Comment
 

'Sorry mate, I'm not rocket Rod, and if you knew my background, you would know that the name makes me want to vomit'

Sunfish, that was a pity; you spoiled your previous erudite post with this.

Rocket Rod
 

Sorry Rotors, do some research on Sunfish and you'll find a proud and enjoyable former life at Ansett Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansett) and then research Rod's involvement in that sad tale......

UTR

WallStreet Journal Blog....
 

Some really interesting posts on here, a situation not dissimilar to the present BA debacle in terms of the position some employee groups are taking. I wonder if the result wil be the same?

and:

Says it better than I could - I think the BA pilots are "living in interesting times!" :suspect:

I don't recall any of us at BA talking about deserving to be paid more. What I object to is being forever told that I deserve to be paid less.

It all comes back to a management whose reward is based partially upon a "margin" and partially upon the success of their own department. This results in problems being shipped sideways with no-one prepared to come up with a solution and risk their departmental bonus. This leaves the "margin", which can then only be met by cost-cutting and who are the easiest targets? Those who take it without a fight.

BA needs fundamental changes to ensure that those in management take the long-term view rather than the current short-termist silo mentality. This will require bold leadership (and a chairman who knows something about airlines who is prepared to recruit a CEO with vision) from someone who is prepared to be ruthless with the middle tiers and the wastage, not scrimp and scrape pitiful savings from the frontline where the (remaining) customers will suffer and where there is nothing left to give.

Same post 2 different threads. and only 17 postings in total.

Must be dull in Uzbekistan.

American Cancels 1,000 More Flights
 

This makes a few delayed and cancelled departures pale into insignificance.

. . and then there's the United B777 problem.

Basil:

Not so. What BA/BAA T5, and United, and AA, and the FAA troubles at Southwest, and the Oasis bankruptcy, the Ryanair share price, the pilot shortage, and other such incidents are telling the world in my opinion, is that management everywhere has cut too deep and is selling their product too cheap.

I am merely a private pilot, but I have no illusions about the workload, decision making skills and responsibility required by heavy jet pilots, and the constant management mantra about labour costs is pure bolleaux.

Raise prices. Add service. Stop transporting Chavs to places they don't have the brains to appreciate at prices that are less than the FULL COST of whats' being provided without cross subsidies. To do otherwise, relying on marginal costing, has always been a recipe for disaster in any and every industry it's been tried.

The Ryanair model of giving the flight away and charging for food and water etc. is not sustainable, and never has been.

Never heard so much rubbish...

Raise prices- do you have any idea how price sensitive the market is? I travel C class LH every week and BA is the most expensive so I don't use them. LH, AF, KLM are lower so thats what I use.

Add service - BA already has the highest service levels in Europe

Stop transporting Chavs to places they don't have the brains to appreciate at prices that are less than the FULL COST of whats' being provided without cross subsidies. - can tell your not in yield management. These pay most of the wage bill. yes revenue generation is hiher in Y class but they are the biggest cash flow.

The Ryanair model of giving the flight away and charging for food and water etc. is not sustainable, and never has been - who else has tried it to show it is not sustainable?

Utter, utter rubbish. Your customers are those who pay a market price for the goods, no one else, don't downgrade them to a level they are not at.

“Raise prices. Add service. Stop transporting Chavs to places they don't have the brains to appreciate at prices that are less than the FULL COST of whats' being provided without cross subsidies. To do otherwise, relying on marginal costing, has always been a recipe for disaster in any and every industry it's been tried”.

Unfortunately none of this is ever going to happen you can’t put the clock back 40 years to 1968, the world has changed and moved on since the golden age of BOAC. Cheap flights with little service are here because there is a market demand. Even this tax greedy Government has so far shied away from hitting the airlines with fuel duty for fear of the political consequences, however much they would like to (yep nowadays even Chav’s have the vote). The alternative would be that flying was only for the rich and those on business. The result would inevitably be a much smaller airline industry. I don’t think many on this forum would be calling for that somehow. I doubt even Willie Walsh and Co would be dumb enough to take the commercial suicide route of only high prices. I’m not advocating everyone follow the Ryan Air model but neither do I believe the BOAC one would work in 2008. Times have changed.

Haven't they got away with just that with motor fuel duty, airport taxes and, at local level, London congestion charging?
All of which hit those with least income. Not very Socialist.

I just received the below email from the BA Exec Club. It seems its now so bad that all even their marketing people can do is to grovel apologetically.

I would have thought that a smarter move would have been not to send a marketing email at all at this time than to send out one admitting and reminding all their regular passengers that they are now a total laughing stock.

However Wee Willie must obviously be feeling mighty grateful to the FAA, American Airlines and currently unfolding events across the pond for allowing his own monumental cock up to now become somewhat less noticeable on a world wide scale.

Here is the BA newsletter speel. A shame though that Wee Willy would not put his own name to it:-

Also note that their great prices to the USA and Canada offer ends on the very day they have sent me the email.:D:ugh:

This is the latest from their website this evening:-

www.britishairways.com/travel/flightops/public/en_gb?p_faqid=3192

Sadly it appears that some people never learn from their past mistakes.:eek:

Galley FM has it Worldwide will now have a phased move accross to T5 after a crisis meeting between BAA, BA and other airlines......

And one would hope that this phased move will only even begin after they reach a stage where there are zero problems with operating the current routes from T5.

If they had moved across on a phased basis from the outset (instead of dumping all BA T1 flights at T5 in one day) then most of the problems experienced could have been satisfactorily addressed and resolved without running so wildly out of control.

Low cost model ?

It is with regret that Oasis Hong Kong Airlines announces that the airline has applied to the Hong Kong Court to appoint a provisional liquidator on 9 April 2008. The Court has appointed Edward Middleton and Patrick Cowley of KPMG as the provisional liquidators, and they have assumed control of the airline with effect from 1400h the same day Hong Kong time.

Our flight operations have been cancelled until further notice. The Provisional Liquidators are liaising with other airlines in order to help customers make alternate travel arrangements as quickly as possible.

As for the "low cost model " and my post about management as a group, cutting too deep on a worldwide basis. Watch what happens when aircraft start leaving big smoking holes on a regular basis. Prices will then rise...and the public will be glad they did.

Easyjet and Ryanair have now been operating for 10 years and so far this has not happened. And this despite them operating short haul routes where there are for more takeoffs and landings per mile travelled and hence more likelihood of problems.

Perhaps they have just been lucky or perhaps, unlike AdamAir, they realise which costs you cannot afford to cut beyond a certain point.

To add just a little humour to the situation, the comment from the Captain three and a half hours into a delay to Brussels due baggage problems at T5 was priceless...

"Same old circus, just a different tent"

Would Alitalia be classed as one of these cheapo budget airlines? Looks like their on skid row just like Oasis. Swissair were of course another famous no frills airline that hit the rocks in 2001. It can happen to any airline business from national carrier to small budget start up.

I must admit however personally I would rather have gonorrhoea then fly with Ryan Air but thats personal choice. I suspect Micheal O' Leary will be around in the airline business long after Wilie Walsh has gone.

To BAEng and to everyone who is posting using the group id 'BAEng', instead of spending every waking minute, in a crew 'restroom', perhaps you'd think about fixing an aircraft or two,:D every now and then, you know, like your supposed to be!! Oh dear, hope I haven't offended anyone!!!:oh::oh::ouch:

You have some serious issues with a company you so obviously dispise. If it's that bad LEAVE, I mean if it really is that bad, why do you stay???:p

raveng, for many in BA it is not as simple as leaving if you don't like it. Pilots are tied in by the seniority systems and to leave would mean the likelihood of starting at the bottom with someone else.

For Engineers I guess they are unlikely to be able to get a similar position for the same money, and often the ones who have been there many years have a pension at BA which if they went elsewhere they won't be able to get the same standard of benefit.

Capvermell.

I's a shame that it never occured to Willie Walsh :yuk:to send a letter of apology to the 20,000 or so customers (or more likely ex-customers) who are now into week three of phoning the lost Baggage helpline. Very friendly people up in the Newcastle call centre, but they can do f**k all really other than apologise and they are getting sick of it.:ugh:

Markrl

I don't know where you go the idea that Swissair were a "no-frills" airline from. They even used to offer a full first class service on their ZRH-LHR routes. :ugh:

I think you were possibly thrown by the OP's failure to use the Roll Eyes/Sarcasm emoticon after their post.

I believe the point they were making was that far more old style full service airlines have gone to the wall than low cost ones so the failure of Oasis doesn't really prove anything in that regard.

Thank you Mr Capvermell you made my point perfectly.

It's a good point.

When BA lost my bag recently things only really moved forward when I spoke to a real live human BA person at the Baggage Services desk at Gatwick. They said that phoning the Newcastle helpline was essentially pointless as they "know nothing" and confirmed my experience that the baggage handling staff in Edinburgh were pretty hopeless (not BA staff, the whole ground operation there has been subcontracted out). The LGW BA person listened to my issue, apologised, clearly knew how the system worked and arranged for my bag to be delivered a couple of days later.

He then pointed out that there was a good chance of bagagge handling at LGW being contracted out as well pretty soon :ugh:

13Alpha

the schambolic baggage situation is made far worse,as has already been stated,by BA management's decision to outsource it's ground handling at many of it's outstations.previously,dedicated,well trained employees worked hard to recover situations after operational distruption,however this resourse has been got rid of,with the now glaring black hole of no back up in times of crisis.the risks of outsourcing are well known and companies that choose to put short term profit ahead of operational integrity eventually suffer the consequences.BA is now suffering from that decision,operationally and importantly,it's brand reputation is once again damaged.both issues pale into insignificance,when compared to the suffering of it's passengers caught up in this fiasco.

Sorry really is the hardest word
 

But not for Willie, he's actually said sorry before....

Nadia Ewida cross debacle -

Extract from a craic 'ing' interview in This is money;

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/investi...4&in_page_id=3

Details all the upsets at BA during WW's tenure, of course excluding the ongoing T5 fiasco.

Having had a great deal of experience with carrying deportees I can assure you that they know every trick in the book to cause a nuisance from shouting abuse at all and sundry to defaecating where they sit. The escorts I have ever met are professional in the extreme, are well trained and most certainly do not over react to what is often extreme provocation.

The article you link to is short on facts and smacks of being written from a position of vivtimhood.

I could write an equally unbalanced piece about Nigerian passengers, their attitude and behaviour and liberal use of stolen credit cards, which would be as much a disservice to all the law abiding pleasant Nigerians I have met as the piece is a disservice to all the crew who have ever operated a flight to Africa.

Your contributions to this site seem to take every opportunity to generate bad feeling and bad publicity for the hand that feeds you. If you (plural) really hate your company that much why not leave so that those of us remaining can continue our efforts to restore some sense of organisation and efficiency in order that we can feel pride again in what was once an iconic airline.

Your posts make that task more difficult.

Maybe it's just coincidence but the last disruptive deportee I carried was as quiet as a mouse as he waited on the jetty then as soon as it was time to board he kicked off, fighting his escorts and screaming that he was going to die. The cynical might think that that was a tried and tested tactic to get themselves off the aircraft and stave off deportation.:hmm:

Willie Wash,
Excellent:ok:


. . and when you try to post on it they want some money. Yup, definitely Nigerian :}:}:}

I dont think BA is particularly at fault over this incident and many airlines carry deportees. I can remember flying to Romania many times with Tarom prior to their EU accession. At times almost half the passengers on board seemed to be there courtesy of HM Immigration service. The point about deportees using every trick in the book is perfectly valid and provides some of the best pre and in flight entertainment in the industry. The ladies always seem to want to take their clothes off prior to being chased by a hapless crowd of Wackenhut security officers around the departure lounge.

WIllie Wash

You plainly know little about immigration issues. there are circumstances where BA is compelled to carry a deportee or an inadmissable person.

You say that BA is generating enough bad publicity for itself. Indeed it is but does that excuse people like yourself indulging in distasteful actions to further exacerbate that situation? I really do not understand your desire to publicly denigrate your own employer other than some perverted desire to damage the company further and jeopardise our already shaky future prospects.

Invesco
 

'BA's biggest shareholder, Invesco, with 11pc, is believed to be meeting the company next week. Invesco declined to comment'Looks like things are hotting up if the big boys/ladies are coming for a chat...... Latte at Waterworld. Let's hope they read PPrune to understand the strenght of feeling. Indeed maybe the letter to the shareholders and city has prompted this 'visit'.Certainly with the drop off in Shareprice and the prospect of losing all their investment, they may call for some big changes. Fingers crossed we just have to put up with another week of that shower.

ww

If you don't like the company, why not leave ?

You sound like a person who would find it diffficult to get a job anywhere.

Why not leave
 

Stormin Normin, your choice of 'pen name' really does speak volumes about your own character. You really are the typial Cro-magnon, all war and no knowledge. Instead of continually attacking my posts why don't you go develop your own enquiring mind, it'll make you a much better manager at BA.

Travel Insurance
 

Seems the travel insurance industry does not like BA/T5 either!

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...-boycott-of-BA

THEY are starting"to leave":eek:

Job for life
 

Anyway Stormin, probably I like you have a 'job for life' at BA. Certainly performance ability applies to neither you, I or even Willie Walsh. Failure even on such a grandscale as the T5 balls up doesn't mean you have to leave, so what the heck, job for life, why would anyone leave..... Well of course that's if the company survives the coming months. Race you to the job centre!

Another abusive post by Willie/BaEngineering.

Stormin is no manager he is a pilot. Accusing any and everyone who disagrees with you of being a manager is tedious to say the least.

I think you will find that if a pilot fails to perform, he will be out walking the streets. No license and no job.

I cannot but echo mMouse.

Do you want this thread closed down? If so, then several of you are going the right way about it, and I'm fed up deleting your little personal insults behind the scenes.

If you have nothing to say constructive, then say nothing, and that applies across ALL the related threads. If all you want to do is score a point, then go play Wii Tennis or something like that; stop wasting the moderators' time on here.

Enough.