!!!!


No-one gives two sh@#s about whingers

Some people do enjoy poling around the sky:ok:

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Brazdriver,

Is he still there ?, thought the organisation would have gotten smart and found someone,,,,,,,,,,IMHO that was an IQ over 60 and capable of managing, looking beyond his nose.

I remember someone whacked him a few years ago, and he still did not work it out, dumbass.

That person is just one fine example of the culture that is embraced.

Lemel, if you are seriously considering joining the ranks, you can do better, far better in this climate.

"Cadetship" is a seriously floored proposal, do they seriously not know that they will always be referred too as cadets ?, sure a Metro/Bras or Dash 8 will be PIC'd by a CPL holder, just keep dreaming.

[bazza stub]

Sorry did I say 210s? I meat Partenavias.

[vee tail]

Jedi has flees as well as many other things... he has flown 210's
My shout has things that eat flees... he has flown 210's
There is no doubt Wiz has flees.. some quarantine have never seen before... he flown 210's
I have these recuring rashes and many 210 hrs:E:E

Not sure where this goin but thought it worth a mention:ok:

[the wizard of auz]

Hell, even my Flea's have flea's........... but they all bail when I approach a 210.

[flyon dawall]

Word has it as many as 7 F/O's are pipelining their departure, "Exodus Mach2" (R).(F). will be available in widescreen. Advance screening daily between sunrise and sunset till the end of July, August or maybe it's September..on the corner of Valentine Rd.

Story is about a bunch of guys who thought flying metro's, braz's and dash's would be a rewarding career move, much to their dismay :ugh: they realise it isn't so. An accident becomes increasingly immenant so like their RFDS counterpart one by one they decide to abandon ship. Their final steps along "Breezeway Av" are deceptively captured for inclusion in next months CRM course which has a slight twist, namely a hidden agenda revealing the company's newly adopted crewing policy - First Officers or F/O's as they're commonly refered to are wait for it......so to become Flight Options. An investigator heading a special task force op " Y haven't CASA shut them down yet" stumbles across an unlikely lead whilst shopping on Ebay one evening. Further investigation reveals an increase in production/supply of Skippers Special edition blow up dolls which come complete with 2 bars and coffee holder. More and more it's apparent things are very grim.

A must see; from begining to end this movie (based on real life events) will have you clutching the edge of your seat, you'll laugh and cry all in the same emotion.

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Flyon,

I saw the directors cut of episode one, there was so much chest beating, bleached hair and ass grabbing with so few women in the cast, i can only conclude it is some sort of new age gay porn.

[bazza stub]

Ok end of another week who left?? :}

[flyon dawall]

Don't you mean who's left? Those that love there job.

[spiderbat3008]

Apparently AD now also gone to greener pastures as well. Even flighties are suppossedly going due to similar issues as tech crew.

[flyon dawall]

Spiderbait,

Yeah, was speaking to a crew y'day they said simular; sums it up when a man of AD's stature decides it's time.
Really who can blame the girls for thinking the same, seems they're treated with even less respect.

That aside, Skips has kick started a lot of pilots & F/A's careers, some of whom otherwise may not have had the opportunity - works both ways even though it may seem one sided at 5am on a monday morning.

[kair1234]

whos left

a kickass bunch of top blokes

[EMB120ER]

KIAR - WTF?


Tick tock tick tock .........................

[Mecarsa Bitrusty]

EMB120ER

Hey maybe they can come work with you at Network? ;)

[Skippers Pilot]

Two senior Dash Captains finished this week, GH & AD, off to RFDS and NJ. One Dash Captain handed in his notice, off to SA, and word in the breeze way is that two Dash FO’s to hand in their notices shortly if not already, destination unknown! With no recruiting currently on this fleet and now just one C&T Captain, things are looking bleak!

[spiderbat3008]

Guess they ll have to train some more FOs into the left or pay big bucks for the rent a Capt.........they seem to be able to afford that all the time I'm told.

[bazza stub]

You mean the ones that are staying :E I have been led to believe that not even the offer of command will keep the current crop of F/Os around.

[Stationair8]

Is Rowan Bachelor still their, he came over from Tamair to be fleet manager on the Metro 23's?

[EMB120ER]

Hi Rusty Car

Sorry not at Network, but have given it some thought lately, also not qualified to fly a braz, just thought that it was a good name!!


Tick tock . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
The Skippers Doomsday clock is ticking!!

[Fizzer]

Rowan lasted about eight months, and that must have been seven years ago.

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Rumour has it the TWU are maneuvering to give this operator a bare bum spanking in Court, apparently severals staff over issues with bond / AWA / CA / harrassment in the workplace.

Very nice !!!!!.

[Stationair8]

Fizzer, thanks for that, sounds like he got out when it Skippers was much better shape.
RIP Skippers.

[Jedi]

Hey Vee Tail,
Not sure if your implying my flees are from the 210, the dogs ive worked for, or the good times ive had?!?

But a good petrol bath got rid of em!:ok:

[flyon dawall]

Interesting stats.
Check out the Scoreboard: 57/500
Pilot attrition rate 0.114
For every 8.7 posts to this thread, Skippers loose another pilot.

[ArthurCrump]

I've heard there are very few check and training staff at Skippers. Anyone know why? Seems skippers will struggle until their numbers improve.

[SSUPPDAWG]

Mr Crump,
3 have departed over the last week....!!!
The answer is very simple, treat your experienced C & T capts with respect ( this goes for ALL your crews) and staff, maybe they might stick around..!!!!!
Treat them with contempt and they will walk....these are the facts at the wonderful world of skippers, something that is still yet to sink in after all these years.....:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh: :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Wow, over 500 posts.

It really makes you think about how word of mouth is a very powerfull tool.

Wonder if there is anyone out there in the Australian aviation world that has not been given the good medicine about this operator ?.

Wonder if that effects the quality and quantity of applications for flight crew, gee, i sure hope so :).

[Mr. Hat]

I wonder if there is an award that would go to an operator that achieves a certain number of posts.

Like a pprune medal of honour. A bronze turd sandwich or something special.

[flyon dawall]

"Golden Flea Awards", and the winner is skippers.....

[spiderbat3008]

S.dawg
How very true. They are walking from all areas I believe. Even flighties aren't game to fly with some anymore and their exodus has started too.
Im sure the fleas will want to go back on furrier things as well soon. 210s might be a better option as well.
At least RF will have more car parking spaces to sell again so crew can get to work on time.

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Yeh, and what about the other positive stuff, like ,,,,,, apparently they have a new Dash 8 Captain, just checked to line, has failed the instrument rating renewal three times in the last six months, what about that standard ehhh ?, she's a little beauty, not.

[flyon dawall]

Shed Dog,
Don't stoop to that level, bagging a fellow crew member ain't pretty, it'll come back to bight you on the arse when you least suspect it - what goes around, comes around... :ouch:
Lets get back to talking about fleas..............

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Flyon,

Whilst I agree with your sentiments, IMHO this person has left a trail of destruction in their wake, done the wrong by many many fellow pilots.

Don't believe me ?, next time you are out drinking with folk from other companies, mention the name and see what ensues.

[vee tail]

I do remeber SHED DOG that you were far from the reliable employee.
Such a disgruntal person wants to bag individuals who are working there.
Who cares what he has failed LARD E DAR!!:{

Read the rest of his posts!! Such a positive contributor:ok:

Any way on a nicer front hows the job situation:E

Incidently do you have anything to add to this thread ?, if not good bye and good luck.
Your words

[aviationflyer]

well put VT, i was almost going to say the same myself:ok:

[myshoutcaptain]

it's quite clear this thread has had its day.

does anyone care what else is happening at this operator?it is no different to the normal business model in a year 12 business studies book - staff move on - staff are hired. boring.

most axes seem to be blunt now -

kair12345 - on the money.

tick tock - seems my watch has stopped , it doesnt run on crap.

[Shed Dog Tosser]

Veetail, well I guess you've worked it all out, good job,,,,,,, ?. Never claimed to post with the intent of pleasing you or your buddies, sorry for the disappointment.

Job situation is great, has been for quite sometime, but thanks for asking .

Guess we'll just see in time :).

[MACH082]

Bagging fellow aviators is a big no - no boys and none of us where born as chuck yeager reincarnated! Its hard to keep those IF skills where we would all like to have them, after all there is never much occasion for full IMC approaches in this wonderful state, so can you blame someone for being a tad rusty, or not having the spare coin to brush up on those skills regularly!

Thanks to the crew of WAX the other day. Very professional :)

[EMB120ER]

seems like your watch is not the only thing not working.

Not too long now, folks

Tick tock turd tick tock turd (just dos'nt havee the same ring about it)

it dos'nt matter whether you can hear the ticking or not, because time stands still for no man, comapny or (Insert BUYERS name here)

[flyon dawall]

I think a lot of people fail to see that the only thing ticking and tocking is SQ bank balance.

[flightidleflat]

ticking and tocking in a downward spiral as he struggles to pay his guys their wages and expense claims on time?

[Shed Dog Tosser]

What, pays late again/still, yet you guys think things are OK ?.

Where are those five new Dash 8's, you know, the ones coming early 2008 ?.

Here's a tip, watch the CASA web site and look at who owns the present aircraft, you may just see the aircraft one by one being refinanced, wonder what that would indicate ?.

Pilots that read what is being presented here and still accept a job there deserve no sympathy.

MSC, guess this thread hasn't had its day.