ISLE OF MAN

[Cloud1]

uncovered

Bloody hell don't burst a blood vessel - what safety / operational decision was this then. Luxair operate the Q400 safely into LCY do they not?

FL370 Officeboy

Hear hear and well said! It is refreshing to see someone actually make sense :D

The thing with Airline Quality is that people who usually use that site are people with much time on their hands. They haven't had what they want and because the person reading it cannot prove them wrong they say or type what they like. If you take a look at Carsurvey.org their flight section appear to have lots of praise for Flybe.

well bend me over and slap my ass Wow best offer I, and I am sure many others, have had all day!

Today's operation hasn't been too bad although this morning wasn't the best start. All IOM departures were early departing though ;) but for Europe's largest regional airline, flying between 450 and 500 flights daily they don't do too bad really.

Out of these departures 3 were affected this morning due tech but mainly a delay of between 1 and 2.5 hours. Everything else was ok albeit with a 10 minute delay here and there due to ATC and a Shares outage at SOU.

[The Shop Floor]

well bend me over and slap my ass

....or round the back of the head for being a cheeky **** to a Captain ;).

Grow up.

[Tonyq]

FL370 ...... whilst everything may have been all sweetness and light this afternoon, I was booked on BE7347 MAN-IOM due at 17.15.

Although the inbound flight arrived in MAN early at 16.40, we actually left at 20.35, 3 hour 20 mins, late and 35mins after the 'last' flight of the day because rather than use the a/c (G-JEDK) for it's scheduled return to IOM, FlyBE chose to send it to BHD and back while the 60+ pax had to hang around MAN.

Maybe shows where IOM pax sit in FlyBe's priorities.

Incidentally, I noticed the that the IOM based crew handed to a/c over to another crew for the BHD run, and presumably had to hang around MAN too. Captain sounded mighty :mad:ed off when he had to explain the situation to very weary and fed up passengers.

I've a few good experiences with FlyBe in the last few weeks, with several early arrivals and examples of good service, but today was not very clever..........

[Capt. Horrendous]

Sorry you were inconvenienced today - I know the crew were disappointed not to be able to run to schedule - not for themselves, but for the impact it had on the customers.

This sort of thing hasn't happened for a long time and was not a decision ops took lightly.

I know of a couple of examples over the past six months where the programme elsewhere was delayed while an aircraft and crew were diverted to rescue a tech aircraft in the Isle of Man. It works both ways.

[Tonyq]

Thanks Capt. H for your comments...........I guess because there is no PM rotation to LTN on Tu. and Wed. until TT Week there is a little slack in the system with that a/c and your Ops. guys took advantage.

Overall though, no harm done and my recent good experiences still out weigh what happened today..........

[FL370 Officeboy]

I'm afraid I don't know the details of your exact case Tonq, and I am not going to reply to every complaint about flybe. However, what I would say is that there would be a very good reason if they had to delay you. Let us consider the following:

MAN based aircraft tech and due to the time of year etc, not exactly a massive amount of spare capacity at that time of the day. So, the airline is faced with the following options. They must take into account that all flights that evening, including the BHD flights are very busy indeed:

1. Cancel the BHD flights completely, stranding up to 156 passengers.
2. Move the passengers from the MAN-BHD-MAN that is tech onto later flights
3. Wait until all the other MAN Dash 8 has finished its work then use this to operate the flights.
4. Get a larger aircraft to operate the later BHD rotation, and thus combine the two.
5. Use a 'hot' spare aircraft and crew to operate the MAN-BHD-MAN
6. Operate your MAN-IOM flight on time and then ferry the aircraft back to MAN to do the BHD rotations.
7. Use another aircraft based elsewhere to operate the MAN-BHD-MAN, and then return to its base.

Pros/cons:
1. Cancelling a flight is absolutely last option (NO)
2. Not an option as all MAN-BHD-MAN rotations are heavily booked (NO)
3. That would mean a delay of over 6.5 hours for the BHD passengers. (NO)
4. Not an option, the E195 is already airborne to MXP. Plus, it isn't big enough to carry 2 DHC8 worth of pax (NO)
5. Of course, this would be the preferred option, but not available at this time (NO)
6. This would require two additonal (empty) sectors to be added into the programme, as JEDK would need to be positioned back into IOM afterwards to operate the next morning's services. Then there is the question of who would fly these extra empty sectors?
7. What seemingly actually happened. All three sets of pax get where they need to be, and as the aircraft is not required after 1800 when it is planned to return to the IOM, you are not impacting any later services. Also, no additional sectors are required to be flown. (NOT IDEAL, BUT BEST OPTION AVAILABLE)

Maybe shows where IOM pax sit in FlyBe's priorities.


I don't think that is a fair comment. The IOM pax were not victimised, or treated as lower priority. That was just (seemigly) the best option to keep the programme going with the least disruption and get all the passengers where they needed to be. As JEDK was not being used after 1800, this prevented later services being delayed. I can understand the frustration at your flight being delayed however and am not making excuses....I just think that pax don't really have the bigger picture and maybe my little ramble may help you understand what sort of things happen on the day.

Oh and by the way....the number of times I've seen pax whinge at the CC when option 2 has been used saying 'the airline are just trying to save money by combining flights as there wasn't enough pax' is what I was getting at in my earlier post. That NEVER happens. If flights are combined, it's because of problems.

**EDIT: Capt Horrendous got there first as I was typing so slowly! It's just as frustrating for the crews as he says as we all want to provide the best possible service we can to you. It does work both ways though operationally as was shown last month when the MAN E195 crew rescued IOM pax when 2 out of the 3 IOM airframes were tech. Your custom is important it's just sometimes these things happen. I can genuinely say though as someone who does 4 sectors a day it is very, very rare.

[Otters2000]

I know of a couple of examples over the past six months where the programme elsewhere was delayed while an aircraft and crew were diverted to rescue a tech aircraft in the Isle of Man. It works both ways.


Maybe it worked both ways, but with no competition on flybe's routes to and from the Island, I'd suggest (rightly or wrongly) it's slipping down the flybe priorities list.

[JobsaGoodun]

Maybe it worked both ways, but with no competition on flybe's routes to and from the Island, I'd suggest (rightly or wrongly) it's slipping down the flybe priorities list.

I'd disagree, yes there may be no competition now but the fact remains that aside for the likes of Loganair, JEA/BE/Flybe are one of the most experienced carriers at serving an island community. JER/GCI have done well for Flybe in the past and continue to grow with more routes/frequencies added.

The fact remains that all the aircraft, no matter where they are and what route they are serving belong to one company, and that one company must use that resource as best they can to ensure that all passengers get moved. Tonyq was unfortunately disadvantaged on this occasion, but all so easily next time, he could find himself on a MANBHD flight that drops into the IOM to help move passengers, or maybe a MANBHD/EDI/GLA flight could be cancelled to ensure the IOM flight operates. If pax become unhappy, another carrier will move in to compete - a sole market is never guaranteed!

[Capt. Horrendous]

Otters 2000, it'd be the wrongly option.

[Otters2000]

Otters 2000, it'd be the wrongly option.


Certainly, but i thought there was too much flybe loving in this thread to say that myself :p

And jobsa, if an airline has to change aircraft to serve another route, but have an option of delaying 1 of 2 flights by 3 hours... they're going to choose the one with less competition, whereby a delay will mean pissing off the same amount of pax but pax with no other option. So as flybe take over more routes from IOM and near a monopoly on the island as they do on most routes, I think that's more and more what we'll see :(

[Cloud1]

I don't think competition would play a part, more the number of passengers involved and frequency on the route Ie are there later flights operating the same route etc, aircraft availability and Crew hours.

And I don't think that more disruption will be experienced as Flybe introduce more routes, it is rare at Exeter and thats my local. Flybe have a monopoly there.

Maybe it would be easier for Flybe to pull out of IOM altogether and let the ungrateful gits that moan about the service swim to the UK. Would that be better?

[j41cac]

Cloud one, its not about being ungrateful gits, but the need for a reliable airline to cater for the folk who fly for business on a daily basis.

Is it too much to ask for? :confused:

I've no problem with Fbe and appreciate their expanding service on the Island, but perhaps one step at a time instead of this robbing Peter to pay Paul scenario. Taking on so many routes before you've blinked without the backup on their huge network is bound to have problems.

[Cloud1]

Well as already discussed airlines cannot foresee everything and disruption can and will occur. Fact.

Whether its business travel or not is irrelevant. I am sure Flybe will, as they already do, make every effort to operate to the best of their ability.

Not sure about the ungrateful gits - someone actually contacted Flybe to ask for a refund of their Euromanx ticket and when Flybe said no, because they don't have it the poor Flybe agent got a mouth full. An IOM resident.......you might not be ungrateful but I know that they are out there!

[j41cac]

Well, theres always one!

Will Flybes fares level out after all this Euromanx mess blows over or will they no longer be the Islands Low Cost Airline, as they state?

[uncovered]

BHX-IOM - Apparently EASTERN lost over 40% of their pax to flybe in April (YOY), so maybe Flybe are seeing enough demand to support their announcement of double daily throughout the winter.:ok:

[Snappybits]

Snappysbits Snapped At..........



but is not bothered.


Indeed of course eastern have lost pax to Flybe , they would do at £4.69.

My point was that their double daily service did nothing for the route as a whole ie an 8% decrease on total passenger numbers.....uncover that for me ??

snaps snaps back;)

[Cloud1]

I guess it will be interesting when the double daily winter (BE) services start up. Generally speaking demand for air travel is lower during the winter however the business traffic may still warrant two daily flights plus T3 services.......when the load factors are revealed it might make interesting reading.

Does anyone know how IOM-SOU is going? Whether or not Flybe would consider putting it to daily....I don't believe its daily at the moment although feel free to correct me if I am wrong. ;)

[j41cac]

Eastern might have lost but a few but not enough to see them off.

Flybe don't hold a good reputation at the moment on the BHX and i tell you i'd rather sip bubbles and meet my superiors than hang around waiting for something to happen with Flybe.

Eastern have a clean history for me and have never failed to impress with punctuality.

We need to keep some competition, even if the prices are high.

I know who'd I fly with.:D

[Tonyq]

I don't think that is a fair comment. The IOM pax were not victimised, or treated as lower priority.

I see that the first IOM-MAN today was three hours late back to IOM, arriving after the second flight. Why ?? Because FlyBe Ops sent the a/c (G-ECOC) to Southampton and back, presumably leaving all the punters hanging around at MAN.

Harking back to my post of 13th May.........this is becoming a bit of a habit guys.

I appreciate operational choices have to be made, but it's starting to look as if IOM pax are considered 'fair game' in FlyBe land............

Personally, I generally enjoy travelling with Flybe. Well on the way to my second free flight with Rewards4All, and good value if you plan ahead, but this is the second time in four days (that I know of) that IOM bound pax have been :mad:ed about.

Despite all the good media coverage FlyBe have had since the EMX collapse, many people are uncomfortable about them having 75% of the market and if this type of scenario happens too often and gets in the Manx press, it will damage all the good stuff that's been achieved

[FS01]

Great letter sent to local rag the other day... pax travelling back to IOM charged for excess baggage, 4 pax had one bag each at 26KG. So charged 6KG excess each, which at current rate worked out around 140GBP. Pax claim 'But we were allowed more with our Air NewZealand flight'. My question is how long have Air NewZealand been flying to IOM???:confused: Typical IOM mentality

[Haven't a clue]

But if they'd booked Economy Plus they could have taken 9 bags each , each bag weighing up to 30kg. You get what you pay for. Pax usually forget this.

[Cloud1]

Actually its not 30 kgs per bag, its 30 kgs for the passenger. Its just that they can take up to 9 bags free of charge (total combined weight is still 30 kgs)

[Haven't a clue]

Then the small print must be tiny because when I've booked E+ I've been left with the impression that I could take a heap of luggage. The whole process needs some regulator intervention. BA say 1 bag at 23kg for Y, 2 for J and 3 for F. But the flights to "connect" to these flights be they BE or other have different criteria. The poor punter is being set up to be ripped off!

[lfc84]

:eek:

:):)

[Capt. Horrendous]

Looking at their respective websites, Flybe, Easyjet & Bmi Baby have almost identical baggage policies and tarrifs. Jet 2 allow 17kg with similar excess fees. Ryanair have a 15kg allowance with £12 per kilo for excess.

[PAXboy]

The poor punter is being set up to be ripped off!Eerrr - No! The punter has found them self in a changing commercial environment.

For a large number of reasons, nationalised carriers have gone, along with their way of taking you from one end of the earth to the other - with all of your baggage. The main reason that this has happened is because the pax wants to pay less money. :rolleyes:

This is the place to state, "You get what you pay for" as well as "The customer is king" What the customer wants is to spend less money. The airlines have done their uttermost to ensure that is the case and the pax should now be thanking the airlines for their responsive manner to the needs of their customers.

[jetstreamtechrecords]

FlyBe are gonna give up their crazy attemt to kill Eastern on BHX this September and move back to single daily. Not enough volume for 2x Q400's even without Easterns 3xJ41 rotations. Instead they're going to do a single daily IOM BHD.:eek:

[ALLMCC]

If Flybe are considering doing IOM - BHD, they'll have their work cut out competing against Manx 2. Euromanx weren't able to.

[OltonPete]

jetstreamtechrecords

Certainly the April figures were a disaster and I can't believe that
they ever considered it to be a double daily Q400 route (it was
loaded for June for a brief period) unless they just presumed that
Eastern would disappear.

However double daily is still bookable as of now throughout Sept
and October. Is you source from the IOM end or flybe?

If correct they need to adjust the booking engine quickly even if it
is bank holiday.


Pete

[matspart3]

Presumably the Manx2 GLO-IOM has also taken its toll on the BHX route too?

[Tonyq]

It's only just over two weeks since BE announced that the double daily was going to continue through the winter. Difficult to believe that their strategy would have turned around so quickly.

I guess we'll see what transpires when the winter schedules are loaded in a month or so.

[j41cac]

It was obvious traffic on the Brum wouldn't sustain 2 q400's. Eastern got a load of regulars which keep them going strong on the brum.Its not just Eastern they're trying to see off. They want the whole regional market to themselves

[MUFC_fan]

What are the main British Entrepaneurial awards in the UK?

Manx2 and it's founders should take a bow and receive an award for giving flying back to the public. Cheap, frequent and very enjoyable flights. Absolutely superb!

If I said that a new airline was going to force Euromanx off the Belfast route and force Eastern off BRS, oh - and it's prices start form cheaper than anybody elses - £15!:ok:

Fantastic work by Manx2 and they are really showing they can fight against the big guys! Love your work!

[GMIMA]

MUFC-fan

I dont call 110 quid cheap on a old knackard metro or let 410 single fare to blackpool.

MANX2 isnt, and never will be an airline!!!!!!!!!! its just a ticketing agent - FACT

apparently a LET 410 took off from BFS to the IOM a few weeks back with the forward cargo hold unlocked, however the pilot (cowboy) decided to proceed on even when it would have been more practical and safer to return to BFS. IM sure the AAIB report will make very interesting reading.

When the Let410 arrived in ronaldsway the cargo door was bent back over the forward winshield

[flightlevel26]

G-MIMA you sound a very bitter person. I do hope you are not part of Manx Regional because it is actually Manx2 that keep you guys afloat!

[MUFC_fan]

Does it really matter whether they own their own a/c, crew etc. They ARE a registered airline with the CAA and therefore are an airline - FACT.

I for one have never paid 110 quid for a flight with them as I do what most people do and book more than one day in advance. The only time the fare reaches that price if you book the day before or the aircraft is nearly full, pretty much what every other carrier under the sun do.

It is FACT that the AIRLINE have grown routes that they operate on (BLK, BHD) and have opened up new routes (EMA, BFS, GLO etc.). They provide a great service at a reasonable price.

[The Shop Floor]

GMIMA - you seem to be forgetting your routes....pun intended.

You obviously like this place enough to commute to easyscouseland - nothing better than arguing both ends against the middle I suppose.

Like your distant rellie Fletcher, we'll have you strung up for mutiny if you continue.

I do however agree about Manx 2 not being an airline, they are a ticket agency.

[j41cac]

mufc, are working for M2? You seem to have alot of praise for a 'ticketing agent' who has in the past nearly charged me from Leeds over £260 for a rtn ticket (booked 3 weeks in advance).

I ended up saving myself £40 by booking a single, same date, same time each way.

Work that out?

For that price, I expect a hostie serving some sort of refreshments. Yet you get to fly on those bloody awful Lets. :ugh:

[IOMspotter]

Normal aircraft on IOM LBA is a metroIII or 23. L410s operated the route for first 6m then J31. Last year its normally always metros:ok:.

[MUFC_fan]

No I do not work for the company but:

1. Why does it matter whether it is an airline or a 'ticketing agent'?
2. Manx2 have to charge what will make them a profit. I can understand that £260 is alot of money to fork out for a return trip and I don't understand why they charged £40 than a pair of one-ways! I fly from BLK and use the service a lot and the fares are very reasonable for myself and I love booking my fares at £15!:ok:
3. The aircraft are not the best, especially on Let 410s but I use the service as we are only in the air for 25 mins tops and it is a lot easier and cheaper for myself than MAN or LPL. Now when flying to LBA, GLO, EMA, JER and some of the other services the planes are slightly more comfortable.
4. The reason they are able to make their product work is that they use small, quite old aircraft that avoid Gov. taxes, use less fuel and allow the airline to fly routes multi-daily which works for business travellers. If the operated brand new turboprops like BE: they wouldn't be able to fly to smaller airports such as GLO and BLK and offer frequencies like they do as there isn't enough demand; they wouldn't be able to charge the small fares due to increase in Gov. taxes and the doubt that they wouldn't fill their a/c.

Overall I praise the airline as I use them for business and lesuire and I think they are a fantastic outfit who should be praised for what they do. Offer reasonably priced fares to the mainland and make flying easier for the people on the island and on the mainland. Don't know what I would do - having to pass through MAN or LPL - i perish the thought! I suppose people from the South West feel the same, why travel through busy BRS when GLO is available?

[JulietNovemberPapa]

I've got 3 NM flights booked, and I'm happy with the fares paid. Including card fees, they were:

GLO-JER = £71.90 = hopefully on D28
BHD-IOM = £15.99 = hopefully on L4T
IOM-LBA = £49.99 = hopefully on SWM

Really wanna get fly the D28, L4T and SWM, and hopefully I will.

[RVF750]

G-MIMA and others, please don't try and wind up a FLYBE/MANX2 contest, because it won't happen. Both companies get on fine from operating crews to top management. Both know where their business models start and finish and both know the value of not trading on each others' toes.

The Island benefits from both companies, and hopefully will continue to do so for a long time.Any rumours or dirt spreading will fall flat because all who work for both companies know this and are comfortable with it.

End of....

[IOMspotter]

spot on Dash & Thump. Manx2 L410 into LGW, LTN,SOU,BHX or MAN - I dont think so. Q400 on GLO, LBA, EMA, BFS or BLK I don't think so.

Flybe do the big routes, Manxy2 reach the parts the bigger airlines don't want to reach:ok:it works for all.

On more sensible subject, whats the word on May route stats. LPL & MAN up everything else down? Certainly its :mad: quiet in town this week compared to normal TT crowds.:{ June's gonna be tough...:{:{

[matspart3]

1521 pax on the GLO circa 65% load factor.

[GLOworm]

Have Manx2 dropped the 14:10 on Thursdays flight to GLO?

It's not listed today....(even as cancelled).

[PAXboy]

When did the EXE route start? Was it part of Manx Airways, was it started by BA.

All I know is that FlyBe stopped it!!

Thanks.

[RVF750]

I can't remember an EXE route ever in my time with Manx let alone BA. Manx flew it's 146 a/c to EXT for maintenance only, but never pax flights in my memory, dim and slow though it is. Not sure if that helps at all though. Since they took over, Flybe certainly have not chopped any routes, except for new ones they've tried out.

More realistically, they are slowly undoing all the damage BA did in their time.

[matspart3]

The extra Thursday IOM rotation (and last Saturday's JER) were dropped during TT week. Normal ops resume next week....

[PAXboy]

Thanks Dash&Thump I made a guess at the code:=, I was referring to Exeter. I thought that there was a direct service there?

[Dash-7 lover]

The islands air services have had a chequered history to say the least with airlines coming and going. Even though I hated the place beyond belief the islanders deserve some kind of stability! Good luck Manx 2 (but Let410's?????? about time you thought about getting some real planes)

note - the only UK registered Metro III I can think of is G-BUKA and I've seen that surrounded by more emergency vehicles over the years than I've had hot dinners!!

[MUFC_fan]

Good luck Manx 2 (but Let410's?????? about time you thought about getting some real planes)


Why get rid of what put them where they are?

The Lets have given Manx2 the flexibility to offer extremely cheap fares up to high fares at short notice and at high demand, and being accepted by the business passengers who keep return.

They may not be most delightful aircraft to fly on but I would rather spend 25 minutes on one of them than 2 hours at MAN or LBA and pay more!

Just personal opinion!

[GMIMA]

Hi

was checkin in yesterday with flybe and flight support had only 2 desks in operation, even when the que was getting past the information desk.

feel sorry for the staff, because everyone that was checking in were all moaning - great advert of the TT, but its like that duing normal time too.

all its doing is making flybe more un popular, wish mike rutter was there to see it for his own eyes.

what a great way to end the TT, :mad:

[EMX81L]

It is unfortunate that the systems go down, or the computers go down. It doesn't help that there is no Flybe based IT support on the IOM. FS have to call to get someone out, and the response times arent quick. If its a software problem Flybe can dial in, but if its hardware its not so easy.

There are 4 Self Service Kiosks aswell, which are also tempremental.

Obviously all is ok when it all works. No not a good end to TT, but it cant be helped.

[Haven't a clue]

GMIMA

FlyBe want you to check in online or use the self service machines (2 on the ground floor, 2 by security). As an incentive you can then use the Fast Bag Drop desk....which in my experience is often not manned, or is happily taking people from the check in queue and ignores you:ugh:

[Chica]

My experience of using the "fast bag drop" is that passengers in the regular queue think you are Queue-jumping and scowl at you!

[JB007]

In support of the Island airport, albeit not on TT week, I position alot around UK airports and visit the IOM every few months to see my Dad; IOM is an absolute pleasure comparing it to MAN or LGW's South Terminal. 20 minutes from leaving Port St Mary i'm sat in departures checked in! Wonderful stuff...

[PAXboy]

Haven't a clueFlyBe want you to check in online or use the self service machines (2 on the ground floor, 2 by security). As an incentive you can then use the Fast Bag Drop desk....which in my experience is often not manned, or is happily taking people from the check in queue and ignores you
There are self-service machines??? When I left yesterday morning, I had checked in online and went to Fast Bag - even though I had no bag. I was called ahead of others waiting in the main line and then, after inspecting the boarding pass, sent straight upstairs. The online system had not told me that I could do that.

Next trip, I shall probably have a case.

[Haven't a clue]

Chica - I agree pax in the queue don't like it when you are (on the rare event, in my case) called forward before them. Better signage (not a computer printed flapping notice) would help ..

PAXboy - you can head straight to security if you've only got handluggage. As for getting the correct treatment from the desks...maybe someone has been reading this thread and acted on it. If so well done that man or women

JB007 - I agree that despsite the (OK - occasional) check in queues the IoM outbound travel experience is very good indeed. LCY is similar (although sadly no longer a realistic option for us on the IoM now). Be interesting to compare the ratio of staff at check-in and security to pax at Ronaldsway to a BAA operation. Bring back benchmarking!

[west lakes]

You know, amongst all the "this airline did..." "Check in was...."
Some really need to remember the reality of life for folk living on the IOM (I don't)

a member of PPrune on the island was taken fairly seriously ill this morning, this person has been recieving treatment on the mainland for some time. As soon as the patient was stabilised they were put on the first available flight to the mainland to recieve sprecialist care.
So perhaps some of you need to acknowledge this service by the airport, the governments and the airlines.

Just an opinion

[Haven't a clue]

I hope he gets well soon.

IoM DHSS has an air ambulance contract with Woodgate and had a patient transfer contract with EMX (probably now with BE) to faciltate both urgent and less urgent transfers to more suitable hospitals in the UK for which we islanders pay through our taxes.

And yes; it all does get taken for granted.

[Evileyes]

Regarding a number of recent posts radically altered or deleted by the moderators on this thread:

Folks, there is likely a pub just down the road where you can throw darts at each other. Better yet, a local paper where you can print your various aggresive/negative comments with your own name attached.

However, PPRuNe is getting tired of editing and deleting posts in this thread.

If you can't post without a personal attack, or if you are so thin-skinned that you take every post as a personal attack.... leave. Find a sport, go fishing, tip cows, discover mushrooms, but don't post or respond to posts here.

To those who can carry on a discussion without making personal attacks, and those who can accept that someone saying XXX company sucks because they left me at the gate and spilled my tea isn't a personal attack.... welcome.

Cheers,
The AA&R Mods

[j41cac]

I have just heard (perhaps a rumour) recently that Flybe have approached the IOM GOV telling them, that if they allow any other airline on the LPL or MAN routes they'll pull out altogether. Now, is there any truth in this???

So much for the open skies that saw off Euro. It would be such a disappointment if the GOV give into bullying tactics like this. The Island needs competition on all routes to keep fares reasonable cos they'll never be cheap, will they?

What cheap trick will this shower come up with next if it appears to be correct. :=

[Tinwald]

Let em - someother outfit will replace them, no worries.:D

[part69]

J41cac

Stop posting rubbish, read the mods thread above. We had weeks of your posts about eastern starting IOM-LCY. So where are they?

IOM Gov has an open skies policy, this will not change. You can easily find this be researching the IOM news/radio websites.

[PAXboy]

Tinwaldsome other outfit will replace them, no worriesI think that you should worry. IF the rumour is true then it might fall foul of anti-competitive rules but IF the govt refuses (for whatever reason) and IF BE then scale back - then the recession is going to be colder for you.
Just how many domestic carriers are there in a position to take up this amount of capacity?
Just how many more small start-ups (willing - but lacking in reserve capacity) do you want?
Just how much do you want ANOTHER upheaval of the majority of air workers jobs and services on the Island?
Just how much more do you need the IOM to be seen as difficult for operators, so as to dissuade further investment?I agree that the govt have taken various poor decisions in the past but, in the 27 years that my mother has lived on the island we have had BA/Manx/BA/Flybe and the mucking around with all the London destinations. Although I have only had ten sectors on FlyBe, I think that they are making a good fist of it and wish to see them continue. No service can do everything in it's first year.

If nothing else - think of all the staff whose jobs would be in jeopardy in this recession. I shall refrain from asking if YOUR job would be on the line.

[uncovered]

What utter rubbish. Flybe has not made such a request as the DOT or Airport Director will confirm. Happen to know that Flybe has had no discussions with the Govt since it stepped in to rescue all the IOM Pax at a cost of £400k to Flybe. And yes thats a real number and is net of the help from IOM govt, airport and Man airport.

[fsiom]

flybe also made their money from stopping people changing flights at the airport and had to call their call centre at a nice little profil from the calls

[Island Jockey]

Another fine mess by FlYBe Friday at Manchester. End result that last flight MAN IOM was cancelled.

A Tech Aircraft IOM and of course these things happen but what a shambles....at MAN

Info screens and handling agent advising that flight will depart 20:20. Info screens announce Gate opens 5 mins and then go to gate 3....

Info desk confirms aircraft going at 20:20 gate 3.............

Half way down to gate 3 info screens not showing any gate...........

At trasnsfer desk Flight Support confirm aircraft going from gate 3.

20:10 once all the passengers were at gate 3 ...info screen says flight cancelled.

Announcement....BE Flight MAN to IOM Canx all pax go to ticket desk.

This is not the first time that the last Flight is going to ber canx but the decision is advised to pax just before departure.

Poor comms must be with FlyBe Ops and not Flight support at MAN.

[RVF750]

So sorry.

The problem on Friday night was getting bac kto the Island before 11:30pm. They thought they might have got the flight to get away in time, but lost out to old father time.

Tech aircraft happens. These things are pretty new and the company is trying all sorts of things with Bombardier to get them to pull their fingers out and sort the issues.

I agreee the information line in Manchester was not perfect that evening, and can only apologise. Up until the last moment they all tried their best to get the flight away, but the fundemental problem was that even though all staff at the IOM airport agreed to stay and wait as long as possible, there is a hard line of 1130pm that means controllers run out of duty hours, and there is no available replacement at that time, unless you cancel all fights next day.

All the staff at Ronaldsway and the Flybe crews are trying their best to get the job done. Just occasionally, these problems stop the show. Again, sorry, but safety is the prime concern.

[Island Jockey]

A Tech aircraft on IOM I understand but the an aircraft from Manchester did the BE 7347 late and then the last IOM BE 7348 left at 20:00 arriving Manchester 20:45ish

So a tech aircraft in IOM and a Manchester aircraft back in Manchester and the decision to bin the BE 7349 when the passengers were at the gate 20:20.

Therefore the decison to cancel the 7349 could have been made earlier as there was no intention of using the Manchester aircraft to op the 7349 and dead leg it out in the morning.

If it was crew hours at Manchester then the IOM crew from the tech aircraft could have positioned over on the 7348.

[FS01]

Nice little earner for flybe? anothepiece of complete rubbish is the rumour that BE charge £1 a minute for reservations. The 0871 numbers are 10p a minute although the customer service line is £1 a minute:=

[Otters2000]

Nice little earner for flybe? anothepiece of complete rubbish is the rumour that BE charge £1 a minute for reservations. The 0871 numbers are 10p a minute although the customer service line is £1 a minute:=

Oh that's alright then! As long as its just calls to customer services fleecing the passengers! :hmm:

[EMX81L]

All was goin well that day which is gd, but it did start to unravel for the MAN rotations mid afternoon. BE7346 returned to stand with a tech problem, and pax disembarked. A brand new spare part arrived from BHX, but when fitted produced another fault, which is when the new plan was devised for the BE7348.

A 145 did the 7347 then 7346 from MAN, with the 7346 departing IOM at 2030.

A 195 from BHX positioned up to IOM to pick up a big load and went out to MAN as the 7348 at 2240.

Flybe will bust a gut to get all passengers where they need to be on the same day, but unfortunately there will be instances where it isnt possible, due to crew hours, tech a/c, airport closing times, or even all BE a/c operating etc.

Of late though, Flybe performance on the IOM has been very good, and all is running smoothly with the combined BE and EMX passengers. Keep it up all :ok:

[IOMspotter]

A new Euromanx information website has appeared www.euromanx.info (http://www.euromanx.info) :ok:which I suppose is better than the old home page:{which isnt updated.

[vinnym]

Regarding earlier post about premium rate phone numbers check:-

SAYNOTO0870.COM - Non-Geographical Alternative Telephone Numbers (http://www.saynoto0870.com/)

you can normally find an alternative cheaper phone number for the same company.

:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

[j41cac]

Flybe, what an airline eh?

LPL-IOM rtn £250 for Aug. Not given date cos some sad individual will come back with some b@~*&^%t reason why?

Who cares for these routes, what about competition?:ugh:

They seem to be gaining monoplies at other bases where others have been pushed out by prices, only to be pumped up when these Airlines have gone.:ugh:

Proof at INV where prices have increased 40%.

[Tonyq]

I know I'll probably get flamed for this but what the f%ck....

I just spent 5 minutes scrolling through FlyBe fares to LPL for August and there are dozens of flights where the lead in is £0.00 or £8.89.

The most expensive combination I could make was £179.98, and there were only two flights in the whole month you could combine to give this.

I'm sorry if you are going to pay £250, and I accept that by the time August comes and someone tries to book then it may be so, but to imply that is a typical fare available now, IOM-LPL is misleading.

[RVF750]

J41cac.

You sir are a wind-up merchant. Sorry to get personal, but these forums are meant for aerospace professionals and I suppose guests who don't mind joining in.

To show either such naivity or deliberate deceitfulness in your post is neither useful or helpful. Those of us who ARE pilots can see through it instantly, and clearly you'll be answered by others who will show the lie you spin.

If you've got a flight like that at that cost, then there must be at least 70-75 booked on it already, and even then, you'll only get it if you click on Economy plus. So yes, if you want lounge access, extra baggage entitlement, full flight flexibility and other benefits, then go ahead, book onto the busiest time and flight available.

The pricing allows for businessmen who really need to travel last minute to clinch deals and others with really important reasons to have those last couple of seats available. Logical and in tune with providing a service. If you want it cheap, pick a better time or book earlier.

[fredtheanorak]

Is the www.Euromanx.info (http://www.Euromanx.info) site still being updated?:confused: Its more current than the old company site but latest position of the aircraft needs updating. :eek:

[IOMspotter]

I dont think euromanx.info is anything official:confused:

[Island Jockey]

Maybe somone bought the domain name at auction last week.:)

[BAladdy]

The site was set up by the administrators to give advice to affected pax

[jetstreamtechrecords]

Euromanx are now being liquidated according to www.euromanx.info (http://www.euromanx.info) :\

"COLLAPSED airline EuroManx is seeking a winding up order in the High Court.
The company issued a petition for its own winding up on June 16.

This followed a special resolution of EuroManx shareholders on May 17, who agreed to petition for a winding up order because the company was unable to pay its liabilities.

At a court hearing on Monday, the petition was adjourned until July 10 for the Deemster to consider the matter.

They should have dropped the mixed fleet ages ago and life could have been different.:uhoh:

[IOMspotter]

and now we're in the hands of FlyBe. late last night, 3 hours late today:{

[Capt. Horrendous]

IOMSpotter - if EMX had had the same thing happen to them as Flybe did yesterday, there would have been a lot of people on the wrong Islands this morning. They would not have had the capacity to cover the remainder of the programme.

FYI, an a/c went tech in LPL late yesterday afternoon (DC generator problem after pushback). An E195 was drafted in at short notice to cover the remainder of that aircraft's schedule. The tech a/c was fixed overnight in LPL but was out of position this morning - hence the delay on the first IOM-LPL.

[Jet22]

The dash 400 has the range to reach places like AGP ALC so would these two routes be benifical for FlyBe if they started them from the IOM.

And why dont you have chraters to places like this in the summer. It seems even the smallest of INT airports have charters(NWI has a few)??

[RVF750]

It would be nice, but there simply isn't the demand. The Geneva flights last winter were mostly hit-or-miss, and I doubt they'll be as many this winter.

You do have to remember, the Q400 does have the range, but it also needs a a good load of people each time to make it pay, what with fuel being the cost it is now. Plus you have to look at the schedules, doing flights like these loses a hull for most of the day, so the other two will need to cover all the usual flights, and that would mean less MAN and LPL rotations. Otherwise, you'd have to fly in a fourth hull and crew to operate it which pushes the price right up too.

You can be certain, that if it is possible to make it pay, Flybe commercial will look at it. They don't miss many opportunities if they get a sniff at them.

Yesterday's delays were the result of that tech Q4 plus a last minute a/c change to get one of the others off to EXT for maintenance that couldn't wait and couldn't be fitted in earlier. Shame it was a Friday too, but the crews did their best.

the end result was about 11 flights late, out of 25 operated. A bad day granted, but you never hear about the rest that ran like clockwork though.......

[paulzenith]

Hi,

I looked up Euromanx on Companies House today and got nothing. So I put the Company No. up and got AVIATION MOBILE DESIGN SERVICES as the new name for Euromanx registered on 3 July 08. I thought Euromanx shareholders had agreed to go for a winding up order? Has someone bought them out already? Anyone know who Avionics Mobile Design Services is?

[Manxman11]

The liquidation in the IOM is for Euromanx Limited, co number 106272C. It is an IOM company and therefore will not appear on Companies House site. If you are so inclined you can purchase company documents in the public domain from the Isle of Man Companies Registry on the Isle of Man Financial Supervision website.

[paulzenith]

Thanks for that Manxman. I'm still slightly confused - sis the IOM Company belong to the same people who owned the UK registered company (RS, TS, DM)? Which registered Company was it that flew the last plane out of IOM on May 9th?

[Manxman11]

I believe the IOM company was the one which owned the assets such as the building etc, but the flights (again I think!) were operated by an Austrian Euromanx co, so as to who escaped with the last aircraft prior to impounding I'm not sure.

Sorry I can't be of more help - perhaps an ex-Euromanx insider might know?

[IOMspotter]

It was Austo max who had the AOC and employed the pilots so must have been them that flew it off. But was no doubt Austromanx crew operating at the instruction of Euromanx Directors which is the key bit.:ok:

[fredtheanorak]

:mad: awful IOM passenger numbers for June. TT-5% and market -5% = 10% down.............

VLM LCY thro the floor despite no 3W competition. what's goin on here, they should be cleaning up but theyre down on last year ( I know their times are c:mad: but they are better than last year):{:{

Eastern NCL looks dead in June. Whtll they do in the winter:{

[IOMspotter]

they should stop wasting £40m on a runway extension and now a new tower they don't need and sort out the horrendous IOM fuel costs and the pathetic situation where a bunch of stroppy airport employees handle all the bags airside.:eek: Theyve got prioritys all wrong:ooh:

[Ransman]

Heard on Manx Radio interview with Phil Gawne, whilst talking about the Ramsey Pier of all things, that the new tower was needed "to ensure the planes could land in bad weather" and "if you were a passenger trying to land in that said bad weather, you would be glad of the investment in the new tower". All praise the new tower! All this time I had thought it was down to the Pilots :eek: Silly me! (If you want to listen, it's here: http://www.manxradio.com/AudioVault/HeadsFRI-2.wma and his comments are 7mins 47 seconds into the recording. Coincidence?

[Otters2000]

Back to the pax numbers... are they stated as departing pax or total pax arriving and departing?? :confused:

[RVF750]

Fuel costs? I think it's not the Fuel cost at Ronaldsway that's the problem. In fact it's almost as dear at Gatwick now.

The pilots can only fly down to the minimums listed on the plates. The days of the old CAT3A Shorts 360s are long gone!

Getting the 26 ILS down to CAT2 would only save us on one perhaps two days a year, at great cost. Nothing like economical to do.

Improving the 08 ILS to get rid of the offset and lower the minimums down to 200ft would be far more useful.

If it hadn't been for Flybe's business model and the low cost of the Q400, I doubt there'd be much choice to the boat any more. Remember that next time you complain about the bag charges or whatever else.....

As to the loaders...some of them are very efficient, fast and great to work with. Some are most certainly not. I doubt Mr D is on anyone's Christmas list. Handling agents or Airport Management.

[Haven't a clue]

The 08 ILS offset is presumably because there is no room at the other end for the aerial array. Now if, say, someone was going to build a dirty great chunk of land out into the sea, there would be room, wouldn't there....

But hang on. Didn't I read somewhere that the 08 ILS kit was leased? Wonder how long for? Airport management will look pretty dumb if it can't be repositioned, or if they'd have to break the lease at huge cost to put in the right kit.

Or maybe that's already buried in the RESA costs, as well?

[Otters2000]

Thanks, midrif! :ok:

[SIERRATANGO99]

There's an emergency situation at Ronaldsway for the second time this week.
The airport is on "stand-by" after an incident involving what's thought to be a Flybe jet.
There are few officials details at the moment.
An eye witness reports the aircraft is sat on a taxi runway with the emergency chutes deployed.
Passengers were disembarked and taken to the terminal by bus.
Fire and Ambulance crews, along with police, attended the scene.



hoep everyone is ok, any update on this?

[ManxBoi]

A FLYBE flight between Manchester and Belfast had to make an emergency landing at Isle of Man Airport.
It involved Flybe's Manchester to Belfast City flight making an emergency diversion to the Isle of Man after the crew thought they could smell smoke.

There were 89 passengers on board, who had to escape via the emergency chutes.

A Flybe spokesman said: 'The aircraft, an Embraer 195, made an emergency descent into the Isle of Man Airport as a precautionary measure, landing at 13.17.

'Upon landing all passengers were disembarked as quickly as possible.

'The likely cause of the incident seems to be a failure of the air conditioning and circulation system.

'Flybe is arranging for all passengers to complete their journey to Belfast as quickly as possible and the runway has now re-opened.

'Flybe can confirm it has had no other similar incidents with any of its E195 fleet.'

An emergency services spokesman said: 'There were four minor casualties treated on scene and not taken to hospital and one female taken to hospital.'

Ambulance operations manager Ray Beattie said emergency services were deployed at just after 1pm after receiving reports of an aircraft coming in to land with smoke in the cockpit.

Flights out of the airport are being delayed.

The road by the airport was initially closed, but has now reopened

[FS01]

Loading of Aircraft + Privatisation = :ok:

Thats what IOM needs at the moment.

[GMANX]

Couldn't agree more FS01, overpaid and underworked but i suppose it will take the govt another 20 or so years to realise this. Privatisation canonly be a good thing!!

[virginblue]

Is the LCY route now gone for good?

Have the economics on the route been so terrible when euromanx operated it that Air France opb Cityjet opb VLM / Scot Airways could not be bothered to look into it? Three daily flights with a Dornier 328 instead of the daily Fokker 50 flight would not result in excessive capacity and also allow for connections to a number of places on the continent such as AMS, PAR, NCE, GVA, BRU, ANR, RTM, EIN etc.

Or is there so little banking-related / connecting traffic originating on the IOM that the services to LGW and LTN are serving all needs?

[PAXboy]

Pax numbers? Cost. I was due to pop up to help mother with packing the house but we found that (at two weeks notice) the LTN was going to be £187 before car parking at my end. Granted, I had to do a Friday evening to Sunday but that was just a waste of money. This means that I will not be on the Island again for a while. The main reasons for my mother (aged 82) to move is the time and cost for family to visit her from Hertfordshire (me) or Devon for my brother which is very tedious. Fortunately, she sold the house at the right time.

[Tonyq]

Virginblue...The Airport Director has stated regularly that active efforts to re-instate LCY are ongoing with interested airlines, however the issue seems to relate to slot availability at LCY, particulary for smaller aircraft. Appears that whatever 'grandfather rights' EMX had were lost in their collapse.

For time being business traffic must be going to LGW and, to a lesser extent, LTN.

Regarding the volume of business traffic, you need to remember that Jersey, which has a much bigger overall London market than IOM, has only a day-stopping LCY service with VLM, just like IOM, whilst Guernsey has no LCY at all. If the CI's can get by on this basis, then the case for IOM having access to LCY is hardly strengthened.

[virginblue]

tonyg,

true of course, although the overall number of flights to the greater LON area from both JER and GCI is bigger with LGW being served by two airlines from both airports plus flights to LHR, LCY and LTN from JER and to STN from GCI. This wide choice of LON flights, particularly those to LHR and STN, of course eats into a potential market for LCY flights.

If the AF group was really interested in a LCY, they would have some slots available after September 15 as they are axing a number of flights from LCY to the continent.

[pabely]

Have the EMX slots at LCY been taken up? I don't think so, so a window must still be open for another operator to take up the route.

[virginblue]

My understanding is that as long as an airline holds the slots, they can use them to whatever destination they like and for whatever equipment they want. So if the Air France group has some slots available (they will release three in mid-September and I do not recall that the Belfast slots have been replaced), they will have to use them at some point in order to grandfather them rather than seeing them handed over to BA or LH.

btw, is the rule really "no slots for props" or is it rather "no slots for 70 seats or less"? The Q400 is a prop and I doubt that LCY would want to rule that one out whereas 35 seat jets like the FRJ or ER3 would be allowed to serve LCY.

[FS01]

Whether it's true I am not sure, but as far as I am aware the slots used by 3W belonged to Flybe and were only borrowed by 3W

[RVF750]

They were for a while, but not at the end. Oh, and their value wasn't nearly as much as EMX's debt.

[Island Jockey]

London City slots cannot be sold so when the Euros stop using them they reverted to the airport to allocate as they saw fit.

FlyBe gave up the BHD-IOM-LCY route as Euros applied for the slots - with a RJ70.......

[RVF750]

To be more accurate, Flybe gave up the LCY operating when the Q400s replaced the BHD based little dash. Then Euromanx effectively leased the slots from Flybe for a while but that stopped and the slots reverted to EMX sometime last year (I think, but can't be certain).

Thus the value of EMX was the value of the slots, plus the freehold of the building they were in and their debts were far in excess of that value, hence no buyout.

[j41cac]

Aer Arann approached due to having 70 odd seater I was told.

Is there any truth in that?

Apparently, IOM Gov pushing for someone to take it on.

[virginblue]

The ATR72 is not certified for LCY, so Aer Arann is not a real option.

If 70 seats is really the threshold it would need to be a Q400 or BAe 146/Avro RJ operator - or an existing operator willing to use slots it already holds for an operation with a smaller aircraft (e.g. VLM or Cityjet by Scot when AF/KL cut back on the AMS route once the VG/WX merger is approved)

[Cloud1]

Flybe have definately ruled this one out I am afraid - Loganair have expressed interest but I think the 30-40 seat a/c does not match up with the desired a/c size of IOM Gov't

[Tonyq]

EMX used their 37 seat 200 series on LCY towards the end so a 33 seat Saab wouldn't be a big loss of capacity. It could easily provide 4000 seats per month which would be enough to meet historical demand.

From what has been reported locally, the IOM Govt. would jump at a Loganair option - more likely the problem is at LCY around slots for smaller a/c.

Also, would FlyBe be happy with Loganair flying the FlyBE brand to LCY in direct competition with their own IOM-LGW flights, which is where most business traffic must be now.

Maybe if the IOM Govt want to enhance the London travel experience for business people, they could try to persuade FlyBe to upgrade LGW to the EMB-195?

That said, having 3 identical Q400's based at Ronaldsway seems to give FlyBe more day to day operational flexibility than any of their recent predecessors enjoyed, and they might be reluctant to lose that, regardless of the capacity and image benefits a 195 would bring.

[assymetricdrift]

FlyBE will not operate Q400s into London City - despite all the rumours. It would involve a steep approach and a Flap 35 landing. It would certainly be tailstrike territory, and has hence been ruled out.

[Cloud1]

I am not so sure that is the reason - LUX use the Q400 at LCY.....it is more a Flybe decision rather than a/c restraints. I doubt Flybe would use the E195 to LGW as there is not sufficient demand on the route - that is to say not consistently high anyways. They could possibly use the E195 on the busier IOM-LGW service on a W Pattern through LGW but I doubt this will materialise.

[manxwind]

Well Blue Islands have finally released their winter timetable!

One flight M-F back to the 19 seat Jetstream 32 serving Jersey & Guernsey in some sort of triangle again, flashback to 2 1/5 years ago when they started the route! but timings are worse!

They aren't even an Leisure airline so will this increase for summer?! :uhoh:

[pabely]

"From what has been reported locally, the IOM Govt. would jump at a Loganair option - more likely the problem is at LCY around slots for smaller a/c."
A slot is a slot, whatever LCY want. Flybe are now in bed with Loganair.......

[Tonyq]

"A slot is a slot, whatever LCY want. Flybe are now in bed with Loganair......."

Sorry, I for one, don't understand the point you are making?

Are you suggesting that FlyBe control these slots? If so, that idea was scotched earlier in this thread. The slots are said to be controlled by LCY who decide who they are allocated to.

[JulietNovemberPapa]

I’m looking forward to my brief visit to the IOM next week. I’ll be flying BHD-IOM-LBA. Is there a café with a good view of the activity? Cheers.

[Haven't a clue]

One flight M-F back to the 19 seat Jetstream 32 serving Jersey & Guernsey in some sort of triangle again, flashback to 2 1/5 years ago when they started the route! but timings are worse!

Oh dear - I have a problem understanding why a business oriented airline (or so I thought) drops its schedule in this way. As far as I can see from watching people board this flight (once a week I'm on the 0955 to LGW, before you wonder where my webcam is) there's about 10-15 people mid week; more on Mon/Fri. Not enough to justify the D328.

But then again I took the family (as did many others on the IoM) to JER for a holiday this year. And last year. And the year before that. This year I paid the same rate as the business guys - around GBP280 round trip per person. Not far off what I have paid before for BA or BE through LGW with an horrendous 5 hour wait. Why on earth can't BI offer a leasure fare and promote the route enthusiastically in the IoM? I think there would be many takers.

[Haven't a clue]

a café with a good view of the activity

Airside Ronaldsway is as good as it gets, but if you are in IoM for a while get a cab round to Manx Flyers and watch the action from the end of Runway 26 with cup of tea in yer mit!.

[JulietNovemberPapa]

Airside Ronaldsway


Do you mean a spot in the airside area, or is there a cafe called Airside Ronaldsway?

[flightlevel26]

JNP, go to Manx Flyers, excellent view of R26 from there. Avoid the airport restaurant at all costs if you value your health, it's awful.


Don't you agree lads?

Cheers,
FL26

[JulietNovemberPapa]

Thanks for the Manx Flyers recommendation, but I won't have much time so would prefer to remain within the terminal. I won't be requiring lunch, so I'll stick to coffee. :-)

[FS01]

FL26 good call

[fredtheanorak]

I once had a coffee from IOM Airport restaurant. Week later failed my medical:eek: but don't let me put you off. Rumour is that one pax even ate the reheated curry thats always on display and lived to tell the tale:}:}:}

[jabberwok]

Rumour is that one pax even ate the reheated curry thats always on display and lived to tell the tale

I'm sorry but I really would require documentary evidence to believe that.. :E

[RVF750]

Actually the muffins can actually be quite nice if you get them the first month they're on display.....Wouldn't risk the curry though.....

A pack of sweets from the shop next door is all I'd dare, and then again, it's cheaper to drive up the road to the petrol station to get them!

Oh for a Costa's instead!

[flightlevel26]

That's because the muffins are packaged and imported. They aren't prepared in Hell's Kitchen lol.

How they havn't been closed down I will never know! I love the way they spray the Rice with Water to keep it moist, imminent food poisioning possible!

[FS01]

I heard that Costa, Burger King and a Harry Ramsdens on the way to Isle of Man International Airport or was I dreaming ...... or was it the curry :ok:

[flightlevel26]

FS01, I think you're dream of Costa coming here to Ronaldsway is a distant dream, or the hallucinations from the Curry, coffee or anything else from Hells Kitchen that's not packaged.

When will the Airport Director face up to the fact that things need to change in that place, it's embarracing!

[JulietNovemberPapa]

I was at IOM on Tuesday. I had the fish-and-chips. Overall was pretty good.

[jetstreamtechrecords]

Blue Islands new winter IOM JER timetable is cr*p . BEs SOU timetable disappears imminently so come on Mr :mad:Lake, stop wasting your time with NCL and BHX and go to JER or SOU (or even IOM-SOU-JER-SOU-IOM) instead:ok:

[FS01]

midrif an arm marches on it's stomach.. but you do make a point... quiet week in IOM? :confused:

[paulzenith]

Just looked on Companies house to see the current status of Euromanx - looking at documents filed there is no mention of liquidation and the company is active under the name Avionics Mobile Design services Ltd. Very confusing - does anyone know what this company is and what did happen to Euromanx? Is this another management buyout?

[jetstreamtechrecords]

Further to my post of 5/9 seems BCI have beaten everyone to the SOU JER leg but still leaves IOM SOU needing a service;) Come on Mr L, 3 x daily IOM SOU pls:ok::ok:, IOM BHX down to once only. Scrap NCL:suspect::suspect:

[HMN851X]

jetstreamtechrecords lets not talk about scrapping the Newcastle route as this is alife line service for people on the Island going to the Freeman Hospital
:ouch:

[Ursus arctica]

paulzenith, you're looking in the wrong country. The Euromanx that's in liquidation was an Isle of Man company, not a UK one. Try going to Financial Supervision Commission - Companies Registry Public View (http://www.fsc.gov.im/pvi/pvi_fr.html) and searching on Euromanx there.

UA

[Wingspanner]

HI, Does anyone have any information about the Private Jet Company which was mentioned in the local press lately. Is it a management company or do they have an AOC? What is this about them starting an FBO? Thanks, Wingspanner

[FS01]

Sounds like the rock is getting a cargo link with LPL:

Isle of Man Air Cargo Link Returnshttp://www.manx.net/images/spacer.gifDate Submitted: 25/09/2008 17:18:56Source: JQAfter an absence of more than two years, the Isle of Man will again have a scheduled daily cargo link with Liverpool. Janes Aviation has announced today that it will commence the morning arrival and evening departing flights to Liverpool from next Monday, 29th September.

The new Janes service will overcome a major problem that the Island has struggled with for two years – the ability to be able to offer an overnight service for cargo to and from the Island.

Flights will be able to deliver cargo to the Island first thing every weekday morning, departing from Liverpool at 07.00 and arriving at Isle of Man Airport at 07.35, so that Island companies can benefit from deliveries to their door at the start of the business day. The evening flight to Liverpool will consolidate consignments at the end of the day to depart from the Island at 18.20, arriving at Liverpool at 18.55.

Janes Aviation will use a British Aerospace BAe748 aircraft for the schedule, capable of carrying up to 6.25 tonnes of cargo and with a substantial volume available of 55 cubic metres.

Freight operators and the Island’s commercial community have welcomed the return of the route, last operated in April 2006. For the Airport, this will mean the reversal of falling air cargo tonnage passing through the Airport, which collapsed from some 2,300 tonnes in 2005, to just 550 tonnes in 2007.

Ann Reynolds, Airport Director for the Isle of Man Airport, welcomed the return of the scheduled cargo link.

She said: “The figures speak for themselves, with air cargo falling by over 75% when the previous service ceased operation, so I am sure that the overnight service will rapidly regenerate the volume of air cargo passing through the Airport. I am delighted that Janes Aviation has decided to restore this valuable route and I understand that it has already had a very positive response from the Island’s freight industry.”

Janes Aviation is based at Southend Airport and has a fleet of two BAe748s - a well proven, reliable twin turboprop aircraft. The aircraft for the Isle of Man to Liverpool route will be based at Liverpool but will remain at the Isle of Man during each weekday.

Andy Janes, Managing Director and founder of the airline, is confident that the route will develop steadily over the coming months.

“We know that the demand for an overnight cargo operation from the Isle of Man is as strong as ever and we will be offering a simple, cost effective solution,” he said.

“In the past, the service supported two flights daily, so we are confident that the capacity on our single daily service will soon be taken up. After all, with the availability once again of an overnight product, businesses and residents on the Island will quickly choose this option and I anticipate that additional flights may be needed in the future.”

Minister for Transport, David Anderson MHK, said: “It was a major blow for the commercial sector, and the Airport, when the previous air cargo link was lost two years ago, so it is great to see the link re-established. It’s important, however, that the commercial sector makes good use of the new service to ensure its continuing viability.”

If it works then it's good news! :ok:

http://images2.jetphotos.net/img/1/4/7/9/55953_1211356974_tb.jpg

[Grand yahoo]

I think that this is the re-birth out of Emerald wish them all the best.

[lfc84]

:eek: Really

[The Shop Floor]

Emerald = Janes = Emerald

Emerald Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Airways)

The CAA must have been satisfied at the changes made.....

[IOMspotter]

I hear BE are cutting both LPL and MAN to 3x daily this winter:confused:. Is this so they can drop a plane and keep all the NW on one airplane. Shurely not?:eek: would cause mayhem when its claggie.

[EMX81L]

Its mainly Tues and Wed that see cuts on LPL and MAN, as they operate 3 and 4 flights respectively on those days. Mon, Thurs, Fri BE will operate 4 x LPL and 5 x MAN. Same sort of thing for BHX aswell. LTN is cut to single daily bar Wed, and SOU is cut altogether.

In total, in the region of 17 or 18 flights a week have been cut. Still using all island based 3 Dash 8 Q400 for winter

[The Shop Floor]

A spare airframe available for more of the time won't be a bad thing either.

More time off too...:) or will it be airport standby:yuk:

[j41cac]

Is Eastern to do the SOU?

[FS01]

Nope, from what I have heard they won't consider it as BE returning to the route for Summer '09. :ok: Although Manxy2 may...

[Tonyq]

There also selected mid-week dates in Jan and Feb 2009, where IOM-LGW is down to three round trip flights.

This all looks like prudent matching of capacity to projected demand, and is a very sensible approach, to maintain yields and profitability at slack time of year and in uncertain economic circumstances.

Incidentally, some summer 2009 seats released today on IOM-LGW, and selected other routes. Lots of availability right now at £69 return, which isn't bad, all things considered.

[IOMspotter]

IOM LPL down to 3x daily in Jan too. Any truth that they've got Manx2 looking to keep SOU route warm for them this winter?:O

[jetstreamtechrecords]

Eastern not doing SOU this winter. Maybe M2 are cuddling up to FlyBe ?

[Feet on ground]

Let's face it, if you don't cuddle up to flybe, it's only a matter of time before they roll over and squash you!

[kirkbymoorside]

Might be interesting to see Manx2 try SOU especially as it has great train service into London but if Flybe do look like coming back in Summer there would really be no point starting.

[j41cac]

ManxPoo on a let410 to SOU, no tah:eek:

[manxramper]

Just heard - 2 of my former colleagues were hauled up into the new security managers office (who has absolutely no experience of security apart from the fact her partner is employed by AVSEC - jobs for the boys again in IOM!) for voicing their opinions, good on you both lots of people here backing you up!

[fsiom]

there is a list as people as long as my arm who left regional n support because of this "manager". wonder ow many will last it out with her at security

[IOMspotter]

IOM LCY here we come . Aer Arran 3x daily next month. :O:O:O

[This is a crisis]

Just curious, who does this so called 'Security Manager' work for? Is she FS? Certainly, AFAIK there is so female Head of Security employed by the airport.

[RVF750]

En excellent way of losing money faster than you could burn it.

[manxramper]

Did anyone say she was employed by airport? If you work there you should know Crisis

[Feet on ground]

Do you mean flying IOM-LCY 3v times a day?

What evidence is there that AA will do this?

[IOMspotter]

Shure do, 3x rotations a day:ok: masses of IOM Gov. marketing support money behind it too I heard so maybe itll fly:D

[Flightrider]

Awful times won't help. First flight arriving into London City at 09:50 is even worse than the Euromanx ones! Wonder if this will see the light of day with the impending cutbacks at Aer Arann.

[jetstreamtechrecords]

Kra:mad: LCY times as no decent slots are available. Manx government handout should ensure it does OK financially :hmm:and it probably suits AA as theyll have a use for one of the planes they are freeing up in Ireland with the cutbacks. Saab 2000 would have been better than ATR though:cool:

[fredtheanorak]

AA cutbacks Aer Arran cuts 100 jobs - WalesOnline (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business-in-wales/business-news/2008/10/20/aer-arran-cuts-100-jobs-91466-22074370/)

[virginblue]

What type of aircraft will Aer Arann be using? The ATR72 is not certified for LCY, IIRC, and I thought the ATR42s were on their way out at Aer Arann?

[IOMspotter]

looking at all the AA cutbacks theyll certainly have planes and crew to spare. Spose it depends if there new CEO feels like punting on a new route while hes pulling back hard elsewhere:confused:

[Haven't a clue]

IOMSpotter, you said:

IOM LCY here we come . Aer Arran 3x daily next month

Then you said:

3x rotations a day masses of IOM Gov. marketing support money behind it too I heard so maybe itll fly

Now you say:

Spose it depends if there new CEO feels like punting on a new route while hes pulling back hard elsewhere

Not a lot of certainty there, then?

Be nice to have LCY back as an option, but throwing an extra say 6000 seats a month at it will never work. Unless the price is right of course; and then it will never work....

[FS01]

Really can't see LCY working as an RE route. If the sources of this story are as i heard are true then it's not to be believed. Also will the 70+ seat rule not be an issue?

[virginblue]

Further to my earlier post, as per the LCACC website, the ATR72 indeed is no option for LCY. I seem to remember that ATR is thinking about certifying the new ATR72-600 for LCY in a couple of years.

That means AA will need to keep at least one ATR42 for LCY. Does not fit in with the overall fleet size of 8 or 9 aircraft as at the end of 2009 the previous plan showed 10 ATR72-500 in the fleet.

[IOMspotter]

If you check slot allocations at LCY youll see AA have been allocated LCYIOM slots:ok:. Maybe when they applied they planned to use them but could all be different now theyve been credit crunched:confused:

[Feet on ground]

IOMS

How do you check LCY slot allocations?

[fredtheanorak]

https://www.online-coordination.com/Default.aspx?tabid=DefaultPage:ok:

[afs1]

Read in the local rag that the business lounge license is being transfered to a company called Platinum Holdings on Thurs any idea who this is

[afs1]

No need to reply - new owners are the previous owners

[Skipness One Echo]

If you check slot allocations at LCY youll see AA have been allocated LCYIOM slots

What the Hell are American Airlines doing flying Ronaldsway to London City for? Is it a BA codeshare....? *cough*

[IOMspotter]

seems FlyBe are cutting LPL frequency further in Jan:{, Manxy2 seem to have dropped a SAT GLO:{ but Im told Aer Arran LCY announcement next week:ok:. Not all gloom at Ronaldsway:}

[RVF750]

Frequency cuts at BE are for a good reason. Airlines have traditionally lost fortunes over the 3rd and forth quarter...flying empty aircraft about with what passengers are on, all on loss-leader fares. BA are masters at it.

Of, course, Traditionally, airlines go skint too, and flybe are trying to avoid this by cutting the quiet flights and putting folk onto the remaining flights.

Moan you might, but they don't cut the first or last flights, and they give pax a good few weeks notice and don't charge anything else to change them.

This way, you still have an airline next year........

[Haven't a clue]

Cuts understood, but FlyBe need to look at adding another LGW rotation afternoon/evening on Fridays and Sundays....these are filling up quickly, probably because there's no LCY/IOM option, and there's only one LTN.

Cost me a fortune to come home via MAN (with BA) last week!

[CarbHeatIn]

AER ARANN DEBUT AT LONDON CITY ON ISLE OF MAN ROUTE

Irish regional airline Aer Arann will be a new airline at London City Airport when it commences scheduled air services from the Isle of Man on 19 January, 2009. The Dublin-based carrier will operate three times daily flights with its latest, 72-seat new-generation ATR72-500 aircraft, pending certification. The move restores one of the most important air services for the Island and gives a massive boost to the Isle of Man’s finance sector. “From the start of next year, regular flights will be available to London’s premier business airport, less than four miles from London’s commercial and financial heartland at Canary Wharf,” commented Isle of Man Airport Director Ann Reynolds.

The Island has retained just one flight a day to City Airport (operated by VLM) since the closure of the airline, EuroManx, in May this year. Aer Arann’s announcement restores the weekday frequency to four daily flights and, critically for the Island’s business sector, provides the much missed morning and evening services, enabling Isle of Man travellers a full day’s work in the Capital. The first flight from the Island will depart at 08:25, arriving at London City at 09:50. The return evening flight allows almost 10 hours in London, departing at 19:45 and arriving at the Isle of Man at 21:05. In addition, there will be an afternoon flight departing from the Island at 13:55, which returns from London City at 15:45 for those requiring a shorter day in the Capital. As well as the three daily flights on weekdays, Aer Arann will also operate a service on Saturday mornings, plus two flights on Sunday evenings, catering for more leisure driven traffic.

The Aer Arann Isle of Man route will also bring another first to London City Airport as its debuts the 72-seat ATR72-500. It will be the first of its type to operate into London City, bringing high standards of passenger service to the route. Aer Arann is currently participating in a certification programme with the manufacturer, ATR, the UK Civil Aviation Authority and London City Airport.

The Isle of Man Airport has been working since May to restore the schedule the Island so desperately needs. There were a number of critical issues which presented challenges, including the securing by Aer Arann of London City “slots” for the route, coupled with the current economic downturn, but both the Airport and Aer Arann are confident about the future of the route.

“The Isle of Man to London City route has performed consistently well since it commenced in 2000, carrying an average of 5,500 passengers per month flying between the two airports in 2007,” said Ann. “Although VLM has continued to operate its daily service originating from London, the monthly average has recently dropped to less than 1,000 passengers. We know that Isle of Man business and commerce have suffered substantially without the frequent service to London City and, despite the economic situation, there is still heavy demand for the route.”




Isle of Man Minister of Transport, David Anderson MHK is delighted with the Aer Arann announcement. “We are in no doubt whatsoever about the value of a frequent link with London City with good timings to meet the Island’s business needs,” he said. “Aer Arann showed real enthusiasm for the route and I am over the moon that they have decided to take it up and have managed to obtain the London City timings we all desperately need. This is a real boost to the Island’s business travel and again helps to make the Isle of Man the very attractive offshore commercial centre that it is.”

DTI Minister David Cretney MHK said "The London City route has proved to be very valuable for the Isle of Man’s economy by providing a convenient link to the centre of London both for our business community and for business visitors from London and internationally. I am delighted to see the restoration of a frequent service to London City by Aer Arann, with the excellent timings they have obtained, and I know this will be enthusiastically welcomed throughout the Island's business community."

“This new route is an example of the focus that Aer Arann is placing on building a strong business by developing a regional route structure that provides critical links and access to major centres”, said Aer Arann CEO designate, Paul Schütz.

“The schedule offers excellent access opportunities for the business and financial services community who need to travel frequently between the two airports”, he continued, “and it also offers very convenient travel times for leisure passengers who want easy access to central London or to the Isle of Man,”, Mr. Schütz concluded.

Due to its close proximity to London’s primary commercial and business centre, which celebrated its 21st birthday this year together with the Docklands Light Railway link into the airport, London City is highly sought after for business travel to the capital. As a result, it has been increasingly difficult for airlines to secure good business timings for flights into the airport. “This has been a key issue for the restoration of the London City route for the Island,” added Ann. “We are very pleased that Aer Arann has obtained these London City timings and will be working with them to ensure that they remain available for the Isle of Man route in the future.”

The future winter timetable for the Isle of Man (IOM) to London City (LCY) route, including the existing VLM (VG) as well as the new Aer Arann (RE) flights, is shown below.









Isle of Man (IOM) to London City (LCY)
Flight No. Dep IOM Arr
LCY Days of operation
RE801 0825 0950 MTWTFS-
RE805 1355 1520 MTWTF-S
VG664 1540 1715 MTWTF--
RE807 1755 1920 MTWTF-S
London City (LCY) to Isle of Man (IOM)
Flight No. Dep LCY Arr IOM Days of operation
VG664 0830 0955 MTWTF--
RE802 1015 1140 MTWTFS-
RE806 1545 1710 MTWTF-S
RE808 1945 2105 MTWTF-S

For further information: Ann Reynolds, Airport Director,
Isle of Man Airport Tel: 01624 821601

Andrew Kelly, Corporate Affairs
Aer Arann Tel: +353 1 844 7647

[San Expiry]

Well done Aer Arann. I hope they make a better go of it than some of their previous efforts off the Rock. VLM had been looking a gift horse in the mouth for 6 months on this route; unbelievable it didn't exploit the opportunity to clean up on LCY although hands may have been tied by the Cityjet takeover. Good news for the Island.:D

[lhuingysaer]

Thank god. I am so tired of Gatwick and Luton!
Well done. X

[virginblue]

Interesting. I did not expect the ATR72 to be certified for LCY.

[RVF750]

Hmm.

5000 pax per month. Divided by two airlines allowing for weekends, RE would be splitting their share about 175 ways, so that would be roughly 28 pax on each flight, supposing they got 100% of the share.

And that's with some cheap seats offered, not just all premium.

They'll be charged for a 70+seater anyway, so no point keeping a -42, but unless they really push fares to pull traffic off the LGW and LTN routes, then they'll struggle to make much profit.

If Flybe keeps the LGW fares keen, then only premium traffic will switch back and with the slots, only some of them, as you only get a half day.....

Haven't a Clue, Flybe have been looking into extra capacity on the LGW route as a priority, so depending on the impact RE make, something will likely happen for next year.

[afs1]

Well Done & Congrats to RE

I just hope this forum is now not going to used a RE bashing forum the same as it was when EuroManx operated this route.

In tough times, handouts or not, Aer Arann Tony Norman and Ann Reynolds are to be congratulated on making this happen. I'm sure it will be a success as the capital deserves competition on its routes. At least now we will be able to get a decent weekend break in London without the huge baggage charges and Gatwick express fares. I wish the Irish boys all the best.

[j41cac]

I have to agree, well done Aer Arran for taking on the LCY. Would rather them than Maybe on any occasion, any competition is healthy for the London routes.:D

Sick of Gatwick then express into Victoria. :ugh:

[virginblue]

They'll be charged for a 70+seater anyway, so no point keeping a -42, but unless they really push fares to pull traffic off the LGW and LTN routes, then they'll struggle to make much profit.


As the press release also mentions "slots"as one of the problems that had to be solved, I guess that they had to put an ATR72 on the route as allegedly LCY does not offer new slots for anything up to 50 seats (which leaves the question how Sun Air recently got their slots for LCY-BLL - the only explanation may be that they got them from the BA slot pool) - unless Aer Arann (or the IOM) bought the slots at LCY from someone else.

[Island Jockey]

'As the press release also mentions "slots"as one of the problems that had to be solved, I guess that they had to put an ATR72 on the route as allegedly LCY does not offer new slots for anything up to 50 seats (which leaves the question how Sun Air recently got their slots for LCY-BLL - the only explanation may be that they got them from the BA slot pool) - unless Aer Arann (or the IOM) bought the slots at LCY from someone else.@

LCY slots cannot be traded - bought or sold. However another operator could 'lend slots' for the winter with the agreement of all concerned. While a new operator makes an application. In the present finacial situation existing operators may be trimming back their operation.

Only slots at LGW, LHR, STN & MAN allocated by ACL are traded. However 'Sky Space' if available is no good if there is no stands available on the ground.

LCY arrivals at peak periodseg before 09:15 is subject to an additional charge -£300 at last check.

Good luck to RE getting IOM-LCY

[virginblue]

However 'Sky Space' if available is no good if there is no stands available on the ground.

You are right, of course, that during peak times the limiting factor at LCY used to be apron capacity rather than runway capacity. But hasn't this problem been solved to some extent with the new east apron at LCY? Or has all additional peak time capacity been snapped up by the incumbents already? This could very well be as I seriously doubt that the first arrival into LCY scheduled for 0950 is the result of a commercial decision (surprised that nobody has commented on the schedule so far). That's a bit late - or are you guys on the rock late-risers :O ?

[FS01]

Fair play to RE they have done well to pull this off.. Without wanting to have a go at 'RE bashing' I will be interested to see if this route will be viable. 72-500 is a nice a/c and compares well with the Q400 although I cannot see it making a massive dent in BE figures.... we shall see. Best of luck!

[IOMspotter]

You heard it here first a month ago and didnt believe it. (LCY) Now believe this. BE will have megga megga :mad: tantrum:ouch: and drop LGW to 3x daily and LPL to 3x daily for summer 2009.:eek:

[Haven't a clue]

Yes, my apologies to you IOMspotter for suggesting you might be wrong....

As BE were only too aware of the "Airports Board" (showing me age) intention of getting the LCY route re-instated one would imagine that they would probably react by dropping the Luton service they were encouraged to introduce. Whatever happens we will enjoy a mini fares bonanza to LCY for a while, and it will be interesting to see whether BE reduce their LGW fares back to the levels they charged when oil was dear.

[AndyH52]

IOMspotter - why should the LPL fequency be a casualty because of this new route? Did you mean LTN??

[j41cac]

check out the fares to city:D

Well done Aer Arran, about time too.

Flybe go and have a good sulk. Mike Rutter is a major :mad: anyway.

Use the LPL lately and fares have been, lets say a bit pricey to say the least.

Competition appreciated if A Arran would like to reinstate a few LTN's and LPL's ( if at all possible).

[EI-BUD]

IOM LCY here we come . Aer Arran 3x daily next month


Above was the comment by Iomspotter in September.

Well done IOMSPOTTER you were right on this rumour and I didnt think it would happen. You proved yourself to be a good source of information!

EI-BUD

[fredtheanorak]

and heel be right about a tantrum from BE.I bet threats to cut back in LGW, LTN have already been made:ooh: Ann Reynolds phone must have been red hot :\and the air blue :E

And for LPL BE are slowly running it down to favour MAN hub so any excuse to cut a rotation and up fares and push SLF into MAN will be taken:eek: FlyBe are becoming the uk version of Ryanair :rolleyes:with all the good bits and bad bits of the Ryanair model including bullying airports :ouch:and tantrums:E

[Capt. Horrendous]

The Flybe LGW and LTN routes were good before EMX folded and will probably continue to be so after January.

Flybe were asked to look at LCY, and were aware that the IOM Govt were doing all they could to get it returned. I would be amazed if anyone was having a sulk.

Selling tickets on a route which has not yet seen approval for the aircraft type is a bold move, although they must be fairly confident - mustn't they ?.

[IOMspotter]

BE didnt want LCY as it would have diluted LGW and LTN. They probly gambled IOM wouldnt find anyone brave enough to start LCY in the middle of winter during a financial crunch.:ooh:

3x daily is a very ballsy move by Arran:ok: and will need cheep fares to shift all those seats.:D

We ll see if BE are going to turn into another Ryanair. Lots of signs already. Web prices dont include taxes and charges up front:{ £13 to check a bag:{ pay for seat selection:{ try and make you buy insurance:{ enormus credit card charges:{. Have you seen all the self check in booths at Ronaldsway? Pay to check in at the desk is next:{:{

[JobsaGoodun]

With all due respect BE have 'been there, done that' with the IOM-LCY route before. They were the first operator and the I doubt that the volume is there to necessitate a Q400 capacity service.

There is little point in re-training crews specifically for LCY or re-equipping their Q400 fleet (as I understand it, LCY requires steep approach modified aircraft) unless there is a significant gain.

BE still have an RE ATR on lease so I very much doubt the two airlines will fall out over this.

[Cloud1]

I have never heard such a load of bol**ks for a while. This is not the school playground you know, these are two businesses. I dont expect Flybe give a monkeys about Aer Arran to LCY as many have pointed out it was expected. Flybe will still have a lot of people using their LGW for connections.

They will not 'have a tantrum' but may adjust their schedules in accordance with supply and demand - something which only professional carriers do to remain profitable.

[FS01]

Sounds like it's time to take a step back!

Firstly why would BE have a 'tantrum'? They are still, and will be for a good while yet, the Islands main carrier. Personally I feel a bit of competition is good for the market. BE have said before they have no interest in LCY if they did it would have happened already. LCY and LGW/LTN have existed alongside each other before and they will do again.

Secondly despite all of it's good points some people will still choose to travel through LGW and LTN.

As for prices, as the flights for LCY have been on sale for a few days there are bound to be loads of cheap seats available, BE flights have been on sale for best part of the year already so cheap seats will have gone. Also maybe it's just me but when Euromanx had no competition with BE I don't recall their prices shall we say 'low'!!

[Haven't a clue]

And therein lies the rub, alas. Can I, for example, book my usual trip in January using the 0955 to LGW which gets me there in good time to make my next flight, or will I find that the 0955 is cancelled (due to demand...) and my travel plans require revision?

Once upon a time a timetable could be relied on. Not any more, sadly!

[FS01]

Haven't a clue if you have seen the punctuality figures for IOM LGw in recent months you would know they are as good as if not better than they were with BA. The same goes for the majority of other BE routes from IOM.... anyway this thread is turning into BE bashing

[Haven't a clue]

Nope, not bashing. Merely reflecting as a frequent flier on Cloud1's comment on adjusting schedules.

And yes, the punctuality figures are now very good. Flew 4 BE sectors last week, all were early; 4 sectors the week before (plus one BA to MAN cos both Fri pm LGW flights were full) all early or on time; only 2 the week before that (was that when the baggage system at IoM broke...) with IIRC only one slightly delayed etc. With 4 returns each day to LGW at convenient for me timings I'll probably carry on using BE to London, although RE may get a look in on a morning or afternoon return from LCY. Otherwise their timetable doesn't really work for me.

Pat on the back for BE, actually.

[Haven't a clue]

Stunned you into silence eh?

Try this:

RE hand baggage 7 kg (size 8x11x17ins,20cm x 28cm x 43cm); BE 10 kg (50cm x 35cm x 23cm) so BE let you carry more
RE hold baggage 15k, BE 20kg (RE excess per kg 6.50 = +£32.50 less 7.99 to = BE)

Hmmm...

HaC

[FS01]

Another issue with regards reliability is slots at LCY. Some days the LCY can be plagued with slot times causing delays, not so much a feature at LGW/LTN. And that is a fair comparison with regards baggage, again it depends what you are looking, unfortunately people often only take notice of the lowest available fare and not the 'add ons'

[afs1]

I maybe missing the point about the baggage issue,
however I was not charged anything for baggage when I flew to Dublin last week and I was not charged to check in at the airport was I lucky or is this the norm.

[part69]

What an embarrassment to isle of man this thread is:mad:

[RVF750]

Err no.

What it is, is good old informed discussion, and not Be Bashing or whatever. HAC and others have genuine reasons for bringing points up. This is the point of allowing SLF onto Pprune, and it informs those companies who keep an eye on it as well.

HAC, don't panic about cancelled LGW rotations, with the loads, there's no chance of that in the near future. BE's on time performance from the Island is running second in the whole network, and only not first due to problems with slots in and out of mainland europe that primarily affect the BHX route. The Flight Support staff are a major contributer to this, well done to all of them.

Here's a moan, why do folk check in near the last minute, and complain when they can't get seats together? They could check in on-line 4 hours earlier, they could pay the extra, but feel it's right that the 70 others who checked in before them should move so they can sit together. some folk, eh?

Back on topic, if it's valid, post it. Please just try to be constructive when ever you can. Hopefully BE and RE management read this occasionally...

[This is a crisis]

Dash & Thump

In the old days of BA Connect, if there was more than one of you they would pre-asign seats so you could all sit together....

why can't flybe do that? or is it a deilberate ploy to make a bit more money?

[granddaddy]

Got it in one!!:ok:

[liffy2A]

For all its worth An ATR72 500 has payload less than a Q400 of nearly 7 tons, That is probably why the carry on weight and checking weight vary From FlyBe. Arann do not charge for bags checked in like alot of other carriers. You are aloud to carry 22kgs with Are Arann, 15 check in and 7 hand, I think that is suffecient for the busniess pax on such a short route.

P.s. I hope these last few post will be moved to SLF

[PAXboy]

Dash&ThumpHere's a moan, why do folk check in near the last minute, and complain when they can't get seats together
They will - within about another five years. As the older generation that are not computer users stop flying, and each new year of first time pax that have grown up with computers ... then the problem will go away! :)

[RVF750]

I partly agree.

Though I did see a quite elderly couple walk straight up to the Self Service Terminal and check themselves in today...so they aren't all computer-shy.

The reason BA Connect seemed to pre-assign you together was that Manx Regional staff, mostly ex Manx Airlines old-school superstars, would go through the bookings the night before and manually put you all together for the next day. Way beyond the call of duty and something they never got enough thanks for. The Flybe system doesn't give you that nice option.

However, the reality is the check in staff at IOM do a sterling job of helping folk sit together. The flybe shares system does automatically spread you about, primarily to make sure the a/c trims perfectly, no matter where or how many no-shows occur. The Staff on check-in "force" the system for couples and families by swapping seats manually to get you all together, and when the loads are high, the last ones to check in simply have to lump it. to get them together would mean asking couples who made the effort to check in in good time to split up and that's not fair really.

The extra charge allows you to effectively short cut the bit about checking in early. Good for families like us who are nearly always lastminute.com on such occasions....

But like any business, additional services = additional revenue streams. That's the modern way.

[FS01]

It also varies between airlines with regards policies... Th other thing is a 'group' who all book individually and have seperate reference numbers who is to tell they are travelling together before arrival at the airport. Online check-in is best or people who 'MUST' sit together.

[uncovered]

News from Exeter. New routes being planned from IOM to BHD and BLK. Gather the BLK may be driven by a deal with Balfour Beatty (owners of EXT and BLK).

[jetstreamtechrecords]

Best thing Manxy2 could do is take BE to OFT for unfair trading practices. Eastern should have done it over BHX and SOU. Wheres BEs double daily BHX now:confused: and as for the daily SOU - disappeared 6 months after they took Easterns daily SOU off the route. All BE want is 100% of the market. simple. its called monopoly:{:{

[IOMspotter]

Didnt realise we had such a thing hear but JTRs' correct. Its on the iomgov OFT website:8

Competition Investigations

The Office is given increased powers under the Fair Trading Act to deal with the anti-competitive practices of individual businesses. The Act does not mention monopolies but there has to be a degree of market power exercised by any business under investigation before they can be adjudged as carrying on an anti-competitive practice which is against the public interest.
IOMOFT - Fairtrading & Competition - Isle of Man Government Office of Fair Trading (http://www.gov.im/oft/tradingstandards/fairtrading.xml)

[RVF750]

I wouldn't bet anything on new routes like these. They are not likely to be busy, and Flybe's business model needs bums on seats. BLK simply will not do that unless it pulls bums off the LPL services. a 19 seater works well to both BLK and BHD.

Any planning would be for at least a year hence by now. S09 is sorted, and W09 would only be a reduction in frequency to match demand. Certainly not new routes.

S10? You never know.

Exeter has far bigger fish on the fryer right now to put too much into messing about with the IOM operation. It's ticking along nicely and the reliability is nearly the best in the network.

[JobsaGoodun]

Exeter certainly has bigger fish to fly but Loganair's SF340's would be the perfect size to compete with Manx2 on BHD and BLK.

Maybe we will see Flybe return to this old route!

[fredtheanorak]

yo ho ho. :mad:Yessir would be good to see flybe or its franchiseee appear on another route into IOM trying to expand their 75% market share. NOT. :{When youre paying £200+ now for a return to LPL:eek: I agree it would need OFT boys brought in:E. OFT would love a proper chance to get stuck into BEs fares. Like how come the passenger tax from LPL to IOM changes from flight to flight:confused: could it be that their tax charges are in the same league as Gordon Browns knife crime statistics? ie total :mad:. yessir.

[RVF750]

You're paying £200 return to LPL because you waited too late to book. Pure and simple.

The flights have very good load factors on many flights now, and this means the expensive seats are all that is left.

Many passengers sat next to you paid a lot less than this, and twas ever thus.

It was no different in Manx Airlines days. Once the cheap seats had gone, you had to either pick a different flight or dig deep in your pockets.

That's business, in any colour you paint an aircraft/train or ferry.

You can't whinge to the OFT for something like this, unless you want to give them a laugh, life just doesn't work like that.

History is a good starting point. ANY route to/from the Isle of Man that has had two or more operators on it has lost money, sometimes spectacularly. The Catchment area and traffic levels are just not big enough. If they were, the Big Orange and Irish Harp would be sat at Ronaldsway long before now.

The choice is always yours, book early, be flexible on your times and you can get a reasonable price. Any company that has a regular and busy business customer base will ensure the last seats remain available till very late on, for last minute business travel, and the way that happens is with pricing. Always was, always will be.

Sorry about that.

[FS01]

BE Southampton is returning for Summer 2009 and BHX is twice daily monday, thursday and friday. This is getting into the realms of BE bating!! Whats the problem with a route only operating during the Summer?? How many other airlines have seasonal routes?? A lot!

Flybe operating SOU means that the route is available to people who could otherwise not afford Easterns fares!

[IOMspotter]

Dash & T is right that when theres two airlines on IOM routes it never lasts:{ but I dont agree with FS01 about SOU. Eastern ran it year round daily and everyone seemed happy. Some routes just need smaller aircraft and J41 suited SOU. L410 would be terribble, Q400 is too big - its horses for corses.:O

[RVF750]

It doesn't cost much more to operate a Q400 than a Q300 or Q200 for that matter.

It'd also true that you can fill any aircraft and lose money, and half fill another and make profits.....how to do the latter is the secret of commercial departments the world over, well one they well know in Exeter anyway.

Rumours can occur for both water testing and disruptive reasons, often, they're just pie in the sky.

Simple logic tells me a route that succeeds on a 19 seater, that doesn't impact on close by major route's are neither a threat nor an opportunity.

As you say, Horses for Courses.

[IOMspotter]

anyone seen or heard of the NOV pax figures for Ronaldsway.:confused: The airports at the other ends of the route have published and it looks like most were down about 10%:{. Guess this is what we ll see here in 2009 with a bit of a boost from Arranns new LCY:D

[Haven't a clue]

Bad numbers always take longer to add up......

And DoT PR will be spending time composing the spin that will go with them. Expect to see phrases like "world recession", "very much better then we expected" etc.

[GLOworm]

Down 12.4%

"significantly better than anticipated"...!

[vinnym]

In response to £200 return LPL-IOM,I compared Flybe flights on his route ex LPL 15/12 return 16/12 £220 rtn against similar flights, similar times EZY on LPL-BFS which came out at £110 rtn, seems as though Flybe are really hiking late bookings on this route.

[lfc84]

as much as I would like to see prices come down, price alone doesnt tell the full story...

compare and contrast....spot the difference

http://www.fola.org.uk/gfx/easyjets.jpg

http://www.fola.org.uk/gfx/flybe1.jpg

[Tinwald]

seems as though Flybe are really hiking late bookings on this route - known in the english speeking world as 'Rip Off' fella and what happens when theres a monieopoloy which is what the flybees have now, yessir:{.

[dollydaydream]

So vinnym - once you have paid your £110 to easy to get from LPL to BFS how much does it then cost you to get from BFS to IOM which is where the original poster wanted to get to/from. Just my opinion but you can't compare prices to a different destination:confused:

[lfc84]

then there's a differnce in landing fees, fuel and all manner of costs.

not a fair comparison. or should that be not a fare comparison :}

:ugh:

[RVF750]

You simply cannot compare like for like on this.

A Dash 8Q400 has 78 seats, compared to 150 or so on an Easy A319. or 189 on a 737-800 with a Harp on the tail.

There are about 8 per day to BFS or BHD from both Easy and Ryanair, plus loads of NI flights from Manchester too.

Thus on any day, there's an awful lot of seats to fill. 15/16 December is a Monday out, Tuesday back, which is a quiet time of week, certainly on the return.

Compared to this, the 78 seats 4 times a day and that flybe often have 70+ on board at this time of year, Midweek included, means that you would be better comparing Friday Evening costs from LPL to BFS, which would probably yield differnt figures I'm sure!

When you look at a Dash with your £200 ticket, remember there's folk sat near you who paid less than £70 all in, and plenty who paid under £100 all in too, All in including all the hidden moans, probably half the plane actually.

Late bookers obviously get hit with higher fares, but remember, Ryan and Easy require a pretty much full aircraft to break even, the costs of those shiny new Airbus or Boeings is a lot higher, as is the fuel and other costs.

Thus they'll reduce fares as required to ensure they fill seats.

Flybe fly thinner routes and operate smaller regional planes that don't need to be full. They know that for part of the year, a place like the Island will NEVER fill it's aircraft. There just isn't enough people who want to travel. So, they operate smaller kit with more rotations to minimise losses on those quiet days.

On really quiet times, they drop rotations to stop flying empty. This saves a fortune. On other days, they can aim to break even on far to middling loads, and profit on busy days. Some of those Belfast-Liverpool flights go with loads as low as 40 and that is creating HUGE losses for Ryan and Easy. You get cheap fares now, but for how much longer?

With Flybe, you can pay a bit more, but they will still be here this time next year, and hopefully the next few years after as well. You can probably guess my mortgage depends on that!

However much we imagine the importance of our lovely Isle, it's a small catchment and not busy enough for a major player. However it is too busy for a little outfit that can't invest in big enough kit.

Quite frankly, the Q400 is the perfect size for the Island's trunk routes. The answer to LGW on Fridays is another rotation, or for the next year or so, overspill onto RE's LCY-IOM. They'll have plenty of seats spare anyway....

[jetstreamtechrecords]

and once the runway extension (sorry safety) project is completed the Ronaldsway orange carpet will be laid down for bigEasy. Then BE will know what its really like to be pushed round by a bigger operator:eek:. What goes around comes around.

[liffy2A]

RE's Overflow from LGW Dash, wow the route doesnt sound too promising, all those business men and Bankers having to travel all the way from the Docklands to Gatwick to find out that there FlyBe dash is full.Only to have to head back into London to travel with Aer Arann, Poor fella's. Taking a look with Aer Arann to Dublin last minute might be a more accurate account of a route. £150 was the most expensive I could source. I bet the landing fee's in Dublin are alot more expensive than liverpool too.

[Cloud1]

Before anyone comes shouting back.....remember this is a question which does not neccesarily require an answer.

Should islanders not be grateful for Flybe's service? Afterall when BA Connect was taken over, they carried on with the routes. They could have dropped them all together but that would have been wrong so they stayed around.

EMX then went down the pan and this too was Flybe's fault. But despite all the agro they recieved they maintained their routes and whilst frequencies may have been adjusted key routes are still available for those that need them.

Dont get me wrong if I could persuade Flybe to pull out of the IOM tomorrow I would, as I have yet to meet or speak to one single IOM resident which would entice me to visit and I think the aircraft are completely wasted there. (Such a shame as I expect the island itself is nice) But rather than slagging them off all the time could you not, for the love of god, just be happy you have air routes to the mainland?

Some airports have no commercial routes anymore, and some are going on with one or two such as Manston and Coventry. Imagine IOM without a frequent air service to LGW. If BE were not there another airline would be with fares just as high - in fact if we monitor Aer Arrans I am sure they will go up.

[EI-BUD]

Reading some of these posts One could be led to believe that it is unusual that Flybe have expensive last minute fares. Any time that I check Flybe I often see cheap lead in fares eg £1.50 or £6.50 etc but when I click it, that little dot on the chosen flight leads to a price seldom less than £50 one all in!

I personally think (correct me if necessary) that Flybe is the most expensive flight around these islands. And what's even more irritating about it is that they shout about low prices! The mind boggles!!!"

IOM have little options left Flybe run the show and even if the runway is extended EZY will not offer more than a daily rotation(assuming that they do go to IOM someday!) as the market is too tight so Flybe will continue to be the business mans choice from IOM.

Lets hope that Manx2 have a clear run without FLybe getting onto there key markets. Once upon a time we had JEA on BHD/IOM and IOM/BLK with SH6s and they packed it in. Lets hope they leave it packed in.

EI-BUD

[FS01]

Good call Cloud1... the basic problem goes back to summer 07 when things were very bad!! (as they were across the network). Flybe do a lot in IOM in the community (Flybe pride of Mann awards) and with their current punctuality figures improving all the time, it's about time people realised this and gave credit where it's due. For example this morning Manx2 had a 2 hour delay.... I am not trying to have a go at them but it happens to every airline...

[IOMspotter]

BE certainly had a good November according to AD. SHARP DECREASE IN PASSENGERS - BUT AHEAD OF EXPECTATION - Isle of Man Airport Website (http://www.iom-airport.com/news/viewnews.gov?page=/lib/news/airport/sharpdecreaseinp.xml)

Passenger numbers were down but load factors up niceley. :DWhen even the minister comments on good load factors in november "........the load factors being achieved are generally very satisfactory...." there must be a big smile in Exeter:ok:

[Tonyq]

A couple of observations, based on my own experiences, on topics which still seem to be 'hot' on this thread despite being debated 'ad nauseum'.

I've flown 40+ FlyBe sectors this year, for both leisure and business, all but two involving the IOM. The only significant delay I've had was 3 hours coming back from MAN when they cancelled the penultimate flight of the day and sent the aircraft to BHD and back, before it took me home on the last flight. Otherwise, every other flight has been more or less on time. Indeed, the last three inbound sectors I've flown from LGW, LTN and BHX have all arrived over 20 minutes early (yes I know the schedules are generous). I haven't just been lucky - checking the airport website shows that this is a general trend over the last few months.

Flybe are trying to raise their profile and have started to put their name and presumably some money into the local community, but perhaps they need to be publishing and explaining these punctuality numbers more widely to try to shake off the legacy 'FlyMayBe' tag.

On the thorny question of fares, I've been to London and back over ten times this year. I've travelled via LGW, LTN and LCY and I've never paid over £100 for the round trip. Sometimes I buy singles and go to/from different airports. Often, the cost has been significantly under £100. I usually book around 6 or 7 weeks in advance, and look at different options or permutations of fares, before I press the 'confirm' button. In the early part of the year, I used VLM quite a bit, but they've lost their way completely, and I've been dependent on FlyBe, but my £100 benchmark is still achievable.

I know I'm quite lucky to be able to plan ahead and I do avoid half term, TT Week and other hot spots. I'm fortunate that I've never had an emergency where I've needed to buy a flight at really short notice, but I can't accept that the norm. to LPL is £200 or LGW is £300 and that FlyBe's adverts and lead-in prices are misleading - they are all out there, if you look and plan.

Despite the tricky economic situation, we have brand new aircraft to travel on, much of the time - not 20 year old 146's so I am one Manxie who does recognise and appreciate that Flybe are doing and pretty good job overall. Others will have bad experiences of fares, punctuality and other factors, and I sympathise, but I also want to redress the balance a little.

Overall, you'd struggle to pin point an earlier period where IOM enjoyed materially better service and frequencies on the core routes, a fares mix to suit most pockets and circumstances, within what seems to be a sustainable framework and model.

And as we say in the IOM, if you don't like it..........there's always (well when it's not too windy) a boat in the morning!

[Capt. Horrendous]

Well said sir.

[IOMspotter]

BE shoot themsevles in the foot with the way they show taxes and charges. :ouch:If you book a £0 fare IOM LPL the taxes are £40.59. If you book an £8.89 fare the charges are £42.70 .:hmm:

Coming LPL IOM the same price fares have T&C of £15.39 and £17.50.:eek:

so two £0 fares become £55+. :{ Now theres no disputin that a return fare across for £55 is decent value -but with £16 bags and £6 card charge the cheapest inclusive ticket is now £77 but why try to bamboozul as all with T&C which are all over the place:confused:. Anyway, good to see high loads continuing:= it what we need.

[Ransman]

FS01, you state "BE Southampton is returning for Summer 2009"
Is this a direct service, or via MAN?

[EMX81L]

IOM - SOU direct starts again at the start of the S09 Schedule MON, WED and FRI using an IOM based Q400 . Then a SAT service from mid May

[Fanda_2007]

Is the discrepancy between the two levels of taxes for the same legs because of VAT on the fare? A zero fare would not be taxable.