On several occasions in PEN, HKG, TPE etc I have held or even diverted because I was not happy to ATTEMP a landing in the wx. On one occasion in PEN another A/c ( SQ ) knew I was holding but chose to fly through the red returns on the radar and land!! amazing skill level that.
Now if your saying Thai ATC should improve their wx reporting skills or their ability to tell the Pilot's clearly ( in English ) what the wx is doing, then yes I agree it would help.

Also GROOVING of the Phuket runway must be done.
At the end of the day the Captain makes a decision. ( or not )

Shiftpattern,

Very moving and no doubt very true and accurate. However, even if you have the b*lls to say NO it's fairly obvious that many do not and therein lies the root of the problem in most of Asia.

Therefore why does it take such an accident before this kind of information comes out in public? Will you give evidence to the enquiry? Even if that means your job as it undoubtedly would, in the kind of environment you describe.

I can see your zeal in trying to improve standards but IMHO it is misplaced. The only thing that gets results when things are that bad is adverse publicity - loads of it. Unfortunately they now have plenty of it but watch the snakes run for cover!

Compressor stalls go hand in hand with wing stall on the DC-9/MD80, I'm sure the DFDR will sort out the timing

Stupidity level was more amazing I think! :eek:

Limited Numbder of Survivors
 

Having looked at the video shot by the Swedish tourist it is not clear as to why such a high number of the passengers did not survive this accident. The aircraft itself does not appear as badly damaged as some where more have got out...If sadly only two of the FAs survived maybe this is why, they may have course have perished trying to assist the passengers on this plane. I wonder if those who survived were just plain luck, or did they pay more attention to the safety demo. I gather the Swedish guys were sat by the exits....luckily for them.

about a week ago during approach into TPE twr gave us a MICROBURST ALERT at about 900ft, without hesitation I went around,to my surprise the guys behind decided to continue,go figure

I will have to correct my previous information about the Phuket captain's medical. It had been revoked earlier this year, but he was said to be medically 'legal' again by the time of last Sunday's accident. My apologies.

View from the ground,

My educated guess from looking at the Swedish video, is that the survivors were mainly in the part of the aircraft, the back, that didn't have to absorb the energy of the crash at whatever speed they were doing. Similar to the SQ crash in taipei, where the lower deck of the 747 acted as a crumple zone in such a way that the cockpit and the upper deck, as well as the rear lower deck produced most of the survivors.

The news reports that many of the dead will need to be identified by DNA, presumably the fire just starting on the front end of the aircraft in the video would go on to consume part of it.

One wonders how many of the dead were trapped or unconscious in the wreckage before the fire started, and what effect a more efficient fire service response would have had on the number of survivors.

I'd love an email for the a Journo @ the Bangkok post. (having worked @ 1-2-G0 some years back), Udom really needs to have his doors closed.

Numerous comments reflected about the "belated" response of the fire/crash rescue trucks.

From the mobile phone video footage taken by a survivor it was apparent that visibility was poor in moderate rain and ground fog. So, if you were the driver of a rescue vehicle, would YOU instantly know where to go if you couldn't see the smoke from the wreckage, if you couldn't see any wreckage on the runway? :confused:

My initial post has gone walkabout also

I have gotten the impression that most of the survivors were from the mid section of the plane, from the footage the fire seemed to take hold first at the rear.

Glueball,

One runway, direction of use known, big bang, drive down runway in direction of use as a first response perhaps (how long would that take, 30secs? 1 minute?) no longer than it would take to open the overwing emergency exits and leg it to the runway I think, so one would expect them to be there at least at about the time the Swedes filming had started.

By crossreferencing the manifest and a MD80 seat plan, all the survivors were sitting in rows 18-29, with the exception of a passenger who was in 6A.

No Surprise At All
 

For the many of us who have worked at OX in the past this accident is no surprise at all, but still saddens us to the core.Compounding this tragedy is the underlying feeling that this will not be their last, and that the authorities will not take the hard decisions to force OX to follow the required safety practices followed in most of aviation.Those of us in the know were shocked to learn that Capt xxxxx was the CP.Rest his poor soul.I pray that some sort of good comes out of this horrible event Reverend.

So, what caused this prang?...

let's see now...

third world country, third world standards...

chief pilot had 14 years airline experience only!!...

let me say that again...14 years airline experience only!!

Says it all really, doesn't it?

There is experience and getting older as the world passes you by! I'll leave the individual alone as I have no firsthand knowledge of him. I do know that '14 Years experience' can be as much use as a chocolate fire guard. Example: The average Scandanavian Pilot sees more weather in a week than a domestic Aussie Pilot sees in his career. So if there can be such a disparity in 'real' experience how do airlines get around it? They train and examine to a standard.

Performance = Ability + Training + Exposure.

The performance is affected by external pressures, national and coorporate cultures etc etc. Sadly a great number of cultures do not train to a standard that allows the crews to deal with anything out of the ordinary. Some guys, from all over the world, will not stand up and be counted when things go awry. Most of the time they get away with it but sometimes...

Amos, would you prefer to be driven to work in fog by a below average taxi driver that had never seen fog before but had been driving for 14 years or by the world's safest 1 year experience driving champion after he had just completed a 6 week 'fog driving' course. One has experience, the other has skill and exposure. Go and look up 'experience' in the dictionary, you won't find capability anywhere in the description.

Oh and to answer your question as to what caused the accident. I'd bet my mortgage on a commander that took an unsafe decision to try and land in awful weather and then didn't have the skill to get away with it. Seems like your 'experienced' guy was briefly the 'old and bold' pilot' of legend!

Just as long as you didn't say he was a figjam!

We all know Thai ATC had nothing to do with it. Out of interest, anyone know when say, Frankfurt, would close for crap weather and make the decision for you? I know movements get suspended for lightning risk but what about max windspeed. When do even the ground pounders shut up shop?

AFAIK airfield only close if they can't provide the service. Snow on runways - or snowploughs clearing runways would be an example. Manchester closed early this year in very high winds - not directly because of the winds (that's the pilot's call), but because of debris bown onto the runways by the winds, and vehicles trying to clear it off.

Short and to the point?
 

First time I've seen this comment from the Phuket Gazette:

"At a press conference at the Airports Of Thailand office about 9 pm, Phuket Airport Director Sq Ldr Pornchai Eua-aree said the crash was the result of a “mis-approach” landing, after which the pilot tried to regain enough speed to take off again – but failed."

They later said all ATC's had been assigned desk duty as they all saw the crash and were very distressed.

Which just goes to prove what I've been saying!...

third world countries have third world standards!!...

which are rather poor!!!