Prophead

From your earlier post:

"Grow up, your posts are seeming more and more to be from a member of the junior Manchester Airport spotters society."

I would respectfully suggest that you have no idea about the people on whom you are making assumptive suggestions. I know who 3 of the people are and I would never in a month of Sunday's place that label on them.

Yes, they may well be pro-Manchester in the same was as you are obviously pro-London, but they are all professionals (some with direct involvement of the aviation industry) who do not deserve such derogatory comments.

Should the moderators decide that my comments warrant my being barred/excludes or banned then so be it, but there are times when I can not just sit in the wings are not say anything.

Scottie

That comment was in response to;

Not exactly the debating skills of a professional is it? I notice you stayed firmly in the wings and didn't say anything to that one though.

As for being Pro-London, ha, I can't stand the place. Gatwick is my local airport and it would be better for me, both personally and professionally if it was expanded over LHR. I am however, capable of seeing what makes most sense for the whole of the UK rather than just one city or myself personally.

It would seem I have upset the MAN Mafia:p.

"what makes most sense for the whole of the UK "

Most of the UK is sick of all investment being crowded into the SE TBH

"With an upgraded LHR there is already infrastructure in place to transfer bags from a new terminal into the existing network. There would likely be a rapid transport system to the other terminals and it would be done with relative ease."

:p :p :p just like it's been for the last 50 years eh? NOT

Careful Heathrow Harry. I was told "MANFOD, give the north/south rubbish a rest will you"

Obviously the distortion in infrastructure and transport spending in London compared to other regions - relevant in terms of access to airports for example - is not up for discussion. Some previous contributors were banned for pursuing this topic I believe.

Hopefully, 'Fairdeal Frank' and 'Silverstrata' will re-join this discussion soon.

On the other hand, they may have decided that the last 50-odd posts are just rehashing the same old arguments over and over again and haven't actually added anything new to the discussion. :O

Am I missing something here? A lot of this argument revolves around geography; who is further from what, which part of which nation gets all the finance etc. So, prophead, can you explain how Gatwick would be your local airport, yet your profile claims you are in Berkshire? I was wondering as I haven't seen Gatwick being dragged up the M4!

I haven't lived there for a while now. Just never got round to changing it.

Anyway, here are some recent links to back up the points I have been making.

http://www.cityam.com/287399/easyjet...-fares-and-new

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news...eight-14740999

https://www.thebusinessdesk.com/york...ation-capacity

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....sion-1-9011890

Dave R

You are absolutely correct and I totally agree it is somewhat tedious rehashing known arguments, however I think the Heathrow arguments (and indeed Crossrail2, etc etc etc ), have to be set across the backdrop of what can only be described as the utter chaos continuing on the railway network across The North Of England. This is exemplified by 26 Northern titles all carrying the same banner headline , as well as ITV combining their regional news feed last night so it covered Lincolnshire to Merseyside and Cheshire to the Scottish Borders. A cancelled train in London means one may have to wait 20 mins for the next, a canx train up North and it can be 2 hours before another appears . If you rely on rail for work and that happens two days on the bounce you might be looking for new employment !

Unfortunately I hate to say this but because ITS NOT LONDON it’s not in the London based media pyche. Had the same problems been experienced by London commuters you can bet your bottom dollar Marr, Peston, Newsnight, Pienarrs Politics etc would have been dragging ministers into the studio to explain what the hell they intend to do about fixing it. Heathrow spend is front and centre because The North appears to many of us to be transparent as far as Westminster and The BBC are concerned. The platitudes by Grayling to fix the problem seem empty , blame culture is rampant there is no fix in sight. Contrast this with wholesome support for Heathrow, in Westminster, by comparion it appears to have little scrutiny. The BBC as ever remains oblivious, some might say “compliant” !I won’t bore readers with detail but the frustration is all to obvious with recent rail infrastructure in the North of a paltry £200m, “cue klaxon alert from TheNorthernPowerhouse” although modest projects implemented in The North have been somewhat “half cock” so in effect even this modest amount of money has in effect been wasted. Its like building Heathrow rw3 but without the terminals. When experts have indicated that an extra £200m would fix a particular project and be transformational their arguments are consigned to the bottom draw of a cabinet in Whitehall marked “ to do 2026”, if we are lucky.

The sums invested in The North are pitifully modest but given we are coming from such a low base they would make an incredible differenceThe media up North recognise the shortfall , they are as one, they are furious that we are simply not being heard, the rage is palpable so when Heathrow is seemingly signed off and indeed Crossrail without reference to articles and indeed criticism which has been referenced in The FT, Sunday Times, Daily Telegraph is it no wonder many feel like venting their spleen

Navpi,

We have been told throughout this thread that the railways are good enough to get people from all over the north to MAN. Obviously, as you have outlined, this is not the case and a short shuttle flight, in comfort with bags already checked is a much better option.

I am not sure that the commuters unlucky enough to use Southern Rail to commute into London would agree with your comments about a 20 min max wait. Rail travel seems to be an issue over the whole of the UK. Crossrail is an answer to the overcrowded GWR and the services from Essex. These have, for many years, been massively overcrowded and suffered from cancellations. I used it do this daily and wouldn't wish it on anyone. I have also commuted from Leeds to Manchester and that was also crowded but nothing compared to the daily commute into London and the hell that is the tube.

All these projects, Crossrail, HS2, HS3 etc. are aimed at transforming the railways. Yes, London may be the first in line but I am confident they will all happen. The problem is everybody wants better transport but nobody wants to be inconvenienced by it's construction, nobody wants to pay for it and everybody wants their daily commute to be first in line for upgrading. If we could only get on and build these large projects without endless consultations driven mainly by politics, greed and NIMBYism then we would be a lot further down the line with a national upgrade and be doing it considerably cheaper.

Where did you get from?

To be fair Heathrow's owners have been messed about considerably with the whole third runway fiasco and have had to foot the bill for all the delays and redesign works. After what happened with the Crossrail link I would be cautious in making concrete promises too.

The Western rail link has an outline design but once it goes out to tender this design will be improved and pulled apart by the various contractors and the final layout will likely be different to what they have now.That being said they would be crazy to come out and say there will be no delays. One of the high scoring items by the winning bidder will be how they mitigate the disruption to existing services but at some point there will be a connection made or heavy plant used near the line that requires temporary closures.

Crossrail will take much of the strain off of the existing GWR line so the capacity that will be available then is not necessarily available now.

There is no doubt that, third runway or not, a rail link out west without the need to change at Hayes is needed and long overdue.

It is this attitude that makes it so difficult to build anything in the UK.

If I does not directly benefit me or it may inconvenience me in any way then I am against it.

At some point you or your relatives may need to use it to get to LHR and a few disrupted journeys would be a distant memory.

It's the price of progress and should this attitude have been allowed to dictate large projects in the past, we would not have the tube, the mainline railways or most of the motorways.

The project is a Network Rail project aimed at easing congestion from Paddington out to Hayes and on the M4/M25.

It will allow passengers and staff to travel in from the West without going further into London and back out. It is not some kind of park and ride aimed at people leaving their cars at Slough or Langley Long term whilst jetting off somewhere.

Taken from NR themselves the benefits include:

• Reduce rail journey times between Reading and Heathrow by delivering a new, faster, frequent, more reliable direct train service to Heathrow with four trains per hour in each direction. All trains would call at Reading and Slough and alternate trains at Twyford and Maidenhead. Journey times could be as short as 26 minutes from Reading and 6 to 7 minutes from Slough.
• Significantly improve rail connectivity to Heathrow from the Thames Valley, South Coast, South West, South Wales and West Midlands.
• Provide an alternative form of transport for passengers and the large number of people who work at the airport who are currently travelling by road.
• Ease congestion on roads, including the M4, M3 and M25 resulting in lower CO2 emissions equivalent to approximately 30 million road miles per year.
• Generate economic growth and new jobs across the Thames Valley and surrounding areas.
• Reduce passenger congestion at London Paddington.

I doubt this will result in an increase in passenger number for LHR, It is more about getting those passengers in from the West more efficiently and reducing congestion outside the airport.

"We have been told throughout this thread that the railways are good enough to get people from all over the north to MAN. Obviously, as you have outlined, this is not the case and a short shuttle flight, in comfort with bags already checked is a much better option"

Well you have surpassed yourself phead.

What your paragraph above has got to do with a lack of investment in eg Liverpool Leeds rail is anybodies guess . What I outlined was the appalling state of Northern infastructure structure. Nothing more, Nothing less , The End.

Meanwhile back in the real world Willie Walsh is scathing describing the cost of Heathrow Rw3 as outrageous.

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/305619/heathrow-runway-cost-outrageous-says-iags-willie-walsh

He is quite rightly deluded is he not phead.

Navpi, you said it yourself. On the one hand we are being told we don't need more domestic flights to LHR because the railways provide easy access to MAN from all over the North. Then you come along and tell us the railways in the North are ' in utter chaos' (your words post # 671) . At least keep your arguments consistent. Are the railways good enough to give large parts of the north good access to MAN? Yes or No?

He is trying to protect his business and has been saying he is against it for years. Do keep up.