MUFC Fan, nothin sinister there. Problem is that T5 was immediately seen as too small for te BA operation. It's easier - much easier - to keep as many of the airline's smaller operational groupings - that is 757s, Australasias - together.

Floored regional flying argument
 

Beancounter1 said;
Delta also fly international and domestic service from Minneapolis,Salt Lake City and New York JFK

Lufthansa also has a major hub at Munich as well as international services from Dusseldorf, Hamburg, Hanover and Berlin.

Air France operates international and domestic services from Nice, Lyon, Marseille, Bordeaux and Toulouse

American flies from Chicago, JFK and Miami to domestic and international destinations

United manages to support several international hubs across the US e.g. San Francisco and Washington

BA can't take on its low fares competition in the regions as it is so top heavy with managers. It is tied into it's out of date massively overpriced contracts for CC etc. To say that BA is following the rule of most airlines is wrong. BA are the exception when it comes to regional flying.

Oh and the distances involved argument is also floored ie; short journey from Birmingham to London can be dismissed when airlines like Austrian manage to operate service from airports so close to Vienna as Linz and Salzburg. Why do Swiss manage to fly from Zurich Geneva and Basle?
Daza

Daza,

Are you familiar with the concept of Economies of Scale?

Mucfan,

757 not used from T5 as only aircraft (747/777/767 a319/a320/a321) that take the baggage containers (LD3?) are based at T5. IIRC apparently to streamline the baggage transfer process.

T5 is designed around containerised baggage so whichever size the aircraft uses can be accomodated. It's planes such as the 737 and 757 which are unsuitable as they need yer traditional old bag-smasher to load them up.

Interesting that those little A318s being bought for LCY-JFK won't be able to use LHR T5 on diversion either as they are a bit too dainty to have the required cargo door for containers.

That said there is still equipment in place to deal with that eventuallity. 75/73 can be containerised but issues such as hoped for disposal / age and the vast costs prompted only Airbus conversion. As things have turned out so far so good, when the next uoturn in the market occurs things may be different?

Skylion,

Quote 'sexism (in favour of women)'

What evidence do you base your statement on?

Yes it will, T5 can still handle non containerised aircraft if the need arises.
757's have operated out of T5 a few times since it opened.

Will those little 318s still be used now that all the bankers are learning a hard lesson? If they can find the pax will they want to spend the money ?

Nice one. Maybe PwC, Lehman's administrator and a long standing BA customer, will be still picking over the international bones, but in Canary wharf there still are HSBC, Barclays and others with an appetitie for voyages transatlantic.....

These days they seem to count as something less than "abroad". Using BA, if you want to go to anywhere in continental Europe and do anything like a full day's work, it takes part of at least two days, and for a really full day, it takes three. From London, you can get to, say, Brussels reasonably early in the morning and get home that night after finishing work after 5pm. However the last flights with connections to Manchester are at 15:30 via LHR and 16:40 with SN Brussels via LGW. The earliest flight from Manchester showing for next Monday is at 10:15, arriving at 14:45. For some reason the FlyBE flight at 06:35 is not showing on ba.com.

Just a few years ago I could travel in reasonable comfort in a jet rather than a turboprop, with reasonable service, get to a meeting in central Brussels for a 10 o'clock meeting, and get home the same day after a full afternoon session. And the flights were usually pretty full.

So "London Radial Airlines" it is.:{

And so profitable that other airlines have been falling over themselves to provide substitute services on these routes ...

Ba Shares
 

I dont hold shares in BA but, notice that the share price has fallen big time last week. Any particular reason why?

Imploding financial institutions = significantly less bums on premium seats

More Redundancies At Ba
 

For what it's worth the last bastion of BA operations outside London will be all but gone by Christmas.
22 of the 33 Engineers at MAN have been given 90 days notice.

We knew it would happen as soon as the MAN-JFK route cut was announced but it still hurts. :{

....aside from BA Engineering Glasgow and Cardiff I hope. Sad news for all. I guess 11 engineers for the LGW / LHR shuttles remain?

These are Mainline BA Engineers.

Cardiff and Glasgow are separate subsidiaries.

Not criticising that just being a pedant. :ok:

BA Route moves for Summer 2009
 

BA had announced that the daily 777 flight from Gatwick to Atlanta is to move to Heathrow from the end of March. In addition the Gatwick Toulouse route will also move to Heathrow at the same time.

A new route to St Kitts (Via Antigua) will commence on 10th Jan 2009..it will operate once a week on the 777.

Shorthaul capacity to be cut by 15% from this summers schedule, and the short haul network at LGW will be operated by a total of 28 aircraft( B737 and Airbus)

Funny: I thought there was a BA thread.

BA shares 12-month low?
 

Apart from the general financial malaise, is there any other news driving BA shares down to a 12-month low?

oil costs alot

Not much better.....

http://ichart.europe.yahoo.com/c/1y/l/lha.de

Here's a comparison...

BAY.L: Summary for BRITISH AIRWAYS - Yahoo! Finance

BA have a particular issue because having sold off the regions because they didn't give the desired return on investment, having dumped the franchised operations out of London because they were too much leisure passengers, or too low profile destinations, having reduced the Y class proportion of seats, they retreated back to the core mainstream trunk routes that had the best proportion of premium-class passengers, which they concentrated on more than other carriers.

Then the jobs that all those premium class passengers had, and the companies that used to pay full fare F for a graduate trainee to go to New York, started to evaporate. In recent weeks quite notably. Does have a share price impact.

@MFALK

thx, link is working now.

Link worked for me!

There is, but I thought that this was the Airlines, Airports and Routes Forum:confused:

Traffic Stats
 

TRAFFIC AND CAPACITY STATISTICS - September 2008
Summary of the headline figures
In September 2008, passenger capacity, measured in Available Seat Kilometres, was 0.8 per cent above September 2007. Traffic, measured in Revenue Passenger Kilometres, fell by 4.8 per cent. This resulted in a passenger load factor decrease of 4.3 points versus last year, to 74.0 per cent. Traffic comprised an 8.6 per cent decrease in premium traffic and a 4.1 per cent fall in non-premium traffic.
Cargo, measured in Cargo Tonne Kilometres, fell by 3.5 per cent.
Market conditions Trading conditions continue to be challenging. Longhaul premium traffic has softened after the summer and forward bookings are being affected by the increased anxiety in financial markets and by the uncertain economic outlook. Revenue forecasts for the year carry some risk, although current good yields and the stronger dollar are broadly offsetting the volume impact. Cost initiatives continue in an effort to offset revenue risk. Fuel costs are still expected to be around £3 billion for the year. The target continues to be for the business to break even at the operating level.

British Airways make 80% of it's profits from 10 routes.

9 of them Transatlantic!

So to an extent, WHBM is correct. On the other hand, non of these 10 routes, has ever been 'Regional', 'leisure', or to 'low profile destination'???

Draw your own conclusions! :rolleyes:

One wonders how overexposed they are to the UK-US market as things go tango uniform again. The words eggs and basket spring to mind.

EDI to loose BA1433 (1st LHR dep of the day). Will combine it with BA1435. Two other services to go too according to some of the LHR based cabin crew.

Daily Express

UK NEWS
BA PASSENGER NUMBERS DOWN


British Airways has announced a 5.6 per cent fall in passenger numbers
Friday October 3,2008
British Airways carried 5.6% fewer passengers last month than in September 2007 and announced that trading conditions continued to be "challenging".
A total of nearly 2.8 million passengers flew with BA in September 2008, compared with more than 2.96 million in September 2007.

BA said forward bookings were being affected "by the increased anxiety in financial markets and by the uncertain economic outlook".

Africa and Middle East traffic dipped the most last month, dropping 10.1%. The UK and Europe sector fell 5.9%, North and South America including the Caribbean was down 2.6% and Asia Pacific decreased 5.3%.

BA planes were 74.0% full last month compared with 78.3% in September 2007.

Numbers travelling in first class and business class seats fell 8.6% while economy class traffic was down 4.1%.

BA said: "Revenue forecasts for the year carry some risk, although current good yields and the stronger dollar are broadly offsetting the volume impact.

"Cost initiatives continue in an effort to offset revenue risk. Fuel costs are still expected to be around £3 billion for the year. The target continues to be for the business to break even at the operating level."

Bunnygirl - I'm up for the St Kitts flights, do you think they might drop it in to NQY so we in Kernow don't have to drive up country to catch it though....

I work for BA and can see some very tough times approaching over this Winter, with major changes ahead; but if the company are still saying that we will break even at the operational level (ie with losses probably due redundancy payments etc) I for one think that that is a MAJOR achievement in the current climate.

I think the scale of the current downturn is yet to be understood by many - this is potentially MUCH bigger than 9/11 and Gulf War 1/2; in my view this signals the end of the US led world economy and a depression lasting 5 years.

Surviving is the name of the game, and within the airlines BA is better placed than about 90% of 'real' airlines (ie those trading as a PLC, not Alitalia, Olympic, Gulf and SE Asian state controlled airlines etc).

.....I thought BA had already dropped Kernow!

Haha.

I think we were debating its return for the new season.

Anyone have the latest figures for BMI?

Flew with them longhaul the other week and the load was extremely light.

i think NQY has been dropped at the moment for the winter 08 and was given as a route suspension ?

could be back for summer 09 ?

Bring NQY back! I never got to go... :(

In the summer during the week they were carrying single figures in a B737-500. Since that's not good and they won't fly anything that small by next summer it's not coming back !