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-   -   BA Cityflyer-2 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/601298-ba-cityflyer-2-a.html)

richardwpprn 23rd Jul 2018 09:20

MAN-SZG is returning for the ski season in December, any other new routes from MAN for the winter.

LAX_LHR 23rd Jul 2018 09:39

Looks to be just LCY/CMF/SZG ex-MAN again this winter. The only extra slots BA have applied for at MAN is to increase LHR and start a new Sun Air route to Oslo.

The96er 23rd Jul 2018 13:29


The only extra slots BA have applied for at MAN is to increase LHR and start a new Sun Air route to Oslo.
The LHR schedule ex MAN for winter is currently showing quite significant reductions over last winters ops at the moment. This could be that the schedule is still work in progress, but at the moment, the second nightstopper that operates in winter is showing operating in only a few days of the week. Some days are showing as low as 6/day mid week as opposed to 9/day last year.

LAX_LHR 23rd Jul 2018 13:49

Could be a work in progress then as they have applied for 64 extra slots this winter (but of course may not use those extra slots). Sun Air have applied for 264 extra slots this winter to facilitate OSL.

virginblue 27th Jul 2018 17:47

Has BACF AOG? I am right now at LCY and they are cancelling as if there is no tomorrow - flights to AMS, GLA, FRA, TXL, GVA all cancelled

planedrive 27th Jul 2018 20:18

Have you seen the weather?

virginblue 28th Jul 2018 07:03

Sure, I was in the middle of it. But as noone else was cancelling (except a Lufthansa and a Flybe flight) and most of the BA cancellations were hours in advance, what exactly was BACFs problem?

FRatSTN 28th Jul 2018 07:18

I don't know for certain, but guessing the BACF's mostly night-stop in LCY. If they all departed they'd probably have struggled to get them all back in again, meaning they'd have aircraft displaced for this morning also. All the non-based airlines will of course try to get out wherever possible, they don't want to be stuck in LCY when they need to be in say AMS, DUB etc. for this morning.

virginblue 28th Jul 2018 09:02


Originally Posted by FRatSTN (Post 10208276)
I don't know for certain, but guessing the BACF's mostly night-stop in LCY. If they all departed they'd probably have struggled to get them all back in again, meaning they'd have aircraft displaced for this morning also. All the non-based airlines will of course try to get out wherever possible, they don't want to be stuck in LCY when they need to be in say AMS, DUB etc. for this morning.

I noticed that BACF had scheduled three flights to GLA after 9 pm, presumably to position aircraft for weekend flights?

I was asking if they are short of aircraft as I noticed G-LCYL at SEN in the morning plus an all white E170 (Eastern?)

ELondonPax 28th Jul 2018 16:54

Lots of Cityflyer crew are Scottish base. So those evening flights to Glasgow get crew home, they carry folk heading to Scotland for the weekend (they're usually well loaded) and position the aircraft ready for the Barrhead work over the weekend.
The cancellations last evening left lots of folk stranded, including my partner who wasn't best pleased to get up in the middle of the night so he could get the first train out of Euston!

Welshtraveller 28th Jul 2018 18:49

BRS - Florence
 
Why was the Bristol to Florence flight cancelled?

This flight is always delayed, I had a nightmare of a flight last month. In addition to delays on both journeys the pilot removed all hold baggage from the plane as the aircraft was too heavy. I was a fan of British Airways but not anymore unfortunately.

TartinTon 28th Jul 2018 20:11

FLR is a poor choice of airport. Unfortunately its short runway and susceptibility to inclement weather mean that a disproportionate number of flights end up getting cancelled or diverting to PSA. Hopefully once the runway extension is built it will alleviate the situation to some degree.
Depending on the operating aircraft type, some operators get more penalised than others.

virginblue 28th Jul 2018 20:15


Originally Posted by ELondonPax (Post 10208640)
Lots of Cityflyer crew are Scottish base. So those evening flights to Glasgow get crew home, they carry folk heading to Scotland for the weekend (they're usually well loaded) and position the aircraft ready for the Barrhead work over the weekend.


Thanks for the info - I was not aware that this Friday schedule to GLA is not the exception, but the norm:
BA8730 LCY 21:00 - 22:20 GLA
BA8740 LCY 21:15 - 22:35 GLA
BA2210 LCY 21:30 - 22:50 GLA

Welshtraveller 28th Jul 2018 20:28

Bristol to Florence
 

Originally Posted by TartinTon (Post 10208793)
FLR is a poor choice of airport. Unfortunately its short runway and susceptibility to inclement weather mean that a disproportionate number of flights end up getting cancelled or diverting to PSA. Hopefully once the runway extension is built it will alleviate the situation to some degree.
Depending on the operating aircraft type, some operators get more penalised than others.

Thanks, will definitely learn by my mistake and fly to Pisa next time. The incoming aircraft from London City to Florence arrived on time on a sunny day. The flight to Bristol was delayed 3hrs and all bags were offloaded as the aircraft was too heavy. Boarded twice and even got to the edge of the runway, passengers had to return to terminal as more fuel had to be added. I don’t think the small aircraft (Embraer 170] could cope with the jouney. Bags eventually came a week later which was another nightmare.

On a separate note does anyone know BAs response times to deal with delayed compensation claims? I completed the form at the end of June but haven’t heard anything.

MerchantVenturer 28th Jul 2018 20:35


Originally Posted by Welshtraveller (Post 10208735)
Why was the Bristol to Florence flight cancelled?

This flight is always delayed, I had a nightmare of a flight last month. In addition to delays on both journeys the pilot removed all hold baggage from the plane as the aircraft was too heavy. I was a fan of British Airways but not anymore unfortunately.

Looking at FR24 E170 G-LCYG operated LCY-FLR three hours late this morning. It then operated FLR-BRS arriving at the latter at 1544 (sched arrival 1225). Instead of returning to FLR with Italy-bound passengers from BRS the flight is shown as cancelled.

All that is shown for the aircraft on FR24's aircraft flight history page is that it departed BRS at 1647 this afternoon with no destination shown. The page shows its next work as STN-FLR tomorrow morning so I'm assuming it went there from BRS.

The BRS website arrivals page shows the FLR-BRS as 'Arrived' but there is no information regarding its deparure on the airport's departures page except the unhelpful note 'Go to Departures' which has been in place since this afternoon.

A poster on another website who was due to travel with his family today said he received an app message from the airline saying today's FLR-BRS was cancelled.

Could this have been a crew hours issue bearing in mind the late running of the earlier sectors?

Welshtraveller 29th Jul 2018 08:20


Originally Posted by MerchantVenturer (Post 10208811)
Could this have been a crew hours issue bearing in mind the late running of the earlier sectors?

Yes, I think your correct as the crew must have been out of hours due to the delay and the London City to Florence & Florence to Bristol sector. I feel sorry for the poor passengers once again.

bravoromeosierra 29th Jul 2018 10:11

Last weekend's flight was delayed overnight from Saturday afternoon to Sunday morning too, not good performance!

Tranceaddict 29th Jul 2018 19:12


Originally Posted by bravoromeosierra (Post 10209143)
Last weekend's flight was delayed overnight from Saturday afternoon to Sunday morning too, not good performance!

that was due to a ground handling strike in FLR, not a BA issue, at least it went, the STN rotation was cancelled

richardwpprn 29th Jul 2018 19:18

Looks like tonight’s arrival from JMK to LCY is delayed beyond the curfew and likely to be diverted to SEN or STN.

WHBM 30th Jul 2018 07:19


Originally Posted by TartinTon (Post 10208793)
FLR is a poor choice of airport. Unfortunately its short runway and susceptibility to inclement weather .

It doesn't really gel, criticising a carrier based at London City, of all places, for operating to an airport with a short runway and liable to weather disruption ...

hi_fly 4th Aug 2018 14:35

Anyone know why today’s BA7017 from BRS to FLR is scheduled to be close to 3 hours late again despite the LCY flight carrying only a marginal delay? Appears to have got held up in FLR.

Flying this route from BRS next Saturday and rather worried about it!

Welshtraveller 4th Aug 2018 15:32


Originally Posted by hi_fly (Post 10214438)
Anyone know why today’s BA7017 from BRS to FLR is scheduled to be close to 3 hours late again despite the LCY flight carrying only a marginal delay? Appears to have got held up in FLR.

Flying this route from BRS next Saturday and rather worried about it!

I don't know about today’s flight but I wish you the best of luck as the flight is always delayed or cancelled, sorry I can't be more positive.

When I travelled on the same flight in June the outgoing flight was 2hrs late due to the late arrival of the aircraft.

The return journey from Florence to Bristol was horrendous. The incoming aircraft from London City arrived at Florence on time and boarded the flight to Bristol with no problems. Travelled to the end of the runway and waited for 1hr. The pilot said the aircraft was too heavy and we had to return to stand to add more fuel and disembark the aircraft. 3hrs later boarded for the second time and the pilot announced that the plane was still heavy so he left all of the hold bags behind. As you can imagine everyone was unhappy.

On arrival at Bristol completed lost baggage forms (they were not lost, more like deliberately left behind) and the bags arrived the following Friday, 6.5 days later. I suggest you pack some essential items as hand baggage just in case the same happens to you. I noticed the outgoing flight last Saturday was cancelled, I think the crew were out of hours. It appears the same crew operates the three flights so if there is a big delay they will cancel the last flight.

On the positive side, Florence is beautiful. Have a great time and good luck with the flights.

Update:- Today’s flight from Bristol to Florence has been cancelled for the 2nd consecutive week.

hi_fly 4th Aug 2018 18:43

Thanks for the response and sorry to hear about your experience - not good!

And yes...saw that it was cancelled in the end today presumably due to crew being out of hours. It’s a poor performance for a flight that only operates once a week.

Welshtraveller 4th Aug 2018 19:15


Originally Posted by hi_fly (Post 10214595)
Thanks for the response and sorry to hear about your experience - not good!

And yes...saw that it was cancelled in the end today presumably due to crew being out of hours. It’s a poor performance for a flight that only operates once a week.

Hope the flight works out well next week. Please share your experience when you return. Enjoy Florence.

MerchantVenturer 4th Aug 2018 19:17

Last week the BRS-FLR sector was cancelled because, it was presumed, crewing hours were an issue after the FLR-BRS sector landed at the latter nearly three and a half hours late. Today the FLR-BRS sector landed at BRS either 76 minutes late or 78 minutes late, depending on whether FR24 or the BRS website is the more accurate.

As has been said, the BRS-FLR sector was then cancelled. Do airlines now operate to such tight crewing schedules that a delay of just over an hour will put crews 'out of hours'?

WHBM 4th Aug 2018 21:17

I saw this go, on time, from LCY, at 0700 this morning. It overnights there and seems to start on time, then sits in Florence for hours for some reason.

Today’s flight from Bristol to Florence has been cancelled for the 2nd consecutive week.
Seems third consecutive week - not just 4 Aug and 28 Jul, but 21 Jul as well, when the inbound had arrived at Bristol just 50 minutes late. Only a three sector day, not four, so not quite apparent how the crew can be out of hours. It then overnights at Florence and does a return Stansted on Sunday morning, and then back to LCY.

Being off from LCY to Skiathos JSI in a couple of weeks, a significantly longer sector, beyond Athens, we hope for the best ...

Logohu 5th Aug 2018 05:59

Yesterday they hired a Carpatair F100 to do the IBZ-MAN flight. Perhaps Cityflyer has been overly optimistic with their scheduling of the Embraers, or there is a broken one somewhere

FL370 Officeboy 5th Aug 2018 08:19


Originally Posted by MerchantVenturer (Post 10214615)
Last week the BRS-FLR sector was cancelled because, it was presumed, crewing hours were an issue after the FLR-BRS sector landed at the latter nearly three and a half hours late. Today the FLR-BRS sector landed at BRS either 76 minutes late or 78 minutes late, depending on whether FR24 or the BRS website is the more accurate.

As has been said, the BRS-FLR sector was then cancelled. Do airlines now operate to such tight crewing schedules that a delay of just over an hour will put crews 'out of hours'?

Yes they do. They then assume the already knackered crew will just carry on deep into discretion to bail out their flawed planning.

Welshtraveller 5th Aug 2018 10:21


Originally Posted by FL370 Officeboy (Post 10214989)


Yes they do. They then assume the already knackered crew will just carry on deep into discretion to bail out their flawed planning.

That’s awful. BA was one of my favourite airlines but not anymore. I notice the cancelled flight to Florence stayed in BRS overnight and travelled to STN this morning. I can’t understand why yesterdays Bristol to Florence flight was cancelled as the incoming flight only arrived 1hr 15min late. My incoming flight arrived 2hrs late last month and the flight still departed. Perhaps there was another reason for the cancellation.

frontcheck 5th Aug 2018 16:14

And equally knackered ground staff dealing with delayed , cancelled and flights arriving with NO baggage.
Why schedule an aircraft on a route if its not within its capabilities.

WHBM 5th Aug 2018 17:09

But Bristol to Florence is quite within its capabilities. Its not like there's a short departure runway as there is at LCY earlier in its day's rotation.

Back in the supposedly "bad old days" of IT flights at least the various flights were carried out, maybe late if the inbound was so. If there happened to be insufficient performance on the day (like One-Elevens operating to Tenerife) then a fuel stop was arranged. But this is only 725nm, less than half the E-170s typical max payload range.

hi_fly 11th Aug 2018 21:58

So I made it across to FLR today on BA7017 from BRS but landed 2 hours late.

The morning LCY departure left 90 mins late due to a a cabin crew member calling in sick. A further 30 minute delay at BRS was due to an 5 unaccounted for bags being loaded which needed sorting.

I spoke to the cabin crew who were excellent. When I queried when they’d go out of hours they said they had already as they had come in on an early flight from Milan and volunteered for the FLR/BRS legs. This meant the LCY-FLR-BRS-FLR flights could operate but they’d end up working close to 13 hours!

Given this flight has been cancelled a few weeks in row I was happy to make it over...all down to a dedicated crew who volunteered at LCY. This route is certainly not without its challenges!

easyflyer83 12th Aug 2018 01:45

Crew sometimes over egg their willingness. Unless it goes into a day off..., crew are asked for their views but it’s ultimately the Captain who, under the peril of what he’s being told by the FO and cabin crew, decides whether to work into discretion or not.

it sounds like the crew here do a UK-FLR-UK-FLR-UK .... it doesn’t take long to go out of hours after that.

Welshtraveller 12th Aug 2018 06:51

Hi Fly,

Glad the flight wasn’t cancelled and you arrived safely despite the delay. The route definitely has it’s challenges, I don’t think the crew are over egging their willingness. Sounds like they have gone above and beyond to make the flight happen. Very poor scheduling on BAs part with poor customer service with the strong chance of delays and cancellation. Please let us know what happens with the return flight. Enjoy Florence.

WHBM 12th Aug 2018 08:24


Originally Posted by hi_fly (Post 10221128)
The morning LCY departure left 90 mins late due to a a cabin crew member calling in sick .... I spoke to the cabin crew who were excellent. When I queried when they’d go out of hours they said they had already as they had come in on an early flight from Milan and volunteered for the FLR/BRS legs.

This doesn't quite seem to add up. The morning LCY-Florence is due to depart 30 minutes before the Milan gets in, in fact it departs shortly after LCY opens, so the crew must have overnighted at LCY.And if "a" crew member then called in sick, why was the whole crew replaced by one which had come in overnight from Milan. Did the whole crew call in sick ?

I have heard this one before, that someone has "called in sick", when in fact it's nothing of the sort, but a mess-up by crewing.

Do Cityflyer have some Italian-based crew ? Not an idle question; a few years ago I was surprised to find that Cityjet at LCY on the 146 also had so (after a very fluent bilingual PA announcement on one of their flights to Italy), and some of their rosters through LCY were crewed from that end. LCY is a difficult place to retain staff, as we know much of Cityflyer's hub there is actually crewed from Scotland.

It's very good that tghe crew support last-minute mess-abouts like this. One hopes that crewing and management have a similar positive attitude back to them.

Welshtraveller 12th Aug 2018 09:08


Originally Posted by WHBM (Post 10221369)
This doesn't quite seem to add up. The morning LCY-Florence is due to depart 30 minutes before the Milan gets in, in fact it departs shortly after LCY opens, so the crew must have overnighted at LCY..

But the 7.15am flight from LCY to Florence didn't depart on time, yesterday the flight left 1hr 35min late. Sounds like they were waiting for the crew from the Milan flight so no overnight at LCY.

WHBM 12th Aug 2018 09:51


Originally Posted by Welshtraveller (Post 10221399)
But the 7.15am flight from LCY to Florence didn't depart on time, yesterday the flight left 1hr 35min late. Sounds like they were waiting for the crew from the Milan flight so no overnight at LCY.

Indeed. But it doesn't just tie with one crew member reporting sick that morning, if they were waiting for a whole crew.

rog747 12th Aug 2018 09:51


Originally Posted by Welshtraveller (Post 10221399)
But the 7.15am flight from LCY to Florence didn't depart on time, yesterday the flight left 1hr 35min late. Sounds like they were waiting for the crew from the Milan flight so no overnight at LCY.

sounds like it and possibly faster than calling in from standby (IF they even had someone on SBY - Do BACF have airport stand by crew like at BA at LHR and LGW?)

The Florence crew were possibly then used on a later flight with a standby that was called in to make up the numbers

Crewing is a nightmare (i used to do it) and although if you only have 50 pax you can go with just 1 CC member, but if you have a Club Europe load to look after as well then you def need more than 1 CC.

rog747 12th Aug 2018 09:55

to add
to have airport standby crew is not ness the best option as the longer they sit around waiting then the less duty hours they can be used for - whereas calling from home mean max duty hours apply (but dependant on time of day etc and whether they have a day off booked next day and more)
but it was not common to roster SBY to day off

willy wombat 12th Aug 2018 10:08

rog747 - in my day, cabin crew minimum numbers was dictated by number of seats fitted - minimum one CC per 50 seats regardless of number of pax so on a 50 (or less) seat aircraft one CC OK but a 51 seat aircraft minimum two CC. Have the rules changed? PS we could config our a/c down to 100 seats (changing 6 abreast to 5 abreast) and in extremis go with two CC and minimal service.


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