BELFAST (BHD) - 3
 

I worked out that BHD takes up approx. 300 acres (now my maths is not the best) so I am open to correction.

Land in Lisburn has been sold for in excess of £100m, making it one of the largest residential land sales in Northern Ireland's history.

And the 75-acre site at Brokerstown Village, Glenavy Road will be developed with permission to build 650 new homes.

This is an extract from the Belfast Tele recently. I would say that the BHD site along the loughshore there would be quite nice to live in. So if my maths is correct that would be worth +£400 million. How much was the airport sold for I think it was £35 million. Operating profit of £2.4 approx. Now tell me what you would do if you owned the facility


Continuation of: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...250540&page=23

Actually that last post was a load of:mad:, as I have just realised that the Port of Belfast owns the land, the airport only trade on it.

Correct, the land is owned by the Harbour Commisonaires. Development on the site is limited to 'airport related activity' and residential and direct retail development is prohibited. The Harbour Commissionaires have released the ground at the Titanic Quarter for one of the most ambitious development projects ever undertaken in Ireland, with development work planned over a timescale of 25 years. They will never allow the airport site to be used for housing or any other such development as this would be dilutionary on the on Titanic Quarter which is going to be a big enough struggle to complete, it is an absolutley huge project. The City Airport is going to be there for some time, lets hope that they can get some other reliable and 'recommendable' airlines to operate viable and sustainable routes, and that the existing airlines do something proactive to prevent their load factors being further eroded, not only by competition, but by their own inadequate standards and over pricing.

See the Caa May stats are out for Bhd. Month of May -1.9% and down 4.3% for the year. Hardly impressive for an airport with more services than ever. The 2 major carriers, Bd and Flybe can't be impressed either. What is the problem here? Is it just that they are charging too much?

True Blue

Aer Lingus new base
 

Friend of mine has spoken to an easyjet chief steward on Friday (24th) on the Belfast to Rome route and he told me that according to him, it's looking very likely that Aer Lingus will set up their new base in Belfast. He'd said that the decision was between Birmingham and Belfast and that Belfast was definetely the favourite.

BHD Flyer
I don't think an easyjet employee is the best source of info on the future plans of Aer Lingus. He's probably just speculating just like everyone else

Yea I know what you mean I suppose everybody is speculating at the moment, but I would think Belfast would be the winner considering it was announced on the news that there could be a thousand new jobs created and 15 new routes. If you go onto the BBC website, then search up previous news articles, they didn't exactly announce that there could be new routes and jobs at BHX, MAN or GLA, did they? Now maybe I'm wrong and their just kicking up a fuss because it's Irelands national airline and Paisley and Adams are now in government, but still it makes me wonder?

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/bu...cle2706531.ece

Hope this link works, never done this before. The story is also in the Belfast Telegraph and if it's in the papers it must be true.

Would someone remind me, how many passengers does BHD have each year and what is the capacity limited to

I have previously stated that having 2 airports (I know there are more than 2 in total) fighting for the same small catchment is not a good thing, but the low cost airlines, namely Easyjet don't do well unless they have serious competition (FR's LDY-STN and AB BHD-STN don't even scratch the surface)

Ryanair at BHD would be great for competiton. Mind you it would be interesting to see what Flybe do with the increased competition, and BMI as well!

Intersting speculation on Ryanair starting from BHD. Would be great news for N.Ireland as further employment prospects and more competiton for destinations means joe public benefit. Let's hope it's true!

So how will they overcome the problem that Ryanair will probably want to operate outside the Bhd operating hours, first flights out shortly after 6 and last back maybe after 11? Or will no aircraft be based there? If aircraft are to be based, how will MOL react to diversions to Bfs?

True Blue

At last it seems that we are going to get a reliable and cheaper operator at the City, long overdue. I hope it all works out and the flybe and midland are forced to buck up their ideas if they are to stand any chance of surviving the competition.
The airport, and the planners need to take a hard line with the anti's, when they have their day in court in September, and explain that this is the best opportunity the airport has ever had. The benefits that will be enjoyed in terms of additional employment and other economic factors from increased tourism and inward investment far outweigh the minimal inconvenience caused by the transient noise of a very modern aircraft. C'mon residents, get on board and support your local airport.

I've done some searching and the cap seems to be 1.5m pax however I have read that there was 2 millionth passenger in 2004! Can't find any recent statistics for passenger throughput, but it sounds as if they are near to their limit so either MOL won't be happy or something will have to give.

Interesting times ahead

I'm not convinced with FR@BHD. They have operational restrictions out of LDY on short flights to the UK, with BHD's runway being even shorter, are the likes of CIA and RIX actually possible?

I would assume if anything, they would use the old terminal, which would actually be perfect for an FR style operation.

Regards

Mike

FR at BHD,

Very interesting day, I wonder where this story came from. I believe in one airport for Belfast maybe that should be BHD now, because if Ryanair announce Belfast before EI, then EI probably will avoid Belfast altogether. Mind you LHR would still be a safe bet and maybe if EI thought long haul from BFS a base still could be viable. It seems to me to be a game with FR trying to out play EI. A couple of weeks ago Belfast/Shannon was talked about, when things between BFS appeared to be getting 'hot'. Now its more dramatic with actual talk of several routes from BHD. FR announced a BRS base when it was top dog for EI. Maybe FR have been side lined a little by BFS, as they try to nail down EI-not answering the phone etc, and this is MOL sending a wake-up call. Mind you if you were management of BFS who would you prefer EI or FR? you probably cannot have both.
If this turns out to be true this would be a major turn around for BHD, numbers would start to really rise. But from FR's point of view I just cannot see the attraction, with restrictions etc the aircraft would probably have to be inbound to make full use of them. But then again WW operate like that into BFS. Not good timing from BHD's point of view, fuel for residents/environmental groups against BHD at up and coming review. But anyway all this speculation what about some actual formal announcements we have had Delta/EI/FR/Virgin/Emirates etc etc

Do you know the FIRST thing about how an aerodrome works??:ugh::ugh::ugh:

ok can some 1 please answer me a couple off questions why would bhd managment even want to talk to fr they are limited to 2 million pax per year BMI high revenue per pax FLY BE low - med revenue per pax air berlin ??? who knows now if fr arrive at the city with 8 new routes call that 24 flights per day x180 pax = 1,572,480 per year lifting more or less no revenue from them air berlin gone flybe gone BMI maybe still there come on folks wise up and smell the coffee as for the press i expect nothing less short on a bit off news today were we:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:;);) !!!!!!!!!!!!!

So as FR are at HHN, should we close FRA?
So as FR are at STN, should we close LHR and LGW?:rolleyes:

AB will be off of the STN route soon as the competition will become too high.
BE will be able to maintain a sustainable service on the route as the bigger frequency suits alot of business passengers.
BMI links LHR. What more is there to say. Can make connections to destinations across the globe and when BMI introduce new services from LHR to distant lands, the loads may even further increase!

If the reports are true, this is great for the city. The two main airlines contesting in another major UK city. Now they have LON (MAJOR!), LPL, Glasgow, EMA and BRS along with Belfast (Allbe it at two different airports!)

Would also like to point out that this will not please LS either.

I believe in one airport for Belfast maybe that should be BHD now

eastern wiseguy,

BFS is the main airport in Belfast and has to remain that way for long haul operations, freight, 24 operation etc, however the planners keep allowing BHD to expand which is curtailing growth at BFS. (therefore major investment in infrastructure is at a very slow speed at BFS). I was kind of being like - hypothetical.

So how does Bd react to this? I understand (and I may be wrong) that one of the reasons that Bd moved to Bhd was that they took the huff with Bfs over the deal that was being offered at that time to Easy. Ryanair strike a very hard deal and will certainly have a much better deal at Bhd than Bd might get. Will that be the excuse for Bd to move back to Bfs?

True Blue

Regarding the news re: Fr at Bhd. Didn't we have a BBC reporter outside Bfs about 3 years ago telling us that Fr were about to do a deal at Bfs. The difference between them was a few pence in pax handling charges. What happened to that?

Also, these new routes to the continent that are being mentioned. As the runway at Bhd is shorter than Ldy and Fr want it lengthened, how will that work at Bhd? Or will Bhd want to make a longer runway there as well to please Fr?

True Blue

Why would Ryanair use BHD with restrictions that are there in place at the moment. They have tried for years with 'both' airports without securing a deal. Now it seems strange that they would operate from Belfast with routes such as Katowice/Warsaw (Wizz at BFS) EMA (WW at BFS) BRS, LPL, Paris, Rome (EZY at BFS) - Barcelona (Jet 2 at BFS).Why not BOH, Stockholm, Frankfurt... etc. really these routes apart from Riga, Brussels are not going to benefit the traveller in the long run. To me its simply that EI are maybe about to sign up at BFS and the only option open to FR is BHD, and its kind of a warning to BFS/EI. Now with falling numbers at BHD they may well try and do a deal with Ryanair, but they may well upset BD/BE as a result. (Bhd may not be happy with the way things are going with relation to BE delays/cancellations). But beware BHD look at BRS only weeks after announcing a new base and they were threatening to leave if the charges rise.

cessnarocket,

What are your thoughts on EI at BFS.

909,
If you can get a pair of those glasses Ill take a pair,and i agree until it arrives dont believe all the hipe! LOL:D

SPACE for FR
 

I think bhd will have to renovate the old terminal building, due to no check in limited gates etc., and stands which could cope with 1 or 2 b737 if it can fit 2 were will the GA go?

Pfffffft! What a lot of tosh.

FR won't operate into BHD - not enough tarmac for their high speed taxying antics. :}

Besides, just how many stands at BHD can take a 738? Hmmm? You really think BMI are going to be given the elbow to make way for Ryanair? Exactly.

As far as i know 4 and 5 can only take the 738. And we know 4 is BMI exclusive.

Well until the new lounge at Gate 16 at BFS is opened.....:E:E

Well until the new lounge at Gate 16 at BFS is opened

So is BMI now rumoured to be moving up the road.... where does all this end. Can I make something up. BA is re-introducing Concorde exclusively to operate from Gate 22 at Aldergrove, to New York, Washington and Sydney..... This thread has gone mad!!!!! beyond rumour

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Could bhd not create a new stand capable of Fr 738 at the GA area (old terminal) with space still for GA. It does seem unlikely for fr to come unless bhd extend the taxiway so it runs paralell down the whole length of runway.

Ok lets get the facts as i see them EI still a strong poss for belfast bfs if this happins bmi will stay at the city ryan air will not be operating from the city due to rwy lengths etc the city will not have them due to the low yeald passangers compared to bmi or flybe if by some strange weird bad managment the city let them in, airberlin and flybe would leave with only bmi and the ryans remaning lets not forget there passanger cap folks

maybe some spotted teenager called ryan is settin up a base with his cessna 150 at bhd :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

In my mind its rediculous to think that FR are setting up at BHD, but the fact is that it was reported in the tele. They ran it on the front page and the business paper, so their source must be reliable. I can remember that in Sept/Oct 2001 after BD had announced their move to BHD (which in its self was stupid and time has proven so) the Belfast telegraph announced the head line BA to axe LHR/BFS and move the remainder down the road. Now that was not an official announcement it was 'speculation', proven correct shortly afterwards. At that moment and I thought no way rubbish, why would they do that now with no competition at BFS on LHR. So I would take the current story quite seriously.

Gate 22

I agree with you and your point. However, please see my post no 23 re BBc and Fr at Bfs before. Also, some of the routes do not add up, with the runway lenght at Bhd and don't Fr use de-rated engines which is the cause of their problems at Ldy?

More questions than answers at the moment.

On another point, I was disappointed that WW on the winter timetable didn't increase flights to Bhx, thought they might have went to 4 daily, route does well and they could attack Flybe at a time of weakness. On the Man route, last dept ex Man is about 5pm. First out of Bfs is 8.40am. Could they be positioning for a night stopper at Bfs to Man?

True Blue

True Blue,

last dept ex Man is about 5pm

Seems quite possible as 5pm is too early for the day return, and WW mentioned lately in the press that 40% of their BFS traffic were business travellers, they also didn't rule out a night stopper. As for BHX WW could do better.

EZY are very quiet, are they just going to let BFS slip away, I think they could expand AMS, CDG to 2 daily, and Rome/Berlin Daily. I mentioned before recently about Malaga was not up to UK standard with scheduled passenger numbers last year, however with the introduction of J2 the figures have caught up. Therefore the justification for an increase across their network from BFS as mentioned above would work well I think. (or they could just sit around and wait for FR to arrive then waken-up)

The ideas being floated that BHD should reinstate the old terminal for Ryanair are a non runner. The new terminal was granted planning as a 'replacement' not an additional facility. While I don't profess to know the technicals I would imagine that operations from a runway shorter than at LDY, particularly to the destinations stated in Eastern Europe would be problematic.
Sounds to me like a journalist running with a story running with a story with no substance. We may be faced with the high prices, limited network and unreliable services from the city for some time to come.

I know that it's been remarked that I know nothing about aerodromes, but would somebody explain runway length issues as follows.
1. Why does FR want LDY runway to be longer-FCA use A320 to Palma, there are flights to Faro (possibly A320) thats quite a range from LDY-are there only a certain number of passengers allowed on these flights.
2. If BHD has a shorter runway than LDY how come the A321 was used for LHR (was there a restriction on seats as well). I think last year the A321 was used for Malaga as it was a 'W' pattern from BFS with BD on Thursdays.

So basically if FR were to use bhd would the runway need to be lengthened or would they just restrict the loads, which would seem like a waste of money.

Very much appreciated if somebody in the know would outline these issues

Thankyou

Gate 22

BHD 1,829m

LDY 1,852m

Any more proof needed? BD 321 BHD-AGP I wouldn't have thought so.

Regards

Mike

I have heard from my end at EMA that Ryanair wish to open a route between EMA and Belfast City and drop Derry.

Why not?

ZB were going to use it on the BLK AGP route form BLK which has a similar length before they messed with the flight times and ended up cancelling the service.

Also, LS use the 752 on the BLK-TFS route. AGP is perfectly possible with thw A321.