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-   -   Cardiff-2 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/599772-cardiff-2-a.html)

Jerry123 10th Oct 2017 17:53

The Flybe base at CWL will return to being an all E jet base at the beginning of Summer 18. An E175 aircraft will replace the current Q400 aircraft.
At the moment the schedule for all 3 aircraft is incomplete with gaps on Tuesdays Wednesdays and Saturdays which could accommodate new routes or extra frequencies on current routes or probably both.

Letsflycwl 10th Oct 2017 18:45

That would fit in with the Flybe “charter” rumours for Summer 2018, 2 E95’s and 1 E75 and the gaps in the timetable too

Jerry123 10th Oct 2017 20:07

Yes looking at the gaps then this potential for routes to the med as far as DBV and MLA for the E195s and for southern France maybe northern Italy for the gaps for the E175. Though Saturday afternoon for the E175 I'd expect to be filled with BHD and EDI as they aren't on sale but the gaps for it on Tuesday and Wednesday may get filled with European routes.

MARKEYD 11th Oct 2017 08:44

Is it possible the aircraft might position to other UK airports to operate charters ?
I am thinking for example no aircraft at present to operate SOU -JSI on a Tuesday afternoon , as at the moment the only jet aircraft allocated that is on the SOU - PMI run , just a thought

Jerry123 11th Oct 2017 10:28

I can't see it myself apart from the E175 on Saturday afternoons the gaps aren't large enough. The gaps are like 5 to 6 hours long.

Jerry123 11th Oct 2017 10:33

Cardiff Airport to get a £4 million terminal and car parking upgrade.
The departures area and the executive lounge will be expanded. Retail space will be expanded including a larger WH Smith store a new Costa coffee outlet in departures and one in arrivals.
There will be a new meet and great car park with a dedicated drop off and pick up area close to the terminal and a new car hire centre close to the terminal building.
www.cardiff-airport.com/news/2017/10/11/terminal-and-car-park-investment-unveiled/

Quake 11th Oct 2017 11:59

Do you know who is providing the Finance Jerry? The link didn't seem to mention it.

Jerry123 11th Oct 2017 18:08

Not really but I am guessing the airport owners the Welsh government.

Jerry123 11th Oct 2017 19:33

Have just been told that it's part of a £10 million loan the Welsh government setup a while ago for terminal upgrades.

canberra97 11th Oct 2017 22:49

Are any upgrades to the airbridges included in this planned investment?

Letsflycwl 12th Oct 2017 05:13

With Qatar Airways starting in May you would hope that the end airbridge especially would have some form of revamp.

It’s a shame the other 2 bridges are not lowered to allow them to connect to the BE Embraers and B737’s. Who knows reallly....

Jerry123 12th Oct 2017 05:52


Originally Posted by canberra97 (Post 9922026)
Are any upgrades to the airbridges included in this planned investment?

Not as far as I know. It's not mentioned in the article. Would be nice to have new ones but I don't think it's a priority. The one on stand 7 can connect up to a 787 and A330 but with Qatar it will mean economy passengers going through business class. If Qatar don't want that then I'm guessing it'll be replaced if they don't mind then it'll probably stay. The one on stand 9 is knackered while the one on 10 gets used by Vueling Iberia Express and Thomas Cook.

Jerry123 12th Oct 2017 06:12


Originally Posted by Letsflycwl (Post 9922196)
With Qatar Airways starting in May you would hope that the end airbridge especially would have some form of revamp.

It’s a shame the other 2 bridges are not lowered to allow them to connect to the BE Embraers and B737’s. Who knows reallly....

If Qatar are happy with the economy passengers going through business class then i doubt they'll change the one on stand 7.

I'd be surprised if BE would want to use them even if they were fully adjustable as it slows down their turnaround time's same with Ryanair.
I'd imagine TOM would use 7 if it was fully adjustable and KLM would use 9. The other airline's either can't or already do use 10.
Fully working airbridges are nice but at the moment I don't think they are a necessity for the airport.

Quake 12th Oct 2017 14:28


Originally Posted by Jerry123 (Post 9921774)
Not really but I am guessing the airport owners the Welsh government.

Oh the taxpayer. Historicly the taxpayer has invested and/or bailed out Cardiff airport a number of times and as usuall the debt is socialised (the taxpayer pays) and the profit is privatised, a bit like the railways. Reverse socialism, the western way, makes me want to puke.

Jerry123 12th Oct 2017 15:30

The taxpayer owns MAG and BHX yet no one complains about that.
It was either buy it or see it turned into a housing estate and leave Wales without an airport.

Alvechurch 12th Oct 2017 16:04

No subsidies from the taxpayer for BHX because the owners are:

Ontario Teachers Pension Plan 48.25%
Seven West Midlands Metropolitan Boroughs 49%
Airport Employees 2.75%

LAX_LHR 12th Oct 2017 16:20

And MAN hasn't had a council payout in a long time, it usually goes the other way with MAG paying the council a dividend.

Jerry123 12th Oct 2017 17:25


Originally Posted by Alvechurch (Post 9922843)
No subsidies from the taxpayer for BHX because the owners are:

Ontario Teachers Pension Plan 48.25%
Seven West Midlands Metropolitan Boroughs 49%
Airport Employees 2.75%

And that is what the Welsh government wants CWL to be eventually a public private partnership but to get it to that point they have to invest in it.

Callum Paterson 12th Oct 2017 18:10

I love going to work everyday to keep airports like Prestwick, Cardiff and others afloat. Like others, it makes me want to vomit.

AirGuru 12th Oct 2017 18:55


Originally Posted by Jerry123 (Post 9922229)
If Qatar are happy with the economy passengers going through business class then i doubt they'll change the one on stand 7.

I'd be surprised if BE would want to use them even if they were fully adjustable as it slows down their turnaround time's same with Ryanair.
I'd imagine TOM would use 7 if it was fully adjustable and KLM would use 9. The other airline's either can't or already do use 10.
Fully working airbridges are nice but at the moment I don't think they are a necessity for the airport.

BE don’t need/want airbridge use. Their Embraers already have steps built into them as far as i can remember.

Absurd comments about state support, there are so many state supported elements around you, you really wouldn’t believe how much is these days to some extent.

Jerry123 12th Oct 2017 19:08


Originally Posted by Callum Paterson (Post 9922971)
I love going to work everyday to keep airports like Prestwick, Cardiff and others afloat. Like others, it makes me want to vomit.

Are you Welsh? If not you aren't keeping Cardiff open.

caaardiff 12th Oct 2017 19:49

Airports play a part in growing the economy. If CWL wasn't there, yes many people would simply transfer to using BRS, but with that so may some industries.

The key element is that CWL isn't just there to take people on their holidays, it's there to provide links to businesses across the UK, Europe and the World, which will help grow the Welsh economy. This isn't something that's going to change overnight, but is already happening with the links provided by BE and now QR.

Governments bail out companies all the time, especially in Wales and the Airport is no different to that and key to helping the Welsh economy.
CWL needs to start somewhere, as it was left to deteriorate over the years, both structurally and commercially. People on here seem to expect things to happen overnight and it to become an instant success. Wales and the WG is pitching itself to the world, which will help the Airport grow as inbound tourism and business will grow. It's small steps but BE is continuing to grow and is rumoured to be happy with the success of CWL. Hopefully QR will be the same.
Given the current state of the Airport, the investment is needed. The work that's gone into growing the business once more is slowly paying off, but is not going to create instant profits to do the work that's really required now. It's an investment by the Welsh government, not only in the Airport, but in the economy.

SWBKCB 12th Oct 2017 20:17

Totally agree, just a shame that other regions of the UK don't have access to such funding.

Wycombe 12th Oct 2017 22:23

Noticed an EI A320 (AMS-ORK) heading into CWL wearing 7700 earlier this evening.

bcn_boy 12th Oct 2017 23:11


Originally Posted by Callum Paterson (Post 9922971)
I love going to work everyday to keep airports like Prestwick, Cardiff and others afloat. Like others, it makes me want to vomit.

I don’t like to go to work everyday to clean up your vomit but somebody has to, now drop the dramas, this is an airport forum.

Jerry123 12th Oct 2017 23:46


Originally Posted by Wycombe (Post 9923192)
Noticed an EI A320 (AMS-ORK) heading into CWL wearing 7700 earlier this evening.

Emergency landing. Pilot declared a mayday with fumes in the cabin.

Harry Wayfarers 13th Oct 2017 04:28


Originally Posted by caaardiff (Post 9923079)
Airports play a part in growing the economy. If CWL wasn't there, yes many people would simply transfer to using BRS, but with that so may some industries.

The key element is that CWL isn't just there to take people on their holidays, it's there to provide links to businesses across the UK, Europe and the World, which will help grow the Welsh economy. This isn't something that's going to change overnight, but is already happening with the links provided by BE and now QR.

Governments bail out companies all the time, especially in Wales and the Airport is no different to that and key to helping the Welsh economy.
CWL needs to start somewhere, as it was left to deteriorate over the years, both structurally and commercially. People on here seem to expect things to happen overnight and it to become an instant success. Wales and the WG is pitching itself to the world, which will help the Airport grow as inbound tourism and business will grow. It's small steps but BE is continuing to grow and is rumoured to be happy with the success of CWL. Hopefully QR will be the same.
Given the current state of the Airport, the investment is needed. The work that's gone into growing the business once more is slowly paying off, but is not going to create instant profits to do the work that's really required now. It's an investment by the Welsh government, not only in the Airport, but in the economy.

But CWL isn't serving Wales except for the bottom right hand portion of it, Cardiff, Bridgend, even Newport might be a toss up between CWL and BRS, OK the re-opening of the railway between Barry and Bridgend gives commuters an alternative rail option to get further west in to Wales but BHX serves mid Wales more appropriately and LPL serves north Wales more appropriately than CWL ever shall, if WAG were really interested in opening up Wales to worldwide air travellers surely they'd be doing something about Hawarden.

And as for travellers from Europe and the world, I can assure you that the vast majority of them refer to the British Isles as UK, Britain, or England, let's say their destination is Wrexham, what percentage of them do you think actually recognise that Wrexham is in a country other than England? ... And, yes, they are ignorant!

Jerry123 13th Oct 2017 09:56

Considering that 2/3rds of the population of Wales is in it's catchment area I'd say that it was serving Wales.
As to people thinking Wrexham was in England then that is all about awareness and promoting Wales through events like the Champions League final and attracting airlines like Qatar.
I also believe that the Welsh government are looking at other intra Wales routes. Whether that includes Hawarden I don't know.

supermarine 13th Oct 2017 10:53

Ignore foggy, he has an axe to grind regarding CWL for some reason.

Harry Wayfarers 13th Oct 2017 11:09

Think what you like, I had a great few years working at CWL looking out of the window to learn that 'Car Park' in Welsh is 'Parc Car' :)

A previous post, as do so many, referred to BRS as the competitor to serve Wales other than CWL, how the hell does BRS serve Aberporth, Aberystwyth, Pwlheli and Wrexham, to name but four, any better than CWL does when the truth is that neither of them serve these locations adequately ... Might as well say that CWL & BRS serve Birmingham and the Black Country.


As to people thinking Wrexham was in England then that is all about awareness and promoting Wales through events like the Champions League final and attracting airlines like Qatar.
So people travelling to/from Wrexham are going to route via CWL rather than via BHX or MAN? ... Yeah, sure they are!

Jerry123 13th Oct 2017 13:54

Firstly I never said that people traveling to and from Wrexham would go via CWL i said that awareness of Wales will help people know the difference and having a national airport even if it's in the south will help with that.
Do you think that the Champions League final would've come to Wales if Cardiff Airport didn't exist? Yes BRS BHX and MAN and even Heathrow all serve Wales in their own way but the problem with those airports is they aren't IN Wales they are in England. Wales is a country so having it's OWN airport helps promote it and it's economy.

yeo valley 13th Oct 2017 15:19

The 4 airports mentioned must be a worry to CWL. Rather than just throw money at routes and things in general,i think management of CWL sit down and work out where they not doing things right. If things were correct in the general layout of services and airport layout then given time the pax will return to cwl. Whatever service anyone offers if its a good service then ppl will use it.

Jerry123 13th Oct 2017 17:30

The 4 airports mentioned are always going to take passengers off CWL but with the right investment and airlines CWL can be a viable airport for the country. Since the Welsh government have taken over it is recovering. Flybe do seem to be developing a good base and are probably the right airline for the airport. Vueling are established and slowy adding flights and TOM and TCX continue to plod along steadily and of course Qatar Airways start next year. Only thing to question is Ryanairs intentions. The airport has a lot to do but is going in the right direction.

Harry Wayfarers 13th Oct 2017 20:55


The 4 airports mentioned are always going to take passengers off CWL but with the right investment and airlines CWL can be a viable airport for the country.
First of all I think the point is that CWL should be trying to take passengers away from the other 4 and not vice versa whilst suggesting that CWL can be a viable airport for Wales is similar to suggesting that DUB can be a viable airport for Ireland.

Then why does Ireland also have international airports in SNN and ORK to name but two, never mind the regional airports, yes DUB is a viable airport for Ireland but, if it didn't have connecting flights, it can only serve a portion oif Ireland much the same as CWL that, besides Holyhead, doesn't have connecting flights and can only serve a portion of Wales.

If only Air Wales had stuck with Do228's then they might still be going, allbeit on minimal profits, providing puddle jumper services around the airports of Wales!

Jerry123 14th Oct 2017 04:04


Originally Posted by Harry Wayfarers (Post 9924313)
First of all I think the point is that CWL should be trying to take passengers away from the other 4 and not vice versa whilst suggesting that CWL can be a viable airport for Wales is similar to suggesting that DUB can be a viable airport for Ireland.

Then why does Ireland also have international airports in SNN and ORK to name but two, never mind the regional airports, yes DUB is a viable airport for Ireland but, if it didn't have connecting flights, it can only serve a portion oif Ireland much the same as CWL that, besides Holyhead, doesn't have connecting flights and can only serve a portion of Wales.

If only Air Wales had stuck with Do228's then they might still be going, allbeit on minimal profits, providing puddle jumper services around the airports of Wales!

Wales and Ireland have completely different demographics and Ireland is much bigger geographically also Ireland has a big advantage over Wales. Firstly it's an independent country secondly it has a large amount of inbound American tourism thirdly it's major airport is TATL hub and fourthly it has a larger awareness around the world than Wales.

Harry Wayfarers 14th Oct 2017 06:18


Originally Posted by Jerry123 (Post 9924503)
Wales and Ireland have completely different demographics and Ireland is much bigger geographically also Ireland has a big advantage over Wales. Firstly it's an independent country secondly it has a large amount of inbound American tourism thirdly it's major airport is TATL hub and fourthly it has a larger awareness around the world than Wales.

Is there anywhere that anyone may make a comparison with Wales where the response won't be a disagreement, to the effect, "But we're different"?

How are Cardiff Aviation doing, are they paying their staff and their rent yet or are monies still being written off by the Welsh government?

Anodyne 14th Oct 2017 07:48


Originally Posted by Jerry123 (Post 9923042)
Are you Welsh? If not you aren't keeping Cardiff open.

Actually not sure thats true. The block grant that funds the WAG is paid for out of UK national taxation, and the spend per head is greater in each of the devolved areas than it is in England.
As somebody who works at CWL I hope it does well, but can quite understand a degree of antipathy from, say a Bristol airport worker, who sees some of their tax bill fund a competitor that may negatively impact their own job security.
I think that colleagues and supporters of CWL should be careful about an apparent feeling of 'entitlement' to external funding that isn't available elsewhere.

inOban 14th Oct 2017 08:05

But it up to the democratically elected WAG as to where it spends its allocation. And, since it uses a form of proportional representation, it's more democratically elected than Westminster. I'm not taking sides here on whether the money would be better spent elsewhere.

Harry Wayfarers 14th Oct 2017 08:06


Originally Posted by Anodyne (Post 9924608)
Actually not sure thats true. The block grant that funds the WAG is paid for out of UK national taxation, and the spend per head is greater in each of the devolved areas than it is in England.
As somebody who works at CWL I hope it does well, but can quite understand a degree of antipathy from, say a Bristol airport worker, who sees some of their tax bill fund a competitor that may negatively impact their own job security.
I think that colleagues and supporters of CWL should be careful about an apparent feeling of 'entitlement' to external funding that isn't available elsewhere.

I'm not Welsh but I owned a house with a CF62 postcode for 23 years ... It's not just the Welsh that pay their taxes in Wales!

SWBKCB 14th Oct 2017 09:20

A couple of points.

Anodyne was responding to the comment "Are you Welsh? If not you aren't keeping Cardiff open." Wales isn't self-supporting by way of revenue, so if you're paying tax in the UK you are indirectly supporting CWL.

The other point is that CWL is benefiting from support from the Welsh Govt which isn't available to other airports in the UK. An issue of fairness here, particularly as CWL is competing with other airports.


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