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Possibly the resurfacing of runway 25R.

25R is dug up right now

25L is in use, enjoy the taxi around BER to SXF

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I came out of Schonefeld as self-loading freight yesterday. A hell-hole for Pax.

Two years ago, Easyjet passengers including me were herded into a too-small room before leaving for the bus to plane. No loos, inadequate seating, no PA, no information, at least half hour wait.

Yesterday:
Easyjet passengers were herded into a too-small room before leaving for bus to plane. No loos, inadequate seating, no PA, no information, at least half hour wait.

The shadow of the DDR and the Stasi still hangs over Schonefeld. Lots of in-your-face glitter for duty-free, but a **** experience.

Have to agree, it's a complete hell hole. Security - 2 lanes and long queues. Walk to gate not enough time for the DF. Into some sheep pen at the gate, pools of water, couple of rows of seats, stifling heat and squeezed in punters.

Stats for 2015 are out. Tegel and Schonefeld airports grew by a combined 5.6 %
BER has a design capacity of 27 million pax while the two existing airports saw over 29.5 million pax
http://adv.aero/service/downloadbibliothek/

A planned opening date of October 2017 may not be met
http://www.dw.com/en/berlins-new-air...lay/a-19107260

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Stats for 2015 are out. Tegel and Schonefeld airports grew by a combined 5.6 %
BER has a design capacity of 27 million pax while the two existing airports saw over 29.5 million pax

A new standalone LCC terminal is now planned for the new BER. That should increase capacity by a few million.

Still, far from ideal.

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Stats for 2015 are out. Tegel and Schonefeld airports grew by a combined 5.6 %
BER has a design capacity of 27 million pax while the two existing airports saw over 29.5 million pax

I thought building for yesterday was a trait of the UK government, where infrastructure is concerned. Good to see we're not alone in building too little, too late!!

It would almost appear as if Berlin has gone from 3 perfectly functioning airports, each filling a role/niche and each with a role to play in the city's future... To two over-stressed, over-capacity, under-invested airports which by all accounts are in a complete state right now due to the fact that they are struggling to cope... Oh and lets not forget the outrageous white elephant which itself seems to have very little place in Berlin's future, be it short term from which it will be completely absent, or long term where it will probably need immediate expansion. Expanding Tegel probably doesn't seem like such a bad idea now

Sounds like a little competition is required.

Berlin Airports controlled 3 airports:
Tempelhof - a business or city airport which could have survived and operated in the London City commuter niche. Unfortunately, it has already CLOSED.
Tegel - home to Air Berlin, and regional base for Lufthansa Group. BURSTING with little new investment due to the 'imminent' opening of BER.
Schonefeld - former GDR building which turned into a LCC hub for Easyjet and Ryanair (and previously Germanwings). BURSTING with little new investment.

And of course, the sleeping White Elephant.

With private competition rather than local political interference and a monopoly position, Berlin like London could have had 3 independent competing airports offering differing products for alternative markets. Alas only 2 airports remain, but if Berlin Airports were forced to sell Tegel to a private operator, the cash gained from the sale may eventually push them to finish and open BER.

BER would then become a hub for network carriers, offering long-haul connections.
A natural home for Air Berlin and LH group.
TXL would then remain open, run by a new owner and offer an alternative product focussed on short-medium haul routes.
As to which airport would become the base for easyJet, Ryanair, Norwegian etc would be subject to competing commercial agreements. As is the case with LHR, LGW, STN and LTN.

I'm amazed that free market competition can still be stifled within an EU country.
But then again with ADP controlling all Paris Airports, ANA controlling all Portuguese airports, AENA controlling all Spanish airports, perhaps a free market isn't what Europe is about these days. Little seems to have changed from the days of the GDR.

I'm not totally convinced by the idea that competing airports is the panacea for all ill - if anything it drives costs down, largely through under staffing and an over reliance on the "shopping experience".

I can't see that the competing airports in Southeast England has done a great deal to improve passenger satisfaction, or to resolve the capacity problem there.

BER is undoubtedly a disaster, but I can't see that breaking the monopoly of ownership / operation would have made a fat lot of difference - better planning (something that in general Germany is good at) would have done the trick.

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Competition (sic) between airports is nonsense, even in southeast England. It has done nothing to provide adequate capacity, so airports specialise rather than compete. Carriers compete (up to a point), airports don't.

LHR specialises in legacy carriers, short and longhaul routes, cargo, premium pax that the carriers all crave (so are prepared to pay millions for a slot pair);

LTN specialises in no frills carriers, holiday flights and charters, mostly shorthaul;

STN specialises in no frills carriers, holiday flights, charters, mostly shorthaul, and cargo ;

LCY is a niche airport mainly serving the London business areas (The City and Canary Wharf), all shorthaul except JFK.

LGW is a mixture of the above and functions as LHR's waiting room.

The result is almost no competition, the airport used depends on type of carrier, type of journey and destination. For real competition to exist, there needs to be excess capacity so that supply exceeds demand, giving punters genuine choice.

This is clearly not the case in London, nor would it be in Berlin. Note the comments about TXL becoming a home for no frills carriers under Berlin "competition", it sounds more like specialisation.

"competition" is also an illusion in UK railways, and in the UK gas and electricity markets. Also, before getting all "gung-ho" about privatisation, please be aware that privatisated airports are very much the exception worldwide. Maybe ask why this is the case.

BER already has a LCC Pier if it ever opens.

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BER already has a LCC Pier if it ever opens.

And they will soon start building a standalone LCC terminal.

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Originally Posted by 1sky (Post 9309732)

And they will soon start building a standalone LCC terminal.

Do you know where? Close to the new terminal or maybe just using a part of the old Schönefeld terminal?

Now seems that Berlin's airport is unlikely to open before 2019
BER now unlikely to open before 2019 - Business Traveller

Probably the biggest embarrassment in Germany since the Nazi's

Is this airport being built in Latin America?

Just passed by a few days ago and seems that terminal B is being quite extensively refurbished...

Well 2018 is the new target

Just passed through SXF - few observations:
Work on terminal B has been completed - it is now more spacious - nothing earth shaking but definite improvement.
Terminal C is now actively pushed as a fast lane (ie hand baggage only) checkpoint. Seems relatively efficient but I am under the impression that staff has been reassigned from terminal A. Not sure that the overall capacity has really changed that much.
Some landscaping work in progress in front of the terminals - Not sure what is is about
No visible work on or in BER buildings

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Now seems that Berlin's airport is unlikely to open before 2019
BER now unlikely to open before 2019 - Business Traveller

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Probably the biggest embarrassment in Germany since the Nazi's

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Turning surreal...

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Is this airport being built in Latin America?

We in the UK shouldn't crow, this fiasco pales into insignificance when compared to the still unresolved 50 year saga of Heathrow expansion!

However when we did finally build T5, it went quite well really. It's especially bad for Germany's reputation at a time when Siemens is also having problems with trains.

The farce continues

I don't understand why though.

Like if there is so much wrong, and this was all acknowledged, and it being Germany, the fact these issues haven't been solved is just bizzare.

I would agree that the whole thing is really beyond surreal.

Ok there have are "safety" issues with whatever has been built initially. After Dusseldorf 96 I guess it is a fairly sensitive matter... I can even accept that there are missing blueprints and that work was subpar. But there doesn't seem to be clear understanding of what is really happening (at least not being communicated).

Just realized BER is in fact in business !

http://i.imgur.com/IYIDxv6.jpg

You can already use the parking facilites there... :)

Better than nothing I guess...

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Like if there is so much wrong, and this was all acknowledged, and it being Germany, the fact these issues haven't been solved is just bizzare.

Germany's reputation for steely-eyed efficiency is rather over-rated.

Barling Magna
Bit like the British one for over selling and under delivering in my experience of UK PLC. :E

Regards
Mr Mac

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Bit like the British one for over selling and under delivering in my experience of UK PLC.

True, but we're talking about the Germans here.

Barling Magna
True, and the Germans have had other large capital project over run significantly before, I remember the canal link from Rhine to Danube was years late but it was completed eventually. My point is that it at least was built, when you compare with our Heathrow runway debacle where we are no nearer starting the bulldozers then we were 5 years ago. I wait with bated breath to see what happens with HS2 the train set nobody but the govt seems to want.

Regards
Mr Mac

I believe that some years ago a new standard contract was drawn up for major projects. That is why HS1 and, so far, Crosstalk, were/are on time and budget. The principle of HS2 is correct; the route and specification is wrong.

inOban
Final account is nowhere near being agreed on Cross Rail talking to the people compiling it, and currently they have considerable problems with M&E with more cable being ripped out than is going in. However as this is yet another London vanity project I suspect costs will be fudged and pushed down the road, and released on obscure day or under a bigger story and when they think we will all have forgotten about it. ;)

Regards
Mr Mac

I'm well aware of these issues. If I'm right, the cost will fall on the contractors, but we'll see.

Some infrastructure projects do work - Reading Station revamp was over £ 500 million but came in a year early and under budget for example

Exactly. I believe the contract encourages contractors to work smart and work together. The new Queensferry crossing may be late because of last winter's weather, but I think it's on budget.

Could I very gently suggest moving the discussion to Berlin rather than the more general topic of project management of large pieces of infrastructure construction ?

Agree. I think we are suggesting that the UK has now developed a project management structure which seems to work better than Germany's.

Is there any truth in the rumour that because of ever increasing passenger numbers Tegel will have to remain open and in fact be expanded?

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BER in business
Just realized BER is in fact in business !

It's called Schonefeld, IIRC.

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Is there any truth in the rumour that because of ever increasing passenger numbers Tegel will have to remain open and in fact be expanded?

Probably, it should have been done in the first place.

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Is there any truth in the rumour that because of ever increasing passenger numbers Tegel will have to remain open and in fact be expanded?

Robin757 - I've seen talk about Schoenefeld possibly reamining open because BER won't be able to cope with both the current Berlin airports being closed, but I've never heard anything about Tegel remaining open and even being expanded. Do you happen to have a source for this (even if it is in German) ?