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This summer I flew STN-KIR-LTN with FR. Kerry airport!! Once all the passengers had deposited their baggage, most of the visible staff joined us for a farewell drink before boarding!
Airports come in all shapes and sizes. |
Well Stobart like to talk up plans for the airport. I has a witness when a senior staff member was only too delighted to speak of first the runway resurfacing - involving closing it ( after the permanent biz jet goes to Southend for the duration ).
Pax flights still said to start next year . And they claimed EZY are wanting in due to the same freebie deal they gave them at Southend. What I did find a bit ity was the idea they were ' speaking to another Irish airline '. Given if I'm right in thinking Are Lingus still have some involvement - it's clearly not them. But to insinuate FR . I may have posted before about this but it's no fantasy. Said manager ( not naming ) was senior ' going by the I'd tag and seemed keen. Maybe just maybe a limited summer only 2 route Charter for EZY eventually . But not before Stobart can prove they can fill a tiny prop. Finally . Rail operation ? Is this an office or a rail link too if so to where ?. Nearest would be former stub of Waverley route south somewhere be Longtown ?. |
If you look at the plans, well over half of the Terminal building is actually office accommodation for Stobart Rail.
Again, looking at the planned terminal and apron size, there would have to be considerable changes made to accommodate anything bigger than the proposed ATR's. Clearly plans can change, but these were only submitted in June this year. |
Current planning permission is
15. Passenger and/or cargo fixed wing aircraft movements shall be limited to the following types of aircraft: Jetstream 41; DHC-8Q400; ATR 42; ATR 72; and RJ146 (or aircraft of equivalent characteristics in terms of size, weight, carrying capacity, noise, and other polluting emissions). |
Originally Posted by bad bear
(Post 9965008)
I feel sure the terminal will need more than the 90 car parking spaces that show on the above plan if it is to have enough passengers to make it viable, is there a long term car park somewhere? How many spaces do other small airports have ( Teeside?)
Well Stobart like to talk up plans for the airport. I has a witness when a senior staff member was only too delighted to speak of first the runway resurfacing - involving closing it ( after the permanent biz jet goes to Southend for the duration ). Pax flights still said to start next year . And they claimed EZY are wanting in due to the same freebie deal they gave them at Southend. What I did find a bit ity was the idea they were ' speaking to another Irish airline '. Given if I'm right in thinking Are Lingus still have some involvement - it's clearly not them. But to insinuate FR . I may have posted before about this but it's no fantasy. Said manager ( not naming ) was senior ' going by the I'd tag and seemed keen. Maybe just maybe a limited summer only 2 route Charter for EZY eventually . But not before Stobart can prove they can fill a tiny prop. Finally . Rail operation ? Is this an office or a rail link too if so to where ?. Nearest would be former stub of Waverley route south somewhere be Longtown ?. The original plan many moons ago was for a lengthened runway, and brand new, decent sized terminal. Back then there was talk of attracting Ryanair. Given the right price and incentives, I'm sure they might consider it, but it's highly unlikely. Even if they wanted to, the proposed terminal is far too small to accommodate an A319/737 worth of passengers. |
im not sure B737 or Airbus 320s can use a runway thats 30 m wide, are there plans to widen the runway when it is re-laid in time for the summer schedule in 4 months time?
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A little more on proposed ops. Good luck to them I say.
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/n...lights-in-2018 |
Nothing new in there that hasn't been said before.
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Except that they're saying it again, rather than let it lie dormant.
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Yes - they're been very consistent with their message, it's only the year that changes!
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At least one 737BBJ has been in on the current runway, don't know about anything bigger.
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Runway renovation starts tomorrow. Closed to fixed wing aircraft until May?
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At last the ball is starting to roll, Well done :ok:
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Runway 7/25 to become 6/24.
Helicopter operations will be accepted |
As a reminder, here are the drawings of the new combined passenger terminal and offices for Stobart Rail, from the planning documents dated January 2017: site plan (PDF),
terminal floor plan (PDF), links to all documents. Access is from the new roundabout on the A689. The passenger terminal appears to be tiny: two "gates" but very little space landside or airside for more than a half full ATR. As someone with a background in construction and architecture, it's disappointing that the terminal building is not going to be much more than cheap steel shed, but I suppose it will have to start small, and hopefully be able to grow into the adjacent offices as space is needed. |
What they're building is still on the hopeful side of realistic. The regional flying ship has long since sailed, and we're seeing that all over Europe. If this airport can succeed then the following airports would be small but thriving bases of commercial passenger operations:
Blackpool, Cambridge, Gloucester, Manston, Oxford, Plymouth, Sheffield, Shoreham, Swansea. They would have flights to Amsterdam, Belfast and / or Dublin, and London or Edinburgh (depending on distance). That they aren't is a little bit sad :-( But the fact there are so many reasons this can't be the case means Carlisle has a struggle ahead. |
Where is the information published on the closure? Can’t find it on the AIS notam website?
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Airport Facebook page
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Originally Posted by GrahamK
(Post 9972963)
Runway 7/25 to become 6/24.
Helicopter operations will be accepted Especially as there is a business onsite that provided flight training and pleasure flights , year round. The ' cross runway ' was to remain in use . The I assume at the point they meet when that work is done that's when closure might be needed. So this is a change again. |
Originally Posted by 01475;9973030"
What they're building is still on the hopeful side of realistic. The regional flying ship has long since sailed, and we're seeing that all over Europe." "Carlisle has a struggle ahead."
Surely, their experience at SEN has at least taught them that simply investing in airport infrastructure is no guarantee of success. |
I guess if someone else is funding almost £5m of the work for you its hard not to do it? It also makes that part of the project much more saleable
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Good point bad bear..makes you wonder what else the government is wasting our money on?
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Hang on...has Facebook gazumped the CAA?? Possibly..surely if an airfield is closing for a few months it should be notamed to all?? Still can’t find it...
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Enter December 1 (or later) in the NOTAM search facility and the relevant NOTAMs will appear
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Isn't that one of the major problems of the NOTAM system - no advance warning, only on the day. Too bad if you'd been planning a trip to Carlisle for months.
Also no mention on the airport's website which is pretty pathetic. |
Presume airport is still open for the residents? What about the resident Falcon?
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When talking with the management a few months back .
He said that is going to be going down to Southend for the Duration. |
Thanks EGPO, when he first got it, it was at DTVA for a very short period.
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ILS
Will the runways after completion of the works/realignment be fitted with ILS system.
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Originally Posted by 01475
(Post 9973030)
Blackpool, Cambridge, Gloucester, Manston, Oxford, Plymouth, Sheffield, Shoreham, Swansea.
They would have flights to Amsterdam, Belfast and / or Dublin, and London or Edinburgh (depending on distance). |
That's very true indeed. But our politicians are crippled by the paralysis of only wanting to do something that won't cause ill effects to anyone anywhere while ignoring the greater ill effects of doing nothing, which I include as one of the many reasons it can't happen (also APD).
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Based on reading the planning application, it seems that a terminal under 500sq/m in size doesn't require planning permission and consultation. The new terminal is 486 sq/m.
They're building it as small as possible to force it through the planning system as easily as possible. If flights from Carlisle are a success, then they'll expand as needed, and should stand a better chance of getting planning permission, as it would technically be an extension rather than a new build facility. So far everything is being done as cheaply, and with as much government money as possible. Very little risk to Stobart if it fails. |
If they can get the timetable for the flights right, and the right prices then am sure things could work out for them. After all the train from Carlisle to London Euston takes anywhere between 3hr 22mins and 4hr 31mins.
So good luck to it all..... |
Runway Closure
Great business sense by not doing the runway in stages, a lot of Carlisle training aircraft hangared up in Blackpool, a mere 100mile trip to fly. How much will that hurt the home based Flying schools.
1 x GA aircraft probably generates between 6 and 10k in revenue to the airport in landing fees and fuel, even thou most obtain fuel from Kirkbride due to it being considerably cheaper. Pax flights without a subsidy would bankrupt the airport, like it did to Blackpool. Low cost airlines would pay no landing or navigation charges, and would want paying for each passenger that got off at Carlisle. Larger aircraft would require extra fire, security cover etc, that means greater costs for the airport operator. Freight would be the only real option. |
1 x GA aircraft probably generates between 6 and 10k in revenue to the airport in landing fees and fuel Larger aircraft would require extra fire, security cover etc, that means greater costs for the airport operator |
Originally Posted by fjencl
(Post 9975400)
If they can get the timetable for the flights right, and the right prices then am sure things could work out for them. After all the train from Carlisle to London Euston takes anywhere between 3hr 22mins and 4hr 31mins.
So good luck to it all..... And how long, and how much is it going to cost, to travel from downtown Carlisle to CAX, perhaps an absolute minimum 30 minute check-in, a 1hr 20min sector CAX/SEN, deboarding then an average 10-15 walk & wait for a train, and then a 1hr (ish) train journey in to a London terminus? I'd suggest that a 3hr 22min train journey would be quicker and probably cheaper! |
downtown Carlisle |
Airportplanner - extra runways at LHR will cost a fortune and the airlines will have to pay. They aren't going to be interested in 50 pax to Carlisle or Dundee. It'll be every hour on the hour to JFK.
same as yr local multiplex 20 screens and everyone thinks you'll get all sorts of arty movies... but what you get is 15 screens showing Batman v. Thor v. Paddington starting every 15 minutes..... |
Perhaps Stobart are thinking about moving some freight between Carlisle & Southend using ATR42 to help the flights get off the ground....?
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Time will tell ....it's the waiting game
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