NEWQUAY

[GROUNDHOG]

Thanks for the info Guys good news indeed then. Let's hope that many more new initiatives follow.

[Non Emmett]

According to today's Cornish Guardian regarding Newquay Airport, Cornwall Council is set to provide a revenue subsidy in 2011/12 of £3.374 million. In addition the airport will require the Council to pay £7.8 million towards airport capital expenditure over the next three years. Apparently this "could" result in an additional £14 million in European funding.

Is this a bottomless pit or reasonable expenditure? Does the airport have a future. Can the Council who are suffering big cuts like all public bodies have the ability to continue to fund this.

[niknak]

Why don't you ask the Council members and politicians who originally funded it's development and continue to make it the only airport of it's size in the UK a fully Council owned airport.

It should really be majority owned and run by a private investor who, not only knows how to make a regional airport run efficiently but also takes the hit in the bad times and the profit in the good.

[cornishsimon]

as said, the trouble is the fact that its council owned.

the airport will see more routes and airlines, and already has a decent GA traffic.

from what i understand things are happening out at NQY

[Phileas Fogg]

Alas Cornwall has no need for a 9,000' runway!

Let's face it, Cornwall only has need for a circa 6,000' runway, the airport has adopted a mega military airbase, Plymouth has a tiny airport and are selling the land to make it pay, NQY has mega excess land but who is there to sell it to with so much other land readily available?

As for GA, well surely there is a conflict of interests with Perranporth being just down the road, just how many airports/airfields does Newquay need?

I see that the runway usable width has been reduced from the original 300', perhaps in time the usable length shall also be reduced, but the fact remains that the airport remains with one hell of a lot of paved surfaces which need to be maintained.

[Non Emmett]

Some interesting responses here for which many thanks. 6000ft. runway mentioned as all NQY requires. Resurfacing in due course will of course be required which is shortly to take place at Culdrose to their 6000 ft of runway. It would be fascinating to know what it is going to cost down there. Sadly like many I have little or no confidence in Cornwall Council to run anything at a sensible cost but want the airport to succeed.

[PQC]

So, what about the airports in the Manchester Airports Group?

MAN, EMA, BOH and HUY - the only shareholders are the Manchester local Councils.

Ditto for BHX.

Arms-length Plc's set up to run them as separate businesses I'll grant you, but Council run (and highly profitable) nontheless.....

[EuroChallenger]

Does anyone know what sort of population figure lives within Newquay's catchment area?

[virginblue]

Cornwall has approx. 500.000, Devon 1.000.000.

[GROUNDHOG]

Eurochallenger -2008 statistics show 334,000 resident ( probably nearer 400,000 now) 4.4 million people visited creating 23 million visitor nights in Cornwall as a whole. A very large percentage ( around 60%) of these would be bringing a caravan or motorhome, camping, coached in or staying in holiday homes so will almost certainly arrive by road and will be mostly UK originating.

The fact 400,000 people are resident in Cornwall is misleading as far as Newquay Airport catchment area is concerned since many living East of Bodmin could be described more in the Plymouth or even Exeter catchment area.

Another factor which is relevant is that being mainly a tourist area many locals derive their income from Summer visitors so are far more likely to holiday outside of the tourist season.

It is impossible to give all the information here but hope that helps you a little.

[Phileas Fogg]

You see ... until 1986 Cornwall could have expected a lot of international (Dutch) travellers but alas the war with the Isles of Scilly ended. :)

[cornishsimon]

BBC News - RAF to start aircraft training at Newquay Airport (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-12428615)
rather interesting!
cs

[derelicte]

I have often wondered why KLM don't do a service from Exeter, Plymouth or Newquay. Surely there's enough demand between them, and once you get to Schipol you can go anywhere. I'm sure there's a good reason!

[choppercopper 99]

I can't see KLM doing a service from EXT. Flybe operate EXT-CDG which is a code share with AF part of AF/KLM group. That gives the whole of the south west a connection anywhere in the world. Flybe also operate their own service to AMS from EXT.

KLM operate feeder services from BRS which covers a huge catchment area within a 1 hours drive.

PLY's runway is just to small to operate from and the catchment area around NQY is just to small for an operator like KLM to be interested in.

Just my own thoughts

CC99

[Phileas Fogg]

derelicte,

KLM don't operate anything capable of performing in/out of PLH, their smallest aircraft, now, is the F70, something like 84 seats, KLM like to serve a commuter route (for connections purposes) a minimum of 3 times daily, what do you think the chances are of 250 people travelling daily NQY-AMS and vice versa?

As for EXT-AMS, long ago it was tried, I recall, with an Air UK Bandit (Air UK later became KLM), if not a Bandit then a Shed 330, I think they routed/combined it via SOU, with only 18 (ish) seats it didn't pay and, nowadays, KLM serve BRS instead.

[bravoromeosierra]

BBC News - RAF to start aircraft training at Newquay Airport (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-12428615)
rather interesting!
cs


Good news.. I imagine it's stuff like this that keeps the airfield going- and I imagine it needs it.

[derelicte]

Cheers PF and cc.

Maybe with the Gatwick flights going it could work. I'm no expert but I don't know why far South West people would be filled with any kind of enthusiasm for going to such an inaccessible place as Lulsgate. It's particularly sad when the Exeter and Newquay runways are so long and useful. Anyway, time for MOTD.

[Phileas Fogg]

derelicte,

There are only so many people in the NQY catchment area, of those only a certain percentage will need to fly to other parts of UK and internationally, in the old days they were all funneled into one NQY/LHR/NQY route and the route was viable, take away that 'funneling' by offering them DUB, LGW, GLA, MAN, NCL etc, whilst withdrawing the LHR service, then one or more of those routes will fail.

I would suggest that MAN has replaced the LHR route!

[nonemmet]

How about selling Newquay airport for housing, and using the money to finance a new 6000ft runway parallel to the A30 at Victoria. It would point in the right direction and would have rail as well as a good road connection.

The real nonemmet;)

[bravoromeosierra]

How about selling Newquay airport for housing,Then again, they could develop Truro International..


http://ukga.com/images/content/preview/image2524.jpeg

[GROUNDHOG]

Or build a snowzone in place of one of the hangers, indoor ski slope etc. Most surfers and sailors also love skiing and there are plenty of the former down here. Gives the tourists somewhere to go when its too wet for the beach and creates jobs. I Will make the first investment just needs the remaining millions to build it.

bravoromeosierra - love the picture!

[srobarts]

Cornish Guardian has this article - is this just speculation on aircraft types likely to be using Newquay?
Newquay Cornwall News | Eurofighters thunder back to Newquay sky sparking local concerns (http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/news/Eurofighters-thunder-Newquay-sky/article-3224312-detail/article.html)

[Phileas Fogg]

I'm still trying to figure out why, during all these defence cuts, Culdrose needs to resurface it's runways .... the only fixed wing aircraft the Navy/FAA operate are those of the historic flight!!!

[EGTE]

Don't forget the Hawks and Jetstreams Phileas!

[cornishsimon]

Phileas Fogg have you actually been down to Helston recently ?

[Phileas Fogg]

cornishsimon,

Actually not for many a year, my (late) uncle & aunty, for many a year, ran the 'Old Chapel' cream teas etc. establishment in the village of Helford, a property of which Google reveals the sh1t is currently hitting the fan, but I haven't been that way for many a year.

[cornishsimon]

well Phileas as a very frequent visitor to the area, not the base, they get hell of a lot of fixed wing movements on the runway each day, lots and lots of touch and goes etc.

its a very busy airfield

[Non Emmett]

Culdrose will presumably get somewhat less fixed wing movements from next month when the Jetstreams retire with just 4 King Airs to replace them and seemingly still some doubt where they are to be based. Agree with your comments overall about the base.

[RioNQY]

Does anyone know what an easyjet was doing at Newquay yesterday afternoon? It landed and took off at least twice (as far as I could discern from quite a distance).

[yeo valley]

pilot training perhaps.

[Non Emmett]

Newquay needs more movements and revenue. In the days when the RAF operated RAF ST. Mawgan it was not that unusual to find US military transports arriving for fuel - I recall seeing three C-9 of the USN there one day. T'other side of the water St. Johns gets similar traffic I believe, much east-west traffic uses Shannon and Prestwick.

Is there scope for Newquay to develop this sort of traffic? I'm sure if this is just a damned silly idea - this being pprune - someone will shoot me down in flames PDQ !

[Phileas Fogg]

The shorter great circle distance across the Atlantic is to the north although, depending on upper winds, routing out around Shannon is sometimes more optimum.

I recall, when I was routing a heavy freighter Luxembourg to northern USA, Brest came in to the considerations but St. Mawgan is well off most beaten paths and even with a 9000' runway it will, on occasions, not be long enough for what may be required.

[JSCL]

Does anyone here have an idea on the size of the council subsidy to Newquay airport?

[srobarts]

This was posted earlier this year and is probably as close as you will get.
http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/198735-newquay-26.html#post6234396

[bravoromeosierra]

Does anyone know what an easyjet was doing at Newquay yesterday afternoon? It landed and took off at least twice (as far as I could discern from quite a distance).

Flew in from Bristol on pilot training.

[west lakes]

A number of airlines use Newquay for training

[Phileas Fogg]

Training sorties normally incur zero Eurocontol charges and 25% landing/navigation charges, if they're transitting from BRS to NQY, rather than CWL, EXT, BOH then I'd guess NQY are offering a significantly better than 25% landing/navigation charge deal!

[cornishsimon]

Training sorties normally incur zero Eurocontol charges and 25% landing/navigation charges, if they're transitting from BRS to NQY, rather than CWL, EXT, BOH then I'd guess NQY are offering a significantly better than 25% landing/navigation charge deal!


iv no idea about the fees but the previous poster was correct.

its very common to see EZY & BE conducting training flights into NQY. when BA recently introduced the E190/170 for LCY ops the first of the flight crews did training flights with BE on BE aircraft using NQY for touch and goes.

they use it for the same reason that the MOD are back using NQY, large airfield with quiet airspace = ideal for this

cs

[Phileas Fogg]

Extremely quiet airspace :)

[AirLCY]

BA did their training with Finnair not Flybe, in HEL.

[cornishsimon]

interesting, and not what i heard when i was at NQY seeing the E190 doing landings and touch and goes some time ago

cs

[GROUNDHOG]

So the fat lady finally steps up to the mike at Air Southwest and doubtless the fainthearted will say NQY is now doomed.

Well it isn't. What is needed now is a concerted effort by the owners to attract new carriers to fill the gaps and to show some creative thinking. I can think of at least three doors I would knock on straight away and they are not Flybeasyryan2......

Oh sorry I forgot it is owned by the Council isn't it........

[TSR2]

I can think of at least three doors I would knock on straight away

Mmmm .... Branson ....... Walsh ....... and ah you've got me on that one :)

[GROUNDHOG]

None of them I am afraid.....

[Phileas Fogg]

Groundhog ...

NQY, indeed Cornwall, is a turbo prop, modest jet, destination, NQY has a mega airfield, real estate, indeed a runway that DHC7's would land across.

I recall when my uncle & aunt moved in to an 'old folks' care accommodation in Redruth, it was claimed this complex had the only lift/elevator in Cornwall ..... what I'm trying to say that whilst Cornwall is beautiful during the summers ... unless some bright spark starts building mega complex Sheraton's and/or Holiday Inn's etc. there it is to remain 'sleepy', whilst beautiful, quaint Cornwall although with the best ice cream and pasties in the world.

Now can you imagine Airbus's and Boeing's lining up at the holding points of various, and numerous, airports all heading to/from NQY for passengers guest house or caravan holidays ... because current statistics seem to speak, to the contrary, for themselves?

[GROUNDHOG]

Phileas - As seems to be frequently the case we are singing from the same hymn sheet, I live here and totally agree the market you describe does not exist and never has over the 40 years I have known the airport commercially. What I have in mind is not in that league.

[Skypartners]

Louis Walsh? Excellent idea. Captures the Irish and the pink pound too! Ah - not that Walsh - I see!

[Wycombe]

Bad news for NQY and all those at Air Southwest.

What do you have in mind Groundhog - Skybus twotters going national?

Seriously, it could be that some trunk routes from NQY might work on a 20-30 seater a/c? (though even this might be hard to sustain through the winter).

Either that or people are going to be left largely to go via LGW using the Flybe service (although I understand even this drops to 1 daily rotation on some days during the winter).

So, is it their franchise partner Loganair moving south, or Aurigny, BlueIslands, Manx2 or indeed Skybus.....can't think of anyone else who operates a suitable size a/c in the UK at the moment (I discount Eastern as they are really a higher-priced business airline).

[Phileas Fogg]

Wycombe,

A Twotter wouldn't work on anything except a short hop and/or a short field .... they are uncomfortable, damn noisy and with a cruising speed of a mere 150kts they takes ages to get anywhere.

[alfaman100]

Ok this may sound a mad idea... but I think it could work.

Newquay has a grat site and runway, why not use it to its full potential and let Newquay become a transatlantic hub?

Fly to Newquay from across the atlantic and then a fleet of commuter aeroplanes at Newquay could service several destinations all over the UK (and Europe?).

Hathrow and Gatwick are full, and just how many people who fly into heathrow are visting London or even the UK anyway?

Just some "Blue Sky" thinking.

Now taking cover ready for the replies...:O

[Phileas Fogg]

NQY's runway isn't long enough for heavy and long haul traffic and the great circle N. Atlantic track routes over Iceland thus such aircraft would be routing past such airports as GLA, PIK, BFS, SNN, DUB etc. just to get to/from NQY!

[Cazza_fly]

NQY's runway isn't long enough for heavy and long haul traffic and the great circle N. Atlantic track routes over Iceland thus such aircraft would be routing past such airports as GLA, PIK, BFS, SNN, DUB etc. just to get to/from NQY!


NQY's runway is more than long enough to offer longhaul / transatlantic flights, which it has been able to do in the past (Jet2 757 to New York, Thomson 767 to the Caribbean etc). The terminal building however would be the problem. It struggles with two 737 load worths of passengers so i can't imagine what it would be like inside with a 767 load plus other flights. The idea though of alfaman100 is a little bit over the top :}!

[alfaman100]

NQY runway is good enough for a 777-200 at MTOW... Routing I accept is an issue, but not a barrier.

I regularly see Florida bound flights pass overhead down here (near St Austell) and have even seen services from Newark to Heathrow overhead - so its possible!

:ugh:

[Phileas Fogg]

cazza_fly,

B757's and B767's on eastern seaboard N. American routes are not heavy nor long haul .... how about to Mexico, to LAX, SFO, SEA etc. etc. etc. in B747's or whatever!

Put it this way, a number of years ago I needed to plan a MTOW DC8-62 from UK/Ireland to BGR, and SNN & PIK have longer runways than NQY, no matter what I tried it couldn't make it out of SNN and, if I recall correctly for planning purposes we used 'flaps 15', it still couldn't make it out of PIK so I went for 'flaps 30' whereas it could make it out of PIK but only by the skin of it's teeth and the crew remarked upon this upon their return to base.

If 9,000ft is plenty long enough then how come these significant city airports have 10,000ft, 12,000ft, 13,000ft or whatever length runways?

But it's a silly idea anyway, the likes of London, Paris, Amsterdam airports take long haul traffics from East, West and South and it needs all these traffics to fill the smaller aircraft on domestic/European connections ..... and people don't arrive at these major hub airport to all travel onwards by air, the vast majority jump in the car and on to a motorway or they jump on to a train at a mainline, often airport, train station ..... Just where is the motorway and/or mainline train station in relation to NQY?

[Cazza_fly]

B757's and B767's on eastern seaboard N. American routes are not heavy nor long haul .... how about to Mexico, to LAX, SFO, SEA etc. etc. etc. in B747's or whatever!

767s ARE classed as heavy and when travelling to N.American routes from the UK ARE classed as longhaul. Why would they need to use 747s? Who mentioned LAX, SFO etc... Yes the 767 fully loaded in high-density charter configs would make it to the likes of Mexico from NQYs runway length so in other layouts I guess further afield would be possible.

If 9,000ft is plenty long enough then how come these significant city airports have 10,000ft, 12,000ft, 13,000ft or whatever length runways?

So that they could/can cater for a huge range of aircraft types such as the 747 you mentioned fully laden with cargo for example and other operational restrictions.

Anyway no point arguing, as as you say it's a silly idea anyway. In all fairness NQY must be one of the hardest airport's to drive around in terms of road types with the narrow country lanes etc.

[alfaman100]

I know its a silly idea; thats why I called the post "Mad Idea".

But please just remember that some of the finest inventions of the industrial age started out as "Silly ideas".

Got two of you debating it anyway, so was worth a post!

[Phileas Fogg]

Cazza,

So what are you suggesting .... that all the N. Atlantic traffic only route to the N. American eastern seaboard and all operators sell off all their B747's, B777-300's, A380's etc. and re-equip with B757's, B767's & B777-200's because there's a quaint regional airfield in the middle of nowhere somewhere that is in dire need of some passengers even if these passengers don't actually want to be there?

[GROUNDHOG]

I recall back is the 70's a major tour operator asked us to look at the same idea. a network of commuter aircraft linking to his main charter from London and he was quite serious about it. It was never going to work in reality and wouldn't in this case but a silly idea is a little harsh. Of course if it included St Mary's it would then be a Scilly idea....

What suggestions do I have - let me do a little more research first then I will willingly share them but it would certainly involve smaller machinery.

[Phileas Fogg]

And if it included Tresco also it would be even Scillier :)

[GROUNDHOG]

Ah Tresco - every little helps

[Cazza_fly]

So what are you suggesting .... that all the N. Atlantic traffic only route to the N. American eastern seaboard and all operators sell off all their B747's, B777-300's, A380's etc. and re-equip with B757's, B767's & B777-200's because there's a quaint regional airfield in the middle of nowhere somewhere that is in dire need of some passengers even if these passengers don't actually want to be there?


At no point did I or anyone ever mention that. Clearly you're a very negative sour person. . .

[Phileas Fogg]

Cazza,

In your previous post you suggested that NQY become a transatlantic hub whilst citing LHR & LGW.

Well just take a look at the transatlantic aircraft and routes that frequent these LON airports ... faced with a reality check you then made excuses, to the effect, that you only intended it to become a transatlantic hub for the smaller of the longer haul airliners and only on N. America east coast routes.

You said NQY could accommodate a B777-200 at MTOW, well I have to admit that I know nothing about B777 performance, your wealth of knowledge regarding B777 performance is most welcomed, so bearing in mind the Cornish climate during the winters, can NQY accommodate a B777-200 at MTOW if the runway is 'wet' and, with 'still air', what TODA is required for a B777-200 at MTOW and with a 'wet' runway?

Call me negative, call me sour, sticks and stones and all that, but I'm not the one living in cloud cuckoo land!

[Cazza_fly]

In your previous post you suggested that NQY become a transatlantic hub whilst citing LHR & LGW.


Please get your facts right! It was not me who stated such things... Check the user name of the person who's posted, you can find it on the left hand side of the post.

Thanks!

[purplehelmet]

Ah Tresco - every little helps
sorry to butt in, just browsing,but just spat beer all over me lap-top when i read that that,cheers groundhog:D:ok:

[Phileas Fogg]

Sorry Cazza,

Mistaken identity.

However any suggestion that NQY become anything more than a quaint regional airport, one that will only survive with, year in, year out, bucket loads of taxpayers funding are absurd, it can be realised now or it may only be realised after several more 10's of millions of £££ of public funds.

[Jerbourg]

According to todays Guernsey Press, Aurigny are looking into taking over the GCI-JER-NQY route, however time will tell if they think it's viable to do so.

[trafficnotsighted]

I have to say i am amazed about the amount of shock and surprise in the statement that ASW are pulling out of NQY. Where have some of these people been for the last couple of years. The business model for ASW was to pick up 20 at PLH and pick up another 20 at NQY and you have a nice loading. Even at ASW's peak 80% of the routes involved a PLH/NQY combination. You will not find anyone at PLH or associated with ASW surprised at all, it was expected.
When it was first announced that PLH would be closing, the vibes coming from the NQY management was one of smugness and the belief that the ASW operation would just move down to NQY. What a mistake that was.

The truth be known PLH and NQY's futures were interlinked.
NQY= big runway little population catchment
PLH = Little runway big population catchment(in south west terms)

NQY will survive but it will be a tough couple of years. Good luck to them.

I think it could have been so different had Cornwall Council and Plymouth City council had come to some sort of arrangement(which was explored but thrown out by Cornwall) for the greater good and to the benefit of both regarding the airports. They also had the opportunity to protect the regions airlinks to London but got greedy and could only see Flybe flashing the cash.

The real losers in all of this are the people of Cornwall and South West Devon.

[MADTASS]

Really feel for the ASW Crews, great people all of them, dealt with them in a Fuelling Capacity and there always Cheerful. I know Business is Business but they will all be missed by us at Newquay.
We do have a Tough Couple of Years ahead of us and in the Near Future, a very Tough Winter but, Hopefully we"ll come through this Extremely Challenging Time.

[srobarts]

The business model for ASW was to pick up 20 at PLH and pick up another 20 at NQY and you have a nice loading.

If that model worked for ASW until Plymouth was closed, does this not open an opportunity for FlyBe to operate a similar model via Exeter?

On the flights that our family have flown from Exeter in the last year, load factors were low. A Newquay link could boost those load factors.

FlyBe's pricing has always seemed to me to be able to pick up more of the low cost fare seekers and take them off the roads and rail. They can book far ahead for the right fare and are additional to the business turn up and fly brigade who are prepared to pay higher fares.

[GROUNDHOG]

According to Al Titterington on the lunchtime news expect an announcement soon re positive discussions on other airlines picking up the routes.

[AlanM]

Ditto to the above - as an Air Trafficker it is always a delight to work with the boys and girls of ASW. Very professional, and (like FlyBe crews) really know what flying outside CAS is all about.

I hope that someone else can pick up the routes, and excellent people of ASW.

[NorthSouth]

Not a patch on the British Eagle Britannias that used to operate the route though!

NS

[Skipness One Echo]

Since Loganair operate as Flybe and Flybe already operated GLA-NQY I guess it would be more of a route transfer? Why did Flybe pull off the route, did WOW actually win that one?

[stolport]

The GLA route picks up most passengers at Plymouth - probably why flybe didn't have much luck competing with ASW. When Plymouth closes, the passengers are more likely to go to Exeter to fly to GLA so I'm not sure how successful a NQY-GLA route would be.

Does anyone think that an airline would start up a route in October to NQY? - surely they would wait until Spring/Summer of next year. They might also struggle to fill a Q400 size aircraft on all the ASW routes into NQY as both PLH and NQY relied on filling the load sharing between the 2 airports. A 737 works with holiday traffic to MAN and might work for DUB but I doubt many of the other destinations could.

In 1994 Newquay Air(who became the first Air South West) operated a PA31 from NQY to ORK, DUB and JER 4 times a week with some of the flights even operating via Exeter. In 1995 they dropped NQY in favour of EXT. In 1996 they dropped EXT and moved to PLH!

[GROUNDHOG]

I know I am getting old but I don't remember Newquay Air and I thought I knew how SHH started ASW when they took over the ex BA aircraft to keep PLH open. I had better have a cup of cocoa and go to bed now.

[marlowe]

Stolport are you sure about that? Like Groundhog i thought i knew all about SHH taking over BAconnect hang on i do i was there!!!!

[stolport]

Newquay Air became Air South West well before SHH got into the airline business. They had 1 or 2 PA-31's and finished off with 2 Bandits operating PLH-DUB, PLH-ORK and PLH-MAN. They had no connection with the current airline that I'm aware of.

Here is a pic of one of their timetables. I have photos of their aircraft too.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm123/richardpw/one/js800_IMG_3832.jpg

[marlowe]

well no they wouldnt because ASW derives its background from Brymon Airways ultimately Ahhhh those were the days .

[Non Emmett]

Some interesting and well informed comments on here on this subject which is important to us here in Cornwall. At the end of the day, surely it all comes down to the business enterprise - or lack of it - of Cornwall Council and their 123 Councillors. As a Cornishman, I tend to usually think along the lines of Gawd elp us when the Council is involved and they need to be thinking on a commercial basis. Councils are only good at spending our money but I really wish the airport well and would like to see it succeed one way or another for the sake of the good citizens here in The Duchy.

[NorthSouth]

Just ask yourselves the question, "would Cornwall have an airport at all if it wasn't for the council?"

Show me the queues of private companies at CCC's door clamouring to buy Newquay.

Good luck to CCC for recognising that airports in economically marginal areas are a public asset and need protection from the asset-strippers.

NS

[GROUNDHOG]

Stolport - Well having slept on it I do vaguely remember an airline being planned that didn't actually happen or may have operated for a few weeks but I still do not see how that related to SHH. I had discussions with SHH to fund another airline around that time, they didn't go ahead, so have my doubts there would have been any connection at all.

I am sure there is someone out there will have far greater knowledge and memory than I.

[Snigs]

A little birdy recently was heard to sing "there are big plans for Newquay!"

Only speculation, but I can see Flybe maybe doing a W pattern through NQY. An example could be (once BMI Baby pulls out of MAN) an EXT-MAN-NQY-MAN-EXT. Or perhaps a EXT-ALC-NQY-ALC-EXT on the E-Jet.

Just a thought!

[virginblue]

Couldn't BE just extend one of the Q400 flights to EXT to/from NQY and feed its EXT flights that way with NQY pax? That is if they can schedule the departure of flights from EXT to places like MAN, GLA, EDI, LBA and BHD for more or less the same time (most of them seem to be at 2 pm'ish). As Flybe offers connections, it would not be that complicated to implement, I guess. Times for NQY would not be terribly convenient as far as early morning and late evening departures are concerned, but still better than nothing.

[Snigs]

I think that people prefer direct flights, which is why I think a "W" pattern would be the best bet. After all it's between 1 to 1.5 hours drive to EXT from NQY, probably less than checking in at NQY and then transferring in EXT!

[Phileas Fogg]

virginblue,

And FlyBE would be making the same mistake as ASW and others before them.

The passengers in Cornwall want direct flights, they were anti to routing via PLH and they'll be equally as anti to routing via EXT.

[GROUNDHOG]

And we don't all live in Newquay. It takes me 40 minutes to drive to Newquay and an hour to an hour and a half to drive to EXT so once on the A30 I might as well keep going. The further east you live the less likely it is.

[Phileas Fogg]

Not even Newquay Airport lives in Newquay :)

[JC25]

Flybe wouldn't necessarily need to operate any one-stop flights or any W-patterns to build a decent schedule at NQY.

There are aircraft/crew bases at lots of airports (INV, ABZ, EDI, GLA, NCL, BHD, MAN, IOM, BHX, LGW, JER, GCI, SOU & EXT) which may have enough slack in the schedule to allow a NQY flight to be fitted in. Obviously, not all of those bases could support a NQY flight, but some might.

It may be possible to have flights from EDI, GLA, MAN, BHD and NCL.

Given that MAN-FRA and BHX-FRA are being suspended this month there is obviously some slack in the system.

[virginblue]

If conventional wisdom is that only combined PLH/NQY flights could fill a Brymon / ASW 50 seater to some extent, I fail to see how all these destinations could realistically be served with a 78 seater Q400 from NQY. I contrast, the 15 odd people wanting to travel from NQY to LBA, GLA, BHD and MAN could easily fill a Q400 feeding a mini EXT hub.

As for "people want direct flights", will they stay at home if there are none and the only alternative is to drive to EXT or take a one-stop from NQY? Fact is that Flybe now has now competition, i.e. travellers have no choice.

[Phileas Fogg]

virgin,

Exactly the point ... these destinations cannot be successfully served by 78 seater aircraft .... believe it or not but these aeroplane wizz kids manufacture 18 seater, 30 something seater, any idea what the '42' in 'ATR42' signifies? ... and so on.

When it comes to aviation, and with all due respect, Cornwall is a village, it is not a City Centre!

The public always has a choice ... National Express ... Railway ... EXT ... BRS ... BHX ... and ... 'London'.

[JC25]

I for one don't think for a minute that Flybe will launch routes from all of their bases to NQY. However, I don't think it is beyond the realms of possibility that a MAN service will appear next summer to mop up after BMI Baby's departure from the route.

Flybe already have a summer route from EDI so maybe similar routes could be viable from GLA, BHD and NCL. Personally though, I think Flybe are more likely to just "force" the old ASW pax to travel to EXT and board the existing flights.

Time will tell...

[cornishsimon]

well ill get hassle from the normal sources but i think that over the next year to 2 we could well see.

BA- LCY-NQY-LCY E170
U2- MAN-NQY-MAN
EI- DUB-NQY-DUB (EI Regional)
EI- ORK-NQY-ORK (EI Regional)
BE- I think will operate Manchester which with the connection options will allow it to indirectly serve ABZ, BFS, BRU, DUS, GLA, CDG etc etc etc.

Also worth keeping in mind is that BE now have a BA codeshare on the LGW service which will allow bookings via ba.com to route onto the BA network both long and short, however at present not on domestic or Jersey.

There is also scope for an increase in German routes, again this is my opinion ! the current DUS route has operated all season so far on the 735 instead of part CRJ and part 735. I think next year we could see an increase in flights or longer season

cs

[GROUNDHOG]

I can also see LCY coming back, perhaps an operator that currently flies in from Europe and wants to add an extra sector? No disagreement from me Simon, some of thees routes may well co me back into being but much more suitable to smaller units. I mentioned three airlines I would speak to and you have hit one of them.

[bravoromeosierra]

Why would BA CityFlyer fly to NQY from LCY when they can fly to XYZ destination on the continent and make more money from it?

Genuinely curious.

[CabinCrewe]

A LCY quick route filler to NQY would be a lot quicker and cheaper with some income than setting up a new continental route, so i guess thats a potential reason- it was good enough for a LGW 734.

[Phileas Fogg]

And just how many Cornwall locals wish to travel to/from the City of London, not Greater London, on a daily basis and just how many City of London business personnel wish to travel to/from Cornwall on a daily basis?

[airhumberside]

Given that MAN-FRA and BHX-FRA are being suspended this month there is obviously some slack in the system.
Flybe's investor presentations show that the Flybe fleet will contract by 2 aircraft this year - I guess the aircraft used to FRA

See slide 14 http://www.flybe.com/corporate/investors/presentations/Analyst-presentation-March-2011-results.pdf

[tommyc2005]

Phileas Fogg - a better question would be to ask how many residents/businessmen of City of London and surrounding area would make use of a link to NQY from LCY for a leisure break. Afterall, Ibiza and Palma are hardly aimed at bankers off to do a deal and the same goes for Cityjet routes to Brive etc. Its a more possible route than you might imagine.

[Phileas Fogg]

Tommy,

I myself was born within greater London and I've lived on 3 seperate occasions in Essex. NEVER would I travel to LCY, on one train, off another train, perhaps the tube, and then the DLR humping bags/suitcases all the way and all for an overpriced flight from an airport I don't even want to be at!!!

I'm not suggesting such a route is impossible BUT there are only so many people that want to travel from/to the SW each day, NQY already has a LGW service, if a LCY service also operated then one route would poach passengers from the other route probably resulting in the failure of both routes which I summise goes some way to ASW's failure ..... they tried to develop too many SW routes with some route(s) poaching passengers from other route(s) resulting in less than optimum, across the board, load factors.

I see it a lot in these regional airport threads, NQY airport is struggling, it will never earn it's way, and all of a sudden people are getting carried away with routes here, there and everywhere.

[Skipness One Echo]

A LCY quick route filler to NQY would be a lot quicker and cheaper with some income than setting up a new continental route, so i guess thats a potential reason- it was good enough for a LGW 734.

BA from LGW used to leave with under 20 passengers some days on a B737 in peak summer, also LCY lost money for Air Southwest, the local operator. To be honest, CFE could make WAY more money elsewhere than a marginal niche route to Cornwall viable during the school holidays alone. Domestic flying is dying in the UK not expanding.

LCY leisure routes are niche into France or pricey holiday destinations with CFE. To be utterly honest, why fly when the train makes more sense from LCY?


BA- LCY-NQY-LCY E170
U2- MAN-NQY-MAN
EI- DUB-NQY-DUB (EI Regional)
EI- ORK-NQY-ORK (EI Regional)
BE- I think will operate Manchester

easyJet can sell more on board products on a longer flight than a quicky to Cornwall and back so the aircraft would more likely be better served elsewhere. DUB is a possibility with Aer Arann I agree but more than likely a lunchtime single daily return.

[LBIA]

It’s rumored that Jet2 are looking at making a return to Newquay next summer 2012 operating flights from a few of there UK bases.

They did use to fly 3x weekly from Newquay to both Leeds/Bradford and Belfast Int’l a few years ago with the Boeing 737-300's.

[JSCL]

NQY in it's current state is nothing much more than bucket and spade trade IMO. It's not a major business route, it's mainly people traveling to NQY on holiday seasons and I personally don't see too much outbound from NQY happening on these big route proposals.

[tommyc2005]

Its a fair comment Phileas, I stand by it being a plausible route but yeah whether it would last is another matter.

To be fair to the original poster, the suggestion of a few weekly EI Regionals, an off-peak LCY and a route to MAN are hardly excessive compared to some of the garbage you see in other regional airport threads though I can't see EZY at NQY myself. At least NQY has inbound tourism potential, something the likes of Teeside do not.

[Phileas Fogg]

Tommy,

There is a market for a south west regional airline, all it needs to do is appreciate that it's catering for a modest sized market and operate the appropriate sized aircraft and NOT 50 seater, 78 seater or even larger aircraft.

[OltonPete]

quote

"Given that MAN-FRA and BHX-FRA are being suspended this month there is obviously some slack in the system."

I did a quick check yesterday, it should be 69 aircraft this winter (assuming no end of leases, all the South African six leave and four 175's arrive) with about 60 operational in the first week in November give or take one or two.

Even with maintenance cover this gives flybe ample scope if they wish to add flights/destinations. However with maintenance and any opportunities that might come knocking I suppose that could quickly reduce.

Pete

[GROUNDHOG]

Good idea we could call it Skybus?

[Phileas Fogg]

Appropriate sized aircraft with retractable undercarriages and crusing speeds well in excess of 150kts. :)

[GROUNDHOG]

Land at Biggin Hill with a free cab to drop you off and pick you up in London (distance limited)..........much cheaper than landing at LCY.

Hang on you could do that from Perranporth even cheaper still.

[Phileas Fogg]

You can land at Biggin Hill but not with any fare paying passengers on board, fare paying passengers aren't allowed at Biggin Hill :)

[GROUNDHOG]

Remember the 'Trowbridge Caged Bird Society'....... now the younger members will think I've lost it completely!

[Cyrano]

Appropriate sized aircraft with retractable undercarriages and crusing speeds well in excess of 150kts. :)

That sounds fair enough, but don't we then get into the seat-mile-cost-based peril of punters exclaiming "this is no good! the fares are too high! I can get a cheaper fare from [EXT/BRS/LGW/Xanadu]!"? A Dornier would do the job very nicely, for example, but you'll need some pretty solid yields for it to pay its way.

[west lakes]

I've heard a mention of a BA LCY-NQY-JFK route with NQY instead of the SNN stop. I suppose it might depend on the US if they would set up immigration and customs at NQY

[Phileas Fogg]

Cyrano,

If the punters want a cheapskate fare then they relocate, or take their holidays, somewhere on a mad Irishman's route network.

If they choose to live and/or fly from/to a quaint Cornish seaside village then they need to appreciate that they need to pay an appropriate airfare .... Operators such as Scot Airways seem to make such a living from lesser sized aircraft operations, Manx2 also!

With current fuel & VAT prices what does it cost to operate a car, probably circa 35p per mile, NQY/EXT/NQY 88 miles in each diection but let's say 66 miles in each direction for the average NQY punter, that'll be £46 in car expenses to/from EXT, not that they can readily fly the world from EXT, so if the airfares from/to NQY were a mere £45 higher than EXT then the punters are getting a bargain!

[CabinCrewe]

That was the old plan at the very early stages and was rejected. The current situation is working extremely well.

[srobarts]

The local news on BBC Breakfast this morning carried an item that FlyBe were starting a Newquay - Manchester route in October. Nothing on the FlyBe website yet.....

[tregeseal]

Great news.:ok:

[Cyrano]

The local news on BBC Breakfast this morning carried an item that FlyBe were starting a Newquay - Manchester route in October. Nothing on the FlyBe website yet.....

It's now showing on the flyBE online timetable and in the booking engine. 4/week (Mon Thurs Fri Sun) from the start of the winter season (but not January).

[TRY2FLY]

Flybe to save Cornwall-Manchester connection | ABTN (http://www.abtn.co.uk/news/2616090-flybe-save-cornwall-manchester-connection)

[GROUNDHOG]

Pass me a bucket!!

[JSCL]

@groundhog

Hope you don't mind my leftovers already in it? If you don't, have mine.

[Outoftheblue22]

Great news that one of the ex-ASW routes has been picked up.
But I struggle to understand how Cornwall's tax-payers can support an airport which, during the winter months at least, has only a handful of flights each day and has already received tens of millions of public subsidy.
Don't take this comment the wrong way - I really want to see Newquay Airport survive and prosper - but I just don't understand the business case particularly in these times of public sector cut-backs.

[controlx]

It is a huge burden on the Cornish council tax payer but there is a degree of pride involved in retaining an independent commercial airport for the people of Cornwall. Someone needs to ask the question - how much would be knocked off each council tax bill if the airport was disposed of (and all the EU grants paid back presumably). Stack that up against the supposed economic benefit to the local area of having it there.

They should sell it. Only Gloucestershire and Newquay really still out there ready to be sold off - two quite different assets but both should be sold off and run privately.

[cornishsimon]

Stobart anyone ??

However commercial flights arent everything, i was around the area today and noticed that NQY was busy with a take off or landing every 5-10 mins.

U2 were in again and i assume doing training flights

cs

[NorthSouth]

While we're at it, what's the "business case" for the roads and railways into Cornwall, the ports and harbours owned by the council?

Answer: there is no business case. They're publicly-owned because private interests wouldn't want to run them in a way which would be acceptable to the public. And long may that continue, otherwise we descend even further into the abyss of knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.

NS

[cornishsimon]

The NQY facebook page is saying that a new route will be announced via facebook page:


There's a new route announcement on the horizon!! - 'like' our new facebook page where it will be announced soon


cs

[cornishsimon]

Also worth noting that the CO of RAF st Mawgan was interviewed on bbc radio Cornwall this morning and has suggested that the RAF base has at least a 25 year life now in its current form and that other flying training contracts were in the pipeline !

bbc news article here:
BBC News - RAF St Mawgan 'safe for 25 years' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-14415958)

and im sure that the interview is available on the iplayer if you want to search for it !!

The CO was very clear that NQY's future was certain as long as the RAF base was in existance, one couldnt survive without the other but together they were both going nowhere !

cs

[GROUNDHOG]

It has been announced that Newquay has been designated an enterprise zone, hopefully this will help in encouraging new business opportunities. Of course the local news reports it will attract thirty million jobs ( joke) but just a few would be good, so at least positive news for the area.

The hard work now begins, let's hope the council and its partners are up to it.

[cornishsimon]

GLA-NQy, BE operated by Loganair has just been announced:

This is Cornwall | Airline steps in to rescue Scottish route (http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Airline-steps-rescue-Scottish-route/story-13215161-detail/story.html)

5 weekly starting April 5th, to be operated i would guess by the Saab 340 with 34 seats

cs

[CabinCrewe]

Super news. Seems to be well used in the previous daily Dash service. Long way in a Saab though !

[edinv]

-Great news on this service. For info, from a flight miles calculator, NQY/GLA is given as 76 more miles than LSI/GLA.:)

[cornishsimon]

Any chance or loganair starting up ABZ & INV into NQY ?

cs

[BAladdy]

BE Have released the timetable for there new GLA-NQY service.

The route will be operated by a Loganair SF3..

Flights will start 05 April and will initally operate 4 x Weekly.

BE6871 GLA 10:50 NQY 12:30 SF3 4 5
BE6871 GLA 12:30 NQY 14:10 SF3 6
BE6871 GLA 17:10 NQY 18:50 SF3 7

BE6872 NQY 13:00 GLA 14:40 SF3 4 5
BE6872 NQY 14:40 GLA 16:20 SF3 6
BE6872 NQY 19:20 GLA 21:00 SF3 7

Flights will increase to 5 x Weekly from 25JUN.

BE6871 GLA 10:50 NQY 12:30 SF3 4 5
BE6871 GLA 12:30 NQY 14:10 SF3 1 6
BE6871 GLA 17:10 NQY 18:50 SF3 7

BE6872 NQY 13:00 GLA 14:40 SF3 4 5
BE6872 NQY 14:40 GLA 16:20 SF3 1 6
BE6872 NQY 19:20 GLA 21:00 SF3 7

[Aero Mad]

Any truth in the rumour which I heard in Plymouth that Aurigny are stepping in to fill the breach left by ASW on the Jersey route sometime soon?

Aurigny to look at feasibility of Newquay flights » News » Travel » This Is Guernsey (http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2011/07/16/aurigny-to-look-at-feasibility-of-newquay-flights/)

[Wycombe]

I've noticed on several occasions this week (at least according to the NQY webiste) that Skybus services which normally operate direct from St. Mary's to the likes of EXT, SOU and BRS have been operating via NQY.

Is this due operational reasons (eg, weather) or is it an attempt by Skybus to pick up some extra pax at an otherwise very underserved NQY?

[Air Hop]

Wycombe - this is normal for this time of year as the pax numbers drop off.

[MADTASS]

Apparently Flying Club going to operate out of Newquay as of November, not sure from what Date though.

[devonish]

on the local news last night, cornwall council are looking at options for selling the airport, is this good or bad? who would buy a loss making airport in this financial climate. i think the council should stop the millions it pays to the airport and see if it sinks or swims.

[Non Emmett]

Expanding on devonish's comments, the local BBC website reports that the estimated pax total for Newquay in 2011 will be 195,000. This compares with:

2004 253,000
2005 335000
2006 348000
2007 356000
2008 431000
2009 359000
2010 285000

A two month review for Cornwall Council is being carried out by Pricewaterhouse Coopers into the airport's use and proposals from airlines.

This year Cornwall Council is subsidising the airport at a cost of £3.6 millon, a figure which is expected to rise in future.

The Council is also looking at selling off some land around the site.

[JSCL]

If it was Plymouth City Council, they'd approve it for closure at those figures! It should see a rise though next year I'd expect with PLH's imminent closure.

But for an airport with such a juicy runway - I'm not too sure those figures are sustainable - private or public owned.

[Winniebago]

If Cornwall Council sell Newquay Airport presumably that would be on cash-free debt-free basis, freehold, not leasehold. If so, what's the deal on all those tens of millions they received in EU funding? Does that all have to be repaid by the buyer or by Cornwall Council? Likewise is a buyer oblidged to pick up all the Newquay staff under TUPE with all those public sector obligations, pensions etc? Any due dilligence on this opportunity would need to be a fine toothcomb job. Assuming Plymouth is shut down in December there's a small glimmer of hope for more to happen at Newquay but the cost of running and maintaining all that infrastructure over the years doesn't stack-up as a small regional airport - needs peripheral revenue as a business park with property income, a little bit easier now with their enterprise zone status, but those beneffits don't last many years.

What's the honest drive time between Newquay Airport and Exeter Airport?

[GROUNDHOG]

I believe the closure of PLH will make hardly any difference to NQY at all. The honest driving time to EXT from NQY all depends on what time of the year and what day but I would say pushing it hard about an hour and on a bad day I have actually given up trying to drive to Exeter from Falmouth. Average I'd guess at an hour and a half.

[Non Emmett]

I aqree with Groundhog, around an hour and half to typically get from Newquay Airport to Exeter but on a bad day ? Took me over two hours one day this summer to get from Truro to just south of Launceston.

Some reference to NQY airport staff and TUPE here earlier, I seem to recall hearing this summer that the airport employs 164 staff.

Cornwall Council until recently employed around 22000 staff - note I didn't say work for Cornwall Council ! I'd like to see the airport succeed but seems to me for it to remain in public ownership is going to cost the Cornish charge payer megabucks over the next few years.

[Phileas Fogg]

164 employed staff???

195,000 2011 pax divided by 365 = 534 pax per day.

534 pax divided by 164 = 3.25 daily pax per employed staff member!

It's taken a while but perhaps the council are finally realising the obvious.

[LN-KGL]

Phileas Fogg, it depends what type of employed Non Emmett heard about. Does the 164 include the gentleman trying to sell Cornish wine in the departure hall, the lady working for Cornish Tourist Board polling departing passengers and the ground handlers? If that's true, then there are a number of other airports in the UK that is also overstaffed, like MAN that has 19,000 employed at the airport with 18.6 million yearly passengers right now. This gives 2.69 daily pax per employed at the airport. An other example is my local airport (not on the British Isles though). At this airport there is 13,000 employed and they now manage to press through 20.5 million yearly passengers. This gives 4.32 daily pax per employed at the airport. In other words, if the answer to my question is yes, then Newquay is better than the relatively successful MAN.

[Baltasound]

Driving sensibly, it will take roughly 90mins to get from NQY to EXT on a typical winters day. Add 30mins for the summer season.

On the horizon there are two interesting developments which may have a bearing on Newquay. Firstly is the sheer amount of building which has been pencilled in for the aforesaid sceptic spot on the backside of Cornwall plus in the Truro area and secondly the CC have eurowads to spend on the railway infrastructure. Whereas, prima facie the latter doesn't seem to have that much bearing on the airport's future, if the most "sexy" option of the various which are being discussed is acted upon (reinstating the link across the 'Moor from St.Austell) then airport will become a lot more attractive to those travelling by public transport.

[cornishsimon]

Newquay Cornwall Airport - FLYBE'S 2012 HOT SUMMER SCHEDULE TAKES OFF FROM NEWQUAY (http://www.newquaycornwallairport.com/index.cfm?articleid=49536)
Nothing new for NQY by the looks of it, still only 4 weekly MAN, the current LGW and EDI
No mention of the Loganair service to GLA but i suppose thats because its not BE operated
its a shame that theres nothing new for NQY
cs

[nonemmet]

I've said it once before, Newquay Airport is in the wrong place and it's too big. It should be sold off for building once an alternative site has been found and developed. An efficient strip still in Cornwall but closer to Plymouth, close to the A30 or A38 and the railway line, makes far more sense.

[Phileas Fogg]

And call it Cornwall/Camelot Airport and site it on Davidstow Moor Airfield!

In Cornwall one can have roads or one can have railways, only heliport(s) seem capable of bringing the two together. :)

[pennineuk]

BIH have now confirmed that they are transferring to Newquay their helicopter service to St.Marys and Tresco, at least on an interim basis.

"British International will continue operating from its current location until 30th June 2012, thereafter, we will operate the service from Newquay Airport. We are pleased to announce all fares will remain the same price as published on our website"

[NorthSouth]

all fares will remain the same price as published on our websitewith 27 extra track miles on every flight it'll be interesting to see how long that commitment lasts. Plus they'll be in direct competition with Skybus and with no advantage over them in terms of check-in procedures, requirements for taxi-ing and use of the runway for take-off, and indeed approach minima to cope with the 376ft height difference between Penzance and Newquay.
NS

[Wycombe]

I guess there might be a small percentage of occasions when the S61 can operate and the Twotter can't (surface wind?), but if the mists and fogs of North Cornwall descend it will be grounded just the same.

Although I never thought I'd describe a Twotter as fast, I would guess it has a good 30-40 kts on the S61?

[pennineuk]

The move to NQY is temporary. BIH are still looking for an alertnative site in West Cornwall, although they claim the best was the now dropped St.Erth site.

[Phileas Fogg]

St. Just is easier to get to/from the mainline railway, particularly if Skybus started laying on shuttle buses, it is nearer to ISC and if it's the same or similar price as the nightmare of travelling from/to NQY then I'd suggest BIH have, at present, shot themselves in the foot selling the PZE site before having approval(s) for an alternative site.

I'd further suggest that there is plenty of land adjacent to the mainline railway and, so far, BIH went for the 'lazy', 'cheap', option of resiting adjacent to an existing rail station ... I'd suggest that BIH look at a site that requires building a new rail station adjacent to that site.

OK, the Tresco route has no competition but Tresco (alone) ain't going to finance BIH's Cornwall operation!

[pennineuk]

There were initial discussions for BIH to relocate to St Just by the ISS Group refused access. BIH can't afford to build a railway station as the sale of PZE is about releasing capital to buy new machines for their North Sea operation. Any new site will be leased...otherwise why sell the freehold site in PZE in the first place!

[Phileas Fogg]

St. Just is owned/operated by Skybus, Skybus say who uses the airfield, and Skybus are hardly likely, in a million years, to let their No.! competitor in there!

[GROUNDHOG]

Phileas is right it is crucial BIH find a spot near the railway line or with an easy link to it otherwise I fear that it will be the end of the helicopter service.

They can land in my garden if they like but I fear the neighbours might not be too happy!

[bazilbutler]

What does everyone think about NQY having a go at getting some interest from BA with regard to heavy/380 maintenance then?

[Non Emmett]

As per usual, some interesting comments on this thread.

Heavy/380 maintenance at Newquay? Plenty of runway and presumably parking area adjacent to the 404 hangar on the south side - and isn't the airfield becoming an Enterprise Zone ? How beneficial will that be ? Cornwall needs the work and presumably labour rates down here would be rather lower than in many established centres.

I spoke to someone a day or so ago who attended the meeting at St. Erth where the locals roundly rejected the BIH proposals for the heliport in their area - seems there was hell up which is a Cornish way of saying it didn't go too well....... I appreciate the Skybus people don't want the competition at Lands End but aren't most of the top brass Scillonians and wouldn't the failure of the helicopter service have a very serious impact on the economy of the Islands ?

I am going to Tresco shortly on the S-61 route, £179 return. How much might it conceivably cost if BIH need to operate out of NQY for any length of time ? It takes an age to get anything through planning in Cornwall and therefore it seems to me highly unlikely that BIH are going to be able to find an alternative site and getting planning approval and be up and running in any reasonable timescale.

If it currently costs over two pounds per mile on the S-61 route out of Penzance might it not need to increase by around £100 to cover the increased distance to be flown on each trip.

[Phileas Fogg]

Why are people so fascinated with aircraft that go up and down to/from the skies?

These aircraft can operate to/from the islands, St. Mary's, Tresco, and others, year round no matter what the tide and would also give the flat bottomed Scillonian 'Vomit Comet' a run for it's money.

Just build a facility very close to Penzance Rail Station:

Products - Griffon Hoverwork (http://www.griffonhoverwork.com/products)

[jabird]

Sounds like Coventry City selling their stadium long before getting the new one built not so long ago. Get the new facility in place before selling up, running an air transport business needn't be rocket science, unless you think you are the bearded one.

[pennineuk]

It's all about the money in the end...not just the planning or even finding a site.

I love your very appropriate description of the Scillonian; one reason why I hope both BIH and Skybus continue to thrive!

[Devonair]

I see Loganair are to commence a new twice weekly route to NWI.

[GROUNDHOG]

Confused as it says on the Exeter thread this will be operated by Flybe? Whoever it is still good news.

[Skipness One Echo]

Loganair operating as a flybe franchise. All tickets and branding as per the latter.

[looseheadprop]

Correction SOE. NQY-NWI is being operated by Flybe, not Loganair as its franchise partner

[Wycombe]

News of more BE routes for this Summer apparently to be announced tomorrow (see Flybe thread) of weekly (Sat) flights from NCL and BHD, starting May :ok:

There was also news recently that the LH DUS service is going twice weekly during the Summer peak.

[Cloud1]

They would be better off doing NCL and BHD maybe Fri and Mon or something. That way, those just wanting a weekend relaxing or joining those off their face in the streets with a bottle in hand, would be able to do it rather than have to stay the whole week in NQY. If you are a surfer its great, but a week for me would be a bit much.

[cornishsimon]

I would tend to agree that 1x weekly routes arent much good. You could do with 2x weekly, say Wednesday and Sunday perhaps ?

good news however about LH, 2x weekly during the main summer season is what iv been predicting for a year or so now. I could also see the LH route having the season expanded at some stage and then maybe another German route added, for some reason the Germans do love Cornwall !

cs

[Wycombe]

The Germans do, and so do the Dutch from what I've seen during my annual summertime jaunts to Cornwall, although most of the latter seem to come with tents, caravans and campervans.

The German love affair with Cornwall is apparently at least partly to do with the serialisation of Rosamund Pilcher novels (set in Cornwall) on German TV.

[Seven Fifty Seven]

Looseheadprop

definitely says in the press up here, NQY-NWI on Loganair Do328. :-)

[pennineuk]

BIH annouced today that they will continue to operate from Penzance until 31 October 2012. Sounds like they are looking at site close to the current heliport, so maybe we'll never see their choppers at NQY.

[PlymouthPixie]

Was never going to work anyway.

I calculated they make about 2000£ per flight, from PZE, over a 1000£ is on fuel, landing fees and staff costs, with the additional distance, and fixed prices they wouldn't be far off making a loss at NQY.

[Aero Mad]

Are you giving the net or gross profit figures?

[PlymouthPixie]

2000£ would be the gross profit, and they make around 1000£ if not less net profit per flight.

[cornishsimon]

definitely says in the press up here, NQY-NWI on Loganair Do328. :-)


BE actually sent around an email correcting this information after the press release went out !



so maybe we'll never see their choppers at NQY


we already see them at NQY, certainly since BIH moved mx to NQY

cs