Thomas Cook

[marko1]

Given that the current single A321 only operates 5 days per week during the Winter, I'd say it's a given that it'll remain at one "unit" next Winter.

And please stop dreaming, no an A330 won't be 'making an appearance' at Bristol.

Back to the real world.



Actually the based winter aircraft has at least one daily service each day during winter and Thomas cook has already announced a new route to Malta from April 2017 onwards. There is plenty of scope for expansion from Brs both summer and winter

[sunshine79]

TCX to introduce JMK Sundays and Thursdays from MAN for S17 as well as the following TCX routes

MAN-AGP
MAN-CCC
MAN-SPU
NCL-PFO
LGW-MCO
BHX-REU
LTN-PMI
LTN-MAH
LTN-IBZ
LTN-CFU
MAN-ALC
BFS-IBZ
BFS-LPA
GLA-ALC

[toledoashley]

Sunshine79 - are the Luton routes TCX operated, or allocation on EZY flights as they have had this year?

[sunshine79]

No, TCX operated

[toledoashley]

Its not listed on here though: https://www.thomascookairlines.com/en/generated/timetable_S2017.pdf

[sunshine79]

They haven't been released yet, been told in-house though

[AIRPORT66]

Has Thomascook finished loading there Bfs programme for 2017, noticed no Heraklion flights mentioned yet or are they not happening.

[Zorua]

Hello! ALC-STN also appears in the document of the timetable for S17 but in the 2 frequencies appears an asterisk. Do you know what that means? Thanks :)

A greeting!

[fjencl]

Does 2017 mean that Luton airport will become a tcx base (seasonal) !!!

[marko1]

Does anyone know if this is a complete list of the offering for next summer or will there be more to add in due course with other carriers for example. In particular I am thinking of Brs and cwl. It appears that Brs has lost a few flights so far

[sunshine79]

This is what we were told this week. I'm assuming LTN will be W flights. TCTO are trying to get seats on the likes of NCL-AGP and ALC to restart operations. They can't get the beds in resorts so are having to restart operations to these resorts slowly, this is why they can't put a TCX a/c onto the route. I would imagine more routes will be announced during the summer

[MANFOD]

There is no mention of MAN-SFO in the long haul section although there were indications/expectations some weeks ago that this route would commence in 2017.

Has there been any confirmation, official or otherwise, that SFO will operate?

[LTNman]

Historically Thomas Cook always seems to avoid operating aircraft into Luton. I don't know why that is but I can't ever remember a year when they have.

[pamann]

Hello! ALC-STN also appears in the document of the timetable for S17 but in the 2 frequencies appears an asterisk. Do you know what that means? Thank you

Indicates that it will operate part season, rather than May to October. Based on this year's Stansted programme, it would seem that an extra aircraft is based for the English school six week holiday period (possibly GLA based rest of season).

Anyhow it's good to see a charter service to ALC from Stansted. It's been some years since BY and BWL used to operate the route. :ok:

[jfy1999]

I noticed several flights in the S17 timetable were marked with an asterisk, what does that mean?

[pamann]

jfy1999

I thought I just answered this question in the post above :confused:

[canberra97]

Well you could have added the word asterisk before the word indicates than none of us would have been confused��

[LiamNCL]

Well done to the Captain & crew of yesterdays TCX6334 NCL-FUE Turning around on the taxi to take off to get some drunken idiot removed from the flight.

[TSR2]

Turning around on the taxi to take off to get some drunken idiot removed from the flight.

But how on earth did he/she/them get on the aircraft in the first place. Someone not doing their job.

[paully]

Gate staff will let anyone on just so they can avoid confrontation..sad state of affairs

[SWBKCB]

Gate staff are paid a pittance. Airlines have screwed down airport charges so much that airports turn their terminals into shopping centres and theme pubs.

It always staggers me that the economics of an industry which is always telling us that "safety is our first priority" is so economically linked to alcohol consumption - pathetic.

[The96er]

Gate staff will let anyone on just so they can avoid confrontation..sad state of affairs

The Gate staff are trying to board 100-200 passengers as quickly as possible as mandated by the airlines. Unless someone is completely legless or shouting, they probably wouldn't notice if someone is boarding drunk.

[paully]

You sure about that??..last time out of Liverpool, the gate staff let exactly one of those through. He was stopped by the despatcher at the bottom of the stairs and denied boarding.I agree a difficult job, but why should the paying public have to run the risks of these buffoons.

[SWBKCB]

I agree a difficult job, but why should the paying public have to run the risks of these buffoons.

Because the paying public don't want to pay to have the job done properly.

[goldeneye]

Does anyone know why the leased A330 Voyager has not had the Premium Cabin installed, I know they have put in the TCX seating and IFE, but seems odd not to offer the Premium Cabin.

[shionhughes]

Hi does anyone have the details of the flights operated by the based condor 757-300 this summer from Manchester
Many thanks

[Twiglet1]

Does anyone know why the leased A330 Voyager has not had the Premium Cabin installed, I know they have put in the TCX seating and IFE, but seems odd not to offer the Premium Cabin
Can't see the RAF putting squaddies in Premium class if they call the aircraft back....

[alasdair1]

Hi folks
Just a heads up. The official launch of summer 2017 begin tomorrow
New departure airports expected also new destinations

[LBIA]

Hope they return to LBA.

[HH6702]

Hopefully something new from NCL also.
Anyone able to get near a travel agent later on they have the new brochures

[fjencl]

Hopefully they will start operations from Edinburgh,Inverness & Aberdeen.
With based aircraft there.

[alasdair1]

Im hoping they continue. To use easyjets bodrum route from edi in s17
Due to glasgow to bjv ditched in 16 &in 17 with ezy bookings up on the route
But a base at edi would be great they did have the w patern tcx flights few years back

[LiamNCL]

Hopefully something new from NCL also.
Anyone able to get near a travel agent later on they have the new brochures

Not expecting much other than what we know , PMI Weekly & the return of PFO

[HH6702]

on sale now on website.
PMI is 6x weekly
TFS is 4x weekly and yes we have Paphos as a new flight

NCL..

[PlymouthPixie]

It would appear the 1x weekly PMI from EXT has been axed.

[alasdair1]

At current bjv has been axed at all uk airports. Apart from man and lgw shame as. It was busy last yr stat wise

[HH6702]

Ncl has LEI for summer 2017

[CabinCrewe]

where are all these new bases and previously unserved destinations?

[sunshine79]

Not everything is on sale yet, official launch is on Thursday

[sparkysam]

Hi all just had confirmation we are on air tanker flight from MAN to CUN. They are saying we should not see any difference in quality, however this happened last year the seats were poor and IFE system was a throw back to the 90's. Will it be better this year.
in anticipation sam

[janeyTA]

If they hadn't told you it was the Air Tanker you would never know any different.

[sparkysam]

Thank you Janey, will tell all on our arrival home
Cheers sam

[Austrianscot]

When they first starting flying it didn't have the latest thomas cook internal upgrade but they upgraded it in July and it's now pretty much the same as the rest.

[All names taken]

When they first starting flying it didn't have the latest thomas cook internal upgrade but they upgraded it in July and it's now pretty much the same as the rest.

Unfortunately that will be too late for some. I remember speaking to a friend who did this route on this plane some months ago. He said the flight was appalling because they had used a 'military transporter'. He had quite a rant about it. As the sort of guy that would normally go for a premium upgrade, he kinda took this as a personal insult and went on to say that he would never use TCX long haul again.

[sparkysam]

Thanks ANT if you read my post 2333 from last year I travelled on that particular aircraft. The cabin senior cabin crew attendant told me it would be taken out of service and updated in summer 15. Its to late for us to do anything now so we will see. I will comment on our return. Just to add we had an Email a few weeks ago saying we would travel on HI Fly
Cheers Sam

[sf01]

Hi, the Airtanker aircraft was taken out of service in July to be refitted with the proper IFE as it wasn't put in correctly ( overhead instead of individual) for that month it was replaced by a Hifly A330 which is returning this year and both aircraft will be based at Glasgow from end of June to end of July and from Standted in August. Last year lots of complaints were received about the Hilfy aircraft but I believe it might have also been refitted so it's inline with TCX own fleet.

[janeyTA]

The Air Tanker was fully refitted last year. If you weren't told it was the AT you wouldn't know the difference between that and the other A330s. Outside livery the same, inside seats, IFE, etc etc the same. It's been like that since the end of August last year.
.

[LandingConfig]

Air Tanker is based at GLA for most of the summer I believe, with the exception of a few weeks in August when it flies out of STN to support the English summer holidays.

AFAIK HiFly is based for June/July then STN for August like you said.

[LandingConfig]

The Air Tanker was fully refitted last year. If you weren't told it was the AT you wouldn't know the difference between that and the other A330s. Outside livery the same, inside seats, IFE, etc etc the same. It's been like that since the end of August last year.
.
There are some subtle differences, but at first glance, and to your average passenger, they look identical.

[VickersVicount]

TCX operating TFS from GLA daily for Winter16/17 according to their online timetable. Gradual increase as used to be just 3x Wk.

[OltonPete]

VickersVicount

Re Tenerife - same at BHX, after years and years of a pathetic weekly service it goes 4 a week this winter. They will now be up against Norwegian, Vueling, Thomson, Ryanair and Monarch of which Vueling is new and FR & ZB have increased their offering.



Pete

[111KAB]

Thomas Cook in talks with Lufthansa to sell its fleet of 91 aircraft | This is Money (http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-3558197/Thomas-Cook-talks-rivals-sell-fleet-91-aircraft.html)

[AirportPlanner1]

I would find a takeover by Greybull/Monarch a bit odd as the things that Thomas Cook do are the very things that Monarch just got rid of - charters and long haul. Having achieved a common fleet they would also find themselves in possession of aircraft that aren't A320s/21s again.

[BRAKES HOT]

I put this in another thread as well - Perhaps the first newspaper reports regarding ZB for sale are still correct - ZB/MT doesn't make sense - I view this as greybull talking themselves up thus presenting Monarch as a better proposition to potential suitors

[valefan16]

Anyone any idea what aircraft they are using to Heraklion from Manchester on the Tuesday afternoon flight end of May?

[LandingConfig]

Anyone any idea what aircraft they are using to Heraklion from Manchester on the Tuesday afternoon flight end of May?
767-300 scheduled.

[crackling jet]

Just out of interest, as I know that next years holiday's are now on sale, but does anyone know what S17 holds for Bristol, ie how many and what type aircraft for Brs and any new routes coming our way after all the rumour's earlier in the year

[sunshine79]

BRS-MLA is a new route

[BAladdy]

TCX cabin crews began voting yesterday on industrial action over what there union claim are dangerous cuts to break periods.

Thomas Cook air crews plan to go on strike over 'dangerous' cuts to their break | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3577612/Half-term-holiday-hell-thousands-families-1-000-Thomas-Cook-air-crews-plan-strike-dangerous-cuts-allowed-break-times.html)

Strikes could starts during the forthcoming May half term holiday, if the vote comes back for strike action

[valefan16]

We fly with them on the Thursday of that week... Not great, hope it gets sorted. How would that pan out if they strike? Cancelled holidays or sub chartered aircraft?

[schooner]

It won't come to a strike.

[Capt Scribble]

The Union fed the story to the press; what a senseless thing to do when the charter industry is already battling serious problems caused by political instability.

[EGAC is Better]

The Union fed the story to the press; what a senseless thing to do when the charter industry is already battling serious problems caused by political instability.

Is the story true? Will cabin crew only get 20 mins break in a 12 hour shift if it implemented? Are CC being used more as glorifed shop assistants than as a key part of safe operations of the aircraft?

[Capt Scribble]

Rest breaks are mandated under EASA, but how the crew are worked is actually up to the supervisor on the day. Crew are there to carry out safety procedures, anthing else is at the direction of the Company to make money and provide a pleasant flight. Crew are incentivised by a commission system, so its up to them how hard they work. There are some other issues, but as ever, there are 2 sides to every story.

[HeartyMeatballs]

If you're sensible there's always a chance to build in a break into the day.

Get the first service done. Clear up. Assign rest to 2/3 crew and close off a galley to rest. Have two crew on hand to assist passengers. Then once the time is up, swap over.

Yes, as crew you're always 'on duty', but it's no different to an office worker taking a break knowing the phone could go at any time.

Or, we could increase turnaround times by 20 minutes, and push up prices or reduce ROCE on each aircraft and risk jobs or bases?

I don't believe for one minute that on the long sectors TCX do that there can't be time found for 20 minutes of rest.

Perhaps the pursers could be taught better time management?

[cfol]

Hi, I've got a question about a Thomas Cook Scheduled flight - not sure if anyone here can help but thought it might be worth a shot.

Any idea if there's a specific time when scheduled flight times are up-dated? I'm interested in Flight MT 2538 (Manchester - Antalya), and want to know when flight times have been changed between July last year (07:00) and current flight time (14:15).

It's to help me deal with a difficult tour operator who say they were only informed about this change a week ago. I recognise I may be being optimistic in thinking this will help., but any help appreciated.

Best regards,

cfol

[canberra97]

cfol

I can't help you on your specific question but Antalya is a Thomas Cook charter flight not classed as a scheduled flight in the same way as the ex MAN USA flights are.

[Itchin McCrevis]

Any idea if there's a specific time when scheduled flight times are up-dated? I'm interested in Flight MT 2538 (Manchester - Antalya), and want to know when flight times have been changed between July last year (07:00) and current flight time (14:15).There are certain key dates in the scheduling process for the summer 16 season

The first is the world-wide summer slot conference in mid-November, up until that point no airline could be sure that they had got the airport slots at the times they wanted at either end of the route unless they had operated an identical flight at an identical time in summer 15. Up until this point, in the absence of those "historic rights", many of the advertised flight times could only have been provisional.

The second key date was the slot return deadline in mid January by which time the airlines were supposed to have completed their slot swapping/trading and should have firmed up their summer 16 programmes.

This is the way it is supposed to work but some carriers, holiday/charter companies in particular, will continue to add, cut and change things around in response to actual sales trends even as late in the day as this.

[sparkysam]

Hi all please see post 2544. Did not travel on Air Tanker in the end, both flights by older aircraft with downstairs toilets. Very good flights with pleasant crew.
Cheers Sam

[111KAB]

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/61767/thomas-cook-airlines-crew-vote-in-favour-of-strike-action

[valefan16]

Fly with these with our young family next Thursday. Hope this doesn't cause chaos for our holiday as lot of money for us with a new baby.

Nervous!

[azz767]

With regards to the A330 fleet, there doesn't seem to be much fleet rotation as the same bunch of 330's are operating in MAN everyday, have TCX decided to base certain frames for the duration of summer?

[VickersVicount]

likewise its the same 3 essentially at GLA

[LandingConfig]

I think this is due to certain frames having premium economy and some don't.

The two based at GLA (Air Tanker, HiFly) are both all-economy but MDBD, OMYT and MLJL are all 2-class and are usually stuck on the LAX/JFK/BOS routes.

[PQC]

I think this is due to certain frames having premium economy and some don't.

The two based at GLA (Air Tanker, HiFly) are both all-economy but MDBD, OMYT and MLJL are all 2-class and are usually stuck on the LAX/JFK/BOS routes.
Probably because the competition ex EGCC - AA, CO, VS, DL/VS - all have 2-class offering and TCX / MT need to have a similar level of service to attract those pax who want to have a better level of service than Y but aren't prepared to pay the prices charged by the American carriers for their bog-basic cattle-class and certainly won't stump up the extra for 'business'.

[sunshine79]

There is to be a new destination announced on 14th July for Tour Operations, unsure if it will be a TCX flight though

[sunshine79]

New route Manchester to Split Monday's and Friday's for Summer 2017

[chinapattern]

Birmingham - Comiso seasonal from 3 May 2017.

[G TAXi]

Can't understand why there is no longhaul today from TCX at any Scottish airport, today is the start of the Glasgow holidays.

[FRatSTN]

Both the A330's have moved down to STN for the English school holidays. They'll stay there for about six weeks before returning to GLA in September. Seems to be the common set-up now.

[sdh2903]

Can't understand why there is no longhaul today from TCX at any Scottish airport, today is the start of the Glasgow holidays.

Glasgow holidays started 3 weeks ago.

[VickersVicount]

It is the start of the local 'Glasgow Fair' holidays today.

[LandingConfig]

Can't understand why there is no longhaul today from TCX at any Scottish airport, today is the start of the Glasgow holidays.
GLA is the only airport served by TCX. As others stated, the holidays started at the end of June/start of July and the two based A330s from Air Tanker and HiFly are based at STN from the middle of July until the end of August.

Long haul from GLA resumes on the 27th August.

[G TAXi]

Glasgow fair holidays only started today granted schools finished at end of June in Scotland as a whole, there is a lot of buisnesses which this is when the holidays begin. destinations such as Las Vegas and Cancun are mainly Adult holiday destinations. So why there are no flights is beyond me.

[Una Due Tfc]

Have TCX managed to source additional A330s next year or are they struggling like pretty much every other operator without options to exercise?

[LandingConfig]

According to jethros there's an extra A332 joining in April 2017.

[Brigantee]

Come 2017 i think lack of capacity will be the least of many Uk Airlines problems....

[OntimeexceptACARS]

I kniw its been a race to the bottom for years now, and TCX are making money again, but just endured a 4.5 hour flight to the Canaries on a newbuild A321.

Seats comfortable enough except for woeful seat squab length. And I am 5ft8. Can't get any tighter, can it?

[crackling jet]

Anyone have any idea what TCX have in store for Bristol next summer

[cheesebag]

I know Onti... I'm flying out of EMA on Thursday to ACE.. both based TCX aircraft at the mo are DA and DV. ironically the two aircraft I flew to and from HER on last summer.

So if anyone from TCX ops is reading this any chance of a new one being drafted in to EMA for Thursday please :p

[SFCC]

Not a prayer

[dude1882]

Unless one goes Tech, you might end up with a swap... DZ and DY have been up recently, but again the old ones.

[LiamNCL]

Seems like older models are only rotated LGW/EMA/MAN/STN

[azz767]

Reported on another forum that 3 Condor 757-300's will join the TCX fleet for summer 17, and 763 TCCA will be gone back to the lessor, with TCCB not far behind

[LandingConfig]

Just replacing the 767s then?

[azz767]

The source on the forum says the remaining two 767's TCCB and DAJC will go to condor for winter and at the moment both will be back for summer, however both could remain at condor for a further 757-300. So whichever way it goes, UK gains aircraft. And as far as I am aware capacity on the two isn't too different when the 767's are in shorthaul config

[dude1882]

I know Onti... I'm flying out of EMA on Thursday to ACE.. both based TCX aircraft at the mo are DA and DV. ironically the two aircraft I flew to and from HER on last summer.

So if anyone from TCX ops is reading this any chance of a new one being drafted in to EMA for Thursday please :p
G-TCDV looks like it went Tech yesterday aftenoon at EMA, so G-TCDE was bought in from MAN and been operating since... Just missed out on the chance for sharklets ;)

[MKY661]

TCCA will be gone back to the lessor, with TCCB not far behind

TCCB will still be around next Summer, I reckon it'll go after that.

[Boeing737-8]

Does anyone know what will happen with the crewing of the new LTN - DLM. The flight does MAN - DLM - LTN - DLM -MAN. The plane will be an a320.

[Twiglet1]

Boeing

1 crew operates LTN-DLM-MAN and the other MAN-DLM-LTN.
1 crew probably taxi MAN-LTN after the flight and I suspect either a LTN crew will position the day before to go into the Hotel and op MAN-DLM-LTN or a MAN crew will op MAN-DLM-LTN and either taxi straight back or rest in Hotel and taxi back.
Its all glamour for sure....
:{:{

[LiamNCL]

Anyone know if the last remaining A321s in the old livery will be sprayed this winter ? Believe there is still JH,KO,DV,DA & DB in the blue & white.

[azz767]

Are any more A330's supposed to be joining the fleet over the winter? I know there will be a 330 coming for the summer from scandi again as normal but with the extra routes and frequency increases id have thought at least one would be needed

[goldeneye]

azz767 they are due to get OY-VKG from DK, this is one of the A330-300's though, so not sure what they will do with it.

[azz767]

That's what I wondered, especially as the 300's regularly do Europe for DK, this year it was a 200 that came (OY-VKF) and did long haul, which with a 300 coming next year made me wonder whether they would get another 200 of their own. Maybe even two as there was the hi fly bird doing GLA & STA ops as well this year.

[goldeneye]

azz767 the A330-200 is coming as normal as well.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Ex Thomas Cook B757 G-TCBB now in cargo formation as G-DHKF of Dhl Air
https://www.flickr.com/photos/plane_spotting_freak/30468099772/in/dateposted-public/

[goldeneye]

Looks like TCX are getting another A330 from Air Tanker. The TCX website is now listing G-VYGM in addition to the existing leased A330.

Source (https://www.thomascookairlines.com/en/fly-with-us/our-airlines-partners/our-fleet/partner-airlines.jsp)

[azz767]

I take it this will mean G-CHTZ will be getting a premium cabin for next summer as it is part of the 'core fleet'? Also what config is TCXC in currently?

[LandingConfig]

Also what config is TCXC in currently?
All economy I think.

[janeyTA]

I take it this will mean G-CHTZ will be getting a premium cabin for next summer as it is part of the 'core fleet'? Also what config is TCXC in currently?

I thought G-CHTZ had already been fitted with a Premium cabin in April, and TCXC was fitted with one when it was originally refurbished. Only the AT without AFAIK.

[Ipaq]

G-CHTZ is in fit Y49M264 - G-TCXC is in fit Y49M265

[azz767]

G-JMAB 757-300 landing at LGW currently from LIS as TCX38YG? As Lisbon isn't a route does anyone know what its been doing there?

[mart901]

hi - just wondering has anyone flown on an air tanker A330, and how it compares to TCX own metal?

cheers

[dude1882]

Does anybody know why all the Flight Numbers have changed, before it was easy to see where each flight had originated from: MT1XXX LGW, MT2XXX MAN, MT4XXX BHX...

[AlanSinfield]

And I believe Long Haul could be identified by the fact they only had 3 digits eg MTxxx

[roverman]

I heard that it was something to do with code shares with DE.

[Travel Agent]

Every single Thomas Cook aircraft will be either new or refurbished in time for summer 2017, following a £100 million investment.

Cook’s fleet of 89 airplanes carries more than 6.7 million passengers a year to 60 destinations across Europe, Asia, Africa and America.

It includes ten Airbus A330s and AirbusA320s, Airbus A321s, Boeing 757-300s and Boeing 767.

Travel Weekly was told the refurbishment programme will be completed at Cook’s conference in Paphos, Cyprus.

Source: Travel Weekly Website

[paully]

maybe refurbished but I understand they have retained their appalling, DVT inducing legroom on the short/medium haul fleet..I know long haul has improved

[azz767]

I thought the 767's were leaving by mar/apr next year? Or is this happening across the whole group?

[janeyTA]

maybe refurbished but I understand they have retained their appalling, DVT inducing legroom on the short/medium haul fleet..I know long haul has improved

Short/medium haul are 28 - 30" so same or more than TOM and ZB. Their long haul seat pitch has reduced. It was 33" in economy but when they refurbed the A330s and went to 2-4-2 they reduced it to 31", in line with most full service carriers.

[janeyTA]

I thought the 767's were leaving by mar/apr next year?

Two going to Condor at the end of this winter season, and the other one is staying with TCX until the end of Summer 2019 as far as I know.

[azz767]

According to Jethros, the one not going to DE, G-TCCA was WFU mid november

[janeyTA]

According to Jethros, the one not going to DE, G-TCCA was WFU mid november

Sorry, my bad! :eek:

[OltonPete]

Thomas Cook Airlines UK - 17 new routes, seven new own-brand hotels for Summer 2018 on sale (http://thomascookairlinesuk-newsroom.condor.com/en/int/news-article/17-new-routes-seven-new-own-brand-hotels-for-summer-2018-on-sale/)

Spoof or real? From the Thomas Cook website but the wording is really unusual and I am sure they know what they are on about but I don't.

There is a bizarre list of new routes and then miss the best addition for BHX - Thessaloniki, which is actually mentioned in the text later on. Tell me I am seeing things and they haven't listed "Arecife" as a new BHX destination? I suppose it could be classed as new as for the last 40 years flights have gone to Arrecife - is this an alternative spelling?

I was going to say is it work experience week at TC HQ but that would be an insult to the work experience kids.



Pete

[Mr Angry from Purley]

OP
Very strange those routes are as you say nothing new at all in most cases.
Apparently TC prices are up 9% and a better type of Hotel.
Only time will tell if the ploy works I suspect the guys n girls at Jet2 and Thomson will be watching

[GrahamK]

Thomas Cook Airlines UK - 17 new routes, seven new own-brand hotels for Summer 2018 on sale (http://thomascookairlinesuk-newsroom.condor.com/en/int/news-article/17-new-routes-seven-new-own-brand-hotels-for-summer-2018-on-sale/)

Spoof or real? From the Thomas Cook website but the wording is really unusual and I am sure they know what they are on about but I don't.

There is a bizarre list of new routes and then miss the best addition for BHX - Thessaloniki, which is actually mentioned in the text later on. Tell me I am seeing things and they haven't listed "Arecife" as a new BHX destination? I suppose it could be classed as new as for the last 40 years flights have gone to Arrecife - is this an alternative spelling?

I was going to say is it work experience week at TC HQ but that would be an insult to the work experience kids.



Pete
Would suggest it is increased frequency to ACE from BHX

[LiamNCL]

Listing HRG as new from NCL even though it runs this Summer & Winter

[OltonPete]

GrahamK

Well if two is more than 2 then yes but I trust it is a case the press release has beaten the IT team responsible for the booking engine.

I suppose all will be revealed in a few weeks. At a glance it seems a couple of Palma flights replaced by GRO and SKG (apparently it is in the system), Naples has gone back to Thomson but HRG has doubled.

No sign of Preveza in the holiday section.

At least they didn't issue a press release like they did for 2017 with BHX announcing a 5th based aircraft only for it to quietly be swept under the carpet.

Pete

[Travel Agent]

Does anyone know if TC have plans to bring in more A330's to replace the Air Tanker which I believe expire at the end of Summer 17?

[janeyTA]

One is only on lease for the Summer season. The other is with them until early 2018.

[LAX_LHR]

But I think the question is, with no apparent reduction in long haul flying from S17 to S18, if both air Tankers are not with TCX then they will need 2 more A330 for the S18 flying programme.

That then begs the question, will the Air Tanker lease be extended? 2 'new' A330 for TCX? Another leased aircraft?

[azz767]

To me it makes more sense to get two of their own, and standardise the A330 fleet so premium economy is available on all l/h flights as should be the case

[goldeneye]

I suspect they will extend the lease on G-VYGK until they decide on a group wide (MT/DE/DK/HQ) order, I think this has been pushed back to 2019.

Some of the Condor 767's are 20+ years old and the ex MYT A330's of MT/DK are nearing 18 years old, so a fleet renewal will be on the cards in the not to distant future.

[Habana2118]

Have TC received their extra 757-300,s from Condor? Are the 753 fleet fitted with new cabin interiors yet?

[rutankrd]

Have TC received their extra 757-300,s from Condor? Are the 753 fleet fitted with new cabin interiors yet?

Three in service - 2 at Manchester and 1 at Gatwick however you will be pressed to notice any difference as they retain the Condor branding seating and last two digits of the serial.

The forth aircraft to be operated in the UK will remain fully German registered and crewed.

[Boeing_James]

Does anybody know why one of their A330's has been sitting out in Amman for a couple of weeks now?

G-TCXB positioned LGW-AMM in early April and doesn't seem to have operated any flights since. Seems a bit strange as its been half-term holidays here in the UK and as we start to approach the summer season they seem to be one aircraft down?

[Confirmed Must Ride]

Surely they would have correct the destination spelling mistakes by now...

[A330ETOPS]

Does anybody know why one of their A330's has been sitting out in Amman for a couple of weeks now?

G-TCXB positioned LGW-AMM in early April and doesn't seem to have operated any flights since. Seems a bit strange as its been half-term holidays here in the UK and as we start to approach the summer season they seem to be one aircraft down?

There's been A330's going into Amman for maintenance. XB is due back this week

[All names taken]

Hi
Can someone tell me when the Manchester-Antigua season runs from/to for W18. Does it run into April/May 18?
Also does the aircraft used have a premium cabin?
I should also say I've tried looking on the TCX website for the answers but it's not clear.
Thanks in advance.

[janeyTA]

Hi
Can someone tell me when the Manchester-Antigua season runs from/to for W18. Does it run into April/May 18?
Also does the aircraft used have a premium cabin?
I should also say I've tried looking on the TCX website for the answers but it's not clear.
Thanks in advance.

They stop mid March. If they didn't they would be on sale now.

[All names taken]

Thanks.
Pity though, the Antigua season runs through to early May in reality and we all can't find the time to go till April.
Looks like the long drag down to Gatwick then unfortunately.

[CCGE29]

GOMYT is next to go to AMM, will depart Manchester tomorrow morning at 0735. OYVKF will position from MAN-LGW.

GTCXB should be back at Manchester this evening (Should arrive back at 2115 as TCX4986).

[Cazza_fly]

Have TC received their extra 757-300,s from Condor? Are the 753 fleet fitted with new cabin interiors yet?

All TCX/DE 753s have the new Acro seating fitted. The A321s were fitted with the Recaro seats. There are subtle differences in terms of seat colour on some aircraft.

[Boeing_James]

If OY-VKF is going to be operating out of LGW/MAN or GLA on behalf of Thomas Cook UK so we know if it has had the same cabin refit in line with XB/XC? I.E new style seats and same IFE?

[CCGE29]

Y+49 Y273

GMDBD
GMLJL
GCHTZ
GOMYT
GTCXB
GTCXC
OYVKF

Y311
GVYGM

Y388

OYVKG

Not 100% sure about VYGK.

GVYGM is due to operate short haul flights from MAN.

GVYGK/OYVKG will be based at STN/GLA.

[janeyTA]

VYGM is operating to MCO. Y311
VYGK is Y320.

The 3 ex MYTs JL/YT/BD are Y+49 Y273. I think XB is as well. XC and TZ are slightly less in Y.

[Mazar]

Where does TCX stand with their ground handling contract at MAN? Wont they cease the contract in April 2018? Cant see them staying given Aviators UK ops situation.

[CCGE29]

It's now a separate arm - Aviator Nordic. MAN was one of the profitable stations, LGW wasn't after they took all of Swissport's work there.


The way they handle the bags at MAN has a lot to be desired though. I have never seen a handling agent drop so many bags. (Luggage trolleys do not have sides or in some cases a roof so the bags fall off as soon as they move). I've never seen so much stupidity from a ground handler.

[d4ky]

I'm sure I saw Thomas Cook were planning to fly Manchester to Malaga from summer 17. Has this now been cancelled?

[sunshine79]

I think they were originally going to use easyJet but all the flight seem to be on Monarch. They wouldn't be able to fully utilise their own aircraft as they are having to build up their relationships again with hoteliers after they dropped the programme, just like Costa Blanca. Hoteliers will be reluctant to to give them too many rooms in case they drop out like they did a few years ago.

[d4ky]

I think they were originally going to use easyJet but all the flight seem to be on Monarch. They wouldn't be able to fully utilise their own aircraft as they are having to build up their relationships again with hoteliers after they dropped the programme, just like Costa Blanca. Hoteliers will be reluctant to to give them too many rooms in case they drop out like they did a few years ago.

Yes but didn't they timetable to fly TCX/MT aircraft to Malaga for 2017? I'm sure it was reported somewhere but they must have then dropped it again?

[Cazza_fly]

Yes but didn't they timetable to fly TCX/MT aircraft to Malaga for 2017? I'm sure it was reported somewhere but they must have then dropped it again?

You are correct. They were due to operate their own metal to AGP this summer. However the route has been dropped, many reporting it as the Jet2 effect... too much capacity. Already booked passengers now seem to be flying with Monarch instead.

[d4ky]

You are correct. They were due to operate their own metal to AGP this summer. However the route has been dropped, many reporting it as the Jet2 effect... too much capacity. Already booked passengers now seem to be flying with Monarch instead.

I think its obvious they regret dropping it (hence wanting to start again 2017)

Malaga is one of the most popular summer destinations from the UK in the last few years

[MKY661]

I find it Bizarre how Thomas Cook (as well as other companies) don't serve Malaga, but do serve Pretty Much the rest the Sun destinations in Spain, Turkey & Greece. Is there something that these companies don't like about it?

[d4ky]

There must have been a reason they left Malaga (was it 2012)? Although back then it wasn't the most popular of destinations. It's grown massively over the last three or four years with Marbella and other resorts seeing a huge rise in tourism and popularity. The flight market was and still is saturated to Malaga and perhaps TCX/MT wanted to utilise aircraft elsewhere. With the decrease in popularity to North African resorts (obvious reasons) I think they decided to try Malaga again for 2017 however like a previous poster has said, there are now so many airlines that fly there that it probably wasn't viable.

Palma is another example of more or less every U.K. Airport serving it, with an array of different airlines

[VickersVicount]

A nice little addition Ex MAN S18
Thomas Cook UK adds Manchester ? Santa Clara from May 2018 :: Routesonline (http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/272845/thomas-cook-uk-adds-manchester-santa-clara-from-may-2018/)

[samj]

Are the B763's not operating out of Manchester anymore? I see there all pretty much working for Condor. Also, any chance of seeing A332 on short haul this Summer?

[MKY661]

Are the B763's not operating out of Manchester anymore? I see there all pretty much working for Condor. Also, any chance of seeing A332 on short haul this Summer?

One left the Fleet last Year and the other 2 are operating for Condor from now on until they leave next year (Source: Jethro).

[peterg28]

We're booking flights MAN-JFK for early June 2018 and are being told on the booking page that it will be operated by an Air Tanker. I was under the impression the AT lease was only until early 2018? If the lease is extended will we likely be on the refurbished aircraft?

[BFS BHD]

Anyone know whats wrong with G-TCDF A321 in Reus?
The TCX1603 service that was due into BFS at 12:40 is now delayed to 01:25 tonight.
Lanzarote service that was due out of BFS at 14:25 is delayed to tomorrow morning at 07:00.

[azz767]

I've just seen photo's of a couple of the LY- registered A321's in full TCX livery which seems strange for a summer lease. Are all the summer leased aircraft going to be painted in full livery or is there a particular reason for these two being exceptions?

[Out Of Trim]

We have 2 Smart Lynx A/C operating for MT at LGW at the moment. 1 A320 and 1 A321.

[LiamNCL]

2 A321s in full livery. The A320s from Smartlynx and Avion are in Hybrid branding

[Jus33]

Noticed that Wamos 747 on MAN-CUN today and Orbest A330 used earlier on in week.
Is there a TCX A330 out of action?

Ta

[sunshine79]

Yeah, a TCX A33 has gone tech and Wamos has been covering for a few days. That's all I know at the moment

[Travel Agent]

Anyone know whats going on with G-OMYT, looks like its been out of service for a while according to FR24?

[Mr A Tis]

Last I heard it was damaged by a ground handling incident in Punta Cana - that was maybe 10 days ago- Maybe it is still there or ferried somewhere for repairs.

[Ipaq]

It's back in the Hangar at Manchester with serious structural damage - will be off line for a while yet

[VickersVicount]

thats a nightmare with high season about to start, im guessing theres not too much slack in the A330 timetable. Wonder if Air Tanker could provide a Air Force grey one for a short spell!

[rutankrd]

thats a nightmare with high season about to start, im guessing theres not too much slack in the A330 timetable. Wonder if Air Tanker could provide a Air Force grey one for a short spell!

Almost certainly not as they have only one demilitarised frame left and thats' used for the Cyprus, Poland, Kenya, Canada and Falklands semi schedules from Brize.

All the other frames are now with the RAF as tankers and Mrs May's shuttle

There are large aircraft available from Malta on short notice if needs be

[Richard Taylor]

Just give them Maybot's shuttle... they way she's going she won't need it much longer anyways...................... :E

[LGS6753]

Thomas Cook plane makes emergency landing at Manchester airport with part of wing missing (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/26/thomas-cook-plane-pictured-part-wing-missing-emergency-landing/?WT.mc_id=e_DM478889&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_FAM_New_AEM_Recipient&utm_source=email&utm_medium=Edi_FAM_New_AEM_Recipient_2017_06_27&utm_campaign=DM478889)

[Off Stand]

Thomas Cook plane makes emergency landing at Manchester airport with part of wing missing (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/26/thomas-cook-plane-pictured-part-wing-missing-emergency-landing/?WT.mc_id=e_DM478889&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_FAM_New_AEM_Recipient&utm_source=email&utm_medium=Edi_FAM_New_AEM_Recipient_2017_06_27&utm_campaign=DM478889)

Winglet missing for 2-3 weeks, due to an encounter with a hangar door. Covered up with speed tape for every sector since. Reason for the return was low oil on engine no 1.

[116d]

Following on from the news in the MAN thread about Thomas Cook launching MAN-SEA for next summer, will there be more A330's acquired, leases extended on planes such as the Air Tanker examples or using existing assets by stopping things like using A330's on short-haul turns?

[goldeneye]

The Seattle flight is down to be operated by Air Tanker.

[LAX_LHR]

It looks like 7 MAN based A330 next summer at the very least, with 8 required on a Thursday and Sunday at this stage, press release for the Seattle flight mentions MAN will be 8 based A330 next summer.

There is also gaps on Mon/Wed which would easily fit in the hotly rumoured Tampa and even the other highly rumoured San Diego should TCX feel brave and add multiple routes.

[7griffinjack]

So Air Berlin has filed for bankruptcy and has 17 A330-200 aircraft in its fleet. Could this be a perfect opportunity for TCX to grab some much needed aircraft to fulfill its long haul ambitions?

[Flightrider]

Jethros is suggesting a big fleet swap this winter between TC and Condor with all 757-300s going to Condor this winter, A321s coming the other way and 767s finally being retired - guess the onerous tax leases from Airtours days must finally be over? Is this "new news" or was this big switch always the plan?

[Cazza_fly]

Jethros is suggesting a big fleet swap this winter between TC and Condor with all 757-300s going to Condor this winter, A321s coming the other way and 767s finally being retired - guess the onerous tax leases from Airtours days must finally be over? Is this "new news" or was this big switch always the plan?

It was always the plan. The 753s will be back.

[22/04]

Has it been reported here that Thomas Cook will no longer have bases at Belfast and Stansted next summer?

[pamann]

Has it been reported here that Thomas Cook will no longer have bases at Belfast and Stansted next summer?

Interesting news if true.

[inOban]

The Jet2 effect?

[southside bobby]

@ the mo I am counting bout 35 short haul departures PW on an up to date TCX site for 2018...

[SFCC]

Not quite true ref STN, BFS and EMA.
Still be TCX bases as such, but flown with ACMI aeroplanes therefore not TCX pilot bases.

[southside bobby]

ACMI makes sense of the info out there thanks...TCX should be able to co-exist with an expanding EXS @ STN...they achieve it @ MAN & BHX for example, capacity might be downgraded however @ STN if the ACMI a/c were to be A320 instead of the A321...I seemed to note no mention of LTN for 2018...The TCX long haul appears to be 6 PW ex STN,most probably in the main peak period..

[LiamNCL]

EMA,STN & BFS using leased aircraft next year?

[Letsflycwl]

Will we be seeing an A321 back at CWL for Summer 2018 or are they sticking with the leased A320 ? Anyone know ?

[LiamNCL]

Bit of a shift around i would hazard a guess that the current yearly leased aircraft will be re-allocated next summer to the bases mentioned above with the A321 going the opposite way to BHX/CWL/LGW/NCL ? Five B753 going to condor with Six A321 incomming.

[AIRPORT66]

Will the leased aircraft be based in Belfast permanently.or is this just a short term thing and other bases get them as well.

[Bernoulli]

The plan from our so-called 'Managers' is to have based at BFS, EMA and STN aircraft owned and operated by third party operators from eastern Europe. They'll have TCX markings and TCX Cabin Crew but they won't belong to Thomas Cook. The airframes (all quite old) and the pilots are nothing to do with the UK airline.

What you see when you book a holiday is not what you'll get.

Caveat emptor.

During the winter season I believe the plan is to run the fairly light programmes out of Aldergrove, Castle Donington and Stansted with W patterns from other UK bases. But, of course, the very last people to know will be the Pilots affected.

:*

[22/04]

Not really true. Without revealing too much my info was from a TCX pilot- he didn't mention the third party flying but may not have known

[SWBKCB]

What you see when you book a holiday is not what you'll get.

Thought the booking had to show the airline operating, so you should know whether Thomas Cook a/c or leased in (or one of the many another operators carrying Thomas Cook holiday passengers)

[bycrewlgw]

Thought the booking had to show the airline operating, so you should know whether Thomas Cook a/c or leased in (or one of the many another operators carrying Thomas Cook holiday passengers)

You are correct. It is a legal obligation to show the operating airline. If it changes after booking you have to be informed.

[WHBM]

You are correct. It is a legal obligation to show the operating airline. If it changes after booking you have to be informed.
Indeed. Though something like ACFT OP BY 6Y on the booking confirmation at the bottom of page 13 seems enough.

[Vokes55]

Tunisia flights and holidays back on sale today. Three times a week from February, seven per week in the Summer.

A risk, but I'm sure there will be plenty of takers if the price is right. Good news for the tour operators who have suffered majorly from Tunisia, Egypt and Turkey's issues. These destinations offer far better margins, with much less Loco competition. Hope it works out.

[j636]

Pilot strike planned on 8 September over a big pay rise of around 10,000 if the media is to be believed.

Thomas Cook Airlines pilots to strike on September 8th over pay dispute | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/thomas-cook-strike-airline-pilots-pay-dispute-september-8-balpa-a7905986.html)

[HH6702]

Which airports are on sale for Tunisia ?

[LiamNCL]

Do we know for certain where the leased aircraft will be next year yet ?

[LBIA]

Which airports are on sale for Tunisia ?

Thomas Cook have the following services available to book to Tunisia from UK
https://www.thomascook.com/holidays/tunisia/


From February 2018 = Winter Schedule
Birmingham = 1x weekly, Tuesday
London Gatwick = 1x weekly, Wednesday
Manchester = 1x weekly, Tuesday

From May 2018 - Summer Schedule
Birmingham = 1x weekly, Tuesday
Glasgow = 1x weekly, Tuesday
London Gatwick = 2x weekly, Wednesday & Sunday
Manchester = 2x weekly, Tuesday & Friday
Newcastle = 1x weekly, Tuesday

[Tigger4Me]

Now we have the threat of a strike by TC pilots. What are the chances of that coming off I wonder.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Can't remember last time there was a strike by Pilots.
Problem is they won't get much sympathy from the travelling public, 1-2% per cent is the norm for the lucky ones there's plenty of readers who can't relate to pay rises in the public service, schools etc let alone better holiday perks.
Having worked for xx airlines and been on the rock n roll 3 times i take what i get and happy that I get my pay cheque

[Tigger4Me]

Can't remember last time there was a strike by Pilots.
Problem is they won't get much sympathy from the travelling public, 1-2% per cent is the norm for the lucky ones there's plenty of readers who can't relate to pay rises in the public service, schools etc let alone better holiday perks.
Having worked for xx airlines and been on the rock n roll 3 times i take what i get and happy that I get my pay cheque

It was reported that they have been offered 1.5% in addition to their automatic annual rise of 1.8% but are demanding 10.7%!

No sympathy here, that's for sure.

[Council Van]

No sympathy from the ACMI's who will happily hoover up all the opportunities they can in the UK.

Their arrival is what I would be wanting to strike about

[Slow Progress]

All the strike will do is damage public perception and cost more money in recovering the planned flying programme.

The strike will achieve nothing positive.

[canberra97]

Strikes rarely achieve anything positive but if that's what is needed by the employees to achieve what they want so be it as it would only be an advantage to them to make the management take their demands more seriously.

[beardy]

automatic annual rise of 1.8%

Dream on, that doesn't exist for everyone and its not a pay rise.

All the strike will do is damage public perception and cost more money in recovering the planned flying programme.

Absolutely correct

The strike will achieve nothing positive

OH not quite, a reality check for the managers is quite positive. Hubris arises from unchecked achievement.

[SFCC]

I surmise you are hinting at one particular (universally despised) manager:}

[Mr A Tis]

Look like strike goes ahead as TCX loses a court challenge.
https://www.balpa.org/Media-Centre/Press-Releases/Thomas-Cook-pilot-strike-to-go-ahead-as-High-Court

[scousechris]

Look like strike goes ahead as TCX loses a court challenge.
https://www.balpa.org/Media-Centre/Press-Releases/Thomas-Cook-pilot-strike-to-go-ahead-as-High-Court

Airline can't afford BALPA pay demand......Airline loses more money for strike......airline cuts jobs....Airline loses aircraft.....Airline loses more jobs= no airline = no pay increase = NO JOB!

I do not doubt that in past few years we have all made sacrifices working for this Airline, and flightdeck deserve an increase along with the rest of us. But to demand such an increase and then risk the livelihood of the rest of the staff within the airline by striking, I feel you are being far to selfish.

We would all love what you are asking for but come on!

[Burpbot]

Tcx fair play for standing your ground but let the world know!!! Tcx Facebook page does not show one comment of strike! The reasons you strike may be right or wrong, but the world has no idea, so why bother striking???? Shout out to the world! We support you!

[beardy]

Your first premise Airline can't afford BALPA pay demand. is incorrect hence the subsequent logic doesn't add up.

[ATNotts]

If these stinking individuals don't like their pay and conditions then perhaps they should apply to Ryanair.

I'm sure MO'L would gladly offer them 1.8% annual increment plus pay rises (not)!

I'm frankly surprised that such annual increments exist anywhere these days, away from public sector frivolous organisation like the civil service and NHS.

[billykim]

If these stinking individuals don't like their pay and conditions then perhaps they should apply to Ryanair.

I'm sure MO'L would gladly offer them 1.8% annual increment plus pay rises (not)!

I'm frankly surprised that such annual increments exist anywhere these days, away from public sector frivolous organisation like the civil service and NHS.



Oh, do trot along, back to the brexit thread...

[HH6702]

The railway is the same 3% more years

[Cazalet33]

It is being reported that the dinosaur union demanded a payrise of 10.7%!

If true, then the dinosaurs can expect little sympathy from customers or shareholders, and not a lot of sympathy from other employees of the company.

The 1970s are over, boys. It's a whole new world now. Get over it.

The dinosaurs need to sit down and thrash out a sensible compromise which gives the crews a payrise somewhere between the CPI and the now discredited and quite obsolete RPI. Losses incurred by Company as a result of today's strike will require to be removed from the pay pot.

[AirportPlanner1]

If these stinking individuals don't like their pay and conditions then perhaps they should apply to Ryanair.

I'm sure MO'L would gladly offer them 1.8% annual increment plus pay rises (not)!

I'm frankly surprised that such annual increments exist anywhere these days, away from public sector frivolous organisation like the civil service and NHS.

It's not really helpful to your argument when you bash an unrelated third party. NHS and other public sector body increments aren't limitless, depending on your role there may only be two or three available to you amounting to a few hundred. There are many that get no increments at all.

[thetimesreader84]

Yes, god forbid they try to make a stand against year on year real terms pay cuts, base outsourcing and other issues, set against a management cadre who do quite well for themselves regardless of performance. The absolute cheek!

Perhaps if the RYR pilots could form a union, then they might be more like MO'Ls inspiration Southwest, a company many aspire to join, and are happy to work for, rather than the armchair pundit's go-to company of choice to use as a stick to beat upstart pilots over the head with. "What, you want a uniform issued by the company? You'll want the moon on a stick next! Try working for RYR, see how far that attitude gets you..."

The "crab bucket" mentality in this country is shocking. It's why the rest of Europe outperforms us in many areas and for some reason since the Brexit vote last year, it's only got worse.

Good Luck Tommy C crew. Stand firm.

[inOban]

I read a feature somewhere that pilot was one of the few careers whose earnings had kept pace with inflation, although they were working harder. It may be that TC salaries have fallen behind, don't know.
One thing is certain. The bosses write their own paychecks.

[Cazalet33]

The bosses write their own paychecks.

Some of us gobby shareholders are making a stand against some of the worst excesses of that ****, but that's actually a quite separate issue.

Two wrongs don't make right though. Deliberately inconveniencing customers, colleagues and shareholders in a non-monopoly situation seldom ends well, even for the blackmailers who threaten strikes.

In the spirit of the 1970s the NUM thought that their monopoly situation meant that they could dictate terms to the shareholders and customers. That union is somewhat less powerful nowadays, thank gawd.

Tommy Cook is actually a good company and I'd hate to see it dragged under by blackmailers who apparently (if the 10.7% rise demand is true, which it may not be) see no limits to their power or to their ability to extort.

A much better way forward would be for both sides to negotiate a reasonable settlement somewhere between the CPI and RPI levels, preferably fixed for several years so that the business planners can plan the business. Extra perqs, such as freebie upgrades to unsold Y class seats, should be regarded as an add-on extra, not only for flight crew but also for all deadheading aircrew.

[inOban]

I was suggesting that it was possible that TC salaries have fallen behind the industry norm at a time when traffic has been growing fast. It will be very expensive for management if pilots leave for better conditions elsewhere.

[Cazalet33]

It will be very expensive for management if pilots leave for better conditions elsewhere.

That would be very expensive for management indeed. It would cost them their jobs.

Don't expect a mass exodus to the Peaty Porter brand though; nor to the unmentionable airline based beside the bit of water between Arabia and Persia; nor to the not particularly pacific outfit adjacent to a notably smelly harbour in far away Cathay.

Not going to happen -- unless the silly buggers of the dinosaur union break the Company through a combination of stupidity and malice in the way that the NUM did.

[Fletch]

A much better way forward would be for both sides to negotiate a reasonable settlement somewhere between the CPI and RPI levels, preferably fixed for several years so that the business planners can plan the business.

Yeah but that doesn't appear to be what the management are offering? As an outsider looking in I'd say that's what the union are asking for, some of which being applied retrospectively. I'd say if you get a turnout of 88%, and 91% of them vote in favour of strike action you have a pretty pi55ed off workforce. Also, i can't imagine there would be people who care more about the company than the folk on the line, many of who will hope to spend their entire working career at the airline. Shareholders tend to be far more transient and more interested in making short term financial gains.
More airlines have failed as a result of mismanagement than renumerating their workforce reasonably.

[beardy]

The pay rise each year for many many years has been less than CPI & RPI, this has equated to an annual decrease in buying power, effectively a pay cut. The company has done very well out of this. Now is the time to restore purchasing power, the company is doing well, profits are up. This is why the percentage looks askew, but it is justified.

The managers have shown no restraint in their awards to themselves for salary and performance. If anyone in this scenario is to be labelled dinosaurs it is the management who have shown little flexibility nor imagination and have imposed draconian conditions to each pay round.

[Cazalet33]

I'd say if you get a turnout of 88%, and 91% of them vote in favour of strike action you have a pretty pi55ed off workforce.

Your arithmetic might impress if it correctly presumed that the dinosaur union has a monopoly of the workforce.

It does not.

The old days of the NUM et al are long gone. Those dinosaurs died out. They self-destructed, actually.

[SWBKCB]

Those dinosaurs died out. They self-destructed, actually.

Sadly the dinosaurs running many large organisations are still riding the gravy train.

[beardy]

Your arithmetic might impress if it correctly presumed that the dinosaur union has a monopoly of the workforce.

Quite right, simply a significant majority, not a monopoly. Those without will profit by the actions of within those who see solidarity as a way of not being screwed over by neanderthal brutality.