Yes re night hospital landing sites
Re replacement aircraft, no SLF will not be footing the bill;)

ASU also has a different meaning at BHX.....Anyway, SLF won't be hit with any extra cost. The only time they get hit is when airlines squeeze the airport to lower fees. The SLF think then that they are getting lower fares. The actual cost just gets moved around. However I have little sympathy for someone who pays more for the taxi to the airport than the flight to destination....
So stop worrying and just get on with your life. Enjoy your flights You will be safe in the restricted zone.....(The Police Helecopter is not kept within the restricted zone).

So when in the controlled zone, what was stopping the offenders going onto the restricted zone???? answers to the BHX management please:E

You seem to think that the fence is there to keep all out.....As has been proven on several occasions over the years, if someone is determined they will breach the fence in one way or another.
Common sense says it is a deterrent not a barrier, Had they entered from the controlled area and attempted access to the restricted area the chance of them being seen would be increased greatly. Not something they wanted to risk obviously.
At the end of the day no one can eliminate the risk only mitigate it. Get over it and stop letting every tin pot lunatic in the guise of a terrorist win.....:E:E

I suspect the ASU will "get over it" very quickly. One of the ways of doing that will be to part company with BHX and save themselves a huge amount of money in office rental, so much in fact that any new site would pay for itself very quickly. After all there is no "security" advantage in staying at the airport:ooh:

Hnh

That's not going to happen. They are having a new Hangar custom built for the Police Helicopter....This incident won't change that.

The hanger has not been built and it can happen....

btw spoke to a Ops guy last night and the 380 is a reality hoping for sept 9th it all depends on the new pier being opened on time which is likely, as Emirates have a big lounge in there.

No it won't happen. That's guaranteed the contracts have been signed, so we can put that to bed. Besides, where do you suggest they move to anyway? The new Hangar will be far better than anything anyone else can offer security wise.
Obviously you haven't seen the security set up at Halfpenny Green where the other Helicopter is!?

Emirates are keen for the A380 to come in. The airport have been working with them for several months on the project. It was hoped it could coincide with the official opening of the new pier or the new Emirates lounge.
As you say Sept 9th is looking good at the moment....Fingers crossed all!!

The prison block at the end of the pier will be coming down shortly. Things will certainly look different when that's gone.....:)

call 100
as you seem to "know" things why has the hanger taken so long to put up then?
If they went to Cov or Wolverhampton there is less security than there is at BHX which is laughable but true.
I think they would be better off keeping it BHX but moving it to the restricted area out of public view, maybe where it used to be 15 years ago. If they have signed contracts its a small matter of changing the location as its only paperwork at this time I have seen no ground work etc re the hanger??

call100 said...Ok lets look at this statement of wonderous and wise words....

Had they entered the restricted area... So say they did and as they crossed the main on a motorbike with no lights you are relying on the tower to see them? Ok going with you..say the tower did how long will it take for them to be stopped ...considering they covered the distance to the police chopper and back in a very very short time? Not long enough sadly as they could have taken out any of the airliners parked at the main terminal. Remember Call100 we are living in a real threat world and failure to see what could have happened and what may well happen (now they can see how easilly its done) is a dangerous thing.
But what security improvements have been made at BHX since?? none I guess... But your right Call100 we should get over it and not worry , lets all find a nice sand bank to pop our heads in...
This is a massive wake up call for Birmingham Airport, the Police and the privately owned security company...

Parked empty overnight? What with?
Incidentally if you want mass murder, wouldn't Tesco on a weekend lunchtime be better? Or do we strip search everyone going in there?

All aircraft are security checked at the start of each sector for anything that shouldn't be there. Hence even if someone did get in, there are procedures to check that nothing was sneaked on board untoward.

missing the point, just to take out an airliner empty or not would be a major embarassment, easilly done if they used the same tactic as they did on the police chopper.

volrider,

It's a HANGAR for heaven's sake. A hanger is what you find in your wardrobe (if you have one).

Thank you pointing out my slight error I do appreciate the input;)

There is no room in the restricted area.......They have no plans to change the plans. Stable door policy not being used this time....
The Hangar is being put up at the same time as the Ryan air Hangar. Planning permission does not come over night so your statement about 'its only paperwork' is rubbish. The WMP have not long decided that they wanted a hangar. Even when they get one the Helicopter will be parked outside for a majority of the time..
You really are a doom monger...If you are that concerned then I suggest you are working at the wrong place. Your big mistake is thinking that those who seek to destroy have not thought of these things before and no doubt will in the future.
You have obviously had your head in the sand for many years as you have only just realised the vulnerabilities of all airports. I don't think that it's in anyone's interest to list them all, but then you surely know them all?

I see I touched a nerve you obviously work at the airport and have a biased view of things, so I guess you calling me a doom monger just because I happen to ask the question that you have failed to answer, is the best I can expect re a reply on security:ugh:
Re hangar (spelt correctly this time:) ) I do not know how long the Police have been enquiring about one but I assume if ground work has not started then it can be changed, re the "secure" restricted area then fair enough I guess that either a: Security will have to be stepped up or b: The police will go elsewhere.
time will tell;)

Here here! tigerfish

Rider of vols....I'll go for answer b

anyhoo;

Call100
:eek::eek::eek::eek::ugh:

:eek::eek::eek::eek::ugh:
:eek::eek::eek::eek::ugh:

Sorry, couldn't find a 'wetting myself laughing at that absolutely ludicrous and ill informed or simply not thought about statement' smilie!



Skipness 1E
I tell you what would really really be better, an Airbus 380 full of pax on the replacement 777 flight and a new airport pier full of 'important people' on September 9th.

But as security at BHX is within guidelines, we won't be seeing any changes to security...will we!

Why is the security on the Elmdon side so poor even when the Saudis visit and leave their aircraft there unmanned overnight?

Let alone the odd VC-10/Tristar that has been left overnight again with no guard?

Doesn't happen? I assure you that it does.

Very good graphics little substance............Absolutely pointless.
If you have a different opinion fine. but at least learn how to put it across instead of the childish scribbles.
You usually do better in your posts.........
My information is that the hangar will go ahead. Nothing is being changed.....If you have different information then fine I will go back and check my source.
That's what the forum is for.
Yes Security should have been better for a Police Helicopter. However, the WMP have the ultimate say and they have been happy with the situation until now obviously......
Unless you have it guarded 24/7 then even two fences would not have stopped the event happening......It's not a BHX thing take a look at all the airports in the UK. All have chain link fences. As far as I am aware none are any more secure than BHX. Stansted and Aberdeen come to mind as fences breached.
As for the Elmdon site. Many of us have thought for a long time that it should all be in a restricted area. The fence would have still been the same fence the Security patrol would have been at the same interval.
The fact is that you cannot make any of the areas 100% secure. Take a tour around the airfield....(it can be arranged).....

Which is what SS and myself also think, that security is not good enough and what happened to the police helicopter could happen to something else God forbid.
I think that obviously it all needs a new review

Obviously security were taken up with the vital task of ensuring that the plastic bags the crews use are regulation size and type and that no one was foolish enough to consider going through the detector with both their belt AND watch on at the same time.

God forbid!

I know; why not build a 10ft high and 10ft thick concrete wall all around the perimeter, and rename the airport Stalag Elmdon?

[quote=volrider;4995771
I think that obviously it all needs a new review[/quote]

Is that BHX or Nationwide?

Nationwide

OK. I'll not disagree with you there....I don't think though that they can come up with anything 100% secure. Also, as always, the cost/risk calculation will dictate, therefore, not giving what you probably see as needed...

Avman - extremely good point. We live in a world of 20/20 hindsight, running parallel with the UK mantra "Security is Paramount".

We also allegedly live in a free country, and one of the pay-offs of living in such a "free" environment, is that security such as you have tongue in cheek suggested is just unacceptable. Anyway, if such a defence was errected then the eejits who attached the WMP helicopter would just have found any less well protected target to go after.

nothing can ever be 100% secure, however I think that we can improve the situation by increasing police numbers and having suitable airport security staff, which sadly BHX does not and I will wager a guess we are no different from other airports:(
Fencing will not stop but deter however beefing up the fences and maybe installing hardware that is available that will notify when an incursion takes place should be considered. I know it will cost but think of the cost should something happen and the passengers decide to fly from another airport where they rightly or wrongly consider is safer!

May Passenger figures
 

Over 5% down, reported on another forum as follows: -

Quote

"During May, Birmingham International Airport handled 831,738
travelers through its two terminals, including 611,780 scheduled
passengers and 219,958 charter passengers"

End of quote.

May 2008 Charter was 255k of which about 10-12k would have
been from the Air Malta based unit.

Schedules were down but only just and I believe that there were
just a few transits in 2009 compared to nearly 4000 last May.

I thought the loss would have been a bit lower but those charter
figures did the main damage.

Dubai showed another increase this time 9% although the average
pax per flight was well down on previous months as we are now
in the low season.

Pete

Thanks Call100,

Although the 'graphics' are simply the smilies provided by this site!

I do think they have a point because they illustrate how shockingly amazing it is that you think the hangar would be still going up regardless of recent events. Incase you haven't noticed there isn't a helicopter to go in it anymore. :ugh:
I take it your source hasn't backed up your previous statements.

Thanks for the offer of a tour around the airfield, however I don't need one arranged thanks. I have this very day walked round myself, (inside the fence).
Funny that I didn't see an airfield security vehicle/person, let alone be stopped by one! :eek:

p41
 

yes brumboy put it in a bin bag and we will put it in some where
as long as you dont come over
0523 covman

So you don't think that there will be a brand new shiny one being delivered? As I hear it, it will help another force out of a hole. So when it eventually arrives it will need a nice new hangar. So your assumption that because this one is destroyed no hangar will be built is a bit off beam. Apart from that no one has yet made claim to another airport more secure that they would move to!!:rolleyes:

How long did it take you to walk the complete fence line? Or, did you just walk a bit of it? If you walked the entire fence line then you will have seen the point I was making. Scary isn't it? I don't think we necessarily disagree on this just don't see eye to eye maybe on the solution??

Call100;

Source still no good then :ok:

I understand you can't make it 100% secure, but in my hours walkabout, 5% would have done!

Interestingly, I had the opportunity to walk the fence line, to the point at which the breach happened. The 1/8" plastic covered wire fence has received a replacement piece to fill the hole...it is held in place the thinnest of mild steel wire that HAS RUSTED IN 6 DAYS. So much so that it can be snapped off by hand.

I think this illustates BHX`s attitude towards its security. As I have said previously..total apathy. Whatever next? Next weeks break in by 10 year old weilding a pair of plastic scissors to cut the wire?:oh:

Hnh

HnH dont be worried Cal100 will protect you:ok:

Ah that will be the bit where BHX state they meet minimum requirements then....

I think this is about as serious as BHX and some (sorry one) short sighted persons on this thread can get, I refer back to head in sand .....
I wait with baited breath for words of wisdom to pour forward...;)

HnH,

That sounds unbelievable.
I suppose that now the Police Helicopter has been taken out of action, there isn't much for the police to directly protect over there, so guideline security will be enough.

Who will get the wagging fingers if one of the GA cabs are interfered with...Signature?

i really dont think the Police will continue their relationship with the airport. Its highly unlikely that any hagar will be built to existing plans...especially when the Airport has demonstrated its lack of care in their shoddy repair job:eek:

Hnh

HnH,

..

You should have learnt from the 'Rider of Vols' post earlier, that Avman is the leading advisor in the spelling of 'Hangar' and you WILL be advised of your mistake!

SS

Huntnhound, you can relax. "Hagar" is tolerated by Avman as this is an obvious typo. My intolerance to hanger (iso hangar) is based on my belief that people involved in aviation should know better. :)

Phew HnH, you were lucky there. :ok:

I just hope the Vikings are as forgiving :ooh:
Hägar the Horrible

I don't understand your problem. No one disagrees with the fact that you can add any amount of security. My point was that it wouldn't have made any difference. The cost/risk calculations will be done and the minimum required if any will be added. WMP, as they always could, can add any further security they deem fit. They haven't bothered in the past indicating they were happy with the present arrangement.
Still waiting for the location of an airfield the Police are moving to that is more secure than BHX.

Only time will tell if my source is any good. As you can neither prove it right or wrong until the new one turns up, or the WMP move to another location, it is pointless just saying it's no good. If it proves to be wrong then I'll hold my hands up. Hope you'll do the same?
Maybe you should have been doing your walk round before the incident and making recommendations. Did you walk the entire perimiter? I suspect not, there are some areas worse than the areas around Elmdon. Amazed you hadn't noticed before the incident that there was just a chain link fence in place as a deterrent!