ISLE OF MAN

[PAXboy]

It looks like I have the honour of starting a thread for postings of this neat little feild. Locally known as Ronaldsway and to the rest of the world as IOM/EGNS.

I understand that there is an extension planned for the main runways? This to be (naturally) on the seaward side to the eastern side.

What is planned or is it already approved? How would the extension improve access and what category of a/c could then be handled? Any dates?

Lastly, who was the instigator of this? Demand from carriers, regulators or self interest by the House of Keys? (name of the island's parliament)

I tend to visit IOM three times a year to see my mother who lives in Castletown (out towards Scarlett point) and I often see the house on approach/departure.

Many thanks.
__________________
"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different."
Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

[revik]

Don't get too excited. It is not a runway extension per se but (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong) an exercise in compliance with ICAO (?) recommended runway end overrun areas. There is, or was the last time I was in the terminal, a large display of the proposed works that, as you rightly say, see civil engineering works at the 26 end. I believe that there might be a slight increase in the TODA but it is in the order of 150m. I'm sure the Ronalsdway ATC posters can give more information.

The airport itself is still undergoing ramp concrete renewal to facilitate around 14 stands - and the terminal itself is in for a revamp - so there's plenty of overtime for the DoT boys coming up.:ok:

[Haven't a clue]

IOM Airport 2004 press release here:
http://www.gov.im/airport/news/ViewNews.gov?page=lib/news/airport/extension.xml&menuid=11570
Construction will probably be 2010.
Still trying to understand reasons behind all this work - not aware of similar projects elsewhere, and wondering how Jersey which presumably is also affected will manage to comply...
(Not a dig at that other Island - just genuinely puzzled!)

[spanishflea]

I believe a similar thing is taking place at City of Derry airport in Northern Ireland?

[Hansol]

Slightly different at London Derry, they have to extend their runway or the new Ryanair 737-800's can't get in and they would lose the service.

[PAXboy]

Thanks Haven't a clue for the link. I am bemused by these words:The design team for the project has been appointed [snip] Aviation International Marketing (AIM) for marketing analysis.
So ... for a project that is purely engineering and is being done for safety and to improve capacity ... you still need a 'marketing' company? :ugh:

I might be well wide of the mark here but, a press release stating exactly what the Airport Director says in the three paragraphs attributed to him, says it all. It is:

Safety
Regulations linked to safety
Capacity for more flights over long distances
What is so complicated about that. :rolleyes:

__________________
"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different."
Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

[skiddyiom]

paxboy, I would hazard a guess that the dear old manx Government need a marketing company to explain coherently to the naturally trucculent pax that fly in and out of the island, the reasons behind the necessary extension work.

As it is, many people still think that this "extension" will bring in larger aircraft (I have heard the word Jumbo passed around! :ugh: ) Hopefully, by employing someone who can string a sentence together that the masses can understand, the masses will then be fully cogniscent of the aims and end result.

Sheesh, I should have been in marketing myself with that pile of bull***t:}

As for the apron improvements and increased stands, there is a school of thought that says its not being done the right way and there will be delays at peak times. One waits with baited breath............ :8

skiddy

[Barnaby the Bear]

It looks like I have the honour of starting a thread for postings of this neat little feild. Locally known as Ronaldsway and to the rest of the world as IOM/EGNS.

Um don't you mean Fraggle Rock! :}

Sorry couldn't resist

[JB007]

Anyone know where the name Ronaldsway came from?

[Capt. Horrendous]

Ronaldsway is the name of the area bounded by Castletown, Ballasalla and Derbyhaven where the airport now sits. Originally known as ''Ragnvalds-vagr'' - " Reginald’s bay " or, " Reginald’s ford," it has Norse origins and was probably derived from the name of some Viking chief.

Things haven't moved on much since:p

[skiddyiom]

Capt. Horrendous

Yeah, the Vikings still run the airport - the just don't wear horned helmets anymore. :}

skiddy

[Haven't a clue]

As for the apron improvements and increased stands, there is a school of thought that says its not being done the right way and there will be delays at peak times. :8
Flew back from Gatwick yesterday afternoon (11/7). Landed right on time but held on Alpha taxiway for 20 minutes waiting for one of the 7 stands to clear. All filled with usual traffic except for the visiting Palmair B737 hogging one of them with no one around.

Delay no real big deal for me (other than the continuous struggle for space with adjacent pax in those narrow, narrow seats).

But I see the last Gatwick flight of the day due at 2040 landed at 2120. I hope BA Connect weren't charged with the cost of extending the opening hours when the reason for the delay clearly wasn't their fault!

[Haven't a clue]

According to the schedules there are 8 aircraft nightstopping on the 7 stands so I guess one will have to get towed away each evening.

But to get back to the original thread started by Paxboy. The runway work is not only safety driven, but the short extension is, if one can see through the quotes attributed to politicians in the local press, to add to the encouragement given to a LCC to start operations. One LCC (Easyjet as I recall) has indicated that runway length was a factor in not starting a London area service. (I would also have thought the small catchment area at one end of the route might also have been a factor...)

I was wrong with the timing. IoM Government budget book has this work starting 2007 through 2009 with "runway refurbishment and airfield equipment" in 2008 through 2011.

The development plan for the airport also has the construction of a new control tower (2007-2009), further apron extensions (2009/2010) and the extension of the departure lounge through the area now occupied by the much modified WW2 control tower (2010-2011).

Always assuming the Government has the cash to pay for it all, of course!

[Haven't a clue]

A while back I wondered what would happen post Manx2 start up when 8 aircraft nightstopped on the 7 curently available stands. I see that (following the LGW 57L/57R etc principle) that the Eastern J41 shares a stand with the Manx2 LET-410 so there really is no problem then. Unless one airline ups the size of it's aircraft.....:cool: :cool:

[PAXboy]

Posting here rather than the BACON thread as it is a problem for the Island.

I have just returned from one visit to mother and needed to plan and book for the next. This will be in January, so I wanted to see about dates to get a reasonable price. Last year, BA ran only 3 or 4 rotations a week to LTN. Looking into January '07, a few minutes ago brings:
We do not operate direct service from Luton (London) to Isle of Man. However, We can offer you the following direct service(s): - Gatwick (London) to Isle of Man

So, it looks like another successful withdrawal of service then? :hmm: With Aer Arran moving in, it's almost like someone invited them to take up the route? No, surely no commercial airline would invite another to take over their patch and then state that there was not enough traffic on the route?

I can't be bothered to test the timetable to see when they drop LTN~IOM and I doubt that it yet states if it comes back in the Spring ...

[Powerjet1]

I can't be bothered to test the timetable to see when they drop LTN~IOM and I doubt that it yet states if it comes back in the Spring ...
It finishes at the end of October and the closure is permanent. It will not be reintroduced in the spring. The rotation is being transferred to LGW which will then have a 4 x daily service. This has been on the cards for months and was expected, especially since Aer Arran began operating the route.
For the winter, Aer Arran will operate a daily, afternoon departure on the IOM-LTN route.

[virginblue]

The decrease of LTN services probably has to do with the growing attractiveness of services to LCY thanks to Euromanx and VLM. The August figures were (brackets: AUG05):

LCY 5829 (4953)
LGW 10.457 (10.778)
LTN 6691 (3432)
STN 0 (1852)

There has been an overall increase of approx. 2.000 pax on the LON market a year-to-year basis. It appears as if the capacity of the cheapish STN flights was mainly absorbed by LCY and LTN (while I would guess that the increase at LTN is mainly responsible why the LGW have taken a dive in an overall growing market). Looking at figures, it must be noted that LCY has grown despite the use of a smaller aircraft in 2006 compared to 2005 (IIRC, the number of flights has stayed the same: Three by 3W, one by VG).

Given that the market is growing, the cutback of capacity at LTN should seriously increase load factors and yields for the other companies.

As for your personal flight planning, 3W has sone reasonbly priced flights from LCY for as little as 34 GBP all incl.

[Barnaby the Bear]

Anybody know if they have had many replies to there advert for an ATCO? :8

[Haven't a clue]

BACon would have dropped the LTN for an LGW rotation this summer but could not secure LGW slots. As the only BA LTN route, handing agents were not geared up for e-tickets. And e-ticket rules!

[Ronaldsway Radar]

Got back from MAN the other day, and we were waiting on Bravo for about 10mins for the departing aircraft to pass so we could get to our stand.

I was told some time ago that the current apron layout whilst continued maintenance takes place, will stay even after the stands have been modified and the new ones added.

Meaning that the apron will be permanently extended onto the old section of twy Bravo, so that the only entrance/exits to/from the apron are Bravo from the east (with access from Charlie) and Foxtrot/Echo from the west.. only a rumour though so don't quote me on it :}!!

If that does turn out true though...should we expect more taxiing delays and delayed arrival/departure slots? Methinks yes, but methinks too often! :)

Cheers all!
RR

[PAXboy]

Thanks for feedback regarding BACON ex-LTN now being EX. :(

It will be Aer Arran for me as both LCY + LGW are more than twice the distance from home. On the other hand, the price of car parking at LTN means that I must look at the benefits of taking the train to LGW!! REA prices are good but the car parking fees are not.

[Haven't a clue]

Meaning that the apron will be permanently extended onto the old section of twy Bravo, so that the only entrance/exits to/from the apron are Bravo from the east (with access from Charlie) and Foxtrot/Echo from the west.. only a rumour though so don't quote me on it

AFAIK that is the final layout. There's even a mocked up aerial photograph of this layout on the board in the departures lounge which shows how the new lounge and walkway will look.

But there will be 4 stands each side of the pier, so ATC should be able to manage out most if not all conflicts

[Hansol]

lol rwy atc managing aircraft movements...v.good, tell me another.

[airportioman]

So what exactly have ATC done to upset you Hansol, pray tell?

[Ronaldsway Radar]

Hey Hansol,

Sorry to have to ('kind of') disagree...:}

I feel that ATC have been / are , doing a good job of keeping the flow of traffic as efficient as possible during these times of heavy, and most annoying maintanence work!

Though I'm open to being proved wrong :)

Cheers - RR!

[GMIMA]

think that the guys in the tower do a very good job!!!!!!!!!

Can be a bit annoying at times when we have to move out the way for the sacrid cow (the BA knackard old 146 with the hurray henrys), we can keep 250 kts to 8 miles, where as a jet has to slow down wayout.

Shame that the airport management wouldnt be a bit more active.

Wish I had the Airport Directors job................sitting there looking out of the window.................i guess i do that, but i have to push buttons!:}

[manx crab]

Wish I had the Airport Directors job................sitting there looking out of the window.................i guess i do that, but i have to push buttons!:}

Have you applied for the job then?:)

[Beta Range]

Doesn't everything just have to wait for anything with BA written on the side of it.......anywhere!!

[airportioman]

GMIMA, how exactly would you like airport management to be more active?

And you have gone very quiet Hansol......

[skiddyiom]

Doesn't everything just have to wait for anything with BA written on the side of it.......anywhere!!

Not here. Now, if it has "Manx" written on it.................... :hmm:

skiddy

[Haven't a clue]

A while ago I said that once the apron work was complete, ATC should be able to manage access conflicts, and despite others' sarcasm, I'm sure they will.

There is a however a flaw in the layout which has delayed the arrival of my baggage to the carousel, and hence me, on a couple of occasions recently. The vehicle roadway runs between the stands and the taxiway. Baggage trucks understandably have to wait for any aircraft being pushed back. Normally that would only take a moment, however they are also waiting for any aircraft starting on stand. In my experience J31s and J41s take an age to get going (they also need a GPU so always start on stand before pushback). So you can have a very lengthy wait while the baggage truck waits for the thing to move. Two starting in a row compounds the problem. The same delays apply to the coach heading for the remote stands.

Then you take the knock on delays at "peak" time and the crowds in the baggage hall become extremely agitated......:(

[Ransman]

Just heard from the crew on the way home that Aer Arran are also dropping their LTN service after Christmas. Anyone else heard this? Four LGW rotations a day though must be an improvement, and if you really,really want to be in LTN, the train from LGW South terminal takes approx 75 mins, and costs £21 each way. Makes airtravel look cheap!

[Powerjet1]

Pity if its true. From tomorrow the route drops to a daily service as opposed to twice daily, and seems to be operated by a LTN based aircraft offering an afternoon service. With BA transferring their daily rotation to LGW, this would leave LTN without an IOM connection for the first time in many years.

Aer Arran is due to start using the based aircraft to operate the twice daily WAT,with an early morning departure ex LTN, with the IOM in the afternoon, albeit with a gap, so perhaps other things are in the pipeline.

[manx crab]

For what its worth LTN is still showing as available in Jan and Feb on the Aer Arann website, unlike VLM's IOM-LCY which shows no availabilty after December.
Is this another route/operator to disappear from the IOM ?

[Haven't a clue]

I guess Aer Arran got fed up with having to fork out the cost of extending Ronaldsway's operating hours - their last LTN was scheduled to arrive at 2100 and frequently arrived much later.

Airport statistics show VLM IOM/LCY at 781 pax for Sep. Running Mon-Fri that's 20 round trips say, 40 flights total. Average load is thus 19 on a 50 seater. And I've had some pretty cheap tickets, so I guess it's cheaper for them to pay for parking at LCY than operate to IOM.

[Island Jockey]

VLM IOM-LCY is one rotation per day Mon-Fri. which is 10 flights per week. With Pax carried in Sept being 781 is average of 180 pax per month.

This works out for Sept an average of 18 passengers on a 50 seat Aircraft.

Same average seat factor as 'Haven't a clue' but with less rotations.

Not much yield here!

[manx crab]

VLM flights to LCY seem to be now available to book in January 2007 and beyond. Looks like they are happy with the loads, maybe the yields are good.

[Haven't a clue]

Oh goodie - then let's hope they are still offering good prices - GBP 100 return or so was nice!

[Anotherflapoperator]

Ello' new here, but not new to the Island!

From what I can work out, ATC at Ronaldsway do want to get the "knackered old 146 with it's Hurray Henry's" out first, but only cause it makes a nicer "presentation" to Manchester ATC because it's so much faster and climbs better than the turboprops. There have been numerous occasions where the 146 has been given silly speed limits stream arrivals and to stop it overtaking some of those turboprops on the way back....quite frustrating for Henry &co as it's plainly obvious that with a good 100kts or so on the TPs they'd eat it alive if given the chance.

Anyway, only one of them is a Henry you know! The rest are certainly not, and all but one would rather be flying something else, preferably younger than the cabin crew!

ATC have to my old eyes been doing a sterling job considering the chaos. They do try to get the 146 a parking position in front of the terminal, rather than bussing, but that's mainly because it needs external steps, has loads of freight as well as usually more pax than one bus can take. Logical really. During the day it's strictly first come-first served for all stands, and with this constraint the 146 crews mostly take the option if offered of waiting for a stand when it's busy around 4;30pm as the experience tells them the delay for the next rotation caused by parking facing the freight building will be more! The loaders cetainly thank them for it too!

Just one Luton left today and then we'll all see how the new schedule works out! Wish them well, because the only reason the last flights made it in nearly on time was because of the slack in the LTN rotation that allowed them to make up time. Not at LGW I suspect!

[part69]

There have been numerous occasions where the 146 has been given silly speed limits stream arrivals and to stop it overtaking some of those turboprops on the way back....quite frustrating for Henry &co as it's plainly obvious that with a good 100kts or so on the TPs they'd eat it alive if given the chance.

Remember its 250kts speed limit below FL100, most turboprops fly 240kts in descent, not much difference really.

[revik]

'There have been numerous occasions where the 146 has been given silly speed limits stream arrivals and to stop it overtaking some of those turboprops on the way back....quite frustrating for Henry &co as it's plainly obvious that with a good 100kts or so on the TPs they'd eat it alive if given the chance.'

- bolleaux!

[red17]

Does anyone have any news about the FlymayBe/BACON handling contract for IOM. Flight Support currently handles FlymayBe while Manx Regional handle BACON. Nobody is quite sure who will get the combined contract, any ideas????

Flight Support are a sister company of Euromanx and if they were to get the current BACON flights would handle a massive percentage of pax through IOM, not a good thing, and Manx Regional offer a great service so it would be a shame

[Haven't a clue]

While taxying out on board my VLM service to LCY today I saw a FlyBe E-Jet waiting for us to clear Foxtrot, and, my goodness, this is a beautiful aeroplane! Unfortunately it seemed to be a tad too long to fit on the new stands and ended up parked on the new Stand 3, which looks like it was designed for a B767 or larger...

If FlyBe deploy this aircraft on the IoM/LGW route, I will be a frequent flyer.The old adage "If it looks good, it is good" applies to this airframe!

Outstanding!:D

[fragul]

Indeed - the E195 does look like a "proper" aeroplane. Shame it's only once a week & therefore not able to avail itself of the nose-in stands due to lack of towbar. Still - if the FlyMayBe/Bacon merger has not collapsed as rumoured then we may, I repeat MAY see more of its kind in the future. However it could struggle using 21/03 whenthe RESA project starts..................:\

[Ronaldsway Radar]

Does anyone have any news about the FlymayBe/BACON handling contract for IOM. Flight Support currently handles FlymayBe while Manx Regional handle BACON. Nobody is quite sure who will get the combined contract, any ideas????

Flight Support are a sister company of Euromanx and if they were to get the current BACON flights would handle a massive percentage of pax through IOM, not a good thing, and Manx Regional offer a great service so it would be a shame

Allo,

There are more jobs opening up at Flight Support for ground handlers and dispatchers, however I've been told they're internal only at the minute, open to some of the ground guys at Manchester?

The above info was given to me by a mate in manchester so if it's wrong, don't shoot the messenger :}.

Cheers
RR

[fredtheanorak]

While taxying out on board my VLM service to LCY today I saw a FlyBe E-Jet waiting for us to clear Foxtrot, and, my goodness, this is a beautiful aeroplane! Unfortunately it seemed to be a tad too long to fit on the new stands and ended up parked on the new Stand 3, which looks like it was designed for a B767 or larger...

If FlyBe deploy this aircraft on the IoM/LGW route, I will be a frequent flyer.The old adage "If it looks good, it is good" applies to this airframe!

Outstanding!:D

Seams like FlyBe plans have changed again and itll now be 2q 400s at IOM as the EMB's might have a "Bristol" probleme - cant' make it stop in the wet fully loaded :{ . All will change aparemtly when the new runway extension opens- Anyone know when that is??:sad:

[skiddyiom]

Does anyone have any news about the FlymayBe/BACON handling contract for IOM. Flight Support currently handles FlymayBe while Manx Regional handle BACON. Nobody is quite sure who will get the combined contract, any ideas????

Flight Support are a sister company of Euromanx and if they were to get the current BACON flights would handle a massive percentage of pax through IOM, not a good thing, and Manx Regional offer a great service so it would be a shame

Nobody will know until the agreement between BA and Flybe is signed, hopefully at the end of this month. But Flight Support seem to know more than anyone and appear confident that they have the contract in the bag. However, they also said they had the Aer Arran contract and whoops!! No they hadn't! :}

skiddy

[red17]

thanks skiddy, just the wait and see at the moment, Flight Support are looking for 17 new members of staff at the moment, so its not looking too good for manx regional, but then hopefully it could be a repeat of RE, look at that contract now though, 2006 MAN, LPL, LTN, DUB 2007 DUB

[red17]

Any thoughts on the talk about BA Cityflyer IOM - LCY. Would be great to see and hopefully mean no redundancies, thing is this seems similair to whats happened before, BACON and BA Citiexpress.

[Ronaldsway Radar]

If it means no/less redundencies I'm all for it! :)

Really though, who knows what's happening at the moment, I don't know what changes more, the plans for IOM or the local wind...:}

[euromanxdude]

The rumour mill going wild - latest crazy or not to crazy rumors going around is bmi to make a comeback to the rock either with a man or hence a lhr as they are rumoured to go back into jer. All this from quite trust worthy folk from the industry...what has everyone else heard?
euromanxdude:cool:

[captainyonder]

I know bmi looked very closely at operating the EDI route last year but decided not to as they couldn't fly their ERJs full. Would this not also be the case into Manchester?

[skiddyiom]

It matters not who flies where, who handles who and what aircraft are used, the Engineering side of BA CON is on it's last legs. There WILL be redundancies and there WILL be people leaving the island because of it no matter what the Government, BA or Flybe say.

The old Manx/BRAL, BACX/BA Connect outfit is down to a paper airline with 8 RJ100's and no support whatsoever. BA CityFlyer will last just as long as BA are prepared to put up with the same inept managers running it as with the previous shows.

Gissajob!! :8

skiddy

[red17]

yeah skiddy thats true, at the end of the day there will be redundancies but at least the more airlines that do operate the more need there is for ground staff, BMI would be a good move, they have smart ac but its the problem of the ERJ's and IOM again....

[red17]

anything happened here recently?? its all gone quiet........

[Tinwald]

red, fella, thers loads going on here and some know exactly whats going to happen like that fella in commercial with the redtails but trouble is nobody is telling anybody which is unusual for us manxies. Got to be some moves made soon. The government is still harping on about the luton route closure but no takers who can blame them. Yessir, someones got to make a move cos those that don't may get caught out if some outsdiers decide to move in again.

[Ransman]

I'm sure you all remember, but the once great Manx Airlines was actually set up by a team from British Midland under orders from Mr Bishop, more than 20 years ago. Could it happen again? The twin Beech has been seen visiting the Island quite regularly.

[skiddyiom]

If anyone knows anything would they be so kind as to tell us mushrooms in the hangar as we know nuffink!!

Regular bulletins telling us bugger all and jolly communiques telling us who is jumping ship to City Flyer but nothing as to whats REALLY happening! :ugh:

skiddy

[smith]

http://www.gov.im/airport/enquiries/destinations.xml

What is Mayfly? From the IOM airport link, Mayfly, from Jan-March there seems to be an increased in movements during this period.

[Ronaldsway Radar]

Not another name for FlymayBe is it? Ha...
Think it's the calm before the inevitable storm here on fraggul.
RR

[virginblue]

Why don't you just access the link and find out that "Mayfly" is "flights that may fly", i.e. all the flights that have been co-ordinated for that period?

[Haven't a clue]

Wonder when they'll get round to acknowledging the demise of Emerald and replace the mail plane type currently shown in Mayfly as "HS748" with the "AN26" now doing the run.

(For those who have yet to investigate the links Mayfly is Ronaldsway's management's list of scheduled services planned each day)

[Hansol]

Ransman - Thanks a lot thats the best laugh I've had in ages "the once great Manx Airlines" - very funny :)

[oscarh]

Don't actually get the joke Hansol. Could you explain?
Thanks,
Oscar.

[Hansol]

Certainly. There is a certain amount of "rose tinted glasses" here on the Island where Manx Airlines are concerned. What people forget is that they were expensive, unreliable, and ultimately sold out to BA, resulting in the loss of the Heathrow route, and prompting the start of the fiasco in air services that we have today. They were never "great" they took advantage of their position, built a valuable product and sold out to the highest bidder. So lets not romantisize them, or turn them into something that they never were i.e a "Manx national airline". They employed a lot of Manx boys and girls, and ultimately most of them now find themselves working somewhere else. We can comfort ourselves by thinking that things would be different if Manx were still here today, but the truth is they would be just the same.

[Ransman]

Sold out to BA? i thought they had no choice, or the British Regional contract with BA would not be renewed? Also, were the Manx government not offered a controling share in Manx, but opted for the "Open Skies" policy?
Manx gave me great training, I learnt so much from the guys there.
I stand by my commment, "the once great Manx Airlines"

[Island Jockey]

Manx Airlines Ltd & British Regional Airlines Ltd were owned by British Regional Airlines plc, a listed Company on the UK stockmarket. The biggest regional Airline in Europe and the third biggest in the world ( at the time)

With their BA Franchise up for renewal - (bearing in mind that all of the UK based aircraft operated as a BA franchsie) 2003 ish. BA decided to purchase BRAL plc in June 2002 for £76m.

The BRAL plc Share holders must have decided that it would be better to sell than deal with the risk franchise not being renewed.

The new Company BA Citiexpress now included Manx Airlines Ltd / BRAL / Brymon & the Trojan horse BA Regional.

Although Manx Airlines Ltd continued to operate for 12 months the brand was discontinued by the new BRAL management team

The rest is history...............Trojan horse eats up everything, gets ill and gets put down. BA have cleaned house. ( regions)

[Capt. Horrendous]

Ransman, I agree about the greatness of Manx Airlines - sometimes you never realise what you had till it's gone - and sometimes not until it's come back again :ok: .

The immediate future of IOM air transport was certainly a topic of conversation amongst the 'old guard' at Winston's 'final farewell party' last week in Bristol, which incidentally was more like a Bob Marley concert than anything else (just what the old boy would have wanted:D ).

There'll be a few familiar voices on the RT from April.... let's wait and see what happens after then:) .

P.S. 'Skys' ??:=

[revik]

Clearly never had the doubtful privilege of completing ISS - those 'in the know' will know - 'Scruff' would have.

[TimS]

Hi capt H - sorry I could not get from UAE for Winston's farewell (I gather that many of you were more successful than me).

It still surprises me that so many people ask, on my occasional visits, when the real 'Manx Airlines' (and I really believe we acted as a 'National Airline' Hansol) is coming back.

Out of fairness, some of the current incumbents appear to be trying hard and applying more sense to the situation than previously (perhaps blame is better directed at Government than them) and are operating in a less opportune environment that was faced when setting up Manx Airlines in 1982 after many years of failing airlines and general recession.

Brgds

TimS

[airmail 1]

hi all on the iom,wonder if any one could answer me a question?am flying out on vlm in march and have just recived a mess saying flight time has been changed.been brought foward by 3hrs from lcy.does this aircraft now stay out there al day?as fly time back is now not untill 1600hrs.thank,s paul.........

[manx crab]

Looks like this is the case until the end of March anyway, plus there is a Sunday rotation

Its seems to have all gone quiet on Manx2's attempt to get to LHR or could BMI beat them to it?.

[gms1991]

Heard about EASA maybe grounding the Let410s from 27th March. This could mean a full intergration of aircraft from Let to Metro/BAe.

Lessor says that the hope lives on, and that the aircraft will be allowed to fly after this date!

I certainly hope so! IOM, BLK, LBA and BFS (not BHD) have been great to spot at because of the atleast twice daily flights to all of these airports!

Long live LET!:}

[Tinwald]

Fellas, I'm back from me hols. Flew off and on the Island with austrian airways (tee,hee), only joking you fellas at the redtails. Dead on time which is OK by me and my mates but no food and we were starving. Cuppas OK and the whisky and dry went down a treet but after the trip from hell something to eat would have been good - don't mind paying, you redtails.
So we get back to the snug to find out whats been going on and nowt. The redtails still are working those dashes. Nice and quiet but those seats look as if theyve been used at a kiddies party at la piazza - yuk! See that Manxy Too are getting with it with that online checkin. Must be some wizzkids working there in the PR department. Doing a good job as far as we can work out for what is a little operator. What about those poor blokes and girlies at Manx Regional not knowing whats happening, thats according to one of my mates in the other handlers who thinks theyve got the go ahead to work the BA flights if there are going to be any. Those toffee nosers might have to lower themselves but what a come down if its true - not to say theres nothing wrong with the supporters, top blokes and girlies all of them - and we heard it in the snug so it must be true. The redtails seem to be running on empty and we reckon theyre going to get left behind in what with everything else might happen here in avaitions Mecca.

Will report on any other skeat from the snug as soon as I can afford another pint.:ok:

[Snappybits]

Latest rumour is that BA Cityflyer is actively considering IOM/LCY anyone else heard this?

[EMX81L]

Welcome to the forum. This one has been mentioned a couple of times. Nothin has been said over here on the rock thou. The rumours doin the rounds are EMX and BE and whats goin to happen once everythin goes through....but back to the question.

EMX and VLM already serve LCY, and pretty much every month, pax figures are increasing slowly as you can see on the airport website. The advantage for BACF would be that they would use a nice RJ100, and businessmen like a nice shiney jet. If they do come onto the route, that would be 3 operators, which is too many, and someone would have to give.

VLM are changing their times shortly, and adding a sunday rotation. Risk for BACF i think, we will see what happens

[Snappybits]

Thanks for the welcome EMX81L and your reply...guess like everyone else we will have to wait and see.

[GMANX]

hello tinwald, i have heard the same thing, don't think regional are gonna get the handling but at the moment its anyones guess but i would imagine that whichever way it goes the others will be willing to take on some experienced and trained staff instead of newbies?? Just a thought.:hmm:

[Snappybits]

Anyone else heard that next Manx2 expansion is to do an IOM/LPL shuttle... apparently 8 to 10 flts per day with the Let or Metro???

[GMANX]

i haven't heard that one to be honest, would be interesting though. That is pretty much how EMX started out, with a beech 1900 to LPL a few times daily. Seemed to work though:)

[EMX81L]

Haven't heard that one around for a while. Last time was when they did the survey and it came second in the results.

Would give EMX a bit of competition if it happens. If they do want to do it, u could see another deal happen, like with EMX and RE, where RE come off the route, and EMX use their a/c. Deal for Manx2 could be if they stay off LPL, EMX could come off the BHD for example, just a thought :hmm:

[GMANX]

good thinking EMX81L, that also happened with emerald and EMX. EMX agreed to use the gemstones ATP if they came off the LPL. Appeared to do the trick at least for a while:rolleyes:

[red17]

would manx2 really settle for a deal though?? flight support / 3w already complaining that the manx2 online check in sign at the check in desk in IOM is advertising to their customers!! PATHETIC

[fredtheanorak]

Bit of competitiun on LPL woulnt' hurt:} Last time I wanted to come over at short notice BLK was full and LPL was over £100:uhoh: . Just cheked the Euro website and its over £100 for a Saturday day return:{ . Sorry boys, Im stayin in the bar here 2morrow:O

[nospeedrestriction9]

Lets all hope Manx2 start on LPL, they seem to be offering very low prices on Belfast City and the loads seem to be nearly full the last few times i've gone over.

Fingers crossed for a proper low cost a/l over to lpl!

:ok:

[JDB1052]

Don't kid yourself that Manx2 are a low cost airline - with only 19 seats to play with, it takes a lot of low fares to pay the trip costs of even a Liverpool Isle of Man flight. The extortionate £10 per departing passenger government tax doesn't apply to 19 seaters so they have a £20 return price advantage straight off, but don't expect every seat at £30 or whatever -the sums just don't add up.

Another operator on Liverpool would, once again, destabilise the market, just when it seemed to be getting some sense of normality, if you can ever use that phrase when talking about the Rock's aviation policy. Liverpool does not need a 19 seater jumping the puddle to undermine Euromanx, it needs stability and volume. I suspect Euromanx would drop their trousers on price just to see Manx2 off, plus add a few more daily flights. So best case, Manx2 win, Euromanx drop out, then what - Arran would simply keep their ATR on the rock and restart the route themselves, or another 60/70 seat carrier would be in like a rat up a drainpipe. . . ho hum, haven't we been there before . . .

[San Expiry]

Well put, JDB1052. I sometimes suspect that some of these manx2 posters are being paid to talk up that airline. Let's face the facts (and I'm not defending Euromanx here, because from what I hear from the Rock, they are starting to get a little too greedy on some of their fare pricing) manx2 are nothing more than a ticketing agency. Now, I use that emotive term purely because it was that charge that was used again and again against the credibility of the foundling Euromanx before the Seymours became involved. What was then an unusal arrangement (to the Manx) of wet leasing 'strange' aircraft (Beech 1900s) and non UK crews is now seen as normal so the manx2 arrangment now goes by with hardly a whimper. Quite rightly so, but don't forget that manx2's committment to the Island is not exactly massive despite what its very glossy PR machine might like to suggest. It has found a niche market and provides a better service (to and from Blackpool) than was previously provided. But in the turmoil of Manx aviation they are bit players at present and will need a lot more finance to expand as some of their 'supporters' would like to see.

[jet2_at_blk]

Totally agree with what you are both saying, but LPL is the busiest route from the Island. Why can MAN have 2 operators and not LPL?

Man2 have proved that decent fares and high frequencies are what they need. Operating 8 return flights per day would suit the business community better than twice daily on a larger aircraft. Better frequencies attract more passengers. They are not for getting on a plane for a nice meal and relaxation. They have to get from A to B to do their job.

Yes, Manx2 would need more capital injection, but I think they have the right idea of frequency over volume.

Don't understand why LPL can't have a 2nd airline, like MAN, BHD and LCY? Manx2 are taking it to Euromanx!

If Euromanx were to set up shop in LPL, then I don't suspect Manx2 would be interested.

[TechProblem]

The only reason Man has two operaters is that BA offer a transfer system between flights, where as Euromanx don't. I.E. you can buy a ticket with BA and SA or VS and book your bags through, with Lpl being a lowcost airport the transfer system is not used.

Once BA connect go, not to sure if there will be 2 operaters into Man anymore because EMX and BE seem to be very close atm....

[jet2_at_blk]

This will surely mean increased demand then?

Surely not all BA passengers are on connections to EU or US from MAN.

Will EMX have to increase their flights?

[Tinwald]

Fellas - the word in the snug is that wether or not this BACON takeover comes off or not they are history and thers bound to be people who won't be tied to them now there gone so will use any airline and that the Redtails haven't got the seats to take any overspill. Still no news from my mates down the hangar so it looks as if those poor devils are on a one way trip to the job center and manx regional must be pretty shaky too if Bretts mob have got the contract which Im assured is true.

[manx crab]

You have to hope there will be competition to Manchester.
Having checked weekends in August a couple of days ago and in every case EMX were more expensive that BACON, sometimes massively so.

Of course this may be due to not many booking with BACON as no one seems to know what the :mad: is happening yet.

[jet2_at_blk]

Fly Manx2 to BLK then.

1. Alot easier to pass through than MAN
2. Cheaper than EMX
3. Fly the COOL Let410!:D

[Wellington Bomber]

Jet2 Blk

Let 410 COOL

You mean they leave the doors open then, that must be the only reason they are cool.

[manx crab]

Any news on who gets the handling contract ?

[jet2_at_blk]

Looks like BE are to be upsetting EMX and EZE!

BE announce the continuation of the ex BACON route to MAN, which I am sure will not go down well with EMX!

They have also announced a new route to SOU, which will be working in direct competition with EZE, all but a fraction of the latter's price.

LGW will also be continued from IOM from the BACON route.

Don't know what aircraft will be operating these routes, my guess Q400s. Could this mean based BE a/c?

Also, don't know any of the schedules yet.

Good news for IOM!!:D

[EMX81L]

LGW will remain at 4 flights mon-fri on a IOM based 146-300 i believe, if not, it will be the currently based 146-100 with i think 3 on saturday and sunday.

MAN will be taken down from 5 to 4 flights mon-fri, losing the lunchtime service, again with slightly different frequencies of a weekend. This will be operated on an IOM based EMB145.

With SOU, not sure but it might well be 2 flights a day i think, with a SOU based Q400 or EMB145

[jet2_at_blk]

I'm guessing that when these aircraft are replaced it will be a E195 on the LGW and Q400 on the remaining?

[EMX81L]

If flybe stick around and make another good go at the IOM again, then yeah, EMB195 and the Q400 would be based once they have finished replacing the old with the new

[Hansol]

Interesting. Not sure about the 145 on Manchester though, I think the 400 would make more sense then a Jet operation. The question of the handling contact is a big one, if its goes to Flight Support (which I suspect it has) then it must be the end for Manx Regional who I understand are making nothing on the Lets. Emx have other fish to fry and will probably suprise everyone with there next development.

[fredtheanorak]

I hope you guys speckulating about Manx Regional are wide of beam cos if you stick FLIGHT SUPPORT:E into search and read the latest :mad: the conclusiun is that they wont' be arownd eyther.:{ All airports need 2 decent handling agents and at BLK we don't even hav 1 -but it mite soon change:D :D :D

[EMX81L]

If you look at the basing plan on Flybe's Next Gen website, you will see the basing plan for the whole fleet come the end of march. We have been told we have a EMB145 and a 146-300 based on the Island.

Euromanx have got a few things planned

There will be some changes on the IOM this summer, watch this space!

Onto the handling contract. The contract has been signed, and has been for 6-8weeks. Hansol might well be right :cool:

[red17]

Don't be so sure its the end of Manx Regional. They to have a few things planned no doubt, as do eastern, and manx regional have the eastern contract.:=

[EMX81L]

Red17 - dont get me wrong i didn't say it was the end of Manx Regional. There are some good ppl who work for them indeed.

Will be a busy summer for everyone involved in the handling on the IOM which is excellent :ok:

[Powerjet1]

Surely a daily IOM-LTN might be possible by say Euromanx, following the demise of Aer Arann on the route. Past pax figs would tend to confirm this.

[treaclecat]

If this so called contract for handling has been signed all this time why has it not been made public knowledge yet and then it would put an end to all this rumour mongering on the island. FS managers are not normally so slow at making announcements and swanning around with big grins on their faces looking like the cat that has got the cream.

[fredtheanorak]

You got the wrong end of the stik EMX81. My point was that airports' need 2 handlers. I certenly wasnt' about to get involved with the :mad: cr$p on the handling thred . Long live ManxRegional AND FS. :D :D IOM needs both:ok:

[EMX81L]

fredtheanorak - Yeah i see where you are comin from now, sorry about that :O

I dont think airport would want the airport to have one agent anyway, 2 at least is the way forward indeed

[manx crab]

Presumably Manx Regional have a contract with Bacon already and this will no doubt have a notice period which will have to be worked so things could not change overnight.

[fredtheanorak]

meenwhile it seams Mr French has £30m of pensiun money and £96m of BAs' cash burning a hole in his pockit so I suss he can affoard a bit of a compensatiun fund. :hmm: I hope a wodge of this is going the way of MR & the guys in the hangars?:bored:

[part69]

Flight support have the contract and its up the the Manx Regional bosses to let there staff know. They should have let their staff know by now tho.:mad:

[skiddyiom]

I think you'll find that as soon as the "at risk" letter arrives, many, many people will be out of here like s**t off a shovel! Too much delay and not enough information. Me being one of them!!

If the hangars survives to August like Flybe think it will, it will be a miracle!! If it lasts to TT I would be surprised!

Treaclecat, if they know it's a done deal, why don't you know? Another company with inefficient, ineffectual management. Still, you could always go to FS and take a pay cut!

skiddy

[treaclecat]

skiddyiom
You know and I know that management only tell you what they want you to hear as for FS if they were paying the money they would be my choice if I lost a job that I really enjoy with a good team that work well together but FS dont pay the money sadly and I still have a job at the moment anyway - I hope

[manxramptramp]

FS are a dedicated bunch at IOM. Ok the pay may not be as much as most ground handlers, but they do the job to their best of their abilities and they are as keen as mustard. Keep it up FS!:D

[PAXboy]

Arrived on the 16:10 from LGW - because there is no LTN :* - and just wanted to say that the ground staff standing in the rain to guide pax around the temporary barriers were brilliant. Good humoured in the pouring rain and strong wind.

Also, a big :ok: for the fabbo landing in G-MABR. I do not know how much the wind was across the beam but, as we crossed the threshold, it was obvious that we were crabbing. After a descent that was pretty bumpy, we floated along and the touch down was sooooo smooth and I could not sense the moment that he straigtened out. I guess that some of it would have been in the last 20 vertical feet and some of it in the first 20 horizontal feet! What a delight - it was so beautifully done that it just made me smile.

[red17]

The G-MABR landing sounds a little bit better than EMX's 3W810 last night. Was as bumpy as sh:mad: t!! Suprised they found the runway to be honest! LOL. Full marks to the flight attendant though for serving everyone and cleaning up even though it was a bit bumpy.;)

[PAXboy]

Today's edition (9th March) of Manx Independent carries the news of the the engineering base being closed on page 3.

It covers the whole BA/Flybe thing and reports how the announcement of the direct SOU link sounded good but when pax rang to book - the Flybe call centre did not know about the route and it was not on their system - despite having been publicy announced. So it sounds like SOP for British management.

The SOU route is said to be bookable from this weekend and start 25 March. They also mention, again, "New routes to EDI, GLA, NWI and EXE could follow". LTN is not mentioned and note could follow, so that sounds like marketing speak.

[virginblue]

IOM-SOU can already be booked from 33.49 GBP incl.

[treaclecat]

Ive just booked a IOM-LGW rtn flight on the FlyBe website and have saved myself about £40 on what I would have paid fot the same flights on the BA site. The only thing the punters on the IOM are not going to like is haveing to pay for pre booking a seat if they want one as they are so used to just getting what they want at no extra cost. I prepaid for my baggage to make a saving so watch out all you passengers that have given the staff at Manx Regional a hard time this last couple of weeks because BA baggage policies have changed and you have had to pay for extra bags with Flybe you will have to pay for every bag not just your excess ones. Things are certainly going to change over the next few weeks for everyone both staff and passengers alike. Good luck to MR and FS staff I think its going to be a bit of a bumpy ride for a while

[Ayline]

The Flybe take over is not all good news. I am flying from Guernsey to the Isle of Man in May. I could have flown direct from Guernsey with Blue Islands but, as I need to stop off in Manchester on the way, I needed to book a MAN-IOM return flight. I selected the flights on the BA website on the day of the take over. Rather than book and later find that the flight would be re-scheduled by Flybe, I waited until the flights were transferred to the Flybe website. The cost of the MAN-IOM return flight following the transfer to Flybe increased from £90 to £163.98 (and that's before paying for bags). Having looked at the alternatives with Flybe, which all seemed expensive, I have now booked a Euromanx flight for £88 return. Even that is expensive compared to the £68.30 return fare charged by Aurigny Air Serivces to fly from Guernsey to Manchester. Anyway I am pleased, I am flying GCI-IOM for £156 return which works out about £8 less than the Flybe MAN-IOM flight. I appreciate that flights increase in cost as the seats are sold but an £84 increase overnight seems excessive especially when most of the flights on other days were nearly as much. I came across single fares on the Flybe site as much as £91.44.

[TechProblem]

What you dont have now Ayline is a Transfer service, with FlyBe all the way to GCI you wouldn't have to pick you bags up, or re-check-in.
As far as im aware FlyBe are flying to GCI out of MAN.

[skiddyiom]

Flybe operate point-to-point, which as far as I am aware, means that you cannot check your bags all the way through. You have to rcover them at MAN and check them in again for the IOM.

skiddy

[Snappybits]

It's it is Flybe to Flybe GCI/MAN/IOM you should be able to interline baggage...but if doing MAN/IOM sector with EMX then you won't be able to interline

[TechProblem]

That is what i was getting at, cheers Snappy.

[Ayline]

Thank you for your comments. Flybe GCI-MAN is not an option for me as the Flybe service doesn't start until the end of May. Also Flybe will only be operating a midday service whereas Aurigny operate morning and evening which gives better options for onward transfers.

[fredtheanorak]

Hey Ayline not only is your post under the wrong airline and should be under FlyMayBe or Aurigny:uhoh: but with a name that happens to be the same as Aurigny's call sign, and a GCI base shuldnt' you declare an intrest before slaggin off others?:*

[Ayline]

fredtheanorak, my post was about the cost of getting to the Isle of Man since the take over of BA Connect and was simply following on from a previous post which was also about the cost of air travel to the IOM. I have no interest to declare as I have no connection with Aurigny which in fact is state owned. I have just happen to live in Guernsey and chose to use the callsign of the local airline for my username. I could have chosen the username "Jersey" as Flybe also operate out of Guernsey. I am sure that the IOM is no different to Guernsey - people are always complaining about the cost of airfares to Guernsey.

[Flybeeeee]

In my experience people from the Channel Islands complain about everything! not just fares!!:rolleyes:
(And that impression was gained prior to working in aviation)

What CI residents need to understand is that as they are on islands, the demand for air travel to mainland UK will be high. Therefore any airline with any hope of gaining profit will operate a fare structure which will focus on availability.....in other words the more people booked the higher the fare will be. What I don't understand is if everyone is so skint in the C/I (Bearing in mind they do not pay tax like the rest of us here!) that they cannot afford the air fares, why not use the ferry? why travel by air? why live on an island where the only form of quick transportation is by air??? (My own opinion which no doubt will be criticised but hey ho)

[manx crab]

Not scientific I know, but on a random weekend in July (20th) flying from Man on the last flight out on a Friday returning on the last flight Sunday the Flybe fares varied like this : £30 RTN to GLA, GCI £81, JER £119, and IOM £144.

Don't suggest we use the ferry as we only have one left now :E

[Flybeeeee]

Hi Manx Crab

Sorry the ferry idea was for CI peeps......judging by your name I would say you were from IOM.

The fares, as explained before, are subject to availability. Occasionally, people seem to get confused in including the taxes under the term 'fare'....this is incorrect. The base fare goes to the airline whereby the rest is pocketed by either Government or the airports. I understand £144.00 is alot to go to the IOM but I guess that is the place to be - seems everyone is trying to get there ;)

[manx crab]

Most of us are trying to escape:).
We Manxies can moan with the best of them and I know there is a premium to pay for living on an island but it is annoying when you see that GLA and EDI have a base fare of £0 and we have to pay a base fare of £86.

Even allowing for the extortionate charges at IOM it is still a lot more. Still once Cameron gets his taxes going everyone will be paying more.

[Flybeeeee]

I genuinly do not understand the logic behind Cameron's rediculous idea - I know its another issue really but what the hey, lets have a moan....he wants to charge frequent flyers more in tax. Frequent Flyers according to Camzy are defined as someone who flies over 2000 miles. Technically that means someone who has never flown before will be charged a lot more because they go on a once in a lifetime trip to Florida or something - you can see the intelligence flowing from David :D

[nav3]

Manx crab / any other manxpeople

If you had the possibility, which new routes would you suggest could be developed from IOM / Blackpool / Belfast ?

[fredtheanorak]

BLK ABZ(Oil & gas) and BLK SOU or BOH
IOM AMS and IOM EXT or OXF
BHD/BFS to most East european destinatiuns:D
IOM to anywhere sunny in Europe with A319

[red17]

Probably IOM - EMA AND LPL

BLK - GLA or EDI

[Tinwald]

Me and the fellas would go with IOM to anywhere sunny in Europe with A319 or anything that would get there faster than those prop jobs. That London flight doesn't half drag on and on. Anyway, we know loads of people with pads down in the south of spain and if the redtails couldn't fill up the passengers on fraggle stop off on the way like Jersey. I'll bet those channel islanders would be off to sunny spain in the shake of a sombrero.:ok:

[Flybeeeee]

Well Jersey has regular flight to and from Madeira and also in the summer flights to Palma and Tenerife..........

Surely there would be some demand for IOM flights to these sort of places. Don't AEU and KM do adhoc charters to and from IOM - Could have sworn I have seen a Malta IOM on the Malta arrivals and departures board before.

[Tinwald]

Yep your darned right and filled to overflowing every flight and not cheap neither.

red17 fella, me and the fellas want to know whose axe your grinding cos we reckon youve got it in for the redatails.

[EI-BUD]

I think IOM to Derry (LDY-city of Derry) could do well on a daily sortie. A let410 in my view would be a good size aircraft to develop the route. There are good frequencies on Belfast to IOM routes, and a proportion of this is bound to be heading towards West of Ulster. What does anyone else think?

Surely, If Knock in the west of Ireland can support a few weekly flights to places like Lanzarote, Faro etc, with such limited population surely IOM can too. However, airlines are unlikely to invest in this type of market where the population is so small. If there is a good travel agent on the Island perhaps it can charter flights with companies such as Astraeus or flightline? And they would also have a good handle on where the demand is ?

I understand that Manx2 are looking at Oxford and Gloucester for new routes from the Island. They are also keeping their eye on routes from the IOM that they think need 2 daily flights eg BRS,GLA etc.

According to a member of the airline manangement they are also going to open 1 route that is not from the IOM.
They have said that apart from this they are 100% focused on routes from the IOM only.Certainly for 2007 at least.

Any suggestions what this may be ?
EI-BUD

[Hansol]

I think M2 are correct and that most of the future expansion by IOM airlines will be from places other then the IOM (Redtails included), but its a risky business (financially) basing or positioning in an aircraft smewhere else.

[fredtheanorak]

Not sure Gloucster can take the Metro and woulnt fancy it in a L410. Can the J31 get in thereOK Public Cat?:confused:

[JDB1052]

Gloucster is wll capable of anything M2 might throw at - it had an Arran ATR72 a few weeks back for a race meeting at Cheltenham and no doubt a few big ones this week for the race festival.

[red17]

Red17 doesn't have a problem as such with the redtails...
At the end of the day its all good. Just don't be so sure that 3W and FS will take over IOM ;) :ok:

[Grand yahoo]

With the aviation experts on this thread I am surprised that they have not started their own airline.
With all this information on how it should not be done investors will be desparate to give them £10m to get it right.
Just think low fares, B737s or A319s slots at LHR and LGW, joining every dot on the UK and EU map from IOM ...how could it fail!
:hmm:

[jet2_at_blk]

Manx2's 'secondary' base seems to be at Blk, as there will be 4 daily flight from IOM this summer. Could this be a carry on from an IOM-BLK route?

Such as:

IOM-BLK-GLS
IOM-BLK-EDI
IOM-BLK-ABZ?

Time will tell, but certainly showing that M2 are prepared to go that extra distance to provide their customers with the right service!:D Especially now with the new Metro in M2 colours and the £26 fares to BLK and BFS/BHD!

[fredtheanorak]

one of there FOs told me Manx2 are going to 5 a day IOM BLK on some days' and 6 a day in June:bored: :bored: .

[jet2_at_blk]

Frequency over volume. That has been the success of the airline, and has made them no.1 on the Belfast routes.

If this is true, we could see a based plane at BLK. Could this be the operator that has been talked about in the BLK forum over the past few months? This could certainly show where the new external route will base from....:ooh:


M2 website currently showing for late July onwards:

Mon-Thu x4 daily (current Fri schedule)
Fri x5 daily (current Fri schedule with addition of 19:35-19:50 turnaround in BLK)
Sat x3 daily (Current Mon and Thu schedule)
Sun x2 daily (remains at current schedule)

This means:
26 return flights per week
884/988 seats per week (depending on config of 17/19 seats)!

Looking good for M2!:D

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, M2 operating 5 flights on this Friday only. Yet only to IOM. Is this a delivery flight? Leaves BLK 10 mins after normal scheuduled departure (12.00 and 11.50)? Anybody know what for?

[EI-BUD]

I was thinking that a Balckpool-Jersey flight could be on the cards?? This was a route that Manx Airlines used to do in the 90's & 80's. G-OJET used to fly DUB IOM BLK JER BLK IOM DUB!!

Needless to say Just because JE did it doesnt mean M2 would. But I think that Jersey airport will be very active in trying to win new business and perhaps a small aircraft could do well on this route? What does anyone else think.

[Hansol]

Grand yahoo .. make it 100 million and we might have a chance on the iom:)

[skiddyiom]

Could be a charter, the extra BLK flight on Friday, Jet 2. Maybe treaclecat could find out for us?

Incidentally, I flew IOM-BLK-IOM yesterday and found it good! Despite the Let being somewhat basic the flight was smooth and quick. The other airlines on the island could well take some tips from Manx2. And we had an English F/O on the way back. Nice to see.

Skiddy

[fredtheanorak]

FlyMayBe adding 3rd based aircraft on Fraggle in OCT do double daily BHX and LPL. :eek: :eek: You herd it here first:ok: ;)

[fredtheanorak]

when BA reapear as CitiFlyer out of LCY with there 146 life will be almost back to normal for MRegional. :hmm:
Loganscare are looking to improve there awful EDI/GLA timings :eek: and Manx2 are ading flights all the time.:cool: . Glad I won't be checkin in at Frazzle 0630 on 25th. 2 MANs and LGW all at the same time:ooh: FS will hav there work cut out to sort that lot:ooh: :ooh:

[captainyonder]

I heard mummerings the other day of a new 'airline' looking to start flying between IOM and PIK twice daily using a 9 seat aircraft? Anyone else heard this? It's not BNWA back from the grave is it?

[treaclecat]

RED 17

Not everything is always as it seems or as it is rumoured, things sometimes have a habit of changing at the last minute.

We all wish FS check in and despatch staff the best of luck for next week-end because something tells me that they well may need every bit of luck they can get not only with the handling of the new flights but on a day when the clocks change too after all they dont usually get up that early on a Sunday!!!!!

Skid

Those extra Manx 2 flights were charters and good for Manx 2 they were full!!! More to come too I believe.

[red17]

That wasn't a sarcastic good luck! seriously fair play to flight support, they have grown quickly. :cool:. They are well capable of handling FlyBe to MAN an LGW. Things will improve for Manx Regional, will just take time to see how.

[Hansol]

Do you really think Manx Regional can continue to exist ? They look dead in the water to me. Good luck to everyone involved.

[fredtheanorak]

yeah, theyve always looked after me good when ive past through. :D With only one handler you end up like us in BLK:( . Not recomended:{ :{ :{ Long live sensible competitiun.:ok:

[Hansol]

Anyone know why the airport is taking so long to issue its pax figures this month ? I have been told its down to staff sickness, but thats a bit of a lame excuse, is the new director having second thoughts about making the numbers public perhaps. Come on guys get your finger out !

[treaclecat]

Red 17
I wasnt being sarcastic at all I do wish FS all the best and the staff of MR too its not going to be easy for any of them over the next few weeks, two handling agents in competition with each other handling the same flights could cause problems but I know the staff of both companies are not interested in the politics of who has the contracts all they are interested in is making sure the job is done efficiently and proffessionally. MR are very proffessional and will work hard to make the transition period as easy as possible for everyone concerned and I would like to think FS are going to do the same.
Hansol
Strange how things change isnt it only a few months ago FS were in deep trouble and everyone was prepared to criticise them now its the turn of MR its the old saying "Lets kick people while they are down" rearing its ugly head again. Lets all just stop sniping at each other and get on with the job

[red17]

treaclecat, It wasn't meant to sound like you were being sarcastic, in my post i wished luck to flight support and it sounded like you though I was being sarcastic.... but anyway. You are right it will be strange to see the same flights handled by two seperate companies. Flight Suport have come through their rough patch and I am sure Manx Regional will do the same. :ok:

[treaclecat]

Thanks RED 17
Im sure MR and FS will weather whatever storms are approaching and will probably come out better handlers for it. Bring it on!!! (whtever it is )

[fredtheanorak]

any of you on Fraggle add anything to the Eastern cuddling up with Loganair rumor:confused: Could give a second based J41 out there:ok:

[part69]

Fred
STOP MAKING THINGS UP its really starting to annoy me and probably most of the other readers on the IOM threds:mad:

[mmeteesside]

Things don't sound too good for Eastern on the IOM anyway, heard somewhere that the 3 routes they currently operate will be pulled soon.

[Island Jockey]

I think the harmful speculation needs to stop together with the posts that are pure fiction.

These are volatile times but anyone who has worked in this business will tell you this is normal.

Some recent posts have been well below the belt.

Read the PPrune rules on what you should and should not post.

No I am not a Mod.

[fredtheanorak]

Hey part69 you should look on the Eastern 2007 thred where the rumor started a few days back:ooh: see below

18th March 2007, 21:35 #18 (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3185045&postcount=18) GW76 (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=74178)

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 224
Whispers of Eastern taking over Loganair



:ooh: What do you make of FlyMayBEE going up to 5 a day on MAN to start a manx price war with the Red tails:{ .. and thats' no rumor:D

[Hansol]

There is simply not enough business on MAN for 5 a day, where did you see the Flybe announcement about this?

[Wellington Bomber]

mmeteesside

Did you hear about Eastern at school then. Routes are doing fine from and to Fraggle why would they pull out. I would envisage the opposite happening, they are just watching all the others pull each other to bits and waiting on the touchline to step in

[Tinwald]

Wellington, fella, routes are doing so well to and from Fraggle that the Southampton route has been stopped in the summer. :=

[nav3]

That is confirmed. I tried to book for the 15th June but the route appears to stop on Sunday 10th June.....now what ?

[fredtheanorak]

Nav3, after TT youl have to pay your money to Mr French & Co:uhoh: they are runnin a paralel timetable to the Eastern one so I think Eastern have done the sensibul thing in canning it after June:\ Q400 vs J41 is no contest:8

Hansol - FlyMayBe's 5 a day MAN IOM is bookable on there website. :O Watch out redtails, FlyMayBes gunning for you:E

[nav3]

Sorry Fred, I am a bit thick. do you mean FlyBe are starting on the route /and /or taking it over from Eastern ?

[Capt. Horrendous]

The Flybe BHX-IOM-BHX rotation is switching from the Q400 to the Embraer 145 from this week.

[airhumberside]

What routes could Eastern be interested in out of IOM. 3W/BE have MAN covered, 3W have LPL covered and from what has happenned in the past the route can sustain only one operator. Manx2 have Belfast and Blackpool covered and Aer Arann Dublin, so what new routes could Eastern start?

[manx crab]

So lets get this straight, Flybe :mad: off a load of passengers by canceling the 5th Man rotation a few weeks ago and now magically put it back on again. Great PR exercise and forward planning. Anyway looking at the fares they are charging to Man I do not think they are really after EMX.

No doubt we will have the usual IOM situation of both firms losing money for a while with half empty aircraft before some sort of arrangement is made. There is absolutely no way 9 rotations to Man are viable.

If it came to a proper fares war my money would be on the one with the deepest pockets which is ....

[exconnected]

Well, the farce continues, with Regional sharing the handling of Flybe with Flight Support. Seems that despite the obvious flaws in having one handler check your pax in and another do the loading etc, they still went ahead.

And now they can't even decide on the rules!! It's dire for the staff on both sides who are being led by egotistical fools trying to score points. Does nowt for pax confidence and less for the airport efficiency.

Get a grip you management guys and sort this out before more people lose their livelihoods and the pax get screwed rotten!! Either Regional are handling to June or Flight Support are.

[fredtheanorak]

:confused: well excon, were you right this morn. I se from the IOM online arrivals Fly MayBe are all over the show with delays but red tails and Manx2 running on time:sad: was it chaos on Fraggle today or are the MAN and LGW delays for other reasons:( :bored:

[virginblue]

I flew out on the LGW 1050 on Saturday (which was the second but last BA departure to LGW) and was hoping to sample my first BAe 146-100. To my horror, first G-GNTZ positioned in empty, but I was slightly relieved when G-MABR arrived a couple of minutes afterwards from LGW and spat out 25 or so pax. My hopes for the -100 were squashed, however, when G-MABR left empty a short while later and we boarded - a very full - G-GNTZ for LGW.

What was the story behind this aircraft change and this expensive positioning of the two 146s to and from the rock? Has G-GNTZ taken over the LGW runs and G-MABR already stood down by Flybe or was it just a one-off because the -200 was fully booked ? I noted that all the manuals etc. visible in the cockpit of G-GNTZ were plastered with the Flybe logo all over.

[exconnected]

My sources tell me that BR is now grounded and will be soon disposed of, as will the remaining 146's.

TZ did both the Gatwick AND the Manchester this morning, the early MAN being cancelled and all pax put on to the later departure.

Doesn't bode well, no sir, not at all! Captain Chaos has the reins and is running unchecked and berserk all over the place!! :{

Bring back the ATP's and G-MIMA!!

[manx crab]

If my memory is correct, then GNTZ carries the same slf's as MABR. Maybe MABR has gone back to what it should have been, a spare aircraft.

exconnected : when you say the early Man flight I take it you mean the 10.00 as there is no early Sunday Man anymore:{.

I suppose some chaos was to be expected but you would not want to be traveling tomorrow with a tight connection to make at LGW or MAN. The queues at FS should be interesting as well.

[virginblue]

G-GNTZ has, if memory serves, 80 seats 2+3. The flight I was on carried 75 pax, but probably 2/3 students on a school trip.

When will the 146 replace by the Q400 ? I cannot find FlyBE's based aircraft overview any longer...

[manx crab]

virginblue

Dec'07 was the last basing plan on the flybe site, I have just checked and it is still on there.

[Haven't a clue]

virgin blue:

and was hoping to sample my first BAe 146-100

Are you mad?? Small, cramped, stupidly small overhead bins.... I remember Manx Airlines 146-100 G-OJET as being a similar nightmare.

manx crab:

I suppose some chaos was to be expected but you would not want to be traveling tomorrow with a tight connection to make at LGW or MAN. The queues at FS should be interesting as well.

I am travelling tomorrow with two kids and Mrs Hac. No connection to make though, thank goodness. Checked in on-line, printed our boarding passes and will be travelling with hand baggage. Should miss the queues. Let's hope LGW baggage belts are now working so no delays.....please?


Seriously though I have been cynical as regards this FlyBe/BaCon tie up. Spoilt rotten by BA's ba.com service. Tried FlyBe's online booking and check-in and thus far am very impressed. Perhaps they will keep my business after all. Still not sure about LGW South though.....

[EMX81L]

Virginblue: You are quite correct. GGNTZ has 80 seats, however it is restricted to 79 when running a 2/3 crew, as it doesn't have a third cabin crew seat, therefore a pax seat is used for the crew. GMANS is meant to be replacing TZ but not to sure when.

Regarding the 'new Flybe', there have been many teething problems all over the network, it is to be expected. Having spoken to the newly acquired BAconnect crew they are in good spirts. If the deal was completed when it was meant to be, many of the problems wouldn't have happened today

[Island Jockey]

'You are quite correct. GGNTZ has 80 seats, however it is restricted to 79 when running a 2/3 crew, as it doesn't have a third cabin crew seat, therefore a pax seat is used for the crew. GMANS is meant to be replacing TZ but not to sure when.@

NS & TZ are in a 3x2 82 seat config rather than the 3x3 95 for these 200s

For cabin staff the min requirement is x 1 for 20 up to 50 pax, x 2 up to 99 and x 3 thereafter.

[EMX81L]

very strange indeed. When i was pre-seating pax the other day on the system for TZ, there were only 80 seats (16 rows of 5) on the seat map. 80 seats in the APS weights / seating plans, and also told 80 by Flybe, and 79Y when running 2/3 crew.

[red17]

Exconnected, straight to the point and unfortunately what most people from FS and MR now think. The problems of yesterday had more to do with FlyBe being so unorganised. From what I understand the required paperwork, manuals etc were in MAN, not IOM... then there was the crew for the embraer to MAN who were in MAN.. this meant TZ operating the 1000 MAN service when it finally returned from LGW. The Embraer captain was in BHX and arrived on the inbound BE BHX flight. After this everything was delayed for around 1 - 3 hours.

It was a total mess up for their first day. To be fair problems were always going to happen but this is probably as bad as it could have been. Flight Support and Manx Regional staff made the best out of what was a bad day for the passengers. The MANAGEMENT from both companies have a lot to answer for though, going back on previous agreements on which company was responsible for what. Flight Support wanted the front of house work but as soon as the :mad: hit the fan their management tried to dump it on Manx Regional - whos management was only to happy to ACCEPT. Exconn your right, the management of both firms - egotistical fools trying to score points, at the expense and reputation of their staff.

I can tell you one thing for sure, the morale and motivation of staff at Manx Regional is going from bad to worse, its time to tell the truth and let people know what is going on.

[virginblue]

EMX81L / Island Jockey:

GNTZ has 16 rows including a row 13, that makes it 80. There is no row 17. There is, however, some equipment installed on the "2" side behind row 16 and with removing that stuff, whatever it is, and some squeezing it might be possible to add another two seats - so possibly you both are correct.

The flight, by the way, was operated with two F/A despite having a LF of 94%.

[treaclecat]

As can be seen from above their have been more than enough problems to deal with over the last 2 days but a big WELL DONE to FS and MR staff because under VERY difficult circumstances they have all done really well. Its not easy for 2 companies in competition for handling to have to work as one unit but give the staff of both sides credit they have proved in difficult circumstances it can be done and over the next few days now that some of the initial problems have been sorted things can only get better. Perhaps the management should get together at the end of this and throw both sides a bit of a joint party!!!!! As for the morale at MR, of course people are feeling down in the dumps some of the staff from MR have handled the LGW and MAN flights for a very long time and maybe if some of you thought your jobs were at risk your morale would be a bit low too.

[manx crab]

Is this somewhat strange ground arrangement due to Flybe having an existing contract with FS and BACON having one with MR ?.

It must be really hard on both sets of staff especially if anything goes wrong as the blame will always be passed to the other party.

Has MABR gone for good:) or is it going to resurface at a later date:{

[Snappybits]

Yep MABR is off to OZ to become a fisheries observation aircraft.

[rockjock]

QUOTE]a big WELL DONE to FS and MR staff because under VERY difficult circumstances they have all done really well.[/QUOTE]

I'd add the airport police too. As I was transiting the baggage hall last night it was the POLICE who were standing on the baggage carousel shouting at the Gatwick passengers to leave the baggage area as no bags had been loaded at LGW. FS staff appeared to be cowering in the background at the thought of a SLF backlash.

[San Expiry]

Oooh Err Missus! Then yesterday didn't get off to a great start then?

MC. BACON is no more. It is deceased. It is an ex airline. :{ for some:ok: for others.

[Air Badger]

Oooh Err Missus! Then yesterday didn't get off to a great start then?

MC. BACON is no more. It is deceased. It is an ex airline. :{ for some:ok: for others.A lot of people say a lot of bad things about BA Connect, but I think they'll be missed here on the island. Especially when the big business men are asked to pay for bags, the exec club members told to 'slum it' in the public lounge, and pax with connections not being able to interline bags.

Anyone know what's happening with the lounge? Is that now Flybe's long term? If not there may be a gap for someone like eastern to do some flights dedicated to the businessman? Can't see it happening though :bored:

[Hansol]

Lounge ha ha :) my lounge at home is bigger. Let them mix in with the rest of us. I've never understood why anyone would chose to sit in that little box :)

[skiddyiom]

Just to exacerbate the complete depression on the airport, the BA CON hangar can't work because they no longer have JAR 145 approval. Now, wouldn't you have thought someone might have thought about that BEFORE the take over?

One nice shiny Barbie Jet sat forlorn and unworked. Any takers? :{

skiddy

[red17]

exconnected you make a fair point, why my post from yesterday was deleted I don't know. Its harsh to blame Manx Regional and Flight Support for the problems on Sunday. One way or another most of it was down to FlyMayBe and their planning skills! Both handling agents did their best. The staff more so, the management spent the day running round trying to 'develop' their reputation. All i'm saying is that morale at Manx Regional has been damaged and it will take a hell of a lot to repair it - thats if it can even be repaired! The management have got a lot to answer for. Anyone know what its like inside flight support right now?

[San Expiry]

Oooh Err Missus! Looks like another bad day on the Gatwick line.:{

[JobsaGoodun]

I think when you actually look at what has happened in the last few days, things appear to have gone very well. Flybe has gone from operating approx 280 flights per day to 450 overnight. It was never going to happen seamlessly.

Sunday was always going to see delays as crews were using new systems with which to obtain flightplans/duties etc. Delays were likely and did occur
Monday was better and operated well
Tuesdays delays were due to technical problems and the staff told me that spare parts had to come from the mainland - no ones fault!!

Let's give it a week or so and then make judgement. This was a massive task .... neither company was small prior to the acquisition, but Flybe now have serious critical mass in many areas in which they operate which can only be good.

[Capt. Horrendous]

The LGW probs yesterday were resultant from the 146 going tech on taxi for the first flight of the day. A hydraulic leak.

G-JEBB subbed in on one rotation whilst spares were en-route from BRS.

[Haven't a clue]

Capt. Horrendous

Thanks for telling me the reason for yesterday's delay. Unlucky to suffer both LGW baggage and a tech problem in he first three days.

JobsaGoodun

Your suggestion of waiting a week to let things settle down is sensible. But to the travelling public (= me!) damage has been done.

Let's hope there are no more gremlins waiting to pounce!:ok:

[manxbudgie]

I travelled out yesterday on the delayed LGW which was combined with a later flight on a FlyBe aircraft. The FS staff at check in were doing a great job under extreme pressure on what seemed like a system that was very slow and not doing them any favours, then when we got to the gate the departure lounge staff from the other company MR were having to check 97 people off a very long print out as there are no boarding card readers for the FLYBe flights, seems to me that both sets of staff deserve a pat on the back for the proffessional way they are behaving under difficult circumstances and from other posts that the 2 managers of these companies should stop trying to score points and take some direction from their very skilled and proffesional staff. I feel that these 2 managers could learn a lot from their own staff

[G-MABR]

Seemed like a good time to register G-MABR. More legendary than TZ but lockers smaller than a LET! :ok:

[manxbudgie]

Travelled back to the rock today
Saw the last couple of postings about MR and their morale have to say that all the MR staff that I saw at the airport today looked as if they didnt have a morale issue much the same as when I flew out, maybe they are just generally a really happy bunch and if their morale is low it certainly didnt show on their faces to the flying public, maybe like has been said before though its just because they are a proffessional bunch of people and know how to behave in front of passengers. If that is the way the staff appear it will be a shame to lose them as handling agents for FlyBe it really helps when the staff at checkin in and departures give you a cheery smile, hope FS can learn something from the MR team must say they didnt seem to be quite as smily

[manxregional monkey]

manxbudgie what you saw was professionalism, the problems might not be obvious on the surface. Most of us feel like we have been taken for a ride. Right or wrong what would really help is for someone to let us know where we stand. People are disenchanted. Seem to be improving slightly though.

[manxbudgie]

Manx Regional Monkey
Hear what you are saying, It is a shame that your management cant understand the needs of its staff especially when the staff appear to be acting very proffessionally, could it be that they dont know which way to go after all this is a volatile industry, one minute up one minute down, if they decide to get rid of people for instance then in a months time something else comes up they have lost, from what I see, some very good staff. Perhaps its time for the staff to actually approach the management and ask the direct question ie "are we likely to be made redundant" any manager worth their salt surely would have to give a direct answer. Also if the station manager isnt being upfront perhaps its now time to go higher up. Whatever happens I hope you all get to stay as I reiterate my statements that you all seem a very proffessional team and it would be a shame not to have you at Ronaldsway. Good Luck and keep smiling!

[Hansol]

I've got every respect for you guys at MR but you need to do the maths. When the Flybe contract moves entirely to FS what's left for you to handle and how many bodies will it take. Not many.

[treaclecat]

Hansol

Ever cheerful Hansol!!! You should change your title to " Sir doom and gloom"
I think the staff at MR are quite aware of the problems with losing BA but as has been said many times "watch this space" not everything is as it may seem. No one is stupid enough to think things will remain the same this is the airline industry but it may not be as bad as you would like to paint it. There have been staff leaving MR through "natural wastage" over the last few months that have not been immediatley replaced and with the BACon hangar closing there may be a few more going. Things have a habit of happening for a reason.
Not so long ago FS were in a similar position, laying off staff changing T&C to save money. Oh and what happened to their CS Manager obviously didnt conform from what Ive heard!!! or was it just that money had to be saved somewhere!!!!!!!

[Hansol]

Treacle the thread was talking about MR mamnagement being straight with their staff, if you have any new information about more work coming MR's way please tell, I don't it. The deal with Manx 2 is a give away and FS has everything else stitched up. Its not fair to lead the good guys and gals at MR on with promises of Jam tomorrow, give them the facts so they can make the decision for themselves. If it isn't all doom and gloom please tell and make us all feel better.

[treaclecat]

Hansol ("Mr Doom and Gloom")

I think the staff at MR are aware that they have a decision to make but maybe some staff feel a loyalty to the company to stick it out and see what happens after all they have nothing to lose by doing that. As for those that dont want to stay then they have their own choices to make.

[manxbudgie]

Hansol
Dont think you are reading all of Treaclecats message they are saying that MR dont need to be reminded of what is happening they are fully aware but they have already lost staff from natural wastage so perhaps losing more staff isnt an option at the moment. Treaclecat also pointed out that it wasnt so long ago that FS were singing from a different hymm sheet maybe that should be remembered.
Also heard from a contact at the airport that FS should read up on the Triple A procedures seems not all their despatchers are fully aware of the implications of sending an aircraft out when the bags dont reconcile - quite worrying that, hope its not true!!!!

RED 17

That answers the question then maybe they dont know yet or maybe they are just keeping the answer close to their chests unfortunatley with June fast approaching they will have to make some kind of decision soon I would think as I believe that is when the handling transfers over completley - watch this space I suppose the answer could come in the next week or so

[The Blade]

You think you have problems I did the last LGW IOM flight 24th March and managed to get in 25 minutes early!

Following day here in MAN dont think a flight left less than an hour late.

Handling agent?

FSS!

Did Flybe tell anyone?

No

Dont you love professionalism.

As to the comedy act at check in on the IOM I dont think Ive ever seen a more disorganised shambles in 18 years of professional flying Wednesday morning.

[Hansol]

Sounds like the FS bashing is warming up nicely. Lets not forget in all this that MR lost the contract they had with Bacon, so the manangement there have only thereselves to blame for the pesent situation. Loyalty is fine but not if you are being kept in the dark by those you are being loyal to. I hope when the time comes MR have the resources to do the right thing for all.

[treaclecat]

Hansol
Just to put you straight MR did not lose the contract with BAcon, Bacon no longer exist after June. Get it in your head BA are gone its a whole new ball game.
Yes MR did not win the contract with Flybe but that has nothing to do with their ability to do the job its that FS management are prepared to offer the services for a much lower price. Thats the world of business. But Its the FS staff that have sufferred over the last week some working longer hours than is legal with no days off, how long can they keep that up before they all collapse with exhaustion. Both sets of staff are working their socks off for the management at the moment whichever company they are working for they are working as one team which proves once again the staff can get on, lets hope that continues. Come June MR may not have the volume of traffic passenger wise although flight wise there will be at least 25 flights a day which is enough to keep at least some of the staff in a job so dont kill them off just yet. Keep your heads up MR and at least if nothing else continue to do the job proffessionally. Just to remind you Hansol MR are the handling agents for Aer Arann, Eastern, Logan Air and not just Manx 2 you seem to be under the illusion that its just Manx 2 and unless "Sir Doom and Gloom" knows any better none of those airlines have any plans to change handlers

[manxbudgie]

Hansol Treaclecat and The Blade

All good comments but it is only still week 1 of a new operation give the staff a break wherever they are Im sure they are doing the best they can.

Hansol
I think you should back off MR with your comments about them losing staff if you cant take the comments that other people are making about FS then you should take a leaf out of your own book and stop making these snide remarks about MR. Both companys are doing a great job under difficult conditions you seem to be the one that is creating a FS bashing from your own comments.

[Hansol]

I wish everyone at MR well at what is a very difficult time, the discussion I thought we were having was about how well informed the staff were about future prospects for the company and therefore themselves. If management has been honest and forthright in their communication to all involved then there is nothing more to say, if however they are staying silent so as to maximise their profit over the next couple of months while keeping people hanging on with false hope, this would be wrong. Once again good luck to all at MR I am sure that everyone will do the right thing.

[manxregional]

Things at manx regional are looking up, has been a massive improvement from this time last week, back to normal ;) . Maybe was the presure from last week. Must say though we all are happier and think I might be sticking around because it will be a intresting and hopefully very good summer for MR !! :ok: Things are on the up for definite. Keep up the good work. We are behind everyone 100% all of the way,

[treaclecat]

Hansol
Sorry if you thought I was deviating and you are right part of the discussion was regarding "being kept in the dark" but it was YOU who intimated that the only important contract MR had was the BAcon and that FS held the majority now that Bacon have gone I was just pointing you in right direction that the staff at MR do handle more than the BAcon contract and those other airlines are just as important if not as large. However I do agree with you that the management need to take heed and start talking to their staff and not treating them like mushrooms.
ManxRegional
You are quite right the morale has improved no end long may it last. MR staff are a good bunch of people who dont stay down long however bad things appear from the outside.

[IOMspotter]

Do IOM airport have open days for tower visits?

[treaclecat]

Had a PM today suggesting that some of my comments about MR management are not doing the staff any good not sure what the message actually referred to but under the circumstances I will not post again relating to any staffing issues at MR. I will watch this thread with interest though, shame the PM sender could not be more specific in their comments but then as they have not posted on this thread before maybe they feel they shouldnt be contributing. Anyway bye guys and good luck everyone

[San Expiry]

Let's not forget just who or what Manx Regional is. It isn't a poor little handling company set up by the 'locals'. It was set up under the whirling smoke and mirrors produced by BA at a time when it donate it's entire Jestream fleet to Eastern along with numerous routes - and dumped its ground handling services on the Rock into a convenient Eastern owned vehicle called Manx Regional .....yes, dear old Eastern. Now, I seem to recall there were great expectations for Eastern's development at IOM which have failed to materialise and if it comes to no Eastern it must surely be no Manx Regional. I've heard that the manx2 handling is almost for free, Eastern is on the retreat and that leaves a few flights from Loganair. If I was working at MR I'd be taking a very careful look the future and demanding some answers from the manager because like management teams everywhere, they do know the answers and are probably lying through there teeth if they say otherwise.

[Hansol]

I see the Feb pax numbers are down again, 5% less then last year. The new director has a tough job on her hands. Talking to people in the pub now that the better weather is coming the Steam packet seems to be the vehicle of choice for NW bound pax.

[manxbudgie]

Week 2 of a new operation, lets hope for the boys and girls of FS and MR the challenges are a lot less than last week.

I will be travelling out this week so we shall see.

Were EMX operating Flybe MAN yesterday as a friend of mine was travelling and looking forward to a trip on an EMB but phoned to say they flew EMX instead!!!

[EMX81L]

manxbudgie, G-EMBS was deployed in manchester yesterday due to some of the services bein over booked over there. Because of this, EMX put REJ onto the manchester to accomodate the BE pax, and i believe everyone got to where they needed to go, so well done EMX :ok:

[skiddyiom]

Good News !!!!!!
Confirmed from source that WestAir are to announce on Thursday that they are opening an MRO on the IOM.

[Hansol]

Skiddy whats an MRO ? and who are Westair ?

[lhuingysaer]

Maintenance/ Repair and Overhaul. Westair is a cargo operation in Sweden. Nice to see the maintenance hangars will be utilised. Richard

[PAXboy]

BA had stated in their hand over to flybe that pax could continue to book trhough them for the sectors such as IOM. I thought this very curious but decided to check today.

They obviously wish to off load this from their booking system, as they have cranked the price up.

Same flights, same days:
flybe £139.98
BA £192.50

Benefit? I would get some BA Miles and lounge access if I was silver or gold. I wonder why they would add £52.52? Perhaps they will get enough twits booking through them? It would have been more honest to just stop booking this route.

[Haven't a clue]

I read most of the messages that flowed from BA/FlyBe galactic headquarters on the BA Connect takeover by FlyBe, and thought that maybe it might work for me as pax.

I booked my last (see below) flight to LGW on the FlyBe website, mainly because I wanted to sort out seat assignments as I was travelling en-famille. Got the BA miles but discovered afterwards that I don't get tier points unless I book on BA.com.
As I said elsewhere on this site the LGW South experience was truelly aweful.
So that will be my last flight on FlyBe. No tier points = no need. Next week is booked on EMX. As, I'm afraid, will be my future weekly trips to the big city.

FlyBe - nice knowing you:*

PS PaxBoy - congrats on 3000 posts!:ok:

[PAXboy]

Thanks Haven't. I had not noticed!! My family and friends would find that number no surprise what-so-ever. :sad:

It has been said that my tombstone will state "That shut him up" :p

[Anotherflapoperator]

From the perspective of the crew who are now operating the Flybe flights, it's a very frustrating time for us.

I don't know what is causing the problems, or what the motive is, but the split ground handling on the rock is just not working. The number of checkin errors we see is alarming. Delays as MR try to sort out the problems, indifference from FS staff when questioned, it goes on. Whether that's poor training, lack of rest I don't know, some are definitely better than others though...

I agree Pier one at LGW South terminal is atrocious. But what can WE do? It's scheduled to be knocked down soon I've heard, but the good will we still see from some pax is much appreciated.

Thing is the checkin is the first airline experience you get and if that's bad, it sours the trip. Every flight we get families split up, two pax in one seat, baggage mislabelled or given duplicate tags. You must wonder that if the start of the trip is being ruined by the checkin staff, and folk are being turned off Flybe as a result, who benefits? Then again, who's doing the checkin? FS. Where are their loyalties? Go figure.

I'm sure a lot of the staff are trying their best on unfamiliar software, seating plans, etc. However the end result of a f-up is positive marketing for EMX.

So, to all the passengers who get buggered around at checkin, remember, look around and see what's changed, and what's still the same. When you get on board, please don't take it out on the crews, or the ramp staff. We're trying our best.

Looking back a page or two, only one skipper laments the loss of G-MABR, the rest of us called it scabby dog for a good reason. G-GNTZ is indeed in 2-3 config, it's original Business air seats were in-G-MABR! The'll be going back in soon, I suspect.
It doesn't have a row 17, but then again it doesn't have a row 13 either! We can put 80 on, just pop the No3 on the jumpseat if needed.

G-MANS, G-MIMA's twin sister, comes here to operate from the 9th, or possibly before. 90 seats, 3-3. It should have had 93, two less than G-MIMA due to the rear dogbox, but when they tried to put them in according to the engineering drawings, they didn't fit, so 90 it is. Twin crewseat at the front and airstairs too so no wait for steps anymore!

The time the bags failed to show up was because the fueller put too much on and overloaded the aircraft. Again not the airline's fault. They could have de-fuelled it, but the delay would have been interminable. As to the incontinence episode, sorry my fault. Well sort of, we just started out and got a hydraulics warning followed by a low quantity warning. A flexible hose to the airbrake jaqck split and out came the Skydrol all over the back end and taxiway. TZ is 24 years old, so I'm just glad it didn't happen in the air because Skydrol is a good paint stripper and the car park at LGW is under the flight path:uhoh:

Hopefully we'll have a -300 by June, when G-MANS is also retired, so then we'll be on the flybe automatic system. FS should be able to checkin properly, and Serviceair at LGW should be able to cope as well.

Lottery to start to guess what G-MANS will look like? BA Tail, white tail? Flybe stickers? answers on a postcard. It'll be good to get back into the comfortable seats anyway.

Bear with us, the prices are getting better and with more seats to fill, they'll be better still.

Unless the check-in experience puts everyone off in the meantime of course....

[skiddyiom]

As you are probably aware, flap, MANS is simply white and blue, with just the BA logos and tail removed. Same as the Dash's and probably the 145's eventually.

The question now is, what happens to all the support staff here who, on the 20th April, don't have a job with the "independant" tech services company being set up? Portakabin sold, hangar locked - where do we go? Any guess's?

skiddyiom

[Anotherflapoperator]

Skiddy, thanks for that, I posted before it arrived here yesterday. Shame they couldn't have stretched to a Flybe sticker next to the door ore something.

I sincerely hope the hanger lads all get something from the talks happening with You know who. Great bunch of hard working professionals and I have a lot of respect for the teams there. I've got my fingers crossed, if that's any help?

[MUFC_fan]

Just tried to book a flight on the BLK-IOM route for the TT races.

7 flights on the Friday all full, and on the Saturday! Checked the BFS/BHD routes aswell, they also were full! LBA not far behind!

I'm sure BE and EMX will be laughing all the way to the bank aswell after those two weeks!;)

[Tinwald]

Thers always the boat,fella, but thats probably full as well:{

[exconnected]

Tinwald, the boat is as bad as the airlines - £127 for a FOOT passenger OFF the island during TT! Rip off city or what?

Anyway, I'd rather fly - think of all those sweaty, hairy-a***d bikers swanning about on the Ben for 4 hours. At least on a plane it's an hour tops! :E

excon

[Tinwald]

excon, fella. What are you saying. Some of my best mates are hairy-a***d bikers tee hee. Goes with the territory over here on Fraggle. Anyway, great news for my mates down the hangar cos the new owners put an ad in the local freebie paper for engineers and managers.:D

[IOMspotter]

Really pleased to hear about the hanger. should bring some interesting aircraft over here. Does anyone have a link to the full announcement of what's happening?

[Anotherflapoperator]

Interesting? You mean ATPs?

Whatever, fantastic news, though from what I hear it's not actually fully signed yet, but awaiting approval from WestAir's board of Directors. Eddie is grinning again though!

Best of luck to all at the hanger, hope it goes well.

Meanwhile. The EMB is not seen by everyone as a wonderjet, but it is VERY quick and the landings smooth. Damn thing whizzes past us on the quadrapuff like we're stood still. It's very modern, the cabin space is OK, the room under seats good and the overhead lockers, not the largest, but will swallow briefcases, soft bags and coats with ease. If you think of it as a business jet, then the ride is a thrill and certainly an experience if you're used to little Dashes or the ATR.

Expect change this Autumn sometime, with two of the super new efficient Dash 8 Q400s coming to replace both 146 and Embraer. 78 seats, (same as G-MABR), but two by two like normal dash8 so loads of lockers overhead, comfortable seats and very quiet. Steps at back and front, quiet working APUs for air conditioning. Fully modern avionics for us to play with, working anti-noise system in the cabin too. They can do IOM-LGW in nearly the same time as the 146 and burn half the fuel. Only 5 minutes longer. That's 8 tonnes a day less kerosene used. With one aircraft. Think of that as enough heating oil to heat four homes for nearly a year. Sad to lose a jet? Think green and it makes a lot of sense. They'll stick an Embraer 195 on for those really peak days anyway.

The Q400 is nothing like the Q300 or 200 EMX use. It will outclimb a 146 to 25,000ft. Cruise at only 40kts slower than the 146, but get to cruise height and speed several minutes quicker. The cost reduction WILL fliter through to your ticket price too.

Not till the end of the Summer holidays though, the aircraft, not the cost reduction! 146-300 with 118 seats for TT and the summer. You won't recognise the pilots though, we'll be off training to fly the Dash. See you when we get back!

[Haven't a clue]

Introducing new aircraft quickly is a big step forward. On the EMX thread you (Anotherflapoperator) said..

.... if you can stand Pier 1 at LGW that is!

As I can't get any further than the airbridge, just how bad is it in there? The main shopping part is OK, it's only the pier that is old and grotty and that's due to be knocked down and redeveloped next year I believe.

Pier 1 itself is not the problem. Inbound you have to queue for a photo presumably so you can mix with the outgoing pax, and queue to be scanned out again (yet strangly as I recall this scanning point is just beyond the seating area and you still mix with the outgoing pax....)

Outbound is the problem for me and the missus. You have to turn up early enough to get through security (FlyBe's website says check-in opens 90 mins before the flight, and I suggest it should be sooner - I checked in online which works well despite the potential for additional charges for replacement boarding cards should you be unlucky to suffer a printer wreck).

Because the terminal was designed in the days when security was a speedier process all the decent places to eat are landside, and I guess the original plan was for pax to spend time there before going airside. The result is that all the pax are congregated airside and the place is untidy and filthy. There's few places left to sit and it's better to head down to Peir 1 despite it's lack of facilities.

If you're paying full whack, as I often do, you get to use the FlyBe lounge, which is a a peaceful haven off peak, but will no doubt be crowded at peak times.

There is an arguement that we were spoilt by BA - LGW North is new(ish), has plenty of space to sit, big lounges (kids allowed), plenty of places to eat airside, and is kept clean and tidy. So the transfer to LGW South is a huge backward step. Maybe FlyBe should relocate?:D (Of course there is the need to deal with the Transit, which has broken down on occasion).

You have commented earlier about the positive side of the new FlyBe operation with enthusiasm, and I admire you for that. It was the Manx based crews who that kept me loyal even after the introduction of the BA Connect brand. Let's see what the pax numbers look like in due course.

[Anotherflapoperator]

Thanks for the info, we don't get to see what it's like unless we travel as pax. It is the same crews as it's always been though for TT and just after you'll see some new faces up front as we go down to Exeter to convert.

It will be sad to lose the jets, but they use a lot of fuel, and are not very green. The Q400 is a super beast, here's to the future!

[revik]

flaps

Are you getting a bonus for this blatent flybe propoganda?;)

[Wellington Bomber]

I agree the Q400 does look great on the ground, but should the thing be flying instead of being on the ground.

[Anotherflapoperator]

Propaganda? Well let's see, I do admit I'm trying to adjust to a future flying a TP instead of a 146, but the more I look into the Part B the better the Q400 seems.

It is the aircraft of the times, rather than a dinosaur like the 146. I'm sold on the 8 tonnes of fuel saved per day alone, let alone any other benefits.

The only thing that's keeping the things on the ground is the lack of crews right now. It will certainly seem strange after 6 years of flying one offs, to have 40 identical toys to play with.

[red17]

Bad weather again here at IOM again today. Fog causing problems all round:{

[Snappybits]

Joys of living on an island I suppose....fog and sea mist bad combo.

[Anotherflapoperator]

Tell me about it:rolleyes:

I've never had to divert back to LGW before. Clever though, it protected the rest of the day's schedule and several pax who got off would have been very late for meetings, etc anyhow. Glad we had enough fuel.

Wx is back to normal now, pressure rising so a nice weekend in store.

[Bob Stinger]

I have flown in a couple of times whan the fog is all down the Western and Southern sides of the island and the airfield is in the clear!!

[Jamesair]

Quite a few extra flights being arranged for the TT races by Eastern and VLM

[nospeedrestriction9]

It looks like Manx2 are running the biggest schedule from Blackpool.