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Plane.Silly 25th Jan 2019 09:23


The economics of operating 1x 325+ seat aircraft doing 2 short haul flights a day on high demand routes with 2 sets of crew must work out better than utilising 2x 189 doing 2 flights per day with 4 sets of crews. As a holiday company you also need to look at whats going on in resort.
I'm with you on this one. It definately makes sense with them trying their hand with the leased A332, Some of the largest bases/destinations are more slot constrained, either by terminal size or runway/parking space. certainly from a runway/ parking perspective, to Remedy this, consolidating 2x 189 on to a widebody frees up a spare slot for future growth, while maintaining the same capacity on the existing routemakes sense as you deliver the same

I only suggested the B788 since Jet2 like to own Boeing and lease Airbus. An all economy B788 would probably get in the region of 350 seats, close to 2 x B738's at 378 seats, that was the logic behind all this

rog747 25th Jan 2019 10:16

Historically in the past we have seen all the major IT holiday charter airlines use on their prime high density routes big wide body aircraft - all big people movers.

BOAC used their new 747-100's LHR to Palma at weekends when they first got them from 1971
Then Court Line Tristars Laker and BCAL DC-10's, B-tours Tristars
A300's of Laker Monarch Orion Dan Air.
Britannia 767's from 1984 and so on

In Europe Condor Scanair/SAS KLM Sabena LTU Finnair Martinair TEA Conair used a mix of 747's DC-10's A300 A330 MD11 and Tristar to the Med and Canaries all the time.

Since the plethora of new 737 and A320/321 coming along we have seen smaller and smaller aircraft used on peak IT routes with ever increasing design in maxing out of seats - the 757 and 767 are now a rare species.

The economics and size of the A330 see's their use again on peak IT routes
The 787 which TUI use around their short and medium haul does not have the same economics and they were not really designed for short haul use.

Not sure if we will ever see the days of large numbers of wide bodies back on these types of flights

chaps1954 25th Jan 2019 10:33

It may well be the way companies sell package holidays, they all used to go on certain days (hotel ,changeover) but now people want to go the days that suit them so instead of all flights going on a Wednesday they are now 5 flights a week and people picking say Easyjet out and return on Jet2 because of days of operation, times etc.
The other thing 30 years ago the main small aircraft were a lot smaller than now (1-11, B732) as against B738/A321 even A320 are not common.

Cuillin Hills 25th Jan 2019 19:08

I am with rog747 on this one - A330 is an excellent, very capable aircraft compared to a B788 and adapts very well to the short haul holiday market (compared to the B788).

I still don’t get the economics of a B788 in such a market - there’s is considerable seat mile cost savings with a B738 compared to the high lease rates of a B788.


Buster the Bear 25th Jan 2019 19:30


Originally Posted by caaardiff (Post 10369831)
The economics of operating 1x 325+ seat aircraft doing 2 short haul flights a day on high demand routes with 2 sets of crew must work out better than utilising 2x 189 doing 2 flights per day with 4 sets of crews. As a holiday company you also need to look at whats going on in resort. It's TUI Holidays that needs the flights, not TUI Airways. So one set of transfers, check-in at Airport and Hotels, reps etc etc.

How long are the 757's due to be around for? That will be a cut in capacity and also restricts the US flights.

At least 2025.

BasilFawlty 26th Jan 2019 02:24

Will they last that long when it comes to flight cycles?

rog747 26th Jan 2019 10:16


Originally Posted by chaps1954 (Post 10370298)

The other thing 30 years ago the main small aircraft were a lot smaller than now (1-11, B732) as against B738/A321 even A320 are not common.

Good point but the 1-11 and first 737's started on the IT charter market were over 50 years ago! British Eagle Laker Autair then Court and Channel AW - first BY 737 in 1968
Then along came in the early 70's older big jets like cheap but thirsty 707's 720B's and the 727-100's on the IT charters (KT BD DA GK and OM)
followed soon by the first new Court and Laker wide bodies.

willy wombat 26th Jan 2019 12:21

Don’t forget Donaldson (DI?)

rog747 27th Jan 2019 07:57


Originally Posted by willy wombat (Post 10371397)
Donít forget Donaldson (DI?)

Yup- you are a sharp pin on the ball - lol - 707's to Palma etc

azz767 28th Jan 2019 08:38

Jethros are reporting that the proposed summer lease of an Evelop A330-300 has now been cancelled.

Anyone know anymore? Are they looking for a replacement or is it they have realised they don't need that capacity.

116d 28th Jan 2019 12:23


Originally Posted by caaardiff (Post 10369831)
The economics of operating 1x 325+ seat aircraft doing 2 short haul flights a day on high demand routes with 2 sets of crew must work out better than utilising 2x 189 doing 2 flights per day with 4 sets of crews. As a holiday company you also need to look at whats going on in resort. It's TUI Holidays that needs the flights, not TUI Airways. So one set of transfers, check-in at Airport and Hotels, reps etc etc.

Additionally, it probably suits TUI to use a 787 on a short-haul hop in between long-haul flights as that aircraft would otherwise be sat on the ground and frees up a 737/757 for use on another short-haul route. See also BA/IB using widebodies on LHR-MAD or even EI using A330's DUB-Europe - the usage in this manner is in between long-haul sectors and meets a need to provide more capacity than a single narrowbody and as an alternative to doubling up flights.

I agree that the use of a widebody on a short-haul route doesn't make sense on the face of it and it makes no sense to buy and use an aircraft as capable (and expensive when new) as the 787 in that way all the time. However, when the bigger picture is taken into account you can see why TUI do it and why they're not alone in that regard.


BusBoy 29th Jan 2019 14:06

And if No Deal Brexit (sorry!) happens and UK airlines are capped at the 2018 frequencies suddenly the wide bodies look even better

Leeds Spotter 30th Jan 2019 16:10

Jet2 are to offer booking in the day before for hold cases from 3pm to 8pm
https://www.jet2.com/twilight
This is certainly ideal for me as I struggle with my partner in a wheel chair or families with buggies etc.

Civagiarn 31st Jan 2019 16:08

Does anyone know where the 757s will be based this summer and on what routes?

irishlad06 31st Jan 2019 17:08


Originally Posted by Civagiarn (Post 10376555)
Does anyone know where the 757s will be based this summer and on what routes?


At the minute it looks like the plan is for 4 x B757ís to be based in LBA. (Maybe a titan B757 as well but not confirmed as Air Europa EC-IDT seems to be based there instead.

7xB757ís to be based in MAN with 6 flying and 1 on standby.

From MAN and LBA they will fly a mixture of routes.

A quick looks shows the below

DLM
FUE
ACE
HER
PFO
LCA
ZTH
ADB
IBZ
FAO
VCE
AGP
ALC
REU
DBV
BCN
RHO
LPA
EFL
FNC
CFU
TFS
BUD
PMI
MAH
BJV
SPU
ALC


These are subject to change however are all
on sale as B757s between 27th July and 2nd Aug.

garry8g 4th Feb 2019 17:00

Jet2's last brand new B737-800 (G-JZBS) flew to the paint shop in Bournemouth this morning. Not long till we see it in full Jet2 Holidays livery!

Johnny [email protected] Pants 4th Feb 2019 18:16


Jethros are reporting that the proposed summer lease of an Evelop A330-300 has now been cancelled.

Anyone know anymore?
I do........:ok:

irishlad06 4th Feb 2019 18:56


Originally Posted by johnny [email protected] pants (Post 10380212)


i do........:ok:

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

HH6702 4th Feb 2019 19:06

Which was ??

evelop need it themselves due to late A350 arrival

or

jet2 can't fill the aircraft anymore

Stanstedeye 4th Feb 2019 19:46

BA
Has been working out of STN.


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