First past the post doesn't mean we have the winner. It just means they reported first.

Those that take the vaccine should be given a passport back to a normal life while those that refuse should not until enough have been vaccinated to ensure heard immunity .

Govt seems to think vaccines should be voluntary
Health Secretary Matt Hancock has confirmed: “We are not proposing to make this compulsory – not least because I think the vast majority of people are going to want to have it.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-51176409

That won't happen - mainly because we live in a free democratic society and not a Socialist Dictatorship no matter how much it appeals to you.

Has any decision been made as to whether the use-it-or-lose-it rule will apply to slots in the UK and EU for the summer 2021 period ? If no decision yet, when are decisions expected ?

IATA Virtual Slot Conference is still going ahead next week I believe. Slot hand back isn't until the end of January so plenty of time yet.

Of course the obvious thing you and others didn't see was the name of the drug. You need to read more.

Right. A drug company who says we didn't seek Govt funding, next they will be saying that the drug will be available to everybody at cost with no profit taken.

Airline travel is pretty much dead in 2021, drug is not fully tested and likely would be 6 months before FDA have approved it and 12 months minimum before it was available widely, I was going to say "freely" available but it is a drug company.

Migrant worker issue has a life cycle of its own and many markets are now in mature phase.

When Govt start making it compulsory they will find that their replacements who ousted them may have a different viewpoint,

You can fly to some Eastern European country to do your covid test cheaper :) It's only 70 eur over here :)
I am sure Turkey with their big medical tourism industry could offer even better deal. Like fly to you holiday destination on TK via Istanbul, get yor covid test done during layover for free :)

It's in the nature of vaccination programmes that a minority of the population who decline to be vaccinated benefit from the fact that the majority are protected. The trick is to ensure that the minority doesn't become a majority.

Few would disagree with travel restrictions being tied to vaccination - but your original "refuse [the unvaccinated] a passport to a normal life" implied something rather more draconian, whether that was your intention or not.

The way to do that would be to make vaccination compulsory, via the back door, by denying access to unvaccinated people to pubs, restaurants, child care - and overseas travel, unless they can provide a certificate confirming their vaccination is current. The latter could be achieved not by barring the unvaccinated from having a passport, but denying them from returning to the UK, without 14 days government provided secure quarantine if they weren't vaccinated. I should add that the government quarantine facilities would be charged for at a commercial rate plus.

How would you deal with those who can not take a vaccine for genuine medical reasons

Is it a case of, to quote Mr Spock -
'logic dictates that the needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few'
just saying.

There are no plans for those in England aged under 50 and without health issues (and not health workers) to be vaccinated on the grounds that the risk of these people dying is very low
These people will of course be able to act as infectious carriers and account for a large section of those who fly, yet denying well over half the population access to a normal life for many months on the grounds that they are unvaccinated may be problematic. Herd immunity is not going to happen for a LONG time. We are going to have to live with this, and accept the idea of potential carriers being in the community... or have many more months of lockdown

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54902909

In the same way as there are people exempt from wearing a mask. And many of those with compromised immune systems would not want to go abroad since they would not be able to get insurance.
There are democracies which won't allow unvaccinated children to attend school.

A "genuine" medical certificate, provided by a bone fide health professions; not the ridiculous self certification that gets those who don't, as well as those who can't wear face coverings out of doing so. If we're to beat this thig, and for that matter measles, mumps and rubella we have to start getting tough and sanctioning those who won't take vaccinations for the greater good of society.

And, by the way, I wouldn't allow any religious exceptions, since religion is a belief, not a condition.

Showing my ignorance here but with President elect Biden not taking office until 20th January where does that leave US policy on border access in the meantime?
If nothing changes in the interim as I would imagine then even if the UK drops it's 14 day quarantine period, the border to North America will remain closed into next year notwithstanding any policy decisions that the incoming POTUS might choose to make.
I appreciate quarantine affects all countries and all visitors but the US is always seen as such an important long-haul market.

Commit - I think you've answered your own question. Trump is the person who controls Covid immigration policy between now and 20-Jan-2021 - the only way around this is some significant turf war around constitutional powers

Let's just keep pumping people full of drugs, Pharmacy companies will be so pleased.

1 million people die every year from Malaria, millions more die because of lack of access to clean water or food.

Honestly have come to the conclusion that you do not believe much at all in what you post & quite obviously pluck random arguments from the air...

...Perhaps much like a third rate polemicist.

Spain just announced that from 23rd Nov ALL arrivals from red zone countries (currently includes uk) will have to show proof of negative test within 72 hours of arrival.

That will certainly not help the tourist trade and travel industry.

And your considered alternative is - - ?

Yeah - what have vaccines ever done for us? Smallpox wasn't that bad...

Reminds me again how long did it take from start to finding something ?

Here it is less than 6 months and media pump it as the panacea with people, even on here there are this demanding everybody be pumped with the "all new vaccine" or you will lose all your rights.

It is perhaps worth remembering, that medical knowledge and technology has advanced considerably.
The structure of DNA was discovered less than 70 years ago. When smallpox was eradicated 40 years ago, DNA sequencing was in its infancy. The first cloned mammal, Dolly the Sheep, was created 24 years ago. The first mRNA antiviral therapy for humans was licenced by the US Food and Drug Administration 22 years ago
I'm not saying that Pfizer's or other vaccines are without side effects. However, just because something in 2020 was solved in a tenth the time it might have taken 40 years ago does not mean it must be treated with the caution accorded to a snake oil salesman, although compulsion of medication is the easiest way to scare an adult population into outright refusal. The financial incentive provided to big pharma for new therapies conditional on sufficient transparency to allow for scientific peer review has led to far greater increases in life expectancy over the last 100 years than many people imagine

One thing is for sure and that is we can’t carry on as we are now for an indefinite period. Rising unemployment, failing companies, a collapsing economy and national debt that is now out of control. It is going to be take a new vaccine or more of the same for years to come. Simple choice.

For those that want to see the aviation industry saved and back to previous levels there is no other option than vaccination.

Already mentioned here but here is the report from Spain about testing that will affect all U.K. travellers.
https://www.janetanscombe.com/news/s...-november.html

Completely agree with David. The analogy I like to make is that of war. WW2 and the Cold War era ushered in an incredible amount of technological change in a short space of time. Calamities and large scale threats are the precursors to the best of humanity's discoveries. They focuse talent, effort and collaboration. You don't always need time on your side to be sure of and test an outcome. That's an old fashioned way of thinking. Agile working methods and smart working with parallel works streams on the go at once works just as well.

Firstly, malaria is not a virus; it is caused by parasites (carried by mosquitoes).
Secondly, malaria is not worldwide spread (because of mosquitoes not being able to survive in any conditions); although there are a few deaths, caused by malaria, in Europe every year, there are imported cases. By the way, and without denying the importance of this disease, one million deaths every year is more than twice the actual number (405,000 in 2018, ref. WHO (2019). World Malaria Report 2019. Switzerland: World Health Organization. pp. xii–xiii, 4–10.). Just to compare, the current pandemic killed 1.3 million persons this year.
Thirdly, i guess - no in fact, I am sure - that a large share of people, in the risky regions, will be quite happy to get the vaccine, when the current experiments are completed.


.

Racedo, another thing to bare in mind is that it's largely going to be the older population (the same people whom we sacrificed our economy, jobs and livelihoods so they can live another 5 to 10 years) who will get the vaccine first. There will be plenty of time for further detailed studies about side effects. They need protection now, they'll get it and in another few years when we're approaching high risk ourselves all will be smoothed out.

I haven't perhaps worded this in the most respectful way possible but I hope my point is well made.

Was just reading about this now...no doubt other EU countries will follow suit soon. I imagine all e passport gates won't be in service then and the immigration officer will ask to see your negative PCR test? Or will the authorities ensure there is more staff available to check everyone's test confirmation...
I have no problem paying for a test, we booked our Spanish trip in January and intend to go as long as our flights are still operating and of course now we need to ensure we get tested no later than 72hrs prior to arrival. I am looking at Boots and Superdrug for testing and hope appointments can be booked in advance to guarantee we can travel...and on top of all this, I hope the devolved governments of our "United Kingdom" ensure borders can be crossed i.e. England/Wales, I know some people from Wales will have to travel into England to get the PCR test.

Nothing like a bit of high horse patronising from an expat looking down on tourists from her own country! :)

Interesting as I'm not able to have the nose swab test as I had surgery when I was younger (and no, it wasn't a nose job :)) therefore, I wonder if there will be an alternative for people like myself.

I did hear of more efficient saliva tests being developed however, I'm not sure where we are with those.

N79

Bahrain, Cambodia, Chile, Iceland, Laos, Qatar, Turks+Caicos and UAE go on the permitted list
Greece, apart from a few islands, goes on the naughty list
Denmark will remain on the very naughty list for 2 more weeks

Nuisance 79- note: Saliva tests have been in use at HKG airport for months. results are available in 4 hours.

I hope the Government are considering a vaccination certificate, as I would have thought, a way to start to allow international travel more freely, would be a vaccination certificate, in the way you need one for Yellow Fever.
I can only see the start of any recovery for concerts, theatres & international travel to be available for those having a vaccine certificate. It's not ideal- but if it enables the opening up of "normal" life then so be it, until such time as better solutions come along.

AFAIK... Pfizer claims only that the vaccine means people do not become ill from Covid - ie do not experience symptoms like difficulty breathing. I haven't seen any claims about whether a person remains significantly infectious or not. If such a person were to remain highly infectious but does not exhibit illness, we still have a potential problem with cross-border flying (ie PCR test on arrival still needed) until large chunks of the vulnerable in society have been vaccinated

Does anyone have good quality info around this with reputable sources ?

This is what Pfizer said 3 days ago:

Can the vaccine prevent severe disease?

The study is designed to detect whether the vaccine can protect against severe Covid-19 disease, Pfizer has said, but data has not yet been made public.

“What we can say is that the vaccine stopped clinic symptomatic infection, but there is uncertainty over asymptomatic infection,” said Hunter. “But we will hopefully learn that as we go forward.”

So at this moment in time you are right. If all pax had the vaccine, at this moment it is uncertain whether that would guarantee they could not transmit the virus to the unprotected.

Well personally I'll be in the queue for this vaccination as soon as it is made available to me. And I hate needles! My main concern is that it won't filter down to my risk group before mid to late 2021 given the distribution logistics involved. And I daren't book international flights prior to this due to the high risk of not being permitted to travel or enter my destination jurisdiction without supporting paperwork. The other compelling consideration is being rendered much less likely to contract a life-threatening virus post-innoculation. Bring it on! I've got £££££'s worth of airline travel vouchers to redeploy and can't wait to use them ...