Dissuading customers
 

Bronx - sorry, most of the replies are now in response to people like you!!!! How can that be obsessive, you may think it would be rude not to respond.

I think the VAST MAJORITY of BA staff are feeling like me, very dissapointed that a once great company has come to this desperate point. It is not just the T5 problems, look deeper into the organisation, look at the possible pilot strike and the strength of feeling from BALPA their Union. It is without doubt going pearshaped.

Look further, price fixing, record competition commission fine, 777 crash at LHR (though of course yet to understand the reports from AAIB), these are all in the last year. BA is busting at the seams, the pressure from within is immense, what you are seeing is the results of an organisation in trouble.

Of course like all others it would be good to see it turned around, just I'm lost for ideas on that front. Maybe other posters can state their top 5 decisions if they were CEO.

I'll provide mine in due course, it will be my last post.:ugh:

Indeed, but the vast majority of BA staff are trying to put it right, not bitching and moaning on PPruNe.

Hmmm, I wonder......

Has Michael O'Leary ever been seen in public when BAengineering is online?:E

High opinion
 

L337 - there is nothing in that post with any hint of high opinion. All I was stating in response to your statement that you can never find 'proof' was that of course you can, that I'd go have a look myself. How you percieved this to be a reflection on my own self opinion speaks volumes about your own intent and purpose of your posts.

You then go on to suggest that BA is full of moaners and good people like yourself just struggle on with your cando attitude. That BAEng is one of the moaners and idlers. THis despite the fact that I said i would do something positive about the allegations of what is going on at BA.

I personally find the allegations to be divisive and dangerous, they could blow into a full scale industrial issue, especially if it is BA managers spreading the rumours for their own end. Saving bacon springs to mind.

L337 - please contibute something positive instead of becomming fixated with my own postings. If you don;t like what I'm saying then please by all means, hit ignore.

Vast majority
 

L337 - have you actully been into the crewrooms around LHR, they blokes on the floor, who make up the VAST MAJORITY are highly humiliated but laughing their heads of at the major balls up WW and Co presented to the world.

THey did contribute as best they could, they did their bit, it was the big bosses that let them down so badly

1000th post make it a good one
 

A few comments about this thread: where it started, where it has been and where it seems to be going.

Firstly, the unfortunate situation that has arisen at Heathrow, be it the fault of the BAA, BA or their sub-contractors, is certainly “thread worthy”. Many of the comments that have been provided are interesting; as ever much of the conjecture is far more interesting.

However, the thread has now seemingly disintegrated in to a playground spat with abuse and accusations being thrown around like confetti. Certain members seem to be either on a crusade to either attack the companies they purportedly work for or individuals within those companies. It has degraded far enough for qualifications of others to be denigrated and mocked, the spelling of individuals to be ridiculed and abuse seems to have become very much the order of today.

I really don’t see PPRUNE, or indeed this thread, as an appropriate forum for such maltreatment of individuals. Nor do I see such repartee as anyway constructive.

My recommendation, made somewhat sadly, would be to close this thread as it has, at the very least, drifted way off the original intent of the thread, and more probably is doing more harm than good. Little, if anything, will be learned from its continuation.

The Yellow Shark

Nope did not say that at all. I said. Of course I have. I am a pilot with BA. As I said. That is an assumption. Yet proven.

Pilots in crewrooms
 

L337 - In all my years at BA i have never, i repeat never seen a pilot in a crewroom. I very much doubt you are a pilot at BA, I have a great deal of respect for our pilots.

Yellow shark - even if you are not working for BA PR dept, your suggestion to shut down the thread would be fully in synch with their intent on censorship.

If this thread has disintegrated is because a swath of BA managers are on here knocking anyone with a real insight into what is going on, to challenge the spurious accusations about colleagues.

Funny, just saw on the box, advert for ZOOM, low cost, full service, friendly staff. That's main stream TV advert, that is the face of the competition.

No. Sorry will not hit ignore. I find your posts so repulsive that I cannot and will not ignore them.

are you a betting man?

can you prove that? ... no need to answer. Of course you cannot.

Getting personal
 

L337 - Getting a little strong with your postings, indeed I had decided to finish, but you finding the postings to be 'repulsive', it would be ashame not to keep you entertained.

I do find it strange you enjoy repulsive postings, hey each to their own.

Boring
 

L337 - your getting a little tedious now, your on my ignore list. See you. One thing I will bet you, bet you I never reply to another one of your posts. Your on your own mate, till you pick another alias from the BA created profiles.

Bye and enjoy the deskjob.:ok:

Not entertained. Just disappointed that you (apparently) work for BA

I think my point has just proven with the last post (#1006). Whilst one makes a polite attempt to try and diffuse the situation, and either allow a regression to a sensible discussion or closure on the whole matter; again we very quickly fall back in to the playground spat.

As for the comments made directly to me, they are really not worthy of reply.

Again, I think time has unfortunately come for this “off thread” thread.

The Yellow Shark

If (and this is a big IF) you had read my posts properly then you would have seen that I have a great deal of respect for most of the loaders. There have been massive cuts, they work with poor equipment and as always BA doesn't treat them with much respect.
Massive overtime has been required long before T5 to keep the show on the road (BY ALL DEPARTMENTS, even if some of us do not even get paid for it on the day).
I spoke to one loader and he was properly exhausted 3 weeks ago, I can only imagine how he must feel today.
And yes of course I can not PROOF what I say, however where there is smoke......
Been in BA a reasonable while to understand the inner workings...

It's a sad fact that proper management would have sorted this situation before it had arisen. We have a leadership team in place that falls on the 1st hurdle: LEAD.
2nd hurdle: they properly do manage very well, but they manage costs and not people.
So what might look good on paper, might not generate the cost savings they envisioned in their ivory towers...


T5 IS and will be a beautiful home I hope for us in BA. I for one am mightily proud to work for this company.
I have VERY big bones to pick with this 'management' but as it goes for the brand and loyalty towards my company I will always go the extra mile.
We'll see what comes from it, but it's clear some 'managers' have spun the truth they heard from the front line. This information has watered down through the upper echelons to an 'all seems okay' message, hence the current problems.
And there is the nub: COMMUNICATION and RESPECT for eachothers jobs. Empowerment and a feeling of trust that your complains are carried to the right people.
I can only blame poor management for it as recent surveys have shown.

I feel sorry for all that is going on. I hope we can make it up. I shall try

There were a couple of pilots in a shared rest room in T5 earlier today.

We used to have rather sociable crew rooms at BHX, MAN and GLA where flight and cabin crew mingled. Perhaps I missed the bit where engineers and loaders were awarded the monopoly on crew rooms.

Restroom
 

Is that rest room as in American english?

Shaku Zulu - Nice post, if I mistakenly suggested you were knocking the loaders then I retract that comment. Clearly from your latest post my poor assumption was wide of the mark.

Further I am very much aligned to your observations

No rest room as in crewroom as in a lounge where staff can go and sit while on break.

Rightbase - very droll, 747-436 was sharing the 'toilet' with other staff at T5. Toilet as in standard Queens English. No I'm sure he mean't the new way of working and shared crewrooms in T5.

Traditionally crewrooms have been segregated affairs around the airport. My appologies to Handsolo, who I know is a pilot, never been to those stations so don't know the setup.

Going back to skahu Zulu's statement about each group of staff respecting each other will be assisted by the 'New way'. I guess that will be something that needs to bed down.

AS for L337 - he can pop over to our crewroom anyday, evening or night, he will be eternally welcome as he has given us all a 'right good laugh'.

BAEng

Paul Coby quote
 

What utter tosh, interview was 1 week before the opening. Looks like staff weren't familiar nor the processes simple or efficient. Thats the true face of BA PR 'sex it up'. Shame about what happened that it all came back to bite on the arse.

I get it, BAengineering, you're a committee, not just a person. You're all logged on in your crewroom (which we pilots never go in, must be true because you've never seen it) and taking it in turns to post! That's how you can post round the clock...

PS L337 is definately a pilot, he/she has been contributing to debate on this pilots' forum for several years....

Committee contribution
 

Overstress - thanks for wrapping that one up, glad to know L337 is a pilot.

Is a committee opinion any less or more valid. Indeed I think the posting by many simply reinforces the truth behind the 'real opinion' of staff.

Why is the pilots italicised? Are you suggesting a forum not for others, such as engineers. A little eliteist........

The invite stands, Overstress and L337 your very welcome to our crewroom

Anyway we really do have to go right now.

Rest Room Pedantry
 

Thought so (Hoped so!)

My job makes me a pedant, I'm afraid, but I have witnessed a few unnecessary misunderstandings caused by our common languages with eraser-using americans and thong-wearing aussies.

Are you suggesting that employees introduced additional demarcations when they moved terminals ?

If not, then this is purely a management problem / fault.

If you know that you need 1 A, 2 B and 2 C for a job and you allocate 5 A, then it's your fault if the job doesn't get done, not the fault of the As not being B/Cs. That applies if you are a manager scheduling people or an engineer picking components, or tools or whatever.

The fact that the A/B/C employees could perhaps do all the different jobs is irrelevant - you should be scheduling within the known restrictions.

Not exactly. My feelings were that with such a large transition to a new operation taking place ,this element of BA industrial relations may have further compounded the problems of the first week.

I originally thought I'd stay out of this but BAeng has brought me into it. On another thread I seem to remember his bona fides being challenged and response being lacking, could be wrong, in which case apologies.
Seems to me this has turned into a "Isn't WW a !!!!?" thread. Fair enough.
If you guys want to carve each other up, up to you but I think you are losing sight of the fact that all the time you are having a go at each other the true culprits are running away with performance bonuses. Keep it on track, I am only an aspiring PPL and frequent flyer but it is OUR money that keeps you flying, OUR perception of relative merits of airlines and OUR willingness to part with aforesaid cash to who we perceive to be the best deal. If you want to have foghts amongst yourselves I would suggest that it is best carried out in your own airline's forum out of the glare of public or press, if you do not do so I would be minded to think you hold no position in that company or may be a management stooge.
Those of us lurking outside of the PP community, there are more than a few, try to keep as quite as poss, we see some things of which we have little understanding but gives us food for thought, highly value the skills and professionalism of you guys but then read some of this crap and realise that you are no longer demi-gods but the same as the drunken bozo in the boozer we have spent half the night trying to avoid.
Now, can we get back on topic and discuss the problems of T5?:)

BA Staff survey
 

L337 - 07.34 posting, you may be getting a little obsessive about this, maybe you ought to give it a rest? Just a polite comment.

But while your here, and this is not intended to be flammatory, please can you give me your valued opinion with respect to certain elements of the BA staff survey. You have generally criticised my contributions for the reason that they are anti BA, that this is not compatible with being an employee.

As has already been stated in this forum, the VAST MAJORITY (to catch a well used phrase) of BA staff responded by stating, if asked they would not speak highly of thier employer. That my dear Pilot Colleague (has been confirmed) is the real crux of the matter. I unfortunately am not alone.

Reading your posts, we clearly have much in common, i too believe the managerial contribution in this fiasco is the real causal factor. I too believe an 'independent' investigation should be conducted, expediantly, and acted on with respect to the findings.

I am sure what will really happen is BA LT team will use it as another opportunity to slash working conditions further. These BA trolls that appear on here knocking the loading department. Infrequentflyer is absolutely correct, if management does not schedule correctly, right man right job. A little like having an A320 pilot being asked to captain a B777. Its obvious really and cheers for pointing out this simple principle.

Nice post from luoto, yes I can't wait for this weeks BA NEWs, should produce further contribution on here! As for the link you attached, i thought I'd post the front page for others to view, Dawn of a New ERA, maybe it should of read 'End of an ERA', well that's how I feel about what has happened.

Multiple personality disorder on PPrune
 

BA Engineering,

Hi there. By admitting that you are a 'computer permanently logged into PPrune in the engineering section' and you therefore are the comments of whoever happens to be sat on his break at this particular PC, explains a lot!

I was of the opinion before learning this, that you were a someone who definitely needed to get out more (as you have managed to post every 10 minutes for nearly a week). Your variable grammatical powers and wavering opinion also caused me some confusion.

Now we know that you are not a schizophrenic, could I make a suggestion to you at the Engineering crew room?

Could you all get your own log-ins? It would make more sense to the rest of us.....

BAEngineering: To quote you.

Along with you edited, deleted, and inflammatory posts, you are wrong again.

L337
 

L337 - please see if you can rein back in from the lunatic fringe and actually contribute in a professional manner as one would expect from postion as a BA pilot.

Please actually read my post and respond, the question levelled to you about the views of BA Staff, in an independant anonymous survey.

Oh, BBC ramping up again, stating the BBC have recieved so many letters about BA and their indifference to the plight of our customers. That BA are continuing to let down those affected by the luggage issues. Indeed one lady, expecting to get married, you guessed it, the wedding dress is in the luggage!! It's stories like that which clearly illustrate the personal tradgedy behind the chaos.

Multiple personality
 

Right Engine - now your definately a pilot, (or pilots) considering your own posting;

Quote:

---

Would anyone care to share their experiences?

Yours sincerely,

The BA pilot community

---

.

From the BALPA BA dispute thread, you clearly speak for the whole pilot community, or maybe you are the whole pilot community? All 3000 of you.

AS for posting every 10 mins, that is laughable. Did you take all the times and out them into an xcell spreadsheet? Make sure that mystery man from BAA doesn't delete a cell, you know what could happen then, innaccurate information and Terminal disaster. :ugh:

One step forward two steps back
 

Is BA operating a 'one step forward to steps back' or a Dr Doolittle 'Push me Pull me' management philosophy?

Judging by the post on the Guardian ONLINE I think either one would suit. How on earth can BA still be reporting 17,000 bags are still at Heathrow. Despite all the huffing an puffing, the 400 management volunteers, they have still only reduced the 'baggage mountain' (sounds distinctly EU) by just 2000 bags. (using BA's own figures)

Using my rudimentary mathematic skills, over a 7 day period using 400 Management volunteers per day, that works out at 22,400 manhours over the last week. (400 * 8hr day * 7 days)

Taking this further, it looks like it takes some 11.2 hrs (1.5 days) to move each bag. Now that is an prime example of BA efficiency. But then we have to remember these are untrained, undirected personnel, so what can you expect?

Judging by current performance, assuming the same level of 'volunteering' can be afforded by BA (Paying overtime rates) then I expect the bag situation to be resolved in 60 days (17,000 bags * 11.2 * 3200 manhours per day)

Judging by the DR Doolittle approach taken by BA management, it is no wonder we have decided to ship the baggage to Milan for sorting. Especially for an airport which has had a recent history for organised baggage theft, LINK. Why did we contract it out? Because our current performance mean't there was clearly no way to reunite bags anytime within the next 2 months! If it wasn't so serious you may laugh....

Terminal 5 fiasco - pilot opinion
 

From the same Guardian article above this little gem!

.

Come on guys and girls at the front end, this is what we've been telling you since Terminal Thursday. Glad you've finally got on board!!! And that includes you L337.

Luoto - on the ball
 

Luoto - your posting has made the British tabloids, just goes to show the press actually read this site to pick up on interesting themes.

read the article here, well done Luoto on picking up on something newsworthy.

Daily Mirror - A FLYING SHAME

One way to ease the pressure at T5 could be to coach the passengers to Milan and fly outer there.

Rumour about switch 2 will change into 2.1/2.2/2.3/2.4, these will be split by 14 Daze. 2.2/2.3/2.4 will be reconfirmed at T5 minus 7 Daze to allow for any unplanned problems.

Has anybody seen the PR team yet ???

BAEngineering,

An individual asking for the opinions of others on behalf of their community is a bit different to a community acting under the guise of one 'individual'.

Apart from that important fact, I hope you realise that I am in agreement with most of your postings whoever happened to be sat at the computer......
:eek:

BALPA go for the jugular
 

Further update on earlier post, Pilot position detailed further in