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CX indicated they couldn't serve DUB 11 years ago because of the runway (4 Asian carriers were consulted by daa on runway size), yet the runway hasn't changed but aircraft technology has. Yes they are probally restricted in terms of payload but 3,100m should be more than sufficient.
Of the 4 the only other potential service would be SQ/Scoot on the B787 (FYI Scoot make Ryanair look like a 5 star carrier, they would be terrible here over SQ) Pilots just like a lot of runway in front of them, Cathay seem to do OK off the existing runway at DUB which is shorter. SQ also manage the 13 hour MAN-SIN with an A350 off 23R which is 2897m declared TORA. These services wouldn't be operating if the payloads were uneconomic. We're not flying 747 Classics and DC-8s anymore. What's the problem? IALPA didn't raise such concerns in 2004 or more recently when the plans were revised in 2016 publicly. None of there pilots will ever get a chance to fly to Asia the way things are going. Something wrong when a union claims to have the nations interests at heart. The publicity stunt failed to gain any traction and it suddenly came out during a dispute with Ryanair which was heavily covered. |
You are obviously not a pilot, so here’s some information for you. At the moment, most long haul aircraft departing Dublin this summer cannot land safely back in Dublin if they have a serious problem after takeoff because of the runway length. The longer the runway the safer an immediate return to landing because of the faster speeds on landing in most emergencies. The longer runway means that the engines don’t have to produce full power on takeoff thus preserving the engine life and reducing the yaw produced by an engine failure. a longer runway means no restrictions on passangers and freight carried, thus making the flight cheaper for the airlines. If Dublin is serious about being a hub and creating more jobs for Irish pilots and other workers it needs the right infrastructure. who remembers the M50 extra lane debacle. So knowing this now, you may understand why IALPA seeks the longest runway it can get. |
IIRC,
the original planning permission from 2007, first submitted in 2004, was for 3,100m. Since then, the DAA has moved to a preference for a 3.660m build. see the Capital Investment Plan 2010-2014 http://www.aviationreg.ie/_fileuploa..._2010-2014.pdf section 8.1.3 Physical requirements of new runway, Page 51. JAS |
Originally Posted by waffler
(Post 10232727)
You are obviously not a pilot, so here’s some information for you. At the moment, most long haul aircraft departing Dublin this summer cannot land safely back in Dublin if they have a serious problem after takeoff because of the runway length. The longer the runway the safer an immediate return to landing because of the faster speeds on landing in most emergencies. The longer runway means that the engines don’t have to produce full power on takeoff thus preserving the engine life and reducing the yaw produced by an engine failure. a longer runway means no restrictions on passangers and freight carried, thus making the flight cheaper for the airlines. If Dublin is serious about being a hub and creating more jobs for Irish pilots and other workers it needs the right infrastructure. who remembers the M50 extra lane debacle. So knowing this now, you may understand why IALPA seeks the longest runway it can get. |
The A359 is the first ULR capable widebody that can get out of Dublin when wet, and that’s a crucial bit;wet. EK regularly have to offload up to 20T of cargo when the runway is wet. The other crucial bit is high temps. The SFO and LAX 330s often have to offload in hot calm days too. The 777x in all likelihood will not get off the new runway when wet at MTOW. So really if DUB are serious about getting Tokyo, Singapore or South America on the departure boards in future, it’ll be A359 or nothing. |
The key question is this 'Is a 3600m runway essential for long haul or is it a nice-to-have?' If DUB already has commercially viable non-stop service to LAX and HKG off its current 2637m runway then a 3110m has got be a big improvement. MAN has at best 3200m (23L) with similar long sectors to DUB operating viably also from 23R (2897m). Additional runway length comes at a cost of tens of millions of Euros which has to be funded through airport charges and is of real value only on a few occasions each year. I have done Performance A training and I know all about flex thrust and variable V1 figures, but airports have to make commercially sound investment decisions. Runways much longer than 3000m are rarely needed with a low airport elevation and a Northern European climate.
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Originally Posted by roverman
(Post 10233228)
The key question is this 'Is a 3600m runway essential for long haul or is it a nice-to-have?' If DUB already has commercially viable non-stop service to LAX and HKG off its current 2637m runway then a 3110m has got be a big improvement. MAN has at best 3200m (23L) with similar long sectors to DUB operating viably also from 23R (2897m). Additional runway length comes at a cost of tens of millions of Euros which has to be funded through airport charges and is of real value only on a few occasions each year. I have done Performance A training and I know all about flex thrust and variable V1 figures, but airports have to make commercially sound investment decisions. Runways much longer than 3000m are rarely needed with a low airport elevation and a Northern European climate.
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Originally Posted by Una Due Tfc
(Post 10233094)
The A359 is the first ULR capable widebody that can get out of Dublin when wet, and that’s a crucial bit;wet. EK regularly have to offload up to 20T of cargo when the runway is wet. The other crucial bit is high temps. The SFO and LAX 330s often have to offload in hot calm days too. The 777x in all likelihood will not get off the new runway when wet at MTOW. So really if DUB are serious about getting Tokyo, Singapore or South America on the departure boards in future, it’ll be A359 or nothing. In addition to A350, the B787s and A330 NEOs should be capable of fly most route at full or almost full MTOW. In general max MTOW isn't possible from the vast majority of airports (ultra long route) across the globe. DUB will not fail to attache n airline who wants to serve with a runway of 3.110 or 3.600. |
Originally Posted by EI-A330-300
(Post 10233579)
The newer A333 shouldn't have many problems heading to SFO with cargo?
In addition to A350, the B787s and A330 NEOs should be capable of fly most route at full or almost full MTOW. In general max MTOW isn't possible from the vast majority of airports (ultra long route) across the globe. DUB will not fail to attache n airline who wants to serve with a runway of 3.110 or 3.600. As said above, the longer the runway the more capacity it provides. Narrowbodies can jump on and get going at an intersection whilst the heavies are still taxiing or lining up down the end, and tower controller can increase movement rate and reduce waiting times by tailoring the sequence of departures to have minimal wake turbulence delays. You want to minimize the instances of aircraft following ones of a higher wake category, so if you’ve got 3 320s/737s and 2 330s, send the 2 330s down the end, launch the narrowbodies off intersections and then send the 2 heavies out one after the other, otherwise the narrowbodies have to sit and wait for a couple of minutes for the wake from the heavy to dissipate. The above situation is for single use runway ops ie departures only. Mixed ops allows arrivals to break up wake turbulence waits. |
daa have announced plans to spend €900 million by 2023 on new stands and piers at the airport.
* €500 million on southern side (T2 side) and €400 million on northern side (Ryanair area) * Stands will increase from 112 to 147 * Enhance security, immigration and US immigration will be expanded They will borrow money to fund it and not increase passenger charges because airlines could move aircraft and necessary to stave off competition from rival gateways in Britain and Europe. Indications T2 will get its new pier while T1 will get new pier via busing passengers Full plans to be published next month. https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...port-1.3621033 |
TAP appear to have confirmed there return after saying it was under consideration a few months ago. Not on sale yet. |
TAP confirm 2 daily LIS operated by A319./320.
Depart LIS 07.05 and 14.00 Depart DUB 10,35 and 17.30 https://nit.pt/out-of-town/viagens/t...ublin-basileia |
Minneapolis starts 8 July operated by B752 - 6 weekly others say daily
DUB-MSP 14.10-16.55 MSP-DUB 19.00-08.40 Montreal, starts 8 August operated by A321LR - daily DUB-YUL 18.50-20.50 YUL-DUB 22.20-09.40 |
Any thoughts on what will be done with the A321LR in the daytime?
It's too long a period to leave it lying idle, but the Malaga or Faro would probably strain the time a little too much, as any delay would be impossible to recover. Heathrow would be asking for trouble with slots and delays, while Schiphol or CDG are also risky. Is there enough demand on routes like Nantes, Bordeaux or Toulouse to justify its use? |
I think CDG is a safe bet, last year management spoke of the A321LR's potential in offering a seamless product on key European routes to the US via Dublin and they would be considering a number of routes including London or Paris. I don't think it's a coincidence they've opted for Montreal as the launch route for the A321LR.
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Over 3.2m in August up 6%
European 1.7m up 6% UK 927k - no chnage (FR cancellations?) Transatlantic 465k up 14% Other Int 111k up 16% Domestic 12k up 23% 2918 to date over 21.2m up 6% https://www.dublinairport.com/latest...dublin-airport |
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Looks like DUB will end up with 31-31.5 million passenger for this year.
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31-31.5 million passenger for this year |
Originally Posted by Wycombe
(Post 10269781)
Astonishing really when you think that the population of the whole if the island of Ireland is under 6m. And that it's not the only Airport that serves them.
FWIW, latest estimated population figures NI 1.87m (NISRA, June 2018), Ireland 4.85m (CSO, April 2018), so 6,72m overall. Still has a way to go to recover to the pre-famine high of 1841 with 8.2m-8.5m. JAS |
West Jet have announced a new route to Calgary next summer.
eff 01JUN19 Calgary – Dublin (New route, 3 weekly; 2 weekly from 11SEP19) WS006 YYC2045 – 1138+1DUB 789 367 WS005 DUB1345 – 1505YYC 789 147 |
Astonishing really when you think that the population of the whole if the island of Ireland is under 6m. And that it's not the only Airport that serves them. |
Singapore is not in any way shape or form comparable to the Island of Ireland. Singapore is a city state, Ireland is a state. It’s like comparing Portugal with London. |
You really can't compare anywhere to Ireland. The closest you'll get is the North Island of New Zealand, where the land area is about 30% bigger, but the population is about 40% lower. But that doesn't have anywhere as heavily-populated as Europe on its doorstep, nor is it split between two states.
For what it's worth, Auckland handles about 20 million passengers, while a fairly sizable airport also exists in Wellington, which handles 6 million. They are about 600km apart though, so it's more like Cork Airport to City of Derry than Dublin to Belfast. |
Not really, there are many similar examples elsewhere. For instance Singapore an island country with a population of close to 6 million has an airport that handles 62 million. The only similarity is that a large Airport succeeds in a Country that has a much smaller domestic population than it's annual throughput. As you say, the same could be said of many. Anyway, was just trying to be positive about what's been achieved at DUB. |
FR summer 2019 schedule includes (some announced) new routes:
Bordeaux, Bournemouth, Cagliari, Frankfurt, Gothenburg, Lourdes, Luxembourg, London Southend and Thessaloniki. Takes total routes to over 100. |
No more strings to pull ...
Sadly, it appears that Cello Aviation has ceased trading today.
https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/8960588 |
Ethiopian will end ADD-DUB-LAX in mid December
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...-mid-dec-2018/ DUB flights will be routed as ADD-MAD-DUB eff 15th December without local traffic rights on MAD-DUB. |
T
Originally Posted by Seljuk22
(Post 10285622)
Ethiopian will end ADD-DUB-LAX in mid December
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...-mid-dec-2018/ DUB flights will be routed as ADD-MAD-DUB eff 15th December without local traffic rights on MAD-DUB. |
Yeah, it appears they’re just no longer picking up pax in DUB in either direction on the LAX flight and are instead routing Irish pax to ADD via MAD. Serious downgrade in convenience for those heading to Africa, ADD got you pretty much anywhere in one stop, now it’s 2. |
Was the whole point of the operation to be just fuel stops.
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Originally Posted by Alteagod
(Post 10285803)
Was the whole point of the operation to be just fuel stops.
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Air Canada to replace B737 max with A330-300 on YUL next year. |
LH add 3rd daily MUC next summer which will night stop in DUB. |
Originally Posted by Blakedean
(Post 10285705)
Apparently there’s been an update ADD-DUB-LAX will continue now as well as the new ADD-MAD-DUB flights, the LAX flight now becoming another pit stopper.
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Originally Posted by blaggerman
(Post 10298690)
The LAX route won't be via Dublin at all. It will route via Togo instead.
So with LH adding another MUC flight & AC upgauging, who do we think will be the next to add either frequencies or a new flight? |
It’s going via Togo with fifth freedom between Togo and LAX. |
Pity to see them end that route, but when you've got to go, you've got Togo.
Good that they'll be sticking with DUB and having a one stop via MAD; I think that there is considerable potential for traffic from Dublin to Africa, so hopefully in time, this can become a nonstop again. |
DL upgrades from B752 to B763 next year on BOS-DUB AC mainline A333 replaces Rouge B763 on YVR-DUB |
More than 2.8 million passengers travelled through Dublin Airport in October, which was a 9% increase on the same month last year. The increase in passenger numbers made it the busiest October in Dublin Airport’s 78-year history.
The number of passengers flying to and from continental Europe increased by 8%, as almost 1.5 million passengers travelled to and from European destinations in October. More than 877,000 passengers travelled to and from UK destinations last month, a 4% increase compared to October last year. Transatlantic traffic to North America increased by 17%, with almost 390,000 passengers travelling on this route sector last month. The number of passengers travelling to other international destinations in the Middle East, Africa and the Asia Pacific regions increased by 19%, with almost 83,000 passengers flying to these routes in October. More than 9,600 passengers travelled on domestic routes last month, which was a 21% increase when compared to the same month last year. Dublin Airport has welcomed almost 27 million passengers in the first 10 months of the year, a 6% increase over the same period in 2017. More than 1.6 million extra passengers have travelled through the airport between January and October. So far this year, the number of passengers connecting through Dublin Airport to another destination has increased by 18%, with almost 1.6 million passengers connecting at the airport between January and October. Dublin Airport has flights to almost 190 destinations in 43 countries, operated by 56 airlines Went to L.A. last month with Aer lingus and was full again both ways . |
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