This was obvious last February.

The pronouncements that wearing mask were of no benefit until someone decided they were.

4 flights in recent weeks on Ryanair and Easyjet, there was no discussion, negotiation or debate. There were not all UK based aircraft so clear there was a consistent policy................ you are wearing your mask. I noticed and got told as did others to make sure mask covered face and nose as FAs checked people everytime they walked up and down when airborne.

One thing I will say is that fresh breath mints needed at end of every flight, mouth tastes grim and masks ok for 2 hrs max and then a new dispoable one needed. Bearing in mind this is summer I would suggest in wet weather it would be worse.

I'm inclined to agree with racedo on this - it sounds as if the TUI crew on this particular flight were lax. Every other flight I've been on since the beginning of July, the cabin crew have been strict about enforcing the "wear a mask or have a very good excuse" rule

I suppose, in defence of the cabin staff, if you're confronted with a bunch of 18 - 30s who have decided they aren't going to comply, when some of whom may well have been inebriated what choices do they have? Probably the only sanction worth threatening them with would be diverting and kicking them off, but financially times are hard for airlines, and it matters not how many country court judgements they might get against the offenders, the extra cost of a diversion is never going to be recovered.

Incidentally, there are no "very good excuses" for not wearing a mask; you knew the rules when you booked and if you feel you can't wear one, then you shouldn't have booked. And similarly, if you have a true medical condition that means you can't wear a mask, then don't fly. Simple!

I feel happy for you. I guess ignorance is bliss. Was you on that flight with a mask under your chin?

When I flew to/from Tenerife in July/August with another operator the rules were strictly enforced. I would like to hear the cabin crew's version of events. Cabin crew are not police personnel and the primary responsibility for correctly wearing a face covering rests with the individual.
Why didn't the lady who was featured on the media this morning getting her moment of fame politely mention to the adjacent passenger that they were not wearing the face covering correctly and/or mention her concerns to the cabin crew?
Did the BBC go on a "fishing expedition" to get these testimonials?

Another point which crossed my mind. From the legal standpoint is non compliance from wearing a face mask inflight a criminal offence under the terms of the ANO? I accept that it will doubtless be against the airlines' terms of conditions of carriage. But if cabin crew asked police to meet aircraft on arrival for non-compliant passenger(s) to be "dealt with" can they/would they be charged for committing an offence?

And likely get told "Why don't you mind your own Farking business and butt out, you miserable old cow, now make me. WTF do you think you are etc etc for duration of flight".

If FA's as we are always told are their for "passenger safety" then clearly some are not doing their jobs based on Govt guidelines.

What realistically can the crew do ? There was an incident at MAN last month when the crew refused to open the door upon arrival until the Police arrived due to an individual refusing to wear a mask. The Police initially refused to attend (Which tells you a lot) and when they did - 40mins after arrival, the crew were warned that they cannot hold passengers as it is classed as false imprisoment.
Crew of the airline have now been advised to simply log the incident and to not challeng the individual.

I witnessed for myself on Saturday the indoor part of an amusement park where - despite very obvious signs at the entrances stating masks were mandatory - comfortably under 10% complied. And it was very busy.

Before anyone asks we were in the cafe section for coffee and cake so didn’t have to mask up, and spent the rest of the time outside.

In relation to aviation the point I’m making is the number of people unwilling to wear masks once they feel they can get away with it will grow and grow.

What a strange quirk of nature that viruses know that they're not allowed to be contagious when people are eating !

Yes, it’s the one good thing to come out of this and it did enable me to have another nice subsidised lunch out today to help out.

As a virologist, the behaviour of some passengers on that TUI flight was unacceptable and compounded by the lack of any sort of monitoring by cabin crew. Posts here talk about the options, what can the cabin crew do etc. It is very simple. People get asked to put on their mask or return to their seats. The cabin crew know or should know who is sitting in which seat, details etc...So ask them once to put the mask on. If they don't comply then that's it. They never fly again. Ever. Then the message will get through their thick skulls.

This is not a 'polite' virus. Tie for us to stop pussy-footing around in my professional opinion.

Land in a country where you have to quarantine for 2 weeks on return from, kick miscreants off plane and ask other airlines to block them flying with them. Maybe expensive but next time people know Airline policy and every other airline stands behind them. Try and get back from Greece when flight banned.

Any chance of getting an ANO so that the Captain can order them to mask up and stay masked, and if they don't comply, divert and offload? Preferably a country with mandatory incoming quarantine and a fine on return to the UK plus blacklisting for further flights?

So many selfish people around these days. They may be low or no risk, but some of us aren't and it's not always obvious who.

Some extreme views on the need for masks here..Your argument could be regarded as flawed though. Wales do not believe that the science supports these muzzles..Now if they were the panacea to this virus, they'd be dying in lumps there, but the infection rates are actually low..
Not everyone buys into face masks especially the chief medical officer for Wales...Rightly or wrongly that opposition is growing especially as we were told months ago that they were useless..
There are always 2 sides to every argument

The problem is we want compliance but are always afraid to enforce it for fear of losing our liberal self-worth. You can't tackle such a serious problem through half-arsed measures.

Frankly, I couldn't care one iota if, a) there are mixed opinions, or b) whether any one individual "buys into" face masks. When you "buy into" travel on public transport you "buy into" the rules and regulations in place at the time, which haven't been put there by Bill Gates, an alien from Mars or those pesky Ruskies, they have been put in place on advise from the WHO, and also by most experts in the field worldwide; and yes, I know you'll be able to point to scientists you say the opposite, just as you can to scientists who don't believe in man made global warming.

If you wish to use such services you obey the rules, and frankly a diversion of a flight, or halting of a bus or train is perfectly reasonable if people refuse to work to the rules. We hear that cabin crew feel unable to enforce instructions handed down by the airline for fear up upsetting people, if that is the case then a couple of burly (unarmed!) sky marshals on flights prone to misbehaviour may be a solution. I don't know if Simon Calder was correct to the letter of the law, but he said this morning that instructions from the aircraft commander must be aboyed under the Air Navigation Order. That being the case the covidiots don't have a leg to stand on.

Personally I'm not convinced about masks. However, if I fly on an airline, or go to an establishment, that require masks to be worn, I will do so. Alternatively I have the choice not fly with said carrier or go to said establishment.

Many here will be aware of considerable speculation that Portugal will be put back onto the quarantine list by the UK later this week. Air fares for Portugal-UK seem to have risen much more than UK-Portugal, with a peak fare for returning to the UK on Friday, just before the expected deadline for return without quarantine, suggesting people are taking this seriously.

This is perhaps unfortunate for airlines which have recently added flights on UK-Portugal routes. There has been discussion above about Sweden going onto the UK's 'permitted' list. If this happens, do people foresee airlines adding capacity to UK-Sweden routes, while possibly dropping a few UK-Portugal rotations ?

Are you forgetting that WHO told us in April that masks should only be worn in clinical settings and our very own Chief Medical Officer told us of evidence that the wearing of masks did more harm than good.

So people should listen to scientists but are perfectly entitled to their own opinions.

I certainly agree that if you are required to wear a mask in a setting such as on board an aircraft then you should shut up and do so.

No I'd not forgotten, but science and scientific opinion evolves, if it didn't then we'd still be sitting here believing the sun rotates the earth, and that you can cure virtually any illness with leaches. People are entitled to their own opinions for sure, but whether that extends to peddling lies at demos in Berlin and London, and making patently false claims about vaccination, 5G causing Covid-19 and the like and the like I really am not so sure. I'm not suggesting anyone posting here is doing any of that, you can be sure. Nobody here is that stupid / devious.

Up to a point.

Is this the same Sweden that that couldn't give a monkeys for the lock-down,it's funny old game!

I am anti mask and feel it is way way too late. However when flying it was a requirement and I wore one, despite not believing in the voodoo science behind it. I changed masks when got on second leg of journey as found it just not good enough for 2nd leg.

They went their own way and have less deaths per 1 million people than UK.

Scotland have now imposed a quarantine (14-day) on arrivals from Greece.

Indeed they have,the question though arises that if the infection rate is 33 per 100000 in West Dumbartonshire,Glasgow 20.7 per 100000 which is a lot more than Greece,so therefore it must follow that everyone in these area's must quarantine for 14 days.I believe though someone sneezed on the LGZA to EGPF that has triggered this new round of insanity.

Scotland has put Greece on the Q list as a result of track and trace, not just the pure numbers. The system identified returning travellers from Greece as a major source of covid. On the beeb this morning.

Given the reputation for partying that some resorts on some of the islands has I don't imagine this is too surprising. Look at the news story last week - The Man. U football captain. Didn't see too much social distancing going on in the footage that was shown on the news.

Only just but neither country has anything to shout about.

The son of a friend (in his mid 30s) went on holiday to Malta with his partner. They returned to 14 days quarantine and that lasted three days before they went off on another holiday to Cornwall. No doubt if he had received a call on his mobile checking he was maintaining quarantine he would have lied and I doubt the location of a mobile can be traced without a warrant.

So is this a rant against the irresponsibility of his generation? No, although the fact that many are irresponsible in this context is well established, it's to illustrate that 14 days quarantine simply doesn't achieve its aim and should be replaced by a test upon arrival back in UK and another test, say, five days later. If both are negative normal life could be resumed. There would certainly be much more likelihood of adherence to 5 days quarantine than 14 days.

Think Wales have done the right thing with just doing the red zone for Zante,with islands like the Canaries ,Madeira ,they can be done separately from their mainland areas
if Boris and others had done this through the summer, the travel industry might have been in a better state and more people would not have had this quarantine,which it seems is being ignored by many .

Expressflight:
The idea is great but I imagine the travelling public will have to pay for these tests in order to avoid the 14 day quarantine period. They will also have to isolate for the 5 days between the tests.
Based on your example (& no doubt countless others like it) can you see people paying for two tests where potentially the cost is greater than the airline ticket?
Or will they just chance it?

https://travelweekly.co.uk/articles/...e-warns-tanzer
The ABTA chief Execs comments on the practicalities of airport testing aren't overly helpful (I know he is being realistic but you would think he might be on the side of promoting the industry) and it appears the travel industry might have a long winter ahead.

commit aviation

Would they have to pay for the tests? It's obviously in the Government's power not to charge and if not charging produces a better outcome in terms of reducing the spread of infection that should be the way ahead.

Ideally the government would not charge, but testing would be mandatory, no ifs, no buts, no excuses, no exceptions. However watching "Hancock's Half Hour" this morning, and reading between the lines, I don't actually believe there is sufficient lab capacity in the UK's "world beating" (not) testing system to accommodate all the tests. Germany has found this to be the case and is dropping the testing on arrival from what I read last week.

No doubt they could get some form of bulk discount and has already been noted, there are testing stations at many UK airports. However, there is always a cost at some stage - if not direct at source (the customer) then we all pay through general taxation in some form.
So here's a thought - why not add another £50 or so to APD. People who want to fly pay without the rest of the population picking up the tab. Limited means to avoid it and so likely to get better take up of the test.

I think it would be an understatement to say that it would not be popular idea with the airlines or airports who rightly see APD as a deterrent to flying and is already one of the highest in the world.

Sweden has already been mentioned as a candidate for the UK to permit travel. I'm wondering if Bulgaria and Serbia might also be under consideration as well

Serbia I can see could be in with a shot,but looking at the trend I doubt Bulgaria would be removed from the quarantine list until the end of this month, which essentially is the end of the summer season on the Black Sea.

Police have been knocking on the doors of hundreds of travellers who have failed to comply with quarantine rules

You have to ask just how stupid some of these people are. There would appear to have been multiple attempts to contact them which have come up dry, and only then to the police come knocking. Surely if you were minded to ride your luck, once you'd had a couple of calls and presumably not responded you'd think your luck had probably run out, and start quarantining as you should have been in the first place.

I don't agree this quarantine thing is a particularly smart policy, but again, it's the law, not optional and if the law is flouted, to a point where the police have to become involved then a fine should be the logical result - in every instance. It's hardly fair on those who do comply with the rules for those that can't be bothered to get away with a slapped wrist and suffer no penalty.