Palmair
 

No chance of a return of Palmair. The market has moved on... and most of their customers have probably passed away. :sad:

Be careful what you wish for... Rigby owns Coventry, which has recently had its instrument approach removed, ATC downgraded to air/ground radio service, fire cover reduced, and opening hourss curtailed. Net result is West Atlantic can no longer viably fly their 737s and ATPs in and out for maintenance, so it has upped sticks and moved that side of its business to EMA (coincidentally another MAG airport). Rigby's other airports are Norwich and Exeter, while it also manages Solent, Blackpool and City of Derry. Not sure any of those are a ringing endorsements of the concept that things will get better for BOH if MAG sells out.

You hit the nail on the head.

Althought Stephen Bath likes to blame Ryanair for all his woes one of the big reasons Palmair stopped operating at the end of summer 2010 was that they also lost a vast amount of money during the volcanic ash shutdown in April of that year.

If we go off the assumption that this deal goes ahead, what next? Who do they plan/hope will come in to make it a worthwhile venture

Any takers?

Housing would make sense.

No, some of us are still here! Palmair were great in their time. You may have paid more, but you were made to feel special. They gave you a great holiday. Although European's 737-200s were a bit long in the tooth, they were comfortable. A number of aircrew were ex BA and were highly respected. But the Palmair model was dated and, sadly, wouldn't work now. Many have come to see that making all your own travel arrangements online isn't such a disaster. Probably many travel agents' days are numbered too - but that's another story.

I think that any plans to discontinue flying at Bournemouth would be a huge mistake. I am generally a supporter of SOU, as this is my nearest and most convenient airport.

However, the Eastleigh area to the north of Southampton is desperately short of development land, and indeed Eastleigh Borough Council are looking to bring forward a very contentious new development of around 5000 new homes on environmentally sensitive green belt land to the north of the town.

The Solent region as a whole has grown enormously in the last 20 years or so, and the region including Portsmouth, Southampton, Bournemouth, Fareham, Havant, Gosport, Eastleigh, Christchurch, Bournemouth and Poole now forms an almost contiguous urban area with a population of around 2 million, with a very high proportion of high earners.

The sensible approach would be to properly develop Bournemouth airport, with improved and increased parking, further enlargement of the terminal, a new link road to the A388 and a reliable 20 minute frequency bus connection to Christchurch rail station (re-named Christchurch and Bournemouth Airport).

The idea of calling the airport Bournemouth is too parochial, and this should be changed to South Central or Southern England or similar and all SOU flights together with new routes should be centred on Bournemouth to give the whole region a much-needed large regional airport allowing proper connectivity to this major UK region.

The existing site at Eastleigh airport could then be closed and sold for development.

Some good points there SFP, couple fo points to emphasise,

Transport links are much better at SOU than BOH, given it's Straight off the M3/M27 and with rail connections. Definately beats it there.

Name change: not sure if some people would confuse with other areas. (IMHO)

SOU is much busier than BOH, wouldn't it make sense to move BOH operations over instead?

And surely they're other options for housing rather than just airports. Feels like an extension to the naysayers in the DTV thread

My sides are splitting.:rolleyes:

There are plenty of businesses making money on the site, so I would imagine slow organic growth with a strong emphasis on controlling costs.

Presumably any sale will include a deal to sort out any ongoing debt on the terminal, and I would expect there would be a lower corporate overhead being part of the Rigby Group compared to MAG.

Road links yes, granted.....but nothing a new link directly from A338 wouldn't solve (using existing quarry junction?)

As for the rail link, how many actually use this to travel SOU, most are using parkway for a London commute and not to use the airport? BRS manages without a train link, why would BOH need one.

SOU is busier yes, but is also very limited both by working hour restrictions (noise etc) and runway length/apron capacity, all of which BOH wins hands down on.

River Joint. How we've missed you.........:ooh:

I believe the terminal is all paid for now? I seem to remember MAG stating the investment would be paid for over a 10 year term, so possibly this year if not next. Meaning if that's the case, along with the north west industrial estate being a sweetner as part of any sale, could be quite a good deal long term for the Rigby Group if the actual rumours are true.

Announced at 7am...
BOH sold to RCA (Rigby Group) for an undisclosed sum.

New Website
 

the new website says it all

https://www.bournemouthairport.com/

That's a much improved web site.

New owner talking Paris, Amsterdam and possibly Frankfurt within 12-18 months.

Never smile at a crocodile
 

RCA chief executive Andrew Bell added: “I am delighted to welcome everyone at Bournemouth Airport to our fast-growing team. It is already one of the South’s flagship aviation hubs, and I am very much looking forward to working with the staff and management as we continue to expand its operations and build on that success.”

Very similar to the announcment for Bournemouth, in 2010

Sir Peter said the airport's location, in the centre of the country, was a positive factor and his company would maintain a full service with business jets, cargo, light aircraft and helicopters.

He wants it for the developement opportunities the surrounding land offers. You only have to look at the recent demise of commercial operations at Coventry to see which way it will go.

It's great to be optimistic about new ownership and I'd imagine there's a bit of feelgood factor around BOH at the moment with the change, but realistically, who can you see wanting to operate these routes?

The obvious one would have been Flybe, but they've tried already and it didn't end well.

Bournemouth's strength is its long runway and variety of aviation businesses on site. An expanded holiday flight program could work, along with further development of long haul charter for those who don't wish to traipse up to Gatwick.
But business flights? With SOU along the road with its better catchment, motorway junction, train station, and existing route/airline portfolio? I really can't see what value there is in going after that market. Flybe tried and it didn't work, the yields were a fraction of those from SOU. Stobart to Dublin, Jet2 to Belfast, Thomsonfly to Amsterdam. All came and went while those routes have continued and grown from SOU. You may pick up passengers from the Bournemouth/Poole conurbation who can fly from their closest airport, but not enough to make the route worthwhile.
I think Bournemouth has a great niche as a kind of south coast Prestwick, with a variety of movements, but there will never be enough passenger demand to make airliners the dominant business model.

Its common knowledge that Flybe used BOH as leverage to get a better deal signed at SOU (which they did initially) The truth however, is that loads were better on most routes from BOH, with no flight cancellations either. (Which Flybe do regularly from SOU if only a small number of seats are sold) then moving passengers onto the next available flight to the same destination normally later that day.

There is still a strong market for the likes of Amsterdam, Glasgow, Dublin and Edinburgh routes from BOH I feel, flight times are the key to there success though, Ibiza (Ryanair) was also very busy in the past.

More winter ski routes would no doubt work too, Geneva alone isn't enough.

Sorry to take issue with what you've written, but are you able to provide any factual information or statistics to back up your assertions there?

Were you party to the details of the negotiations between Flybe management, SOU and BOH? People have speculated that Flybe's strategy was to force a better deal from SOU, but speculation doesn't necessarily equate to fact and the only people who know what went on in those negotiations probably won't be posting on here.

Even if BOH loads were better (which I doubt), it's yield that matters, not load factor.

Are you sure no Flybe BOH flights were ever cancelled? Got the stats?

I'm aware of occasions when Flybe have combined flights into or out of SOU (and other airports), but only in cases of technical problems causing flight cancellations or recovering from schedule disruption. e.g. fog or airport closures. It's fairly standard practice. They are a under a bit more pressure at SOU because it closes overnight, so it's very important to them that they get all aircraft in before closure to prevent more disruption the following morning.

I have heard it all now :eek:

Someone call the men in white coats.

The Nuts Mutts, totally agreed with your post. Alarm bells are already ringing for me. It just shows that Rigby know nothing of BOH’s true potential in the LCC and package holiday sector and are instead focusing on a deadly strategy which has been tried over and over in the past and never worked.

Jet2, easyJet, Ryanair and overseas LCC’s are the way to go and perhaps a co-operative relationship with SOU when it comes to Hub connections...

Pretty sure they’re gonna mess up the relationship with Ryanair

Jet2 may not be a bad shout, at least mid-term. They did start out at BOH in the Channel Express days. Also their next phase of expansion once BHX/STN are sorted is further south, and their product/clientele would be well matched
I'd imagine BOH would be one consideration, though it would have made more sense while MAG still owned the airport, so that LS fly from all 4 of their airports. I'd still be a bit sceptical though, considering the CEO ruled out a return to BLK, a simliar size/style airport to BOH, and now that Rigby have vested interests in both.

Property, property, property, property....everything else is an add-on

There is no comparison between BLK and BOH, BOH has many thriving aviation assets whereas BLK has none to really to talk about.

Yes and yes
 

Of course it's a huge element about property and the potential there is massive and already handed to Rigbys Real Estate division - don't assume he won't attempt to grow the air operations too or that they will automatically rangle with Ryanair - they have some experience of handling a relationship with them at Derry so it's not a given a clash of egos will happen - as for new routes and growth don't overlook the obvious - Rigby own an executive jet business - this could provide as many business destinations as you like to the list of destinations - so destination growth ldoesn't mean it needs to be full services but looks nice on a list - what isn't in doubt is the potential is there despite 'the angry men of PPRUNE with a SOU defence on everything - LC - particularly Ryanair and Package Holiday - particularly TUI - like it or not could in one swing inflate the passenger numbers way beyond growth increases in most airports overnight without any further investment in infrastructure at BOH - which at SOU is impossible without hard cash capital investment - it is potential and may always be potential - but possible - as far as access goes - always overstated as an issue , is resolved with a proper 30
Min shuttle bus from CHR and BOH stations - Luton and Bristol Manage well enough - as for roads and more building on land - local politics suggest that said Council could be running itself into deep financial issues if it continues down its local 'brexit' path of refusing to merge with BBC and Poole so would expect money to talk when it has to and a Mega Council bigger than a lot of cities will a want major trophy airport for their new status and a good guess most things will be possible.
If I were Rigby I'd be inviting in Ryan and Tui, buying the drinks and the dinner and promising no change, no pressure, but suggesting if at some point we can look at favourable expansion package to try again...

Assets aside, and comparing BLK before they went down the swanny, i beleve there was a fair comparison
# Both seaside cities with a decent sized catchment area
# Overshadowed by other local airports [BOH vs SOU (at a push LGW)] and BLK vs MAN
# Primarily bucket and spade routes
# Both had heydays pre-recession (BOH just over 1m pax, BLK just over 500k pax, both roughly halved since)

My point was, if Jet2 management would rule out a return to BLK, a 'similar outfit' such as BOH might not be the preferred place for further expansion

LOLOL :p

I also hear the loads to BGI are better out of BOH; ergo BOH is better than SOU.. :rolleyes:

Hurn BOH and Eastleigh SOU are like chalk and cheese -- they cannot be compared nor can either be expanded as to the ways we would like as many of you pontificate above

you cannot extend SOU runways without huge infrastructure changes BUT it has fabulous transport links and is almost an alternate to a LON airport for many in the south who wish to go to near europe.
- but SOU remains UFN a regional and near europe departure point with a shaky main carrier or two there with no possibility of mid or long hauls - also apron stand space is limited too - although approval I gather has been given for more expansion for extra stands? edit is this correct?

as for BOH it has awful transport links and sits out on a narrow country lane with cows in the fields opposite BUT it has a new terminal and a longer runway to enable mid/long haul flights -
again any changes/improvements to links will involve huge road and rail investment which simply is not there.

however BOH teeters from good to bad every other year and the new owners will have to breathe life back in to the airport to gain any visibility -
BOH has done itself no favours over the years with such negative passenger handling and cruel drop off charges which any customer focused owners should have shelved.

things will not change in the near term for either airports and if Flybe and BMI go the same way as Monarch then that leaves SOU open to EZY who then maybe be seen setting up a bigger base there like the SEN model.

just my tuppence but I am local to BOH (no new road, Tubbs) and have seen the comings and goings over the past 25 years or so

Congratulations, rog747, on an answer that just about totally sums up the Bournemouth situation. All of the FACTS listed in an objective & concise summary. Nothing more needs to be said. Somehow, I am sure that it will be !

Kcockayne
I agree ,a good summary,but with one essential error!.
There has been no announcement of approval for Southampton expansion.Surely this is the key point,without the expansion airside then the future is clouded.

i merely mention that i gather some extra SOU apron/stand expansion has been approved or is that a misnomer?

cheers for the comments

my first flight from Hurn was around 1977 or 1978 on a jolly to Palma on a BY 737-200 on a thomson flight (staff travel free seats) and back the next week on a free seats from Palmair on a Dan Air Comet,
although we lived in London then the seats were up for grabs and we drove down to the 'country' lol

has it changed much ? erm nooooo

Where did you hear that rog747? cheers

correct me if i am wrong but someone proffered that recently on the SOU thread - seemed to be in the know - but hey ho this is a rumour network lol

Aah DeHavilland
 

Thanks for the Comet memories, I'm not sure that your other recall is quite objective.

The airports on the south coast have all changed enormously since 1977. At EGHH for instance, some of the more significant developments:

- Like at EGHI the old wooden passenger terminal has been replaced
- There is now cat 3 runway lighting and ILS precision approach capability, plus ILS on 08
- The 440m runway extension opened in 1995, giving Hurn a longer runway than Luton, Bristol and Exeter, a big change for Hurn
- At least 4 additional apron stands suitable for B737-800 size aircraft
- Much improved Apron lighting
- New Radar and addition of SSR capability
- At least 6 new hangars, of which 2 wide body capable
- When it comes to traffic, the closure of Tarrant Rushton and the consequent relocation of the Cobham Fleet to Hurn was a milestone
- As has been the replacement of the BAC factory and the odd Tarom B707/An26, with a regular flow of airliners and corporate types using the hangars and engineering capability in the northwest sector.
- As for passenger throughput, since 77 the throughput has actually quadrupled since then.

Is there still much that could be done? Absolutely

Pity about the closure of the college of ATC too.

Great post FF.

In terms of people saying hubs were tried and failed before at BOH this is actually not correct. A hub with a major airline offering HIGH FREQUENCY connecting flights from BOH has NEVER been tried before.

Wow, words fail me.

Thank goodness for that!