Beer and Tabs...

You Sir have surely never experienced this kind of treatment. Fair enough you have the right to say your own opinion however you seem like you never had the pleasure of a "going from landside to airside" trip.
So you must be airside staff or just work near an airport or maybe have a passion for airplanes hence why you joined Pprune...
My opinion is shared by many. I refuse to be treated like a criminal when i have been checked 5 yrs back, no gaps whatsoever, to get my APT ID. References, criminal checks, what exactly i've been doing in those 2 days between jobs and what i had for b'fast, how many times a week i've been scratching my A$$ and what caused the rash (sense the sarcasm "love"), and after all this i am treated like a criminal, searched every day, like i was to harm anyone with my hairspary or hijack the plane with a hairgrip...
You Sir do not know what a day starting with stress caused by USELESS and totally POINTLESS (yes, I actually said that) security staff can actually do to you and the impact it has on your performance throughout the day.
As for flipping burgers... If i was to be as rude and as uneducated as you i would be f'ing and blinding like there is no tomorrow... But as i obviously have more class and a bigger IQ than you, all i would say is that I have the burgers flipped for me, not the other way around...
Yes, good on the security staff ( i have to mention again that i DID say that the majority staff at our APT are very nice and have common sense), for having a job and they're not claiming benefits... However i'm pretty sure i'm still paying for their housing on one of UK's "finest council estates".
Finally my dear SIR, unless you have 4, 2 stripes or a wing (CC)- hence i respect my dear colleagues-, if you want to say something please raise your hand and place it over your mouth.

Rgds,
ATS

While I agree with most of what she says, I wish she would learn how to use some punctuation.

:p

This is an issue that is relevent for all staff airside, to get to work in a pissed off state of mind before you even deal with the days issues is wrong.

I watched as a customs officer was pulled to bits the other day by a security operative. He was made to remove radios, boots, webbing belt with cuffs on. He looked increasingly annoyed and will be cleared to a far higher level of security clearance, with ongoing monitoring, than any crew but he was still being messed around and continually made to walk backwards and forwards through the arch.

I'd have some faith in the system if 'skurity' knew what the threat was and where it was coming from, ask them, they do not. The issue of delivering stuff airside for sale or consumption, for example, is one issue that amuses me immensely.

How do 'skurity' secure the supply chain on the aforementioned before it goes airside or before it even arrives in the airport? It's when one looks at it like this that it all begins to fall apart.

Abusing_the_sky makes some goods points but human nature being what it is it makes it sound like 'skurity' relish her arrival at the airport just to wind her up.

And that is wrong.

EMA security
 

Ah yes I to have had the misfortune of some eager security personel at EMA. However I would just like to see a more common sense approach to it all. After all I'd like to take a yoghurt/drink of my choice onboard but alas can't due to the 100ml restriction.

DESPITE this at arms length in the flightdeck is a crash axe!!:ugh::mad:Come on what is happening with common sense!?!?


With regards FR has Derry been lost? :D



Regards

Security staff at EMA
 

Firstly may i say that the screening staff at EMA are amongst the best at currently any of the many uk airports that i have used as crew.

They understand that the risk is not with customs officers or flight crew (although it is interesting to note that police officers seem to be above all this and are NOT searched in any way, nor should they be) yes there is the odd goon amongst the screening staff at most airports, but that apllies to flight crews to!

The problem is that there is only one channel for screening staff going airside and that does not and can not discriminate between diffrent groups of airside pass holders, we all know that many of the airside pass holders are either temp workers (building yet more shops!!) or of non UK origin, and that screening through Scottish disclosure or any other system will not and can hope to fill in the employment history.

So they have only two choice, one is to create a two tier system with a seprate gate for certain groups (customs, ATC, flight crew, engineers, despatchers) the list goes on and another for shop workers. cleaners and so on, you see the problem, many of the shop workers have been there years too.

You could go down the route of UK and non Uk nationals, but that wouldn't comply with European law and would more importantly not be effect from a security point of view, BTW don't think that the planned introduction of ID card to be used first on airport workers is anything but a back door atempt by this discredited Goverment to introduce ID cards by the back door and will not ease or smooth your path through airport security , it won't

To improve things i would start by increasing the pay rates for airport security workers get to at least what fire service personel earn, but put them on a temp; rolling 6 month contract this would ensure that the airport can get rid of bad apples and have no problem replacing them, the staff would understand that they are on a good number and having a job that they would be lucky to earn as much else where and that being polite is part of being professional

One last thing all crew could try and smile:)

Good - sheer insanity more like.

The heli movements at their current size and the airport cannot co-exist, it's dangerous and an incident waiting to happen. As for the road infrastructure. Well, if Donny Park and Bernie E are willing to put me up in the Thistle over the period then great - but I am NOT setting off 4 hours early for a shift when the journey normally takes 20 minutes.

I like motor sport, but this is a proposal which will not work.

I guess when you type in a hurry to let it all out, punctuation is the last thing you think of. Solly :p

I wish one day, a pilot whose yoghurt's been confiscated for "security and safety" reasons, goes to the a/c, grabs the crash axe, comes back and slams it on the belt saying "I have this behind my seat in the f/d, does this look dangerous to you or does my yoghurt?":ugh:

Rgds,
ATS


I'm not enirely sure but i think this actually happened some time ago in STN

Gridlock
 

As the Chilli man says the F1 GP at Donny will be disastrous for pax and staff trying to get to in during the event. The area will need some serious infrastructure improvements which will of course mean even more dsiruption ue to construction.

It was notable that the EM Development Agency had not been consulted on the transfer or potential transfer of the GP.


The prospect of 1750 helo movements just doesn't bear thinking about: we go across the top of the track at about 500ft on final to 09 and at around 800ft on departure 27.

The departure is dodgiest as we have a 17 degree pitch attitude and can't see below!!

Re the Grand Prix
 

With out significant improvement to the local road net work then yes it will be chaos, but there is time to sort that out if they get cracking.

The restricted access junction on the M42 j14? needs to be a dedicated entry exit for all GP traffic on the peak traffic days and would need entry/exit from both North & South, Airport traffic should have a dedicated lane with a new entry/exit on to the M42 between J14 and the exit to the service A453.

All airport employee's should have a staff only bus that is given priority with remote parking near Bredon on the Hill for all staff living Ashby/Swad side and the same again East of the MI towards Radcliffe likewise between Donington and the A50 these need only be tempory for the duration of the race days.

A tempory bailey bridge can be built near the 09 threshold crossing the West side service road allowing access for Helio pax direct to the race circuit and also allowing a direct staff route from the North so no need for Helio traffic to land at the Park itself, like wise i am sure Sir Michael would be more than happy (for a fee) to allow copter traffic to park on bmi estate's.

There will be a massive demand on slots for fixed wing from light aircraft/biz jet/charter/schedule and of course all the transport frieght aircraft that the GP circus brings with it.

Easy/baby& Ryan should do very well out of this, given that it will already be a very busy weekend anyway, but there are bound to be more movement requests than there is space for so i expect to see the Loco running aircraft all night to create space in their schedules to do the normal meds plus all the other charter traffic.

A ring side view from the tower will be fantastic and we should put a live video feed in.

Let me assure you LADY that in my line of work at EMA I have had the I have had the 'pleasure' many times on a daily basis over the last 20 years of going landside to airside, and my dear LADY that involves being airside staff, as well as 'crew' for want of a better phrase while emabarking on my little jaunts. So although I do not have stripes as part of my sorry little career I have had to go through the process many many times.

Fact of the matter is, that is the environment we work in, and you don't like it...... get your coat. Try writing to your MP, the DfT, your therapist instead of griping about people who are doing their job.

You strike me as one of those little madams who trots up with her nose in the air wondering who these people are to 'inconvenience' YOU, and I am begining to understand why they might single you out on a regular basis.

You may well have a very large IQ LADY, but it certainly didn't come across in the drivel you posted previously. I'm quite pleased to say my education and IQ are of a reasonable level also (what a lucky boy I am)

AND FINALLY LADY......that little line about you paying for their "finest council estates" is nothing short of pathetic. Maybe you were one of the lucky ones born with a silver spoon up your chuff, others have to work at life.

Oh and 1 more minor point, your A$$ rash is of no concern of mine, I'm sure there is a cream out there that will cure your ailment nicely. Size of tube of said cream relevent to size of aforementioned A$$.

qwertyplop...

As I am to my friend :ok:
I am actually a very laid back fellow (allegedly), but some people annoy me with their BIG I AM attitude to others.

Kind regard
Your Freind
Beer_n_Tabs

Ooo err. :\

Don't sit on the fence Beer_n_tabs, tell us what you really think? :}

This reliance on the Disclosure Scotland paperwork is rather pointless to is it not? It's only valid on the day it was issued.

It'll get you a pass, it's up to you to keep it.

I've got to say i've been to EMA when theres been racing on at Donnington and the road is a nightmare. I can't even begin to imagine what it will be like when the F1 is hosted there!

Regarding security - Better to be over cautious than under cautious. Theres probably multiple reasons as to why they are strict even with air crew. I've flown planes into airfields and then gone through security but it doesnt really bother me. I normally just hold a general conversation with them which makes the process nicer and less stressful for all involved. They're doing their job and its all for the safety of everyone involved.

But whats their plans regarding the helicopters flying in and out? The roads are one thing but they've also got to think about helicopters landing and departing in close proximity to EMA.

You will get no argument from me there matey..but it has to be done if we want to work in this wibbly wobbly game.

Tis true. :hmm:

With all due respect you're living in cloud cuckoo land. The 100 million investment is centred on the track - NOT the external infrastructure. You need a dedicated dual carriageway from the M1 to the circuit - it isn't going to happen (where would it go to start with?). This is just greed overtaking common sense.

Chilli Monster is 100% correct regarding road access.

Silverstone used to be a nightmare, however since the building of the A43 they use it as a dedicated dual carriageway to the track, there is no through access on this road during GP weekends. Unless Donnington has a similar plan I fear total chaos.

I can see a situation where someone may take a 2 hour flight to watch the GP only to be met with an even longer journey (time wise) to get from EMA to the track!

In principle the GP is good for the airport and the area as a whole, however unless the access is sorted out first the whole scheme could easily turn into a disaster for those it should be benefiting.

They'll make a good track, no doubt about it.

I think they'll have to do what Silverstone did after the 2000 GP and introduce a 'park and ride' scheme. Won't work otherwise.

Or pay the airport to shut for the weekend to commercial traffic and use it as a big old car and helo park. :E

Just a thought on the GP situation ........

I'm not convinced it will really happen.

1. Current Donnignton starting point for onsite facilities is way below current Silverstone.

2. Ditto for road infrastructure.

3. Ditto for exec Helis etc.

4. Two years to exceed Silverstone's current infrastructure seems highly improbable (think planning permission alone)?


5. GP was awarded to Brands Hatch not that long ago ..... it didn't move (but did put pressure on BRDC to make some progress on improving Silverstone).



If you look back F1 is an expert at co-ordinating publicity and pressure to achieve what is wanted ........ why make the announcement as this years event starts?

Why not wait until next week, point at annother year's poor facilities at Silverstone etc and say as a result it's moving.


Would it possibly be that with all the GP movers & shakers plus Central/Local Govt. "hangers-on" enjoying corporate hospitality this weekend it's a good strategy to try and overcome a few problems by piling on the pressure?

The powers that be in the highways dept together with local goverment will be well aware of the problems that affected Silverstone and will not want a repeat at EMA. I agree 100% that there will be chaos without some major plans being brought forward to address these issues.

The airport and airlines will be asking the same questions, this event will require a licence in order to go ahead and the police will have to approve any plans not least because of the respones required in the event of a major incident, can you imagine how the emergency service would react if there was a full blown incident?

I think if i was in Tiny town or Easyland i'd be thinking about moving all the volume med flights to either BHX or COV or making them overnight flights for that weekend, in any event trying to run a normal weekend program would end up with so many slot delays, crew problems and pax who miss flights because they can't get near the place.

Of course a lot of pax are so well informed these days they will probably avoid using EMA this weekend in 2010 so its something that all the planners need to get their heads round PDQ

Helicopter Movements for the Grand Prix 2010.
 

My Thoughts you would need two landing sites one where they have now landing south of the track and the other one north of the track as some one said Donnington hall has got alot of land they could use as a landing facillty they would be controlled by ATC. I seem to remember ATC Had a little 4 wheel unit when the grand prix was held there the last time thou it did P:mad: it down for sennas Victory. You would have helicopters from the north landing to the north of the track on the north pad and helis from the south landing on the south pad you would have a entry/exit route as we do Now with the shepshed/long eaton lanes then No helis would cross the flight path. Also you will have helis that want to go into the airport. But in my mind the above could work with GOOD PLANNING:ok:.

Quite agree on the idea of the entry/exit lane and two independent helipads. Anybody know how many movements we can expect over the full weekend?

grand prix
 

I think everyone is getting a bit excited about the race coming to Donington Park,You all seem to have overlooked a major stumbling block namely North West Leicestershire District Council.If it takes as long to make Planning decisions as it is taking for the Runway extensions then Silverstone will be holding the Race for a long time to come.The Airport applied for a 13O mtr extension in 2000 and this has still to be concluded,or perhaps double standards will apply,crossing palms with silver may come into it somewhere.

Article in the Derby Evening Telegraph On Bmi Baby.
 

In todays paper page 29 in the business section there is an article on Bmi Baby, Mainly how they are coping with the high fuel costs etc, but also in the article it quotes the commercial director Julian Carr Say that they are looking to add 5 New Routes by the end of the year out of EMA. Presumbe they might be announced by the end of the year for next summers 2009 schedule. Would love to see them operate Newquay.:ok:

Ps WW have started to charge you to check in on certain routes.

I'd love Newquay n'all ! It'd be like a staff bus at the weekend !

some more ski destinations would be nice, expect it will be more meds and italy

Leicestershire County Council on the East Mids BBC news tonight outrightly supported the Grand Prix move to Donington. No planning permission has been granted for any expansion as yet. But it will be, this is too good an £££ making opportunity for LCC to miss out on.

Previous attempts by the circuit to expand to this level were to my knowledge knocked back by NWLDC on the grounds of lack of supporting funds from the circuit to expand the A453. It has to happen this time.

The NOTAMs for Silverstone on Saturday and Sunday made heavy reading regarding restricted airspace right upto 10000ft amsl.

On the plus side, Red Arrows back in town. Remember watching their last jaunt directly over the track and 09 end some years ago.;)

Local Variation

I didn't see the BBC item - was it LCC or NWLDC? LCC can support the proposal, but North West Leics are the planning authority who have to say yes or no.

Given that even the smallest kitchen extension can take some months from the date of application, something of this size, with the inevitable huge number of objections likely, will most probably have to go to public enquiry and referral to the appropriate Minister. Even if Donington have the plans ready to submit today, don't expect approval in a hurry. It's possible they won't have approval until 2010, let alone have the works completed.

I suspect that the earlier suggestion that pressure is being put on Silverstone by this announcement is closer to the truth. Or if you want a really wild conspiracy theory, perhaps the intention is to take the GP away from Silverstone, and for Donington to fail to meet the takeover conditions, so the GP goes to a more profitable venue overseas - India perhaps?:rolleyes:

Article in the Derby Evening Telegraph On Bmi Baby.
 

...Julian Carr says that they are looking to add 5 New Routes by the end of the year out of EMA.

All by coach via Birmingham probably....! :rolleyes:

It's funny how most assume that if Donnington is not ready by 2010 then the race will go back to Silverstone. As they have no real motivation to develop the facilities there now that they've been told that there'll be no races there after next year I'd say the most likely scenario is that the British GP will be dropped all together if Donnington is not ready. So lets hope that the council and all those involved pull their fingers out and get it sorted!

I have heard that bmibaby are considering:

Almeria and Bilbao

Dunno which he was from... I saw the item - the guy from the council seemed to be in support the idea, and said that the A453 past the airport to the park would need to be dualled - words to the effect that it was doable but that they needed to get a strt on it as soon as possible.

I would have thought that the helis could be operated onto DHL for the weekend rather than direct into the Park - all helis to join from the south and don't get as far north as the runway. And exec jets etc put on cargo east - neither east nor west are usually busy weekends. A perimeter road bus transfer for pax from cargo west out of a crash gate at the western end of the airfield (they had that during the last GP) would then suffice.

A

Bilbao would be fantastic, that coast is great but it a summer route the Picos mountains a very popular for walking and biking and second homes

race weekend chaos
 

further to the comments i made earlier about NWLDC,having had dealings with these people before i must agree if this planning application goes through the normal channels it will be a long time being passed.When it does finally get the go ahead dualling the A453 will do little to help the traffic chaos,surely the obvious solution is to build a monorail from the new Railway Station which could serve the Airport and the Racetrack.

East Midlands 6
 

I was at Siverstone on sunday just to see the Helis and believe me it is the best FREE airshow and exhibition of helicopter flying skills you will ever see and you can watch from the car parks so you just walk in and it dosent cost a penny. The first arrival was at 08-15 and the last arrival was at 11-50 just before the RED arrows DISPLAY. In that time i logged 120 different helis but with many of them making multiple journeys i would say there were upwards of 250 actual movements inbound and the same outbound so you can see how busy it is.The way it is organised and operated is just amazing so if the F1 ever came to dono i think the atc people would probably have to liase with the silverstone ops people who have been doing it years to see how it all comes together.Personally i cant see it happening because it is not just about the racetrack but the whole silverstone "circus" covers a huge area (many miles). Some of the campsites are up to 5 miles away with the fans being shuttled in by bus along the now dual -carraigeway A43 and there is still traffic chaos.It would be like having campsites at Long Eaton/Ashby/Clifton etc.After it is over the A43 is turned into a one-way system with all four lanes being used to get people away and we still heard horror stories of fans taking 6 hours to get back to the motorway.Iurge anybody who seriously believes that the F1 can come to donington to find some way of going to Silverstone next year (you have to go down sat night and find somewhere to doss down) and you will realise it is the impossible dream.SDorry to dampen the hope of any F1 fans but go and see the silverstone experience and you will the see IT AINT NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN AT DONO PARK. sorry!!

Well Lets just hope you are totally wrong End Bag!!!!!!!.

hamburg int
 

yes it is true they are doing the weekly flight, aircraft type i dont know

The only ground left at the Hall that could be used for landing helicopters is right in front of the hall, chop down a few trees and you might be ok but I can't see them being allowed to land on the immaculate grass that was last seen out there a couple of weeks ago.