Euromanx- 2

[red17]

The figures mentioned were only ones that have been rumoured so obviously they may not be correct. If you think about the disaster of a season they had with the RJ's Dorniers etc then it would seem possible for them to have been in that sort of trouble. The chances are that now after several years of consolidation they are financially a much stronger airline. Because of this a recall of the loans may not be the end of the world for them. Its mentioned in previous posts that there is a lack of expansion. It is not always the only measure of sucess. Consolidating what they are good at would seem key to the future of EuroManx. Like Manx2 had the expansion onto Stansted which didn't work so they concentrated on Belfast and now have a massive part of the market!

:ok:

[Hansol]

I like the airline but I would be suprised if they have ever made money, even on the back of a fag packet it doesn't add up. There may be be more problems coming from the Austrian CAA once they get wind of possible financial problems.

[red17]

what sort of problems would that cause from the Austrian CAA? I thought they were more relaxed than the English CAA

[IOMspotter]

april iom pax stats have now been posted at last on http://www.gov.im/airport/news/viewnews.gov?page=/lib/news/airport/monthlyairtraffi.xml

They don't make good reading. The NW market crashed by about 10% and Euros were well down on every route. Even with the FlyBe disruptions it looks like even their MAN numbers must have dropped and VLM are now doing well on LCY.

[EMX81L]

As mentioned in the report, alot of the drops on manchester and liverpool were due to the 5 days off fog, which very much disrupted operations, which is the main reason why EMX were down this month. Plus, while REJ was on maintainence, EMX nearly had every single ATR72 on the AerArann alphabet in april, as the replacements Aer Arann sent went tech, which was another factor

It doesn't make bad reading to be honest as BE and EMX have the biggest shares 36 and 34% respectively. On all of the LCY flights whether it be by EMX or VLM, pax numbers are very similar on each flight, plus VLM have put in another rotation on a sunday

[Hansol]

Whatever the reason for the numbers the pax were not carried and the Redtails will have had a poor month. May/June will be better with TT but the overall decline in pax numbers continues.

[part69]

Hey guys

San expiry

Talking to some friends there every staff member is very dissapointed at EuroManx with lack of activity. There has been no communication from management at all over the last few months.

As for the money issues, no one knows just yet its just speculation. I think the best thing for EM would be to merge with another company or sell up, its evident by lack of expansion they no longer have any financial backing.

[Hansol]

Is there anything to sell or merge? If the aircraft are owned by the company presumably they are financed, the company rents its head office, and the IOM is open skys so the routes have little or no value. I am suprised there has been no response from local press or polititions to the Sunday Telegraph article. There's a rabbit coming out of a hat somwhere, I wonder if the government are putting their hands in their pockets, or perhaps Flybe or Aer Arann are dealing? Or perhaps everything is rosy and I am a scare mongerer with nothing better to do, I hope so:uhoh:

[IOMspotter]

Well I assume Aer Arran would hapily take on LPL as it seems they operate it all the time anyway. They've operated the route before, own the aircraft and crews know the ropes.

VLM would step up frequency on LCY as they have an aircraft here most of the day, FlyBe could take on MAN and Manx2 BHD.

Don't think our Government can get involved financially - everyone would want a hand out.

[fredtheanorak]

last months IOM goverment newsleter was talking about another $15m of liability.............. for two old aircraft................

http://www.gov.im/lib/docs/iomfinance/newsletter/iomfinancenewsletterfeb07.pdf

[Yak97]

Seems a little steep, especially as they would have been paying lease charges for the last couple of years?

[Hansol]

7.5m pounds for 2, probably not bad in the current market.

[IOMspotter]

Rumors in the Railway at dinnertime that theres going to be a very top level resignation announced by Euros tomorrow.anyone herd anything:confused:

Is it to do with the Telegraph loans story?

[red17]

Ok so EuroManx sign a 15million USD deal for the dash's. It shows two things. One is that someone has agreed to lend them the money and secondly for that to happen it would mean that their debt is at worst manageable. So that would suggest that whatever has happened at HBOS is not a big deal for EuroManx. Also all the talk of mergers, why would anybody be interested in merging?? it seems that recent developments have been a long time coming, consolidation in the market has been needed and now with FlyBe and EuroManx almost equal in market share, the smaller carriers like Manx2 and Eastern can fill in the gaps!

[Hansol]

If there is a resignation in my opion it is completly unjust, the financing of the airline was always in the hands of its directors who have nothing to do with the day to day running of the business. I hope the take their share of any pain being handed out.

[red17]

Hansol what pain are you referring to? So far there has been no hard evidence to base any of these rumours. All that is confirmed is HBOS have dismissed somebody that leant the money to an airline that is 99% certain to be EuroManx. I there is a dismissal then that would be a sign that there may be problems. What source are you basing the idea of the dismissal on??

[Hansol]

Red, I think the scale of unsecured lending to EM is very large, if that is pulled away the future is going to be challenging. Why would another bank lend, what security could be given, if HBOS want their millions back who is going to pay.

I think it was IOMSpotter that mentioned resignation not me.

[red17]

My Post was just in general to both IOMspotter and Hansol. My point is just that if the problems are as bad as some of this talk makes it sound then how have EuroManx obtained finance for the Dash's? A bank/investor is not going to give finance to a company with crippling debt's!:eek: Therefore it would suggest that EuroManx are NOT in such bad shape.
Only a suggestion.

UNLESS

The person rom HBOS has found a place in another bank!!:hmm:

[Hansol]

or whoever lent on the Dash's had no idea of the earlier borrowings.

Anyway we shouldn't speculate I am sure JS and the team there will be doing all they can to keep the airline going.

[red17]

The loan cannot be pulled straight away even if there was problems, there will be contracts. And nobody would lend 15 million USD without taking a peek at the accounts!! :eek:

This is out of proportion as EuroManx are showing no signs of problems.

[The Shop Floor]

Was told today as I passed through a beautifully sunny Isle of Man that one of the senior managers at EM has left to take a similar position with Flybe - any truth in this?.

[Hansol]

Not heard anything about a senior guy leaving.

[EasyBeat]

Did you go through the terminal??

Some really big wooden spoons use the terminal , anything to give Em a bad name.

I stopped holding my breath a long time ago

EasyB

[fragul]

Very interesting, I'd heard the same story about a Seanior figure in Em jumping ship too......

[Hansol]

The only guy that might be of interest to Flybe I think would be the head of Eng, he at least has lots of Dash experience.

[EasyBeat]

Not to mention knowlege of the EMB family...

[Grand yahoo]

and the RJ / 146, seems petty good at disposal, good guy to work for and escaped from the BACX mess before it went Bacon.

[IOMspotter]

I hear Euros had a good month on MAN in May. Have the May passenger share figures come out yet?

[Evileyes]

Several recent posts moved here: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=281581

[Haven't a clue]

Just booked another IOM/LCY return...

I see the credit card surcharge has now doubled to £6 and the minimum charge for changing a booking has doubled to £20:confused:

Under financial pressure? Copying the competition's charges?

All I know is this attack on my wallet means I shall now look for the lowest fare every time. The quality of service arguement has gone (sorry Melissa - you were an inspiration!)

So IOM/London has two players competing in the lowcost/small service arena. I remain jealous of our Jersey chums who still enjoy competition and choice between low cost and full service.

[IOMspotter]

I'm told their bookings the last two weeks have been well down so presumably these increases are to try and regain lost revenue from ancilliary charges. Still not as expensive as FlyBe but will they start charging for bags next same as FlyBe and Manx2?:confused:

[IOMspotter]

I'm told Flight Support has been sold to the buyout guys "AB" for £1.00 plus they took on some of the FS/Euromanx debt. Any more info anyone?:cool:

[Hansol]

Now that would make sense and give the EM backers a way out from the airlines debt. Its a pity though FS is a good company but I suppose the owners will do what they have to do.

[TechProblem]

This is true, but FS had no debt, with having the mutli million pound contract in Manchester with FlyBe.

AB im told are a Big Cleaning company based at LGW. FS dont have this to offer at any station so a good move for both company's.

[red17]

FS make money its known. Flight Support is a healthy growing company. Airbase as far as i am aware do not own the shareholding directly. A person who owns 50% of airbase UK has purchased the former EuroManx shares in FS. Because of this he is now a substantial shareholder in both. I stand to be corrected though!! :eek: Also the rumours that have been doing the rounds at IOM of EuroManx changing handling agents are unfounded I have it on good authority that they have no wish to change. Besides both EM and FS are locked into a longterm contract!!:ok:probably If anything more contracts coming the way of FS than leaving FS.

[Haven't a clue]

What's the reason for the EMX LCY cancellations yesterday and this morning? Broken airframe, or shortage of crew?

[farmstrip]

Was on the Rock yesterday and saw just one EMX dash 8 with the ex-Air Wales ATR42 G-CDFF (which also wears Flightline and Aurigny stickers) subbing for the other.

OE-HBC took off at l;unchtime and didn't return in time for the LCY. The ATR (due to do a MAN) then fell ill and both flights were canx

[fragul]

Sold to who??

[atprider]

The Airsouthwest connection is interesting given that they have a Dash 8 operating for flybe on the rock at the moment....:confused:

[Manxman11]

London City fares getting very expensive - just booked two day returns for Wednesday (yes I know its very short notice but still!!!) for £790:eek::eek:

[lhuingysaer]

Have you considered flying VLM? I know the flight times are not as good but they are like half the price and the service is a million times better.

RJ

[spanishflea]

No good for a daytrip though.

By paying the fare you are proving the demand is there at that price point, I assume you are not the only one willing to pay for the massive convenience of a day return, as well as using LCY.

A nice little earner until VLM up their game and bring some more competition...

[veeonerotate]

more fool you for paying £790.

[Chica]

Same daytrip to LGW would be £324 in total. For the price difference you could get a chauffeur driven car to and from your destination in London and lunch at the Ritz. You must really dislike either FlyBe or Gatwick.

[spanishflea]

FlyBe is £479 now, so up a bit from the figure of £324.

Having said that the Euromanx price is now an eyewatering £860 for 2 people travelling this Wednesday! :eek:

[flightlevel26]

I hear that Manx2 have aquired the EuroManx business for £1, can anyone confirm this?

[IOMspotter]

I'm told Malcolm Naylor was on the island doing a report and due diligence for the buyer. Was told it was a local company so that would fit in.:rolleyes:

[flightlevel26]

The company must have been in big financial trouble to sell for £1

[Manxman11]

Hate both. The few times I have tried to use FlyBe for business they have been nothing short of a disaster - and some of that has been due to the third world hole that is Gatwick South Terminal.

LCY to my London office - 25 mins. The additional time I save in the commute pays for the additional cost alone. Then factor in LCY being a great airport (though crowded) to commute through and its a winner as far as I'm concerned.

I do agree with the other poster though - if VLM offered flights which enabled a day trip they would have my business without any question.

[This is a crisis]

This just off the Energy FM News website:
"Euromanx buyout
It's been confirmed EuroManx's parent company has been subject to a management buyout.
Euromanx was one of several companies that came under the umbrella of Corporate Jet Services.
The new organisation is called Quest Aviation Services. No press statement has yet been made.
The Department of Transport says it's waiting to discuss the implications of the buyout with the company.
The Commercial Director of EuroManx Seamus Burne resigned last week"

[manx crab]

So does this mean that EMX has been sold or the parent company has just changed names.

I presume some posts from today have been deleted/moved. If not who was fragul asking:)

[IOMspotter]

I suspect this is the tip of the iceberg. No doubt the full story of the MBO and top level departures will materialise. They're obviously related as no doubt is the bank calling the shots.

[red17]

Don't believe all the bad news rumours, just as flybe are getting to some sense of regular routine doesn't mean it is time to have a go at EuroManx. The word from the inside is consolidation, development and possibly new routes. But the key thing to come that the Islands aviation scene needs is STABILITY

[IOMspotter]

Agree totally with that but lifes not too stable in a company when the sales and marketing director walks out :{ Anyone know why??:confused:

[red17]

From what i can gather it was a conflict of interests possibly or just a clash of ideas, EuroManx are not in as badder position as people make out

[austrian71]

...hmmm, I heard different stories from the emx crews, the ship is slowly but surely sinking, first went the marketing guy, next some pilots, ......

[IOMspotter]

3 rotations today canx already and its not yet 2pm!

[flightlevel26]

I hear on Manx Radio that Austro-Manx are outsourcing ticket desk at Ronaldsway and Reservations Centre. All staff involved to be made redundant from middle November.

It's the beginning of the end it sounds like - abandon ship while you can my fellow colleagues!

[IOMspotter]

Just heard that Euromanx are chopping head office. seams they are getting Flight Support to do ticket desk and outsorcing reservations again. Lets hope they keep it on the island so everyone gets a job with whoever the new supplier is.

[red17]

I can't see how outsourcing of ticket desk will be an issue. Flight Support will most likely require additional personnell to man the desk and they also provide a fantastic service for FlyBe already, everyone wins

[IOMspotter]

I agree that outsourcing ticket desk is a sensible move. :DCan't think why wasn't done before as it's the way to go. Heard Manx radio tonight tho and the story there doesnt tie in with what Res staff were told today. Girls in Res think they're being "Outsourced" next month but not to Flight support. Someone's tellin porkies..:=

[red17]

Well there may be a seperate plan between Res and ticket desk. The call centre aspect of it could easily be outsourced off the airport, that would not be an issue, but surely EuroManx will want to maintain a front of house presence in IOM? who else could handle the ticket desk in IOM? the only options would seem to be flight support or manx regional... the latter would present some issues.. such as contracts. as they are tied to flight support for a good deal of time yet I cannot see manx regional getting involved.

so whats the story???

[Dash-7 lover]

Just had a one of those random faxes from a company called AMS Aircraft LTD advising 3 a/c for sale OE-HBB and OE-HBC 2 x Dash-8's and a Dornier 328 Jet G-CJAB - all available from April 2008. The aircraft are being offered seperately for sale 'as is where is' condition ex uk??

Good just mean that Euromanx is up for a fleet renewal?

Confused.

[iom]

There appears to be a number of wierd and creative rumours about EuroManx of late. As I undertsand it and having spoken to some very senior people around the traps, I suggest the following is more factual:
1. Ticket desk & reservations center:
The ticket desk is being outsourced to Flight Support (their handling agent) and the reservations center is remaining in-house. Makes total sence to me.
2. Cancelled flights on 21st October:
A total of 3 flights were cancelled on Sunday the 21st of October because of a tech aircraft. It happens.
3. The head of sales walks out:
Not true. he resigned sometime agio for "greener pastures".
4. Sale of Dash8 aircraft:
EMX are just considering their options including a single Dash8 type i.e.: all 200's, 300's or 400's instead of the 200/300 combination.
5. New routes:
After a period of consilidation and stability EMX are now looking very intensly at a couple of new routes and I beleive one of them is a European destination from the IOM. They would not elabotrate further but apparently it is a very real possibility.

[flightlevel26]

well it might be CDG or AMS....The airport have been banging on about that for months.....

Or it may be Luton that will save the day!

[Snappybits]

Is it also a coincidence that the Flybe rumour mill indicates a potential 3rd based Q400 to do IOM/LPL from summer timetable '08!!

[lfc84]

IOM wrote....
3. The head of sales walks out:
Not true. he resigned sometime agio for "greener pastures".

i heard that after the management buyout there was a difference in opionion over the future direction of EMX

[IOMspotter]

the info below is being circulated by a broker to all and sundry - seems genuine.


AMS Aircraft Limited is pleased to offer for sale, as exclusive agent, three aircraft detailed below:
MAIN AIRCRAFT FEATURES
Aircraft
MSN
Reg’n
DOM
TTA/F
TC A/F
Seat Configuration
Current Operator

533
OE-HBC
1999
13,500hrs
17,600
50 pax seats
EuroManx

541
OE-HBB
2000
12,500hrs
16,800
36 pax seats
EuroManx

3200
G-CJAB
2002
1,600 hrs
1,400
15 seat VIP interior
Club328

The three aircraft are offered separately in "as is where is" condition ex United Kingdom and available from April 2008.

[manx crab]

IOMspotter

Could this just be someone mischief making though. There seems too much information in the circular.

I would be surprised if a circular would give the registration and operator otherwise potential purchases could just bypass the agent and deal direct.

[fredtheanorak]

The amsaircraft website certainly exists and looks the reel thing.:}

[manx crab]

True it does exist, but can you find any of the above info on it?.

If it is true and the info has been given out it is a surefire way to see of future bookings even up to Mar 2008

[IOMspotter]

The serial numbers, years of manufacture, Registrations and seat capacitys are correct. Does anyone know if the Total Airframe time & Total Cycles are also correct?:confused::confused:

[HMN851X]

I would say they would not be far off the times given for the Age of the Dash's :)

[dingodiva]

Come on guys, calm down a little. This sale offer amounts to a potential change of aircraft ownership NOT operator. Euromanx lease their aircraft,as many other carriers do, and ownership changes are very common in the industry, with aircraft being bought and sold all the time. Aircraft with leases attached are much more valuable to a new owner in exactly the same way as investment property is with a signed-up tenant. Does life on the rock mean you always have to look on the dark side of life.

[HMN851X]

But then when they sell the aircraft at the end of March, will that be the final cut:confused:
sub lease the Manchester and London City to VLM, Air South West to Liverpool and Manx2 to Belfast.......

[runawayedge]

If they do own them....could it not be a sale and leaseback.....easy way to generate cash!!

[lfc84]

perhaps they will replace them with let 410's. no more £28 tax each way :)

[Tonyq]

I'm sure that if you want to put together a sale/lease back, then you don't advertise the sale element on the open market. The deal would just be done with the lessor, so this looks like a genuine disposal.

I can't imagine VLM wanting to get involved in a head to head with FlyBe on MAN, but given a clear run at LCY, I'd guess they'd do it like a shot, although they'd need to base an a/c in IOM get the business traffic, with all that involves.

Does anyone know how long the wet lease with Aer Arann on LPL has to run, as that must be factor in all this too.

It certainly looks as though Euromanx S08 will look rather different from what we have now.

[EMX81L]

Summer 08 will be very interesting indeed, with everythin that has been said so far. I believe EI-REJ is leased up until 2009 the last i heard anyway. Im sure Flybe will be keeping a close eye on preceedings

[red17]

Ok some of this needs to be cleared up:

Firstly the ticket desk will be run by flight support from Nov 11. Some staff will be retained while others are offered employment elsewhere in EuroManx. The outsourcing is merely a cost saving measure, nothing more nothing less.

BB and BC are both owned by EuroManx outright at present. They were purchased outright a good number of months ago in a £15million deal. There was press coverage of this.

The lease on EI-REJ I believe was renewed in September with RE.

If EuroManx really intend on shutting up shop next year why go to all the trouble of getting the new earlier LCY slot??

As for AirSouthwest it is unlikely we will see them in IOM for some time. The a/c operating for flybe leaves tomorrow. They have no connection with EuroManx except one of their bosses was overseeing the management buyout.


These rumours are not donig any good. Ok yes this is a rumours site but how about just waiting to see what happens. I know for a fact EuroManx are reviewing their fleet after the buy out, just as they reviewed their ticket desk

[manx crab]

Red17 :

Should not take long to review the fleet though:)

I still have doubts about this document as to me it gives too much information.

They may have purchased the slot because it is an asset which can be sold? later if necessary. Also the buyout may not have been on the horizon at the time.

[red17]

Manx Crab the deal has been on the horizon for at least the last four months according to those in the know.

[BlueQM]

Perhaps Euromanx will take advantage of the 27 Q400's from SAS about to enter the market!

[Capt. Horrendous]

I see in Flight International that Club 328 has been sold - will this have any effect on the Euromanx operation ??

[Capt. Horrendous]

I've read it with interest previously, wasn't totally sure that Quest wasn't another 'branch' of Club 328 which is why the question was asked.

[manx crab]

Well looking at the date of the press release on the club328 website, its sale is after the buyout so is by Quest to Plane Chartering Ltd.

So what exactly is left now at the parent company? and how does this stack with the document from AMS Aircraft Ltd.

[Haven't a clue]

Why on earth dont EMX issue a press release and put all this speculation to bed? If it was bad news, they could hide it somewhere on their website (a la competition) and run a competition to see how quickly we could find it.....:}

[IOMspotter]

Im told the whole thing is being pushed by finance men behind the scenes.
3W trying to turn 2 dashesinto cash and Club328 also trying to do same with a Do328. Next stage is a route reorganisation with one being dropped and 1 new one. Who knows what theyll be flying next year.....but Im sure we'll have seen it here at Ronaldsway before........my moneys on Saab 340 or Do328 (or Vickers Vicount:rolleyes:.)

[lfc84]

my money on the following.....

dropped route is belfast......

new route.....amsterdam....

[fredtheanorak]

And my moneys on dry leased Do328s after the dashes have been cashed in to payoff some debt.:p

[Haven't a clue]

Why would anyone think there was demand to Amsterdam

1) A realistic alternative to treking round the M25 to endure the horror that is LHR for those of us connecting to flights far and wide

2) And as that Darling man in No11 has decided that days of arrival and departure in the UK will count towards the 90 days average used to decide whether one is UK resident for tax purposes, avoiding LHR or indeed any UK airport will become more important next year. (I've been looking at DUB, but most connections don't work).

[IOMspotter]

Todays examiner is worth reading. :bored:CEO says about putting your whole fleet up 4 sale 'It's normal business practice for an airline,' he said:uhoh:.

Last man out turn out the lights:{

[manx crab]

It is interesting to note that that there was none of the usual positive fantasy spin in JS's statement in the paper. Presumably it is the banks/accountants that are calling the shots now.

Surely they must have known this sort of news would eventually get out and would have an upbeat answer to give about what would replace the Dash's.

Maybe Aer Arann will operate all their services after April:eek:.

[nospeedrestriction9]

I think the lights are already out..... who wants to tell JS?

[crinkle]

Looks like its on a slow run down to avoid any nastiness with the IOM Gov. I have a friend who works there and she says the Finance Director (a consultant who has been there for a year and a half) is also working notice.

[manx crab]

No doubt we will soon get the usual complaints about "open skies" policy causing all the problems from JS. It has a lot of truth in it, but he was quiet happy to take advantage of it to set up routes.

Perhaps the finance boys have seen that the successful model for the IOM is to run a "Ticket Agency" and charter in aircraft as necessary.

[IOMspotter]

Manx Crab is on the nail:D. Rumour in the Railway is that Head Office building is going next :\as the sell off continues. Once "outsorced" staff have gone the plan is to move whats left back into a leesed office in the airport:eek: No building, no planes, no sales director, no ticket staff.... if they dont tell the staff soon whats happening theyll soon have no nothing as people wont put up with not being told what theyre future is.:uhoh::uhoh:

[TechProblem]

All these rumours been flying around, has anything happen yet?
EMX going to sell there planes, ticket desk, head office.
Ok when? As you all know 3w is a good little airline would be silly to through it away.

[Capt. Horrendous]

TP - they're not rumours, they're events that have been announced by the Company itself.

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/EuroManx-to-close-its-ticket.3413503.jp

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/Euromanx-puts-two-aircraft-up.3430365.jp

What people are wondering (quite rightly) is where it is all leading.

I don't understand how JS still involved with EM ??, I thought he'd relinquished his interests with the recent 'management buyout' ??.

I'm sure someone will be kind enough to explain.

[jordan]

I'm fairly sure that Euromanx lease the aircraft; don't think they own them. It will be the lessor that is putting them up for sale - not Euromanx.

[EMX81L]

EMX bought the two Dash 8s earlier this year for £15m. There was a press release in the local papers if i remember rightly

[red17]

EuroManx are going nowhere except LPL MAN and LCY ok given they won't be in BHD for much longer. Bad day for 3W on LPL today.. anyone know the reason for all the delays?? Then again Manxy 2's GLO went to BRS

[Ian Brooks]

Very foggy in Liverpool until mid afternoon qite a number of flights canx or diverted
Manchester not looking to good tonight
Ian

[jetstreamtechrecords]

Guv'nor was apparentley offered the 2 Dash8's for sale by Swiss broker a week ago. Asking price seems to have halved from £15m to $15m.OOps.. 3 nice J41's is whats needed there. Forget the lowish cost model and fly a business service into LCY and MAN with higher fares and full service = full planes. 7x a day to LPL with full loads = loadsamoney.

[Ian Brooks]

Jetstream 41 on MAN against Dash 8 400 you must be joking, if they did that it would be time to pack up and go home

Ian

[captainyonder]

The Dornier 328 is what is needed, why they got rid of their original ones in the first place is a mystery to me!

[Ian Brooks]

Yes I think your right on that probably just right size aircraft

Ian

[IOMspotter]

and presumably their new owner who also owns club328 knows where to pick up (or lease more likely) three cheap ones. :ooh:Seems the group also holds a lot of 328 spares. Would be a few expensive type ratings needed by crews unless they just go the ACMI route.:hmm:

[MUFC_fan]

I remember when Eastern operated MAN-NWI route before BE announced it. When the dreaded announcement came, Eastern was straight off of the route as they could not compete with the on price and comfort.

If EMZ were to take this route, then that would be what would happen. If the airline reduced there aircraft size, especially on the LCY route, fares will increase dramatically and will give VLM a bigger market share.

Not a good idea.

[manx crab]

IOMspotter

Surely a cheaper option would be to simply replace the 300 series aircraft with another 200. Not as nice for the paying public but accountants do not look or care about that:{

Club 328 has been sold by the new owners to PlaneChartering Ltd so it is doubtful if they have access any more to 328's.

If EMX survive and continue independently then I think it will be what I have said before, the "Ticket Agency" route

[JB007]

As it looks like EMX is about to become a "Paper Airline" would this not be an ideal opportunity for Manx2 to expand or is that too great a risk for them? I guess FlyBe will become the Islands airline...

[IOMspotter]

Looks to me like Manxy2 have there hands full with GLO and extra BHD rotations announced last week which they might struggle to fill anyway :ooh: They've gone very quiet on the PIK plans:uhoh:. Wouldn't want to see a fleet of L410's on MAN:{:{:{

[jetstreamtechrecords]

So, if Euromanx are selling the 2 dashes, Their owners have sold club 328 severing the Do328 connection what's left? ATR's from Aer Arran, SAAB 340's from Germany or J41's from Humberside:oh:

[RE72]

I've heard that RE are to take up the operation of a "more streamlined" EMX once the Dash's have been removed from the fleet.

It will be a "Euromanx by Aer Arann" type set-up.

A refined timetable, new routes and dropping BHD are apparently on the menu.

[manx crab]

If Aer Arann did take over the service then it would make sense to keep their own name out of it as it took a bit of a battering last time due to the dropping of routes etc. Personally I have found then ok to deal with and generally reliable but you know what good moaners we Manx folk are:eek:.

Cannot be much to refine, maybe drop Manchester/BHD and concentrate on LCY and Lpl to start with.

[IOMspotter]

Have just seen the LPL figures for OCTober -awful.:{

Liverpool Euromanx 11,366 13,730 -2,364 -17.2%:\

So, I thought I'd use them going across as theres bound to be lots of cheapies. but what's the cheapest fare in the next two weeks? £56 single.:* No wonder numbers are through the floor. they are killing the route with high prices.:{ MAN £29 FlyBe,:D BLK £39 Manx2:)

[ADC2604]

Hold on - do I see a POSITIVE note about Flybe fare! Blimey....

Will certainly be interesting to see what happens in the long run with Euromanx.

[Tonyq]

Curious that the Airport Director highlights the Euromanx 26% year on year uplift on MAN in her comments, although ignores the overall decline on MAN and the continuing collapse of LPL numbers, which is fares/Steam Packet driven. However a bit more analysis shows that EMX share of MAN has actually fallen from 48% to 44% from Sept to Oct, which suggests that the very agressive FlyBe fares are hurting. LCY and BHD down in terms of share and overall numbers, so no wonder the new owners are trying to drive costs out as a matter of urgency.

[chrism20]

I don't know - there was some good news for her to announce this month.

MAN has performed better than it has done for months and LTN is back.

As Tony said the LPL is fare driven and until thats sorted..........wasn't there a battle for LPL 12-18 months ago with a couple of carriers fighting for the route? Perhaps competition is what is needed on it?

The battle of MAN is now underway and it will be interesting to see what happens here

[STATSMAN]

There were so good loads in from IOM yesterday (yes I know it was friday but I was surprised at the number of Manx residents).

Does any Manx resident know if your goverment help with the cost of ticket to LPL for hospital visit, for example children to Alderhey?

Loads where very low on some flights when there were 3 carriers on the route 3 inbound passenger on an RE.

[Tonyq]

Any patient who is referred to a UK hospital has their transport to that hospital paid for by IOM DHSS. Most such referrals are to hospitals in Merseyside/Wirral and the overall number of such passengers apparently runs into several thousand each year. I'd imagine that Euromanx have most of this business via LPL.

Family members also get some travel too, but it was reported earlier this year that this was being reduced significantly after it transpired the DHSS's own guidance on eligibility wasn't being adhered to correctly.

[STATSMAN]

Thanks for the reply tony, usually see mum dad & child on Alderhey visits. This must be a good source of income to 3W, but would not pay the HBOS debt.

[Yak97]

Didn't the IOM DHSS have a contract with a Pa31 operator for hospital transport? Or did that go after the accident at LPL?

[Tonyq]

Yes, they do have such an arrangement, for air ambulance type flights, used for emergency situations or high dependency patient transfers. However the earlier posts referred to able bodied passengers travelling under their own steam.

[FS01]

midrif i agree with what you are saying. However it is not just EuroManx that it concerns. IOM in general has seen a decline is pax figures over the last 18 months. Something needs to be done to address this. One thing would seem to be an improvement in peak hour security.

[chrism20]

I am looking at the same figures and stand by what I said.

LTN has returned which is good news, we will have to wait until the end of this month to see how it has affected the LGW route though.

MAN has averaged anywhere between 9 & 17% down yoy since May last month was 2.5%

Also they dropped over 7% in September but only 2.6% in October.

[Powerjet1]

LTN has returned which is good news, we will have to wait until the end of this month to see how it has affected the LGW route though.

Would have thought the effect would have been minimal, bearing in mind LGW is 4 x daily, against LTN at 4 x weekly, at least for the moment.

[IOMspotter]

looks like the North is down as Steam packet is an option. Steam packet to Birkenhead! :\ or 3W to LPL at £50+ and most will still go by boat

Southern routes and ireland all doing quite well though:) but VLM eating into LCY.:ooh:

[lfc84]

Bad news for Euromanx from Manxradio.com...
Passenger numbers down for flights but up for the boats.......
Sea traffic through Douglas has increased, for the tenth consecutive month.
So far this year the total figure is up nearly 20% for vehicles and just over 12% for foot passengers.
In October the increase was just over 8% for passengers and just under 9% for vehicles.
Steam Packet figures show a drop on the Belfast route and also to Heysham.
However, there has been a significant rise to the Island's traditional port of entry to the United Kingdom, Liverpool.
Director of Harbours Captain Mike Brew describes the overall figures as 'excellent'.
And from Three FM
Twenty thousand people travelled between the Isle Of Man and Liverpool using the Steam Packet during October that's up by 25% on last year.

Looking at their reservation system in January there appears to be a few occasions when they drop the 3W0405 and 3W0408. Is this because loads are getting so low that they have decided to cut services ?

[FS01]

Manx2.com launching £15 single, flights to BLK and BHD/BFS. Possibly bad for EuroManx BHD. will have to wait and see. As for the LPL dropping flights it could be that they are full or the ATR is coveriing for a Dash to MAN

[fredtheanorak]

Also some SAT rotations in JAN have been pulled on BHD. :{

[lfc84]

BHD & LPL........definite cut backs........they cant all be full !!!

[IOMspotter]

Which would explain post of BA City Flyer looking at IOM-LCY? :}. As the only jet service to London itd do well:ok: and give good connections to european financial centres avoiding the dredead LGW:D

[Anotherflapoperator]

I reckon the real story is that the new management is trying to get the cash back from when the previous lot bought the hulls. If the sale goes through, I reckon the Dashs will still be there, only leased instead of owned.

As for Cityflyer....the size of the market for LCY is just too small. Treading on FlyBE's toes is a non starter as the History between and links of the two companys preclude that kind of competition.

My money's on the minimum of change next year.....but who know's in aviation!

[FS01]

LCY is currently 'full' besides why would BA want to return to the island??

[MUFC_fan]

Not when EMX become extinct!:}

[IOMspotter]

theres 4 LCY rotations a day-3 Euromanx and 1 VLM. Morning and evening with a 146 would kill these and the sort of pax on this rout would pay lots more to fly BA and get there airmiles back;)

[virginblue]

There would also be a limited number of connections available through LCY on BACF to such places as MAD, MIL, FRA and ZRH.

[FS01]

BA CityFlyer Would have a better use for the slots than IOM if any do become availble. Why though is there a general consensus that EuroManx is in so much trouble?? you would be suprised!

[Haven't a clue]

Flew LCY-IOM week before last. JS was on the plane. Pre boarding he spent ages on his mobile apparantly trying to sort out why we had a lousy stand allocation (= bus) and other matters. Not the actions of a captain on a sinking ship, methinks.

Sale/leaseback is a sensible business strategy. I wish them many more years as a carrier to/from the island.

[atprider]

sounds about right for JS wingeing about stand allocation - that man's got a persecution complex.

[fredtheanorak]

Why though is there a general consensus that EuroManx is in so much trouble??

How about:\

1 Sales and marketing director quits and not replaced
2 both planes put up for sale
3 reservations "outsourced"
4 price war with FlyBe on Moanchester
5 half empty planes on Belfast
6 20% drop on Liverpool
7 Lost market share to VLM on City

Apart from that theres no reason at all:O

[manx crab]

Having just traveled with them to Man over this weekend, they must be doing something right. Plane was pretty well full in both directions and on time:).The only thing that let them down was the crap baggage service in the IOM:ugh:

Now as someone who has avoided flying with them since all the WS induced nonsense with all the attendant "rescheduling" and unreliability, it took a lot to change to them. I changed to them because of the continuing unreliability of their competitor to Man, and before ADC2604 flames me, the equivalent Flybe flights were badly delayed.

Let us hope the rumours are not true and they will have the capital and the time to build a solid future

[FS01]

manx crab, you refer to crap baggage service in IOM?? what do you mean??

[lfc84]

Euromanx getting competition on the LPL route.

Flybe just announced 3 daily from 30 March 2008. Fares from £19.99 inc tax.

Interesting times ahead.

[virginblue]

Plus LTN going double daily which will have some impact on their LCY service. Add to that the new 15 GBP fares by Manx2 on BHD and BLK and all in all not a nice week for Euromanx....

[IOMspotter]

No wonder theyve put the planes for sale. Must have been told this was coming:oh: Aer Arran could be getting there ATR back in March:eek:

[fredtheanorak]

To finish my points to FS01

8 160,000 Extra seats onto LPL:\
9 50,000 Extra seats to North London:ooh:
10 Goodnight:{

[nospeedrestriction9]

Mirdif, I'm sure the bank will throw him a life raft but only until they get the money back then they'll give him some concrete boots :ok:

[jetstreamtechrecords]

I see all the MAN IOM rotations today have been cancelled as aircraft tech. Any one know the cause?

[IOMspotter]

Rumour here today is that Euromanx have offered to sell the LCY slot pairs to BACF (or anyone) from March. :\ Maybe as theyre trying to sell the planes they might as well cash in the slots as theres nothing left to operate them:confused:. Is that what Martin Naylor is up to ? He 's been skulking around a lot .:cool: Last man out.....:{

[FS01]

BB has been Tech all day. Sat in IOM.

[manx crab]

FS01

The "crap" baggage service is the interminable wait for the baggage as they pile , in this case, baggage from three flights onto the wagon before deciding to bring it to the conveyor. Then the scrum starts as the luggage is all jumbled up. It is not the first time it has happened either.

[FS01]

thats unfortunately common

[manx crab]

Yes I know it is and that it is not the airlines fault but it still irks.

Sadly though, the writing must be on the wall for EMX, unless Aer Arann or someone else comes to rescue them with all this from Flybe. Although if if we go on the previous happenings then in 18 months you will see a Flybe Q400 operating for Euromanx on the LPL route:eek:

[Anotherflapoperator]

Err, don't think so. Not this time. The Liverpool route will be a bloodbath this summer. Come October, the winner will be only too clear.

[IOMspotter]

FS01Tech
BB has been Tech all day. Sat in IOM.

all yesterdays MAN can. Only last MAN today operated all rest can. BHD can both days.:{ and.... BE running on time. Cant see the LPL war even starting at this rate BE will have no one to fight:(

[fredtheanorak]

Not sure the Captains and FOs (particularly the manx and Brit ones) are planning to stay for a Xmas kiss from their beloved leader :yuk: Everyones worked out that no planes means no flights means no jobs:{

[FS01]

Unfortunately it gets harder by the day to defend 3W. Just a point, the 701 and 705 MAN flights DID operate today. The latter operated by EJ. The BHD was CANX today although yesterday I believe that the BHD was removed from the schedule.

It doesn't look like the war for LPL will start! BB has been sat for 2 days recieving no attention. In days gone 3W would have an aircraft chartered in... not any more. Manx2 will be loving this... while BE won't be bothered.

[HON]

Guys and girls, what do you really think the future has in store for Euromanx and Manx 2??

[Austro7]

The future is indeed a very interesting time for all carriers on the Island and with Euromanx in their current setup looks to be bleak. I hope they do survive as it has been a very good product for the island over the years. Despite everybodys willingness for them not to succeed they have still managed to take 6,000 passengers on the manchester route so obviously the public dont share the doom and gloom.

Who says Flybe is the answer, you only have to look at public opinion on the rock to see that their reputation is in tatters. They have no employees other than crew on the island and have a lot of bridges to mend with the passengers they have let down since taking over from BACON.

Manx 2 good luck to them they just need the destinations where the volumes are.

[EMX]

HBB was aog due to an problem with the mlg doors. Due to this problem, a SAS landing could occur, so it was decided to wait for the spare part and leave it on the ground.

[EMX81L]

OEHBB is now flyin and its tech problem is fixed. It will be off to SCN in a couple of days, maybe tomoza for a C Check i think. I know its away for a gd while anyay

[Haven't a clue]

So what is operating LCY while it's gone? BC or (ehem) a D328?

[FS01]

Who says it will be replaced?? It is unlikely but they may just 'reschedule' and combine loads. I would hope not. EuroManx have had there problems this week and there is a lot i hear they could have done to rectify them. They need to be at their best to ensure that come March 2008 they are ready to take on FlyBe

[EMX81L]

I would of thought EMX would bring in G-CDFF from Flightline, or Air Southwest. I think OEHBC would be off to LCY and the other aircraft will do BHD and MAN.

OEHBB's MT has been planned for a gd while, so Im sure EMX have the sub ready to go

[Ayline]

G-CDFF departed Guernsey at 1430 today as EMX036P bound for the Isle of Man.

[fredtheanorak]

Not without training for LCY steep approach they wont in CDFF

[IOMspotter]

Looks like the UK aviation bloodbath is happening now. Fly whoosh and MaxJet both on the way out. . BA coming back to IOM from LCY:). Stand by for fare wars on LPL and LCY to add to MAN and BHD:eek:

[MikeStanton]

Quote - So what is operating LCY while it's gone? BC or (ehem) a D328?

I dont know the registration but they are definately using a dash 8 at present as I see the 230pm arrival most days!

[manx crab]

MikeStanton

They only have Dash 8's at the moment. The question is what will they be operating after April'08 when they are sold!

[nospeedrestriction9]

It sems EuroManx' website is telling me it's unsafe to give my credit card details online as the security is invalid.

Perhaps I shouldnt book with them until they are safe again :rolleyes:.

Me thinks it could be some time!

[Haven't a clue]

Not sure what exactly you mean by EMX website advising unsafe credit card security etc. I have been booking with them most weeks, the last within 7 days, and had no messages and (touch wood) no problem. Or are you saying that some Microsoft product on your PC is advising this?

You can always book over the phone and as far as I know there's no extra cost involved.

[iwhak]

no speedrestriction9

A lot of sweat, blood and tears and money goes into setting up an airline, by the investors and more importantly by the management and staff. 3W no matter what you think of them have staff and family depending on an income to live. Yes, they are going through the mill, but without new airlines and new ventures the world will be stuck with a few carriers who will dictate fares. This is an aviation forum - supporting avaiton, depending on aviation - why is it that there are a few, always a few, who revel on airlines going through a tough time, and through apperances seem to wish upon their demise. I would suggest you should have a speed restriction - on your tongue - and think of the many employees and their families who have access to this thread/

[manx crab]

no speedrestriction9

Seems to work for me, the booking is outsourced anyway so not directly connected to EMX and the certificate looks like it is valid to 2010. Maybe it is something in your computer setup

[IOMspotter]

iwhak your comments are a bit harsh. Were all in aviation and there but for the grace of God gos me. :{:{BUT 3W management 9or lackof it cant be ignored. How much are they pouring down the drain on BHD every day flying empty planes? LPL will become a bloodbath MANs already gone that way. They should chop the 2 dashes and focus on one jet to LCY 3 times daily and MAN twice . Give LPL to Flybe and BHD to Flybe or Manxy2:D Stop fighting wars they cant win and get a grip before its too late:ok:

[AirLCY]

EMX would be better off sticking to prop's far more economical than any jet they would be able to afford. DH4 would be good, depending on lease costs. 146 / RJ's are huge fuel drinkers and ERJ170's etc are expensive to lease.

[fredtheanorak]

I agree with Air LCY:D on november pax loads a small turboprop will do. What happened to 328 plans:confused:

[Plainandsimple]

EMX Staff have received a copy press release today which states that LPL, MAN and BHD are all to be sold at £19 ow from 7th January. If you ask me this is either a last ditch attempt or War against the competition. My vote is with the 2nd option. Good on em I say. Who says they cant win? They've fought off strong competition before ......:D

[Plainandsimple]

The press release is out at 0800 on Monday. It says that there are seats available on every flight every day. I heard that they are really going for this big time and that there is plenty of seats allocated to the rate....The whole aircraft for sale issue could just be a way cutting costs and finding something more suitable for their routes. If they were thinking about ending it in March why would they continue to sell seats?

[IOMspotter]

Only one tiny problem here.:bored:

£19 fares

less £10 APD
less £5- £10 Airport tax
less £5 handling

= loss before any plane operatin or staff or crew costs:ouch:

= goodbye:{

Any f:mad:can give away seats . They need a route where they can hike fares not slash them:cool:

[Capt. Horrendous]

Fares are available at £38 return with both EM and Flybe from next April on their respective websites already.

The deepest pockets are going to win this one.

[ADC2604]

IMHO, Flybe seem to have turned things around at IOM - bearing in mind things didn't start off very well I think people are beginning to accept them on their island.

However Euromanx, despite their efforts are having great difficulty in building passenger confidence and I am not sure if low fares will necessarily be enough to turn things around and allow Euromanx to succeed. Clearly IOM residents would like to be proved wrong as EMX has been on the island for years and is part of the IOM furniture if you like.

[fredtheanorak]

Im sure people will be asking why Euros are selling seats for £9 (after Gordons £10 tax take). Are they desperate for cash flow:confused::confused:.

Flybe make quite a few quid on top with charges for bags, seat selection, insurance drinks on board etc. so they probley get another £10 on top when alls said and done.:)

Great for pax short term but will all end in tears:{:{

[Plainandsimple]

Maybe EMX just want to make a statement. Since the MBO there have been a lot of "we're here to stay" talks. Perhaps the low fares are just another way of getting this point across whilst earning some brownie points from the manx public and putting the wind up FlyBe at the same time. No-one is saying that they are going blast Flybe out the sky but atleast they are putting up a fight and trying to hang onto the routes and laterally keep the staff in jobs.

[IOMspotter]

3W have no competition on LPL till April so why are ALL seats at £9 after APD from January :confused::confused::confused:. Its even on there peak commuter flight and FRI nights:eek:. This is a mad short term cash grab not a long term statement. Theyll fill out there best TT flights for next year at £9 a seat:{

:mad:mad.

[MUFC_fan]

The reason they have cheap flights in Jan is that they need to build a passenger base which they can sustain throughout the summer.

IOMSpotter, you really don't get business do you? Do you think FR sells all it's seats for 1p? No. The airline's top rate will increase and there will be a higher inter-quartile range on most flights, with more money then coming in on the Fridays and Sundays. Its worked for FR (on a different scale!)

I would also think that they will be cutting back on the inflight catering?

[fredtheanorak]

iomspotter has made one fair point. No airline sells Friday night seats getting off the rock to anywhere for £9 unless..:ooh:

[IOMspotter]

Not sure what happens post 31 March Mirdif but im told 29th March is last BHD flight:uhoh:.

[Riverboat]

If seats are being sold for £9 net, it won't be for cash flow, will it!!! Is that what they call an oxymoron?

It is obviously to get bums on seats, and have good advertising story. My guess is that there will only be 5 seats at £19 - the minimum 10% required. After that prices will increase.

It is a tried and tested method that often works.

[manx crab]

If they only have 5 seats per flight at that rate then it won't be for bums on seats either:)

If they did not match the fares of Flybe then quiet simply the forward bookings would dry up. The problem for them now is that they have only LCY left to use as a cash cow with the competition starting at LPL.

One way or another it is all going to end in :{

[virginblue]

If seats are being sold for £9 net, it won't be for cash flow, will it!!! Is that what they call an oxymoron?

Well, they also get their hands on the taxes and fees for the time being as these only need to be passed on once the passenger has actually traveled. So selling tickets months in advance (and some low cost carriers at the moment already sell tickets for March 2009....) is some kind of an interest-free credit for cash-strapped airlines for the time until they finally go under.

[fredtheanorak]

VLMs change in ownership could spice up LCY then for 2008. :confused:

[Anotherflapoperator]

Possibly Fred, but if the VLm/AirFrance/CityJet monster does all happen, will it really make much of a difference. I can't see them changing the daystop much, possibly send it down at lunchtime to further pressurise the Red Tails, but is there the trade to justify a Night stop?

If EMX go under, then yes I'd expect them to try basing an F50 here, but not a 146/RJ. Night stopping implies two sets of crew, plus possible standby too. Engineering, hotac, etc. Now if they'd consider something like an AMS-IOM-LCY-IOM-DUB or something like that to capitalise on two way Island to City traffic, you never know.

As you say, interesting times ahead in '08.

[fredtheanorak]

was told over NY by a swerving red tail man that BHD goes by end of March but they are hanging with the announcement till Feb to help cash flow:\

[IOMspotter]

seems theres an important board meeting this week to decide a few things. :uhoh::eek::ouch:

[EMX81L]

Im guessing Summer Schedule, and aircraft might well be on the agenda. Preparing the battle plan against Flybe possibly. Not long to go until the Round One bell goes off.......Ding Ding!

[IOMspotter]

or maybe its to discuss jackanory puntuality figures. Half todays flites are cancelled but on the website next week it'll be the usual 99% on time performance :mad:. Makes you doubt everything they say if they cant even be straight about punctuality.:{

[The Shop Floor]

Come on, it's easy to be punctual when the schedule is so flexible:

'Euromanx would like to announce the re-scheduling of their xyz service to abc'.

TSF

[fredtheanorak]

Have there been any takers for Euros 2 Dashes? :confused: Whats the news on the replacements that Seymore promised:uhoh: or is the replacemnt for one of them now just a BE Q400:{

[manx crab]

I am sure there would have been a press release if any new aircraft were coming, but they would have to have sold the old ones first:ok:.

Most people assume that EMX is in a fragile state with a large debt, it could of course have been making loads of money:eek: on the LPL and LCY routes and be selling the aircraft to reduce the debt burden which WS left it with.

[nospeedrestriction9]

J41's from Eastern maybe? Something's on the horizon.

[Manxman11]

Correct - I use LCY regularly and for me it would mean either a permanent change to VLM or using the FlyMayBe service to the squalor of LGW South terminal. The J41's are great aircraft I'm sure but they feel claustrophobic. As for using them to go on holiday through MAN or LPL I guess we would see excess charges etc appearing as luggage space is limited on the J41's.

[Tonyq]

I notice from the IOM Airport website that EMX have multiple cancellations across the network today, which have impacted all routes at some point.

Looks like they are more than simply one a/c short - anyone know the full story?

[Persimmon]

The Mother of someone I work with was booked on this evening's EMX flight to MAN. She noticed the cancellations this morning and called the Company to find out if she was going to have a problem. They told her that an aircraft had been struck by lightning but that things would be back to normal later. Clearly they are not.

[Manxman11]

Cancellations and delays again today - anyone know what the true story is?

[towser]

Theres been a tech aircraft parked up at london city for a couple of days. Don't know if its still there but it was yesterday afternoon.

[lfc84]

brewery and piss up spring to mind

[fredtheanorak]

1 bird strike, 1 lightning strike, 1 avionics prob is what Im told. :{For lots of today theyve had no aircraft at all flying. BHD canx 2 days running, lots of LPL and MAN canx both days.... but will they still claim 99% on time performance for this week cos iomspotters right, Euromanx dont count a canx flight as running late:eek: so on Monday JS will tell us again about the islands most punctual airline..NOT. :mad::mad:

[Tonyq]

As they no doubt chant each morning in the EMX PR and Marketing Dept.:-

"You can fool some of the people all the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on."

:ugh:

[The Shop Floor]

As per a recent full page Euromanx advertisment:

'maybe' you should have flown Euromanx to Manchester

'maybe not'


'maybe' they should have chartered replacements...

'maybe' they couldn't afford it


'maybe' they'll be in business come April...

'maybe' not.


Sorry, what goes around, comes around.

[nospeedrestriction9]

Fred, it's all bulls**t.
All that blurb in the in-flight mag is all propaganda.

Last one out close the door because it's on it's way out come April. I know a few of the old Manx Airline crew from there and it seems he needs to convince his staff, not just his passengers.

Bye bye AustroManx, hello Flybe.

[TechProblem]

Bravo Charlie back in operating IOM-MAN-IOM for the 725/6 its fixed, EI a/c is ok to do't know about BB though.

[IOMspotter]

so who is pouring the buckets of £££££s into Euros right now:confused:. just saw the December passenger figs for BHD. 35% :mad:load factor for the month:{
Someone must have more money than sense:confused: FlyBe now have 2/3 of the MAN market and even VLM have taken 25% of LCY up from 10% last year. When FlyBe start LPL in March you'll see the blood if they dont do something:\

[fredtheanorak]

I'm sure they will keep taking your money right up to the day the Austrian CAA says Nein:=. So you can book for April but whether the flight will operate - with :mad: loads on BHD :{and FlyBe coming onto LPL:ouch: is a different question:ooh:

[IOMspotter]

Week ending: Sun 20th Jan
Flights ontime: 71.7%
Flights within 1 hr: 92.8%

Is this weeks joke Euromanx claim.:} but if you count the many LCY,BHD,MAN and LPL flights cancelled last week the true figures are less than 60% on time:{and round 79% within an hour:{. So much for keep knocking FlyBe and the :mad: advertsing about the islands punctual airline. Looks to me that claim goes to LogiBear and Eastern:ok:

[nospeedrestriction9]

It can't be a business, it must be a registered charity. If they wanted to make money then they must be able to see by now that there are serious flaws in the business model.

Let's hope the investors cut through the BS**T and realise before it's too late!

[Haven't a clue]

I'm sure you all enjoy having a go at EMX, but remember that competition leads to low fares (Emerald vs EMX on LPL say), and if your attacks help to drive them to the wall we the IoM pax will be the losers. :=

[jetstreamtechrecords]

Heard today that both Dash's have been sold to Africa but that J41's no longer under consideration. :{

[Tonyq]

In addition, Jethro's UK Fleets show EI-REJ as being due for imminent disposal by Aer Arann, in Sweden, although presumably they can replace it with another ATR from their core fleet.

[fredtheanorak]

unless the plan is just to shut up shop as soon as all the planes have gone. :ooh:

[IOMspotter]

I heard the buyer is some airline in Africa that an english company called Lonro are involved with.:confused:

[Tonyq]

A friend here in IOM has tickets for the Liverpool FA Cup tie on Saturday.

While waiting for the match ticket to be confirmed, he was watching the EMX fares and flights and planned to do a day return. However, when he came to book yesterday, the last LPL-IOM at 20.00 had disappeared from the website.

He didn't believe it was full, as the fare had been cheap the previous day, even though EMX told him on the phone that it was sold out. When pressed, they admitted it was cancelled due to insufficient PAX. The first rotations on Sunday are also missing from the booking engine, so presumably cancelled for the same reason.

A sign of the times at EMX ?

[euromanxdude]

for your information, flight 3W424 is still operating on schedule departing at 20:00 with a FULL flight. Hope this puts the record straight. :)

[Tonyq]

Happy to be corrected, and glad PAX loads can be so healthy at times on LPL, despite overall trend.

Perhaps there will be enough room for two operators........... at least during the football season..:)

[nospeedrestriction9]

TonyQ- Another great achievement by AustroManx, actually filling all 66 seats with cheap fares for such a busy weekend!

[euromanxdude]

correction 68 seats. yes it is busy. with football fans, vfr traffic, and sports teams. :)

[manx crab]

Of course all this speculation would end if EMX issued a press release with what is happening after their aircraft are sold:confused:

[IOMspotter]

sold to the dark continent it seems..... speculation of course not helped by them cancelling loads of BHD flights in March :uhoh:. Sorry Euromanx dude your bosses have lost the plot:{

[euromanxdude]

IOMspotter.....its euromanxdude not Euromanx dude, hehehe :ok:

[manx crab]

What people want to know though is, if they book a flight for say June with EMX who/what are they going to be flying with/in.

I am sure there is a plan somewhere, they just need to find it.

[IOMspotter]

manx crab

I am sure there is a plan somewhere, they just need to find it.

It looks more like they do have a plan and the answer's FlyBE.:{

So sell the aircraft and LCY slots then arrividerchy Roma!:eek:

[GBALU53]

Is there an interested party wanting to take over Euromanx?
There has been talks going on in the Isle of Man with an interested company within the last week or so, has any body any ideas on who and why?:ok:

[manx crab]

GBALU53

What exactly is there to take over at Euromanx if they have sold their aircraft.

The name, LCY slots and an Austrian AOC and thats about it from what I can see.

Unless of course they are extremely profitable:eek:

[IOMspotter]

Manx Crab looks to be right on:8. im sure Euromanx have been talking to anyone to try & find a lifeline but when youve responded to increased competition by selling your planes and have your last monopoly route disappearing next month youll need a heck of a lot of bull:mad: to make a good story out of that. :sad:

[fragul]

Get the Violins out, but I do feel sorry for the dedicated folks who've stuck with it......

Mr S. you've a lot to answer for!

[atprider]

A bit harsh midrif. I know of quite a few FD & cabin crew who have given sterling service to Euromanx while being treated like mushrooms. I know vote with your feet applies, but it's still a shame they should have to.

[IOMspotter]

heard rumour of FlyBe capacity increase on LPL &MAN in march to be announced later this month:cool: :mad::mad:

[nospeedrestriction9]

Slots already approved I've heard!

Fasten your seatbelt JS, It will be a bumpy few months with Flybe stepping up the pressure.

Cheers!

[flightlevel26]

Who owes more money, Northern Rock or EuroManx?

It's going to be a tough summer and not good news for the EMX overdraft. Between the two but I know who the winner will be.

I know many of my old friends who now fly for them and I wish them the best of luck in finding a new job.

[speedrestriction]

With 3 TP operators going / gone over the last few months (Whoosh/Citystar/Euromanx) one wonders what things will look like in another twelve months.

[EasyBeat]

One wonders like things will look like in 12 months?
What are you on about? Tell me apart from the obvious, what do those 3 companies have in common?

Someone should tell Flybe and Aer Arann that Turbo Prop operators are going out of business. We best all get jet conversions quick.

I heard last week that BMI were going to start a LHR IOM LHR service with a 319. My point is, most of the stuff on here is all made up, nothing anyone as really said in the last few posts is credible.

I know, lets stop stirring and lets discuss the facts.

Oh thats right none of you have any.

[Anotherflapoperator]

I know plenty of EMX and other crews read this, so I just want to say I do genuinely feel for you all at this point. The future looks very rocky indeed, unless you're in the Blue corner. However, for all IOM based pilots not flying Q400s right now, there may be opportunities in the next week or so. PM me for the low down.

[speedrestriction]

Easybeat,
What are you on about?

I should have been a bit clearer: what I'm on about is that small UK TP operators are being squeezed out of the market now that BE has effectively joined so many dots on the map. Is there an independant future for small TP operators with 30+ seat aircraft?

sr

[nospeedrestriction9]

Mirdif, Half the crew already have one foot out of the door. That's what happens when the airline is run like the secret service!

[virginblue]

speedrestriction,

I think the UK is quickly moving in a direction we have already seen in Germany where almost all independent operators have disappeared (EAE, Dauair, Cityair) or have been swallowed up by either Lufthansa (Eurowings, Contactair, Cirrus Airlines, Augsburg Airways) or Air Berlin (LGW). There are only OLT and Intersky left now in Germany. OLT only survives because of PSOs and corporate shuttle, with the odd scheduled route thrown in. Intersky, in a way like Air Southwest, has found a niche in which it is able to survive, which, however, also limits future growth. Once Air Berlin is getting some Q400s, we will certainly see some of Intersky's and OLT's remaining routes coming under attack as well-patronized 30seater routes with somewhat higher fares are a fair game for a LCC-style Q400 operation.

Over here in Germany folks are already holding their breath whether Air Berlin will survive its acquistion spree and the breathtaking expansion. Pretty much the same concerns will be true for Flybe in the UK, I guess. If they fail to succeed, they will have, to some extent, destroyed the regional markets that are too small to be served by more traditional LCCs with 120-150 seaters.And in the end, Lufthansa will have the market more or less for its own, controlling all remaining regional airlines and the merged TUIFly/Germanwings LCC-operation.

[Anotherflapoperator]

Mirdif, I make no apologies.

I'm offering an olive branch to those in most need right now. Facing a black hole like this is a nightmare we all wish would never happen, but the inevitable means folk are looking for security. My employers are sensitve to this, it also makes good economics. Irrespective of commercial concerns, it's all about feeding your family.

Some folk have or will make the choice to move off Island, and some for family reasons really need to stay put. For those folk, we can possibly help out. Is that so wrong?

[Austro7]

Am I missing some news story or have you all decided that the airline you have slagged off and the austrians pilots (first officers) in this forum for the past twevle months is now no more.

Its really great of you to offer us all jobs. How can I thank you and your employers enough I so appreciate the offer but I presume this is not open to captains as there are enough of you on the island !!!!

Thanks but no thanks

[EasyBeat]

Seems that way Austro... Im with you,
Flapoperator... don't bother showing us the olive branch, if anything it is rubbing salt into the wound

We all have our problems; I'm sure the BACX Flybe merger gave you sleepless nights. You got through it without any help from this thread.

I'm sure if anyone wants to go to your side, they will have already sent in a CV.

I'm just at a blank as the rest of you, but I come in do my job and go home. I have no idea what's going to happen. But I like flying for a local airline, the boys and girls at EMX get the job done. They are not some massive engine where in the grand scheme of things I'm just another number.

[Anotherflapoperator]

My only offer was really to help find those CVs in the pile and lift them up where they'll get noticed! It's a sad fact that often the skippers are the ones who are more rooted locally, and there are no opportunities for them from my end. I only wish there were. Unless you fancy West Air for function flight tests that is.