You get better service with Ryanair.

I never thought I'd say that.

Perhaps it's not just the w*****s drinking cappuccinos at Waterside but also the 1960's work practices and petty T4 vs T1 arguments that go on amongst the airside living organ donors? BA needs to sort out the whole operation and stop being dictated to by the moronic union reps who still think old shredded wheat head Scargill was JC reincarnated.

capvermell/sunfish
seem to recall post 9/11 low point shares hit the 90's. takes a year or so to really turn round an oil tanker! especially keeping the same skipper on board. with mega mergers, klm, delta etc, are ba really ready to step up to the plate. it looks like chelsea at the moment. front line/players stumbling along while the backroom boys haven't got a clue. and yes united (mufc) deserve team/airline of the year!!!:ok:

ReHeat, speaking of the Chairman of BA:

ReHeat, the Chairman has the final say in who the Directors are, and perhaps more importantly, who the CEO is, and they will hire people who "mirror' their own values and behaviours.

To put it another way, someone who is quite happy Chairing a Company selling a toxic addictive product that kills millions of people each year is going to hire a Board and a CEO that mirrors exactly these same values and behaviours.

That is why you have got WW You wouldn't have him if the Chairman didn't get on with him, and WW wouldn't have accepted the job unless he was happy working for someone with that background. It's as simple as that.

Would you work for the Tobacco industry or for someone strongly associated with that industry? Sorry, I won't, because at some point the nasty rotten personal qualities possessed by someone associated with selling that product are going to show through.

To put it another way, the Chairman ain't no saint, and if you work for him, then you are no saint either, and so on and so on..

The trouble Reheat is that the attitude of the Board and CEO then cascades down the management of the business because managers hire and promote people who mirror their values and behaviour. The arrogance starts at the top, and by all accounts now has cascaded down to all the lower levels of BA management.

Capvermell two points. First, the Guardian reckon that Kirkwood and Noyes have gone straight on gardening leave which would indicate that terms and conditions of their departure have yet to be finalised. If so, the resulting "discussions" could be an interesting management diversion in the months ahead.

Second, I flew back from Lisbon on BA a couple of days ago and we were an hour late leaving Lisbon due to "late arrival of the aircraft incoming into Heathrow from Madrid and also heavy rain at Heathrow."

Since March 27, all BA's 757 fleet are now running the LIS, BCN, MAD, NCE and HEL services out of Terminal 1.

Now, how can you tell me that in 2009 T5 will be perfect, when at the moment BA can't even run a single-fleet operation to five destinations out of one half-empty terminal with any degree of robustness in the schedule? Hint: the answer begins with H and ends in W....

Regards, Bracken.

The T5 problems are transitional I would say, largely caused by opening the Terminal before it was finished or properly tested. The bag store part of the baggage system does sound like a bit of a vastly over ambitious technological black hole that may be wildly unrealistic for the amount of baggage it has to store. One computer glitch and it all goes pair shaped with no apparent manual fallback position. Somebody also needs to challenge the complete obsession with security that makes manual fallback arrangements such as passengers moving their own bags to and from the gates as a last resort prohibited.

This seems to be a failing though of modern airport terminals that are too big and spread out for their own good. At ludicrously sprawling single terminal Palma (Majorca) airport if the computerised baggage season goes U/S in peak season then all check in also has to stop because the distance to the gates (up to 1km) is so ridiculously large that passengers are not thought to be able to cope (also the security scanning arrangements designed for hand luggage probably could not cope). In high season in July and August Palma can be significantly busier in terms of passenger numbers than Gatwick. The total annual passenger throughput of single terminal Palma (two old terminals tacked together by a monstrous new central building now handling all checkin and baggage reclaim and with numerous additional highly remote gates involving very long walks added) is about the same as the projected final capacity of T5. Terminals this big with a single baggage system mean disaster on a much bigger scale when things go wrong. The only reason Palma does not regularly implode is because almost no one changes flights so the consequences of bagage system failure are less disastrous and vast amounts of baggage are not kicking around in the system waiting to move from one flight to the other.

Not so sure about the oil price outlook. However BA is not based on a fast passenger growth model like Ryanair or Easyjet and the world as a whole is getting richer so they ought to be able to sustain current passenger numbers barring a total global economic meltdown. If air travel becomes vastly more expensive in real terms due to oil pice then those who can still afford to travel at all may prefer a quality operator like BA. Ryanair and Easyjet have far more to fear from plans to curb growth in total passenger numbers and airport capacity by western governments for environmental and global warming agenda type reasons. If passenger growth stops and their ticket prices double or treble due to higher oil costs then their business models (with huge commitments to new aircraft deliveries) may implode.

Don't know what they talk about.
I am a PPL and when my destination is more than 7h flight (@160KTS true)I fly as a '.Self Loading Cargo'. I stoped using BA 5-6 years as I don't like to be treated as a 'Loaded Cargo'. No one can harm BA reputation, it is non existent.

I would imagine that Willy would not want these guys outside peeing into the tent so i reckon that Cityflyer and/or the openskies operation might be seeing some new faces. Then theoretically they have been sacked by BA but are still controllable by them.

end of the line
 

It s time to close this thread.... nothing new under the sun, except the new thread about Kirkwood.

We re in the next phase now. It s an illusion to think that ranting here will get WW out. This is now in the hands of the shareholders

I see in the Telegraph that Noyes "supervised staff training". Is this true ? Was there any ?

Directors share dealing reports show that Broughton and Walsh bought shares around 460p in May 2007. What price can be expected in May 2008 ?

I found "Lessons learned from Terminal 5"

http://www.smeweb.com/management/fea...erminal-5.html

interesting and wondered how many really applied.

I happened on a remaindered copy of "Go" by Barbara Cassani last week and was impressed by the story. Key for me was Jane Willacy with proper project planning and an understanding of task dependencies ; a deliberate ploy of getting a team of different people who could complement each other in skills and personalities (not perhaps the clones who have the same psychometric profiles someone mentioned) ; a regular open review of the Opprtunities and Risk list with encouragement to raise worries and report successes..................

Shoey.... Perhaps you should ask the BA Press Office what the terms of departure of these two morons will amount to ?

I'll wager it will be a handsome reward for f***ing up the opening of T5 and making a laughing stock of UK & BA all the way around the world.

Yes Go was a wonderful success story of good management and good quality customer service just like GB Airways but unfortunately in each case they have been swallowed up by the more muscular corporate forces of Easyjet and faced with the inevitable the management of each company decided it was time to ride off in to the sunset with their piles of lovely lucre rather than settle for rather less financially and preserve the high quality product they had created (by selling to a higher quality operator who could not offer them quite as high a price). Unfortunately in business these days size and financial brawn seem to be far more important than offering top quality customer service and a top class product.:sad:

Perhaps Kirkwood and Noyes are leaving ba so that they can turn their undoubted skills to running 'Open Skies'?

OK, OK - I'll get my coat......

OK but that means you mainly avoid BA for long haul where there are better choices available on many routes.

If we are talking short haul then due to your PPL I take it you never travel with Easyjet or Ryanair. If you had ever done so then you would have learned what travelling cattle class by air is really like. The charter operators actually pack you in tighter than EZY or FR do but in most cases their staff act with both professionalism and reasonable courtesy.

It is hard to known which of these two "low cost" carriers is worse. Ryanair is undoubtedly worse on the ground where they treat with arrant contempt and total inhumanity any inmate who doesn't follow the prison camp rules to the precise and frequently unreasonable letter (and in many cases they don't stick to those rules either but pretend they have and you the passenger are at fault). On the other hand Easyjet is significantly worse than Ryanair in the air with their kiss me quick ex Dan Air cabin crew approach where no attempt whatsoever is made to show any culture of professionalism or respect for the passenger - catering choices are also worse than Ryanair. Unless they have changed (after various bad experiences I finally vowed never to travel with them under any circumstances) Easyjet is significantly better than Ryanair on the ground as they will at least transfer passengers who show up a few minutes late to the next available flight free of charge (unlike Ryanair who will always charge you a rebooking fee and show total inhumanity about your already totally ruined day) although like Ryanair they still inflexibly and unreasonably always refuse to board passengers who are late for check-in, even when the flight is running 45 minutes or an hour late and your day is already ruined.

BA may not be Singapore Airlines, or even Virgin, but shorthaul it is most definitely luxury class compared to Lousyjet and LyingAir

Well said TartinTom, T1 vs T4 staff and the atiquated work practices there need to be sorted. As for other posts, alot of these Waterside coffee drinkers have volunteered - YES that's right vounteered to help our customers and try to take a bit of the strain from our colleagues at the coalface -NO OVERTIME. These Waterside coffee drinkers, so easily dismissed by numerous mosts on various threads, haven't always worked behind the scenes. Alot of us have worked in the terminals in previous roles at BA. The them and us bit:mad:hing doesn't help!!

Capvermell, I think you are living in a make believe era of days gone by.

Five years ago you were right and I said so in BA surveys. Today I would quite seriously be more worried about a flight by BA than a flight by EZY or FR. Because I no longer know who is committed to excellence and who is not. I am no supporter of FR or the way they do things, but they do have an amazing reliability record, an amazingly cheap fare structure, and because they largely use small airports in Europe grateful for their business, the baggage handling (if you bother to use it on top of your gratis 10kg cabin allowance) always seems problem free apart from some mid-winter midnight bunfights coming back into BAA's Stansted on a bad weather day.

FR's cabin crew were wobbly for short periods over the last five years, but the current batch seem quite smart and committed. Not perfect, and you have to wonder about how effective some of the youngsters might be in an emergency when you see them receiving training mid-flight on such things as where the galley light switches are when its dark and they need to find something...yes I'll admit I watched that the other night...

EZY's cabin crew today are as almost as good as BA's five years ago. They are smart, authoritative and I believe I would trust them to command me on an emergency evacuation.

The problem with BA today is that it is has these past few weeks been skirting meltdown, worse than any of the other times we remember on WW's watch. Earlier I asked who is Operations Director now? Is this currently a properly regulated airline? WW himself seems to have assumed responsibility for all operations?? How can he do that and the CAA let him?

I see the man on tv and I don't think he can cope with all that he has now taken on, principally because I do not believe he can even get his hands around it. He is winging it and that worries me in an airline.

I have always historically felt Ryanair was worth it despite the erratic service (especially on the ground rather than in the air) because some of the fares were so absurdly cheap. Easyjet never seemed worth it because I only ever book with less than 6 weeks to go and they never have cheap fares that close to departure. Ryanair still have very cheap fares in their regular sale offers as long as you are not below 2 weeks to departure. In January they were even offering cheap fares as long as it was over 1 week to departure. Marrakech for just over £20 each return including taxes as long as you took no hold luggage!

The Easyjet brand is for me totally destroyed by their historically rigid fares structure of never having offers nearer departure and what used to be the total contempt of their cabin crew for anything approaching customer service. Also the fact that no customer service correspondence was ever replied to by Easyjet in Stelios days.

My short haul experiences of BA in recent times have mainly been through Gatwick with the GB franchise operation which used BA colours but was a whole lot better than BA. Sadly this is now subsumed in to Easyjet. I suppose many of the staff have transferred but I bet many of them leave in the longer run due to the "you are just a number" approach to staff at Easyjet compared to the warm family like approach of GB management.

I lost patience with Easyjet when no member of senior management ever responded to a single one of my emails at any time and they also lacked any imagination regarding fare structures for those who travel regulalry on their leisure routes but cannot book 6 or even 3 months ahead. If they have now changed well it is news for me because they destroyed the brand to a point where I would no longer ever travel with them. However that is clearly a very dangerous lesson for BA in the light of recent events.

CAPVERMELL

Not sure how you mean that BA short haul is luxury class..I myself am a regular user of BA short haul at LGW and think the service is terrible compared to EZY, old aircraft, dated interiors, poor customer service and lost baggage issues, recently travelled to TLS and BA lost my bags for 48hrs (I checked in 3 hrs prior) , the aircraft I travelled on had many cabin defects , broken seats and trim etc, and not too clean either, I used EZY 319 on the same route a few weeks later and could not fault them, and will in future..

Bean Counters
 

Just wading into the debate to protect my kith and kin. Not quite sure what the bean counters have got to do with the T5 debacle. On the face of it, the failures seem to be the classic mistake of lack of sufficient user testing to identify potential problems. Or in short, poor planning. I doubt the BA accountants would have turned around to Mr.Kirkwood and said "we don't have enough working capital for detailed testing, guv'". Maybe there was a tight budget, I don't know. Sure, the Bean Counters may say the 'economics don't add up' but ultimately it is senior managers or the Board who have the final say. (Admittedly, the Director of Finance will have a lot of sway, depending on how savvy they are).

As for the dip in the BA share price, given the record high in the oil price, $113 a barrel, and the dent in customer confidence T5 has had, I not surprised it's gone south.

Just two resignations
 

As I said earlier in this thread, this week would be interesting. These two resignations just the first news in the restoration of this once great airline. I suspect by the weekend we'll be getting some more welcomed news. The call for WW's resignation is reaching fever pitch. How long can he brazen it out?

Gordon Brown avoids T5
 

I see that Dear Gordon didn't use BA on his trip today to the United States, completely avoiding T5. Was this as a result of his need to arrive as planned with bags? I suspect so, with the head of goverment avoiding BA that's another great message. Avoid them like the plague!!!

just a thought.

Why is everyone blaming BA? Surely the BAA own and are responsible for the infrastructure of T5?

They admitted it was there fault over the baggage yet because of the media everyone still blames BA for all that went wrong.

Yes BA have to learn from what happened but they are not fully responsible for baggage belts, air bridges, trains, esculators etc that don't work.

Maybe it is time for people to realise BA is restricted by LHR. Check the preformance at LGW it is vastly different. Much better baggage delivery and 83 percent on time!

The government should take some responability for not supplying a premier gateway to our country, instead they worry they will lose the green vote! Industry and tourism musn't be worth anyrhing?

T5 wll be good in time, sadly its been tarnished.

As I said my main short haul BA positive experiences from LGW were the GB Airways routes (Southern Spain, Canaries and Gibraltar) and I suppose that was really a different and superior Airline flying in BA colours.

I must also confess to being bothered by who my fellow passengers are. BA passengers short haul are all business persons and nice middle class people. Easyjet passengers are usually much more largely a contingent of oiks (especially PMI where we have a family apartment in the nicer part of the island).

Have Easyjet got rid of not having an allocated seat yet thus forcing you to scrum at the gate for an overwing exit seat or at least an aisle seat in the forward part of the cabin (hate travelling at the back on any aircraft)if you are tall like me on a full flight. And like I say they always resisted any cheap fares under 2 months to departure even if they were undersold. When I looked in January at some offer fares (leaving in the next few weeks) it did look like they were finally starting to bin that dogma (they are big enough now to need to do that though) on routes that were not selling as well as they would like. But then again those were winter fares.

Do Easyjet yet serve anything other than inedible brown bread hovis sandwiches on their new longer haul routes. Also have they stopped charging £3.50 for wine while BA provide it free. I think not. I agree that BA has brought in catering that is not much better than Easyjet on the food side short haul but at least you don't have to take decisions about whether to pay an exorbitant amount for it or go hungry. Or have they shifted to no included food in steerage like BMI?

I agree it does sound like the main BA operation is going down hill from what you say. Perhaps all the decent BA managers went to Easyjet if they are now improving the quality of their operations. Getting rid of Stelios the Greek could only have improved matters on the quality front.

I and many others had said that heads would fall. They have, but believe me it is not finished yet.

The BALPA open letter will run and run - the large investors will have read it and be knocking at Mr. Walsh's door - going to be a lot more blood yet.

Now Mr Walsh cannot even contemplate a Pilot's strike - please try and find a compromise.

The BACC and Mr Walsh need to sit back and contemplate how they can recover an airline from this; because where they are (and going) is disaster.

'Open Skies' needs to be looked at from an entirely new angle - i.e. compromise. Please do not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

BA can again be the great ICON of the airline world. To be frank it just needs some common sense knocking into both the 'leaderhip team' and the BACC.

If you don't sort it you will all be history.


Regards
Exeng

No he doesn't. The shareholders have the final say who the Directors are if they overstep the mark as they can vote not to re-elect them at the AGM when their terms come to an end. However the Directors do have the final say as to who the Chairman is and can immediately sack the Chairman if he is not performing at any time. Of course the Chairman gets the say about new replacement directors (following resignations etc) between AGMs providing he has the support of the Board.

BAA
 

Further to the point about BAA, was I the only one to notice that, last Friday, when they announced the postponement of the move of the rest of the T4 flights, Radio 4 was asking BMI what BAA were saying, because BAA were refusing to do any interviews.

But it was surely BA's choice to make Heathrow their only major international hub airport and to heavily pull out of Gatwick and never bother with Stansted and/or Luton in the first place, despite their obvious long term potential.

Surely Easyjet's success in running out of three different London airports and BA's decision to shun the growth of any lower cost short haul routes on the basis that their cost base was far too bloated to ever operate efficiently in that sector shows that it is BA who has chosen to make its corporate fate inextricably linked to the state of Heathrow?

BAA has had a cock up at T5 but because it also operates the rest of Heathrow and Stansted and Gatwick too (both of which are going from strength to strength) the incident has not left it irretrievably holed below the waterline. Unless of course recent events persuade the government to let the Competition Commission break up its monopoly control of the majority of UK airport capacity (especially in London).

CAPVERMELL

Agree with you re GB airways, newer aircraft , better service etc on the routes down to spain, as for EZY boarding, this is split into several boarding groups A to C I think, if you check in online your usually group A, and first to board after the priority group have boarded, the overwing exits with leg room have grey seat covers, so head for there. Inflight catering on EZY is not much diff to BA, although you have to pay, at least you dont have to eat a free packet of birdseed as chucked at you by a BA flight attendent as I've experienced,...Sorry for this thread creep, just thought I'd point out the crap BA shorthaul I've experienced at LGW recently.

If the CAA believed WW was trying to run BA single handedly I'm sure they'd take a close interest. As it is WW has done more no more than take on a focal role until Kirkwood and Noyes are replaced. The people who actually do the real work are still in place and I doubt the CAA will worry too much the change. After all, if Noyes and Deadwood had resigned last year they wouldn't have shut the airline down.

Re the appointment of new Directors, this will be a WW man who has the strength to support the business through the changes needed to achieve its longer term business aims. i.e take on the unions and unfavourable work practices that prevent BA from being competative.
The T&C's ruined EI, a National airline that is now regional with "few long haul sectors".. The low cost heathen at DUB we too entranched for EI to recover there mis managed position..

Take this message and apply to BA!!. The low cost boom at LTN, LGW and STN.. these three airports strangle LHR.. So BA can only ever hope to focus on Long Haul... They missed the chance to dominate the regional market by screwing up GO, BCal and Dan's and giving up on LGW... How many atempts do they need... Hardly anyone had heard of FR and Ezy when GO came about... T&C's and greed of the few screwed it for all... :=

The T&C's saw to this... unless these alter.. Then the demise which came to DUB will arrive in LHR...
Same as on carriers with T&C's that drowned them...
SN in BRU
SR in ZRH
AF in CDG
AI in CIA

The CAA will not interfere with the running of BA.
The AOC requirements are for an Accountable Manager (WW) and the Directors of Flt Ops & Engrg. "Operations" is not something the CAA require as mandatory, although they will be aware of the changes and expect BA to furnish them with thier plans going forward.. This has already been done in the annoucement of a new combined role.. The CAA will support WW & BA during this transition...

Hey ~ "If you can't change the people, CHANGE THE PEOPLE !":ugh:

How "punctual" the departures of two yesterday!!, were they on time and allowed to depart accompanied by their "luggage"..
One has to make this joke based on the operational performance since Day 1. Wankers, and one of them should have gone after the TV annoucement..
There are characters on the apprentice who could brief hungry punters and media in a more appropraite way than that...

Have the construction teams and project management firms had anything to say about all this??????????
During my last LRC I hear the trials for the baggage system were only tested with a few hundred empty bags, nothing like peak throughput of a busy week day morning check in.
Also heard was the passenger flows and throughput (signage etc) only tested by staff... The guys from MUC must have some stoires to tell...

What about the BA project team taking two days off before the opening as "all was going to plan".. Is there any truth in this..?

Adjure........ GMT - 6hrs so its rude not too... :ok:

I am not going to contribute any more unless there are new developments because this thread is veering off topic.

The only thing I would add is that management get the union behaviours they deserve in my experience.

[QUOTE][/[For the record, the waste at Waterside does not include the fine Ops staff who try against the odds to keep the show on the road and should be in their own Ops centre not Waterside, without a canteen, gym, hairdressers and Waitrose at the weekend, as the 'office' is technically closed]QUOTE]

Sadly, even Ops suffered the old v new BA Management style. Experienced Ops Managers and staff who actually knew what they were talking about and could resolve complex issues were seen as 'dangerous' and 'a threat' to the new breed of BA Ops Managers who were brought in without any Ops experience. So many good staff were encouraged to leave, shameful. There is a famous incident when BA planners were trying to 'design' Project ICEBERG - the move of some L/H flights from T4 to T1 and an Ops Control staff member was asked to attend a planning meeting towards the end of the process, only for him to flag up basic crass mistakes and assumptions. A phone was made to the new Ops Manager asking the 'awkward' Ops Control staff member not to attend further meetings :E.

This is how the Airline has eroded its experience and T5 sadly is the flagship for failure, but WW will survive :*

BAEngineering/WillieWalsh we can spot you a mile off no matter how many new identities you create.

Perhaps if you picked a location that was not an empty piece of sea off the cost of the Western Isles you might then appear to be a little more credible? Or is your Engineering base for BA an underwater one?

I presume that -6 GMT is a reference to the number of hours you have left before this forum identity is yet again terminated by the moderators?

That would be the dream win-win situation for BALPA! :E

They could withdraw the strike ballot, and watch from the sidelines as Noise and Deadwood performed the same management wizardry on OpenLies that made T5 such an outstanding success.

Twelve months would be my guess, with those two at OpenLies, before BA pulled the plug!

No, BALPA couldn't be that lucky.

I have heard exactly the opposite. The system was tested with more bags than it has yet had to cope with. The "rumour" is that the people who program the software, the BAA, never changed the codes for a "real" day, and the system failed to recognise any bags at all. Despite repeated asking from BA to the BAA, they denied a software problem. Eventually after 3 days the BAA admitted the mistake.

Just one of many many stories circulating.

Armpit,


What an offensive statement. Whilst I agree that there shouldn't be a need for volunteers, the operation should be adequately staffed, many people are working in offices through the day and then volunteering to do late shifts and weekend shifts in the terminals.

Your statement is akin to me saying if you only fly for 900 hours a year you are not working hard enough. Don't make assumptions about other people's roles.

You are merely perpetuating the stereotypes and 'them and us attitudes' that exist within the company.

Not everyone who works at waterside works 9-5 four days a week. Many work 12 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week and more.

And for the record, I'm not management (the word is fast becoming an insult in its own right sadly).

And I used to work on the ramp, so I have been down there. And I drank a hell of a lot more tea and coffee when I worked down there than I have time to now.

Them and us
 

Unbelievable. With everything that BA has to worry about at the moment (Oil, T5, potential strikes) still we see the old them and us culture that has been at BA for so long.
I am ex Waterside staff.
I was one who volunteered in the past to help out in the Terminals (e.g. terror threats) as well as being part of EPIC and OCIC. Does this mean that I didn't have enough work to do?? Nonsense! It meant that I would volunteer to do either early or late shift to assit my COLLEAGUES (yes we are all one team) in the Terminals. If it was an early shift I would start at 6am, and then at 2pm go back to my office where I would often stay until 22:00. If it was a late shift then I would get to the office at 7am and stay on in the terminals until told to go home (and on occasions this was after 2am). It meant that I sometimes worked weekends either volunteering to help in terminals or catching up on my work. Why did I do this? Because the passengers were essential to me. Without them there was no job.
What did I find in the terminals? Well I was there to cover absence once (I gave up a Sunday). Thie minute I started i was asked if I wanted a tea break, I was shadowing 2 other staff members (permanent T4 staff). I declined, and said I would take a half hour in the middle of my shift if it was OK, they told me no, as that was when they would go and move their cars. They created a tea rota whereby one of us was scheduled to be at break while the other 2 worked. This lasted the whole shift, apart from them both needing 90 mins to move their cars! But did I complain, no, I got on with the job of helping our customers. But I loved it, no other job at BA gave me the buzz that helping out those passengers did. And I dealt with my fair share of irate passengers, including one who was flying to their fathers funeral.....and we cancelled his flight! There were aggressive punters, upset even distressed punters and some of them threatened me. But heleping them get away gave me a real pleasure. I received a number of thank you letters from passengers after these shifts.......which I read while drinking my latte at Waterside :oh:

I think it is time (still) for the staff of BA to all remember that, actually, you all have your own jobs to do, but depend upon each and every department to do it. You all need to rally round, remember that first and foremost you should be pleasing your passengers, and make the once great ariline great again.

But what are the chances of that?

SLFF - Thank you for being a professional. Thank you for being there for pax when they need support, without complaints, without a demand for recognition. Pax really do appreciate staff who are happy to help, and no doubt you are happy with pax who try to make your life easy as a human in a difficult job too.

In the past I've always been very vocal about my appreciation of beleaguered staff members, especially when they have some difficult (and sometimes selfish) pax who pretty much make their day miserable.

:ok:

S.

If this is the case the management layers must be useless, as in any other reasonable business this would/should have been eliminated long ago. Possibly explains why director level people have to go.

What is all this "move their cars" stuff ?

A while since I worked at LHR (not for BA) but at that time you could park in the central area car park with a N/side pass after about 18:00 or so.

So if on a late shift it was fairly common to use your break to move the car so you save the staff bus trip at the end of the late shift.