Carlisle.
 

Can't find the old thread..but does anyone know what is going on here?

Promise of airport,runway,terminal and schedule flight expansion by Stobarts..but can't find any concrete(pun..sorry) news?

Flights supposed to start now,soon,or when?

Nothing is happening, they wanted the airport just to build the warehouse that is now up and running.

didnt they have a keen interest in starting routes. for example belfast was listed as a potential through the route development scheme

So is there any pressure from the local authorities against Stobarts? Thought the Westmorland press would have picked this up!!!
Most sensible people thought a thriving airport would never happen,but I seem to remember most were shot down by the blinkered!
What ever happened to the local farmers who saw through the smoke screen?

It's thanks to these local farmers that we don't have a new runway. The original planning consent stated that Stobart must improve the runway first before work could start on their warehouse.

Now thanks to their constant winging, Stobart have been able to construct their warehouse without spending a penny on the airport. At least under the original scheme we would have gained some improved infrastructure that would actually be capable of handling flights if anyone ever decided they wanted to give it a shot.

TBF why would anyone give it a shot, what routes could possibly be worth running from CAX?

Absolutely no need for Carlisle on a commercial basis.

FlyBE to Heathrow?

FlyBE are backing a 3rd runway at heathrow, and in support yesterday published the following proposed route map that they could operate if the runway was approved:

https://i1.wp.com/www.thecourier.co....20%2C372&ssl=1

If Flybe are going to enter fantasy land, surely they could propose nonstop flights between Heathrow and bothe Orkney and Shetland as well

Most of them. .. maybe; probably. But Doncaster and Norwich???

Hi guys..must be time for an update?

I had on very...good authority that the airport would close for a few months for runway/airfield improvements? What happened?? Have they started?
Schedules..can't start until those improvements begin?
City Jet at Southend...any hope for EGNC??

What do the locals(farmers). Actually think will happen...or have Stobarts done the dirty (probably expected) and 'will eventually have their day?

Not as silly as it sounds to some. BE are building up a network at LCY with some destinations that many would not have predicted, and have applied to use Northolt to do similar on a smaller scale, but that was rejected.

There is also the liklihood that with increased expense, congestion, overcrowding and hassle of surface transport, domestic air travel will be increasing attractive and convenient, especially for those not going city centre to city centre and/or those connecting to/from overseas destinations.

With a third rwy at Heathrow, slots are allocated 50% to new carriers and 50% to incumbents. The secondary slot market that keeps carriers out of Heathrow diappears. Beyond that, much would depend on Heathrow airport charges and whether some routes could be operated on a PSO basis or supported by the Regional Airport Connectivity Fund (there'll also be no EU interference by then).

Also, BE has exactly the right sized aircraft to operate these thinner domestic routes. The BE map shows none of trunk routes operated by BA (and previously also operated by BD). Maybe it is leaving those routes to U2 with its larger aircraft, as U2 also supports Heathrow expansion and has stated that it would have a base there. Could see stiff competition for BE from BA and/or U2 on the Jersey route, but not on the others.

As for Norwich, perhaps not so daft as it may sound at first glance, surface connections between there and Heathrow are difficult. Surprised not see Newquay on the list considering the word "potential" was used on the map.

As the word "potential"is used on the map, maybe all those routes won't materialise. Some of the airports may have closed, if not, a Heathrow link would be a vital lifeline.

Nevertheless, like the look of it, hope to live long enough........

Logistics Manager


Who said they only wanted the airport to build a big warehouse?:)

So they want to build a big warehouse and some smaller warehouses? :ok:

Oh dear..as we have all suspected..the future is a massive logistics/transport area..the people of Carlisle and the area have been lead up the garden path..DTV I fear will follow suit?

Amazed the local press garnet picked up on this?

In the old days Air Anglia operated a PA31 on the NWI/LHR route before Air UK operated a Shed360 HUY/NWI/LHR, i.e, a split load on a Shed.

NWI/AMS has survived all these years because of the, then, poor roads and then no LHR service but since then Norwich has a by-pass, the A11 has been significantly improved, to west London isn't so difficult, many a year since I drove it and I don't have a map to hand but it was down the A11/M11 turning right at Duxford, it might have been the A505 that takes one across country to then connect with the A1(M) or continue going across country to connect with M1 somewhere around Luton, it was quite a pleasant drive as drives go.

I think you must have been away a long time! Halfway round the M25 isn't in my "pleasant" book.
I'm sure the reason NWI-AMS has survived all these years is 90% to do with the Southern North Sea gas industry, not the difficulty of road connections to Heathrow.

M1 to M4 is not much more than a stone's throw!

You worked for Air UK and/or KLM UK did you?

You obviously dong drive around the M25 very often I can assure you it's NOT a comfortable drive, EVERY day and I mean EVERY day there is major congestion between the M25/M4 junction upto the M25/M1 junction regardless of the day but obviously even more so during peak times.

The M1 to M4 is a stones throw you say well I would like to see you throw a stone between those two junctions it's not that close especially when your travelling about 20 to 30 miles an hour in congested traffic.

A pathetic statement on your behalf and I suggest you drive that route again which you found so comfortable as it must have been a long time since you last did.

Well I have driven that route a number of times over the last month and have to say that, while it is not the best drive in the world it is not the horror show it used to be. Certainly, there are patches of 40 and 50mph, as mandated by the overhead gantries. Once the M40 junction is passed it gets better. My journey is around 70 miles and is generally done in 80 to 90 minutes,
The worst thing about that trip is not the patches of slow going but the muppets who think they can drive but in reality couldn't drive a donkey cart!

I thought the motorway that went past Carlisle was the M6? :ok:

The thread was hijacked a couple of months ago and now it appears to be about how you get between any pair of UK airports by motorway. :O

Does anybody really see flights from CAX starting in the next 5 years? I don't.

Also university students from Asia that go to the UEA, it carries 130,000 pax plus a year and continues to grow.

UEA has what, 4500 students? Say 10% of them are from Asia and they all fly via AMS to NWI. That's 450 people flying in and out of NWI 6 times a year or 2700 passengers a year. And that's assuming they all fly in and out each term which is highly unlikely.

OK, a contribution to a route and it all helps, but not a real game changer, imho.

(UEA student 1975-1978)

As does Carlisle (the thread starter can't have searched too hard...)
http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airpo...rlisle-12.html
Might one suggest the Mods combine both threads please:ok:

Carlisle-2
 

Carlisle has just been referred to over on the DTVA thread as an example of an airport embarking on expansion, with references to Stobart's Southend example too.

Just thought I'd throw out there if anyone can think of an example of a successful commercial airport with a military danger area at 7nm final for the main runway direction, with fast jets doing high energy manoeuvring both inside and outside the danger area? Add to that the fact that there are no plans for Carlisle to get radar.

We've recently had the example of Flybe pulling out of Dundee because of the perceived hazards of operating CAT from a non-radar Class G airport with lots of light aircraft around. But at least the conflicts there were all with aircraft doing no more than 100 knots. At Carlisle most of them are doing 400+.

I head Newcastle we're going to do the radar?

Anyway..don't think the military have any fast jets now! More problems than that for the airport successfully delivering on Stobarts promises?

Can anyone tell me size of it's catchment area, and how many millions of prospective pax it encapsulates?

About 5,000,000 sheep and 100,000 leople in the local Carlisle area

And the tourist attraction of the Lake district.

Not all of which is massively hugely closer to Carlisle than Manchester is...

This tourist attraction card has been mentioned before.Majority are day trips on coaches from local area or tourists passing through to Scotland.Next highest are walkers..so how much can you get in those overhead ATR lockers..walking sticks,boots,dogs,you get my drift.Arrive at airport and you are still 30 plus miles from the start of the real lakes..car hire anyone...not yet in place.Bus service..not yet in place...train...nope.
The answer is to attract new inbound tourism..over to the tourist board.Business passengers just does not exist..history has proven that.

5,000,000 sheep eh?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUINoVAL-_A

No chance. No reliable cover over Carlisle below 3000ft from that radar and Stobarts wouldn't pay for the controllers.
It only takes one
Indeed. But no-one's mentioning this one.

Running an airfield that has no passengers will always be substantially cheaper to run than an airfield used by just a few dozen passengers a day. So what would be the income generated by those passengers?

Factor in fire cover and the extra staff needed to operate a passenger operation and the bills start to rise.

With just a few passengers it will be tough to turn a profit when those same passengers are offered the flexibility of an hourly train service to the heart of London just a few miles away.

Factor check-in times and onward travel to London and the plane is not quite as appealing but if Stobart wants to give it a try then good luck to them. Still don't agree to a government handout to run a route to London when there is already a train service.

Agree LTN. Re subsidies. Would it not benefit the whole area more if the A69 between Carlisle and Newcastle were to be duelled? Carlisle already has excellent road links north south...what is needed for the final piece of the jigsaw is east west? That money would be better spent on the road and probably ..rail network.

The train being quicker from central Carlisle to central London has been the subjecty of many previous discussions here on PPRuNe, alas we are not supposed to discuss trains, nor indeed 69 by-pass's, here and those discussions didn't meet with the approval of the enthusiasts of a particular airport in Essex ... But enough said about Clacton :)

As LTN suggests, good luck to them but I'm another that can't see it working out.

I could write paragraphs about why I would fly to Carlisle or Glasgow from south-east Essex, and take the train to Newcastle or Edinburgh, but I can hear groans from some and sense fury from others so I'll stop myself.

Surely it's all about the limit of Stobart's ambition with regard to passenger services. If all they're looking to achieve is 100,000 p.a. then they may get there one day.

Of course, they may strike a deal with FR to base a few 738's there, and re-name the airport, Glasgow South, Newcastle West or Manchester North.

They seemed pretty certain that they are aiming to mirror Southend.
By giving free slots to easy jet.
Look at it this way the A69 is not the safest or best road.
It has for the most part remained as it always has .
Passing through one village after another.
Plus your forgetting Dumfries and Galloway. Prestwick is a pain to drive to ( I've done it ) from anywhere in Galloway .
And has little to offer.
DTV is almost dead .
You have to leave the UK to go anywhere unless you want to go to ABZ .
There is also The Yorkshire Dales, lake district and Barrow.
Carlisle having spent a fair few hpursxover there is quite busy with BIZ jets already .
They seem commited to making this work.
Yes NCL is close but as Manchester and surrounding Motorways become ever more congested HS3 a distant dream , which is NOT coming to Carlisle it fizzles out at Crewe.
We are talking the here and now.
NOT what road or rail connections may be available years down the track.
The A66 is terrible twin track to single . They've left very dangerous bends tacked onto the ends of fast road sections.
And that doesn't take you near enough to Newcastle.
There seemed be a lot of local interest and support around .
Nobody I spoke to would not use services when and if offered .
Edinburgh and Glasgow are 150odd km+ distant MAN just as far .
NCL is linked by a dirt track.
So to see a new Venture work can only be a good thing.