Thomsonfly FTE Scheme [Archive]

Hmmm

12th May 2005, 09:40

At the risk of sounding like a complete idiot, who exactly placed the advert, FTE or Thomsonfly? And who is running this 'scheme'?

Am I right in assuming this is nothing more than a standard self-funded fATPL course dressed up to look more glamorous than it really is? With no real interaction from the airline at all?

Who exactly is running the selection stages? Is it FTE (meaning expensive trips to Jerez in the early summer) or Thomsonfly?

Not meaning to sound too sceptical here, but it seems like an attempt to fill some places in Jerez.

PIGDOG

12th May 2005, 09:53

I kinda agree with Hmmm (?!?!) I do have doubts.

Thanks Taiguin for that guy's webpage.

The question still remains though. Are Thomson actually going to employ anyone? Will these people be left to find their own jobs (and pay off the bond) if Thomson opt out. It does seem that the student is taking all the risk, and the training org getting all the benefits, with Thomson having an easy recruitment process, if they even decide to recruit, when the course ends.

The add was dressed up to look like the Thomsonfly colours but I can't remember who's overseeing the recruitment.

Taiguin

12th May 2005, 12:25

Guys,

To put everybodies mind at rest here is my view on the whole scheme.

Thomsonfly, aka Britannia using a different trade name, are putting potential candidates through a selection process. The assessment stage which people will be invited too if successful on the question stage will occur in England and i assume before the end of May. (This is in the email when the questions are sent to you.)

Those selected at the end of this will then contract with Flight Training Europe for their normal integrated course. This is 92000 Euro's i think. The same way you would if you were self sponsored. Throughout the course however Thomsonfly will monitor the progress of these candidates and if at the end of the course they have reached the required standard and there are jobs within Thomsonfly they will be awarded jobs without going through the normal Britannia recruitment process and simulator check. There is no guarentee but a good chance of employment.

The way i see it is as follows. If i am not successfull at CTC then i will pay for it myself through and integrated course at a flight training organisation. Doing this means i'll be in debt or the order 70000+ and potential without a job. This scheme appeals to people like me purely because it reduces the risk of not getting employed. It is not a guarenteed job but if there are jobs available which you would expect given thomsonfly's expansion then you'll get one. This makes the decision to pay for the training that much easier. I think your suspicion of Jerez using it as a way to get student in is outrageous. Purely because if this was the case not only would they be disgracing themselves but Britannia/Thomsonfly would be disgraced too. Britannia also did some full and some self sponsorship last year so its not a new thing.

Thats my rather lengthy opinion on the situation. If you don't like the sound of it then don't apply easy as that. Hope this helps guys,

Taiguin :ok:

Hmmm

12th May 2005, 13:19

Taiguin,

Thanks for that information.

However, the suspisions are by no means 'outrageous' as you say. They are totally reasonable. The FTE website really has very little on the selection procedure, funding arrangements for succesful applicants, structure of course, involvement of airline etc. The application form asks if you have A-levels in 'Phisics' and 'Chemistrys', which, in my opinion, are very poor spelling mistakes for such companies to have on an application form. All of these things made me wonder what sort of scheme this was, thats all. The spelling mistakes suggest that this is pioneered by FTE and not Thomsonfly. It just doesn't quite have the feel that other schemes, including the previous FTE/Thomsonfly scheme, have.

Good luck to all those that apply!

Taiguin

12th May 2005, 15:03

Hey Mate,

Outrageous seemed a little harsh a word to describe your claims -i agree. I take on board what your saying but i still think its a little far fetched to think the FTE are behind the supposed scheme. It would cripple the school if somebody found that out....so is it worth it for them. 700,000 say vs No reputation!?

The spelling mistakes are quite funny and i hope it doesn't reflect on the company more the fact they were in a rush to do it. I hope they let any of my spelling mistakes go in my application. I guess it will be clearer when people start having interviews etc as to who is behind the scheme for real. I'm pretty certain it will be Britannia tho!

Good luck if you apply.

Taiguin.

Just a quick not to add after looking at the spelling mistakes. It was probably wrote by FTE on behalf of Thomsonfly anyhow. Maybe the spanish persons english wasn't too good. A point to consider.

PIGDOG

12th May 2005, 15:10

Taiguin,

I guess you're right. They couldn't really afford in the long run to take people for a ride.

The reason I was wanting to hear info was to get an idea of the situation. I'm not going to go committing £60,000+ without investigating first, and no-one else should either.

Hope all goes well for all.

Tallbloke

12th May 2005, 15:30

Why was it advertised under Courses and Tuition in Flight rather than Jobs? I would expect a school to advertise under Courses and Tuition and an airline to advertise under Jobs.

travnet

12th May 2005, 17:13

well all!!!

how are things?? here is my spin on the whole situation and my experience with FTE to date

ok so in november of last year I applied to the thomsonfly.com cadetship run by FTE and was sent a generic e-mail saying that i was unseuccessful this time round (no suprise there)

ok so say the ad in flight international 3-9th may applied for it again on the 5th of may and on the 6th of may got an e-mail back from FTE saying the same as last year exact same e-mail!!! they never said why I diddnt get through just that there was a lot of applications!!! now i was p***ed over this as it said closin date was 15th of may so i felt they should wait till then to make decission (i also went on to their website on sunday 8th of may [fte's site] and found that they had removed the link for applying even though they said closing date was not till 15th of may) so I e-mailed them back on sunday 8th and explained all above to them and asked why i wasnt accepted (it ended up been a bit of a b****y e-mail). ok so they e-mailed me back on tuesday 10th and said it was because I hadnt the right academic grades (3 alevels) thats fair enough except im from ireland so we dont have a levels we have the leaving cert which is equilivent so again went on their website on tuesday and descovered they had the link back up so i applied again this time saying that i had 7 a levels which is how many exams i did for leaving cert i then replied to 'nicola' in FTE explained that i applied again and this time told her the story about my exams im also a qualified aircraft maintenance technican and have done some aeronautical exams so i told here that too!! anyway yesterday got reply saying i was through to phase 2 now just have to fill out these 7 questions by tomorrow!!! HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SO BOYS IF YOU DONT SUCEDE DONT GIVE UP THEY WANT TO SEE THAT YOUR WILLING TO FIGHT THEM FOR THE CHANCE OF THE JOB

sorry this was a bit long but thought it was valuable to write!!!

best of luck lads with it and hope i might see you at selection in the UK soon!!!

PIGDOG

12th May 2005, 19:36

Don't despair Travnet (Are you only a Travnetsite on weekends?? :D )

Funnily I also have leaving cert, but since living in the uk I've learnt not to differentiate. They never even think that there is anything but A levels, so I just tell them that I have A levels. (I'm privately convinced that leaving cert is not the equivilent, but of a much higher standard:suspect: ;))

If they get picky I explain. If they're happy, then I don't. It hasn't been a problem so far.

In your answers, just be honest, tell them what you can and don't worry.

Just remember that you're not fighting for a job, you're fighting for them to let you pay them money to train you, and to be considered for a job. Massive difference.

Slán agus sláinte.

Mattd

16th May 2005, 20:18

Went to check the FTE website again, seems that the link has now changed to a BA CitiExpress scheme......exactly the same form, but with BA substituted for Britannia.....

wubalaj

16th May 2005, 21:32

FTE has recently secured a Self-sponsored scheme along similar lines to the Thomsonfly gig.....As a student here, i can say it is really beginning to happen for the college at the moment. Think there may be even more companies starting this type of scheme at FTE in the near future too.

I believe the Thomsonfly course will start in June and 2 BACX courses, one in August and one in Oct. Fill your boots guys, now is the time to get involved.

Tallbloke

16th May 2005, 23:38

The point is that it is not a Thompsonfly or BACX course, is it. These are FTE courses, paid for by the students, not the airlines. At the end of the day are graduates from these courses any more likely to get a job with the partner airlines than any other Jerez graduate? If the answer to this question is no, then what exactly do the advertised courses offer over any other Jerez course? The present ad in Flight offers "finance toward a JOC / MCC" or some such, but such offers have been made to any student who signs up for the integrated CPL/IR at Jerez. To me it (sadly) sounds like an effort at attracting students.

Groundloop

17th May 2005, 08:22

I thought at least on the Thomsonfly scheme Thomsonfly are involved in the selection of the student. Therefore students accepted on this scheme will have already passed Thomsonfly selection and as long as they do well on the course and Thomsonfly have vacancies when they finish they will be first in the queue.

I said it before (and got shot down in flames!) but the Thomsonfly scheme is not really any different from CTC and yet everybody accepts CTC as a valid route these days. In both CTC and Thomsonfly the student has to provide ALL the funding (help is provided for sourcing) but, even at CTC, if times go bad and there in no job at the end (no guarantees!) the student still has to pay off the loan.

wubalaj

17th May 2005, 11:10

Tallbloke, I am afraid you haven't a clue what you are talking about. All the self sponsored scemes that take place here under the auspices of related airlines are fully endorsed by those airlines who have a genuine undertaking to employ their selected candidates after training.

Of course there are no guarantees as with anything for a low hours wannabe at the moment so yes there is significant risk involved. Fact is that the bean counters are not authorising any risk at all at the moment for renewed full sponsorship schemes and are unlikely to for a long time yet. For someone that is not approved at FTE believe me something would be better than nothing and these schemes are definitely worth a shot. Like it or not this is the type of scheme that is emerging as the prefered route post 9/11 and I believe is here to stay.

As regards to CTC the whole product offered here is entirely different and much better value for money as the course is integrated and you get all the groudschool taught and not learned off a computer 14,000 miles away in NZ. PLus when you eventually start with an airline you will be paid a decent wage instead of being paid the shocking payscales akin to those set up for CTC grads with Easyjet for 7 years!!

PIGDOG

17th May 2005, 14:39

Well wubalaj,

If the airlines bean counters aren't going to take on any risk, then why should students, who would be in a much worse situation to pay off a debt, should all go tits-up.?

These are professionals, and if it is as you say, then there is no point in putting our own (god forbid) money up front.

Have these people ever heard of risk sharing. I'm sure your parents told you when you were very young that sharing is nice. Well, it's true. Otherwise I feel like I'm being taken for a ride.

wubalaj

17th May 2005, 15:04

Thing is Schweinhund I totally agree with you.......Wait around and see what happens but you will be waiting a bloody long time and probably be far too old to do it when the airlines do have sponsorships again. I am not the kind of person who wants to get to middle age wishing I had grown some balls when I was younger and gone into the profession I always wanted to do.

Remember also that in the past the BA sponsorship had up to 55,000 applicants each year for 100 places........May be you actually stand more chance of making it in the present climate?!?

PIGDOG

17th May 2005, 15:12

That's a fair point.

However, I think I'll just save up a bit, do PPL. Save up a bit, do ME. Save up a bit, do IR. Save up a bit...etc.

Not that I'm saying it's the best for everyone out there. It's just the answer I've come to after thinking about it for a long time.

It works out cheaper in the end, with no debt hung about thy neck. It's at your own pace. And if you decide not to go professional, it's a damn fine hobby.

Cheers All

Schwein-Hund

Mattd

17th May 2005, 16:24

Anyone had a response to the 2nd Phase questions?

Matt

silverknapper

17th May 2005, 17:14

Wubalaj

Any chance you are just a tad biased? You compare CTC and FTE. They are completely different. Compare how many students from each are now working on a jet - CTC have a far superior employment rate. Also you don't hand over cash with CTC - FTE you do.
The Thomsonfly scheme really doesn't mean much. They don't have to take you, much the same as any low hour guys they do take don't have to come from there. Indeed they have taken on modular guys recently.
Also do you think that a brand new cadet at Thomson will earn more than a CTC wings graduate? If you do then think again. Perhaps you were knocked back from CTC?

Not often I defend them, but your post was garbage.

Charley

17th May 2005, 17:22

Wubalaj wrote:

All the self sponsored scemes that take place here under the auspices of related airlines are fully endorsed by those airlines who have a genuine undertaking to employ their selected candidates after training.

Do the guys going on the Thomsonfly/BACX endorsed schemes have a written contract to this effect? Or is it a 'genuine undertaking' based on goodwill?

(A simple yes/no answer to the former question from someone with direct experience will suffice. No hearsay required.)

Many thanks.

Charley

17th May 2005, 18:23

Empennage, thanks for that. Good to get a bit more information about it.

That said, the question I asked still stands. Is there any kind of legally-binding contract?

For example;

are the company contractually obliged to offer you employment at the end of the course (subject to passing the appropriate checks)?
are you contractually obliged to join Thomson at the end of the course should they offer such employment, or are you free to keep your own options open and go elsewhere if you wish?
Simple answers will be much appreciated. By the way, I'm not trying to knock it, any extra foothold in this industry (such as the liaison officer and access staff website) is A Good Thing. Especially if you're effectively getting it all for free, if it's the same price as a non-endorsed self-sponsored FTE course.

I'm merely interested (as, I suspect, are some others) in what each parties binding obligations actually are.

Thanks again.

Charley :)

fastjet2k

17th May 2005, 18:29

As has been said in previous posts, the Thomsonfly/BACX schemes do not guarantee jobs. However, if you were going to bite the bullet and go and do a course would you not rather do it under the umbrella of an airline. I am not on the Thomsonfly scheme myself, I'm here with different attachments - however had I not been succesful in my initial endeavour then I would have applied as I was always going to do the course, just a question of how.

I realised a long time ago that I was going to have to finance the cost of my training. Even in the so called golden era when BA were fully sponsoring, you went in on a fairly well reduced cadet salary and had to pay back around £15000 over 5 years. Either way, you made a fairly substantial contribution to the cost of your training, it's just being done a little differently now.

As has been said in the post by empennage, Thomsonfly do take an interest in the training of the cadets on their scheme and they will be the first to get jobs upon graduation, assuming the airline requires flight crew at that time. There are those who have asked why they should take the risk financially, why shouldn't the airline do it? Well, dya know what - if you don't, somebody else will...

silverknapper

17th May 2005, 19:44

This scheme is the closest anyone will get to the halcyon days of airline sponsorship

Rubbish. CTC is the closest thing to airline sponsorship - and a much better scheme than this.
And people joining Thomson under this umbrella will not be on the same Thomsonfly F/O salary that a Direct entry experienced F/O would be on.

fastjet2k

17th May 2005, 20:19

Rubbish.

but your post was garbage

Silverknapper, you come across as very arrogant and know it all. Many fair comments have been put on here by individuals in order to give opinions to which they are entitled. You are, of course, also entitled to yours but I feel your rudeness is totally unnecessary. I only hope that Thomsonfly need more pilots when they've finished recruiting the guys/girls off their scheme if you want to fly for them......

PIGDOG

17th May 2005, 20:22

fastjet2k said:

"There are those who have asked why they should take the risk financially, why shouldn't the airline do it? Well, dya know what - if you don't, somebody else will..."

Well, I have no problem paying for myself, and I probably will. I just feel that it's my money, so I'll do the whole thing on my terms. I'm certainly not going to hand over A LOT of money and have next to no say. Again, this is my opinion, and you're right, there a plenty of others who are willing to go on to a scheme like this. And I genuienly hope they do very well at it. Just not my cup of tea.

A valid question has been left unanswered: If after satisfactory completion Thomsonfly offer a nice little job, can you refuse and go elsewhere?

9mm

17th May 2005, 21:01

PIGDOG,

You ask ‘If the airlines bean counters aren't going to take on any risk, then why should students, who would be in a much worse situation to pay off a debt, should all go tits-up.?’

My question to you is: are you being serious when you ask this question?

Why should the students take the risk and not the airline? It’s very simple – because there are hundreds if not thousands of guys and a fair amount of girls willing to spend thousands with the hope of an airline job.

I have to agree with wubalaj, fastjet2k et al, a course affiliated with an airline is not to be knocked even if a job at the end isn’t set in stone. I would much rather take my seventy grand chance with an approved scheme than be just be another guy. There will always be people that poo poo these schemes for the sake of poo pooing something. Sad bast_rds.

Good Luck to those having a pop at the Thompsonfly scheme.

9mm

travnet

17th May 2005, 22:17

hey just sent in my answers for the 2nd phase ythere on sunday and just waiting for reply now!! anyone else send in their's??

PIGDOG

17th May 2005, 23:11

9mm

My point about the bean counters was that they are people in the know. If they're not going to spend ANY money (part sponsorship, etc) then isn't it a big, flashing, warning, neon light that there isn't going to be a good enough return on their investment, or the risk is too great.

I'm certainly not poo-pooing paying for training, nor anyone who decides to take that route. My point is that shouldn't the airline at least commit to something more than just "if we want you at the time then we'll see"!!

That's all my point was. I certainly wasn't looking for some topic to 'poo-poo'. This is a genuine concern of mine, since I'm interested in finding out about the details. I certainly don't appreciate being called a sad b*****d for asking questions and I think it was out of order.

I'll say again, just to emphasise, that I really do hope that all who get on this do very well out of it. The cons outway the pros FOR ME. But you guys have a good crack at it.

Another (genuine) question:
Do Thomson pay you back the bond over a period of time after employment? Easyjet do it I think, but I'm not sure.

Thanks

fastjet2k

17th May 2005, 23:38

PIGDOG,

It's of my humble opinion that the airlines are following the philosophy of business and economics - basic supply and demand will dictate that as long as there are people out there who will pay for their training, negating the need of the airlines to provide funding, then these sort of schemes will continue. As I mentioned earlier, in the past the sponsorships were partly paid back through reduced salaries and repayment of a proportion of the training costs. I'll agree that this was far more economical for the cadet, both in terms of not accruing interest and that you then don't pay tax on your repayments. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll be seeing a return to those days, at least not until the airlines run out of individuals who are prepared to pay for the cost of their training...

With regards to the Thomsonfly scheme and in reference to what I've written above, I would much rather come down here with contacts and a good chance of employment at the end than come down here with absolutely nothing. The selection for the scheme is not done by FTE, it's done by Thomsonfly and as a result they are investing a reasonable sum of money into that. As a business, they would not do this if they did not have a reasonable expectation of taking cadets into the airline upon successful completion of the course. Equally, it gives the cadet confidence knowing that if they can be successful going through a selection scheme such as that, then it clearly indicates a capability of passing an airline recruitment programme. As has been said, cadets do have the opportunity at all times (provided they weren't sponsored in any way) to go to another airline upon graduation.

As to your question regarding the airline paying back training costs, as far as I'm aware the loan remains the responsibility of the cadet. If I'm wrong on this, I'll ask one of my colleagues from the scheme to post here and put me right.

Whichever way you choose to be right for you, all the very best of luck...

Cheers, FJ2K

PIGDOG

18th May 2005, 08:32

I know what you mean fastjet2k. I just don't like it. :\ :{

Here's a plan. How about if all the wannabes say NO to paying for training, then the 'lines will have to start proper sponsorship. If we were to get all the wannabes in the world to agree to this, then waited for the pilot supply to dry up, the world would be our oyster!! :D :D

Ah well, maybe not. All the best you lot.

Groundloop

18th May 2005, 09:02

Silverknapper says "Also you don't hand over cash with CTC - FTE you do." !!!

Direct from the CTC website:-

"Because this is a significant exposure to us, you will be required to deposit a cash bond of £60,000 as security."

Maybe you don't actually hand over a bunch of dirty fivers at CTC but you still have to sign away your life on a loan guarantee? You might not actually see the money but you are still signing for it.

Silverknapper also says "The Thomsonfly scheme really doesn't mean much. They don't have to take you". Neither do any of the so-called sponsoring airlines at CTC. If they don't have vacancies at the end of the course, they don't take you!

9mm

18th May 2005, 09:04

Mr DOG,

I wasn’t clear in what I said above. I was not referring to you as someone that was sneering at this scheme. My response to your question was directed at you but the generalisation about the scheme was not. I certainly had no intention of offending you and apologise if I did.

I understand precisely where you are coming from when you question the commitment financially or otherwise from an airline in today’s style of cadet schemes. I realised early on that all the risk in this game lies squarely on the shoulders of the wannabe themselves. It is unfair and it is sad, but it is the way it is and everybody here wishes things were different.

As you rightly state it is the right of each individual to spend their money how they wish on a service that they feel offers the best value for their money. Anything that improves the chances of an airline job is surely worth something. Admittedly if you are set on the modular approach and hope to spend £20k less than on an integrated course then you could well justify that a scheme that has no guarantees may not be worth the extra cash. That is probably of more relevance to your personal modular versus integrated debate than it is when discussing the merits of a cadet scheme.

All the best whatever decisions you make or are made for you.

9mm

sammy shamal

18th May 2005, 15:48

Something that you must take into account as a plus from the whole of these schemes and mustn´t get distracted from, is that ThomsonFly and BAcitiExpress will have the ultimate decision if you are good enough for their airline.

The Airlines will select you, not to fill places in the hope of finding you employment, but they will select you because you are the type of person that they want driving their multimillion pound jets or shiny turboprops! All FTE do is reduce the lots of applications to a number that is much more manageable for an airline, and cost effective to deal with.

Along with the Airlines liasion officer you end up with a much more personal scheme for both the student and the airline knowing a great deal about each other before the type rating begins!
Cadets would be looking to get the thumbs up for employment roughly 6-8 weeks before course completion as the airline will have to book a place on the type rating course for the student.

To help you compare the schemes with CTC, Second Officer starting salary at ThomsonFly is about 27,000 Pounds before allowances. Unsure about BACitiX.

Good luck if you are going for either schemes!

Sammy

Taiguin

19th May 2005, 09:26

Peeps,

Anybody heard anything from Thomsonfly yet? I just got the BA CitiExpress questions and they are unfortunately different! So not a simple copy and paste job!

I agree with what people are saying with regard to these schemes being pretty much the same as CTC. The only real difference i see is that the money is easier to get with CTC's backing. Otherwise they are the same and both could go tits up and you could end up with no job at the end of it.

As far as i'm concerned i'm taking the plunge anyhow so i'd rather reduce the risk of not getting a job at the end by applying to these schemes!

Adios amigo's....hopefully i'll be saying that a lot soon in JEREZ. Good luck everyone!

Me :ok:

boeingboeingbong

19th May 2005, 12:03

Hello everyone,

I too have heard nothing from Thomson as yet and was beginning to feel a little anxious! From their website it states that succesful candidates would know by the end of May - I took that to mean that the whole process would be done by then because arranging finance for a July start date would, for me, be a little tricky!

If anyone hears anything it would be great if you could let us all know, similarly, I will pop a message on to advise if I have heard from them.

Cheers!

Taiguin

19th May 2005, 14:39

Boeing,

I'm pretty certain we get to know wether we're through to the next round before end of may. Not however if we are on the scheme by then. Still annoying having to wait though!

The money might be a little easier to get together if you have an airlines backing but i agree with you that its still pushing it time wise!

I had planned to start in July so if i do get through then i've got it sorted anyhow.

Good luck buddy,

Taiguin

Mattd

19th May 2005, 15:48

I've heard nothing back either, neither has another person I know.....

Curious to know if people who have applied to Thomson/Britannia have also applied to CitiExpress?

I can't see any harm in applying to both?

Matt

Taiguin

19th May 2005, 15:55

I've applied to both mate. :cool:

boeingboeingbong

19th May 2005, 16:13

I too applied to both.......

travnet

19th May 2005, 17:02

well lads..

I still haven't heard anything back from thomson of the phase 2 results.. out of curiosity when did ye all e-mail your answers for the questions i did mine last sat the 15th.

I also applied for BACE but they e-mailed me back sayin that i was unsuccessful how the h**l is that considering i got through the thomson phase.

anyway lads keep the chin up, we should hear soon from them!!!

I too have to start looking for ways to get the money together, anyone else here from Ireland applyed for this if so where r ye gettin the money.. will FTE help us get a loan from HSBC?? Does anyone know could I seeing that I live in ireland get a loan from HSBC in England??

Mattd

19th May 2005, 19:04

Trav,

Quite a few Irish people I've know have managed to secure the bond for CTC (60,000), so I guess you should be able too.....

Oscar Juliet

20th May 2005, 13:04

Has everybody received the supplementary questions for the BACX scheme?

It looks like it's going to be a popular scheme!

The e-mail said:
"We have had a particularly high volume and high standard response for this scheme, and in order to be able to shortlist for Phase 3, we would ask you to answer the attached supplementary questions."

Taiguin

20th May 2005, 13:37

Yeah mate i have too. Its a ball ache!! I thought i'd seen the back of the questions when i sent them this morning!! I've got my dissertation to write too.....

Good luck with them anyhow. Must be competitive your correct!

Taiguin

jb5000

23rd May 2005, 14:47

Anyone heard back from BACX / FTE yet?

Taiguin

23rd May 2005, 17:22

Hey guys,

Just to let you know that i have recieved an email this evening invitiing me to Stage 3 of the Thomsonfly scheme. So get checking your emails!

Mine is on the 1st June at EMA. PM me if any of you are going to that day.

Good luck to everyone,

Taiguin

:ok:

Grass strip basher

23rd May 2005, 17:40

Congratulations on getting to stage 3.... think in 2-3 months you could be sippin' sangria in southern Spain .... any idea how many people are being invited to stage 3 (didn't apply myself just curious on the attrition rate)...:}

Oscar Juliet

23rd May 2005, 18:09

Well done Taiguin. I've made it to stage 3 as well! I'm delighted.

Mine is at 1:15 on Thursday 2nd June, is anybody else going next Thursday?

Good Luck to all going

OJ

niraj.patel

23rd May 2005, 18:15

Hi everyone!

I've got my Thomsonfly Stage 3 testing day on Tuesday 31st May at 9.00am.

Anyone know what will be required during Stage 3?

Thanks,

Niraj.

Troydi

23rd May 2005, 18:38

Fantastic news! I'm also on to stage 3! Just working on getting to the UK for the 2nd June now, nothing like a challenge when you finish exams the day beforehand! ;)

Hope to see some of you there!

niraj.patel

23rd May 2005, 18:41

If you're looking for how to get there, see:

http://www.eastmidlandsairport.com/en/customer-information/getting-here/expanded-map.html

Although that only displays local routes. You\'re probably best off starting here:

http://www.nottinghamema.com/

Taiguin

23rd May 2005, 19:40

Niraj & Oscar Juliet,

Do you guys go to Loughborough University?

If so what courses do you both do? I'm here doing Aeronautical Engineering.

Taiguin

Troydi

23rd May 2005, 19:45

Thanks for the links. Hopefully it should be ok. Good luck to everyone, with a bit of luck should may be meeting you down in sunny Jerez!

Oscar Juliet

23rd May 2005, 19:58

Taiguin

I am at Loughborough University, so I don't have far to go next week! I'm a first year Aero Eng student. I take it you are at Leicester Uni?

niraj.patel,
Check your PMs.

Good luck

OJ

niraj.patel

23rd May 2005, 20:08

Hi guys!

Yes, Loughborough is very close to EMA, or should I say NEMA now! I'm surprised so many people are living or haved lived in Loughborough. There I was thinking Loughborough was a really small town no one had heard of! Small world I guess.

But no, I didn't go to Loughborough University or Leicester University. I read law at Nottingham University.

All the best,

Niraj.

Guys I should also mention that I went to FTE in Jerez at the end of April, and besides being "highly recommended" for their Integrated Course, the place is fantastic and both the staff and students are very nice. Seriously, you guys would love it down there!

travnet

23rd May 2005, 20:48

well boys got my date for friday 3rd of june!! should be able to make it but dont know yet!! do you think FTE will give me another date if i ask??

also did anyone else get friday 3rd of june??

anyone from ireland going?

and one more thing! can FTE help you get the loan??

niraj.patel

23rd May 2005, 21:09

Travnet,

Having visited FTE in Jerez, I can confirm they can help with the loan. They have an arrangement with a bank, or you could choose to go to HSBC. If you pass FTE's test, they will supply you with an offer letter. This letter is used to help get the loan.

I'm sure FTE would let you change dates if you cannot make it on Friday. Though it would help if you could arrange it with someone yourself to swap dates. I'm on Tuesday, is that any good for you?

Regards,

Niraj.

Taiguin

23rd May 2005, 21:32

Hey OJ,

I'm actually at Loughborough Uni too and studying the same course. I'm in the dreaded final year though. Got my flipping final year project to be handed in next thursday so i'm going to have to finish it off on Tuesday me thinks!

I know another guy who is going to the assesment centre out of my course so that makes four of us who have some relation to Loughborough Niraj. Your right that is a bit wierd!!

Anyhow wishing you all the best...

Taiguin

boeingboeingbong

25th May 2005, 10:09

I am down for the 31st of May, should be a laugh!
Hopefully I will not be ostracised for not being at Loughborough Uni!
See you there!

stevejames53

25th May 2005, 11:11

I'm on for the 31st May as well at 0900.

I've got no idea what to expect from the assessment day, but I have already been down to FTE and it's great down there - I'd really love to go, but it may not be possible with the loan repayments being what they are. But hey ho, it's another string to the old bow. I'm hoping that they use similar tests to FTE as that could benefit me seeing as I've already done them ;)

I'll see some of you guys down there, niraj and boeingboeingboeing (are you down for the 0900 time?).

steve

Taiguin

25th May 2005, 11:31

Steve,

You should be finishing that dissertation young man! Actually come to think of it....sho should I!

stevejames53

25th May 2005, 11:39

You're gonna hate me but it's 98% done - I'm just finalising stuff - I mite even be ready to print it before the weekend. Don't hate me for it!!

But then again, as my Nan says - 'you never know what's hanging till it drops' - so I might well find something horribly wrong with my results and need to do a re write!!

Anyway - to get back on topic good luck to everyone who is going - has anyone got an appointment on monday 30th that could give us a heads up about what it's all about? unless you're competitve and don't want to help us!!

steve

Troydi

25th May 2005, 13:16

Hi Guys, thought I'd share with you some info. I emailed Thomsonfly and asked them how they were going to run the selection next week. Here is their reply:

"There is a half day of selection tests, to include PILAPT (Pilot Aptitude),
Verbal and Numerical, 16 PF (Personality profile) and an interview. If you
are recommended to Thomsonfly after Phase 3, you will be asked to attend a
further interview with the Airline."

Hope this helps you!

Anyone going there on Thursday at 9am?

Grass strip basher

25th May 2005, 15:35

Afternoon all

Has anyone heard back from the BA CitiExpress scheme yet?
Guess by doubling the number of questions they asked us to answer they doubled their own work load!!

GSB

P.S. It is currently 88 degrees in Jerez and sunny...
:E

jb5000

25th May 2005, 15:45

Nope no reply yet!

The scheme has closed to new applicants so I assume we should hear something over the next week or so!

All the best,

James

stevejames53

25th May 2005, 15:55

Grass strip basher:

Havent heard back from BACX yet either - have to wait and see

Troydi:

Cheers for info - sounds like the FTE tests, I'm sure if you search on these forums that the tests would be described if anyone wanted to know what you're up against

Steve

boeingboeingbong

25th May 2005, 15:57

Hi everyone,

my testing is for 31st May at 1.15pm rather than the 9.00am slot so they must be spending a bit of time on us then!

I have also already passed the FTE tests but I believe they would have slightly lower standards than an airline, but only slightly! The PILAPT tests are actually okay as are the written tests, the only ones to watch are the english/maths tests on the computer - too many questions, not enough time.

Thanks to Troydi for asking the question of Thomsonfly!

Good luck everyone

rons22

26th May 2005, 20:27

Flying schools need money so they go to airlines and agree to provide pool of pilots from which an airline will select only few lucky ones. I would think very carefully before signing any contracts.

Taiguin

26th May 2005, 20:56

Thanks for you wisdom rons22.

fastjet2k

26th May 2005, 21:02

Rons22... that's simply not true - naturally there is a financial benefit for the flying schools, however there is also a huge benefit to the airlines. I'm training with 4 people who are on a Thomsonfly approved scheme, one of whom has posted in this thread already. The successful candidates are fully able to go elsewhere on successful completion of training if they so wish (as the airline isn't paying any money for the course) but Thomsonfly will recruit the guys/gals on the approved scheme first over other self sponsored cadets. Please note that the airlines carry out much of the selection process themselves including interviews. They select who THEY want to go on the scheme and recruit them as though they will become pilots for them. Besides, if you're going to train to fly anyway would you not want the backing of an airline and at least a realistic chance of going straight into a jet job at the end of it.

Leave the cynics to their later regrets when they're not flying, good luck to all those who have applied and I look forward to having a beer with you down here in sunny Jerez.

haughtney1

26th May 2005, 21:50

Fastjet..........I dont know what your background is, however your rose coloured view of airlines and their "association" with FTO's is either deluded, or I suspect naive. The simple fact of the matter is this.......any sponsorship deal..relationship....business arrangement, call it what you like, exists as an out and out marketing tool for these FTO's
Sure a few lucky souls who enter into a contract with these FTO's will be cherry picked and added to BIG AIRLINES crew roster if they actually neeeeed people. The VAST majority will be sidelined..have their pockets emptied..(around 30-40% more expensive than other FTO's who dont have an "airline" realtionship) and end up in the queue like plenty of other wannabes. Its that simple..
You state that candidates are able to go elsewhere if they want..so?..whats your point?
If you genuinely live under the impression that as a "screened and approved candidate" you have an inalienable right to a job..think again..airlines change plans on a day to day basis..if they dont need you..then they dont care.
I hope you enjoy the sun....perhaps the fresh air..blue sky..and open spaces expand your mind to allow you to see the big picture.

Nurse more beer please....

:ok: H

fastjet2k

26th May 2005, 22:21

haughtney1, my background is 2 1/2 years in the airline industry and 5 months on the ATPL training as an airline cadet. My view is not rose tinted in any way, it's entirely realistic. At no point have I suggested that anybody who goes through this scheme is guaranteed a job, god I'm not even on the Thomsonfly scheme. However I disagree with the view that this is simply a money spinner for FTE Jerez.

Sure a few lucky souls who enter into a contract with these FTO's will be cherry picked and added to BIG AIRLINES crew roster if they actually neeeeed people. The VAST majority will be sidelined..

I think maybe you're missing the point here... We are talking about an airline scheme, one where few are selected to train under the airline's umbrella and the airline in question on takes on as many as it thinks it will require upon graduation. Why would Thomsonfly go to the effort of organising this scheme, investing money in the selection process (which they do, it's not all done by FTE), give staff numbers and access to the company intranet to successful candidates, send a liasion Captain down to visit and take them out for dinner, request regular reports on their progress etc etc... I don't think any airlines are interested in boosting the finances of FTO's but I do think they're interested in ensuring they can fill the right hand seats of their aircraft in the future.

You say that because this is an airline scheme it is 30-40% more expensive than training with an FTO without such affiliation, i.e. it is an integrated scheme and therefore more costly than the modular route. I'll agree, prices may be more as a result of offering a good chance of a job at the end, the last 2 courses to graduate have all finished with all cadets doing rather well when it came to employment prospects.

Frankly I'm not interested in arguing the point anymore, it's been done to death and, no matter what anybody says, there will always be cynics with a different point of view. I'm glad it's that way as we can have an open debate on here which is what Pprune is all about. However I think it's fair to say that your chances of success are far higher by training under an airline approved scheme than training with nothing at all. Furthermore, with no contract insisting that you have to refrain from joining another airline for 6 months after graduation in case they decide they do want you, it means that while you have the possibility of joining Thomsonfly you can still accept offers from other airlines should they come in in the meantime.

Again I would like to wish everybody applying for this scheme all the very best of luck.

stevejames53

26th May 2005, 22:41

haughtney1,

I understand the point you're making and I agree that these schemes are not without risk (a pretty big risk for most), but in the case of FTE I get the impression that their reputation is more important than getting your money in their pockets.

I'm not so sure it's an out and out marketing tool. Sure there are benefits to having people train with you, but surely in order for the airline to have selected FTE graduates, that must say something about their reputation. If all they cared about was getting the money, then they would probably let everyone who visited their website onto a course!

My only loyalties to FTE are the people I met when doing the selection tests down there (including fastjet2k!) who seemed genuine about only wanting to take my money if they (and I) thought I would pass to a standard they would find satisfactory.

Anyway, just thought I'd give my views - I'm not out to get into arguments over the whole thing - mine is just another opinion of many...

Out of interest are you training somewhere now haughtney1? or a full airline pilot? I'm just curious - I'm not being sarcastic or anything

steve

Taiguin

27th May 2005, 10:08

Hey guys,

I totally agree with Steve and Fastjet2k...sorry haughtney.

A lot of us guys were considering Jerez as an option for training anyhow so it can only be a good thing if we get on the Thomsonfly scheme. If Thomsonfly hadn't advertised this scheme Jerez would have had no trouble filling their courses so how anybody can say it is a marketting scheme i have no idea.

There are no guarantees in the airline business and i , as well as everybody else, is well aware of this. The fact is most of us were going to go to Jerez or pay 60-70000 elsewhere for an integrated course so why shoudln't we apply to this Thomsonfly scheme.

The points Fastjet mentions regarding have access to the intranet and regular liason with the training captain only adds to the safe knowledge that it is a legitamate scheme with NO GUARANTEES just like CTC. Main difference being you don't get a type rating included in 60000.

Fastjet2k...that beer sounds like fun mate....fingers crossed!

Taiguin

fly strong

27th May 2005, 11:07

Does it still cost £200 to to attend phase 3?

stevejames53

27th May 2005, 11:13

"Does it still cost £200 to to attend phase 3?"

I hope not - the email sent out does not say anything about £200. Are you thinking of the CTC scheme? If I remember from what Taiguin's told me, there is a charge, ~£160 for the phase 3 selection day.

Steve

fly strong

27th May 2005, 11:29

I didn't hear anything about £200 either but when looking through the posts from the last time this scheme ran i found this:

''Got an email through yesterday saying I'm though to Phase 3.

However Firstly, they want me to get to Luton by 0900 next Weds........................................................ ..................
............................................................ .....................
Thirdly, they want £200 (two hundered pounds) before I even walk thought the assesment centre doors. The highest I have certainly seen for an assesment day.''

Thank god they've changed that rule then...

haughtney1

27th May 2005, 11:34

Well Im glad you guys have got your eyes wide open..and your heads screwed-on the right way.

Just so you know...my contacts in Jerez...& OAT will tell you different in respect of these "airline" schemes. The amount of time and effort required is minimal for an airline....particularly when you balance it against the cost of training (some would say thats the whole point..with which I dont disagree) however, the schemes by their nature imply that you have a better than average chance of going from zero-to-hero..sadly in the real world it is simply not the case.

Im only pointing these things out too offer a counter view to all the marketing and hype. You are quite right to say airlines dont want to fill an FTO's bank balance...but at the same time they dont care what it costs you, so by default the endorsement of a scheme such as this..or OAT's similar setup gives FTO's a chance to charge pretty much what they like.

Guys at the end of the day its your money.....In my 10 years of aviation (SE piston, ME piston, Turbo-prop, Jet) Ive seen both sides.IMHO..this is a poor return for your money.

Anyway best of luck.....enjoy the beer..and keep smiling:D

stevejames53

27th May 2005, 16:39

fly strong:

they'll have a hard time getting blood out of this stone if they do ask!!!

haughtney1:

thats fair enough, at the end of the day, the airlines are always gonna win as even if us lot decide not to go for it, there will ALWAYS be someone willing to go for it - I just wish it was the other way around: lots of banks trying to loan me money and lots of airlines trying to give me a job for fears of losing my interest!!! never mind, just a pipe dream I spose!

steve

Tallbloke

29th May 2005, 16:51

Who paid for the advertisements? If it is the airlines, fair enough, if it was FTE then obviously FTE believe this scheme to be a marketing tool even if prospective candidates do not.
I get the impression that their reputation is more important than getting your money in their pockets. And there is a strong arguement that a good reputation generates business but if a business does not turn over enough money it will go bust once cash reserves and bank patience are exhausted, no matter what the reputation of a business.
Why are older candidates excluded from self sponsored schemes such as this? This is quite clearly a case of ageism.

Oscar Juliet

30th May 2005, 12:46

I have received an e-mail inviting me to the BA Citiexpress Phase 3. I'm going on 7th June at 9am, is anybody else going then?

Good luck everybody

OJ

Taiguin

30th May 2005, 14:17

Well done OJ!

I've been invited too, on the 8th at 9.00am, but i've got my individual project presentation with the dreaded Gang Zhou!

Hopefully they can fit me in on another day!

Good luck with it!

Taiguin
:ok:

typhoon07

30th May 2005, 14:56

Hi,

Im from Loughborough Uni too and have got a date on the 10th June for BACX...does any1 know what we can expect ie; interview, tests etc?

Cheers

Oscar Juliet

30th May 2005, 16:12

Pleased to hear you both have interviews as well. I've been really lucky with my dates because both of the interviews fall on the only days where I don't have exams!

good luck

OJ

jb5000

30th May 2005, 16:21

Hi all,

Is anyone still waiting for BACX?

I haven't heard yet, starting to think bad thoughts!

All the best,

James

niraj.patel

30th May 2005, 16:47

James,

I haven't heard anything yet either, though I feel that my answers to Stage 2 of the BACX scheme were as good as, if not better than those for Stage 2 of the Thomsonfly Scheme, and yet I got into Stage 3 for Thomsonfly.

I guess we can only wait and see. Maybe the Thomsonfly invitations were sent out in one go, whereas the BACX ones are being sent out one by one as the answers are being read? I can only hope!

Best regards,

Niraj.

Grass strip basher

30th May 2005, 16:54

My invite to stage 3 with CitiExpress arrived well after people started posting that they had got through.... so I was initially having similar thoughts to yourselves.... hang in there as I'm sure it will take FTE time to get all of the e:mails out to the correct people.

Good luck anyway

GSB:)

rons22

30th May 2005, 17:06

Do you know anyone who got ATPL at Jerez? I do, they finished over 4 years ago and are struggling to find any flying jobs, let alone airlines.

I know that soon there will be criticism about my reply, but find ATPL graduates from Jerez and only they will give you the right answers.

If airlines need pilots so badly why they don't invest in sponsorship rather than cheap selection process. That way, you get a real talent not only guy who can afford 100000......

Oscar Juliet

30th May 2005, 17:11

typhoon07

What course are you doing and which year are you in?

Good luck to those who haven't heard yet.

OJ

EK4457

31st May 2005, 15:28

Just a quick question to all of those who applied to the BACX scheme and have heard nothing; did you apply for the summer start or the winter start?

Its just that I seem to remember that you could choose on the top of the phase 1 application form which you would like. I chose the winter start.

It's my guess (or hope) that they are sending out all of the summer start results first as I've heard nothing.

Strange since, like a few of you out there, I feel that my BA answers were much better than my Thomson ones where I got through!

I suppose we'll soon see........

Taiguin

31st May 2005, 15:37

Thats a very good suggestion!

I put down to start in August so that could well explain it. If the same people are assessing these questions, which they are, then i would have thought anybody who got through Thomsonfly would stand a very good chance of getting throught the BACX one.

No news is good news tho.

T ;)

typhoon07

31st May 2005, 16:06

Hi guys
I applied to BACX and stated that I wanted an October start and I heard yesterday from them regarding Stage 3...however, i didnt apply to Thomsonfly...perhaps they are coordinating between the two with people that applied for both schemes and thus causing a delay?!!

good luck

niraj.patel

31st May 2005, 16:41

I hope you're right EK4457, I applied for the later start too and still haven't heard anything.

I actually read both my answers to the Thomsonfly Scheme and the BACX Scheme yesterday, and must say without a doubt that the answers for the BACX are far superior, yes the entire 4 full pages!

Still hanging on to a thread of hope ...

Regards,

Niraj.

Grass strip basher

31st May 2005, 17:35

4 pages!! Are you taking the p*ss??
I thought the instructions were to be 'concise and to the point'

Nevertheless 4 pages is a good effort! Think my brain would have fried if I had written that much!

niraj.patel

31st May 2005, 18:00

The Thomsonfly application was three and a half pages - would have been longer if it didn't say "In no more than 250 words" or "Briefly" on some questions! ;)

But you're right, I should cut down in future! Just too used to writing long essays I guess.

Niraj.

Grass strip basher

31st May 2005, 18:21

Yeah I think it is a uni trait.... I remember dissertations having to be 'at least' x,000 words!

Or maybe its just cos I'm lazy that I didn't write as much ;)

Good luck anyway, hope your Thomson interview goes well

GSB

travnet

31st May 2005, 23:41

well lads how did you get on the people that were on for phase 3 of the thomson fly.com this week mine is on fridasy so looking for any info you may have about the tests and interview cheers
lads

Paul Travers

niraj.patel

1st Jun 2005, 08:08

Travnet,

I don't think people who have already undergone the tests nor Britannia themselves (who it appears are aware of this forum) would thank me for revealing the details of each and every test. However what I can say is that the the post made by Troydi containing the email received from Britannia is entirely correct, all those tests are conducted.

Best of luck,

Niraj.

Aviation kid

2nd Jun 2005, 06:04

Hello All,

Had my Phase 3 selection tests yesterday for Thomsonfly.

I didn't think they were too bad! How did others find it??

Regards A.K

boeingboeingbong

2nd Jun 2005, 13:13

Hello all,

I too had testing this week with Thomson. It seemed to go quite well regarding the tests etc as all you can do is give it your best shot. However, the interview is causing me some concern as its impossible to judge what the person is thinking!

Fingers crossed that everyone is successful - 10 out of 32 in the end isnt bad odds really!

Good luck

Troydi

2nd Jun 2005, 21:45

Hey Guys,

had my selection today - seemed ok, better than I was expecting at any rate. Just keeping my fingers crossed now! 10 out of 32 is not bad odds. Just in case you were interested, about 170 people applied to start with.

:)

Taiguin

3rd Jun 2005, 10:27

It changes everyday, we were told 90 people applied for the Thomsonfly scheme!!

I did have a BACX interview and stuff next week but i've been told that since the assesment is almost identical they have sufficient information to make a decision on me for both airlines. So i'm not going to be going now, which will save me on petrol.

I'll be slightly pieved if i don't get through either now because a second attempt at PILAPTS would have been good. Just interested how did everyone score on the deviation and trax?

Good luck everyone,

Taiguin

boeingboeingbong

3rd Jun 2005, 10:54

Very interesting Taiguin, I was a bit concerned about what they would do regarding applying for both schemes. It does raise the point that surely the top candidates will therefore be sucessful for both the schemes and if you failed the first one you are in slack alley and have no chance of redeeming yourself! Seems a bit unfair, particularly if nerves got the better of you in the interview.

Not so sure I want to divulge my test results at this stage!!

Well today is the last day for testing and the results get sent to Thomson, so fingers crossed they like what they see!!

jb5000

3rd Jun 2005, 11:05

Hi all,

I got through to the BACX selection days....

But... the only week they're doing them is the week of my finals. D'oh!

Better luck next time I suppose.

All the best,

James

topcat450

3rd Jun 2005, 11:11

So it's FTE doing the phase 3 stuff? Not the airline themselves?

Does anyone know when the airlines get involved? and if it's all being done by the same people, any idea why a person might pass for one campany yet fail for the alternative one?

Taiguin

3rd Jun 2005, 11:12

Well done jb5000 for getting through, i had the same problem like you though!! Nevermind there will be other options!

boeingboeing i can understand if you didn't wanna offer your results thats cool. Just wanted to get a feel for how everybody else performed on the test. I've done the CTC test and i think their PILAPT was harder. That could be true or perhaps i've just improved somewhat, had less nerves, and new what to expect.

I was told on the day that they didn't want to be in a situation where both Thomsonfly and BACX had the same 10 people offered to them. Since this would result in one airline or both loosing out to some extent. You can understand it from the point of view but still annoying if i don't get a second attempt if the first goes tits up.

Topcat if people are successfull at this stage they may be invited for an airline interview. Not sure if you applied but we did do a Thomsonfly personality test on the day and the other results speak for themselves. Therefore if Thomsonfly are happy then they may just say lets not interview them. Its all done by FTE up till this inteview tho. Suppose the airlines try and keep costs to a minimum.

Its nice to keep this thread active...

Taiguin

boeingboeingbong

3rd Jun 2005, 11:22

As far as I am aware the airline get the results tonight and then select x amount for interviewing. In an ideal situation they would split all 32 down the middle and recommend each to a different airline for them to decide!!

Taiguin - I have also done the CTC tests, twice in fact! I feel like I have improved somewhat but you can never really tell. My scores for the trax and deviation indicator were good but did not improve with each go, remaining pretty constant! I am a little concerned because I believe what they look for is an improvement.

Great, keep this thread going!!

niraj.patel

3rd Jun 2005, 11:51

Hi guys!

I hope I can clear up this PILAPT thing. To the best of my knowledge there is PILAPT and there is PILAPT Plus. I believe CTC use PILAPT Plus (takes about an hour), whereas other organisations such as FTE use PILAPT. In PILAPT as you all know, there is the Deviation Indicator, Hands, Patterns and Trax. In PILAPT Plus, it is the same, except Concentration and Capacity are added on. You are also in PILAPT Plus required to do more than one test at a time.

From what I was told, Psychologists and the designers of PILAPT say that the tests examine your innate psychomotor abilities, and therefore you cannot improve your scores. I disagree, I think you can improve your scores, but then you might be trying to beat the game rather than demonstrating your natural abilities.

Boeingboeingboeing, you are correct in that they are looking to see an improvement in your scores. So it should not matter that your first score is say 5, as long as you can improve on that on the second and third attempts. What would worry them is if your score remained constantly low or decreased! Apparently a score of 10 on the Deviation Indicator is possible, but I have only reached 9. Trax is much easier I feel, 10 is within most people's reach.

I hope this sheds some more light on PILAPT.

Niraj.

jb5000

3rd Jun 2005, 12:16

I got in the region of 6s and 7s I think for the deviation indicator, and I still passed the CTC aptitude selection.

If I remember right I got a 6, then improved to a 7, then back to 6 again!

Really not sure how this is all collated and marked to be honest!

97robem

3rd Jun 2005, 13:25

hi lads, just to clear up. how many people have actually got through to the 3rd phase of the thomson fly scheme and how many places are actual available for sponsorship with thomson. and finally is there any more stages of application after phase 3 before the candidates are offered a position with thomson

boeingboeingbong

3rd Jun 2005, 13:35

There was 32 selected for stage 3 (four days, four candidates in the morning, 4 in the afternoon). Today being the last day, all the info is passed over to thomson for them to decide who is accepted. It is then at their discretion whether or not they interview (more than likely) or do any additional testing (probably not).

oh, and ten places up for grabs!

Aviation kid

3rd Jun 2005, 15:16

Hello all,

Can't really remember what i scored on the deviation indicator tests. I think it was 7,8,8.

I can definately remember the trax scores though. They were 8,10,10. How could i forget that!!

I thought the biggest problem, was with the time given in order to complete the numeracy, numerical reasoning and verbal reasoning tests! Managed to finish them all but had to guess a couple at the end of the verbal!

Does anyone know weather these tests were designed not to be finished? Or was anyone else pushed for time?

Best of luck to everyone anyway,

AK

Mattd

4th Jun 2005, 00:21

Hey guys!

Nice to see some of you on Friday (3rd), sorry I couldn't hang around, I had to make a mad dash out!

Overall, very impressed. A very relaxed attitude, great people, so much different to CTC.

I agree with Niraj that you can infact improve your PILAPT scores, but like he said....it's just a case of beating the game.

Devation I scored 9, 10, 10 and 9, 10, 10 on Trax (too many computer games ;)). Would be interested to see scores for shapes and others.

Time was a little tight on the tests, managed to have about 5 mins at the end to quickly check through.

How did your interviews go?

Matt

zomerkoning

4th Jun 2005, 10:58

Hye Guys,

Well I also applied to the BA CitiExpress scheme (the october startdate) and also hadn't heard back...

I then got an e-mail from my ISP telling me that "due to technical difficulties some e-mail might not have been delivered"... So I quickly wrote an new e-mail to FTE asking if they received it (sent 2nd of May).. Got an answer the next day:

Dear Guillermo,

Please be informed that we received your Phase 2 questions.

We will contact you shortly.

Kind Regards,
Flight Training Europe

So it looks like they are still going through the answers... at least I hope they are :)

As regards to the PILAPT test, I am convinced that you can increase your scores, it's all about finding an edge in the different tests...

I personally scored 5, 7,7 on the deviation indicator (think it was nerves) and 10,10,10 on Trax (to much time invested in playing Flight sims)...

The numeracy, numerical reasoning and verbal reasoning test are designed to put you under time pressure.. It's not so much that you finish all the questions (it helps though) but that you got the correct answers to the ones you did answer...

From what I heard answering 25 of 35 questions and getting say 22 correct is a way better score than answering all 35 and only getting 20 correct...

Anyways, congrats to all the guys who got on the different schemes.. If I don't get in, well then it's the normal route to Jerez for me in February....

PB4

4th Jun 2005, 12:56

Hi Guys,

Applied to both Thomson and BACX, got interview booked with BACX next wednesday 8th.. rumbled through plane tickets hotel and stuff.. I really hope that I can at least be presented to the airline:O .
My weakness will probably be verbal reasonning as it won't be done in my mother tongue (am french) anyone has any advice on where I can get some tests for this ?

hope to see you there,
Ben

Aviation kid

6th Jun 2005, 21:40

Hello All,

Anyone heard anything yet with regards to Thomson fly cadet scheme?

Doing my head in waiting now(and its only been a couple of days)!!! We should find out sometime this week i think!

AK:ugh:

Mattd

7th Jun 2005, 00:41

Give them a chance, they only finished interviewing on Friday!

I should think middle of this week sometime, Wednesday maybe?

I know they have to get it done quick because of the CitiExpress Scheme interviews starting soon

Matt

Taiguin

7th Jun 2005, 10:02

We were told it could be up too three weeks befor a decision is made!! So i wouldn't sit around waiting else you could be here for a long time. Would be nice to get hear this week though.

I checked out the starting salary with Thomsonfly...its not bad. about 32000 - 33000 when you add the duty and sector pay on top. Still wouldn't be as good as Easyjet scheme in terms of take home money but not bad none the less.

Taiguin

Mattd

7th Jun 2005, 10:48

I'm sure we'll find out soon enough ;)

Thomsonfly pay isn't bad at all, but at least you're not bonded for 7 years!

EK4457

7th Jun 2005, 11:17

Hi guys.

I wouldn't expect a speedy reply - during my interview I was told that we would only hear back once Britannia had decided what they wanted to happen next. Probably some time this week though.

I hope it doesnt take three weeks! I (and probably a few others out there) have to give a months notice for my current job. That means I wouldn't be able to go untill 28th Jul.

Apart from missing out on the first week of the course I'd have to go on a sunbed just to catch up with everyones tan!;)

EK

Taiguin

7th Jun 2005, 13:06

MattD - Thing is you probably would be contracted for a few years with Thomsonfly. You have to enter a bonding agreement with them for your Type Rating that requires you to pay half of it. If you leave prematurely you have to pay the full 20000 or so. Its not seven years though i agree LOL!!

EK4457 - Good point about the job situation actually. I have a job with the NHS but haven't started yet. I don't have to give any notice but i'd rather quite sooner as opposed to later down the line. So hopefully we'll know either way sometime this week.

Fingers crossed for you all,

Taiguin :cool:

97robem

7th Jun 2005, 18:02

Hey guys

How did you all do on your assessment day? what was the feedback like regarding your tests and interviews?

ALSO LET US KNOW HOW YOU DID AS SOON AS YOU FIND OUT!!!!

Aviation kid

7th Jun 2005, 22:06

Hello all,

MattD,

I know they only finished interviewing on Friday. They might have already assessed the results of those who were tested earlier in the week! Leaving only Fridays group to be assessed.

Dont forget, they have to let us know pretty quickly to also sort out the funding with the HSBC. I know this can take between 6-8 weeks when enrolling on the APP with Oxford.

Does anyone know if any assistance or help is provided with respect to sorting the financing out with the bank??

Good luck to everyone anyway!!:ok: :ok:

Be sure to let us know when you all hear

boeingboeingbong

8th Jun 2005, 09:34

Hello nervous people!! I really hope we find out sooner rather than later!

Regarding finance - I dont believe that the airline would help in any way at all. I have already been accepted by FTE for one of their courses (before the thomson/bacx schemes were advertised) and had began to arrange finance through the schools recommended bank - I am sure the school, rather than the airline, would help you by providing contact details etc rather than actively doing anything on your behalf.

Incidentaly, the schools recommended bank has very favourable terms and conditions, interest rates etc compared with some of the other ones mentioned in this forums.

Also, FTE would allow you to start the course without actually having the cash in hand, as long as you have a letter from the bank stating that the money has been authorised in principle. With that in mind im sure there would be no panic for organising the readies!

If anyone knows anythign else regarding finance that would be great!

good luck everyone, and fingers crossed we get word today!!

Aviation kid

8th Jun 2005, 13:24

B B Bong,

Sorry for the confusion about the finance mate, i did mean the school helped sort it out rather than the Airline helped fund it.

I should have worded it better.

Good to hear that FTE will allow you start the course with a confirmation letter from the bank. Thanks for that info, answered my main concern.

Doesn't look like we'll hear today does it??? I have no nails left now, so i've started on my fingers. haha

AK:ok:

Grass strip basher

8th Jun 2005, 15:01

I imagine the FTE crew involved in the interviews for Thomson fly a few weeks ago are probably tied up this week with BACitiexpress interviews all week... my guess would be could be next week before anyone hears anything.

Good luck to everybody though

boeingboeingbong

8th Jun 2005, 15:29

I heard a rumour that ITV's airline show will be renewing their interest in Britannia/Thomsonfly after years with Easyjet. The theme for the new series will be based on big brother/celebrity love island - budding pilots will win the chance to conduct their training with FTE in Jerez, loosers are gauranteed lifetime c-list celebrity status and free passes to nightclubs in the North East of England. This is formaly known as, PHASE 4 selection!
Accurate?

Aviation kid

8th Jun 2005, 21:28

Ill have a bit of that:p ha ha

Aviation kid

9th Jun 2005, 13:23

Anybody heared???:ugh: ??:ugh:

boeingboeingbong

9th Jun 2005, 13:42

Not even a sniff, nothing! I reckon it may be sometime before they tell us considering for Thomson there was 32 candidates - im sure they would spend at least an hour on each persons results before making a decision and even after that I am sure there would be some sort of meeting/discussion between a few people in thomson to come to an agreement. With that in mind I believe they would take well more than a week to sift through all the results/reports etc.

Aviation kid

9th Jun 2005, 22:11

Me thinks it will be tomorrow!!;)

EK4457

I was told by the lady during my interview that they would put the names forward to Thomson fly on the Friday/Monday and from then it was there decision!

I think we are waiting on Thomson Fly's decision not that of FTE.
Therefore, i don't think we'll have to wait for the BAcitiX guys and gals to do their selection.

Oh well! i remain in suspenders, i mean suspense.:O

AK:ok:

Aviation kid

11th Jun 2005, 12:18

Me knows nothing:p

boeingboeingbong

13th Jun 2005, 10:21

Looks like a ten day wait!
Did everyone get an email?

Troydi

13th Jun 2005, 10:34

Yeah, I just got mine. Saw the title "Thomsonfly Pilot Approved Training Scheme" in the inbox... my heart started beating faster... the moment of truth.

HA.

Another 10 days?! Noooo!

Patience is a virtue, right?

Mattd

13th Jun 2005, 11:34

Maybe it's another test? :D

boeingboeingbong

13th Jun 2005, 12:56

What was the deal with the "look forward to seeing you in Jerez soon" bit at the end - I guess FTE are presuming that if not lucky with this scheme we would be heaading there to train anyway!

Yes, this does appear to be a test of character at least, waiting for the first one to crack and then raid Britannia HQ for answers!!!!

niraj.patel

13th Jun 2005, 13:05

Hi everyone!

Anyone got invited to Britannia Phase 4 yet? I've got mine on Thursday in Luton, but I thought FTE said it would take 10 days?

Cheers!

Niraj.

Mattd

13th Jun 2005, 13:23

Yeah, me too!

10 days?!

Oh well! See you guys on Thursday!

Matt

Aviation kid

13th Jun 2005, 13:42

Had the Email, but apart from that, Nothing!!!:ugh:

AK

niraj.patel

13th Jun 2005, 13:51

Which email have you had Aviation Kid? The one from FTE about the 10 days? I think we all got that email but the 10 days seems to be incorrect.

The email invite to Phase 4 is from the domain britanniaairways.com, not flighttrainingeurope.com as they normally are.

I'm sure your invited will be along in a while.

Good luck to everyone!

Niraj.

Mattd

13th Jun 2005, 14:35

Just confirmed a slot for 1300, hope to see some PPruners there!

Best of luck!

niraj.patel

13th Jun 2005, 15:16

Ah, you must be after me Matt, I'm 12:15. See you there!

boeingboeingbong

13th Jun 2005, 15:24

I am booked in for Thursday too, hope to see you all there and certainly in Jerez!! Anyone got any feelers out about the interview? Typical HR you think?

Good luck!!

Aviation kid

13th Jun 2005, 15:24

Hello Niraj.

I had the Email from Flight training europe not the one from Britannia!

I hope you're right, and my Email turns up shortly!

I'm in a bit of a predicament at the moment. Im due to start the APP in July but i'd much rarther start on the Thomson fly cadet scheme instead. The only problem is, i have to send off my deposit very soon, but can't until i hear from T'Fly!!!

I wonder if they'll let those people at phase 4 know on the day weather they're in or not?

Best of luck to everyone!!:ok: :ok:
Best of luck Niraj

AK:ok:

Taiguin

13th Jun 2005, 15:24

Hey guys,

I've been invited to an interview on thursday 16th too in Luton.

Do you think that they have narrowed the 32 down to a smaller number then? Has anyone not got an interview? Just curious.

Anyhow good luck to everyone who attends.

Ian

boeingboeingbong

13th Jun 2005, 15:25

I would expect that they would have cut 32 down to at least 16. Otherwise there wouldnt be much point in holding stage 3!!
With 10 places going the odds are looking good i suppose!!!

Oscar Juliet

13th Jun 2005, 15:26

hey everybody!

I have also been invited for an interview i'll be there for the 1045 slot.

See you all there

OJ

Troydi

13th Jun 2005, 15:31

Interview on Thursday 16th June! Wow. Can't wait, have been biting my nails all morning!

:D :D :D

niraj.patel

13th Jun 2005, 15:35

Aviation Kid,

I signifcantly doubt that they'll let anyone know on the day. I presume they'll be pretty busy on the day what with each interview being 45 mins, and presumably 10 people to see. I don't think they'll be able to fit in more than 10 on one day, so maybe it is spread over two days and you are to be invited for the following day and hence the delay in emailing you.

There's a good chance you haven't had the email yet because people (like me) who have heard are emailing her back discussing times thus eating up her time.

Of course you'd rather be on the Thomsonfly scheme and your priorities should lie with Thomsonfly until exhausted. Maybe you could delay your deposit to OAT? Or if they do not permit that, then start on the August course?

But neither of those may be necessary if you ask for a quick decision in the interview, but be tactful about it, otherwise you'll make it easy for them to say "No, you can go to OAT in that case".

All the best mate, let us all know how you get on.

Best regards,

Niraj.

Aviation kid

13th Jun 2005, 15:42

Niraj,

Cheers mate, hope you're right!

I'll let you know ASAP.

AK

typhoon07

13th Jun 2005, 18:46

Hi Guys

Does anyone know when part 3 of the BACX scheme with FTE if successful will be...any dates?

cheers

Aviation kid

14th Jun 2005, 13:07

Still not heard anything yet!:(

Aviation kid

14th Jun 2005, 14:16

Hello All,

Got a phone call before from Thomson fly. Apparently they have had trouble sending me the Email.

Anyway, i have made it to the last phase too!:ok:

See you guys at Luton on Thursday! (2.30)

Best of luck to all attending.

AK:ok:

niraj.patel

14th Jun 2005, 14:39

Congratulations Aviation Kid! What did I tell you all along?

Have you next been emailed a form to fill in?

There's a couple of questions that are baffling me. In the Flying Experience section:

1. Have you ever travelled by air? If yes please give full details.

2. Have you ever travelled/ worked abroad? If yes please give full details.

Most of us don't have flying experience (other than possibly trial flights) so do we fill in those questions? Because surely they don't apply to those with flying experience since it's obvious that you've travelled by air if you have flying experience! So logic dictates that even those without flying experience must fill those in, but do trial flights and holidays count?

Niraj.

Mattd

14th Jun 2005, 15:12

I know what you mean Niraj, some of those questions are a bit vague and confusing.

1. Have you ever travelled by air? If yes please give full details.

I'm putting holidays and such down; I've only been on a commercial flight a few times....perhaps they're trying to ascertain whether or not people that want to fly commercial have ever stepped on a passenger jet?

niraj.patel

14th Jun 2005, 15:24

HaHa! Obviously everyone's been on a passenger jet, how else would they know that they want to be a pilot!

The question is further complicated by the fact that although it is in the Flying Experience category (of which most of us have none), it's in the Flying Accidents, Incidents and ATC Violations subcategory.

Think I'll just do what you did, put down holidays and busines commutes, though at the risk of sounding like a prat!

Niraj.

Taiguin

14th Jun 2005, 15:24

Guys..LOL

I'm thinking the same thing too!!

I'm just going to put down "commercial flights abroad" on there - too many to list. As for working/travelling abroad, i guess they mean backpacking or inter-railing as travel and working as working!! Thats the way i've interpreted it. Yet more questions but hopefully it will be well worth it in the end!

Got my interview booked for 13.45 so it looks like they start every 45mins for the whole day. I think Niraj's prediction of 10 is probably accurate for the day which would suggest we may well be the final ten and they just want to check were no numpties?!?

Everybody from loughborough...how you getting there?

Ian

Oh and well done AviationKid!!!

I just hope the same happens to my mate stevejames!! Fingers crossed mate!

Ian :ok:

Mattd

14th Jun 2005, 15:27

Funny as it may seem, some people have applied for this scheme having never stepped on a plane before and later on deciding that they hate it!

There are 18 people attending this stage, I asked :ok:

Taiguin

14th Jun 2005, 15:31

Cheers Mattd!

1 in 2...not bad odds!

niraj.patel

14th Jun 2005, 15:34

Thank god Matt and Taugin agree - so it's not just me, those appear very simple questions but were baffling me because of the section in which they appeared! Someone definately needs to rewrite those!

I'm 12:15 on Thursday, and as you know Ian, I'm from Loughborough so I'll be getting a Midland Mainline train from Loughborough to Luton Airport Parkway. Think there's a train every hour.

You got me thinking Ian. I know I said they could interview a maximum of 10 candidates in one day, but assuming a 9 to 5 day with an hours lunch, and a small break in between each interview (no one can sit one interview after another endlessly), they may not even have booked 10. I thought there may be another interviewing day, but no one has posted dates other than Thursday. So if they'll struggle to do 10 a day, I significantly doubt they can do 15 or 16 in one day, unless there are two different interviewing teams. So maybe a lot less than the anticipated 15 or 16 have made it into Phase 4?

Oh well, this is just speculation. Better get back to my questions!

Niraj.

"some people have applied for this scheme having never stepped on a plane before and later on deciding that they hate it"

Matt, for real? I've heard of professional pilots leaving the profession after a few years because they feel they are not suited to the lifestyle, but this is a new one on me!

Mattd

14th Jun 2005, 15:40

Very much so Niraj!

Personally, I think they're crazy....how could you not love flying? :D

I too was trying to figure out how many people there were going to be....I don't know about you guys, but I thought this next stage was supposed to just be a 'Quick hello' or small interview...just to make sure you're not totally crazy (a small amount IS required however :D)

18 people however....maybe the competition is VERY tight?

niraj.patel

14th Jun 2005, 15:51

Hmmm. It would appear that way Matt. 18 does sound a lot for Phase 4. There must be two interviewing days then, it would be a logistical nightmare to interview all 18 on one day.

Steve I hope you're on the second day then! With score like that on PILAPT, I don't know how you can't be!

Aviation kid

14th Jun 2005, 16:39

Hello all,

Can i first say, thanks for the support from all!! appreciated:ok:

I can confirm, there are 18 of us at Luton on Thursday.
I was told they will be running two lots of interviews, simultaneously.

With regards to the questions sent, i haven't had a chance to look at them yet, maybe i should. I've had flying experience, so hopefully they'll be ok.

Anyway, it is starting to look very competetive now. Best of look to all attending.

AK:D

Oscar Juliet

14th Jun 2005, 18:30

hey Taiguin

I'm travelling down by train as well, I will probably catch the 07:50 train.

Hope to see you there

OJ

Taiguin

15th Jun 2005, 09:12

Guys,

For the first of the four questions what do you suggest we do for the attach supporting evidence bit? I've put down examples of work and uni but haven't really got any supporting evidence. What are you guys giving?

Do you think it means if possible attach evidence?

Ian

niraj.patel

15th Jun 2005, 11:21

I wouldn't worry about attaching supporting evidence Ian. I too have used work, Uni etc examples, but have no paper evidence of the same. If necessary, they can contact my work place, Uni etc if they wish to confirm what I have said on the form.

I'm actually surprised how long it is taking to complete! The four essay type questions aren't easy.

I wonder how much weight they will attach to these application forms?

Niraj.

Taiguin

15th Jun 2005, 11:27

I'm not sure about the weighting Niraj. Perhaps it is just a formality and the questions won't be taken that seriously. I'm doing my best on them just in case though.

As you say they aren't easy, i'm in the process of word cutting to fit it in the space. I'm going to handwrite them too instead of writing them in PRINT. I think they prefer that, and they could do some cryptograpyh on them if they wanted!!

I must say i don't envy anyone who has to work and do these question/prepare. Luckily i've finsihed uni for good now.

I need some brain food,

Laters,

Ian

niraj.patel

15th Jun 2005, 11:59

Denise from Britannia said you could either type and then print or handwrite, whichever is easiest for you. I'm typing and printing (obviously other than dating and signing) because that would be easier for me - looks neater and can fit in more words into the boxes saving word cutting time.

Niraj.

Aviation kid

15th Jun 2005, 13:12

Even though it says on the application form to complete in black ink?:confused:

niraj.patel

15th Jun 2005, 13:19

Don't worry, I will print it in black ink, promise not to use colour! Joke!

Well, she did say whatever I preferred, can't argue with that. By all means write it by hand if you feel that is best for you Aviation Kid.

Taiguin

15th Jun 2005, 13:20

Printing is in black ink........lol

I've typed and printed it now...thats how its staying. If denise said its ok then thats fine by me!

Good luck with the forms guys,

Ian :zzz:

niraj.patel

15th Jun 2005, 13:25

Thanks Ian. Personally speaking, if someone offers you a helping hand by saying you can type it and then print it, why on earth would you not take that help by handwriting it! Not only do most of us type faster than we can write, but typing saves precious time deleting words to fit within the boxes.

At the end of the day if that is what Denise says, she can't turn around and argue on the day about it not be handwritten!

Ian, print two copies just in case mate - I have a feeling they are going to browse through them during the interview itself, and thus two copies would be handy. Shows you're thoughtful! :ok:

Taiguin

15th Jun 2005, 16:09

Just out of interest, did you guys apply to the BACX scheme too?

I was told by FTE that i needn't bother to attend the BACX assesment i was scheduled for last week as they wouldn't put me forward for two airlines. I've just got an email from BACX asking me to phone them. When i did they said they understood i had an interview with Thomsonfly tommorow but would i be available to see them next wendesday!?!?!?

I'm not sure if FTE have given all our info to BACX too if you applied there too or not? Or maybe they just asked to see them and decided why should thomsonfly get offered people and not BACX. Let me know if any of you guys undergo similar fate.

Takes the pressure off tommorow a bit now too!

Niraj not a bad idea mate!! I'll print another one off now :)

Ian

Mattd

15th Jun 2005, 16:21

I got this email from CitiExpress:

"Thank you for submitting your answers to the Phase 2 questions. We wish to advise that due to the high standard of the responses from other applicants, we are unable to invite you to Phase 3 of the selection process."

Weird!

Oscar Juliet

15th Jun 2005, 16:23

hey Taiguin

I too have been called for an interview with BA Citiexpress next week. My interview is on Monday.

I guess both Thomsonfly and BA Citiexpress will have invited more to the interview stage than they have places for to compensate for the fact that both airlines are interviewing the same people.

Sorry to hear that Mattd, at least you still have Thomsonfly.

Anyway back to my dreaded design and build project :(

best of luck

OJ

Taiguin

15th Jun 2005, 16:29

Oscar is it definately an interview? Or just further assessement? I didn't really ask and she said she'd email later on and infrom me of the details.

Ian

Oscar Juliet

15th Jun 2005, 16:40

hey mate

She said further assessment but I assumed that meant an interview, so I may be wrong.

OJ

Troydi

15th Jun 2005, 17:24

Phew,

18 people, 10 spaces. Good luck everyone. I got the email on Monday too inviting me to the interview, it's been all go since then trying to get flights back over here - with 2 days notice that isn't cheap, but hopefully it'll be worth it in the end. I didn't realise how cut off I was until I logged back in today and saw all the messages!

Just a quick question, do any of you already have a class 1? I'm assuming the guys who were originally going down to FTE have one. Is there anyone who (like me) hasn't got one yet?

MattD - I also got the same response from Citiexpress. Ho-hum. Just means gotta give it my best shot tomorrow. :\

Back to the grindstone - these questions are taking forever! Maybe I'll see some of you down there? My interview is at half 2.

All the best!

:ok:

Aviation kid

15th Jun 2005, 18:03

Niraj,

Sorry mate, didn't mean to offend!

Thanks for the advice, i've taken it fully onboard.
Infact i've just finished typing it out now.

AK:ok:

niraj.patel

15th Jun 2005, 18:13

No offence taken Aviation Kid. I would take "Please complete all sections in black ink" to mean handwriten too, although it is not expressly clear, and therefore open to interpretation. Therefore I asked her, and she expressly said any will do, whichever is easiest for you.

If it turns out she was wrong (highly unlikely) and that the forms were supposed to be handwritten so that a psychologist can read something into our handwritting, we can all write "The quick brown fox jumped ..." on the top, job done! :E

Troydi, I as well as others I know haven't yet got Class 1s either, though I don't see it as a real hurdle. Apparently Britannia have block booked Class 1 sessions so that those who do not have one can get one.

Mattd

15th Jun 2005, 18:30

Hi guys,

I'm typing out the application form too, much easier for me.

I don't have a Class 1 either, and they don't seem to mind and are happy enough to book us up for one.

Hope too see some of you tomorrow!

Matt

Taiguin

15th Jun 2005, 19:53

Hey Guys,

I have a class one medical. Only reason i did it was to make sure i could be a pilot. If not then i needn't bother wasting my time applying to schemes like this a filling out the numerous application forms...lol. Its not hard to pass though, as long as you aren't a chronic astmatic or cross eyed!!

Best of luck guys tommorow. Fingers crossed us PPruner's get it, would be nice to meet you guys in sunny spain!!

Adios,

Ian

PB4

16th Jun 2005, 07:44

I'll be in MAN for the CitiExpress interviews on Wednesday as well, got told that this was a group interview late morning and a two to one interview early afternoon.. fingers crossed.

Just got class 1 two days ago.. at least that is one successfull step :-)

Anyone else on wednesday ?

PB4

Taiguin

17th Jun 2005, 09:45

So then people....how did everyone find their interview?

I personally though it was alright, nothing difficult, and just a general chit chat. I am however finding it difficult to judge if i did well or not. I think it is just a case of seeing if your face fits to be honest. I think their decision will be based on everything else too if you came across fairly well in the interview.

Keep posting people, will be interesting to hear how you guys got on.

Taiguin :confused:

Troydi

17th Jun 2005, 10:09

Hey Guys,

same here, thought the interview went quite well, but you never can tell with these things! It did seem to be just like a general getting to know you thing, and those are hard to judge.

I was a little disappointed, but not really surprised, to hear that there were so few girls who got to the final interview. Still a male dominated profession really. But, would have been nice to see a couple more girls get this far.

Anyway, they said they'd be back in touch sometime next week. As usual, my mind went blank for the - 'now, do you have any questions for us' part, so I didn't ask if there was a more specific time we'd know. Did anyone ask?

And I totally missed out on seeing anyone! Taiguin, I think you left about 5 minutes before I got there! Oh well - I suppose there'll be more opportunities to meet you all later. Here's to hoping it'll be over a cold beer in sunny Jerez! Fingers crossed guys!

:ok:

Taiguin

17th Jun 2005, 10:31

Hey troydi,

Did you happen to see two guys talking by a car just up from the main entrance!!?!? If so then i think i so you walking in to your interview. If not then must have been someone else lol....

BTW i couldn't believe how many Easyjet planes went past in the 20mins i was waiting in my car!!! They're like flies round **** those things!!

Taiguin

Troydi

17th Jun 2005, 10:46

Heh heh heh,

no I didn't - but I think I was busy reciting their fleet to myself at the time - I don't think I'd have noticed Ronald McDonald if he'd have jumped out in front of me!

I was in a black suit, purple shirt and carrying a beige bag. If that's what you saw, then it was most likely me!

I agree with you on the Easyjet thing - I was sat in the interview and couldn't help but notice them taxiing along!

Mattd

17th Jun 2005, 11:10

Hey Guys,

Pretty much the same boat as you, interview went okay, nothing great...hard to tell how I got on.

Managed to catch sight of Niraj on the way in, good to meet you! :ok:

Was quite happily sitting waiting, when I saw the tail section of an Easyjet saunter past the window....that was quite amusing!

Just another agonising wait until end of next week....

One question for you all, will you continue onto Jerez if you don't get onto this scheme?

Taiguin

17th Jun 2005, 11:29

If i don't get on this or the BACX scheme then i'll probably take the plunge anyhow. Not sure whether that would be too Jerez or Oxford though - would be faily soon though. i.e. this summer if it ever arrives!

boeingboeingbong

17th Jun 2005, 11:35

Hi everyone, yes, I am the same as you lot - felt like it went okay but really difficult to tell! I find it a bit odd that there were two people interviewing us - surely its better for one person to meet everyone and then decide?
I have been accepted for Jerez and am provisionally booked in for August start so see what happens with this, of course, this would be ideal!
I heard a rumour we would know by Tuesday but the interviewer told me 10 days again!
Best of luck

Troydi

17th Jun 2005, 11:39

I would probably take the plunge at some point too - it would all depend on certain things like, if I didn't get through on the CTC scheme, or the Lufthansa one either. Mind you, starting a course like that, with that amount of cash put down, I'd at least like to be in the position where I knew that I was more likely to get through an airline selection.

But, nothing's ever certain. It's all a bit of a risk isn't it?

On the topic of cash - if you don't mind me asking, how are you guys going to fund this?

Aviation kid

17th Jun 2005, 13:47

Taiguin,

Hello mate, i think that was me you saw walking past. I definately saw the two of you by a red Escort, i think it was?

Were you the one in the car or standing by it? Who was the other person?

Anyway, with regards to the interview, i was very happy with the way it went! By seeing what you have all posted, it looks like all our interviews had the same stucture to them.

I was interviewed by Geoff Parke, what a really nice bloke he was.

I asked what the chances of employement were after training, assuming all do well! He told me, if all do well there is a very very good chance all 10 will be employed on either 737 or 757 fleet!!!!!

Anyway, best of luck to all!

AK:ok: AKA. Kevin.:ok: :ok:

Taiguin

17th Jun 2005, 13:54

Hey Ak,

I was outside the car, had just come out of my interview and was talking to one of the guys that was at my phase 3 day at EMA. I think i had Geoff too and he told me also that as Captains are moved onto 737 to get that going, FO's from 757 will be promoted to Captains allowing some of us to take up SO/FO roles on the 75's. I think its awesome but i'd rather have a 737-800 type rating to be fair. Anyhow got to get through it first and get a job!!

We're all so close we can smell the sangria! Had a day off now going to begin research on BACX for Wednesday just incase they ask any tech or company quesitons....

Good look FELLA's!!

Ian

Aviation kid

17th Jun 2005, 14:17

Hope i've made this as i never applied to BACX!:}

Mattd

17th Jun 2005, 18:08

I thought it was odd too, when I asked about the 18 candidates instead of the 10, they gave me the general impression that they didn't know why!

I had Geoff and Sarah as well, went okay, like most have said it's hard to judge!

When asked about continuing onto Jerez if I wasn't sucessful on the scheme, I said I'd have to think about it and there were plenty of other options I'd like to consider first.

We shall have to see!

stevejames53

19th Jun 2005, 19:03

Hi guys,

Good to see you all feeling good about your interviews. Unfortunately, I didn't get through to phase 4 brit or even to phase 3 BACX - I must just be a muppet! (no confirmations on that please!)

Anyway, I don't think that I will be going to Jerez at all - it's about the money (as always).

Anyway, I hope you all get in there and I hope to see you in a few years in a faraway destination in the pilots bar (i'm not even sure if there is such a thing!!) - would even be cool to work with alot of you guys (assuming I'm captain of course ;) )

Seriously though, best of luck to all...

Cheers,

steve

Mattd

19th Jun 2005, 19:06

Hi Steve,

Sorry to hear that, but don't give up....

Have you thought about applying to CTC or Air Atlantique?

Failing that, wait a while, I'm more than certain other schemes will come along soon enough (Flybe in October again maybe?)

Good luck for the future :ok:

Matt

niraj.patel

20th Jun 2005, 08:50

Sorry to hear that Steve. They do say everything happens for a reason, so maybe you are destined for another airline. I remember me, you, David and Chris were the first four at Britannia Phase 3, and from what David said, you did really well on PILAPT, or rather did really well on Deviation Indicator and Trax - no one can be certain of their scores on Hands or Patterns. But I suspect it's not PILAPT that is your problem. Remember you are free to ask questions about your scores and performance by emailing FTE, so that is the first thing I would do, to help see where you could improve.

As Matt says, there will be other schemes, so never give up - it is your dream to fly so somehow make it happen, otherwise in later life you may be pondering "If only ..." like so many do today.

I know Steve you are keen on the Modular route due to cost. What is common knowledge however is that airlines prefer their pilots to have gone through the Integrated route (CTC is considered Integrated even though the CAA does not consider it so). In fact a senior official at BA is quoted as saying "BA do not hire low hour modular pilots". Of course this will not be the opinion of every airline, but you see where they're coming from.

Therefore in my opinion, and I don't know how many here will agree with me on this, but it is better to spend £60,000 on the Integrated route and have a good possibility of a job, rather than spend £40,000 on the Modular route (or whatever the cost of the Modular route is), and have a smaller chance of a job. Simply put, £60,000 is easier to pay back when you have a job as opposed to £40,000 when you don't have one.

Of course we cannot say that by going the Modular route, people will not get jobs, I'm sure most will, but with which airlines, and if you are about to embark on flight training as we all are, would you not want to give yourself the best possible chance of a job at the end?

I'm not trying to influence anyone's opinions here, at the end of the day it will always be your decision Steve, but before you start any other course, it is better to think about every conceivable factor first before possibily regretting it later.

Matt, what do know about the Air Atlantique scheme, and does anybody know anything about the Lufthansa scheme as mentioned by Troydi?

Good luck Steve, and keep in touch,

Niraj.

topcat450

20th Jun 2005, 09:13

What is common knowledge however is that airlines prefer their pilots to have gone through the Integrated route

Niraj - no offence mate but thats pure bo:mad:ox :ok:

In fact a senior official at BA is quoted as saying "BA do not hire low hour modular pilots".

Again - if that was ever said in the first place, and I doubt it was in recent parlance - then that fella too was talking bo:mad:ox

:ok:

Troydi

20th Jun 2005, 09:20

Hi there - a little off topic, but it was asked, and I thought I'd spread a bit of light on the Lufthansa scheme. I started another thread to it here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=176166&highlight=lufthansa)

If, by the end of all the selection procedures, you are selected for Lufthansa, they will train you up. This includes Ground school and flying training. If you get a job with them afterwards, you will have to pay a proportion back. It's a guaranteed job, but you will have to wait a while to start it (and you'll have to keep yourself current). You have to pay all your own living costs, and as the course follows the same style as the college system over there, it takes about 2 years.

The downside - it's all in German. All of it. Which is a little worrying at the moment, because my German doesn't extend to Physics and Aircraft Technical - yet. I'm booked for the selection tests in August, so I have a bit of time to learn the vocab ;) The tests, by all accounts look tricky. We're looking at 1 and a half days of aptitude, maths, hand-eye etc

Thought I'd give you a little bit of info. If you want any more, feel free to PM me, or post on the other thread. I don't really want to hijack this thread!

On that note - I don't know how I'd have gotten this far without this thread! Guys, you're lifesavers!

Troydi

Aviation kid

20th Jun 2005, 09:28

Niraj,

I know you never asked me but, all i know about the Air Atlantique scheme is that you need a PPL to apply! Not sure what Quals you need. Also, i think the training is done in coventry but im not sure.

SJ53,

First mate, sorry to hear about you not getting through. I'm sure there will be plenty more opportunities.

What Niraj says about the intergrated/modular thing is spot on. Regardless of what some people say, intergrated students tend to have some more success, with regards to employement! It is slightly more expensive but worth it in the long run.

However, if modular is your only option due to lack of funds, it is possible to do what is known as a structured modular course(such as CTC). This is where all the training is done at one Flight Training School, such as Stapleford or Oxford and takes the form of intergrated training.

Take a look at the latest employement figures of oxford students (modular and intergrated) on their website www.oxfordaviation.net . You will see that many modular students are still being employed. (if you know all this already, sorry for teaching you to suck eggs!)

Anyway, best of luck for any decisions you make!
And best of luck to all of you waiting to hear from Thom fly and BACX.

AK :ok:

niraj.patel

20th Jun 2005, 09:53

Aviation Kid, sorry mate, the question was intended to be open to all, so thanks for the info.

So too thanks to Troydi for the information, very helpful.

topcat450, it's fine to say bo:mad: ox mate, but to have a reasoned debate you have to expand on that. What is your background - I assume a FO who took a modular course and who got that job first time around? Also what evidence do you have to contradict what I have said? Any employment figures like those Aviation Kid has kindly pointed us to?

I based my opinion on research (including those numerous posts on the Integrated/ Modular debate here on PPRUNE) and talking to airline personnel. Amongst others, I know a BA 744 Captain who has recommended Integrated. In fact the same was even said on Phase 4 of Britannia!

If you read my earlier post again, I didn't say that ALL airlines prefer Integrated, nor did I say that NO modular cadet will ever get a job first time around. I merely said that the chances of getting a job are slightly better with Integrated.

But I like to keep an open mind, so am looking forward to your evidence topcat450, no doubt it will make interesting reading.

Niraj.

topcat450

20th Jun 2005, 10:31

Whilst I could easily expand - to be blunt I genuinly can't be arsed. You failed to quote any sources in your original post and whilst you say you'll keep an open mind - reading between the lines that too is doubtful as you seem to have your mind made up.

The modular route is very difficult to keep track of employment figures because once you've done your CPL - you often move on elsewhere to do the IR and/or ME. The original providers don't have a need to keep track of you and your progress - why would they?

Integrated is different in that most providers claim to have a hotline to the airlines and know recruitment strategies etc. They know what happens to their students as more often that not they'll be applying for jobs whilst still with the provider. It's also in thier best interests to convince you that you have a better chance of a job if you go with them - else why would you pay significantly more to go that route than without with them?

If two recent grads turned up on my doorstep, one modular and one integrated and otherwise identical - they they'd be treated exactly the same. In many instances the modular guys I meet are in better positions as they have more life skills which are gained by generally taking a longer time to get to the same position as a integrated stude. If the integrated grad in anyway thought he was in an advantagous position due to his integrated training then he'd be in for a shock. Once you've got the paper-work sorted, it's transferable life skills which become far more appealing than how long it took you to do your course and who it was with.

Anyway - didn't mean to upset anyone. Don't take it to heart fella. You go on your integrated route. Anyone who thinks thats a little pricey - go on the modular route. You'll all have the same piece of paper at the end of it all. There'll also be enough jobs to go 'round too barring another SARs outbreak or similar. :ok:

Mattd

20th Jun 2005, 10:52

Hey guys,

Just a little about the Air Atlantique 'fugly' scheme.....

You need a PPL, Class 1, and a full UK driving license.

The basic idea is that whilst you are studying for your ATPL, you work for them. Usually things like ops, driving people to and from the airport.

I believe it is the only remaining 'free' (I use the word carefully here) way to get an ATPL, because it requires no financial input from the cadet. But, it's hard hard work, when you're not working for the airline, you're studying for exams/flying(www.flyast.com). To my knowledge all the training is conducted in Coventry, and you are required to relocate there (living expenses paid too). I think they may even pay you a small wage.

Personally, I really like the looks of the scheme and I love the classic aircraft they use, but I'm gonna sit this one out first.....I think they take 2 cadets every 6 months.

Doesn't sound too bad on paper, from what I hear it's very hard work, but worth it in the end.

the flyingenglishman

20th Jun 2005, 13:30

Hiya folks. I've been following the thread over the last few weeks to see how you guys are progressing through the selection. I am starting FTE on the July 25th course, self sponsored and would just like to wish you all the very best of luck with the selection and hope to see you in Jerez. If you want, PM me and i'll be happy to chat.

:ok:

JC.

Taiguin

21st Jun 2005, 08:15

Heya Guys,

Check you snail mail....as i recieved a letter from Britannia this morning. Bringing with it extremely good news as i got on the course!! I'm so excited you wouldn't believe it. I hope you guys got on too!! - GOOD LUCK!

"chupa me la poya", i'm off to spain!!!

Ian

boeingboeingbong

21st Jun 2005, 08:58

Well done Taiguin, well done mate! Excellent news!

Taiguin

21st Jun 2005, 08:59

Hoe did you get on Boeing? Or has the mail not arrived yet!! I'm lucky mine comes really early!

boeingboeingbong

21st Jun 2005, 09:02

No news yet im afraid - i am at work and mail doesnt arrive at home until roughly midday!!! Aaarrrggh! The suspense! Ive got my missus picking it up for me so will let you know how I get on.... mixed feelings at the moment. Again, well done!

Taiguin

21st Jun 2005, 09:03

Well i've got my fingers and toes crossed for you!!

boeingboeingbong

21st Jun 2005, 09:04

Cheers!! Did you interview on Thursday as well? Seems pretty quick decision, you must have impressed them!

Taiguin

21st Jun 2005, 09:08

Yeah i did interview on thursday. They probably decided on friday and sent the letters yesterday. Someone sadi they thought is was tuesday but most of us all heard end of the week.

I've got a BACX interview tommorow too but don't think i'd go since i'd prefer thomsonfly anyow.

boeingboeingbong

21st Jun 2005, 09:09

Do you mean that most people heard by the end of last week or by the end of this week?

Taiguin

21st Jun 2005, 09:15

I along with others were told we'd here by the end of this week. One person said though that they'd heard a rumour that it would be today.

boeingboeingbong

21st Jun 2005, 09:20

I wonder if snail mail will manage to get it up to sunny Scotland by today......?!!

Taiguin

21st Jun 2005, 09:29

Well it made it to the lake district which is almost scotland!! lol

boeingboeingbong

21st Jun 2005, 09:37

Missus just checked the mail and it wasnt even there! Damn it, another day of stressing out!!!

Taiguin

21st Jun 2005, 09:39

Hang on in there mate!!

Oscar Juliet

21st Jun 2005, 09:41

hey everybody

I was actually told that I would hear today but I haven't received a letter. :(

I guess I'm in the same boat as you boeing and we'll have to wait another day.

OJ

Taiguin

21st Jun 2005, 09:42

Blame the Royal Mail!! They're useless!!!

Oscar Juliet

21st Jun 2005, 09:42

I hope your correct!

niraj.patel

21st Jun 2005, 09:51

Congratulations on making it onto the Thomsonfly scheme Taugin.

boeingboeingboeing and Oscar Juliet, I am in the same boat as you, mail has arrived, but nothing from Britannia. A good friend of mine is also in the same position, post arrived but nothing from Britannia.

It is possible that the delay is caused by Royal Mail, but that would make four delays now.

Taugin, did it say in the letter what you are to do next? i.e. Do you need a Class 1 and if so are you in during Britannia's block booking? Do you also have to sign something and send it back, so they know you have accepted their offer and are not proceeding with BACX?

Thanks very much,

Niraj.

Taiguin

21st Jun 2005, 09:55

Hey Niraj,

With regard to the Class 1, they have made a block booking and you have to arrange a time on the 4th July. I've got one already though so won't need to do that.

We also have to be in Jerez on the 21st July and have an induction on that morning at Britannia to meet each other etc. Obviously the course starts on 25th so gives us time to settle in over there before the hard work begins

You have to email someone telling them you're taking the scheme and ring FTE for information on what to do next.

I hope you guys get to know soon, will be nice to put faces to names!

Best of luck,

Ian

boeingboeingbong

21st Jun 2005, 10:32

Aside from Taiguin, has anybody else out there heard any good news? Its all gone very quiet out there......!!!

niraj.patel

21st Jun 2005, 12:42

It has gone very quiet hasn't it BoeingBoeingBoeing. I was hoping for a response from Matt since he is a forum regular. The fact that no one other than Taugin has heard anything either way leads me to think that Britannia have chosen to notify him first (for whatever reason that may be, possibly because he is due in for BACX tomorrow). I think it's doubtful so many letters would go astray, although I wouldn't put anything past Royal Mail.

At this stage I'd like not to think that all those who have been successful have already been notified, and that 9 out of 10 of them are not members of this forum (hence have not posted their successes). Or it is possible that many members of this forum have been successful and are busy sorting things out and have not yet had the chance to post.

They do say that the best things come to those who wait, although Taugin's situation clearly disproves that.

The wait continues ...