Like Many airlines bmibaby are having it tough and now with the parent company Lufthansa significantly committed with other projects it would seem logical that anything outside of the hub and spoke type operation would be disposed of. Heathrow is the only part of the bmi group that LH is interested in the long term.

I think that question is when rather than if baby will be sold and it has been debated at length on the forum. I did a little analysis and this is what I found;

Out of a total of 63 routes that Bmibaby will or have operated this year (includes winter summer etc)
41 of these have 1 competitor
11 of these have 2 competitors
8 of these routes have 3 or more competitors

11 routes they compete with Ryanair
3 routes hey compete with Jet2
12 routes they compete with Easyjet
10 routes they compete with Flybe

And the outlook;
Easyjet have long terms aspirations at Manchester, Are Jet 2 likely to expand even further there are a result of Ryanair going into Leeds with a base. Will Manchester numbers suffer due to volume of Ryanair flights going from the surrounding airports?

At Birmingham with Ryanair in there with a base it cant be easy for Baby as they compete on many routes and this can only intensify. Flybe will continue to grow with a unique offering of frequent flight on thin routes eg Glasgow Edinburgh baby already hurting ?

Cardiff seems to be quite small as a base, and is quite challenged by the strength of Bristol not to mention that Flybe may have longer terms plans for the airport.??

Finally, East Midlands the home of the bmi group, will this base be sustainable long term with Ryanair and Easyjet both serving the airport. With a growing Birmingham up the road?

It is hard to see who might want bmibaby, Ryanair, Easyjet, Flybe. Would Ryanair want to go back to Cardiff with 738s? Would they want to buy business at Birmingham or East Midlands? and would they sign up for a base at Manchester???

Easyjet might be a candidate but again given that they operate on many of the existing routes at the key bases would they see value in such a purchase.

Or Perhaps Flybe is the one?? Expansion at some existing bases, trim back at a few others?

Sorry this seems like a negative post but thats how I see it. Finally, does any one forsee that Belfast East Midlands will survive with Baby now that Ryanair is going to 3 rotations a day on BHD EMA???

Cheekyvisual
 

Baby sees itself less dead in the water more in a holding pattern running the QRH hoping to stay alive until they can work out how to !

Na lad thee as it all wrong,

First off there are more than 3 aircraft(due) to go back in the 1st half of 2010 (twice as many)

Second If you think they can launch a flying program (2010) with LH all over them just as a fishing trip your having a laugh, not sure what you'll make of the new routes for both this winter (yet to be announced) and 4+ new MED routes for 2010

Non of which means it might not be sold/merged and so on

Inkjet I hope you are right and know a lot I don't. But the feeling I get from mates at baby is they are very worried about their jobs going into the winter.

cheeky
 

I can understand that and its not just in baby or bmi either!!

September should (hopefully) bring much needed clarification of the future direction of the various elements of the group mainline/baby/regional/cargo/engineering

Its only a few days to September and the Sun is out on a bank holiday week end and i've got it off so it doesn't seem all bad with the world:cool:

Could Jet2 have an interest?

Summer 2010
 

CheekyVisual

I understand to a point the logic behind what you have stated as desparate times need desparate measures and it is jobs at risk but
would this the right way to go about it?

As it stands the baby June schedule requires 19 aircraft and if there
is no intention of increasing the fleet, I just can't understand how
these flights were released at the times stated unless LH have
authorised it or a couple of the domestics are changing to BMIR.

I would not be happy if I had booked my summer 2010 holiday but
without me knowing that there was a good chance that the flight
is likely to be re-timed or cancelled due to some brinkmanship going
on behind the scenes.

To Inkjet or CV - are they 500's or 300's the ones where the leases
are up next year?

aidoair

I flew baby flight only last year BHX-PMI and was amazed as over
half the flight seemed to have Thomas Cook baggage labels.

Pete

19 Aircraft
 

Could it be that bmibaby may use a couple of A319s - A321s from mainline like they did last summer. If bookings and load factos from this summer are anything to go by, at least on the sun routes then i can see it being an option. One of the reasons why they never did this, this season was because of a predicted lack of bookings to these destinations. Well bmibaby among most other UK airlines have been proven wrong and the flights have been almost as popular as ever, hence they increased to two daily during the peak months to AGP, PMI and even FAO.


Aidoair :ok:

If you look at it through rose tinted glass half full spectacles then yes there is potential to use mainline aircraft next summer should the schedule and bookings demand it. Like everyone else I don't know how strong the bookings are for next summer at this stage and that will play a huge part in the decisions to be made. So provided there are no more fleet reductions or redundancies at baby (not out of the question - check the £170m predicted loss!) mainline aircraft could join the fleet.

The real problem is that aircraft utilisation this year is below LCC requirements with the med heavy schedule. Couple that with increasing fuel price and low yield market place things don't look that rosy going forward no matter what the outlook in the papers is. Unemployment is still rising, there is a general tightening of belts so those that aren't staycationing in the rain are only flying when the flights are very very cheap. So busy flights don't equal profit. Hard winter ahead for everyone in aviation if the banks stay closed.

baby bin credit & debit card charges
 

Just had a e-mail from baby to say that there are no credit card or debit card charges for bookings in the next 7 days, more importantly they seem to have opened up a new front with EZY & FR on ski routes with skis or snowboards going for free ie no sports goods charges, this also applies to Malaga for the Sierra Nevada ski area, how long before people start packing their clothes in ski bags for Summer holidays???

"easyJet cuts East Mids flights, but we're here to stay, baby!"
 

We're staying put, baby!
easyJet withdraw flights from East Midlands Airport but we're here to stay.

Today, easyJet has announced that it will soon be withdrawing all flights from East Midlands Airport, but we want to reassure our customers that we are here to stay!

In fact here at bmibaby HQ we are actually adding extra flights within the next 48 hours across our destinations from East Midlands Airport to help passengers in the region who might be affected by easyJet's departure.

So don't worry about your next holiday, in fact this week's offer where you pay no credit or debit card charges on any flight means now is a great time to book!

Press release http://links.bmibabyemail.com/ctt?kn=6&m=33985533&r=MjgxMzc1NDgyMQS2&b=2&j=NTc1MzE2MzMS1&m t=1&rt=0

Well September 09 will i suspect go down as a turning point in the fortunes of bmibaby, Tiny has a real spring in its step just now and whilst the loss of Easy at EMA is a sad day for all it should be a warning for not just the airports but also the Goverment that they are pratting with the most mobile of job creators in their short sighted enviromental tax policies, it matters not whether the aircraft are based here or in Malaga from an airlines point of view, but guess what? which country gets the taxes and employment APD aside!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Nulabour are muppets and Camroooon is a Puppet

One has to ask what keeps us here? its not the surf or the weather

BBC East Midlands News
 

3 more aircraft
8 new routes
expansion of existing routes
bookable tomorrow

Mike

NEW ROUTES - 3 EXTRA AIRCRAFT - 2872 extra flights next year - 350,000 extra pax
 

bmibaby have announced new routes to
Sardinia,
Barcelona,
Corsica,
Cork,
Croatia,
Malta,
Newquay
Venice

Basing an extra 3 aircraft at EMA, flights start between December and May bringing their total aircraft number to 8 by May 2010, flights on sale on Wednesday 9th September

As well as extra flights to popular destinations such as
Malaga
Palma
Alicante
Faro
Prague
Nice

All bookable by tomorrow, so will know exactly how many extra flights then

Something tells me Ryanair aren't wanting to expand at EMA...

Well done to BMIBaby!:ok:

This is absolutely great news and i for one am really pleased!!! :ok:

However not to be too negative, hopefully this increase here at EMA won't see too much of a reduction at any of their other bases.

Again well done baby!!! :ok:

Something also tells me that Baby dont want to expand at CWL....been waiting for a 4th based aircraft for ages!

The taffys continue to cross the bridge to BRS to reach some of the destinations Baby are announcing at EMA!

The gap left by U2 was to good to be true for BMIBaby, especially with Ryanair seeming reluctant to move in.

I wonder if these extra aircraft are going to be leased or are coming from LH? If they are coming from LH then possibility of an extra aircraft at CWL?

This is obviously and instant reaction from Eazy pulling out of EMA and possibly expansion at other bases?

This is excellent news for bmibaby. I presume they are getting extra aircraft and not reducing numbers at airports elsewhere?!?

Who knows whats going to happen the main way to cut down costs would be to pool resources (looking outside picture CWL-FRA iso BRS-FRA) One base better deal possibly.

I recently heard that WW recruited flight deck for a fourth a/c at CWL and then when it didn't happen they were stuck at either EMA or BHX for a couple of months.

WW has a brand to keep at CWL and unless something gets done BE will probably come out on top. Extra a/c may allow the oppourtunity for the weekend breaks that CWL is lacking that the BRS carriers have plus one or two new routes.

It all comes down to how many a/c are coming over/being leased.

Well rumour has it Ibiza to return to CWL and in S10 and routes to keep all 3 a/c busy are being sold.

There are a few B737.700's flying around looking for lease and sale at the moment, ex SkyEurope, Sterling, easyJet aircraft, all available, so maybe WW's future fleet could be with them for the expansion at EMA?

Does WW not own it's current fleet outright? Similar to Jet2?

No the leasing companies do......

LH has a few 733 and 735, are all of these part of the main LH fleet or are they with the likes of Germanwings and other airlines taken over/merged with LH?

A figure i heared was a total of up to 6 aircraft to go to WW but that was once again on the grapevine from somone who had been talking to the guys and girls up at EMA.

Lufty have 63 x 737 500's and 300's. These are all in their mainline fleet and I believe are owned outright.

Lufty are starting to park some of these aircraft, so they'd be good candidates for baby ...

EMA new routes !
 

Well the routes have gone on sale today. There's some decent frequency on most of them and a couple with just a weekly flight but that makes sense on the target market they are aiming those flights to. The med routes have also been increased and Malaga is even upto 3x daily one a saturday! So so far looking good baby! ;)

:ok:

well one way to cut cost is to send the aircraft owned outright over to WW when the leases are due to run out. This may have been the plan with a few of the WW fleet going back to lessors last year.

Reduce fleet size while we were in recession and then transfer the LH fleet over once it starts to pick up/ or ideal oppourtunity.

Is there likely to be any more good news? I heared the IBZ has now dissapeared from CWL route offering before it even goes on sale.

Only if they are QC's Please OliWW !!!!!

Cabin crew recruitment ???
 

With the new routes coming at East Midlands, does that mean there will be new vacancies for cabin crew there ??????

Hey

Can anyone tell me what the total number of aircraft based at each airport are to be for S10?

Thanks

Dont get too carried away with all this talk of LH 73's moving to WW. There is plenty of talk aound of LH entering talks with the likes of BA, VS, EY and other to sell the bmi group.

You may be more on th ebutton considering what any of these airlines might want to do with WW.

egnxema
 

Whilst what you say is correct, i suspect that many of the baby crews feel far more secure about their futures this weekend, for mainline and regional they know there is probably more blood shed to come! whilst i wish them well for the future, some of the comments from the mainline community about, with LH we will be rid of LoCo & baby ring very shallow, how ironic if the shake out from this was that LH ended up owning baby, but sold moved on striped mainline and regional? as for regional i would not like to be in the manager shoes in ABZ what ever happens whether it be LH or Flybe i can't see a remote operation continuing give current losses

Bmi Baby
 

Why is there no bmibaby flights into Ire west Knock on Tue sept 15th and only one on wed 16th from manchester?

Knock
 

airnoc

The simple answer - none scheduled to operate in the timetable.

BHX - NOC on Tuesdays finished last week I think and so has
the Wednesday. This is further reduced in winter when the
Saturday service stops until April.

BHX - NOC only goes daily on 13/7/10.

The Manchester schedule shows that the Tuesday service
stops for a few weeks but re-starts at the end of the month.

No idea why that would be but that how it reads in the timetable.

BHX-NOC figures were very good in August at 7596 or 123 per
flight but on the whole they have been reducing and as the
summer holidays have ended the Tue & Wed service have been
chopped already.

By the end of September it is not only Knock from BHX that is
reduced but Barcelona ends and Nice sees frequency cuts.

A tad surprised re BCN especially as this winter FR have cut REU
leaving just Girona at four a week and also the possibility of easyjet
cutting BCN from EMA in the new year.

Pete

Out of interest, is bmibaby intending to launch a new route to Jersey next summer? Looking at the schedule, there is a gap between the arrival and departure times of the East Midlands aircraft on Mondays, Fridays and Saturdays, which suggests that the aircraft could operate a ‘W’ pattern of some sort. The 2.55 available is not currently a long enough period to operate another route considering turnaround and flight times, but obviously such times can alter. Is it perhaps a return for the short-lived Birmingham route of a few years back or simply an error?

I also noticed this, at first i thought it was going to be a 'W' route to and from CWL like they have operated in the past, but that route seems to be operating with their own based aircraft. Be good if its another new route to the island, but at the minute its looking likely to be an error / schedule re-timing ? ? ?

JER Timings
 

I would think the only thing (if any) this would indicate is the re-introduction of the BHX service. This was introduced a few years back and was cut after about a year (I guess) of operation.

As we all know JER is not a base for WW, and they do not operate flights between two non-bases: i.e. all flights either arrive or depart at MAN, EMA, CWL or BHX. I think this has been the case throughout their history and I do not see this changing without them spotting a gaping hole in the market. And to be honest, from here everything looks pretty well covered: BE would have taken care of any potential route long before WW would have noticed.

So yes, my bet is scheduling error: ie the pax who book the flight will get an all too familiar 'Schedule Change' email from WW. If not, the reintroduction of a BHX service is a possibility, pax numbers were fairly good last time round.